Welcome back everyone to the rejected pre-med podcast.
I miss you all and I have missed talking to you about rejection, which I often say is
probably not the most pleasant topic for a conversation, but this podcast is all about
showing how rejection is often redirection and it is not innately negative.
In fact, it can lead us to personal and professional growth and it could be viewed as a potential
opportunity.
Even though it could possibly sting in the moment, it can be very difficult to get over
sometimes understandably.
In today's episode, the rejected pre-med podcast is thrilled to welcome Grimo Sohi, a former
pre-med student who is now a dynamic data scientist with a passion for innovation and
community impact.
Grimo's journey spends a unique intersection of biology and computer science, leading him
to explore how technology can address public health challenges.
His work delves into brain computer interfaces, healthcare applications, and data analytics.
When I was looking at Grimo's profile, I was thinking to myself, is there anything this
guy can't do?
Like Grimo hosted podcasts, does tutoring, his tech savvy, and there's so much other
stuff that I won't mention right now, but he's truly a networking ninja and he's just
ninja in general.
So doing different things here and there.
Well, Grimo is incredibly busy and probably super productive.
He also prioritizing maintaining mental wellness and work life balance, something we will dive
into today.
Grimo has faced rejection and setbacks that have shaped his path and he'll be sharing
those stories.
Additionally, we'll discuss how to support those navigating rejection and other life
setbacks.
While I often emphasize the importance of relying on our support systems during our
challenging times, it's not always clear to our friends, family, and community how they
can best support us through those experiences.
So thank you so much Grimo for making the time out of your very, very busy schedule to
record this episode.
I truly appreciate it and I ask most of my guests this and you are no exception.
How do you feel about doing today's episode?
Hey Valerie, thanks so much for giving me that introduction and I feel great.
Like I think it's a really nice day outside, very beautiful day, sunny, you know, like
in Calgary sometimes you get snow and it's kind of been very like warm this year and
I get the positive vibes from the sun, you know, like there's this thing called sad seasonal
affected disorder.
So I don't think I've like faced as much of it this year, probably same for you, but
I feel good about it.
So I'm happy to be here.
Great, great.
Happy to hear that.
And firstly, let's just dive right into it.
I want to get to know more about your mental wellness journey.
I truly believe that the ability to overcome setbacks and just in general ability to live
a peaceful and happy life is deeply rooted in our mental well-being.
And you have mentioned that you have embarked on a mental wellness journey in junior high
to me.
And later you're still trying to find ways to stay mentally healthy.
Did you grow up prioritizing mental wellness always?
Or is there something specific that pushed you to focus on that?
Yeah, totally.
I can get really deep into the details about that, but I'll just summarize.
So I think this kind of journey stems when you go through something very difficult in
your life and you're very self aware.
So for me, it was mostly just coming to Canada.
Like I came to Canada very young age and I think I had a lot of identity issues growing
up.
So it was like, I came to school.
I think I did kindergarten back in India and then I did it here.
And the one was a language barrier.
There's a cultural barrier.
There's also like an issue of like, oh, I'm being caught something at home and I'm being
caught something at school.
So there's a bit of a disconnect.
And my mom, she is also in kind of healthcare space.
Like she has a biology background and she studied a PhD in zoology.
So she's been very like, I don't know, health focused as kids.
She's like, yeah, you guys need to eat well.
You can't eat junk.
You need to be active.
And she was very like, I guess kind of germophobic and a bit paranoid.
So I also picked that up from her and I became like that.
And I used to stress out a lot.
I don't know why just growing up, like I was always in stress or an anxiety.
Like I was thinking about the future and I was thinking a lot of like adult things at
a young age.
Like normally you'd be thinking about why I want to go to the playground and play.
I would be like, why are people suffering?
Why is there bullying?
Why do I have this identity crisis?
And my journey mostly started with mental illness specifically, like I had a ESL coding
when I came in.
So that was one thing.
The other thing is I also had an IPP coding.
So because I was very distracted and I wasn't focused in school, they thought I had a learning
disorder.
So a lot of like my early stages in school was figuring out like, do I have a learning
disorder?
You know, and that's kind of where my mental illness journey started because I think physical
health, I was fine.
Like I would play a lot of sports was very active was going on a lot.
But mentally I was very confused.
Like I had an identity crisis.
I was trying to learn a language is trying to learn the culture.
I saw my parents struggling growing up.
Like they did not know how to navigate the Canadian system.
And it was kind of just a lot of like being pushed back and forth.
And I was like, I don't really know how to navigate the system either.
Right.
So it would be like, they'll pull you separately out of class and kind of put you in a room
and teach you.
And it felt very like alienating.
Like it kind of felt like, oh, like I'm not like everybody else.
And as a kid, I think you just want to fit in.
As you get older, you realize like it's actually good to stand out and like be unique.
But as a kid, you're kind of just like, I want to feel like everyone else.
I don't want to feel like I'm separate.
So I kind of felt this like alienation and discrimination and marginalization at a young
age that really affected my mental health because of so many other things going on.
Like as a kid, like you shouldn't feel like an imposter, like a stranger alienated.
Like all you really want to feel is like, I fit in.
I'm having fun.
I'm having a good time.
Like I used to have a lot of tutors too.
And they would be like, you shouldn't be thinking about the stuff you're thinking about.
Like they're kind of like devalidated by feelings.
And they were like, you're a kid.
Like why are you thinking about stuff like this?
Like why are you stressed?
Like you should just live life and have fun.
And I'm like, I can't, can't even tell you because I feel a bit of shame and guilt, you
know?
And it's like, I get stuck in my head a lot.
But for me, I used to think about a lot about things and mull over things and I get stuck
in my head and I'm like, yeah, this doesn't feel good.
Right.
And I need to overcome this.
