Alex: This Week on Hot Couple Chronicles
Russ: Let's talk about some things that a lot of guys don't necessarily
talk about or wanna talk about.
A little bit uncomfortable 'cause we're, you know, men and we don't have feelings.
As men, we will take opportunity over attraction almost every time.
Every time.
Rob: One time early on we had gone to a party and there was a woman
who was a beautiful woman and I asked her if I could kiss her.
'Cause I'm always about consent.
You, may I kiss you?
Yes.
And she said no.
And that, that bruised me hard early on and I was like, okay,
you know, I'm, I'll move on.
That's fine.
And I kind of, you know, went off into the corner and I was,
you know, Hmm, she won't kiss me.
Okay, fine.
and I got in my head about it.
Well come to find out later on.
It was a different, it was a different situation.
She couldn't kiss me 'cause she was in a Dom/sub environment.
And she asks, needs to ask approval for that.
And I didn't know so good for her.
Russ: Blood's going everywhere else, but our cocks.
Yeah.
Is what it boils down to.
Welcome to Hot Couple Chronicles, a podcast exploring the swinging lifestyle.
Our discussions may contain explicit content and adult themes
intended for mature audiences.
While we strive to offer valuable insights and entertainment, please be
aware that the views expressed are based on personal experiences and opinions.
We encourage listeners to approach the content with an open mind and to
prioritize communication, consent, and respect in their relationships.
Remember, everyone's journey is unique, so take what resonates
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Thank you for joining us on our adventure.
Russ: I am Russ.
And as you can see, this isn't Ashley.
I'm here today with Rob who's, with Anything But Vanilla.
We co-host events at Trapeze every third Friday of the month called Fresh Fridays.
Hopefully a few of you have come out to see us.
If not, come check us out and without further ado.
Rob, I'm glad you're here.
Rob: Very glad you're here.
Well, I guess I'm glad I'm here.
We drove up to their house this afternoon to, to have a chat with them.
Like we don't talk enough anyway.
Right.
But on camera this time.
So before we go in to more what we're gonna talk about, let's
hear more about what you guys do for people that don't know.
Sure.
So Lindsey and I started anything but vanilla.
Not too long after we got into the lifestyle.
We said, oh, we should have.
An Ls name as everybody has which then quickly transformed into
an educational and advocacy type platform for us as we went through our
progression over the last couple years.
And we had started a podcast a couple years ago and let that kind of go,
uh, for a little bit while we were working on events and traveling
around and doing some other stuff.
So.
Our podcast is back out now.
Uh, we just did our first episode and there'll be some more, uh,
coming up nice and easy enough
Russ: it's anything but vanilla.
It is, say Ashley and I listened to it on the way up here this morning.
That'll be the second listener.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Appreciate that.
You're welcome.
Uh, right now, I'm gonna work with you on getting into, on all the platforms, but
right now it's on YouTube and Spotify.
Yes.
Yep.
So just search anything but vanilla.
You have a website as well, right?
Yep.
Anything But Vanilla dot life, right.
But.
That being said, now you know a little bit about what you guys do.
Let's talk about some things that a lot of guys don't necessarily
talk about or wanna talk about.
A little bit uncomfortable 'cause we're, you know, men and we don't have feelings.
Rob: Yeah.
We could sit here and stare at each other and not talk
and be in about three minutes.
Yes.
That's like, how you doing, bro?
Yes.
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Rob: So let's start with attraction versus opportunity in the lifestyle.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
So as we both know, and a lot of you guys know, there are some amazingly
gorgeous people in this lifestyle.
Sometimes we don't have the confidence to talk to them.
Sometimes.
I mean, I think really that's the biggest one is we don't have the con, like we,
there's no way they'd be interested in why would anybody talk to me?
Right, right.
We, as I ride Lindsey coattails all the time.
Oh, same with Ashley.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She, yeah, she's my open door.
She's the best wing person I've ever had.
Yeah.
She's better than every wing, any other wingman I've ever had.
But then there's also the side of it of.
Since, you know, this person would never even be interested in me.
I have an opportunity over here.
I'm necessarily attracted to this person, but they're a nice
person and you know, it's, yeah.
What's your take on that?
So it, yeah, at first it was, uh, pretty difficult.
I didn't want to stand up and talk to somebody who I
felt was way outta my league.
And eventually what I learned was that everybody's putting their pants on the
same way and taking 'em off the same way.
They want to, they're there for a reason and a lot of them.
Want to meet somebody that they wanna connect with.
And a lot of women I found, and I know I'm generalizing,
so if this is new, that's fine.
I found out that they are definitely more of a connection
person, less of a looks person.
Obviously they want things like hygiene, some other stuff, but
they'd like to see confidence and they like to see personality.
