All right, Sandow Podcast number 43. Today we have Old One, who is a very familiar face
in the sandbox ecosystem. Welcome back Old One for the second time on Sandow Podcast.
How are you doing?
Hey everyone, I'm happy to be here again. And I'm here to discuss about the recently
happening about the sandbox dynamic. I'm getting excited.
Yeah, I am very excited about the delegation system and all the things that are now available
to us when we hope that quorum is a thing of the past. And today we're going to learn
about one such delegate, Old One, who, as you'll see, is very familiar to the sandbox
style and learn about how Old One wants to approach voting and if Old One is the right
delegate for you.
So our scope of the talk is a meet and greet. It's also a learning opportunity. And our
disclaimer is that we do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox style foundation.
We are not your financial or legal advisors and nothing we say is to be taken as financial
or legal advice. When I say the word SIP, we mean sandbox improvement proposal. When
we say the word DAO, we mean decentralized autonomous organization. And when we say the
word SanFam, we mean the sandbox community who participates in people, product, and purpose
of the sandbox ecosystem. That ecosystem is divided up into people, product, purpose.
And on the people side, specifically for this episode, we're focused on the DAO delegate,
of which Mocha, excuse me, Old One is one of the 12 that was just appointed and approved.
So we began on May 28th when the DAO was announced via a medium article. And then September 10th
is when the sandbox style opened up its delegation applications. November 13th, just five days
ago, 12 delegates were announced. A quick reminder, scoreboard and the checkbook have
not changed. The DAO admin team is hard at work to put the delegation system into place.
So the SIPs will not be resumed until November 22nd, which is later on this week, per one
of Cyril's posts. So like I said, November 13th, five days ago, the 12 delegates were
announced and today's episode is Old One. And when you look at him on the delegation
site, it's oldone.eth, O-L-D-W-O-N dot E-T-H. Old One, welcome back. And some background
carryover from episode six. Episode six is when Old One was first on where we interviewed
Old One to learn about Mocha CN delegation and how they voted and what was the possibility
to earn their vote. Now Old One is back as a delegate and Old One's background is in
gaming branding and product design based in southern China, helped set up a web three
business with Lulu land in 2021 and Old One's partner is in New York. If you're interested
in all the details surrounding that, go back to episode six where you can see that in depth.
But Old One, how would you like to expand your background? Please introduce yourself
to the voters.
Yeah, first, I like the way you describe and introduce all the basic concepts of the web
three things like DAO and SIP. I like it. And yeah, we have been spending around like
three years or even four years in the sandbox, building experiences, developing customer
tours. We are pretty much focused on the metaverse things and currently also trying to explore
a new business about the toys mixing with NFC technologies, which can be which can do
some like a bundle and an FTE, physical bundle and FTE, these kind of things. And you can
find more information on my Twitter and I'm pretty excited about the improvement of the
sandbox about the delegates everything.
Yeah. Yeah. And they call you call it block toys, don't you?
Yeah, you can call it break toys, block toys, like on hoist. It's not like a Lego, but
yeah.
Gotcha. And so NFC tech where you can sand and NFC and then it will unlock an NFT bundle.
Yeah. Right on. Excellent. And so when, when did you become SanFam? What would you say?
I think very early in that you see that I think it's 2021 around July something when
the XC infinity is very loud at that moment. And I do play some XC infinity. I got many
cans and after, after that, I think I spent all my money from XC infinity in the sandbox
land. And at the time it becomes SanFam. I also start like become a creator in that time.
Gotcha. So first you were a gamer and then you became a creator.
Yeah, because I'm a designer. I'm kind of like this thing, like the Voxel.
And speaking of designer, if you didn't know, old one is the co-founder, the creator of
Lulu land, which if you, if you recognize that name, you should because Lulu land, if
you look on the metaverse map and everyone can see it on my screen here, right at zero
zero, just go north a little bit and look what's right there. Lulu land, just north
of zero zero with many, many experiences. You can see a few of them there right now,
but Lulu land has been, uh, I, I played Lulu land when I first joined in 2021 as well.
And Lulu land has over 500 assets, many, it says four experiences just for Lulu land 2021,
but how many experiences would you say you've developed at this time?
