[00:00:00] Speaker: Love, chaos, hard work. family. If you're listening to me now and have a multi-dog family and I asked you why did you adopt more than one dog, you likely would tell me that your desire to help or to fulfill a need with you at or within your family. Your reason for taking on more than one dog, possibly more than two, and even some brave parents who have taken on more than three.
[00:00:45] Adopting a dog is a journey of integrating another being into your life. And it is a lot.[00:01:00] 
[00:01:03] Now this episode, we're going to look at the challenges with a multi-dog family. It will answer questions like, why do my dogs fight? And what can I do about it? Because families are complex, every person, every dog has their own needs and ways of interacting. Fighting, for example, often stems from an unmet need.
[00:01:28] Maybe one you've noticed but didn't realize how it fit into the bigger picture. But let's do what great detectives and system thinkers do. We'll take a step back and ask some curious questions. Look for some patterns hiding in plain sight. Chances are the system already has been giving you clues. You just need to know where to look.
[00:01:54] Now, as a psychologist, this is not a "training" [00:02:00] podcast. We don't 'do training'. Training instruction works on a single problem with a skill based fix. If you haven't attempted to solve your problem with training, you want to give it a go. But this episode, I assume you are struggling with a tougher problem that hasn't been solved with teaching the dog tricks or skills.
[00:02:24] I've put a table of moments into the video for you to skip ahead to answer specific questions. So if you're in a rush, you please take a look at that and you can skip right to the parts you want. But I do encourage you to listen to the entire episode because sometimes the answers you're looking for are in the critical details.
[00:02:44] Also, as with my practice, I work with highly traumatized dogs, so my lens always accounts for adopted dogs from a rescue or a shelter that have a past that is troubled. Okay. So the story today. [00:03:00] will seek to provide answers to high level questions like, Why do my dogs fight? And how worried should I be?
[00:03:08] What options are there besides rehoming or euthanizing my dog? And deeper dive into questions not readily available out there. What are the signs of stress or conflict between my dogs? How can I prevent or manage resource guarding? What strategies encourage harmonious relationships between my dogs? How can I effectively divide my attention between multiple dogs?
[00:03:37] And how can I calmly n communicate with multiple dogs simultaneously? Let's get started. I'm going to introduce you to a family. The story is inspired by real families I've worked with, but the goal isn't to tell you about just one story. It's to highlight the lessons and patterns and tools that can help you find [00:04:00] balance in your own multi-dog household.
[00:04:03] We provide this story because multi-dog problems aren't unique. They're present in every home. There are system layers waiting to be uncovered. So let's meet Monica and Tom and their three-dog home. Their dogs are Barnie, an adopted hundred pound Bernese, hundred pounds. There is Pop, an 80 pound rescue golden retriever lab cross, and there's a newly adopted puppy, Carrie, a young black lab, about 30 pounds.
[00:04:35] If you can imagine that, so big and going to short. Okay. For those of you listening to this podcast, know that there are resources available to you, uh, that will show you how we use a diagram to chart out all the contributors to a problem. And you can access some of these resources through our website or barely yet gain the largest set of resources by [00:05:00] becoming a patron of this podcast.
[00:05:02] And by doing so you support the mission. to keep adopted dogs in homes by providing accessible information to dog parents. So let's answer our first question. 
[00:05:14] Why do my dogs fight and how worried should I be?
[00:05:14] Speaker: Why do my dogs fight? And how worried should I be? To answer this question, we need to also look at the human dynamics of the family, not just the dog.
[00:05:25] Because surprisingly, you as the dog parent are naturally contributing to the problems and the successes of the behaviors coming out of the family working together every day. That's all normal and natural. So you have to be included as part of the problem and part of the solution. Yeah. Okay. The incident that brought Monica and Tom to me was worry about Barnie attacking the dog.
[00:05:54] and biting pop. This story has multiple variables as I mentioned, and we begin with each [00:06:00] individual in the family. Let's bring them into an imaginary playing field. For those of you listening, I am writing their names on an imaginary whiteboard. There's Barnie, Pop, and Carrie. And we can't forget, as I mentioned, Monica and Tom.
