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Hello everyone.

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Sandow Podcast number 52.

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Today we'll be doing a reaction to Digging in the Sand episode 2.

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And with a little bit of commentary mixed in.

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Disclaimer is that I do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.

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I'm not your financial or legal advisor and nothing I say is to be taken as financial

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legal advice.

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When I say the word SIP I mean Sandbox Improvement Proposal.

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When I say the word DAO I mean Decentralized Autonomous Organization.

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And when I use the word SANFAM I'm talking about the sandbox community.

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Those who participate in the people, products, and purpose of the sandbox ecosystem.

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That ecosystem looks a little bit like this.

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There's people.

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Everyone from gamers to the sandbox team to product from the game client all the way down

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to the DAO and the purpose which is described in the white paper and frequently talked about

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by Sebastian Bourget, Arthur Madadid, and Yatsu who are some of the key leaders in the sandbox

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ecosystem.

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Yatsu being chairman of the Animoco Brands.

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That altogether equals that ecosystem and today's episode is talking about the DAO and an episode

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by one of the sandbox teammates.

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For the scoreboard there are two developments.

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There are two SIPs right now.

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SIP number 19 and as yet unannounced SIP.

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SIP 19 is for the Sandow Podcast which is what you're listening to right now.

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It's on draft for another week before it goes to voting.

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And the other one is team selection for the user generated platform development where

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there are two proposals that we can select from.

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There are two SIPs right now open for voting.

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SIP number 16 and SIP number 17.

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16 is one of mine.

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Insert an in-game inventory filter for equipment and then SIP number 17 is a new horror game.

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It's looks like episode number two for animation and experience.

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For the SIP checkbook we're still at 15% of our $15.5 million budget having been spent.

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And still 211,000 token holders with 2,000 voters having casted almost 10,000 votes across

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15 proposals.

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My name is Lancer.

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I am the podcast host for Sandow Podcast.

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Also president of the MetaWorlds group.

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And we currently have two experiences.

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I'm a landowner and an avatar owner and DAO participant.

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So a little bit of a recap.

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So the DAO was announced May 28th and there were immediately some SIPs, a bunch of AMAs

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that happened to include me, about and Seb.

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And here's some episodes that I did on these things.

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Sandbox Game hosted an AMA about the Ambassador Program and about October 14th, DAO admin

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team announced the new communications manager, Bobby Kunta.

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Then November 17th, so about a month later, the first Dign in the Sand podcast episode

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released which is the official podcast of the Sandbox DAO.

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And it was a discussion with Cyril about the survey results and as well as some rationale

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and some accounting of the early days of the Sandbox DAO.

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The second Dign in the Sand episode came about a little over 10 days ago.

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And this was an extended discussion with Cyril about progressive decentralization.

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The third one released today, I'll do a reaction video although it's more about the introduction

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of the official DAO delegates of which I've interviewed 10 of the 12.

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Check out episodes 40 through 58.

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Today we're going to be doing that second episode there about progressive decentralization.

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Speaking of which, if you have not subscribed yet to Dign in the Sand with Kunta, please

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do so now.

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So go to the YouTube page over here, like that subscribe button and then you can see

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all of the videos that are currently released.

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And most of them, some of them are call to actions, some are his introduction, delegated

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voting power, and then his episodes.

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So some context, in the previous episode, episode 50 where I did a reaction video to

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the first episode, I did the context here from the October 7th Medium article which

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was covered in episode 33, Birth of the Sandbox DAO which covered episode 31, then the introduction

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of Kunta as the communication manager episode 32, the new SIP submission process which is

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episode 35, and then Dign in the Sand episode 1 which is episode 50, Sandale 50.

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So check those out for some context for today and we're going to get right into episode

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2 which was called Progressive Decentralization and the SIP process.

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Alright, Sam Fam, what's up?

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We're going to jump right into the fun with this one.

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Welcome to episode 1 of the official Sandbox DAO podcast.

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I'm your host Bob...

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Oh, that's episode 1.

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Let's move to episode 2.

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There it is.

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Alright, Sam Fam, what's up?

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Bobby Kunta here, your host at Dign in the Sand and we're going to dig in it again right

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now.

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We left off episode 1 digging through community concerns from the community poll that we took

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in 371 participants.

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It felt a little rushed there at the end so like we promised you we're going to jump back

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in and try and give a little bit more air to these topics that it's what it deserves.

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Again it might feel like we're not digging into everything or answering the questions

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you might have if you've got additional questions or concerns.

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We're totally here for everybody so drop the comments, drop the questions in the comments,

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hit us up on the forums wherever you guys know how to reach us.

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So with that we'll just jump right into it.

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I mean the next three bullets we're not even going to try and tackle everything.

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I think we're going to do another recording for you guys here too in the next week or

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two to dig through more of these concerns.

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But we want to give everything the air it deserves.

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So right now the next three bullets are just progressive decentralization in general.

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People have brought up that phrase in a lot of ways and have various levels of I don't

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know distaste or concern or questions about it.

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So we want to address those.

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The SIP process in general and the influence that the DAO admin team has over the advancements

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of SIPs and the bullet that came out of at least a half dozen comments on the poll and

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that we've seen also on our admin side which is just everybody just wants money which was

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actually one of the quotes from the poll.

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And it's a very real concern that we've got to address and tie into these three bullets

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together.

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So with that I'm going to pass it over to Cyril and we're just going to have a little

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bit of a back and forth candid unplanned conversation here about these topics.

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And here we go.

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I mean what do you think?

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Alright, as you can see, I'm less supportive of SIPs.

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I'm really, really happy to see that they're doing this unplanned.

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I think there's a level of authenticity, credibility and just straight transparency that results

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from something like that where they're unplanned.

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They're not necessarily doing it off the cuff, but they are prepared to know what they're

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talking about even if they don't know how they're going to talk about it yet.

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I think that's great.

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The first episode they did really gave some needed insight into transparency, the progressive

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decentralization, SIP process, the things that they were thinking about how the DAO

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was formed, the preparation that went into it.

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Cyril really, I think, showed himself as our DAO admin.

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Speaking as a DAO admin, I felt that he was speaking to me, to the community, to San Fam.

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And it didn't feel like a press tour, it didn't feel like a prepared speech.

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It is a closed format, so just like here it's just a pre-recorded conversation between the

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two of them, but it did feel real.

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It did feel like he was our DAO admin speaking to us.

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And I really liked that.

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I thought that was awesome.

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So let's continue.

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We're happy to be here for episode two.

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Like you said, let's tackle some of these hard questions and let's hope provide some

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good answers to them or something that will help reach a common understanding.

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So the first one on your list was progressive decentralization.

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There was an article that was published some weeks, a month ago by The Sandbox.

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And basically this was a declaration of intent or a reminder to the overall strategy about

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the DAO.

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And basically, if I were to summarize the article for listeners that haven't got the

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chance to read it all, it was basically highlighting what's our strategy, like why we're doing

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things the way we're doing things, like why, for example, the admin team has such a quote

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unquote heavy hands on curation and why these SIPs are categorized the way they are categorized.

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And I myself saw that early days because I submitted six SIPs to them in the old process,

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not the new one where you have to be invited, but I submitted six in the old process and

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that curation was extensive.

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Like I said, my first SIP went to vote a month ago.

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So it took what six, seven months for my first SIP to go.

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My second SIP isn't voting right now.

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So that's seven months now.

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And then Sando podcast just cleared admin reviews.

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It's in public comment now.

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So that took about seven months as well.

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So there was extensive back and forth that I did with DAO admin team on everything from

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the price to the risks make sense, where the milestones, you really had to come to an agreement

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with the DAO admin team for it to reach the light of day.

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And where my SIP, my Sando podcast SIP, for instance, was originally 60 episodes and it

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was much, it was much higher.

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Now they negotiated me down to 15 episodes for about $15,000.

