Hello, everyone. Welcome to the 10th episode
of the Rejected Pre -Meant Podcast, a space where
rejection is celebrated. The podcast is truly
all about showing how rejection is often redirection
and it is not inherently negative. In fact, it
can lead us to personal and professional growth
and could be viewed as an opportunity. In today's
episode, I'm very happy and honored to welcome
Dave Robbins as our guest. Dave has been an occupational
therapist since 2007. He not only worked with
thousands of clients during those 10 years of
practice, but he also spent 14 years caring for
his own father after a severe stroke. Dave specializes
in building deep connections and identifying
patterns that hinder people from maximizing their
physical and psychological function in their
daily environments. He developed three years
worth of curriculum for a course that assists
people in opening their minds up to possibilities
that helps people recognize their blind spots
and shift their mindsets towards an optimistic
future. With this experience, Dave shifted from
the public healthcare system into working with
businesses and individuals towards mental wellness
as a certified transformational coach using choice
and connection as powerful tools in thought.
His book with the working title of Your Father
Healed the World is in process for publishing
and Dave has a special offer exclusively for
listeners of this podcast. So be sure to stick
around until the end of the episode to find out
what it is. So Dave, thank you so much for making
the time to appear on the show. I am very happy
to have you on and I'm very much looking forward
to the wisdom you will bestow upon us in this
episode. So, can you first just start by telling
me how do you feel about doing today's episode?
Well, thank you. Let me first say how much I
appreciate you welcoming on to your podcast,
Valeria. I really appreciate it. I'm honored
as well to be able to share this time with you.
I'm excited to see what comes up during our conversation.
The last conversation we had was great. I think
it was a great foundation for building a relationship
that we built. And yeah, really looking forward
to seeing what comes from the questions you ask
and being able to serve you and your audience
as best I can. That's great to hear. That's great
to hear. Yes, thanks again for being on this
show. So my A follow up question for you. So
you have been practicing as an occupational therapist
for many years now, but in our first meeting,
you shared with me that you didn't get into occupational
therapy the first time applying. So can you share
that experience with me again and the listeners
and how you dealt with that? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, not only did I not get in the first time,
I didn't get in the second time either. So You
know, I was in acting school when my father had
his stroke. I previously had achieved a bachelor's
of psychology, bachelor of arts in psychology.
And then I traveled for a while, went back to
school for acting and then my dad had his stroke.
And while I was wanting to be an actor, it was
more important for me to support my family. So
I dropped out of that acting program and I supported
my dad for as you said, a number of years. And
while I was marketing this business to help people
like him adjust their lives and their homes to
these newly acquired challenges, somebody said
that I really needed to be an occupational therapist
in order to be successful in my business. So
I went and applied for the Master of Occupational
Therapy program at the University of British
Columbia. And I was so excited because I got
an interview. and I went to the interview and
it went incredibly well. They told me that it
went incredibly well. They were very excited
to have the opportunity for us to collaborate
in education. And then I got my first rejection,
which was that my GPA from my undergraduate degree
was not high enough for them to allow me into
the program. To say the least, I was disappointed
but I guess I had lived long enough and knew
finally what I wanted to do enough that I could
tap into my determination and I went back to
school and I took a number of counseling psychology
courses and I've got between 91 -98 % in all
of them. I was finally able to be a great student.
Again, I think because I finally knew what I
wanted to do with my life and then I applied
again and this time I didn't even get an interview
and I thought, well, shit, what do I do now?
So, I was having a conversation with a friend
of my mother and she said, well, they don't know
what they're missing out on. You should probably
write them a letter to tell them and I thought,
well, that's a great idea. So, I wrote this letter.
And it basically said, hey, last time I got an
interview, this time I didn't get an interview.
I didn't even get an interview last time you
were excited to let me in. And this time I can't
even, I can't even get in front of you to let
you know how capable I am. And, and you haven't
looked at how great a student I've become. I
got between 91 and 98 in all my classes. And
that should show you that I'm really determined
to be a part of this program. And the letter
worked. Got an interview, did really well on
the interview again and then I got my next rejection
which wasn't a full rejection but it felt a little
bit like it which was been put on the wait list.
So, what that meant was like, you're good but
we can't really let you in unless somebody who
we would prefer to get in there rejects us. But
lucky me, somebody decided not to do the program
and I managed to get in. And I later found out
that the interim head of the department actually
really appreciated my letter. I worded it better
than I spoke it just now, but it was obvious
how determined I was and how capable I was and
how interested I was in becoming an occupational
therapist. Right. And how do you think that experience
shaped your approach to rejection in general?