Russ: Uh, and it took me a while to learn that.
So, yeah, you, you have some gorgeous folks that, um, you have an opportunity
to connect with, but you don't because you're quietly sitting in the
corner and you're nervous about it.
Like a high schooler sitting on a, the wall.
Right.
The prom.
Yeah.
So it brings about, like it brings back those emotions from when you
were in junior high and high school.
Yeah.
Like it brings those nerves back that we've hadn't had to deal with in
decades, but they still live there.
'cause you didn't learn anything different.
Right.
So I had a good friend of mine, Jim Vance, who pointed out who, he's a, he's
a life coach and a men's coach, and he does a lot of work with a lot of people.
Rob: But he pointed out that our emotional intelligence stops.
At age six.
Unless we do the work ourselves, it's life experiences that bring our EQ up.
Okay.
But we've all seen it where men have, their temper tantrums.
Like we've both seen it.
I've done it.
Yeah.
And that's just.
At that moment, we didn't have that emotional intelligence
to deal with that situation.
Now, after we get through that, we process it and we learned from it.
But yeah, he said it was like six or eight, I forget the exact
age, but it was really young.
Pretty damn young.
It was PR really young and that pre boner and yeah, for sure.
Russ: And I, when he told me that, it really made me think about a lot
of the situations that how I've dealt with things, how I've seen other
people deal with things good and bad.
And I think that's a big one, is we fear rejection so much that it's
such a hit on our ego that nine times outta 10, and again, generalizing.
As men, we will take opportunity over attraction almost every time.
Every time.
I absolutely, and sometimes that throws our couple balance off.
Yes.
Because I'm looking at it from an opportunity perspective and their
opportunity there actually becomes an attraction for me because now I've
opened up, I've let down my guard and I can talk to the person that
Rob: attracted to for the opportunity, but it's not necessarily and I don't
want this to sound wrong, but it wouldn't have been somebody else
that I might have gone across the room for 'cause I was too afraid to.
Right.
So they're not necessarily the socially acceptable.
A really hot person.
Right.
But as we talk to them and get to know them as human beings,
they get so much hotter.
They get very hot.
Oh my gosh.
They're like, and at the end of the day, they, they really are just fantastic.
Fantastic.
Like, like I never even thought this could have been possible hot.
Right.
Yeah.
One time early on we had gone to a party and there was a woman who was a beautiful
woman and I asked her if I could kiss her.
'Cause I'm always about consent.
You, may I kiss you?
Yes.
And she said no.
And that, that bruised me hard early on and I was like, okay,
you know, I'm, I'll move on.
That's fine.
And I kind of, you know, went off into the corner and I was,
you know, Hmm, she won't kiss me.
Okay, fine.
and I got in my head about it.
Well come to find out later on.
It was a different, it was a different situation.
She couldn't kiss me 'cause she was in a Dom/sub environment.
And she asks, needs to ask approval for that.
And I didn't know so good for her.
She's That's fine.
I didn't understand that dynamic.
And so it bruised me from a male ego perspective and a
confidence perspective right.
Russ: At that point.
So, and now I understand it going forward.
Right.
But also I, that has a couple points to it.
One good for her for holding her boundaries.
Right.
With her partner and not worrying about your feelings 'cause that's their
boundaries and what you feel like.
That was great.
Isn't her problem, right?
Yeah.
In hindsight now I know.
Like I know all that.
So that's one thing we've always said is you can't be afraid to
hurt someone else's feelings.
Especially something as simple as a kiss.
Mm-hmm.
Once that, once you cross a boundary that brings, like with your partner,
that's trust, that's, you know, dishonesty that, I mean, it's a big deal.
Rob: So good for her.
And then, but then.
You got all your feelings because you felt rejected.
Yeah.
And didn't know the situation.
And it was early on for me too.
So I'm already trying to build confidence and then I hit this hurdle.
Yeah.
So I've had something similar.
It wasn't necessarily that it was, but it was, I asked to
kiss a woman and she told me no.
But it was because that was, they were a no kissing couple.
Right.
And which is, if she tells you that, that's great.
And, and she, and that and real like, I didn't feel bruised.
'cause that's how she kind of worded it.
She's like, oh, we don't kiss.
That's how she worded it.
Yeah.
Like, Okay.
Like cool.
And we kept dancing and having a good time, but, right.
Yeah.
So as long as, say bring up.
Boundaries.
One, it's not your responsibility to know her boundaries.
Right, right.
Yeah.
It's like you, she should be sharing you.
That's why we ask.
But it's not we, that's why we asked for consent because we don't
know the other person's boundaries.
Russ: Correct.
So there's that.
Two, good for her.
Good for you for asking consent.
