Hi there, and welcome to Season 2 of Notes From
the Stage, a show from the musicians of the Calgary
Philharmonic. We're the people playing our hearts
out every week of the orchestra season. I'm Adam
Zinatelli. Usually I play first trumpet in the
Calgary Philharmonic, but today I'm your host
and I'm here with Max Stein, third horn of the
CPO. Hi, Max. Hi. How are you doing? I'm good.
Thank you for having me. It's great to see you.
We're just getting back from our summer vacation
and I haven't seen you in a while. How's your
break? The break's been great. It's always good
to take some time off from the instrument and
to spend some time outside and with my lovely
dog and spend time with family. and sort of reconnect
with some of my other passions and hobbies. And
I always feel great coming back to the season,
feel revitalized and ready to go. Excellent.
As you came in today, we were talking a little
bit about taking some time off the instrument
completely over the summer, which is something
that I do. And I know that it's something you
do too. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yes, it's something that has evolved over time.
This concept of taking time off and what that
looks like and what's the purpose of it is for
me playing a full time job now requires me to
think about longevity and to think about my career
and that i want to be playing for many many decades
and i want to feel healthy and strong for all
of those decades so it's not that i cannot play
every day 365 days a year and continue to continue
to do that for years on end but i don't think
that that's what's best for longevity so it's
making decisions that are good for my long -term
health in playing and it's also just good for
me mentally and emotionally separate myself from
the instrument for a period of time and have
a bit of break come back with a clean slate so
there's a lot of different reasons but yeah we
just need a break from from playing sometimes
it's a our season's really busy and it feels
like every year sometimes it's busier and busier
i'm not sure how that is um but Yes. The break
has become a necessity and like a very integral
part of me being successful at the horn and being
successful on the job. Totally. Yeah. I think
that our off season is a lot like an athlete's
off season. You know, you can't be, you know,
in certainly athletes know you can't be at peak
fitness all the time. And in that off season,
you take a rest so your body can heal up and
then you start building a solid foundation to
build the next season on. Right. And, you know,
the, the fitness and the skills of the previous
year remain to some degree and are a higher foundation
for you to build on every year, which is great.
But if you try and be in peak shape all the time,
you're never going to reach the heights that
you could otherwise. Mm hmm. I think rest is
a incredibly important part of improvement. I
think that, like you mentioned, athletics or
being an athlete with regards to fitness, it's
studied. and known that rest is a key part of
improvement, that if you lift weights or you
run every single day and you don't give yourself
rest, your body's not able to improve. And so
I do think finding rest within the season here
and there, a day here and there, that's really
important. And then I think longer rest with
intention, I think, has been really positive.
So totally. And not only are we athletes, but
we're artists too, right? So having some sort
of mental freshness, having a fresh look at things.
being ready to be present and in the moment and
focused and attentive and all that stuff is also
something that we get back when we take that
time off. Yeah, definitely. So we're back at
work. Presumably you're back in shape. Mm hmm.
Uh huh. Uh huh. Yes. Um, you know, it's always
good to start the season, I would say in shape,
but not overdo it. Yeah, I've made that mistake
before. Yeah. I have as well, you know, really
feeling excited and sort of ramping up to the
point where maybe it's a little bit overdone
and then starting the first week and going, Oh,
gosh, that wasn't a good decision. And it's sort
of hard to reel that back once the season begins,
because it's just coming at you. Yeah. And you
can't stop it. Yeah. And so I've tried to be
intentional that I need to get myself to a certain
level of endurance and just technical facility
and start the season feeling fresh. with a little
bit of room to sort of build that stamina and
just playing in the orchestra will do that. We're
always experimenting, I think, as musicians in
the orchestra. We're always trying to think how
to put ourselves in the right place to be successful,
whether it's on a certain piece or in a given
week. And, you know, the more we do that, the
more data we have. and the more successful we
are with those sort of predictions. But so that's
what I'm doing. I'm making a prediction, as I
always do, from experience, and I'm hoping that
it works out. And if it works out or it doesn't,
it doesn't really matter. I'll have to figure
it out and I'll learn and I'll get and I'll move
on. Totally. And when you get old like me, Max,
you'll realize that that it's a moving target.
It's the things that work one year aren't always
going to keep working the same way year after
year. So it's a voyage of discovery. Oh, gosh.
