Yo peace and love to everyone. Welcome to the Spears and Mike's podcast. I'm brother
Wattslice. We have Zulu King Just P. We have Zulu King L1. We have Zulu King Razor. And
we have a special guest Zulu King Fats. First and foremost, I hope everyone is doing well.
You know, and we would like to send a condolences because of our first episode at the end, you
know, we sent our well wishes to Fox Boogie out of the Bronx from the legendary MOP. And
we learned shortly after that she actually passed away. So we want to send condolences
to her family and everyone that loved her. And L1 mentioned before that she actually
was the first female shocker Zulu under Zulu King Shaka Bo. So we just want to do that
first and foremost. Anybody have anything to say before I continue?
No, you know, just resting peace to the sister. You know, I've seen her in some couple of
photos with some Shaka Zulu's and, you know, there isn't that many, you know, people that's
around from this that era right now since Bo passed, you know, a lot of Shaka Zulu's
kind of like not not disappeared, but they just not around like they used to be, you
know, assisted and help one of the great, you know, hip hop duos, you know, MOP to me
is one of the best, one of the greatest duos along with Smith of Wesson and some of the
other groups like MOP Deep. So, you know, she helped make them successful. And, you know,
that's how Zulu says that we're going to give love and honor and keep her name alive.
How about it? Definitely. So as a lot of us true hip hop heads may know, there's been
a lot of controversy since the 50th anniversary of hip hop. We have an individual by the name
of Tariq Nashi, for anyone who's not familiar. He's a film producer, activist and content
creator. He's known for hidden colors, which is dope. I suggest if you never saw it, you
need to go see it. It's very dope, very informative. He also did a movie about the Haiti being
Haitian independence. That's very dope too. But he has this organization called FBA,
foundational black Americans. It's anyone who has ancestry here. I think it's the first
three generations, if I'm not mistaken. And he actually came out with a documentary called
Microphone Chat, where he did some research. He's interviewed people and he's saying that
FBA, foundational black Americans, started hip hop and not the forefathers that everyone
is used to hearing like the Africa band bothers, the cool herks and the grandmaster flashes.
How do y'all feel about that? Well, me personally, I mean, I was first torn whether I even wanted
to watch it, but as a hip hop historian, I have to. So I'll be watching it. Personally,
for me, I'm finishing up another book. And one of the chapters, it's a book of misconceptions
and hip hop. And one of the chapters is tackling this issue. I started by saying as long as
I was in the nation, it was always blacks and Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans and blacks
pioneering. And of course, a lot of people at my job have kind of been, this has been
a big topic. Y'all right after these 50 years, people who are not really in the hip hop culture
like we are are asking me questions. They know, you know, what's going there, you know, where
I come from with it. And I was telling them, first of all, you know, what the hip colors
don't. But however, I learned no tell me what he needs in hip hop history. Perfect. I didn't
know he was this person until he just came into play. And I just feel like it's, he's
to me, another person who's not necessarily a part of the inner workings of the culture,
those of us who study culture live the culture. To me, I can still consider him somewhat of
an outsider or the type of a woodworker. What's his background? What's his background
on the culture? We don't know what he talked to. And I was telling you before, you know,
he talks big about being hip hop and loving hip hop. Had he ever been to a battle, a B-boy
battle? That's one of the most diverse entity, diverse events you'll ever see in the world
is a B-boy battle. It's everybody's name. You know what I mean? So, you know, I tell
people outside, I tell people, has Ta-Ri-Nash-Yi in them or even Lord Jamal. But that's his
heart. That's what I do. You know, I was raised in the knowledge under that generation of
Lord Jamal. But at the same time, I'm like, you know, really, you know, what's really
good? We know this story. We know what's really good. So, you know, I want to give everybody
else a chance to build on that. But that's really, that's personally my take. I feel
like Ta-Ri-Nash-Yi, no disrespect, as an outsider. Also, in hidden colors, he taught us that
we were the same people in the Western Hemisphere before colonialization. So, how do you grow
from teaching me that to being like this way hip hop? So, I want to see if anybody else
got anything to add on this.
Right. I want to say, what I want to say is exactly like, what are your credentials in
the culture? What, I don't want to just talk about your appreciation for rap music because
damn near the whole entire globe, black, brown, red, yellow, white love hip hop. You know
what I'm saying? Like they love the rap element of hip hop, the MCing, right? But like, that's
a great point. Have you been to a B-boy battle? Have you been to a DJ battle? Because these
events be having black, brown, red, yellow, white people. And you know what? A lot of
times, you know, I mean, every hip hop joint that I've ever been to, right, and I've been
Zulu almost 30 years, we ain't never judged somebody based on the hue or their complexion.
We judge somebody on their skills and their contribution to the culture. So, I never looked
at somebody and said, yeah, he's an MC, but he's white. He would be doper if he was brown
or black or whatever. I would say, no, he's a dope MC, period. If he's true to the culture,
I'm going to give him his just do. So, I'm for unity as a Zulu, right? We know this
is a culture that we created, and specifically, you know, the original man, right, created
this. And I've seen a brother from the 5% where he said, a brother from the 5% nation
of God, as the earth said, we don't separate the seeds. So this dispute and this, this
is laying what people are saying, you know, the black man created it. Well, we know that
the Puerto Rican man is also black. He's a part of the Asiatic. He is a part of the
being the original man, right? So I don't know where we're going with this, right? We're
unified on this front. We have all this information and historical matter that her is the father,
they embody the Godfather and Grand Master Flash, they formed the Trinity together. And
then we have other brothers like Disco King Mario, DJ Flowers and other pioneers that also
heavily contributed to the beginning of this. And now we're talking about Pig Meat Markham,
because he was rapping or something similar to that, that he's now I guess, what is he
the new Godfather hip hop?
He's like the first MC. He's like the first MC. Well, I've never seen a mural of him in
North Carolina or wherever he's from. I've never seen a mural of him in the Bronx where
hip hop originated from. And on the contrary, I've seen dozens upon dozens in the many years
that I've been in New York City, dozens of murals of Cool Herk. I mean, Cool Herk lives
on Sedgwick and Cedar, right on Sedgwick Ag where it's called hip hop Boulevard. You
know what I'm saying? So we know this is the source of the culture. So we got a challenge.
The thing that goes against what the pioneers are saying the pioneers were there. Not a
brother that's from Detroit respectfully.
The thing is, what I find interesting is that I didn't know he like like his organization
is the foundation of black American, which I didn't even know was a thing. I didn't
also know like even the term, you know what I'm saying? It was a thing. But the idea and
theory of it is definitely a thing. So if he comes from that like perspective, like one,
like it's interesting you said that he was talking about proven that everybody was like
connected somehow, I think back in like the motherland or something like that, which I
don't know if that I mean it could be. But I do I do differentiate in my mind to me,
the American slavery Harriet Tubman type of dude or black American, then the migrant
or the immigrant like the Jamaicans or the Asians, like somewhere where they'd be like
my country. And then where I can't I can't do that. You know, I'm saying my country is
like Huntington Long Island. So that's America, you know, I'm saying so I do I've always felt
that distinction, like growing up long before it was like now where it's an acronym and
all that and organization. So I think he which is crazy that he looks at hip hop from that
way because like on pygmy markham and cab Callaway or the Jamaicans that were chatting
back in whatever whatever that could be like argued that it was you know, I'm saying but
it's really Bam, Herk and but what was it called though? It was exactly that was it
called like pick the one in the Bronx. Yeah, I'm not I'm not what I'm saying is that that
could be argued. But the fact is, Bam is the one that coined the phrase or something like
that he's the master of the records. You know, someone else I don't I don't know it's either
the cowboy is the one who cowboy is the one who said and bam, coined the phrase. Right.