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So about a thousand dollars an episode.

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And so their rationale was that they had a lot of rationale for it being a trial run,

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wanting to tie it to visibility and value added metrics, that sort of stuff.

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So 15 was the number that they ended up asking me to come down to.

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And so that took as long as it did from when I submitted my first SIP, I think in late

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May to now.

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And what is the type of SIP we encourage versus the one that maybe we don't feel are necessarily

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aligned with the vision of the DAO or the vision of the sandbox had for this DAO.

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There was quite a lot of feedback.

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I think most of the comments were more about the autonomous part of the DAO, the A in DAO.

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It's not entirely an autonomous endeavor.

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But we're getting there.

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And the idea behind that is much like when you're learning how to walk as a kid, you

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always have an adult next to you that is holding your hands or when you learn how to bike.

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And that's kind of the idea is the hand holding is a necessary step that we think is going

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to take us towards a better quality of SIPs going forward.

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And I'm not saying the SIPs we've got so far as of low quality.

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What I'm saying is we want the first SIPs to be the beacon, to be the benchmark for

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all of the future SIPs to come.

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So by having the admin team that is heavily involved in the creation process, challenging

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the author, making sure the SIP is compliant, negotiating prices, and et cetera, et cetera,

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the idea behind that is to set up a benchmark.

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This is the type of SIPs because that's a natural incline that what people do.

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One year, two years from now, when people will try to write a SIP, they will look at

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the SIPs that were successful.

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The one that have been voted yes has been received very well by the community.

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And I want when people look back at those SIPs, I want them to see SIPs that are actually

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like well-documented, well-written so they know, OK, if I duplicate that, maybe I have

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a better chance of success.

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So that's the idea.

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And that's also our idea to make sure we align with the vision of the sandbox, which is a

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bit different from the other data that we saw.

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This is not necessarily data that is here to finance all of the dreams.

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The SIPs has to be about the sandbox or the sandbox ecosystem.

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It has to fit into that narrative.

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It cannot be about, let's open a donut shop and sell whatever.

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I think here he's commenting on how Apecoin doubt, for instance, its first tweet out to

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everyone was, we're here to fund the business ambitions of the Apecoin holders.

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And so some of them funded things like a donut shop or a T. They funded a T shop.

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And Serial here is saying that that's actually not what we're here for.

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We're here to fund the things that add value to the sandbox ecosystem.

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And again, that ecosystem looks a little bit like this, where you've got either it's benefiting

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the people, the products that there are, the game client box at a game maker market or

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the DAO or the purpose, which is to be the cultural capital of the metaverse or to empower

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creators and that ecosystem making everything go round.

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Well, what he's saying is that it has to be connected to those things.

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And another thing he mentioned was that the hand holding thing that where as a parent,

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you teach your child what to do.

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And what that what that immediately reminded me of is the the admin when Mia bowed at her

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AMA with Seb in August there, I covered this already in episode number episode number

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19.

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But I'm going to just do a few seconds here of where Seb says that and his AMA with me

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about back in August.

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Like activated everybody was in the community.

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So also there's a question that because like the court is pushing some of the direction

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directly and also the community is doing some similar stuff, probably at the same time.

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So how do you balance the work between the cartoon and also the community?

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And also I've noticed there's balance between the community coming from part of the cartoon.

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Right.

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So does all of this kind of like operational activities actually push into the Dow and

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get approved and get some of the budget?

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They are not getting the budget from the cartoon directly.

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How does this thing kind of get balanced eventually?

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Well I believe like, during speaking, I always believe like in the greater good, like that

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if you, your mission, if you're committed to like drive positive impact, if you're committed

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to show that creator can actually make a revenue on the platform and share those stories.

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If we've been able to do the journey of sandbox for many years to drive like new job, new

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possibilities for people to earn, etc.

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Like good things spread out and they spread out not just because they get very viral,

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but because like you want to recommend something that has done a good impact on yourself to

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other people.

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So I believe again in that notion of greater good and like if we show like we've done until

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now the cap, the direction in a centralized manner and progressively we've been educating

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our community to about that and we hand over that forward to that community.

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Hopefully, like just like a child that you've been educating as a parent, they would have

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a quite certain value, they would have a quite certain concept and hopefully they will also

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carry those by themselves because of that education.

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So that's a very similar way that Seb spoke about just now with Mia back in August and

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Cyril says something similar now as he describes when he's approaching progressive decentralization,

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we're approaching it from someone who is trying to teach the community the way that they would

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like us to go when we're handed the reins fully or in some ways fully and that for Seb

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he hopes that we will continue and for Cyril he's trying to demonstrate here's this bright

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sip that we're looking for you to do and then here are the different actions that we're

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hoping that you'll perform and continue on.

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So very similar analogy there.

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There has to be something about the game and the closer it is to the game client, the game

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maker, the Vox edit, the closer it is to those topics, the better it will be.

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So that's the idea and that's I think what was behind our thinking when we designed the

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categories of budget that we also remind in the article.

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Like there's the article maker point to remind the reader, okay, we've got platform, we've

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got sandbox for good, et cetera, et cetera.

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We have all of these categories and this is what they're here for.

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So normally every sip should naturally adhere to those categories and if your sip does not

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fall under one of these categories, it means potentially this is not a sandboxed out sip.

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This is not a sandboxed out idea because these categories are supposed to be broad enough

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and capture the type of sips that are wanted by the sandbox.

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And I think that's an important point.

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And the article also make a difference between dow centric sip and sandbox centric sip, which

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I think is also an important point because we've seen a lot of suggestions on how to

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make a better dow and frankly that's awesome.

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I love it.

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But that's exactly what we're trying to do as an admin tip.

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We're trying to have a better dow, we're trying to connect to these API, have a better way

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to capture, to monitor our KPIs, capture feedback, make sure we are transparent, we make sure

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the sip process in terms of milestone being paid, et cetera, is captured in a way that

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is more transparent to the community.

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And the idea with, I think what this section of the article was saying is that there's

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no necessarily a sip that is required for that.

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You can just make a suggestion to the admin team, which is here to better the dow and

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its mechanics.

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This is what I still disagree with Sarah on this because it puts, I don't think the dow

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admin team are the only ones who have or should have the power to suggest dow centric things.

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Here he's saying that you, you don't have to do a sip for it, meaning don't do a sip

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00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:19,240
for it because we can submit a sip for anything we like, but not everything will become a

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00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:25,920
sip and he's saying we don't want that because we can use the operations budget that were

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00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:32,760
already approved in sip number two or three, I believe that approved the dow admin team

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to use the operations budget.

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And you can just submit it in the forum, that forum being over here.

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So the way we found it was under here, dow features request.

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So you go to this dow features request and then like you can already see me here, I put

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something there.

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00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,040
And then there's, there was another one somewhere where I recommended asked for them to have

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a mobile version and then they ended up implementing it through discourse on the mobile app.

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00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,200
So that that worked out well.

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00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,520
I didn't have to do a sip for that.

278
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Maybe I'll find it here.

279
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,400
No, not there.

280
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,400
It's somewhere around here.

281
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,600
But I didn't have to do a sip and he's saying you don't have to do a sip either.

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00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:25,960
However, the big asterisk is that suggestion box can go right into a shredder and a sip

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00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,880
goes to a community vote.

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00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,840
So different type of shredder if the community rejects it versus it going into the forum

285
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,960
and you're not really sure if it's being given its its fair consideration by the dow admin

286
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,960
team or the dow admin team just says no, I don't think we should really do that.

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00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:50,120
A sip compels the ad the San Fam to vote on it to acknowledge it.

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Whereas the suggestion box can be disregarded.

289
00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:00,040
And it's kind of like the power of control that that we're looking at here.

290
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,400
So I disagree with Cyril and that I don't believe that the dow admin team should be

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00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,960
the only way that you do Dallas nitric things.

