Hello everyone, Sandow Podcast 41.
We have been burning fast this past weekend, mostly because of the delegates that have
been announced just a few days ago.
There are 12 of them and we've been trying to interview as many as we can so that everyone
has an idea of who the delegates are and so they can start delegating and we can make
quorum an issue of the past.
Today we have the intern, also known as the Hidden Walls, who is in the delegate page.
He'll be the top right, the first one showing.
And we're going to be interviewing him today from Singapore.
And yeah, welcome the intern.
Hello everyone and good to be here.
Thanks for having me.
I'm very happy to have you.
Today is about a meet and greet with intern and a learning opportunity so that we can
all understand how intern wishes to be a delegate, what intern intends to do, and all the fun
things that can help you decide if the intern is the right delegate for you.
So disclaimer, intern, I do not represent the Sandbox game or the Sandbox style foundation.
We are not your financial or legal advisors, nothing we say is to be taken as financial
or legal advice.
When we say the word SIPP, we're talking about Sandbox Improvement Proposal.
When we say the word DAO, we mean Decentralized Autonomous Organization.
And when we say the word SanFam, we mean Sandbox Community who participate in the people, product,
and purpose of the Sandbox ecosystem.
The Sandbox ecosystem has all these different things, many, many different careers, functions,
products, all weaving together to create that ecosystem.
And today we're focusing in on the DAO delegate, which is one such person and entity within
the people sector of the ecosystem.
Specifically, we're looking at the intern, also known as the hidden walls, as you might
read it on the delegation page.
So the scoreboard and checkbook have not moved.
We're still at 2.3 million spent of our 15.5 million budget, which is roughly 15%.
And we're still at 15 SIPPs, nine having been approved, six having been not approved.
All of them were not approved because of Quorum, which we hope in turn will help make that
a thing of the past.
I hope so too.
So the road to the DAO, the three things that really matter for today is on May 28th, the
DAO was announced via the Medium article.
On September 10th, the Sandbox DAO opens up delegation applications.
I like many others applied and we know that there are many, many applications.
So the fact that the intern is here today just speaks to the caliber that the DAO admin
team expects that an intern will bring and that we all pretty much know if you've been
here and you've seen the way the intern has participated in the community, this should
not be a surprise to you.
And then November 13th, 12 delegates were announced just five days ago, five, four days,
like that.
So let's get straight.
Go ahead, intern.
Yeah, it's about over since the announcement.
Yeah, since the announcement, it's been a flurry.
And if you have any questions for intern, please post them in chat.
I will put them on the community questions, which we'll get to toward the latter half
of this podcast.
And I'm Lancer, I'm the podcast host.
I'm also president of the MetaWorlds group.
We have two experiences, one called lava defense.
The second is floor droppers, which is currently in Alpha season four, but I'm not the only
one with something in Alpha season four.
Isn't that right, intern?
Right, right.
So right now, then, siege defense, wrath of the titans is the featured experience for
the day for the next, I think another more, another 12 more hours to go.
That's right.
So let's see if we can pinpoint it on the map here.
You are the top.
No, not there.
Scene.
No, there's so many.
I can't see them because I don't know.
Where are you?
Are you in the bottom right?
Bottom right.
Yeah.
You mean you mean at the center of the map?
No, I like the center.
Oh, I thought you mean the original location.
Don't see it yet.
You're here somewhere though.
Yeah, it appears on my map though.
Casey's deja vu.
Asia.
The left side of the map is south side and then I like two parcels to its left.
I can't.
Oh, there we go.
I can get in more now.
I'm having the toughest time finding it.
I really should have asked you beforehand.
We're talking about the center of the map.
Oh, there it is.
Zero.
Two.
Deja vu too?
Yeah.
Deja vu too and then I'm like to its west.
Rath.
There we go.
That's the one.
Siege defense.
Yeah.
So that siege defense is the one that was just released, wasn't it?
It's probably in the sandbox daily right now.
But congratulations.
So you're also part of deja vu.
I didn't notice that.
Oh, no, no, no.
I'm not part of deja vu.
I'm just using it.
Oh, yes, the left.
That's the preference point.
Here it is.
So the intern X, which we'll get to in the voting history or the sandbox profile question,
but wrath of the siege defense right there.
That is intern.
So congratulations.
We are, I think it's 3525 of over a thousand experiences interns was selected to be an
alpha season four.
That's a major accomplishment.
Wait, a thousand?
I did not know there were so many.
There are over a thousand experiences.
Yeah, I know.
And the funny thing is the builders challenge one, I'd calculate that there was four hundred
and sixty two for an eighty two that were announced.
But now there's over a thousand since builders challenge one.
So that I'm not sure about the numbers, but that's what I hear.
Seb and and others say on podcasts.
So I believe them when they say it.
Where am I?
Floor droppers right there.
Smackdown in the middle.
I'm going to lose little one by one.
I see it.
It's not easy to lose.
Yeah, it's right there.
By wrath of the siege defense.
But I'm so happy for you, intern.
All right.
So back to let's get into known as the hidden walls, but also known as many others.
Intern, could you please give us your background and introduce yourself?
OK, so hi, everyone.
