WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.600 Tony Payne: Hello again. 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:04.770 I'm Tony Payne and welcome to the Centre for Christian Living Podcast here at Moore College. 00:00:05.250 --> 00:00:09.210 Really great to be with you again as we try to bring biblical ethics to everyday issues. 00:00:09.630 --> 00:00:13.050 And today's everyday issue is dating apps. 00:00:13.050 --> 00:00:16.470 Now, that's two words that I'm not used to putting together, dating, which, 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:22.110 from what I can remember when dating was a thing that was in my life, you'd sort of met somebody and if you liked them, 00:00:22.110 --> 00:00:26.910 you sort of asked them out for a coffee or dinner or something, and that was getting to know someone going on a date. 00:00:27.210 --> 00:00:29.490 But apparently now it all happens via apps. 00:00:29.580 --> 00:00:36.420 And in this conversation between Pete Orr and Jocelyn Bignill, who's done quite a bit of thinking on this 00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:41.730 topic, the conversation is about how Christians should think about online dating in this kind of way. 00:00:41.730 --> 00:00:44.910 Many, many Christian people—younger people especially, of course— 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.320 use dating apps as a way of meeting people, and Christians do this as well. 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.560 How should we navigate this area as Christians? 00:00:51.590 --> 00:00:53.600 What are the strengths and weaknesses of this approach? 00:00:54.075 --> 00:00:55.905 And what are the dangers to be aware of? 00:00:56.145 --> 00:01:02.055 It's an important subject and not just for those of us who are in the stage of life, where it's directly relevant to us and to how 00:01:02.055 --> 00:01:08.025 we meet people and get to know people through dating, but also for those of us who maybe have kids who are getting to that point 00:01:08.025 --> 00:01:14.775 in life where this is going to be relevant for them as well, and helping our young adult and growing kids navigate this tricky area. 00:01:15.270 --> 00:01:20.635 I do hope you find this conversation useful between Pete Orr and Jocelyn Bignill on dating apps. 00:01:35.910 --> 00:01:39.510 Peter Orr: Hello, welcome to the Centre for Christian Living Podcast. 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:41.670 Today I'm joined by my 00:01:41.710 --> 00:01:42.820 friend, Jocelyn Bignill. 00:01:42.820 --> 00:01:49.179 This is the second time you've been on a podcast, Joss. You're one of the ministers at All Saints Peterson. 00:01:49.570 --> 00:01:52.300 Last time you told us a little bit about how you became a Christian. 00:01:52.330 --> 00:01:57.970 Why don't you start by just telling us a little bit about ministry at All Saints and particularly your own ministry. 00:01:58.270 --> 00:01:58.630 Jocelyn Bignill: Hi Pete. 00:01:58.630 --> 00:01:59.770 Thanks so much for having me. 00:02:00.039 --> 00:02:01.359 I really love being at All Saints. 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:08.155 This is my sixth year as the assistant minister and I got to be the student minister for two years before that as well. 00:02:08.910 --> 00:02:14.790 I'm an assistant minister in every sense of the word in that I'm a very generalist kind of role. 00:02:14.790 --> 00:02:23.040 I assist the minister and the ministry at All Saints, and that looks different every day, every week in lots of different things. 00:02:23.100 --> 00:02:25.230 I oversee youth and children's ministry. 00:02:25.470 --> 00:02:27.780 I'm particularly invested in women's discipleship. 00:02:28.260 --> 00:02:32.310 I get to do a lot of the background work and shaping and the services and music. 00:02:32.910 --> 00:02:38.640 I teach scripture, I run a growth group and help to organize the growth groups and write the Bible studies. 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:42.540 I could go on lots and lots of different wonderful things that I get to do, 00:02:42.630 --> 00:02:46.770 Peter Orr: and you do some great talks and you even write articles, and we're 00:02:46.770 --> 00:02:53.280 going to talk about an article that you are writing and it's on dating apps. 00:02:53.610 --> 00:02:56.490 No, that's not something that I've thought a lot about. 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:57.210 I'm glad to hear it. 00:02:58.230 --> 00:03:00.450 Why did you write the article on dating apps? 00:03:00.735 --> 00:03:06.855 Jocelyn Bignill: Dating apps are a relatively new phenomenon if we're thinking in terms of our life histories or 00:03:06.855 --> 00:03:13.605 a generational history, and so I think we haven't done a lot of thinking about them as Christians, and I think 00:03:13.605 --> 00:03:19.245 that that means that there's some danger there for us as Christians in not having thought this through well. 00:03:19.755 --> 00:03:23.535 Dating apps present all kinds of challenges and obstacles. 