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Good morning, everyone.

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Send out podcasts 44.

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Today we have a special guest, Hervé Lorrain, spelled A-I-R-V-E-Y.

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And if you're looking at the dashboard, it's A-I-R-V-E-Y dot E-T-H, Hervé.

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He is one of the 12 delegates that was just announced three, four days ago for the Sandbox

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Dow.

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Today we'll be doing a meet and greet and it will be a learning opportunity to learn

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about Hervé and how he wants to approach delegation, who is the best fit as voters,

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and to learn about Hervé.

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Welcome, Hervé.

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Good morning to you.

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Thank you so much.

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Thanks for having me from YGG in Manila at the moment.

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In Manila.

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So everyone from...

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So you're there.

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Are you on tour?

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Are you meeting meet and greet?

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Yeah.

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So I'm doing an Asia roadshow at the moment.

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So I went from starting at Singapore 2049 to Hong Kong FinTech Week to then the DEFCOIN

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in Bangkok.

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And this is the final stop.

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So YGG Manila.

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And I'm in between also meeting a lot of members of the Sandbox family here in Manila as well

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over the weekend.

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So I'm very excited about it.

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Very good.

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Very good.

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And our disclaimer is we do not represent the Sandbox game or the Sandbox DAO Foundation

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that I'm aware of.

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Do you represent Sandbox DAO Foundation in any way?

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Hervé?

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No, just as a delegate.

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Just as a delegate.

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All right.

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So we are not your financial or legal advisors.

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Nothing we say is to be taken as financial or legal advice.

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When we say the word SIP, we mean Sandbox Improvement Proposal.

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When we say the word DAO, we mean Decentralized Autonomous Organization.

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But when we use the word SandFam, we're talking about the Sandbox community, those who participate

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in the people, product, and purpose of the Sandbox ecosystem.

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That ecosystem looks a little bit like this.

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We have people everywhere from gamers to the Sandbox team.

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The product would be the game client, VoxEdit, Game Maker, Market, and the DAO.

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And the purpose would be not only what is spoken of in the white paper, but also how

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Sebastian Bourget, Arthur Medide, both co-founders of the Sandbox, and yet Sue speak about the

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vision and purpose of the Sandbox.

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All that together equals the ecosystem.

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And for our purposes today, we're zeroed in on the people sector of the ecosystem, specifically

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the DAO delegates.

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Sandbox and Scoreboard have not moved because the DAO admin team has been hard at work getting

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the delegation system online.

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And we all started on May 28th via a Medium article when the DAO was launched.

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September 10th, the DAO, Sandbox, DAO opened up delegation applications.

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And then November 13th is when the 12 delegates were announced.

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One such delegate we have here today, Hervé Lorrain.

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And I'm Lancer, your host, Sandbox DAO podcast, and president of the MetaWorlds group.

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We have two experiences.

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But that's not why we're here today.

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We're here to talk about Hervé.

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And Hervé, welcome.

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If you wouldn't mind, please.

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I have a little bit of your background here.

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We'll fill in the gaps in between.

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Born in France, went to school in Montreal, Montreal, and also the United States.

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So you got your MBA, Masters of Business Administration from Columbia.

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And you also attended the Harvard Business President Program.

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Go ahead.

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Yes, post MBA at Harvard Business School.

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Post MBA.

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There we go.

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That's a good word.

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Post MBA, Harvard Business School.

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Found at LVMH, Louis Vuitton, Moet, Tennessee, very recognizable, very recognizable company.

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You also started your own Bitcoin mining company in 2013.

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I found a picture, I think on a news article, maybe coin telegraph, where you've got your

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hard hat on in the server room.

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You can see in the background, all the, they look like ant miners.

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And 2013.

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So almost from the beginning, very close to it.

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From there, you assisted Grayscale during their hunt for SEC approval, which they eventually

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gained for their fund.

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And you've been in the metaverse since about 2017.

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And it says you first heard about the metaverse through Decentraland's ICO back in August 2017.

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You built a gallery in Decentraland, so you're no stranger to building in the metaverse.

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And you're the first person ever to bid a million on an NFT, which was that, that people

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had over 5,000 different NFTs all bundled together as a collage.

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But what, what, what lasted six seconds or so before you finally, you got outbid and

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the winning bid was $66 million.

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Million?

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Yeah, 69 million.

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69 million, which is quite a feat.

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So I'd say you were quite successful in kicking off a storm for raising the bar on NFTs.

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At least when you were describing it during your podcast with the gentleman whose names

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escaped me.

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Was that the reason why it all started?

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You thought, hey, we need to raise the bar on this and then decided to vote a million

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on it?

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Yeah, so for the backstory, I was advising one of the largest neighborhoods inside of

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Decentraland.

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And at that time, it was pre-metaverse times, pre-Facebook launching the metaverse, and

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they actually didn't have any money at the time.

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So they said, you know, we'll give you something.

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And that something ended up being an art gallery.

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It was actually two art galleries that they gave me.

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So basically two parcels of land with galleries inside of a gallery area that had 80.

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And I was the first one to build that art gallery neighborhood.

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And when Christie's put an auction, the Beeple, they knew I had a bunch of art galleries and

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they said, well, you know, we're putting an auction, an image of Beeple, 5,000 days.

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And you know, since you have an art gallery that you could be interested in.

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And I said, well, what is the starting bid?

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And they said it's $100.

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So I said, I said, OK, that sounds good.

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How much do you expect it goes for?

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And they didn't have a clue.

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So I ended up asking for a certain amount.

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They've raised my limit on the side.

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So when it actually went to a million dollars, that was the limit that they actually gave

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me for that auction.

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But we all thought it was going to go for way less than that.

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And then after that, it started.

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But I think the interesting part is that I was the only one that they gave the video

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and the material to actually promote it.

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So when I went on the Crypto Benter show, interviewed by Ran, the actual video and information

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that he's showing is actually the official marketing material of Christie's to promote

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the first ever NFT auction.

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So that was the interesting part about it.

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And how did you decide on a million?

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Was it like the just the flashiest bar kind of set the tone?

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Well, I thought about 100,000.

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That was my initial thinking about it.

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When you actually bid with Christie's, they they ask for your financial, they ask for

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your passport, credit card, etc.

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It's actually a very serious process when you actually enter an auction.

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And through that, they had actually approved me for a million dollars.

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And when I actually started to bid pretty early on, my maximum limit was reached.

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So I was live on the podcast when I was actually bidding.

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So I actually did place real bids.

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It was a real auction and live.

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And since I committed to play some bids, I placed the bid till my maximum limit, which

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ended up being the maximum limit for the first couple of hours.

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And obviously, at that time, we even thought that we didn't even understand how I could

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reach the limit so early on in the game.

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And it's funny because in a matter of a couple of weeks, I went from it's crazy somebody

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putting a million dollars on an NFT unheard of and then a couple of weeks after.

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So I was the craziest person, highest bidder literally in the world for a couple of hours.

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And then a few weeks later, when it reached 69 million, everybody told me, I can't believe

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you low bid.

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That was so interesting to see in the especially in crypto in a matter of a couple of weeks,

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how the momentum changes.

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It feels yesterday when Bitcoin was at $30,000 and now it's at 100,000.

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We feel it's almost it's almost normal now.

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It kind of sinked in.

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And then I was listening to an interview this morning that are talking about Bitcoin at

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a million.

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So it's actually interesting how fast people's perception can move in bull markets.

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And some ways it feels like you were a victim of your own success on that one.

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Yeah.

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And finally, and something that I haven't really heard people talking about is actually

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during the time of the auction, the price of Ethereum went up 20 percent.

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So it was actually not only a bull market for NFTs, but in parallel to that, just the

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prices of Ethereum skyrocketed at the same time.

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So which was which was quite interesting as well as far as the momentum.

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So not only we saw the price of the auction go up, but the price of the currency as well

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go up because you could actually pay with with Ethereum and Bitcoin as long as you had

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a US account.

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And it's funny because you had at the end two groups of people.

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You had the ones who were Ethereum Maxis who actually won Metakov and who won was an Ethereum

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Maxi.

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And the guys who were more Bitcoin Maxis, actually their pay started to slow because

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it didn't go up as quickly as Ethereum during the same period of time.

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So it was really the first time where I saw two different groups going at it.

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And ultimately, the Ethereum group won this one.

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Yeah.

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And would you say that's common for Ethereum and Bitcoin to go up in different intervals?

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Well, I mean, there's two ways to look at it.

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I look at the dominance of each of these currencies.

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Bitcoin was always around or at least today is around 60 percent.

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Ethereum around 13, 14 percent, which was kind of the case as well.

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But I think obviously that entire NFT craze for a couple of months was obviously built

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on Ethereum.

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So at that time, Ethereum was just it was just I would call it just the beginning of

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really the Ethereum bull market or at least bringing it to that past $2,000.

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I think we were about $2,000 at that time, which was the all time high.

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Yeah.

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Well, I was showing while you were speaking, I was showing the video podcast with Crypto

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Banter, the background, right when you're saying that it's live and showing the actual

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Christie's website in the bed.

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And there it is straight in the middle.

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One million bucks.

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Yeah, with probably my eyes going all around the screen to try to understand what is actually

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going on.