Good for her for holding the boundary.
And then it brought up this whole different dial ogue between everybody.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And it, it took a while for me to understand what was going on.
Yeah.
So, you know, I'm kind of like, oh, wow that sucked.
Rob: Like go to the next party.
I'm like, I'm not asking anybody anymore.
It's like, I'm just gonna go hide in the corner and Lindsey can have fun.
So I leave, like I've created kind of situations that could cause those
emotions to people in group situations.
Because, so for example, last time we did any group play, and all the guys, you
know, taking their clothes off, this and that, and everybody's starting to migrate
to the bed and they were starting to kiss.
And I'm like, whoa, everybody.
And everybody's like.
You know, everybody perks their ear, like, thinks something wrong.
I'm like, no.
I'm like, this is cool.
I just need to know if anybody has boundaries that I don't want to cross.
What are everybody's limits?
What are everybody's boundaries?
So I, I don't want to unintentionally cross one and make it cause any drama.
And everybody was kind of taken off by it at first.
And then it, everybody started kind of talking about it like, well, like
we're, it was a group and we're all pretty comfortable each other anyways.
Yeah.
But it was, no butt stuff.
Cool.
That's a boundary.
Yep.
That is a boundary.
Like cool.
And then.
That was really like we talked about protection, stuff like that.
And, but by me doing that, I open the door for say a woman be like,
yeah, so I only wanna play with this person, this person, and this person.
Right.
Everybody not included.
'cause there was.
12 people in that room that there's a lot of people that could have got
their heat feelings hurt, right.
Because of that.
Right.
And but again, it's their responsibility to deal with those feelings, not
the persons that has the boundary.
Right.
And they shouldn't feel bad about that either.
They shouldn't feel bad about it.
Absolutely.
And that's somebody that's kind of owned what we were talking about just before
was the attraction versus opportunity.
That's somebody that puts attraction over opportunity.
And they may have other reasons too, and they might have other reasons.
There might be something they might had a bad experience with somebody
in the room, or they wanna make sure they, they have the three people
that they've been wanting to be with.
Yes.
And they know they're gonna tap out at some point.
We have really close friends that do group play in private settings
only with people they already know.
Right?
Like everybody talks and they'll say like, we don't do orgies.
We don't do orgies.
They'll tell everybody, we don't do orgies.
We don't do that.
No, they do.
They just don't do 'em say in public because he is worried that something's
going to happen to her so much that.
And he doesn't wanna get arrested.
Basically.
That's it.
He's like, if somebody does something wrong to my wife, I, I don't want wanna.
It might get violent.
Yeah.
And he's like, that's why we only play with people we're comfortable
with this and that, yada yada.
I'm like, right.
Get it, man.
That's why when in say a party setting and they're there and they'll say,
we know we're going to an orgy.
That's in a public room, they're not gonna be there.
Just know it.
They just know it.
They move on.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
They might go to bed, they might keep partying, they might do whatever.
We'll probably connect later, but we know they're not gonna be there.
Right.
And uh, but yeah, that's one of their things.
They don't do any public play ' cause they're worried, he's worried about,
he's worried about in case somebody they weren't really familiar with
does something that he wasn't that.
Or like, we've been in situations where single guy just kind of walks up and
starts, you know, touching on somebody's, and somebody's gotta police that.
And, and then he might not like that.
We, we police it pretty well.
Yeah.
As soon as somebody sees it, like, whoa, like, did somebody
say we, you could touch?
Right.
You know, we'll, we'll stop it immediately.
But he's a very emotional guy, put it that way.
Fair enough.
And that's his prized person.
And he is afraid that if something like that happens that he
won't, he's protective of it.
Yes.
Understandable.
Yes.
So let's use that as a segue.
So talk about guys in group situations, anxiety and performance.
You know, yes.
What, what does that look for you?
For me, if I get distracted or anxious, I have trouble.
I get performance anxiety.
I do like, I can't.
Get or stay hard period.
Yep.
Um, I have to, you know, either move myself, calm down, ground
myself, and I can return.
Sometimes it takes a little bit of help from medications.
Mm-hmm.
Tried numerous, and they all work for me.
I've had prescriptions for just about every, just for performance anxiety.
I call 'em my swinger insurance.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Because part of my ego.
Is one, you don't wanna be that guy.
No one wants to be that guy.
Nobody wants to be that guy.
Russ: Two.
So I've had a situation where that we were, it was, I think there was
three or four couples in a room, and there was a really big crowd watching.
I got in my head the first time you look at that crowd, all I got in my
head changes, everything was great.
It got in my head and.
I lost everything and what didn't hurt really hurt my ego
because I knew what was going on.
I've dealt like, I've already processed that.
