Hi there, and welcome to Notes from the Stage,
a show from the musicians of the Calgary Philharmonic.
We're the people playing our hearts out every
week of the orchestra season. I'm Adams Innatelli.
Usually I play first trumpet in the Calgary Philharmonic
Orchestra, but today I'm your host, and I'm here
with Jim Scott, principal trombone of the CPO.
Hi, Jim. Hi, Adam. How you doing? Very well,
thanks. So we've been back at work for a few
weeks now, back in the swing of things. I know
that I'm starting to feel more adjusted to being
back in the orchestra season. It's a big... change
of pace for us going from summertime, summertime
unemployment, and whatever we make of that into
the grind of the orchestra season. How are things
going for you? Good. I try and stay in shape
for the most part during the summer. So that's,
that's helpful. Still, there's always little
things that you haven't kept up on. And I do
try and take a little bit of a break, but not
a total break from the instrument. Yeah, for
sure. You know, taking some time off is great,
but then there's this sort of wall to climb back
up to get back in shape and be presentable again.
Yeah, every summer I feel like it's going to
be OK, but then when I'm in it, it feels it feels
a little bit overwhelming. But then you get back
to it and your body remembers. I always find
things like maybe haven't touched the alto trombone
too much or things like that. Yeah, there's no
substitute for really being in the orchestra,
playing with the people in the hall, it's really
different from anything we can do in the practice
room. So Jim, one of the perks of your job or
one of the hazards of your job is that you get
to sit next to me all the time. Oh, it's a pleasure.
Oh, thanks, Jim. If it wasn't, would you tell
me? No, we have a lot of fun in the back row
where we are, that's for sure. Jim, you've been
in the CPO for how many years now? This is the
start of year 44. Year 44. That's an incredible
achievement. I think, you know, I obviously wasn't
around when you started here, but I think you're
still sounding just phenomenal. And I can only
hope that when I'm nearing that length of service
in the orchestra that I'm still, you know, delivering
to the level that you are, because it's really
impressive. Well, this is when I get to say,
would you really tell me if I wasn't? You know,
Jim, I wanted to ask you, like, So much has changed
in the orchestra in my 15 years in the orchestra.
But for you, looking back to when you arrived,
so much will have changed in this orchestra.
Can you tell us a little bit about what things
were like in your early days in the CPO? Sure.
The orchestra was smaller. It's the same size
that Edmonton is now. Interestingly, both orchestras
were the same size. They both played in... Carbon
copy Jubilee auditoriums. The first thing that
really changed was when they hired Mario Bernardi
as the music director. One of the things he insisted
upon as part of his being hired was expansion
of the orchestra. He had spent all those years
in the National Arts Center, which, by the way,
has also expanded since then, but they were sort
of government regulated to be a chamber orchestra.
And so he was hoping to do more of that literature
he really wasn't able to do there. And so we
saw some major growth. During that time, we also
started recording and we started touring. You
know, those recordings include that set of Schumann
symphonies, right? Boy, I love those recordings.
I still, you know, I'll be, you know, cooking
dinner or driving along and I'll have CBC radio
on and I'll hear this. oh this is great Schumann
sounds great what great music what a great performance
and I always then hear that was the Calgary Philharmonic
with Mario Bernardi conducting and boy It's always
a treat to hear those recordings. There's a few
little unusual things there. He was very taken
with George Zell and everything that Zell did.
And he spent some time in the Cleveland Orchestra
Library going through Zell's scores. So there's
some re -orchestrations in there that it keeps
coming up when we play Schumann symphonies that
they're still in the parts and people are always
asking the conductor. And the connector always,
you know, of course, it's not Mario anymore.
I've never seen that before. So there's a few
things in there that are a little unusual. Yeah.
Just for the layperson, can you just tell us
who George Zell was? George Zell was the music
director of Cleveland Orchestra for a long period
of time. Yeah, a really iconic conductor of the
stage. Yeah, major, you know, along with people
like Toscanini and Fritz Reiner and, you know,
those are names that are still sort of household
names in the classical music field. Von Karajan,
people like that. Yeah. So you were talking about
touring as well. Yes. We started off small. They
tried to do some practice tours. So we went out
to the interior of British Columbia. Which ended
up being almost more of a bit of a vacation.
