1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,200 Hello everyone. 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,360 Welcome back Sandow podcast number 50. 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:14,880 We have officially reached 50 episodes of the Sandow podcast and we've been at this 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:21,080 about about five, five and a half months, five months. 5 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:23,540 So that's a lot of episodes. 6 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:29,480 And mostly because this the content keep coming kept coming for the sandboxed out and that 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,520 nothing has made me happier. 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,980 There's been highs and lows been a little bit of a rocky road, but only because the 9 00:00:36,980 --> 00:00:38,240 Dow was fresh. 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,560 We're all learning we're all iterating and trying to mesh together to figure out what 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:50,440 is this this thing, this grand experiment that we have that we have started down. 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,160 The scope of today's talk is a reaction video. 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,880 It's a reaction video with some commentary, and it's mostly reaction video to the first 14 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:05,840 episode that was that was published from digging in the sand with Bobby Kunta. 15 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,760 And it was awesome. 16 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,120 It was so good. 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:15,160 So I am very happy spoiler alert where it ended in terms of the transparency that it 18 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:21,120 brought to the table, hence the reaction with the transparency nice little green checkmark 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,120 and a thumbnail. 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,480 So let's get to the disclaimer. 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,240 I do not represent the sandbox game or the sandboxed out foundation. 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,200 I'm not your financial legal advisor and nothing I say is to be taken as financial or legal 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,200 advice. 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,560 When we say the word SIP talking about sandbox improvement proposals, when I say Dow, I'm 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,440 talking about decentralized autonomous organization. 26 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,640 When I say the word SanFam talking about the sandbox community, those who participate in 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,680 the people, product and purpose of the ecosystem. 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,000 That ecosystem looks a little bit like this or into my opinion and how I put together 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:01,000 the different sectors of the people, everything from everyone from gamers to the sandbox team, 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:07,680 the product, everything from the game client to the Dow and the purpose, not just the original 31 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:14,600 white paper set off in 2020 about play, create own government and earn, but also the things 32 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:22,000 that are talked about by the co-founders Sebastian Bourget and Arthur Madrid and also Yetsoo, 33 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:29,160 chairman of Animoca Brands, where they talk about the sandbox becoming the cultural capital 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,960 of the metaverse and empowering creators. 35 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:40,040 All that together equals a thriving and vibrant ecosystem that we all talk about in the sandbox. 36 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,840 This episode is about the sandbox team and about the Dow specifically about a podcast 37 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,720 episode for the scoreboard and checkbook. 38 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,840 They haven't moved mostly because the sandbox Dow admin team is hard at work making sure 39 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,800 the delegation starts off that hitch. 40 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:02,040 I just finished, I just finished interviewing 10 of the 12 delegates. 41 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:10,000 So you can check all the previous episodes right up to episode podcast 50 where we, the 42 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,600 remaining two Mo and Roxy Miguel will, as soon as I'm able to schedule with them, I'll 43 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,560 finish those two delegate introductions. 44 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,920 I'm Lancer, your podcast host for the Sandow podcast, an unofficial podcast, not an official 45 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:27,120 one. 46 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,960 And I'm also president of MetaWorlds where we have two experiences. 47 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,200 One is Floor Droppers, which is currently in Alpha season four at zero zero. 48 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,080 And the second one is a game maker fund 2023 called Lava Defense. 49 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,560 How do we get here? 50 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,560 Why is this podcast episode happening? 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,760 May 28th, things were announced. 52 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:52,120 The Dow was announced via medium article, SIPs one, two, and three became available to vote. 53 00:03:52,120 --> 00:04:01,880 And then it kicked off a series of AMAs and SIPs that were voted on and ultimately passed. 54 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:10,400 Many AMAs, many different town halls that happened along the way and all culminating 55 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:17,080 in the Dow admin team announcing the new communications manager, Kunta on October 14th. 56 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:22,240 And then November 17th, about a month later, the first Digging in the Sand podcast episode 57 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:23,700 was released. 58 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:33,360 It was a dual both discussion with Cyril, the Dow administrator, and also survey results. 59 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,480 It was a bombshell of an episode. 60 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:42,000 It was so good in terms of revealing and disclosing the inner workings of Sandbox Dow. 61 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:49,620 So the Sandbox official podcast launched the same time as Bobby Kunta was brought on. 62 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:55,160 And as you can see, those first couple of videos were introducing Bobby Kunta. 63 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,000 I've done a couple podcast episodes on that already. 64 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:11,400 And you can check out episode 32 in order to see my reaction to... 65 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,160 Here we go. 66 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:23,080 Episode 32 was my reaction to Bobby Kunta's appointment and a very big, big sigh of relief, 67 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,400 breath of fresh air. 68 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,160 So that official podcast was launched at the same time. 69 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:38,080 And some things that preceded this episode, his first episode, was some things I highlighted. 70 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:44,020 The Dow Medium article that talked about progressive decentralization, SIPs, and the TSB Dow. 71 00:05:44,020 --> 00:05:50,560 It was launched here as a medium article. 72 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,820 And I did an extensive podcast on this one. 73 00:05:53,820 --> 00:06:01,480 And let's just say, up until this point, sentiment was not overly positive about the transparency, 74 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:08,240 the perception of the Sandbox Dow and the transparency. 75 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,080 And I did not mince my words at all when it came to this sort of stuff. 76 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:17,680 I was sometimes a bit harsh and my words reflected that. 77 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:24,080 Overall, I mean, we came a long way from episode one, talking to the community, different voices 78 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:33,240 in the community, where we spoke to Hoddle Hill and Andy Ritchie and the Vision X and 79 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:40,000 Crafter, some really, really well-known pickaxe master, really well-known names in the Sand 80 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:46,040 Fam community, and we talked about what we thought about the Sandbox Dow. 81 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,400 Most people were just confused. 82 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,280 What was a Dow to begin with? 83 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:53,600 What are we supposed to be doing in this Dow? 84 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,000 How do we participate? 85 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:02,720 And that persisted for quite a while as we were trying to grapple with this new entity 86 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,240 that most of us didn't even know what it was until May 28th. 87 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,200 And so that was me right there. 88 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,040 Episode number one, back on June 16th. 89 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:19,560 So about a couple weeks after the Sandbox Dow release, I started the podcast to try 90 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,280 and make sense of what the Dow was and what we were supposed to do. 91 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:31,960 And since then, we're now at 50 episodes on November 23rd, and transparency was tough 92 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,360 to come by. 93 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:39,480 And this podcast episode, episode number one of the official podcast, did wonders, did 94 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:47,360 so much in helping to bridge the gap that there was. 95 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,600 And just to give you an idea of how much I did not mince my words, let's just set the 96 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,720 stage for what is now. 97 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,480 The circumstances were a bit different back then, didn't have all the answers that I was 98 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,280 looking for. 99 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:08,960 And so here's what I thought, even up until recently. 100 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,360 Yeah, so here's setting the stage. 101 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,000 Freeds, that said, we heard the community's feedback and understand the concerns that 102 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:24,720 the current council members are not necessarily from, quote unquote, SanFam, creators or players 103 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,720 of the sandbox game, but reflect more institutional players. 104 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,600 And my note here was that in the beginning of the paragraph, it said, we've heard the 105 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,080 community's feedback. 106 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:39,840 And I wondered, where does the Dow admin team publish the feedback it acts upon? 107 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,120 I haven't seen that. 108 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,560 So the Dow admin team has received a lot of significant impact from the community. 109 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:52,200 And it'll be really helpful to see some communication from the Dow admin team on what feedback it's 110 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,200 implemented. 111 00:08:53,200 --> 00:09:02,000 So there's questions there from that article from October 7th of where is that feedback? 112 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,680 The Dow admin team received a lot of feedback. 113 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:06,560 There's a whole thing you can watch episode 33. 114 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:10,120 And I was a little bit harsh because at that point I was just frustrated. 115 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:16,440 I was frustrated at what I wasn't feeling like questions were being answered and transparency 116 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,240 being given. 117 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:27,120 Then came episode 31, the birth of the sandbox Dow, and that was a major excavation, let's 118 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,240 call it, of what I thought was going on. 119 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:39,460 I did all sorts of revealing maps and connections and things that I was trying to figure out 120 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:43,520 what was going on and was important to me and important to others. 121 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,480 I won't speak for others, but from what I've been hearing of the other community, this 122 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,280 was an important thing to figure out. 123 00:09:52,280 --> 00:10:00,320 Well, I'll play a couple clips from this episode and trying to figure out what is going on. 124 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:01,320 What are the connections? 125 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:02,320 Who are the players? 126 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,720 How do they relate to each other? 127 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,440 Not everything has been answered at this point, but quite a bit has been answered. 128 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:16,600 So the main part comes after doing the relationship map, whether or not the judging of a conspiracy 129 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,240 is happening. 130 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,080 If you're Web3 and you probably know what I'm talking about, like the secret cabal, 131 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,800 the Illuminati, all these things, and whether or not that was happening in the sandbox, 132 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:34,860 because at the time we didn't really have much information about how things were happening. 133 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:41,560 So I had to figure it out myself, as did others, and a lot of frustration had been built in 134 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:43,000 the meantime. 135 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:50,760 So here's a section of that part of episode 31. 136 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,440 So if you looked at this situation, you'd be forgiven if you thought that some weird, 137 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,680 funky, suspicious things are going on. 138 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:02,280 But on the balance of things, when I sat down and started listing out, what was the balance 139 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,600 of judging whether or not a conspiracy is afoot here? 140 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:08,600 I don't think so. 141 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,600 I don't think that's what's happening. 142 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:20,680 So even then, and this was not that long ago, October 21, episode 34, even then, when I 143 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,720 was weighing the balance of, is there a conspiracy going on? 144 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,480 Is funky things happening? 145 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,760 Or is this something that reasonable people would do? 146 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,120 And then I judged it weighed heavier that there are reasonable things happening. 147 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:39,800 But what you couldn't ignore was the downsides and some of the things that we felt was not 148 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:45,400 happening in line with transparency and the sort of things that we would expect of a DAO 149 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,160 that is community centered. 150 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:55,560 So the next part was explaining and the position of those who believe there was a conspiracy, 151 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:02,400 whether or not there was, and I didn't believe there was, but it was right to give credit 152 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,800 and the devil its due. 153 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:10,760 So here's one of the top two things that I listed as to on the balance of things was 154 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,760 something bad happening. 155 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,680 And things that I've heard the community say. 156 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:20,080 A number one is there was no transparency in what happened. 157 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,080 All right. 158 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,840 The DAO just emerged out of nowhere. 159 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,280 I didn't even know what a DAO was until May 28th when it was suddenly announced through 160 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,400 AMA's and articles and it was just thrust upon everyone. 161 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,400 All right. 162 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,200 So there was no transparency and even in the AMA's there was. 163 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,800 So we went over that there were some AMA's on the DAO, the road to the DAO, but even 164 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:50,600 then it was still, it still wasn't clear what was happening, why people were involved, who 165 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,920 they were. 166 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:57,360 And it seemed, not just myself, I'm not the only one who said this, it seemed more like 167 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,360 a press tour. 168 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,320 And Sarah acknowledges this in episode one, which is so many reasons why I love that episode. 169 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,300 We're going to go through it as a reaction. 170 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:11,000 But just to set the stage, at the time it seemed like a press tour, seemed like a big 171 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,920 grand rollout to everyone except for the San Fam. 172 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,160 The people who were voting expected to participate. 173 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,880 And Sarah explains this. 174 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,360 And one of the many reasons why I love that episode. 175 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:29,080 So that was one thing, that one big, one big negative thing that was hanging since May 176 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,200 28th when the DAO was announced. 177 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,560 And here's the second thing. 178 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:38,320 The second thing is just as important as the first one. 179 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:44,960 And arguably, I hear more complaints and more people angry about this one than the first 180 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:50,960 one is that there was an excessive urgency to vote and rush everything into existence. 181 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,080 Alright, here's what I mean. 182 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:01,480 So I go into the details of what that perspective is and why people were so angry about that 183 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,800 excessive urgency. 184 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Cyril talks about that as well here in this coming podcast. 185 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,800 So we're not going to get into those details. 186 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:15,880 We'll just get into, you can go back to episode 31, the timestamp is one hour and four minutes 187 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:16,880 in. 188 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,840 So that's kind of what we're talking about. 189 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,200 The groundswell of confusion, anger, frustration. 190 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:30,140 All of this was addressed in Digging in the Sand episode 1. 191 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:36,240 And that's why this episode that you're listening to right now is called Transparency Has Come. 192 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:42,080 A reaction to Sandell Podcast episode 1. 193 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,880 So that would be this one, this one right here. 194 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,960 Let's get into that. 195 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,280 And all the wonderful things. 196 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:56,140 I'm smiling as I could be listening to this podcast episode. 197 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:58,040 So that was the stage setting into it. 198 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:03,240 Me walking into that episode, all those things that I had podcasted on before. 199 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,920 Most of them were, most of the 50 episodes you're listening to right now, most of them 200 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,840 are interviews with SIPP authors. 201 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,360 Most of them are news updates. 202 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:19,220 Some of the later ones, starting about episode 30-ish, is when I start commenting on the 203 00:15:19,220 --> 00:15:24,160 rules and the lack of transparency, what I perceived to be the lack of transparency. 204 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,920 But here we are, Digging in the Sand, published November 17th. 205 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,600 So really just four or five days ago? 206 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,200 Yeah, five days ago. 207 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:43,520 Bobby Kunta, the new communications manager, he does this Digging in the Sand episode 1 208 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:50,880 with Cyril and addresses the elephant in the room and tackles the tough issues head on. 209 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:51,880 I loved it. 210 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,240 Absolutely loved it. 211 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,200 Let's get into the reaction portion. 212 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,680 You ready? 213 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,720 Oh man, that's exciting. 214 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,720 All right, Sand Fam, what's up? 215 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:02,720 We're going to jump right into the fun with this one. 216 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,720 Welcome to episode 1 of the official Sandbox DAO podcast. 