[00:06:19] The problem, Barnie attacking Pop, creates our first connection. Connections are really behaviors within their relationships. Connections can increase the behavior in another or they can decrease a behavior in another. So in this case, I recognized that Barnie attacking Pop creates a strong reaction, so it increases the influence on Pop's behavior.
[00:06:47] Okay, so let's make this more specific. It's Barnie's agitation. So we're going to edit this label and put an agitation that escalates the attack on pop. And we're going to add in the word [00:07:00] attacks to that connection arrow. So now we can see there's Barnie's agitation is one label on this, on my whiteboard.
[00:07:07] And We're going to have an arrow that is labeled attacks, and then we're going to go further. Okay, so Pop perceives Barnie as a threat because he's attacking him and retaliates. So let's just consider that, and we're going to change the label here to Pop's retaliation. And so Pop goes back and he bites Barnie a few times.
[00:07:32] It's Pop's instinctual reaction to defend himself, let's just say for now. Now, if you're following this, Pop's retaliation reinforces a mutual perception of threat between the two dogs. We're going to add in another field that says, Mutual perception of threat. So you can now imagine on this imaginary playing field, we have Pop and his retaliation.
[00:07:58] We have Barnie [00:08:00] and his agitation. We've got those connected. And now we're going to connect both Barnie and pop to the mutual perception of threat because now they see each other as a source of danger and they're both amplifying their respective emotional states. This shared perception doesn't resolve, but instead it feeds back into itself.
[00:08:21] And it creates tension that continues to build. Now, here's where we want to learn about the types of feeds that make this dangerous situation escalate, right? Because we could really get into a big fight here. There are two types of feedback loops. One is reinforcing. and the other balanced. Here we have a reinforcing feedback loop, and I'm going to just add it in here.
[00:08:47] Because the mutual perceived threat loops back into Barnie's agitation, it increases the likelihood of the attack happening again. Similarly, Pop's retaliatory behavior [00:09:00] reinforces his own perception of Barnie as a threat completing the cycle and let's face it, intervention is urgent. Well, that's a story as old as time, isn't it?
[00:09:14] Now for me as a psychologist and a systems thinker, I see a pattern. I bet you do too. Patterns is what all systems thinkers do and some of you will come by this naturally. So the first thing we know is that the bites between Barnie and pop was a symptom of a Of deeper systemic issues like competition.
[00:09:36] resource guarding, environmental stress, or physical discomfort rather than isolated bad behavior. And now Monica and Tom can ask better questions than how can we fix Barnie. They can ask questions like, does this happen during different times of the day? Does it occur when [00:10:00] Barnie is in a cramped setting with Pop, or what starts Barnie to become agitated?
[00:10:09] How does Carrie, Monica, and Tom help this loop from repeating and making it worse? Yes, there is something to worry about to go back to our question. This could be resolved with the right interventions that we will get to shortly. But now onto our second question. 
[00:10:29] What options are there besides re-homing, re-surrendering or behaviourial euthanisia?
[00:10:29] Speaker: What options are there besides re homing, re surrendering, or even the worst case, euthanizing one of these family dogs?
[00:10:39] Your beloved dog's fighting is hard to witness and may leave you shocked. It's not uncommon to give someone like myself a call to ask what to do now. Rehome my dog, send them back to the shelter, or choose to one of them to euthanize. When I speak to [00:11:00] families about a recent fight, I ask the caller to focus on patterns, not the event itself.
[00:11:07] When we see conflict as a pattern, Rooted in moments of tension, resource competition, or unspoken cues between dogs, we can start to find options that focus on reshaping the system rather than removing its members. And here's something surprising. The funny thing is that in nearly every case of calls I get about serious multi-dog family fights, the dog parents are incorrect about where the problem lies.
