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Welcome back to A-List Podcast. I'm Adam Armbruster. Your host with me is an incredible executive.

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I promise you you know the companies he's been involved with. Let me rattle off a few.

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Train air conditioning, weight watchers, Ben Franklin Plumbing, Mr. Sparky, one-hour air,

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Praxis 10, service experts, physical rehab centers, Contractors Success Group, Future

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University, Clockwerk Home Services, and more. Jim, you've had quite a career.

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Well, I'm old. I've had a long run. With me is Jim Abrams. If you know any of these brands,

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you also know the man. He's a servant leader. He's an incredibly kind person.

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And I think his real skill set is people skills, but he's going to prove that out by talking to

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us. Jim, let me fire off with the first question. Jim, what's a word that describes how you would

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want people to see you or know you? If they never met you, what's one word that you would hope that

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they would use? Well, today I would say content. So I've found great contentment in my life and

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enjoy virtually every day. And Jim, I know you started out as a very wealthy man making $5,600

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a year as a schoolteacher in Detroit. How did you get to where you are? I mean, what was home for

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you as a child? Well, I grew up in Detroit and then later, Livonia, a suburb of Detroit. And

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my journey and travels from a teacher in Detroit, and after I graduated from college,

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were strange in many. I wasn't making enough money, as you just mentioned, as a schoolteacher

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in Detroit. So I thought I'd make more money teaching in college and was able to get a job in

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a college and start teaching there. I was teaching an evening course in accounting for continuing

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ed and an accountant recruited me to Weight Watchers. Weight Watchers, the owner decided her

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son would take my job. So that put me on the road and I found train and then really became an

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accidental entrepreneur. When train bought GE, my position was diminished because GE was so much

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larger. And that's when I decided I would go into business for myself, which started with a company

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called Home Energy Savers in St. Louis in 1981. And that wasn't a real easy start, was it? No, no,

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that was that was, I mean, every single mistake one could possibly make. Back in those days,

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the yellow pages were the critical thing for advertising. The cutoff date was in March. The

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book would be published in October. I opened my business in June, missed the cutoff date,

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would not be in the yellow pages for a year and a half. So it forced me to really use

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ground floor marketing, if you will, which became telemarketing and foot canvassing. So I

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literally walked up and down the streets of St. Louis, knocking on people's doors, asking if I

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could be their air conditioning contractor. That's got to have a very low success rate,

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going door to door, selling a concept that people was even a newer concept back in the 70s and the

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early 80s, right? For a central air? Well, it's surprising. So the history of foot canvassing

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is broad. All the electrical companies, believe it or not, when they first came in inception,

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in the early part of the 20th century, would use foot canvassers to go out and they would sell

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irons, washing machines, dryers, these types of things so that electricity could be used.

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For heating and air conditioning, I'm not sure anybody else had done it yet.

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Perhaps others had out of desperation, but it was certainly out of desperation that I did it.

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It's something about starting out with nothing that puts gas in your tank. One thing that, Jim,

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I always in hearing you speak in and anybody that's listening to this, I mean, you can see a lot of

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Jim's speeches and talks online, just Google them, they'll all start popping up, is grit, Jim.

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You have a grit that you have an energy level and a determination that most people would

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pale next to. Where's that come from? I think a sense of responsibility that my father really

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drove into me hard. So in the beginning, when you mentioned I started my own business in 81,

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I also was married with three children. So a huge responsibility to be able to provide for that

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family. A lot of people have a challenge just providing for oneself. When you obviously get

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married and take on responsibility of children, you have that responsibility. When you take on

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the ownership of a business, now you have even a broadened responsibility to the people working

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for you. And I always look at those, not as people, but as a family. So if I employ somebody,

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I assume that their job has a tremendous effect on how their relationship with their wife, their

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children, or their husband and children, or whomever will have. And it's very, very, very,

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very important part of life. So when you become a business owner, I think you have to have that

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strong sense of responsibility almost as if you feel to your own children to the people that have

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decided to trust you and work for you. And now you're your family, you're married to Kathleen,

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two beautiful daughters and three sons and nine grandchildren. Yes. And seven of them will be here

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for Christmas. Unfortunately, one of the daughters is married and has two children out in California.

