1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,450 It seems if you talk to anyone and ask them how they're doing, one of the most common things they'll say is that they're feeling tired. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,370 I think that's true of Christian and non-Christian alike. 3 00:00:11,690 --> 00:00:13,860 What we all need is rest. 4 00:00:14,410 --> 00:00:22,150 In this episode, I'm talking to Jocelyn Bignill about some recent thinking she did in a talk on rest 5 00:00:22,634 --> 00:00:27,415 and how we can rest spiritually, physically, mentally, and emotionally. 6 00:00:27,865 --> 00:00:29,325 It's a really helpful discussion. 7 00:00:29,345 --> 00:00:30,435 I found it challenging. 8 00:00:30,445 --> 00:00:31,575 I find it helpful. 9 00:00:31,875 --> 00:00:34,155 And I hope you enjoy our conversation. 10 00:00:49,345 --> 00:00:53,225 Welcome to Moore College's Centre for Christian Living podcast. 11 00:00:53,584 --> 00:00:58,145 I'm Peter Orr, and today I'm joined by my friend, Jocelyn Bignill. 12 00:00:58,585 --> 00:01:03,785 Joss is an assistant minister at All Saints Petership, where I happen to go to church. 13 00:01:03,794 --> 00:01:08,495 Welcome to Moore and it's great to have you on the podcast, Joss. 14 00:01:08,555 --> 00:01:15,495 I wonder if you could start by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you became a Christian, how you came to be in Christian ministry. 15 00:01:15,505 --> 00:01:16,295 Thanks so much, Pete. 16 00:01:16,655 --> 00:01:17,445 My name's Jocelyn. 17 00:01:17,514 --> 00:01:22,074 I grew up in a Christian family, wonderful, faithful Christian parents. 18 00:01:22,505 --> 00:01:31,755 And I spent all of my childhood going to church with them and they really showed me a great example of what it means to be a faithful Christian. 19 00:01:31,975 --> 00:01:34,084 What it looks like to live out the Christian life. 20 00:01:34,484 --> 00:01:38,785 So it's through their influence and their example that I became a Christian. 21 00:01:38,824 --> 00:01:44,025 I'd say around year seven was the time that I said, I need to make this decision for myself. 22 00:01:44,295 --> 00:01:50,155 I'm a follower of Christ, not just because of my family, but because I believe he's called me to be one of his children. 23 00:01:50,830 --> 00:01:58,190 And from there, after high school, I trained to be a teacher, I was teaching in Tamworth and was asked by my wonderful church, St. 24 00:01:58,190 --> 00:02:01,500 Peter's in South Tamworth, would I like to come and do a traineeship? 25 00:02:01,890 --> 00:02:06,949 And did that, ended up deciding it would be a good idea to go to more college and studied here. 26 00:02:07,350 --> 00:02:12,930 And since then I've been working full time at All Saints in Petersham as the assistant minister. 27 00:02:13,319 --> 00:02:14,090 That's great to hear. 28 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,389 Just recently you gave a talk at our church on rest. 29 00:02:17,749 --> 00:02:21,049 Why did you think that was an important topic to address? 30 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:24,209 It's a topic I've been sitting on for a little while, actually. 31 00:02:24,369 --> 00:02:25,940 I wanted to think about it more. 32 00:02:26,170 --> 00:02:30,140 I wanted to do a talk on it and share that with other people. 33 00:02:30,850 --> 00:02:32,379 It's definitely a felt need. 34 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,480 You see people's need for rest. 35 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:43,180 We all feel this hunger for rest, and we're not quite sure exactly what it means to rest. 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,669 We're not very good at it often, and we're certainly not sure about what it means to rest as a Christian. 37 00:02:49,709 --> 00:02:54,100 What difference does Following Jesus make in the shape of my rest. 38 00:02:54,590 --> 00:03:01,300 So I thought this is something that is going to be helpful for me personally, but also for our congregation as well. 39 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:05,670 The privilege of being a minister is that you get to pick a topic, read a bunch of 40 00:03:05,679 --> 00:03:09,360 stuff about it, think about it and distill it down and share it with other people. 41 00:03:09,765 --> 00:03:11,375 Yeah, I think that's very helpful. 42 00:03:11,524 --> 00:03:18,784 Even this morning, I was reading about this idea of urgency culture where things like text messages and emails. 43 00:03:18,855 --> 00:03:23,975 Many of us have this kind of felt need, as you said, to respond to everything immediately. 44 00:03:23,975 --> 00:03:30,774 And it creates this kind of Feeling of urgency and inability to rest because there's always something more to do. 45 00:03:30,774 --> 00:03:34,734 So, as you said, I think it's a really helpful contemporary topic. 46 00:03:35,255 --> 00:03:40,535 As you said in the talk, you didn't just give practical tips, you grinded the issue in the Bible. 47 00:03:41,305 --> 00:03:46,115 In terms of the Old Testament, what does the Old Testament tell us about the concept of rest? 48 00:03:46,664 --> 00:03:48,055 Way more than you would think. 49 00:03:48,444 --> 00:03:54,114 The topic of rest, the subject of rest is huge in the Bible, way bigger than I realized. 