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00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,600
That said, I think he's going a really long way a really good way here to explain his

293
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:22,000
reasoning I before I was suspicious, just the way that our article was read.

294
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:30,120
And the article that we're talking about here is the Dow, the new sip process and the decentralization.

295
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:31,600
It was.

296
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,000
Where is it?

297
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,240
Here the medium article I did episode 33.

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00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,280
Ref reads that said we've heard the community's feedback and under so I've shown that one

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a few different times.

300
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,200
And it was the medium article about progressive decentralization and I had a lot of questions.

301
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,520
I was very intense in my questioning there.

302
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,960
And that was because there was so little information except a one way here's how it's going to

303
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,720
be and I'm saying why is it supposed to be like that?

304
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,200
Or it seems like you all are exercising too much aggressive power there.

305
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,760
And there doesn't seem to be a way for the community to check you on your power and and

306
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:20,240
counter anything that it feels is abusive or offensive or overbearing or excessive.

307
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,800
There just wasn't a way for the community to to deal with that.

308
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,680
And there still isn't.

309
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:33,120
However, the way that Cyril is explaining his rationale here is a lot more.

310
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,320
I get a lot more now, even though I still don't fully agree.

311
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,680
I feel less concerned that we don't have that power.

312
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,200
And he seems to he drops his sense every now and again that it's not we're going to iterate.

313
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,120
We're going to give more power.

314
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:52,100
Just like a parent teaching a child, we're trying to teach the ad the community how we

315
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:54,040
want it to be.

316
00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:02,320
So I have confidence that it's going to it's going to improve in the way the community

317
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:09,040
can can exercise its own power, maybe one day even propose its own DAL centric sips.

318
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:16,680
Yeah, so I feel less concerned about it than I did when I when I did episode 33.

319
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,760
So yeah, that's good.

320
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,760
We should be focused about bettering the sandbox, the sandbox game, the sandbox platform.

321
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,040
There's also an article published maybe about a month ago as well for submission guidelines

322
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,240
and just updating that, which also clarifies this whole process.

323
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:39,560
I noticed that in the new SIP guidelines as of today, they they I think they made some

324
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:46,940
of the suggestions that I that I asked for in SIP number 35 episode number 35.

325
00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:48,440
So stand out 35.

326
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,360
When I covered the new stuff like that, it's cool, the new.

327
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:59,920
What am I trying to say the new SIP guidelines.

328
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:11,720
And so yeah, the like steps number zero through eight, they they change it to one through

329
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,720
eight.

330
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,480
So I thought that was really helpful.

331
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,000
It better it makes a lot more sense now.

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00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,720
Because before when I first showed up, there were some things that didn't make as much

333
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,720
sense.

334
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,200
It seemed like it made the process harder and more complicated and that sort of thing.

335
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,080
So I can see them iterating.

336
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,440
I can see them doing better and better.

337
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Like here's is the I could see them doing just a lot more.

338
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:47,360
And so that was episode number 35.

339
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,640
Yeah, so this one here.

340
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,640
Yeah.

341
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:57,120
And in the beginning, the portions, I was going over the new SIP process, which was

342
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:02,400
an eight step process, but on the website only showed like four or five steps.

343
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,880
But when you actually sounded it out and wrote it down, it was it was eight steps.

344
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:14,280
So you had this, this right here, a changing of the old way from May to the new way, where

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00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:20,440
it went from it went from five steps, eight steps.

346
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,920
So it got a little bit more complex.

347
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,700
And I went through here on episode 35 exactly how that went down.

348
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:33,360
But then when you go to the website that first time, you can see there's the categories.

349
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,880
What I'm looking for is very beginning.

350
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,120
Somewhere in here, I showed the steps at the very top.

351
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:42,780
But now it looks a lot different.

352
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:44,120
And it looks really good.

353
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,560
So take a look.

354
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,560
Sandboxdown.com.

355
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:55,800
And then you go to up here and proposals, submission guidelines.

356
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,180
And then there it is.

357
00:24:57,180 --> 00:25:00,120
Step one, you submit an idea to the SIP idea.

358
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,120
Excellent.

359
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,140
There's the link right there.

360
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:05,360
So anyone can see it now.

361
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,560
Then step two, your idea receives interest.

362
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,440
The DAO admin team invites you to submit your SIP.

363
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,400
That's so much clearer.

364
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,320
That is so much clearer.

365
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,920
Step three, submit your SIP by filling the form.

366
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,040
Step four, the DAO team will review it, help articulate the SIP in a shared document, leaving

367
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,040
comments.

368
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,360
So then there's the review.

369
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,160
Then step five, the DAO, the council issues recommendation.

370
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,920
Step six, you refine your SIP.

371
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,560
So you're doing two admin reviews, basically.

372
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,640
Step six and step four, which is more complicated than the old process.

373
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,760
But this is clear.

374
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,280
This is very clear what the process is.

375
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,960
And there's the categories, different SIPs.

376
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,400
I went over this in episode 35.

377
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:57,760
It was a long one because that's how long it took to get through all of these things.

378
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,120
All of this.

379
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,120
I see them iterating though.

380
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:02,120
I see them improving.

381
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,480
So just for the listeners out there who might not understand what we're talking about, are

382
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,480
we referring to juice boxes or what?

383
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,320
Maybe you're new to the DAO, but a SIP is a sandbox improvement proposal.

384
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,760
And that's the way that community members in the DAO can advance an idea to improve

385
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,760
the sandbox gaming ecosystem.

386
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,080
And what Sarah was referring to is we want game-centric or TSB-centric SIPs, not DAO-centric,

387
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,240
that the DAO admin team can in fact just use the operational budget to make improvements

388
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,160
or to make quick changes to get things done.

389
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,480
So we encourage community feedback in regards to that.

390
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,240
I like that they can do that.

391
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:36,520
I just still disagree that they should be the only ones with the power to do DAO-centric

392
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:37,520
things.

393
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,920
The only ones with the power to implement because we can just submit things and they

394
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,280
can disregard it.

395
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,640
Whereas with a SIP, a lot harder to disregard.

396
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,920
Just a DM or a comment on the board instead of a SIP can sometimes make...

397
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,560
I do understand where they're going with it though.

398
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:52,560
I get it.

399
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Quicker and more effective change.

400
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,360
So just to speak to what you said right there, we want as little curation required as possible.

401
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,840
So the reason progressive decentralization and the SIP process are getting lumped together

402
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,160
here is because we don't want to have that heavy hand that Sarah referred to.

403
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,960
We want the SIPs to be coming in the way that they should be and require a little curation

404
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,280
or handholding that you mentioned.

405
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,680
So that's one of the kinds of benchmarks that we're looking at for what progressive could

406
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,080
mean.

407
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,040
Others could include things like Quarant being consistently met.

408
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,920
That was a problem and we don't want that that can't be a part of any DAO that's going

409
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,920
to be sustainable.

410
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,560
So to that end, we just implemented delegation.

411
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,560
We've got high hopes for it.

412
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,560
It should look pretty good.

413
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,640
We've got 12 verified delegates now, each with over 2 million voting power.

414
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,000
So we should be making moves to get Quorum all the time, but that needs to be consistent.

415
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,120
So we've got to look at that.

416
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:36,000
Other things are just having a framework that's really in place and functioning healthy for

417
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,000
how this is happening.

418
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,760
So that's just the processes to make things work.

419
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,720
A self-governing community with inclusive, responsive, and responsible leaders that step

420
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,720
up.

421
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,600
And to that end, including more of the community is also a comment that we've heard consistently

422
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,120
in the community poll, which is again what this episode is trying to speak back to.

423
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:57,120
So to that end, I'm just going to give a little not a leak, but a little hype mode here is

424
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,000
that we are working on a way that we think is going to be really well received by the

425
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,680
community to bring in more people into leadership roles to represent the community.