I'm the intern at the hidden walls.
I will explain that later on.
My background.
I bought my first crypto in late 2020.
I think it was in December 2020.
And then in August 2021, me and my wife started a PFP project together.
After that, she moved on to drawing digital art while I moved on to the metaverse space
during the whole metaverse hype when Facebook changed its name to meta.
I started off in the Centralland in early 2022 as a participant.
And then after a while, I started getting involved in the endow.
A few months in, I became a sole author of a governance proposal that was successfully
implemented as well.
And then in 2023, I moved on to the sandbox.
And so here I am right now.
As for the names, the hidden walls.
So it's this whole thing about me being the intern, whether I'm the hidden walls, whether
I'm Ten Ten in Discord.
So all three, they are all related.
The hidden walls is kind of like the main brand.
It's also what, yeah, so it's essentially the main brand.
And then I go by the name, the intern, and my wife goes by the name Mama Hen.
So if we do see either one and they are related to the hidden walls, we are essentially the
same thing.
What was the second one?
Did you say Mama what?
Yeah, Mama Hen.
Mama Hen.
Yes, horny, right?
Yeah, I didn't even know that one.
Yeah, well, because it's corny.
So I tend to leave her introduction to her.
So Mama Hen is who?
Is the wife.
Okay, got it.
And what's Ten Ten?
Ten Ten would be my original in-game name in the central.
So because when I first started out in Discord, it was because of wanting to immerse myself
in a community in the central land.
So I had that name.
I used it in Discord as well, and it has been that ever since.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Okay, so do you have any other names that we need to know about?
Not that I know of, but I will let you know if I do.
Okay, so the hidden walls is your name in brand.
Is that like the studio?
Kind of, yes.
You can call that the studio name.
And then the intern is your main name that you go by?
Yes.
Mama Hen is your wife, and Ten Ten is your original name that you carried over from Decentraland?
Correct.
Okay.
So also another clarification, I'm not exactly an intern.
It's just with the whole Twitter and X, the intern is always up to no good, right?
So I carry that name.
Oh, because of its availability?
Yeah.
And also, you always see the intern posting nonsense, and that's kind of what I was also
going for because I prefer my persona to be something that is a bit more mischievous,
a little more relaxed in terms of the content, not so serious.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So the intern slash Ten Ten slash the hidden walls, thank you very much for explaining
that to us.
My pleasure.
So you became SanFan in August 2021.
Oh, I'm sorry, not August 2021.
It was after that, after the PFP.
Yes, yes.
So 2022 was Decentraland and 2023 is the sandbox.
So I started off, I think in 2023, Q3, I think it was September.
And the big reason was because at that point in time, there was a land sale, there was
a Lion City land sale.
Singapore is known as the Lion City.
I did not know that.
Yeah.
So the Lion City land sale was mainly targeted at Singapore and the neighboring audience.
And so I participated in that land sale and the end of June as well.
And then from it, I actually got to know a lot of local creators, players, even the sandbox
staff as well, the guys and ladies who are involved actively in maintaining the sandbox
ecosystem in Southeast Asia.
Gotcha.
And this was in September 2023 was the Lion City land sale?
Yes.
Okay.
So then you became San Fam.
Yes, actually.
I kind of like started off earlier in season one.
Yeah, during season one, I actually did start playing.
But at that point in time, the motion was a little choppy.
So it gave me motion sickness.
Yeah.
So as a player in season one, and then as a landowner, you deepened your involvement
in September 2023.
Yes.
All right.
Makes sense.
I did not know Singapore was known as the Lion City.
That's awesome.
Let me make sure I write that down.
It's a really small country.
So we have to give it a...
You got to give it something, right?
Got a lot of teeth, big teeth, big power.
Yes.
Big teeth.
Not wrong.
Yeah.
It was it was y'all's Independence Day not too long ago.
Yeah, it's a relatively young country.
We gained independence in 1965.
So comparatively to everyone else, I would say that we are kind of like a new kid in
the block.
Yeah, Dr. Loretta Chen and I spoke a bit about that.
I interviewed her on Independence Day for Singapore.
Yeah, that's so cool.
That is so cool.
All right.
Right.
So let's go into your sandbox experience.
I looked up your profile and I saw a litany, a whole load of stuff, which knowing your
involvement is not a surprise.
But I saw 38 experiences.
38 with over 400 assets.
And turn ridiculous.
Okay, I'm not surprised.
In my defense, sorry.
I'm not surprised to see one of them in Alpha season bullet, but walk me through 38 experiences.
Yeah, that has got to be a record.
Okay, in my defense, when I started out as a builder, it started out recreationally.
And it still is recreational for me.
I do I build games as a form of stress reliever.
And many other games, I wouldn't say it on the scale of like, siege defense, like siege
defense and one last chance, right?
They are kind of like my flagship experiences.
But beyond that, most of the other ones are mini games.
Some of it are like templates that are modified to practice on certain mechanics, you know,
some things that is experimental to see how things work, how things work in a game builder,
sorry, to game maker.
And then when you publish it, because you know, we all know that when you're using the
game maker versus using the client itself, right?
The experience can be very different.