Cause things, some of the concerts got canceled
and then flights got delayed. And so it was too
bad except that we, we ended up with days off
right near some of the nice BC ski hills. So
some of us had, had, uh, got some ski days. It
was a winter tour, like weather cancellations
and things like that. Oh man, that's too bad.
But you know what? Like better to learn that
lesson on a, on a tour close to home than being
abroad. Right. And then of course, the next two
tours were, there was one that went to Toronto.
We actually couldn't get into the hall in Montreal
just with the timing. So we played in Joliet,
which is not that far. Then we hit a couple of
the smaller centers, Kitchener, St. Catharines.
I'm trying to remember. I think Thunder Bay was
on that tour, too. OK. That was a little bit
out of the way, you know, obviously. It was interesting
because actually Kitchener and Thunder Bay have
halls that are very similar to ours because they
were designed by the same person. Yeah, Artek,
right? Yeah. So that was it felt like home, you
know? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. And then a few years
later, we did a tour that included a couple of
stops in the US so that we again, we hit Toronto.
and Montreal proper this time, and Kennedy Center,
Carnegie, and Boston Symphony Hall. Oh, that's
great. And this was all with Bernardi. That was
with Bernardi. Although, interestingly, in Boston,
we also, because our Pops conductor was Richard
Heyman, had a long association with Boston Pops.
So we actually did a Pops concert at the end
of the tour with him. Oh, that's fun. Kind of
a fundraiser. thing and it was in a hotel ballroom.
In fact, it might have even been our hotel. I
don't remember that for fact. Oh, that's neat.
Of course, everyone in the orchestra, whether
they were there or not, knows all the stories
about Richard Heyman, who was a master of orchestra
pops. Not a great conductor in the sort of classical
sense of it. But a good, really good musician
and he stayed out of the way with the conducting,
you know, he was just very matter of fact about
his, his technique being just, just so, so. But
you know, I think you told me a story about his
ability to hear an arrangement and make adjustments
on the fly and turn something mediocre into something
spectacular. Yeah. That fact, that was exactly
where I was just going to go. He would. Just
realize that things needed a cut sometimes, you
know, like we weren't going to play a full symphony
or whatever. Although we did, we did actually
do the scherzo from Bruckner four with him once
at a pop show. Wow. Either to start the concert
or start the second half. I don't remember. No,
he would look at something like whether it was
a new arrangement from somebody or maybe it would
be a classical overture or something. And he'd
just say, it's a bit too long for what we need.
And he could just look at a score. And usually,
of course, it was like something literally he
was just being handed and just say, OK, this
will work if we go from letter A to the third
bar of letter C. And it would be just perfect
harmonically, even form wise, you know, like
just sort of basic form of the piece of music.
Yeah. He just had that that sense of how it was
built and where he could adjust it. The other
thing that was kind of unusual with Richard,
his instrument was the harmonica. And he was
actually quite good. I get a funny sort of style,
you know, like very stylized, something that
you would have heard in the 30s, 40s, 50s, maybe.
But he could get a lot of sounds out of that
instrument. That was quite surprising, actually.
Oh, wonderful. That's wonderful. But Tours, I
know that after Bernardi, the next music director
of the orchestra was Hans Graf. Exactly. And
Hans took us to Europe. which was just, it was
sort of his going away present to the orchestra,
if you may. He did a lot at that end to make
it happen. His manager, I think, had something
to do with a lot of the managing on the European
side of things. Yeah, it was to Austria, Switzerland,
one stop each in France and Germany. Fantastic.
I heard a lot of my colleagues who were on that
tour speak extremely fondly of that experience,
that it was very special. It was in so many ways.