426
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,400
So stay tuned for that in December.

427
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,880
I think everybody's going to receive that really well.

428
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,960
So now, I want to tie this bullet in there.

429
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,320
So far, our discussion has really focused on progressive decentralization, the influence

430
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,200
of the Dow admin team in the SIP process, and how that has not been as well received

431
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,200
by the community as possible.

432
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,440
But the other bullet in there is everybody just wants money.

433
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,200
This idea of everything being extractive is something that we've seen in other Dows in

434
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,120
preparing for what we're doing here and just spend some time on spaces and you'll hear

435
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:34,600
what's going on in other Dows.

436
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,720
And from the background here as the admin team, we've seen the SIPs that are proposed

437
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,020
and see that people are seeing a big pot of money in front of them and maybe asking for

438
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:42,520
more than is needed.

439
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240
The community also sees that and it's been a consistent comment on the poll.

440
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,160
That's a quote right out of the poll.

441
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,440
Everybody just wants money.

442
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,640
So for that extractive community principle to kind of shift towards something that's

443
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:53,640
building is important.

444
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,560
It's hard to put a metric on, but we all see that.

445
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:57,560
Yeah, definitely.

446
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,520
And I think it's back to our point about the progressiveness and decentralization and the

447
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,520
role of the admin team.

448
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,280
If you see consistently SIPs that are within a certain bracket being approved and SIPs

449
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,880
that are over another bracket being more challenged, more difficult to pass.

450
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,040
Because obviously if you ask for half a million, the community is going to be like, you better

451
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,360
deliver and we better understand what you're trying to do here.

452
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,800
Otherwise, I'm not going to vote for you.

453
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,240
But if you ask for maybe five grand, it's an easier conversation.

454
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,040
It's natural.

455
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:29,840
My experience right now though is that even a SIP that is low dollar figure, but either

456
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:36,440
runs afoul of certain DAO admin team perspectives, it's still difficult to get through.

457
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,360
Like my Sandel podcast.

458
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:44,920
I think I submitted that thing four, five, six months ago, but early feedback was, well,

459
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:50,840
we have another podcast we want to do and we're not sure we want to fund you.

460
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,720
And I persisted like, well, even if you have a podcast that you're going to do, it's not

461
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,920
here yet.

462
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,160
Mine is.

463
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,400
And I think that was like episode seven or think when I started that I'm at episode 52

464
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,720
now, and it's about to go to vote.

465
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,000
And so it was still really difficult a lot back and forth.

466
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,840
I had to change a lot of things about the SIP in order to get it to to compromise with

467
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,760
the DAO admin team.

468
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,720
So a lot harder than some of my other SIPs, which still had quite a bit of discussion,

469
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:31,720
but ultimately five, six months later now are going to vote.

470
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,960
So it doesn't feel like even my zero dollar SIPs are are easier to pass.

471
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,520
They all feel equally difficult.

472
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,420
Difficult, maybe is the wrong strong word.

473
00:30:43,420 --> 00:30:48,060
They all feel equally challenged by the DAO admin team.

474
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:49,120
And maybe that's by design.

475
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,120
Or so.

476
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,120
OK.

477
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,960
And now that I can start to see the rationale behind Serial's point of view, I feel a lot

478
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,040
better about it.

479
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:02,640
But back then I had didn't have a lot of of access or or communication with why they were

480
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:03,640
doing what they were doing.

481
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:04,640
They were just doing it.

482
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,920
They were saying, oh, it needs to be like this.

483
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,920
It needs to be like that.

484
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,920
We don't want that.

485
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,680
And like, well, but this is this should be going to the community for vote.

486
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,560
And we just in some ways we're at an impasse.

487
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,880
So it was I was challenged quite a bit.

488
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,160
And I feel like maybe that was just the early growing pains between myself and the DAO admin

489
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,600
team, the DAO admin team trying to figure out how it wants to challenge SIPs.

490
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:35,540
And then for me, just learning how to propose a SIP that the DAO admin team believes is

491
00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:37,480
beneficial to the community.

492
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,160
And I think that's just kind of learning, learning to be a community.

493
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,240
And I submitted six of them.

494
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,120
So I had a lot that were submitted.

495
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,400
So while I might disagree with Cyril on the DAO centric thing, I am beginning to understand

496
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:58,440
a little bit more and I'm less concerned about them challenging my SIPs to the degree that

497
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,440
they had.

498
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,180
They did challenge them a lot.

499
00:32:01,180 --> 00:32:10,400
So I feel better about it now, especially that I hear SIP Cyril explaining his rationale.

500
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,720
What is the aiming for here?

501
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,720
Right.

502
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,600
So we're trying to find that sweet spot of being like for a SIP to be big enough to be

503
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,120
meaningful, but also not to deplete the entire treasury of the DAO in one or two SIPs that

504
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,120
could be also meaningful, but also so big that there's no room for everybody else.

505
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,640
So there's always this back and forth, this kind of a tug of war between, OK, there's

506
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,400
an author that has a lot of ambition, but also we have to make sure there's room for

507
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,400
everybody, right?

508
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,240
Because everybody has ideas and everybody has the chance to formulate that idea through

509
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,240
a SIP yet.

510
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,600
So we need to make sure we can last with our budget for the whole year.

511
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,320
And this was one of the ideas behind that.

512
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,960
And I think something you said also about the new guidelines that was published.

513
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,760
There's also an element of guiding the user more and more by now it used to be a template

514
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,760
with an email address, right?

515
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,240
And it was a bit disorganized because some people will write directly to us using the

516
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,240
email.

517
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,240
Some people will post on the forum.

518
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,600
Some people will try to get a SIP done directly.

519
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,560
Some people will go through Seb or through me directly.

520
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,560
It was a mess.

521
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,960
And so now we're trying to bring it to have like a one single funnel.

522
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,400
Like if you work on it, it felt like a mess.

523
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,760
It felt like they were overwhelmed and I think maybe they learned from that.

524
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,640
So I only did mine via email.

525
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:23,720
The only time that I ever went outside of that was by Google Doc, I mean an email.

526
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:31,320
I think I might have emailed Cyril once about one of my podcasts or one of my SIP ideas.

527
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,040
I think about the Sandel podcast when I first got the feedback that they didn't want to

528
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,280
fund it because they planned on a podcast.

529
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,440
And I think I emailed Cyril and said, hey man, this shouldn't just be up to you all

530
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,880
telling me that you can't fund my SIP.

531
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,160
Like my podcast is going right now.

532
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:57,880
And eventually I think that, I think he did listen to that and now it's going to vote.

533
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,520
So clearly something happened there.

534
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:08,380
And I was grateful that we found a compromise between myself and them on that.

535
00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:14,680
But it felt like a mess because I would send comments.

536
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,360
They would then post comments on the Google Doc and then I would send, we'd go back and

537
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,120
forth, but there'd be like long stretches.

538
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,440
It would be, I would send comments, then they would have, there would be a week, then they'd

539
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,440
send something.

540
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,160
And then that same day or the next day I would send comments back and then another week.

541
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,520
And it seemed like they were overwhelmed.

542
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,520
Now I understand.

543
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,920
Okay, it wasn't just email.

544
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,260
People were trying to work with Seb directly and Seb was trying to work with Cyril to

545
00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:43,360
get a SIP in.

546
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,600
That's exactly what it felt like too.

547
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:52,760
Seeing some of the other SIPs, like the sandbox ambassador SIP or the, maybe the blockchain,

548
00:34:52,760 --> 00:35:00,680
like some of the really, the blockchain events where some of the studios who were, who've

549
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,760
been a part of the sandbox for a long time, probably was working through Seb and through

550
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:13,480
the, their, their contacts at the sandbox game because they have project managers, like

551
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,680
account managers for them.