Well, coming back to work is fun because we get
to see all our colleagues again. You know, we
see so much of each other during the season and
everyone kind of goes their own separate ways
sometimes during the summer. It's really great
to to reconnect. Yeah, yeah, I love I love my
colleagues and I think I always know that. But
when I take a big break is when I especially
know that I love my colleagues because I miss
people and I miss seeing them, hearing them,
interacting with them at work. And so. Yeah,
that's one of the nicest parts about our job
is seeing our colleagues and seeing wonderful
people and making music with them. And the outbreak
really forces you to remember that. And that's
also incredibly positive to come back to work
with that mindset of excited to see the people
in the ensemble as well. So it's a human focus,
not just a music focus. Yeah, totally. And as
with every season, we're welcoming some new musicians
in the orchestra, and I'm really looking forward
to meeting them and getting to know they're playing
too. But Max, I have such strong memories of
you joining the orchestra in 2019. Oh, okay.
I would love to hear those. Well, I just I just
have this memory of from from day one. You're
so focused. I don't know anyone who is more like
excited about and interested in what we're doing
than you are. There's a certain intensity to
Maxwell Stein, if you haven't met him. Boy, he's
super intense. But in a way that is like so collaborative.
And it always just feels like Max is there to
do the work and to solve this puzzle of playing
in an orchestra together. Well, well, thank you
for that. Starting here, it was my first job
and I was very young and it was it was challenging
in a lot of ways that I think I did expect. And
it was difficult in ways that I didn't expect.
so i think that's something interesting about
playing an orchestra job for the first time that's
more full time is when you come from university
and you've been playing professionally sort of
off and on having gigs and you and all you've
been studying is orchestral music you feel like
you're totally prepared you know you feel like
this is what i this is what i do this is what
i've studied i won the job so i obviously know
what i'm doing they have they they believe in
me i'm gonna go in and i'm gonna do that and
to be honest that wasn't really my experience
my experience was that You know. There was a
lot of things I wasn't expecting and there were
a lot of challenges of playing a full time job
that I think I couldn't have predicted and I
wouldn't have known what those things felt like
until I was in it and so I think I would like
to think that everyone has that similar experience
to a certain extent yeah you know I take the
job really seriously and it's not just that.
It's not actually that I feel that playing the
horn or playing music is such a serious thing.
I mean, I think it's important, but serious maybe
is not the right word. But I take the job seriously
because I feel grateful to be where I am. I feel
grateful to be in the position I am and to be
making music for a living. And so for that reason,
I bring that level of intensity because I always
want to bring quality and I want to bring excellence
to the ensemble. you know there are times in
weeks where i'm not feeling great and maybe i
don't feel like i'm bringing excellence i'm just
bringing something that's decent and that doesn't
feel good to me because that's the kind of individual
i am this is not acceptable to me so i have to
be kind to myself and realize i can't bring that
bar that bar i just can't i can't bring it every
single time but um it's something i strive for
so sometimes some people watch me on stage who
know me personally and they find it shocking
how serious I look sitting in the ensemble. Even
my parents have said this to me that I look so
serious. And I tell them I'm concentrating. I'm
very much concentrating. I'm listening to a hundred
different things, watching a bunch of things.
You know, I think we all are. But yeah, I find
the job is challenging. And especially when you're
trying to set the bar as high as I try to set
it, it's even more challenging. So I need everything
I can. to do the job as well as I want to do
it. So that's probably what you're seeing and
what other people see when they see this intensity
on my face, which is quite contrasting, I think,
to my normal sort of giddy, happy personality.
Yeah. Some people say it looks like I'm pissed
off when I'm sitting in the chair. And I think
it's just I just don't have any energy to show
emotion. It's all going into my ears and my eyes
and my body. And yeah, I get that. I get that.
