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Dude, it's so funny. So when I was driving with John, you know big tall John to we were going to Patio

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and we were at a gas station rest stop

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and

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I was just standing outside

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And this little kid approaches me and the dad comes up. He's like hey can he wants to talk to you?

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Can he say hi to you and I'm like, okay, so like I squat down. I'm like hi

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And that's like say hi to say hi and the kids like hi. I'm like, okay cool

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And then he'd like take any like can we take a photo?

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I'm like sure so I just I'm like squatting behind this random kid in the parking lot and this tied dad takes a photo

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And like this is Patio. It's not like I'm there's a million foreigners

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And I don't know why at all, but I'm like, that's the weirdest thing

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I have no idea why that kid would do it and John's like, oh is it cuz fear of stairs?

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Yeah, whose face is not anything and

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Speaks in a language. I cannot speak and I'm like a little boy. No, of course not

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I don't know why he wanted to take a photo with me. It was weird

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ha

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The podcast where four friends from different backgrounds unlock the world of death cinema, I'm winning theIL see who's never been to India

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Hi, I'm Killy. I'm from India and I'm a film lover.

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Nicky, a semi-fan of pugilism.

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What? Pugilism. Pugilist. Fighting. Pugilism.

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I didn't know this word though.

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Yeah, I'm Adam. I'm the western film buff. The only boxing films I've seen is All of the Rockies.

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And I just learned about pugilism too. What is this?

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Pugilist. It's just another word for fighter.

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You said that so casually. I've also never heard of that.

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Is it from the 1970s? What language?

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Is this a word you studied for the SATs or something?

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Pugilist. Pugilist. P-U-G-I-L-I-S-T. Pugilist. Yeah.

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Well, if you're wondering who's the smartest one in the group, I guess you guys have your answers.

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Nicky is a reporter, so I won't give him this.

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Nicky is a journalist. So words are his life.

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Word snob over here. Okay, I mean, you're right, Nicky.

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I didn't doubt you. Someone who fights with his fist for sport.

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And it's not like... So is that where a pug fighter comes from?

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Or did I just make that up?

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What's a pug fighter? Maybe I made that up.

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I know fighter pugs, but... You know pugs who fight?

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The reason we're talking about fighting is because this week's episode is a Tamil language based film called Sarphata Parambarai.

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Did I get that right? Yes, Sarphata Parambarai.

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Which is... You can easily say that it's like an Indian version of Rocky, but to say that is a bit of an understatement because...

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Yeah, it's a really good film on its own, right? Yeah. It's beautiful.

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What did you learn, Adam?

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No, I did like it. When we were watching it, I questioned Chilly because I was like, this is a good movie.

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I don't know how much I can talk about this because it's just a good movie. It's a very well done film.

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I have also recently watched all the Rocky films in a row in 24 hours.

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So I had a good reference point of what American boxing movies look like because I just watched all of them.

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And yeah, it does wear its influences on its sleeve in a good way.

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Rocky has really good boxing fighting scenes because it's not like real boxing.

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Rocky does not box like a real fighter. We can talk about that later.

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But this copy is like the Rocky style boxing. So the boxing scenes were all great.

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The cinematography is great. Costumes were great. I love the aesthetics and the time period.

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But, Chilly, I mean, yes, I turned to you because you brought up why we were watching it and good points.

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Yeah. So recently we were discussing about like we have been discussed about caste system in India a few times.

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Right. So this film is one of the Dalit as a as a Asian films from India.

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And it's really well done. The director, Paranjit, he comes from a Dalit background.

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So I think before that, for the people who are listening and don't know much about the caste system in India or who Dalits are, maybe like we should initiate them.

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Yeah, please. What is this? So caste system like by by the book, it says like it's the it's a hierarchy in the society that kind of devise people

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based on their job. But it's actually like based on their birth, like which family were being born to.

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Like you cannot change your caste identity. So it puts it kind of comes from Varna system, according to the Hindu scriptures.

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Explain that to you, please. Yeah, the Varna system, Varna, the term means like color.

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But anyway, so the Varna system says that there are like four there are four hierarchy of people like at the top, there are Brahmins, like whose job is mostly education.

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And then all the intellectual works and worship, like being the priest, priest class. And then next comes Kshatriyas who are like the fighters, landlords and all this kind of work.

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And then comes Vaishyas who are like business people. Then comes Sudras, whose job is to basically serve the whole system, like manual labor.

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OK, so the caste system kind of is spawned out of that because like even though the according the scriptures or whatever that these these systems are based on what job you do.

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But you can understand, like when you have a hierarchy, you would you cannot like a son of a Brahmin cannot ever be a Shudra.

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They won't let it happen. The system won't let it happen. Can you go up? Is there any technically technically?

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I mean, it says that you can go up, but but it's in ancient history like it never sustained.

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Like it is closed and there have been scriptures of the scriptures, which says that you cannot learn.

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So what the caste system does is it also gate keeps knowledge from people like so Sudras being being the laborers, they have they have craft knowledge.

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Right. But they cannot they don't learn how to read and write. And so their their knowledge is limited to their clan and whoever they are passing down it to.

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So it cannot spread. They are not getting knowledge of the other scientific progress that's happening in or other knowledge based progress that's happening.

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So they cannot enhance their knowledge skill set as well. So it the caste system get kept everything like wealth, land, knowledge.

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What happens like if there is intermarriage? The intermarriage is not allowed.

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But I mean, but people still have sex and have like babies out of the cast.

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What happens with that? So they kind of become like outcast or yeah, they become outcast.

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Like you are not supposed to have. That's why the honor killing happens in India still, because like when someone marries someone below their caste level.

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So to keep the respect of their family, they kill their daughter and stuff like that. That happens.

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It's usually I think and how is the baby identified? Like what caste is the baby in their outcast?

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So that's that's where I'm coming. Dalits are not in this four system. Dalits are people who are outcast.

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So historically, they also come from like many, many scholars say that they are Buddhist.

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They were Buddhists before as well. That's why I think when Ambedkar we will tell him to Ambedkar because he's also referenced in this film a lot.

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When he was like fighting against the atrocities against Dalit and like creating like he was the chairperson of the Indian Constitution Drafting Committee when the Constitution and being written after India got independence.

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So he also put a few things in the Constitution that would look after the rights of the Dalits and to empower them.

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So that's why I think when he started he he started one Buddhist sect in India called Navayana Buddhism.

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It's mostly people call it Ambedkarites Buddhists.

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So that's what that's what one of his argument was also that like, yeah, these people are very Buddhist like we all were Buddhist at one point before the like the Brahminism took over gradually.

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So but you're saying that the caste system was tied to Hinduism.

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Yeah, casteism is tied from Hinduism.

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And that's why he introduced Buddhism.

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Yeah. So it was like a response and an alternative to Hinduism.

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Buddhism was a response at the core of its existence also.

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So Buddhist says that they have been existing for as as like forever.

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Right. But like when we learn history, we learn that also Buddha like Gotham's like his that he started the religion or he was the follower of the religion, whatever the thing be.

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But he was he's the most prominent person from the whole all the Buddhas.

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Right. Both of them is the most prominent person.

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So he also did that to fight against casteism to fight against the division.

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But there have been a lot of religious movement in India that spawn out of religion like this spawn out of the traditionalist religion, whatever is happening was happening.

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So all of them are kind of against to fight against casteism.

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Sikhism is like that.

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Ravi does is religion is like that.

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So, yeah, that's Winnie as explain your background a bit and your because being in Thailand, you can finish eating the peanuts.

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OK, I'm done. Thank you.

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What's your perspective?

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Yeah, no, I think caste is very much associated with Hinduism.

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I think a lot of people wrongly associated with India, but it's not right.

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It's very much.

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It's a hint. No, because it's not associated with Sikhism, for instance, another religion that's like born in India.