50 00:03:54,450 --> 00:04:00,860 But a couple of points that I picked out and that I found really interesting that the pattern of rest is set in creation. 51 00:04:01,179 --> 00:04:05,299 We all know that on the seventh day, God rested from the work of creating. 52 00:04:05,810 --> 00:04:15,169 And later when he's putting in place the Sabbath law, he references his rest after creating as the pattern that he set. 53 00:04:15,665 --> 00:04:18,855 for us to follow in having a Sabbath rest. 54 00:04:19,095 --> 00:04:26,125 So even before the fall, we see rest is part of the way that God has created the rhythms of our world. 55 00:04:26,374 --> 00:04:30,105 You know, we have a week and one of those days is set aside for rest. 56 00:04:30,395 --> 00:04:32,005 That's not part of a sinful world. 57 00:04:32,014 --> 00:04:33,965 That's part of how he created the world. 58 00:04:34,330 --> 00:04:39,469 I think being exhausted and overtired is part of a fallen world, but rest is not. 59 00:04:39,510 --> 00:04:42,180 Rest is part of the way he created the world. 60 00:04:43,010 --> 00:04:47,750 Something I particularly loved was when God's giving the law after the Exodus. 61 00:04:48,039 --> 00:04:50,650 So he's already saved them and then he's giving them the law. 62 00:04:51,039 --> 00:04:57,100 And this is a group of people who have been in slavery for hundreds of years, for generations and generations. 63 00:05:00,009 --> 00:05:06,989 Palava started because Moses asked for a long weekend to go into the desert and worship God. 64 00:05:07,249 --> 00:05:10,409 And Pharaoh said, no way, you are so lazy. 65 00:05:11,030 --> 00:05:13,219 I'm not going to give you straw for your bricks anymore. 66 00:05:13,219 --> 00:05:14,569 You have to get that for yourself. 67 00:05:15,150 --> 00:05:20,120 So this is the person who's been running their lives, who just has to have this tight 68 00:05:20,450 --> 00:05:25,984 grip on them that they cannot have a weekend to themselves to worship their God. 69 00:05:26,435 --> 00:05:27,935 And then God rescues them. 70 00:05:27,995 --> 00:05:29,445 He takes them out into the wilderness. 71 00:05:29,455 --> 00:05:30,775 He gives them this law. 72 00:05:31,185 --> 00:05:37,914 It just would have been mind blowing to go from being a slave where your only worth is in 73 00:05:37,914 --> 00:05:46,034 what you produce to having your God say every week, I want you to take a day and do nothing. 74 00:05:46,734 --> 00:05:47,945 I want you to worship me. 75 00:05:48,375 --> 00:05:52,185 I want you to spend time together, but no one's going to be preparing food. 76 00:05:52,235 --> 00:05:53,435 No one's going to be working. 77 00:05:54,135 --> 00:06:02,455 You're going to take a day out where you produce, I just can't even imagine how mind blowing that would have been for an Israelite in that moment. 78 00:06:03,005 --> 00:06:08,175 To go from Pharaoh to God as the person who's ruling their lives. 79 00:06:08,535 --> 00:06:15,795 And you see that the Israelites, as the same as us, are pretty bad at rest and pretty bad at obeying the Sabbath rules. 80 00:06:17,335 --> 00:06:21,695 They have been set this pattern and it's a gift from God. 81 00:06:22,095 --> 00:06:28,395 And entering that rest is a This ongoing theme all throughout the Old Testament. 82 00:06:29,085 --> 00:06:35,745 We might come back to the Sabbath in a few moments, but obviously Old Testament, as you say, gives us the foundation of rest. 83 00:06:36,595 --> 00:06:38,854 How does the New Testament develop that idea? 84 00:06:39,135 --> 00:06:46,145 Well, as soon as we enter the New Testament, pretty early on in the Gospels, we see that rest has really been corrupted. 85 00:06:46,154 --> 00:06:47,534 The Sabbath has been corrupted. 86 00:06:47,764 --> 00:06:52,065 Instead of this beautiful, life giving, freedom giving day. 87 00:06:53,010 --> 00:07:00,270 It's instead become a new kind of slavery where there's all these rules that you have to obey that are so restrictive 88 00:07:00,490 --> 00:07:07,299 that rest has become this whole act of work and justification in itself and the Pharisees are loving that. 89 00:07:07,799 --> 00:07:12,889 And so Jesus comes in and he blows that out of the water and he doesn't say we don't 90 00:07:12,889 --> 00:07:17,659 rest on the Sabbath, but he points out that they've lost the heart of the Sabbath. 91 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:20,010 He calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath 92 00:07:20,539 --> 00:07:29,080 and he will very intentionally heal people in front of the Pharisees in a very pointed way, going, What are you going to do about it? 93 00:07:29,119 --> 00:07:31,160 Do you think this was bad that I did this? 94 00:07:31,270 --> 00:07:36,300 That giving life on the Sabbath, that healing on the Sabbath is that evil in your eyes? 95 00:07:36,929 --> 00:07:40,939 And he reminds us that the heart of the Sabbath is rest. 96 00:07:41,289 --> 00:07:42,440 And not slavery. 97 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:47,740 And he reminds us that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 98 00:07:48,210 --> 00:07:50,170 We're not in servitude to the Sabbath. 99 00:07:50,570 --> 00:07:53,120 God has given us this day as a gift. 100 00:07:53,980 --> 00:07:55,190 And that is a really good thing. 101 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:02,650 So as Christians, are we obligated to keep the Sabbath in the same way that Israel was in the old Testament? 