217 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:06,720 I'm your host, Bobby Kunta. 218 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,960 We'll be Digging in the Sand every week, so this is just the start. 219 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,920 Let's address the elephant. 220 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:11,920 That's cool. 221 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,200 Digging in the Sand every week. 222 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Awesome. 223 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,520 NPC Avatar in the room first. 224 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,120 This is indeed a recorded closed format episode. 225 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,400 They certainly won't all be like this. 226 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,400 I know folks want more direct access to the DAO's admin team, including myself, but we've 227 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,280 got a lot of spicy topics to work through. 228 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,160 So when he first said that, like, this is a closed format, I really appreciated that 229 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:34,960 he came out and said that, and truth be told, I was rolling my eyes like, oh no, not another 230 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,800 press tour release. 231 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,840 Please Bobby, can we please address the tough issues? 232 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,640 And then the next sentence he says, we got to be like this. 233 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,360 It certainly won't all be like this. 234 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,320 I know folks want more direct access to the DAO's admin team, including myself, but we've 235 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,760 got a lot of spicy topics to work through. 236 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,600 We have a lot of spicy topics to work through. 237 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,800 And I'm like, hmm, okay. 238 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,520 Okay, let's see where this goes. 239 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,880 Bobby and I had spoken before, and we have had our own discussions between ourselves 240 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,520 about what I really wanted to see and what was possible. 241 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,160 And so we weren't strangers to each other talking through tough topics. 242 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,720 And now here he is about to go into an episode where he's saying up front, this is going 243 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:18,720 to be spicy. 244 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480 So we want it to be closed because we just, as he says, 245 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,120 And for nothing else other than just the sake of time for this podcast, we just can't take 246 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:25,120 more questions this week. 247 00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:30,480 Okay, and at that point, I'm like, all right, all right, let's give this a chance. 248 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,480 Let's give this a chance. 249 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,520 That's mostly all we're going to be doing anyways, is addressing questions. 250 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,560 So this episode is going to introduce myself a little bit, Sarah a little bit. 251 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,160 We're going to review what the DAO's mission is. 252 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,840 We're going to review also the real heart of this is the results from our recent community 253 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:41,840 poll. 254 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:42,840 We had 371 participants. 255 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:43,840 371 participants? 256 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,320 That's a good, good data set. 257 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:52,600 I would love to get my hands on that original data file so I can do things myself. 258 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,520 But I was able to, because he showed things, I was able to start my own kind of data on 259 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,520 that. 260 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:59,880 That'll be for another episode. 261 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,320 But this one is just strictly reaction to the transparency portion of episode one. 262 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,040 Now, some of them were people just trying to farm that sand reward there, but we'll 263 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,040 get into that. 264 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,040 We'll look at the raw results. 265 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,040 I love that he calls this out. 266 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,040 I do. 267 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,040 I really do. 268 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,680 Together, we'll also look at a summary of it. 269 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,480 And we'll start addressing some questions fielded from the community. 270 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Surprisingly, we got quite a few of them. 271 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,280 I think maybe people feel like they got their thoughts out in that poll because there was 272 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,560 a lot of answers in there. 273 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,440 Boy, did they ever. 274 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,760 If you go to this episode one and then you go to the results portion, you'll see he 275 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,600 shows, he screen shares the actual results and it is harsh. 276 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,640 It is so harsh. 277 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,000 And I appreciated that. 278 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:46,180 I knew we were onto something big when he started showing that in terms of Bobby being 279 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:50,280 transparent and following through with what he said when he came through in the first 280 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,320 episode or his introduction video. 281 00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:00,560 And I said earlier that was episode 32 where I do a reaction to his announcement. 282 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,560 And he said, I'm going to be I'm going to be more transparent. 283 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,200 I'm going to bring out that stuff. 284 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,640 I'm going to be building relationships and repairing in some cases. 285 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,920 There's some some really thoughtful ones that we'll go over together. 286 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,600 So future episodes of this podcast before we even get to introducing ourselves, I want 287 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,260 to let you guys even know what the heck this is all about. 288 00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:15,260 Why are we doing? 289 00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:16,260 We're going to be doing sand every week. 290 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:18,280 That's just it's not all going to be like us. 291 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,160 Cyril and I are just me running through recorded questions. 292 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,640 We want to have more open format AMA's. 293 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,640 We're going to have conversational co-hosted topics. 294 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,200 These can be topics that you guys, the SanFam community raise as things that you want to 295 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,200 hear us discussing. 296 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,200 We can have panel discussions. 297 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,120 I know folks want to have more access to the advisory board, the special counsel, maybe 298 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,120 bring in some. 299 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,120 Yes, absolutely. 300 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,120 Have the conversations that people want to hear. 301 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,400 There's going to be more interviews with various ecosystem stakeholders, including those folks, 302 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,400 maybe some of our new delegates, some ambassadors. 303 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,400 You know, we're just rolling out delegation. 304 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,720 We're going to talk quick about the delegation and the new submission guideline here today 305 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:44,720 as well. 306 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,720 We've got lots to get through. 307 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:46,720 So we're just going to get right into it. 308 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,720 You know, this is going to be your official home for sandbox Dow updates. 309 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,040 We'll keep it all as succinct, informative and transparent as possible. 310 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,040 We are all in this together. 311 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,160 You know, this is a grand experiment of progressive decentralization. 312 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,040 So if you're listening this far in, you're like three minutes into my rambling already. 313 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,120 You know, you probably share a common goal here. 314 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:01,120 That's okay. 315 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,400 This rambling is setting an important stage and already I can tell this episode is going 316 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,720 to be different than what I've seen in the past. 317 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,800 And I know the Dow admin team has been hard at work. 318 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,280 I submitted SIPs myself so I know they've been engaging. 319 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,400 There just wasn't that transparency that I was looking for to what in the world's going 320 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,160 on. 321 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,500 And this episode delivered on that. 322 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:29,560 So what I'm going to be doing is this first portion here talks about introductions and 323 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:37,600 then and then later on, Kunta talks about the original vision or the original vision 324 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,120 with zero. 325 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:46,240 Then they get into the SIP guidelines, which we're not going to go over this episode, nor 326 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,440 we're going to go over the poll survey results that I'll probably do another episode on. 327 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,760 But then we're going to fast forward to the conversation with Cyril and really stick to 328 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,800 the transparency piece of this of this episode. 329 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,720 Here I'm trying to build a long term sustain system for everybody. 330 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,240 So now it's up to all of us to build that foundation of trust and communication soon. 331 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,420 We're going to be welcoming anticipation. 332 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:06,720 So we're excited for the months and years ahead. 333 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,620 This is really this is just the start. 334 00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:11,280 So let's just jump back into this before we get to the community poll and the questions. 335 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,360 I want to take a few minutes to chat with my friend, colleague, fellow admin manager 336 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,360 zero. 337 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:16,360 Hey, Bobby, how's it going? 338 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:17,360 Happy to be here. 339 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:21,240 Yeah, I've been looking for quite some time for this first episode, to be honest. 340 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,200 So I'm very excited about shooting this first episode together. 341 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,780 I guess a few words about myself. 342 00:21:25,780 --> 00:21:26,780 So I'm zero. 343 00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:29,640 I've been working for the last 16, 17 years. 344 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,320 I've started my engineer at heart in telecommunication and electronics in general. 345 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,200 So nothing really destined me to working in Dow or most of the previous job. 346 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:44,840 I got to be honest and already you can tell if you've seen the AMA's before this is different 347 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:51,120 serial and his previous podcasts with other podcast hosts outside of the sandbox network 348 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,500 like NFC Lisbon and others that he he podcasted with. 349 00:21:55,500 --> 00:22:00,920 You could you could tell that he was it seemed like he was more in advertising the Dow mode. 350 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,380 He was talking about what the why the Dow came to be. 351 00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:10,480 But it was always from a perspective of like, like more of a public relations thing, not 352 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,480 really something that a SanFam person needed to hear, not the the inner workings for why 353 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,120 is it here in SanFam now with these people? 354 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:24,160 He didn't really go into that portion more of progressive decentralization and kind of 355 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,040 the buzzwords that you hear. 356 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:34,160 But this episode right now, he's already talking about himself relative to sandbox ecosystem. 357 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,880 And I'm already loving it. 358 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,120 I'm already learning things about him. 359 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:46,160 I knew he was an engineer, but you know, kind of how it weaves together into his his present 360 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:51,000 day circumstances that he's you're already starting to see that happen right here. 361 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,400 I've been 10 years in banking. 362 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,400 I was HSBC. 363 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,480 I was a product manager and then I had a product management team. 364 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,720 So you're not really building apps for the clients and you know, the staff as well. 365 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,760 And then I moved over to the insurance industry, so seeing financial services, I worked for 366 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,760 IOS partner for four years. 367 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,520 I was an exec there and I constructed and headed up their product team as well. 368 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520 Start doubling in crypto as a hobby first, like four years ago. 369 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:12,520 Cool. 370 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,120 That told me exactly what I needed to know. 371 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:16,080 First off, how long have you been in crypto? 372 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,080 Zero. 373 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,080 So four years. 374 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,080 Okay. 375 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,080 Cool. 376 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,760 And I've done some pro bono works for a collective of freelance called fleet and the fleet collective. 377 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,120 Oh, right, right, right. 378 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,120 Fleet collective. 379 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:34,760 So in my in my episode 31 was 31 that the birth of the sandbox style. 380 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,960 Yeah, 31. 381 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,920 Yeah, birth the sandbox. 382 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:46,640 I did a relationship map and it was it was here and then I revealed this during the course 383 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,320 of the episode. 384 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,120 And I think I don't think I got all of it right. 385 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,440 I asked the admin team to help me out a little bit where I got it wrong. 386 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,040 They weren't able to answer all the questions I needed in time for the episode. 387 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:09,720 So I think I misrepresented the or miscalculated the the role that fleet collective had in 388 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:10,720 it. 389 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:11,720 I wasn't really sure. 390 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,680 And I noted that that I wasn't exactly sure their role. 391 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,520 And so Cartan group, I did know their role. 392 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,920 I did find their connection to eight point Dow. 393 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,160 I'm pretty sure I got this portion right with the Maples group and Travers Thorbell Berga 394 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:31,520 and ICSL and IPAL IP and a I'm pretty sure I got them right. 395 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,220 But I wasn't quite sure about fleet collective. 396 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:39,800 So here he talks about how his how he did work for fleet collective. 397 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,360 I didn't know that actually. 398 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,600 So I think I got that portion wrong. 399 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,120 I look forward to updating it so that it is accurate in the future. 400 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:51,280 And then, you know, then I can feel satisfied that I know who the players are and how they 401 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,000 work together. 402 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,160 Because in our world, the SIP author world and the business world of San Fam, we need 403 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,000 to know who we're doing business with when you know how these players come together. 404 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:07,240 Because when I write SIPs and I'm writing about, you know, revenue options, I have some 405 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,800 of the top consulting firms in the world waiting for partnerships on these SIPs if they get 406 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,280 approved. 407 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,440 And there's a lot more that needs to know than just a DAO admin team. 408 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,560 There's got to be more discovery there in order for a relationship to exist in the way 409 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,080 that I need it to to be successful for the SIP that I'm authoring. 410 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,680 And I'm not the only one who's in that position where we we need to know who we're doing business 411 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:32,680 with. 412 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,000 We need to KYC in reverse, KYB in reverse. 413 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:43,920 And that's just necessary for some of these these complex and impactful SIPs to be successful. 414 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,040 And so that wasn't known. 415 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,880 And I had to spend, you know, six, 72 hours Google searching to figure it out. 416 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,360 And I still got it wrong. 417 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,120 But I was able to get at least some of it right. 418 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:01,880 And so hearing Cyril here talk about his background and the connections that to that episode that 419 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,880 I did. 420 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:09,680 And it was very helpful for me to try and to take a step back to say, okay, okay, I 421 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,880 think I got some of it wrong. 422 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,600 I want to fix it. 423 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:18,500 But also I can kind of unwind my own frustrations of having to figure this out myself instead 424 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:22,160 of it being presented to me as hey, here is what the DAO is made of. 425 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,720 What I've done for them is working on DAO and paying attention to the subject of progressive 426 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:26,720 decentralization. 427 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Then what happened? 428 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,320 I got fed up with my job and decided to... 429 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,320 I love that. 430 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,840 He got fed up with his job. 431 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,240 Such, such good. 432 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,240 This is a different Cyril. 433 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,080 I don't mean that in a negative way. 434 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,820 It's just here he's he's conversing. 435 00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:39,820 He's just talking. 436 00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:40,820 He's discussing. 437 00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:43,160 He's he's being our DAO admin. 438 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:49,240 He's not being the DAO admin to the external world, you know, talking on a stage. 439 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,200 He's our DAO admin right now. 440 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,200 I can feel that. 441 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520 I can feel that he's talking to me. 442 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:56,520 It's cool, man. 443 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,520 It's so cool. 444 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,920 We start my own company, Arsakio, which is the admin of this DAO that we all love. 445 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,800 And basically, a specialized... 