I'm like, I'm good.
What bothered me the most is how it made the woman I was
with feel, because she thought.
She automatically assumed it was because of her.
I'm like, no, that's not, she's, and she like, and I tried to reassure
her like, that's not the case.
I'm just in my head that's not, she's like, happens to me all the time.
It's okay.
I'm like, no.
It's like, stop that.
No.
But yeah, she just automatically assumed it was because of her.
I wasn't attracted to her, which wasn't the case.
It's just, but.
And I think a lot of women have been in that situation as well.
And I was like, I have no, they can hide it differently and I, I don't mean hide
it, but they want to enjoy the situation.
They can enjoy the situation, but they may not be as turned on
as they were when they started.
Um, yeah.
And, but we won't know.
Yeah.
They know when we are not, when we're, it's not that we're not turned on,
it's we can't perform, you know?
Yeah.
We're in our head about.
Blood's going everywhere else, but our cocks Yeah.
Is what it boils down to.
So again, one of the last orgies Ashley and I were in, she called me out.
She brought me back, which is kudos to her for recognizing it.
'cause I was with Ashley when it started.
Mm-hmm.
And we were having a, I was having a great time, but then there is
so much going around on, I'm like, this, your head's on a swivel.
And I'm just like, what?
And she's and Ashley, she's, and she's like look at me.
Look here, here.
Focus.
I'm like, I'm your partner right now.
Kay.
Because there was, I mean, there was people walking by, there's this
person over here doing this, this, I mean, there's so much going on.
It's group play is very overstimulating and she caught me at the perfect
moment and brought me back and we.
I didn't have any issues after the fact, but after she did that, 'cause
I could feel myself like, okay, like, okay, you're in your head now.
Yeah.
And then she, kudos to Ashley.
'cause she brought me back and she's like, focus.
She's like, you're here with me.
Stop focus here.
You know?
And then we did that.
And then we, took a quick like couple minute break.
I had a sip of water or whatever before, and then we kind of
started mingling with other people.
Like it was the perfect, just kind of a reset.
Yeah, it was really just like a reset and it was like, okay, we're good now.
Like I'm good now.
But yeah, I've had the situation where a couple times.
And that's the only reason why I started experimenting with this
prescription say Viagra, Cialis, Trimix.
Those are only three I've really, those are the big ones.
Yeah, those are the big ones.
Those the ones that I've had prescriptions for.
But that's the only reason I got into those, started looking in 'cause
when we're in private, I have zero problems.
Zero problems myself.
Yeah.
Private.
It's usually even if it's like just another couple zero problems.
Yeah, it's usually the group situations.
And uh, the very first time I had a problem was a group situation where it was
like, things are going along swimmingly.
And Lindsey right there at my shoulder.
She's like, yeah, I like what's going on here?
You know, I'm with another woman.
And it was like, woo.
Like I have no idea what just happened.
You know?
There's like three or four other couples in the room.
Yeah.
Everyone seems to be excited but me right now.
Yeah.
And then that was that.
And then Lindsey and I went back to the room and, you know, we were able to.
Finish or erectify the situation, rectify the situation for both of us and move on.
Absolutely.
Uh, and we have done the same thing.
Uh, I've, uh, tried both cls and viagra and they um, ahead of any situation
at this point, just to be sure.
'cause I don't know if it's gonna be a group situation or not.
Uh, I don't normally need it if it's just she and I or if it's
just another couple, whatever.
Uh, I just want to be prepared.
Yeah.
In case it's a very, so I always have.
Sit.
A big situation where there's a lot of distractions.
Yeah.
Like I said, I call it my insurance.
Yeah.
I might not necessarily need it, but when I need it, I need it.
Now that being said, for everyone listening or watching, I have a
doctor prescribe prescriptions.
Please, please, please listen to for these medications.
Yeah, do not get one from your friend or somebody that you're in,
you know, a play situation with.
'cause you don't know what possible side effects that you might have.
That's why they are Doctor prescribed.
Agreed.
Uh, you wanna make sure that you know, it's.
It's not an expired pill.
Uh, 'cause those can have issues too.
Yeah.
Uh, all sorts of different things, so Yeah, absolutely.
Taking a prescription medication, I mean, when you're dealing with
medications that deal ba basically they are blood pressure medication.
Yeah.
So if you have any type of underlying heart conditions and stuff like that,
like that, like if I came like Rob, like.
I'm good.
Like you want one, like it's fine and you're like, yeah, sure.
And then you have a heart attack, gimme.
You go have a heart attack because you know your blood pressure
dropped or whatever it is and boy Russ is gonna feel bad.
Yeah.
I can't be old guy.
No one wants that.
No one's having, but anybody going having a stroke or a heart attack or whatever.