102 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,090 I'm going to be very unsatisfactory and really hedge in this answer. 103 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:14,360 I think the New Testament, first of all, gives us a much bigger picture of Sabbath, of entering into God's rest. 104 00:08:14,969 --> 00:08:19,010 We are given rest because we no longer need to sacrifice. 105 00:08:19,390 --> 00:08:21,620 We no longer are bound by the law. 106 00:08:21,970 --> 00:08:28,810 We have been given freedom from our sin, and so we can rest in the knowledge that we are saved, we 107 00:08:28,810 --> 00:08:35,220 are safe, we are loved, but there's no act that we can do that will make Jesus love us more or less. 108 00:08:35,669 --> 00:08:44,720 So in that way, We've entered into God's rest, and we look forward to a time in the new heavens and the new earth when rest will mean 109 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:52,840 something much bigger and much fuller, when we'll no longer experience exhaustion that our whole lives will be characterized by rest. 110 00:08:53,079 --> 00:08:59,520 Now this doesn't mean there's no work, but it is a full, all encompassing kind of rest. 111 00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:05,694 But, having said that I don't think that's an excuse for Christians to throw out the Sabbath. 112 00:09:06,785 --> 00:09:12,294 I think that there is still a good rhythm of rest that God has set in place, it 113 00:09:12,305 --> 00:09:16,795 was in creation, this is not something that was come up with in response to sin. 114 00:09:17,455 --> 00:09:20,414 The Sabbath tells us something about how God has created us. 115 00:09:20,854 --> 00:09:28,665 So if we are not able to set aside a day to do restful things, and I think what our interpretation of restful things is. 116 00:09:29,024 --> 00:09:30,534 can be quite open and wide. 117 00:09:30,864 --> 00:09:36,115 We don't want to be like the Pharisees saying it means this, this and this only, but setting 118 00:09:36,115 --> 00:09:42,415 aside a day a week where we can do restful activities is something really wise and really good. 119 00:09:43,194 --> 00:09:49,924 And I think we can stray into sin and disobedience when we reject that we need rest. 120 00:09:50,314 --> 00:09:58,144 And when we say, no, I'm above that, or I'm too important, or the things that I do are too essential for me to take time to rest. 121 00:09:58,699 --> 00:10:02,610 Because we are making ourselves God in that situation. 122 00:10:02,970 --> 00:10:06,910 God does rest, but the Bible is very clear that he doesn't need to rest. 123 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:08,560 He's always awake. 124 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,119 He's always working, not doing the work of creating, but still working. 125 00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:16,299 And when we rest, we're acknowledging his sovereignty. 126 00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:23,329 So we're not bound by the law in the same way, but we are still bound by the good rhythms that God has created. 127 00:10:23,999 --> 00:10:33,270 And I think rejecting the Sabbath completely can mean that we stray into the realm of sin and idolatry if our hearts are in the wrong place. 128 00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:34,589 That's very helpful. 129 00:10:34,589 --> 00:10:40,769 And Paul, in a couple of places, Romans 14, Colossians 2 or 3, seems to sort of assume 130 00:10:40,769 --> 00:10:46,240 that different people will have different views on the Sabbath as a day, an individual day. 131 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,120 But as you say, that call to rest. 132 00:10:48,925 --> 00:10:55,805 I want to say something a little bit about Jesus call to come to him at rest and how that's, in a sense, is the fulfillment of that idea. 133 00:10:56,994 --> 00:11:03,724 I started my talk off with that famous verse from Matthew 11, Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened. 134 00:11:04,094 --> 00:11:05,694 And I will give you rest. 135 00:11:06,415 --> 00:11:11,045 The word rest in itself, it's almost this exhalation, this deep breath. 136 00:11:11,534 --> 00:11:20,304 And this is such a beautiful and precious thing that Jesus offers us, that we do not need to prove ourselves to him. 137 00:11:20,755 --> 00:11:22,055 He does not need us. 138 00:11:22,644 --> 00:11:24,907 He's coming to us, offering us rest. 139 00:11:24,907 --> 00:11:27,114 He's offering us this gift. 140 00:11:27,964 --> 00:11:32,645 And we find that in him in a way that we can't find rest apart from. 141 00:11:33,755 --> 00:11:36,444 Because everywhere else, we need to prove ourselves. 142 00:11:36,795 --> 00:11:40,114 Everywhere else, we need to hold up our end of the bargain. 143 00:11:40,485 --> 00:11:42,405 But with Jesus, we have no end to hold up. 144 00:11:42,685 --> 00:11:49,175 He has, on the cross, in his resurrection, completely and fully given us adoption 145 00:11:49,185 --> 00:11:55,255 into God's family, made it so our sins are completely forgiven, and given us new life. 146 00:11:55,744 --> 00:11:59,474 There's nothing that we can give back in that sense. 