hmm
I can lead, I can lead
hmm
I'm sorry, I can't stop
All I think is like a haunted castle
hmm
I think we nailed it
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Welcome to Fear of Stairs, Desi Films Decoded. The podcast where four friends from different backgrounds unlock the world of Desi cinema. I'm Winnie, the Desi who's never been to India.
Hi, I'm Kili. I'm the film enthusiast from India.
I'm Nicky, the culture kid from Thailand.
I'm Adam, the western film buff. And this week I learned that the perfect child is the one that sings a song in front of all his classmates and makes white people cry and stand up and if you can do that you'll make any Indian parent proud.
So Kili, what did we watch today? What did we choose?
So today we are, we watched Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gam. It's a Karan Johar film by his Dharma Production.
It's one of those Bollywood blockbusters that got very popular amongst Indians and also Indians who were living abroad.
It was very much focused on Indian diaspora and then it's also a cultural phenomena because it kind of changed or I mean it kind of solidified the direction of certain Bollywood blockbusters going to go from then on.
And yeah, so it's the most Bollywood Bollywood film like one of the most Bollywood Bollywood films.
I think, would you say it's like a tradition, is as traditional as Bollywood can get?
No, it started a new tradition. It's a cultural milestone. It started kind of, it's kind of solidified a new tradition in Bollywood films.
Can you give some context to on the directors, K. Joe and his father?
Yeah, Karan Johar is big. Like he has this, he makes this huge production value film that they were like pretty box office success.
And he used to have all these big stars in the film, like all star written. It's not one or two stars. It's like multiple stars in one single film.
And big, huge production value, like exaggerated life style, exaggerated melodrama. It's like Indian culture, tradition, mishmash of that. And everything is on steroids.
So his first film was actually Kuch Kuch Hota Hit, which was released a few years before Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gum. And it also has Shah Rukh Khan and Kajol as like the main cast.
So that I think was like the biggest, the biggest grossing film in India at that time. And then Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gum came out and then that became the highest grossing film.
So all the, many of the films that he produced early on, ended up being like the biggest hits in India. So very monumental director.
What about Yash though? What did he do?
I actually didn't know that his father was the producer until we watched Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gum last night. And then his name came up in the credits. And Kili and I thought, okay, maybe they're brothers. But yeah, it turns out he's the father.
No, I looked it up. His dad's a big famous director. Like he's a kind of a nepo baby, Kajol.
Because like his dad was a big, big, a Bollywood guy.
Oh yeah, he did Silcila.
Well, that would explain how he got…
Yeah, his father was big, but not as big as his son.
How he got such a famous cast for his first movie. Because usually directors have to build a bit of a reputation before they can get people like Shahrukh Khan and Kajol to star in their movies. But his very first film was already like a mega cast.
That's why I looked into it because, yeah, so this is the second film, right?
Yes.
And if you have like this budget and this cast and yeah, like a similar cast to the first film, there's got to be some explanation. It's not like a real first time director.
So I looked it up and his dad is big director, big producer. Kajol went to really nice schools, studied abroad, came back, worked under his dad's production company and then took over the dad's production company when the father passed away.
So like his film career is a family business as well. He's taking it from his father just like this movie we saw. And he grew up extremely wealthy and extremely well connected.
So like he's he this is like a peak in the world he was actually living in, I think. He does write what he knows.
Wondering if the father son dynamic that showcased in the movie is actually representative of his relationship with his father.
I will touch on that in my theory at the end. After we wrap up, I think I have the key that unlocks this plot. But yeah, should we start?
I just want to go over the characters of the person foremost. Like so we have a big family, right?
There's Shahrukh Khan as Rahul, Raichan. So basically there's a Raichan family, right?
It's like the succession family. The what was we always going to keep bringing up? What was the way star, right?
So like they have a right a big company, a big conglomerate family name like succession.
Yeah, there's a big company. They live in a big house. It all sent this movie all centers in the in one in one family.
And there's Shahrukh Khan as Rahul, Hrithik Roshan as Rohan, Kareena Kapoor as Pooja, Amitabh Bachchan as Yash, Jaya Bachchan as Nandini.
And then you have Kajol as Anjali and Rani. And then I think it's a special guest appearance, right? Rani Mukherjee as Naina Kapoor, right?
Wait, before we move on, Nikki, good job pronouncing the names. Very good.
A few Bollywood films in and you're becoming one of us. Thank you so much. Yeah. So I was in the mother and the mother, the mother.
I did say that right. Jaya Bachchan is Nandini. Did I? Did I say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. OK.
And then we also have like the nanny, right? Farida Jalal as Saeeda. She's a really famous actor from Bollywood.
Did I cover everybody? Like so you have so basically you have the father, the father, the mother, the patriarch, the matriarch.
You have the eldest son who who's adopted, right, which is Shahrukh Khan, which is Shahrukh Khan.
And then he's he marries the he marries Kajol, who is the woman who is social, who's of a lower socioeconomic class. Right.
And then you have what else? You have the fat kid who becomes a very handsome man.
Rohan and then and then the woman that Shahrukh Khan is supposed to marry.
Yeah, which is like she's a big deal. Right. Like she's supposed to be like it's a special.
So yeah, I want to say something about that. So the name Rahul.
So Karan Johar started like this films like where he was like Shahrukh Khan also was named Rahul in Kuch Kuch Hotha.
And then there also I don't remember the heroine's name, but there also there is a love triangle between him,
Rani Mukherjee and Kajol, where he gets married to Rani Mukherjee first and then Rani Mukherjee dies.
And then he finally gets married to his actual love of life, who was Kajol.
Yeah. So they kind of it's the same similar dynamics here where Rani Mukherjee is like was about to be his wife.
And then he doesn't because he actually loves Kajol.
So we see like it's like a self referencing his first film kind of kind of way.
And he uses some music from also at certain point from his previous films.
Right. Like when he's dancing with Kajol in one of the romance song. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. It uses one of the song, very popular song from his previous film.
Yeah. But it's really cool that like Shahrukh Khan's name is actually Rahul in that movie and Kajol's name is also Anjali.
So they really carried on both characters names into this film.
So is that is that really a thing that they do in a lot of Bollywood movies?
Yeah. Bollywood has this thing of like, you know, referencing other films, other films and like this inside joke that as a Bollywood
enthusiast you would understand. But it doesn't matter to know.
But I mean, it doesn't hamper the story most of the time.
Sometimes it's too much into the story referencing other films.
And sometimes it's just they're just like brushing through references.
I think so. I used to make this comparison because I listened to a lot of hip hop and people asked me why.
And I said because it was I thought it was very similar to Hollywood. Right.
Mostly like rock bands and stuff. You have your own album and it's just songs that you play.
You don't really have guest features and you just release it as this band statement.
But if you're a hip hop artist, you bounce around other projects on your album.
You have songs featuring other people. That's like many movies, you know, where you have different actors come in and do cameos.
And you have producers, which are like directors. Right.
And in hip hop, when you have a certain song come out, you know who the producer is, you know, who like the guest star is.
You know who like the guest stars are and stuff and the drama and the characters in hip hop are very similar to Hollywood.
Until I saw like Indian cinema and how self referential Indian cinema is.
And it's got nothing. Hollywood's got nothing on that.
And so like the way hip hop like references other hip hop songs and every and if you're in the scene like new hip hop songs come out and they'll reference songs that came out that year.
And you're always referencing others hits or songs or people in the industry that you don't really see in other musical genres.
And I think you see that a lot in the Indian films, too, where like they reference other movies that came out.
They reference other actors, other like romantic scenarios they bring back.
And it's just very self referential and meta, which I've never seen before, which is very interesting.
Even the same actor like playing the role like what role he played in previous films, bringing that reference of that character.
Yeah, they bring the context and baggage of what they did before in the movie, which most Hollywood movies don't have.
And I think of many of the films we've watched now has actually referenced the Fear of Stairs movie that this podcast is named based off.
What's the name of the movie, Killy?
Hum Aap Ke Hai Kaun.
Right, right. I think in a previous movie they were watching it.
And in this movie you mentioned that there was a song that was from that movie as well.
So that totally took me by surprise. I was like, oh, yeah, I remember that song.
Like, I didn't realize that Bollywood could do that sort of thing where they bring songs from other movies and implement them into other movies.
That's that's news. They have to buy the rights.
Yeah, well, that's fine. But they're sampling like these movies are sampling other movies the way like hip hop samples, songs and stuff.
And it's pretty cool. Like they're building on top of each other in a way that and we haven't seen that many films already yet.
And they've already it's very insensual already. They're already referencing on top of each other.
So I imagine the more we go out, the more we'll see that build on each other.
Yeah.
So kick us off, Nicky.
OK, so you have Yash.
This is Yash is the patriarch of this whole family.
Light bulb. Also, his father's name is Yash. Yeah.
So he's being very personal on this film. Like, I'll get into it later.
But the brief research I did, like, I think this is an incredibly personal movie.
Yes. The patriarch is named after the actual patriarch of the production company and his dad, Yash.
Yeah. So what does this company do? Like, so we we we can get from money laundering.
So you're telling him the get go that this guy, he's he's well dressed, he's like very powerful man. He's like a business tycoon of some sort.
I do not know. Yeah, he was gifted money and land and then sat on it and money just comes to him and he wears nice clothes and does nothing and fires people occasionally when he visits the office and he just collects money and lives in a mansion.
That house was the most beautiful house I've ever seen.