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It took us a few.

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It took us a good 20 seconds to realize that I was the highest base to the point that around

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the host didn't actually immediately understood that I was the highest bidder and was asking

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me to go above that bid.

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And I says, Ren, I'm the highest bidder.

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And so even even him took him a little bit of time to understand what was going on.

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Yeah, I think I think we were all all just trying to figure it out.

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All trying to figure it out.

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So a bit a bit of history on that.

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And then as you moving through the years, you joined Horizon Labs in 2021.

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Was it specifically to advise on Apecoin or did you start out as something else and then

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moved into Apecoin?

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Yeah.

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So when I created my my my company that actually has my name, AirVeil, so I'm focused on on

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the on tokens and tokens in different ways.

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So at first, as you said, it was on the mining side of tokens.

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Then it was on the ICO side.

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Then after that, it was on the on the the governance sides.

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And in that case, the part that really interested me was the creation of tokens.

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At that time, I was a holder of the the Zen token, the Horizon Zen token, which was one

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of the first one that had a grayscale vehicle.

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And I had given my tokens to a few grayscale vehicles to go public.

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And the Zen token was one of the tokens that I was looking at.

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In fact, probably one of the first ones to actually buy some Zen tokens, which was a

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fork of Zcash.

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And then from there, a new division opened Horizon Labs.

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And you know, I already had my company and took over Horizon Labs as one of the clients

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within my organization.

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And one of the first literally after a few months, one of the first projects that came

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knocking on the doors were the four founders of BYC and said, hey, we're interested into

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finding a partner to launch, which was at first the Metaverse.

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Actually a funny story.

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It wasn't actually Apecoin that was the first project.

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It was the Metaverse that was supposed to be launched first, then Apecoin.

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And a few months before the launch, it turned around and Apecoin became the prior launch,

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followed by the other D, the NFT drop, followed by the staking.

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And then the last four parts was actually this year with the Apechain.

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So that was the Apechain.

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I was more hands on as I was the lead on that project.

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But yeah, I had the chance to have a first seat looking at what then became a little

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bit of a part of history within the space and seeing a token going from zero to eight

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billion in 20 minutes was probably the most interesting thing in terms of value creations

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that I've seen.

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00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,920
And when I was running the numbers, I think from when I gathered it, it reached all the

238
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,440
way up to 1.3 billion.

239
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,440
Yeah, actually.

240
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,240
So there's two numbers that came out.

241
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:18,080
There's a number of $27 for a token, which would make a $27 billion market cap.

242
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:23,060
I even heard that it hit for a fraction of a second $40.

243
00:17:23,060 --> 00:17:26,080
So that would have made it a $40 billion market cap.

244
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,440
But that was during the price discovery of the first 30 minutes.

245
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,240
And after 30 minutes, it kind of stabilized at $8.

246
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:38,640
So I'm taking the $8 figure as I would say the average and probably the lowest average

247
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,160
of it all.

248
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,440
But on price discovery mode, the range is pretty wide.

249
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:53,200
The other also interesting part is that the tokens when it was presented to a lot of different

250
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,000
parties before being launched, you couldn't give it away.

251
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,800
I mean, people were just not interested in it at all.

252
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:10,400
And seeing that it created a $8 billion market cap, it was a good I told you so type of story

253
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,400
afterwards.

254
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:23,440
Yeah, you were on a podcast and one of your old Harvard cohorts, she said, yeah, you've

255
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:29,320
definitely told us seven years earlier that crypto was the way to go.

256
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:35,400
And there you were seven years later on the podcast with her.

257
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,840
Yeah, and even it wasn't even like a big vision that I had.

258
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,360
It's just that my mom is Venezuelan and asked me 10 years ago to send money to Venezuela

259
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,920
and the only thing I could send were bitcoins.

260
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,160
And I thought, well, if it can solve my problem, it probably can help millions of people around

261
00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:01,160
the world, which was kind of the first case study of Bitcoin, which was remittance after

262
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,920
an example that we take.

263
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,480
And each time that I hear people talking about transferring value from one country to another,

264
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,200
I always have the feeling they talk about my story because that's literally how it started.

265
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,880
So there were 50 countries back then whose economy collapsed.

266
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,540
And I thought it could be useful for them.

267
00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:22,800
So that was mainly the stories that I was saying.

268
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:29,760
I was saying, hey, you need to have a plan B in case of the economy of your country collapse.

269
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:37,440
In my case, it was the richest country in the world in terms of oil, reserve of oils,

270
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,440
more than Saudi Arabia.

271
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,280
And I thought, well, if that country, Venezuela, can collapse, then it can happen to any other

272
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,280
currencies.

273
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:53,040
So it was very much more of an insurance policy that I was suggesting to a lot of my classmates.

274
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:59,120
And in a funny, not funny ways, the people who actually remembered that story are mostly

275
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,120
from Lebanon.

276
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:07,920
And they said, well, if I would have acted on this, we could have never imagined a few

277
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,080
years after that our country would have collapsed, that the banking system would have collapsed,

278
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,160
that would have saved us.

279
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:22,800
So yeah, so it was always that narrative that I kind of really kept that you need to have

280
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:28,560
1% to 5% of your net worth as an insurance policy.

281
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:36,160
And it turned out to be true for developed, for up and coming countries, but also from

282
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,960
developed one with inflation.

283
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,040
So and ended up working, I guess, at this point for the entire world.

284
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:53,840
Yeah, you definitely seem to be in that kind of entrepreneurial spirit of solving a problem.

285
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,400
And first you solved your own problem and then evolved into how many other problems

286
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,400
can I solve?

287
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,920
But it looked like Christine, you and Christine way back in the day.

288
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:05,920
She's Lebanese.

289
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:12,760
So she had that problem, that problem first hand.

290
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,640
Yeah.

291
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:24,120
So Horizon Labs led you to all sorts of solutions that you architected with Apecoin, Apechain,

292
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:29,040
the start of the metaverse, ending with Apechain.

293
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:38,080
And then you felt like your time at being on the advisory council, excuse me, the special

294
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,600
council for ApecoinDAO, that you'd achieved your purpose and it was time to move on to

295
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,360
the next chapter.

296
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:50,120
And did you go straight here to Sandbox or did you stop somewhere else in between?

297
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:56,720
Yeah, so you resigned not like a month ago.

298
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,920
Yeah, so there were two things.

299
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:06,520
The first one, when I ran for special council, the purpose was really the launch of Apechain.

300
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,520
That was what I promised to work on and to deliver.

301
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:17,840
I'm happy to say that we were able to create an AIP that caused zero to the DAO with the

302
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,520
Apechain and it became the North Star of the DAO to the point that now the entire focus

303
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,060
of the DAO is actually on building Apechain.

304
00:22:26,060 --> 00:22:30,560
So talking about the return on investment, something that caused zero to the DAO and

305
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:38,880
now becomes the purpose and the focus of a big part of the treasury, 100 million in that

306
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,400
case is quite remarkable.

307
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:48,920
Building the vehicle for zero and then having $100 million of fuel on top of it, I felt

308
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:59,280
that AIP 378 was probably going to be the AIP that was the best ROI ever in history

309
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,320
for DAOs.

310
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:08,840
Bringing Arbitrum, Horizon Labs and an entire community together at zero cost, it's probably

311
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:09,840
unheard of.

312
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,960
So, yeah, I was very happy to lead that project.

313
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:22,320
Once it got ready to be unleashed, I felt that my job was done there.

314
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:29,800
And then I had other clients that I had to really focus on, including Animoca Brands

315
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,480
and the launch of their Bitcoin token, BeLife.

316
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,040
So this was the task.

317
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,440
Feels like a while ago, but at that time, we felt that the price of Bitcoin was going

318
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:52,240
to start to move and we need to get ready to launch that token that builds, that brings

319
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,620
the Web3 on top of Bitcoin.

320
00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:57,880
So that is the focus.

321
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:04,000
And at the same time, Sandbox asked me to be one of their verified delegates and maybe

322
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:11,160
to use some of their learnings that I had in the past, being on three DAOs simultaneously

323
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,520
and maybe there was some learnings there.

324
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:23,720
And what excited me about it is that probably the task that I felt was going to be a good

325
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,920
challenge from a delegation standpoint.

326
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:33,760
And what excited me is to create the first East meets West delegations and to have inside

327
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,600
of one delegation representatives and token holders of all three continents.

328
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,520
So Europe, US and China.

329
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:48,680
I had a chance to spend time with Sandbox China and they were very excited about that.

330
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:56,040
So when I floated the idea and I felt that the Chinese community was very excited to

331
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:02,920
delegate some of the tokens to me and kind of to reunite the vision of a DAO and bring

332
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,180
three continents together.

333
00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:10,700
This is what excited me actually to come and become a delegate for Sandbox and accepting

334
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:16,200
the invitation of the Sandbox team.

335
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:22,280
And when you say East meets West and all three continents, that's one of the reasons why

336
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:29,700
you are where you are right now in the extended travel itinerary you have is because where

337
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:36,480
you grew up in France and you also went to school in America and in Montreal, Asia is

338
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,200
not the place where you frequented as much.