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It's not.

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No. And like Keeley said, one of the reasons Sikhism was born that we're taught growing up.

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One is to kind of like bridge that divide that was going on between Hinduism and Islam.

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Another one was to do away with the caste system and inequality.

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Right. So some of the things that underline Sikhism, for instance, is this concept of like longer.

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When you go to the Sikh temple, you get free food. Right.

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But then you all sit on the floor and eat next to each other.

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And this whole thing was just kind of like it doesn't matter if you're rich.

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It doesn't matter if you're poor.

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When you're in God's house, when you're in the temple, we're all equal.

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They're all going to sit next to each other on the floor.

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And I think a lot of that is also to do away with some of this caste and equal practices that prevailed during India that time.

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Yeah. Can you explain a bit more about Sikhism?

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Because I'm sure a lot of people, me included, like don't know everything about it.

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Sikhism? Yeah, sure.

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I mean, or just like in your background in it or growing up in it, you know.

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Yeah. I mean, it was a religion born in the 1500s. Our founder is Guru Nanak.

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It's a religion, but you can also see it as a philosophy. Right.

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Like Guru Nanak went and studied different religions and he kind of came up with it.

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And it's a lot of it's just associated with meditation.

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You just meditate to get yourself closer to God. Like just do Simran.

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That's like the concept of Sikhism that we don't have idol worshipping.

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If you read it, you'll see that there's elements of Islam in it. There's elements of Hinduism in it.

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We have 10 gurus in total. We don't like identify God. We just say there's one God.

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And there's these gurus who came to pass on these teachings.

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And they did away with some of the discriminatory practices that was happening in India that time, like Sati, for instance, where if a man dies,

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her husband dies, the woman will have to throw herself into the fire along with the husband. Right.

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Because you don't exist as a widow. So you just go and kill yourself and your husband.

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So like Sikhism did away. Like they were very much like, no, we don't do Sati.

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It's like the Sati system was very prevalent in the upper castes, actually.

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Like not the Savarnas we call the Savarnas are mostly like the first three castes that I said, Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Shudras.

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They are like called Savarna. So Dalits are basically untouchable. So since they don't belong in the Varna hierarchy, they don't belong in this four categories.

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They're outside of caste system. They took out the Dalit identity. Dalit literally means like stumped on.

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So they took up that identity as a as a chief identity, the name Dalit.

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And yeah, so we see a lot like I mean, the director being from the from from the community.

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I mean, his works speaks a lot about the directors of Dalit.

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So before we go there, Kili, why don't you give us some perspective of like what Dalits usually do, like what professions they're usually allowed to hold because this is quite an achievement.

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Yeah, so they mostly they mostly are doing the menial jobs like cleaning, sewage cleaning, all this kind of cleaning jobs.

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They does like skinning cows and funeral services, funeral services. No, that belongs to not Dalit there.

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I mean, some some places, but not everywhere.

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And I mean, they have their landless labor sometimes like landless farmers in this village side.

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They do this this this kind of work. So I mean, now, of course, they are the there's a positive discrimination against for them.

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The reservation system. Like India's affirmative action, if you want to call it.

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That's that's that's what like Amitkar's work. Yeah, that that kind of supports him to bring them into mainstream and like increase the representation, social representation of Dalits.

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It's a space for Dalits and tribals as well.

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But anyway, so their job is mostly menial jobs. And yeah.

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And back in time, you can't even like you couldn't even step on their shadow like one so far now, like they couldn't step on the Dalit can step on their shadow.

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You didn't want to step on their shadow shadow. And if you do, it's their fault to come in your way. So they will be punished.

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I think everyone's thinking it. But can like in this caste system, are you able, for example, to convert to see and then get out of that caste system?

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Yeah, that's that's the way to get rid of the castle until you're Hindu.

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Like you you cannot get rid of your caste.

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So that's why I said, like when people say we are caste less, it's a privilege of the upper castes.

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Because I mean, caste is not technically official, right?

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You cannot ask someone they are caste because it's illegal now.

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But people will know. And it's like it's a division divisive system that stayed for like 2000 years, 1000 years.

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So it's deep. It has a deep wound in the society.

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So that's what I'm saying. Like when the problem with Hindu religion is like it gives caste system a religious stamp on it.

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Like it's OK to divide people. So other religions says that everyone is equal in front of God, even though like in practice in the society, there would be division there in like economic division, social division.

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Like they always be there like six of their discriminate, like division among their they have hierarchy.

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Muslims in India have hierarchies like so people who track their lineage to like Middle East, they think they are above people who are natives to the land and converted to Islam later.

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But if you like convert to seek, are you just absolved from it? Yeah, you're absolved from the why doesn't everyone do it?

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So that's the that's the thing. That's the that's the that's the thing.

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I'm at the start about like the like the Buddhism that you become with this so that like you have an international support system with you.

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Yeah. And then also you are absolved of caste.

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Because but see still when you absolve your we are kind of already absolved our caste officially, quote unquote. Right. But our identity still carries like people would know where we come from by knowing where where our lineage is from, where our ancestors are from, what kind of job they would do.

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So these are the questions people get asked. So in Tamil Nadu where the film is from, there was the Ravirian identity movement. And then after that, like they kind of stop using their surname. Their surname is like their father's name.

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Right. So to get rid of the caste identity from your name, because the caste is mostly recognized by the surname.

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Right. So they did that. But still people will ask, oh, which village you are from. And then if they're from the city, oh, which area you are from, because that's how it's get get get right the location where you can rent house the local location.

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You do like it's it's like otherization of people is keeping people out. It's kind of like on a policy legal level there's not much discrimination left because the government has been proactively putting affirmative affirmative action policies and such but it's almost like people's

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mindsets.

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In India when you thought independent caste is illegal like you cannot ask anyone cast like if you know office set up like a official set up you ask them. It's like an offense.

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Yeah, but just to point out how serious of an issue this is and I told you guys this before but you know California had a law of an anti discriminatory cast law for Indians specifically yes because they were like hiring people in America in California.

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Yes, they're having hiring preferences based off caste, even though that's like already illegal in America, but they were still doing it so there was a bill specifically against that discrimination, and the bill failed because the companies really still want to discriminate

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against that. Yes. So they, so they, they vetoed it they didn't sign it. And, like, so this issue is still prevalent even in America it carries over it has really deep roots, one of the Amit goos main point was to educate the

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Dalits and then he's like get out get out go go go somewhere like that would be also like help your kings and your, your society that you come from the background you come from, or you can get out like educate education is the only way so.

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So when we did the positive affirmation actions. When they started their numbers started increasing in the education system in higher education they also started going out abroad right, but it took time out that the people Indians abroad are highly dominated

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by their numbers by upper caste like sovereigns right. So when the Dalits were going there they face discrimination by them, by the upper caste in in abroad. So, that's why that's why the, the, the bill was being fought for.

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And it also brings the caste system injustice to the inner to international audience level. If it's happening in USA so yeah that was a now big fight that they were putting up when he when he went to America.

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Did you experience any of this within the Indian community at all or within the sea community or anything. No, no, I mean again like, yeah I interacted with the American community but a lot of them are just very wealthy upper class people but again I'm

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not a Hindu so like cast was irrelevant to me growing up and also growing up in Thailand like it was never something I thought about or even understood fully, but of course I had, I had Indian friends who were like Cindy maybe but of Hindu religion and they would talk

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about it here and there like for them it was a factor when they were thinking about who to get married of course it has to be within the cast so I saw it from like that perspective but in my own life it's been quite irrelevant, unfortunately.

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Yeah, so, where, where I learned at school it's like most of my classmates who are close friends of mine most of them are seek. And to this day I mean like until now right I never thought about the caste system because they don't talk about that sort of thing

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that's just never. Yeah, a thing.

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But Nikki like in Thailand to like.