552
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,880
So I can see how like there's many different ways that Cyril and the Dow admin team were

553
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,600
getting hit for these SIPs.

554
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:31,000
And it felt, it felt disorganized.

555
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:38,320
And now they're moving, they moved to a type form and the type form seems, I mean, it's

556
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,320
a type form.

557
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,120
So we'll go straight to whoever you hit the send button.

558
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:49,040
And yeah, so he's about to talk about the funnel.

559
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,720
E-commerce is like an acquisition funnel.

560
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,760
You have one funnel and you go in there on the forum, you test your idea and we look

561
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,760
at it and how we see, we're trying to assess whether the community likes your idea, which

562
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,280
is a conversation in itself, you know, how we do that.

563
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,600
And then we invite you to write a SIP and there's always one way to do a SIP and when

564
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,320
we invite you to do a SIP, you'll be guided through a series of questions.

565
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,760
So even without the...

566
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:15,680
And I went over that, which was Send Out Podcast number 35.

567
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,240
So we go over those questions at the end there where we do the interview process or the,

568
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,560
the rehearsal of the actual type form.

569
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:31,160
I go through all of the questions here and you can see what is that's being asked.

570
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,000
That's Send Out 35.

571
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,920
The intervention yet of the admin team and the project management team is not in charge

572
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,920
of SIP duration.

573
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,320
Like all of these questionnaires, and I think there's like 20 or 25 questions in there,

574
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,960
is already in itself guiding the hand of the author, making that, you know, education piece.

575
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,800
This is what we think a good SIP looks like.

576
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,280
And this is the question you should ask yourself.

577
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,200
And that's why we ask you those questions right now in the questionnaire, in the type

578
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,200
form.

579
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,360
And the second point was also about efficiency on our end.

580
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,760
Like receiving SIPs for multiple, you know, entry points was making it hard for us to

581
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,120
keep track on all of them.

582
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,200
And now with this whole process, it goes into database directly, you know, it's much more

583
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,200
easy to search through it.

584
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,640
You know, we also streamlined the way we handle those SIPs, which eventually will means more

585
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,040
SIPs gets processed per minute.

586
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,960
We're not per minute yet, but you know what I mean?

587
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,240
Like our cadence increase, which is the whole idea, right?

588
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:19,240
That's great.

589
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:20,240
That is the whole idea.

590
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,800
And I'm happy to hear that that that Cyril is very aware of that.

591
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,280
And that's what he's aiming for.

592
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,280
Efficiency and effectiveness.

593
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,040
So yeah, those have been noticeably hard to achieve in a lot of DAO experiments.

594
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,280
I like that we keep coming back to the word experiment because it always feels like a

595
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,080
grand experiment of just trying to do this right.

596
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,160
So as far as DAO admin team goes, I'm going to make a little step back and say to the

597
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,840
community here, I think we're probably the most transparent and vocal with our faces

598
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,960
out in front and of any DAO that I've seen out there.

599
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,440
So I might disagree with with Kunta on that one.

600
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,600
There are DAOs that have published their entire roadmap, their entire organizational structure.

601
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,200
Bankless DAO comes to mind now called Black Flag DAO.

602
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:05,840
I did a podcast episode with them, I think episode number 48, 47.

603
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,000
Sandow 4847.

604
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:15,520
And Apecoin DAO publishes who all of their their foundation people are.

605
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,640
A lot of different DAOs are transparent in different ways.

606
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,080
I wouldn't say that our DAO is the most transparent.

607
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:27,040
Now that we're at episode number two for digging in the sand, we are a lot more transparent

608
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,280
than than I've seen up until now.

609
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,640
The big thing that I noticed that we've done that I haven't seen of other DAOs is SIP one

610
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:46,280
or two published the the DAO Constitution and the DAO Foundation articles of association,

611
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,120
the memorandum of association.

612
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,200
They I have not seen another DAO do that.

613
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,400
So let's take a look.

614
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,200
It was down on Sandow.

615
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,040
I'm tripping all over myself.

616
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,040
It is SIP number.

617
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,000
I think it was SIP number one.

618
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,000
Right.

619
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:11,320
At the very bottom here, there's the elections there and the appendices, the Constitution.

620
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:22,600
So you get to see the Constitution also called the bylaws and for SIP number two and three,

621
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,960
you got to see the actual foundation articles of association and the memorandum of association.

622
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,840
So here they are right here.

623
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,680
I'm going to be doing a podcast episode on them soon.

624
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:40,080
I'm about 50% of the way through my analysis of all of this.

625
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,600
But I haven't seen another DAO release these.

626
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,840
This first one I've seen who have released this.

627
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,920
That's pretty cool.

628
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,800
But other than that, we didn't really know who the key players were.

629
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:57,480
We didn't know who was even part of the admin team and nor the foundation.

630
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,480
The SIP number two did say it.

631
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,520
The foundation is chaired by Michael Robinson.

632
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:06,520
Don't know who he is.

633
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,880
I don't have a LinkedIn for him.

634
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,840
I've been able to find out really exactly who he is.

635
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,080
But apparently he's very important in the process.

636
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:21,040
So it's kind of unclear how everything fits together as of right now.

637
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:26,840
And up until doing the same with Kunta and hearing Cyril's thoughts, very unclear how

638
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,040
everything was structured, how everything was going together.

639
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:42,400
So in the past, I'd say three, four weeks that the transparency really started with

640
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,800
episode number one here, November 17th.

641
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,720
We were not as transparent as a lot of other DAOs.

642
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:55,480
But now we are quickly closing that distance and I'm very happy to see that.

643
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,240
Where I can be commenting on stuff like this instead of spending time Google searching

644
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,840
who people are and making connections and sometimes getting it wrong.

645
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,640
Like I did, I did a little bit of wrong of Sandow podcast, I think 30, or the Sandbox

646
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:23,960
Dow where I did those episodes on, there it is 34 here where I was trying to figure out

647
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,040
what the relationship was between everyone.

648
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,240
I was wasn't necessarily guessing I did a lot of research and all of these things, but

649
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,240
I do a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of research to do that.

650
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:38,760
Whereas the Dow admin team could have just told me these things, but he's told us these

651
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:39,760
things.

652
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,680
So here I am stepping through the process of what I thought was happening and I got

653
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,960
some of it wrong.

654
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,400
But I did get, I think a lot of it right.

655
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,880
Just the sort of transparency that I had to figure out for our for myself, just to understand

656
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,880
what was going on.

657
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:03,360
But Kunta and Cyril here, Cyril here are doing that now they are disclosing revealing

658
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,280
and being transparent and I love it.

659
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,440
Absolutely love it.

660
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,840
Hopefully this this new and increased level of transparency and communication from our

661
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,000
team is appreciated by the community here like it is Kunta.

662
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,040
It is.

663
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,720
We are trying to like stepping back out of my rewind back to what you were saying here.

664
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:25,960
What's these what these SIPs should be looking like is making clear improvements to the sandbox

665
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,280
gaming ecosystem.

666
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,060
So when we see that these SIPs are coming through consistently with high quality and

667
00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:33,800
better quantity, that quorum is consistently met, that the SIPs aren't extractive, that

668
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,760
they're consistently making improvements to the sandbox gaming ecosystem, that Dow centric

669
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,580
ideas are being channeled through the Dow admin team so that we can make those effective

670
00:42:41,580 --> 00:42:42,580
and efficient changes.

671
00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:46,760
Those are those are the kinds of benchmarks that we're looking at for a progressive decentralization.

672
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,760
Yeah.

673
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,320
And to the experiment piece, I mean, I mean, you know, Kazen is dear to my heart and the

674
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,920
principle of, you know, iteration and experimentation.

675
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:54,920
Yeah.

676
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,440
And the fact that the Dow is in a in a legal like gray area, even though we've put, you

677
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,640
know, a foundation wrapper around it and we're doing everything we can to make sure this

678
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,040
is, you know, as by the book as possible.