446 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:04,800 And we do love this. 447 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,800 I love this DAO. 448 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,400 ...myself into, you know, building, designing and then administering DAO from the ground 449 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,400 up. 450 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,920 And then we have a DAO that we brought into the sandbox like a year and a half ago to 451 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,000 start as a head of decentralization to start working on the principles. 452 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,000 A year and a half ago. 453 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,000 All right. 454 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,760 So I guess that one, I judge that one. 455 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Okay. 456 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,320 ...you know, what a DAO could be, right? 457 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,080 So the DAO has been announced in end of May this year. 458 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,160 It's already, you know, a couple of months old already. 459 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,720 It feels like two years ago, but this is really a DAO. 460 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:35,040 And it almost, it kind of was when you hear later on how early he was brought into this. 461 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,320 ...that is still in his infancy. 462 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,560 And my role really there is to interact with the sandbox and the liaison, if you want, 463 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,000 with the sandbox leadership team and the liaison with the council. 464 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,080 I'm also making sure the systems, you know, are running and we've got, you know, lights 465 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,360 on and grease and everything is running well and everybody is equipped to do their job 466 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:50,360 properly. 467 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:51,360 So... 468 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,960 That's not the first time he's explained what his job is, but it's the first time he's explained 469 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:03,200 it in a way that spoke to a SanFam DAO voter and a DAO member. 470 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,560 He's there to keep the lights on. 471 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,480 He's there to make sure that machine is well oiled, that all the parts are functioning, 472 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:18,520 the tech stack, the staff, to make sure that the ecosystem of the DAO is well run. 473 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,040 And I'm going to be doing an ecosystem of the DAO episode in the future, talking about 474 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,480 the inner mechanisms of how does the DAO go from step to step? 475 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,200 How do all of the different SanFam ecosystem people interact? 476 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,880 I'm so looking forward to that one. 477 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,880 It's going to be... 478 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:33,880 I'm going to love that. 479 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,880 I'm looking forward to it. 480 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,160 A few more episodes we have to do before I get to that though. 481 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,400 I'm really happy to be there and having the chance to answer most of the community's concerns 482 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,600 to the best of my abilities with you today, Bobby. 483 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Yeah, excellent. 484 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,640 Yeah, thanks for sharing a little bit of your background there, Cyril. 485 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,920 I know people are eager and interested to get to know who's working on the admin team 486 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:52,920 here. 487 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,920 So the more chances we get to get out in front of people, the better. 488 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,560 So, I mean, if you're listening to this and you're interested in who I am, you're probably 489 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:57,560 watching this on YouTube. 490 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,800 And we are. 491 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:05,840 But Kunta already spoke to us as our communication manager in the introduction. 492 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,840 And in episode... 493 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:12,080 I think I mentioned this one earlier too. 494 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,760 In episode 32, right? 495 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:24,900 In episode 32, I commended Kunta for how open he was from the get-go in his introductory 496 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:25,900 video. 497 00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:29,160 So the first video we posted is me introducing myself. 498 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,720 So you can go get that whole six minute ramble there. 499 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,680 But for a recap, I'll let folks know, I've been building communities actively for about 500 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,920 30 years now since 1995. 501 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,000 And if you'd like to hear his story and how he got to there, his DMs are open. 502 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,480 And he communicates with... 503 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,440 I mean, he's communication manager, but he really communicates. 504 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,200 And you can always hear his background. 505 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,640 And I won't spoil it, except for what he's revealed. 506 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,040 And it's really cool. 507 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,040 Very, very cool. 508 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,360 I started throwing punk rock shows and raves under bridges and warehouses in and around 509 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,360 New York City. 510 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,760 And really ever since then, it's been about bringing people together around some kind 511 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,480 of common causes or feelings or products. 512 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,120 And so I've worked in a lot of different industries across those decades. 513 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,880 But I've been in gaming and crypto for the last five years. 514 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,160 I was a sandbox ambassador for four years, a landholder, sandstaker, really bullish, 515 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,120 obviously, on all things Web3, especially metaverse and gaming. 516 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,280 I'm still like an old school gamer. 517 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680 I love the Nintendo NES, the Super NES. 518 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,120 Honestly, we're talking games, even just playing chess, I share some tabletop games, even stuff 519 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,120 like that. 520 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,120 So a bit more old school, more retro. 521 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,400 But I love seeing those things like this, like a pixelated metaverse come to life where 522 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,560 there can be monetization and community building. 523 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,960 So I'm bullish on all things sandbox. 524 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,880 And I think that's pretty apparent from everything I've said about the sandbox. 525 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,320 So this is really cool to be here and sitting with Serral building the DAO together with 526 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,320 the folks that are all out there listening to this. 527 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,840 So if you know where to find me, I'm happy to meet with community members one to one, 528 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,840 too. 529 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,840 That's really what my role at the DAO is. 530 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:51,840 And he does. 531 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,840 We're kind of like traffic managers of some kind. 532 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,320 We have different areas of towards these common goals. 533 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,840 We kind of all have our hands in each of the two different degrees. 534 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,040 My focus is, you know, the social media community engagements and all things communications are. 535 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,480 So that's a bit about my background, what it is that I'm doing at the DAO. 536 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,520 You know, I think from here, what we want to discuss a bit is just what's the vision 537 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,760 that the sandbox originally had. 538 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,400 So here's that second portion. 539 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,360 The what's the original vision? 540 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,080 And what is the mission of the DAO? 541 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:24,240 So here we start getting into the meat of the transparency piece. 542 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,400 For the DAO, what the mission of the DAO is and then what the mission of Digging in the 543 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,200 Sand podcast is going to be just to kind of set the tone for the rest of this conversation 544 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,200 as well as just the rest of the series. 545 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,200 And so people know. 546 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,200 Yeah, thanks, Bobby. 547 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,320 I really love what you say about retro gaming as well. 548 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,520 It's a perfect segue with the sandbox, right? 549 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,880 The pixelated world about a vision, right? 550 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:41,880 Why does sandbox on this really? 551 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,120 Like if you listen to what Serral has been saying, and I've been lucky enough to see 552 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,680 him performing on stage, right? 553 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680 I think he's referring to NSC Lisbon there. 554 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,120 The vision from the beginning of the sandbox was to empower the community, right? 555 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,120 It was huge. 556 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,000 So we talked about that in the ecosystem in the very beginning, how Sev is frequently 557 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:01,000 talking about empower creators and he wants the sandbox to be the cultural capital of 558 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,160 the metaverse. 559 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,680 User generated content from the start. 560 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,040 First of all, he started as let's build a video game where people we give people the 561 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,840 tools so they can be their own version of the video game, right? 562 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,640 So it was first of all a video game, then how we can transfer that to through game makers 563 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,560 of OXEDD that wasn't called that way at the time. 564 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,400 How we can give people the power to actually create their own experiences and be the master 565 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,520 of their own universe because getting into the video game industry is super hard. 566 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,000 Like you really have to work your way up and be able to actually work in the passion project 567 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,000 that you love. 568 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,000 And we all love video games, right? 569 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,000 But we know it's really hard to get into that. 570 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,960 So I think the original vision for that was to let's make it more accessible. 571 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,400 Let's make sure everybody gets a chance at creating video games. 572 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,840 So it really felt like the natural transition from that particular state was more empowerment 573 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,840 to the community. 574 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,080 And that's why I think the idea of the DAO came to fruition by empowering community 575 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,480 members to take participation into decision making more and more. 576 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,080 We're gradually transitioning from a regular company to something where now the community 577 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,080 has a bit more say, right? 578 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,320 Like we've seen it with a couple of SIPs. 579 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,140 We've seen it with this whole ambition of putting this DAO forward. 580 00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:59,280 And really the DAO's mission now complement the sandbox mission by being an extension 581 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,120 and the idea of the betterment of the metaverse ecosystem by including more and more the community 582 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,680 in the decision making process. 583 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:11,800 So here is where now granted five days ago, I told you what the buildup was to all this, 584 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,720 the frustration, the anger, the resentment that the community felt that I felt. 585 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,320 And so I'm listening to Cyril talk about how the community is going to be involved. 586 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,640 And I'm sitting here thinking, have we been though? 587 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,320 We've been somewhat, but not to the extent that I would qualify that whole statement 588 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,320 of what you just said. 589 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,080 So this was me six days ago as I was listening to this and taking notes and preparing to 590 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,560 do a reaction video. 591 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,980 I already felt like he's talking to us. 592 00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:44,520 Like I feel like this is the Cyril that this is the real Cyril, the Cyril that is SanFam's 593 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,060 DAO administrator. 594 00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:53,000 And so I'm already kind of loosening up and there I think, man, but can we do more of 595 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,320 that please instead of feeling like the sandbox team is running the show, the sandbox DAO 596 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,800 team is running the DAO and not the voters. 597 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,080 So that's what I was thinking at that exact moment listening to this. 598 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:13,600 And my vision, excuse me, my perspective quickly gets turned around with the rest of this episode. 599 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,320 Yeah, excellent. 600 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,400 I think the formal mission of the DAO is, let me say, I'm going to read this one. 601 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,880 The sandbox DAO exists to put the future of the metaverse in the hands of the sandbox 602 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,800 game community fostering collaboration, creativity and economic opportunity. 603 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,720 So I think we're pulling it off pretty well so far. 604 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:28,920 It's just a matter of keeping the people engaged. 605 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,920 And I agree. 606 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,880 I think we are pulling it off really well so far. 607 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:33,960 There's always room for improvement. 608 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:40,280 You can always find nitpicky things to get at someone or throw a spear or whatever. 609 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,200 But ultimately, yes, that is happening. 610 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:50,240 And Sandow podcast 49 that we just finished with the SIP 12, the sandbox academy in the 611 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:57,260 Philippines, they just educated 90 students on GameMaker and VoxEdit. 612 00:34:57,260 --> 00:35:04,520 That was a fully funded SIP to do six, five workshops in the Philippines to create an 613 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:12,400 academy to teach students about the sandbox, the DAO, how to become GameMaker and VoxEdit 614 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,600 to succeed in the sandbox. 615 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,460 He just finished educating 90 people and he's only halfway through, halfway through the 616 00:35:19,460 --> 00:35:21,720 four day event. 617 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,300 That right there is impact. 618 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:28,480 It's the DAO helping the sandbox ecosystem. 619 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,480 Take a look at that. 620 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,920 Go watch episode 49 with Mark Bagow, who is the founder of Sandbox Academy. 621 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,200 And now it's starting to go international with Saudi Arabia and India and Ecuador. 622 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,200 Take a look. 623 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,200 It's awesome. 624 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,200 I'm bored here and we're going to have more of a conversation about really what that means. 625 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,600 That's part of what the mission of the Digging in the Sand podcast is now to segue to that. 626 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,960 We want to be able to bring the community, the most accurate and up to date information 627 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,200 regarding administrative and just operational happenings from the core team. 628 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,280 Administrative and operational happenings of the core team. 629 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:03,000 And I think that that's where Sandow podcast and the official Sandbox podcast might be 630 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,900 able to differentiate themselves. 631 00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:05,900 We don't know yet. 632 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,520 Kuta and I are still talking through it. 633 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:09,520 What overlap should there be? 634 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,160 What shouldn't there be? 635 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:17,020 And it starts to look like he's more focused internal to the admin team and giving us updates, 636 00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:18,800 the transparency piece. 637 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:19,800 And I'm more about the external. 638 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,160 You know, the talking to the SIPP authors and talking to different community members. 639 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,920 He's going to do the same thing. 640 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,200 We're both going to talk to community members, but I'm going to be focused for more of an 641 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,880 outside point of view. 642 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,640 Looking in, you can call it a fact checker, but it's not quite that intense anymore. 643 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:41,800 I don't feel if we keep going down this route where he is unleashing the transparency of 644 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,560 the inner workings of the Dell, I have no doubt that I'm just going to be simply augmenting 645 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,840 that from the external point of view and we're all building together. 646 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,400 And addressing the most pressing community topics, the things that you guys are raising. 647 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,320 This show, Digging in the Sand, will serve as a place for informal conversation for the 648 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,320 community at large. 649 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,040 And I already feel the informal part. 650 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,840 And I really appreciate that, Kuta. 651 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,240 I really appreciate how you brought that to life with Serial here. 652 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,440 You know, eventually just bringing some folks up to have some that open content podcast. 653 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,800 We're really doing this to advance that DAO's ultimate mission of just empowering the community 654 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,720 to improve the greater Sandbox ecosystem. 655 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,000 So that's actually right there is a great... 656 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,000 Love it. 657 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,000 Love it. 658 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,480 So right here we get into the SIP guidelines updates. 659 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:27,320 I do a whole episode on SIP guideline updates and the old process in May versus a new process 660 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,400 that was just established in October. 661 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,400 And again, that was a little bit of a... 662 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,840 There was a little bit of frustration there in my voice, although I kept it as positive 663 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:37,840 as I possibly could. 664 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,120 And I think I achieved that portion where there's still a lot of questions as to how 665 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,280 it's going to be implemented. 