Right. That's the story. The phrase. Sorry. Now, I'm going to say I believe the phrase
was coined maybe like maybe a year or two later. Right. But that's still Bronx fucking
Lance Taylor and you're saying that's been who had the hundreds of records that was like
his thing he had the records. Herk had the system or whatever. And and flash is the technical
you know, saying he's the one that invented the scratch. But the crazy thing to me is
to an M is from the islands. Bam, Bam could be argued he's Bayesian, but you don't know
if his mom's or his mom's making notes on you know, and in her case, get a lot flash
invented the scratch or grand was it theater invented the scratch.
Grand was it theater invented the scratch. Right. Right.
It's fast.
Last created the mixer or the crossfader was already invented.
Yeah, he did the crossfader. Right. That's that's incorrect. That's that's incorrect.
That's incorrect.
It's not crossfading. The crossfader was already invented. Um, the grant. DJ D from the black
spades. He showed us the GL at the GL I 3800 mixer in 71 72 and had crossfaded. So here's
the discrepancy. This carousel here and about got everybody mixed up with this. Okay, Kara's
once said that he even the crossfader. That's not what happened. What happened was flash
went to a radio station on a field trip with his school. You know, he did electrician,
he was an electrical genius. He went to a field trip to a radio station. The radio
do have a queue. So flash was like, wait a minute, you can hear that before you play
it. He was like, yes, call it a queue. So flash went back and created a queue for his mixer.
Cues were on mix. He created one. His didn't have one. But because of his electrical genius,
he was able to put one on his mixer. So he already had crossfaders were already in. It's
the queue that we're talking about. And he for his mixer.
That's the technical thing that makes some part of the, the, the trinity to try and
veer. Right. But the thing is, to an M is West Indian. So it can't be foundational black
American, they're not African American or black American or whatever, you know what
I'm saying? Cause it started with them debating the term African American. Cause like, I'm
not African American. And I'm, you know what I'm saying? And I'm honestly not, I wouldn't
choose like, that's a whole nother thing. So that's like, that's like a topic. And to
me, cause I don't, I don't even know what you're talking about, but it looks like that's
this thing. And now he's trying to spin that with hip hop. Cause the truth is, like, it
almost can, it is what it is. Like people were doing what black people were doing. You
know what I'm saying? The Spanish people were doing what if they wanted to be hip hop, they
had the, the, the slang, the term, the dress, that's all from black people. It just happens
to be those, those top three, two out of three were Western. You know what I mean? There
was hundreds of them that contributed little pieces and not all of them were West Indian.
A lot of them were foundational quote unquote African American.
And then you know, you know, you just from Bob Williams as well. You bring him a very
interesting, you see, there you go. So I don't understand how he even has a can speak at
all cause he can't see himself out.
Like me personally, I don't, I say, especially with us knowing that we are, we are all one
people. The FDA thing I just found out about too, with, cause I'm on a hip hop educational
committee from off the D.S. And we was talking about it too. I didn't know nothing about
it either. Like you, to me, I like being with the diaspora myself. It's just because of
the history. So I don't want to separate America from the rest of the diaspora because we are
all, you know what I mean? So also, but see, so the smoke DJ, what smoke in the smoke
atrons? Okay. So heavily poo hit up in our meeting as she talked about DJ smoke and the
smoke atrons, right? Now check this out. He's not been mentioned either. He should also
be mentioned, right? So Rich Knight said that the original trilogy is not Hurt Bam and Flash
is hurt is Hurt Mario and DJ smoke and the smoke atron. Now check out what smoke is named.
His first name is the Mingas. So what does that mean? See what I'm saying?
That's so called Latino.
Exactly.
And that's also no foundational American, but that's a whole separate thing that black
people have to fix.
But that is she is debating, well, saying that Puerto Ricans and Dominicans were not
there, which is impossible.
And, you know, we're going to segue into the gang culture and, you know, and how that
really can upholstered hip hop. Because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have it.
And that's just the fact. And he don't know that because, you know, not for nothing, not
to disrespect him. He's a former pimp. He was pimping in Detroit, Michigan. So you don't
know nothing about what was going on, you know, in our city, just like we didn't know
what was going on in your city.
Exactly.
So people better stay in their lane. A pimp doesn't have to me like hip hop. That's not
hip hop.
Yeah.
And in the game, that didn't even an extended element of hip hop.
What's crazy is pimping is the lowest member of a gang in certain in those gangs in the
Midwest. The Pimp is the lowest member lower than the street soldier.
Wow.
So there you go.
You know,
And he thinks he's back there.
There you go. But not to disrespect him.
But no, we don't want to disrespect nobody but come with the fact show improved, right?
That's the error. That's the culture we come from showing through. We don't separate the
seeds.
Right. And we've been seeing these videos for a while now, like with the, you know,
that famous 1940 black and white video of the like a it's like a quartet, so called
FBA, whatever you want to call them, a quartet, and he appears to be rapping and he has actually
has grills in his mouth. He has a couple of go teeth in his mouth. And he's, you know,
what appears to be rapping, but was it called hip hop? You got that stuff like with them
break dancing in these earlier videos, but was it called hip hop? You know, were you
combining the MCing, the DJing, the b-boying and the graffiti and the knowledge all together
to call it hip hop? No, that's that's not what that is. That's separate things going
on at one time. And it's crazy because, you know, I see a lot of comments, hip hop started
in the South, no disrespect to the South, my grandparents are from the South. I'm from
Queens, New York. My grandparents raised me along with my mother. My grandparents raised
me so I have Southern manners and all of that. But a lot of these jazz musicians, a lot of
these poets that was in the South, it's a thing called the Roaring 20s and the Harlem
Renaissance. They had to come to New York to get off, to get their talents heard because
of the banning of the clubs and the alcohol. So they had to come to the Cotton Club to
get busy, Langston Hughes, Cal Cal, all these artists, Pigmeat Markham, who's the first
MC, right? He the first MC. He was in the Bronx. He probably was in Harlem, you know,
in his stuff out so people can hear it, right? So what are we really talking about?
Right. Well, one of the things too I try to tell people too is I tell people to watch
those posts because there's this thing going on called the Hip Hop Diaspora. So it's these
group of people that my sister Francesco was telling me about and they're trying to say
things like, so they'll do a post and they'll have that Russian guy dancing, right? That
Russian dude. Of course, the Russian move was used in hip and in break, no problem,
no doubt. But of course, now they're trying to say that that's hip hop. And like I said,
Caliway is hip hop and I'm like, well, no, because hip hop started at a certain time.
We have a date. Like you said, it comprises of various elements and I don't like how that
takes from the accomplishments of our ancestors. That was Lindy Hop. That was tap. That was
their thing doing their thing now. No, exactly. No doubt. There's definitely an influence.
You definitely see the moves from back then in the moves of the 80s. You definitely see
there's a metaphysical thing going on in between our ancestors and us with the dance. No question,
but it is definitely two separate entities or whatever. Hip hop is what it is in the
Bronx. Again, like I'll tell you the whole time, history is important. There's certain
key fact that geography is important in history. So Bronx, that's it. That's it. Bronx, nowhere
else. You know what I mean? As far as hip hop started or whatever, the time that we say
hip hop started or whatever, the environment of New York is critical in describing our
history, the environment, how New York, how the Bronx was. We all know that. So again,
for people to try to say, because there'd be a lot of posts like that, that'd be in
my feed that, okay, this is hip hop. It'd be like some old footage. And so it's confusing.
Again, because I'm trying to teach, excuse me, we will be teaching children through curriculum
in the future. There's no room for that kind of stuff in my personal opinion. We got to
get it right and exact for the babies. You know what I mean? So you know what I mean?