I think probably the majority of the musicians
on stage I would think, you know, we we believe
in what we're doing. We're lucky that we're the
ones who get to be doing it. And like we want
to serve it well. We want to do a good job because
we believe in this thing and we believe that
it matters. Yeah. And I get that vibe from you
big time all the time, Max. Yeah. And I think
that my my focus at work, one of the one of my
biggest focuses is to try and play well, not
just for myself, but to make the lives of the
people around me. easier make make people's jobs
easier that is a big goal of mine it's probably
like the top three things that i probably try
to bring to work and i think as a section player
we need to have that focus on. Trying to make
what we are doing a part of what's happening
around us and and eating our leaders and the
other section players and doing their job even
better and so that's something that's always
on my mind there's always a collaborative mindset
to it's rarely just i'm gonna play my part as
well as i can. And I'm going to forget everything
else. Sometimes, like, I have to get in that
mindset, but it's rarely just that it's only
attached to what is everyone else doing? What
is going on in this in this piece? And how can
my part eight other people in sounding their
best and making them feel like they can do their
best as well? Totally, totally. A third horn
is an interesting position, and it's a position
that doesn't really exist in the same way in
any other section of the orchestra. Right. That's
true. Can you talk us through that a little bit?
Third horn position in the section is unique
because well one is unique because just the horn
section itself is unique in that every single
position in our section is different and does
a different thing and oftentimes we have completely
separate parts most of the time I would say we
have completely separate parts whereas in other
sections of the orchestra I would say primarily
in the strings the section players are not playing
independent parts, at least a majority of the
time. Sometimes there's divisi and the section
split off, but in the winds and brass, oftentimes
our parts are completely separate. And in the
horn section, they're sort of designated by high,
low, generally. It's becoming less of that as
composers write music and sort of push the boundaries
of that. I find that they treat members of the
horn section as if we can do everything, which
we can. We're trained to do everything. But we
see in sort of our classical romantic composers
of the 20th, 19th century, we see this mindset
of the odd numbers are high and the even numbers
are low. And so we see that in music, where the
first and third horns are playing high and the
second and fourth horns play low. It's not always
the case. Yeah, so with that said, third horn
is sort of the second high horn designate in
the section. And it's also the second soloist
in the section. I'm often the one that receives
solos. If the principal is not playing the solo,
it's often me playing the solo. It's not always
the case, but it is the case in a lot of pieces
like Mahler and Strauss and Brahms and Stravinsky
and Tchaikovsky, lots of these major composers.
I think some of that stems back to the way the
horn section was set up in terms of natural horns.
Right, so like before there were valves, on the
horn or on a trumpet or any brass instrument,
like you'd have to kind of set up your plumbing
to be in a certain key, right? So in like Brahms
or in like the Weber, their Freischütz overture,
very famous horn quartet thing there, the first
and second horn would be playing a matched pair
of instruments in one key and third and fourth
would be playing a matched pair in a different
key. So the composers would let these two pairs
of a high player and a low player let themselves
use Two different sets of notes mm -hmm right
and in Brahms you see this as well right so the
third horn is then sort of like a second first
horn Yes, definitely and I think that it provides
the composer with a lot of variety at a time
when they wouldn't have that variety if they
gave everyone the same key because there's not
enough time for people to be playing and then
Run down and grab their crook and stick it back
in and put it back up to their face like it just
is um it's limiting in that way. And you do find
that in pieces where the first horn sort of play
something and then third horn comes in a different
sort of tonic or different key a bit higher or
a bit lower. And so yeah, it's that is definitely
some of the the roots of where the third horn
where that comes from where the third horn is
sort of the second principle in the section,
in some ways, and that's carried on into the
20th, and even 21st century, even though we're
not limited by those crooks, or by the crook
by the crook changes. Chris sidebar, have you
ever Been like changing crooks in concerts on
stage. Yes. It's nerve wracking. Yeah, it's not
fun. I don't even like to empty water on the
stage, let alone there. There's so many bits
and bobs. I'm always afraid I'm going to drop
something with also like the worry about putting
the wrong one in if you have like more than one
that you're switching to. And if you're not someone
who is a natural horn. Enthusiast like i'm i
would not consider myself to be someone who spent
a lot of pedagogical time with a natural horn
so i wouldn't trust myself. If i'm gonna play
natural on the orchestra i'm just gonna stick
i'm just trying to hope i can stick with the
one crook. Yeah playing third horn is a really
interesting job is i think that i do everything
okay i can often be the soloist within the section.