Oh, that's a great question. I think that It
was a lot of things before that, like a lot of
rejections before that, that actually shaped
my capacity to not really be too heartbroken
about all of it. You know, as an actor, there's
a ton of rejection. I mean, you audition and
you audition and you audition and audition. And
most people who audition land fewer roles than
what they auditioned for, right? So there's no
shortage of rejection there. I remember meeting
this one actor who told me that you can use the
energy of potential rejection to show up in the
way that you want to show up for yourself. So
instead of feeling hard done by or like angry
or really like the sadness of rejection, the
hurt of rejection, I'm not immune, so I would
feel some sense of disappointment, but I'd also
feel you to show up with even more determination,
enthusiasm, excitement thereafter. Yeah. Wow,
acting to occupational therapy, to becoming a
certified transformational coach. That's definitely
not a very linear, doesn't seem like a linear
path, but it works for you. And it's great because
I didn't know you were in acting. I just learned
that today. Right? Yeah, we didn't talk about
that last time. No, it's great that you use that
rejection as a fuel and that advice came to you
at the right place, right time. And then you
remembered that and you utilized it. he got you
an acceptance into occupational therapy, and
he led you to help so many people and continue
to help so many people to this day. Yeah, thank
you for saying that. It kind of aligns with what
you were saying that the whole podcast is really
about. It's reframing that it's more like instead
of rejection, it's more like redirecting. And
I think I really feel like that's what happened
to me. I was in acting school. I feel like my
dad kind of took one for the team. I wasn't meant
to be an actor. I was meant to be an occupational
therapist or transformational coach or some combination
of those. And my dad had a stroke in order to
prevent me from actually becoming an actor and
for pulling me into this helping industry that
was like a side of the universe. And then the
advice that I got from that actor about how to
refuel or be intentional about how I fuel or
choose that rejection as fuel and then my mother's
friend who said you should write a letter, right?
And I feel like when we're not too caught up
in what we think we're supposed to do, then we
have much more available to us. for following
the signs of where the universe is steering us,
right? And that's for saying that I needed to
hear that today, I think. So, thank you. Yeah,
it's redirecting. Rejection is redirection. Yeah,
and rejection is something we all go through.
We just don't address it very often, especially
in formal environments like universities or schools
where everyone feels the pressure to succeed.
And it doesn't always come at the same pace or
in the form you imagine it to come to you? Totally.
I mean, people feel quite shy about speaking
about anything that that indicates weakness or
inadequacy, you know, particularly in the social
media age, where you only see people's highlight
reel, speaking about things that maybe don't
paint you and what you perceive to be as the
best light. Those end up on the editing room
floor, for example, and rejection is one of those
things. It's part of what we've also created.
This depends on where you're from and what the
culture is and where you're from. But we've created
this emotional hierarchy, like happiness is way
at the top and sadness is kind of... below what
you would normally talk about. And particularly
in Canada, anger is way, way out the bottom.
You're only allowed to be angry in Canada if
your hockey team is losing. Otherwise, you're
not really like anger. We call it frustration
in Canada. You don't even, we don't even say,
oh, that's a bit frustrating for me. We even
stick away from that. But, but sadness would
be one that would be associated with rejection
and sadness. It's not preferred emotion. It doesn't
have the same weight as people give happiness.
Like, happiness is the goal that you miss out
on the depth of the human experience if you stick
with happiness all the time. Yeah. And as you're
saying that, I remember the movie Inside Out.
You watched that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the
message they were portraying. Like, without sadness,
happiness doesn't feel as... Happy because you
don't you don't you can't fully appreciate happiness
if you haven't been sad or down well work can't
fully be grateful because yeah, it's just it's
it's just adds to the fullness of the human experience
to and helps you be a more mentally healthy when
you appreciate all the emotions that come with
your mood or state or whatever life situation
you're in. So yeah. Yeah, and you kind of addressed
this already, but I'll still ask this. Why do
you think rejection can make us feel so bad?
Like, why can it feel so taboo to talk about
it? Even though everyone experiences it, we all
know it, but we just don't like it. Yeah, no,
fair enough. I mean, I'm not a behavioral biologist.
But I mean, I've got some experience with uh,
from the people with whom I had the chance to
work, uh, think that there's a biological component
to it and that the biological component ultimately
is one of survival. If you are, if you're part
of the tribe, then you have people protecting
you and helping feed you and you're helping them
and feeding them. And if you're not part of the
tribe and you're on your own, then it's a lot
harder to stay safe and be fed. So I think there's
a component of it that's actually biological
where we fear our well -being if we're going
to end up alone. And I think that that translates
into more than it needs to now that we have a
lot more information than we did when we were
living in caves. But Well, I think that that's
important. I think another one is that there's
no manual or at least I haven't seen a thorough
manual yet for raising children and there's so
many opinions and ideas but you know, when we
are doing something that maybe our parents don't
want us to be doing and they react in a way that
feels like it hurts our feelings. We start to
associate rejection with like a removal of love.