So from a young age, I'm like, I got to learn how to overcome my own feelings and triumph
over things and just kind of get to like a better of all the state of myself.
And I think having that faith, having that faith in yourself.
And I feel like we should always foster that because as hard as it is, because maybe we're
older, we see the world as it is things are not always as they appear sometimes as a child,
but still having that faith.
I think that contributes to resilience.
Firstly, if that's okay, I just, I just want to say your whole story, I can relate to it
so much.
I moved here when I was nine and I'm the oldest child and I had barely any English knowledge
whatsoever.
So that language barrier that you mentioned was tough and being an agent back home and
moving here and not knowing what I'm doing and no one understands me and I'm this Russian
girl with the weird accent that no one understands what I'm saying.
So it was a very big adjustment.
And even though my experiences do not directly replicate yours, but I can definitely relate
to what you're saying.
And the fact is that you were still a kid having gone through so much, you know, adjustment
and the fact that you were so mature for your age, like I wasn't that mature.
I was just kind of playing with friends, get good grades.
That's it.
That was, that was me.
And, and in a way, maybe I'm kind of thankful that I was a bit more ignorant than you, for
example, because you were thinking about all these world problems and at such a young age,
I can imagine me so overwhelming for your, just for your brain, just kind of process
this.
You're still developing.
I mean, just even talking about it's just like, I can imagine how overwhelming that
was.
It was a lot of sensory overload for a kid.
Even the fact that you were acknowledging all that as a child just shows how mature
you were and the fact that you realized, okay, I need to go and focus on mental wellness,
otherwise I would not be doing very well.
I guess that's kind of my question.
So you know, you have all these thoughts in your head, have sensory overload.
What do you think, and starting in junior high or maybe before, what do you think helped
you kind of made you feel a little bit better?
In terms of sensory overload, I think there was a part of me that was like perseverance.
I was like, okay, I just need to listen to that inner voice and follow it and trust it.
And I think I'll be able to get through this.
Like I think as human beings, we have resiliency and we have perseverance, but if you can tune
into that connection, your body, your physiology, your mental state, it all evolves and it will
push you through it.
So in terms of like dealing with sensory overload, I think like I've always made lists.
So I would like have like these little agendas and I think I had agendas all the way to
high school and then I just started typing it up on my laptop.
So I would start prioritizing things.
I'd be like, what's a priority?
And then I even did that with my thoughts.
I would be like, I need to start journaling.
Like I don't know if this is real, like what I'm feeling.
So I got to write this down and like what happened was like I journaled a lot, I made lists and
then I would try to seek mentors.
Like I would try to find like a teacher I could connect with or like some sort of like,
like, you know, the gym teachers, like sports, like coaches, I try to find those and I would
try to find someone who has like similar interests.
I used to run a lot, like do like track and field and cross country.
So I think running used to help a lot because like running, walking, like it used to just
help me pace out my thoughts, you know, because it used to feel like I have six or seven different
thoughts like tabs running in the back of my mind.
And as a kid, I think I had three or four.
They went up as I became an adult.
So I was kind of just like, I need to put some like on hold.
Like I need to find a way to either distract myself or to do something that I feel satisfaction
from.
And a lot of that came from physical things like running.
And I wasn't really hitting the gym as a kid, but I was playing a lot of things.
Like I was playing soccer.
I was in soccer teams, played badminton.
I ran.
I think I really liked being creative, coloring, doing therapeutic things, making stuff, like
innovating, building.
So I'm trying to just make stuff, you know, on the side, draw, paint.
I remember I took arts class.
I was in music.
I was in drama.
I was in some like school plays.
So I kind of just found like creative ways to use my brain and then to use it in physical
ways.
And that kind of helped me feel good about myself and make a positive self-image.
I like that part a lot.
You mentioned doing things that help you foster a positive self-image, which I think is so
important even for adults and for children fostering that positive self-image journaling.
And yeah, I also wanted to ask and transition like, what do you do compared to then?
What do you do now to maintain mental wellness?
How has that journey changed?
100%.
Yeah, there's still a bunch of overlap.
I think I still follow a lot of the principles that my young child self had.
I think it's very important to be in tune with your inner child.
I think for me, like when I'm going through a lot of stuff, I'll self-isolate at first.
I'll just try to take like self-care time.
So I'll be like, I just need time to myself.
Like I know in your previous podcast, you mentioned just sitting in your room.
I do that a lot.
I just sit there with my thoughts and like, I will write stuff down.
I'll start watching shows.
Like I will just, I'll even go through childhood shows sometimes because it's a bit therapeutic
for me because it reminds me of really good memories.
I'll do something that makes me remember something good.
Like I'm like, I'll either eat something that has a positive memory.
I'll watch something that has a positive memory and I'll just spend time with myself in like
my room.
And I think I used to be more creative.
Like as a kid, I would start drawing or I'd start like, I don't know, making some project
with some visual design and can vary something.
But now I kind of just sit with myself and then I'll usually tune into a podcast and
I'll put a podcast on and I'll start maybe cleaning my room or something or I'll start
walking around or I'll go outside for a walk.
And it's kind of just like, I spend time with myself without having like anyone talking
to me because I think as an adult, when they're happening was I started being in a lot of
public spaces.
I became more visible.
A lot of people started recognizing me and it was just like, I was being pulled in like
every direction and I'm like, this is too much.
This is that same sensory overload feeling I had as a kid.
So I got to find a way to get away from everything.
Like I'm the type that I would go to like a hike or I'd go to a mountain or I'd go on
a trip.
I'd just try to get away from everything and go somewhere where like no one knows me and
just kind of take it easy.
And I listened to music a lot.
So I would just go outside for a walk and put my music on.
In COVID time, I used to bike a lot as well.