679
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,400
Like I was saying last time, there's no school on how to build a Dow.

680
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,800
So the best way to build the best possible Dow is to be able to experiment, fail and

681
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:10,800
learn from our mistakes.

682
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,400
And as soon as we find something that works, we know iterate upon it.

683
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:14,400
For example.

684
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,820
That sounds a lot like like a like a program manager, like a product manager would say

685
00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:26,080
make mistakes, fail fast, but do better and iterate on that on that so that you can succeed

686
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,760
over and over again that that Kaizen spirit that that I'm sure they'll say here in this

687
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,800
episode later on.

688
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:39,560
But ultimately, that legal gray area that he spoke on, I think that's referring to kind

689
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:47,400
of the ways foundation companies and the Cayman Islands and and regulation laws across all

690
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:56,560
the different countries, regulatory agencies like the SEC or there could be a lot of different

691
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,900
things that they're referring to.

692
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:05,600
So when I do my episode on the Constitution and on the Cayman Islands business law, I

693
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,200
read all of their business law and the Cayman Islands to figure out what exactly the foundation

694
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,440
company was, how it works.

695
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,280
And that's an episode I'll be doing here in the future.

696
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,400
But I think that's that legal gray area that Sarah here is talking about.

697
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,280
And to me, I don't think it's a legal gray area.

698
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,800
I just think it's an area where it doesn't have a lot of case law around it, as in people

699
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,480
haven't been suing each other too much over this yet.

700
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:38,640
They have a little bit, but that case law is really helpful where people judge disputes.

701
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:44,020
And in those disputes, you create new laws and new rules to better the atmosphere.

702
00:44:44,020 --> 00:44:50,440
So it's not necessarily a gray area, so much as it is an untested area.

703
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:59,600
So like the United States sued a Dow in California, I think it was there was an another Dow that

704
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:05,740
just got sued by like a class action lawsuit by one of its members sued the Dow.

705
00:45:05,740 --> 00:45:14,440
So these things help bolster Dow regulations and laws so that people feel like it's less

706
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,840
gray, which I think they're saying is it's like the Wild West where it's unproven or

707
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:26,280
untested and then more stable, like where you can make a business now in your country,

708
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,400
wherever you live.

709
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,400
And those business laws are much more concrete and real because it's been tested.

710
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,480
It's been proven itself and it's resilient.

711
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,680
So I think that's what they're talking about here.

712
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,320
But I'm sure as they do more episodes, we'll find out.

713
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:48,360
One thing that I think doesn't necessarily work today is our budget categories.

714
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,640
I don't think these are the best categories you could have.

715
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,640
These are categories that we've designed on the back of our head kind of replicate some

716
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,080
of the categories we thought the community will gravitate towards or replicate the way

717
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,680
the sandbox is organized as a company.

718
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,680
But it doesn't necessarily work.

719
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,720
So for 2025, there will be a new SIP that will be, you know, every year there will be

720
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:09,480
a SIP about the budget because every year the sandbox will be making a donation to the

721
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:10,480
Dow.

722
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:11,840
So as part of this new year.

723
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:19,280
I was surprised to hear him say that, that the categories and the categories he's talking

724
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,240
about are under the dashboard.

725
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:28,680
If you scroll down, you'll see here, SIP initiatives, LiveOps, game content, other operations,

726
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,480
staking, sandbox for good platform, NFT.

727
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,980
So here, here's all the categories and the new SIP process took some of these categories

728
00:46:38,980 --> 00:46:40,480
out from being able to propose.

729
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,160
So like staking, you can't propose a SIP for staking anymore.

730
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:49,760
You can't propose a SIP for I think LiveOps.

731
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,800
And you can't do one for, I think four of them.

732
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,480
There's four of them you can't do anymore.

733
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,240
But here they are.

734
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:01,200
So he's saying that these categories, he doesn't think they work.

735
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:06,680
And okay, I don't, I neither agree or disagree on that.

736
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:15,720
I think that they're fine, but he sees something there that isn't working.

737
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:17,760
There will be a new SIP that says these are the proposed category.

738
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:18,760
And I want to do this a bit differently.

739
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,360
I really want to involve the community too.

740
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,440
So we're going to make suggestions.

741
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,440
This is what we think is best.

742
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,000
I really want to engage the community more.

743
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,920
I think back to your first episode when we were talking about the launch of this DAO

744
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,400
and how some of these things were rushed because we had to start from somewhere.

745
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,520
Now that we've done it for the second iteration of budget, we're going to make a proposal

746
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,960
that we were really going to take the time to iterate with the community.

747
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,360
Do you think this makes sense?

748
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,200
Because some of these budgets today are buckets that are reserved from the sandbox, for example,

749
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,160
and like LiveOps or staking and whatever.

750
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,660
I actually did not know that.

751
00:47:44,660 --> 00:47:48,960
I did not know that LiveOps and staking were reserved for the sandbox.

752
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,960
That makes a lot of sense.

753
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Now that I understand how things came down and the resistance I got in different stuff,

754
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,880
different SIPs, I think now, yeah, I just didn't know any of this.

755
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,480
If I had known that some of these were reserved, then I would have known not to select them

756
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:11,480
in my SIP drafts that I sent to the DAO admin team.

757
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,080
This doesn't necessarily make sense for the community to have access to those categories

758
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,640
because they cannot make a SIP that, you know, tap into those categories.

759
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,640
So why having them in the first place?

760
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,180
So we're trying to have all of those conversations.

761
00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:21,200
That's a great question.

762
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:27,600
And some of my frustration and not knowing why they took away those SIPs, what happened

763
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:36,280
in episode 35 here, where I was trying to figure out, yeah, in the new SIP process,

764
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,280
where was it?

765
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,120
We were talking about the rules.

766
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,960
There are categories.

767
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,680
One of these, I go over the categories.

768
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:51,280
I note that those categories are no longer accessible.

769
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,280
There's some around here.

770
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,280
There you go.

771
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,280
Missing four of nine categories.

772
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:02,600
So 52% of the budget was now ineligible here.

773
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,240
And see if I can get to it.

774
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:13,680
The difference between disclosure of close family spouse, appreciate some clarity.

775
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,400
And so then we move along down the guidelines checklist item number four.

776
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,280
We're missing four of the nine categories, which accounts to roughly 52%.

777
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:33,560
So please clarify what's supposed to happen there because it's not clear right now what's

778
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,080
going on with those four categories.

779
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,400
By the reading of the definition of things, I think that means we're no longer allowed

780
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:46,360
to apply for the four that I mentioned earlier, which is over 52% of the budget.

781
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,480
So that's a lot of sand budget that's going away.

782
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,560
So where does it go then?

783
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,440
So that was only a month ago, episode 35.

784
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,360
And there just wasn't any clear explanation as to why they cut four of those nine categories

785
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,560
that you used to be able to submit SIPs for.

786
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:10,040
Now episode two, we have that answer that they looks like some of them, if not all of

787
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:16,900
those four that they cut from being able to SIP for money.

788
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:21,960
It seems like some of them were reserved only for the sandbox game company.

789
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:22,960
Okay.

790
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,600
Thank you for explaining that.

791
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,440
I just wish we had known that sooner and then I wouldn't have been so harsh on some of my

792
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,440
criticisms.

793
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,680
But I think that's a good way to think about that and think about the future as well, improvement

794
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:36,680
in the iteration process.

795
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Yeah, that's great.

796
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,920
You also went into some of the community concerns that we want to jump into on our future recording

797
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:43,920
here.

798
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,040
So just to give a little preview of what's ahead and a reminder of what we've said in

799
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,680
episode one, some of the additional concerns that we want to wrap together into our next

800
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,600
quick discussion for you is going to be the special council and advisory board, their

801
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,200
selection, what their roles entail.