00:03:23.745 --> 00:03:30.495 And so as Christians, we really need to reflect on is this a helpful platform for us to be engaging with? 00:03:30.945 --> 00:03:39.975 And if it is, how do I engage with dating apps wisely in a way that's going to help me to continue to grow in my godliness and Christian character? 00:03:40.485 --> 00:03:42.585 And that's true for people who are using them. 00:03:42.915 --> 00:03:49.245 But I also think in my own role as a pastor, I'm thinking about people in my congregation and church family. 00:03:50.085 --> 00:03:56.325 I'm thinking about other pastors as well and whether they've thought this through and how are they helping people 00:03:56.325 --> 00:04:03.075 in their churches discipling them through this process of using dating apps and whether or not it's a good idea. 00:04:03.375 --> 00:04:04.335 I think there's a gap in our. 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:06.630 Thinking in our reflection at the moment. 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:06.990 Peter Orr: Yeah. 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:11.670 When we first talked about it, that was the thing that really struck me was, okay, if we, if we wanna be caring for people in 00:04:11.670 --> 00:04:17.730 our churches, and this is the world that we live in, we need to be helping people to think about this reality in a Christian way. 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:24.060 So the articles is so helpful and you start in a slightly surprising place. 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.300 You start by saying you don't need to go on dating apps. 00:04:27.330 --> 00:04:28.230 What did you mean by that? 00:04:29.130 --> 00:04:33.540 Jocelyn Bignill: I think that if you are a single person, I'm a single person for context. 00:04:33.945 --> 00:04:37.484 As a single person, you can feel pressure that you have to go on a dating app. 00:04:37.515 --> 00:04:43.844 If you're serious about wanting to meet someone, well then you've gotta be on a dating app because that's the only way people meet now. 00:04:44.085 --> 00:04:49.755 So I think that people can feel really pressured into using dating apps, and that's really unhelpful. 00:04:50.174 --> 00:04:55.125 God will work in our lives regardless of whether it's through an app or not. 00:04:55.935 --> 00:05:00.135 And you are not going to go on an app and instantly meet the love of your life. 00:05:00.525 --> 00:05:03.135 This is not the thing that God is waiting for you to do. 00:05:03.465 --> 00:05:07.635 To meet a partner, but it can feel like, or we can have that message from other people 00:05:08.205 --> 00:05:11.745 that if you were really serious about wanting to meet someone, you would go on an app. 00:05:12.375 --> 00:05:13.365 You don't need to do that. 00:05:13.515 --> 00:05:14.355 That's not true. 00:05:14.775 --> 00:05:19.635 So if you're feeling pressured to try dating apps, you don't need to feel pressured. 00:05:19.935 --> 00:05:23.295 You can say no to people speaking that into your life. 00:05:23.835 --> 00:05:28.485 You might decide, actually, dating apps are not a good platform for me to be on. 00:05:28.935 --> 00:05:32.055 They're going to make me feel anxious, they're going to make me feel discontent. 00:05:32.475 --> 00:05:37.755 They are just not a helpful way for me to engage with people, and that's a good decision to make. 00:05:38.205 --> 00:05:42.345 So one side of the equation is I think that people can feel pressured. 00:05:42.555 --> 00:05:46.365 Peter Orr: Have you seen that in your experience, people that you've ministered to, that you've seen that 00:05:46.365 --> 00:05:49.875 they have this kind of pressure, that they feel that this is an area that they need to be engaging in? 00:05:50.085 --> 00:05:50.685 Jocelyn Bignill: Yeah, definitely. 00:05:50.685 --> 00:05:56.535 I. At our church in particular, we have lots of single women, younger and older, and 00:05:56.595 --> 00:06:01.365 there is this kind of a little bit of a feeling of, am I ever going to meet someone? 00:06:01.845 --> 00:06:06.855 And people express that, and that's a really normal and okay way to feel. 00:06:07.365 --> 00:06:12.255 And I think then they can feel like, well, I have to be doing this, or I'm not actually giving it a go. 00:06:12.255 --> 00:06:13.635 So I'm definitely seeing that. 00:06:14.085 --> 00:06:16.845 Among people in my church, and I felt that pressure myself as well. 00:06:17.085 --> 00:06:22.335 It's been suggested to me to use dating apps by a number of people in ways that they're wanting to be 00:06:22.335 --> 00:06:28.725 helpful, and I'm not averse to being suggested that, but I certainly don't want anyone to feel pressured. 