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But we go to California once every month to see them so that we can keep in contact. So they won't

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be joining us for Christmas this year, but everybody else will be here. So it's exciting day next week.

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So they feel that bond, they feel that want to be involved and your employees from what you just

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said had to have valued that from you as well. Did they feel like they were part of something bigger?

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I hope so. I grew up in a family, my dad worked at Ford Motor Company on the line.

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And we as a family, we're always very, very, very, very, very grateful for Ford. We got

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employee benefits on those days, health insurance, dental insurance. Even when my dad would get laid

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off every third year for a model changeover. I remember my mom always saying, thank God,

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you work for Ford, at least we still have our health insurance until they call you back.

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In those days, every three years, they closed the factories and retooled and came out with the new

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cars. And they usually closed down for three months. And there was no unemployment wages back in

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those days. So, you know, thousands of workers in Detroit would just have to find other part-time

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jobs or just be at home for that period. It's interesting, Jim, you started out as a teacher.

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So you started out clearly with some kind of desire to serve or help or educate.

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Do you remember what first moved you in that direction way back? Let's go with the way back

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machine, 10 years old, 13 years old. Those dreams start then. Do you remember that happening?

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I'm not sure about that. I wish I could say that. In my case, it was more, again, I grew up in Detroit.

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My family's business, my grandfather was in the moving business. So all of my uncles and cousins

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moved furniture and stuff. My dad had done that as a boy. I would say I didn't have a very broad

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vision of what was available in terms of careers. So when I went to college, I went to college

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specifically to become a teacher. Initially, I got a history major and an English minor. And then

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I worked for a gentleman by the name of Leonard Blumenreich one summer in his CPA firm. And he

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said, what the heck are you going to do, Jim, if you're not a teacher with your history in English?

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So I immediately went back. When I went back to school that year, it was my junior year,

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and I changed and I was still going to be a teacher, but now I was going to teach business

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subjects. So for my last two years, I literally inundated myself with business subjects and

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picked up a major in business as well. And then went to teach because I didn't really know what

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else there was. There was the factory, which I worked in. And I just wasn't broadly exposed to

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different careers and opportunities. So that was the event that you said this is my ticket,

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my ticket to something better. Yeah, I clearly remember thinking, wow, having my summer's free,

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I'll travel, I'll do all of this. And strangely in those days, when I graduated from college,

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I was pretty confident that $100 a week would do it. That would be a good wage and I would be

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successful. If I could ever get to $200 a week, that would be a miracle. So I took the job because

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I intended to. And then because it's summers, we're free. And boy, I paid $100 a week. So who

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could ask for more? Someone once said, like, a real gift is not being able to see past the distance

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of your car's headlights. Because if you saw how long the road really was, that's probably true.

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So you could see past your headlights to $200 a week. And then how about what brought you into

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the home services industry? You could have picked 100 different businesses when you went to St. Louis,

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right? You could have done anything. Why that one? Well, I can't, when I went to St. Louis,

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I'd been working for train prior to that. So I was in the heating and air conditioning business

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then. But what led me to train was I'd been working at Weight Watchers and Florian Mark

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had made the decision, my boss, that her son would effectively become the general manager of the

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company. And I would be second to him and I would help teach him my job. I didn't see much of a

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future in that. My second child had just been born. In those days, there was no internet.

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So I went to the library every night as I generally did anyway. But now I went with a very specific

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purpose. And that purpose was to find where the future lied. So where, if I'm going to expend myself

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to make and provide for my family, where can I have a future? Because this management of

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businesses for others didn't seem to be working out too well for me initially. I didn't want to

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go back to teaching. So I narrowed it down to three things. Cheap food, so fast food, if you will.

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There weren't many in those days. So this was back in the 70s. So I saw that as really a rising place

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that if I could get involved with that, I would probably do okay. Automobile aftermarket, because

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in the 70s, people were holding onto their cars for a very long time. And yet there was no

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pet boys or Western hot or none of that existed at that time. But I kind of perceived that the future

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would be that that would be their own energy related business. Tried to get in with Mike Gillich

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from Little Caesars for the cheap food, didn't make that one, walked all around Detroit applying

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at different engineering firms for the automobile aftermarket. But in those days, you needed an

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engineering degree and I did not have that. So by default, I ended up in energy related and went

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to work for training. What was the first step you took when you went to St. Louis and you missed