[00:11:42] And here's some foreshadowing about what's coming up. Barnie! I listened to the system and through that I discover options that not only prevent future fights but also bring dogs [00:12:00] and your household closer to a balanced state. And I'm going to show you this because you can do it too. So now we evolve to a deeper dive and answer the question, 
[00:12:09] What are the signs of stress or conflict between my dogs?
[00:12:09] Speaker: what are the signs of stress or conflict between my dogs?
[00:12:13] Two points to make. First, let me point out the loop we uncovered, the pattern of behavior. is a window into the ecosystem surrounding Barnie and his family. And it's a loop in your family as well. Let me explain. The problem here doesn't lie with Barnie. It lies with the loop. Monica and Tom notice Barnie starting it first.
[00:12:40] We've all heard that, right? Who started it first? And like most, they felt that the problem lies within who started it. But when we focus on patterns, not the event itself, we don't seek blame and ask us to look deeper. For example, in this case, we found patterns like the [00:13:00] way Pop guards his resources, how Carrie watches and mirrors the tension between the two, even patterns like subtle shifts of posture.
[00:13:09] or lingering eye contact. All of these are signs that the system is speaking. Now, the second point I want to make is this. Did you know that conflict between dogs rarely begins with an explosion. It builds moment by moment. It can be as simple as a glance that is too long or as subtle as a shift in the body weight.
[00:13:39] And what we aim to do as dog parents is to intervene, but not at the peak of the fight, but before that reinforcing loop gains momentum. So what are these early tremors before that quick begins. We are looking for signs of stress and tension because these are the [00:14:00] system's voice. The flick of an ear, the shift of position, or a glance held just a A second too long.
[00:14:07] These are the whispers before the chaos. To help you identify these whispers, I've created a free downloadable guide. You'll find this link in the description below. Think of it as your toolkit to step into the role of a detective. Carefully observing, listening, and piecing together the subtle Signals that shape your dog's family dynamics.
[00:14:33] And as you do this, don't just watch for individual moments. Look for rhythms, cycles, and the way your dog's behavior interacts. Because the signs of stress and tension aren't isolated. They are like threads in a system's fabric, guiding you to the patterns you need to change. Yeah? So the next question in our deeper dive that we're going to answer [00:15:00] next is, 
[00:15:00] How can I prevent or manage resource guarding?
[00:15:00] Speaker: how can I prevent or manage resource guarding?
[00:15:04] In multi-dog families like Monica and Tom's, we discover that Pop was resource guarding precious items. Here's what we know today. We know that resource guarding is complex. Up until now, if you call the behaviors about resource guarding problems, they would heavily lean on specific types of resource guarding to solve the problem.
[00:15:28] I'm here to tell you that if you use a solution that first starts with what is the type of resource guarding to solve the problem, you will be ineffective and you will not get longterm sustainability of that behavior. Why? Because it focuses, on everything but the root cause, which is the scarcity fear.
[00:15:49] And we're going to get into that in a few minutes. But resource guarding is capable of re emerging in another context. And if you have a multi-dog family, it can spread. [00:16:00] It can be contagious. So you can see it re emerging in the same dog in a different context or with one of your other dogs. But we're going to show you how to overcome this.
[00:16:12] Using system thinking, we focus on the interconnections and patterns of the system for which the behavior is emerging. The root cause for resource guarding isn't singular. It is a scarcity threat. It's that simple. You will know how it manifests. You'll see a fight, a growl, a snarl, and you may know that a toy or a bone or a person or a place on the sofa is the center of it.
[00:16:42] So, stick with me here and I will validate your own intuition with what to do and help the system thinker in you to see this. So, let's return to Pop. Pop is lying on the sofa. He lets out a low growl as Barnie [00:17:00] walks by. He's clearly signaling his discomfort. At first glance, you might think that the sofa is the problem.
[00:17:10] It's POP's highly valued resource, and he's defending it. If we follow an individual approach, we might tailor a solution specifically to this situation and disarm the SOFA. Coming up with strategies for SOFA guarding and how to stop it. But here's the thing, resource guarding isn't about the SOFA, or the food bowl, or the toy, or even the person.