00:06:28.815 --> 00:06:29.985 Peter Orr: So no pressure. 00:06:29.985 --> 00:06:35.595 You don't need to go on dating apps, but you also argue in the article that you can go on a dating app. 00:06:35.775 --> 00:06:35.865 Hmm. 00:06:36.345 --> 00:06:36.705 Jocelyn Bignill: Yeah. 00:06:36.795 --> 00:06:37.335 Certainly. 00:06:37.695 --> 00:06:42.705 The other side of the equation is that it can feel like maybe Christians shouldn't use these apps. 00:06:43.005 --> 00:06:49.695 And I think that maybe if we haven't thought through dating apps or don't know a lot about them, the Christian conservative thing is 00:06:49.695 --> 00:06:56.805 to jump to the conclusion of, oh, we just shouldn't use them without really exploring the idea of this kind of platform or technology. 00:06:57.465 --> 00:07:05.415 So I would say yes, Christians can use dating apps with the caveat that we need to do a lot of thought and 00:07:05.415 --> 00:07:11.985 exercise, a lot of wisdom and discernment and be really careful because they are a place where we can be tempted. 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:13.110 To sin. 00:07:13.650 --> 00:07:18.960 They are a place where we can be tempted to make unwise decisions that are going to hinder our 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:25.530 Christian growth, but they can also be a, a place where you start a really wonderful relationship. 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.960 So just because there're are some inherent stumbling blocks, I don't think that means that. 00:07:31.365 --> 00:07:33.555 Christians should not use dating apps. 00:07:33.675 --> 00:07:36.315 So what's a Godly way to use a dating app? 00:07:36.585 --> 00:07:43.395 The first thing that I wanna assert, and I believe this very strongly and think that every Christian should believe this, is that 00:07:43.395 --> 00:07:51.465 Christians date Christians, not only do Christians date Christians, but they date mature Christians whose lives are shaped by the gospel. 00:07:52.065 --> 00:07:58.425 So when you're on a dating app, be really upfront about your faith and when you're looking at other people's profiles. 00:07:58.740 --> 00:07:59.910 Be looking for. 00:07:59.969 --> 00:08:08.370 Not only have they kind of ticked the Christian religious box, but how is their love for Jesus reflected in their profile? 00:08:08.760 --> 00:08:13.050 If they're saying that their favorite Sunday activity is sleeping in and having brunch and 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:17.670 going to the beach, that might not be someone who's actually engaged in a church family. 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:25.050 If there's no other sign of loving Jesus or pursuing God in their profile, then. 00:08:25.455 --> 00:08:31.515 I think it's pretty safe to conclude this is not someone who's very serious about their faith and not someone I should be looking 00:08:31.515 --> 00:08:38.924 to enter into a relationship with, which when they tick a whole bunch of other boxes might be more tempting than it seems. 00:08:38.924 --> 00:08:43.424 I. Especially if you're getting really frustrated with the apps or you've been on there for a while 00:08:43.424 --> 00:08:48.824 and things haven't been working out, it's easy to start compromising on core things like that. 00:08:49.365 --> 00:08:52.995 Peter Orr: And I mean, I guess that applies obviously outside of using the app, but maybe in 00:08:53.055 --> 00:08:57.944 that context where you're feeling the pressure, it's much more tempting to your done outline. 00:08:58.095 --> 00:08:58.425 Jocelyn Bignill: Yeah. 00:08:58.425 --> 00:09:02.025 And you know, you are expressing an interest and availability. 00:09:02.055 --> 00:09:04.245 They're expressing an interest and availability. 00:09:04.699 --> 00:09:08.870 They might have liked your profile, so they're specifically expressing an interest in 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:13.490 you, and you've made it really obvious on your profile that you're a follower of Jesus. 00:09:14.060 --> 00:09:21.560 They might see that and still not think it's very important because of all the other amazing things they see about you on that profile. 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:26.490 They might downplay your faith, even though you've made it really obvious and upfront. 00:09:26.910 --> 00:09:35.970 Peter Orr: So that's the kind of core, non-negotiable aspect In the article, you talk about some sort of sensible wisdom approaches to using the apps. 00:09:35.970 --> 00:09:37.110 You wanna talk about some of those. 00:09:37.260 --> 00:09:44.850 Jocelyn Bignill: Another thing I think we undervalue as Christians and don't think about enough in our relationships is emotional intimacy. 