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the cutoff on the yellow page book, which back then was pretty much a death sentence probably as

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far as generation. There was no Google. There was no Angie's list, nothing, right? Now, you walk,

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take me back to when you first walked up that first house. Did you have a little sales pitch

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figured out when you rang the doorbell? Like what was in your head when you walked up and pressed

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the button? But I needed to get an appointment either for my one technician to tune up their

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equipment or I needed to get a lead so I could come back and sell it desperately. And unfortunately,

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that didn't work out as well as I'd hoped it would. I had to go back and get better. So I did

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devise a little stick on thing that you could stick on your furnace and my pitch at the door would be

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my name is Jim Abrams. I came here, I opened up a heating and air conditioning company. I made

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the biggest mistake of my life and I didn't get in the yellow pages. So I'm out here, Mr. Armbruster,

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knocking on doors, asking people if they possibly allow my company to serve them for their heating

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and air conditioning needs. Generally, the person would say no and I'd say, well, I have this little

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blue sticker I can put on the side of your furnace and it tells you what to do to prevent a service

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call. So you can do these five things before you ever call for service and hence you won't have to

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spend any money or have your life disrupted if you do these five things. Plus, if this is on the

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side of your furnace and you decide to call my company, you can see you get an automatic 10%

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discount. May I come into your home and put this on your furnace? Some people let me, others didn't,

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one out of 40 would send an appointment with me. So it was just, I learned early about numbers

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and not to get discouraged when the first one or the second one or the third or the fourth or the

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fifth told me, no, thank you. Only one person in all my career, only one ever slammed the door in

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my face. That's it. I only had one bad experience at the door and I literally have knocked on thousands

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of doors. So 39 doors in, 39 no's in a row. I wonder if people listening to this in sales

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would have the grit to go to that 40th doorbell after 39, no thanks go away.

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In Detroit, which is kind of a blunt city, is that the right word to use? It's kind of blunt.

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It was a hard city and I didn't know it. So I'd opened up my business in probably the worst place

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I could. The FBI arrested the number two most wanted person living directly across the street

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from my business. Two people were literally murdered on the street that I worked, while I worked in

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that place. And I could not let my wife and children even come to visit me at my place in

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business. It was just too dangerous. We had one of our employees robbed a gunpoint. We had batteries

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stolen out of our trucks at night. It was, it was a challenge. This is a bottom up success story,

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very American. Jim, who, who or what helped you along the way? Can you name a mentor that really

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put a road sign in your journey for you? Can you name one or something that happened?

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Yeah, I think I was very fortunate in that area. My father, who I would say grew up in a very hard

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area and really had a difficult life as father put him to work on the trucks, on the moving

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trucks when he was 11 years old. So he blew out his legs, moving pianos as a teenager,

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served and fought in World War II and different two different theaters. And yet always had this

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tremendous optimism about life that, you know, the future was going to be unbelievably great.

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He never told me negative war stories and he could have because of the places where he was at

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and what he had to do. So I was very, very, very fortunate in that, you know, I had Frank Abrams

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as my father. Following that, I got lucky. Again, I remember I was working and accounting that one

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summer. I was working for a gentleman by the name of Leonard Blumenreich. And Leonard pointed out to

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me, you know, history and English may not be the answer for you, Jim. So key point there.

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And then I worked for Leonard directly after college. And then lastly, I got by the name of

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Angel Aguero. I became an assistant director of a small college in Saginaw, Michigan, and

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Angel O was the director. And he was just a phenomenal guy. And he saw on me things I didn't

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see in myself. He shared with me an analogy that many of your listeners may like. He said, you

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know, Jim, I teach Little League or I coach Little League. And he said, I see two types of players.

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I see one kid come out who's very talented, but he's got to have his gloves just right, his hat's

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got to be on right, his bat's got to be perfect, his uniform's got to be like this. And if everything's

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right, he'll go to the plate and he'll probably hit the ball. He said, I like kids like you who

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don't even know what a bat is and are willing to step up there with a broom just because you want to

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play. He said, you'll learn the things you need to learn to get really good. He said, but you cannot

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replace that enthusiasm and excitement about wanting to succeed at whatever it is that you do.