[00:17:36] In this case, let's say Monica. It's about scarcity fear, a universal driver. of guarding behavior. Pop's growling is the system speaking. Something is out of balance. And the beauty of systems thinking is this. You don't need to painstakingly tailor interventions to every specific resource. The tailoring [00:18:00] happens naturally when you address the problem.
[00:18:01] For Pop, this means studying the patterns of interaction. When, where Guardian emerges, how Barnie's presence influences Pop, and how Monica's reaction might influence Pop. worsen this or help with this tension. Once you understand these dynamics, you can make targeted changes that disrupt scarcity fears across the system.
[00:18:29] Hey, I'm just popping in here for a minute as I just want to take a minute and explain scarcity threat. It's when a dog anticipates that something valuable like space, opportunity, or attention might be restricted. It's not about what is happening, but what the dog thinks might happen, and that triggers their brain to act.
[00:18:52] Now, in a multi-dog family. If one dog, let's say Pop, starts guarding, that tension spreads. [00:19:00] Other dogs, like little Carrie, pick up on it and their, and their brains trigger the same emotional and nervous system response. It becomes a shared reaction to a perceived threat. And that is scarcity threat. Now let's get back to it for all dogs in your multi-dog family.
[00:19:22] This doesn't just resolve sofa guarding. It addresses guarding. wherever it appears, whether it's Food Bowl today or Monica tomorrow. By focusing on the system, the solution becomes broader, simpler, and more effective. You no longer are chasing symptoms. You're reshaping the environment that sustains them.
[00:19:48] So back to the question that we're answering, how can you prevent and manage resource guarding? The answer isn't about focusing on specific resources like the sofa, the food bowl, or the toy. It's [00:20:00] about observing the system's interaction signals, studying the patterns that emerge, and identifying the dynamics sustaining the system.
[00:20:11] fears. That's what this is all about. And for those ready to deepen their understanding, my patrons will receive access to an exclusive system patterns tracker. This guided chart helps you build on what you've learned, uncovering not just interaction signals, but when, where, and why of guarding behaviors within your system.
[00:20:39] It's a tool designed to empower you with clear insights and actionable leverage points. So let's head back to that imaginary field that we started working on and build on the system we've already uncovered. We know the reinforcing loop of mutual perceived threats [00:21:00] exists between POP and Barnie, creating a cycle of agitation, retaliation, and escalating tension.
[00:21:08] And this isn't the full picture. Systems are dynamic and multiple factors are contributing to the behaviors we're seeing. First, we need to consider Monica and Tom, the human contributors to the system. And you'll probably be thinking about yourself right now. But their reactions, both calm and stressed, directly influence their dog's behaviors.
[00:21:32] You likely know this already. So we're going to add in Monica's calm responses. When Monica remains calm, it sends a signal of safety to the system, which can help reduce POP's perception of as a threat. Let's add in a connection from Monica's calm response to mutual perceived threat that we had on the field.
[00:21:57] When Monica's calm, she reduces the [00:22:00] mutual perceived threat. Okay, that's pretty straightforward, right? But now, Now, let's add in Tom's stress because we've got Tom here and when he becomes stressed, he raises his voice or intervenes in a tense moment without clear direction. It can heighten the system's tension.
[00:22:21] So we're going to add a connection between Tom's stress to Barnie's agitation. So for Tom, his stress directly amplifies Barnie's agitation and it feeds into a loop that we already identified. Now, let's think about the environment. Pop and Barnie's mutual perceived threat doesn't happen in isolation.
[00:22:43] It's influenced by the physical space they share. Let's add in the guarded sofa. So Pop guards the sofa as a high value resource. This creates a direct connection to Pop's retaliation. The more Pop [00:23:00] values the sofa, the more likely it is to retaliate when Barnie approaches. Let's add in crowded spaces. Now imagine the living room during these tense moments.
[00:23:11] If the space is too small or cluttered, it amplifies the tension between Pop and Barnie. So with the label that we now have on the imaginary field of crowded spaces, we're going to connect that to mutual perceived threats. A tighter space increases the chances of both dogs seeing each other as threats.
