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Hello everyone, Sandow61.

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We are 61 episodes into this grand experiment.

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Today I have an interview with the whale council.

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Whale.me whale members.

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A lot of different words, a lot of different whale words.

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We're going to go over that as part of one of our questions.

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Today I have two people, Mongoose and Nightmare, and we will be learning about the whale members

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and who they are and what they do.

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Welcome Night, welcome Mongoose.

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Hey, Lancer, thanks for having us.

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Yeah, happy to be here.

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So the scope of the talk today is a meet and greet and a learning opportunity.

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Mongoose and Night have graciously given us their time to learn about them.

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And the disclaimer is that none of us represent the sandbox game or the sandbox style foundation.

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We're not your financial or legal advisors and nothing we say is to be taken as financial

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or legal advice.

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When we use the word SIP, we're talking about sandbox improvement proposal.

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When we say the word DAO, we mean decentralized autonomous organization.

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When we use the word SanFam, we're talking about the sandbox community, those who participate

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in the people, product, and the purpose of the sandbox ecosystem.

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That ecosystem looks a little bit like this.

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We went over it in Sandow31.

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The people sector have everything from the gamers to the sandbox team.

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The product is everything from the game client to the DAO itself.

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And the purpose is not only what was in the white paper from 2020, but also what was expanded

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upon by the co-founders, Sebastian Bourget and Arthur Madrid.

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All that together equals that round and round ecosystem that we use and we participate in

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day to day.

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And today's episode is squarely on a very prominent, I could use the word prominent,

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but longstanding OG landowner within the sandbox ecosystem, the whale vault.

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So you've likely seen the big giant whale all over the map.

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This is the team behind that.

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And today we're going to talk about exactly who they are and what they do.

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I have Mongoose, head of partnerships and outreach, and Nightmare, co-founder and head

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of culture.

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Mongoose, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself before we hit Nightmare.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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I'm Mongoose or Ryan.

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Either way is fine by me.

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I'm the head of partnerships and outreach for whale.

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I've been working with whale since about 2022, a member of the community since 2021, and

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generally involved in crypto since 2017.

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And I say all that knowing that some people in the space are having beef right now with

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folks who identify their year associated with crypto.

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So not trying to flex anything here, but just, yeah, yeah.

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I just want to give it some context here.

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But otherwise I come out of a classical music background mixed with some art presentation,

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production, and also tech business.

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So that's where I'm coming from.

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I too have a classical music background.

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I don't think we talk much about that.

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I used to be a composer.

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Oh, yeah.

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When?

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Same.

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I consider myself a lapsed composer, lapsed trumpet player, but ultimately I've always

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found myself supporting the arts and artists, creators essentially, right?

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Anything that's made artisanal, I really get behind and I want to support those folks because

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often they need extra help to do what they're doing and not focusing on some of the more

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administrative operational aspects that some of us can cover a lot better.

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Gotcha.

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And I'm not surprised to find you associate with whale now that I understand the artisanal

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background of it all.

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What led you to the whale members?

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I would say it was back in the day, it was Clubhouse, if you remember that time, right?

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And it was just the beginning of the pandemic or maybe we're square into the pandemic by

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that point.

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But I found myself really needing to find a new artistic outlet.

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And I might have a creative background and enjoy that aspect of the arts.

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But again, I want to be there listening to other people talk about their art, their creative

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process and be involved in that way.

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So I actually heard Whale Shark and Nightmare talking on a Clubhouse talk.

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And what they were saying really resonated with me in terms of access and what Web3 and

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the blockchain really provided to artists, creators, collectors, anybody who was looking

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for provenance, who was looking for equality, who was looking for democracy.

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There's so many aspects here that really hooked me.

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And I followed another person into the whale discord.

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And from there, I immediately just resonated with it.

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And I found myself wanting to listen to all the artists talks, all the artists interviews.

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And then I found myself volunteering to take minutes for Whale Hour that happens once every

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few weeks where all the leadership gets together and talk.

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We're still doing that today.

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And just kind of progress from there.

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And I think that's kind of a typical thing for Web3 is you find yourself just kind of

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constantly immersed to the point where you just naturally want to get involved, right?

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And you lend your talents, your experience, your background to whatever is needed at that

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point.

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So I'm happy to still be along for the ride.

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And 2025 is looking to be just an incredible year.

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So it's great to be here.

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Thank you.

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Glad to have you here, Mongoose.

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Night, how about yourself?

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What a long journey it's been.

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First of all, involved in cryptocurrency relatively early, at least in comparison to the NFT cycle

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and how we find ourselves here on Web3.

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So I have a couple of cycles under my belt.

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I've always been rather tech forward, come from a background being a gamer, come from

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a background being a musician.

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I've released albums and performed broadly where I am and also published a lot.

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And likewise, found myself just immersed in different projects through cryptocurrency.

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I think that I lean pretty libertarian when it comes to fiscal things and autonomy and

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rights and the ability to carry your personification online without social constructs and a lot

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of the things that Web3 really helps enable.

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And I do that while also moonlighting, I guess you could say, with a corporate gig.

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I help manage business and operations for a $8 billion international brand.

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So I carry some of that skill set with me to everything that I also do and have this

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automation of things and interests and skills and found my way to whale when it was kind

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of starting right there at the onset in summer 2020.

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And Whaleshark was coalescing kind of community around tokenization and Web3.

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That was the first community to really do that.

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There was disparate pockets and it was the first thing that kind of broadly took it and

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brought it all together.

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And I was enamored with the possibilities of Web3 of having a home base to do a lot

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of the things that I found fascinating and empowering about the space.

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And much like Mongoose, found myself volunteering to do different things and your skill set

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gets recognized and along the way empowered to do more and more.

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And so I've been fortunate through the years to do a lot of really cool shit from interviewing

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MC Hammer and hanging with Jake Paul and Paris Hilton and all of these people that were along

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for the last cycle for the NFT bull run.

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I'm taking calls with museums and just doing things I never would have dreamed were possible

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otherwise.

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And it's all because of this incredible stuff Web3 provides.

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So I continue to build and we continue to do cool shit and we have a lot of stuff on

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the slate as well for the future.

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But it is an octopus.

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There's so many different realms that we play in and different things.

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And I just, I love it.

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It's a passion for me.

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It always has been and I'm just blessed to be in a position to be able to do something

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about it.

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That's awesome.

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We're definitely getting into that.

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So 2020.

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All right, before we get into the backgrounds and everything else, terminology clarification,

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please help me understand there are so many whale monikers in here.

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How do I parse them out?

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Well I'll preface this by saying whale was the name of the project, whale, period.

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It's just whale, whale.

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It was started by whale shark, his vision in early 2020 after he had been doing a lot

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of collecting in 2019, I think 2018 as well.

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And a project to really bring a lot of the different facets of Web3 that were emerging,

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crypto art, community of creators, gamers, like the guy had 400,000 gods and chain card

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or something crazy like that, right?

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The metaverse.

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And so I think the vision at the time was enabling people to harness the power of multiple

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assets in Web3 and community in Web3 and allow them to become whales, whatever that manifestation

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meant, whether that meant monetarily because they were speculators, whether that meant

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because they had a lot of stuff, whether that meant they roamed in a pod of people with

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like interests and really helped each other.

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And so whale was the name of the project.

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For a long time, there was a Twitter and some media presence.

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We called it whale community to kind of represent that broader base and not just our founder,

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because certainly he has very strong opinions and he did at the time relative to PFPs and

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all this other stuff.

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And as a community, we represent a lot more than that, right?

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Sometimes we definitely butt heads and don't have the same vision.

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And so the project is bigger than him.

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It evolved and he literally handed it off to the community.

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So he collected and had the vision and then donated all of these assets.

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So our entire whale vault, which is, you know, vacillates in value, but right now I think

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our latest valuation was $42 million.

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At peak it was $150 million.

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He donated that to the community and said, hey, this community that I've built, you guys

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run this, this is yours.

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And so the community is how we wanted to reflect a lot of what we do.

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It's different than just whale shark.

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So whale, you can imagine on socials, on whatever, a medium or Twitter, there's going to be a

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million things just called whale.

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So we needed to distinguish what we were and really call out what it is.

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So it became whale community, whale members, whale.me.

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I couldn't even tell you why they picked that domain.

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Maybe that was hot at the time.

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I don't know.

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But, but whale is the name of the project.

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Gotcha.

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And then whale tails, was that like a newsletter?

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Correct.

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Uh, you know, depending on where you are throughout the history here of the past five years, there

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was a time where we were banging out medium articles because that's really what our community

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and with the macro entity community wants.

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So whale tails was that component.

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Um, you know, whale FM was a cycle of gosh mongos.

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At one point we were hitting like 10, 10 different sessions a week where we would live stream

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with artists, with games, with creators.

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And we were just going ham on interviews and live streaming.

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Right?

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So we have a lot of different wings of how we delivered and interacted with the community,

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but really based on the pulse of the community, were they looking for that at the time?

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Were they coalescing elsewhere aggregating towards different things?

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So you know, we've had a lot of different names and iterations for it, but the core

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base of it period is whale.

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Got it.

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And as well, if, and when you interviewed MC Hammer and Paris Hilton.

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Uh, yeah.

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Well, FM was the broad umbrella of anything we took live at the time.

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I think that actually predates Twitter spaces, right?

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And then we carried it over to Twitter space.

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But yeah, like during the, uh, the 2021, 2022 NFT cycle, I mean, you, the gamut came through

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as far as celebrities and interesting people and, you know, celebrities, some of, some

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of them were here for the grift and we tried to have, um, difficult conversations with

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them about it.

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We gave them some more introspective and, and really getting to the crux of why it was

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empowering and trying to champion this to a broader audience.

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If I have a thousand eyeballs because I was interviewing, interviewing cashmere at the

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time, uh, and all those EDM folks were tuning in, then I was trying to, you know, make sure

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that they understood and got some of the messaging on why web three was, was positive as well.

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Right?

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So yeah, we did a lot of cool stuff.

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You know, museum founders, people that were important in the world of science and in politics,

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a lot of very cool conversations and interactions.

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And we continue to have some of those to this day.

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Right on.

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Well, and I'm, I'd also say too, you had, you had, uh, children, you had, you had, uh,

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creators who were very young, very old from all walks of life, right?

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Uh, developers, artists, musicians, you know, uh, nightmare started this, this blog, right?

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Blockchain beats, uh, focus on music NFTs, which is something that, that, um, you know,

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we hadn't seen much of, and I think still is kind of a dark horse in the web three space.

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But you know, that's again, one of the things that really attracted me to whale to get more

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and more involved was just, it was not just focused on ape JPEGs and there's maybe nothing

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wrong with that at the end of the day, but so many web two communities, I feel like have

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very singular myopic visions or they just have blinders on that are focused on just

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going to the moon, whatever it might be.

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And um, you know, you know, whale, whale has a very different scope, which is, which is

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really refreshing.

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Gotcha.

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And that is not to say we're adverse to the other, like I believe speculators and people

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that do want to go to the moon and all that aspect of culture, uh, it's here and it plays

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a role in the macro, but I think having a more balanced take a more nuanced take of,

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you know, how you approach it and community.

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And even when there's divergent opinions, I think that's valuable and that's, that's

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hard to find.

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And we're blessed to have that in large part because of how we came to be like early, there

235
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was no other communities.

236
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,720
And in our community, our discord, our media was the artists shoulder to shoulder with

237
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,320
the builders of the platform.

238
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,280
Sebastian was in there, right?

239
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,520
Ben from crypto voxels was in there.

240
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,400
We had a hack a towel, a lot of money, all these people in our discord, along with the

241
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,680
enthusiasts and people that were just, just checking out web three because they're in

242
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a, in a third world country.