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There's that grit again, right? How about this? Not everybody along your journey

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is a fan. Sometimes you get critics, but I've had some executives on this podcast say things like

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people see, people see things in me that I can't see. Like you just said that. And I've heard this

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before from high powered successful people. Did you welcome the criticism? Did anything

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sting and turn out to be right? Did anything sting and motivate you to give you fuel? Did

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anybody critique you along the way? Well, I definitely had an experience because I was a

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low man on the totem pole going all the way back to when I was 15. I worked on the back end of a

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golf course and we had a tournament coming up. And on our golf course, we had Porter Johns

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located throughout the course. I don't know if they still work this way today, but it was a

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little plastic thing. Then there was another plastic thing that went down in a hole that we had to

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dig and it would connect by little metal things to the house on top, if you will. So what you

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had to do is disconnect, move the house, the truck would come in, lift it out, dump it, and then put

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it back in the ground. Unfortunately, one of these got stuck in the ground and it was coming up for

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the tournament. And my boss Fritz said in his German accent, Jimmy, you little man, you're going to

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go down there. I can't do it, Fritz. I'll puke. Maybe, but it doesn't matter. There's so much,

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I won't use the word he used, crap down there that it won't matter anyway. I think it was crying

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and embarrassed in front of the other guys because I had two choices now. I had to go home and tell

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my dad who works double shifts in a factory that I was unwilling to do this after what he did in

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World War II and what he does every day to work, but I wouldn't do it. And I got fired or I would

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go home and tell my dad why I smelled so badly. Those were my two choices. So I went down and

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I did vomit down in there, but I did it. And on that day, I really, after I got out, I rode my bike

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home. They didn't want me at work anymore because I smelled so badly. They squirted me down with a

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hose, but it wasn't enough. So I rode my bike home crying, trying to figure out now what I would

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tell my mom and dad about my ruined clothes because again, in those days, one didn't have a whole

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bunch of clothes, right? So that was a changing life experience. I learned I could do anything if I

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was willing to do that, but I could do anything and probably survive it. That is hard to top, Jim.

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It's been hard to top. I'm saying it happened at 15, so I've had no further experience anywhere

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near that since I was 15 years old. I could tell it was stinging because the memory seems crystal

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clear as you describe it. It does. It is. It's one of those moments one never forgets.

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So these are things that define us, right? As people, as humans, and you've been extremely

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successful obviously in business, financially, big family, a lot to be proud of, Jim. But one

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thing I've noticed is people that have listened to you, attended your trainings, become franchise

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owners of which you've got a long list of franchise businesses you've started. I notice

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they're really successful too. Why do you think that is? You don't always hear that. You hear

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of successful franchises, but then you hear of a lot of franchises or maybe not so successful.

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A lot of yours seem really well off, like they did well. Why do you think that?

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Why do you think yours were different? I think it was different because it was important to me.

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So one of the things I take greatest pride in is that in all of my businesses,

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all, without exception, every one of my executives that worked with me are all multimillionaires.

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There is no exception. So it didn't matter where they started. Some started as a receptionist

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and worked up in the organization. It was that ability to be able to perform and achieve

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and succeed at what they did that my vision on the world was, I'm not a guy that's after a billion

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bucks. So that was never important to me. The numbers are important because I have to have a

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budget that was important to me. I have to be profitable because I have responsibility. At one

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time, I employed 3,500 people. Those 3,500 people morph into families that might have been as many

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as 10,000 people and all those Christmases and all those birthdays and all those things that

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these people are working hard to provide for their families are extremely important. So

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I think with my franchisees, the franchisees came and said, hey, teach me to run a business

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successfully or more successfully than yours, Jim. And that became my responsibility. That's what

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they paid me for. My favorite story about customer satisfaction was on a July 4th. Kathleen and I

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were walking down a beach with Paul and Celia Marchese, who you know. We had a beach house out

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on C.S. DeKee and I'm walking down the beach with Paul and Celia and Kathleen. We're about halfway

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down C.S. DeKee and I see behind me a guy running and a woman behind him running to catch up to us

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and I know who it is. So I stopped and the guy is really sweaty and he said, Jim, can I have a hug?