And we also, again, start worrying for our well
being, but also for our connection that we want
to have with the people who we care about most.
So I think we quite quickly start associating
rejection with feelings of hurt. and also feelings
of biological well -being. And because there's
no manual, there's not a lot of parents who are
being incredibly supportive in that moment and
saying, this isn't about hurting your feelings.
This is about setting boundaries. This is about
what's okay when you're a part of a team like
this and figuring out the pathways for us all
to support each other in a way that maximizes
all of our capacity and all of our value. And
I mean, I'm saying this, but I don't know what
potential results of this could be for kids moving
forward. And I'm not saying that it's necessarily
better, but it might help support people with
not feeling as hurt by rejection. And recognizing
that the rejection doesn't mean that they're
not okay, or that they're that they're not good
enough, that it's just art of life. Someone else's
boundaries, and what that's actually about and
what that's for. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, what you're
saying reminds me of one of the episodes I did,
because often I emphasize the importance of leaning
on your support systems when you're going either
through rejection or other life setbacks. Um,
but, and then when one of the episodes actually
cover what it means to actually support someone
in a good way, because yeah, you can lean on
your support systems, but if your support system
doesn't really fully know how to support you,
like what not to say, and so it's very important
to, um, uh, provide that support and yeah, for,
for kids to be raised with, um, with, for lack
of a better term, emotionally aware parents and
how certain, how certain things, when they say
them. how that can affect a child or even with
friends, like how something you can say can affect
your friend and being mindful of the words that
we use and being mindful of how we support others.
So I fully agree with you. And yeah, there's
a biological component to it as well, because
there's this aspect of social pain that you feel
when you're rejected. And it's very important
to have people by you who reassure you that you're
still like, you're enough. You're still a good
candidate. It's just, it's not personal. There's
just other factors that play here. Something
not all things are meant for us. So saying things
like that, I don't know, maybe there are better
ways that you're the coach. Maybe there's other
better ways to support. But that's something
that that would help me like to hear. But yeah,
I mean, I think you tapped into something that's
really important there. And that's like, knowing
the person and being able to show up the way
that they would benefit most from you showing
up. And this is something that also we haven't
really focused on super well in our education
system, I don't think, and that's communication.
Like, it's very hard for people to even understand
what they need. So in your scenario, you said
that you wouldn't feel well supported if somebody
said, stop crying, suck it up. Yeah, I mean,
might sometimes, but when it just happened to
me, don't like it's just like in the moment,
it's like, for example, like yesterday or today,
I probably won't be beneficial to me. Right.
But but you were never also never taught to say
to that person, you know what I could really
use right now? I could really use you listening.
And if you could support me through your words
by saying things like, you've got this, I'm here
for you. Would you like a hug? Do you want to
go for a walk? Should we get some ice cream?
Whatever it is, like, we also haven't been taught,
A, to really recognize how we're feeling and
what we need, but then to communicate that to
others, right? And that, that really would help
us help our friends help us. Yes, yes. Yeah,
you're right. You're right. It's about having
that clear communication. Both sides, both sides.
Yeah, and communication with yourself too. Like,
what do I really need here? Do I need somebody
to tell me to buck up and get back at it? Or
do I need somebody to just hold me and let me
cry on their shoulder for six days and then take
me out for ice cream, right? Like, what do I
really need here? And getting to know yourself
at that depth to really understand it and then
step into brave communication to be able to ask
for it. Yeah, I found that with My personal experience
for my personal experience the more honest i
am with myself the more honest i feel like i
can show up for other people and be honest with
them about what i need and how they can best
support me. Based on your experience on working
with many clients over the years what advice
would you give to someone struggling to overcome
rejection and the feelings of shame that come
with it and i think i've asked you this in our
first meeting and you did say something about
how. the narratives you create in our heads,
the language you use in our heads to define certain
things, how that can help shape the trajectory
of our lives. And for example, you can always
say to yourself, oh, this is so difficult. This
is difficult. This is difficult. Like, why do
you frame it that way in your head? Yeah, sure,
it can be tough. But at the same time, you can
reframe it to say to yourself, it's easy. It
just takes practice and you'll get there. May
seem hard now, but it'll become easy later. So
can you just elaborate on that a little bit?
I may have butchered a little bit of how you
framed it, but I want to hear your perspective
on this. Yeah, totally does. I mean, even your
question itself has the opportunity to shift.