I mean, playing the Schumann, speaking of Schumann
symphonies, I mean, the Schumann symphonies are
like a bad penny for this orchestra. They follow
us around all the time because because in addition
to recording those symphonies with Bernardi,
we took them on on some of those tours, particularly
the he did the second. on tour and he actually
did the third I think on a little tour within
the province. And of course Hans took the third
symphony on the European tour along with I believe
the other program was Tchaikovsky fourth. There
were two different concertos sort of mix and
match depending on availability of the soloists
and then a Canadian piece that opened. And so
playing the Schumann third, the Renish which
as you know, sitting next to me is a pretty big
deal if you're a first trombone player. And playing
that in the Musikverein in Vienna, it's like
a career highlight. Absolutely. Yeah, that's
a very special symphony. And it's five movements.
Most symphonies tend to be four movements, generally
speaking. This one's five. And it sort of has
the standard two sort of larger outside movements.
And then you have a scherzo and a slow movement.
But it has this magical fourth movement, this
beautiful chorale that starts with this very
solemn, extremely special statement of this soaring
melody with the first trombone, the alto trombone,
singing this beautiful melody. And it's an incredibly
special moment. And I love sitting next to you
and hearing you play it and hearing the whole
trombone section play this beautiful chorale.
That's something that the trombone just does
so well. That's kind of part of our history,
although I will tell you that that one, yeah,
that takes years off your life. That's actually
the piece, especially when I knew we were going
to record it, that no one played alto trombone
back when I was a student, and it was extremely
rare. But it was slowly starting to make a comeback,
and people were still somewhat resistant to it.
and I got over any resistance to it when I realized
I had to record that and had to learn the instrument.
That required a bunch of practicing in very different
ways to learn another instrument and another
set of slide positions in the whole nine yards,
but it does make that a little bit more doable.
As far as the corrals go, yeah, it's funny that
you mention that, because that was something
I was thinking about when we talked about doing
this, that that's so much a part of what the
instrument does. I mean, the instrument, the
trombone's a pretty old instrument and, you know,
really came into very near its present form a
long time ago in the Renaissance, really, you
know, broke. I mean, slight differences for sure.
like the Baroque Renaissance trombone. It had
a bell, it had a slide. Yeah. And basically the
modern form of the instrument and it was refined.
An instrument like the trumpet, of course, didn't
have valves back then. It's changed greatly.
An instrument like the tuba didn't exist at all
back then. Right. You know, it had predecessors
that were wildly different from the modern instruments.
But yeah, the trombone is really a time capsule.
But it also wasn't really a part of the symphony
orchestra. It was in opera a little bit and certainly
in oratorios. And it was really an instrument
of the church. You know, we were the first fully
chromatic brass instrument, like you say, with
the slide. So that meant we could play the white
and black notes on the piano keyboard. You know,
whereas you'd have to be a Baroque version of
Maynard Ferguson to get to the point where you
get to the half steps on a Baroque trumpet. Just
thinking about the use of the trombone as a church
instrument, this very sort of serious, solemn
instrument. We're playing Don Giovanni at the
opera. And you know, that's, you know, a two,
three hour opera. How much do the trombones play?
About 10, 15 minutes of that, all near the end.
Yeah. And it's at the end when, you know, the
stone guest comes to life and, you know, Don
Giovanni is doomed for his sins, right? It's
really used to evoke this traditional sense of
the instrument that you've been talking about.
Sure. Since it was a church instrument and they
were fully chromatic. And if you hear a choir
of trombones play, it's very reminiscent of an
organ. That's how composers used us, and partly
because that was the job in the church. I mean,
let's face it, before all kinds of heating and
things to deal with temperature, you could take
a set of trombones outside to play a funeral
up until the worst... possible weather, which
of course, worst possible weather, you weren't
burying that person until the spring anyway.
So, you know, in all but the worst weather, you
know, whereas sure the woodwinds were fully chromatic,
but nobody's going to take an oboe or bassoon
out on a rainy day. And, you know, with the variance
of pitches of organs and things like that, the
trombone could always accommodate a little bit
as well. Yeah. Because of that blended quality,
they became associated a lot with being able
to accompany singers. So the alto trombone, for
instance, often doubles the altos in the chorus.