243
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,000
And they think it's something that could empower them.

244
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,800
It's, it was a beautiful, um, you know, combination of different motives and reasons for people

245
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:04,800
to be there.

246
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,120
And I think that that broad base and that rich tapestry that paints our history is part

247
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,640
of why we have a unique position, uh, in, in what we do in web three.

248
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:15,640
Gotcha.

249
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:16,640
Gotcha.

250
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:25,880
So now we have a whale Dow that that's what, uh, and then we have a whale token.

251
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,200
So the whale token has been around for quite some time and, and that itself has remained

252
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,960
pretty strong, pretty unmoved.

253
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:41,640
So is there anything underpinning the token itself or is it just tokenomics as I've seen

254
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,640
on the discord?

255
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,960
Uh, so we have the vault, right?

256
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,440
The vault of assets and the assets are within the control of the community, but it's not

257
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:58,480
a, you know, it's not, we've never painted it as, um, fractionalization of the vault

258
00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,480
itself.

259
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:06,160
Although essentially now that we've gone to, um, one whale equals one vote in effect, it's,

260
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,360
it's more closer to that than it has been in the past, but the token represented a social

261
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:14,160
currency, which at the time was relatively novel.

262
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,720
There had been a few before us, but we were one of the first to really take a basket of

263
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:23,200
assets and the power of a community and an influential founder and say, Hey, this token

264
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,600
represents everything we are doing.

265
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,320
That coincided with kind of everybody learning about NFTs.

266
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,160
And so the valuation is, has fluctuated significantly.

267
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,780
I think at launch it was pennies, right?

268
00:17:34,780 --> 00:17:36,980
At peak, I think it was $50.

269
00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:38,160
It's gone down.

270
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,920
It's come back up to 20, $30.

271
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,040
I think now it's back into the sense, given what has happened in the market over the past,

272
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,040
right?

273
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,960
Um, several months, but that being said, you know, if you extrapolate that token value

274
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,960
versus the circulation and then juxtapose it with the vault assets, you can see that

275
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,400
certainly there are levers there that will make sure that this continues to be, um, something

276
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,100
that we can use to reward the community, to entice the community, to participate.

277
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,920
Because at the end of the day, it's a social currency and that's what we value it for.

278
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:18,420
Rewarding people, uh, using it within our ecosystem and, uh, really helping empower

279
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:22,240
those different things that, that we find important for web three.

280
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:29,080
But, uh, that being said, you know, we understand the other aspects of the market and, and there

281
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,080
are mechanisms in place within what we do here at whale.

282
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,240
Like there's, uh, of those assets, you know, it's, it's long been recorded that, you know,

283
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,360
when we take them to market, um, part of the proceeds from that sale would go into buying

284
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,360
back the token.

285
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,360
So then we would have more supply that they can, again, reward the community and, you

286
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,960
know, the tokenomics will respond in kind, but that's not really our, our core focus

287
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,960
here, right?

288
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:54,960
That's not what we do.

289
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,920
We have a much broader vision, uh, and it's a long-term vision.

290
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:05,200
So you know, people that, that are, that are looking from a speculative perspective oftentimes

291
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:11,720
have to take a step back and understand what we do and what the mechanisms are to understand

292
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,260
what could trigger what and where we are.

293
00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:19,880
But at the core of what we do, uh, it's not make number go up, although that is part of

294
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,120
the equation, certainly for us as a project.

295
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:27,120
Um, but it's much more important that we focus on from a culture perspective, what we want

296
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:33,440
to do with the art and be stewards of, of the history that really we helped paint here.

297
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:34,440
Gotcha.

298
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,240
That makes sense.

299
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,720
And so the current leadership, when I was looking up on the website, it looks like the

300
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:49,520
current leadership is whale shark, Zorro, decryptolorian, and then yourself.

301
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,700
That's correct.

302
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:51,700
That's correct.

303
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:52,700
Okay.

304
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:59,160
So just going back in time, just myself having watched some of the whale, um, the whale town

305
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,160
halls, that wasn't always the case.

306
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,800
Then it seems like it was whale shark for a while until he decentralized the leadership.

307
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,840
How does that work?

308
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,160
Yeah.

309
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,960
And uh, it really, so when we talk about this, we're talking about over a five year period,

310
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:17,960
right?

311
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,280
So this has gone through several iterations.

312
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,480
At first he was the founder and of course he had a team to support his project and what

313
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,880
he would, he would do.

314
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:33,800
And then, you know, help disseminate kind of his objectives and incorporate a lot of

315
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:40,060
the good ideas from the community into people he put into some, um, various leadership positions.

316
00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:45,140
You know, we had kind of a very streamlined corporate structure at one point with silos.

317
00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:47,820
At one point we were at 30 people on the team, right?

318
00:20:47,820 --> 00:20:51,520
Because things were just moving so fast in the NFT space.

319
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,080
And then it continued to evolve.

320
00:20:53,080 --> 00:21:00,060
I think one of the big transitions was to heads of respective departments.

321
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:03,920
So there was a person that was in charge of just operations and that was their focus,

322
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:10,680
a person in charge of art, a person in charge of community, et cetera.

323
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:17,920
And then through time and I think through kind of seeing, you know, people's colors

324
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,240
through, we went through a bear market, like a really rough bear market.

325
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,800
And I think participation in any project vacillating can go up and down, but we went through the

326
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,760
dead of the bear and the people that were still contributing because it was a passion

327
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,600
for them and what they believed in wanted to do.

328
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,120
They weren't dissuaded by the swing in a token or market, you know, uh, sentiment, uh, that

329
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:40,800
were still there.

330
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,000
He wanted to recognize and say, Hey, these people we want to empower as well.

331
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000
Right.

332
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,400
And so, um, now we have kind of a more decentralized structure where he's not really calling the

333
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,400
shots.

334
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,480
He's just a person within our leadership group and the other leaders have respective things

335
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:04,920
that they focus on, but really, you know, if Zorro, if you're familiar, anyone on our

336
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,000
discord knows Zorro, he's like the AI wizard infrastructure master, he's got all kinds

337
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,200
of stuff going with, with, with regards to the discord with our socials or whatever.

338
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,520
He's not really the art.

339
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,320
He's not really the gaming guy, but if there's something that we really think is important,

340
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,520
we're all going to have a voice in that decision.

341
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,520
Right.

342
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,400
And so it's more of a decentralized leadership structure now.

343
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,080
Um, and some of the people that have been there since the very beginning, along with

344
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,960
whale shark and, and, uh, and, um, you know, shown what they could do have been empowered

345
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:36,960
in different ways.

346
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,520
You know, there's a number of us that have been made it co-founders almost similar to

347
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,440
like a being made partner, I guess, at a law firm or something.

348
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:45,440
Right.

349
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,440
You guys have been here since the beginning, your major contributors, your key linchpin

350
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,720
in this, we're going to formally recognize you.

351
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,400
There's people that have been empowered and become different roles.

352
00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:00,040
Like a person went from a volunteer to a writer to, you know, a head of art, right.

353
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,600
And when we talk about Wes and what he's shown and what he's done and likewise with Mongoose,

354
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,720
he had a similar path.

355
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,160
So people have been empowered and put in position to take the reins on different initiatives

356
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,120
and really focus on their core competencies and their strengths.

357
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,760
But basically do what you enjoy and do dope shit.

358
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,760
And I think at the end of the day, it's going to manifest into what you see.

359
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:20,760
Right.

360
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,080
And when you see the interview that Mongoose does is super passionate, everyone, everyone

361
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,080
loves it.

362
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,920
And, uh, that's a testament to his passion that he's always brought, not just the recognition

363
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,920
that he has.

364
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:30,920
Yeah.

365
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,400
I remember back when I first, first started looking into, to whale and happened across

366
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,240
natively digital and Mongoose, I don't know if you remember you and Wes allowed me up

367
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,600
to the stage and I just happened to be talking about sandbox at the time.

368
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,040
And I didn't understand at the time that you all were like very, very focused on the art

369
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,040
version.

370
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,080
And when I brought in the sandbox thing, it was kind of a, uh, a divergence from your

371
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,080
normal agenda.

372
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,640
And I thought that was very gracious of you.

373
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,920
Once I realized, Oh, I just kind of, cause I'm super passionate about like DOWs.

374
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,920
Yeah.

375
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,400
Well, no, that's the, that's the thing is that, um, you know, we're, we're all multifaceted

376
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,400
people, right?

377
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:16,560
And we not only have our digital personas, the avatars, uh, the monikers, we go by what

378
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:22,520
we, uh, chooses our PFP or what we choose to even like show in our wallets on open sea,

379
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,520
right?

380
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,520
And so that's the divided aspect, um, there is some part of crypto Twitter that is just

381
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,000
a LARP, right?

382
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:35,760
At the end of the day, um, it is not even a full realization of who we are across social

383
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:36,760
media.

384
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,960
It just tends to be very tailored towards crypto.

385
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,620
So, um, yeah, I remember that episode very well.

386
00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:48,680
And you had a great passion about DOWs, uh, both Wes and I, and I'm sure, I'm sure nightmare

387
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,600
two, you know, have been involved in numerous DOWs throughout our time in crypto.

388
00:24:54,600 --> 00:25:00,600
And, um, you know, whale is just another one whale for me, a whale DOW specifically is

389
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:07,640
one that I really uphold as one that's been launched in a great way.

390
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,400
Um, it didn't just kind of spring out of, out of nothing.

391
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,440
There was great intent and purpose behind it and great structure and thought.

392
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,080
And you know, I think I've expressed this to you, Lancer, and in general, you know,

393
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,040
I'm not somebody who believes in just kind of spinning something up for the sake of it.

394
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:32,440
I really do think that there should be, um, you know, some, some intent and really understanding

395
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,520
of what you're doing, some strategy.

396
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:41,440
And that for me, decentralized autonomous organization is almost a little bit of a misnomer.

397
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,360
I think distribution is probably a better way to go about it and understanding how we

398
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:52,360
distribute that power and still make sure that things run properly and run as they should

399
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:53,760
and scale up.

400
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:59,720
Uh, so I think that conversation was great because we kind of talked about this, um,

401
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,760
general notion that sometimes DOWs just, um, they're, they're too autonomous from the beginning

402
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,040
and there's no real guidance to them.

403
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,920
And they very easily fall apart, you know, quite often there needs to be kind of a, a

404
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,480
structure that's kind of driving it.

405
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,800
In this case, you know, the whale leadership.

406
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:23,840
Um, I think it was very important for, for whale shark to, you know, from, from my perspective,

407
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,240
from when I very first started working at whale or even just showing up in the discord,

408
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,860
I did not see whale shark as the sole central figure.

409
00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:36,780
He might've been kind of that impetus for me joining, listening to him in nightmare

410
00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:43,280
talk on that clubhouse talk, but it was everybody else contributing to the conversation.

411
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:49,640
It was my ability to contribute to that conversation that got me to stick around and being more,

412
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,640
more involved.

413
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,640
Right.

414
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,200
So I do think that that's really important.

415
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,440
And um, you know, I would hope that every DOW can kind of go through that realization

416
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:07,120
that it, that it does need some kind of centralized structure for operation that enables the whole

417
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,040
larger organization to be able to talk and share their ideas and be involved.

418
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,040
Yeah.

419
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,040
Yeah.

420
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,040
I really enjoyed that conversation.

421
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,000
I have a, in addition to being a musician and a writer, I have a business background.

422
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,340
I've owned my own business for quite some time.

423
00:27:22,340 --> 00:27:26,960
So as soon as Dallas came together and I see G in the chat, big shout out to G. He also

424
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,720
mentioned anyone who used the word tapestry allegorically gets a nod from him.

425
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,320
He's quite often in his spaces.