So the question was, what advice would you give
to someone struggling to overcome rejection?
So you pick you're picking up on it now I could
see by your face so struggling to overcome Okay,
if you believe that you need to struggle in order
to overcome rejection Well, then you likely will
right? Yeah, you likely will struggle and an
overcoming rejection. I mean, I'm not sure whether
overcome anything My theory would be that we
integrate so that we can reintegrate the information
we learn so that we can handle differently in
a future occurrence, right? So what advice would
I give to someone who is practicing how to integrate
their rejection story? There's so many, but even
even just that like watching your language. Yeah,
one of the quotes that we talked about in our
first meeting was Henry Ford's quote, whether
you believe you can or you believe you can't,
you're right. So if you believe that you can
integrate, practice integrating your rejection
story, then you can. If you believe that you
can't and that you will struggle to overcome
your rejection story, then that will be true.
So watching the language that you use to to define
your narrative. That's one piece that I would
say. Another is that if we use a mindfulness
technique that I call STOP, and I'm not the only
one who uses this, but it stands for stop, take
a breath, observe your thoughts and emotions,
and then proceed. It gives you a moment to reflect
on those thoughts and emotions, and then again,
pick a narrative that you want to have around
moving forward. So do you want to continue to
be, for lack of a better word, stuck in your
programming or your program narrative? Or do
you want to become an intentional author and
author your own narrative moving forward? Leave
it up to your programming or do it yourself.
That is so powerful, because I I heard of that
concept before, but the way you brought it to
our first meeting made me really reflect on that
and think, well, even like achieving success,
people say, oh, that's hard work. That's hard
work. I'm sure it is at some points, but what
if I say to myself, achieving success in my most
authentic way, and it will be easy. Like what
happens? What happens if I do that? And yeah,
I think that's so important. Or it's like, Like
you said, choosing the language you use, and
how about we can say, I want to be rich instead
of I don't want to be poor. Because you're using
the word rich, rich, rich, and that's the one
that your brain remembers. For example, I'm just
throwing out examples here. But if you keep repeating
to yourself, poor, poor, poor, even if you don't
want to be but that's kind of You always associate
or that fear develops of being poor because you
don't want that. But what a what a fascinating
concept that our thoughts really do frame the
trajectory of our life. Scary and exciting at
the same time. Yeah. Well, do you believe it's
scary or whether you believe it's exciting? It's
exciting. It's only exciting. It's yeah. And
you truly are responsible for your thoughts and.
what you think, because it all starts from those
steps. It starts from your thoughts and it goes
into your life. So you said there that we're
responsible for our thoughts and I'm not totally
convinced that that's true. Like I don't even
know where the origin of thought exists, right?
Like I don't know whether some great being is
planting the thoughts in my head. I don't know
whether they're coming from my experience. I
don't know whether they're coming from some fruit
that I eat in the morning. I have no idea what
the origin shot is or are or yeah, I'm not even
sure. Anyway, but we are, we are responsible
for our reactions and responses. Because I definitely
have some thoughts that pop into my head that
are not ones that I want to want to act on. So
and I and I know that they show up. And maybe
it's just that I wouldn't want to take responsibility
for that. Yes, no, you're definitely right. I
like that version better. Our reactions and our
responses to our thoughts are what helped us
shape trajectory over our lives. Can we leave
it at that? Is that good? Totally. And you've
sort of addressed this, but what are some effective
tools or practices you have found to be effective
for overcoming Oh, here we go. Let me let me
do this. I'm going to rephrase the question that
I wrote. So it sounds language wise, it's a bit
more optimistic. Practices they have found to
be effective to redirect yourself from your rejection.
Is that bad? That's not grammar. But you know,
either way, I think the message says you previously
mentioned mindfulness. I think that's very important.
Can you elaborate on that or mention some other
techniques? You bet. For me, it's really about
learning to pick the right cherries. I think
we talked about the cherry tree, right? That
if we were to look at a cherry tree and the cherry
tree will have cherries that are ripe and the
cherry tree will have cherries that are rotten
and the cherry tree will have cherries that aren't
ripe yet. And if we look at each one of those
as though they're thoughts, we're not going to
pick the rotten cherries, because we don't want
to eat them. We're not going to pick the cherries
that aren't ripe yet, because we want to give
them a chance to ripen. And if we're picking
the ripe cherries, which are the thoughts that
are going to serve us best in supporting, becoming
the person who we want to become from this day
forward, then then we're picking the right cherries.