So that's pretty much what I'm going with that or whatever. But it's definitely a lot
going on. I'm glad we have this conversation. I appreciate the invite y'all. Thank y'all
very much for that.
No, we appreciate your energy and your wisdom.
I appreciate your expertise. Absolutely.
How do you guys feel about the change in the date of the anniversary? What are the anniversary
date?
I didn't even know they changed it.
What's going on?
You're talking about November 12, 1973 to the August?
August, whatever, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, so, you know, to me, I think both dates should be recognized. You know
what I mean? Like, because, right, I never, ever, ever, right? I've been going to Zulu
Anniversary since the 27th anniversary, right? And then things would have continued on with
the organization. We would have had the 50th anniversary, so called 50th, right? Because
even then, there's a dispute on the origin of the Universal Zulu Nation. The starting
date where we was taught in 1973, and it came into power either 74 or 75. Then there's those
that say that it actually started in 77 or 78, because, you know, and I'm not going to
dispute that. There's a lot of talk. Brother Raheem from the Furious Five recently touched
on that on the gangster chronicles. A lot of people have talked about that. Charlie
Rock himself from the Zulu Kings, one of the original B-boys, has also spoke about that.
There is a, there is a people challenging the start date, the founding date of the Zulu
Nation. But what we do know, right, is that the Black Spades were founded in 1968, I believe,
if I'm correct. So, to me, when I say like Zulu, to me, it includes the Spades. You know
what I'm saying? Because that's where we originate from, right? So, we know that there was a transition
period from when the Spades were in full function and full flow. And during the Vietnam War,
there was a change, right? What Black Benji are being killed. There was a change. There
was a lot of things going on in the Bronx, right? The Bronx was burning. So, if Zulu
didn't start in 1973 and it started in 1975 or 76, whatever it may be, so be it. Whoever
could show and prove it to be started at a later date, will recognize that. But we were
taught in 1973, so I'm going to continue to go on from there. A lot was happening during
those times. So, to me, it's like, Ben had, they said that they were doing the hip hop
anniversary from 1974. I wasn't alive back then. I don't know if they were or they
were not. I've seen flyers from I think 1976 or 77 was the earliest Zulu Nation anniversary,
right? It might have been the fourth or fifth anniversary or whatever, you know, something
along those lines. And it might have been the fourth or fifth hip hop anniversary. It
was always one year behind, right? So, if the Zulu Nation was celebrating its fifth anniversary,
then hip hop was celebrating its fourth anniversary. Because we've always had that timeline. When
the Zulu Nation turned 40, hip hop turned 39. But Herc has always had the 73 thing going
on. It's always been Cedric and Cedar, 1973. We, as Zulus, always acknowledged that that
Park Gym was the birth of hip hop to a degree. So, you know, why not? We could, I think we
could easily celebrate and honor both, you know what I'm saying? Because, I mean, you
know, Herc and Flash, they good. They were always kind of good, even though they may have
been a robbery, DJ wise, you know what I mean? So, you know, that's just my take. I'm okay
with both things.
Well, I know.
You know, I ain't gonna go back and forth and dispute it.
Yeah, I know we built a prism said that he found a flyer that said 77 was the first anniversary.
So, yeah. So, we're saying now that it started in 76. Jeff Chang and K-Stop won't stop stress
that Bam, his cousin, Soski was killed January 6th, 1975. Bam took a hiatus, according to
Jeff Chang, and later that year, that summer, he started the Zulu Nation as a dance group.
That's what Jeff Chang says. Rich Knight says he talked to Bam and asked Bam about the 73
thing. And Bam said, no, he said, I was thinking of the Zulu Nation in 73. Because, of course,
the 73, according to my research, that's when the organization started. That's of course,
when Bam is attempting to transition the black spades from the gang persona into a more,
you know, organized organization type thing. So, he starts the organization, I believe,
in 73 or the Bronx River. It became, it was either or not. You might be able to help me
with this order. It's the, you see the Bronx River organization first, I think it's the
organization, then the Bronx River organization, then the Zulu Nation.
Correct. Correct. Bronx River organization comes first.
Okay.
The timeline will be Savage Seven, Black Spades, Bronx River organization, the organization,
then from the organization to the Zulu Nation, Almighty Zulu Nation, Red Book Zulu Nation.
And you know, for us now, the Zulu Union.
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, that makes sense, right? The birth of something is the thought, right?
The idea behind it. You know what I mean? To me, that's the birth of something. And,
you know, always in the lessons, it always said, I believe 1974 or 75, it came into power.
So to me, when something comes into power, I guess that's when it came and hit the streets.
You know what I mean? Now, if that's a year or for year or two, you know, so be it. You
know, to me, it doesn't make a difference. I mean, I just wasn't there. So I can't dispute
it. I'm going to listen to the brothers that were there. You know what I mean? And if it's
valid and they think it's show improve with some facts, you know, who are we to dispute
the sad date? You know what I mean? But me, I'm going to honor November 12 1973, because
that's what we were taught. And I'm also going to honor, you know, you know, August 1973
for Cool Herk and Cindy's Jam. You know what I mean? Shout out to Cool Herk and a shout
out to Cindy.
Yeah, a lot of people ask me questions about like what's a chapter. And I told them we
would explain, but we will have to go back and actually explain what the universal Zulu
nation is. I would start it. And like I said earlier, the death of black Benji is definitely
pivotal in hip hop, you know, and the actual start of the universal Zulu nation. So L or
King Facts or whoever, if y'all want to elaborate on what you know, you can share with the listeners.
Word up. Well, as far as this is when I was explaining to people too about the black and
Puerto Rican thing in hip hop, it's best described by this by black Benji, yellow Benji. That
is a perfect description of hip hop for me. So you have a yellow Benji and a black Benji
who created peace, you understand, together in New York that was able to pave the way
to make the elements. Black Benji, I could set him the first sacrificial lamb in hip
hop, like one of the first Nipsey Hustle, if you will, you know what I mean? The one
who kind of, and for the ghetto brothers to mature instead of going to war with the
gangs, which is what most people would have done. That's a pivotal point to me. That's
very pivotal, even in the Rubble Kings where it was explained that they was about to go
to war. And then yellow Benji was like, look, karate child, let's go see black Benji's
mom. Let's go see Ms. Gwendolyn, make sure she's straight. And then when karate child,
it was like, you know, I'm a Gwendolyn, we got the army ready, but she was like, but
I thought black Benji died for peace. So that in and of itself is kind of to me a manifest
destiny of the culture of hip hop. If that doesn't happen, if they don't go talk to her,
you know what I mean? We might not even be here talking about hip hop now. So that's
a very significant point. December 2nd, 1971, which is when that popped off. Black Benji
got killed December 8th when they did the New York gang peace treaty or whatever. That's
a pivotal and crucial time. And I've been using that with people lately as the catalyst
as to this whole black Puerto Rican thing in hip hop, but a black and a yellow Benji
together in an organization, it doesn't get no more hip hop than that me as far as the
nationality is how hip hop manifested and who it's like even when I was taught, I tell
people when I was in the zoom of nation and being taught who did what by the elements,
no race did not come up. It never came up. It never came up. You know what I mean? So
I didn't know, you know, I didn't know, like, let's say, um, like Lee, like Lee Lee, 163rd
is when I found out about Lee, you know, the Bronx, when the Bronx versus graph writer
King, I didn't know. I didn't, I didn't matter. It didn't matter. That's not how I was taught.
Then I find out, then I find out who people are later and I'm like, okay, well, that's
and I can't tell a difference from what they look from. Well, black person and a Puerto
Rican person look anyway. You know what I mean? That's what I tell people all the time.