666 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,120 But then again, in this episode, Serial also addresses that. 667 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:54,280 So when I do part two of this and I cover the mechanics of the SIP guideline updates 668 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,600 that Serial talks about and the Pulse Survey results, then that'll be a complete circle. 669 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,480 But for now, I'm going to skip to the conversation with Serial and the port that unleashes the 670 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,360 transparency that I've been looking for and that so many others have been looking for 671 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,900 since May 28th when the DAO was announced. 672 00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:20,240 So it all begins 3221, or it continues in 3221. 673 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,400 We've already learned a bit about Serial, but here in 3221, they start talking about 674 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,120 the decisions that were made up until this part. 675 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,600 And just get ready. 676 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:33,600 It is fabulous. 677 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,600 Superb. 678 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,200 All right, but yeah, I just wanted to say, you know, in the way we selected... 679 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,200 Cheers. 680 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,440 All right, but yeah, I just wanted to say, you know, in the way we selected those questions, 681 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,360 as you would realize, we didn't select the questions that we wanted. 682 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,360 We really selected the question that we saw. 683 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,640 And the questions they're talking about are the questions they posed and the type form, 684 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,140 the survey. 685 00:38:54,140 --> 00:38:55,480 And the questions were like... 686 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,480 I don't recall all the questions right now. 687 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,400 Actually, we can just see here. 688 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,360 What interests you in participating in the DAO? 689 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,360 How would you describe yourself? 690 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,400 What kind of role do you feel best suits you? 691 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,840 And then they had like an open question of different results of what do you think? 692 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,040 In your own words, what are your chief concerns about the DAO? 693 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,760 In your own words, what most interests you about participating in the DAO? 694 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,800 How do you see the long-term success of the DAO? 695 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,400 And as he goes through this, as he's going through this, you can just see the blunt answers 696 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,440 people are giving. 697 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,000 I don't feel heard. 698 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,140 Who is this? 699 00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:36,640 I don't feel like the advisory council or the special council or the advisory board 700 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,080 is representing the community. 701 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,340 I don't feel heard. 702 00:39:39,340 --> 00:39:41,400 There's lack of transparency. 703 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,840 Are we really decentralized? 704 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,400 Like all of these, they go through. 705 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,880 And now they're going to talk about with Cyril, what the perspective was of the DAO admin 706 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,840 team, which is what was missing this whole time. 707 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,000 We did not know what the DAO team believed. 708 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,040 We saw articles, we saw PR, public relations, marketing buzzwords. 709 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,640 We didn't hear from our DAO admin team about what was happening. 710 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,680 This solved that. 711 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,160 And it solved it well. 712 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,360 So in my opinion, it solved it well. 713 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:17,360 So let's get into that. 714 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,960 All right, but yeah, I just wanted to say, in the way we selected those questions, as 715 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,320 you would realize, we didn't select the questions that we wanted. 716 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,680 We really selected the question that we saw were the most, the comments, I mean, were 717 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,280 the most prominent in all the feedback we've got. 718 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,160 So some of these are hard questions, to be honest, and we don't shy away from them. 719 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,320 So I just wanted to point this out that we did not sugarcoat it and really selected the 720 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,320 easy ones. 721 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,320 We really selected the one. 722 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,840 And it was obvious by this point in time that that's exactly what happened. 723 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,840 They selected the hard questions and they went over those hard questions during the 724 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,440 results portion of this video. 725 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,440 I skipped over that. 726 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,980 I'll do a separate podcast on that because I have my own thoughts that I wanted to expand 727 00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:56,480 separate from transparency. 728 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,040 One that we thought was the most important for the community based on numbers alone. 729 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,580 That's it. 730 00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:04,760 And so what we distilled this down to is ultimately the bullet pointed list that you see on your 731 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:05,760 screen here. 732 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,960 I feel heard special counsel and advisory board selection and what their roles exactly 733 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,960 are, how they're compensated. 734 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:10,960 Those are in question. 735 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,880 There's a perceived lack of transparency, people feeling rushed, like especially the 736 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,160 first few sips were rushed. 737 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,800 You know, there's this progressive decentralization that's taking place. 738 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,480 We want to refer people to that medium article, but you know, we've got to discuss what that 739 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,520 really means, you know, what the grand experiment of rolling out a Dow slowly over years really 740 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:26,520 looks like. 741 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,520 And some of it we're not sure. 742 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:28,520 We're making this up as we go. 743 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,360 You know, we're learning from other case studies and we're doing the best thing. 744 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,360 I can't believe he just said that. 745 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,860 That's so cool. 746 00:41:36,860 --> 00:41:38,320 We're making this up as we go. 747 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,000 And they're not literally just making up everything as they go. 748 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,000 They are planning. 749 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,480 The Dow admin team is planning and putting a thoughtful approach into this. 750 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,280 So it's not just like willy nilly, let's just see what happens. 751 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:57,280 They are, they are being responsible and planning the, so as a fellow program manager myself, 752 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,520 I can appreciate that. 753 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,280 I can appreciate that. 754 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,320 Impossible to advance things as we can using the best strategy. 755 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:04,680 So the transparency and decision making. 756 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,800 I mean, that's sharing those decisions with you in the best way possible. 757 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,360 Striking a balance between that, that transparency and efficiency is also just a question. 758 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,680 Like when, when and how that has to happen. 759 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,960 You know, we can't, it doesn't even make sense to tell everybody everything, but even in 760 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,000 Sarah's weekly reports, you know, you have a behind the scene screen. 761 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,320 That was so cool when he started doing those weekly reports, the biweekly reports. 762 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,420 Now he was sharing the SIPQ. 763 00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:30,120 He shared his actions that he was on his workload. 764 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,300 That was awesome. 765 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:33,840 And I was really appreciative of him doing that. 766 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,400 He started that, I think a couple months ago. 767 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,400 He didn't do it every week. 768 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,980 He didn't do it all biweekly. 769 00:42:38,980 --> 00:42:40,380 Sometimes he took some weeks off. 770 00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:46,200 So that was, that was my, my one source of real transparency was that. 771 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,040 And it helped, but it didn't answer the question. 772 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,720 What was going on? 773 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,560 What were they, what, what was their thought process? 774 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,560 How did they get to there? 775 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,560 What, what are their intentions? 776 00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:00,760 Because there was a lot of mistrust, at least for me, I didn't trust the Dow admin team 777 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,120 from what I saw. 778 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,080 It was frustrating for me and I was trying to say as positive as possible because I love 779 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,080 the sandbox. 780 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,880 I love the Dow and I wanted to trust the Dow admin team, but I felt like that trust kept 781 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,680 on getting eaten away over time with the lack of transparency. 782 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,360 But this restored that by the end of this episode. 783 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,440 A shot of what our, our notion looks like. 784 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,500 You know, what, what we're discussing on our Slack channel. 785 00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:25,080 So we're as transparent as we can be here. 786 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,720 Staking, you know, just. 787 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:30,380 I would love access to the notion channel, by the way, if we're allowed to have that 788 00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:31,720 publicly releasable. 789 00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:36,280 I just did a podcast episode with the Bankless Dow now called Black Flag Dow. 790 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:44,320 They have a notion website that is so, so here's what it looks like. 791 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:53,400 They have an, a public transition plan for their Dow and it is awesome. 792 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,400 Where is this thing? 793 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,160 There's a transition council. 794 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,480 Where is the, there, this, they've got themselves integrated master schedule. 795 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,720 Showing all the stuff that they intend to carry out in order to, to transition in their 796 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:10,480 Dow from one, one branding to another. 797 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,920 And this is cool, man. 798 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:18,280 If Sandbox has something like this, please consider releasing it. 799 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,320 It would solve most of my problems. 800 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,560 It would solve most of my, my concerns. 801 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,080 And a lot of them are solved already just by this episode. 802 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,320 As long as we keep doing it, then we'll have achieved everything I need to know to be a 803 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,520 functioning member and really just focus on SIPs and building and podcasting news updates 804 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,240 instead of podcasting confusion. 805 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,640 Discussing what that really means, how people can use their state sand and what the future 806 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,240 of stating is for, for the Dow, what that means. 807 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:46,920 The Dow operating in a gray area landscape. 808 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,200 So unpacking just what, what people think by those kinds of comments. 809 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,880 So we're talking regulation. 810 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,920 We're talking the uncertainty of, of regulatory agencies and their view on crypto. 811 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:04,680 And if you Google search, you know, you'll find all sorts of stuff about that. 812 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,880 Not just the United States government, but many other governance governments and their 813 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,200 stance toward crypto and by extension, DOWs and blockchain entities. 814 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:22,040 So the, the, the Dow admin team is, is carefully been considering the risks and implications 815 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,240 of that. 816 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:30,600 So as we found out, as I found out through this podcast and another comments in the forums 817 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:37,540 that that that's a concern and they want to ensure that they are stepping carefully through 818 00:45:37,540 --> 00:45:41,040 what is the reality of how the world views crypto and blockchain. 819 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,040 And I get that. 820 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,240 I can, I can understand that. 821 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:45,560 I just, I just want more transparency. 822 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,960 I just want more. 823 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,480 And, and this podcast episode did a long, long ways to get there. 824 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,160 You know, questioning the Dow's operations again, like Sarah led, you know, like Sarah 825 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,720 said, we're not shying away from these, these challenging topics. 826 00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,920 So hopefully that's appreciated by the Sanfam out. 827 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,680 It is Kunta and Cyril and the rest of the Dow admin team. 828 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,160 I'm not going to dox their names. 829 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:10,000 I know that they've been talked about before openly, but for the rest of the Dow admin 830 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,000 team, Cyril, Kunta, this is appreciated so much. 831 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,000 Oh my gosh. 832 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,160 So much is this appreciated. 833 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,400 The language barrier problem is very real. 834 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:20,400 We've got to address it. 835 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,400 Low participation. 836 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,920 We discovered that when we did the Dow delegate interviews just this past week. 837 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:31,280 We had one from Korea, one from China, one from Indonesia. 838 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,000 The language barrier is, is a thing. 839 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,920 And Sendo podcast 50 or 47, I think with Erve. 840 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:48,040 They, he has a delegate that wants to focus on bridging the divide between East and West 841 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:53,200 and that language barrier is something that, that Erve talked about quite a bit. 842 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,920 So these are things are being addressed and they're being worked on by the Sanfam community. 843 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,720 And you know, we're, it's one of the reasons why we're, one of the things we're trying 844 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:04,720 to tackle as, as a Sanfam. 845 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,200 So patient rates, you know, not just in the forum, but SIP submissions and what that looks 846 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,200 like. 847 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,440 The idea that everybody just wants money. 848 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,440 We didn't just raise that concern. 849 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:11,440 The community raised that concern. 850 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,840 And that's been a Dow, any Dow you go to, you're probably to hear that. 851 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,320 I've been, I'm part of nine Dows at this point. 852 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,120 I'm active in about four or five of them. 853 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,960 And yeah, that's not just a Sanfam or a sandboxed out thing. 854 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,440 Of themselves, which is a great, you know, self-actualization. 855 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,800 So addressing that head on the ability for an author to revise their SIP and take feedback 856 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,800 into account. 857 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,680 So just what, just the SIP submission process and clarifying that for maximum efficiency 858 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:38,680 with the community. 859 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,000 So these are some of the things that we want to take the time to, to unpack here just in 860 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,200 the next, geez, we're not even going to get to them on this episode. 861 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,080 I want to say that we're going to have to like come back and do something like this 862 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,080 again. 863 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,080 And maybe just. 864 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,080 Good. 865 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,080 Thank you for recognizing that. 866 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,080 And I'm really glad you didn't rush the episode. 867 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,880 Cyril and I record another conversation here sometime in the near future, just talking 868 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,200 about these things so that you guys can hear our thought process, how it, how it's coming 869 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,360 out of our minds on this end. 870 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,560 And then that might be a part of the future steps towards the transparency that people 871 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,280 It absolutely is. 872 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,280 And I'm so willing. 873 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,680 I'm so grateful that y'all are willing to, to take those steps. 874 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,680 You Cyril and the rest of the team want. 875 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:11,680 All right. 876 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,120 So with that in mind, I mean, let's just, you know, give a minute to each of these people 877 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,120 not feeling hurt. 878 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,120 Yeah. 879 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,600 So I guess people not feeling heard. 880 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,040 I think he said the word hurt, but people not feeling heard. 881 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,360 That was the, that was the question and the, the short list that he showed toward the end 882 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,360 of the results. 883 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,680 That's one of the reasons I guess you're joining the team, Bobby. 884 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,680 Yes. 885 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,440 To be that liaison and acknowledge the fact that when we started this whole endeavor, to 886 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,640 be honest, I'm not a professional, you know, community manager. 887 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,600 Also it's kind of cool the way he pronounces liaison. 888 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,360 I think it's a French word to begin with. 889 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:49,320 So to hear a French speaker, which Cyril is a French speaker, to speak the word that, 890 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,440 you know, as an American, I grew up saying liaison and here is liaison. 891 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:55,440 That was cool. 892 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,880 I just, uh, this little stuff like that. 893 00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:58,880 It's cool. 894 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,600 And I, um, I don't necessarily know how to address the community properly or do that 895 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:02,600 kind of thing. 