I don't know. It should be around 10 or even more because also helping from clients to
develop their experiences like a Metaria, like, uh, the HK field, like the Hong Kong
symphony thing, metaverse symphony, you know, mocha, various, all this. And we have some
very, very tiny games, uh, maybe not on the map yet. I don't know if still there like
ice cream jumping, blah, blah thing.
Yeah. Lulu land is, is a very well known developer and you've created some really cool experiences
that I think almost everyone has played if they played the sandbox. So there should be
no, no, um, no unfamiliarity with your contributions to the sandbox as a creator. And would you
say that, like you said earlier, you, that you became a creator, um, were you always
a creator type or did you fall into it after gaming?
I think I'm always a creator type. Yeah. And the, why I like sandbox is not really 100%
about gaming. It's still about how easy it is to create something in it. Like with smoke
so added, you don't really need to be a 3d, 3d professional to, to, to do that. But, uh,
everything's just easy. You can easy to start and then it is easy to start with.
Yeah. Especially have you been keeping track of magic palette and how that's going to happen?
It was great idea. You know, that, uh, we were, we want something when we build the
first experience in the sandbox, but now it's brought out by, by, by sent us, right?
Yeah. That I same rush and they just, they just entered into beta and they're very nearly
done with being able to launch it with everyone.
Oh, so that, that should make your creative flow process so much easier because you can
create, you can create in Vox edit and then import it into the browser. Then that browser
gets imported into game maker. I did a podcast with Pepe on it and it was super easy. It
was so easy to make so much easier than single block placing in game maker. You can then
mass block, create and Vox edit and then import it. And there's like a bridge that connects
it all the way to game maker. And it's, it's so fast.
I mean, it's next time maybe you can put three of us together to have further discussion
because we even had something very similar called pinnacle. It's like a module with module
design way of putting all the models together to do very fast construction in the sandbox
game maker. We can share that part with Swiss.
Yeah, I'd have no, I'd have no problem at all. I'll connect the two of you together.
Good. That's cool. So I would, my next question was, is what has been your involvement in
the sandbox community? But I've already kind of spilled the beans on that. I've spoiled
it. But I pulled the quote from lululand.world, which is what we talked about in episode six,
is lululand, it said it wants to be the entertainment destination within the sandbox.
Since we last talked, has that changed? Are you still, is that still the primary mission
of lululand within the sandbox?
I think we just, it's not really changed. But if we see something changed, that's the
destination within the metaverse, maybe, maybe not only about sandbox, because you know,
we are also doing the physical toys. And we're also like a partner, working together with
some more partners like mochaverse, like maybe Apecon and maybe blah blah. Yeah, so we're
finding chances to grow bigger.
Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. And let's now get into the actual delegation part. What
was your motivation to apply to be a delegate?
Oh, that's a good one. You know that, first of all, I think we had a Chinese owner, Chinese
landowner group, which got over 500 people. And all these people, they're heavy buyers.
If you got the data from sandbox, you will find out, okay, the Chinese really owns a
lot of land. But to be honest, to be honest, that the price of the land is keep falling.
So all these people are trying to find some chances. And to see what the future is the
sandbox to see what we can do to improve it. So I think that is the reason I am here, because
I want to be a communication channel for the Chinese landowners with the community. Yeah,
something like that.
Yeah. Yep. Landowners. No, I think that's very, very consistent with what we began with
some time ago on an episode six, where you this started even then, you were you were
not only just found having founded the Mocha CN, but you wanted to be a voice within the
community to be that bridge between English speaking and in French speaking and the Chinese
speaking communities. And I've been watching that a lot. And it seems like there is a I
don't know about a separation, but it seems like there is like a language barrier. And
it's difficult to Yeah. So what's your idea of how to to change that and prove it? Or
what do you want to do there?
It's, I can say it's pretty hard, but it's just need someone to keep working on it. It's
like doing all the translation, maybe organize meetings, organize bilingual AMAs, kind of
bring all these people together to have a chance to know each other to understand the
culture. I think it's not really only the the language problem is more about the culture
problem. And what I can say is matters is really good place to to to build this connection,
you know, before we have an experience called a love is forever. And we used to organize
events on it. Some even wedding events. Yeah, the first wedding event. That's right. Honey.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. People just Yeah, yeah, you know, people just drawing and sometimes
he can communicate. They don't really need words to communicate. They can easily build
up the trust trust and then they find chances and to talk. And yeah, I think that is that
is the beautiful part of the matter. I think.