Let the rotten cherries fall. You don't have
to pick them. We've all picked rotten cherries.
all of us have had thoughts that, you know, aren't
the best thoughts for supporting a future that
we want. And we've picked cherries that aren't
ripe yet, and then we end up making mistakes,
which are really just learning opportunities
anyway, but we make mistakes. And if we take
the time to pick cherries that are the right
ones, and we know that we can consciously do
that, then we're living more intentionally. So
our programming might keep us picking rotten
cherries or might keep us picking Unright cherries.
But if we can take a second use use the mindfulness
technique stop so that we can be conscious of
which cherries are the right cherries for us
to pick in this moment, then we can then we can
steer our life in the direction that we want
it to go rather than just leaving it up to our
programming for us. And would you recommend because
I know for me to keep track of my thoughts, it
helps to do meditations. Journaling is also a
great way to keep track of your thoughts because
sometimes you don't really know how certain thoughts
came about or what triggered that thought. Would
you agree that those are good techniques to do
or practices? Or would you have something to
add? Because there might be people who are like,
I don't know how to stop picking rotten cherries.
I don't know how to do that. Like, where can
they start? I think that it all comes back down
to deepening awareness. And there are endless
classes for deepening awareness. So meditation
is one, as long as you don't spend three quarters
of the time beating yourself up for not getting
meditation right. Which is also a common practice.
The stop practice that I mentioned, implementing
that, like pick something you do 20 times a day.
And that might be walking through a doorway,
going up and down stairs. at or a dog, changing
gears on a bike, getting in and out of a car,
anything you do 20 times a day and in that moment
just practice, stop, stop, take a breath, observe
your thoughts and emotions and then proceed and
that'll help deepen your awareness. So, if you
need it in a specific situation, you've been
practicing it so frequently that it'll show up
for you. Not every time but practice makes improvement.
Journaling is another great option. Depending
on what you're journaling about if you're journaling
about what you did with your day, then maybe
less so that what thoughts did I have today?
How did those thoughts affect me with my day?
Was there anything that I would do differently?
I know some people who do a climb in bed review.
So the first thing they do when they climb in
the bed and close their eyes is they start from
the moment they woke up and they review their
entire day with as much detail as they possibly
can. It's a great memory exercise as well, but
it also creates greater awareness of what you
did and what you were doing and what you were
thinking when all of those things were happening.
Some people will do that and then they'll ask
themselves, what could I have done differently
or what would I have done differently today?
One of the things that we do in our household
is we play Happy Crappy, which is like a version
of Rose's Thorn's Bud. but basically we talk
about something that was happy from our day and
something that was crappy from our day and then
we ask for consent to share and if consent is
given then we can support the people with their
crappies and what they can learn from the crappies
that they've experienced. But again, it's just
to bring people into greater awareness. Another
practice is just square breathing. So breathe
in for four, hold for four, Read out for four,
hold for four, read in for four, hold for four,
read out for four, hold for four. And that just
gives you a second. This is basically, again,
stop and then do some reflecting during that
time. You might even be able to play some games.
Pick your person and have a game that's like,
how was your day? Great. How was your day? Great.
Okay, let's get into it now. What worked really
well for you today? And what would you do differently
today? And it's again, just an opportunity to
dive deeper into awareness. I know that people
really like the gamify things. So yes, it's fun.
It's your learning and you're having fun and
you're playing and I think it's a it's a win
win for everyone for everything. Yeah. Um, so
I'm gonna shift gears a little bit, but not really,
by moving on to the next question. So in your
work, you, you help clients shift their mindset
towards a more optimistic future. And you said
using choice and connection as the tools, tools
and thought, can you elaborate what you mean
by choice and connection? And how can we use
choice and connection to redirect ourselves from
our rejection and other lives? potential situations.
Here we go. You're doing really well with that.
Thank you. Picking words that... This is my practice
for me. Yeah, it's brilliant. This is another
way to do it. Create a script, review it, and
see how you can adapt it to what more we want
to be in the future. It's not... necessarily
towards more optimistic. If you want to be more
optimistic, then great. But I have the sense
like, most people I know and that I've met have
no trouble beating themselves up in some way.
Like, the common thread is that there's an inadequacy
story amongst people who I get to work with and
the inner critics can be at varying levels of
audibility but it's always there. right? So the
idea is that when you start using words like
I get to rather than I have to or when you use
words on like opportunities rather than setbacks
or challenges rather than problems, right? Then
you start to overwrite the inner critic or at
least another voice in your head, one of your
other voices is louder. And we're all stronger
when the critic isn't winning. So choice and
connection. So let's start with connection. Connection,
I think, is the foundation of safety. And if
we feel safe, if we feel really, really, really
safe, then we can go anywhere with anybody, right?