00:09:45.450 --> 00:09:49.170 I read a really helpful book on dating that said. 00:09:49.635 --> 00:09:58.064 When you're dating someone, you're not looking to grow in intimacy with them, but in clarity, is this someone that I want to marry? 00:09:58.155 --> 00:10:02.265 Is this a person that is wise for me to pursue a relationship with? 00:10:03.105 --> 00:10:07.785 And I think that's a really helpful framework and way of thinking when you're approaching dating apps. 00:10:08.444 --> 00:10:10.635 I don't want to grow in intimacy with this person. 00:10:10.665 --> 00:10:13.725 I want to grow in clarity about whether or not this is someone I should date. 00:10:14.204 --> 00:10:17.204 And that can be true in our real life relationships as well. 00:10:17.715 --> 00:10:23.355 When you are having lots of long, late night conversations where you're both in your beds when you're sending 00:10:23.355 --> 00:10:29.475 pictures to each other or sharing things with each other, you can get really emotionally invested in a relationship 00:10:29.475 --> 00:10:37.035 that has really just been a few texts backwards and forwards, and this can lead down all kinds of unhelpful roads. 00:10:37.425 --> 00:10:43.875 For one thing, you don't know what other conversations this person is having, so you might be really emotionally invested. 00:10:44.204 --> 00:10:46.725 And women are more vulnerable to this. 00:10:46.785 --> 00:10:50.415 Men are too in some ways, but I think women are particularly vulnerable to this. 00:10:51.045 --> 00:10:55.905 And so you might be feeling like you're having a really deep connection with this person, 00:10:56.204 --> 00:10:59.805 but actually they're making that connection with a number of other people at the same time. 00:11:00.194 --> 00:11:07.814 And so you can end up really bearing your soul and then quite heartbroken, because these apps can be quite depersonalizing. 00:11:08.265 --> 00:11:13.305 It can feel like you're not connecting with a real person, and it's very easy to treat people. 00:11:14.565 --> 00:11:17.745 Now, you might be the victim of that, but you also might be the perpetrator. 00:11:18.045 --> 00:11:23.595 You might be the one that's connecting and being emotionally vulnerable and intimate with a number of people at once 00:11:24.075 --> 00:11:32.175 and really hurting people, it's really easy to not see people as fully fledged made in the image of God human beings. 00:11:32.610 --> 00:11:37.020 To see them all as only having value in the potential they have to be a partner 00:11:37.020 --> 00:11:37.230 Peter Orr: for you. 00:11:38.219 --> 00:11:39.270 That's very helpful. 00:11:39.270 --> 00:11:42.300 That idea that you're looking for clarity rather than intimacy. 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:48.990 You have a part a little bit later in the article, but I think close on where you talk about meeting online, not dating online. 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:50.550 I wanna say something about that. 00:11:50.790 --> 00:11:55.350 Jocelyn Bignill: Yeah, that's another line that I stole from somebody else that I thought was helpful. 00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:00.180 I think it's good to not keep that relationship online for an extended period of time. 00:12:00.525 --> 00:12:03.255 Don't be messaging back onto and forwards for weeks on end. 00:12:03.765 --> 00:12:04.995 Make a time to meet up. 00:12:05.415 --> 00:12:09.855 Now again, particularly if you're a woman, you need to be careful to be safe in the way you do that. 00:12:10.095 --> 00:12:11.325 This is a stranger. 00:12:11.715 --> 00:12:13.245 This is someone you do not know. 00:12:13.455 --> 00:12:15.225 So you need to meet in a public place. 00:12:15.285 --> 00:12:16.905 You need to meet during the daytime. 00:12:17.145 --> 00:12:23.205 You need to arrive and leave separately and not give them any kind of specific idea of where you live or work. 00:12:23.685 --> 00:12:29.505 Those are just kind of basic safety things, particularly for women, but men you can consider that as well. 00:12:30.255 --> 00:12:33.584 You need to let people know that you're meeting up with someone where you'll be when 00:12:33.584 --> 00:12:37.094 you'll be meeting with them, just to make sure you've got everything in place to be safe. 00:12:37.425 --> 00:12:43.094 I'd also recommend keep your conversation within the app rather than exchanging numbers, because 00:12:43.094 --> 00:12:48.645 if something happens that is a negative experience, then you can report that within the app. 00:12:49.185 --> 00:12:54.285 But if they want to go over the messaging on your phone numbers instead they might unmatch 00:12:54.285 --> 00:12:58.155 with you on the app and then you have no way of keeping them accountable for their actions. 