We put, I said, a spy, people don't rely on spies for a reason. As dark skinned as spy
is from the crazy commanders. He's the black Puerto Rican. What are we talking about? You
know what I mean? So I like using that. So that's kind of as far as black bingey and
his goal and his role. I really consider that to manifest that's near the culture. Because
once again, if that, if that doesn't happen and the ghetto brothers don't mature and,
and, and, and decide to create peace instead of war again, I straight, I straight, I feel
like we're not here talking and at no one since we're now here, I tell people this all
the time because I think I say the musical aspect of hip hop started in 73. The culture
ended itself started with the black spades, you know what I mean? And the ghetto brothers
both starting in 68. You know what I mean? Um, but these organizations and gangs or whatever
you want to call them, all of them have black, black, black, black and Puerto Ricans and
all black spades. And this is the part I read and I don't know about. You know what
I mean? And if you watch rumble kings, they had white gangs too. And in other parts of
the Bronx, you know, they definitely did. And white, white spades also. Exactly. All
whites didn't make white flight. All of them couldn't make it. All of them can wait. Mike
flight. So the one who was still in the box, they ended up. Yeah, that's a fact. That's
how people know something that I also want to say is, um, what's important to recognize
with the ghetto brothers in particular, right? Is the fact that these brothers were fed up
with the conditions of their community. Like they were tired of smelling the trash that
was sitting in the streets, the vermin, the rats, the mice from this, the trash not being
picked up. Right. And when these brothers started cleaning up their community, right,
I saw a video with karate Charlie and rest in peace to karate Charlie because me and
the brother, I'm not mercy on him. I mean, me and white had the pleasure of new nearest
dozens of phone calls between ourselves and karate Charlie years ago in our youth, um,
where he used to talk to us about things, right? You should talk to us about becoming
zoo. He became Zulu at some point. I don't know what year he joined the Zulu nation.
The brother became Muslim, but I saw a video karate Charlie, what he was talking about.
They were just fed up of seeing the junkies and the trash and they wanted to change. They
were ready to basically start the revolution. You know, them brothers wanted change. They
were tired of it. And this is important because when we have communities that's dealing with
self-destruction and brothers that were participating in that self-destruction have a thought in
their mind that they want to change and elevate. This is what Zulu is overcoming the negative
to the positive. They may not have been Zulu, but their ideas and their ways and actions
coincide with how we move. You know what I mean? They were the definition of overcoming
the negative to the positive. Fortunately, yes, like you said, like you said, King, he
was a sacrificial lamb. Like the brother got killed and it's terrible that he lost his
life. Rustin peace to Black Benji. Never, never forgotten. And he was just immortalized
with a street named after him. I didn't even know it because I wouldn't want to.
Back in April, back in April. Absolutely. For a lot of the listeners that don't know
what we're talking about, you can go and watch Rubble Kings. It's about all the gangs in
the South Bronx and it talks about the death of Black Benji. Black Benji was a leader in
the ghetto brothers out of the South Bronx. There's a clip. They used to do this show
where they interviewed gang members. Right. And Black Benji was explaining to the person
that interviewed him three weeks before his death, I believe. He was explaining how he
had just got clean. He had a drug addiction. He had just got clean and he stayed away from
the ghetto brothers until he got himself right because he wanted peace and he wanted to teach
the kids and protect his community. So he came back after he got himself together and
started putting the work in as far as protecting his community, keeping the drugs out. These
gangs were taking kids to school and keeping the drugs out, the drug dealers and the users.
You know, when you think of gangs, a lot of media puts a negative spotlight like we're
a bunch of misfits and I say we because we're all former gang members. So we're portrayed
as misfits, rebels without causes, you know, and they're not looking at the conditions
of some of us. And, you know, these brothers were really taking care of their community.
The only thing was with these gangs, they flew colors, which was at the time was a vest
saying on the back or on the front, they had patches like if you see the Warriors movie,
which is actually inspired by the death of Black Benji. The Warriors movie is inspired
by the death of Black Benji. They were wearing their colors and going through other towns,
through other territories rather, they weren't allowed to wear their colors. So that's where
the conflict would come. So, you know, as you know, brothers were allowed after the
ghetto brothers, declare peace and they no longer wanted to be recognized as a gang.
They were the only organization allowed to wear their colors through different territories
because they were about peace and they weren't about, you know, violence and they were about
protecting the community and bettering the community despite the circumstances.
And I saw a video, I saw a video with yellow Benji said, you know, when there would be
a problem right when they come through with their colors, right with their cut sleeves,
people walk straight up to the president of that gang and let them know now they're for
peace. Right.
You know what I'm saying? Right.
You know, then they would just let them, you know, march on with their colors. You know
what I mean? And that's, you know, that's, that's, that's legendary. If you really think
about it, these things were different back then. It was treacherous, you know what I
mean? So, you know, shout out to yellow Benji black Benji shout out to karate and the hundreds
of ghetto brothers that's probably alive right now that's forgotten about, you know what
I'm saying? Let's just not get flowers to the brothers on that past, but all of them,
all of them played a role. You know what I'm saying?
None of y'all did the work in vain. You know what I'm saying? And you know what, man, I
wish they were activated right now still moving on. You know what I'm saying? Because I think
that's in New York where we dropped the bull was a lot of, you know, because of hip hop,
right? Um, certain movements started to die out and I understand when people get older,
they fall back. We, us ourselves, right? We know what it is to have responsibilities
as fathers as husbands. So, you know, it's a different thing before we was, I mean, I
see y'all every day damn near we was, you know, bullshitting, you know what I mean?
We were telling all the time doing whatever for the organization, but now you know, it's
different. You know, we don't follow the time husband time, but you know, I just want to
say thank you to all the ghetto brothers, you know what I'm saying? All the black space,
all the savage nomads, all the savage shows, all those legendary organizations, man, because
I really wish New York had all of that right now. Tell you the truth. We will have a connection,
a true rich history that's stemmed over 50 years. And you know, I know the black space
is still moving. Don't get it wrong. I know the black space. I'm going to tell you like
this. I'll be honest, the black space to me is stronger than the universal zulu nation
right now in 2024. They're together. They're active. They're unified. You know what I'm
saying? And protecting the community too. And they're protecting the community. You
know, the reality of it is, you know, due to the circumstances, the zulu nation is not
what it once was. You know what I mean? Hence the reason why, you know, the zulu union is
striving and looking a bill. But you know, respectfully, we're all still here. We're
all striving. You know what I mean? And you know, it's a legacy that shouldn't be broken.
And we got to keep pushing this on the true zulu's, whether it's universal nation, whether
it's zulu union, almighty zulu nation, whatever you want to call it, we have to keep this,
the legacy, the story intact and keep on pushing forward towards positivity. That's the way
we have to do it.
Thank you.
I agree. I agree. I was watching a portion of Rubble Kings and I was reading the comments
on YouTube and someone said, like, if these young gang members had respected their politics,
like these brothers were when they were teenagers back in the late 60s, mid 60s, early 70s,
that it wouldn't be like this. But for you, for the ghetto brothers to be able to walk
through and so let's backtrack a little bit because I want to explain to the listeners
how a fight broke out, which resulted in the death of black Benji trying to break up a
fight. And you know, whatever I'm not going to say the gang, because there's like different
stories behind which gang was responsible, but he was unfortunately beat with a lead
fight that led to his death. They had a gang meeting, which is now known as the peace treaty
on Ho Avenue, peace treaty of Ho Avenue, where all the gangs met and the actual footage is
available on YouTube for those that want to watch the peace treaty where they actually
told the police, they told NYPD to leave or they would discuss nothing. So NYPD left the
meeting started off a little aggressive with a lot of finger pointing and blaming, but
ultimately they signed a peace treaty, they agreed on a peace treaty. So this allowed
all the gangs to frequent each other's territories without issues, right? And had that not happened,
in my opinion, we wouldn't have hip hop because a lot of these gang members were DJs and they
were spinning in different projects or having the park jams as they used to call them. And
if that peace treaty wouldn't have happened, they wouldn't be allowed to do that. And I
think the hip hop starting the way it did, it wouldn't have happened unless they had
that peace treaty. How do y'all feel about that?