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Can you talk a bit and it's not necessarily specifically a caste system but just talk about the kind of hierarchy in Thailand.

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Well, I mean we all know that with labor workers, you know, skin color like Thai people with tan skin color is kind of seen like you know you're come from the working class.

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And that's why you see a lot of like beauty treatments and, you know, skin whitening cream, skin whitening cream advertisements because being white for Thai people and maybe Asians to an extent is seen as, you know, privilege like higher, we're in high soul as

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what we call it like high society.

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So there's that there's always that people tend to judge that sort of. It's a classist thing yes yeah, more or less.

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But the skin color things interesting because Europe and America had that to where wire skin was better of course and then it flipped to become tan skin, just because it went from like a gradient to an urban work environment.

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Like before, if you had dark skin and then you were like a laborer and so, which meant you're working outside and had, you know, the sun so being inside met you didn't work, but then when people move to like factories and the offices being pale meant that like you were

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working, which meant being inside and being outside met you had like the leisure time to just sit around and get the sun. So I do predict Asia will change eventually as urbanization takes over, you know, and more and more people get white because it happened in

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America. It used to be like people had the skin whitening stuff too but then became tan, they like being tan. When everyone is in the office and factories long enough.

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It'll switch at some point I find it really hard to maybe not in my life. Yeah, I don't think we'll live to see and even in India right this is quite prominent like fair and lovely is like the most facial wash brand is literally

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like there was one advertisement was literally where the girl changes to a blonde girl or something like that in India. Yeah.

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And then like when when she comes to the like immigration or something they don't recognize her from her passport and things like she's foreigner like there was some ad like that. So is there a relationship.

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Like between skin color are the most of them also darker skin tone. Yeah, they're most of them. Not necessarily all of them. So that's why like I've heard from my friends like who comes from like so official term is like schedule schedule cast right.

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Like the one who has a fair skin and then they get asked like oh you're a schedule cast like you don't look like one. I mean that kind of remarks you get if you like, like for that we were discussing in this film right like they also cast is someone is like

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who is like visually white fairer. Yeah, and then bigger body. I mean, so that's the thing like it kind of sticks out but also like if you think of it there are people like that and who get questioned because of the same reason like you don't look that

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is it rooted in colorism though this whole caste system because again upper caste tend to be fairer. So came from kind of not only colorism it kind of came from racism. Yeah, wait, what's the different.

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I mean, I think it's like the ethnicity versus sorry America does like, sorry, it's, that's what we say like if like if the American discrimination goes for 2000 of years, that they would be mixing and yeah, right.

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Yeah, yeah, it's just that it's just that thing going on like because there are people are coming from different regions to India and then based on job and, and yeah so.

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So, they are confined and self sufficient.

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So I so like it so what cast are you.

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So I'm from being all right so I'm technically from a business community but we don't fall under the vices we are shooters.

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Did it affect your life at all. No, no, no, because in Bengal like, even even even the show. So, there's the some states like Kerala Bengal and the states like they have their sugars are like, they have to only two cast basically like

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two burners like Bramings and sugars mostly and then but it's. So, I mean like, and they made a hierarchy amongst themselves so I have studied history where I read that people from our cast was not allowed in earlier schools for a bit, but when

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I grew up, it kind of became so the, the cast would not be mentioned or talked about on your face, it won't be asked around so I kind of almost grew up without knowing the whole cast dynamics and everything, but there was a tendency of looking down upon scheduled

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cast because oh they are taking our seats because they have a competition. Yeah, because, oh, they don't study as hard as us and score marks and then get into the same shit every fucking country.

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So this was a reality and if you go on Facebook is this the people still talk about it. Even, even, quote unquote leftists. So, so, yeah, so they don't understand this. This is a social representation thing going on.

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I mean, the reservation system itself can have a change or like some consideration but that that's upon discussion that's that doesn't mean like oh you can just hit on the whole system like the whole positive affirmation like that.

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Anyway, so, so how does it talk about the caste system and was the director's background have to do with it. Yeah, so this this film is just the assertive nature of the, the main character.

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And by by association his communities as a shun against them being looked down upon. So it's just, it's in the subtext of the film like the, where where where they have their houses like how they are being like when they're when the villains that the bad guys are talking

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down to them humiliating them what are they talking to them like at one point he says like, oh, I will forgive you when if you if you come to my house clean up my toilet. And when my cow dies.

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Move the carcass, then I will think if you could do a good job I think of forgiving you and that was a casteist slur. And then it's like he keeps on saying like a people like them shouldn't talk against us, people like them cannot take over the support the clan, like this.

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And you see the most of the people so when the coach Rangan, yeah, is like teaching boxing to the slum kids, people are like oh, you're like, I mean he's doing it like he's giving the power back to them but the upper class caste community doesn't like it as much.

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So yeah, that's that's that's how it kind of says and people keep on saying that, oh, you have to represent us to the hero all the time. And even at the final fight they give a like a blue robe, saying that this is for our community, like, so blue is the color of the little

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version of the bloods and verse Crips. Like bloods versus Crips. The two big gangs in the states. What an analogy.

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What's the other gang? What's the opposition? Maybe the brown man caste? No, it's a Dalit-Azarsian color is blue, it's a political color. So that's it. So what's the color of the most upper caste?

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The left wing. Orange is for him. Which one means you like golden showers? I think brown. Okay, all right. All right, Nikki, why don't you? What's the plot of the movie? Yeah, kick us off.

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No, it's good. It's relevant enough, I think. Yeah, so it's a it's a historical drama, sports drama set in the 1970s in North Chennai, which at the time is called Madras. Yeah, yeah, Madras. And basically, it's about so in this region, there's like a really

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rabid boxing scene, like everyone loves to watch boxing. And in this boxing ring, there's a it's like a battle between clans of people, like where they come from, it's separated by villages. Right? I'm getting this right, right? Yeah, something like that. I didn't really understand from the film that how the clans got divided because they say like they started as one clan and then they kind of divided.

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So it's different clans in the same cast? No, no, there's one clan has different cast. That's just a fight, like different, like the upper cast were trying to snatch. I'll get there in a bit. So basically, they, so there's the clan that the protagonist is a part of, it's called the Sarphata clan, which is, which used to be like renowned as the undefeatable clan.

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But in recent years, they've they've been going through a slump where they're all they're celebrated boxers are losing to this rival clan called the Iriyapa clan, which is they're the basically the antagonists of the movie. I wouldn't say that. I would say that.

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I would say that. But like, you know, they, you say the bad guy, the bad guy. No, I would like, yeah, that's, that's, that was one of my point in this film, like the bad guy opposition is not actually the villains of the film. They're just opposition, like they behave asshole, but not that asshole. The opposite, the villain for me was Taniga and his family.

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So the Sarphata clan is head by this coach called Coach Rangan. He is like a very well respected individual in the community. He's, he's what the protagonist, whose name is Kabilan. Kabilan is the, he's our protagonist.

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Basically, he's this labor worker who has been watching Rangan's clan fight throughout from since childhood and also because Kabilan's father is was also a boxer. Yeah, Rangan.

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The coach is like Yoda. He's like Yoda. And he's like famous at this point for training all the other boxers. He's very good at it. And this guy's like a young Luke. He's like a young Luke.

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But there's also another conflict in this movie where Kabilan is forbidden by his mom to join in these bouts, whether it's watching or training as a boxer, because his father was fought alongside Rangan as one of the greatest boxers in the region.

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But then due to some conflict with Taniga, Taniga's brother, which is again, he's the, they're from the same clan, but they're, they're, they're in an upper caste. Yeah. As from what I understood.

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And that, that family wanted Kabilan's father to, you know, be his henchman. And that didn't go through and Taniga's family basically had him killed. And that's where Kabilan's mother is worried about not, not wanting him to join boxing.