802
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,200
Some of them are compensated.

803
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,880
How just staking in general and how the staked lands and sand are how we're making advancements

804
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,760
towards including them in voting power or VP.

805
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,360
What you already mentioned, the Dow operating in this legal gray area and what that landscape

806
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,520
looks like, how we're navigating it, the language barrier that we're working to overcome

807
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,040
and what that looks like both in our marketing of the Dow in general, as well as in our internal

808
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,920
communications like on the forum and stuff and how we're trying to overcome that because

809
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,480
this is a global community to the fullest.

810
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,920
And what low participation looks like and how we can bring that back up and also how

811
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,800
that's partially that's everybody's responsibility.

812
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,520
If you're part of this, if you hold sand, if you hold land or a member of this, if you

813
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,400
want to improve it, bring in those other sand and landholders that you chat with online

814
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,960
and tell them that they can be part of this too.

815
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,400
So that's that's on all of us to bring up our.

816
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:37,760
It is, but until they see more, they've been Sam fan people until they see more of the

817
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:44,800
sandbox Dow transparency and more of what you're doing right now, content and zero until

818
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,280
they see more of that.

819
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,600
I think a lot of people are still going to be skeptical to bring other people in.

820
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,240
I'm bringing people in just because I'm bought it.

821
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:58,440
I believe that we're going to end up in a in a good place, transparent and disclosure.

822
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,360
I believe we will get more of this.

823
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:06,480
I have every reason to believe now that serial is a force for good and that the Dow admin

824
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,840
team that they're trying to do as best they can with time and resources that they have

825
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,840
there, that they're trying to improve and iterate on success.

826
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,280
And it's episodes like these that help me see that.

827
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:23,920
So I have no problem bringing in other people, but a lot of people who have left the Dow,

828
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:29,200
who have stopped caring about the Dow, they probably need a little bit more convincing.

829
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:35,060
They need to see more of this before they risk their reputation with others to bring

830
00:52:35,060 --> 00:52:42,740
them back or just risk them feeling like they're wasting their time with something that doesn't

831
00:52:42,740 --> 00:52:46,240
really grant them a voice, which is what a lot of people said.

832
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:51,060
And we saw that in episode one for digging in the sand that I that I responded back to

833
00:52:51,060 --> 00:53:00,720
an episode 50, a send out 50 that that really showed the results that a lot of people were

834
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:06,000
saying a lot of people were saying things like I didn't feel heard, felt rushed, the

835
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,600
sips felt rushed and and I don't think that my voice matters and all sorts of things like

836
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,800
that.

837
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,160
Episodes like these that they're doing with serial and Kunta that is turning that around,

838
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,800
it's really showing that the team does care.

839
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,440
They are listening.

840
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:25,440
So I really like that.

841
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,960
So those are some of the things we're going to lump into our next conversation.

842
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,160
But where else do we go with this?

843
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,960
We're tying together right now, progressive decentralization, the SIP process and the

844
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,880
influence of the Dow admin team and how everybody just wants money, which is something I can

845
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,300
totally relate to because I'll tell you what I want money to planning with my wife trying

846
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:41,760
to think about how we're going to afford a vacation for, you know, Q1.

847
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:42,920
And it's always all about money.

848
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:47,800
So how we manage that in a non-extractive way, we have reviewed some of the benchmarks that

849
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:48,800
we want to look at.

850
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,160
There's no formal benchmarks are not being recorded.

851
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,160
There's no metrics anywhere.

852
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,720
There are things that we're all going to sense, not just the admin team, but you guys, the

853
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:55,320
community at large is going to sense all of these things as well.

854
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,760
And we want your feedback, the quality and quantity of SIPs when there's less curation

855
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,760
involved.

856
00:53:58,760 --> 00:53:59,760
Quorum is consistently being met.

857
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,360
There's a framework in place that's functioning on how operations are carried out, which,

858
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,760
you know, Cyril just admitted, you know, like we're learning as we go and some of these

859
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:07,760
things, too.

860
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,000
But that framework needs to be in place, a self-governing community with inclusive,

861
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,040
responsive and responsible leaders that are stepping up a non-extractive principle in our

862
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,040
community.

863
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,400
That's just where everybody sees that the SIPs being advanced aren't about just getting

864
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:19,400
as much sand as you can.

865
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,000
They're about making as much impact as you can, which means talking about value in the

866
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,000
SIPs and how you're going to get the best deals.

867
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,360
I'm thinking like financially in a financially sound way, like business minded.

868
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,360
That's going to be important.

869
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,360
That's part of self-sustainability.

870
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,920
There's also been communication on the forums about how are we going to bring money back

871
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,520
into the DAO?

872
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:36,880
That's got to be something that's on the horizon, too.

873
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,880
So there needs to be channels, revenue streams opened up to bring some money back into the

874
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,280
DAO for long term sustainability.

875
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:42,280
These are important benchmarks.

876
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,320
There needs to be clear improvements out of all the SIPs for the sandbox game.

877
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,660
The game needs to be improved.

878
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:49,560
We all know that the creators, the ambassadors, the players, the investors, everybody has

879
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,680
pointed out where the improvements need to be made.

880
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,080
Now it's part of the DAO's job to figure out what those are and to propose solutions

881
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:56,080
to them.

882
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:57,080
Yeah.

883
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,120
And to your point about platforms, it's also a challenge in itself because I think this

884
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,940
is like where we encourage people to make suggestions because the players and the landowners

885
00:55:03,940 --> 00:55:06,720
and the creators is our community.

886
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:07,720
But also we haven't figured out.

887
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:12,820
Well, I just said that the creators and the players are our community.

888
00:55:12,820 --> 00:55:16,920
For a while, I think a lot of people didn't feel like that was true.

889
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:22,640
I think a lot of people felt like the DAO admin team didn't believe the creators and

890
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:27,520
the players were its community, that they had just given themselves power and they were

891
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:34,040
going to do this and that and just give the community something to do while the DAO admin

892
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,000
team really ran the DAO.

893
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,280
I think a lot of people felt that way.

894
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,960
I think they still feel that way.

895
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,440
Some people do.

896
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:48,000
And where Kunta said it's our responsibility as well and Sanfam to communicate with each

897
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:53,240
other, to DAO, to do DAOing together.

898
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:57,840
I agree with him that I think it is part of our responsibility to do that.

899
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:09,880
And it's important that Kunta and Cyril continue to disclose and reveal their thoughts so they

900
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:15,600
can turn that negative cynicism and skepticism around.

901
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:22,360
Without a way, to be honest with you and the listeners, to really make it work with the

902
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:23,360
sandbox.

903
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,920
The sandbox already has a team of professionals that is working on the backlog, that is working

904
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,120
on improving the game, that is doing all of those things.

905
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,600
And when we come to them with our request that comes from the community, it feels like

906
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,280
this is something parachuted on their desk and they're like, what the hell do I do with

907
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,280
this?

908
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,280
Because I already have a job, I already have a backlog.

909
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,240
I already have stakeholders breathing down my neck and telling me what to do.

910
00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:40,800
And I'm already struggling to negotiate with all of these different stakeholders because

911
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,640
in the eyes of these different stakeholders, their stuff is priority number one.

912
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:45,280
But I have to address those.

913
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,720
And now the DAO is another stakeholder on top of it.

914
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:49,440
So how do we make it work?

915
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,440
What's the best way?

916
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,000
I completely understand this.

917
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:58,880
I'm a program manager and I have, I think, over 60 stakeholders, each one with a priority,

918
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:03,360
each one believing that their priority is number one.

919
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:09,440
And I completely understand how the sandbox team feels on this.

920
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:14,320
And now we're adding the DAO, which is a bunch of community and sometimes can be seen as

921
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,640
like a mob vote.

922
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,000
And how do they integrate that?