And so that's the idea is to build an incredibly
safe container where people will have no possibility
of a sense of rejection for me. Like the, I guess
the word is judgment, although judgment can be
used in both a positive and negative way, but
people generally feel some sense of being judged
by themselves or by others. And I, for the most
part, pull that out of my practice completely
unless my judgment is going to help somebody
have a break and then I'll surprise them by bringing
it in because most of the time it's not there.
And that's Rogerian psychology. His theory was
one of unconditional positive regard. So, if
somebody is regarded positively by the person,
again, finally they feel safe enough to reveal
to themselves what's really going on. And that,
I believe, is in connection. So connection is
my number one tool. My number two tool is choice.
And this is recognizing how we can separate our
programming, shift around a few zeros and ones
so that we can intentionally write our new program.
And I'll explain this through a model that I
believe we chatted about a little bit the last
time. It's a model that I created called the
circle of choice. And bear with me here, it's
a little bit easier when you can draw it in front
of you, but picture a circle with a dot in the
middle. And that dot in the middle is absolutely
anything that could ever happen to you. And now
I'm going to put you standing on the top of the
circle and I'm going to put me standing on the
bottom of the circle. And we're gonna call that
dot in the middle of the circle the birth of
our first child. And you're thinking, wow, this
is amazing. This is gonna bring Dave and I closer
together. I get to fulfill my biological purpose.
I get privilege of raising another person and
guiding them through the human experience. I
get to feel the love and connection that can
exist when I stare. into another human's eyes
when they've literally come out of my body. And
I'm thinking, holy shit, holy shit, how did this
happen? I swore we used protection. How am I
going to be able to communicate with her now?
I had a terrible father. I've never changed a
diaper. I can't even make enough money to support
myself, let alone this other human. Now, which
of those two stories is true? I hope not the
second one, but I hope I want to keep the first
one. That's the more... One I want to pick. I'm
glad that I put you at the top of the circle
because that story is your truth. And the other
story is my truth, right? And the reason that
my truth differs in this situation from yours
is because of my past. So on the outside of the
circle, we would draw this beautiful hiking trail
that leads up to my feet, and a separate beautiful
hiking trail that leads up to your feet. And
those trails most people would call their past,
but I call it our programming. My programming
has trained me to see the birth of my first child
through a lens of panic. And your programming
has taught you to see the birth of your first
child through a lens of elation. And that all
happens automatic. But we want to move away from
automated thinking. We want to become the authors
of our narrative rather than letting our programming
continue to offer our narrative for us. So using
this mindfulness technique, stop, stop, take
a breath, observe your thoughts and emotions.
In order to do that, I'm going to pull myself
off of a circle. So I have a bird's eye view
of this circle now. And in observation of my
thoughts and emotions, my emotion is fear. And
my thoughts were the ones that I mentioned, like
I've never changed a diaper. But if I'm going
to take a second with those and be intentional
about them, then I might think, okay, yeah, so
I've never changed a diaper, but there's 8 billion
people on the planet. how hard could that be?
And yeah, but then again, I have had struggled
communicating, but we've never had something
like this unite us before. And I've struggled
to hold a job make enough money for myself, but
I've never been financially responsible to another
keep being maybe that's the chicken, but I need
to actually make the money that I need. And yeah,
my dad was a terrible dad, but maybe that was
the foundation foundation I needed to be a better
dad, or maybe even a good one. So I'm not going
to put myself back on the circle. where Valeri
is because I think in this situation, he's quite
naive. But I'm not going to keep myself in the
fear spot anymore. I'm going to put myself back
on the circle in cautiously optimistic. You remember
how many degrees are in a circle? 360 360 degrees.
So we have 360 choices of how to see absolutely
anything that ever happens to us ever. Our programming
is going to pick one, but that leaves 359 other
options for us to intentionally choose. in order
for us to be the person who we want to be from
this day forward rather than remaining as the
person that we've been all along. We can choose
to remain that person if we want to, but now
we're doing it intentionally rather than having
our programming do it for us. So when we're rejected,
that's the dot in the center. Your perspective
is, oh no, I really wanted to be a doctor. And
on the other side of the circle, I might be,
oh, yes, I didn't want Valeria to become a doctor
because I'm going to lose her for the next decade.
And both of those stories are true. They're just
true to the other people, right? But the idea
of, oh, no, I wanted to become a doctor is just
one of your 360 choices. You have 359 others.
And knowing that you've got that capacity and
that power and now that knowledge and that tool,
you get to pick. That's really powerful. Thank
you. I don't even have anything else to add to
this. I'm just absorbing as you're speaking.