896 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,800 So maybe that's this, where this perception came from in the first place. 897 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,320 Like, like, we don't know how to reach out to you guys. 898 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,440 Cause I've never been like facing a community of the thousands and being able to answer 899 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,440 to everything they say. 900 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:11,800 And I'm like, I'm not a silent builder type, but that's just me. 901 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,160 And I, and I know the rest of the team is probably of the same, um, uh, character. 902 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,600 All right. 903 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:24,000 Here was, if you, if you could judge like the pillars of this episode and what revealed 904 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:30,800 transparency, this is, this is the case in point right here. 905 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,440 I don't want to, I don't want to dismiss or downplay anything he just said that what he 906 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,280 just said, that sentence, I'm going to play it again. 907 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,280 All right. 908 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,560 So I want you to understand just how important it was that he said this. 909 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,560 Yeah. 910 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,840 So I guess that's one of the reasons I guess you're joining the team, Bobby, uh, to be 911 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,200 that liaison and acknowledge the fact that when we started this whole endeavor, to be 912 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,360 honest, I'm not a professional community manager and I, um, I don't necessarily know how to 913 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:56,920 address the community properly or do that kind of thing. 914 00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,680 So maybe that's this, where this perception, um, came from in the first place. 915 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,200 Like, like we don't know how to reach out to you guys. 916 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,360 Cause I've never been like facing a community of the thousands and being able to answer 917 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,360 to everything they say. 918 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,360 I'm more like a silent builder type. 919 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,480 Yeah. 920 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,640 Phil, I wish you had said this at the beginning. 921 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:23,200 If you had said this at the beginning, I would not have been, I would not have been near 922 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,280 as intense and my questions on the forums. 923 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,420 I would not been near as intense. 924 00:50:28,420 --> 00:50:30,860 In some of my podcasts, episodes and my remarks. 925 00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:34,440 Dude, this makes complete sense. 926 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,440 Okay. 927 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,800 I didn't know any of this. 928 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:45,200 None of us knew any of this, that you were the silent builder type, that you didn't know 929 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,840 how to address the community, that you're not a professional community manager so why 930 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,120 would we expect you to be? 931 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:58,280 Like that is the transparency that I'm talking about when I say transparency. 932 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:06,700 The approach, the rationale, the mindset, the mind of our Tao administrator. 933 00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:09,840 This is what turned it around for me. 934 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:16,120 And that if you look at the forums, I make an apology to the Tao admin team. 935 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:23,120 And let's I'm going to find that is I apologize to Tao admin team after watching this episode 936 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,120 in full. 937 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,360 But this was the primary reason why I did it. 938 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,060 This this 20 second repeat that I just did. 939 00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:38,000 And let me find it because it is it is worth showing. 940 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,480 Here it is. 941 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,140 Okay. 942 00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:46,400 So Cyril made his bi weekly post not long ago. 943 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,200 Here it is. 944 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,560 So this post right here. 945 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,520 Five days ago, you know, he talks about how the delegations live talks about the first 946 00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:01,480 podcast is live and been trying to tackle some difficult community questions and lacks 947 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,160 some time to discuss all of them in the end. 948 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,160 That's fine. 949 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,160 That's no problem. 950 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,160 New episode will follow soon. 951 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,320 Awesome. 952 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,040 So I look at that. 953 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:15,600 I watched that episode and then I feel all that's left after watching the end of this 954 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:23,320 episode is is what was left was me wanting to apologize. 955 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,680 And so I did that because I have been intense on the forums. 956 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,560 I asked questions of the wazoo. 957 00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:34,520 I questioned everything because I felt that there was no there was not the answer that 958 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,800 that I felt that a Tao community should know. 959 00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:45,960 And so I start off in my response back to Cyril was nine days left to gather VP before 960 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:51,600 sips resume that that nine days now will happen next Wednesday on the 27th. 961 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,520 So I like, yeah, that's that's awesome. 962 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,360 And then and then Sarah also revealed that only two submissions were received for the 963 00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,280 UTC website request for proposal. 964 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,900 If you think you can build a UTC website, the Tao admin team wants to hear from you. 965 00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:06,920 So please take a look at that. 966 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,480 And that was really valuable knowing that there's two and let me tell you why I'm a 967 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,480 builder. 968 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,360 I'm also a business person. 969 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,560 So I'm not the best at developing a UTC website, but I can hire a team that is I know how to 970 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,960 put together a team and program manage my way through it, but I'm not going to do that 971 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,440 if other people who are better that UTC websites and I am are put their name in the mix. 972 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,320 I'm a program manager, I can I can programize my way through it. 973 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,960 And with a request for proposal, I can build a necessary team, but I'm not going to do 974 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:39,100 that if there are people who are who are good at that already submitting. 975 00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:43,600 So two people is a low number and they want more diversity in submissions. 976 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:48,320 So I've been considering submitting for it. 977 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,780 I just haven't had the time because of all these episodes I did in the past seven days 978 00:53:51,780 --> 00:53:53,560 to interview the delegates. 979 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,360 So I'm the deadline has been extended by a month. 980 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,880 I think that means by the end of this month, because I believe the deadline was at the 981 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,880 beginning of this November. 982 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,500 All right. 983 00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:12,500 So anyways, zero asked in his episode, tell me how the episode went, because it's impossible 984 00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:13,720 for me to watch myself. 985 00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:15,040 This is Sarah's words. 986 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:21,960 I'm just quoting it and I this is where I went into it worked out and as me talk, quoting 987 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,080 myself here, my response to him was it worked out really well. 988 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,360 This episode shared a lot of great things that helped me understand where your thoughts 989 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,360 were. 990 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,280 It was really good to hear your background at length and see those raw results from the 991 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:35,280 survey. 992 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:41,000 And at 3553 timestamp, when you talked about being the silent builder type, and you talked 993 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,260 about how you aren't a professional community manager, and you don't know how to address 994 00:54:44,260 --> 00:54:48,840 community properly, and how you wanted to launch the Dow in an awesome way at NSC Lisbon 995 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,840 after eight months of thoughtful planning. 996 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:57,280 My friend, that's the kind of thing I wanted to hear and understand from the beginning. 997 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,780 What you said makes complete sense. 998 00:54:59,780 --> 00:55:04,260 And when I heard you say it, I felt my anger, mistrust and resentment start to fade away. 999 00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:09,280 And what I was left with was wanting to apologize to you for how intense I've been towards you 1000 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,520 and the Dow admin team. 1001 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,520 So I'm apologizing now. 1002 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,520 Dear Cyril and the admin team, 1003 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,720 Je suis désolé. 1004 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:21,440 I am so sorry I did not give you more trust and the benefit of the Dow. 1005 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,880 I'm sorry I rushed to conclusions about your motives. 1006 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,320 And I'm sorry I didn't try harder to understand your point of view. 1007 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,320 Si t'es pas libre, pardonnez-moi. 1008 00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:38,760 I'm so sorry I budgeted that French. 1009 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,440 I hope you can forgive me. 1010 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,120 I want to repair what can be repaired, build with you, and work toward a positive future. 1011 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:51,960 So that was my apology post back to Cyril after he asked to tell me how it is. 1012 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,720 It's impossible for me to watch myself. 1013 00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:55,240 I completely understand that, by the way. 1014 00:55:55,240 --> 00:56:00,520 I really dislike hearing myself. 1015 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,520 But it... 1016 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,600 Yeah. 1017 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:12,880 I came away from this feeling like I needed to apologize because I heard the transparency 1018 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:19,840 I was looking for when Cyril talked about how he wasn't a professional at community 1019 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,280 management. 1020 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,480 That's real. 1021 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,680 That's a real... 1022 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:31,160 That's being my Dow admin manager in the sandbox Dow. 1023 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,080 I can live with that. 1024 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,080 That makes sense. 1025 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,840 Not everyone can be everything. 1026 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,800 And so Cyril responded, don't worry about it, it's okay. 1027 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,840 I know you want what's best for the Dow and you don't trust easy. 1028 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:43,840 I understand. 1029 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:44,840 I'm the same. 1030 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,280 And kudos on the effort with the French. 1031 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:48,840 I'm sorry I butchered it. 1032 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,720 Now let's build some cool stuff together. 1033 00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:52,720 Boom. 1034 00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:53,720 Boom. 1035 00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:58,660 So I felt like that flipped the switch in me. 1036 00:56:58,660 --> 00:57:03,280 Hearing him expand upon how he's a silent builder type. 1037 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,240 He didn't know how to do this job. 1038 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:10,200 And that's why Bobby came on and Bobby is crushing it. 1039 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,200 And so where Bobby talked about they each have their specialization. 1040 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,280 Cyril's been thoughtfully planning the Dow and we're about to get into his thoughts on 1041 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,280 that. 1042 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:23,000 And that was the second pillar of this episode that really addressed the transparency gap 1043 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,720 that I've been searching for this whole time. 1044 00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,360 And how intense my questions have been because I didn't have that sort of stuff. 1045 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:30,680 I didn't know where they're coming from. 1046 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,460 I didn't trust his motives. 1047 00:57:32,460 --> 00:57:34,520 Why was he here? 1048 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:39,060 How was it that he's been working on it all this time and we did not know. 1049 00:57:39,060 --> 00:57:41,080 So he addresses that head on. 1050 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,440 So let's continue. 1051 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,200 Thank you Cyril. 1052 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,240 Thank you for being real and vulnerable about that. 1053 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,920 That was that went a long way with me. 1054 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,920 And I feel it will with the rest of the community. 1055 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,400 But that's just me and I know the rest of the team is probably of the same character. 1056 00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,960 So yeah, one of the one of the things we did is brought a talented person like yourself 1057 00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:01,640 Bobby to try to be that he is all in somebody that 1058 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:02,640 is all 1059 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,760 is, you know, used to addressing community that knows how to conduct themselves in a 1060 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,080 community scape landscape. 1061 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:09,080 So that's what we did. 1062 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,080 And we're hoping with this podcast with the forum to be more and more accessible to the 1063 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,400 community while still trying to do our job in the you know, in the background because 1064 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,720 and I can tell you that as I see this more transparency, I'm going to back off a lot 1065 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,280 more on being so intense, because I'm going to feel the trust I'm going to I know, I have 1066 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,640 faith that the Dow admin team is working toward that end goal, that same end goal that I'm 1067 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,640 trying to work toward, and that nothing else squirrely is going on. 1068 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,160 And now we have a communications manager who's able to bridge that gap and help provide that 1069 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,860 rationale. 1070 00:58:41,860 --> 00:58:44,720 Now we're cooking with fire, for fire and all cylinders. 1071 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,120 There's a lot to be done in the background. 1072 00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,800 So we can't spend all day on the Twitter on the forum on whatever doing those things, 1073 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:51,800 right? 1074 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:52,800 So that's our and I understand that. 1075 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:53,800 I get it. 1076 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,640 They can't spend all day answering all my questions. 1077 00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,560 They can't spend all day on Twitter. 1078 00:58:58,560 --> 00:58:59,840 They have a job to do. 1079 00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,560 They're trying to figure out how to run a Dow and plan for the progressive decentralization 1080 00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:05,560 over the next five years. 1081 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,560 10th on bridging those gaps. 1082 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,560 Yeah, excellent. 1083 00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:09,560 Thank you. 1084 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,560 Well, I'm excited to be here. 1085 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,200 And that was one of the first things I recognized as well. 1086 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,520 So you know, continuing that spirit of transparency with everybody who's still listening like 1087 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,100 a half hour into this podcast. 1088 00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:18,100 And we are. 1089 00:59:18,100 --> 00:59:21,280 I'm still listening. 1090 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:22,560 I like this long form stuff. 1091 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:23,680 I know not everyone does. 1092 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:29,080 But this is this is what matters when it comes to running the Dow, its relationship, its 1093 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:37,440 trust, its its faith and and action and delivering on product. 1094 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:44,800 And in order for this ecosystem to be vibrant with business people, with gamers, with designers, 1095 00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:52,040 with speculators, with traders, brokers, you need to know who you're doing business with. 1096 00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:56,860 I need to know who this Dow admin team is so that I myself, because I have more than 1097 00:59:56,860 --> 01:00:03,160 just a podcast, I've got a life, I've got other interests, business interests, I have 1098 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,580 a full time job. 1099 01:00:04,580 --> 01:00:09,280 And there are certain rules and expectations that are that I have to abide by. 1100 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:13,920 And part of it is knowing who I do business with outside of my job. 1101 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,560 I have full time job. 1102 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,060 So these things matter. 1103 01:00:18,060 --> 01:00:20,640 And it's unlocking my potential. 1104 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:28,660 I feel like this episode is unlocking my potential to be more than just suspicious, confused. 1105 01:00:28,660 --> 01:00:32,600 And all these things being barriers to what I want to do, which is build. 1106 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,520 I want to build organizations and structures and make it easier for San Fam and SIP authors 1107 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,000 to do what they do best. 1108 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,240 And some of my steps reflect that I want to be spending my time on the steps. 1109 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:51,080 I want to be spending my time educating on transparency and showing and making it easier 1110 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:52,880 for people to interact. 1111 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,240 Not like an internal thing where Serial Seam is doing, but make it to where kind of what 1112 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,800 CoonT is doing, but on the other side, on the community side, bridging the gap between 1113 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:06,280 communities, bridging the gap between voters. 1114 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:11,260 That interdelegate panel that now we're probably going to do with the delegates that we figured 1115 01:01:11,260 --> 01:01:14,080 out that they want to do too. 1116 01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,480 That's the sort of stuff I want to do. 1117 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,920 I want to build relationships between the community. 1118 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:26,480 Whereas CoonT's main job is to build relationships between the Dow admin team, the sandbox, and 1119 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:27,640 the community. 1120 01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,760 I want to be building relationships within the community. 1121 01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,120 Making that fire in all cylinders, making that efficient and effective where we have 1122 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,200 things where we can communicate between ourselves so that when we do interact, we know what 1123 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,160 we're doing. 1124 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:48,520 Because we have a responsibility as well to ensure that we are good community members. 