426
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:40,260
That's a Mocha verse hall on Mondays, by the way, later on tonight.

427
00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:42,200
So check it out if you're free.

428
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:51,160
But anyways, yeah, when, when the DOW started happening last, last May, I was my first introduction

429
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,720
to a DOW and then it just all clicked into place for me.

430
00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:01,840
All the whole decentralized, decentralized leadership and how we vote and just, I've

431
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,680
been looking for something like that for quite some time.

432
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,160
And then you all announced it's the DOW, the whale DOW back in September.

433
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,040
And then I think it was that same day that I pushed out a proposal because in my professional

434
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,640
life I, I, I negotiate contracts, I write proposals.

435
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,240
And so turning out, you know, a one page proposal was just right up my alley.

436
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:30,120
And my disclosure to the whole group is I was the author of wavy one proposal that passed.

437
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:33,360
So just let that set that out there for everybody.

438
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:40,240
And yeah, I've been very interested in trying to connect the whale community to the sandbox

439
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,800
community because there is clearly a connection.

440
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,640
But it was also obvious that once you spend some time with the whale community, that the

441
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,480
interests weren't the same, you know, the way the sandbox and what they're interested

442
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:57,600
in is, is different than what the whale communities spends most of their time in at the very least.

443
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,640
And so that's where I wanted to talk about next was back in September, well, Dow announced

444
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,320
a whale shark announced that the multi-sig had occurred.

445
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:15,080
The whale Dow would be stood up and then like that day or the next day I submitted the proposal.

446
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,840
Was that a, was that a tough thing, like a tough sell or was that just, you understood

447
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,080
that's the way it needed to go?

448
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,720
What two, two quick things, Lanser.

449
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,720
Number one, when you mentioned that you, you popped in and were like, Hey, natively digital,

450
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,920
this isn't the space for a, for a Dow discussion.

451
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,440
It's not, that's not the space.

452
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,240
In fact, that's the whole concept of natively digital is like anything going on at web three.

453
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,200
We want to talk about it, but from a cultural perspective, right?

454
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,960
There's a lot of spaces that are wag me numb, you know, we're going to make so much money

455
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,680
or this, and that's not what it is.

456
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:52,480
It's like all the cultural nuance and so oftentimes that's the crypto market in a macro.

457
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,400
It could be art specific.

458
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,720
It could be a PFP crazy thing going on, whatever.

459
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:58,880
So you are more than welcome.

460
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,040
We will continue to welcome.

461
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,640
It's just, you are, as you said, from your business background, you're like hyper focused

462
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:10,160
more so in the weeds than we probably, probably are, but we love that, that it really enriches

463
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,160
it.

464
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,420
That's the thing, like come to our community and bring that.

465
00:30:13,420 --> 00:30:18,800
That's what we love is that breadth of different interests, right?

466
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,320
So love that you came in and love that you love that you did that.

467
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,440
So please don't ever feel like you can't do that.

468
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,800
The other thing I wanted to mention is I understand.

469
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:27,800
I understand.

470
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:28,800
I could be a little intense about it sometimes.

471
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,800
I just, I love it.

472
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,160
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's so much fun.

473
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Yeah, we can see, we could see you, right?

474
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Believe me, I have things like geek on hard too as well.

475
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,960
And I get made fun of, made fun of it, made fun for it.

476
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:42,960
Plenty in the discord.

477
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:49,000
The other thing is I saw a reference to like the whale Dow standing up in September, 2024.

478
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,160
And I'm sure you, you know this too, but just to clarify for anyone that could be listening

479
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,480
in we've existed as a Dow for these five years.

480
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,720
It just wasn't in the current incarnation.

481
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,780
And initially it was primarily run manually through our discord.

482
00:31:05,780 --> 00:31:11,400
We had a, a number of processes that people would use to propose votes and how it would

483
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,160
have to pass the house and then the Senate and people had different roles that they staked

484
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,280
in order to be able to be a vote, you know, to have their vote in the Senate, et cetera.

485
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:30,360
And yeah, and it was a V2 then it was, it was always said that when, when whale shark

486
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,720
initially set it up, there was a lot of questions like this isn't totally autonomous.

487
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,720
This is not automated.

488
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,220
And he said, by design, by design, right?

489
00:31:39,220 --> 00:31:42,000
We have a $50 million basket of assets.

490
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,280
I want to be confident in the community that we're handing it to that it will be cared

491
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,520
for not only for monetarily purposes, but for legacy, for culture, for our mission.

492
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,520
Okay.

493
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,560
Number one, number two is the technology there to safeguard this without us having manual,

494
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,360
you know, inter intervention here at the time.

495
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:07,280
And I mean, look, look at what just happened, what just happened with a safe and genosis

496
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,140
and ledger and everything, right?

497
00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:13,640
That just happened now rewind five years ago and imagine where we're at.

498
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,640
Right?

499
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,600
So there's concerns from, from that perspective.

500
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:23,240
And also I think that, you know, we, as a group, I can't speak for everyone, but I can

501
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,060
say at least personally have always been an advocate of almost a hybrid governance type

502
00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:34,440
of structure where you have some leadership kind of, at least giving you some, you know,

503
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,840
a head start or some direction on, Hey, this is what we're trying to achieve.

504
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,840
These are the goals.

505
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,840
Let's try to stay in line because we've seen through our five years here, lots of dows

506
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:49,240
that have, you know, been strong-armed by people that came in, were able to take positions

507
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,760
and liquidate all the assets.

508
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:51,760
Governance attacks.

509
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:52,760
Yeah.

510
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,760
Right.

511
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,840
To the detriment, to people that would even, from a, you know, from a sentiment perspective,

512
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,920
come in and try to, try to, you know, really drive some different things.

513
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,600
So we just wanted to give this the care that we believed was necessary.

514
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:16,040
And I think that in September of 2024, through the evolution of the team and people really,

515
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,480
you know, proving kind of their metal as far as their loyalties and what they're about,

516
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,720
are they here to just cash out or would they try to snag assets or from between the team,

517
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,200
between the technology to be able to go to multi-sig and how we would leverage it.

518
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,920
And also to be frank, look at the macro sentiment from a regulatory perspective, right?

519
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,760
It's much different now than if you rewind five years ago.

520
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,400
So all of those things coincided with, hey, this is opportune for us to make this move

521
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,200
and do this and do what the promise was, which was slowly over time, hand more and more of

522
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,240
this over to the community with this long-term vision, right?

523
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,240
With this long-term vision, we weren't trying to be, let's build something for five years

524
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,240
from now.

525
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,240
Let's build something.

526
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,720
We want to be evergreen.

527
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,720
We want to be something that is still here representing some of these ideals and what

528
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,520
we want to carry forward for crypto art, for amazing people, like a lot of money who, you

529
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,200
know, today's the anniversary of his passing.

530
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,960
It was such a big part of our history.

531
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,200
All of these things are super important to us.

532
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,960
So we try to safeguard all of those carefully.

533
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,040
And that's part of why our governance structure was what it was and how it evolved to where

534
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,040
it is now.

535
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,040
Got it.

536
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,120
That makes sense.

537
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:35,120
And so your connection to Sandbox, you all have at last count 1,699 that just rounded

538
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:43,720
up to 1,700 lands, 39 estates, a big presence at 7 million voting power now, as far as voting

539
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:45,720
power calculations go.

540
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:52,520
How did that connection happen?

541
00:34:52,520 --> 00:35:00,120
Nailshark was an enthusiast in 2018, 2019, 2020 and got involved very early with the

542
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,720
Sandbox, you know, pre-release, I believe, and said, this is something that I believe

543
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,960
in and it wasn't unique to Sandbox.

544
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,360
He also felt the same way about Cryptovoxels.

545
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,960
We own about 200 parcels of land in Cryptovoxels.

546
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:20,720
I'm not sure if you're familiar with Cryptovoxels, but another metaverse that at the time was

547
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,800
really the home of crypto artists really trying to really hone their craft and be able to

548
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,360
put their artworks on the metaverse.

549
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:34,040
And it was a belief in the future of a lot of these things, not unique to just the metaverse.

550
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560
But at the time, you know, we are heavy in NBA Top Shot.

551
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,360
We have probably the number one collection in NBA Top Shot.

552
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,020
So sports collectibles made sense to this guy, right?

553
00:35:44,020 --> 00:35:49,040
Crypto art made sense to this guy, specific kinds of art, but crypto art, right?

554
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:54,560
The metaverse just made sense from a gamification standpoint, made sense.

555
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,040
Web3 gaming made sense.

556
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,120
And so we took positions in these projects that we believed were the future and were

557
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:07,200
important and not just because we thought they had runway to grow and appreciate in

558
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,200
value, which was certainly part of the decision.

559
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,820
I mean, Wailshark is an incredible businessman.

560
00:36:12,820 --> 00:36:17,980
He started and sold off all kinds of companies and put himself in position where he could

561
00:36:17,980 --> 00:36:24,520
give away $150 million in assets and it doesn't, it's not his anymore, right?

562
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,040
That's just a passion project for him.

563
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,240
But it was also because of our belief and conviction that the metaverse in Web3 and

564
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:38,500
tokenization is so important for creatives, for decentralization, for enabling people

565
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:46,940
to circumvent global gatekeeping for different things, to empower people to have a presence

566
00:36:46,940 --> 00:36:48,280
where they may not otherwise.

567
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,800
All these things were important beyond just the financial opportunity.

568
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:57,040
So took a big position in it and held, and held.

569
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:06,000
We got disgusting offers for our estates through the bull market, like blow your mind offers.

570
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,560
And at the time we said, look, we're not in a position where we need liquidity.

571
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,740
And if we're going to do something with this, it's to be meaningful.

572
00:37:14,740 --> 00:37:18,820
We're going to set a record or we're going to be taking that and doing something important

573
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:19,820
with it.

574
00:37:19,820 --> 00:37:20,820
So we'll pass.

575
00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:21,820
Right?

576
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:26,160
Like I don't even want to say the number because I don't want anyone to bug out.

577
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,000
But believe me, we've been here with conviction and diamond handed for a long time because

578
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,400
what's important to us is beyond just the monetary aspect.

579
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:41,280
Yeah, I would say there's this shared, a shared future, you know, in the metaverse that I

580
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:48,140
think aligns largely with what Whale is trying to achieve, probably what Sandbox is trying

581
00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:49,140
to achieve as well.

582
00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:54,980
I think that, you know, we see these as interactive community driven assets.

583
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:57,160
It's not just virtual real estate.

584
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,580
You know, I think one of the things that always attracted me to Whale's holdings of it and

585
00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:10,000
its offerings of it was this ability to also, you know, talk to creators, artists, who,

586
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:17,280
you know, builders who are interested in these kind of virtual architecture build outs and,

587
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:23,600
you know, what can be done to lend those parcels out to enable these creators to have that

588
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,920
opportunity that maybe they didn't already have.

589
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,080
Maybe they couldn't afford it.

590
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,600
Maybe they just didn't have access to it.

591
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,360
But now Whale is in a position to offer it.

592
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,800
And you know, I think that, you know, this is user generated.

593
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,640
This is a blockchain powered thing.

594
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:48,040
It's something that can drive engagement through immersive experiences.

595
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,800
You know, again, this community model is really central to Whale.

596
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,960
And with my experience with Sandbox, at least, that's also what I take away from it.

597
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:06,460
You know, I've been involved in numerous Sandbox experiences, whether it's through Whale or

598
00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:13,160
through Dizzy Dragons, through Paris Hilton, McDonald's, you know, Snoop Dogg, you know,

599
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:18,640
there's so many interesting things happening with Sandbox.

600
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:24,240
And I think it's really about that community driving it and that overlap with Whale.

601
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:30,960
You know, it's just, to me, it seems like a very strong synergy.