And he talks about ethics and stuff, so you could pretty much assume, yeah, it's like a money laundering or scam call center or some type of illegal activity that allowed to build this wealth.
Yeah. And I think this is in Delhi, right? So I think is it Delhi? I think it's in Delhi. But Delhi doesn't have mountains.
So there is one thing like I can't like ever like geographically pinpoint where it is from because there is one dialogue that kind of there is one dialogue that kind of references that oh, you are the most beautiful girl in Delhi or something like the daily is mentioned in one of the dialogues, right?
And the Chutney chalk Chutney chalk is in Delhi like the old daily call part. And it's kind of like how they wanted to portray the economic class of that area and everything.
But where is a mountain in Delhi like where they were living in that thing that was like surrounded by hills and stuff. Right.
When you watch the Transformers movie, the one with Mark Wahlberg, like when it cuts to him in the intro, it says Texas, USA, right? Yeah, this is the same vibe where it's just an idea. It's not a place. Yeah.
I think after all the Bollywood movies we've watched now, we can kind of agree that realism is not its strongest suit.
Can we start with the very, very, very beginning like with the family staring at the camera and telling you what the movie is about?
Oh, yeah. The difference between the mother and father love. Yes. Can we please discuss that? Because again, there's no subtlety and they and they just tell you looking at you in the eye before it starts.
This is the movie and then they kick into it. OK, so I guess. OK. All right. I think the biggest thing about this whole movie is that the theme, the theme center around this movie is like we have to honor and respect our parents.
Is that the whole message? That's the whole takeaway. Right. Yeah. That's the whole thing. It starts off with a thank you to his grandparents.
And then it goes into the patriarch and matric of the movie saying how much they love their son. Yeah. And that love is like the strongest thing in the world.
And also showcasing the different kind of love that mothers and fathers give to their sons in Indian households. Right. So the mother is kind of like talking about how she's so open about it and the son knows it.
And the father is like, well, I don't really show it, but I expect that he knows it. So it's also kind of highlighting the difference from the get go.
We understand that Yash's family, he sends his sons to boarding schools. They would come back. Right.
With I think it was like an MBA degree. And then so Rohan comes back and then he finds out that Raul is adopted and he is living abroad with his wife who plays a very important role in the story because this this wife played by Kajol.
She is from a lower socioeconomic status. And, you know, apparently the family does not approve of that. They do not approve of the, you know, if you're not of the same class, it's unacceptable.
And then we get this this this. I think the funny part is that we get this whole scenario where they tell in flashback.
It was like a whole flashback that takes like half of the movie's length. That's it. That's insane. I don't. Yeah. And just quickly to just to touch on it.
So Kajol again, this is my first introduction to all these actors and stuff, but she is like a megastar. Yeah. And like she clearly jumps off the screen.
She's got presence to burn. She walks so Mila Kunis could run like she is the proto Mila Kunis. Like she's like got like she's beautiful and got attitude and is super funny.
And I just totally understand where Shadr Khan loves her and just instantly was like this girl is like incredible. And I just want to call her out.
Like she stands out. She's such a star. I love her. I really like it because she's like so free spirited. Right. In the movie.
She's the original manic pixie girl. We talked about it like she is like this mysterious woman that like has opinions and ideas that I'm so attracted to that.
But she pulls it off extremely well. And you feel that she's just it bodies that and I loved it. There's Adam's romantic confession right there. Yeah.
I mean I until we find someone better than casual I'm a casual stand for life. Yes. So so one of the things that I don't understand is that Rohan comes back right as a fully formed adult and he does not know that his brother is adopted.
How does that happen. How do you go your whole life not knowing. So that that that the show in the flashback of the flashback that they they they adopted the adopted Shah Rukh Rahul when he was one day old.
Not much older one day old. And then they told him at when he was eight years of age that he was adopted. But then they decided that topic will never be discussed in the home and no one will ever bring that topic up.
And be that guy being the dictator of that house whenever he says something everyone has to follow that. So no one even mentioned that he is adopted. So that's not that was never in the conversation ever.
So that's why that younger brother never knew that his elder brother was adopted. So something interesting about this flashback within a flashback is the kid that plays Shah Rukh Khan is actually his real life son.
Oh yeah. So the part when Amitabh Bachchan is telling him that he's adopted. That's his son. So it's a very personal movie. Yeah it seems like it's incredibly personal movie.
Now I wonder if the kid who played Rikthik Roshan is also his son but they look wildly different. So he's like 29 years old.
Is that the son of Shah Rukh Khan's son? No no no the kid who played Rikthik. Yeah so let's touch upon that a little bit. The fat kid. The fat kid. And this is very much highlighted throughout the movie. They call him Laddu.
They fat shame him. They fat shame him to no end. Yeah he has one personality trait which is he eats. And even Shah Rukh Khan just says like hey fatty guess what mom loves me more. And that's it. And the kid is just a little fat little roly poly.
Which they try to show in the movie. No shade on him. But the only thing they talk about and the only thing the mom knows about her own son is that he likes to eat snacks. So I think this is a bit of a culture shock for non-Indians.
I can see how it's very surprising how he keeps getting called out for being fat. But this is actually very normal for Indian households. If anyone's just kind of chubby they'll just keep calling the child Mota which means fat or Laddu which is like that round dessert.
And it's kind of used in an endearing way. It's not necessarily like they're fat shaming him. But I can see how as an adult that could affect a child's self-esteem. But yeah culturally it's just kind of accepted and endearing.
I mean it affected this character because he changed his whole life. Yeah so you can see it's kind of effective because he turned from that to Rick DeGrosse.
So this movie came out in 2001 though. And in America too like all the movies were very body shaming as well. All the female actors at the time were like incredibly skinny.
If you look at the hottie or naughty movie with Paris Hilton which is in Thailand right now the top 10 free movies on Plex. So it's still being watched. But they're like rail thin and the naughty is just like barely fatter than Paris Hilton who's a stick and they body shame her.
You know it was a pretty bad time in 2001 for anyone with curves. But this kid just gets like railed on. And the sadder thing is that he has no personality beyond that. Right. And the funny thing is that he keeps getting called out for being fat but they also keep feeding him.
That also happens in Indian households where like you get shamed if you are fat but then you also get shamed if you don't eat the food. It's like offensive. It sounds like getting shamed is a constant. It doesn't matter what you do.
So the story is being told through flashback about how you know Shahrukh Khan's character gets banished with his wife. It comes in a helicopter too right. I mean like I feel like I think significant for me because it's like it shows the amount of wealth this family has.
Yep. It's absurd not even rich people do that. Like kids shower comes like jumping out of a helicopter alone. No one's there to greet him like it's just like looks like they all have individual helicopter taxis they're jumping out of and stuff and running to their big manners to like continue to do nothing because all they can do is just have different festivals and celebrations because they do nothing. They do nothing.
And what I love is that the matriarch she has this mother's instinct where like she'll like turn around and she can sense when the characters when her sons are coming in.
It's only for the it was only shown for the elder son. The elder son only shown for the younger son. Yeah it's like you see that in the beginning where he comes off in a helicopter and then you'll see that later on near the end where he goes in the mall when when Rohan tricks the parents into visiting them.
Yeah I think it's funny. And then like with the with the with the with the mother sense you also have like a bunch of fans around the characters. Yeah. That's a very visual cue like whenever something emotional going to happen the air blows with the wind.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's I think it's pretty funny in a way but also also a very nice touch when it comes to your movie. Fantastical touch.
So in the movie shower can likes to joke to to her his younger brother Rohan that that the mom loves him more than he then she loves Rohan.
So I guess her mom instincts only work for him because that might be true. And that's brought up again like Rohan brings it up later on in the film as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Our mom does love you more than she loves me. That's why you have to come back. Yeah. Even though he's adopted.
Yeah. And they talk the whole time about what good sons they are like the only thing they do talk about even when like they're away from home is hey dad hey mom I love you I'm being a great son I'll see you soon and they're like man you're such a good kid like we love you you're the best son in the world.
They have no further conversation besides he's just the best son because they just love each other and it's sweet. Yeah.
And so so Raul is coming back from his studies in a helicopter and as we do as we do and we're I guess he's I mean he comes back because he's it's been arranged that if there's an arrangement arranged marriage happening right he's going to also like his studies finished and his father is like introducing him to the business that they do.
Oh yes. Right. I don't know because he never did the business became part of the business so we also have an audience they were new on the business was.
I think it was funny.
Yeah. So, and they're. Yeah. The father.
The father stops already not doing work and says give that non work to my eldest son he's a really good boy let him do nothing instead and so he's passing on the family business.
And then we cut straight to like the town square or some sort and then like we are introduced to casuals character. She's like this really like energetic upbeat character, and jolly right.
And she is, I think she's like comes. She has like a her she has a shop, it's like the sweets shop. And I think straight out the bat I think we were, I think me and Adam were really charmed by her, her character because she's like so, how do you say perfect in every way.
I feel like, I don't know how to say it's like she's not, it's not very like she's not very like print like elegant princessy she's more like a more. She's not a fragile woman fragile woman yeah she's quirky she's quirky, she's adorable.
Yes, every Bollywood movie we see just looks more and more like new girl, and for the fact kids story to I told the wedding looks just like Schmidt when he had his fat boy period and then grows up to be like a good looking guy that gets married to an Indian woman.
I think she, I think it's also important to note that she comes from this place called the Chinese. Yeah, what is what is Chinese.
It's an old old colony in Delhi.