Yeah, just before we press record on this episode,
we were talking about the Mozart C major mass
that we're playing in January. That's going to
be lots of fun. But yeah, the trombone parts
like in that and in the Mozart Requiem are very
virtuosic. Honestly, I think sometimes in the
Requiem, it might be because Mozart himself didn't
really write all of that. Sure. Yeah. And so
we have a lot of a lot of different versions
out there. We don't really know because he died
before completing it, obviously. And there's
a few things that are in the sketches, like there's
a famous solo, by the way, of audience interest.
It's a famous solo that's in the second trombone
part because the instruments that were being
used at that time and then again we we do that
nowadays in modern performances were in different
keys. The instrument is in the second trombone
part because it was the tenor trombone part and
it wanted something in that register, that kind
of sound. So there's actually a little bit of
a history of some of the best solos in the literature,
unfortunately for me, showing up in the second
trombone part. Yeah, we're playing Scheherazade
this season as well. And, you know, again, those
solos are in the second trombone, Rysky -Korsakov
always did that. Yeah, Russian Easter as well.
Yeah, that's right. Beautiful solo. You were
talking about the trombone section being used
like an organ. It's no surprise. that the trombone
section is one of the favorite parts of the orchestra
for the composer Anton Bruckner. And we are playing
his eighth symphony on Friday, October 18th and
Saturday, October 19th, 730 at the Jack Singer
Concert Hall with Rune Bergman, our music director,
conducting. And boy, I know I'm looking forward
to these concerts. I'm looking forward to that
one a lot, too. I've never really had a chance
to perform that in my whole career. So I haven't
played it either. It's kind of a bucket list
piece. Absolutely. This always feels like You
know, all the Bruckner symphonies have their
own their own character. But this one to me really
feels sort of like the big mountain to climb,
you know? Well, you know, I was looking at a
little bit about Bruckner sort of thinking about
preparing to talk to you about some of this stuff.
And I was seeing that, I mean, first of all,
he was a choir boy at the St. Florian Monastery
and the cathedral outside of Linz, Austria. You
know, that was sort of his early musical training
there. A couple things struck me. One is I saw
that much of the music that was being performed
when he was a young, young boy, they listed off
the composers and a couple of them, Al Brecksberger
and Wagensleil wrote trombone concertos for the
alto trombone back then. Which was a bit of a
rarity, right? Exactly. Yeah. They're very, so
I found that interesting. He was playing music
and singing music as a child that was written
by these composers who had been advocates for
the trombone. Yeah, and they probably had trombonists
on staff at that cathedral playing along. It
was quite common back then. They weren't part
of the symphony orchestra. And when they started
to show up in the symphony orchestra, I mean,
it's always credited to Beethoven. He used them
in the last movement of the Fifth Symphony. I
found out, though, usually that, you know, Beethoven's
credited with it, but there were probably some
people ahead of him that just, you know, their
music didn't survive so much, you know. He was
the first sort of major composer to think of
that. But sure enough, I mean, when you hear
the music, the last movement of the Beethoven
Fifth, it's very hymn -like. It's like a hymn
of joy, kind of Beethoven snapshot of what was
going to happen in the Beethoven 9th. That association
with chorales and religious themes followed the
instrument around all the way through in Brahms.
uses that so much as well. And Wagner uses chorales
and things like that, even though he's not writing
particularly religious music, but sort of spiritual.
Yeah, Parsifal is very religious, but other than
that. Yeah. And then so for Bruckner, Bruckner
was very, a very religious man. Extremely Catholic.
Extremely Catholic. I mean, you know, raised
in the monastery for much of his life and, you
know, very cloistered life. He uses that chorale
kind of thing. Even the opening of the last movement
of the Bruckner 8th, which is very aggressive,
has this sense of the harmony of the three trombones
together, sort of laying out the theme and the
trumpets answer with these wild fanfares. Yeah,
but like the beginning of that last movement
is marked feierlich, solemn. song, but not too
fast, is the marking in that movement. And if
you just hear the trombones play on their own,
it sounds like a chorale. You know, it's this
incredible upward line, and it's very, very beautiful.