Moving like men too, teenagers moving like men. Yeah, moving like men.
Like, you think you look at like, I like Tupac and Biggie for instance, they were young when
they died, right when they were murdered, right? They were only 20, 24, 25. Look at the 24 and
25 year olds now. Look at how they move and look at how they conduct themselves. Look
at Malcolm X when he died, when he was assassinated. Look how old he was, look how he was moving.
Look how the ghetto brothers was moving. Look how the ghetto brothers was moving. Look how
the spades were moving, unified militants. You know, like now these kids, they getting
hot. You know, they wearing these, you know, we're not even going to talk about the fashion
choices, but you know, they're not even mature enough. The food they eat. You know,
what they got the most famous for the price. Yeah. What I don't get about youth that's
in gangs, right? Like, these street organizations have a purpose, right? Street organizations
have a purpose. You join an organization for a certain reason because the history or what
they stand for aligns with your heart and your soul. So the youth join an organization
that has a natural rival and right, these youth be cool with the rival and then beef
within their own organization today in 2024. And under this is going on for a few years.
And I know it's sad to say that hip hop, they using hip hop as a tool for destruction, a
tool to beef with one another through drill music. And I don't want to single it out because
I listened to some of the foolishness at times and enjoy street music. And I don't want to
call drill foolishness, but just anything that's negative, right? I consider it to be foolish
because it's influential. Anything that causes influence and send some money down the wrong
path that could lead to destruction is foolishness to me. You know what I'm saying? And I like
music that street music. We all grew up on mob deep and all of that. But with these youth,
right? How do you befriend people that's supposed to be in a rival gang to your organization,
but yet y'all beefing amongst your own gang, own hood, own community. That's that to me,
that's that's the first thing that y'all got a remedy is fine unity and peace within your
own street organization. Find that. And then, you know, you can have unity with former rivals,
all of this is, is it's just ego and pride. That's the reality of it all. I've had plenty
of beef street gang beef, and it's all fueled by the ego, and it's all fueled by pride. If
you take away the ego and the pride, and I think I heard Prism Zulu King Prism shout out
to Zulu King Prism from chosen Zulu. He's the one that talked about all this ego and pride
stuff and really just kind of stuck in my mind. And I really thought about all the foolishness
that I've experienced in my youth. And I'm like, Yeah, that's it. Like we was all doing
it for to prove who's the strongest or who's the toughest. And you know what all that pain
and all that beef don't mean nothing now. Nobody even remembers it. Nobody talks about
it. So was all in vain. Because the opposition is still here. Everybody is still here. Who's
winning? Nobody. So it's crazy versus what what was taking place then. They was fighting
for a real cause. And now it's like what we fighting for popularity on tiktok popularity
on YouTube.
You know, I wanted to say something real quick. Going back on what you said, the whole thing
about the news when they joined gang, notice the difference between what Zulu Nation had
done compared to other street organizations or organizations based on negativity was
we pride ourselves in knowing our history, knowing what came before us in order to learn
what we do it now to build for the future. And you know, that also goes back into hip
hop as well where once I learned about hip hop, I didn't just learn and go forward. I
went back. So I studied, I learned what came before the era that I got into, you know,
but I also say that to say that a lot of times these youth, they're so lost in their history
because you have people that are joining gangs. And a lot of times the only thing they know
is Oh, I'm beefing with them because they either from this street or I'm beefing with
them because they wear this color. They don't even know the history of the beef. They don't
even know the history of the organization to know whether it was something based on
building up a community because once the leadership goes to prison or they're gone, they just
run them up because there's no one to keep them on a straight and narrow.
Great.
.
Thank you.
I'm just being addressed.
Pete had the privilege of watching the black space screening about two months ago and Harlem and we had the privilege of being up there with some of the legends piece to Charlie Rob piece to tiny from the black space piece to much Mitch blood green piece to all the original space man.
And I don't know if it was a honor to be around the originals and hearing their story and there was a brother guru and I don't know if guru is Rob.
According to the film they said the brother guru was speaking in there and he said he is the founder of the spades along with David Brockington and you know they passed it off to monk as the supreme president at some time and they also have some some members that were a part of the savage seven.
That was like I guess you know they according to them the savage seven yet did turn into the space but they never they never consider that to be a part of the spade lineage the spades were the spades although it derived from the savage seven according to what the movie was.
You know what I mean and what the brother guru said.
I believe it was one of the golden guineas what what was that the attack.
Yeah, the golden guineas right.
I believe the golden guineas. I don't know if the brother was savage seven or black spade or just you know a brother in the community but somebody was packed by the bar the golden guineas and that propelled them to start and activate the black spades.
They was tired of the you know the the oppression tired of the bullying the racism and I believe the brother guru was telling the story where when the brother got cut or whatever the spades went to go handle that they went to go fight and while they was fighting the golden guineas.
One of the one of the Italian mothers of the golden guineas was in the window saying kill that in.
You know so that's to show you the environment that these brothers was coming up in the full white flight.
They was dealing with some real racism that they were battling in addition to all the problems that were in the community of ready like so it was crazy times you know.
Yeah.
Well I gotta reach out to tiny but I believe the film that was presented will be in distribution at some point. You know what I mean but I know this was created by themselves.
And you know they had this I think about two or three screenings and magic Johnson Theater and Harlem and the last one that they did which was the last screening.
That was the one a couple of the Zulus popped out and we show respect and you know just to take in the story. It was legendary. I mean you know I left feeling so strong you know I mean to be connected to be Zulu is to be connected to the black spades.
You know we're carrying the legacy of the black spades and you know I know they're still moving like I said they're strong they're strong they are not over them brothers is still moving right.
But to me with the younger Zulus at that right so we're going to carry that story.
And the traditions you know I'm saying into the future you know we're going to teach the young Zulus we're going to teach the public to now we got this platform where we could reach the masses where they didn't have access to the true hip hop education and not to say that we're scholars we're
just young Zulus that been there and learn from the pioneers.
We don't know it all but we're striving to know as much as we can.
And we're striving to teach it to y'all and whatever we don't know we can get those that were there we can get the first hand info and we could possibly get them on here too.
You know because you're in touch with a lot of them and you know like you know we should go to anniversaries they love us you know they look like karate Charlie's dynamite right absolutely absolutely
The elder space really embraced us at anniversaries we got the opportunity to chill with them hang with them drinks and spade juice.
You know you got to say like a privilege you know I mean that you can share a drink close with them we wouldn't even worry about having to drink.
I ain't having it in a minute but when you first put up that post I was like.
You would have inspired though brother believe it you know because I was taking it all in and I was thinking about all of us you know what I'm saying who we are today two guys in 24 how all of that it flows through our veins.
Yeah because we're a branch of that tree you know what I mean we are from that family.
They should tell us that they should tell us that I am the first reason I am nothing but baby spades dynamite used to tell us that.
When we greeted the space we would do the same greeting as the zoos were so that's that's a connection there's a family connection a lineage that's connected and it'll always be honored.
I want to let y'all know to just started streaming again on podcast and then I did one on the I did one on the history or whatever and they were people were really intrigued with the black space talk a lot of people don't know about them.