It could be surprising even sometimes when all
of a sudden it's just me out of nowhere in a
piece of music maybe that's new to me and all
of a sudden it's the third horn alone and. You
sort of wonder why did the composer choose to
give the third horn the solo and they've been
giving the first the solos for the first couple
movements you wonder if it's about giving the
first breaks or if it's just about if they really
did think about you know allowing. individuals
within the section to have these moments if they
had that on their mind or are you know is it
musical inspiration is it more thinking about
the orchestration yeah i think that the third
gets the solos and then at the same time i sort
of hold down the the high lines so that the principle
can feel like they can take a step back if they
need to to save their chops for their big solos
that are coming up. There's so many pieces I
can think of where the first horn is buried with
these heavy, loud lines that are high right before
they play something that is really exposed. And
in that way, it's not setting that person up
for success and to feel their best. And we see
this with some of the greatest composers that
really knew what they were doing. But in terms
of the humanity of what we do, I think I can
offer some help to the principal, but that does
put a lot of weight on me. It puts weight on
me to hold down these difficult parts, these
high parts, and to really lean into them, regardless
of what my principal is doing in front of me
or next to me, just so that they hear that and
it sort of gives them that feeling like, okay,
I can stop. I can stop for a second and take
a good breath, even if it's just a beat or two.
take the horn out of their face, take a really
good breath, come in and set them up for success.
And those are things that nobody hears in the
orchestra or in the audience. Maybe some people
in the ensemble are aware of it, but it's a very
nuanced thing. And if I'm doing it well, you
shouldn't hear it. It should just sound like
the horns are playing a strong line and then
the principle continues on and effortlessly moves
into a solo. And that's what it should sound
like. And that's my goal. as third horn, so yeah,
now you can contribute a lot to Nikki's quality
of life. Definitely. And I can also make her
life terribly difficult. And I remind her of
that when she gets a little sassy with me. But
you two have a certain relationship longevity.
Yes. Are you alluding to our childhood? Yes,
I have childhood connections. Yeah. So our principal
horn, Nicolette Levante, we went to middle school
and high school together. Although she sometimes
acts as if we didn't go to middle school. But
I don't know why. Maybe I was just a loser. But
Nikki was always smart and she was always capable
and she was always a hard worker. And she always
sounded beautiful on the horn, even since she
was 13 years old that I can remember. And she
was very dedicated. And that has not changed.
If anything, she's just evolved over time. But
Yeah, we were in middle school together a year
apart and then high school together a year apart.
So there was this natural competition we lived
maybe less than a kilometer from each other we
got we got on the same bus every day and Sort
of went our separate ways after high school,
but Nikki was always one step ahead of me and
she was always the leader in my High school ensembles
and middle school ensembles. And so Yes, it's
been really wild to reconnect after essentially
almost a decade of being apart and both of us
sort of going to different universities, studying,
improving, entering into the period of time I
think where you evolve the most as a player is
in sort of your university years. You really
develop your strong fundamental basis. You really
sort of pick maybe a school of thought around
sound or around approach and you commit to that
over time. And so it was really interesting to
see her come here and audition for the orchestra
and hear how different she sounded of course
as anyone would. After years of experience playing
both professionally and also multiple university
degrees so yeah we have a really special relationship
in the same way i would say that we weren't necessarily
such close friends in high school and middle
school i think a year apart sounds like nothing
but if you know if you recall in high school
and middle school elementary years apart can
seem like a lot. And it seems like people sort
of don't speak to people who are not in their
year. And so in some ways, we didn't have the
closest relationship. And we've been able to
develop one now. And I absolutely love Nikki.
She's super fun. I love getting in arguments
with her as you do regularly. Yes, we are often
times arguing like during rehearsals. And it's
it's not actual, you know, this really angry
arguments. It's more Like she has an opinion
and I have an opinion and I'm not willing to
to back up from my opinion and she's and she's
telling me well she's the boss and I have to
listen to her and I'm telling her that I have
human rights and there's things like that and
those those conversations back and forth and
I'm like you're you know you're not my boss really
on paper it's more a musical thing I can choose
to not listen and things like that and she reminds
me that she can also make my life hard and it's
it's fun we have a lot of fun there's this like
natural sort of bickering thing that happens
and I would say that um people who bicker to
each other to their face, I think, really like
each other. I think if you don't like somebody,
you don't bicker to them directly. No, the vibe
is very clear, observing from a few chairs down
the line that there is a real relationship of
mutual respect there. And it's fun to see the
way that you two display that. Yes, it's really
fun. And I think that some of it honestly stems
back to just like... trying to make the environment
of playing in the orchestra feel fun and feel
lighthearted and feel like you can joke around
a little bit within the professional approach
that we need to have. And there are times when
I need certain people to whack me or remind me
to focus because there's certain things that
are going on that I need to be listening to.