923
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,240
Well, I guess we're about to find out.

924
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:30,520
If my SIP number 16 makes quorum, it will be entered into the sandbox team's backlog.

925
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,040
And we'll see how it gets treated then at that point.

926
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,020
And it's a zero dollar SIP.

927
00:57:37,020 --> 00:57:42,920
So it's not going to take any resources except time and effort of the sandbox team's product

928
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,400
team.

929
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:52,000
So here, Serial is talking about how they seem to be getting pushback from the sandbox

930
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:59,680
team about the DAO wanting to put things on the product team's backlog at the sandbox

931
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:04,200
game company, which is a separate thing than the DAO.

932
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,560
So product team has all these things that they have to do to do Game Maker, VoxEdit,

933
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,800
and the game client and the launcher.

934
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,520
And then here comes the DAO saying, no, no, no, we want you to do window resizing.

935
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:21,160
Or no, no, we want you to put in an in-game filter and kind of disrupt the product backlog

936
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:29,560
and the flow for what the DAO, that the sandbox team, that product team is doing.

937
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:30,800
I get that.

938
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,840
I get why that there's a little bit of pushback there.

939
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:40,400
The good news is that Seb has said many times where he wants the DAO to have a say in the

940
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:41,400
game's backlog.

941
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,120
So I have a feeling that's going to go okay.

942
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:50,680
We're going to find a way to compromise between us and them in the end because Ser Seb, who's

943
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:58,320
the co-founder and chief operating officer of the sandbox game company, he I think is

944
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:03,800
in alignment with what my SIP right now is doing for an in-game filter where the community

945
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,360
has said, oh my gosh, we want this.

946
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,400
We really want this.

947
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:15,520
And check out Sandow 51, so just the one I did a couple of days ago for a read through

948
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,520
of my SIP on that.

949
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:19,960
We have a placeholder in our backlog.

950
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,760
We agree on some sort of SLA.

951
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:22,760
All of these discussions.

952
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:28,720
I think SLA is like a service something agreement.

953
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,280
I think.

954
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:32,280
Yeah.

955
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,040
We're trying to figure this out behind the scenes.

956
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:37,040
And there's no magic one.

957
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,320
There's no like a magic formula to do this.

958
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,800
This is all like service level agreement.

959
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,880
A contract between, I'll show you.

960
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,400
Service level agreement is a contract between a service provider and a customer that defines

961
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,760
the level of service to be provided, how performance will be measured and what will happen if the

962
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,640
agreement is not met.

963
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:58,640
Trying to narrow it for the moment.

964
00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:59,640
Yeah.

965
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,560
That's really awesome extra context to give everybody.

966
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:02,560
Just putting these things in place.

967
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,780
You're talking about a billion dollar plus company with employees across the globe, amazing

968
01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:10,680
teams of engineers that are already doing really hard work and we're dropping more work on

969
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:11,680
them through the down.

970
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:12,680
And hopefully.

971
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,460
Now that I completely understand that.

972
01:00:14,460 --> 01:00:17,400
And I think that's a fair, valid criticism.

973
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,360
So I'd like to find a way for it to be to be built for as long as Seb is willing to

974
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:23,960
ask the product team to do that.

975
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:29,360
And as long as willing as the community is to wisely do that.

976
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,880
I think we're going to find a pretty good middle ground.

977
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,480
Like we just talked about, we just spent 20 minutes, half hour talking about how we want

978
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:35,480
to drop even more work on them.

979
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:36,480
So how is that going to be?

980
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,480
How's that going to function?

981
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,560
So there are challenges on the back end of implementing all of this that aren't also

982
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,440
just readily acknowledged or even visible to the community at large.

983
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,640
So thanks for making that apparent as well.

984
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,680
I think we really hit everything we want to talk about here.

985
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,120
I don't want to drag this conversation on.

986
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,760
We've said it, we've summarized it already.

987
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,600
If anybody has any questions, thoughts, any ongoing concerns, go back to episode one.

988
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,040
I scrolled through all the responses to the poll.

989
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,560
You can hit pause on it and look at them yourself.

990
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:01,560
Drop any comments, questions.

991
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:02,560
We really want to be here.

992
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:03,560
Everybody is heard.

993
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,440
That was a common concern raised.

994
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,560
I think people's comments on that poll were coming from their experience months ago, but

995
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,000
now it is almost December 2024 and you are heard.

996
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,360
So you guys all know where to reach me.

997
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,640
You know where to how to jump on the forums.

998
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:16,640
We're here for you.

999
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:17,640
So let's do this together.

1000
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,640
What more do we got?

1001
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:19,640
Any final comments, Cyril?

1002
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:20,640
No, looking forward for episode three.

1003
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:21,640
That's it.

1004
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,960
We're going to have one final more of these discussions here where we tackle those topics

1005
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:24,960
I told you guys about before.

1006
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:25,960
I'm reaching out to our delegates.

1007
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,960
We're going to do an episode with some short video clips from them that highlight what

1008
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,600
they're listening to and how they want to hear from you.

1009
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:34,600
And that's it.

1010
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:35,600
We're going to sign off here.

1011
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:36,600
Hope we get some good comments, more good conversation.

1012
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,640
Jump into the forums if you're not in there.

1013
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,360
Send your friends over to X, follow, engage, subscribe, like the YouTube channel.

1014
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,760
We're really grateful for everybody out there and excited to be doing this with you.

1015
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:45,760
So that's it.

1016
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:46,760
We're going to wrap it up.

1017
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:47,760
I love you all.

1018
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:48,760
Sam, Sam, keep coming back.

1019
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:49,760
Cheers.

1020
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:50,760
Keep digging in that sand.

1021
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:51,760
Right on.

1022
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:52,760
That's nice.

1023
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:53,760
Keep digging in that sand, he says.

1024
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:54,760
Cool.

1025
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:55,760
That was a good episode.

1026
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,760
That's a good episode.

1027
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,560
I really like that.

1028
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:08,440
So yeah, they talked about progressive decentralization, how everyone wants money.

1029
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,440
Cyril talked about the legal gray area and then they went into the budget categories

1030
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,200
and why they reduced it.

1031
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:19,760
They also talked about how the TSB has a backlog and the Dow is trying to contribute to that

1032
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,720
backlog where I think that's a valid criticism.

1033
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,760
Seb said that he wants that to happen.

1034
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,280
So we'll find the middle ground there.

1035
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,880
And yeah, great episode.

1036
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:34,160
I didn't have any community questions that I haven't already answered and I have no open

1037
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,280
topics I need to jump into.

1038
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:44,320
We're on episode number 52 and then episode number 53.

1039
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:50,320
I'm not sure yet which one that'll be, but hopefully it's another delegate interview.

1040
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:55,600
For SandboxBases, be on Discord, be on SandboxDow forums, on Twitter.

1041
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:00,320
There's some hashtags here that you can look through.

1042
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:08,440
And then on YouTube, there's a SandboxDow page, there's also LancerYT, which is what

1043
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,360
you're listening to right now on the Sandow podcast, SandFamCafe.

1044
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,840
On Mondays is MogaverseHall, on Saturdays is Bulls on the Block, Monday through Friday

1045
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:22,800
is Coffee with Captain, and on Tuesdays is Whale Members.

1046
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,120
See if there is someone to raid.

1047
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,440
Or is it just me?

1048
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:35,240
Oh, it looks like there are a number of people on right now.

1049
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,040
Let's raid the sandbox game, the actual sandbox game.

1050
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:42,000
All right.

1051
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,360
Thank you all for your time.

1052
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:54,400
Today was a reaction to the official SandboxDow podcast called Digging in the Sand, episode

1053
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,400
two, they talked a lot about progressive decentralization.

1054
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:07,200
I'm Lancer, and yeah, keep digging in the sand.

1055
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:24,800
Thanks, SandFam.