Old space it's a, oh, yeah.
It's next to Jama Masjid. And that's a very old Masjid, like a mosque sorry, yeah mosque in Delhi.
So, yeah, it has good food it's a kind of a mix of all come in different communities that they show in the film that all the neighbors are Muslim Hindus are all living together in harmony and then stuff like that.
So it's a, it's a old part of Delhi. Yeah, and it's, it belongs to like a lower social economic class that sort of thing.
Yeah, I mean, lower compared to the fucking industrialist yeah for sure. But yeah, they put her as a poor person but she's not business communities, a mix of.
It goes from middle class to lower middle class. Yeah. So the, the woman that was the helper for this rich family, Sayida, Sayida. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like casual neighbor and almost like her, her mother figure right throughout the movie so I guess they would be of the
same class level which is maybe more of the help to the rich family. Right. She plays the nanny. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so, you know,
Rahul meets her Rahul meets Anjali they fall in love. I mean there's a little bit of misunderstanding. And what I really like about this whole aspect is that this is not the first time Shahrukh Khan and Khaju were on screen together right they've had shared like a bit of chemistry
between each other. Yeah, yeah, from 92. Yeah. Yeah. And DDLJ. But there was a film before that, Kili, you mentioned. Bazziger. Bazziger. Okay. It was the first blockbuster from Shahrukh Khan. Right. Yeah. So, and then, you know, that is the central conflict of the story right that.
So basically Yash, the patriarchy does not approve of their love, you know, he thinks that Rahul is going to marry the woman that they set him up with. Yeah. And I think we get like another, I love these dramatic moments where like they do the zoom in shots and then they realize, oh no, that's not what I intended to do.
Rahul was like, I'm in love with this other woman. And like, it's so funny because in that scene right, I think the, I don't remember her name but the one that he that Rahul was supposed to marry. Nayana. Nayana. She, she kind of like realizes, okay, he doesn't love me. He doesn't love me and they kind of quickly resolve that where she's like, it's okay, nothing's gonna happen.
She has, she says that Rahul doesn't love her like she loves the guy. So she's like, you need to move on. I cannot marry a guy who doesn't love me.
But the dad says no, shut that down, ignore the woman's feelings and marry her. Yeah. But that was a very emotionally mature conversation they had between Nayana and Rahul right when she's just like, I love you but that doesn't mean you have to love me back. And like she kind of sets him free of that obligation.
It's very hard-warming.
You're not obligated to.
But the dad says you are obligated to, and you're obligated to love me, and you're obligated
to compromise everything you believe in, and everyone's obligated to compromise so that
I don't have my feelings hurt for one moment.
So Rahul was, I think initially Rahul was like, okay, I'll follow what my dad says.
I won't marry Anjali.
But then suddenly we get this big plot twist that Anjali's father died.
And that would mean that she would be like an orphan, and she would have nowhere to go.
And I think that's what causes Rahul to marry her so that she has somewhere to belong.
Is that what I'm getting right?
That can be a reading into it because the way he puts her hand on her head kind of scene
kind of denotes that, but with kind of an antithesis of like she running a business
by herself while the father was already sick from the beginning of the film.
That also then, the reading could be like it's just like she just had a heartbreak from
like father died right now.
He cannot just leave her, like break the news that he cannot marry her.
So I think she chooses her over the father.
I really read it as how, okay, like her father is this male figure in her life takes care
of her and now she's just lost that.
So when he puts his hand on her head, it's almost a bit like paternalistic in a way.
It's kind of like, yeah, I'm going to be the one who steps in and takes care of you now.
I'll be your zaddy.
That's one good looking zaddy.
And then that's why they drop all her business, the sweet shop and everything and goes to
one.
And then they finally get married and then suddenly, you know, Yash gets hit with the
news and that's where we get to see the banishment, the banishment where he's like, okay, I rewatched
it, the scene and I don't think he said anything.
He actually didn't say anything to Shah Rukh Khan about whether like you should get away
from here.
I don't think he said anything like that.
I'm not sure, but like, I think he kind of alluded that you are not my son.
You're not my son.
He disowned him.
He just proved and he doubled down on him being adopted.
That was the biggest blow.
It was that I told them when we were watching this together, it's the end scene of There
Will Be Blood, except it's like the first third of the movie where the dad is like,
you're not my son.
You're adopted.
You're a boy in a ham basket.
Like, get the fuck out of my house.
And then Shah Rukh Khan has the most glamorous life in London as a punishment.
But then when Yash kind of disowns him, you see the mother is really sad about it.
She does not agree with it.
But when she tries to mildly push back, Yash just says his kind of like signature line,
I said it, then I, that's it.
Kili, baby, do you want to try saying that in Hindi?
Yeah, that's Yash's email signature too.
I said what I said.
So you also kind of see the failure of the mother to kind of stand up to her husband
for the sake of her son in this scene.
And we get like this hot wrench.
So we get this hot wrenching moment where, okay, he gets banished.
Rahul gets banished along with Anjali.
And Anjali is like, she was begging, like, we didn't get father's blessing or something.
That was like really important.
And you know, you have this tearful moment that they're, okay, he's being disowned.
We cut to the present day.
We find out that, okay, so this is the thing that took me and Adam by surprise, I believe.
It's like when we thought that Rahul was banished, we thought like, okay, he would have nothing
to live for.
Like he would be poor.
No, but no, he's living just fine in London.
It's better than fine.
He has for some reason in London, it's where everyone else is living in townhomes, even
the richest people ever.
He has, again, a palatial mansion, has multiple servants, multiple like corvettes and cars.
Like they are living the life, again, doing nothing that we're aware of.
We have no idea what his business is.
They don't seem to be-
He goes to a job.
Like he gets ready in the morning.
At least he gets ready in the morning.
Well, he gets ready.
He wears a tie.
So, you know, he does something that involves wearing ties.
But they make a ton of money doing, being socialites in London.
And for some reason, this is just heart wrenching because dad is angry back home.
Yeah.
You get to see this fancy ass like, I don't even think it's a London home.
It's not real.
It's a set.
It's so majestic.
It's so grand.
And like, I'm like, dude, if I have, if I banish from my family, but I have all this
money I can use abroad, I don't care, man.
I don't want to come back.
I'm not going to come back at all.
So what's better, this awesome life in London or your dad being happy and you like run his
corporation?
Like, I think they're fine.
And one thing, so they do take their time to like shit on all their neighbors and their
British neighbors and stuff.
Yeah.
Like even their maid is like these stupid British people, which reminded me, there's this like
Indian, and I, and I heard the same myth in Nepal.
So I looked it up because I thought it was a Nepalese myth, but now I think it's like
just a general Indian myth of some Maharaja wants to go buy like a Rolls Royce.
Yes.
In England.
And they're like, no, you're just a poor commoner.
You're an Indian.
We're not going to give it to you.
He gets super mad.
He buys 10 of them, brings them back to India and then uses the Rolls Royce is to clean
the streets.
Right.
When I was in Nepal, they told me the story.
So I thought this was a Nepalese story, but it turns out could be a bunch of Maharajas
in India.
So I think it's fake.
But I was just kept remembering that story watching this because it's the same thing.
It's like these guys that owned us, you know, they colonized us.
Now we're in their neighborhood shitting on them.
We're cleaning the streets with their Corvettes and stuff.
Like this is the ultimate power move of like conquering your conquerors.
Govrishi Sunak.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
And they go to university and they're getting ready for prom, which is not a thing.
Okay.
So we should bring this up then.
They'll be in their economy now.
One of our sisters is in theirs.
Yeah.
So there were like a lot of elements that weren't really British.
It was so American.
Yeah.
It was a lot of like, so we keep bringing up like, okay, so like Pooja lives with them
as well.
Yeah.
Karina Kapoor's character.
She's a Valley girl now.
She's a Valley girl.
Full diva.
She's like, she looks like Paris Hilton in some ways.
Yeah.
Well, it's 2001.
It's this exact moment.
So she is recreating Clueless and Paris Hilton, but at a university campus in London.
King's College.
In King's College.
And they're going to have prom, which is not a university thing.
And that's a strictly American high school thing.
I don't think British people have proms, which is just a dance you have in high school.
It's not a big deal.
It's definitely not in university.
But what I think they obviously congealed white culture.
And what I was also thinking too is because they watch so many in India in real life,
they watch so many foreign movies, British and American, but the voices are dubbed by
the same Indian actors.
So they, I don't think can tell the difference between the accents.
They're not listening to British people.
Hugh Grant sounds the same as Tom Cruise in their movies.
Yeah.
Probably like they don't differentiate the accents.
So when they watch these white people films, it doesn't matter if it's England or America,
it's the same place.
Also, like when, even if you're watching films with subtitles, that time subtitle was not
really a thing.
I don't know.
But either way, like I can't pick up on Indian accents either.
So even if I was presented with that, I want to know.
I think like the vast majority of Indians probably understand English and just watch
like Western movies in English.
I'd say maybe, okay, let's say half half, but I think Adam's right in that, like the
white culture kind of gets mashed up.
But they probably want it to happen in England because in like India has closer ties with
England, right?
But because Hollywood is kind of the dominating scene of white culture, they kind of put elements
of Hollywood into England, which felt like a mashup.
Yeah.
They go to white people land and do prom in a college with a Corvette.
And yeah.
Yeah.
The most, and then you see all these kids, kids in quotation marks, like they're dressed
in like this, the most Y2K fashion imaginable.