147 00:11:59,484 --> 00:12:00,744 Yes, we want to serve him. 148 00:12:00,944 --> 00:12:03,454 Yes, we want to give him love and worship and adoration. 149 00:12:03,454 --> 00:12:08,590 For But when we come to Jesus, we don't need to come proving ourselves. 150 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:10,140 That's the thing I keep coming back to. 151 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:13,430 We don't need to work our way into his good graces. 152 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,959 It's not like every other relationship where there's a reciprocity. 153 00:12:17,429 --> 00:12:19,929 They give this much and you're giving in this way. 154 00:12:20,589 --> 00:12:25,019 It's very one sided in a way that is so good and so wonderful. 155 00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:27,429 I love that verse that says. 156 00:12:27,999 --> 00:12:32,140 That when we pray and we don't have the words, the Holy Spirit intercedes with groaning. 157 00:12:33,259 --> 00:12:38,949 And when we come to God to communicate with him, we don't even need to have the words. 158 00:12:39,819 --> 00:12:41,859 Just coming is enough. 159 00:12:42,369 --> 00:12:44,750 And that's us entering into a relationship with him. 160 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:45,629 What a restful thing. 161 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,539 Our minister always talks about how great dogs are. 162 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:50,890 We both love our dogs. 163 00:12:51,010 --> 00:12:54,859 And he says, dogs don't have any expectations of you. 164 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,310 There's no critical feedback with your dog. 165 00:12:57,959 --> 00:13:00,800 They just are so happy you're there and they just love you. 166 00:13:01,859 --> 00:13:07,740 I don't want to compare God and dogs, but there is a sense in which we come to God and he's not demanding from us. 167 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:12,020 Jesus is saying here, you will find rest for your souls. 168 00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:13,480 when you come to me. 169 00:13:13,959 --> 00:13:20,540 It's a restful relationship and we can distort that so easily because our hearts want to be able to earn our place. 170 00:13:47,659 --> 00:13:55,290 The Priscilla and Aquila Centre is the Centre of Moore Theological College that aims to encourage the ministries of women in partnership with men. 171 00:13:56,290 --> 00:14:01,360 Every year, the Centre holds a conference to encourage women in ministry and to assist ministry 172 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:07,040 teams to think more creatively about how men and women can work better together in ministry. 173 00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:12,810 In 2025, the Centre's annual conference will be held on Monday the 3rd of February. 174 00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:20,470 Paul Grimmond, Dean of Students at Moore Theological College, will be speaking on the topic of "Is Godliness Complementarian?" 175 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:21,460 and Titus 2. 176 00:14:22,299 --> 00:14:25,279 And author Claire Smith will be speaking about her new book, 177 00:14:25,824 --> 00:14:33,954 "The Appearing of God our Savior: A theology of one and two, Timothy and Titus", which will be published by Crossway in February, 2025. 178 00:14:35,065 --> 00:14:43,185 To find out more and to register, visit the Priscilla and Aquila Centre website, paa.more.edu.au. 179 00:14:43,694 --> 00:14:44,415 That's paa. 180 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,700 moore.edu.au. 181 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:49,449 And now let's get back to our program. 182 00:14:50,170 --> 00:14:55,540 Wonderfully, you've teased out the richness of the Bible's teaching on rest and that theological foundation. 183 00:14:56,030 --> 00:15:01,729 And it's on that basis that then we can think about the practical aspects of what it means to rest. 184 00:15:02,089 --> 00:15:08,099 So in your talk, you analyze rest in four different ways, four different ways that we can rest. 185 00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:10,629 You want to say something about physical rest. 186 00:15:10,659 --> 00:15:12,740 What does it look like for us to physically rest? 187 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:21,069 Yeah, I think it's important to think about rest in different aspects and different facets because we are multifaceted, complicated beings. 188 00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:30,880 And so if we just think of rest as one thing, then we're never going to rest well, or only that one facet of our beings is going to be rested well. 189 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:35,110 So physical rest, I think, again, can look different for everyone. 190 00:15:35,409 --> 00:15:40,570 This is part of why digging into the goodness of the Bible's teaching on rest is so important. 191 00:15:40,969 --> 00:15:44,510 And what that spells out for each of us is going to look very different. 192 00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:48,920 But physical rest, I think sleep is such a huge thing. 