Yeah.
So, that explains pretty much why I have 38.
I would say out of the 38, maybe half of them are player folk in a sense.
The rest are kind of like in the initial or still, you know, still building them up.
Gotcha.
Well, while you were speaking, I had that your Wrath of the Titans playing on silent
so everyone could see the trailer.
But yeah, looks good.
Looks very good.
I can see all of the different lessons you learned.
I can't even hold a candle to something like this.
I normally get someone else, I have a partner developer to help me.
Just give instructions, right?
Right, right.
I'm the creative designer, like I know what I want to look like.
And then we talk through the mechanics.
I'll help place a block here and there or like do a little bit of stuff.
Yeah, I'm an amateur.
What's that?
That works, right?
Right.
Yeah.
Cool.
So, one last chance.
Tell me about that one.
What's the story behind that one?
So essentially, when I first thought of what were the genres that I would like to dwell
in, I knew as a beginner game maker, it would be very difficult for me to enter into a space
that's saturated, it's hard to get seen by anybody.
Everybody would have played a game that's far better than mine.
So the two genres that I realized at that point in time in late 2023 that were still
not explored were casino, gambling, and also RPG, hack and slash.
So those were the two that got me started on one last chance, which is a casino experience.
It dwells a lot in RNG or what we call random number generator.
So essentially, if you bet, say, 100, you can either get back 25 bucks or you can get
200, which is 2X.
So the element of the RNG, the luck factor, I feel it's something that it's worth exploring
into.
Okay.
Now I'm going through the...
We're watching the trailer right now.
So it looks like you hit play and then you put in the amount that you want to wager and
then it resolves the hand.
Okay, great.
So we are good on that one.
So I think we have a pretty good idea of your background now and why there are so many names.
Our first question.
I hope.
No, it makes complete sense.
I get it.
You have a storied history in this, not just only one metaverse, but also as we're about
to get into, what was your motivation for applying to be a delegate?
So coming in from experience, I feel like when I started off in the sandbox down, it
feels like I was in the central end down in the beginning.
So throughout the whole experience, you see a lot of hiccups, you see a lot of things
that some would call injustice.
And I feel like a lot of all these mistakes could have been resolved if someone with relevant
experience comes in, shows the way.
And I thought, why not me in the sandbox down?
There are a lot of pitfalls that we can hopefully avoid.
The same mistakes that happened in the central end, hope to not have it happen in the sandbox
as well.
That will be my core reason why I applied for a delegate.
So kind of like be the change you want to see in the world and be the solution to the
problem.
Exactly.
It is.
Oh, yeah.
Makes sense.
And some of those things that some might call injustice, are you still seeing that as something
you want to address?
As of now, because there are, okay, so the way the central end down runs versus the sandbox
down runs is pretty different.
The sandbox down, I believe the whole down model is derived similar from the way it find
down runs.
Where they have the special counsel, the advisory board that's there to kind of get what experiences,
what proposals go through and what don't.
What else for the central end down is a whole different game.
They allow practically anyone to come up with a proposal.
No editing.
The owners is all on the author itself.
And Descenderland, it's like that?
Yes, it is.
So you can literally right now create an account, go on the central end down, post a poll.
If the poll says, if your project or proposal says, look, I want a thousand dollars to build
an experience, people will vote.
They will go through the poll first and then a draft and then governance proposal.
If it passes governance proposal, you get your grant.
Gotcha.
Wow, that is very different from us.
It is very different.
So in a sense, it's good because there's nobody skating, but it's also bad because nobody
is skating.
Got it.
So when you talked about the injustice, you were referring to the central end.
Sorry, I did.
When you referred to injustice earlier, were you talking about the central end?
Yeah.
Mainly, yes.
I'm sorry.
I didn't hear that.
Say that again.
Mainly, yes.
Okay, got it.
But a little bit maybe in the sandbox style that you wanted to be the change.
Yes.
So I think that, I mean, so far in terms of the SIPs itself, I don't see a huge injustice,
which means that the Dow team is actually doing a really good job.
I also understand that there has been a couple of proposals that were dropped along the way.
So those, I guess we'll never know.
Got it.
That's where the transparency comes in.
But you want to make sure it doesn't happen here.
Yes.
As minimally as possible.
I wouldn't dare say that we can, the sandbox style will be all great and perfect and then
there'll be no corruption, there'll be no favoritism, all that.
But as much as we can, hopefully with all 12 delegates, we can pursue an impartial system.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
So let's look then at your voting history, which only shows the sandbox style.
So didn't you say that you were a proposal author of Decentraland?
Yes.
So the thing is that because I actually own quite a bit of land on both, so I actually
own land in Decentraland, in the sandbox and in other sites as well.
So it's mainly metaverse related.
Yeah, metaverse related.
Metaverse related.
Got it.
I keep them all in separate wallets.
Got it.
Okay.
So you were a proposal author that was successful in Decentraland?
Yes.
Wow.
Nice.
Thanks.
And for sandbox style, it looks like you did vote on, oh, there's 14.
It says 14, but I saw that you also vote on the 15th.
I think it might just be like a snapshot error.
Yeah.
But you did vote on all 15.