But, you know, the playful mindset, I think,
is a benefit. I think we play better because
we have this a little bit of a lighthearted approach
where we are committed to doing our absolute
best, but we're still having fun. So I think
I try to encourage that and inspire that, not
just within the section, but within the orchestra
as well. I try to joke around with my colleagues
and just let people know that, you know, they're
doing well. I think they sound beautiful. And
I try to like crack a joke, make people laugh,
try to make sure everyone's having a good time
because it can sometimes it can get a little
a little too serious sometimes. Sure. Yeah, it's
a job like any other. But we get to make this
music and we get to spend time with these great
colleagues. Yeah, for sure. So Max, when you're
not playing the horn, I know you have one other
area of extreme enthusiasm, and that is the fiber
arts. Yes, I'm a very passionate fiber artist,
if you will. I dabble in a lot of different areas
within the fiber arts. I have started as a knitter,
knitting lots of sweaters in university and college
time. I remember when you came to the CPO one
day, you wore a sweater. Was it a Fair Isle sweater
that you made and you wore it to work? And I
saw other colleagues eyes light up when they
clocked. Oh, that's a nice sweater. Oh, that's
a hand knit sweater. You made a lot of friends
that day. Yes, I still have colleagues that come
up to me every time I wear a hand knit sweater.
And they just want to talk to me about how much
they love it, which is very nice. And from there,
I learned to spin my own yarn on spinning wheels
in sort of an ancient tradition. and that led
me to a lot of other things as well including
weaving as well as spindle spinning which is
sort of just like spinning yarn except not on
a wheel but on a stick with a weight so the ancient
art forms intrigue me for whatever reason and
i would say that the horn in some ways is is
sort of an ancient art form not quite as old
fiber arts but there is something that i definitely
love about old forms of crafting And Max, if
people want to see what you're up to with all
your fiber arts, where can they follow you on
social media? OK, this is cringy, but my Instagram.
What do they call it? Handle, is that the right
word? I think so. Handle Instagram handle is
Max will spin because my name is Maxwell. Pause
for laughter. Max will spin on Instagram and
that page. it's just devoted to me sharing my
love of all my fiber crafts and there's lots
of fun videos of me doing those doing those crafts
and i've even ventured into teaching now i'm
teaching fiber arts too professionally i've started
uh giving workshops uh here and there where i'm
teaching about spinning or or yeah it's been
mainly about spinning um i have quite proficiency
with producing yarn, making yarn. And it's a
big interest of mine. And it's it's become something
that I'm getting paid to do. But I'm trying to
keep it small, very little once in a while, because
I don't want to commoditize every, every single
thing that I enjoy. It felt it feels like music
used to be my hobby, and used to be the place
I'd go to get away from things. And it still
isn't that it still is that in some ways. But
it's certainly a big part of my my professional
life now and it does remove some of that raw
joy from it. So trying to keep a healthy balance
of that and not allow everything that I enjoy
doing that I happen to be good at become something
that I have to make money from. So reminding
myself of that. Yeah, yeah, that's I think that's
very healthy. Okay, Max, we've beaten around
the bush long enough. Tell me about your dog.
Oh, June. Oh, She's just the best thing, best
thing in the world. If you have a dog and you're
listening, then you know, I don't have to explain
this to you. Adam has a dog, Klaus. That's right.
Who I love. And I didn't have a dog for a long
time. I actually didn't have any pets for a long
time. I think my parents sort of thought of me
as a pet in some ways. And so they didn't need
to get one because they already had one that
cost a lot of money and it's breaking everything.