193 00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:51,870 And it's something, again, that we can be quite poor at. 194 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:57,090 And there are seasons in our lives when rest in that way, sleep, is not possible. 195 00:15:57,310 --> 00:15:58,540 It's out of our control. 196 00:15:58,869 --> 00:16:06,849 Whether we're experiencing anxiety, whether we're experiencing insomnia, whether we're a parent that 197 00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:12,180 has a child that keeps us up in the night, if we experience chronic pain that means that we can't sleep. 198 00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:19,949 But I think a lot of us are making poor decisions around our sleep and actually not allowing this good gift of God. 199 00:16:20,765 --> 00:16:24,625 You know, if I had any device that needed eight hours of charging a day, I would 200 00:16:24,625 --> 00:16:26,875 think it was pretty rubbish and there was something wrong with the battery. 201 00:16:27,465 --> 00:16:34,455 But God's created us to spend a third of our day resting and sleeping, specifically, unconscious. 202 00:16:35,224 --> 00:16:39,204 And when we reject that, we're rejecting his sovereignty in a way. 203 00:16:40,224 --> 00:16:45,725 And we're so caught up, I think especially after you've finished work and maybe you've done your chores around the 204 00:16:45,725 --> 00:16:52,290 house and it hits nine o'clock, ten o'clock, whatever it is, And you go, finally, I can do something I enjoy doing. 205 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,780 Finally, I can do something fun. 206 00:16:54,130 --> 00:17:00,809 And so then we stay up way too late watching those episodes, scrolling on our phones, whatever that activity is. 207 00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:06,369 And that leisure becomes more important than the sleep that God has told us that we need. 208 00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:12,639 And we have so much on offer leisure wise, that it's hard to say no to it and go to sleep. 209 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:18,359 Sleep is this great acknowledgement of God's sovereignty. 210 00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:20,380 We can rest because 211 00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:21,400 he doesn't. 212 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,690 One of the books that I read that I loved was by Geoff Robson. 213 00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:27,520 It's called "Thank God for Bedtime". 214 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,020 And he says, "Staying up late may be worse than folly. 215 00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:32,059 It may be sinful. 216 00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:39,079 It may be a sinful attempt to wrest back the control that should gladly be relinquished into God's hands. 217 00:17:39,579 --> 00:17:43,389 A sinful denial of our God given human limitations." 218 00:17:44,289 --> 00:17:46,469 Sleep is a precious gift from God. 219 00:17:47,145 --> 00:17:53,965 And we so often choose not to get enough of it and show that there are other things more important to us. 220 00:17:54,155 --> 00:17:59,475 It's almost an act of faith to say, I have lots of these things I need to do, or I have 221 00:17:59,935 --> 00:18:03,815 things I want to do, but actually I know the way that God has designed me is to get sleep. 222 00:18:03,985 --> 00:18:09,565 And so I'm going to go to sleep and trust in him that the world or what I'm doing doesn't depend on me. 223 00:18:09,845 --> 00:18:11,045 Now that's very, very helpful. 224 00:18:11,625 --> 00:18:12,695 So that's physical rest. 225 00:18:12,725 --> 00:18:14,295 What about intellectual rest? 226 00:18:14,575 --> 00:18:17,504 I don't think any of us need to be told that we should be on our devices less. 227 00:18:18,205 --> 00:18:24,655 We all know it and yet we struggle so much to actually implement anything that gives us any discipline. 228 00:18:25,195 --> 00:18:30,695 Again, this is something you could talk about in a lot of ways, but I think a key one is that we are constantly inputting. 229 00:18:30,795 --> 00:18:34,924 I'm talking about myself and I'm just assuming other people do the same thing, that I'm not this weird anomaly. 230 00:18:35,484 --> 00:18:44,065 I constantly have an audiobook, a podcast, a TV show going on my iPad, any activity where I don't need to be focused in that way. 231 00:18:44,465 --> 00:18:52,195 Whether it's chores, walking, driving, doing craft, something I love to do, I will have something else going at the same time. 232 00:18:53,315 --> 00:18:55,025 And our brains can't cope with that. 233 00:18:55,245 --> 00:18:56,875 We're not designed to cope with that. 234 00:18:57,635 --> 00:19:05,435 So we have this constant overload of information and our mind never gets the chance to just tick over and sit in neutral. 235 00:19:05,995 --> 00:19:09,925 And there's something that's so valuable about just letting our minds wander. 236 00:19:10,824 --> 00:19:17,094 That's how we process our emotions, it's how we process events, it's how we plan and remember things. 237 00:19:17,715 --> 00:19:21,214 I think maybe the reason we keep forgetting that we have things on or things we're supposed 238 00:19:21,215 --> 00:19:24,704 to do is because our brains never get a chance to actually think and remember anything. 