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I'm in my bathing suit. He's in his. It's not really something I wanted, but okay, come on,

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bring it in. We introduced each other. After they left, Paul said to me, who was that guy? He was

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my franchisee from Tampa and the prior year, he had paid me a million dollars in franchise fees

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and he was running down the beach to introduce his wife to me. That was what was important to him

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that day. And I think, I don't know how you can get better than that with a customer. Here's a guy

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paying me a million bucks a year and his final words, I love you, man. And I still get text from

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this guy and many of my franchisees or my affinity group, people still call me or text me or email

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me and it's still sometimes asked for guidance and advice and business. I think that the people

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that work for you, if you're in the service business, particularly, they are your business.

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So you have to have honest, hardworking, caring people and it's difficult to be able to find those

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people. So once you find them, you'd better be kind to them, generous, offer them opportunity,

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clearly show them a path where they can succeed and not put on them your feelings. So many times,

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I was early, I was disappointed because a person would have such great talent I could see,

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but they just wouldn't use it. And then it dawned on me, success is measured in so many different

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ways that it's not all about money. I see my father is perhaps the most successful man I've ever

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known. And he provided for his family throughout his life, but when he passed away, he and his wife

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were living in a 900 square foot condo, beautiful condo, right on a golf course in San Diego.

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But very content man, very happy in life, not a lot to leave other than to his wife,

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you know, what little he had, he was able to leave to her. And yet very, very, very, very,

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very fulfilled with his life, very proud of what he'd done and very happy with it. At that point,

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I backed off pushing those very talented people. I'd make the opportunity available, but I would

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not impose my thoughts as to what they should achieve in life onto them. Let them do that.

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To me, when you said the franchise or gave you a million bucks and then ran down the beach to

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hug you, there's two lessons in there. One is his gratitude for what you did for him and his

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family, right? But the level lesson I heard in there was, you're charging what you're worth,

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Jim. I mean, you know, he could have paid somebody else a million bucks, but he paid you. So

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you're not afraid to charge what you're worth. And I think there's a business lesson in that.

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I found that unless people pay, especially for knowledge, they don't value it. You know, if it's

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just free seminars or whatever, people come and there may be that one in the group that will

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come and really be there to listen and learn. But unless people invest in that, they're not

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there to listen and learn. But unless people invest something in it, at the very beginning,

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they don't really value it, perhaps as much as they should. Hard lesson because, you know,

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you have, when you get this knowledge and you learn the keys to success because there are

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keys to success, you know, in one of the books I wrote, I have a 10 step approach. And it's always

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worked, always worked. I think it always will work if you apply those 10 steps to any business.

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Are any of the books available to the public? I know if you're, I know praxis.com, there's a

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lot of videos of you talking. Is there anything that people could look into if they wanted to

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read more of what you're talking about? I had one book published called Contractors Guide to

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Success. There were 10,000 copies of those they've all been sold. I've been asked to reprint that

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it's so dated that I haven't, I occasionally see them come up on Iggy Bay or Amazon. I saw

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one self for $5,000 on Amazon. So that was pretty impressive for a book that used to sell for $24.95.

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But the other book is just, I've written it, edited a number of times, I'm not ready to,

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you know, make it a final published book yet. Terrorist Group Praxis has access to it because

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I licensed him to be able to use my book for that purpose. I've sent it to friends electronically,

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etc. But other than that, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it before I'm gone.

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You've done a lot of teaching, a lot of sharing. Let's talk about some things. I mean, you've had

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a lot of hits, but something tells me you might have had a few misses. Did you ever develop an

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idea or concept or a business or business idea that didn't work out? And what did you do learning

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from that experience? Yeah, I've had a few of those. One was relatively large back,

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when was that, in the 80s. So I had an opportunity to become the distribution for Coleman,

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who manufactured heating and air conditioning. In those days, I'm not sure they still do,

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but they did then. So I had the opportunity to acquire the distribution for five states surrounding

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Missouri. And I had a young man working with me, who is very ambitious, hardworking guy,

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but had some challenges. He had $80,000, which in those days was a lot of money,

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that he wanted to invest and become my partner in that business. So I didn't think he was the

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right guy, but I had nothing to lose. He would do the job, he would put the $80,000 in, and then I

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would benefit from it. That's how I saw it at the time. It didn't work out. The guy lost all of his

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money. He quit. He had to resign from the business. He had a wife and two children, and he had to

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go elsewhere. So I closed down the center. I felt terrible about the whole experience. First, it was

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my first real loss in business. And second, this man was now in a very difficult position.