The energy, the pulsating heartbeat of that is
coming from the rest of the orchestra, especially
the violins with this... It's an incredible moment.
And Bruckner does this a lot, where there's this
contrast between... characters of different parts
of the orchestra that make for this beautiful
compound effect. Although it is a chorale that's
marked fortissimo. The people that sit in front
are well aware of that, but it's got energy.
Yeah, absolutely. For me, the best part of the
symphony is just before the last sort of loud
section at the end of the movement, the big climax,
the first two chords of that chorale at the beginning
of the last movement come back. You know, and
it's stated all through the orchestra and different
groups of instruments and it builds and it builds
and the harmony changes. That's the most magical
part of this symphony for me. Yeah, it's not
the big arrival at the end. It's leading into
the big arrival at the end. I think it's interesting
too that, I mean, it definitely happened with
Bruckner to some degree. Verdi, Berlioz, all
these other composers followed up on the idea
of a chorale, but they also, no surprise, started
to add. trumpets and horns and and of course
tuba into that as well because it makes perfect
sense once you once those instruments became
chromatic to use them in that way too. Like in
Brahms four right there's the beautiful trombone
chorale and the horn takes the line the trumpets
just play a note here and there is punctuation
to add some color but it's also just because
the instruments at the time didn't have all the
notes. Right. You just reminded me of something
I saw just the other day. It was a quote from
Barbara Butler, famous trumpet teacher. She and
her husband, Charlie, who just unfortunately
passed away recently, produced a lot of great
players, including your former teacher. Yeah.
Yeah. Miranda and I both studied with a student
of Barbara and Charlie. Exactly. So it's like
you're like grand students of her now. Yeah.
Yeah. But, uh, she mentions, you feel different
elements of music in different ways. And rhythmic
music, you feel it in your body and your feet.
Great melodies you feel in your heart. And then
when something is just beautiful chords and beautiful
harmonies, you feel that in your soul. Yeah,
I think that's wonderful. Yeah, it's a great
quote. And I think that that is the appeal of
Bruckner, his harmony. It was groundbreaking
at the time. Not that people didn't have beautiful
harmonies in their symphonies and it's not dissonant
so much. I mean there's some dissonances of course
in anything from the romantic era on, but it's
not dissonant music as much as it doesn't settle
in one place. Okay Jim, now that we've talked
so much about work, about music and all these
things, it's time to get to the truly important
stuff. Please tell us about your dog. You know,
when you were talking about practicing, you know,
in the summer and coming back into the season,
what one of the best things about coming back
in the season is I can have more opportunities
to play my horn all by myself without my dog
joining in. Everyone's a critic. So yes, I have
a great Pyrenees or she might be a mix. We're
not, not really sure because she was a rescue
named Chloe, about a hundred pounds or so. Yeah,
she loves to sing along and I'm yet to figure
out if she's upset or or if she just thinks it's
a really great game. But either way, it's something
you notice, particularly when you're working
on something that's a little bit difficult and
going through it over and over again. And there's
some howling at Fortissimo. eight feet away yeah
that's right i remember at some point you told
me you were listening to the Hindemith sonatas
for all the brass instruments and you know she
was fine she was fine she was fine and then as
soon as the piano accompaniment started for the
trombone sonata she started freaking out am i
getting that right actually wrong dog oh earlier
dog i've unfortunately had this is my third dog
and all of them have been uh The first one, not
as bad as the next two. So he broke me in. So
I thought it wasn't going to be that bad. But
yeah, Chloe is, uh, she's a lot of fun. She's
a very, very beautiful dog. And she's sweetheart.
Yeah. And she's a sweetheart mostly, you know,
once in a while we ran into a coyote the other
day, right in our back alley. And, uh, she was
ready to stand her ground. I had to kind of gently
coax her back into the yard and then she barked
hysterically as he walked on past our property.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think just about
any dog would be on the losing end of that. Although
Chloe, I feel like... Yeah, and actually those
Pyrenees... That's their job. They actually do
go after coyotes and bears and things like that
and basically keep them away from livestock,
sheep, goats. Sometimes they're used to protect
children of royalty in Europe. They would very,
they would bond with the kids and just wouldn't
let anybody, any strangers get that close. Yeah.