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:02.430 Whereas if you remain in the app, you can keep them accountable for the way they've acted. 00:13:03.150 --> 00:13:08.459 But having said all that, all those caveats and safety things meet up in person, have a conversation 00:13:08.969 --> 00:13:13.589 a whole night of texting backwards and forwards can amount to about 10 minutes of actual dialogue. 00:13:14.370 --> 00:13:20.010 So it's really helpful to have a real conversation and flesh out who this person is a bit more. 00:13:20.310 --> 00:13:21.930 And you might meet up once and go. 00:13:22.574 --> 00:13:24.375 That's not who I thought that person was. 00:13:24.584 --> 00:13:28.395 That's actually not someone I wanna spend more time with, and that's a successful result. 00:13:28.755 --> 00:13:32.834 But it helps you to see them as a three dimensional person to see their demeanor. 00:13:32.895 --> 00:13:42.975 It's much more easy to craft an image within an app, you know, old dating websites with these huge in-depth profiles that people spend hours making. 00:13:43.425 --> 00:13:51.675 Now you can spend five minutes, throw up a few flattering photos, make a couple of witty remarks, and start connecting with other people. 00:13:52.035 --> 00:13:54.645 So you don't get a filled out picture of that other person at all. 00:13:55.095 --> 00:14:02.535 And then I would say if you're pursuing and continuing in that relationship, try and hang out with them in the context of other people. 00:14:03.045 --> 00:14:07.725 Go out with a group of their friends, go the group of your friends and see how they interact with other people. 00:14:08.145 --> 00:14:13.695 One of the great things about dating someone you already know is that you've got to see them in a different context. 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:20.340 Dating someone from church is a great idea because you've seen them serving, you've seen them listening to sermons or not. 00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:24.090 You've seen them interacting with other people at church, people that might 00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:27.720 be their mates, people that might not be their mates you've seen them serving. 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:32.250 You get a much fuller picture of someone when you're seeing them on a regular basis. 00:14:32.490 --> 00:14:37.410 So dating apps add that extra obstacle of having to figure out who this person is. 00:14:38.115 --> 00:14:41.895 When you're starting from a point of isolation, it's just you and this other person. 00:14:42.165 --> 00:14:46.185 Peter Orr: It's a piece with our modern ways of relating that so much of our relationship 00:14:46.245 --> 00:14:51.104 happens online now and there are some positives, but there are a lot of negatives, uh, to that. 00:14:51.104 --> 00:14:56.655 And then when you sort of add that on, the kind of complexity of dating that can make things tricky. 00:14:57.135 --> 00:14:58.094 Jocelyn Bignill: Yeah, definitely. 00:14:58.425 --> 00:15:00.885 And there can be a lack of accountability as well. 00:15:01.334 --> 00:15:04.995 And this is one of the areas where we can fall into dangers. 00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:10.170 For one thing, you can pursue a relationship with a person that you really know is not wise. 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:13.860 Maybe they're not very strong in their faith or not a Christian at all. 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:20.310 Maybe there are other red flags that come up about their character or your compatibility, but you've connected 00:15:20.310 --> 00:15:25.380 with them and you just don't want to give that up because it feels like it's been so hard to gain that connection. 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:30.120 So you're willing to ignore those things, and if you are not dating them in any kind of 00:15:30.210 --> 00:15:34.620 wider context, if your friends aren't seeing them, if their friends are not seeing you. 00:15:35.474 --> 00:15:39.435 Then it can be easy to kind of put your blinkers on and ignore those things and keep going. 00:15:39.915 --> 00:15:48.105 We also attempted to fall into sexual sin because again, that disconnection of screen to screen can lead us down roads. 00:15:48.944 --> 00:15:54.915 Make us ignore things that maybe we'd be more sensitive to if we were physically present with each other. 00:15:55.215 --> 00:15:59.325 So you can send explicit photos to each other, send explicit messages to each other, 00:15:59.625 --> 00:16:04.665 and it feels like you really haven't done anything that bad because it wasn't in person. 