And then like, yeah.
So basically Pooja sees Rohan, Rohan.
So Rohan has flown to the UK just to look in search of Rahul.
Rohan's the fat kid.
But now he's so handsome, ridiculously good looking.
Ripped.
And like he lied to his parents that he was going to go study abroad and they were like,
okay, fine.
But no, he's going to take all this time to search for his brother.
And Pooja does notice him.
Right.
And then like we get this like, she doesn't know who it is.
She doesn't know who it is, but how does she find out that she's attracted to him?
She's attracted to him.
But then like we get this like really cute musical number.
I think you met, I think Winnie, you mentioned that it wasn't really a hit.
I'm not sure like that song.
Yeah, Kili and I both forgot that song exists in the film.
So I don't think it was as popular as the rest of it.
Yeah.
But by the end of that song, we get this like really cute interaction.
Cute.
I don't know.
So there was this tongue twister when what that Pooja, when she was a little kid, she
asked the, she asked the, she asked Rohan to say that tongue twister, right?
And he couldn't.
What is the tongue twister, Kili?
I don't know if that's right or wrong.
Right.
None of us know.
We don't speak Hindi.
Congratulations.
Please write in with a five star review of Kili nailed that or not.
Now go get your Karina Kapoor.
Yeah.
So that now Rohan growing up being all sleek and handsome, he can finally say the tongue
twister.
So that's how she understands that.
Oh, it's that guy.
Yeah.
Now I want to, now that this is a very good time to bring this up.
What is the actor's name again?
Ritik Roshan.
Yeah.
I'm going to say that wrong.
So I'm not going to say it, but he's, he's Rahul in the movie.
He's a super ripped, good looking, but Kili did point this out.
He has an extra appendage on his hand.
Oh, he has, he has an extra thumb.
He has an extra thumb, which you don't notice until it's pointed out.
And then it's the only thing you can stare at, which is fine.
Not a big deal.
Great.
Again, no shade.
However, if the movie is about people not recognizing you and you have the most recognizable
feature, let's not forget, if we go back to the princess bride movie, you remember when
like the guy's looking for the guy with six fingers because it's the most recognizable
thing anyone could have.
If you're in the movie with a character that has six fingers and you just have no clue
that this guy is possibly like the guy you grew up with, that's fishy.
So I don't mind him being in movies or whatever.
He totally deserves to be a star.
He's great looking, but it speaks to like, he, he, he knows he's a nepo baby too, because
there is no way that he should be in this part of the story.
If with that, you need, you need to incorporate it.
You cannot ignore that.
Well, I don't think it's ever pointed out throughout the film that he has an extra thumb.
This is just like a fact about the actor, right?
It has to be.
Like every time Arnold Schwarzenegger is in a movie and no one points out his accent,
I disagree with that too, because it's weird.
Okay.
But he's acted in multiple movies.
Many of them which are famous.
It's kind of hard to like always integrate the fact that he has an extra thumb into the
plot.
It will kind of take away.
I feel like when there are other films and he's just there as a, like a character who
has extra finger, it's okay.
Fine.
He has a younger version who didn't have that finger.
Right.
So either, either.
And here people are trying to recognize who that guy is.
And then you have that and then that's kind of.
That's where it falls apart.
Again, if he's in another movie and he's not, and people just recognize him for who he is,
fine, has no conflict.
You don't need to bring up his extra thumb, but this is pretty important.
So either you attach it to him as a fat kid or you make everyone in the movie also have
six fingers.
So it's a normal trait that everyone in this movie has and it makes them unrecognizable.
Either one.
I go for the latter.
The latter definitely makes more sense.
Everyone should just have an extra thumb.
I think everyone should have had six fingers in this and then it's impossible to know.
Honestly when I, when, when Keely mentioned that he has an extra thumb, I really tried,
I tried really hard to look at his hands, but like, you know, you can't, I think like
you would never notice it.
Yeah, also he is always shot in a way that it's not, it's not very on your face ever.
And also like, yeah, I mean, he doesn't hide it.
So they, they, they, they, they took a stance that he also took a stance that he not going
to hide the fact ever that he has a six fingers, but the shots and composed in a way whenever
he's in a film that doesn't like show, you know, like, you know, very magnified way that
he has six fingers.
But they did kind of hide it.
It did.
When he was, I read in his Wikipedia, when he would try to be a doctor, they wouldn't
let him because when you're like, how many fingers do I have?
The patients would always say the wrong number and it would always be confusing and they
would knock the patient out because they thought he was wrong.
And so like he had to turn to acting.
Is that a true story?
No.
Okay.
So, so, okay.
Yeah.
So, so Pooja finds out that he, you know, it's the fat kid and she would, she finds
ways to try and get him to stay over at Rahul's mansion.
And I think when Rahul meets Rohan, they, they have these, this back and forth throughout
the movie where Rohan kind of like drops hints about their family, that they're connected
somehow.
And he's like, his name is Yash.
His name is Yash.
I have six fingers.
My dad's name is Yash.
You do not know me.
He's like, he introduces his name as Yash.
And he calls him bhaiya, like brother from time to time.
He's like, oh, it's just an endearing way I'm addressing you.
And then like he was doing like the ceremony.
Like what was the thing?
Yeah.
Some, some, some morning.
Some morning ceremony.
Kind of thing and singing and singing and stuff like that.
He said something like, it's what mother would have wanted or something.
Like, yeah, yeah.
He was putting the, the thing on the forehead.
The tikka on the forehead.
Yes.
Yeah.
Chicken.
No, sorry.
This is the Indian saying that.
That's not me.
That's not, it's him being racist.
You guys should not do this with your chicken tikka masala.
It's not the same tikka.
He does the double thumbprint on her forehead.
It's the vegetarian version of that.
So yeah.
So we chicken tikka.
It's the, yeah.
Whatever.
Whenever he drops hints, you have like these audio cues where like Shahrukh Khan's character
goes like, wait, wait a minute.
Like, what is this?
Like, like he gets these hints.
Yeah.
And that's, that's, that's the funny, that's the funny part.
But it's, he's, I mean, if you don't recognize your brother, even if he's lost weight.
Yeah.
I feel like 10 years, if I am, if I, if I haven't seen my brother in 10 years and I
happen to see, I mean, like I would recognize my brother.
Don't forget the power of puberty, right?
Like it's been 10 years.
It's not like you saw him like when he was like a one year old.
I don't think people grow.
So he must still be a young fat boy.
I've never seen any photos.
Also this is the other thing when they go back to their house and like, you know, yeah,
Rahul, Rahul's like all like built and stuff, but like they only have photos of when he
was a fat kid.
No photos of the 10 years he was in school growing up.
Rohan, Rohan.
Sorry.
Thank you.
I think, I think that fat kid was eaten by a bear or something.
What are you talking about?
What?
How could the bear eat a fat kid?
In real life?
No, in the film.
Oh yeah.
And then a friend, a close friend of him, like realized that that is his trauma, that
his father, brother left his house and everything.
So he took his, like role, role.
Like mad men, like he took stolen valor and he just told him his identity is to his identity
and came back as he, that guy.
I have six fingers all hide as this person.
They'll never know when they do my fingerprints, it'll confuse them.
Yeah.
So that's why that's what I think happened.
That's why no one could recognize him.
So he's chilling with Rahul.
Yeah.
He's chilling with Rahul.
And then like, oh yeah, I wanted to bring up something like, uh, so as, as Rohan was
setting, settling in, uh, Rahul makes it known that, you know, he's not welcome here.
He tells, he tells Rohan that you cannot look at Pooja because of the way she dresses.
What do you think about, uh, how Pooja wears?
Like the skimpy outfits that she wears.
I don't know, it's a British culture.
I don't like Pooja.
I knew up in India.
I didn't have, I never saw anyone wearing those kind of stuff.
Well, I think it's actually telling, right?
Because even when Rohan tried to come and stay in the house, Rahul was not having it.
He didn't want it at first.
And then you see the women in the house overpower him.
And then you see Rahul consistently tried to tell Pooja to cover up, but she just kind
of, you know, brushes him off.
So you also see that he's not as patriarchal as his father.
And unlike his household where his mom didn't have a say at all, here, the women in the
household definitely have a voice.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
They run him.
Yeah.
Yes.
Fine.
Girls run the world.
Like go Beyonce.
Girl boss, girl boss.
Pooja is a girl boss.
She keeps saying like, whatever, like British people are ought to do.
Take a chill pill.
Hey man, let's go to the mall.
Whatever.
I'm British.
Oh my God.
I love it.
But I don't like Pooja just as the actor.
The character's fine.
But like she was, she's a fine, but like I just, when you're next to casual, like I just
don't, I don't see the attraction.
Fan boying over here.
That's a Pooja.
So yeah.
Okay.
Yes.
I was just wondering about how, you know, her clothing was like, was it acceptable?
Was it scandalous?
Yeah.
Was it scandalous?
Yeah.
I mean, it was very talked about that point that, oh, she's very, it's like bold.
Yeah.
It's London.
It's like London is a whole different world than India.
They dress differently.
They talk differently.
They go to prom and there's colors.
And this is a theme in the movie as well, right?
Where Kajol is really scared that her son with Rahul is going to grow up as an Englishman.
Like he keeps, she keeps saying, oh, he's already becoming an Englishman.
So you can kind of see this like rejection a little bit of the openness of British culture
maybe and Pooja is kind of this representation of someone who's really adopted British culture.