I don't bike as much now.
But it's mostly just like spend time with yourself, journal, read a book, we'll listen
to a podcast and also hit the gym.
Sometimes when I'm like, okay, if I want to feel productive and I don't want to do anything,
if I just work out a bit, it feels good.
So that's kind of what I do now as an adult.
I'm still working on it.
This is like a lifelong journey.
This is what's working for me now.
The other thing I started doing is like sometimes I'm like, okay, I spent time with myself.
Now I'm kind of bored.
I want to do something exciting and fun.
Like now my social battery is back up.
I think I usually just isolate when my social battery is kind of low and I'm like, I need
to recharge.
And now I spend enough time with myself.
Like let's do something fun.
So I'll start like just planning events with friends.
Like that's something I would do when my social battery is back.
Spend enough self care time.
Like let me go out into the community, let me meet friends or family and just have a
good time and spread positive vibes.
And I love meeting new people.
Like I love having first, like the first of a food, the first of a trip, like just going
out and doing something for the first time.
I think like it helps build new neural connections in your brain.
I like how you said for currently for maintaining mental wellness, the fact that you're intentional
and you realize, okay, I've been around so many people.
I'm a public persona now.
I need to recharge my social battery and be alone.
And there's people who don't always understand.
They're like, why are you sitting there?
Why are you like being, that's not a, that's just me.
That's just me processing.
Like give me time to process, give me space to process.
And it's so cool that you're doing that and hearing someone else do that also that they're
in the room, recharging their batteries, being alone and being very intentional with that.
I think that's very healthy.
And honestly, not everyone needs the same amount of isolation, need the same amount of
time to recharge their social battery.
But I would recommend to everyone just kind of set aside some time, maybe like a little
bit each week or each day, however much you need.
Just spend time with yourself, get to know yourself and get to know your inner voice
and what it says, because it's often very valuable and you know, it's a path to self
love that we're all going for and we're all trying to achieve.
It's just not always so easy.
But yeah, like how intentional you are with that.
And then you're also intentional aware and you realize, okay, my battery's up.
I can, I can pack my calendar now.
I'm not going to isolate forever.
And it's very important that you know that line sometimes, you know, it's very tempting
to like, okay, I'm recharging now, but I'm scared to go out and you're fearing to develop
new relationships or develop those relationships already exist in your life.
So you're being very intentional and you're aware, okay, I can go out now.
I can make friends.
I can develop my current relationships that I already have.
And I think knowing that boundary and knowing that line, it takes time to get to know yourself.
And the fact is we always change too.
So the amount of time we need to recharge that changes all the time.
I know for me it does.
So it's like just always be in tune with yourself.
And I think as long as you have that, you're kind of know approximately where you need,
like you need some alone time, you need to talk to your friends, you need some support
from outside or you need some support within.
So it's just kind of having that compass inside and being a tune to it, which it takes time.
It's always a work in progress.
And no matter how much I always think, oh, I have it figured out, I'm good.
And then, you know, you get stressed out, you get anxious about exam coming up and then
you're stressed and then your whole compass is out of whack.
And you have to reset it because, you know, you've been focusing on other things.
You didn't have time to listen to yourself.
So and I think you're working on that.
And I always try to work on that.
And I think that is one of the bigger steps to maintain mental wellness too.
So yeah, thank you for sharing all that you shared about that part.
I firmly believe that focusing on mental wellness makes us more resilient in the long run and
makes it easier for us to handle any rejections that we face in the moment and any other setbacks
in life as well.
We're going to switch gears a little bit because this is a podcast focused on rejection and
mental wellness, but now we're going to talk about rejection a little bit.
So if you are comfortable with it, could you share any of the rejection stories that you've
experienced and then we'll go from there.
Sounds good.
I can start with the academic ones.
As I told you, I was pre-med.
You know, I'm pre-med.
So I guess high school experience, I didn't really have too many rejections in high school.
I did apply to a lot of scholarships and like, I think I was off by like 1% for a scholarship
and I was really sad about that when I got into uni and it would have helped me a lot
too financially, but I didn't get it.
So I think that was my first kind of rejection academically that really bothered me.
And then yeah, like I had good grades.
I was getting awards.
Like it was kind of my main focus, right?
I was like, I need to be good academically.
Like if I can't get to uni, I'm going to be really sad and just heartbroken.
So I got to get in and I did like early admission and they told me like a month before, like
I had this like yellow check mark for like the longest time.
And I was just like, does this mean I'm an in or not?
Like anything else?
So like, then I got in and I'm like, okay, this is nice.
Like it felt good.
Like went to bio and I did the first year of like science was very easy for me because
I had taken AP classes, but my grades took a hidden second year mostly because I didn't
have good study habits.
And I kind of underestimated uni.
I was like, if the first year is easy, how hard could the second year be?
Right.
And then I also started joining a lot of clubs.
It was all these random different clubs, like clubs we've happened and I just signed up
for everything.
And my time got so distributed that I wasn't really giving economics as much priority.
So my grades took ahead.
I mean, second years around the time you considered you want to write the MCAT or not, right?
Start taking all these prerecourses for med.
Do I really want to write the MCAT?
So in second year, I was like, my grades took a hit.
I don't think my GP is going to be that good to even get in.
And a lot of people will write the MCAT.
And I was like a bit unsure.
I was like, I started thinking, I'm like, okay, like I want to do so many different things
like in my life and just with like school.
And I'm just like, I love medicine and healing, but do I have to do it through being a doctor?
Like I had this, I had a bit of seat of doubt coming into my mind of like, there's so much
the world has to offer.
I started thinking about like innovation entrepreneurship too.
I think when I joined clubs and papers and I was like, what if I create something?
Right.
So I started thinking more like that.