Yes, I believe I did.
And it looks like you voted a mixtures of mostly yes, but also you were no stranger
to nos and abstains.
Yeah.
Whenever I needed, it's when I don't feel comfortable with certain proposals or if I
do not know enough, I will either vote no or abstain.
No if it's something that I feel that, okay, look, the proposal is clear cut.
I can't agree with that.
So it's a no.
Abstain will be when I feel like I don't have enough information.
So I wouldn't vote yes on hence, absolutely.
So you abstain when you don't have enough information, you will vote no when you don't
agree.
Yes.
Okay.
There we go.
There's our grading rubric.
All right, let's, I'm going to follow that away for later because I know there's another
question that builds off of that.
Where are you?
Oh, there we go.
Okay.
And in your delegate description, you list three things that you're going to represent
people if they choose you as their delegate, prioritizing progress, protecting the treasury
and make unpopular votes.
Let's hit the first one.
What, when you prioritize the progress of the ecosystem's future, what SIPs are and
what SIPs aren't doing that?
So I would say that a guiding principle for me in terms of prioritizing what the progress
of the ecosystem, I would say that any initiatives that contribute to the enhancement of the
end user's experience within Sandbox, primarily in GIMP, but also in real life, would be considered
the progress.
And more importantly, it also comes with a reasonable budget.
Okay.
And do you have any sort of idea what reasonable means there?
So I think it depends on individual projects.
It's hard to pinpoint what reasonable is considered across the board.
Because for example, when you're creating experiences, if it's a one by one experience,
you wouldn't be paying an author, say 250,000.
That would be beyond a reasonable budget.
Likewise, if you're holding an in real life event, it costs more, logistics, manpower
and all that kind of stuff.
So you expect to pay more.
So yeah, I think it really goes into a case by case basis.
Okay.
I get it.
Now that makes sense.
And can you think of any SIPs right now that do not meet that definition of progress of
the ecosystem's future?
So far, I don't think there is any.
But we'll have to see in the future.
I think so in terms of, like I said, getting what proposals come up for voting.
Our team has done a fantastic job in filtering out proposals that may not benefit the sandbox
as much.
Okay.
So you'd say that all of them right now that you've seen are progressing, are progress
of the ecosystem future?
Yeah, pretty much.
All right.
So the biggest question in my brain right now is, what about the ones you voted no against?
So voted no could be for a number of reasons.
Let me have a look.
So the last one you voted no for was staking budget.
Staking budget.
Oh yeah.
So with staking budget, honestly, if you ask me, the only reason why I voted no for staking
budget is because I find that staking, I don't know, it doesn't feel like there is a direct,
it doesn't directly help in the progress of the sandbox ecosystem.
I feel that the budget that's allocated for staking can be allocated to active projects
that will directly contribute to the ecosystem rather than just giving it off because people
are staking their sand and land.
Okay.
Got it.
And another one was you voted no on SIP 1 introducing the Sandbox DAO, which at that
point in time, I mean, we were all trying to figure out what was happening.
Right.
So I mean, okay, so the thing is with the Sandbox DAO, SIP 1, you kind of, or at least
for me, right, I kind of expected that there will be these confusion, especially from where
they were starting off from.
Most people I would say who are introduced to the Sandbox DAO will be very enthusiastic.
They will see, okay, look, this is new.
This is something novel.
We are moving at it with something that is on the Sandbox white paper for the longest
time.
And so, you know, I would expect that people would want to push this forward.
But then again, as I look through the proposal, you know, you notice a lot of issues such
as like there was no public consultation with the community.
There were no, I wouldn't say that there is any prominent community members that were
on board.
Yeah.
That would be nuts.
I wouldn't say it's a red flag, but maybe a brown one.
Yeah, so those, with all those little nitty gritty details, right, that were missed,
that I feel like it was also a missed opportunity to start off in a better foot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a really good way to put it.
It seemed like a missed opportunity.
It wasn't that it was bad or wrong.
It just felt like a missed opportunity.
I like that word a lot.
Yeah, so the thing is that I don't feel that there were ill intentions when the DAO team,
along with the sandbox team, when they came up with the proposal, I'm pretty sure they
wanted to kickstart this whole process with solid ground, with people who across the board,
not just the sandbox ecosystem, but in the crypto space, they are well known.
So these are names that the full school of the crypto ecosystem are there.
Yeah, but I feel like it could have done better with personal touch, with community members
involved, with the community being reached prior to all this happening.
Got it.
Okay.
And for the last three, that makes complete sense.
I'm with you, and I've heard a lot of the community reflect the same sentiment.
Some express a little bit angrier than that.
Others vote by not voting.
But I think it's a good middle ground.
So you realize once this starts, it really goes in all directions.
Yeah, it can get crazy.
Everyone has a different way of interpreting stuff.
They have a different direction.
Okay.
And the last three, when you said you vote abstain, it means you don't have as much information.
So 15, 14, and 12, all of them were you voted abstain.
I'm sorry, 15, 14, 13.
And what about those proposals?
Did you not feel you had information?
So honestly, some of it I feel indifferent.
Like for example, SIP, let's see, we get from, was it 13 that I voted?