339
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:45,280
So you're trying to network and share the vision and everything that goes with being

340
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,280
a delegate.

341
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,280
Yeah, exactly.

342
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:55,240
I felt that often one of the I felt that I've accomplished everything that I wanted to accomplish

343
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:03,560
in the previous DAO and maybe the only thing that wasn't accomplished as far as I would

344
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,800
have liked is to have stronger relationships in Asia.

345
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,320
And the reason why it was simple, I didn't spend time here.

346
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:17,280
And no matter how many Zoom calls and telegram chats you have, I think it changes a lot when

347
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:25,160
you go and visit Manila, Bangkok or Hong Kong and you spend time face to face and you get

348
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,920
a feel for the different community.

349
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:34,120
And it's also a form of respect to actually go see people and introduce yourself.

350
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:44,920
And I felt that being French, I knew the sandbox environment, I know where their offices are,

351
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,200
I get a feel from it.

352
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,400
Living in the US, I get a good feel from the US side of things.

353
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280
But Asia, I thought I had a feel but I didn't.

354
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:03,080
Now after spending a number of weeks here, now I can say that I feel comfortable within

355
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,080
that environment.

356
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:10,840
What is it that you say you've learned or come to understand that you didn't before?

357
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,160
So I think there was two things.

358
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:20,160
I think that we often think that the markets are always the same.

359
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,840
Like the Asian market, the American market, the French market.

360
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:30,680
We feel that it's the same and we don't often focus on the cultural differences that there

361
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,480
is.

362
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:40,360
And I feel that that part was the cultural differences, understanding what works in a

363
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:42,600
certain culture or another.

364
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,960
I think that was a big one.

365
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,520
The other one is just to know the individuals on a personal basis.

366
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,760
I think that was probably the biggest thing.

367
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,560
And third, really explaining the vision.

368
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:09,480
And sometimes, especially if English is our first language, we have the impression that

369
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,480
everybody just gets up to speed as quickly.

370
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:21,920
But sometimes it takes a little bit of discussions and more emphasis.

371
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:31,160
So I realize that sometimes with even myself as a French speaker, sometimes you need a

372
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:38,520
little bit more time to understand a little bit better what the entire vision is and not

373
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,360
just assuming that if you shoot an email that everybody will get it at the first read.

374
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,800
So I think that was important.

375
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,200
Gotcha.

376
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:56,120
So creating the first East meets West delegation representing all three continents.

377
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,840
And let's go to where your SanFam history began.

378
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,360
I think you probably have one of the more interesting, you have one of the more unique

379
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,920
beginnings of SanFam.

380
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,320
You actually, I don't think became a holder right away.

381
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:17,040
You because you're from France, also you already knew Sebastian and Arthur Mardige.

382
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,520
Did you meet them at their offices?

383
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,360
Did you know about SanFam or Sandbox specifically?

384
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,640
How did that take place?

385
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:25,640
So it was funny.

386
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,000
So I always knew about the name Sandbox.

387
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,920
I think everybody within the space knew about it.

388
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:38,560
But funnily enough, I actually knew Arthur before knowing Sebastian.

389
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:44,160
And I feel it's almost a little bit the reverse when I see most of the people.

390
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,600
They usually know Sebastian and kind of loosely know Arthur.

391
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,840
But yeah, so I actually knew Arthur and I knew Arthur not even through our crypto event.

392
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,640
I had a friend of mine who was a DJ who was having lunch in the south of France and who

393
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,360
says, oh, you're in crypto.

394
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:08,680
I need to introduce you to another guy who's in crypto.

395
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,760
And Arthur came at the lunch and we were there and I was explaining a little bit my story

396
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:20,080
and he was, you know, oh my God, this is amazing, et cetera.

397
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,000
And then after that, I tried to ask him and you what's your focus in crypto?

398
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,080
And he said, well, I co-founded Sandbox and I'm the CEO.

399
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:38,800
So I got humbled very quickly within that first meeting and we became friends at that

400
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,800
time.

401
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,360
It was through Instagram friends, et cetera.

402
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:50,780
And then over time, I actually got to know Sebastian way after that.

403
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:56,080
So when I would go to the Sandbox office, it was mostly to see or at least the few times

404
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,400
to see Arthur and not which was which was quite interesting.

405
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,620
And it never was.

406
00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:08,800
It was more about, you know, talking about the industry just just in general.

407
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,760
And then the only time where they really we had discussions were around when they were

408
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,040
thinking about creating the Sandbox now.

409
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:23,600
And I actually think I did the first draft of the doubt that I've that I've sent to

410
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,600
them.

411
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:30,280
And and after that, they built it and created their own and internally.

412
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:36,280
But yeah, so I was pretty early on in the in the conversation and then, you know, wasn't

413
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,780
involved for at least a year and a half and then came back as a delegate.

414
00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:45,480
So you about when did you meet Arthur?

415
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Oh, like we're talking 10 years ago, like early, early days or five years ago.

416
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,080
OK, OK, got it.

417
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:03,600
And then you you met said so I've watched many art many videos of Arthur because I wanted

418
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:11,560
to interview him one day and and early on when he spoke in Argentina and many other

419
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:18,640
places, it was he was speaking and then Seb was Seb was president, but it was mostly Arthur

420
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,720
speaking.

421
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:29,400
And then it seemed like about not long after Animoca got involved, then Seb, they flipped

422
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,600
and Seb was speaking a little bit more.

423
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,240
I think one of the last ones I saw of Arthur really speaking all the time was how he was

424
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:43,080
getting into the block chain that they were they were now moving from 2D mobile now to

425
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,440
3D block chain metaverse.

426
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,480
And he was really excited to explain about what they were trying to do with the land

427
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,400
and the white paper and Felix, that's a long time ago, 2018.

428
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,240
And then after that, I started seeing Seb speaking more and more at the conferences.

429
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,040
So it was a very interesting transition how how that took place.

430
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:12,560
So you met him about 2020 through a DJ friend of all of all contacts and assisting the first

431
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,360
draft of the DAO and so about 2023.

432
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,000
When that would have started about 10 months ago.

433
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,480
No, it was probably a couple of years ago.

434
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,160
A couple of years ago.

435
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,800
Yeah, it was okay.

436
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,000
I'll have to go back and see exactly the days.

437
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,000
It's okay.

438
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,000
It's okay.

439
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,080
So you were assisting with the first draft of the DAO.

440
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:39,320
So like before even the current DAO admin team got involved, because in the white paper,

441
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,760
I guess it does mention the DAO right away.

442
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,160
So how did that work?

443
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,460
They just said, hey, we how do we approach a DAO?

444
00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:57,680
So I think it was purely based on the experience with the 8.0 and how this got created.

445
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,400
And I think, you know, I mean, I was probably not the only one that they were talking to.

446
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,560
But certainly, well, actually, I might have been.

447
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,520
But yeah, it was to learn a little bit the DAO.

448
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,520
I think it was also maybe a combination that was I was based in the I was French based

449
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,920
in the US worked on the 8.0.

450
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,000
So I probably was on the short list of the of the person to talk to.

451
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:31,680
And and and I think, you know, we actually got hired to actually do that first, you know,

452
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,680
document.

453
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,880
So it was actually an actual, you know, presentation that was done around that.

454
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:45,360
You know, I was wondering, I've done quite a number of few podcast episodes on the sandbox

455
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:51,440
DAO and the founding documents, which they were released for SIP number one and two.

456
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:57,880
And it always struck me just how similar ApecoinDAO was sandbox DAO was to ApecoinDAO the way

457
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:05,160
it was the way it was was conducted in the Cayman Islands as a foundation company.

458
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:12,440
And then you had the Constitution and the bylaws and the articles and the tech stack.

459
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,800
They were very similar when I was doing my comparison in a few some episodes ago.

460
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,880
So we have you to thank for that is what I'm hearing.

461
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:21,880
Yeah.

462
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:28,840
I think I think also I think also the interesting part was sandbox is actually a voter on the

463
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,920
ApecoinDAO sandbox.

464
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,240
I heard about that sandbox as a delegation.

465
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,880
And they actually voted quite a lot, actually.

466
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:47,640
So not only were they very involved, the obviously a lot of board of community members had lands

467
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:48,640
on sandbox.

468
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,080
I think Bay of I.C. still has a piece of land.

469
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,080
They do.

470
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,080
I just checked the other day.

471
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,080
They're still there.

472
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,080
Yeah.

473
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:02,760
And one of them, a very big NFT owner as well is a sandbox.

474
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:08,400
So very, very close relationships between these two DAOs.

475
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:18,000
And also, as far as DAOs to take example of, you know, the ApecoinDAO is probably one of

476
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,360
the most known one.

477
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:27,920
Yatsu was one of the first the first batch of special council members on the ApecoinDAO.

478
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,360
So that creates also proximity.

479
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:39,280
And so, so, yeah, there was there was quite a lot of crossover, which is, I would say,

480
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,080
predictable or at least normal in an industry that still remains small now and even more

481
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,440
so a couple of years ago.

482
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:53,720
So yeah, it's now I think DAOs are going to evolve in different ways.

483
00:36:53,720 --> 00:37:00,440
You know, sandbox DAO has landowner, which, you know, as of the ApecoinDAO doesn't.