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The Iriyapa clan has this really famous celebrated boxer called Vimbuli. He's like this most, it's like mustache twirling villain. Yeah, he looks, yeah, literally like a mustache twirling villain.

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They have some great facial hair in this movie, by the way. Incredible mustaches and big beards and like 1970s like sideburns. It rules. Long curly hair. Very 70s, right?

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This one guy did look like a Wolverine.

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So yeah, Vimbuli challenges Rangan. Like, you know, Vimbuli is defeating boxer after boxer from this Zapata clan. And then, you know, like what Kili mentioned is like there, he was just ultimately taunting coach Rangan like, oh, who's the next boxer, you know, give me your next boxer.

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Unless you what we wipe the next one, you know, you should never box again. So the conflict is that coach Rangan has to figure out, you know, which, which boxer he should bring forth. And it's like an underdog story, right?

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Kabilan is being a fan. And then the movie shows us his journey as like, you know, the underdog. Like he just comes out of nowhere. He's a fan. And, you know, he trains hard.

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But later on, we also get to see his downfall, you know, when he gets too cocky. There is also a political subtext going on. So I think I want Kili to explain that it's in the 1970s.

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And coach Rangan is part of this ruling party at the time called the DMK.

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Yeah, their ruling party of Tamil Nadu. Yeah, like the state, but the center is under Indira Gandhi's Congress and Indira Gandhi announces an emergency period and she was like, like making political parties illegal left and right and then DMK becomes illegal at some point and the party workers go to jail like prominent party workers, leaders, everyone.

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So that's how like coach Rangan, his goals also goes to jail at some point. He goes to jail at some point. But then, you know, what I find fascinating about it is that these battles, these boxing bouts between clans, it's like more than just a, just a fighting match.

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It's a very, it's a, it's a, it's a sense of pride and nationalism, like with between their clans. It's like whoever is the winning clan takes superiority over the other clans.

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Yeah, just like honor system. But is this real? Like are they into boxing in India in some towns like this?

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I see. I don't know about. No. So this is a very, very local story, history from Chennai, like North Chennai. So this is not everywhere.

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But like when I started about like the background of the film, I kind of say like, yeah, this was a very like a well-known thing in boxing in North Chennai. But there are, but yeah, international level.

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And just again, just to interject with the Rocky again, cause I just watched it so recently. Basically, the plot is literally like Rocky one through five in one movie, right? Because like it is a long epic, you know, three and a half hour long movie.

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And so you see the rise and fall and all the struggle that literally is like, I'm not kidding, like Rocky one through five, like the ups and downs and getting a lot of money and then losing it all and being a drunk.

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And then getting like being all fat and then like losing all that fat again and doing like one last fight. It's just the entire Rocky series in one with a much better looking and more charming looking guy.

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And yeah, and the fight is better. Very handsome. I love it. Mr. Stalin is very handsome.

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What about that stash? No mustache, no curly hair. Yeah, it's curly hair. That's a different character. Now you know, Killy's man crush Monday.

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But yeah, it's an underdog story. We love underdog stories and I think the cast stuff makes it more, again, that's no service level. Cause like I did not understand that at all. Yeah, the cast stuff.

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If you understand it, I sure makes the movie a lot better too, because there's very few ways that you can fight against your status like that, except through symbolic victories.

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So that adds an extra layer to it. I think like boxing lends itself to like class struggle movies, because even the first Rocky, he is like an Italian working class man.

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And the guy he fights is Apollo Creed, who is like a famous black boxer, but who is partly famous because he's black and he wants to set up the fight.

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And Rocky one is Apollo Creed versus the Italian stallion. So it's like a class battle right there too. So that class stuff has always been embedded in the Rocky series.

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And I think any good boxing movie, you know, because all the focus is on one person and we get the cool montages and they get to like physically punch their adversaries in a ring.

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So it's just well suited for that type of story. What do you guys think about the mother's reaction towards him boxing? Right.

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Because there's one scene where he goes to watch a boxing match, I think. And then he comes back and she just like start screaming at him.

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The whole village comes out to watch and she's like beating him up. And you know, there's good reason for it. But also just to mention, I feel like three out of five Indian films we've watched includes a scene where the parents is just beating the shit out of the children.

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Is this accurate though? Is it accurate? What does your mom do when she catches you smoking? What happens?

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I mean, nothing to me. I don't know, Kili, if you've ever been beaten up. It seems to me, for what I gather, it's very normalized. It's like, oh, that woman is hitting her kid again.

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And Kabilan is like a big guy, right? Like grown ass man and his mom is just hitting him in front of the whole village.

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He was living under his mom's shadow. I mean, to be honest, I don't know. I don't think his mother's character was written like a likable person.

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I think like she's written like a pathetic person just like putting all her burden and baggage on her son.

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Sure. And also just constantly threatening suicide. Yeah. Another movie we saw with that either.

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That's another Indian mom cliche. Yeah, I've heard a lot about it. Yeah. And growing up like my mom would make stupid statements like, oh, well, you don't want to eat my food. Okay. You'll know what?

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That is so dramatic. That is such a dramatic thing to say. You know, growing up, we just like learned to let it fly over our heads.

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So it was not suicide. It was like I leave this house and leave you and go away. Yeah, you'll realize. You'll miss me when I'm gone kind of thing.

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We were talking to one of our friends. Her mom died recently. She's older. Her mom passed away when she was like 90. She was in her sleep.

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But she was staying with our friend's sister and she kept telling her mom like you better not die in this house because then you're going to haunt me forever.

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She's Thai. So she's like, if you die in this house, you're going to haunt this house. Don't be so mad.

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And so the daughter the whole time was like, don't die in this house. Do not die. And the mom ended up like falling asleep and dying in that house.

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And so now she's just all like mad and worried that her mom's going to haunt her the rest of her life. That is very tight.

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It's sounds like a film. Well, I was thinking you'd be a good sitcom like Ghost Mom.

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If you have a ghost mom constantly nagging you the whole time and cooking for you, you just come home. There's food ready.

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But you can't eat it because it's ghost food. So it's like haunting you. She's like, here's some awesome food. You can't touch it.

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And like any guy you bring over, she's like, really? And like just keeps judging you and stuff that no one can see.

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Ghost Mom is because she and so like she just like nagging you in your ear the whole time. Yeah, I thought that would be a sick. Yeah.

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But yeah, this mom character, she's like so against it.

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There's another aspect to it where she tries to get Capilano to marry so that in an effort to stop him from boxing. Yeah.

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And let's talk about his wife, though. Is her wife. She's beautiful.

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Character development just went from like she went through a whole journey where from kind and supportive to becoming a reflection of his mother.

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Yeah, because he was behaving like his father was turning into his father into a life of gangster and you know, crime.

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She those roles are really hard, like being like the wife to the alcoholic or the successful guy because you're always just come off as like nagging or there's not much story.

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You just have to kind of antagonize them a bit. But she does it so well. She has a lot of pathos.

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I think her acting was like incredible. Like she doesn't just come off as like fighting him for no reason. It comes from like her character, like her character is a stubborn person that's like a good emotional match for him and knows how to like talk to him and bully him.

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And so like she comes off as very strong and not just adversarial for the sake of the story. Like it comes from her character and she pulled it off really well.

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I like the scene like where like Coach Rangan calls Kabilan to his house before the match night and then she's like, no, you cannot leave now.

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And then he's like, but I have to go. Coach is calling me. She's like, yeah, no, first like serve me food, feed me and then go.

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Like she kept that hand on her hand on him that like, okay, no, I mean, you have to respect me. Like you cannot just walk over me just because you're a good boxer.

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Yeah. Yeah. And it was a respect thing. Like, look, like I'm trying to support you as best as I can. You need to support me.

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Like we're in this together and it was really beautiful. And like when they fight it's sad and when they're together, like they make a good couple when they're happy.