13 was run a feasibility study for NFT evolution.
That was the NFT drafts.
Honestly, I have not much idea as to what the author is intending to do.
I kind of get what he's trying to do, the rationale behind it.
Beyond that, I don't exactly have a good idea of what's going on beyond in terms of execution
order.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then you voted abstain on mine, in turn.
Yes, right?
I know.
How could I vote abstain?
But okay, in my defense, you were leading in a number of guesses.
I promise.
You don't have to defend yourself against me.
Yeah, I was just wondering, was it unclear what I was asking for?
No, actually, honestly, when I saw that, it's just, I feel like it's something that could
have been executed by the sandbox team.
Sure.
It's probably the reason.
Yeah.
So the battle may have been going straight to them with the feedback.
So it was not a no.
It was just something that I feel in terms of the approach, like it could have been entirely
directed to the sandbox team.
That's fair.
That is a fair point to make.
And what about the metaverse and disability?
Same thing.
I have not enough information for what the author intends to execute.
So I wouldn't say yes or no on that.
Okay.
And so I did podcasts on all of them.
Were they too long form?
What was about that?
Sorry, I didn't catch the last sentence because it kind of dropped off.
Yeah, I did podcasts on all of them when I asked them questions.
Can you tell me about how that flow?
Do I take too long or is it not visible or is it not relevant?
Okay, if you ask me, maybe it's a little long.
So it's hard to capture key points.
That's a fair thing to say too.
Yeah.
That's a fair thing to say.
Because I think in this generation of stuff, everything is short form.
It's like, you know, get to the point.
No one information in the first minute.
That's fair.
So you don't know what you're talking about in the first one to two minutes.
Well, I appreciate that feedback.
With my current SIP for the Sandbox DAO, Sand DAO podcast, I mean, I want to hire some people
to make the key points videos because I'm just not gifted in that area.
I like the long form like we're doing right now, but I can understand that it's not very
digestible when it starts getting upwards like one, two, three hours even, some might
have been.
Yes.
No, I get it.
I get it.
I think that's a very fair thing to say.
Well, thank you for the feedback.
I appreciate that.
No worries.
That's how we all improve, right?
Yeah.
If there's no feedback, we will never know what's wrong and what's right.
What we're doing wrong, what we're doing, you know, what needs to be improved.
So number two aspect in your description says protecting the treasury.
How do you want to, how do you interpret when you use the word prudence and sensibility?
What does that mean?
So in terms of protecting treasury, right?
I'd say that, okay, let's maybe break down what, you know, the DAO, the two components,
well, at least this is the way I view the Sandbox DAO, right?
There are two primary components.
One cannot do without the other.
On one hand, you have the people and its project, right?
And on the other, you have the treasury.
You can have a treasury worth a billion dollars, but without people participating and building,
right?
That treasury will be worth nothing.
Likewise, on the other hand, with all the people and its potential, but without the
treasury, it would just be a get-together essentially.
So no people and projects, no DAO, no money, no DAO.
So a core part of what I'm proposing is to protect the other half, which is the treasury,
because you know, funds, when there's money involved, you will have bad actors coming
in, portraying as, you know, people who are here for the ecosystem, you know, here for
community building and all that.
That's what I want to protect.
So people who you don't believe are here for the right reasons are here to extract value
without giving anything in return?
Is that a fair way to say it?
Exactly.
Okay.
Yes.
So in terms of protecting the DAO with prudence and sensibility, right?
I think in terms of prudence and sensibility, we can put both components together and say
that, you know, for example, if a project comes in, they demand too much for too little
impact, would it be sensible to fund them?
You know, sometimes this kind of projects can sound good, right?
It can say, you know, you can promise the heavens and earth, but you know, the author
asks for $250,000 for such a project and we end up with little to no impact.
So yeah, that's what I intend to protect.
Okay.
I think that is very clear.
Very, very clear.
Thank you.
And for making unpopular votes, go ahead.
What do you mean by that?
Yeah, so, you know, a good example would be SRT1.
I think that would be kind of like the, I hope, okay, so let me make this clear.
I hope that I do not need to make unpopular votes on a regular basis.
In fact, I hope that, you know, with the model that we have right now, with the sandbox down,
we are able to filter out bad actors early on and then we present feasible projects to
the community for them to vote.
But in the case where if the dial team says, okay, look, this is our parameter, we, according
to this parameter, we've checked on the project, everything checks out, you know, they come
out for proposal.
If I find that, you know, it might not be so simple, I will in an instant put no, even
if the majority says yes.
What was that last part, even if the what says yes?
So yeah, if, so if the proposal comes out, if I don't feel comfortable with it, even
if everybody's voting yes, I will not vote yes in support of it.
It's just a benign thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
You hear it.
You heard it here first, folks.
If the intern does not feel comfortable, they will not vote the same way as everyone else.
And I think you could easily see that with with the voting history that the intern is
not at all afraid of voting no.
And it doesn't seem like it was like it's a punishment either you'd used on the ones
you didn't feel comfortable you voted no.
Yeah.
So, so yeah, I think you drive a good point there.