So a lot of people were really intrigued with their story they had no idea you know boom when I'm just glad that they have something you know like something like her together brothers Jim Perry did back bubble kings they got a really nice production out of that so I'm glad that the black space
is what I able to put something together.
Who was it that you just mentioned?
You say Jim who Jim Kerry.
DJ Kerry from the living color.
Why will you look at I got a Robert King DVD if you want Jim Kerry is that going to produce that.
So did show the show.
He's the Amazon.
The Amazon system that he used to dress up.
You're a demyra.
Yeah.
You're a demyro.
Yeah.
Wow.
That was crazy.
Yeah.
And he back then.
That's crazy.
He screams me with that one.
Jim Kerry.
He must be in tune with the true hip hop culture.
He came under the wings.
They did.
That's true.
I hope.
No.
Don't come for Jim Kerry now.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah.
They did however say that Lance Taylor wasn't involved with the Zulu Nation at one point.
I guess when all the controversy they did end up putting that statement and then someone said that to me Saturday.
That they were that they wasn't claiming BAM.
And I told that person I was like that's not true because I told them about me going to the premiere and how I seen Zulu's there.
And I told them how there was Zulu chapters that I mean spade chapters in the Zulu Nation at one point and I can name a bunch of them.
But I mean that was interesting thing to run into though.
And I do remember seeing that.
King Charim.
And that's one of the on the on the Black Spades Zulu chapters because there's people that probably don't know about it.
There's there's probably a lot of Zulu's that don't even know because that was something in New York City where there was like.
Unsanctioned Black Spade members running around through the Zulu Nation that represented Black Spades in Zulu Nation.
As I was.
Yeah.
That went on in New York City.
Okay.
And I'm saying the whole thing we could stop on the elite and then it could turn into spades when it would be shut down and things like that.
Right.
But I mean just for that to be out there is like one of reminding me that.
There's just a lot of unsolved and on you know I mean.
Things that need to be dealt with.
And also I mean.
Again.
That's a tradition that we follow.
So it's just funny for that to be called in question at one point.
But I do remember around that time I do remember them seeing.
I guess obviously they've obviously recanted or maybe I'll grew that but I do remember them having that statement like.
There wasn't really a speed like that.
That's definitely.
That's absolutely.
He was a baby spade.
That's definitely.
Wasn't he a warlord at that wasn't he a warlord at one point.
And I was just kidding.
Just to give you the news.
Right.
He was he was at the he was at the gang peace treaty representative.
But the thing is people say so the president of the black spades I heard at that time was yeah was a person named Bam Bam.
That was a man right.
So that's how they got mixed up with people saying that he was actually.
Spades.
Right.
Because of Bam Bam.
I think DJ DJ clarified that on on an interview I was watching last night actually.
I think you mentioned him earlier King DJ D was it cool DJ cool D. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
He definitely mentioned Bam Bam and I mean we all heard Bam Bam's name throughout the years.
I met Bam Bam numerous times.
Right.
That's right.
You know.
Had to honor me and the brother.
Well spoken.
Humble warrior.
You know King.
You know.
You know sometimes you because like you said facts you get they say the black space which notorious people think that their savages know these brothers were refined.
These brothers have wisdom.
These brothers were warriors for their community.
So them brothers I mean Charlie Brock is one of the most intelligent brothers I know in the culture right when he speaks about the culture the brother has a PhD.
You know what I'm saying.
So these spaces intelligent brothers man and you know there's so many misconceptions man and I'm glad that we're able to clear some of them up.
You know what I'm saying.
Because if we don't tell the story who will exactly.
They will.
Yeah.
This is to me one of the most important parts of our culture and history.
Also the Casanovas of black space to write the Casanovas.
Yeah.
I think tiny was the president of the Casanovas if I'm not mistaken according to my knowledge.
And when they finally recruited them they talked about this in the in the black space documentary where the space kept on going to his projects and trying to recruit him.
I think they were already had the Casanovas right and they were like every day like you're ready to join.
He said no and then they have to fight.
Right.
Eventually he was tired of fighting and tired of running.
He said so eventually he joined and then he brought that in together.
Where those that don't know Grandmaster Cas came from that as well.
It's not mistaken.
Yeah.
Was he a man.
I believe he was a guy.
That's where the name came from.
That's why.
Wow.
Right.
That's dope.
Like three is really dope.
And it's really deep too.
It's dope.
It's deep.
It's rich.
It's powerful and all of that.
I love it.
You know.
I love it.
Absolutely.
And it's true as form though.
True as form.
And the true as form.
Not the stuff that people put out there for the world to think what it is.
Yeah.
I've been bringing that down to a lot of young guys at my job to try and explain what the culture is versus the rap music industry and whatever.
I tried to read in that history or whatever.
And I'm like, no, y'all, what you hip hop in its purest form is actually in the streets.
Right.
It ain't even willing to say that they really hold up for the tape.
It's about.
Right.
Absolutely.
The end of the day.
So yeah.
Unity.
If you love the culture, you know what I'm saying?
And you got somebody that's trying to break up unity and their message doesn't align with the message of hip hop.
It's peace, love, unity and having fun.
Right.
That's what the matter then.
That's what the principles are.
Right.
And if that doesn't align with that, then you got to question the messenger and what his motive is.
Right.
And you got to also take it from the source.
Right.
The pioneers that were there.
We're not pioneers, but we were taught by the pioneers.
We were connected to the pioneers based on our membership in the zoo nation.
Right.
So we got to hit a story's first hand from the brothers that lived it.
And now we're telling y'all what we've taken in and what we know based on our first hand experience and based on our knowledge, you know, the research that we've done on the culture.
Right.
But do your own research.
Hit the books.
Brother, what's your offstage book?
How can brothers get that?
Brothers and sisters, how can they get that?
Peace and blessings.
Right now it's about to go in stores and about to hit up another campaign.
But right now, Jason Kirkman on Facebook, Fats Kirkman on Instagram.
So all you got to do for real is DM me.
We'll exchange the cash happen all that and I will personally mail it to you.
You know what I mean?
So that's right now.
That's how you can get it.
I'll sign it for you and I'll mail it to you.
I'm also currently in the midst of a revised version, but I want to get it more out this version out first.
But again, of course, we're still finding the history.
We're still learning a lot.
So also another book I'll be writing called set in the stage, which would be a sequel.
And that's this other era that's coming up that smoke a trans era that 70 to 74 when a lot of other stuff was going on that has not been mentioned.
But yes, you can just you can DM me Jason Kirkman on Facebook and I will weekend.
We can go over the cat to stuff or whatever and I will put I will sign it and mail it to you.
So that's where we at with it right now.
So that's how I highly recommend the book to all those that want to learn about true hip hop culture and what led to true hip hop culture off stage.
I'm getting me one too.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It's the culture of hip hop before the elements and it's just an explanation of what the people of hip hop, not just the elements.
That's our artistic expression.
And yes, vital part.
But what were we doing as people when we weren't doing the elements?
And this is the best era of our culture and history.
You can find that information.
So yeah, man.
Man, that's dope.
Appreciate all your appreciate all your work and your dedication to the culture, man.
It's it's it's, you know, you're building a legacy and a body of work that's to be respected and remembered forever, man.
And I'm proud and honored to have you as our Zulu brother and also leading the way as a Zulu King for your area for your chapter for chapter 30.
So the flair order and so the flair natives, big salute, big love, big respect to all of y'all.
I appreciate it.
I just want to add on to this, man.
I really appreciate the Zulu, you know, you know how we do man.
You know, I know it's a new lamp.
Loss your visual.
Now it's black.
You know, it's a love, you know, I don't want to break your wisdom,
but you were talking about your.
You know.
Right.
You ready man.