Yeah. And, and tell me about the the culture thing because I, I like, like many others,
I can read about the Chinese culture, but I don't really understand it to the degree
that I could ever hope to like you do. What is it about the the Chinese culture that we
can learn and understand and grow with?
Oh my god, this is big one. Oh, you're right. That's that's an unfair question. It's hard
to answer. How can we put that way?
Sorry, sorry. How can we do it within the sandbox? Maybe that's more fair question.
Yeah, yeah. For example, based on the landowners, I think that the Chinese landowners treat
everything in a different perspective because I think some foreign landowners, their landowners,
maybe they don't own very, they don't own a lot of lands, but they are landowners and
they also create games and they are also players. But in the Chinese community, this situation
is different. Some heavy bear, heavy buyers of the lands, they just treat this as a pure
investment. They don't play games. They don't make, they may, they may haven't opened the
game maker once in the past four years. They only invite, they only do investment. And
for those creators, they are just creators. They may not know about the web three at all
at the beginning and they have to spend a lot of time to learn, okay, what is web three?
What is blockchain? Everything. And maybe they don't own a lot of lands. And for the
creators, maybe they are not even playing games. It's kind of separated. And the players,
there are some heavy players like studios. They are organizing, maybe that's not good,
but they are organizing a lot of camps to play the game, try to do the play to earn.
They have played to earn studios. I mean, each role is kind of separate. I don't know
if this thing happens in foreign, in Western countries, but from my perspective in the
Chinese community, the roles are more separated, but in the Western, the roles are more separated.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. Got it. So where you're a gamer, you might just be a gamer or creator, you might
just be a creator and a landowner, you're buying and selling land. And those different
groups, do they coexist with the MochaCien or are they separated there?
They not really exist in the MochaCien. We had another sandbox landowner group from the
very first days of the sandbox. There's another very good friend called Harvey. He's also
working as a Chinese, I think, manager or something. And he did a lot of work on generating
all this. I think he got around 16, 20, which had groups. Yeah, it's a lot of people there.
And Harvey was working in MochaCien?
No, no, no, he left the sandbox for a while. I mean, he left the company, but he's still
working in the ecosystem.
Got it. Got it. Okay. I think there's a lot to learn there. And I'm excited that you are
one such delegate that you can bridge that gap. Because I would very much like to see
coming together in our ecosystem. Because whether you're Chinese or French or Italian
or American, doesn't matter. We're all a sand fam in the end.
Yeah, I want to. I want to try my best.
Yeah. I mean, we're always going to do the best we can. We speak different languages.
We're going to need subtitles in Google Translator and whatever else we can do.
That's an interesting part of the matter, right?
It is. It is super interesting. Yeah. The next question was, does any crossover exist
between your sandbox style delegate position and MochaCien?
I think it's kind of separated. It's not really crossover. But you say crossover, there might
be crossover of the community members because sandbox and mochaverse are both under any
mocha brands. A lot of users both hold mochaverse assets and so hold sandbox. I think that's
the crossover part.
Got it. Okay. So that's not really, there might be some crossover in terms of individuals
in mochaverse being in your delegation. However, it's not like you and MochaCien are the same.
You are separate and different from each other.
No, we are separate too.
Okay, got it. And let's talk about your approach to voting. Old ones approach to voting. So
I looked at the voting history and I didn't see, oh nevermind, I did see, I saw participation
in MochaDow. Which, surprise, surprise, you're in MochaDow. So it looks like the six votes
that you casted there, about half were against, two were for, one was abstained. And then
the one that you voted in the sandbox, you voted for the Parasity Jam and you voted for
one of the options. Can you describe to us your approach to voting in Dows?
For MochaDow, I just do delegates actually. I seldom go there to vote myself. But for
sandbox I think I have to be more active since I become a delegate. And the principle I hold
in voting, I think, which is kind of easy, I just want to see, because I'm more like
a creator, so I want to see more creative, like creator-related SIPs and this kind of
things. I'm not into those voting to ask the sandbox team to do some work on their
side. But to me, I think the Dow needs to work more independent, not really bundle together
with the official team. It should be kind of separated, get its own space to develop
what the community wants.
Got it. Got it.
And second is, I'm careful, but many, I don't want to see people wasting money on useless
things. And we also hold this principle with MochaDow.
And say that first part, you hold that with the MochaDow?