In a playroom or period.
Yeah.
But yeah.
And that really kills the mood.
Yeah.
Well, and there's lasting effects of these pills.
Like I know if I, once I, a night I take a Viagra, I feel it the next
day still, oh, easily 36 to 48 hours.
Yeah.
And I'm not sure that Lindsey still understands that effect yet.
See, and honestly, I try communicating that to her like, and that,
like me and Ashley can just keep going all day, the day after.
It's great.
Especially if it's a two day event and the first day I take a
Viagra, that second day is so good.
Like Everybody's going to eat lunch and stuff.
Me and Ashley are in the room.
Yeah.
But yeah, so I just wanted to preface well.
I guess it's not preface 'cause I said it after the fact, but I wanted
reinforce, reinforce the fact that these are doctor prescribed medications.
If you are curious about them, talk to your doctor about them.
Or there's also places like Blue Chew, shameless Care, ent, which
all have physicians to be able to ask these types of questions about.
So I just want to.
Say that.
So, so I want to, I do wanna circle back 'cause um, you know, they,
you talked about, you know, that, uh, the woman thought maybe it was
her originally when you mm-hmm.
From that time.
And, um, a lot of women do understand and they see this, um, with guys.
So I would say they, they are usually very understanding, I think.
And she, she specifically said, you know, yeah, I get that.
I had that problem too.
No, she said to me.
It happens to me all the time.
Happens to me all the time, which I'm like, like, which tells me like, and
she's in, she got in her head because she was saying that she thought it was her
was, she was a problem, was not the case.
Rob: And I felt, got it.
So bad in that situation.
I'm like, but there's really, at that point, there's nothing I could
do except her to be like, no, stop.
You know?
Yeah.
I can do other things and that might actually help me.
Yeah.
Get back going.
That usually helps me get back going.
So, yeah.
So, but yeah, that was, that was uh, not so much a hit to my ego, but I,
there's a bad memory I have 'cause I felt like me, my performance anxiety
made someone else feel bad.
Yeah.
Which is a whole different thing.
I remember the, the first time it happened to me.
Um, I think the one story I related, I was actually thinking
back at even further back.
Um.
Lindsey and I were having a problem.
Um, and so I was with a woman.
We were in a group situation and Lindsey wasn't in the room with me at the time,
and I knew this woman and she knew me, and finally she goes, what's going on?
' cause I, I wasn't getting up, right?
Like we, I needed a correct something.
So I told her, I said, you know, Lynz is in another room and you
know, we're, we got a little thing, you know, between us, whatever.
And she goes, okay, stop.
Like you need to go be with her.
Go be with your wife.
Um, yeah.
And that'll fix things up for you.
They're pretty quick.
And usually that is the case.
Like That was the case.
And that is so again, me like in that situation where me not.
Or say losing my heart on or not being able to get hard is not that
person that's not my wife's problem.
It is my problem and my wife's problem.
Right.
Like that.
To to, to rectify.
Yeah.
Or e rectify.
I love that.
Uh, get some shirts made.
Yes, but trademark Hot coupled cup one by HBV or ABV.
HPV.
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Russ: But yeah, so it really isn't.
Say, where was I at?
We started, we, we went down a side road right there.
We did.
That's okay.
That's fine.
It's funny, we, we always talk about how we should just be recording
all the time because we always have great conversations when the
camera and the microphones are off.
Yes.
Rob: All right, so now let's talk about confidence.
How do you give your confidence a boost?
Because I know how I do it, and I think we do it in raw, basically the same
way, but because we have our day-to-day vanilla lives, it it, and then.
If you say we have stretches where we don't do any lifestyle stuff for a while
and when we're going getting ready for a pineapple weekend or event or something
like that, I'm not at my most confident.
I am just beat down from work and life and everything.
How do you overcome that?
So if I take that scenario, I'm not sure that I can overcome it
and I hear exactly what you're saying, especially since, um, we.
Had, you know, gone to so many different events, it kind of got easier to like
pack and get ready and mentally, and so when they're stacked like one on top of
the other, on top of the other, on top of the other, it's like, I mean, maybe
a couple every couple weeks or maybe every month or so, um, you, it is pretty
easy to quickly get into the mindset.
I go through a mental checklist of the things I want to have.
All the things kind of build myself up and, you know, look myself in
the mirror and say, yeah, I'm happy with what I see, kind of thing.
Um, but if it's been a while, um, sometimes it's like we're just
gonna see what the fuck happens.
Yeah.
Is what it boils down to.
Russ: Yeah.
It's like we're gonna see what happens.
And I'm gonna ultimately forget something, which is why I, you know, my boxes.
Yeah.