We did however break away because it started on what is a chapter.
I just don't realize that.
And I'm with that back.
Oh, yeah, somebody had asked me what is a chapter.
So you want to you want to explain to the people.
I mean, I was explaining.
Okay.
I got you on spot.
And then you add on.
Okay.
So basically the chapter is a representative of a certain borough city.
And I'm not even sure I actually had questions about this because I always wanted to,
because we were Zulu nation at one point while we were called chapters instead of called tribes.
But that was a whole new story that I learned.
But basically, that's just how I thought I figured we were nation.
We had the whole African, you know, the whole.
I didn't ask that question for me, but I could never remember the answer.
Right.
You know, but um, well, I'll tell you this right from my understanding and I'm going to let you finish it.
P right.
The chapters were, you know, to organize each particular city area, neighborhood borough.
Right.
I believe basically, you have all these different areas, right?
You got to organize it because people got to be responsible in a certain area.
If you just got everybody is on the one umbrella and the Zulu's in a particular projects, whether it be Bronxdale or Monroe houses or sound view, you got to have organization.
So if we named ourselves the sound view Zulu's, right, we will probably wind up having beef with the branch members.
People pick chapters so that it's, it's away from the neighborhood because then it also might expand away from the neighborhood.
It's the same thing that I was told why shock is Zulu was started right shock is Zulu because of the neighborhood thing and the projects type of thing public housing, warren with each other.
You have some Zulu's that might have started in fighting a little bit, nothing too serious, just based on the history of the rivalry between certain public housing projects.
Right.
So they formed shock is Zulu to get the strongest and the toughest brothers and sisters in each chapter.
Bring those strong individuals together so that when you bring the strong ones together in shock is Zulu the force, the chapters will never have beef again, because now you just aligned the cream of the crop together.
Right.
So you don't have the young reckless ones acting up starting problems with another chapter when the top people in the chapter the strongest ones in the chapter are linked in a in a order and they're shock is Zulu.
The chapters were to organize these areas.
You know what I'm saying.
So that's that's what my take and what I was told.
You want to elaborate me.
I mean, I definitely agree with that.
From me just learning in my experience.
It's 15 people less 10, five to 10 is a division, but it's 15 people.
You meet twice a month you produce together.
And to me, I mean, I grew with that as my definition as a chapter.
I remember when we went to the leaders meeting, and I was meeting in Miami, right?
I was meeting.
Yeah, yeah.
And certain brothers would have like that's just how in New York, I and out of state people, they might have four or five official Zulu's and have like affiliates and things.
Like their network and that could be their chapter to so as as like an older Zulu now, I just kind of accept the two.
But as for me in mind, it's always been 15 people in 10 or less or so is like a division.
We used to have divisions amongst and that's just separating like someone and from my chapter has his group of friends in another area.
So they'll get like that at one point my chapter had about like seven different divisions.
But I mean, we were the chapter chapter 17.
I think the name from the word chapter is used just from the gang aspect of like New York at the time.
They're using chapters and things like that.
But that's really what it is.
As far as my definition.
Yeah, I like about chapter numbers right is the fact that when your chapter is named after your city.
Right.
I could be let's say from Brooklyn and say oh I'm from the Brooklyn chapter.
All right, you from Brooklyn but like, who is that what is that right when you have a chapter number.
Now you're saying something specific.
Right.
So me in particular, I'm a part of chapter 25 and actually I'm a part of chapter 25.
And actually the founder of chapter 25 right.
So when I bump into a brother that's in chapter seven like what or chapter 17 just be or chapter seven razor or chapter 30 for facts.
If I say I'm a part of chapter 25 right I'm not me right somebody else I'm a part of chapter 25.
Well fast say so what's up with L one how he how he doing right so they know who's who right.
If the brother can't tell you I don't know who L one is but he's chapter 25.
How do you know 25 25 right.
If I'm walking around saying I'm a part of chapter seven but I don't know Zulu King read the founder.
How could I be chapter seven.
How could I be chapter 17.
If I don't know King Lee or what he won Mike the two founders King bigs the most standard president in the chapter.
Right.
These are things like it's a way of organizing our organization which is huge around the world.
It's a worldwide organization.
But this will organize us into smaller groups and we know who's responsible and you also know the lineage of that person.
Like when we see the Zulu Gestapo we know we know maybe the public don't know that those are the ass kicking Zulu's those are the Zulu's not to be played with.
Right.
The G's.
Right.
They're linked to the lineage of the Gestapo's in those streets organizations that we mentioned.
Right.
The founders of the Zulu Gestapo.
Spider.
Right.
Was a baby spade.
So the dollar was a baby spirit.
They grew up with them.
Bada.
They came into the Zulu nation with him.
They brought in something from the street organization and they brought it into Zulu and it was kind of separate and it was ran as its own entity.
It's its own chapter.
It's its own movement.
It's its own entity within Zulu and it predates Zulu.
You saw all the ass kicking street organization members with the Gestapo on their best.
That was the force.
That's the fact.
Yo.
Remember when they wanted to make us a Gestapo when we was in chapter 18?
Somewhat.
Somewhere.
I think it was at the height of the whole MOB group.
Right.
That was a good time.
Obviously that beat pre to them that y'all will worry be of having the name Gestapo.
That's a friend.
You know what I'm saying?
We say Gestapo has nothing to do with Germany or Nazi.
It was just the tough MFers and the street organizations.
They were not to play with.
Right.
And if you listen to Black Star, what's that song?
The definition?
Zulu.
No.
Not that one.
Standing on the top with the Zulu Gestapo.
Right.
Most duff.
And that's the word chat.
Zulu.
Gestapo.
Zulu.
And that's another thing.
That's another thing about the whole FBA thing.
Like these gangs have war chants too.
So is that technically rapping?
Is that not MCing to a certain extent?
You know what I'm saying?
Because when you watch the education of Sonny Carson and they about to go to war after they
left the wolf and the leader, the lords had the meeting before they fought, they were
chanting.
Both sides were chanting.
So these gangs had war chants.
Oh yeah, the Black Spades.
They used to go to, what was it, the Tonal with John Brangles and DJ?
They used to say Spades Power.
You know what I mean?
Instead of soul, they used to say Spades Power.
Right.
Yeah.
And they had to call it the wild.
Yeah.
And you all had that Foxy Brown song that, that, that, that used to let that Foxy Brown
and the little West Indian song one day.
But yo, the thing is that you keep bringing back, I do, right?
Whoever with the FBA.
Like a couple years ago, yeah.
A couple years ago, it to me, it kind of started with, like they used to get out Puerto Rican's
for using the N word.
And that was like a whole thing with Fat Joe using the N word and all of a sudden.
Right.
So now I think, I think it's an easy way to get out that way.
Hip hop because Black and Brown people are kind of more influenced when, especially when
you use like hip hop or something that relates to them.
So I think it's an easy way using hip hop to just get his thing, his point of view across.
Get a platform.
Because this is a trickle down to hip hop because out of nowhere, it's before a couple
years ago was Puerto Ricans using the N word and out of nowhere, it's where were they.
And then I seen it's and it's based on a technicality because in one way, when Loja
Ma is talking about it, he's right because it's three years later when Charlie Chase
or whoever, you know what I'm saying?
Got involved, he says.
And that's three years, but it's three years.
It's still the same time frame.
So sometimes to me is just semantics against to get a platform.
And it's kind of easy just to stick and move with hip hop.
And it's also easy to stick and move with the short end TikTok era where it's click
B. That's an easy click thing right there.
And then boom, Lord Jamal hasn't been rapping since been rapping, but he's been able to
sustain because he's doing things like this and this is just another four or five months
and people like that.