And like second gen immigrants and like the diaspora.
And I think it speaks to like the fear of people losing their Indian identity and trying
to reel them back in.
Right.
Exactly.
Just look how like the clothing that Kajol wears is all like the traditional, right?
She keeps wearing the sari.
Which makes her way more attractive.
She becomes more traditional in the sense, like she becomes more, like she becomes exaggeratedly
traditional after moving to London, right?
Like when she was in India, like she was wearing like simpler clothes, right?
Right.
And then there she's like always like, I don't know, maybe it's a class difference as well.
And Rahul doesn't look, he's wearing British clothes and stuff.
So she's holding the Indian torch, Kajol.
Right.
And then she mentions a few times that...
He wears British clothes anyway.
He wears a suit.
The guy that the yes guy was wearing suit all the time.
And she mentions a few times that she wishes she could go back to India.
So you can see the family's happy.
They've kind of like adapted to their new life in England, but they still kind of have
this longing for their India and their true culture.
Which they could go back to.
There is nothing stopping them.
No, actually visually and like aesthetically, it's the women's job to carry on the culture.
It's not the men's job.
It's never the men's job to do anything.
Why is that?
I'm commenting on like how people perceive it.
It's not my point of view.
Oh, okay.
I thought you were getting influenced by this movie and becoming a bit patriarchal yourself.
No.
Because that's the thing, the women has to bear and protect the cultural traditions.
It's not the men's job.
I mean, yeah, they inject the part where the son is learning English songs and going to
perform English songs.
That's there.
But like what they wear and how they behave around men and stuff like that, that kind
of falls on women.
And it's just kind of recurring theme that happens in Bollywood a lot.
Yeah.
What are the men supposed to be doing?
Money.
Oh, woo girls.
Yeah.
What did you say?
Woo girls.
Woo women.
That's their job.
That's the water they carry and then women do everything else.
Like culture and food and history and knowledge and teaching.
That sounds nice.
Wooing woman goes to a stalker point.
But men basically just have to bring the money to the family and then they called all the
shots because they are the ones generating wealth and women just have to do as they're
told.
Oh, MBA is a tough job.
As they say in the movie, it's a tough job to study MBA.
Yeah.
And you become very smart.
It's the toughest thing you can do.
Yeah.
It's really you don't understand what it's like.
Yeah.
So we spend like the so the next few the next few scenes in that after that after after
when Rohan was settling in, we we see him adapt to the to living with with with Rahul's
family.
Right.
And then I think I want to take this opportunity to talk about like the music because one of
the one of my favorite musical musical numbers in this movie is the I don't know what I don't
know what you call this this number, but it's the Sonia song.
The when they were in the club, the prom I think is the prom.
Right.
Yeah.
It's a prom.
You are my son.
Yeah.
Why are they talking about Sonia?
Who's Sonia?
Yeah.
Sonia.
I thought Sonia just was a term.
I think it's just a hearing term that the sister wrote.
It's a very common Indian name.
OK.
But I think what I like about that song is that it feels so two thousands are in the
V. I don't know.
It's very dancey.
It's not like it's not very like traditional.
I don't know.
It's not traditional.
It's a prom in UK.
Yeah.
It's a prom.
It sounds exactly like every UK prom song.
How would it be traditional Indian song?
Traditional UK prom song.
We get to see we get to see Rohan's sick moves.
Yeah.
The way he dances with the.
That's that's kind of that song kind of solidify.
That was the he's like.
Confession of love.
Yeah.
So after that, they are together.
That that romance scene is done.
That romance set up is done.
Yeah.
And it teaches you that if you just lose the weight, you can get anyone you want.
That's it.
That's that's the.
You guys are so busy falling in love with Kajal.
Shout out to Rick Degroshe.
And he looks so good, even though he has an extra thumb.
No, that makes him better.
He has 11 interesting things about him instead of 10.
He can really, really dance.
He can dance.
We did notice that, like unlike most big time Bollywood actors or Indian actors, like
he can dance.
He can dance.
He had to make up.
I mean, well, he has the extra limbs.
You might as well use it.
It makes him graceful.
OK.
OK, so what else to cover?
So they go to the prom.
They confess love.
Can we get to the kids singing the national anthem?
Oh, actually, I want to just a little bit more.
I just want to talk about the the Sargi.
There was a Sargi scene.
They explained the Sargi like it's something that you give your daughter in law.
Like the mother has to give daughter in law.
Oh, yeah.
That sort of thing.
The context of that Karoachha.
Yeah, there was like that.
It's a significant moment.
I think.
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a North Indian kind of thing.
Cultural tradition.
It's a day when like it's a cultural tradition, whatever.
So they're the mother in law is supposed to send a gift gift back to the to the daughter
in law.
Yeah.
So just to explain a little bit, like there's a certain scene where like it's one of it's
one of Rohan's things to drop little hints that, you know, your family misses you and
that sort of thing where he he was telling Anjali that, you know, don't you usually get
like gifts from your mother in law?
And Anjali is like very avoidant.
She's like, I don't want to talk about it.
And he's like, you're going to get it this time.
I want to talk, I want to touch upon the fact that like, how do you say this?
I feel like Anjali goes through a lot of change because like in the beginning, she was more
like she was like very upbeat, very like free spirited.
Right.
But as soon as she marries into Rahul's family, she becomes more about more traditional, more
like devoted.
She's like, that's what a girl is supposed to be.
Right.
It's like that's just like.
But it's also her fault that the whole family.
I mean, in her mind, I think her fault that the whole family split like she is the reason
why her husband feels sad.
Husband hasn't spoken to the family.
She's the reason they got disowned.
So it's a lot of guilt.
I'm surprised you guys saw it that way.
I felt like she was still her upbeat, quirky self to some degree.
Right.
Like she has their nanny is also living with them in the UK because Rahul's mother sent
her off and saying, well, since I can't be a part of his life, you go as kind of his
proxy mom.
Right.
So I think that's the life here in a family in India.
They're like, no, go ahead, go to England, leave everyone.
But I always felt like they were still kind of like taking little jabs.
Rahul, she was still kind of like the whole take a chill pill.
Like she was mocking a lot of the British culture, how her kids were talking.
So I still saw that kind of like funny, quirky side to her.
But yeah, I think this was also brought up in the movie where when Buja was explaining
how their life had been to Rohan and she's just like, yeah, we look like we are a happy
family.
But if you get very close, you'll see that there is a lot of sorrow in all of us.
Yeah.
But I think because she she's not the super rich, she didn't travel a lot, I imagine.
She probably grew up in Delhi and stayed in Delhi.
So it's probably harder for her to be completely removed from that.
She didn't like go up to, you know, British boarding school like her husband and stuff.
Yeah.
So it must have been a real culture shock for her.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, fast forward to the to the to the kid.
Yeah.
Sing the best thing I've ever seen.
So I wish I wish people were that united, but there's a certain the the scene where
Rahul finds out that Rohan is his that this this good looking man is his brother.
I think I think Rahul and Anjali's kid was supposed to sing a song or something.
And then the kid I don't remember his name.
Their son was like, this one's for you, mom.
Well, it's a school event.
The kids are they're at some like rich British boarding school.
The kids are all dressed up.
It's this little Indian boy in a suit.
He looks just like me.
It was very triggered.
He looks like I used to wear suits like this.
And I and I did the school talent show anyways.
So there's a little boy dressed up in a suit with a bunch of white girls and stuff on stage
and they're all taking turns doing like a talent show or something.
Right.
And all the parents are sitting on the lawn.
And it's this Indian family with a bunch of white old British people.
And the little boy in the suit who looks like me gets up and just like I guess singing the
Indian national anthem.
Yeah.
Oh, also, there was a point like when the mother was complaining that them being a brown
family, they put them in the most bad like the backseat for the for the for the audience.
Yeah, she was complaining.
And then they were supposed to where they're supposed to like did the the announcers say
they're supposed to perform a certain song or music or something like that?
I think Tajil at one point was like, go ahead, sing Doremi.
Like she was talking to herself and her son was on stage.
So I'm assuming he was supposed to just sing Doremi.
But it turns into the Indian national anthem.
By the way, I played Doremi on the piano in kindergarten.
So when I did the talent show, I played Doremi on the piano in a suit at kindergarten in like
a big elementary school in a big auditorium for the talent show.
This was the most transportive scene I've ever seen in my life because I was like, OK,
that's me on stage doing the same thing.
But I'm guessing you didn't get a standing ovation the way he did.
Right.
This is why I cried because I did not receive this.
So he sings the he's like he's like basically does the same thing as like crumpling up the
piece of paper, throwing it away and be like, I'm going to sing from my heart and sings
the national anthem.
The mom starts like tearing up.
White people start like standing up and like clapping a little white girl in her wheelchair
like gets up like he cures this little white girl's like like polio like they basically
like it's it's it's every parent's dream.
Right.
When you're always like comparing what your kids do and you're like, hey, my kid did the
talent show and you know, he did Doremi on the piano.
You're like, well, my kid sang the Indian national anthem and all the white people started
up and clapped.
And like that's just the mic drop.
Like it's the ultimate parent move.
And the mom's like like shedding tears and she's so happy and she runs up on stage and
just stares at this boy.
Like, I'm so proud of you.
You did the most.
You're the best boy in the world.
You did the most amazing thing ever.
Like you made these white people stand up for the Indian national anthem because you're
such a sweet, sweet, perfect boy.