1125 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,960 And I want to contribute to that mission. 1126 01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,000 Serial is contributing to the mission of making sure that Dow is run well and the tech stack 1127 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,000 is functioning. 1128 01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,280 CoonT is contributing to the mission of ensuring that the transparency, that the Dow is being 1129 01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:07,040 messaged properly, and that they're fulfilling their obligations for communication to the 1130 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:08,040 community. 1131 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,520 I want to be in the community. 1132 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:15,560 Because my last number of podcast episodes before I interviewed the Dow delegates, I 1133 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:21,880 had to focus my attention on the Dow because there was so little that was known about it. 1134 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,600 So I had got to the point where I had to do episode 31 because I couldn't wait any longer 1135 01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:33,580 for the Dow admin team to tell me how it was being run. 1136 01:02:33,580 --> 01:02:35,080 It is what it is. 1137 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:40,080 And I did that episode, the frustration shown through there, and the anger and the resentment 1138 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:41,080 and the mistrust. 1139 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,080 And this episode turned that around. 1140 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,360 This episode that we're watching right now with the digging in the sand. 1141 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:47,360 Yes. 1142 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,200 You know, when I first joined the team, I said, here's the first, at least three months 1143 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,960 of my mission is going to just be repairing relationships and opening communication channels, 1144 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:55,960 making sure that we're 1145 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,120 And you, Aboon, doing great. 1146 01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,120 CoonT, please keep going. 1147 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:01,120 Please. 1148 01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,700 They're on the same page with the community that we're working for, working with. 1149 01:03:04,700 --> 01:03:05,700 And so 1150 01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:06,700 Exactly. 1151 01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:09,680 Working for and working with. 1152 01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,560 I think that's the right mindset. 1153 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:12,560 It's both. 1154 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:13,800 That's it. 1155 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,360 I mean, not just one or the other. 1156 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,520 It's not it's not you're working for the community. 1157 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,400 You're working with it and we're working with you. 1158 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,320 We've been trying to grow the Dow. 1159 01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,080 We need to have this solid foundation where we're on the same page with everybody out there. 1160 01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,200 That's mainly why this podcast came to be. 1161 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:34,280 If you go back to episode one, why I started it two or three weeks after, it's because 1162 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,240 there were so few answers I had. 1163 01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:37,680 I had to try. 1164 01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,160 I had to figure it out with the community. 1165 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,280 We didn't even know what a Dow was, most of us. 1166 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:48,400 And when you watch the first two episodes, you're just going to see that mass confusion. 1167 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,440 What is this thing? 1168 01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:56,120 I'm Google searching the Dow as I'm doing podcast episodes to try and figure it out. 1169 01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:01,560 And this podcast has largely happened because of that confusion and that that lack of transparency 1170 01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:05,240 that we thought at the time. 1171 01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:12,120 So if Bobby had been here from the start, I don't think Sandow podcast would be what 1172 01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:13,120 it is. 1173 01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,320 I don't think it would have started the same way. 1174 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,560 I don't think it would have had the same episodes. 1175 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,840 I think it would have been a lot different. 1176 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:21,080 And that's not a dig. 1177 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,360 It's not that's not anything bad against the Dow admin team. 1178 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:28,800 Like Sarah said, he did what he did in order to get the biggest impacts first, the things 1179 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,920 that were most important to the Dallas survival. 1180 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,520 And unfortunately, communicating with the individual members wasn't as high on the list 1181 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,440 as making sure the tech stack function is making sure delegations were unleashed as 1182 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,300 making sure that the process was being iterated on. 1183 01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:45,300 And I get it. 1184 01:04:45,300 --> 01:04:46,300 I get it. 1185 01:04:46,300 --> 01:04:47,300 When he explains it, I get it. 1186 01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:51,920 I just wish you would explained it earlier, just earlier. 1187 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:52,920 That's all. 1188 01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:58,760 That's the only the only criticism I have of this podcast episode is if it's been done 1189 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:08,200 on May 29, instead of instead of five days ago, November 17. 1190 01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,040 I don't think there would be near the backlash. 1191 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:12,840 And Sarah's about to get into that. 1192 01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,000 And everybody across the globe, no matter what language they're speaking, whether they're 1193 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,200 for or against any particular sip or whatever. 1194 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:18,640 So that's what we're working on right now. 1195 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:19,640 Everybody is listening to this. 1196 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:20,640 I invite you to be a part of it. 1197 01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,620 You know, like, well, let's work to construct to build, let's work positively towards building 1198 01:05:24,620 --> 01:05:25,620 something awesome. 1199 01:05:25,620 --> 01:05:28,520 So the perceived lack of transparency that that feeling rushed, it's related to people 1200 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:29,520 not feeling heard. 1201 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,320 You know, it's that same that same element, but the rushed first few sips. 1202 01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:33,320 Can you remark on that? 1203 01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:34,320 Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. 1204 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,760 And I've heard it's heard this quite a few times, to be honest. 1205 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:42,100 So it's painful to me when I hear this, because I've been working for like many, many months, 1206 01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:44,240 you know, to before the doubt can be released. 1207 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,920 So saying that I've rushed it, we rushed it. 1208 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:46,920 It's a bit harsh. 1209 01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:47,920 But I but I get it. 1210 01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:49,200 I get where this is coming from. 1211 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,600 And I'm appreciative that you acknowledge that that you get where we're coming from. 1212 01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,520 And, and now it's time for me to eat some humble pie as I listen to Cyril talk about 1213 01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:04,280 the thought that went into this many months ahead of time, and how it wasn't just a secret 1214 01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:09,200 cabal of people pulling the strings behind the scenes. 1215 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:10,200 I don't think so. 1216 01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,200 I don't think that's what's happening. 1217 01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:17,360 And I think Cyril really reassures and explains the path to how we got to here. 1218 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:18,360 And it makes sense. 1219 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:19,360 It's very reasonable. 1220 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,080 From it is on the first few sips and the way that they were pushed very quickly, which 1221 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,120 frankly, what has been the poor communication. 1222 01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,620 So thank you for acknowledging that. 1223 01:06:27,620 --> 01:06:35,580 It leaves me room to where all I need have to do left is apologize, because I was intense. 1224 01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:38,680 I was intense about that perceived lack of communication. 1225 01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,680 And the rush tips, just like the rest of the community was. 1226 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,840 And some of those community members were much harsher than I was, like, just in straight 1227 01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,280 up insulting. 1228 01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,660 And I didn't want to devolve into that I wanted to keep pushing forward. 1229 01:06:52,660 --> 01:06:56,400 And I'm glad that Cyril and Kunta, they're meeting us. 1230 01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,520 They're meeting us where we are. 1231 01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:02,760 And we can repair, rebuild, and then just keep building. 1232 01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,760 I mean, designing this whole foundation, the rules for voting, the rules for proposing 1233 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,760 a sip, what's the website to support all of that, that took time. 1234 01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:10,760 And I don't believe that was rush. 1235 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:15,640 That was the fruit of many, many weeks and months of looking at other DAOs and how we 1236 01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,360 can make the best one possible based on what the others have been doing and what's our 1237 01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,000 vision for this one. 1238 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,040 And I appreciate that he said that. 1239 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,360 I think that was good to hear. 1240 01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,960 I needed to hear that, that he didn't believe it was rushed and that he put a lot of thought 1241 01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:31,520 and time into it. 1242 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:38,480 And as we actually learned with just podcast 48, I believe, with Hervé, he also played 1243 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,440 a part in the formation of the DAO. 1244 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:46,040 He said that he helped write one of the first drafts of the Sandbox DAO when he was brought 1245 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,620 on to help consult a little bit with his company. 1246 01:07:49,620 --> 01:07:51,600 This was, I think, before even Cyril got involved. 1247 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:56,880 So I didn't even know that Hervé and his company was involved before Cyril was. 1248 01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,720 And so that was fascinating. 1249 01:07:58,720 --> 01:07:59,720 That was fascinating. 1250 01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,840 So it makes sense that when it was mentioned in the white paper in 2020, that it wasn't 1251 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:04,840 just a mention. 1252 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:10,480 There was considerable thought put into figuring out how are we going to roll this DAO out 1253 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,000 that we put in the white paper. 1254 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:18,920 So to hear Cyril say that it hurt, that it hurt to hear us call his work rushed and 1255 01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:24,480 corrupt, and all these different words that were used by different community members. 1256 01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:25,480 I understand. 1257 01:08:25,480 --> 01:08:29,600 I can understand why he would feel hurt by that. 1258 01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:35,280 And like I said, man, I'm sorry that I was so intense about that. 1259 01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,840 I'm sorry. 1260 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,560 But what was rushed is probably the way we've announced it. 1261 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,560 Yep. 1262 01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,040 And in episode 31, I cover that. 1263 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:51,200 If you look earlier in this episode, Sandel's Podcast 50, where I went into episode 31 with 1264 01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,880 the balance of the cabal and all that sort of thing, you go back to there, I talk about 1265 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,800 the timeline that felt so rushed. 1266 01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:02,800 I go through the timeline of it was announced on May 28th. 1267 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:07,720 Three sips were immediately thrust on us. 1268 01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:09,400 Two more sips like a week later. 1269 01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:14,560 So five sips within a month we had to vote on and we didn't even know what a DAO was. 1270 01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:19,840 So that kind of rushing of the announcement and the, all right, here's a sip, now go vote, 1271 01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:23,920 even though we don't know what a sip is and we don't know what a DAO is. 1272 01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,920 And so that's the rushing of the announcement that he's talking about. 1273 01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:34,680 But that second pillar is about to come into play of how and why they went about it that 1274 01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:35,680 way. 1275 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:36,680 And I get it. 1276 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:37,680 I get it. 1277 01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,280 And the way the first few sips got brought to people's attention because we wanted to 1278 01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:41,360 start somewhere. 1279 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,480 And I don't feel we could have designed. 1280 01:09:43,480 --> 01:09:44,840 I mean, I've been working on many, many projects. 1281 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,400 Like as soon as you get more than five people in the room, it becomes impossible to get 1282 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,160 an agreement on anything when you design a product, right? 1283 01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:50,560 Whether it's a website or an app or anything, right? 1284 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,680 So it's easier to go fast when you're a small team. 1285 01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,840 So can you imagine designing a project with a thousand members? 1286 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,360 That's not possible, right? 1287 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:04,200 I disagree just a little bit, but I don't discount what he's saying. 1288 01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,720 It is harder to get to a consensus or an agreement with thousands of people. 1289 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:17,000 I run a couple product teams of about 15 to 20 people each as a program manager. 1290 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:21,940 And I have an extended team of about 25 more. 1291 01:10:21,940 --> 01:10:29,200 So anywhere from 35 to 50 extended team members, so functionals, advisors. 1292 01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:34,920 And it's hard to when I bring them in, regardless, and I make my meetings open to them and so 1293 01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:39,380 that they can come in, it's like a revolving door and it makes it harder, it makes it tougher. 1294 01:10:39,380 --> 01:10:43,280 But in the end, it makes it more complete. 1295 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,080 And we aren't surprised very often. 1296 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,640 And we get consensus pretty easy nowadays. 1297 01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:54,860 So I only disagree in the sense that I see what he's saying. 1298 01:10:54,860 --> 01:10:57,080 I don't discount what he's saying. 1299 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:58,800 I think it's true. 1300 01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,080 It doesn't have to be done that way. 1301 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:06,760 And for what it's worth, he chose that way because that's what he felt that he wanted 1302 01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:07,760 to do. 1303 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,400 He was given the authority to be the DAO administrator, not me, not Lancer. 1304 01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,440 Lancer is a community member. 1305 01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:16,680 This is the DAO administrator who is doing this whole time. 1306 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,320 So I can appreciate that that's the decision he came to. 1307 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:20,320 Right. 1308 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,160 So there's an idea that was that we need a small team to put down the foundation, no 1309 01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:30,080 pun intended, of all of this principle and then propose them to the broad community. 1310 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,760 But still, the way that we've announced it, we were in Lisbon, we say it was a whole coordinated 1311 01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:34,760 event in our mind. 1312 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,200 It was like, oh, we're going to announce it on stage, Seb is going to go on stage. 1313 01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,360 At the same time, he goes on stage. 1314 01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,920 The website, it goes live on production. 1315 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:41,440 The three steps are pushed on snapshots. 1316 01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:44,920 And there's like a tweet or two mentioning this and an article, I think, on Medium. 1317 01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,620 In our mind, that was like also marketing, you know, rollout plan. 1318 01:11:47,620 --> 01:11:51,580 But then we quickly realized that it didn't give the community enough time to reflect 1319 01:11:51,580 --> 01:11:54,960 on this DAO and learn what it is, why it exists, what is objective. 1320 01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:59,280 And they were already being asked to vote on stuff, select a council, approve the constitution, 1321 01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,280 do all kinds of stuff. 1322 01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:01,280 And I felt like they should have got... 1323 01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,840 There it is. 1324 01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:04,840 Summarized right there. 1325 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:10,320 Episode 31, summarized right there. 1326 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:17,240 I completely agree and support that interpretation, Cyril. 1327 01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:24,840 So let's hear that one more time because that to me is the second major pillar in this video. 1328 01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:25,840 So the first was... 1329 01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:29,720 Look at the note, right? 1330 01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:38,280 So the first was, I'm not a professional community manager. 1331 01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:46,080 And the second was... 1332 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,640 And then that's why Bobby was hired. 1333 01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,400 Oh, it was... 1334 01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,440 We didn't know how to address the community. 1335 01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:57,440 Right? 1336 01:12:57,440 --> 01:12:59,800 But that's real. 1337 01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:00,800 Okay. 1338 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:06,000 So learning Cyril's road to the DAO. 1339 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:07,000 Right? 1340 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,160 So we learned about Cyril and his road to the DAO in the beginning. 1341 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:18,200 And then we heard Cyril admit and be vulnerable that he's not a professional community manager 1342 01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:21,880 and he didn't know how to address the community properly. 1343 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,560 Okay? 1344 01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,440 Makes sense. 1345 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:28,040 I can't do everything either. 1346 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,160 And I mess up all the time. 1347 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:34,440 You know, I'm a silent builder type. 1348 01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:36,680 And we heard him say he's an engineer background too. 1349 01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,600 So all right. 1350 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:45,840 And then later on he says, let's go through what he says again. 1351 01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:50,240 You know, looking at foundation, there's rush. 1352 01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:53,880 We can make the best one possible based on what the others have been doing and what's 1353 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,180 our vision for this one. 1354 01:13:55,180 --> 01:13:59,840 But what was rushed is probably the way we've announced it and the way the first few CIFS 1355 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,480 got brought to people's attention because we wanted to start somewhere. 