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I did something then that I'm very proud of now. I thought it was just the right thing to do at that

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time, but I gave him back his $80,000, and I took the loss. And if anybody questions whether

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there's, you know, you get rewarded for good things, the story will come around and show that

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you do because a few years later, I was looking at buying a house in what's called Wilson Farm

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Estates back in St. Louis. I picked out a lot, but it had a premium of $220,000 on it, and I just

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couldn't pay that premium for that lot. So we decided on a lesser lot. On the day I'm in signing

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the contract, I see that it says lot 144, which was the lot that had the $220,000 premium, but it

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did not have the $220,000 against it. And I thought, hmm, I made a mistake. Do I just sign this real

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quick? And I said, no. So I said, George, I'm sorry, the gentleman I was signing the contract with,

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you guys have made a mistake. This was a lot I wanted, but I can't afford it. So we were going

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to go here. He said, I know, just sign the paper, you got 144. Well, why? And he turned around a

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picture that was on his desk. And there was this man who had worked for me, who I gave back $80,000

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to, with a woman and two small children. That woman was this guy's daughter. And he said,

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I've never forgotten what you did. A lot of cheers. So I got back $220,000 for an $80,000

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investment. And I got the lot that we dreamed of that we wanted. And it was all because of that.

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So leaving good actions, good tasks, good, you know, things along the way as you're

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going down this road. What's a, you know, you describe yourself as content. And I guess I would

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be content after all those wins. I guess I can envision that maybe happening, not personally.

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I mean, I haven't experienced that, but for you, absolutely. I mean, what's a word that describes

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your career though, looking backwards, the ups and downs, the lefts and rights, the wins, the

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losses, what's a word that describes the career for Jim Abrams? You know, you had that on your

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question. I'm not quite sure which is the best word. There were a lot of them, I would say

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accidental. I mean, I got recruited out of a classroom to go to Weight Watchers. Weight

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Watchers decided to go in a different direction. Personnel wise, I landed at train simply because

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I was in a library and found energy related businesses. And I ended up going into business

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for myself because train was effectively going to move me to Tyler, Texas. And I was going to have

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to go back on the road again every single day. And I just didn't want to do that. So I left and

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opened up my own business. I always saw myself at that point in time anyway, as a still as a teacher,

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but as a manager, I did envision myself as being a very good manager at many different things. So

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I learned what was necessary and then I was able to manage those things. So I'd say accidental. I

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ended up in one place after another, got into physical therapy because I was in a car with

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Tief Jogelberg. And I was going to fund a small medical park in Venice that he was going to occupy

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with some other doctors. So that's how I got into physical therapy, just talking to him in a car one

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day and then ended up growing the largest physical therapy franchise in the world.

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Get some of the young people that can really learn from you and your experiences. And I hope

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people do dig online and listen to some of these videos. The internet's full of Jim Abrams. I mean,

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it is not hard to find you and listen to some of these stories. Well beyond what we're talking

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about, if a young professional walks up to you now, Jim, saying, let's just pick home services.

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I want to get into home services. What's your counsel to them? What do you say to these young

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pros? Let's assume they're talented and you like what you see. What do you say to them?

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I'd first ask them why. Everybody that I've ever worked with, it's really two things. Why do you

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want to do this? And secondly, what is it that you want out of it? And the same thing with the people

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working for me. Why do you want to work here? And what do you hope to get out of this experience

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working here? So I know what it is that you're looking for because I might perceive you looking

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for something totally different. I had a very successful guy in one of our affinity groups

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out in the Northwest. He had a relatively small business doing $900,000 a year. He only employed

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five people, but he took three months off every year to go hunting. I took another month off every

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year to go skiing and he had the perfect little business for himself. So me teaching him how to

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build a multi-million-dollar business, it wouldn't have been successful for him. So why is it that

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you want to go into home services and what do you want out of it? I see a lot of people wanting

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to go into it today because it's a very, very, very popular field for home equity right now

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and there's tremendous amounts of money flying out there. So a lot of people are going into it

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for the money. They may find when they go into it for that alone that it's a tough, tough job

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and then it's going to be difficult for them to continue if it's just about money.