602
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,600
And you know, going back to you, Lancer, I thought that was where your initial proposal

603
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,440
just really kind of resonated so strongly with so many of us.

604
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:49,880
It looked at what Whale presented as an organization and also what we had in our assets.

605
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,320
And I feel like you put together something very meaningful.

606
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,320
Can I?

607
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:54,320
Go ahead.

608
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,480
Go right ahead, Knight.

609
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:04,400
I just wanted to color that one with one more thing that I think that was pretty interesting

610
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,360
when it comes to the origins of Whale.

611
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,240
We had all of these land assets early.

612
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:14,600
So the Sandbox, the Cryptovoxel, we were looking on how we could leverage this to empower our

613
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:15,600
community.

614
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,360
And so one of the things we did is said, hey, if you are a member here of Whale, you just

615
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,920
ask for it and you can have a plot of land and Cryptovoxels in Origin City.

616
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,800
And I think we were trying to do it with Sandbox as well, but it just didn't have the mechanism

617
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,800
at the time.

618
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,000
Whereas in Cryptovoxels, you can assign someone as a collaborator and it didn't work the same

619
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,000
in Sandbox.

620
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,360
But nonetheless, we did that.

621
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,880
And we had a specific initiative where Whale Shark basically went to the artist community

622
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:47,400
and said, hey, I want anyone that wants us to take a plot of land and I want you to build

623
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,440
whatever you would like on it.

624
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,820
And I remember the conversation happening in the Discord like, hey, what if we wanted

625
00:40:52,820 --> 00:40:54,400
to sell these assets or whatever?

626
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,720
And he said, look, we have more than enough that if we ever wanted to go to market, we'd

627
00:40:58,720 --> 00:40:59,920
be fine.

628
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:05,360
But the beautification and the using and the understanding of that, the value proposition

629
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:11,840
of the metaverse, making that a beautiful, vibrant place is more important than the monetization

630
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,960
because that will uplift the metaverse as a whole.

631
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,300
It shows people why it's powerful, why it's empowering.

632
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:21,360
And I think it benefits the projects as well as what we're holding.

633
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,400
So I thought that was awesome when I had seen that back in the day.

634
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:32,080
And there are some incredible, incredible historic monuments, you could say, in CryptoVoxels

635
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,320
of these artists in 2020.

636
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:41,760
People that are legendary, XCOPY, Coldy, Hackitao, a lot of money that built super dope things.

637
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,120
Even Rando's that are well-known artists just experimenting and what they left in their

638
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,120
plot.

639
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,700
It's like walking through a time machine at that moment in history.

640
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:56,760
But the rationale that, hey, we need to use these and let people do it because the future

641
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,440
of the metaverse and what this represents is so important.

642
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,360
I thought that was a beautiful thing.

643
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,560
And I think that it talks to why the metaverse is important to us as a project.

644
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,640
Yeah.

645
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,160
And I appreciate your kind words, Mongoose.

646
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,440
That to me was like a see a need, feel a need.

647
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:23,280
And earlier when you all talked about your, the great care you all took toward your assets

648
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,740
and wanting to maintain provenance, which I had no idea what that word even meant until

649
00:42:28,740 --> 00:42:36,980
I interviewed another SIP author, Arthmoret, who is a curator in France.

650
00:42:36,980 --> 00:42:40,640
And he's the first one that told me the word provenance.

651
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,800
And I think I linked it in my response back to you, Mongoose, where I'm like, provenance.

652
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,200
And I had him explain to me on stream what that was.

653
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:56,000
And just, and so to me, it was a clear thing of I really, really wanted, if you all were

654
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,720
okay with it, to get you involved in the voting and the participation of it.

655
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:07,040
And it just seemed like a see a need, feel a need of people who are very, you all take

656
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,000
great care when it comes to like, who was it?

657
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,760
You just interviewed him the other day, Gladfly, right?

658
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,040
Sir Gladfly of the Hoodlums collection for Ordinals.

659
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:25,080
Like I didn't even know what an ordinal really was until I listened to you and him and Mongoose,

660
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,400
you all discuss the particulars of that.

661
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,600
It's just, it's a great learning experience and a community full of people who are there

662
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,240
to help each other, to appreciate art together.

663
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:41,160
And I wasn't much of an art enthusiast before, let's just call it that.

664
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,680
I'm not a huge art enthusiast, but it's grown on me a little bit.

665
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:50,000
The more I learn about all these particulars that I didn't know about before.

666
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,200
And a lot of it's through the stuff that you all go over week to week.

667
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,680
Yeah.

668
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,520
A lot of people found their way into Web3 for various reasons and they start exploring

669
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,520
and next thing you know, they're in a lot of segments.

670
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,920
I'll say our gaming wing on whale is probably the busiest right now, right?

671
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,000
A lot of people playing a lot of cool Web3 games.

672
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,800
And I know that's near and dear to your heart as well, Lancer.

673
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,960
So like, we touch a lot of things, but the crossover is definitely there and it's part

674
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,440
of what makes this space super dope and very cool.

675
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,960
I will say relative to participation in the sandbox, that's always been something that

676
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:36,080
as soon as the DAO, the sandbox DAO was widely announced, we talked about internally immediately.

677
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,320
We need to participate in it and we want to, A, because we represent such a huge voting

678
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:46,000
block and B, because stewardship of the metaverse is important to us.

679
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,480
It always has been part of our ethos as a project.

680
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,920
So we intended always to do it.

681
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,400
Initially though, as it was set up, there was challenges for us, right?

682
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:03,160
Especially as good of characters that we all have been judged, Whale Shark wasn't about

683
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,280
to say, Hey, yeah, here's the seed phrase to the whale vault.

684
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,640
Go take it for a spin and cast some votes.

685
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,640
It wasn't going to happen.

686
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:17,040
And we wanted to do our due diligence on how to be the most secure and how we participate

687
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,040
in all of these things.

688
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:25,040
So being able to move things to the multi-sig and have a more secure process and how we

689
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:32,360
would go about voting and how that would not put the assets at risk was serendipitous timing

690
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,800
so that we could get involved relatively quickly after the sandbox had gone live.

691
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,180
Although I do believe initially, because I was poking around on the discord and reading

692
00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:46,720
a lot of things as landowners, our voting power was not really to the breadth that it

693
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:47,840
is now initially, right?

694
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:53,200
I think initially it was more of the token staking and other things, but now we're in

695
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,280
a good position to be able to do so.

696
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,280
Yeah.

697
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:02,560
And let's roll right into the current whale dowel and its current format.

698
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,200
As you pointed out, it's at least version two, if not version three or four by now,

699
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:12,880
but it's current iteration, the white paper that I read back in October, how the whale

700
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,440
members is an omniversal private members club that unites, excites and engages its members.

701
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,360
This is a full on white paper.

702
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,920
Was this developed?

703
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:28,760
Was this always in existence or did this come together recently?

704
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,440
There's been multiple iterations of the white paper over the years.

705
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,440
This is the latest incarnation.

706
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,440
My bad.

707
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,440
Four and five.

708
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,440
Excuse me.

709
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,440
Yeah.

710
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,440
Who?

711
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,440
Go ahead.

712
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,760
No, you go ahead.

713
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:54,840
I was, the first thing I wanted to figure out was now that you all are with Wavy One,

714
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:02,400
it is, it requests whale members participation in each sandbox proposal.

715
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:07,400
And with that comes, we've seen you vote twice now.

716
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,800
One on my proposal and the one after that.

717
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,960
And I think the biggest question right now is to start off, what is important to the

718
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,960
whale fam, whale fam community as it pertains to voting?

719
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,360
I'll let you hop in Mongoose.

720
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:35,600
I think what you've seen already, Lancer and anybody who joins in the discord grabs a role

721
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,800
because it is a role based discord, right?

722
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,480
In that membership club that you mentioned.

723
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,840
We don't require much for membership.

724
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,200
You can be a visitor to the discord.

725
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:48,200
You can hold one whale.

726
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,880
You can grab a member role just with one whale token in your possession.

727
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,480
And it unlocks an incredible opportunity.

728
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:06,120
For the sandbox DAO participation, we want to be able to see what the SIP is that's being

729
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,240
discussed.

730
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:13,560
We have someone, in this case, you Lancer is kind of holding a role that kind of helps

731
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:19,120
us interpret what that's about, what the context is for the DAO.

732
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,840
And then we want to be able to discuss it.

733
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,600
And we've got numerous channels to discuss this in.

734
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:32,760
And I would say the aggregation of that discussion is then what goes before the whale council.

735
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:40,160
And we do have a council of eight people right now.

736
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,160
Right Nymer?

737
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,160
Correct.

738
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:47,200
Yeah, eight people that could possibly expand in the future.

739
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,120
But these are folks who have been with whale for a very long time, do have a very clear

740
00:48:52,120 --> 00:49:00,200
understanding of the mission, the vision, the ethos behind it, and can represent the

741
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:01,920
community.

742
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,920
We do have also an ability for the community to weigh in through an emoji system to be

743
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,960
able to kind of read that SIP, understand it, and voice their opinion.

744
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:18,600
But a lot of people discuss these things and never bother to click on the emoji.

745
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:19,920
It's a discord, right?

746
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,520
People can click on emojis all the time.

747
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:29,200
So we do want to make sure that we have that discussion around it that then helps inform

748
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,200
the council.

749
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:36,120
Because the council also are folks who may not be present for that discussion.

750
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,840
We need to be able to have something that can help inform.

751
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,960
There's these checks and balances, I think, right?

752
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,760
We have these different bodies that exist within the DAO.

753
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:52,040
And I think that helps avoid centralized governance.

754
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,560
It helps distribute that power in many ways.

755
00:49:54,560 --> 00:50:01,520
It also gives plenty of opportunity for the community to be able to voice their opinions.

756
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:07,100
And likewise, for the council to be able to function within the sandbox DAO and still

757
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:09,880
be able to vote and represent it.

758
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:17,520
And I think it kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier, too, the idea of provenance.

759
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,360
The blockchain, I've always thought, is a beautiful system because it's an immutable

760
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,560
ledger.

761
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:28,600
My initial experience with it was just looking at it from a financial point of view, right?

762
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:34,040
To be able to understand that when something goes somewhere, it gets there accurately.

763
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,520
And you know who sent it, who received it, right?

764
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:43,280
But when we look at the provenance, whether you're talking about that transaction or a

765
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:49,880
token of art, token of anything, or in this case, a decision made on behalf of a DAO,

766
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:55,000
for a DAO, you know, that decision, and this is something we talk about on Natively Digital

767
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,060
all the time, right?

768
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:00,120
Every week, I think it probably comes up.

769
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:07,200
Your choices that you make on the blockchain with your wallets, those are what are becoming

770
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,680
the foundation of your true digital identity.

771
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,960
And this is a kind of a first point in human history where our digital identity is starting

772
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,760
to be crafted in this way that, you know, it's there.

773
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:27,360
What you're doing with your wallet, the choices that you make, for better or worse, are going

774
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,720
to follow you around, but also represents you, right?

775
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:37,640
Your choices now do actually start to form that identity and color who you are or what

776
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,800
organization you are, what your values are, et cetera.

777
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:46,580
So it's not a process that is taken lightly.

778
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:49,960
You see this is version five of the of the white paper.

779
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,880
I imagine there's going to be another version or more.

780
00:51:53,880 --> 00:52:00,400
And likewise, I do expect the whale DAO to continue to evolve with the space.

781
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,780
The technology is going to continue to evolve.

782
00:52:02,780 --> 00:52:06,120
The matters that are important to us all are going to continue to evolve.

783
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:13,600
And that flexibility, I think, also is a testament to what Neimer alluded to, right?