484
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:05,640
I think the business cases are so different.

485
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:11,720
But and the purpose also of DAOs, you know, is the purpose of the DAO to give the grants

486
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:17,560
to our community or is the purpose of the DAO, you know, focused on building products.

487
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,840
So I think there's there's quite also a lot of different philosophies between them.

488
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:23,840
Yeah.

489
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,960
And that's that's taken place right now.

490
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,480
I mean, as you can see, the discussion surrounding like, what do we even do?

491
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,840
Because most of us didn't know what a DAO was until May 28.

492
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,040
I didn't even know what a DAO was.

493
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:41,120
I had to Google it and figure out like, oh, this actually is not a new thing.

494
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,480
The DAO started in 2016.

495
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,080
And even before that, I listened to a podcast where DAOs started well, well before that

496
00:37:49,080 --> 00:38:00,600
in 2013 ish as as decentralized autonomous corporations, according to Aaron from from

497
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,160
artifact labs.

498
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,040
And so it has a it has a history long predating even.

499
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,040
But here I am.

500
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,360
I never heard of a DAO until recently, and neither had the rest of us because we're just

501
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:13,360
gamers.

502
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:14,360
We're gamers and landowners.

503
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,760
And then suddenly, here's a DAO.

504
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,400
So it's a learning experience.

505
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:27,800
And by extension as well, you know, a football team like the Green Bay Packers are the first

506
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,880
version of a DAO.

507
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,160
They're owned by the community.

508
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,840
The same thing with Real Madrid.

509
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:44,360
So if you look at the the history of communities reuniting after around a cause, you know,

510
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:51,640
there are examples also outside of technology, those network effects created around a certain

511
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:52,640
belief.

512
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:58,080
So it's actually once you start going down the rabbit hole, it's actually you start

513
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,200
making all those, you know, take those weird twists and turns and to understand, you know,

514
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:11,320
how the kind of mindset worked in the past as well of communities, you know, uniting.

515
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,320
Yeah.

516
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,760
I did not consider that.

517
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,720
I didn't know Green Bay Packers were owned by the community.

518
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:24,540
So you really became SanFam, it seems like, in at least 2022.

519
00:39:24,540 --> 00:39:29,760
So when we talked about the ecosystem earlier, you've been a participant, at the very least,

520
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,800
for going on a couple of years now, it sounds like.

521
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:39,240
Yeah, I would say as far as, you know, knowing about the ecosystem and following it, I would

522
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:44,840
say probably very, very early on.

523
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:52,640
And then after that, as far as having them as delegates within the 8.0, that must have

524
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,360
been started 18 months ago.

525
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,240
So that interaction.

526
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:03,200
And they actually voted, Sandbox actually voted for me as special counsel.

527
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,280
They gave me their vote.

528
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,280
They also voted.

529
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:13,800
Well, they voted for a few proposals that I put forward.

530
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,360
So I, you know, I would say the same thing with French Apes.

531
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:27,200
You know, there were a couple of delegations that I knew on a personal basis and was able

532
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,560
to explain a little bit the vision.

533
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:37,440
And I was fortunate enough that they thought was aligned with the best interest of the

534
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:38,440
community.

535
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,440
Yeah.

536
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,200
And what would you say?

537
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:49,080
At what point did you either get your first San token or land?

538
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,760
So land, I never had land in Sandbox.

539
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,280
I never I never had land in it.

540
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:07,880
As far as and the reason was also I was an advisor on the biggest commercial zone of

541
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,840
the central land.

542
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:15,260
So I actually was with advisor at the central end.

543
00:41:15,260 --> 00:41:16,260
So that's right.

544
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:17,260
I got you.

545
00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:18,260
I got you.

546
00:41:18,260 --> 00:41:19,260
Yeah.

547
00:41:19,260 --> 00:41:24,920
So it would have been a little weird to also own land if I had a art gallery.

548
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,160
It seemed like you're playing both fields, both sides.

549
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,160
Yeah.

550
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:36,680
And also from a time perspective, you know, it was so that's that was the reason why.

551
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,640
And then as far as the token is concerned, I was going in and out of the token quite

552
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:47,160
a bit over the over the years.

553
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,400
And I believe they launched it in 2020.

554
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,400
So, OK.

555
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:57,880
So you've kind of been one of those silent San Fam participants for quite some time.

556
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:06,240
Yeah, I mean, it's silent, but I would say more in real life participant because I was

557
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:14,200
also at the majority of sandbox events that were happening, whether it was in Hong Kong

558
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,200
or in Paris.

559
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:23,640
So I was often seen within, you know, in real life and probably among all the protocols

560
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:30,680
that I've interacted with, I probably the know the most people at sandbox.

561
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:39,320
So as far as knowing an organization, I would say probably sandbox ranks pretty high up

562
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:48,000
there, and that's purely of proximity as far as as far as being in my mother city, which

563
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,440
is Paris.

564
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,680
So that obviously makes it easier.

565
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:58,040
And also over the years, I have the record numbers of panels at Paris Blockchain Week.

566
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,160
The last few years, I did five of them.

567
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,920
And I watched that you moderated those panels.

568
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,920
Yeah.

569
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:10,320
And I moderate the gaming panel, which there's always obviously a sandbox representative

570
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,880
on.

571
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:22,600
So I did quite a few panels with sandbox representative and usually the gaming and metaverse panels.

572
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:27,080
I moderate them, or at least I've done in the past, and I might do it this year as well.

573
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,800
So yeah, so I was very familiar with their ecosystem.

574
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:39,240
All right, I think we have fully, fully revealed your background and all of this.

575
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:46,000
Let's get into your delegate, your delegation perspective.

576
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,680
What would you say is your approach to voting?

577
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,960
I looked up your voting history and snapshot, and it looks like you are mostly yes, but

578
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:59,960
no stranger to voting nos or abstentions when called for both in the Apecoin DAO and the

579
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:01,560
Mocha DAO.

580
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:10,960
So as also some decentralized votes, how did you approach your voting in those environments?

581
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:23,440
Yeah, so I probably also didn't vote as much as in all of them.

582
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:29,760
I certainly follow every single proposals, but obviously being special counsel or involved

583
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:35,080
on some of these projects also abstained quite a lot.

584
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,520
The other thing that I try to do is each time that I vote, and especially if it's a no,

585
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,280
I always fill up the little box with the one line.

586
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,280
Yeah, me too.

587
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,120
That's always a good way to explain something.

588
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,120
Yeah.

589
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,920
So I think it just helps.

590
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:59,760
And obviously, certainly having also put proposals and AIP, including the Apechain, I really

591
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,800
valued people even if they put a no to explain me why it was actually a no.

592
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:11,560
So I always thought it was helpful.

593
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:17,360
And I would say also the approach of voting might be a little bit different from sandbox

594
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:29,160
where the proposal process tends to be very curated from the beginning, which ultimately

595
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:35,680
gives proposals that have certainly been jumping through a certain number of hoops before being

596
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,040
put in front of the community.

597
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:47,280
Other proposals tend to be just put up there and have maybe less barriers to enter.

598
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,360
So I think that's a good way to put it.

599
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,440
Which is neither good or bad.

600
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,480
It's just a process.

601
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:03,040
So I certainly feel that certain DAOs, once it gets in front of the delegates, might be

602
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:13,520
in a place where the value add to the project is better understood, or at least the idea

603
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,760
is explained in a deeper way.

604
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,280
So yeah, so I think.

605
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,560
And then there's other DAOs that I followed pretty closely, including the Arbitrum DAO,

606
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,760
which is the technology for the Apechain.

607
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:34,200
The reason why we decided to partner with Arbitrum and thought it was the best fit for

608
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,240
the Apechain is also their DAO process and how they do it.

609
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,400
And they also have a different way to do it.

610
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,880
There's certain barriers to entries in terms of numbers of tokens that you must have in

611
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,200
order to place bids.

612
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,080
Temperature checks and yeah, I read a little bit of their constitution.

613
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,640
Temperature checks, you have some, it doesn't go to snapshot directly.

614
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:04,600
So there's also a few other things.

615
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:12,280
And also just the size of their community, which is much bigger and their big delegates

616
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:17,720
who is actually significantly big and the level of these delegates.

617
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,720
I had the chance to meet all of them.

618
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:29,920
We're talking about seasoned crypto and technology experts who are giving their thoughts and

619
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,240
often their proposals are highly technical from the get go.

620
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:40,560
So it's very hard to just say yes or no on a lot of their proposal.

621
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,680
You need to really spend the time and understand.

622
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,600
And there's a reason why they pay their delegates is because it's actually a full-time job to

623
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:58,040
actually having a very, you know, a very definite answer about judging a technology is extremely

624
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,040
difficult.

625
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,600
I mean, certainly to judge the Arbitrum technology.

626
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:09,320
I mean, the teams, the engineering team and the discussion that they had were extremely,

627
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,160
extremely high caliber.

628
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,640
So it wasn't only a popularity contest where it tends, you know, Dow tends to go in that

629
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:25,560
direction, but also a highly technical analysis as well.