Yeah. And I know, um, not too long ago, you were
telling me, Jim, that you were thinking about
getting more into working, working with dogs
and training of dogs. Yeah, it's, you know, retirement
beckons, you know, fairly soon. And, uh, with
Chloe, I took her to a certain amount of training
cause, uh, that Pyrenees, uh, Yeah. You have
to make sure that you train a dog like that.
Yeah. She, she had a bit of an attitude with
other dogs a lot of times. She still does sometimes.
Uh, she's much better, but, uh, that gave me
a little insight into the training process with,
um, what they call reactive dogs. And, you know,
they're dogs that need a home too. So I was thinking,
obviously I'm not set up to be a trainer personally,
but maybe, you know, reach out to some of the
people that I trained with and see if they need,
you know, just a gopher, somebody that helps
them out a little bit and learns that process
a little bit. And just something to do maybe
in retirement. Yeah, no, that's great. That's
wonderful, Jim. Well, just one last question
for you, Jim. You know, one of the great things
about playing in the CPO is that we have so many
wonderful colleagues who we get to hear play
and perform week in and week out. Who's someone
in the orchestra who's playing you admire? Oh.
There's a lot, actually. Sounds like pandering,
but you're one of them, for sure. We sit near
the bassoons now and I'm really enjoying hearing
Antoine. Yeah, absolutely. when I hear Arnold
play a solo, the principal cello, it's, it's,
that's wonderful. You know, the problem that's
starting down this road is like, it sounds trite,
but it's, it's, it's really everyone to some
degree. I mean, I've the sort of one upside to
COVID was hearing a lot of your colleagues play
in, in sort of a different setting than they
had done before. And hearing so many people rise
to the occasion and discovering that, you know,
someone that toils away in the back of the violin
section is really quite a terrific player, you
know, and you just never get the chance to hear
them as an individual. And like Miranda, for
instance, stepped into first trumpet a bit when
you, when you were out sick and played most of
the season and really she sounded good to begin
with, but especially by the end of the season,
she, you know, she just kept getting more and
more comfortable and everything. Tom, every day.
Yeah, Tom McCaslin. Yeah. To hear Tom play the
tuba, plays it like it's, uh, you know, like
it's a harmonic, like it's something, something
easy. I mean, just, just virtue, virtuosity just,
just like flows out of it. And Dave. Uh, and
Chris, Dave and Chris are both Dave Reed and
Chris Leslie. Exactly. Our bass trombone and
second trombone. Exactly. Sorry. You have to
fill in for here, but they're, they're wonderful
players. And just to, to play with the four of
us together, the, you know, the trombones and
tuba. Yeah. The section is sounding really, really
great. It is just a pleasure every day. You know,
like I come to work and, you know, you can be
having a bad day about something else, like trying
to figure out how to make your computer do what
it. doesn't want to do or or You know the bill
you just got for something that like I thought
I had taken care of this thing and you get to
work and That's all gone For the next two and
a half hours. It's playing with great players
Wonderful. Well, thanks so much Jim. This has
been really fun to sit down with you and talk.
It's a it's a pleasure Notes from the stage is
an independent production of the Calgary Philharmonic
Players Association The opinions expressed here
are our own and do not reflect those of the Calgary
Philharmonic Orchestra. Our thanks to Nathan
Chandler for his technical expertise. Let us
know what you think of the show and check out
our concert calendar at calgaryfilmusicians .ca
to see what we're all up to outside of our regular
performances at the CPO. The music you heard
on this episode is from the Divertimento by Boris
Blocker performed by Jim and me at a recital,
oh, almost 10 years ago now. On our next episode
in two weeks, I'll be talking with the CPO's
new principal harpist, Emily Melendez. Talk to
you soon!