784
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:19,920
Whale sharks lack the desire just to create something that just, you know, hit the ground

785
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,120
running and never changed.

786
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,560
I think there has to be an understanding of easing into it and understanding what's there.

787
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:27,560
Yeah.

788
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:28,560
I'll just put it in here.

789
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:33,160
I would love to help contribute to that in any way I can in the future if there is a

790
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:34,640
version six.

791
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:40,120
We certainly know that you are extremely talented and would be a great resource there.

792
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:47,120
Just a dovetail on what Mongoose had said, you know, from a, I think part of your question

793
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:52,680
was what's important to us as the whale community with regards to voting in the sandbox.

794
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:57,840
And I think that some of those core principles that we've touched on, which is responsible

795
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:06,000
stewardship of the metaverse of history, of crypto art legacy, of our holdings, right?

796
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,640
For our community and for our token holders.

797
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,080
But more so being responsible level headed good citizens of this space.

798
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,660
I think that from a cultural perspective, we put that above all else and we're blessed

799
00:53:19,660 --> 00:53:21,600
to be in a position to do that, right?

800
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:28,640
Like we don't need to drive a monetary return on the sandbox to exist as an organization.

801
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,480
We don't need to drive, you know, make number go up to try to bring it to market.

802
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,400
We don't need to do anything like that.

803
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:40,320
So really it's being, it's taking the governance responsibility that we have seriously.

804
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:45,200
And I will tell you that there were some votes where there were internal discussions and

805
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,660
basically, you know, this would be better for our interest, but this is what the responsible

806
00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:55,320
governance and being representation, you know, and the representative of our project, what

807
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,760
that means is.

808
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,840
And we made that decision because I think that, you know, trust in us as an organization

809
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:08,280
and, you know, our breadth, we touch a lot more than just the sandbox, right?

810
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:16,360
And so being good actors in this space and being a responsible participant and also,

811
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,360
you know, seeing the long-term vision.

812
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,200
I mean, these are all things that are core and important to us.

813
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:26,440
And I will caveat that and say that prior to the proposal that came through that requested

814
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:31,960
us to participate in every vote, I was more of the thought process at the time when we

815
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:38,160
were coming together that, Hey, if things are pertinent to us and important to us, and

816
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,160
we have an opinion that would be of value here, then we should participate.

817
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,560
And maybe if it's something we feel meaningful to move forward and we just help make core

818
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:52,760
and we participate, but we should not, I was not of the thought process that we should participate

819
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,880
in every vote because what if it doesn't pertain to us?

820
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,640
There's instances where it doesn't really pertain to us.

821
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,640
I don't think we feel strongly one way or the other.

822
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,480
And if we vote, we make quorum happen.

823
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,360
And then that vote is going to go through on whether that's a contentious vote with

824
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,000
the community or not and whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing.

825
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:19,680
I'm not sure, but I thought that that puts a different lever that we're triggering there.

826
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,840
We're making things go to a decision either way.

827
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:29,360
That sometimes we didn't necessarily advocate for that.

828
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,560
We don't feel strongly that it should or shouldn't, but if we vote abstain, then it's going to

829
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,960
pass to should or should not.

830
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,900
We don't want to be the responsible vote to do that, but the vote passed.

831
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:40,080
So now we are in that position to have to do that.

832
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,480
And I will tell you that I have long been in the Discord, which is a lot of different

833
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,360
conversation than the forums on the sandbox.

834
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,080
But I am in the weeds there as well.

835
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,640
I'm creeping on everybody.

836
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,880
I'm checking the conversations.

837
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,960
I'm getting the email updates, which helps me.

838
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:57,960
Thank you.

839
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,400
But I'm also in there checking and checking profiles and who's commenting on what and

840
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,360
really trying to understand the pulse of the community because that to me as the culture

841
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,960
guy here at Whale is very important.

842
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:14,240
If the community within the sandbox feels like, Hey, we really, we really believe that

843
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:20,120
this funding should be more focused on core gameplay and user acquisition and all of these

844
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,400
things instead of other things.

845
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,680
I'm going to take that into consideration and how I relate and how I position myself

846
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,320
in these internal conversations we have within the council.

847
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,200
I pride myself on being in the weeds.

848
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,980
So I don't want anybody to think, Hey, there's some organization over there.

849
00:56:33,980 --> 00:56:35,360
They don't know what's going on here.

850
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:36,360
They're not.

851
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:37,360
They don't have the pulse of things.

852
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,960
I randomly play experiences all the time just to know what's going on.

853
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:46,920
If I can share a frustration and what's happening, if, you know, I tool around a magic of voxel,

854
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:51,040
like I do a lot, like I touch a lot and I just don't want people to think this is some

855
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:56,160
ivory tower out of touch with what's going on down here at the ground level because I'm

856
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,160
in the ground level.

857
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,840
I'm just in the bushes watching that.

858
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,640
I got to throw in there real quick.

859
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:07,320
I don't know if you knew, but, but a nightmare and I used to cohost with the voxel architect,

860
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,280
a very dear friend of the whale community, noisy.

861
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:16,360
We used to host a wearable Wednesday's segment for a long time where we did live crafting

862
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,960
of a metaverse wearables.

863
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:19,960
Yes.

864
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,760
And now that, now that noisy is back from his hiatus, maybe we can convince him to do

865
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,400
a another event.

866
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,240
So we used to always have these thematic builds for whatever was happening.

867
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,000
Like we had one where we sacrifice for the summer solstice.

868
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,800
You could sacrifice NFTs and there was gamification of finding stuff.

869
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,880
So hopefully we get a new event going and we'll pull you into another metaverse to check

870
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,840
it out and get some perspective there.

871
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:43,840
Lancer.

872
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:44,840
I would love that.

873
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:45,840
I would absolutely love that.

874
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:46,840
Yeah.

875
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,360
I think, I think that was what the perspective was.

876
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,800
And for me, they all just put it out there.

877
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:53,800
So everyone knows.

878
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,280
I thought that when I first heard that how much land you all had, and then when I got

879
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,680
into the discord, I'm like, where are my sandbox people at?

880
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,160
And it was like crickets.

881
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:06,160
It was crickets.

882
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:10,720
And maybe I didn't delve deep enough to, because I didn't, it wasn't obvious to me that you

883
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,400
all were in the weeds.

884
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:18,720
And it wasn't until you responded back to my sip back in January when I asked, when

885
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:26,320
I, when I expressed my reaction to the vote and then you gave me that almost a mini dissertation

886
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,280
of like an academic paper of how you reached to the decision that you reached.

887
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,360
And once I read that, I'm like, okay, all right, this, this good faith, this is good

888
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:36,720
faith there.

889
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,640
They really did do their homework.

890
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:45,120
I didn't agree with the, I was upset and I didn't agree with the way you all voted.

891
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,080
However, I can argue that you all put thought behind it and you, and it was clear that you

892
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:56,200
cared and it's the same thing you did with sip 19 with the user generated proposal.

893
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:02,640
The UGC proposal, the, how you explained how the cost differential, the scope, clarity,

894
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,160
the sentiment, the future flexibility.

895
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,760
You had bullet points of here's the factors we considered and here's how we reached the

896
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:10,760
decision.

897
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:15,560
And I'm like, all right, all right, you, you are clearly paying attention, not from just

898
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:16,560
some ivory tower.

899
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,440
And that, that was very much appreciated.

900
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:20,440
I did.

901
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,440
Thank you again.

902
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:26,000
Thank you for, for taking the time to, to learn and participate.

903
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:32,000
Like you said, as, as a, as a good actor, as a responsible citizen, that means a lot

904
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,000
to me.

905
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:34,800
Thank you for recognizing that.

906
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,280
And there's, there's nothing personal, like even with the, with the latest sip that we

907
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:44,040
voted on and, and, and where that landed, you know, someone made the, made the point

908
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,120
because I, I try to be thorough and everything, right?

909
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:52,000
I try to use deductive reasoning and contingency plan and understand what the steps ahead are.

910
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:57,240
And I'm like, look, understand that there is going to be, there is optics here that,

911
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,440
Hey, someone within our Dow put a proposal and we voted against it.

912
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,400
Or someone came to our community had been there a long time ago and then just said,

913
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,280
Hey, I just rejoined and got a membership or whatever.

914
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,240
And then we're like, yeah, sorry, we already voted.

915
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,920
It was no, like there's, you know, there's optics there, but I think the, the bigger

916
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:19,040
picture should be, look, we are acting in good faith into what is in the best interest

917
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:26,320
of the project and of whale and, and, and we put, you know, the greater, the greater

918
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,880
mission above self and, and above all else.

919
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:31,960
And it's really not personal at all.

920
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,480
But just know we're trying, we are making informed decisions with perspective.

921
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:41,200
Clearly, you know, we, we, we have vested interests, not only in the assets, but in

922
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:42,200
the culture, right.

923
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:43,200
In the culture itself.

924
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,200
Yeah.

925
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,440
And then this one, one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on the show.

926
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:55,520
So while so persistent about it was because I wanted people and myself to see that it's

927
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:00,160
not just an ivory tower taking place here, that there are real people behind it.

928
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,320
They're, they're thoughtful, good citizens.

929
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,980
And yeah, I was wavy one proposal.

930
01:01:06,980 --> 01:01:10,680
It passed for the whale Dow.

931
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,540
And then my proposal went up right after that.

932
01:01:13,540 --> 01:01:15,420
That wasn't planned at all.

933
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:19,200
It took me like eight months to get my proposal passed and to vote.

934
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,720
It just so happened to coincide at the same time you all announced the Dow.

935
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:28,600
So and then, and then well, Dell well, council chose to vote.

936
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,560
No, gave me their thoughtful reason behind it.

937
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,960
And it hurt my feelings, but we're still here.

938
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:39,360
And clearly with us being here in the interview together, they're watering the bridge.

939
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:45,320
It did not, I didn't take it personally after I saw that there was thought taking place.

940
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,360
And it was level headed.

941
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,280
It was reasonable.

942
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:55,680
And that's when I'm like, all right, good, bad, ugly, whether I agreed or not, I understand

943
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,360
the position you're in is difficult.

944
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:05,560
And you have to view not just a someone who is part of your, your Dow as asking for your

945
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:14,280
yes vote, but also the good of the industry, the good of the community sandbox yourself.

946
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:22,640
And yeah, so that's me saying no hard feelings, I guess.

947
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,360
We have none on our side as well.

948
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:29,880
And I was, I was really glad to see like some cool ideas and that new proposal that came

949
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:31,760
about because of it afterwards.

950
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,440
So kind of that, right.

951
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,740
That collective to try to entice and reward creators.

952
01:02:36,740 --> 01:02:42,260
So you know, that's, that's part of what, you know, this Dow process enables, right?

953
01:02:42,260 --> 01:02:44,760
You go through different iterations and you'll get there.

954
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,520
And I'm glad we're having this conversation as well.

955
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,000
And I'm glad anyone tuning in that thought we were ivory tower.

956
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,160
I'm watching you guys.

957
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:52,160
All right.

958
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:53,160
I'm on there.

959
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:54,160
I'm seeing all these snarky comments.

960
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:59,680
So, you know, look out, someone, someone asked me once actually, why, you know, why are

961
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,440
you less participatory and more watching?

962
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:08,480
And I think that for me, at least leveraging 7 million votes, I don't want to go in there

963
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,520
and have, you know, I make a comment and people, you know, try to change their perspective

964
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,480
or the way that they interact on the post seems a little different.

965
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:21,640
Certainly if I had a question or something I wanted to, to, to tweak or get adjusted

966
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,400
for something to pass, then maybe I would participate that way.