So I'll just let that sit at that. And thank
you. Thank you for putting me in this situation
because it makes me actually be more absorbed
into the lesson that you're trying to or the
idea that you're trying to portray. And yeah,
so that was very beneficial. I'm so glad. Thanks
for listening. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna move
on to the next question. But you worked with
many people over the years, who can feel all
sorts of ways when they've experienced rejection.
And without revealing their identities, if maybe
you could share a story of someone or several
people, their stories of how they actually if
they've initially felt not so good about it,
if they've really beat themselves up about it.
How did they change that narrative to the one
that better served their future? And what can
we learn from those people? Yeah, great. Well,
let me start off with saying that most of the
people who I get to work with struggle in their
relationships in some form. It's not always easy
to be partners, particularly when we haven't
been super well trained in communication, like
I mentioned. So people, when they get into some
sort of disagreement with their partner, ultimately,
there's a form of or a sense of rejection that's
existing in that moment in that argument. And
I'm picking this one, because it's so common.
And I think that it would be valuable for your
listeners. A tool that I offer there is a bow.
and you just take the bow, this imaginary bow
and you place it on your partner's forehead when
they're coming at you with their anger. Because
if in that moment you can see all of the gifts
in it, right? Gifts come wrapped in a bow and
the best gifts that we get in life don't come
wrapped in a bow. They're usually the toughest,
right? So if we can put a bow on it, we're empowering
ourselves the shift out of our automated way
of thinking, which is generally some form of
defense. And we're recognizing that this other
person is needing us right in that moment, right?
One of the gifts is that your partner is in distress
right now. How can you show up for them? That
doesn't mean you become a doormat. But it does
mean that you shift your orbit, and you move
it to something that's more intentional. So instead
of moving into the habituated defense that you
would do, now you're disrupting the pattern and
moving more towards something that might represent
who you want to be, which is somebody who shows
up for their partner. A side benefit of that
is that it usually pulls all of the anger out
of it because the person is feeling supported,
not every time, but it has that capacity, which
also disrupts the pattern, and it's modeling
maybe how you'd prefer to be treated if you're
losing your shit yourself. Right? So, it's shifting
away from the habituated way of thinking about
rejection or needing to defend yourself from
this aggression or anger and moving more towards
what is actually going on here and how can I
move toward my ultimate goal, which is probably
not fighting. Right and this reminds me of a
moment from a movie I saw and I think there was
the scene and I think it's I don't remember the
movie but the line was said by Morgan Freeman
and I think He was playing God in that movie.
I think it's about something about Noah's Ark
and he was saying something like when you When
you want to be kind do you just become kind?
Well, you get an opportunity to be kind so When
you want to be more supportive to your partner,
don't just bam, become suddenly more supportive.
You get an opportunity for that. So you see that,
like you said, they're angry. Like imagine the
bow, like that's a present. That's an opportunity
for you to show up the way you want to show up.
And then if you want to be strong, sometimes
life gives you situations where you'll become
strong. And that analogy, that's how it reminded
me of. Yeah, it's a beautiful scene with Morgan
Freeman, which is exactly that. Like, if you
want to become more patient, God will deliver
lots of opportunities to exercise your patience
by training you how to be patient. And I want
to like, again, just caution, the idea is not
to set you up to get walked all over, right?
The idea is actually one of empowerment, where
you're becoming in charge of your narrative.
rather than your programming just, again, pushing
you into defensiveness. Yeah, yeah, well said.
Wow, there's just so much that was said and the
wheels in my head are turning and just thinking
and coming up with new things and new ideas and
thoughts that would better serve me and just
I got so much out of our conversation and We
are soon coming to the end of this episode. Do
you have any last thoughts or main takeaways
you have for anyone who's listening in? I love
that. And as a coach, it's a technique to when
somebody asks you a question, to actually reflect
that question back to them. I'm actually going
to throw it back to you. What are your main takeaways
from this conversation? Well, For me, I really
like the idea of how our reactions and responses
to our thoughts frame our life pretty much. I
find that so much goes from there and having
that awareness of your thoughts and having that
awareness of how you respond to those thoughts
and not being too hard on yourself when those
thoughts are not the best. You can either pay
attention to that thought or replace it with
another one that makes you feel better or when
negative thoughts just keep coming for some reason,
don't pay attention to them. It's always your
choice. You have whatever situation you are in,
no matter how it may seem, you always have a
choice. And I think that's very empowering. And
I would love to leave that message almost because
we have the power in what decisions we make,
what choices we make. And I think that's very
important for people to understand and to know.