One thing I feel like is always commonly misinterpreted is that sometimes you know you're voting against
the order.
Sometimes, most of the times, you know, if the proposal is without malice, it's just
a proposal that doesn't sit well with whoever votes no.
Don't take it too personally, you know, there's always a chance to come back with a resubmission.
Yeah, that's a fair thing to say.
It can definitely feel personal.
Like I have to fight that against myself whenever mine didn't make quorum.
Like it felt, sometimes it felt personal that people didn't vote, not even just voting yes,
but didn't vote at all.
But then, you know, you kind of remind yourself that there's a lot of factors at play.
It might not.
It might not be because they don't like me or like me.
It might not have been the right thing for them to decide at the time.
Exactly.
Or it could be just, you know, at least something that I understand is that revolt going on
of like, you know, not voting to vote no.
Right?
To prevent proposals from hitting quorum, they decide not to vote so that, you know,
the proposal doesn't hit quorum and if it doesn't hit quorum, it doesn't pass and then
things go into a standstill.
Yeah, that's been happening for quite a while now.
But now, I don't think it's going to happen quite as often with each person getting two
million.
I am optimistic.
Yeah.
Let's go ahead.
Sorry.
Yeah, no, I was just, I thought that I got chopped off.
No, no, no.
And that two million changed the game.
I don't, I wasn't expecting it.
Were you expecting it?
No, not the strikers idea.
All I was expecting was just the opening, with the opening of the delegation that allows
anybody to delegate towards you.
And then I was expecting more of that, you know, once the delegates are out, they will
have to go on their own marketing campaign of sorts to get people, you know, to delegate
to them.
Yeah.
And then hopefully with that amount of extra votes, right, the delegates can push through
projects that are feasible and good.
And have you heard about whether it's land or sand or not either?
I assume that it's a mix because I think it comes from the main sandbox wallet, you know,
the one that everyone has been...
Oh, the 27 million one?
Oh, I'm sorry, not...
Yeah, I believe...
Was it 27 or 24?
I can't remember.
Yeah, right now, the one they vote, when sandbox vote, they vote with 27 million voting power.
Okay.
So I assume that it's coming from that wallet.
Okay.
Yeah, but they haven't given much details as to whether it is from there.
Okay.
So to me, I don't think it's that relevant.
Because anyway, the trucks of the issue these few months has always been that quorum hasn't
been hit and yet it upsets the community that the sandbox puts in their vote to hit quorum.
Yeah, that's been the source of disagreement as of late.
And now that you know that this 2 million is here, does it change your thought process
at all when it comes to voting?
Well, I think that right now, at least for me or even a majority of the delegates, you
will feel this responsibility on your shoulders.
Because now you're not just voting with your own VP, you're not just voting with people
who may have delegated to you, but you're also voting with 2 million voting powers as
well.
That's got to weigh on everyone's shoulders.
So you're not just voting with delegated power, you're also voting with what?
For example, right now, initially the talk was just that you will be using your own voting
power along with delegated VPs from say community members.
But now with that amount, you have that 2 million VP that is stacked up on it.
So the responsibility on our shoulders is much heavier.
Gotcha.
So that responsibility increases.
Yeah.
Yes.
Do you think that it would change you to vote yes on something you would normally vote no
or abstain on or vice versa?
I don't know.
I think at the end of the day, for me, the principles have become clearer.
So right now, with that three points that I mentioned to you about, those are kind of
like the driving principles that I will vote based off on.
In the past, it's mainly reading through the proposal, asking yourself if it feels comfortable
with you, then yes, no, abstain.
Simple as that.
Right now, you have to go through this whole guiding principles and think a little more
clearly, a little more in depth.
Okay.
And that makes sense to me.
I was really interested after I saw that 2 million voting power being announced.
What does that do to your thought process when it comes to the delegates?
I think you've laid that out pretty reasonably that you feel that excess, that extra burden
and responsibility.
And I'm interested to kind of understand that as things unfold.
How much does it change, if anything at all?
Would you have voted no or yes on something without the 2 million?
But now that the 2 million feels, you feel the responsibility of that, did something
about that change your voting?
I'm super curious to understand how that plays out over time.
If anything, I think with that extra burden, I feel that I missed.
Yeah.
Because the thing is that sometimes with all these proposals, unless you get direct access
to the authors or the authors approach you to explain a breakdown, what's going to happen
and everything.
Most of us are facing off our decisions on it.
It's a single proposal, a single word proposal.
The only thing that helps is if we go through interviews, you get to know the authors better,
you get to know the reasoning behind it.
So absent of all that, it's hard to make a good decision.
And so that's where you talk about the burden, the responsibility resting on your shoulders.
Yes, exactly.
So, you know, last time if you voted, you're a fraction of what?
That 2 million or your own voting power, it will be a fraction of the 2 million.
You will think that, oh, maybe it doesn't matter that much if I vote yes and it comes
up wrong.
But you would hope that the majority sees the truth, right?
Yeah, got it.
That is so fascinating.
Right on.
Thank you for for exploring that with me, intern.
I appreciate that.
I was wondering how to approach that.
So let's go with the type of SanFam voter that best fits your delegation style.