967
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:30,720
But just for, you know, like showing my presence and then having that have a material effect

968
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:35,120
on the conversation, I think it's more valuable for me as the person that's probably most

969
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:40,120
entrenched in the conversations and what's going on over there to really have a, you

970
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:44,640
know, an unbiased view without influence on what's happening there.

971
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,320
Hey, this is what they're talking about without knowing we're in the room.

972
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,160
This is what, what's actually important to them.

973
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,800
And so, you know, I appreciate having that perspective, but I'm not opposed.

974
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,160
I'm sure there will be a scenario where I say, Hey, can you do this or that?

975
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,440
Or why do you have whatever and, you know, things may adjust accordingly.

976
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:02,440
Yeah.

977
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,520
And so it's the eight person well counseled.

978
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,000
They have the deciding vote for the whale vault.

979
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,000
That's correct.

980
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,000
So again, it's a hybrid structure.

981
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:17,240
Of course, the community sentiment is, and wishes is very important to us and taken into

982
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,240
consideration.

983
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:23,400
I will say that we've had multiple iterations of the Dow where there was robust conversation

984
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,320
in 50 people voting between the Senate and whatnot.

985
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:32,800
And you know, we're still working on this whole process of, for the sandbox, like something

986
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:38,720
was published and someone like the emoji thing that was contentious here on our discord.

987
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:42,680
I don't even, I didn't even understand the process that I'm on the team, right?

988
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:48,360
Like this was still something in flux, but I will say that there was, there was a point

989
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,440
made that, Hey, there were more positive emojis than negative emoji.

990
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,780
We're talking a handful of emojis here, like three, four or five.

991
01:04:54,780 --> 01:04:57,560
That's not indicative of our 4,000 members.

992
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:58,680
That's apathy, right?

993
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,880
That's people not really participating at that point.

994
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,640
I won't argue on that one.

995
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:04,640
Right.

996
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:05,640
And that could be a lot of things, right?

997
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,920
We see as the bull cycles come and go, as different things happen, people's interests

998
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,120
waxes and wanes.

999
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:16,180
There's a point where we have hundreds of creatives at our discord only building and

1000
01:05:16,180 --> 01:05:18,840
looking for tools or hundreds of speculators or gamers.

1001
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:19,840
It changes.

1002
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,200
So right now people were like, yeah, whatever.

1003
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,320
The general sentiment from our community, from our feedback, from our different wings

1004
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,400
of conversation is, Hey, we want stewardship and participation in the sandbox.

1005
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:34,560
We want you guys to lead it with what you think is in the best interest of the project

1006
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,560
and the sandbox as a whole.

1007
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:41,220
And so of course we take the community's sentiment into consideration.

1008
01:05:41,220 --> 01:05:42,360
Of course.

1009
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:49,640
I would not say that for this particular, we're talking a tiny issue in the weeds relative

1010
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:56,960
to the bigger scope of the Dow, not to minimize your experience here, Lanser, but the emoji

1011
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,840
thing where we're talking about, it was five emojis versus three emojis or whatever.

1012
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:07,040
Clearly that's different than the Dow represented as a whole.

1013
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:14,160
So I think it's just, we needed clarification on process, which I don't know that I'm still

1014
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:15,160
clear.

1015
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,680
I think I need to go back and rehash exactly where that is at.

1016
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:25,440
But at the end of the day, the community sentiment is under advisement with the council and the

1017
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:30,280
council, you know, with their various perspectives and what they interact with in this ecosystem

1018
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:35,040
and in greater web three, have to make the call on what they think is in the best interest.

1019
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,040
Yeah.

1020
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:42,040
I was surprised as well, because even the wavy one proposal went through multiple iterations

1021
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,720
where we, at first I was going to take the BOTB route, bulls on the block route, where

1022
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:47,900
it was just a snapshot duplicate.

1023
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:53,160
Same thing with Seb Dow when Seb wants to use his coin and his, I think he's got about

1024
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,240
300,000 VP himself.

1025
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:00,840
He uses a snapshot copy proposal process.

1026
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,480
And then, you know, I got some feedback and wavy one throughout the process from your

1027
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,000
mongoose, Zorro and others.

1028
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:14,440
And then we landed on the emoji slash community discussion.

1029
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:20,260
And so when I first posted in all three channels, you know, the whale, the water, deeper water,

1030
01:07:20,260 --> 01:07:23,920
and then the general, I largely got crickets and I was surprised.

1031
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:25,640
I didn't know what to do with that.

1032
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,160
So the only thing I had left was the emoji.

1033
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:33,140
That was my one thing to hold on to that as part of the process we had determined.

1034
01:07:33,140 --> 01:07:38,400
So now as far as I understand, it's just the discussion and then somewhat like emoji is

1035
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,840
kind of like an ancillary to that.

1036
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,720
And so that's where we are right now from what I can understand.

1037
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:52,640
And I'm sure it will go through more iterative improvements as we think up more ways to involve

1038
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,000
the community more.

1039
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:59,360
Whereas right now, I was having a tough time getting people to discuss it rather than say,

1040
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,360
yeah, okay, whatever you think.

1041
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:06,360
And I'm like, that's not that's not that's not what I was going for.

1042
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:13,120
Yeah, I mean, this is a this is an issue with Web3 community governance in general, I feel

1043
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:18,600
like a lot of people are there to lurk and just be participants.

1044
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,960
And I don't think that means they don't care.

1045
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:29,280
They may not feel like they can contribute their opinion for one way or another.

1046
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:35,040
But I think this is important to where it just comes down to the documentation of what

1047
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:40,400
we put forth out there in the charter, the white paper, these papers that exist that

1048
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:45,560
are constantly being iterated on, and then the various channels for discussion.

1049
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:50,640
Some are tailored to specific role holders, like you mentioned our whale role holders,

1050
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:57,000
which is kind of the top tier of the hold to play roles within the discord.

1051
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:02,160
The deep water channel is generally for the dolphin role holders.

1052
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:03,920
That's a big bulk of it.

1053
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,520
And then we have the metaverse channel as well.

1054
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:12,480
And I believe that's a channel that that again, if you just hold one whale, you can participate

1055
01:09:12,480 --> 01:09:14,040
in that.

1056
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:19,640
But you know, to be able to document across all these channels, all these different papers,

1057
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:25,480
whatnot, exactly what the process is, what the discussion is, and then ultimately snapshot

1058
01:09:25,480 --> 01:09:31,080
voting, you know, then we at least have something to go by for the future.

1059
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:40,200
And this constant iteration isn't just completely baseless, which I think is important.

1060
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:46,880
I think I've said this already, there's differing opinions within our leadership group and with

1061
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,440
our team with regards to governments.

1062
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:55,360
But I'm always a proponent of a more hybrid model, because I think that full automation,

1063
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,700
we've seen what's happened there from a negative perspective in a lot of ways.

1064
01:09:59,700 --> 01:10:01,680
So I'm always concerned about something like that.

1065
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,760
Hey, someone sneaks in when didn't that actually happen recently?

1066
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:08,960
Mungus, we were talking about that there was a Dow that their attention was elsewhere and

1067
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:15,240
someone snuck in a proposal that passed and liquidated and they had to come in over the

1068
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,200
top and be like, yeah, this is because people weren't paying attention.

1069
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,940
And so, you know, there's a lot of people that were in whale for a lot of reasons.

1070
01:10:23,940 --> 01:10:28,720
And there's there's sandbox holders as well that and people that just play sandbox too.

1071
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,940
But it's a different space than it was five years ago.

1072
01:10:31,940 --> 01:10:35,100
People have a ton of communities that they touch base with.

1073
01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:39,340
People get their information a lot of different ways and they come when they want to and check

1074
01:10:39,340 --> 01:10:41,000
in with home base and do different things.

1075
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,400
But they're not probably, you know, actively all the time there to be able to participate

1076
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:47,400
in that way.

1077
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,580
So even when we had our different governance structure where it was like, hey, people put

1078
01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:55,080
a formal proposal and as discussed in this room and these guys are voters and you have

1079
01:10:55,080 --> 01:11:01,260
to vote or you lose your stake, all this stuff, we had to encourage people like, look, governance

1080
01:11:01,260 --> 01:11:02,260
is hard.

1081
01:11:02,260 --> 01:11:06,620
Like, Wes talks about he's in a what is it like a community farm or his rooftop or something?

1082
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:10,560
He's like, I can't get people to I can't get people to respond to stuff because it's not

1083
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,040
the particular thing they care about.

1084
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,320
So like, you have to go pull the responses out of people.

1085
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:16,920
He's like, I got to go pull someone aside.

1086
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,800
Like, hey, what did you think of this?

1087
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:19,800
Right.

1088
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,340
And so doing that in a digital community and really advocating and pushing for the conversation

1089
01:11:24,340 --> 01:11:26,440
is a tough thing to balance.

1090
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:27,960
Some people think I just throw it out there.

1091
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,680
Some people don't want to look like spam.

1092
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:36,400
So there's some challenges in that with regards to governance in general, not just Web3.

1093
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:41,680
But I think that having that hybrid structure is a feature, not a bug.

1094
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:43,000
But that's my personal opinion.

1095
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,120
And I think that there's a sliding scale of how much every person would like that to be.

1096
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,160
Some people want it all the way automated.

1097
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:50,160
Here's the contract.

1098
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,800
These many, there's five emojis versus four.

1099
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,300
The contract activates.

1100
01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:55,300
That's what I was going for.

1101
01:11:55,300 --> 01:11:56,300
Yeah.

1102
01:11:56,300 --> 01:11:58,120
I could not sleep at night knowing that's the case, right?

1103
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,080
Because some super smart person, Lancer, is going to come in.

1104
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,080
No, I'm just kidding.

1105
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,400
But someone that's going to understand how to leverage that system in a way that would

1106
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,680
just benefit them when other people may be asleep at the wheel would do so.

1107
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,120
And some people would say that that's great.

1108
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:18,640
Our ethos and our mission and what we're here to do does not align with that.

1109
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:19,640
So maybe we are.

1110
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,640
I didn't realize that when I first proposed it.

1111
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:22,640
Yeah.

1112
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:23,640
Maybe we're 80-20.

1113
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:25,560
Maybe we're 75-20, whatever that is.

1114
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:28,200
But it's not 100% the contract goes.

1115
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:29,200
Yeah.

1116
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:30,200
Yeah.

1117
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:35,680
And I would say too, this is for me coming out of my personal experience in the physical

1118
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:43,420
world too, whether it's working with corporations, large corporations, nonprofits, or even just

1119
01:12:43,420 --> 01:12:49,760
artist collectives where it's very nebulous as to who's coming from where and what the

1120
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:51,200
responsibilities are.

1121
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:56,240
But at the end of the day, you do need some sort of structure in place.

1122
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:04,320
And I think without a doubt, there needs to be some sort of central entity.

1123
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:09,400
And I don't want to say centralized entity, but there needs to be someone or some body

1124
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:17,720
that's ultimately making the final call and not letting it just be whoever shows up, whoever

1125
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,600
just happens to participate in that particular conversation.

1126
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:28,800
Because I've personally seen it in so many different applications that you just can't

1127
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:33,160
rely upon that complete decentralized collective mentality.

1128
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,040
There needs to be a little bit more.

1129
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:36,040
Yeah.

1130
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:41,260
That's the way when I developed Wavy One is I wanted a system that if I had walked away

1131
01:13:41,260 --> 01:13:43,660
from it, it would still work.

1132
01:13:43,660 --> 01:13:45,320
It would still function.

1133
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:50,240
And nowhere did that become more apparent when I think it was not this sip, but the

1134
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:51,320
prior sip.

1135
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:56,680
I was late to telling you all that it happened, and then you only had like a week to vote.

1136
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:01,440
And then suddenly I felt like a jerk because I missed it.

1137
01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:06,560
And like, well, man, that's the downside of not having an automated system.