1356 01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:04,040 And I don't feel we could have designed... 1357 01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,000 I mean, I've been working on many, many projects. 1358 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,520 Like as soon as you get more than five people in the room, it becomes impossible to get 1359 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,280 an agreement on anything when you design a product, right? 1360 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:11,600 Whether it's a website or an app or anything. 1361 01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:12,600 Right? 1362 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:13,800 So it's easier to go fast when you're a small team. 1363 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,800 So can you imagine designing a project with a thousand members? 1364 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:16,800 That's not possible. 1365 01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:17,800 Right? 1366 01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:21,560 So there's an idea that was that we need a small team to put down the foundation, no 1367 01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:26,480 pun intended, of all of this principle and then propose them to the broad community. 1368 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:30,160 But still, the way that we've announced it, we were in Lisbon, we say it was a whole coordinated 1369 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:31,160 event in our mind. 1370 01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,160 Right? 1371 01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:33,600 It was like, oh, we're going to announce it on stage, Seb is going to go on stage. 1372 01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:34,800 At the same time, he goes on stage. 1373 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,320 The website, it goes live on production. 1374 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:37,320 The three CIFS are pushed on snapshots. 1375 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:41,320 And there's like a tweet or two mentioning this and an article, I think, on Medium. 1376 01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,020 In our mind, that was like awesome marketing, you know, rollout plan. 1377 01:14:44,020 --> 01:14:47,960 But then we quickly realized that it didn't give the community enough time to reflect 1378 01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,360 on this DAO and learn what it is, why it exists, what is objective. 1379 01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:55,000 And they were already being asked to vote on stuff, select the council. 1380 01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,000 Yep. 1381 01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,000 Approve the constitution and do what? 1382 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,520 All this thing happened at once, May 28. 1383 01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:07,160 And all this stuff we were requested to do and fulfill as a responsibility of being a 1384 01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:08,480 SanFam voter in the DAO. 1385 01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:10,760 And we didn't know the heck that was, man. 1386 01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:14,140 Didn't even know what it was. 1387 01:15:14,140 --> 01:15:16,980 You just articulated, Cyril, the frustration. 1388 01:15:16,980 --> 01:15:20,860 And I get why you did it the other way. 1389 01:15:20,860 --> 01:15:22,600 The big grand opening. 1390 01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:24,760 It makes total sense, man. 1391 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,920 If I was in your shoes, I might have even done the same thing. 1392 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,120 Yeah, that makes total sense. 1393 01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:36,600 The grand opening, the big, the big ribbon cutting ceremony to where you have the press 1394 01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:41,440 and then with the press comes the attention and then new DAO members and new SanFam members 1395 01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:48,600 and new gamers in the SanFam ecosystem and just blowing it up because yet again, SanFam, 1396 01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:52,480 sandbox is making the news and we're doing big things and people want to be a part of 1397 01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:53,480 those big things. 1398 01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:54,480 I get it. 1399 01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:55,800 I totally get it. 1400 01:15:55,800 --> 01:16:01,000 Whereas had he not done that, had he, you know, piece it meal along the way when that 1401 01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:07,040 final ribbon cutting ceremony might have happened at NSC Lisbon, then it might've just been 1402 01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,040 just a little pop. 1403 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:12,680 A little pop where people say, oh yeah, yeah, we knew about that a long time ago. 1404 01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,800 And so it wasn't, it wouldn't be as big a deal. 1405 01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:17,880 Well, I get it. 1406 01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:19,980 I get why he decided to do it that way. 1407 01:16:19,980 --> 01:16:22,440 And thank you for explaining this. 1408 01:16:22,440 --> 01:16:26,000 This is what I wanted to hear from the beginning. 1409 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,360 But I get also why he didn't do that in the beginning and why he didn't explain it because 1410 01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,520 he's not a professional community manager and he didn't know how to address the community 1411 01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:38,880 and it took them some time to realize that this is how we were reacting and not like 1412 01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:43,000 it comes out in the open and we're like, oh yay, Grant, thank you so much for this. 1413 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,440 This is awesome. 1414 01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:48,680 And that's not how the community responded in SanFam at all. 1415 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:57,080 So him acknowledging this second pillar and knocking away any mistrust and resentment 1416 01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:00,680 that I had, it just eaten it up so that it doesn't exist anymore. 1417 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:01,680 All kinds of stuff, right? 1418 01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,680 And I felt like they should have got better, should have been involved earlier. 1419 01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:06,080 But like I said, we have to start somewhere. 1420 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,320 So there was this, this real balance of, you know, efficiency, we need to start somewhere, 1421 01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:10,320 how to involve the community. 1422 01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,880 But now in retrospect, I definitely feel like we could have done a better job at communicating 1423 01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,560 this, explaining this, teasing this maybe in advance before announcing everything at 1424 01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:18,560 the same time. 1425 01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:19,560 That's for sure. 1426 01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:20,560 Cool. 1427 01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:25,640 And to me, I believe that's where the rush sentiment comes from. 1428 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,520 That is exactly where the rush sentiment comes from, Cyril. 1429 01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:31,320 It is exactly where you put your finger on it. 1430 01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:36,120 And to me, after you've acknowledged it this way, after you've talked about your rationale 1431 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:41,320 for why you went the opposite direction, the big grand event approach and everything all 1432 01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:42,320 at once. 1433 01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:47,080 After you've acknowledged it, you've acknowledged why you didn't communicate up until this point 1434 01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:48,400 in the way that you have. 1435 01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:53,360 And that the AMA felt like a press tour and because they were and the NFC Lisbon was a 1436 01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:58,720 press tour because it was by design to make that big bang, that big splash in the Dow 1437 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,000 ecosystem. 1438 01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:05,200 Now that you've said all these things, I consider the matter closed. 1439 01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:06,200 I may not agree. 1440 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,880 I don't have to because you're the Dow administrator. 1441 01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,680 You have the authority to do this. 1442 01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:15,080 I consider the matter closed on my end. 1443 01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:17,780 I can't guarantee I won't bring it up again in the future. 1444 01:18:17,780 --> 01:18:22,960 But what I can guarantee is that I don't look at it with mistrust and anger and frustration 1445 01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:26,120 anymore. 1446 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:27,120 Let's build together. 1447 01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:28,120 I understand. 1448 01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:34,520 So it's time to start looking forward and not looking backward. 1449 01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,520 We're not going that way anymore. 1450 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,640 Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 1451 01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:42,240 I mean, I even felt like the votes on the first few sips they took place before I even 1452 01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,240 really had a chance to wrap my head around what was going on. 1453 01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,240 I think that's also just a product of our all being in Web3. 1454 01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,600 I mean, like how many discords want us to stay active every day? 1455 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:49,600 Oh, man. 1456 01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,120 It's like there's just so many communities and places to pop into and stay hip to like 1457 01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:53,120 what is my other token doing? 1458 01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:54,120 Do I got to restake this? 1459 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:55,120 Do I got to? 1460 01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:56,120 I mean, there's a lot to stay. 1461 01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:58,780 I mean, I've got calendar items reminding me of the craziest things. 1462 01:18:58,780 --> 01:19:01,080 So I couldn't agree more, Kunta. 1463 01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:02,240 I couldn't agree more. 1464 01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:03,240 Even on top of that. 1465 01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:09,760 What far is it really to further for the community to expect of itself, you know, that so many 1466 01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,760 different things are going on in Web3. 1467 01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:13,760 And I get it. 1468 01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:18,880 Even if we had known like what what was the expectation there really? 1469 01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:20,000 I completely agree. 1470 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,640 I mean, I didn't even get to vote, you know, I didn't know what they were. 1471 01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,840 Another remark I wanted to make on that is, you know, I've been having one to one conversations. 1472 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,720 I invite the community, you know, reach out to me and the DMs on one of them was with 1473 01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:31,680 me on the sandbox, down socials or personally, if you know me, somebody you do, you know, 1474 01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:32,680 talking about this stuff. 1475 01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:33,680 And he asked me like, why? 1476 01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,880 Why didn't the Dow just start with the community writing the Constitution? 1477 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,800 I will self ID and say I was one of those people saying that together. 1478 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,480 And on a second, like that is one, you know, that's a possible way to roll out a doubt 1479 01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:45,920 would be really hard to do, though, because like every line would have to be debated. 1480 01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:47,880 And so that's fair. 1481 01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:54,440 And we're in you hear that episode 48 47, the Dow lessons with bankless Dow, how difficult 1482 01:19:54,440 --> 01:20:02,240 it was and how challenging it is for a transition team to restructure a Dow to rebrand to decide 1483 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:08,200 what the Dow wants to be now that it has divested itself from bankless Dow to now black flag 1484 01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:11,120 Dow and it's trying to reimagine itself. 1485 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:17,640 And the Transition Council had to had to be elected in order to be more efficient with 1486 01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:22,720 the path forward from everyone wanting to input on everything now to a smaller team, 1487 01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,360 given the authority to decide and figure it out. 1488 01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,440 And having been elected, there we go. 1489 01:20:27,440 --> 01:20:32,960 The only difference between them and us in this regard is that we didn't elect the Dow 1490 01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:33,960 admin team. 1491 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,880 We didn't elect the Transition Council. 1492 01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:43,480 The Dow admin team was appointed and the special council members were nominated. 1493 01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:45,700 We couldn't nominate them ourselves. 1494 01:20:45,700 --> 01:20:46,700 They weren't from the community. 1495 01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:50,000 Well, that's not not the right thing to say that they weren't as involved in the community 1496 01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:53,560 as other community members who want to nominate themselves like me. 1497 01:20:53,560 --> 01:21:00,920 I want to be on the special council and and that or the advisory board, but mainly I'm 1498 01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,000 going to be going for the special council. 1499 01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:07,680 So yeah, that frustration. 1500 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,120 But I agree, it would have been really, really hard to do, Kunta. 1501 01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:12,120 I completely agree. 1502 01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,960 And at some point you would have to have a decision maker to say, all right, we've taken 1503 01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,880 in the input, here's what the output and that's the way we're moving. 1504 01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:23,680 We will iterate on that success, which is basically what they're describing in this 1505 01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:24,680 podcast episode. 1506 01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,920 You know, there's no right or wrong way to do this. 1507 01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:27,920 This is the way it was done. 1508 01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:29,760 We have to acknowledge some of the mistakes learned from them, grow from them. 1509 01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,200 If you don't know the word Kaizen, go look it up. 1510 01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:33,640 It's a spirit that I know Cyril maintains from product development. 1511 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:37,640 Kaizen is just iterative, continuous improvement. 1512 01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,960 Carry over as well as constant little bit of improvement every day, always thinking about 1513 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:41,960 how to make it better. 1514 01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:42,960 And that's what we're doing. 1515 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:43,960 That's what we need the community for as well. 1516 01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,000 So and that feedback loop, right? 1517 01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:49,220 Is equally important, like the small iteration and start small, then build upon it, but also 1518 01:21:49,220 --> 01:21:52,760 integrate that feedback loop is, I believe, important and constant, you know, improvement 1519 01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,480 integrating with your own ideas and feedback from your customer. 1520 01:21:55,480 --> 01:21:58,520 You know, we don't have customer, but like people that use your product really. 1521 01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:01,760 That's ultimately what it is, right? 1522 01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:03,240 We're creating a product of sort. 1523 01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,480 So I mean, these are the kinds of analogies that were and that's, that's why I put it 1524 01:22:07,480 --> 01:22:09,880 in the product section of the ecosystem. 1525 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:14,480 Right, right here under products. 1526 01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:23,800 The DAO because it is a technical solution to the need, the dilemma of community. 1527 01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,240 How does the community resolve its differences? 1528 01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:29,040 How does the community act on its vision? 1529 01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,200 How does it implement its goals? 1530 01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:38,180 You use the tech stack of the DAO, the discourse to communicate the snapshot to vote the wallets 1531 01:22:38,180 --> 01:22:43,840 to spend the elections to a point. 1532 01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:46,720 It's a product. 1533 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,400 We're drawing on our, on our side, hopefully through future podcasts like this, you know, 1534 01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,960 people who are interested in the DAO can understand our lines of reasoning, the way that we're 1535 01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,440 thinking over time, your thoughts, your suggestion. 1536 01:22:55,440 --> 01:23:01,640 You have no idea how hugely helpful it was to hear the lines of reasoning. 1537 01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:08,200 I get why some people may believe that it wasn't important to, to understand the reasoning, 1538 01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:16,520 but it solved the pro dilemma for me on multiple fronts, not just as a, as a San Fam gamer, 1539 01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:22,000 but also a business person running a business and, and trying to align business interests 1540 01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:28,080 within my own team and my own partnerships to try and bring those partnerships into the 1541 01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,480 sandbox. 1542 01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:33,760 The sandbox is, the sandbox is gaming, right? 1543 01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:35,440 It's got different products. 1544 01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:41,800 The sandbox DAO is where gaming, community, business, and leadership all intersect. 1545 01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:46,560 And I'll be covering this in the, the ecosystem in the DAO podcast episode that I'm so looking 1546 01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:48,840 forward to doing in the future. 1547 01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,400 But that is the intersection of those things, which is why I'm so invested in this, which 1548 01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:59,240 is why I love being here in the DAO because I love every single one of those things. 1549 01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:05,160 I just, I was just got off a podcast a couple of days ago, NFT Now. 1550 01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:13,360 They just interviewed me for an article and, and yeah, I talked about, and I also did a 1551 01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:19,380 podcast on Forbes Web 3, I also did a podcast on Tech Talk and, and I've sounded like a 1552 01:24:19,380 --> 01:24:22,280 walking advertisement for sandbox sometimes. 1553 01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:25,040 And I have to kind of check myself to be like, all right, I need to make my disclosures. 1554 01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:31,080 I need to do, I need to make sure that I comment on not the bad, but the improvements so I 1555 01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:37,080 don't sound like I'm just an untrustworthy billboard of getting undisclosed payments, 1556 01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:41,320 which I'm not, by the way, I'm not getting paid for this at all to do any of this. 1557 01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:50,000 And, and, and yeah, yeah, I sound like a walking advertisement for sandbox sometimes. 1558 01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:55,800 And it's, it's important to know that my reputation is on the line, just like other people's are 1559 01:24:55,800 --> 01:25:01,720 when it comes to convincing business partners, some of which are some of the top consulting 1560 01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:08,680 firms in the world that I've met and networked with over the years. 1561 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:15,320 And this, these, some of these sips requires me to be successful with them. 1562 01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:22,120 And I cannot hope to bring them into this if I have confusion or, or uncertainty about 1563 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,520 the business environment that I'm asking them to partner with. 1564 01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:30,960 I've got to know, they've got to know there, there's too many, too much brand reputation 1565 01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,360 at stake to not know. 1566 01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,640 And so this is helping with that. 1567 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:40,440 Your feedback, your comments are all integrated, assimilated into the way that we're thinking 1568 01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:43,560 we're taking these feedbacks from polls like this one that we did future polls. 1569 01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:44,560 And we're doing this together. 