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It's like in between moments of like tension, they will have moments of like tenderness.

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And you see why they're together. Yeah. Because some movies you don't get it. You're like, what? They just fight every scene they're in and it just wears on you. But this you actually see the relationship develop.

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Yeah, it's quite complex. Yeah. Good. Good actor. The woman. Yeah.

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So later on in the movie, Kabilan is at his lowest point. Like he was just seeing the error of his ways. He's become a gangster due to this is where the cast system comes into play.

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Right. Because coach Rangan has a son. Yeah.

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Vetri. And then he was like, so his son is always trying to, you know, earn his dad's approval. He thought that he would be the next star boxer.

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And then Kabilan just came out of nowhere, stole his spotlight. And then you can kind of see why coach Rangan didn't want his son to be the next boxer because there's like this tough love.

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Like, I don't want you to go down. Yeah. And also, like, he was not a good boxer. He was just very aggressive. He didn't have enough technical skills. That's why he chooses Ramon.

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That guy to fight Vembuli over his son even like even before Kabilan came up. Like he never chose his son because he knew like he's not technically good. So yeah, coach Rangan goes to prison.

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You know, for being a DMK member and then like Vetri, you know, trying to find a way to earn respect. He becomes this liquid peddler and liquor peddler. Yeah.

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And like a thug basically. Like he's making moonshine, right? Yeah. That's what they're making. Yeah.

311
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And then he tricks Kabilan into working alongside him. But basically Kabilan was just basically a henchman. Yeah. Which is like this is where the cast system is working. Right.

312
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:19,500
It's just kind of in a way. But with their relation, I didn't see much cast system in play. But yeah. But I mean, it's the whole setup that like people who coming from slums like those those family when they become boxer, if they're not boxing, what would they do?

313
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:26,500
They would be a henchman kind of setup. Yeah. So that was what do you do if you're like when you're a boxer?

314
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:37,500
Like I dated a ballerina very briefly and like they live, they train their whole life at like 11 up until, you know, 18. And then she's in one show is like the snowflake and nutcracker.

315
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:43,500
And then that's it. Like her career is kind of over. And that's just very normal for everyone. Like you have to be a teacher or something.

316
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:53,500
She can't be a thug because she's like too frail as a ballerina. So like what do like boxers do? Like what the end of their career? Like you have to be a thug. Right.

317
00:46:53,500 --> 00:47:01,500
Yeah. I mean, if you don't have enough money. But it was like not end of his career. And also like coach was saying that I will give him job if he wants to come to a decent path.

318
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:10,500
Like I will make like make sure that he has a job. But like he already went down that path because we should talk about like why he went down that path.

319
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:22,500
Like the whole fight with Vembuli and yeah. All right. So it's just a lot of characters to keep track of. So, you know, OK, apart from the clan trying to gain regain their honor and glory,

320
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:31,500
the Zapata clan themselves, they're going through in fighting. Yes. There was an in there was in fighting because they're trying to decide who the next boxer was.

321
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:44,500
And coach Rangan. Initially, he picked a man named Raman. Raman is basically like the nephew of this this mobster called Taniga.

322
00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:54,500
And he's like this is Taniga used to have like a brother where they were like he was also a celebrated boxer and Taniga is proud of that that Raman's get chosen.

323
00:47:54,500 --> 00:48:05,500
But then Raman is not the boxer, as we can see from the training that he was doing. Coach Rangan knows that, you know, they're like he goes against coach Rangan's teachings.

324
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:16,500
And that's where Kabilan comes in. Well, while that was happening, we also have Betri, who's coach Rangan's son, as we've talked about, where, you know, he just wanted to be be the next boxer.

325
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:25,500
But he can't live up to what he wants to do to to earn his father's approval. There's a lot of conflict going on.

326
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:42,500
And so when Kabilan gets chosen to be the the star boxer, he after a fight with Raman, like a quick bout with Raman to show that, you know, to make sure to give confidence for coach Rangan to say, hey, you know, Kabilan is the next boxer.

327
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:53,500
They made a deal to fight the dancing Rose. Rose is amazing. He's like everyone's favorite character in the film, I guess. Rose was the dancing boxer.

328
00:48:53,500 --> 00:49:05,500
I mean, he's actually based off like one boxer called Naseem Hamid, who is to like do that kind of showmanship during boxing, like dancing.

329
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:15,500
He looks like he's ready to rumble boxing for the Dreamcast. You know, he looked with the guy with the mustache. Oh, Big Wheelie Johnson. He doesn't need dancing.

330
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:26,500
I'm trying to think of a WWE character who has similar moves to Rose, but I couldn't think of any. And like, it's a very unique style of fighting. We know one in real life.

331
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:35,500
Benji is a real life version of that. Yeah.

332
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:45,500
Yeah, he's like Big Wheelie Johnson or whatever. And he has like the best mustache ever. He looks like some 1920s dandy and he's dancing around. He's like, or like Eddie break dancing.

333
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:49,500
Yeah, like Eddie and Tekken kind of like that kind of dancing moves.

334
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:59,500
This is dancer boxer. Yeah. So very cool. Yeah, it was a very good scene. Like the whole choreography was just incredible. Right.

335
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:08,500
And it was just that that was the defining moment that, you know, it's like any other underdog story. Kabilan trumps over Rose. Kabilan gets cocky.

336
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:21,500
Now, Vembooli is threatened by this new rookie. And we're led to this match where Kabilan was winning Vembooli.

337
00:50:21,500 --> 00:50:31,500
Like he was about to win against Vembooli. But then as we've talked about, Raman's uncle, Taniga, who's a mobster, he sabotaged that match.

338
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:40,500
He called his henchmen. They throw chairs at Kabilan right before he's about to deliver the finishing blow. And then a riot breaks out.

339
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:52,500
The police comes in and arrest coach Rangan. There's a lot happening in that scene. There's a lot of chaos. And it ends with the people like it's like a scene of shame.

340
00:50:52,500 --> 00:51:03,500
Right. They strip. They strip Kabilan naked on the ring as a sign of humiliation. And that's when we start. That's where it blurred in the movie.

341
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:11,500
They blurred it in like a Japanese porno. Yeah, it was kind of weird. As opposed to what? Like showing it?

342
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:19,500
Why wouldn't you? Or just frame it. So I don't see it. It'd be funny if they had warnings like they do when they smoke cigarettes.

343
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:27,500
But every time you flash the dick, it's like a warning like not before marriage. I don't think nudity to that degree is present in any Indian movie.

344
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:39,500
It's a certification issue. Also, the actors willing to be just just remember when PK when Amir Khan got naked, we couldn't even see they didn't even show a scene where you see his buttocks.

345
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:49,500
Yeah, it's just like the camera is always just but if I was this actor, I would have demanded like a huge pixelated area just for people's imagination.

346
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:59,500
That would be my contract. Yeah, that was pixels bigger. It takes up like half the screen.

347
00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:10,500
Yeah. And yeah, anyway, so that was like the start of the downfall for Kabilan. And then, you know, Vetri being the resentful son.

348
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:15,500
This is the second time someone's been stripped naked in embarrassment form. I just realized. I remember Joanne.

349
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:22,500
They like when they embarrassed that dude, they stripped the dude naked too. That's right. Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing in India.

350
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:31,500
I guess. Yeah. It's the most embarrassing thing ever. Yeah. Conservative culture. Yeah. Right. Be ashamed of your body. The thing you're born with.

351
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:39,500
Dignity. It's like your dignity goes out when dignity goes up. Yeah. Dignity.

352
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:52,500
So, yeah, like Kabilan goes on a path for revenge with Vetri and in an unbelievable move like Kabilan just uses a machete to cut Daniga's face in half.

353
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:59,500
And it was just like. Wait, and wasn't this over though? And again, this is a repeat of another movie. This was over rabbit meat.