1138
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:08,240
I'm heavy process oriented.

1139
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:12,400
I love automation and processes and that sort of stuff.

1140
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,520
But yeah, I think we'll work on it over time.

1141
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:16,800
It'll get better.

1142
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:21,480
And we'll take this first iteration and then see what we can do to improve upon it.

1143
01:14:21,480 --> 01:14:25,920
So I'm not too worried about it now that I understand the environment a little bit more.

1144
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:32,480
What are some criteria that you all used to vote on sips?

1145
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:37,320
And the ones that stand out to me with the past two that you've commented on night in

1146
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:42,800
discord is cost scope, sentiment, long term vision.

1147
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:44,440
Are there any others that jump out at you?

1148
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:48,240
Would you amend that list?

1149
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:54,320
I think sentiment is is probably one of the most important for me, but I'm the culture

1150
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:55,320
guy, right?

1151
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:56,320
So I suppose that makes sense.

1152
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:00,160
It's in my wheelhouse, but I don't want to make a decision on, for example, the last

1153
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:06,760
sip and clearly one party was embedded with the community a lot more than the other, right?

1154
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:10,760
And so that plays a role in our decision making process.

1155
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:17,760
And it's weighted heavily on cost relative to the budget, I suppose.

1156
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:23,000
And just recently, I've kind of come to the revelation that there's planned partitions

1157
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,960
for the budget where they wanted at least initially.

1158
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:30,600
Initially, they said, hey, this is how much we should spend on this and outreach and marketing

1159
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:36,280
and user acquisition and had those silos that wasn't as clear to me initially.

1160
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:40,480
But even so, setting precedent, I think is important.

1161
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:42,240
That's something that we talk about.

1162
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,240
The macro sentiment of the community is probably the most important.

1163
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:46,320
What are the player bases?

1164
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:47,320
What are the builders?

1165
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,400
What are the other holders that are a long standing embedded entrenched in this ecosystem

1166
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,560
saying what's important to them?

1167
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:58,960
And then what do we think is the carry over effect of it?

1168
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:03,280
Is it a net positive for the initiative and the sandbox?

1169
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:07,920
And way down the list would be what it means relative to our holdings.

1170
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,040
Because of course, that's important.

1171
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:13,760
But I think progressive growth and success and health of the sandbox and its player based

1172
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:18,400
and community, that comes back to us in kind in our assets.

1173
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:25,440
So sentiment is probably the most important thing and really having a good pulse on what

1174
01:16:25,440 --> 01:16:26,440
that conversation is.

1175
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:28,280
And it's not always 100%.

1176
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:29,320
It's not always clear.

1177
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:34,480
And that's where some of these other things become weighted and become part of it.

1178
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:36,880
I come from a business background as well, like yourself.

1179
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:43,600
And I think that something where I see open ended or lack of transparency and someone

1180
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:53,200
answering something or if I see something that might become a liability instead of the

1181
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:57,560
objective initially, it's beyond the scope of what it is.

1182
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:01,720
These are things that we take into consideration, but I will tell you, if you think I left the

1183
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:07,000
dissertation for what you saw, you should see the internal conversations, which clearly

1184
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:12,760
I can't show you, but there was robust conversation and it's contentious even between us sometimes.

1185
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:19,120
We have different views and we share them and we try to come to a conclusion together

1186
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:20,960
on what we think is the pathway forward.

1187
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:21,960
Yeah.

1188
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:22,960
I say dissertation.

1189
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:31,280
It really was just like some multiple paragraphs and it was bulleted.

1190
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,360
Now I say that dissertation would be like multiple pages worth.

1191
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:35,360
I get you.

1192
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:36,360
I get you.

1193
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,360
I tried to be thorough and poignant.

1194
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:41,760
I tried to be thorough and poignant.

1195
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:42,760
I tried to be poignant.

1196
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,000
I gave you my business shorthand there.

1197
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,840
It was good.

1198
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,720
That was very meaningful to me.

1199
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:50,800
All right.

1200
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:56,640
Next one was, how does the Will community organize and communicate?

1201
01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:00,320
We've got Discord.

1202
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,480
We have XBases.

1203
01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:04,480
Yeah.

1204
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:06,400
The Discord is the main hub.

1205
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:13,520
This is where the community was formed back in 2020, May of 2020.

1206
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:14,920
That's how I got into it.

1207
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:20,160
The Clubhouse talk that I experienced, that was just an extension.

1208
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:22,480
I think we have all these other extensions, right?

1209
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:27,720
The YouTube channel, Twitch channel, the X account.

1210
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:34,480
We are also increasingly involved in decentralized social media.

1211
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:37,480
We recognize the importance of that.

1212
01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:42,480
The one that I think we participated the most in, and you can agree or disagree, Nightmare,

1213
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:51,480
I think is Diso, or the current incarnation of that is Focus, previously Diamond or Bit

1214
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:52,720
Cloud.

1215
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:58,160
I think that Whale has had a presence on that probably since the beginning.

1216
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:01,400
Was that 2020, maybe even 2021?

1217
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:08,160
But yeah, I think there's all that in addition to in real life or physical events.

1218
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:13,680
I think that's something that we're always looking to expand.

1219
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:22,680
We've been at various conferences like Token 2049 in Singapore, NFT LA, or sorry, at that

1220
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,240
point it was called Outer Edge LA.

1221
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:33,120
We did a panel there talking about multi-chain NFTs.

1222
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:37,400
We had artists involved in that.

1223
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:45,240
And most recently, there's announcements now about our co-sponsoring of the NFC Summit

1224
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:46,960
in Lisbon coming up in June.

1225
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:47,960
Nice.

1226
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:48,960
Congratulations.

1227
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:49,960
That's going to be a really big one too.

1228
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,320
Yeah, no, it's going to be great.

1229
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:59,880
As much as we are this omniversal membership club for the natively digital, that omniverse

1230
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:03,040
does include the physical world, right?

1231
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:08,240
And that's how a lot of us make deeper connections, network.

1232
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:15,160
And I think it just builds that better foundation of our relationships that do exist in the

1233
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:16,800
digital world.

1234
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:23,200
And to join Whale community, do you need one Whale, the Ethereum token, or I guess, and

1235
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:24,200
Polygon token, right?

1236
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,960
It's Ethereum and Polygon.

1237
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:32,840
Anyone can hop in our Discord, can check in on our media like Mangu said, depending on

1238
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:34,680
where we are in the cycle and what's going on.

1239
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:42,760
I think on Twitter and YouTube and Twitch, we live streamed 11 events over the past 30

1240
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:43,760
days.

1241
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:49,080
A couple of artists interviews, a couple of platform explorations for creators.

1242
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:52,760
Of course, we have our spaces talk where we do natively digital, where we touch on a whole

1243
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,800
bunch of things along with Wes, who's our head of art and Emmy award winning host, by

1244
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:00,360
the way, and three time Jeopardy champion, four time Jeopardy.

1245
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:02,400
I don't know which one it is, but either way.

1246
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:05,920
Yeah, Wes is literally as an Emmys, literally as Emmys.

1247
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:10,120
But nonetheless, nonetheless, like we have all this media that we put out.

1248
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:13,120
We'll put out more medium when we feel the time is appropriate.

1249
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,120
We'll do Twitter threads.

1250
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:15,360
So follow us on Twitter.

1251
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,220
You'll see what we got going on.

1252
01:21:17,220 --> 01:21:20,160
You could check out the different interviews and things we do live.

1253
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:24,040
There's a lot of things that are great discussions or we're showing you cool stuff.

1254
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:29,160
You learn with ordinals, but most of all really home base for us is the Discord because there

1255
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:33,760
we can use the social token, which is just an intrinsic part of us, right there.

1256
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:38,000
We can literally use whale the token in a social environment.

1257
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:39,320
We can't do that on Twitter.

1258
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,400
We can't do that on spaces so much.

1259
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:42,540
So we love Discord.

1260
01:21:42,540 --> 01:21:44,440
It's always been home for us.

1261
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:45,600
There's a lot of different rooms.

1262
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:48,680
If you pop in, you do not need whale to hop on the discord.

1263
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:52,220
I think you could talk in general and see several channels and talk in a bunch of channels

1264
01:21:52,220 --> 01:21:53,220
without any whale.

1265
01:21:53,220 --> 01:21:59,080
But if you do want to grab one whale, which is whatever, 30 cents or something, and probably

1266
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,560
there's other ways that you could get it just by participating.

1267
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,320
People hang out in our live events and we airdrop whale.

1268
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:05,320
We tip it out.

1269
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:10,880
So you get one whale, then you can post in different channels where we're doing stuff

1270
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:13,520
and participate in different ways and get different.

1271
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:15,840
We do games for the Super Bowl, for sports.

1272
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:19,320
I'm doing stuff with NBA Top Shot, all that kind of stuff.

1273
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,720
And the goal really is not that people buy whale because if it was, why would we have

1274
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:23,880
it at one whale?

1275
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:29,560
It's to really make you part of this social currency network and understanding how you

1276
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:34,800
use that and how tokenization is important and what we're doing here on Web3.

1277
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,800
It's not just observing from afar.

1278
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,460
Hop in, get your feet wet, have one token.

1279
01:22:40,460 --> 01:22:43,720
If you need one, I'm sure there's ways to get it.

1280
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,520
Maybe I'll give you a token, who knows?

1281
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:50,120
But hop in, participate, and really be part of what we do.

1282
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,120
We'd love to have all walks of Web3.

1283
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,680
Whether you're a creator, just enthusiasts, or you're on here, what the hell is this about,

1284
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:57,680
guys?

1285
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:58,680
Which we get plenty.

1286
01:22:58,680 --> 01:22:59,680
We get plenty.

1287
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,880
And either spend some time and explore or you don't.

1288
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:08,360
But I do think we're a very cool home base for people because we touch on so many different

1289
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:09,360
things.

1290
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,880
And you get a lot of exposure to a lot of cool stuff.

1291
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:16,700
Some of my most amazing opportunities, things I've done, acquired wins, or just amazing

1292
01:23:16,700 --> 01:23:22,120
experiences I've had in this space was just by being there when something was happening

1293
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:23,120
in Whale.

1294
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,400
So it's a unique recipe with the people and the community that we have.

1295
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,640
So welcome everybody to participate.

1296
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,760
But for communication, keep your eye on the Twitter.

1297
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:36,200
Anything we have going on anywhere else, you'll probably see outlined on Twitter.

1298
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:37,840
And we'll let you know that as well.

1299
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:44,400
Hey, natively digital on Tuesdays, Whale Hour, which is kind of like a town hall.

1300
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:49,880
And just hearing from Whale Shark and the rest of the leadership, partnerships.

1301
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:50,880
Yeah.

1302
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:55,320
And I would say we're looking at August 2024 here.

1303
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:59,600
It's a very different time already in the market.

1304
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:04,440
And likewise, we've also expanded programming.

1305
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:10,040
The Whale Hour is still something that's happening usually once a month at least.

1306
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:16,400
And it's a great time to hear from Whale leadership, if not Whale Shark himself.

1307
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:23,560
And we also have, like Nymer mentioned, various artist segments, project showcases that can

1308
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:29,480
be broad, kind of hitting multiple things all at once or really deep dives into a specific

1309
01:24:29,480 --> 01:24:30,480
artist.

1310
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:35,760
I started a show called Creator Toolbox that Nymer had alluded to where we are looking

1311
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:41,240
specifically at platforms or people that have been building tools for creators.

1312
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:47,800
And again, I'm trying to not even say artists because I do think that look at the sandbox,

1313
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:48,880
for example, right?

1314
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:57,240
You have a whole variety of creators who involved in one particular experience, right?