And it was a love I'll never know.
But that was very touching.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I just I think it's just the ultimate parent fantasy.
I feel like that whole school event was not a school event.
It's just something to drive the plot forward.
It was just on the white people and just show what a good boy he is.
That's it.
Just centered around them.
But yeah, that's how I mean, after seeing that song, you know, Rohan was quoting something
that Rouse like the tongue twister.
It was another part, another thing, like another clue of the that who he is.
It was one of the like a guiding, like it's one.
Something that the brother told him when he was leaving.
Yeah, it was the it was the thing that Rahul was telling Rohan when he was a fat kid, like
that before right before he was flying.
And then like, I think Rohan planted that on Rahul's son to say that advice in front
of Rahul.
Well, I think what happened was like when he sang the national anthem, Rahul turned
to Rohan and asked, like, is this your doing?
And Rohan kind of nodded.
And when the mother was asking her son, like, how did you do this?
What happened?
And then he says, like, well, Rohan gave me an advice, you know, if I ever get scared,
just close my eyes and think of my parents.
Thank you.
Sorry.
I don't know, Rahul, that that's the exact same advice he gave to Rohan 10 years ago.
OK, sorry.
Thank you.
Yes.
Thank you.
So there's two times that's brought up, right, where if you're ever scared, just close your
eyes and think of your parents, which I don't know about you guys.
Has that ever been a comforting thought?
I get so anxious.
Quite the contrary.
Like, usually I'm always thinking about my parents.
It's not to like close my eyes and imagine what they wouldn't say that I'm allowed to
do anything.
I've never felt like comfort in my parents.
Oh my God, if I f*** this up, they would be so pissed.
I'm sad.
God, if my parents saw me doing this podcast right now, I'd feel so much shame.
I'm not feeling comfort imagining their reaction to anything I do.
I can't imagine that boy like didn't piss himself thinking about his parents like on
stage and shit like when has that ever been the best thing you can think of?
Yeah.
And so that there you go.
Like, Rahul discovers that, you know, Rohan is this handsome man is my brother.
Thank God.
The next thing that Rohan needs to manipulate is to tell his parents, tell their parents
to come to London to visit them.
Brings them all to a mall, I think.
Yeah.
It brings them all to a mall.
And then, you know, there's that shot of the mother's instinct where Rahul comes in and
oh, we also got the part where I think the father was like looking at a magazine, he
dropped it and then Anjali took that as a chance to get the blessing.
Like she went down to touch his foot.
Right?
And it still holds.
If you trick someone into a blessing, it still stands.
It's fine.
It still works.
Yeah.
But then, yeah, you get an angry dad, you know, angry dad like you lied to me, you know,
and then we get this other scene where Rohan confronts the father and then the father just
says like, I don't love Rahul.
I don't love him.
I said it, didn't I?
You know, that was another thunderous moment.
Right?
Quite literally because there's actually thunder sound effects in all of the melodramatic scenes.
Yeah.
And then like you get like this whole, like this is like the climax, right?
Where I think we get to another powerful scene where like the mom confronts the dad and says
like you broke this family.
You're not, you know, God doesn't make mistakes.
God doesn't make mistakes.
You're just a husband, not God.
He said something like that.
So yeah.
But by the way, are they, what's their religion?
Hindu.
So why do they keep bringing up like, but they say like the husband's God, right?
Yeah.
So there are many gods.
We are qualitative.
So the husband is also God.
Yeah.
But in the subtitles, they just kept making it capital and stuff is like one.
Oh no.
So still in we, when we write in English, we write it God in English.
Because it's kind of comes from the English language.
So I don't think it's a religious thing.
Right?
Keeley, correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not Hindu, but it seems more like a cultural thing where it's like, you just listen to
your husband, you treat him like God.
Which is, I mean, it's not, I mean, it's a religion is part of culture.
It's like that.
Right?
So it's, it's, it's that like, uh, you have to listen to your husband.
So that's the, and then she's like, Oh, imagine if you had a family and I forgot, but the
Parameshwar or something like that.
Yeah.
Well, Parameshwar is like the God, like Supreme God.
Okay.
So the husband is your Supreme God.
That's psycho.
Like you being told that if you're told like, Hey, you're God with your family.
I imagine so many people exploiting that or going to their head.
It is kind of, that's, that's, that patriarchy is there in Indian culture.
Like it's, it's the, so this film brings out the patriarchy, patriarchal notion.
Everything is on, like I said, everything is on steroids in this film.
It's not this exaggerated, but the basic core sense and values that this film kind of put
wants to portray is aligned, aligns with the upper caste class society of India.
Of course.
So, um, this, this, this, this, this idea.
So that's what, that's why she says like, Oh, my mother said that the husband is God,
but God doesn't do mistakes.
So, but you are doing mistakes.
So how can you become a God?
It took her 10 years to say that, but anyway, yeah.
He's a man, not a God.
You are just a, you are just a husband.
You are just a husband.
You are not a God.
And then we get it right away.
Like she hits back with the thing that he said to Rohan earlier.
I said it, didn't I?
Yeah.
And then walked away.
Yeah.
And I guess like, and then I think, I mean, I guess we get, we get to the end, right?
And then it was like, it was more like, um, I think.
Yeah.
And then the brother overhears a lot of eavesdrops happening in this film.
So the brother eavesdrops on this conversation and calls his, uh, like, calls Rahul and says
like, yes, the revolution is happening.
This is your time to come back and claim the throne.
One thing I noticed is that fucking Rohan, man, he's, he's such a creep.
He's always like behind pillars.
He's always creeping behind people.
He's like listening to everybody's conversation.
He's above the banister.
Like, I think it's so funny that he gets to hear everything, you know?
To be honest, like I can correlate to that being like younger, younger son in the household
where you are not part of any bigger conversation because you were shut down being a young,
young kid.
So you kind of tend to have it like, what are they talking about?
Why am I not part of that?
And then you grow the habit of eavesdropping on conversation.
If he had my spy glasses with the mirrors, you know, he could have more easily done that
if he had my spy tools.
So yeah, we get like the finale scene where Rahul goes into the room of the family portraits,
the big family portraits.
And then like we get to see that the dad, I keep forgetting his name, the dad, the dad
is always, he was, he's actually crying.
So you know, he actually misses Mrs. Rahul.
And then we get this weird.
Yeah, Shash is the dad.
Yeah.
We get this weird scene where he like kind of gaslights Rahul.
Like why didn't you like come back?
Why I never said you should leave or something like that.
And then it's like, and then like Rahul cries and he's like, Oh, because I thought you didn't
love me or whatever.
But then like there was this whole blaming, like I'm blaming you.
It's all your fault.
He's like, dude, I just was angry.
Angry is a part of love for from the elders.
Like pure gaslighting.
I hit you because I care.
Yeah.
But like, why didn't you come back?
It's your responsibility to come back.
Why didn't you come back?
Like, do I have to call you?
And Rahul's like, you kicked me out.
You are right.
I should have come back.
My bad dad.
I'm sorry for getting kicked out.
I'm sorry.
But in the end, the father asks for forgiveness.
All is right with the world.
And oh, another thing is that like, um, I think there was nothing where Anjali was saying
that like, this is not our home.
We should go back.
Like what kind of family are we when we don't have mother's love and affection and father's
blessings?
When she was trying to tell, she was trying to tell, I don't remember what she was trying
to say.
She was trying to tell them that like, the thing, the thing is, I think it's ridiculous.
I still think it's ridiculous that, you know, we are, they live in a grand home in the UK.
There's nothing to worry about.
And they're like, but the problem is that they, you know, they don't have the love of
their parents.
Oh yes.
Like when they were in England, like they were in London, she was saying that, oh, we
should go back to India and that house because how can a house, home be home without the
parents' blessing and stuff like that?
Oh yes.
Yeah.
What's your takeaway on that?
Like, cause I feel like it's ridiculously funny.
I mean, because, so this is what the, like a huge number of one generation wanted their
kids to stay with them even after they get married.
And like, that was the family tradition, family hierarchy that Indian culture was like the
Indian culture that got exported everywhere, packaged and exported.
That's based on that, those kind of values.
So this film sells that values a lot.
So that's how we get to see like, you know, these, these are the core values of being
a family, like, you know, like living in the same, under the same roof, like the home is
not home if the elders are not there.
So these kinds of values are injected in these films.
Like, no, even if, so who was the villain of the story?
Like the father was the villain of the story.
I keep saying it's the father.
Yeah.
But, but every everywhere, like it's kinda, I mean, that's, that's present there.
Like as a viewer audience, like we understand that he is the person who to blame for this
whole thing, but still everyone keeps him in the revered position and never brings him
down.
He still stays up there because at the end he just accepts his guilt, like at the access
is wrongdoing that's, and he's no, I mean, yeah.
I mean, the, the, the villain is, um, just disobeying your parents.
If he didn't disobey none of this would have happened.
He disobeyed there's 10 years of grievances and they come back at the end.
No, I think not.
Because he's disobey is not looked down upon in this film because there was a point where
the father told him that always take, choose the path that you feel right.
And then he chose the path, which fear he felt right.
But I mean, the feeling is his father's ego, but he had, even if he was wrong, no one directly
went and like, you know, confronted him like for this whole 10 years and no one blamed
him that much.
I mean, so what should have been different?
Like what, how would this have been resolved in a better way?
Well, I think you see the scene where he's confronted when his wife pretty much drops
him to her own level, right?