239 00:19:25,355 --> 00:19:30,255 So then, often what can happen is that you start doing all that processing when you go to bed. 240 00:19:30,915 --> 00:19:35,625 And so you can't get to sleep, because your brain's ticking over all of these things that it should have had 241 00:19:35,625 --> 00:19:40,210 the space to do during the day, but you never took your AirPods out to and so it never had a chance to do that. 242 00:19:41,050 --> 00:19:48,800 Having that brain space gives us room for creativity and for planning and for thinking ahead, for thinking about people other than ourselves. 243 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,790 I think that constant highway of information, you know, those back catalogs of podcasts, those things that we constantly have going in our ears. 244 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:03,050 So something since I've done this talk and was thinking about this, I've been really conscious of where's my moment of quiet in the day. 245 00:20:03,495 --> 00:20:08,955 Where is there something that I am doing that I normally would have my headphones in, I'd normally 246 00:20:08,955 --> 00:20:13,975 have something playing that I'm going to choose to have silence and let my brain tick over. 247 00:20:14,305 --> 00:20:18,764 And it's just creeping in as a habit, in a good way, that that's becoming more normal, 248 00:20:18,825 --> 00:20:22,585 and so I'm not always reaching for my phone to turn on a podcast or an audiobook. 249 00:20:22,925 --> 00:20:28,865 I'm not always putting my iPad on the kitchen bench while I'm cooking something because I'm just thinking about things. 250 00:20:28,925 --> 00:20:32,554 And so I'm just going through the process of getting ready in the morning, going for a 251 00:20:32,554 --> 00:20:37,924 walk with the dog, doing some of my craft that I love without having that constant input. 252 00:20:38,004 --> 00:20:40,225 And I think it's just really good for our brains. 253 00:20:40,885 --> 00:20:45,675 That is so helpful and insightful and a way of thinking about rest that we wouldn't necessarily 254 00:20:45,825 --> 00:20:50,905 connect with the idea of rest, but it makes absolute sense, giving our minds the rest that they need. 255 00:20:51,405 --> 00:20:55,514 Obviously, as you said, we have these different aspects to our personhood. 256 00:20:55,545 --> 00:20:56,965 What about emotional rest? 257 00:20:56,965 --> 00:20:57,805 What does that look like? 258 00:20:58,085 --> 00:21:01,305 I mainly thought about emotional rest in terms of relationships. 259 00:21:01,825 --> 00:21:03,695 Some of us spend a lot of time on our own. 260 00:21:04,285 --> 00:21:07,555 Some of us are never alone and we don't have the space to be alone. 261 00:21:07,944 --> 00:21:09,635 Some of us choose to never be alone. 262 00:21:09,635 --> 00:21:10,484 We're not very good at it. 263 00:21:10,985 --> 00:21:12,845 Some of us are not very good at being with people. 264 00:21:13,635 --> 00:21:18,285 I think relationships come under that category of emotional rest, and there's balance. 265 00:21:19,135 --> 00:21:26,265 How can I take some space, carve out some time to spend on my own, whether that's the walk to the train station, whether 266 00:21:26,265 --> 00:21:31,785 that's the drive home after dropping a kid off for this thing, whether that's getting up half an hour early when the 267 00:21:31,785 --> 00:21:37,685 house is quiet, whether that's spending a night at home alone, when I could invite someone over, I could make plans. 268 00:21:38,575 --> 00:21:45,615 That's a good emotional rest to learn how to spend time on your own and to be used to your own company and enjoy it. 269 00:21:46,225 --> 00:21:49,945 But then I think there's also the aspect of investing in our relationships. 270 00:21:50,524 --> 00:21:58,475 And that will mean making plans ahead of time, that will mean choosing activities with other people that are helpful for our relationship. 271 00:21:59,095 --> 00:22:04,810 Something I haven't mentioned, but I think is a really important concept when it comes to rest is that good rest takes work. 272 00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:06,870 It doesn't happen by default. 273 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,500 If you wake up on that day off and you plan nothing, often you end up with a very unsatisfactory free day. 274 00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:20,120 So having a default activity on that day, that if I haven't planned anything else, I'm going to do this restful activity is really good. 275 00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:25,659 And if you don't plan to see your friends, if you don't, you know, some of us it's a month ahead, two 276 00:22:25,659 --> 00:22:30,200 months ahead, some of us it can be tomorrow, making plans with people and putting them in the calendar. 277 00:22:30,925 --> 00:22:32,025 Then often that won't happen. 278 00:22:32,125 --> 00:22:39,435 Even the people you live with, you don't plan quality time together, then your whole relationship can end up being logistics. 279 00:22:39,835 --> 00:22:44,385 And that means your spouse, your children, your housemate, whoever it might be, your 280 00:22:44,385 --> 00:22:49,755 relationship with them becomes very functional and not an emotionally restorative place. 