1315
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:03,320
From a visual artist to maybe a lighting designer, maybe there's narrative lore type things behind

1316
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:04,600
it.

1317
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:13,640
It's so much more than just simply who's pushing the JPEGs and even that, the JPEGs.

1318
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:14,640
There's a lot there.

1319
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,960
So yeah, there's already a lot happening.

1320
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:22,640
There's a lot more that I think is in the works.

1321
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:30,520
And it's just an incredible opportunity to learn and experience stuff.

1322
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:37,280
And like Nymer said too, by just being present, by being active, you're going to naturally

1323
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:39,400
be picking up whale.

1324
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:47,040
This is kind of the beauty of the social token is that we do ask for you to be holding that

1325
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:51,780
one just to access even more channels than you can just for free.

1326
01:25:51,780 --> 01:25:55,840
But then by holding these roles, you get more.

1327
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:56,840
That's the whole idea.

1328
01:25:56,840 --> 01:26:03,120
You get access to more and there's a monthly splash, a monthly whale splash of tokens that

1329
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,140
goes out to role holders.

1330
01:26:05,140 --> 01:26:10,720
So there's just so much that I think that can appeal to anybody.

1331
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,800
So I do recommend that anybody just jumps in the Discord.

1332
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:20,200
Zorro has done an incredible job of laying out this Discord to where you have a lobby

1333
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:25,200
that gives you basic information and then these very high level info channels with various

1334
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,640
articles that we're constantly updating.

1335
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,000
So we're also there too in the general channel.

1336
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:34,200
If anybody has any questions, just ask.

1337
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:41,040
There's other people asking the same questions.

1338
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,600
I think that's a carryover from my gaming days, Lancer.

1339
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:45,040
I live on Discord.

1340
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:47,640
You'd be hard pressed to not catch me on Discord.

1341
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:49,240
It's three in the morning.

1342
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,360
It's eight in the morning.

1343
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,160
You'll find me there.

1344
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:59,800
We had a community question, which are, what are some keys to success for leading a community

1345
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:04,380
like WhaleFam?

1346
01:27:04,380 --> 01:27:10,840
I think number one is, look, there's a lot of opportunities for people to participate

1347
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:12,320
in Web3.

1348
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:17,000
A lot of interest clearly in speculation and number go up.

1349
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:24,360
And I think that having a, and we see it right now, especially in Web3 gaming, there's like

1350
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:31,680
a plague of locusts that will descend upon a project and then leave at the next opportunity

1351
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:32,860
to go to the next thing.

1352
01:27:32,860 --> 01:27:38,000
And I think that it's important to have something that is bigger than that objective and that

1353
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:43,520
the people believe in, like a mission and a personality and an ethos of why you are

1354
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:44,520
there.

1355
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:53,440
So I think that conveying that and really championing that mission of what is bigger

1356
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:58,120
than just the financial aspect and what is something that people believe in that resonates

1357
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,180
with them is important.

1358
01:28:00,180 --> 01:28:06,200
And I think that secondly, empowering people within your community.

1359
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:10,700
People want to participate in a meaningful way and be recognized or be able to just be

1360
01:28:10,700 --> 01:28:12,020
light and pop in and out.

1361
01:28:12,020 --> 01:28:15,720
Either way, provide opportunities for people to do either.

1362
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:20,040
Don't make it so complex that people feel like if they're not contributing a ton that

1363
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:26,720
they don't belong in the conversation and then don't make it so obtuse and so light

1364
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,040
that people feel like it's not meaningful to be there.

1365
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:37,600
So it's a balance to try to label things and try to apply that to how you manage your community.

1366
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:42,200
But I think that we are blessed to be in a good position to do that, especially with

1367
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:47,880
the legacy that we have of our participation and really the early days of Web3 and that

1368
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:49,640
we're still here.

1369
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:50,640
We're still here.

1370
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,980
A sleeping giant, if you will.

1371
01:28:52,980 --> 01:28:53,980
We never stopped.

1372
01:28:53,980 --> 01:28:58,120
We've been churning out content and we've been here having these great conversations,

1373
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:03,680
but we're about to head into what many would anticipate to be the upswing of the bull cycle

1374
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:05,480
culminating maybe later this year.

1375
01:29:05,480 --> 01:29:06,480
Who knows?

1376
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:10,360
And we didn't collect all of these assets for nothing, right?

1377
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:15,080
Not to be meaningful and building something out on our estates, on doing something cool

1378
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:22,400
with our 26 OG early X copies, with having these legendary pieces and artists and the

1379
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,400
mythical cards and gods and change.

1380
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,800
We're not just sitting on our hands to do nothing, right?

1381
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:27,920
We definitely have plans.

1382
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:33,640
So attention can vacillate, but your mission should be steady on what you believe in, what

1383
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:35,280
your core ethos is.

1384
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:39,520
And of course, talking out the other side of my mouth is being able to read the room

1385
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:46,100
and adjust accordingly to suit the needs of what the macro community needs.

1386
01:29:46,100 --> 01:29:50,280
What does our head of partnerships and outreach say?

1387
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:55,120
I mean, I got to echo a lot of that.

1388
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:58,580
Whale is not the first community that I've been involved with and it's not the only one

1389
01:29:58,580 --> 01:30:00,800
I am involved with, right?

1390
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:10,440
But I do think that being able to listen to the community or read what they're typing,

1391
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:15,800
understanding the sentiment of what is there, but I think also understanding what's the

1392
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:18,360
universal question that's being asked.

1393
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:24,400
We're all coming to this from various walks of life, different life experiences, different

1394
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:28,680
professional experiences, different creative experiences.

1395
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:30,880
Some of us don't speak English.

1396
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:36,320
It's not our native language and that tends to be what the conversation is in.

1397
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:44,080
So being able to bring all that together and decipher it, process it, and be able to answer

1398
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:47,400
people and I think help them along the journey, right?

1399
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:52,160
I think this is something that I firmly believe in.

1400
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:59,120
You do have the option to go at it alone and to be just this kind of digital nomad who

1401
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:05,080
just wanders around by themselves and doesn't seek help from anybody.

1402
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:10,720
You just teach yourself and you come to your own conclusions and you achieve your own route

1403
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:13,780
of success purely through that.

1404
01:31:13,780 --> 01:31:21,640
But I think much with life, I would much rather have the experience of others to help myself

1405
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:27,720
along and then I think also contribute that experience to others and help them along as

1406
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:28,720
well.

1407
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:36,920
So I think being able to listen and understand what these collective needs are and help communicate

1408
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:46,200
to sometimes the needs of one aren't necessarily in line with the community's need to go forward

1409
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,880
and how they're going to go forward.

1410
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,600
And to keep that conversation alive too, right?

1411
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:59,240
To not stamp it out or really just exert yourself and shut somebody out.

1412
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:04,960
I think that is important and I think we can see that conversation in Wale quite often

1413
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:12,100
where there are people who have one opinion, others disagree, there's good conversation

1414
01:32:12,100 --> 01:32:18,440
about it, and at the end of the day, I think there's generally alignment on things.

1415
01:32:18,440 --> 01:32:23,000
And it doesn't necessarily mean that you also have to accept anything either, right?

1416
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:27,200
You can also dip in and dip out as you need.

1417
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:36,320
But as leaders, I think us being constantly present, regardless of the market cycle, that's

1418
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:38,680
a real fundamental, right?

1419
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:44,720
And I think most great leaders that I've seen in the Web3 space, they are very cognizant

1420
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:50,440
of the market, very aware of what's happening on a macro level as well as the micro level,

1421
01:32:50,440 --> 01:32:51,440
right?

1422
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:54,520
But that's not necessarily what's driving their decisions.

1423
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:58,480
It might color their decisions and might inform their decisions.

1424
01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:06,120
But understanding that North Star, that strategy that brought you here to begin with, that's

1425
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:08,840
ultimately I think what you have to latch onto.

1426
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:12,880
It can't be the market.

1427
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,440
That thing that brought you here in the beginning.

1428
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:19,440
Right on.

1429
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:21,880
Thank you both, Night and Mongoose.

1430
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:25,680
That was our community question.

1431
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:30,440
And I always run through these at the very end, the sandbox spaces.

1432
01:33:30,440 --> 01:33:36,120
You'll see the very end one is a particular, I've been doing this for 61 episodes now.

1433
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:42,000
So places where sandbox gathers is Discord, the hashtag DAO discussion.

1434
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,600
Also the sandbox DAO forums.

1435
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:49,560
On Twitter you have hashtag SamFam, hashtag the sandbox DAO, hashtag the sandbox game.

1436
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:56,320
Shout out to the sandbox DAO handle, a rash selective and whale members Discord, excuse

1437
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:57,720
me, X.

1438
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:02,080
On YouTube we have the sandbox DAO, Lancer YT, which is the podcast you're listening

1439
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,840
to right now, and SamFam Cafe.

1440
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:09,840
Shout out to Pig Axe Master in the chat, who hosts that normally.

1441
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:14,560
And then if you're into X spaces, today is Mochaverse Hall, so that's on Mondays, with

1442
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:15,560
G as us.

1443
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,800
Saturday is Bulls on the Block.

1444
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:23,760
They're primarily Apecoin and Sandbox.

1445
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:25,700
And then Coffee with Captains Monday through Friday.

1446
01:34:25,700 --> 01:34:30,920
And last but not least, on Tuesday we have Natively Digital with Whale Members.

1447
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:33,840
So 61 episodes, I've been going over these by the way.

1448
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:39,920
I thought that was kind of a neat thing.

1449
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:41,720
So we're at the end.

1450
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:45,760
Is there anything that you all would like to go over, any shoutouts you'd like to give

1451
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:47,720
before we conclude?

1452
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:52,400
Long Ghost Night.

1453
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:53,400
I think we're good.

1454
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:55,760
Yeah, I think we're good.

1455
01:34:55,760 --> 01:35:01,000
I think thank you for the opportunity to speak more directly with the SamFam.

1456
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,640
Guys know that we are not an ivory tower.

1457
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:07,640
We are not some scary entity looking to dump on the market either.

1458
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:13,480
We're here to meaningfully participate with the best interest of the Sandbox and the Metaverse

1459
01:35:13,480 --> 01:35:16,080
and Web3 as a culture moving forward.

1460
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:20,160
So all the decisions that we make are with that in mind.

1461
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:23,200
Shout out to everybody from the Whale community.

1462
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:30,160
Shout out to all of our friends and a special heartfelt shout out to the Legacy of A Lot

1463
01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:37,440
of Money who is the patron saint of crypto art who sadly passed on this date years ago.

1464
01:35:37,440 --> 01:35:43,240
Beloved, beloved artist within the crypto art community and more broadly.

1465
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:50,480
And we are blessed to have had his art and his time with us and his friendship, quite

1466
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:51,480
honestly.

1467
01:35:51,480 --> 01:35:56,480
So it's a somber day for a lot of people that are remembering our friend.

1468
01:35:56,480 --> 01:36:02,320
And we continue to do a lot of what we do because of his legacy and what he meant to

1469
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:03,320
the space.

1470
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:06,000
I think he embodied a lot of what was good about Web3.

1471
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:07,720
You're here.

1472
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:08,720
You're here.

1473
01:36:08,720 --> 01:36:12,200
Mongoose, Nightmare, thank you both for your time.

1474
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:17,680
I really appreciate getting to discuss with you and learn about the Whale community, learn

1475
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:22,240
what's important to you all and just have a discussion.

1476
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:28,600
Really appreciate the time and attention you give to the sandbox, especially to your voting

1477
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:34,000
power and approaching that with a thoughtful place.

1478
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,040
Thank you both and have a great day.

1479
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:38,040
Peace.

1480
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:39,040
Thanks, Lanzer.

1481
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:52,680
Bye.