So anybody that doesn't know Rob or been in a party with Rob, Rob brings.
Everything.
You have a what, two or three totes on a cart that you pull?
Two, three.
And that's just from like the room box?
Yeah, that's the room box.
That's the emergency stuff.
Um.
That is um, shit,
our, uh, so you can't see anything.
I love my wife, but our wives just came out with their boobs out.
I can't show you.
There were boobies because this is PG 13 and it was very distracting.
There were boobies.
So I do, I do bring a box of everything.
Yes you do.
Um, and somebody will say, do you have a dry erase marker?
Yes, I have a dry erase marker.
Yes.
Do you have tape for my heels?
For my shoes?
Yes.
I have tape for your heels.
Uh, well, and so in the rare occasion, 'cause this has been.
A progression.
Yes.
So in the rare times we'll be like, Rob, do you have this?
He'd be like, no.
Well, that's going in the box.
I now have a measuring, I have a measuring cup in my box, like
why do I have a measuring cup?
Because I might need it.
Because you might need it to make jello shots.
That's right.
You can make jello shots.
You never know.
No.
Uh, yeah, it gets kind of silly.
Um, but I still have room in the box for more.
Rob: Yes.
Uh, so we, what we're talking about is, how do we get
ready to show up and show up?
Yeah.
One of the things that helped me early on was discovering that.
I should do more than put on my dad clothes when we go out.
Yeah.
And that helped a lot to feel good about myself going out finding an appropriate
outfit, shoes really dressing up more than a golf shirt and pants, slacks.
Yeah.
My journey is like it's, we think of the same way, but I started dressing
like that before I got in a lifestyle.
I started dressing like that when I lost a whole bunch of weight.
You felt good about yourself and I felt good about myself.
Yeah.
When we got in the lifestyle, my confidence was already up here.
Now get putting in myself in a completely different situation that
I had never been in before, put my confidence down a little bit.
Yeah, but I got the, kinda like you have the reputation with with your
shoes and your jacket and just your sparkly shirt or whatever it may
be for that in particular night.
Nail polish.
Russ: We, we know, like we know you're dressing in something that's fabulous.
That's the best way I can put it.
Something in your outfit's gonna be fabulous.
I literally have two closets of clothes now.
When we were going to a whole bunch of different events and parties, whatever,
I was always the one that was in a tie.
Sports coat, a dinner jacket a waist coat, something, a three piece suit.
I was the one that was always dressed up and that kind of became my mo
and that's what I felt the best in.
That's how I put my mental state in the best place where I
could put my best foot forward.
How was that received for you?
So for me, I think it was mixed reviews, but so women, I found.
Loved it.
The guy that was in the golf shirt and khakis hated it.
Right?
It's, why are you, why are you so dressed up, this and that?
I'm like, this is what I feel comfortable in.
Like, are you hot?
Uh, I'm a little warm, but you know what?
It's gonna come off later.
Right?
Like likely Lee.
Yeah.
And then, but.
Again, I'm a person about details.
So like when I wear a tie, I have a Trinity Knot.
I like your Trinity Knot.
I, yeah.
You know, I wear French cuffs shirts.
So I have cuff links.
I have lapel pins and pocket squares and little acts like that's what.
I like her.
The little details that once somebody actually looks at what I'm wearing,
they're like, oh, he put a lot of time and effort into the outfit.
Kudos to that guy.
He's probably somebody I wanna talk to.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's, I don't know how many times like, I love that lapel pin.
Where'd you get that?
Or what is your cuff link?
Because I have cuff links that Ashley got me years ago
that are just gun metal steel.
They say daddy on them.
They're laser etched.
It says daddy on 'em.
Nice.
Like what?
Then they, and they, you can't really tell they's like a square cuff link,
but when they hit the light just right, you can see it says something.
Yeah.
And I had one like.
What do those say?
I'm like, oh, here.
And she'd be like, and loved them, loved them.
I'm like, yeah, my wife got 'em for me for anniversary or
something a couple years ago.
This start starts conversation and then, come to find out those people.
They were also in a DS dynamic.
Rob: And so it started a whole conversation of friendship there.
I've had, you know, once the guy, like the guys realize, like biggest compliment
I get from the guys is the Trinity Knot.
That's the biggest thing.
Women pay attention to small details, guys don't.
Yeah.
And they're like, what's that?
They're like, oh my God, look at that tie.
I thought you were just some guy and just a regular tie.
What, what?
How'd you do that?
This and that.
I'm like, oh, it's easy.
I can show you.
It takes practice.
It does take practice now when you, it works really good with a vest too.
Yes.
'cause it gets short.
The tie gets short.
Yes.
Long torso
guys like me.
I need a longer tie.
Yeah, I, I can see that.