[00:23:33] Now let's add Carrie's rule in. She's the youngest and the most impressionable member of the family, and her behavior is shaped by what she observes. So when Pop and Barnie are tense, Carrie often mirrors their stress, which can further amplify the overall system's tension. This creates another reinforcing loop, where we can see that Carrie's stress feeds back [00:24:00] into Barnie's agitation.
[00:24:01] Which feeds into attacking Pop, who's guarding his sofa, who is then upset and attacks Barnie because he feels he's a threat. And there we've got a complete cycle that's happening. As I said, multi-dog families are brave. Okay. So now that we've expanded the system, let's think about how to break these loops.
[00:24:32] This, we introduce balancing factors. So rather than reinforcing what's happening, we want to balance things out. And these balancing factors are leverage points that reduces tension and creates harmony. So rather than doing a skilled base, individual solution to an individual problem, we're looking for a leverage point that reduces tension and creates harmony across the entire [00:25:00] system.
[00:25:00] Cool, right? Okay, so now we're going to add in space management. So imagine Monica and Tom using barriers or designated zones to give each dog their own space. This intervention directly reduces competition and tension. So we're going to add in a field here on our imaginary plane field that says space management.
[00:25:23] And we're going to connect that to crowded spaces to show that it decreases the crowded spaces problem. Finally, we connect the mutual perceived threats that we have on the board that Barnie and Pop are both feeding into, and we connect it to space management. And there it decreases the the challenge of the mutual perceived threat.
[00:25:49] So space management is huge in this scenario. And this indicates that by addressing mutual perceived threat through better space management, we disrupt the reinforcing loop [00:26:00] and instead create a balancing loop that reduces tension over time. Okay, now we're going to add in another balancing factor. Let's put in predictable routines.
[00:26:14] By establishing consistent times, feeding, playing, and rest, Monica and Tom create a sense of security for their dogs. Predictable routines provide stability in the household, helping the dogs anticipate what comes next, which reduces their overall tension. Let's connect predictable routines to Tom's stress, that shows that it decreases the stress.
[00:26:40] Now, by decreasing Tom's stress, which in turn helps him to maintain these routines consistently, the calming effect includes reducing Barnie's agitation, making it easier for Pop to settle as well. By stabilizing these patterns, Monica and Tom introduce a balancing factor that ripples [00:27:00] through the entire system, helping to break the reinforcing stress and tension.
[00:27:07] We're going to add a decrease of Carrie's stress now by using Monica's calm response, which we had on the board. So we're going to connect Monica and Carrie's stress together because Monica's calm response plays a key role in the system. By modeling calm behavior, Monica can focus on directly reducing Carrie's tendency to mirror stress through what we've already spoken about in other episodes, This calming influence interrupts the reinforcing loop between Carrie's stress and Barnie's agitation, which is where we kind of started, right, is right at the beginning.
[00:27:47] And we said, you know, Carrie's stressing and then it gets Barnie upset and it's a, it's a loop. Well, here we go. We're going to break that loop by having. Monica [00:28:00] provide some co regulation. So that's creating a balancing effect. So now we're going to bring it all together. What we've built here is a fuller picture of the system.
[00:28:10] It's not just Pop and Barnie. It's Monica, Tom and Carrie and the environment shaping their patterns. The guarded sofa, for instance, isn't the root of the problem. It's a symptom of POP's underlying scarcity fear. By addressing these deeper patterns, Monica and Tom didn't just resolve the guarding, they disrupted cycles across their home.
[00:28:32] This is the power system's thinking. It's not about isolating problems. It's about seeing interconnected dynamics. and making small changes that ripple throughout the system. And the beauty is, once you start seeing these patterns, you'll find opportunities for change everywhere in your home. Let's return to our remaining questions with this expanded understanding.