What are your thoughts on that?
Hmm, best fit.
That's a good question.
I think people who can relate to what I say, to the three points that I mentioned about,
I think those will be the ones because I mean, quite honestly, after seeing the voter profile
of the past 15 SIPs, you can see quite a wide variety of voters.
Some people vote because they feel that they love the proposal, regardless of how much
it costs.
Some people vote because of mainly the cost being a barrier.
Some people just, you know, they vote void based on ideals.
So for me, I think mainly the crop that I feel will be attracted to me will be the ones
who prioritize costing the finances.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Those who prioritize costing and finances, especially when you said talk about protecting
the treasury.
Yes, exactly.
Because at the end of the day, the treasury isn't infinite.
Right.
And there's always a cap to how much we can spend before it runs out.
So when it runs out, it goes back to the point of me saying that if we have all the people
and projects, but no money, it's not a dollar anymore.
It's a gathering.
It's a dream.
Yes, it's a dream, right?
You will be dreaming of having this project and funding that proposal.
By then you realize you open your wallet and you see nothing in there.
And there's nothing there.
Yes, exactly.
And then when the right proposal comes along, you realize, oh, we don't have the money for
that.
Right.
That would be an injustice.
Makes sense.
So can you just recount back in your memory banks there, what was the delegate process
like for you getting through from beginning to now?
Okay.
So I think in terms of the delegate process for myself, I think it differs a little with
what most people would experience.
So in the beginning, there's the application for the delegate that's uniform across the
board.
Everyone has to apply through the formal process.
They have to give details about themselves, their socials, their point of views, and all
that, et cetera, et cetera.
And then I think in terms of the interview, because I do actually engage a lot on a consistent
basis with the sandbox team in Southeast Asia.
So mainly George and Belinda, who handles Southeast Asia and Singapore respectively.
So they kind of, I believe, vouch for my integrity.
And with that, I think they kind of endorsed me for the position.
Got it.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I think that, you know, I mean, honestly, if you ask me, like interviews are great because
you get to hear the other person, but even with interviews, right, you know, honestly,
when we go for job interviews and all that, you tend to maybe not be a hundred percent
truthful.
So the only way to really prove is through regular engagements, you know, with the handle
stuff, with, you know, tied up together with the sandbox team.
They can see the way you perform, whether you can do it on time, whether you have integrity.
Yeah.
So I think that in a sense is, yeah, it was that experience that got me pushed through.
Gotcha.
And how did they tell you?
Was it via email or message or how?
You mean the results?
Yep.
How did you find out that you made it?
Oh, I found out through the webpage.
Same like everyone else.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know, when they announced it, everyone was like, oh, where is it?
Where is it?
Everyone found it through the sample style delegation.
There was no like, I don't think I resist the email.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
When I did the interview process, I really thought that there was an extra layer of understanding
and familiarity getting to articulate why I want to be a delegate.
And I got my response through email.
So they sent me an email and they explained, here's why we didn't select you.
And I thought that was really nice of them to do that.
Yeah.
I did.
I was like, well, no, I get it.
I get it.
So I appreciated that they took the time to write that to me.
Yeah, it definitely helps.
At least, you know, you feel like it's closure.
Right.
That's exactly right.
It felt like closure.
I felt like they were being very open about it.
And okay, even if I don't agree, at that point, I get it.
I understand.
So have you had to sign any additional agreements since becoming a delegate?
As of now, no.
Okay.
And I don't think they would want that, I would assume.
Because in light of the whole thing about favoritism and all the kind of issues that
people tend to imagine or tend to assume, I think signing any agreements would maybe
feel like we are tied together with the Dow team, even though obviously we are all in
separate entities.
Yeah.
I get it.
We all have different beliefs and order.
Thanks.
Makes sense.
And last question, very important.
Actually, it just occurred to me as I was watching your wallet.
Don't you have to get a.eth account?
.eth name?
Oh, yes.
Nope, I don't have one.
I actually do have one main one.
So it's the hiddenwalls.eth.
But you're not going to use that to be your delegate vote?
Yeah, I'm probably not using that because the thing is that with the...
So like I said, because most of my lands are all segregated, so using the...
I've actually allocated this address that I've allocated as a delegate is actually also
kind of like the main address that I use for my land.
So are you going to get a new.eth name for your delegate wallet here?
Maybe, maybe.
Who knows?
I thought I read that you had to have a.eth name in order to get a delegate.
So yeah, I think...
The rationale behind it was that they want...
So whenever you vote, your name appears on the sit-in itself, on the snapshot.
That's what I think the rationale is.
But it just makes it easier for people to know that too.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
So maybe we'll see.
So I think that the...
The thing is that with the snapshot, you can actually key in your name under your profile.
And I think that appears as well.
If I'm not wrong.
Okay.
So if you have to get one, you'll get one.
If not, then it'll be the wallet address that it's on the dashboard.
Yeah.
Okay.
That is the last question we had, intern.
Are you excited?
Are you excited to be a delegate and start delegating?
Or whatever the verb is?
I am, I am.
So it feels like, even though we've only been a couple of months old, or a year old, but
it does feel like we're in a new era, delegation is always interesting.