With principle.
Oh, okay. You do the same with MochaDow. Okay. Got it.
Yeah. In single voting, we really consider it as important thing. We don't want to waste
money on useless things.
Right. Okay. So you don't want to waste the money. Okay. Tell me about that. What's the
approach to being careful about money?
I think, you know, as my background, I had experience in many different fields. So I
understand how a project is running. I also know what is the logic cost of a project.
I think that is my tour to judge if the cost is kind of valuable or not.
Got it. Okay. And does that also apply in MochaCN? Like that same principle?
I think almost.
Okay. Got it.
MochaCN, we got experience in investments, in projects. So yeah, I think it is.
Got it. And so you would carry that same principle as a separate and distinct delegate for the
sandbox style. And in your experience in project management and assessing logical costs of
projects, you would be very interested in making sure that we're careful to spend money
wisely.
Yes.
Okay. Okay. Well, makes sense. And you know, I think that answers that question about your
approach to voting. So number one, you want to see more creator related SIPs and number
two, careful to spend money wisely. Okay.
Yes.
Are you involved, other than MochaDao and sandboxDao, are you involved in any other
DAOs?
I think we are somehow involved also in the ApecoinDAO because the MochaDao voting at
the moment is all about the ApecoinDAO. So people from ApecoinDAO also reached out to
me to talk about the AIPs. And I also got one of my AIPs there based on the blog toy
project. So I think I only got involved in the spree. And most of them are, and every
of them are animal care related.
Okay. And next would be your delegation description. So your delegation description was very, very
succinct and to the point. And I really liked reading this. Every voice should be heard
and every good idea to get the power to thrive. For you, how, how did you want to accomplish
every voice being heard?
I think the difference of the sandbox or the most attractive part of the sandbox is some
small, like some, some, some independent creators can find a chance there other than in the
traditional business. So game creator and voxel artist, they can also find their position
in the sandbox. But I also see that during the development of the sandbox, a lot of good
creators don't got the chance they deserve to. So when they start roll out, I think,
yeah, we should definitely help these great creators to grow. And yeah, and the creator
is everything for the, for the, for the matters because they are producing content, they're
producing value. So that's what I think.
And that now, now I'm really, really fascinated because in, in use, when you explain the culture
within the Chinese community, you have those very separate and distinct roles. So if they,
if they delegate to you, those, those individuals, how will you hear each voice while, yeah,
how will you hear each voice?
Oh, you have to do the discussion with, with different group of people based on different
issues, I think. Yeah, there might be some, some, some nice IPs related more to the landowners.
They talk more with their landowners and for great for creators, I will have to discuss
with them. But luckily we have different reach out groups based on different kind of different
type of participants. Yeah, landowner group and creator group. And during all that past
four years, luckily we also built up good connection with these people. So the community
communication channel, I think, inside the Chinese group is pretty good. It's pretty
finished. But the problem is just that this community, the communication channel between
the Chinese group with the Western is they will need to build up.
The Chinese group and who?
And the Western.
Oh, the Western, right, right. Western.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think I would be interested in helping to bridge that gap. There's, I think there's
probably something that we can do to where we can host some sort of communication channel
between like have a have a Western and Chinese group get to know each other day or something.
I don't know yet.
Okay. So you within, so within your the Chinese group, there are the different communication
channels that are very separate from each other. So when you have a SIP that you're
being asked to vote on, do you have any idea of how you you you discuss it with each group
and then weigh each group's opinion against each other?
We're in the opinion against each other.
I mean, it's a turn of phrase, I guess I should say. Do you have a way to weigh each group's
opinion on
Okay. To be honest, we don't have a very finished solution for this problem at the moment. But
let's see how it will go with with the voting happens.
Yeah. Okay. So you're going to figure it out.
What I'm trying to do is just try to get the community, get the attention from the community
on the Dow because some of them are being quite forward. So first, we need to get the
attention and then got it got it. I would still cut voting power and make them active
and then we talk about the next step like on voting because I think people still need
to be educated on the Dow things.
Okay, that makes that makes a lot of sense, especially when you said because they're,
they're so specialized, some haven't even opened game maker. Some, some probably don't
even like you said, don't even know what three is. And okay, yeah, I get it. That that is
quite a complex problem. You every group has its own different thing that you're that you
want to try and to either convince them of or persuade them or inform them and educate
so they can become Dow members.