00:16:05.115 --> 00:16:08.505 But that's still sexual sin that needs to be repented of. 00:16:09.165 --> 00:16:13.965 And if you have done that, if you're someone that's engaged with dating apps and you've done things you regret. 00:16:14.330 --> 00:16:15.680 Ask God for forgiveness. 00:16:16.130 --> 00:16:18.200 He freely offers his forgiveness. 00:16:18.410 --> 00:16:24.920 You do not need to stay in guilt and shame because of that sin, but also talk to somebody else about it. 00:16:24.920 --> 00:16:27.230 Talk to a trusted, mature Christian friend. 00:16:27.650 --> 00:16:30.860 Talk to your pastor or minister and loop them in. 00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:34.970 It might be a good idea for you to take a break from dating apps if that's been the case. 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.710 You might be in a relationship that's not very wise, that you wanna figure out a way out of. 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:45.300 Don't leave that sin in the dark and dating apps, they can feel very secret and very 00:16:45.300 --> 00:16:50.130 private and like things are hidden from God because they're not happening out in the open. 00:16:50.130 --> 00:16:56.700 They're not happening in real life, but they still happen and that sexual sin is still very real, even if it's digital. 00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:24.899 Tony Payne: Hello, I'm Tony Payne. 00:17:24.899 --> 00:17:30.959 It's great to be back at the Centre for Christian Living as the director of CCL, and this year we've got two events 00:17:30.959 --> 00:17:36.959 coming up in May and in October, and they're going to be a little bit different from the events of the past few years. 00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:39.719 They're going to be less of a talk followed by discussion 00:17:40.139 --> 00:17:45.449 and more of a workshop, a biblical ethics workshop, where we work together through all 00:17:45.449 --> 00:17:50.220 the material and think through what it means to think as a Christian about this topic. 00:17:50.639 --> 00:17:55.560 And on 7th May, our first ethics workshop for the year is going to be on neurodivergence. 00:17:55.830 --> 00:17:56.850 It's a hard word to say, isn't it? 00:17:56.879 --> 00:17:59.129 Neurodivergence and the Christian life. 00:17:59.879 --> 00:18:03.840 We've all got experience of this phenomenon, of these conditions in our lives, in our 00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:08.399 families, and extended families and churches—people whose brains work differently. 00:18:08.985 --> 00:18:16.485 It might be given names like Autism Spectrum Disorder or ADHD, but this phenomenon of thinking differently about 00:18:16.485 --> 00:18:21.254 the world and of having brains that function in different ways—stronger in some things, much weaker in others— 00:18:21.885 --> 00:18:28.304 this is something that more and more of us are having to deal with and understand and respond to as Christians in a way that's driven by the gospel. 00:18:28.875 --> 00:18:29.054 So if you can, 00:18:36.405 --> 00:18:41.145 come on, 7th May to our first ethics workshop for the year here at Moore College. 00:18:41.385 --> 00:18:42.375 I look forward to seeing you there. 00:18:42.764 --> 00:18:48.254 You can get all the details at ccl.moore.edu.au. 00:18:48.945 --> 00:18:51.014 Tony Payne: And now let's get back to our program. 00:18:51.254 --> 00:18:51.855 Peter Orr: In part of the article, 00:18:51.855 --> 00:18:53.715 you talk about establishing healthy habits. 00:18:53.715 --> 00:18:56.745 What are some of the habits that you think are important to establish? 00:18:56.774 --> 00:18:57.075 Jocelyn Bignill: Hmm. 00:18:57.405 --> 00:19:04.935 I think like any social media or app or smartphone technology, dating apps really play into that addictive quality. 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:07.290 Swiping, the scrolling. 00:19:07.530 --> 00:19:13.860 All of that taps into, I heard someone say it's the same part of our brain that poker machines tap into. 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:21.060 It's really addictive and it's hard to stop yourself, so you need to be putting in place 00:19:21.060 --> 00:19:25.530 some boundaries for yourself so that you are engaging with dating apps in a helpful way. 00:19:26.010 --> 00:19:27.660 I can't dictate what those might be. 00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:30.780 You can think of those for yourself, you know yourself. 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:35.580 The places that you might fall into that addiction or temptation. 00:19:35.820 --> 00:19:40.290 But some suggestions might be that you don't use dating apps late at night. 00:19:40.350 --> 00:19:44.490 Maybe you set a time limit after 9:00 PM I don't use that app anymore. 