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So you're seeing that with some of these roll-ups, aren't you? Like where it's easy to buy

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five, 10, 15, 20 HVAC companies. It's a little different story trying to run them

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and run them profitably and consistently. Yeah, nobody's taking the time to preintegrate.

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So you know, you or even have really an integration plan after they buy them. So they

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allowed them to continue to fly under their same banner. So you don't have any national

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companies today. There's nobody there really that's nationally known and I think that opportunity

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is missed. So what you end up with is a local brand that maybe is well trusted and liked,

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suddenly owned by somebody from another city without the best practices. Is that where you're

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going by preintegration? Yeah, that and they may not be on the same software. They don't have the

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same company name. They don't wear the same uniforms. They may not even sell the same equipment. So

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it's very complicated to become an expert at all of these different small little businesses.

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And usually what's happened is the private equity group where they acquire has come in

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and they're not really looking at a long-term relationship with the customer or with the business.

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So many times it leads them to do things that they shouldn't do and they can do because the

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customer is not savvy on the equipment that's out there today. So they end up doing things

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that they shouldn't do. They replay systems before they should because the private equity guys

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are in there for the money. You know, the private equity guys are coming only for money, period.

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They don't come to enhance what the customer gets. It's rarely enhancement other than for

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very senior executives for the personnel of the company. It's just about money. So that would be

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dangerous, I think, to get into the home services business because the tide can change very quickly.

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When I took my company's public back in 1996, between 1996 and 1998, $6 billion

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flowed into the home services industry in terms of capital. And then after that date,

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it took another 20 years before that type of money would flow again into home services.

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So these windows open and these windows close and right now the window's been pretty wide open for

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air conditioning and plumbing and electrical contractors. You know, I have a formula for

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success. So I would tell that person, you know, if you want success, success is equal to first

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and foremost knowledge. You have to really know what it is that you do and how to do it. And there's

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only two ways to get knowledge. That's through education. So reading books, attending seminars,

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going to college or experience. Those are the only two ways that you gain knowledge. Next,

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you have to have a plan. So what is it that this business looks like? Not next month, but 10 years

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from now. So 10 years from now, what's this business going to be? And what do I have to do from here

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to get to here? That's, that's, most people don't do that. Most people spend more time planning

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their vacation this year than they will their life. They really don't even have a plan for their own

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life, let alone their own business. Then they have to be able to execute that plan. So maybe

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execute that plan. So manage it. And then they have to have, I've added that to the formula later

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in my life, they have to have the willpower because there's going to come a day. You don't know when

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it's going to come, but there's going to come a day where you're going to be extremely challenged to

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meet the responsibilities that you ever work. And you just don't know where those are going to come

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and when they're going to come. So you have to have the willpower to be able to get through

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those very, very, very difficult things that will come. There's that grit again, all the way back from

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this gritty streets of Detroit, Michigan, showing up again. You never really lose who you are,

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dear Jim. You know what I think, Jim? I think your father was right. I think when he said the

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future's bright, he was correct, but I don't think he was talking about him. I think he was talking

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about you. Perhaps. My dad was a strict disciplinary and when I was a boy later, we became very good

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friends in life and I spent a great deal of time with him. So that was good. But yeah, he did tell me

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he actually thought it would be much harder in the future, but he thought the opportunities

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would be there. The reason he thought it would be much harder is being a veteran from World War

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II. He'd seen the whole world bombed out. And he thought at that point in time, the 50s, he thought

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we really a great time because America had the only factories in the world. So we could produce

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some factory workers who would make a ton of money or a lot more money, respectively than what

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they make today. And America would have its way with the world. And we did. But bit by bit,

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the world woke up and became more competitive with us. And he foresaw that. He said it's going

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to be more challenging. It is going to be a global world. He was a thoughtful guy, just like you.

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Jim, it's been such a thrill to have you on this podcast. We could go all day. And I hope people

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that listen to this that are intrigued and go down the rabbit hole and read up on Jim Abrams.

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There's so many lessons in here, decades and decades, and you won't go wrong. He says such a

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success track record, it's hard to top it. And everybody I know that Jim that's worked with you

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or for you says all the same things you just said. It's all real. It's all true. Jim, thanks so much

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for being on the podcast. All right, Adam. Thanks for having me. Have a good day. And have a Merry

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Christmas, by the way. Merry Christmas to you, Jim. Bye.