Dow creators, I think we just need to hold our own principle like the IP itself should
be good for the ecosystem. That's it. And everyone can understand.
Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be a tough problem. But I'm looking forward to helping to bridge
a gap and have a good healthy ecosystem.
Yes, that's great. So the the next part was you your your delegate, your delegation description
mentioned getting the power to thrive and how did you envision doing that within the
sandbox?
Dow?
Dow.
Dow. Yeah, I think there were two parts. The first part is the good ideas and good
products get a fund, which is most important. When they get a fund, they can realize it.
And second part I think is more about partners.
What was that word?
Partners, partners.
Partners, partners. Got it. Okay.
Yeah, partners, because you know, sandbox got a lot of partners there. And we also working
together with say Mochaverse and maybe 8coin. And the crowd style thing is also interesting.
The idea is okay, we want to help the good projects, good ideas to get funded. And we
also want to help them to get some more resources like partners, like some other some other
resources because the ideas in the SAP may be not only games, it may be some different
some other things like project maybe did like the color palette. All these projects need
more more partners to develop in more chances to to grow bigger to find their position in
the metaverse even outside the sandbox. Yeah, I think the two key points is got fund and
some resources outside there.
Okay.
Yeah, so so not just like trusted partners, but also like cross style partnerships.
Yeah, yeah, partners from outside ecosystem. And yeah, and I think sandbox out we're also
love to see that part because it bring bring traffic bring the attention from the outside.
Yeah. Yeah. And what type of delegate do you want to be known as? Is there any specific
way that you when someone says old one is a delegate of blank? How would you like them
to fill that sentence in?
Oh, I don't know. That's interesting one. Maybe. Maybe just say about creators, something
like, yeah, about creators. Yeah.
The old one is a delegate about creators. And what sort of sips do you foresee that
you you don't really think you'll support?
Oh, I don't got an answer for this one. To be honest, I'm, I'm, I think myself is very
open minded. I'm open to see good ideas. And I'm open to all kinds of ideas. But I make
up different opinions when I see when I look into the details. So
Okay, yeah, that's fair. So right now you're just you're open minded and you're open all
kinds of SIP ideas.
Yeah, yeah.
And what sort of voter do you think fits best with your delegation style? I can probably
guess creators.
I don't know what type of voters. Yeah, creators.
Creators.
I think I'm kind of open like, yeah, I love to speak for the creators. So I see creators
but the situation may be different in Western and here as I mentioned, the creators, they
don't hold many assets. And that's why I want to vote for them. Yeah. And I would try my
best to get the delegation from the big land owners in China to just to help the creators.
And so while you you may want to speak primarily for the creators, do you also foresee people
who are are like, Chinese landowners also would fit well within your your delegate,
your delegation style?
I think yes. Okay, because I can do the communication.
And how? What about non Chinese community, landowners or creators?
I'm pretty open because some people know little land from the very first beginning. And we
still hold the same idea or say same belief as we establish little land. So if anyone
believes in what we do, and yeah.
Okay, so if they if they agree, and they're doing the same principles as you will take
them no matter who.
Yeah, true, true.
Okay. And old one, how was the delegate process? What was it like for you?
What was the delegate process?
Like the process, like the application? Did you go through the interview?
Oh, I did an interview. And we talked some topics, like what we just discussed.
Gosh, okay.
And that is that then that is that was it.
And how did you get notified that you were a delegate?
By email.
By email. Okay.
Yeah.
And what are your thoughts on that the 2 million being voted gate 2 million voting power being
delegated to you?
Like from the official?
Yeah.
I don't even know this before. I think I missed some something in the form I didn't even know
this before. But I think it's good because currently, if you have to gather the SIP pass,
you still need the voting power from the sandbox official. I think at the moment they will
I think later on they will they will delegate this voting power belongs to the team to these
delegators, right?
I actually don't know. I've been asking around how is that going to happen? And I don't think
we know yet.
Yeah, but I think for this 12 delegators with 2 million voting powers for each thing, and
it will be easier for the Dow to to just pass an SIP on its own, not like depending on the
voting power from the official. It's just more decentralized.
Was this the first like this interview here, the first you're hearing that you you have
2 million voting power that's been gifted to you?
I heard it before. I heard it before. But after I got the notification. Yeah, but I
just heard from a friend not like official.