630
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:31,560
So I think it's the combination of both that usually creates the real value add in these

631
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:39,840
ecosystem and how, what sort of voting strategy or perspective do you bring now to the sandbox

632
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:40,840
Dow?

633
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:47,520
So you're not special counsel on the sandbox Dow, which kind of frees you of that obligation

634
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:53,040
or conflict of interest, but you still have a code of conduct that you that you've agreed

635
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,920
to within the sandbox Dow as a delegate.

636
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,720
How now do you plan on approaching voting?

637
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:05,640
Yeah, so, so yeah, we do have to sign a code of conduct in order to onboard as a, as a

638
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,160
delegate.

639
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:12,480
And then the voting, which is going to be the experiment that I'm excited about is how

640
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,900
do I get, you know, representative of three different continents agree on a vote?

641
00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:24,440
And that's kind of like the internal challenge that actually I'm putting, I'm putting together.

642
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:30,600
And one of the important aspects of taking over that role of delegate is, was for me

643
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:38,160
to really talk about, you know, a number of individuals who, you know, wants to delegate

644
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:44,160
tokens to, to, to this, to, to, to this group, to this delegation, but also want to get involved.

645
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:51,040
And if it wasn't for them excited to be part of it, you know, it wouldn't be something

646
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,920
that I wouldn't taking as a challenge.

647
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:01,240
I think that having a group of people represented, representing their own communities and for

648
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:08,240
all of us aligning on the decision making process, it's going to be so the votes on

649
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:14,880
that delegation, I suspect are not going to be me deciding, you know, yes or no.

650
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:15,880
Okay.

651
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,820
I might press the button at the end.

652
00:50:19,820 --> 00:50:26,640
But what is important to me is that making a unanimous decisions towards the cohorts

653
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,340
of individuals that I'm, that I'm talking to.

654
00:50:30,340 --> 00:50:37,320
And for me, that concept of East meets West delegation, you know, I wouldn't want the

655
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:44,960
East or the West to, to feel unheard of it and just be the East delegation, for example.

656
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:45,960
Got it.

657
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:46,960
Yeah.

658
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,480
So that would be the philosophy around it.

659
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,640
That's fascinating.

660
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,340
I don't think I've heard that, that sort of approach yet.

661
00:50:57,340 --> 00:51:02,480
So while you may press the button, you're really just a reflection of the East meets

662
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:09,480
West delegation as it decides and ideally unanimously that which way they want to vote

663
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,440
on each proposal.

664
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:12,840
Yeah.

665
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:20,040
And I think also it's the other part, what I was very keen on is not doing it as a Dow

666
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:26,240
within the Dow and based on the number of NFTs that each of us has or the numbers of

667
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:34,720
token, et cetera, but really to having more of a dialogue type approach and making decisions

668
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:43,040
not based on the voting power of individuals, but based on their, you know, their thought

669
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:52,280
process, which I think makes it quite interesting because it's going to quickly, what quickly

670
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,780
is going to come out is can we work together or not?

671
00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:03,160
And at which moment, so it could, it's either going to be the biggest success story or the

672
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:09,120
biggest failure or somewhere in between.

673
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,800
But there's entrepreneurial spirit coming out again.

674
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,400
Well, yeah, I mean, it's literally going to be like having roommates.

675
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,600
Either we're going to become best friends or either somebody's going to leave pretty

676
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:20,600
quickly.

677
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,160
So we'll see which way it goes.

678
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:24,160
Yeah.

679
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,440
I'm really fascinated now.

680
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,560
I think that's a very unique approach.

681
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:37,720
I'd like to, as I consider who I myself want to delegate to, that this is an interesting

682
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:41,360
approach and interesting cause.

683
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:42,440
How interesting.

684
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:48,040
So how do you foresee people participating in the East meets West delegation?

685
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:54,440
How do you see them having that dialogue to where you end up clicking the button?

686
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:02,120
Yeah, so I think the way that I want to position myself is that the clicking of the button

687
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:07,080
is so obvious that it's not even a debate.

688
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:15,640
And it's almost like, it's almost like, I feel, and also maybe because a few of the

689
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:22,360
members are really well experienced, I feel that the answer to the exam should pop up

690
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:29,600
directly and if we don't all have the same answer, then understanding what we missed.

691
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:35,160
So I think that's where we're envisioned to be.

692
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:41,600
If there's major discrepancies or thought process, then I'm going to be curious to know

693
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,360
why I didn't have the same analysis and where I went wrong or where they went wrong.

694
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:56,320
So I think pretty quickly we should get to a consensus, or at least that's my hope.

695
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,320
Yeah.

696
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:03,800
Well, you're putting in the time right now to make sure that it does end up being successful.

697
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:12,760
So I think we talked about through your involvement in other DAOs, not just ApecoinDAO, but Blythe

698
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:21,840
protocol and connection to Yatsu and Domo, who's the creator of BRC20 and their aim to

699
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,400
become the largest utility in the ecosystem of Bitcoin blockchain.

700
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:33,480
We talked about your former special counsel role where you were elected in January 2024,

701
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:42,480
you stepped down in October 2024 after you met the aims that you were after with the

702
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:48,120
Apecoin, Apechain, and ApeStake.

703
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,640
Was there anything else that you wanted to note on your time as special counsel in the

704
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:53,640
ApecoinDAO?

705
00:54:53,640 --> 00:55:02,080
I mean, there was ApecoinDAO, but also I was special counsel on the HorizonDAO, the Zen

706
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:12,280
token, which was one of the original OG tokens, one of the first one with a grayscale vehicle,

707
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:25,260
but a very important community in Korea mostly, and a token that was listed very early on

708
00:55:25,260 --> 00:55:27,020
in all the major exchanges.

709
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:35,280
So it was really the founding grounds of a lot of projects and also throughout the special

710
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:44,840
counsel position, I went from being at the foundation level of the Horizon Foundation

711
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,280
to then special counsel of the HorizonDAO.

712
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:55,680
So also kind of lived that transition between, let's call it for lack of a better term, centralized

713
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,880
to decentralized while being a special counsel.

714
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:06,360
So I think that that was probably a very interesting experience.

715
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,600
We saw that on the case of Apecoin, it started as a DAO on day one.

716
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:16,240
In the sandbox, the special counsel came in when sandbox became a DAO.

717
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:24,200
But in that case, we went, we kind of fixed the plane while we were in it.

718
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:33,520
So I think that in terms of transition times, that was actually the most interesting one

719
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:34,760
as far as being it.

720
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:44,240
And I also kind of build a little bit the DAO from a special counsel standpoint.

721
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:53,300
And to this point, I would say that in terms of healthiness of DAOs instead of agreements

722
00:56:53,300 --> 00:57:00,720
of special counsel members, in terms of international element, I think that all this actually were

723
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:01,920
seven DAO members.

724
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,520
The seven members are actually in all of different countries.

725
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,080
We don't have any two special counsel members in the same country.

726
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:17,760
We have two out of the council, the council out of the seven are women.

727
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,520
So I know it doesn't sound much, two out of seven.

728
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:26,400
But I haven't seen yet another special counsel that had two women as part of it.

729
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:36,120
I can't recall any disagreement as far as the DAO to the point of an unhealthy disagreement.

730
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,000
There's certainly conversation.

731
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:46,980
And also in terms of managing budgets in a very almost being addicted to be under budget.

732
00:57:46,980 --> 00:57:51,800
Maybe even that maybe that's a flaw actually to be under budget over time.

733
00:57:51,800 --> 00:58:00,720
So I think if there was an organization's ranking DAOs and actually putting notes, I

734
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:06,920
think it would rank extremely high as far as that set up of doing it.

735
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:13,680
So yeah, so that was something that I think should be highlighted as well.

736
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,640
And that was Horizon Global.

737
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,240
Yeah.

738
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,640
Hmm.

739
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,600
I don't think I'm very familiar with them.

740
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,760
I have to go look them up now after this.

741
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,520
The only reason I gave it any familiarity with them was when I was looking into your

742
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:33,740
profile and and I saw that you were a special counsel for both life and Horizon.

743
00:58:33,740 --> 00:58:37,200
And are you are you still special counsel?

744
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:38,200
Yep.

745
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,200
Okay.

746
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,400
I'm still special counsel on the Horizon.

747
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:50,200
So it's the Zen tokens and they're working also on a new token called ZK Verify, which

748
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:56,280
is the next the next projects being developed by Horizon Labs.

749
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,280
Okay.

750
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:58,280
All right.

751
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:07,880
And I think we talked about Apecoin and ApecoinDAO and Apechain and ApeStake.

752
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:13,800
And let's I think from your when you discuss in your delegate description connecting the

753
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:19,800
TSBDAO to to different Web3 communities.

754
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,320
So you're not just talking about Horizon or ApecoinDAO.

755
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:32,120
Are there other Web3 communities that you'd like to connect the DAO to?

756
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:39,340
So one of the so often so there's two ways to answer this.

757
00:59:39,340 --> 00:59:48,280
The first one is that what I've been advising a lot of projects or one of the things that

758
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,760
a lot of projects had in common is that they were in gaming.

759
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:58,360
And I think that I not only look at the Web3 communities, but also look at the gaming community.

760
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:05,220
So for example, right now in Manila, it's a gaming conference that I'm at.