Like you got your man that you're referring to.
I don't even know him, but that's his entry or it's.
You know what I'm saying?
And Lord Jamal is Lord Jamal is Lord Jamal saying he's FBA now or he's allowing technically
but he said he's FBA.
He did say.
Yeah, but he said he doesn't.
He said that's down the line.
I've recently heard him say technically he is FBA.
He's in the documentary.
And that's like a pick and choose battle.
Like how it's like a pick and choose because he technically is if he's African American.
If he was if he was African American with Arthur Ashe and and February black history month
and church on Sundays and that's black.
And as as like as like a younger person almost a child, I remember seeing them kind of debating
on the term black like they it was black.
It was Negro American and then they argued in debate and now it's FBA, which to me is
probably because I'm not to me it defines where I can't be like my country or I can't
be like, you know, shut up.
I'm so and so.
That's not me.
I'm black even when I can't be black.
You know what I'm saying?
So when people ask me like I'm around Spanish people that all the time where it's all Spanish
and I speak Spanish or other even West Indians or anything like that.
That's darker skin.
The reason why they didn't want to use the color because there are people from other
countries that are the color.
So they didn't want to use that term.
They didn't really agree with saying black because black can be Dominican Haitian, which
is fine.
But when people are distinction, they want distinction.
Right.
And did you see cam talking about he's black American was the bet.
He didn't even know foundation.
He wasn't even up on the FBA.
He was just like, I if I went to the Olympics, I'd be black American because I'm black and
he American, you know what I'm saying?
I'm kind of for black people to be American because it's but he's really American.
You know what I want to see?
I want to see the 5% is addressed this because I see online social media.
They've been saying we don't separate the seeds.
Because you don't.
They don't separate the seeds.
You don't at all.
But you do it understanding because like for me like and I do this with my kids and my
program, a lot of them kids be African and they'll come and then they'll use the slang.
A lot of people do that.
And it's like, like me, I'll be around Spanish people and I'll be of the culture, but I'm
black.
When people come to me about one person be like, what kind of black are you?
And I'll be like, the black that you don't like the black that I'm not black and they
immediately get that.
Immediately get that.
And it also shows me how they think.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, but as far as hip hop, that's just a way because one, one, his name is not even
like it's not even FBA sounding.
It's sounding like like Muslim or something.
Actually, that name is an Arabic name.
Which is fine.
That's an Arabic name.
Right, which is fine.
But he that's not that's not like Clarence from from the AME church or you know what I'm
saying?
No.
Jackson or which and that's my car.
You know what I'm saying?
So like, that's a whole thing and he just pick and choose where to get or he's fixing
and that's that.
Yeah, like, and they don't want to address this.
That's why.
So they pick hip hop, which is the symptom, but they don't, but they, that needs to be
because you're just going to get around.
But then again, you might not get around because he's getting what he wants.
So he don't really, it might never get solved and he could just keep rocking.
You know what I'm saying?
Well, the documentary got got banned.
The documentary got taken off of Amazon by Joe Conzo, who is for those who don't know
Joe Conzo is a Universal Zulu nation member.
Photographer.
Hip hop's first photographer.
Yes.
He's known as hip hop's first photographer and Tariq Nishid was using his photos.
He was using his images in the documentary.
So Joe Conzo, you know, he'd been around from since day one.
So he's like, no, I went to school with the Coke.
He said, I went to school with the cold crush brothers.
I was serious.
I was at the park jams.
It was always black and brown, which you're saying is incorrect and you're using my stuff.
So let me get this taken off.
I like that.
See, now me Lord Jamal to me is getting, he looking for again, as far as I'm concerned,
he's responsible for last success.
That's why Lord Jamal.
You know what I mean?
Right.
So when he, again, it's just another way for him to jump on.
Like you say, he's rounding years and I've been telling people all the time for the people,
you know, like a man, Francesca, she's Italian.
She's in the hip hop educational community.
Of course, people who are not black in hip hop, they have a real issue with Lord Jamal.
But I try to tell what number one, y'all, Lord Jamal, that is his market.
That is what he's always done for one.
So I tell people that you want to meet with number two.
I also tell them that again, when it comes to his hip hop thing, like King L once said
earlier, a lot of people, especially my people, no disrespect, they harp on the right part.
So if you want to discuss hip hop, graffiti and breaking those two elements, I'm sorry.
That's black and Puerto Rican.
And then whites was doing graffiti too.
Even though a lot of whites who were doing graffiti, I've learned don't really want to associate
themselves with hip hop as much.
I've noticed that.
I mean, personally, as far as the black thing, because I studied a little bit under the more
science temple, did a little bit of civics with what they call it, what you call it in
the private sector or whatever.
So black is a color of law or whatever, we're not really black people.
It's kind of something that was kind of given to us as a title in the first place or whatever.
So I tend to not subscribe to that.
And like I said, again, I'm not necessarily with the FBA thing.
I'm a diasporatic.
So I learned personally, my personal information, I like going as far back as I can.
And I like, we are a people of unity.
That is a divisive move to me.
No disrespect.
And it weakens us as blacks in America too, in my opinion, it separates us from a lot of people.
You know what I mean?
So I just think it's a vice and it's something I'm starting to think no disrespect.
Tyree Natshige, I'm starting to think he an agent, yo.
Hang on in front a little bit, man.
He could be.
He's the team.
He moves.
He's moving like an agent.
He's hanging on in front of you.
Yeah, he moves like an agent.
You know what I mean?
So he be on Vlad too.
He goes on Vlad too.
Right off.
Right.
So we need, I'm thinking, I just think we need to keep our eye on the brother personally.
Yeah.
So this is a dope build, man.
And I appreciate your brothers time, energy, wisdom, you know what I mean?
It was dope.
Yeah.
And we'll definitely be having you on, you know, you know, again and again, brother,
we're looking at you for your wisdom, your energy.
And I appreciate it.
I'm gonna start having all my joint too.
I'm gonna get my numbers up.
I'm gonna start having y'all on my joint too.
So that's how we're gonna do it.
Let's do it.
Yeah, let's go.
Yes, sir.
Right.
Let's know, brother.
We'll do it, bro.
Appreciate that.
Yeah, man.
All right, brothers, man.
So yeah, you know, we'll keep on.
We'll catch y'all.
This is episode two of the Spheres and Mike podcast with our special guest, Zulu King Fats.
Go get that whole stage book.
Holladam, Fats Kirkman on IG.
I got the book.
It's incredible.
You want to learn hip hop culture?
Get the book off stage and tap in with the brother on switch.
Him and his queen, they doing a lot for the culture.
Tap in with them.
You heard.
Appreciate that.
I got any questions about today's episode?
Where can they reach you?
Where can they reach us around?
They can reach us on the email for Spheres.
It's Spheres and Mike's.
Spheres with a Z.
Mike's with a Z.
Spheres and Mike's at gmail.com.
Any questions hit us.
We'll address it in episode three.
No questions is off the off the table.
Yo, we didn't know.
I mean, we're giving you the real.
We need t-shirts.
Yo, that's Spheres and Mike's crazy, son.
We need a t-shirt.
Yeah, man.
Yes, sir.
You know, eventually someone that's the spear is going to hurt somebody.
You know, words of weapons.
Well, we're going to stand on the truth.
You may not like, you might not like the truth.
Sometimes we're going to give it to you.
You know what I mean?
Because we're going to stand on a warrior spirit.
We ain't going back down from giving you the truth.
I mean, you're indeed.
Well, appreciate our brothers, man.
And we're going to build keep it building.
All right.
Peace.
Peace to the kings.
Peace to the queens.
Peace.
Yo, just give me a couple minutes so we can upload.
You heard?
Yes.
Peace.