Thanks for that. And you helped remind me of
an image that that also helps me with thought
analysis. And that would be like, it's almost
like you're standing in a river. And thoughts
are in well, like they are the water and thoughts
will just keep on flowing, unless you get in
their way. So if a thought that you would label
as negative is slowing, it will just keep on
flowing all the way through you unless you put
up some sort of barrier where it then gets caught
on you and sticks with you for as long as it
sticks with you. So, we have this opportunity
because I don't want us to like ignore the thoughts,
I want us to see the thoughts. but then not give
those thoughts any more value than what we would
want to give to those thoughts, right? These
thoughts are part of who we are. They're coming
up as a part of our human experience. But how
much do we want to invest in them? How much energy,
effort, time do you want to invest into these
particular thoughts or do you want to just keep
on flowing? Here you are. Okay, bye -bye. Oh,
here's another one. Nope, don't like that one
either. keep on going. Oh, yes, there's one.
Oh, I like that one. Maybe I'll hold on for that
for a while. Here, I'll put it in my pocket.
Oh, there's another one I don't like. Just let
it keep on going, right? And that's one of the
ways that people have a tendency to meditate
is just this allowing the passage of thoughts
to just keep on flowing through without judgment
and without blocking them so that you end up
holding on for longer than you may want to or
need to. Before I forget, could you please share
the special offer you have for the listeners
of this cast that you generously offer? Oh yeah,
absolutely. Anybody who would like an introduction
to coaching, maybe they haven't had any coaching
before, or even if they'd just like to see what
coaching with me would feel like for them, I
would be happy to gift you a mindy minute. coaching
session to see whether we can help you be as
intentional as you can be with your thought investment
moving forward, or whether I might be a good
match as a coach. So I'd be happy to, to gift
you a 90 minute coaching session. Thank you for
that. Yeah, I mean, sometimes I want to get a
coach I'm just I'm waiting for the moment. I
don't know what I'm waiting for, but I'm waiting
for it. And yeah, coaches having coaches, I think
it's like having actually don't quote me on this.
Maybe I'm wrong. But like having like having
coach having a therapist having someone with
an expert lens can hear your story and listen
to you and Perhaps provide some guidance like
you provided to me when you said, why should
I label rejection as difficult? You know, it's
maybe maybe it's easier than I think it is. It's
all about how I frame it and what I believe it
to be. So yeah. Yeah. And where can people connect
with you and learn more about your work, including
your upcoming book, Love Your Father, Heal the
World. And I just want to hear what what is the
book about? And then you can address where can
people connect with you? Okay, yeah. The book
is currently about the journey that I took, the
14 -year journey I took with caring for my father,
the troubled relationship we had before and the
love that we were able to find in the care relationship
and how that really, how both of us yield to
the point where we felt really solid in who we
were. And from that secure foundation, how much
personal development work I was able to do because
I felt so secure in myself as a result of the
love in our relationship. That's beautiful. That
event stroke, which is in itself not very nice
event, to put it in the least, but the fact that
it led you to become more bonded with each other
and I would love to read that. Thank you. Yeah,
the chapter one chapter is called stroke and
then in parentheses it says of luck because ultimately
this really traumatic experience led us both
back to love. Yeah, people can find me on my
website, DaveRobbins .com. People can find me
on Instagram, Dave Robbins. Might be Dave Robbins
coaching. I think it's Dave Robbins. I'm on Facebook
as Dave Robbins as well, and LinkedIn as Dave
Robbins. I'm sure that there will be notes. Yes,
and you can just reach out to me, Dave at DaveRobbins
.com. I'd love to hear from you. Great. Okay.
Well, thank you so much, Dave, for joining me
on this podcast and this episode. It's been an
absolute privilege to hear your insights and
learn about your journey as both. occupational
therapist as a son who cared for his dad and
a transformational coach. For many people, it
is very easy to feel like, and I was myself one
of those people, to feel trapped by rejection
and let it define their paths. But as you have
kindly shared, rejection is not the end. It is
a redirection. It is a chance to reflect, grow.
We can use it to redirect ourselves to something
even greater that we could have ever imagined
for our paths. And Dave has provided invaluable
tools for navigating life's setbacks with resilience
and mindfulness, emphasizing the importance of
reframing rejection as an opportunity and paying
attention to the narratives we create in our
minds. Listeners, I would love to hear your thoughts
on this episode. I would love to learn what resonated
with you the most. Feel free to DM me on social
media or suggest topics for future episodes.
And if you'd like to support the podcast and
the content I create, you can also donate at
buymeacoffee .com slash Valeria Rusnak. The link
for that will be in the show notes too. This
has been Valeria Rusnak, the host of the Rejected
Pre -Med Podcast. I thank you all for listening.