354
00:52:59,500 --> 00:53:11,500
So then remember another movie you saw. Yeah. Amgamali Diaries. They had the huge pivotal fight scene over a rabbit dish. And here we are again.

355
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:19,500
That's actually very interesting because this is a second South Indian film that we're watching. Kili, is this normal for South Indian films? Like, is there an obsession about rabbit meat?

356
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:30,500
Is it just a question? But it's two films that are very random. It's always a huge issue. Two different states. That was like Kerala Malayalam and this is Tamil films.

357
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:38,500
But it's like two different states. But why do rabbit dishes make people violent like that? But there are similar themes even in addition to the rabbit meat.

358
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:51,500
The rabbit meat is special. It's a special meat. It's not easy to get. It's not clearly that common, but it's very tasty and it's kind of like a delicacy for them.

359
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:59,500
So, yeah. So I mean, entire generations fight over these dishes and like it causes huge rifts in the community.

360
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:13,500
But yeah, Kabilan cuts Thaniaga's face. That's amazing. That's the rabbit dish. Because of the rabbit dish. And then like that is his descent into being a washed out boxer.

361
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:31,500
Because also because he becomes wanted, right? He goes to jail. So he comes out of the jail because he gets bailed and then like start to set up a truce with Thaniaga. But that's when Thaniaga does that casteist thing.

362
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:46,500
That we're like, oh, you guys are talking against me. Like a few days back, like a few years back, you have to beg food to eat. Now you're like showing us this attitude and stuff.

363
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:52,500
And then he's like, okay, I'll forgive you if you come clean my toilet and move my cow's dead body and stuff like that.

364
00:54:52,500 --> 00:55:07,500
You see that? That was the thing. For non-Indian watchers, like you might have just thought that it was like a taunt or something. But there's a lot of context behind that where he's just he's like above them.

365
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:20,500
Yeah, that's what it's like. That's why you also walk him up that much. Like he starts beating again. Like that's like the instigation. That's the end war kind of like if you call like a hard like end war to a black person.

366
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:27,500
And then they will get worked up. So it's kind of that like you're doing a casteist slur.

367
00:55:27,500 --> 00:55:30,500
Is the wife pregnant at the time or does she have the baby? I forget.

368
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:34,500
Yeah, yeah, he's a wife pregnant at this time when he came back from the jail.

369
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:35,500
So no baby yet.

370
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:37,500
No baby yet. But yeah.

371
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:48,500
But you get this like really insane montage of Kabilan's downfall, which it was like this was the part where it made me go, this movie is really something else.

372
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:58,500
Because in just like a man, I think it was just like, I don't I don't know. It was it felt it felt like 15 minutes in just like in just 15 minutes or so.

373
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:02,500
It was like you see this man like in the beginning, you thought you were rooting for him.

374
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:13,500
But now he's this asshole drunk asshole, like washed up, like disappointing his family. His mom hits his wife.

375
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:20,500
Yeah, comes home drunk all the time, falls asleep in the alleys. He's fat. Yeah.

376
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:26,500
The biggest crime of all losing his six pack. He's incredibly earned six pack.

377
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:28,500
I want to know if like, did he really like gain weight and then?

378
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:34,500
No, he didn't. He stuffed a pillow in his shirt. But never see his fat skin. It's only he always has a tank top over it.

379
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:37,500
He's not that ripped. I mean, he was not.

380
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:39,500
You're not that ripped, Kailash. What the fuck?

381
00:56:39,500 --> 00:56:42,500
He was ripped, man. Like his arm, his forearm.

382
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:47,500
No, no, no. In that scene, he was not that level of ripped. Like what?

383
00:56:47,500 --> 00:56:56,500
I mean, I studied, I read behind the scene like anecdotes like page three kind of story where he's like he did a bit of change.

384
00:56:56,500 --> 00:57:01,500
Like he shot, I mean, they shot, I guess, this scene. He was slightly less ripped. He was like not that ripped.

385
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:07,500
And then he got ripped. But he still wasn't fat. He had a white shirt. He had a white shirt over it. He had a pillow stuffed.

386
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:13,500
And the pillow kept popping out and he kept and like you didn't see it, but it kept like dropping out of frame.

387
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:18,500
So like the pillow would just fall and then like you'd see like your shirt kind of. Yeah.

388
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:24,500
And like so they had to have me like deal with that pillow special effect. And that was kind of noticeable. I wish they did better at that.

389
00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:33,500
Yeah. But like I think the whole that whole downfall, like it wouldn't actually thought that he it was like a lesson in like,

390
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:39,500
you know, being punished for your misdeeds. Like your says your father. Yeah. You become your father.

391
00:57:39,500 --> 00:57:48,500
I thought it was going to be a tragic story. But then suddenly, like, I don't know. I found it a little too like it went up from.

392
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:57,500
It was a quick 180 degree turn when he when Kabilan realizes the error of his ways. And then like he was telling to his mom like, oh, now I see.

393
00:57:57,500 --> 00:58:03,500
So what made him realize the error of his ways? Was there like a significant event or is it because she hasn't seen it?

394
00:58:03,500 --> 00:58:12,500
So I'm also going to pretend to be the audience. But yeah, so they ask you for a friend. What happened in this movie?

395
00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:18,500
I blew the cover. It was a good cover. Oh, that's the same question. But I made it halfway through the film.

396
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:27,500
It was like coming back, being drunk and there is like a he was assassination attack on him.

397
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:31,500
I can call in the henchmen with machetes at any given time.

398
00:58:31,500 --> 00:58:39,500
And once and one point when Kabilan was at his lowest point, he was just stumbling home drunk, getting like just passed out on his bench.

399
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:49,500
And his wife is angry, carrying their baby, looking for him. And she found him there lying on his ass and then like tries to revive him.

400
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:56,500
But then when that was happening, like tiny guy calls like a lot. There was men with machetes and they were about to assassinate him.

401
00:58:56,500 --> 00:59:02,500
And, you know, the village, like some bystanders came to save save save them.

402
00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:09,500
And the woman was fighting for him for a lot of money at the first like she was like she took up some stick or something and then like trying to.

403
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:14,500
But I found it fascinating. Like they weren't they weren't after her, you know, like they could kill her at any moment.

404
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:18,500
But they were just after him, which I thought it was like very respectful, very respectful.

405
00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:20,500
The nicest henchmen ever. Nice henchmen ever.

406
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,500
They're like, no, no, no. She's too strong character.

407
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:35,500
And then like you get like this scene where they ward off the assassination attempt, but then Kabilan's wife just breaks down and said, like, you know, you shouldn't even be alive anymore.

408
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:40,500
She's like she was just cursing that. Why are they why are we saving this this guy?

409
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:45,500
You know, he's caused so much pain for his family and the baby is like crying nonstop.

410
00:59:45,500 --> 00:59:54,500
And I think that's when they took Kabilan home. And then that's the moment where he realizes that, you know, he's just putting everyone in danger.

411
00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:56,500
He has a flashback. He has a flash. It was a flashback.

412
00:59:56,500 --> 01:00:01,500
I felt like it was for the audience where it was just to show how his father was killed.

413
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:07,500
It was like a dream. But just to show him like, oh, I'm doing what my dad did to me, to my family.

414
01:00:07,500 --> 01:00:12,500
Oh, holy crap. I became everything. I was afraid to be coming.

415
01:00:12,500 --> 01:00:15,500
I need to turn my life around. And it is that easy, folks.

416
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:21,500
If you just change your mind one night when you're drunk, you could fix everything and everyone will take you back.

417
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:26,500
So I was going to get to the point where like he did like he really like cried his heart out.

418
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:30,500
Right. We get like a quick moment where he realizes the error of his ways and then he tries to go back.

419
01:00:30,500 --> 01:00:34,500
Coach Rangan didn't want to accept him because he's out of shape.