She's taken him off the pedestal.
She's like, you're my equal now.
I'm going to call the shots.
So you kind of see that happening.
And I really agree with Killy's point when he said like, maybe the father is not the
direct villain here is kind of his ego.
And even in his apology, you see him struggle with that where he knows he's wrong, but he
kind of struggles to really just say, sorry, he kind of still places the blame on someone
else and that's kind of like an elitism ego kind of struggle.
Right?
So I think the intention of this movie, it's not so much like revenge.
Revenge is never really a part of family, especially Indian families.
It's more of, yes, you can follow your heart, but you still will have a ceiling to your
happiness if you don't have your parents blessing and you see that happening.
And then, you know, kind of when, even though like now he eventually the father comes around,
he's not, it doesn't have to be shot down.
Like at the end of the day, it's kind of like recognizing that everyone is human.
Everyone has their faults, but you kind of have to always be ready to forgive your family
and accept them, like meet them halfway.
That was my taking.
I don't think it's a matter of like, you have to shoot down the villain in this scene.
It's just kind of everyone confronting their own ego.
Yeah.
And I think Killy, you mentioned when you're watching it, like the conflict sets the bar
really low because I think generally it's just perhaps like upper Indian culture adapting
to globalism and love marriage and stuff.
And that's maybe the conflict is like, is dealing with diaspora.
Part of the conflict.
Yes.
Also, because he arranged the marriage with a girl from the same class, but it's always
involved like when the hero or heroine chooses someone they love, like why would parent go
against someone you love?
Because they belong from different class, they belong from different cast, they're different
from different religion.
So these are the reasons.
So that's what they put here.
Like, you know, the big struggle is here, the man's struggle is here that he loves someone
who doesn't fall in their class and then he has to go against his parents' wishes.
So this brings me to my theory.
This is a nice segue.
Okay.
So we were watching the film and it's very, it reminds me a lot of like Buzz B Berkeley
films.
Are you guys familiar with Buzz?
He was an old time Hollywood director and he did huge musical sets, huge like performance
numbers on a really grand scale.
And it reminds me a lot of that, like a lot of artifice, the houses look like sets, a
lot of its film like indoors, like in these grand, yeah, like set pieces.
They come in on helicopters and drive Porsches and everything's just hyper exaggerated.
And watching the movie, I was like, okay, I'm looking at this as an outsider.
And so I'm able to kind of piece together that like, I think the movie is also being
made by an outsider.
And I was trying to figure out like why I felt that way.
And so I looked up the director afterwards, K. Joe, because he's super famous and stuff.
And I was just trying to figure out like where he was coming from.
Like at first I thought he's just like a Neppo baby who's super rich.
And so he's just writing about what he knows, which is the super rich life.
And that's what we're going to watch.
But when I saw quotes of him talking about his sexuality, like it clicked a lot more
because, especially when he's like using his dad's, his real dad's name in the movie as
the patriarch and stuff.
If you analyze it through this, it's a super personal movie because what he's doing is
he's an outsider to this as well.
He's an outsider to the family structure, right?
If you're gay or queer or whatever, but if you're not able to have a wife and kids as
it's expected of you, right?
You can't provide to the dad in the same way that they can in this movie, in the same way
that Shaira can't.
Like he's not matching his family expectations.
And so because he in real life cannot provide this family to his dad, he's doing it through
the movie.
The movie is giving the dad like the family that his real life dad probably wish he had
had, right?
But the issue is the reason why it looks so cartoonish and outlandish to me is because
it's the same reason like when people do drag performances, right?
If you're an outsider, if you're, for example, like a man looking at feminine identity, when
you try to perform it, it's exaggerated, right?
Because as an outsider, you're able to pick out things that people living in that world
aren't able to recognize, right?
You don't recognize your own ticks and quirks and stuff, but someone on the outside can.
And that's why you have stereotypes.
And when people try to perform or imitate worlds that they're not a part of, it's always
an exaggerated form of it.
This is like drag family.
This is a drag performance of a straight family where it's exaggerated, the falling love with
a woman and the relationship with your brother and your dad and having kids.
This is an outsider's view of what that would look like and what that love looks like because
he doesn't know.
Because an insider will have way more nuances in a family set up.
Way more nuance.
Yeah.
But this is not, he doesn't have that.
He doesn't relate.
He does not, he's not attracted in the same way and he can't provide that type of family.
So he is Rahul, right?
Shah Rukh Khan's character, right?
He is Rahul with the same dad's name and he's not adopted, but he is unable to provide for
his dad in this way.
So I think it is a deeply personal film for him.
And sorry, I just want to just to go on like the camp and the drag aspect because it is
so super exaggerated and like the straight relationships are kind of uncanny.
And yeah, you're right, Killy.
Like they lack nuance.
There's this woman, Susan Sontag, who wrote about like camp and the drag show scene in
I think in New York.
So Susan Sontag in 1964 said, camp emphasizes an exaggerated, ostentatious and outrageous
style that values bad taste and refuses the distinction between true art and cheap imitation.
By changing what dominant culture considers natural and normal into style and artifice,
camp deconstructs normative categories of identity and art aiming to change the ordinary
into the spectacular.
And I think that's exactly what he does with this film, like a normal family situation
is overblown into like artifice and artificiality because that is what he sees from the outside.
And so whether that's true or not, I don't know.
Like I'm not making any like claims on like his sexuality and stuff.
But I think it's if you're wondering why it seems a little off, I think I think it's a
very personal film.
And I think he's viewing a world that he cannot give from the outside and showing that.
I think that's a very interesting theory.
And I think your point about Karin Johar directing this from an outsider perspective is spot
on.
And I think that's also why it caters to the diaspora so much.
Like we, you know, we grow up Indian, but we are not living in India.
So we only get tits and bits of the culture.
And we also watching this as from an outsider perspective, but it almost feels like you're
part of this family, like you're involved in it.
So I can see how this outsider perspective really has results in him having wider reach
through his movies.
Yeah, because I think if you're inside on it, you're like, that's not real.
Yeah.
But but if you're in the diaspora and you don't know if that's how it really is going
on in India or whatever, then that then it becomes more relatable.
And so I think that's why he did speak to the diasporas because they can't really recognize
what's real or what's not.
I think also the fashion, how do you see the fashion in the film?
Like say something about like how you watched it, like how you find this film, like culturally
and the relatability and then that you said already.
Also the what the discussion used to be around these films, like when you were kids, like
how the community accepted this film, like looking up to as being a diaspora kid.
OK, I thought you meant literally fashion.
No, also fashion.
Like first I started from fashion.
So hey, female woman, what do you think about the fashion in the movie?
Why me?
Because because Indian Indian fashion.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, OK, so I I haven't watched too many Bollywood movies, but this was definitely
a staple.
We watched it multiple times.
We watched it every year.
We had a DVD DVD disc and it was good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good,
in the same DVD.
So we'd always have a marathon.
And growing up, it was it was really my inside perspective to Indian culture.
And I could see how there were certain elements that related to my family.
But I could also see that it was highly exaggerated.
So I really thought that, yeah, maybe they're just a lot stricter in India.
Like maybe my family has become slightly more progressive because we've been out of the
mainland for a while.
You know, so that I really took this as a representation of how upperclass upper class
Indian families operate.
I remember crying when I was young watching this movie.
I also remember it being a lot more heartwarming and endearing.
Like I remember the scene between Amitabh and Shahrukh Khan at the end where they reconcile
was like very touching.
And I thought that was how families should reunite.
And it was my first time last night watching it as an adult.
And there were so many scenes that stuck out to me that now that I'm watching it from an
adult perspective, I'm just like, well, this is this is pretty fucking toxic.
This is probably not kind of like how this shouldn't be the what do you call it?
The way it is.
Like did as a kid watching it, did as a kid, do you remember, did you feel like you wanted
to belong to that?
Would it scare you?
Definitely not.
Right.
I mean, there's so many rules.
There's so much patriarchy in the movie that it was very off putting.
If anything, I remember feeling fortunate that I didn't grow up in India so that I wouldn't
have to endure this.
You know, like I probably could not live in a household where the father just calls all
the shots.
The woman don't get any any voice.
Like I'm a girl myself and I had two older brothers.
So there were definitely some gender fights within our families as well.
But our parents, I think, handled it a bit more equally.
I can see how growing up in a culture in a family like this, like it's not even up for
question, up for debate.
It's just kind of like, no, you're the girl.
You don't you should not speak as much.
So yeah, it was.
Yeah, because for a movie trying to, I feel like, speak to the diaspora and perhaps bring
them back.
They're not.
I don't think giving an attractive package.
Well, I can see the message here, right?
Where like this movie recognizes that the diaspora is going to go through things that
disobey their parents.
We're going to fall in love with the wrong people.
We're going to choose fields and jobs that maybe don't align with our parents expectations.
And this movie touches upon all those themes.
But in the end, there's still this sense of no matter what, we still want our family's
love.
And at the end of the day, our family has to come around.
So you see kind of like the obligation putting being put on both the child and the parent.
The child has to always be open for the parent to come around.
And at some point, the parent like Amitabh in this case has to recognize his wrongdoing
has to kind of put aside his ego and find his way back to the kids.
So you can kind of see that no matter how far you go from the culture, from your parents
expectations, both of you have to be open to always reconciling because family is important.
Family is above all.
And I think that was the main message of the movie where it's just like family first.
Yeah.