So second year went by and then I was like, okay, I'm in the third year and it took a
biostatistics course.
There was programming in it.
I learned R and I was like, in third year, this was in 2018.
I was like, okay, like I learned R.
It seems kind of fun, you know, like coding is satisfying.
I feel good.
Coding has a lot of rejections in it too, because your code doesn't work and it kind
of tests your resilience.
And I was like, okay, I started thinking about like computer science and tech.
And I was like, maybe I might go into this in the future and sort of thinking differently.
I didn't end up writing the MCAP because I was kind of like, I don't think my study
habits are where they should be.
And I don't think I have the commitment that's needed because I want to try other things
out.
So I didn't end up writing it.
A lot of my friends did and they wrote it like two times.
They wrote three times and a lot of people I know switched into other fields too.
And I was like, okay, like it's okay.
Right.
Like at first it was very hard, accepting the fact that I don't want to go to med school.
Like I was very committed to that whole dream of it.
You know, like I had this whole ideology and feeling and I was meeting a lot of like
prospective people that we're going to get into and I could feel that they were going
to get in.
And I was like, I was like, yeah, it was very hard for me to let go of that medicine
dream I had in my head.
And just like I was thinking about like how my friends would react, how my family would
be reactive, just like me becoming a doctor and me not becoming a doctor.
So I was trying to look at two separate like futures, like alternate realities.
And I was just like, okay, at the end of the day, I want to heal people as long as I'm
on that healing journey.
I think that's okay.
If I inspire people, that's also something I want.
If I can innovate, if I can create, if I can do good work, that's another thing.
So I started looking at my values and I was like, what do I value at the end of the day
and how do I help society?
And I was like, I don't have to be a doctor to heal people.
You know, exactly.
Like I found other ways.
I was like, okay, found out I was good at teaching.
I started tutoring a lot.
And I got involved with the youth and I started mentoring.
I started just talking to them.
I was just like, yeah, there's going to be a lot of places in time.
We're going to be perseverant and have resilience and you're going to go through some dark times
and you're going to feel lonely and you're going to kind of feel like, how do I overcome
these emotions?
And I was like, this is what I went through and I'm still trying to figure it out.
But like, you know, keep these things in mind.
You kind of need to feel your emotions.
Like at one point, I think in university, I started becoming very detached from my emotions
as like a survival mechanism of being like, I'm just going to put this at the side.
I'm going to bury this emotion.
I can't feel this right now.
So I became a bit detached from things and I was like, yeah, I'm getting through things,
but I'm not really feeling life anymore.
Like I feel like life happens when you're in the moment and you're present and you're
feeling what you're feeling and like you kind of accept those emotions.
So a lot of my emotions, I was even rejecting.
So it's kind of like, I was rejecting what I was feeling.
I was kind of like, I need to not feel this way.
And I was just putting it off to the side.
And then I let go of the med dream and I was like, okay, I still have my values.
I still have things that I have to do in this life.
So I'll pursue those.
Like I'll innovate, I'll create, I'll help people where I can, I'll heal.
And I'll just try to learn from my own journey and I'll try to pass on a wisdom.
The med school thing, like didn't feel as painful when I found other passions that kind
of made me feel happy.
I'm still doing what I wanted to do is just not in that setting, you know, like it's still
happening.
It's just not in the way that I always imagined it to be.
And I eventually I became okay with that, you know, like it took time.
It took like three, four years and I was just like, look, it's fine.
And then COVID happened and then I was lost again.
And I was like, what do I do now?
Like I finished my bio degree.
I'm still thinking of medicine in the back of my head.
Like I haven't entirely let it go.
It was just like, I couldn't do it at that time.
But I'm like, maybe if I'm older, I might go and pursue it again.
Who knows, right?
Like, you never know.
In COVID, I tried to move into tech and I did analytics and I got into this whole data
stuff.
And even like when I was trying to go to med, like I wanted to know statistics of like how
many people in the population suffer from this illness, how many people are cured of
this illness, how many people have a rare illness.
Like I was always asking numerical questions in my head of like, how many people are really
going through this?
So if I'm trying to solve this problem, how big of a problem is it?
You know?
So yeah, that was like a bit of like kind of accepting not going to med school.
And then it kind of started with that.
At one point, I thought I got better with rejection.
I was going through so many academic rejections at times because I was like already navigating
this space of like, it's okay if you don't get something right away.
It's like, it doesn't come the way you want it to.
So I learned to accept that like life has its own plan for you.
You have your own plan in your head.
And sometimes it doesn't always go according to plan and that's okay.
The detour might actually lead you to something better.
So I was like, I need to be someone who can move along in life, like with my thoughts,
with my goals and just progress.
Like I think the biggest thing I should be looking for is progression.
And I shouldn't be comparing my story to anyone else's story.
I should live my story.
I should own it.
And I should see where I was a year earlier.
So I started thinking like that.
And I kind of learned to deal with rejection like that too.
I'm like, it's okay.
If I don't get something now, I'll get it later.
But I'll put in all the effort.
So at the end of the day, I feel like I did my best, right?
And I got to learn to be happy with my best, whatever it is at that time.
And I used to be very self-critical and just be very hard on myself.
But I'm like, that doesn't feel right.
Like if I were to do that to a friend, that would be wrong.
If I were to do that to myself, that's also wrong.
Like I need to have more self-love and compassion and empathy for myself.
And if I do that in my own mind, then I can give it to someone else as well.
Right?
So I have to practice that.
So I kind of started thinking about rejection like that.
And I'm just like, okay, like I need to change how I view rejection.
It's not necessarily like, no, doesn't mean no, it could be next opportunity.
So I need to look for the next opportunity.
That's how I started thinking.
And I was like, okay, what's the next best thing I can do?
What can I do after this?
Like I got a plan for both cases.