420
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:37,500
And yeah, I mean, when is this fight coming up? Like within a couple of months, right?

421
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:39,500
In a couple of years now.

422
01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:44,500
But not yet. The fight is not coming up. He's just getting back into the boxing community.

423
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:51,500
Like he's going to watch match where Wembley, like the whole whole India clan mocks the mocks Rangan.

424
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:55,500
And then he shouts back like, hey, I defeated you.

425
01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:56,500
Yeah. The audience.

426
01:00:56,500 --> 01:01:02,500
And then he they go in a fight like a verbal fight that, oh, no, you didn't fight like defeat me.

427
01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:05,500
It was an undecided match.

428
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:10,500
And then, yeah, that's when like he they challenge each other for another fight.

429
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:14,500
But you see, I think the whole movie takes place over the course of many months.

430
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:23,500
Like, you don't know that. But like it's just you can just tell like these things like the whole all these sequence of events take place over like a couple of years.

431
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:26,500
Like, I don't think it was like within like back to back.

432
01:01:26,500 --> 01:01:34,500
You know, but like it's just something that we can just tell from the like just from the political going on in the movie.

433
01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:39,500
So in the end, he breaks the family, the generational curse, and then he has a final match with this guy.

434
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:42,500
How does the final match go? I was just going to get it.

435
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:50,500
How does it go? Obviously, he wins. I'm asking as the audience. What happens?

436
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:54,500
I'm going to get there in a bit. But like, first, I need to talk about this specific point.

437
01:01:54,500 --> 01:01:58,500
Like he he tries to train back. Right. But then he was so out of shape.

438
01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:01,500
And then he comes back to his family. His mom wouldn't talk to him.

439
01:02:01,500 --> 01:02:04,500
And this scene that this is the scene that I want to talk about that threw me off.

440
01:02:04,500 --> 01:02:13,500
It's like for the whole the entire duration of the movie, his mom was against against him box the Kabila and boxing.

441
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:19,500
But then Kabila was crying his heart out. And he said like, oh, he has this moment like cathartic moment.

442
01:02:19,500 --> 01:02:22,500
Like, I realize now that I'm failing in life or whatever.

443
01:02:22,500 --> 01:02:28,500
And then like his mom does like a 180 degree turn where she's like, all right, you know what?

444
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:33,500
You need boxing. We need we need to train you. And I just felt like.

445
01:02:33,500 --> 01:02:37,500
Well, is it because she saw what he would be like without boxing, which is much worse?

446
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:40,500
So it was just kind of like, just go back to boxing.

447
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:45,500
I'm glad you picked up on that in the movie, Winnie.

448
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:50,500
Also, also, also, that's how like it's also a tale tale of Indian parents.

449
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:53,500
Like they realize they were wrong, but they wouldn't accept it.

450
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:56,500
They will just do a 180 right there.

451
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:58,500
And they're like, no, you should do that.

452
01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:03,500
Yeah, because it doesn't matter like what I was saying for the last whole life.

453
01:03:03,500 --> 01:03:08,500
So the moral of the story is like, just disappoint them so that they come around eventually.

454
01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:13,500
It's like when you are like protecting your sibling and like only I can make fun of my sibling.

455
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:15,500
You know what I mean? Like, how dare you? Right.

456
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:18,500
Someone's insulting him and the mom's like, no, fuck you.

457
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:21,500
Only I can curse my son. Son, go beat him up.

458
01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:25,500
Like, you know, you ruined your name. Who are they to stop you from boxing?

459
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:31,500
Yeah. And then he goes to then he goes to this training thing, which I want to bring up.

460
01:03:31,500 --> 01:03:38,500
Yes, I want to talk about because in Rocky four, when he's in Russia in the snow,

461
01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:42,500
there's a training montage and one of the things he has to do is catch chickens.

462
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:45,500
Wait, was that Rocky? No, that's was that too.

463
01:03:45,500 --> 01:03:48,500
Sorry. Thank you. They are. They're all blur to me.

464
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:54,500
He has to catch chickens in Rocky two with Mickey, his Jewish coach with an Irish name.

465
01:03:54,500 --> 01:03:57,500
And anyway, they get to catch chickens. Really? That's weird.

466
01:03:57,500 --> 01:04:01,500
But in this movie, they're on the beach and he has to catch crabs. Yes.

467
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:04,500
And that's this animal for this training montage.

468
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:07,500
And so they'll and he tried to catch crabs.

469
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:11,500
And at the end of the montage, he's like, Mr. Crab Man is great.

470
01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:16,500
I love the montage scene because like like boxing montage, like fight film,

471
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:21,500
fighting film montage has been done to death. But I mean, they still kept it in.

472
01:04:21,500 --> 01:04:26,500
I just find it funny that they brought up there's a hidden Yoda by the beach,

473
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:31,500
by the sea. So many boxers there in this like where he would come.

474
01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:34,500
I just know he was an old coach.

475
01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:38,500
He was an old coach who is like a teacher now because like we we we had I thought

476
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,500
it was established that coach Rangan was like the coach for them.

477
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:45,500
No, no. Boss level, boss level coach.

478
01:04:45,500 --> 01:04:51,500
I mean, to be honest, he was kind of showed that he's not as good as coach Rangan,

479
01:04:51,500 --> 01:04:57,500
by the way, because he keeps on losing the bout at the end until coach Rangan comes

480
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:00,500
and like tells him like, you know, give him a support.

481
01:05:00,500 --> 01:05:03,500
Also, maybe a moral support thing. Yeah.

482
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:08,500
But yeah, he goes into Goku mode on the beach and Rocky too had a beach training

483
01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:11,500
montage as well. So, wow. Yeah.

484
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:13,500
So we need to answer your question, right?

485
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:18,500
He he won the match against Vembuli and thanked not didn't thank coach Rangan.

486
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,500
He thanked this beach beachside coach.

487
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:26,500
I'm kidding. That never happened.

488
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:29,500
Yeah. Beachside coach.

489
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:36,500
So also like Taniga asks Vembuli to like do that same thing again,

490
01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:44,500
where like he gives a signal about when he be about to go down and then he will beat him up.

491
01:05:44,500 --> 01:05:51,500
And this time, Rose, Rose, the man like Rose, Brick keeps Vembuli on check.

492
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:54,500
He's like, you are a disappointment to the clan.

493
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:58,500
Rose says that as a fighter, as a sportsman, you are not a sportsman.

494
01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:00,500
You are doing this bullshit.

495
01:06:00,500 --> 01:06:05,500
And I like Rose's character because when Vembuli did that in the first fight,

496
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:11,500
when Taniga broke up the fight and like created the scene, Rose gets like really offended.

497
01:06:11,500 --> 01:06:14,500
And like when they did that, did that.

498
01:06:14,500 --> 01:06:18,500
Rosa becomes estranged with Vembuli because he doesn't respect Vembuli anymore.

499
01:06:18,500 --> 01:06:20,500
So that's fascinating because, yeah.

500
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:26,500
So what really happens that Vembuli tried to signal to Taniga, right?

501
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:28,500
In the first fight. Yeah, he did that. He did that.

502
01:06:28,500 --> 01:06:32,500
I believe. But like it's just that Rose doesn't like that kind of dirty tactics.

503
01:06:32,500 --> 01:06:38,500
And which is what I like about this whole movie is that there's like this whole like boxing between clans.

504
01:06:38,500 --> 01:06:40,500
It's like a sense of honor, sense of pride.

505
01:06:40,500 --> 01:06:44,500
We follow the warrior's code kind of deal, which is like.

506
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:51,500
And also at the end, like I when they have a terrific fight, like they were like on the verge of knocking each other out.

507
01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:55,500
And then somehow, like, of course, not somehow because he's the hero.

508
01:06:55,500 --> 01:07:03,500
Kabilan wins and then like Rose Kamal comes up on the stage and he really hugs Vembuli and says like, oh, I'm proud of you.