281 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,260 Because it's just functional. 282 00:22:51,850 --> 00:23:00,770 So I think relationships are a key place for emotional rest, both learning to be alone and spending quality time with people in our lives. 283 00:23:01,290 --> 00:23:05,640 I think that's really helpful, that idea of working to rest or being intentional. 284 00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:11,670 It is important, and I think you're right, we don't give thought to it, we're not intentional. 285 00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:17,599 Obviously, as Christians, we're spiritual beings as well, so what does spiritual rest look like? 286 00:23:18,179 --> 00:23:21,919 Well, we talked a little bit about a bigger concept of spiritual rest and the rest we 287 00:23:21,939 --> 00:23:26,409 enter into by faith and that we're looking forward to in the new heavens and the new earth. 288 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,880 But we can experience spiritual rest now as well. 289 00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:34,639 These little moments of rest, these good restorative activities, are glimpses of heaven. 290 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:36,880 Isn't that a really beautiful way to think about it? 291 00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:41,680 When I'm sitting out in my back deck and I'm reading a book, it's a little glimpse of heaven. 292 00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:48,709 And one of the ways that we have spiritual rest, have one of those glimpses of heaven now, is in church. 293 00:23:49,149 --> 00:23:52,530 So church can definitely and should be part of our Sabbath rest. 294 00:23:52,919 --> 00:23:59,789 It doesn't mean that church is always a particularly restful activity in every aspect, but I think we 295 00:23:59,789 --> 00:24:08,020 can put in the work to think about how to make and to plan to make our Sundays or our church services. 296 00:24:08,375 --> 00:24:09,705 A restful experience. 297 00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:11,315 And part of that is preparing. 298 00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:16,775 Is the rush to church just a harried chaos, getting into the car and out the door? 299 00:24:16,974 --> 00:24:20,315 Am I constantly sleeping in so that I don't get to church on time? 300 00:24:21,025 --> 00:24:24,205 Am I coming to church unprepared for the ways that I'm serving? 301 00:24:24,454 --> 00:24:28,524 Am I coming to church not really thinking about anything except myself? 302 00:24:28,525 --> 00:24:31,025 All of these things mean that church is not restful. 303 00:24:31,765 --> 00:24:33,455 I can speak about this at length, but I won't. 304 00:24:33,775 --> 00:24:35,415 A couple of things that I think make church. 305 00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:43,419 more restful is coming early so you're not harried and you're ready to look out for and serve and invest in relationship with other people. 306 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,679 Having one of those quiet moments. 307 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:47,210 before church. 308 00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:54,310 For me, I like to, again with the dog, go out early in the morning and walk along the Cooks River without my headphones. 309 00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:59,930 And I find that a really restful activity and something that sets me up well for a day at church. 310 00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:08,610 Maybe it's 10 minutes with a cup of tea, whatever it is, having that moment of quiet and peace to prepare your heart and your mind for church. 311 00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:13,159 Just being fully present, listening to the sermon, taking notes. 312 00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:16,140 Looking for, what is God teaching me today? 313 00:25:16,420 --> 00:25:21,720 What good truths and beautiful glimpses of grace are there in God's word today that we can share? 314 00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:24,550 And even participating fully in the singing. 315 00:25:24,939 --> 00:25:30,820 Singing can be such a restful, restorative activity alongside our brothers and sisters in Christ. 316 00:25:31,049 --> 00:25:34,939 So don't pull your phone out or get distracted with things that are happening around you. 317 00:25:35,319 --> 00:25:40,829 Look at the words that you're singing, write them on your heart, sing with gusto no matter how off key you are. 318 00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:41,099 Amen. 319 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,600 And fully invest in that activity of singing. 320 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,510 I think church can be a really restful place. 321 00:25:46,945 --> 00:25:50,535 spiritually, might not be physically, might be tricky relationally. 322 00:25:50,755 --> 00:25:55,065 There's things that make church really difficult or really good and often they overlap, 323 00:25:55,574 --> 00:26:01,825 but church can be a really restful place if we put in the work to find that rest. 324 00:26:02,245 --> 00:26:05,255 And you know, you might be in a season where that is really difficult. 