I got a plan for success, but I also got a plan for rejection.
That mindset got me to where I am today.
At one point, like because I got good with dealing with these emotions, like I was very
detached at one point in my life.
And then I became very like in tune with my emotions.
And then I built the process of how I should deal with rejection.
You are being vulnerable.
Trying to.
It's very hard.
It is hard.
It's very hard.
But if we quote Brene Brown, that is the path to finding belonging.
That is the path to finding peace and happiness, true happiness.
And it's so scary putting yourself out there.
I guess that leads to my next question.
Take either of the rejections you've experienced.
How did you feel when you did face those rejections?
The difference in academic rejection and romantic rejection, like academic rejections are easier
to deal with.
It was more of like, yeah, I didn't get this thing now, but there'll be another opportunity
and I can see that opportunity.
With romantic rejection, it was kind of like, I don't know when the opportunity is going
to come.
I also don't know if I'm going to be able to rise to the challenge and I don't know
if I'm going to be able to recover.
I think romantic rejections, you're in more of a cloudy space than you are with academic
rejection.
Just because academic rejection, it feels like it's easier to quantify at times, right?
It's like, okay, I didn't make this round of the MCAT cycle.
I might go to the next round, right?
Like you know that there's another thing coming.
But with romantic rejections, it's like, damn, I know everything that went wrong.
I was attached.
I had all these feelings.
I have to spread that out and kind of unpack them and it's more of a journey, right?
So I think with romantic rejections, it was like, I subconsciously knew that like, I'm
not going to be able to deal with the academic rejection if I get a romantic rejection.
So I kind of just detached myself emotionally.
I was like, I just need to get through the school stuff and then it's okay.
I'll get romantically rejected after that because at that point I'll have a degree and
get rejected.
Yes.
That's kind of how I thought about it in my head.
I was like, I achieved something.
So I still have something of value.
But even if I get rejected, I'll be like, I still overcame something in my life.
You know, I have something in terms of managing those feelings.
I tried at times to go to like student wellness services.
I tried to go to academic support and none of that was helping.
But what was helping was hearing stories from like classmates or like other people and like
hearing a real life story was really helping me because I could be like, I know so and
so they went through this.
This is how they dealt with it.
This is how they overcome it.
So I think when I had a feeling that I couldn't really fully understand or feel what I tried
was I talked to people.
Like, hey, like I feel like this or like I'm going through something like this and that
kind of helped me to find community and support.
And I think like solely over time I got through it and like in terms of managing feelings,
I think I have to be very honest with myself and authentic.
I don't like being an authentic because it's not true.
I'm lying to two people.
I'm lying to you and I'm lying to me.
Right.
And it's like, that's two wrongs.
So that's how I see it in my head.
I'm like, if I can be honest and authentic and that truth will spread across and attract
more truth and that will probably give me an answer that I need.
Right.
And I'm like, okay, I have to somehow be honest with myself.
And even if it hurts, I need to accept that it happened and I need to acknowledge and
validate it.
And that's different for everybody.
I think some people like this stages of like grief, like there's like denial is like the
first stage and first you're like, no, this didn't happen.
It's like a reaction mechanism.
Like you try to push yourself through it by denying it.
Right.
Honestly, that's not the way to overcome those feelings.
You have to accept and acknowledge that.
Yeah, this did happen.
And you have to tell yourself like it's okay.
That's life.
Things like this do happen in life.
It happened now.
If I happen later, it's okay.
And then you kind of like, okay.
You try to have self love for yourself and you're like, yeah, like I still love myself
at the end of the day.
As long as it can be a better person from this and grow, I think it's fine.
Right.
If I use this as fuel to lead me to a better outcome, then it's fine.
Like it won't be as bad as I felt.
Right.
You have to own the feelings.
You have to accept them, acknowledge them.
And then sometimes you have to talk to people as well.
You have to like rant, you know, like I used to not like ranting.
I hated ranting.
I'm like, why would I go to a person and just rant?
And yeah.
And sometimes people would be like, you should then I didn't understand that for most of my
life until I started doing it because when I would get angry, right?
I learned to hold back a lot of things and hold back emotions and just be tolerant.
I think my tolerance levels very high.
So to tip me off the edge of person really has to do a lot.
And that's when I start venting and I'd be like, damn, like this is really, really pissing
me off.
You know, and then it would come out.
And I realized that like, okay, like honestly, I should be talking about these things because
it brings peace if someone's genuinely listening and they really care for you and they hear
you out and they kind of acknowledge it's happening.
Like it's easier to find peace in those feelings that you might not find in your head.
And I realized that and I'm like, damn, I should have been talking about this more, but
I just wasn't comfortable being vulnerable.
I wasn't comfortable putting myself out there because I felt like it was hard for me to
trust people.
And I also felt like people wouldn't understand, you know, like most of my life, people didn't
understand.
Like how are they going to understand now?
Even on Reddit, like a lot of people go through it, you're feeling and it's like, damn, strangers
are going through what I'm feeling.
Right.
So I kind of found that like sense of like, yeah, okay, if I talk about it, the universe
will help me acknowledge it and try to find peace within it.
Right.
And ultimately that's what I'm looking for too.
I can definitely relate to what you're saying because even though I always try to be open
person and good person, when I was feeling difficult emotions, I almost felt like maybe
because by default I grew up with people pleasing habits and I almost don't want to burden
people.
So I'm thinking of them and at least that's what I used to think like.
And I didn't want to experience those emotions because I don't want to be an inconvenience
to someone else because I felt if I'm going to talk and vent, I'm going to wear them out.
So you know, that's how it was.
But then having that same realization that it's okay, actually helps you to process.
If you talk about your feelings as they come and they can be very painful.