509
01:07:03,500 --> 01:07:07,500
The sportsmanship you showed today is like amazing. You didn't lose.

510
01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:10,500
This is what I like about Indian movies in general.

511
01:07:10,500 --> 01:07:13,500
It's like once the conflict is over, the movie just ends.

512
01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:17,500
Yeah, there is no like two months later, they're celebrating.

513
01:07:17,500 --> 01:07:19,500
It's just like you would defeat the villain. That's it.

514
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:24,500
So in the end of Rocky, Rocky ends in the first one where just boom, he ends.

515
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:28,500
They're like, you did it. You didn't win, but you like lasted credits.

516
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:31,500
Crudicat, too, as well.

517
01:07:31,500 --> 01:07:37,500
Because the main villain before that, the tiny guys sent his henchmen again after him.

518
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:43,500
And then maybe like victory redeems himself a little bit by fighting them.

519
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:45,500
Actually, I have a question. So right, right.

520
01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:50,500
When after he was done with the beach side training after that beach montage,

521
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:57,500
Kabila was going on his way to the match to fight the Vembuli, but then suddenly he gets ambushed again by Tanika.

522
01:07:57,500 --> 01:08:01,500
And then Betray has this moment of redemption where he comes saves his life.

523
01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:06,500
And then he's like carrying a knife in hand and he was like, you go on ahead, go on the match.

524
01:08:06,500 --> 01:08:09,500
And then we never really know what happened in that fight.

525
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:13,500
And then like when we get when we get to the scene where he's fighting the Vembuli,

526
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:17,500
there's a moment where during mid match, Betray just comes in.

527
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:20,500
So that means like he killed Tanika or something.

528
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:23,500
Yeah, they killed Tanika, I guess. He killed him.

529
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:28,500
He got done with them. Like he's like, OK, I will redeem myself. I'll beat their ass.

530
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:34,500
So in the end, do these two clans kind of merge back together and become one or they remain two separate clans?

531
01:08:34,500 --> 01:08:35,500
They remain separate clans.

532
01:08:35,500 --> 01:08:37,500
But they're on good terms now.

533
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:41,500
The film never says that this clan rivalry is a toxic thing.

534
01:08:41,500 --> 01:08:43,500
The main villain, that's what I'm saying.

535
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:50,500
Even though they're shown as that Ibiapa clan as like a cocky, toxic clan who had cheated,

536
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:56,500
who does like who does more instigation, like bad mouth, foul mouth thing and all these things.

537
01:08:56,500 --> 01:09:00,500
But still they are two separate clans just fighting in the ring.

538
01:09:00,500 --> 01:09:12,500
The main villain is Tanika to take up, like to like put them down, put Kabilan down and then like end his career.

539
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:15,500
Like disrupt his match, not let them shine.

540
01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:25,500
Yeah, Tanika was humiliated by Kabilan's victory that he got on a spaceship and died on his on the way to his home planet.

541
01:09:25,500 --> 01:09:27,500
I thought you were.

542
01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:31,500
I'm just kidding. I'm just messing with you.

543
01:09:31,500 --> 01:09:33,500
I figured.

544
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:39,500
So what is the moral of the story then, the moral of this movie? Your takeaways?

545
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:41,500
Is there one? Like good sportsmanship?

546
01:09:41,500 --> 01:09:43,500
You can ruin your life. Don't worry.

547
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:45,500
Your family is waiting for you to get better.

548
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:50,500
And as soon as you do, they'll be right there to resume their position and keep on supporting you.

549
01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:55,500
So go ahead. Burn all those bridges and they'll just be waiting for you.

550
01:09:55,500 --> 01:10:00,500
I'm not surprised that this is the moral of the story for Adam, who comes from like a Western individualist culture.

551
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:06,500
For most of us, it's like an Asian culture. Yeah, you can fuck up a lot, but your family will usually see you.

552
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:11,500
See, they'll try to take you back. And I know that does not exist in America. No, you're right. That's so funny.

553
01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:16,500
That that concept is so foreign to me that I don't. Yeah, I think that is weird.

554
01:10:16,500 --> 01:10:21,500
But you're right. I think that is a given shoot a conditional love.

555
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:26,500
Not something I'm familiar with. Not only until you're 18 and you get kicked out and you're on your own.

556
01:10:26,500 --> 01:10:28,500
Which is what happened.

557
01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:37,500
OK, yeah, what is the moral then, Julie? No, no, if the man repent is meant to be forgiven.

558
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:44,500
The daddy daddy says that Jesus said that daddy, the character, we didn't even mention daddy.

559
01:10:44,500 --> 01:10:49,500
Daddy's awesome. And daddy is like, oh, I'm sorry. You said daddy than Jesus.

560
01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:54,500
Is this like a daddy? He's a Christian guy. He lives in the slum. Anglo Indian.

561
01:10:54,500 --> 01:11:00,500
He speaks a lot of English. Yeah, he's the Christian guy who lives in the slum.

562
01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:03,500
So repent and you shall be forgiven. That sounds like Christianity.

563
01:11:03,500 --> 01:11:10,500
Yeah, he says that even Jesus says, like, he at one point, I think he says about Kabila and like when he's like repenting or like something like that.

564
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:13,500
Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no. Sorry, victory when victory.

565
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:20,500
So at one point like victory also orchestrated an attack on Kabila and before the Rose match.

566
01:11:20,500 --> 01:11:28,500
Yeah. So so coach Rangan is like hitting me with his shoes or something like that.

567
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:31,500
Yeah. And the battery is like crying profusely.

568
01:11:31,500 --> 01:11:37,500
And then when daddy comes and says like, man, we should forgive a man who is repenting.

569
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:45,500
OK, all right. Yeah. I mean, I think it is about like you have the possibility to change if you focus on it.

570
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:51,500
Nikki, any closing thoughts? Yeah, I just felt like it was.

571
01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:57,500
Family, it's all about family. Yeah, it's like Fast and Furious. Yeah, they'll be there.

572
01:11:57,500 --> 01:12:01,500
No, no, no, that's not that's not how we go.

573
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:06,500
We're doing Vin Diesel just now. I wanted to, but I couldn't.

574
01:12:06,500 --> 01:12:11,500
All right, Kelly, I think it's time to put on the gloves and do the joke you want to do for the audio format we have.

575
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:16,500
Kelly walked in with some boxing gloves. I brought boxing gloves for this podcast.

576
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:20,500
So I'm like putting it up, putting them on my hand.

577
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:27,500
You're doing ASMR or what? Yep. No, I'm so so that people can enjoy seeing us hearing me putting them on.

578
01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:32,500
Seeing how? I know this is very enjoyable for everyone involved.

579
01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:37,500
Wow. All right. Kelly's putting on his gloves. We hope there's a demonstration after this.

580
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:41,500
You're putting it on for a reason, right? They're filled with glass shards.

581
01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:46,500
Oh, to let people hear the bell curl. When they were training, like how many people were just circling them,

582
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:51,500
like looking at them, just training with the spotlight on them. Is that what you want, Kelly?

583
01:12:51,500 --> 01:12:56,500
There's just blood coming out of the gloves. All right, guys, quiet for the ASMR. Go, Kelly, go.

584
01:12:56,500 --> 01:12:59,500
No, don't fight over it.

585
01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:01,500
I'm the last. No, I do.

586
01:13:01,500 --> 01:13:06,500
Wait, was that a joke? I thought you were going to make some noises.

587
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:09,500
I punched it. What other noise could that make?

588
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:12,500
That sounded like clapping cheeks.

589
01:13:12,500 --> 01:13:15,500
All right, bye.

590
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:20,500
What the hell is that?

591
01:13:20,500 --> 01:13:23,500
Anti-climatic ending.

592
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:36,500
Bye bye. Thank you.