761
01:00:05,220 --> 01:00:11,520
So I would say that we have gaming, whether it's from Web2 or Web3.

762
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:19,160
I've spent time at Gamescom in Germany about the largest Web2 conference in the space.

763
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:25,680
The first year that I went there, I counted three booths out of 800 that had the term

764
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,520
Web3 in it.

765
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,440
They were almost 10 times the amount.

766
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:36,800
So I've seen the evolution of slowly Web2 gaming getting into Web3 or maybe it's Web3

767
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,180
gaming, you know, spending time inside of Web2.

768
01:00:40,180 --> 01:00:49,320
But I think that the gaming community overall is a massive opportunity in the space.

769
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:58,880
In fact, one of the companies that I was advising, Exola, is or is and was the largest payment

770
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,200
processor within gaming.

771
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,200
They're the PayPal of gaming.

772
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:13,240
So I was, you know, I got very familiar to the gaming space in general.

773
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:22,400
I think also the Be Life token, which I advise and I'm the special counsel of with Yatsu

774
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:31,080
and others, they came out of a gaming company, the second largest gaming company of Arimoca,

775
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:37,200
which is the ex team of Assassin's Creed, the Ubisoft game.

776
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,240
They're the ones who are behind the Be Life token.

777
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:45,720
So very much the DNA of that organization is gaming.

778
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,720
Now it's gaming building on top of Bitcoin.

779
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:54,920
But gaming is something that obviously they are known for and the reason why they got

780
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,920
acquired by Arimoca.

781
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:04,120
So I think overall, when I think about community is not only, you know, within the community

782
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:09,920
that I was involved with in special counsel, but it's a broader space out there when it

783
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:10,920
relates to gaming.

784
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:16,120
And I think that's where I'm excited about the onboarding element.

785
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:23,400
Okay, I wasn't tracking that angle at all until you just said that.

786
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,880
That's an interesting connection.

787
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:31,560
There's a lot of things happening in the gaming space, even web 3 gaming space, even outside

788
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:38,040
of the sandbox where you see potential opportunities there to connect the communities.

789
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:44,880
Yeah, and I'm lucky that this year, one of the projects that I've been advising Blocklords

790
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:51,840
with the Lords token is the number one game on base and they got a Coinbase listing on

791
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,360
day one.

792
01:02:53,360 --> 01:03:01,320
So for a pure game to get a day one Coinbase listing and trending number one on base is

793
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:09,720
unheard of to the point that the CEO of Coinbase uses the Blocklords as on their presentations

794
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,560
as one of the success stories within the space.

795
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:14,920
I see.

796
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:15,920
Huh.

797
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:23,560
And you have ideas for what how that partnership might be between the Dow and the communities

798
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,160
or the sandbox?

799
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,160
Yeah.

800
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,560
So surely they have a partnership with Markovers.

801
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:34,200
So they did a token drop to all mocha holders.

802
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:40,540
But you know, I do suspect that there's potentials to have more synergies than just being involved

803
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:42,720
with with one Dow.

804
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,840
Got it.

805
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,840
Makes sense.

806
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:53,400
And when so when you spoke later in your description, when you when you spoke about the fresh opportunities

807
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,800
that you envision, that's also what you're speaking to.

808
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,840
Yes, yes.

809
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,200
Yeah.

810
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:06,240
And real world use cases.

811
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:10,280
What were some examples of examples of those real world use cases?

812
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:18,280
Or did we just go over them with Blocklords, Exola, Life and and so on?

813
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:23,840
I think the interest the other interesting thing about sandbox and the company and the

814
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:29,520
game and less about the Dow is that they're probably one of the project with the most

815
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,720
partnerships of any.

816
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:32,720
Oh, my gosh.

817
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:33,720
They have so many partners.

818
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:38,640
Yeah, I think over 400 or plus.

819
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:48,120
I was so I was on the sandbox booth at Hong Kong Gen 3 Summit and they had a partnership

820
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,060
with that lollipop company called Chupa Chups.

821
01:04:51,060 --> 01:04:55,040
So they I even said, well, why there's so many lollipops here?

822
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,240
Like is that this is well, they're not.

823
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:58,980
We're doing a game with them.

824
01:04:58,980 --> 01:05:08,980
So even even from from NFT projects to to supermarket chains to professional teams to

825
01:05:08,980 --> 01:05:11,360
music labels and and lollipops.

826
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:19,100
So I think in terms of real cases, sandbox already ranks as as number one.

827
01:05:19,100 --> 01:05:24,960
And also what I would like and and and maybe I shouldn't chew too many things on day one.

828
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,120
I think the East meets West is already a good topic.

829
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:35,280
But also having these brands have a delegation or certainly delegating to some of the delegation.

830
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:41,760
I think that they should be part of the decision making process of of the Dow.

831
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:46,280
You know, the largest delegation right now of Apecoin is made by Apes, who represents

832
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,560
hundreds of companies within the space.

833
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,120
I think that there should be something similar with sandbox.

834
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,080
You know, they have a huge number of companies.

835
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:03,840
And I think that would also, you know, at least from a learning process, would be interesting

836
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,840
to have them being being on board.

837
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:15,400
And and I believe that if a company signs up, you know, having them voting as well,

838
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:20,160
maybe could be could be something I wouldn't say it's a requirement, but I would say it

839
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,560
would be a fun fact for them to to know of.

840
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:25,560
Yeah.

841
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:26,560
That's fascinating.

842
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:35,840
And I'm aware of me by Apes and and how the business end of Apecoin Dow, they've come

843
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:43,240
together and and trying to make quorum to within their own delegation to vote.

844
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:48,960
I think they have like six million voting power, so quite quite a substantial amount

845
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,680
presence within the Apecoin Dow.

846
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,160
Yeah, that's something that could happen here.

847
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:59,080
What kind of delegate would you like to be known as to fill in the blank of?

848
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,240
AirV is blank.

849
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:11,000
Well, I think would be an open minded delegate when it relates to, you know, building an

850
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:19,000
an international cohort and and also somebody who hears and listens to to the different

851
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,000
members of the delegation.

852
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:29,560
Yeah, that's I think that's quite clear.

853
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,560
Quite clear.

854
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:33,960
All right.

855
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:39,000
So what what sort of steps would you say that you don't support?

856
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:45,440
I think it's too too early to say.

857
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:53,200
I feel that my certainly my expectation is that because of the the process of the sandbox

858
01:07:53,200 --> 01:08:00,640
now that once SIPs arrives in front of the delegates, that they will be in a place that

859
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:05,160
would be, you know, very well thought through.

860
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:10,440
So I suspect that this might be the case.

861
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:19,720
And you know, I feel as well that there's going to be inspirations taking from the gaming

862
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,160
world, the Web3 world, the landowner, the token owner.

863
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:31,640
So it would be interesting to see, you know, where the community what's their number one

864
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:38,600
focus today, because already, you know, speaking to landowner, they have certain ideas in mind

865
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:45,920
that might not be the same ideas of gamers that might not have other ideas of token holders.

866
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:52,920
So I'm curious to see where that first batch of SIPs will bring us.

867
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,660
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be interesting.

868
01:08:56,660 --> 01:09:04,040
Because of the many when I did my podcast episode on the sandbox ecosystem, it was about

869
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,080
an hour, I think hour long.

870
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,080
And that was just an introduction.

871
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,160
And that was me putting pen to paper for here are the different sectors that I know of.

872
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,880
And I went a little bit through it in the beginning.

873
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:21,680
But that ecosystem that I ended up org charting out, it's big.

874
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:22,880
It's really, really big.

875
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,320
You don't just have token holders.

876
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,860
You have many different types of participants in the ecosystem.

877
01:09:29,860 --> 01:09:33,380
Everyone from land brokers, we don't own anything.

878
01:09:33,380 --> 01:09:38,280
And they just broker deals to major landowners.

879
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:42,800
You you've got, oh my gosh, you have a lot of different interest groups with a lot of

880
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,880
different with a lot of different things that are important to them.

881
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:53,960
So that's why I'm very interested to see how your East East meets West delegation takes

882
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,440
a takes a stance on that.

883
01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:59,680
Because not only do you have the different types of San Fam people, but now you have

884
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,680
different cultures and different within different types of San Fam.

885
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,680
That's a tough challenge.

886
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,520
That's gonna be tough.

887
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:13,200
And to build on that, I mean, it's it's 10pm right now in Manila tomorrow morning, my 9am

888
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:22,320
breakfast is with an entire interior designer, a Filipino interior designer who created a

889
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,320
studio for sandbox.

890
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,440
So he's he's not only he's not a broker.

891
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:33,720
He's not he's a studio owner creating experiences on top of land.

892
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,680
So just to build on what you're saying.

893
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:37,680
Wow.

894
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:43,080
I'm really, really fascinated, Erve, how how you're going to bring together the East and

895
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:44,080
the West.

896
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,040
I was just talking about that with another delegate old one.

897
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:54,280
And I also just interviewed last night.

898
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:58,920
I mean, how time flies.

899
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,840
But I just interviewed a number of delegates, old one, especially where speaking about how

900
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:04,840
diff.

901
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,920
Oh, it was crypto mo.