It does feel like we've entered a new stage of the sandbox style.
I completely agree with that.
Yeah.
And I think that honestly, if you ask me, delegation helps a lot because going through
the central end, you see that voter fatigue is very rare.
People want to engage, but it's up for every single person, every single community member
to on a consistent basis, to be reading through proposals.
It can get dry.
Gotcha.
Right.
So people will still want someone, they will still want to be involved.
They just want someone else to do the reading.
Yeah.
Someone else do the TLDR and just, yeah, just read it to me.
Something I wanted to touch on before we start to close out is there was a recent Medium
article on you just a couple of days ago at the Alpha Season 4 Creator Focus.
There was one sentence I wanted to ask you about.
You said that building is a big part of your identity outside of your usual work and it
was a stress reliever.
You mentioned earlier it was a stress reliever.
So what about is your, I know, I think now that you say talk about it being a big stress
reliever, I think maybe I have my answer.
Okay.
So you're looking for like the reason why I feel?
Yeah.
Why was it such a big part of your identity outside of your work?
Okay.
Yeah.
So I think that stress reliever will be in a nutshell description.
And I think that a lot, you see stuff like Roblox, a lot of the developers, most of them
start off with just a basic computer, trying creative stuff, seeing what sticks, what interests
them and then they go.
Yeah.
So I think it all boils down to that passion.
Makes sense.
I feel the same thing whenever I create.
I've written novels and composed music and I feel that same, sometimes it's a stress
reliever, but most of the time for me, it's just a passion.
It's like a, it's like an urge to bring something out of it.
And that's what it feels like to me.
There's something there.
There's something there I want to bring out into the world.
The process is so much fun.
It's like giving birth, except not too a baby.
Yeah.
So that was the last question I had.
Was there anything that you wanted to cover?
I think that's pretty much it.
I think, let me.
Yeah.
So, okay, maybe this is something that I can go into something a little personal.
I feel that now that for myself, I'm a delegate, my communication channels on X and this is
always open to anyone and everyone, including the authors as well.
It's good to have authors, you know, reach out to the delegates, explain the rationale
of the proposal, you know, be in a group setting or, you know, even in individual.
And I just like to put it out there, you know, when I make decisions on as a delegate in
the future, right.
The initial decision is always based on the best of my knowledge.
Right.
So if the authors feel that something is not right, you know, they feel that maybe I can
explain more or even if community members feel that, oh, why do you vote yes?
Maybe you should vote no.
My communication channels are always open.
At the hidden walls X.
Yeah, at the hidden walls X or 1010 on Discord.
Or 1010 on Discord.
Yep.
Awesome.
Well, thank you, intern.
I appreciate that.
Appreciate that.
Thank you for having me too.
So there's something I want to make you aware of and I'll send this to you on Twitter or
however.
So there are some spaces that people gather at specifically, you know about the Discord,
which is the DAO discussion channel, you know about the DAO forums, you know about Twitter,
you know about the YouTube channels.
What you may or may not know about are the X and Twitter spaces that happen where a lot
of Sand Fam, I say a lot, different collections of Sand Fam will gather.
On Monday, there's the Mochaverse hall and that's, they mostly talk about Sandbox and
also they'll talk about Apecoin DAO.
Then there's Bulls on the Block on Saturday.
They talk about Sandbox and Apecoin DAO.
They're also a landowner.
They're a delegation, they're a delegate themselves for the Apecoin DAO.
Monday through Friday is Coffee with Captain.
They're primarily Apecoin, although if Sandbox delegates start showing up, they've talked
about Sandbox in the past.
And then there's Well Members who, you know, they're one of the largest landowners.
They just started up their DAO, by the way, and I'm working on a proposal with them to
ensure that they vote on every single proposal in the future.
So there might be some synergy there when it comes to us participating in their DAO
and now your delegation or other delegates might be able to have a voice in that.
Yeah, now that you have 2 million of your own, it might not be such a big deal anymore,
but in any case, they have a Twitter space on Tuesday.
It's always good to listen in on what everyone's opinions are.
It's good to have the exposure so that you can make better decisions.
They have a Twitter space on Tuesday, and I imagine that as things and proposals for
SIPs start going through voting floors, there might be some interesting places where you
can talk about your views on there and just more channels to communicate.
But anyways, wanted to share that.
And I think we're just about good here.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
I really appreciate you taking the time to come do this.
No problem.
And you know, anytime you want to have a podcast, you know, maybe down the road you can have
a podcast with perhaps a few other of the delegates, four at one go, so that you can
brainstorm on stuff.
Yeah, that'd be great.
That's a good idea.
I didn't think about that.
Like a delegate panel.
Thinking out loud.
Yeah.
All right, intern.
Well, everyone, this is intern, also known as the hidden walls, also known as 1010, and
big, big into prioritize the progress of the ecosystem and protecting the Treasury with
prudence and sensibility and making the unpopular vote when it's called for.
And if that resonates with you, then please consider the intern as your delegate.
And on the website, you'll see it as the hidden walls has the mutant ape profile picture.
Intern, thank you so much for your time and hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
All right.
Bye, Sam Fam.