[00:28:57] Now that we see the systems behind the resource guarding and [00:29:00] tension, how do we create harmony? Divide attention and communicate effectively in a multi-dog household. To encourage harmony between your dogs, think about the system they live in. Harmony isn't just about fixing one dog, but understanding how their interactions reflect the system patterns.
[00:29:23] So here's where system thinking shines. By reducing competition, creating clear spaces for each dog, and rewarding moments of calm interaction. Monica and Tom shifted the system's energy from tension to balance. They didn't need to focus on isolated behaviors like sofa guarding. Instead, they reshaped the environment so harmony could emerge naturally.
[00:29:53] So the next question we had is 
[00:29:55] How can I effectively divide my attention between multiple dogs?
[00:29:55] Speaker: how can I effectively divide my attention between multiple dogs? And I can tell you when [00:30:00] I'm working with three dogs, I'm like, I wish I had a third hand. But dividing attention in a multi-dog household can feel overwhelming, but it's another systemic pattern. Often tension arises when dogs compete for attention because they see it's a scarce resource.
[00:30:20] Monica and Tom address this by creating predictable routines, one on one time for each dog, like brushing pop in a quiet corner and shared moments that reinforced calm group dynamics, like sitting together during a quiet evening. By creating a consistent rhythm, they reduce competition and made each dog feel secured within the system.
[00:30:48] The next question we had was 
[00:30:49] How can I calmly communicate with multiple dogs?
[00:30:49] Speaker: how can I calmly communicate with multiple dogs? Simultaneously. Communication in a multi-dog household starts with you. [00:31:00] Your emotional state sets the tone for the entire system. Monica learned that when she approaches tense moments calmly, using consistent and gentle cues, her dogs mirrored.
[00:31:17] Predictable routines and structured environments further supported communication, allowing her dogs to anticipate what was coming and respond with trust and attention. Instead of tension, the story of Pop, Carrie and Barnie didn't end in chaos. It ended in balance by seeing their family as a connected system rather than individual problems.
[00:31:44] Monica and Tom addressed deeper patterns like scarcity, fears, and competition through small. But intentional changes, managing space, building routines, and calming their own response. They [00:32:00] created an environment where harmony could emerge naturally. Their dogs didn't need to be fixed. The system did. This isn't just their story.
[00:32:12] With systems thinking, these kind of transformations are possible in any home. And I hope that this has resonated with you. As we close, let me ask you this. Are you pregnant? Thinking of adopting a child? Or maybe you're planning to bring another human into your home in some other way. And you have a dog?
[00:32:32] If so, you'll want to tune in to our next episode eight, if you can imagine. And it's our final episode of the season. And then we're going to start season two. It's going to be fantastic. So our last episode, we'll explore what happens when your multi species family grows to include a new human and how you can set everyone up for success.
[00:32:57] From preparing your existing dogs for the [00:33:00] changes to creating a harmonious environment for both species and we'll dive deep into systems thinking to navigate this big and wonderful transition. Make sure you're subscribed so you'll be the first to know when it's live. And before we wrap up, let me remind you of resources available to support you as you apply what you've learned in this episode.
[00:33:21] First, don't forget to download the free interaction signal guide. It's a free resource to help you identify the subtle signs of stress and tension in your dog's family, and you'll find that in the link in the description below. For those ready to go deeper, patrons receive exclusive access to the system pattern tracker, a guided chart that helps you map and break reinforcing loops, uncovering powerful leverage points in your household systems.
[00:33:53] And here's what I'd love for you. If today's episode resonated, please take a moment to [00:34:00] like and subscribe. Subscribing supports our mission to keep adopted dogs in their homes and families and keep them thriving. So you can be a part of that. That could be your mission going into 2025. It's a win win.
[00:34:17] You stay connected to Practical Tools and we grow this movement together. Finally, let's keep the conversation going. Ask your questions or share your own multi-dog family experiences in the comments. I'll leave the first comment as a space for discussion and resources. So let's build a community of learning and support.
[00:34:39] Thank you for being here and your commitment to your dogs. Until next time, remember the system is speaking. So keep [00:35:00] listening.