And I think we did speak that I think the movie perhaps isn't targeted the kids, but
the parents and trying to show the parents on how to adjust and accommodate perhaps more
rebellious kids, which again, I think is the director speaking directly to his dad and
being like, look, like you brought me up in this movie world.
I am perhaps not 100% straight deal with this.
This is the world that you brought me into.
You're going to have to adjust.
And then they have a good relationship.
The dad passed on the production company and stuff.
But obviously there's some very personal tension going on and it's very visible in the film.
I think this film was designed to keep Indian diaspora out of India.
It worked.
Whitney has never been back.
This was happening in India.
Don't come back.
It's pretty bad here.
England seems nice.
You guys have prom and cars.
It's way better.
Yeah.
As a Thai person, right?
I mean, I don't know much about Indian traditions or how things operate over there, but I feel
like this movie for me personally is a good introduction for someone like me who doesn't
know anything about how it works within families.
I know that maybe it's too traditional in a sense, but in a general sense of things,
I feel like I understand how the hierarchy works, the family dynamic works here.
Yeah, I think that was a good thing to see.
To be honest, this trope of children going against their parents is a very common volume
trope.
But what separates this film from those other films is like, even when it happens, in those
films the parents are in absolute wrong and the kids had the full right.
But somehow this film always, I think I'm repeating myself, is always keeping the wrongdoers
in certain reverence that the other films misses a lot.
In other films where the children are going against parents, they fight the parents, they
slam cars and everything, the raw emotions of fighting your parents.
Here they're never fighting the parents.
So they're always keeping them in that reverence.
So that's really what separates this film for me from other films where the children
fighting their parents.
When we talked about this, I think because they are so upper class and because basically
they have everything they could ever possibly want, when you have no want or no friction
in your life, the only drama exists with people's opinions.
Like, dad's angry, I need to change his mind.
But there's nothing you can physically or material do that could possibly do that.
He has everything he needs, he's fine, the kids have everything they need, they're fine.
So without any materialism, the kids aren't...
They have a great life in London.
He doesn't need to fight his parents because he still has a great existence.
If there's no material friction going on, you react less because you have less to fight
for.
Now you're just fighting over someone's opinion and not your livelihood or your right to exist
or to put food on the table.
And so when you lack all connection to a struggle or a material existence, it's very hard to
escalate the fights beyond, this guy's stubborn.
So I interpret this as just the sheer power of patriarchy.
Because yes, a lot of Indian movies deal with this theme, but I think the patriarchy was
a lot more blatant here, it was a lot more felt.
And that's why Amitabh says that line a few times, where he just shut sound discussion.
You can't speak back to me.
I said that, didn't I?
Enough, that's it.
And so it also leaves very little room for anyone to kind of bring him down or challenge
his beliefs to the point that the mother doesn't contact her son for like 10 years, even though
she misses him and she loves him.
I wonder if that was actually Ashokra's line.
Well, I mean, he's a director.
He's a control freak.
You know, like he's a director.
Yeah, he's a director, right?
That's what they do.
But I think, you know, he runs a big company, everyone listens to him.
And I think in real life, that's exactly how it goes.
No one can say no when you have that much power and control over something.
I think if you're from a lower class, I think you're more willing and have to listen to
outside forces that tell you to stop police or military or other people.
But when you're at that level, there is nothing that can change your mind except yourself.
There's no there's no outside force.
Except the mom.
Yeah, the mom.
Anyways, closing thoughts?
No, I think I felt like we covered everything.
This was a very nice.
So for me also, like watching it again in adult age, also, like when I watched it before
in India, this film was never shown with subtitles and I didn't understand Hindi that point of
time.
But for me, also, it's like a totally new viewing of the film that the dialogues and
everything in the details are like it's it's it's over.
Did you speak Hindi, Winnie?
No, I don't.
So how did you watch the movie?
Subtitles.
So and I think that is pretty common then, too.
I think they had to take that into account of being hyper exaggerated because most the
audience probably didn't speak the language or could understand.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was the thing.
That's why like there is no room for subtlety, right?
Like when I was telling, oh, that he did that.
And then that was kind of under the radar, like, like, subtly, subtly, definitely the
next scene he will repeat those words like twice or thrice.
Right.
Yeah.
So that kind of thing happened.
And for me, this was just another film, another blockbuster Bollywood film.
But like looking back, like how it became a cultural milestone, like I can understand,
I can relate to it with Indian TV, like Hindi TV drama.
Like this, this house set up, even even from the cinema, cinema point of cinematic point
of view of like, you know, how the editing was done, how the camera movement, the zoom
in.
So these were like this.
This aesthetics is very known to me from Hindi TV, TV drama.
So this, this takes that aesthetic of those shows and puts it in Bollywood a lot.
Yeah.
And I also just want to say, this is really monumental, right?
So the song, Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gham song, Kili, do you want to try humming it for us?
No.
Okay.
Fair point.
But in acting,
Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Kushi
Standing ovation, you.
I am like a proud mom and I am crying tears and you have white people, the people listening
can't see this, but there's white people all around us standing up.
There's a guy, a white guy that was on his death bed that's standing up and cheering
for you right now.
You're incredible.
And I think your mom would be very proud of you.
And she's crying right now.
And when you enter in the same province and say, she'll know that you're there and she'll
come and find you and hug you for this.
So that exact, that exact song that Kili just hummed that brought everyone in this room
to tears is actually played on Bridgerton.
So I think it was either in season one or season two, there's a character from the Indian
diaspora and they played this scene and I think one of her Haldi ceremonies and the
song comes in the background.
And I think it meant a lot to the Indian diaspora in England as well, which is a huge one.
So just to show how the reach that this movie has, how iconic it's been.
That makes so much sense.
This is the Bridgerton of Bollywood films.
Yeah, exactly.
That makes so much sense.
The Royal Aspiration.
It's pure aspiration for the director with like a life he can't have for everyone watching
it for like, it is the most aspirational thing I've ever seen.
It is a Vogue magazine, 24 frames a second.
It's pretty good.
The movie apparently has 100% in Rotten Tomatoes.
So I just want to get your guys thoughts on whether you would say this is the best Bollywood
film we've watched yet.
Oh, geez.
Okay.
So I found out that it was like, hang on, that's something here.
I just want to say too, if anyone's listening, like we're not here to like necessarily review
or say if it's good or bad or our opinion, you know, we're just here to watch and learn.
So like if we like it or not, that doesn't invalidate your feelings listener.
Yeah.
Like I said, I guess like this movie, you know, not to like, you know, agree with what
everyone like, I mean, basically, I think this movie is a great introduction.
Like if someone were to ask me, you know, hey, I want to get into Bollywood films, what
could be something that could give us some insight into how families operate, then this
is the film I would say.
And at the time for this movie, I found out that it was actually, it was one of the, it
was probably the most expensive Indian film ever made.
I mean, just the helicopter cost more than most Indian films at the time, just to bring
the helicopter in.
Yeah.
Around six to eight million US dollars.
And it was also the highest grossing Indian film at the time.
And let's not forget, I'm sorry, really, really quick too, when they did the big love musical
number and they're at like the pyramids and they're at like all these like amazing like,
like landscapes and stuff, like they paid an insane money to like buy out for like the
pyramids for one shot.
And they have shots like, you know, going from country to country.
Yeah, they went to Egypt to do that musical number just for that.
No spared expense.
Yeah, Egypt and then the other one was like maybe Turkey or something.
I don't know, but like incredible locales, they're bringing in helicopters, they're like
making huge mansions, you know, that stuff costs money and they're filming in England.
That's not cheap.
Yeah.
And it was also a good way to see what are some of the Indian staple songs?
What are some of the songs, like what are the most memorable songs that you still see
every day like at weddings or you know?
Oh, yeah.
Thank you.
And at the wedding too, just really quick, they did the callback to that song from the
other movie we saw.
Yes.
Yeah.
They did the callback song from his own film.
Yeah, it was there during that Karwa shot scene.
It's great because like Adam previously mentioned, you don't see those kinds of references being
made in a way.
Like it's like just a callback to other memorable movies, memorable scenes, memorable musical
numbers.
Yeah, I think this film has been an eye opener and to anyone listening, I guess you could
stand to lose some weight.
Yeah.
And in the spirit of this movie, I give this 11 stars out of 10.
Wow.
That's a standing ovation right there.
It's just a finger reference.
Well, I think this movie is highly contested a little bit in India, whether it's like iconic,
a landmark or overrated, so Killy, give us your perspective as well.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not what's your...
It's a cultural mind stone.
What does that mean?
What's your feelings on it?
I didn't like this.
The truth.
Why?
Sorry.
It's okay.
So when I was getting, I was not interested in this film either.
Like I just watched it before everyone else was watching it and I got super bored towards
the end.
I was like, where is this going to end?
But now I see like, it's more of a film like now I see to analyze it.
It's not, I see to enjoy it.
Yeah, that's why we do everything.
We eat to analyze it.
It's super fun.
Last question, Killy.
And actually maybe, maybe Nicky said, Kojol or Nina Williams taking character?
Which one?
I don't know.
I would go with Nina Williams dresses Kojol.
Unbeatable.
I can dress her up like all your way.
We'll go see.
So Killy is your phone blowing up by the way?
Are people waiting for you?
Yeah.
We have a tech and party that Killy arranged an hour and a half late for, so we got to
go do this.
So thanks for tuning in.
We'll have a movie next time and we're going to go dress up Nina Williams as Kojol and
let you know how that works out.
All right.