And it was difficult. I think I've evolved from
that. uh label but um they said when you're older
you can get your you can get your own pet and
you can take care of it uh which in hindsight
is sort of that's smart that's the right that's
the right way to think about it now that i'm
an adult and i got a dog her name is jun i absolutely
love her she's she's sort of my emotional support
animal even though she's not labeled that legally
uh she is that for me in a lot of ways um she's
just wonderful to have and there's this natural
companionship that you get from having an animal
and something that relies on you to take care
of it in so many ways. I think there's just a
special relationship that you develop with your
animal, whether it's dog or cat. And my love
of animals is something that I've pursued outside
of work as well. I have a dog, but I also volunteer.
I volunteer at the Calgary Humane Society, which
is a shelter sort of in the southeast of Calgary.
And I... feel very passionately you know that
our role as humans is to is to love and care
for the animals that are vulnerable and need
our help and I think that in some ways we have
been the problem in creating some of the issues
that animals are encountering in terms of animals
that are not neutered or spayed quickly enough
and then produce litters of dogs that then don't
have places to live and things like that. So
I think it's our responsibility really, um, to
help. So I have volunteered at the Cougar Mane
Society for about a year now. And I even got
volunteer of the month, one month, which was
really special, uh, really, really special. And
I just try to be an advocate, try to be an advocate
for both animals, but also for people. The reason
why it's called. Calgary Humane Society is because
it's trying to teach people how to be more humane
in their actions with animals and how they are
with animals. And so it's an educational approach
towards both the person and the animal as well.
And that's been nice. I really need those other
avenues to explore interests and other things
I have. I think it really benefits my playing.
It benefits my love of music and i feel like
i bring more to the table artistically if i have
more of a holistic life which seems like common
sense but i think for a long time i didn't have
a very holistic life i think it was very music
focused uh as as you sort of need to be when
you're on the audition trail and things like
that but as a professional and as someone who's
uh making a career as a musician i find that
i need that diversity in my life i need to spend
time doing other things i enjoy and i find that
The more I do that, the more I have to bring.
Actually, when I come back to the instrument,
I think I bring something even more special artistically
to the orchestra when I have a more unique and
diverse life outside of music. Absolutely. When
you grow as a human being, you grow as an artist.
I don't I don't think there's any mystery there.
Definitely. Yeah. Cool. Well, Max, in your years
here, you've heard a lot of great playing on
stage. You've made a lot of great friends. Who
are the people in the orchestra who's playing
inspires you? I want to preface this by saying
that I'm not saying this person's name because
they said my name on their episode, though it
did mean a lot to me. But I thought a lot about
this and I knew this question was coming. And
for me, it has to be Nikki, our Prince of Warren
player. Nikki is for me. the epitome of what
you want to hear from a principal horn. And I
don't say that lightly. I think that she brings
so much enthusiasm and energy and intention to
what she's doing in the chair. It's almost overwhelming
sometimes listening to her play, just how passionate
she is with everything she does on the horn.
And it's incredibly inspiring to me being a horn
player and I think it's equally inspiring to
other people in the ensemble when you hear someone
like that in the principal chair just bringing.
That fervor for what they're doing and I think
we hear it from you Adam and we hear it from
lots of other excellent principles in the orchestra.
But you know we didn't have a principal horn
for a number of years there and our lovely associate
Jen. Was holding down the fort and sounded incredible
on many many many programs But filling that chair,
I think has been really impactful for the entire
section Especially for me as a section player
just having a leader that I can Follow and a
leader that I believe in and Nikki is that person
for me 100 % it was clear to me the day of auditions
that there was this one player that I absolutely
loved and it just happened so happened to be
her and It's been just a joy having her in this
section. I think I play better when I play with
Nikki. I think I'm a better musician, a better
person being around Nikki, playing with Nikki.
It makes me love the job even more. And I think
that the quality of our life at work, I think
is affected a lot by the people around us and
how they're playing and who they are as people.
So I'm extremely appreciative of what Nikki brings.
That's lovely, Max. Well, thanks for sitting
down and talking with me, Max. It's always a
pleasure. Thank you for having me. Notes from
the Stage is an independent production of the
Calgary Philharmonic Players Association. The
opinions expressed here are our own and do not
reflect those of the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra.
Our thanks to Nathan Chandler for his technical
expertise. The music in this episode was The
Bagatelle by Herman Noyling performed by Maxwell
Stein and pianist Deanna Oye. On our next episode
in two weeks, I'll be talking with violist Alisa
Klebanoff. Talk to you soon!