Yeah.
But.
Yeah, I wish you don't have a vest on you, then you have a tie up here.
You're right, you're right.
But that's how I always put my best foot forward where it was really taking
time and thinking of like the theme.
How do I make that theme something that I'm comfortable in without looking like
I didn't put any effort into the outfit.
Russ: It's a good icebreaker.
There's that.
Yeah, and also, especially when it comes to the women's optics from it.
We both see it.
Our wives spend hours getting ready.
Yeah.
Why would they waste their time to talk to a guy that spent
five minutes to throw a polo on?
Right.
They spent hours getting ready, trying to look absolutely beautiful
to get ready for this party.
And then some schmuck comes in and a polo and khakis and freaking loafers.
You could be just going to Walmart in that outfit.
But that's my, is I want to.
Like they spend a lot of time on their outfits and getting ready,
spend at least five more minutes before I can, I can least, at least
spend the 30 minutes of making sure everything's shaved and trimmed.
And if I had hair, I'd do my hair better.
I, yeah, I mean that's just how I think about it.
And some, some people don't care or think about it that way.
They're like, oh, it's just a party.
We're gonna get naked anyways.
Well, it's everything that leads up to that.
It's mood setting, right?
Yeah, it's, yeah.
To me, my favorite part is the buildup to the play.
Yeah.
That is my favorite part.
I wanna be excited.
Yes.
I want to, you know, I don't wanna necessarily say, okay,
we're just gonna turn it on.
I want to have that buildup piece of it.
That buildup also kind of alleviates the whole performance anxiety side of it.
Oh, absolutely.
If you, and the everybody you're with is into it and it's been building up for
a couple hours, or if we're in chats or text message group or whatever, where
we've been building up to a re-meet or something like that for months.
Those are the things that I enjoy about the lifestyle.
That whole buildup and suspense and that butterfly feeling, and
dressing in the best way gives me a lot of times, a couple hours
with somebody to have that feeling.
For sure.
Yeah.
And it absolutely helps with my confidence.
Yes.
That's, you know, I feel much better 'cause I know that I'm looking good.
I feel good about how I look.
And it, it helps a lot.
Well, That's, I think, and we, you guys said it, I think we've
said it is dress to impress.
You're there to impress somebody.
Yeah.
Even if it's just your, if it's your partner, you're there to impress somebody.
You're there to have fun with somebody, so why not dress to impress?
That's my hot take.
Dress better guys.
Dress better.
Do better.
Yeah.
Good job.
Do better.
Alright.
Before we wrap this up, I'm gonna ask Rob a few rapid fire questions.
Just spit it out.
First thing on top of your head.
No overthinking it.
Just out of pocket.
Let it go.
Just let it go.
Instant attraction or buildup?
Buildup.
Looks or energy.
Energy.
Confident or chill?
Hmm.
Chill.
Flirty or direct?
Shit.
Yes.
Right.
Flirty or direct.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go direct.
I'm going direct.
Yes, but yes.
All right.
Eye contact from across the room.
Wait.
Or make your move?
Wait.
Ooo see if they make the first move.
If one partners into it, the other one isn't.
Continue or stop.
Stop.
Ever been turned off Mid situation.
Hmm.
That one's a hard on the rapid fire.
Have I been turned off?
Yes.
Ever going along with it just not to kill the vibe.
Gotta think about that a sec. No.
Really?
I have, I have.
Rob: Is no drama realistic?
Is no drama.
Yes.
I think that it is too.
It is very realistic.
No drama is realistic.
I believe that's all I got.
But, But I think so as well.
I think.
This is Hobby.
It's fun.
Yeah, so I think miscommunication stems the drama and it's usually, it's,
it shouldn't be a miscommunication between two separate couples.
It should be, it's probably gonna be miscommunication within a couple.
That's where.
Yes, the drama lives, generally speaking.
Generally speaking, yeah.
The drama usually.
It starts between a couple in itself, but again, we talked, we touched on emotional
intelligence and stuff like that.
If they don't have the EQ to deal with it internally, they start bringing people in.
Russ: We don't bring our, we don't bring anybody in.
We would bring you and Ashley in if we needed to talk through
something and needed help.
So I think you we're friends.
Yeah, we're friends.
Like we're close.
I think only time you would come to us in that situation is if you more or
less are, you can't seem to meet a happy medium and you need some type of mediator.
Yeah.
To see from a differences.
Yeah.
It's not so much for our advice or but that's not what you, what we have to say.
I think it would really just be for, to see it from a different perspective.
To give you guys a, from people we trust.
Yeah, from people you trust.
But it's not gonna be a random couple that you just met, like no
day or night before or that night.
No, no.