And now that you you know that you're getting 2 million extra voting power, is that going
to change or does do you see that changing the way you vote?
No, I don't think so. It doesn't change anything. Just because you have some power there and
but it won't change the principle. You're gonna. Yeah, it doesn't change your principles.
And that and also you've been involved in mocha scene, which has enormous voting power.
And so you're I think you're kind of used to seeing how applying that much voting power.
So yeah, it seems like you're very well experienced with that sort of thing.
Have you had to sign any additional agreements to become a delegate?
No, no.
Okay.
Let's see when I think I think yes, it's not really signed. But before the application,
I think with the application form, I we did reach them agreement on that.
Oh, like the code of conduct?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something.
Okay, got it. No, that makes sense. Okay. Well, great old one. Is there anything that
you'd like to say to anyone thinking about delegating to you? Or just delegating in general?
Yeah, delegating to general. If you think we're on the time and if you think and if
you also share the same belief with little land, I will be the good choice. And yeah,
if you want to find like more communication between Chinese and Western, I will be the
good choice. And but I'm pretty open. I'm like just let people find the delegate best
fit back to them. I think everyone's great. A lot of very experienced delegates. They're
like more like every guy, they're very experienced people. So I trust in this group. Yeah, great.
Yeah. Well, that's all the questions I had all one. Did you have any for me or any other
topics you'd like to cover before we close?
Not really. But let's say it again, right? We really want to find a way out for all the
great creators. Maybe for the sandbox, we want to see more types of content, not maybe
not only games in the sandbox, maybe like Voxel style games on different platforms with
with the same like that's the Voxel culture something. Yeah, just less. Just less empowered
creators. That's it.
Power the creators. You and Seb agree, say almost word for word.
Okay. Hope I didn't get brainwashed by him.
Yeah, well, I mean, you Lulu land has definitely been a very creator focused creator centric
type thing like when when we when I when I played the love is. Oh, yeah. Love is forever.
Love is forever. Right. That was one of my first experiences I think I played was love
is forever trying to. And I remember thinking, who? How was this all created? Like was this?
It all seemed like magic to me when I didn't even know what game maker was and just running
around the train station and it was really, really cool, really interesting. And we've
come a long way, I think, even though we have still so much more to go. We the Dow represents
a really interesting opportunity for our community for San Fam to grow the creators, the landowners
and all the rest of the ecosystem.
Yes, true. I agree. So there's a few a couple spaces I wanted to make you aware of. I think
you've heard this last time, although I've improved it since we talked on Episode six.
So you know about the one on Discord, which the Dow discussion channel, you know about
the sandboxed out forums, you know about the Twitter hashtag San Fam sandboxed out and
sandbox game. You also know about sandbox, that Sandow podcast. You may or may not know
about the Sand Fam Cafe by Pickaxe Master held once a month. And the sandboxed out created
their own YouTube channel and they just finished their first episode, I think yesterday, first
podcast episode. So they went over the results of the survey, which I highly recommend, because
it is very honest, very, very honest about what people think about the Dow. And I really
appreciate that they were so willing to show those results so that we can all improve and
focus on things. And you'll see quite a number of things about creators in there as well.
Old one. And they just kind of go through the responses of that survey on the sandboxed
out podcast. And then the spaces, you already know about Mochaverse Hall, you know, G is
us and Mocha Chief hosting United Grand Halls on Mondays. Then there's Bowls on the Block
on Saturdays and Coffee with Captain, Monday through Fridays, and Whale Members, natively
digital on Tuesdays. And those are all different places that Sand Fam gathers, different creators
and landowners will gather and might be, if you ever have the time to visit, I'm sure
they would love to host you.
I will try to join more into this. All these great things.
Yeah, that's it. Let's see if there's anyone on that I can raid before we close. Let's
see if we can raid a creator. Are there any creators on we can find? That's always a good
one. So let's look. Oh, looks like it's just me. So I'm going to raid. I will raid. How
about a charity? Let's raid. Let's raid a charity and then we will close out. Okay,
so old one, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for coming on and telling us about
who you are, how you want to vote, and the importance of advocating for creators and
creating a healthy ecosystem. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you, Lancer. Thank you for keeping this great podcast going on. And yeah,
let's work it out together.
Absolutely. All right, Sand Fam. See you.
Have a nice day.