And that's what I have faced with my rejection from jobs as I was applying or med school
or MCAP because I wrote that three times and talking to people about that, even though
they didn't fully understand what I was going through because I mean, they've not been
in my shoes, but they were just there as a listening ear just there and me talking about
it helped me process what I was feeling.
So it was part of acknowledging my emotions.
I was letting myself grieve and I was not feeling bad about it.
So I think that was really the first step to processing it.
And then that would lead me to moving on in a healthy way because yeah, venting and ranting,
there's no, there's no harm in that at all, especially, you know, you're going through
something, let people help you, let them be there for you and you're not burdening them.
If they're your people, they'll be happy to support you.
They'll be happy to listen to you.
Just got to trust yourself and trust them that it's okay to vent and rant about whatever
you're going through and then the rest will be just fine.
So yeah.
100%.
No, I can totally relate because I also felt that burden thing, but I also felt like, how
do I, like it was very hard for me to even talk about it.
And there were some people that they were very good at getting you to open up and talk.
So I'm like, it did come out at times and I was like, okay.
So I do have a side that wants to talk about it and people are getting it out.
And at one point other people would find out and be like, hey, I was your friend and you
didn't even tell me, like you don't get offended.
It would be like, dude, you were supposed to tell me.
That happened to me.
Yeah.
It happened so many times that I was like, damn, people are mad at me for not talking.
Like you were supposed to tell me I would have helped you.
Like you just kept it to yourself.
Like this was the moment we could have bonded.
I was like, damn, like I was taking up that.
Yeah.
And there's a balance too.
Like we were saying part of me does want to talk to people to manage those feelings,
another part of me, maybe at first I want to be alone with those feelings.
So people should not ideally people should not get mad at you for not telling you sooner
because well, you need time to process it on your own maybe because everyone's processing
is different and someone as soon as like a breakup happens, for example, they'll straight
up just right away call their closest friend or family member and tell them about it.
Or someone might take a week to even reveal that it happened because they're in shock.
Like they feel that and they need to process it and they need to understand what just happened.
So, you know, just like don't force yourself to talk to other people because yeah, processing,
talking to other people, inventing helps manage your feelings and helps process whatever
is happening.
But at the same time, it's okay if you want to just be by yourself with that event that
just happened and then go on to tell when you're ready, that might serve you better.
That might give you more clarity.
So yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Like you got to know when to kind of respond to what's happened to like whatever stage
you're at, right?
Like if you're at the processing stage or at the talking stage, you kind of need to
know where you are.
And self-awareness is tricky, you know?
Like some people have it.
Apparently, some people don't even have an inner monologue.
There's a statistic on this.
Like I don't know what the exact number is, but some people literally don't have an inner
monologue.
You know, like they're not talking to themselves.
So I'm like, how would you process and grow through something if you're not even having
an inner dialogue or monologue with yourself?
Yeah, be friends with yourself.
Like, you know, the good and the bad parts, you know?
As hard as it may be sometimes, but I accept all of it.
100% like you got to understand aspects of your light and your shadow, you know, like
you need to understand how both coexist.
That's kind of how I see it.
Like we have aspects of us that just shine bright and very light, you know, like they'll
brighten up a room, but then we also have this darkness.
Those two things coexist with each other and it's kind of like a yin and yang push and
pull type of thing.
And in their unity, there's beauty.
So you have to find a way to kind of bridge the two, you know, and let them coexist.
And once you accept yourself like that, that's when I think unconditional love comes in.
And that's a very powerful force.
Like if you're able to love yourself to that extent, and other people feel that I think
everyone starts healing, you know, like healing comes from a sense of peace and stability
and love for yourself and compassion.
And kind of like if you have that soft spot for yourself, then you can heal yourself.
But if you're so rigid and stuck and kind of hard locked in, like it's like, how do
you heal?
Right?
Like, yeah, like that wound will keep bleeding.
It'll run dry.
Like you can't heal it.
You gotta find some way to add medicine to heal that wound or trauma and love.
Right?
So it's like, that's kind of how I see it as.
And I think it's hard to do.
It's easier said than done, but like it's a journey, right?
And I think every person has to embark on that journey for themselves.
Like we owe it to ourselves to love ourselves conditionally and heal whatever we've been
through.
It's important to see that you're able to overcome things and get to the other side,
you know, and feel the strength that you have.
I feel like every person has strength internally, sometimes you still have a hard time accessing
it.
Like you were saying that it all starts with awareness and acknowledgement and hopefully
it will lead you to a place where you have love for yourself and have that soft spot
for yourself.
And I really love what you said, the strength to overcome rejection setbacks.
It's within all of us.
And it's true.
You gotta believe in yourself and you gotta unlock it.
And it might take more time to believe in yourself, especially when that rejection just
happened or that setback just happened.
Whether it's in relationships, whether it's academic, whether it's career, it could be
hard.
Maybe you're like right away, you're like, Oh, I'll be fine, which is amazing.
If you feel that way, that's amazing.
But if you don't write away, that's okay too.
But eventually just know that you'll be okay.
And that strength is within you.
It just might take time to come out.
So I love your message about that.
I guess that leads us to our next question that relates to that.
How did you overcome those rejections eventually and has your focus on mental wellness since
junior high helped you navigate and overcome those setbacks?
I think I'm still trying to overcome some things.
Like I said, it's a lifelong journey.
Because I think of it more of like a lesson.
And sometimes it's a life lesson.
You spend your whole life trying to solve that lesson.
I feel like I've overcome a lot of things, but then I also found new things that I needed
to overcome.
As much as you solve the rejection and you move past it, you come across another one.
They keep coming.
Rejections don't stop.
I think they're just a part of life.
And it's about finding the peace and the rejection.
It's about learning from it.