902
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:15,400
So also known as mo fat, one of your fellow delegates, and OG Shakespeare just came in

903
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:21,920
with 17 people saying hello, erve from another channel.

904
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:26,840
So everyone where we are currently interviewing erve, one of the the the 12 delegates that

905
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:32,800
was just approved, and he's looking to create an East meets West delegation to bring together

906
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:40,660
the three different continents, Asia, Americas and Europe to to bring a consensus to where

907
01:11:40,660 --> 01:11:46,640
all he has to do is just really reflect the will of the East meets West delegation and

908
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,320
and come to that unanimous decision.

909
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:59,200
So man, that that's so fascinating that how both mo fat said the same thing as did an

910
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:06,600
old one speaking to how different even between Korean and Chinese communities are.

911
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:13,000
It's you I can see how this being the one of the final things you want to do in a Dow.

912
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,360
It's I'm interested to see how you solve this problem.

913
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,360
I think it's going to turn out to be a template that we use.

914
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:25,240
Because that's one of the things in the San Fam community that's been a barrier, a challenge

915
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,240
for us is the different cultures.

916
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,520
And that's not being able to really come together yet, because it's difficult for us to communicate.

917
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:39,680
Yeah, so maybe this is one of the ways in which we solve that that issue.

918
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,760
So what would you say as a San Fam voter?

919
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:50,920
What type of San Fam voter best fits your delegation style and the East meets West strategy?

920
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:56,400
Yeah, I think I think it's a it's a couple of things.

921
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:04,680
The first one I want, you know, people who who like that that philosophy about it, about,

922
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:11,040
you know, that that reuniting is having somebody who, you know, speaks French to talk to the

923
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:17,440
to the French sandbox team understands the local markets and bridge the gap between the

924
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:22,680
two of them, which is something that I was doing at the LVMH based on the US, you know,

925
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,160
importing French products to the US market.

926
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:31,560
So I had a little bit of training on this and I feel it's a it's a cut and paste within

927
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,160
a different industry.

928
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:39,040
And I think also I want I want people to have fun within that delegations.

929
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:44,600
I want people to who are there because, you know, they they have they want to have that

930
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:45,600
fun aspects.

931
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:49,280
Also, I want it to be an enjoyable experience.

932
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:56,920
I want it to be an experience not only online, but also in real life.

933
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,520
You were mentioning old one.

934
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,080
I had a great time with him in Hong Kong.

935
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:09,400
You know, yeah, we were, you know, very transparent about our delegations, our objectives, what

936
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,360
we wanted to do.

937
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:14,240
You know, we spent time together.

938
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:20,640
So, you know, I don't want to create those delegations when it's a rivalry and, you know,

939
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:26,560
I'm going to vote at the last second to outbid you type of where I wanted to be, you know,

940
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,800
very transparent from from day one.

941
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:37,720
And I think that even, you know, he has, you know, you know, leading another delegation,

942
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:44,200
you know, I feel that, you know, we will both be working for for the greater good and for

943
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:45,840
and for the Dow in general.

944
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:53,440
And I feel not only is going to be a very positive working relationship within the delegation,

945
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:59,000
but also I hope a very positive experience with other delegations as well.

946
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,480
So yeah, I'm very excited about that.

947
01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:05,960
Well said.

948
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,720
Well said, not a competition.

949
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:13,240
The opportunity to cooperate.

950
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,680
And I think you are we already spoke on this, the delegation process.

951
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,560
So you were you were asked to by the sandbox team.

952
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:24,160
And so did you also go through the application and the interview process?

953
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:25,160
Okay.

954
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:30,380
Yeah, I've done I went through through all of it.

955
01:15:30,380 --> 01:15:35,120
And then how were you notified that you became a delegate?

956
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:39,160
I think it was an email.

957
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:48,200
I think they emailed me and saying that my profile was was approved.

958
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:57,000
And now that I didn't know that there was a two million dollar, not a dollar, two million

959
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:02,280
voting power gift that would be bestowed, I think it's a very fascinating way to eliminate

960
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:03,840
the quorum problem.

961
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:09,320
And I think I think most people probably would agree that, you know, that the two million

962
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:17,520
VP split among 12 now is a very interesting way to to to take out off the voting power

963
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,840
from one sandbox wallet now to spread among the delegates.

964
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:31,720
Does that change the weight you feel of voting or the process by which you want to vote?

965
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:35,920
I think well, so there's two things.

966
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:42,640
The interesting part is that when you look at the large wallets of most of the Dows,

967
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:47,920
you know, most of them were towards airdrops, actually.

968
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:48,920
Yeah.

969
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:49,920
OK.

970
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:57,920
So, you know, having that transition of a Dow midway, I feel that, you know, kickstarting,

971
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:07,200
you know, everybody in an equal way is actually the right way for people to really think about

972
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:16,200
the SIPs and not be on the road trying to convince delegates to, you know, convince

973
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,360
token holders to delegate their tokens.

974
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:24,560
So that gives people, you know, the being part of the process from day one.

975
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:30,280
And after that, over time, we'll see how this how this evolves.

976
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:35,320
Are people going to have larger delegations or they going to have smaller ones?

977
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:42,200
Are they going to feel, you know, really vested in the project or not?

978
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,860
So, you know, it's Dows are always evolving.

979
01:17:46,860 --> 01:17:50,240
So we'll see how the delegations evolves as well.

980
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:51,240
Yeah.

981
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:56,600
I'm fascinated by that, how the delegations are going to evolve.

982
01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:00,240
Some delegates have already mentioned that they feel a weight on their shoulders or they

983
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:04,240
feel a heavier responsibility when it comes to voting.

984
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,120
Others say it's not going to change the way I vote.

985
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,680
I'm going to vote with the same principles and how each delegate kind of decides for

986
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:18,000
themselves what they want to do with that voting power.

987
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,920
I'm really interested to see how that works within the ecosystem.

988
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,760
Have you had to sign any additional agreements outside of the Code of Conduct?

989
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,760
No, I believe the Code of Conduct was the only one.

990
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:30,760
Okay.

991
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:31,760
Yep.

992
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:36,720
And that's a pretty consistent answer across the board.

993
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:43,200
And so, Hervé, we've talked through so much and your history, how you want to approach

994
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:55,080
the delegation process, building an East meets West mentality across three continents, what

995
01:18:55,080 --> 01:19:01,400
steps you do and don't support, and having an open mind to see what the different community

996
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,160
interests, where it lies.

997
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:09,440
And so we just went through all of the questions I want to hit for a delegation.

998
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:13,760
There was one final thing I want to go over with you if you have the time.

999
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:18,200
Something that I saw as I was reading through the articles about you watching Crypto Banter

1000
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:22,320
and YPO Art Network, do you have the time to go through it?

1001
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:23,320
Sure.

1002
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:30,480
So, here's something that I found was fascinating as I was watching your interviews and articles

1003
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:38,560
was I was surprised to see just how early on you mentioned the metaverse.

1004
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:43,120
And I guess less surprising now that I understand your connection and how early you went into

1005
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:44,680
Decentraland.

1006
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:54,600
But what struck me was that, like in the Coin Telegraph article by Elias, you talked about

1007
01:19:54,600 --> 01:20:01,120
there are blue chips in metaverse land and like traditional real estate, it will depend

1008
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,360
on the income generated with it.

1009
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:12,560
Later on in the article you talk about how your passion on building on top of Bitcoin

1010
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,320
with BRC20s and ordinals.

1011
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:21,760
And when you're speaking with Crypto Banter, you think that the long term vision is seeing

1012
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:29,120
the virtual reality and the metaverse is where people will be spending a lot of time.

1013
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:35,840
And then in YPO Art Network, you talked about being interested in art in the metaverse.

1014
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:42,640
And then you went into how there are the two different types of asset classes on the non-fungible,

1015
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:49,460
one being virtual real estate and how having that virtual gallery to show virtual art,

1016
01:20:49,460 --> 01:20:51,520
you need virtual real estate to accomplish that.

1017
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:59,360
But I start seeing a common thread of how your position is that virtual reality, virtual

1018
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:03,840
real estate is where a lot of people will be spending time in the future.

1019
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:12,880
And also I read your 2019 article or the 13 reasons to buy Bitcoin.

1020
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:18,560
Can you tell me more about why that's such a common thread or what you see there to where

1021
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:23,240
in almost every video I've seen and more than that, you mentioned the metaverse and its

1022
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,640
importance in the long term?

1023
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:34,560
Yeah, I think it touches something that I actually recently understood why.

1024
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,800
And I understood it when I did.

1025
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:43,240
So I did the one on one interview of Yatsu at Paris Blockchain Week on the main stage.

1026
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:51,600
And one of the questions that I asked him is why among the 540 companies that are part

1027
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:57,520
of the portfolio of Animoka, were the two largest subsidiaries, Sandbox and Darewise,

1028
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,600
are both French companies?

1029
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:07,080
It feels that the odds are very low that your two biggest companies among 540 are both the

1030
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:15,340
same nationality from the same city with the same type of founder with the same pedigree.

1031
01:22:15,340 --> 01:22:20,040
And he said something very interesting, which I think hit the nail on the head.