325 00:26:05,554 --> 00:26:07,264 You might have a toddler with you in church. 326 00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:09,500 Your mental health might be really poor. 327 00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:18,319 Maybe there's a fracture in relationships at church that mean walking through the door is just a bit of a nightmare, but you can still find a moment. 328 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:26,469 Whether it's all you're up to is joining in with this song, and that's your moment of rest, spiritual rest during church. 329 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:29,830 Whether your mind has been wandering through the sermon, you're struggling to concentrate, 330 00:26:30,530 --> 00:26:35,470 But you just grasp hold of one phrase, that's your moment of rest in the service. 331 00:26:36,150 --> 00:26:40,139 It's not an excuse to be lazy, but sometimes that's all we can do. 332 00:26:40,590 --> 00:26:41,200 And that's good. 333 00:26:41,629 --> 00:26:42,020 Again. 334 00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:42,720 So helpful. 335 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:47,020 Just this idea of being intentional, working hard, thinking about rest. 336 00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:52,340 You've so helpfully shown us the importance of rest in the scriptures, but also how this is not something that we 337 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:59,880 kind of fall into automatically and we need to be thoughtful, intentional, and even ironically work at resting. 338 00:27:00,705 --> 00:27:08,815 You've given us some really great insights, any other resources that you can recommend if listeners want to think more about the idea of rest? 339 00:27:09,125 --> 00:27:12,754 I particularly loved Adam Mabry's book, "The Art of Rest". 340 00:27:13,024 --> 00:27:14,504 I found that really helpful. 341 00:27:14,504 --> 00:27:15,425 It's quite a small book. 342 00:27:15,444 --> 00:27:16,514 It's not hard to read. 343 00:27:17,270 --> 00:27:18,469 But was really good. 344 00:27:18,699 --> 00:27:22,219 And I referred to it, or got a lot of thoughts from it for my talk. 345 00:27:22,820 --> 00:27:24,739 I just thought he was really insightful. 346 00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:29,389 Another great book is "Gentle and Lonely", which a lot of you might have read already. 347 00:27:29,739 --> 00:27:31,610 It is like a hug from Jesus. 348 00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:35,649 It's a really wonderful reminder of the rest that we find in Jesus. 349 00:27:36,110 --> 00:27:41,889 And I think the last thing I would want is for anyone to listen to this and then feel really guilty or burdened. 350 00:27:42,770 --> 00:27:45,219 Rest is a gift from God, it's something good. 351 00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:52,360 And the rest we find in Jesus, we can still find when our eyes are hanging out of our head or we're just feeling pressed from every side. 352 00:27:53,109 --> 00:27:57,699 I hope we feel challenged to think about rest better and to practice rest better. 353 00:27:58,479 --> 00:28:04,889 But a book like Gentle and Lowly I think is such a great reminder that even when we fail, we have this rest in Jesus. 354 00:28:05,274 --> 00:28:08,995 And I cannot say enough about what a precious, wonderful book it is. 355 00:28:09,314 --> 00:28:10,425 It's not a hard one to read. 356 00:28:10,425 --> 00:28:11,695 The chapters are really short. 357 00:28:12,324 --> 00:28:16,985 It really digs into that verse in Matthew 11 about finding rest for your souls. 358 00:28:17,795 --> 00:28:19,645 So, I'd highly recommend that. 359 00:28:20,254 --> 00:28:20,665 Brilliant. 360 00:28:20,675 --> 00:28:21,774 Thanks, Joss, so much. 361 00:28:21,815 --> 00:28:22,575 Really helpful. 362 00:28:22,605 --> 00:28:24,004 And thanks for coming on the podcast. 363 00:28:24,264 --> 00:28:24,655 Thanks, Pete. 364 00:28:39,714 --> 00:28:44,944 To benefit from more resources from the Centre for Christian Living, please visit ccl. 365 00:28:45,364 --> 00:28:45,784 moore. 366 00:28:46,205 --> 00:28:46,824 edu. 367 00:28:47,034 --> 00:28:48,169 au 368 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:55,860 where you'll find a host of resources, including past podcast episodes, videos from our live events, and articles published through the Centre. 369 00:28:56,450 --> 00:29:02,190 We'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and for you to leave us a review so that more people can discover our resources. 370 00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:09,220 On our website, we also have an opportunity for you to make a tax deductible donation to support the ongoing work of the Centre. 371 00:29:10,050 --> 00:29:17,929 We always benefit from receiving questions and feedback from our listeners, so if you'd like to get in touch you can email us at ccl@moore.edu.au. 372 00:29:20,595 --> 00:29:24,524 As always, I'd like to thank Moore College for its support of the Centre for Christian Living 373 00:29:25,025 --> 00:29:30,774 and to thank my assistant Karen Beilharz for her work in editing and transcribing the episodes. 374 00:29:31,234 --> 00:29:37,483 The music for our podcast was generously provided by James West.