00:19:44.820 --> 00:19:47.850 Maybe you just have one point in the day where I'm going to check this app, I'm 00:19:47.850 --> 00:19:52.620 going to look at a few profiles, see if I've had anyone respond to my profile. 00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:54.900 You've got 15 minutes as a window. 00:19:55.530 --> 00:20:00.510 Maybe you only use it for a short period of time, at a time for a month, and then you switch it off. 00:20:01.169 --> 00:20:02.129 Take breaks from it. 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:08.370 I would say definitely put a boundary in place that you don't use a dating app when you are with another person, 00:20:08.790 --> 00:20:14.939 so you're not letting your online engagement with people interrupt your real life relationships with other people. 00:20:16.169 --> 00:20:21.360 You might also choose to stay on the free version of the app that you're using because then they 00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:26.820 will put limits on how many profiles you can view and how many responses you can give to people. 00:20:27.149 --> 00:20:30.300 So that could be a good external way of putting boundaries in place. 00:20:30.915 --> 00:20:39.345 And I'd say if you are feeling anxious, if you are feeling discontent, if you are really struggling because 00:20:39.795 --> 00:20:46.335 you are using a dating app, I think the thing about this kind of platform is you are opening a door. 00:20:46.665 --> 00:20:54.195 You're kind of, you're saying, I'm ready and open for a relationship in a way that you might, if you met someone that you liked. 00:20:54.615 --> 00:20:57.615 So if I meet someone, I feel attracted to them. 00:20:57.945 --> 00:20:59.625 I want to tell them that I like them. 00:20:59.625 --> 00:21:01.035 I wanna spend more time with them. 00:21:01.365 --> 00:21:04.185 You, when you do that, you're opening a door and you're making yourself 00:21:04.245 --> 00:21:08.505 vulnerable, and it might work out well, or you might end up hurt and that's fine. 00:21:08.565 --> 00:21:10.725 That's how relationships and life works. 00:21:11.235 --> 00:21:17.205 When you go on a dating app, you are opening that door in that same way, but not to a particular person. 00:21:17.205 --> 00:21:22.695 Just to a general idea that there might be someone on this platform who I can connect with. 00:21:23.909 --> 00:21:31.740 That can leave you with a lot of anxiety, a lot of discontent, maybe feeling depressed and disconnected and lonely and all these other things. 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.159 So maybe if that happens to you. 00:21:35.370 --> 00:21:36.600 This doesn't happen for everyone. 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.000 Some people are much more cool and casual than I am. 00:21:39.510 --> 00:21:42.570 But if this does happen for you, maybe you say dating apps aren't for me. 00:21:42.990 --> 00:21:47.190 This actually is just affecting my mental health, my spiritual health. 00:21:48.075 --> 00:21:49.185 Too much. 00:21:49.515 --> 00:21:51.405 I need to not use these. 00:21:51.765 --> 00:21:55.515 Great, you've given it a go and you've decided it's not for you. 00:21:55.845 --> 00:22:02.205 Or maybe you just need to put some of those boundaries in place and say, I'm going to try it for a month, and then I'm going to have a break. 00:22:02.625 --> 00:22:06.135 And just see how different you feel after turning that off. 00:22:06.645 --> 00:22:10.845 So I think, yeah, just being honest with yourself, having other people who are checking in with 00:22:10.845 --> 00:22:15.945 where you're at, and checking in with yourself as well to make sure that you're tracking all right. 00:22:16.005 --> 00:22:18.525 All those different facets and ways. 00:22:18.795 --> 00:22:22.695 Peter Orr: That's really helpful, Joss, and as you said, there's real Christian freedom. 00:22:22.935 --> 00:22:25.275 There's lots of wisdom needed. 00:22:25.905 --> 00:22:31.845 A word to marry people in our churches as we support those who are single, who are navigating these 00:22:31.845 --> 00:22:37.875 complexities, perhaps in a way that single Christians 20 years ago didn't have to navigate these complexities. 00:22:37.875 --> 00:22:41.325 How can we support our single brothers and sisters in our churches? 00:22:41.625 --> 00:22:43.905 Jocelyn Bignill: I think being willing to ask questions. 00:22:44.415 --> 00:22:48.284 I'm never offended if someone asks me, have you met someone? 00:22:48.284 --> 00:22:50.475 How are you feeling about being single at the moment? 00:22:50.774 --> 00:22:53.985 I always really appreciate when my friends ask me those questions. 00:22:54.375 --> 00:22:56.445 I don't want them to ask 'em every time we meet up. 00:22:56.774 --> 00:23:03.554 It's not the only thing going on in my life, but I like being asked questions by the people who care about me, so don't be 00:23:03.554 --> 00:23:11.054 afraid to ask questions and check in and if someone has told you I'm using this dating app, ask them how they're going with that. 00:23:11.054 --> 00:23:12.225 If they've met people. 