1032
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:29,520
He said, you know, French people have the capacity to imagine things that don't exist.

1033
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,440
That's why they're the leader in luxury.

1034
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:39,840
The reason why France is the home of luxury is we understand that the perceived value

1035
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:47,960
that a bottle of Dom Perignon champagne is worth $300 because of the value, the romanticism

1036
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,360
that is created around it.

1037
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:57,880
And I think that the reason why my transition from often people are surprised, it says,

1038
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,240
well, you went from physical good to virtual goods.

1039
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:05,560
And thinking about it, it's the exact same thing.

1040
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:12,280
You know, when you work in luxury goods, you know, you have your cost, but the value of

1041
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,040
the consumer is completely different.

1042
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:23,520
In fact, the main or the only don'ts when you work in a luxury goods company is talking

1043
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:27,600
about the price, because if you talk about the price, that means you did something wrong

1044
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:29,080
before.

1045
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:35,280
The price shouldn't be an issue because you should have created so much value around it.

1046
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:43,040
And there's no prices attached to like like you go into an air May bag to get in the store.

1047
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,240
I did not realize that.

1048
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:53,960
So when you go to Hermes and your goal going in is not to know the price is to get on the

1049
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:59,520
wait list, see how deep you are on the wait list.

1050
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:04,080
The price doesn't matter when you go to a Louis Vuitton stores all over the world.

1051
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:05,640
You ask for the price of the wallet.

1052
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:10,720
They have to unwrap it and look inside the little tag that says, you know, eight hundred

1053
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:15,640
dollars for the wallet and no discounts, no negotiations.

1054
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:19,600
And you know, you're lucky if that's the only wallet that is left in the store to actually

1055
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,580
to actually make it.

1056
01:24:21,580 --> 01:24:30,320
But what I what I realized through that was that it is actually the reason that the reason

1057
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:36,520
why the founder of the image became the two richest.

1058
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,800
And that's also a little known fact.

1059
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:45,240
The two richest people in the world last year, men and women, were both French and they were

1060
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:48,520
both creating luxury goods.

1061
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:54,320
So it shows that the cost and the perception is completely different.

1062
01:24:54,320 --> 01:25:01,020
And when you I think the reason why I understood, you know, the million dollar NFT that goes

1063
01:25:01,020 --> 01:25:10,620
for 69 million is because I felt it was the exact same thing in the real world.

1064
01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:16,360
You know, that when you go to the Louis Vuitton Museum in Paris, you know, you have Monet

1065
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:19,520
paintings all over that are worth 100 million dollars.

1066
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:24,920
But you don't say, well, it's a piece of wood with, you know, a few paint brushes.

1067
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:27,520
You understand that this is the value around it.

1068
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:32,360
So I think that's why the transition was kind of seamless.

1069
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:37,000
I think that's why the transition was, hey, I understand to solve a problem.

1070
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:41,440
And you know, the value of Bitcoin is going to go up because I really I looked at it more

1071
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:48,520
about the size of the problem that it's solving and I never put a cap to it.

1072
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:56,200
And yeah, and I think that's the case of a lot of the French founders of these companies

1073
01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:05,720
who are doing well in Web3 is that they understand that the cost and the perceived value.

1074
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:13,720
I think I'm just now grappling with connecting the dots in my own brain right now processing.

1075
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:17,060
I don't think I've ever quite thought of it that way.

1076
01:26:17,060 --> 01:26:19,960
You looked at the size of the problem and you never put a cap to it.

1077
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,480
I think that's probably similar to how I got into crypto as well.

1078
01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:33,040
When I saw Bitcoin, I saw the size of the problem, you know, the unbanked, the debanked,

1079
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:40,320
the thing that you solve with your mother in Venezuela, trying to get her some money

1080
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:48,560
and having the issue of somewhat destabilized, but you know, not as stable of an environment

1081
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:53,240
to where it made it challenging and how you solve that in an afternoon, sending her Bitcoin

1082
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:56,800
instead.

1083
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:02,160
The size of the problem and not putting a cap to it.

1084
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:07,120
And I think it relates also to tokens.

1085
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:14,120
We say, you know, is it more important for a token to have a utility or a community?

1086
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:21,480
And the reality, if your token doesn't have an actual utility, that means it doesn't have

1087
01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:23,480
any cap to it.

1088
01:27:23,480 --> 01:27:31,840
So that's why we see Doge coming to a hundred billion dollars market cap without a utility

1089
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:37,840
or rather a different utility that's around fund and call and et cetera, rather than some

1090
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:42,540
other projects that have a utility and that are valued like a traditional take business

1091
01:27:42,540 --> 01:27:44,480
at lower multiples.

1092
01:27:44,480 --> 01:27:55,080
So I think that that element, what I saw when you sell luxury goods is actually the exact

1093
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:56,540
same mindset.

1094
01:27:56,540 --> 01:28:03,680
We don't think about a Louis Vuitton bag, about the price of the leather, we think about

1095
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:08,480
what is the joy that it will bring me by having it.

1096
01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:13,040
I will end with this.

1097
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:19,280
One time I was with colleagues and we were speaking to people about, you know, selling

1098
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:24,720
bottles in a restaurant for a very high amount.

1099
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:30,960
And we asked them, well, how are you able to sell bottles for 10 times the multiple?

1100
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:38,200
And the person said, we don't negotiate with good times.

1101
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:44,400
And I think that what they're selling, the value of the bottle is the value of good times.

1102
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,840
And often that can be priceless.

1103
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:49,760
I think that's a great place to end.

1104
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:56,200
Thank you for exploring that topic with me.

1105
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:00,240
I walked away from that with, we don't negotiate with good times.

1106
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:01,420
That's a good one.

1107
01:29:01,420 --> 01:29:02,460
That's a good one.

1108
01:29:02,460 --> 01:29:09,640
But seeing the size of the problem without a cap, I think that is the right way to connect

1109
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:11,040
those dots.

1110
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:18,540
Hervé, is there anything you'd like to part with or say to the SanFam community before

1111
01:29:18,540 --> 01:29:21,400
we end today?

1112
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:22,400
That was amazing.

1113
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,160
Thank you so much for having me.

1114
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:29,800
It's been an hour and a half and it felt like it just flew by.

1115
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:35,840
I'm very excited about embarking with that delegation.

1116
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:40,400
And not only I hope to meet everybody on Metaverse, but also meet everybody in real life.

1117
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,560
So thank you again for having me.

1118
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:43,560
Yeah, likewise.

1119
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:45,480
The pleasure was mine.

1120
01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:52,120
One thing I wanted to end with on our note here was there are places which SanFam gathers,

1121
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:58,640
and I'll send this to you as well as a message, but you know of Discord and the DAL Discussion

1122
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:04,480
Channel, the Sandbox DAL forums, there's Twitter of course, and YouTube is basically Sandbox

1123
01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:08,360
DAL's YouTube, mine, and then SanFam Cafe.

1124
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:11,480
That's been a long standing one by my PXX Master.

1125
01:30:11,480 --> 01:30:16,600
But where people gather during the week is on Mondays, Mochaverse Hall has a space they

1126
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:20,840
do on Saturdays Bulls on the Block, which you're probably familiar with as a delegation,

1127
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:24,340
one of the OG delegations for Apecoin.

1128
01:30:24,340 --> 01:30:27,400
Also many SanFam gather there on Saturdays.

1129
01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:31,880
Monday through Friday, I'm sure you're familiar with Coffee with Captain, you've heard of,

1130
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:35,760
so they sometimes speak about SanFam.

1131
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:41,400
And I suppose your connection there will also make a pretty nice introduction.

1132
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:44,040
If you're able to speak there.

1133
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:49,360
And then Whale Members, one of the largest landowners within Sandbox is Whale Members,

1134
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:53,280
and they have a natively digital Twitter space on Tuesdays.

1135
01:30:53,280 --> 01:31:01,920
So something where you can also advocate for the East West delegation where SanFam will

1136
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,160
typically gather in those places.

1137
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:10,960
I think they would really, I think many of them would enjoy and benefit from hearing

1138
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,440
what you're trying to accomplish and then join you in that endeavor.

1139
01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:22,080
So something I wanted to briefly touch on before we end here.

1140
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:23,440
Thank you for your time.

1141
01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:24,920
Thank you so much for your time.

1142
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:27,640
I really appreciate speaking with you.

1143
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:32,440
And everyone, this is Urve Lorin.

1144
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:38,840
He is a storied history across multiple Web3 and Web2.

1145
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:45,880
Starting from Louis Vuitton to ApecoinDAO Special Counsel, one of the OG Bitcoin miners

1146
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:52,480
when it all kicked off this grand experiment here in Web3, looking to create an East meets

1147
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:57,720
West delegation across the three continents of Europe, Asia, and the Americas to come

1148
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:03,280
to a unanimous decision where dialogue is fruitful, positive, and all he has to do is

1149
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:08,720
just reflect the will of the delegation because we've all arrived at a coordinated and well

1150
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:10,440
synced decision.

1151
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:13,720
Urve, thank you for your time.

1152
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:14,720
Appreciate it very much.

1153
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:15,720
Thank you.

1154
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:42,720
All right, Sam Fam, we're out.