In terms of jobs, like in the data field, I've probably applied to over a thousand jobs
and been rejected for most of them.
You know, like the generic email of being like, yeah, we moved on to another applicant.
They don't even tell you why you're rejected.
You don't even know if it's a real person talking to you.
I faced like rejection in the jobs just like every day.
And sometimes I get successes too.
Like I changed my approach.
I talked to recruiters.
I talked to people I know.
You try to talk to a human.
That usually helps.
So in terms of that, like, yeah, I'm still getting rejections all the time, but that's
okay.
That's part of life, right?
My brother, like what he says, you just need one opportunity.
And I've also heard that from other people too.
One opportunity to cause like a effect, like a domino effect and change your trajectory.
So as long as you believe that that one opportunity can come, I think you should be fine at the
end of the day.
You know, and then once you acknowledge those emotions and those rejections, like they don't
seem as big anymore.
I think we tend to make things very big in our head.
Like we let it snowball into like a mountain, you know, and they're like, after climb this
mountain.
And it's actually not that big.
It's just our way of thinking because we're trapped inside our own mind, right?
It's like a maze.
So like trying to get outside of your head, you know, like try to talk to people and whenever
you're ready, right?
Whenever you feel like it's okay for you and slowly over time, like you realize like it's
okay.
Like it happened.
I'm a better person because of it.
And I'll keep going, you know, and maybe I'll move on to something better.
Who knows, right?
Like maybe what I wasn't thinking in my head was not the best outcome, but life will give
me a better outcome that I wouldn't even have imagined.
It's all perspective, I think.
Exactly.
It just, it depends on your perception and how you view things.
We're just kind of throwing different advice here and there, but really just depends on
your inner compass and what your way of processing it could be.
So definitely listen to what your inner voice is saying.
And maybe right away, the rejection will hit you.
Maybe like the feeling of rejection will hit you.
Maybe it'll hit you later.
Maybe it will never hit you.
You know, it's, there's just so many probabilities and so many different ways of how people process
things that it's impossible to tell them all on this episode, but just, you know, be with
yourself, listen to your inner voice, whatever it is you're going through, have compassion
for yourself.
Either way, thank you so much for sharing your rejection experience is what you learned
from it.
You know, it's always amazing when guests come out here and they share this because we don't
talk about rejection stories enough.
And because behind every success story, there is a rejection story.
We just don't like putting that on social media.
We don't like promoting that, but it's true.
And acknowledging it, I think, makes us more holistic and authentic people.
So, you know, rejection is a universal experience.
Everyone experiences it.
And, you know, if this podcast does one thing, I do hope that the listeners and those who
are supporters of this podcast, I hope that they get more comfortable acknowledging rejection
in their life, acknowledging that it does lead to some good things.
It's not innately negative, although it may feel that way when you first go through that.
It depends on our perceptions and a lot of it is in our head.
We don't want to hear that probably, but it's about changing that perception of rejection,
which eventually we do come to that if we let ourselves get to that point.
Now let's dive into a question that we both found intriguing and explored through our
research online.
As I said earlier, in a lot of my podcast episodes and just like my social media and
my content, I often conclude that leading on our support systems is one of the most
effective ways to overcome setbacks and rejection.
And it does enhance our overall mental health if we let other people support us and we lean
on those support systems.
But it's not always clear to people supporting us or someone else who is facing rejection,
how they can provide the right kind of help.
So it'll be really nice if we could talk about how it is to support someone, how does that
work, what to say, what not to say.
And I think that could provide an extra perspective to those facing rejection, maybe to help themselves
process it and also maybe support others who are facing it.
You can start if you want.
So what did you find through your research?
How do you think we should support people who go through rejection?
How do you wish people supported you?
I'll talk about my own process and I'll talk about what we looked up.
So for me, if someone's going to come to me with a rant or a venture, just talk about
what's going on in their head, I just let them do it.
I'm just like, let me create a space for you that's open, that's vulnerable, that's a safe
space, a brave space.
You can say anything you want.
Just talk your thoughts out.
Whatever you're going through, just speak it out loud.
People start breaking down too, actually.
When they start talking, I've had a couple of instances where I've let someone talk and
they've started crying.
Because they're strong and they've been through it so many times, they kind of wipe their
tears and move past it.
And sometimes it happens back and forth.
They'll talk, they'll cry, they'll stop crying, they'll talk again, they'll cry, they'll
stop talking, it kind of happens.
I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with people breaking down.
So they don't know how to deal with it.
All you really have to do is just have to be present and let the person feel what they're
feeling and just let them know that you're there.
I think some people also will hold your hand or they'll try to comfort you.
I kind of just let the person go through it.
I'm here, I'm listening, I'm acknowledging what's happening.
If you need me to hug you, I can do that.
If you need me to hold your hand, I can do that.
But do whatever is comfortable.
Just be you in the moment, experience it.
And then once you feel it and you let those emotions out, because I think a lot of people
have a hard time feeling their emotions, if you let them feel it, they start healing.
Their inner voice is talking, they find the answer.
Other times, if someone's talking to me and they're telling their story, I'll kind of
be like, can I relate to this?
Can I help them?
Can I support them?
I won't give them an answer, but let me see if I have something similar.
And then I try to connect to it and tune in and I wait and I listen.
And then if they want me to talk, I'll start sharing.
But sometimes a person just wants you to listen.
So you have to kind of call and be like, do they want me to talk or do they want me to
listen?
Where are they at?
Usually you got to just listen.
And sometimes they come back to you and then they'll be like, what do you think?
Or am I crazy?
If they ask a question, I'll usually share.
They'll be like, if this happened to you, am I crazy?
Then I'll start talking about myself.
I usually should just let them go through what they're going through and eventually
you can share, but you have to know when to call it.
Right?