00:23:12.795 --> 00:23:16.245 If they're being safe, how they feeling Are their habits healthy? 00:23:16.485 --> 00:23:22.065 Asking questions is really helpful, but also just include single people in your life. 00:23:22.515 --> 00:23:27.675 I think it's very easy, particularly for young married couples to fall into a trap of only 00:23:27.675 --> 00:23:31.365 wanting to hang out with other young married couples because it's comfortable and easy. 00:23:31.935 --> 00:23:37.305 But I, I'm so, so grateful for the friends that I have who have made me part of their families. 00:23:37.635 --> 00:23:40.155 They come into my home and I go into their home. 00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:45.630 I'm part of their kids' lives and get to be there for all kinds of special things. 00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:51.990 I'm godparent to a couple of beautiful kids as well, and love that relationship I get to have with them. 00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.670 So just be friends. 00:23:54.330 --> 00:23:56.011 All of us need friends, whether we're single or not. 00:23:56.955 --> 00:23:58.635 So be intentional. 00:23:58.635 --> 00:24:06.495 Look outside of your own family circle, which it's so easy to become consumed by and include other people in your family and and in your life. 00:24:06.975 --> 00:24:11.565 And I think that's particularly important for single people to have those kind of relationships. 00:24:11.985 --> 00:24:16.845 And if you're a single person and you don't have anyone that you have that relationship with. 00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:21.720 Then look for a family or a couple who you can say, Hey, can I come over for dinner? 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:23.460 Or do you want to come over to mine? 00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:26.220 And look for a family that you connect with naturally. 00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:30.630 You know, people who you like each other and seek to form that kind of relationship. 00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:32.370 Peter Orr: That's so helpful. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:41.370 Thank you for writing this and applying the gospel, applying Christian principles to something that on the surface seems quite complex and so 00:24:41.370 --> 00:24:48.570 kind of removed from the Bible, but actually as you've shown the wisdom that the scriptures give us apply here as they do in any circumstance. 00:24:48.570 --> 00:24:49.440 So thanks very much. 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:50.580 Jocelyn Bignill: You're so welcome, Pete. 00:25:06.399 --> 00:25:10.480 Tony Payne: Well, thanks for joining us on this episode of the Centre for Christian Living Podcast from 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:16.060 Moore College. For a whole lot more from the Centre for Christian Living, just head over to the CCL website: 00:25:16.060 --> 00:25:19.885 that's ccl.moore.edu.au— 00:25:20.254 --> 00:25:20.605 where you can 00:25:20.800 --> 00:25:25.720 find a stack of resources, including every past podcast episode, all the way back to 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:31.450 2017, videos from our live events and articles that we've published through the Centre. 00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:35.830 And while you're there on the website, we also have an opportunity for you to make a 00:25:35.830 --> 00:25:40.659 tax deductible donation to support the ongoing work of the centre here at Moore College. 00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:45.490 We'd also love you to subscribe to the podcast and to leave a review so that 00:25:45.490 --> 00:25:50.770 people can discover our podcast and our other resources. And we always love 00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:54.070 and benefit from receiving your feedback and questions. 00:25:54.070 --> 00:25:55.120 Please get in touch. 00:25:55.450 --> 00:25:59.440 You can email us at ccl@moore.edu.au. 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:06.760 Many thanks to Karen Beilharz from the Communications Team here at Moore College for all the work in transcribing and 00:26:06.850 --> 00:26:14.230 editing and producing this podcast; to James West for the music; and to you, dear listeners, for joining us each week. 00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:15.129 Thank you for listening. 00:26:15.639 --> 00:26:16.540 I'm Tony Payne. 00:26:16.870 --> 00:26:17.230 Bye for now.