You're, but I'm saying again, check it at the door and go home and figure it out.
Yeah.
I think that is, say again, we've been in this space for a minute.
We've seen some crazy stuff happen and it's always been from
relatively newer couples that haven't done the work themselves.
Understood.
Like, we've seen some crazy situations and that's where how me and Ashley
came up with that's a them problem.
Right.
Because especially Ashley, me, I can be like, alright, bye.
See ya.
Ashley's so empathetic towards situations.
I have to pull Ashley back 'cause she's just wants to help.
She wants to.
Yeah.
She, she, she's a helper.
She's a, a helper.
She wants everybody to be happy and have fun and everybody love everybody.
And I have to pull her back like, no.
That's a them thing.
That's a them problem.
And this is a US thing.
Let's go.
Yep.
They reach out to us later and ask us a couple questions, we
can help, give 'em our input.
But like right now, I'm not getting involved in that.
The emotions are too high for us to get involved in that.
Irish like, like we do like Anything But Vanilla and Irish goodbyes.
We've done that.
It was like, all right, bye.
We did that.
And it wasn't because of any situation or emotions or anything,
but when we were done at that party we went to in South Carolina mm-hmm.
We really didn't know anybody there.
Right.
So like we knew the people.
We met the people that were hosting it a few times, but we
didn't know them, know them.
And like, we just dipped.
Like, I'm like, you ready to go?
Like, yeah, I'm ready to go.
I'm like, all right, let's go.
We just kind, unless you make a connection with somebody or you did
some flirting ahead of time or something where you actually know people.
Yeah.
Um, it's, you know, for, for us, it's.
Very, very, very, very rare that there's a DTF situation for us.
Um, and yeah, it's, it happens from time to time, but for the
most part, we want to be connected and understand who people are.
So, yeah, I don't consider us a DTF couple.
We might play the first time we meet, but that means there was
some type of connection, right?
Or an attraction.
And like, we're all, everybody's excited?
Were they flirty and direct?
Yes.
They were flirty and direct.
And so were, we like, and once you and you've been there, you've, yeah.
You know it's so rare to find like that four way connection
where everybody clicks.
It's like, oh, alright, this is, this doesn't happen all the time.
We're going to make sure, let's, let, let's make it happen.
Yeah.
So, but opportunity.
Yeah, it's opportunity.
But that's opportunity and attraction.
And attraction.
Exactly.
So, And that's flirty in direct and that opportunity and attraction and
that is really the real unicorn.
Right.
That is the real unicorn in the lifestyle.
Rob: It's fun when it happens.
It is, yeah.
But.
So I think a lot of people, I get very bouncy when that happens.
You know, those that are all done, you're like, Hey, we, it's like, this is great.
Yeah.
But I can't make it happen all the time and I don't wanna make it happen.
So was it couple nights ago me and Ashley were on our back porch, like
we are at home and we were talking about something lifestyle, and
I'm like going, when was our last swap?
True like just swap where we both came out of it like that was a great time?
Yeah.
And we had to think about it like, like, 'cause I mean, one, we don't
really couple swap very often.
We do a lot of group play.
Group play, play with friends or play with friends.
It was usually more than just one couple thing.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And so we had to think about when the last swap and we found it, we remembered,
but we had to actually think about it.
It's not like a Oh, it was these people.
I asked the question, she's like, when was it?
We had to go back.
We would hit the timeline and we're like, all right, who's the la Like
who's the last couple we swapped with?
We talked about it and like, and we, and we went back in time till we found them.
I'm like, yeah, okay.
That was the good one.
That was that one was it?
Russ: That one was it.
But there was a lot of sweating.
There was.
It was, it was good.
It was good.
Yeah.
But anyways, before we get too far off the rails and I get,
and we get kicked off a YouTube.
I want to thank Rob.
Thank you for hanging out with me.
Yeah.
Everybody go check out their website which is anything but vanilla dot life.
They are on YouTube and Spotify.
Anything but vanilla podcast, they just released their season two episode one.
There you go.
With the two year gap.
There you go.
It was a two year gap, two year gap, which as you guys know, we took a
sabbatical as well, so I'm not judging.
We know it's a lot.
It's a lot.
Anybody that does a podcast understands.
It's a lot.
And we'll be together on Fresh Fridays.
Yes.
Every third Friday of the month, we are hosting a themed event at Trapeze Atlanta.
We have a Google Doc if you wanna come early for a
tour if you've never been there before.
Uh, We'll get you in early.
We will get you everything set up.
You get a tour of the club and you get our exclusive discount, which is listed on our
both our websites and yeah, on the posts.
So, yeah.
That being said, it's not that serious.
Don't make it weird.
All right guys.
Thanks for coming in.
Bye.