I think the other thing is like, don't devalue what they're going through, what they're facing.
Don't compare it necessarily.
It's still painful for them.
They're still feeling it.
I know in one of our videos, it was like, if someone went through a breakup, don't be
like, oh, that person was bad or that person wasn't good for you.
They're feeling these emotions.
They're connected to that person.
You're putting that person down.
They already feel down.
It's kind of like you're snowballing negative emotion.
What you have to do is you have to snowball peace.
You have to make a domino effect of like, how do I let this person feel what they feel?
And then eventually they'll find their own way to cheer them up.
I think everyone has a secret kind of way to cheer them up.
Some people do food.
Some people do events.
Some people just do, I don't know, alone time.
I know if I was sad and someone brought me like a blizzard or a cake or something sweet
or like something crunchy, I'd get happy.
I could be crying and smiling at the same time.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
It's like sometimes people are really good on picking up.
Once they spend enough time with you, they kind of know how to make you feel good.
So it's like, okay, here, here's a furrow rosher.
I know you're going through all this, but like here, eat this or like have this and
I'm a foodie.
So if someone brought food to me and I'm like upset, I'd probably start feeling better.
But not everyone is like that.
Like you were saying there's no right or wrong way to feel.
You gotta observe people's needs.
I know I get angry.
Like I don't want anyone.
I'm like, just stay away.
Yeah.
That's me.
Like it depends.
I'm like sad, I do want to hug, but like, you know, there's no right or wrong way to
feel and I know that like when I get frustrated, some people that know me and try to support
me, they get uncomfortable because they're not comfortable with that anger.
Like you said, try to provide that space for whatever the person is feeling, let them
feel it, help them feel safe in the space.
Whatever they're feeling is okay.
That's the message you're trying to hopefully trying to portray.
Like there's no right or wrong way to feel.
Everyone's going to process it differently.
Whatever they're going through, whether it's like a breakup or a rejection or like something
big or small, you know, and ideally to provide that safe space where people are free to feel
what they want to feel and not shaming them for it, not judging them for it.
Also being comfortable with your emotions because how can you provide a space for a
person to feel whatever they're feeling?
If you're not comfortable with your own feelings and emotions, reiterate some of the things
that we were saying, telling people to relax or calm down or when they're sad or upset,
that doesn't always go down well.
It doesn't work as tempting as it is to say, I'm tempted to say that when I'm trying to
help someone, I'm just like, calm down.
It's not worth it.
But you know, they're not feeling that way in the moment.
They're feeling the emotions and that's not what they want to hear.
But yeah, just being observant of what they need.
And then also, I'm sure that it's kind of, well, it's obvious to a lot of people, but
not everybody because you know, we all fall into different patterns, but don't imply that
the person who needs support is somehow incompetent because of what they're feeling.
So it's like, if you had your life together more, you wouldn't be feeling this way or
be like, stop crying.
That's not helpful.
That's just feels like an insult at that point.
And you don't want to say that either when the person is hurting.
Yeah.
That's what I have to say.
Anything I forgot to add, maybe you have something to add on.
So I think that basically sums it up and validate them, try to understand, listen.
And I guess also figured out they're looking for a solution or if they just want to be
heard and then approach accordingly.
Like you got to do a lot on your part to be emotionally stable and then also just kind
of know what the person needs, right?
And meet them there.
And definitely have compassion for yourself, both sides.
Person who's there supporting you also should have compassion for you, obviously.
Self-compassion as well because it's not always easy to console someone who's going
through those difficult emotions, something that feels like a difficult emotion.
But we are soon coming to an end of this episode.
Any last thoughts or main takeaways you have, Girmal, for the listeners before we wrap up?
Yeah.
I think the best thing is to meet yourself where you are and just acknowledge what's
going on and just find a way to not be too hard on yourself.
Like, tell yourself that it's okay and I'll get through it and be patient.
It might not resolve itself right away.
I do think time heals a lot of things and it sends you people on your journey that want
to help you heal and support you.
So let people in when they're needed.
Probably have your own processing time.
But I think sometimes life will send you people that either they need to tell you something
or you got to hear something.
They're going to give you resources and just soak those in and then that will help you
on your journey, right?
So don't always be closed off.
You open for a hug sometimes too.
It might help you.
Yes, it might help you, yes.
Yeah.
So that's kind of all I got from my end.
And where can the listeners connect with you?
You can connect with me on LinkedIn, has probably the most professional way of connecting.
You can also like connect with me on Instagram if you like.
I can drop a handle later.
I'm out of the community.
Like I'm at platform Calgary.
I'm in startup entrepreneurship stuff.
I'm at the university.
I'm in downtown a lot.
So maybe the listeners might run into me if they're in the same place.
Have a blog to one medium so you can reach out to me there too.
And I think my email is on there.
There's a lot of ways to reach me.
Just search me up and you'll find something.
Yeah, we'll put it in show notes too.
Sounds good.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Gremel, for appearing on this podcast.
It was really, well, a pleasure talking to you and learning all about your experiences
and your insights.
You have so many insights.
Gosh, like so much to learn.
I'm going to process this in journal about this after I'm sure.
So thank you so much.
And I'm very excited to be releasing this episode because it just shows how much rejection
is a universal experience.
And then behind every success story is a rejection or a failure in story.
And then the more you succeed, the more you fail.
I think it's just the way of life and how it just works.
But I would love to hear from all of you listening and what you liked about this episode and
what topics you want me to cover in the future episodes.
So please DM me on Instagram or LinkedIn to share your insights.
Additionally, if you'd like to support the podcast and the rest of my content, you can
now buy me a metaphorical coffee and the link for that will also be in the show notes.
This was Volieria Rusnak, the host of the Rejected Prima Podcast.
I thank you for listening and I'll see you next time.