1570 01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:45,560 We're all on the same team here. 1571 01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:46,960 I think that's the real spirit to be taken out of this. 1572 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,640 Even if some of us get rushed through a certain point, it's like taking a big hike together. 1573 01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:51,640 Like some of us are more tired on parts of the trails than others. 1574 01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,880 And we've just got to like keep each other moving. 1575 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:57,680 Some Sam fam have been Sam fam since 2018, 2020. 1576 01:25:57,680 --> 01:25:58,840 They're already tired. 1577 01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:02,280 And then they get this Dow rushed on them and they're like, what the what, what come 1578 01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:03,480 on man. 1579 01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:07,320 And so they, you know, they're, they're pissed. 1580 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:08,780 They are mad. 1581 01:26:08,780 --> 01:26:18,580 And you heard that on both the podcasts, the, the Sam box discord, the sandbox style forums. 1582 01:26:18,580 --> 01:26:20,200 It was so obvious. 1583 01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,160 Some of them were not kind in their, in their perspective. 1584 01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:24,160 And along. 1585 01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:27,440 So that's the real spirit that I want to inject into this is that like we are the sand fam, 1586 01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:29,800 all of us, whether you're working for one of the brands that's that's building in the 1587 01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:32,280 sandbox, whether you're the gamer who's out there, whether you're somebody who's just 1588 01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:35,960 milking 50 sands off the polls that we're posting, all of them are part of our community. 1589 01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:40,760 And so I love that he gives those people their due, even though, you know, they, they, I 1590 01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:41,920 don't think they should be doing that. 1591 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:44,360 And it, it kind of hurts us. 1592 01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:46,560 The fact that we acknowledge that, yeah, they're doing it. 1593 01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:47,560 They're here, they're present. 1594 01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,000 They exist and not ignoring them. 1595 01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,560 I think that's, that's, that's cool. 1596 01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,080 That's the right move to make. 1597 01:26:55,080 --> 01:27:02,520 And that's, that's the real acknowledging existence without endorsing or accepting that 1598 01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:05,000 they're, that they should be doing that. 1599 01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,760 I mean, I feel tingles when I just say that kind of stuff out loud, because it's exciting 1600 01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:09,240 and we're building something awesome together. 1601 01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,680 And you and I agree on that. 1602 01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:12,680 It's exciting. 1603 01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,800 I feel the same sort of tingles, especially. 1604 01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:20,800 And I felt that when Cyril talked through his perspective, I felt that same little tingle 1605 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:21,800 to me. 1606 01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:22,800 I mean, this is cool. 1607 01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:27,680 This is exciting because it unlocks potential and unlocks people's involvement and, and, 1608 01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:33,400 and kind of fades away with their fear or their fear. 1609 01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:35,440 It fades away mistrust, at least mine does. 1610 01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:37,960 And that's what we want to share here the most. 1611 01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,840 So we're going to move on through some of these other bullet points here in the discussion 1612 01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:41,840 with you. 1613 01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:42,840 Okay. 1614 01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,840 So really we want to take a minute to get back even into progressive decentralization. 1615 01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:46,200 We could give it another two minutes or so here. 1616 01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:49,080 And I mean, we've got nine bullets to get through and hopefully not too much longer 1617 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,800 been at this 45 minutes, but all of these deserve more unpacking and we'll get it. 1618 01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:53,800 I've been at this two hours. 1619 01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:55,240 So this is just us beginning to address these with everybody. 1620 01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:57,320 So I mean, let's go back to progressive decentralization for a minute. 1621 01:27:57,320 --> 01:27:58,760 Now we refer to the article in Medium. 1622 01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:00,520 Can you speak to this for a second more? 1623 01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:01,520 Yeah, of course. 1624 01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:05,000 I guess I'd invite everybody to read the article that's been posted quite some time ago. 1625 01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:06,680 We shed some light on what we made. 1626 01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:11,600 And that was the, the Medium article that I did a podcast episode on. 1627 01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:15,880 It was episode number 33. 1628 01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,120 Take a look, episode number 33. 1629 01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:21,800 And again, that's for, that's from the perspective of someone who did not hear this episode. 1630 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,640 I didn't hear this episode until now when it just got published five days ago. 1631 01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:27,640 This article was published in October 7th. 1632 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:32,600 So I was a little bit harsh and you can see all those questions I had and intensity that 1633 01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:37,440 I brought because I needed to figure out things that weren't being, that weren't obvious to 1634 01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:41,880 me or anyone else that I could, that I asked and like, Hey, what does this mean that there? 1635 01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:43,240 I don't know. 1636 01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:47,720 We're all, we're all just sitting around the campfire going, I have no idea. 1637 01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:48,720 Meant by progressive decentralization. 1638 01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:53,280 But at the core of our strategy was to do the handholding with the community, right? 1639 01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:54,280 We've seen many DAOs failed. 1640 01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:59,820 I mean, the DAO was a, was a first, very first catastrophic, unfortunately, example. 1641 01:28:59,820 --> 01:29:05,120 And what we wanted to do is to allocate trust on a progressive basis and making sure only 1642 01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:08,680 certain proposal that we know are really aligned with the sandbox value get to pass or having 1643 01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,960 a strong curation process that I know sometimes can be frustrating. 1644 01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:11,960 I know that. 1645 01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:13,920 But it's here for to help eventually the community, right? 1646 01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:17,640 That is not necessarily professional in evaluating what's a good proposal versus what's a bad 1647 01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,640 proposal that some more often than not the author are professional, but not everybody's 1648 01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,600 a professional at project management or software delivery or whatever it could be. 1649 01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:24,600 Right? 1650 01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:26,640 So I know sometimes can be frustrating, but that's really what we're trying to do here 1651 01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:30,560 with this whole curation process is to making sure the proposal that are, that have been 1652 01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:34,200 vetted and have been decomposed as being possibly understood by the majority. 1653 01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:35,200 This is what we really, what we're trying to achieve. 1654 01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:37,840 I'm going to give quite a quick anecdote. 1655 01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:39,440 Two weeks ago. 1656 01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:42,200 By the way, if you're watching this, I love your anecdotes. 1657 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:47,760 I think when you started doing those anecdotes in the, your form responses to me the past 1658 01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:53,600 month, you did a couple of quick examples and quick stories that really helped me start 1659 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:55,760 to peer into who you are. 1660 01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,360 And some of those, those really, really fascinating things that helped me piece together what 1661 01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:01,520 was happening. 1662 01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,840 That's really where the started of the unwinding of my mistrust started was when you started 1663 01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:11,080 giving us stories and anecdotes of situations that you had, you'd faced and some of them 1664 01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:14,520 were very applicable to the Dow and I'm like, Oh, I get, I get that. 1665 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:15,520 I get that. 1666 01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:21,200 So the fact that you keep doing these anecdotes, I think helps me understand better you and 1667 01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:23,200 your decision making. 1668 01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:26,480 French company that is doing potato chips, ran a poll on Twitter about what should be 1669 01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:27,480 done next labor, right? 1670 01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:28,480 That could be a Dow experiment as well. 1671 01:30:28,480 --> 01:30:29,480 You know what we should, you're good. 1672 01:30:29,480 --> 01:30:30,480 Sure could. 1673 01:30:30,480 --> 01:30:31,480 And that the two, more than two, 2.5 million people voted. 1674 01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:32,480 Right. 1675 01:30:32,480 --> 01:30:33,480 So it was a huge success. 1676 01:30:33,480 --> 01:30:40,400 But the flavor that got voted the most was gasoline. 1677 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:41,400 That's true. 1678 01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:45,560 That is one thing you have to watch out for as taking in too much of the community input 1679 01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:50,680 is the flavor that got voted the most was gasoline. 1680 01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:52,160 Nope. 1681 01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:53,520 Nope. 1682 01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,360 Can't do that. 1683 01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,320 So the potato chips company had to do a very awkward call back. 1684 01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,320 Oh no, actually we didn't meant that really was just for fun. 1685 01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:08,000 See, that's where I disagree with community with companies nowadays doing that sort of 1686 01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:09,000 thing. 1687 01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,240 The play isn't to be like, oh no, we didn't really mean it. 1688 01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:14,360 No, you meant it when you published it. 1689 01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:16,740 You just you got a response you weren't expecting. 1690 01:31:16,740 --> 01:31:23,160 So what instead you I think my personal opinion when it comes to transparency is acknowledge 1691 01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:24,760 that yeah, we did post this. 1692 01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:29,840 However, we got a response we weren't expecting and we clearly cannot offer gasoline flavored 1693 01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:30,840 potato chips. 1694 01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:32,320 And you just say that. 1695 01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:38,600 Then the rest of the world is me like, yeah, we know. 1696 01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:42,920 No one's going to seriously be like, no, no, you should definitely do gasoline potato chips. 1697 01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:48,560 Now that's that's not that's not a realistic option. 1698 01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:53,560 So I take zeroes point where he's going with this analogy is taken too far. 1699 01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:58,160 Community involvement can be a negative thing can be a detriment. 1700 01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:59,200 I agree. 1701 01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:01,480 Taken too far it can. 1702 01:32:01,480 --> 01:32:05,440 That's why we have a DAO administrator with the authority to make a decision. 1703 01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:10,120 Because at a certain point, the feedback has been given. 1704 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:12,440 The inputs have been taken from the community. 1705 01:32:12,440 --> 01:32:15,040 It's time to make a decision and move forward. 1706 01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:17,120 And then we do the same thing next time. 1707 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:20,800 We process we iterate community. 1708 01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,840 There was the intern who's decided to make that poll and it was not really their attention. 1709 01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,800 So you see how this stuff could derail. 1710 01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:27,720 Another experiment was in 2016. 1711 01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:31,200 The Royal Navy UK went out and published a poll about naming the next. 1712 01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:36,080 I remember this and the name was want was Boaty McBoatface. 1713 01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:37,080 Boaty McBoatface. 1714 01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,720 Again, as a joke, Boaty McBoatface. 1715 01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,640 The Royal Navy wanted to name a ship. 1716 01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:46,320 They posted a poll out and the poll that got this made the news. 1717 01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,160 This made international news. 1718 01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:53,960 And the answer that was most voted on was Boaty McBoatface. 1719 01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,520 Now that was a little bit less serious than gasoline on potato chips. 1720 01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,200 But it is part of the Royal Navy's military image. 1721 01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:06,800 So did they name their big vessel, I think it was a destroyer or cruiser, a Boaty McBoatface? 1722 01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:08,520 No, they didn't. 1723 01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:10,240 But they did handle it pretty well. 1724 01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:12,480 And Cyril talks about this. 1725 01:33:12,480 --> 01:33:14,440 But you know, and they had to make sense out of it. 1726 01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:17,040 I think they decided to name a skip that was inside the boat, like a smaller one. 1727 01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:18,040 They actually named it that way. 1728 01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:20,080 And they keep the whole boat with the Boat Series name. 1729 01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:21,080 So I guess my point. 1730 01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:22,080 Yeah. 1731 01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:28,280 The reality was they named it the HMS something normal military. 1732 01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:32,680 But they named one of the smaller vessels inside the ship Boaty McBoatface. 1733 01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:38,440 So they still found a way to honor the intent, the spirit of what was asked. 1734 01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:42,760 But they couldn't they didn't feel like it was reasonable to name the entire vessel a 1735 01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:46,680 military vessel made for war, Boaty McBoatface. 1736 01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:51,120 So that's just funny. 1737 01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,040 Like how do you deal with the reality of the situation? 1738 01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:57,240 Not what you wanted to happen, not what should have happened, but what did happen. 1739 01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:00,680 You put out a poll for potato chips and ask people what they want. 1740 01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:02,920 The people say they want gasoline. 1741 01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,760 Clearly you're not going to give them gasoline potato chips. 1742 01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,120 So what do you do? 1743 01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:10,400 What I don't think you should do is like, oh, no, no, we were just kidding. 1744 01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:11,400 You weren't kidding. 1745 01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:13,540 You weren't kidding when you asked the question. 1746 01:34:13,540 --> 01:34:16,420 But now that you got an answer that you have to make sense out of that doesn't make sense 1747 01:34:16,420 --> 01:34:18,480 to you. 1748 01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:19,920 Acknowledge that it happened. 1749 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:25,200 Okay, don't don't backtrack because then you look like you don't look like you're in a 1750 01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:26,400 good place. 1751 01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:33,080 But the military, the British Royal Navy saying, yeah, we're not going to name it HMS, whatever. 1752 01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:39,920 But HMS Boaty McBoatface, you know, a ship that's firing salvos at the enemy. 1753 01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:45,080 But we're going to name one of our smaller vessels that something a little bit less serious, 1754 01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:46,080 maybe. 1755 01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:49,240 Yeah, that is acknowledging the reality. 1756 01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:50,240 What did happen? 1757 01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:51,240 Not what should have or could have happened. 1758 01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:56,400 One is those stuff can derail pretty fast and trolls are a universal constant, I would 1759 01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:57,400 say in this world. 1760 01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:58,400 Sure. 1761 01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:00,320 And that's maybe what we're trying to do with the progressive decentralization, like trying 1762 01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:01,320 to be a bit of hand holding. 1763 01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:07,040 And this is a transition and we will, as the community, you know, show the good proposal 1764 01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:08,880 and we trust them more and more. 1765 01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:11,520 We really wish some of that control. 1766 01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:18,520 So here's where, yeah, they, let's go back a couple seconds. 1767 01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:30,320 It seems like they weren't really doing progressive decentralization. 1768 01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:34,640 It seemed like there was more centralization happening, especially now that we went from 1769 01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:41,080 a anyone can submit a SIP to the Dow team to now the Dow team has to invite you to do 1770 01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:42,080 that. 1771 01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:47,400 So that seemed like a reversal of decentralization after the Dow wasn't launched. 1772 01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:49,680 So it didn't seem like things were trending in the right direction. 1773 01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:52,860 It seemed like there was more power being held by the Dow admin team. 1774 01:35:52,860 --> 01:35:55,760 And so this hand holding seemed like it was too much hand holding. 1775 01:35:55,760 --> 01:36:00,600 And because we looked at the Dow article and it just didn't make sense of it, it was too 1776 01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:01,600 many questions. 1777 01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:06,240 It was too against what we were expecting. 1778 01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:12,560 That's where the mistrust and the anger grew more and more and more until this episode 1779 01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,560 where he explains his rationale and intent. 1780 01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:21,880 And we will, as the community, you know, show the good proposal and we trust them more and 1781 01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:22,880 more. 1782 01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:24,360 We really wish some of that control. 1783 01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:26,480 And right there, I went on the word some. 1784 01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:29,120 So he said some of the control. 1785 01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:33,680 But if not even, but interesting thing to me is that I've been keeping track of what 1786 01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:36,140 Seb has been saying about decentralization. 1787 01:36:36,140 --> 01:36:39,200 And he's mentioned no less than three or four times on different podcasts. 1788 01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:48,520 And the latest one was with me about was that he intends Seb, his vision is that the SanFam 1789 01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:55,000 community takes over part of product development, part of running the sandbox company. 1790 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:59,440 And he even said more recently than that, I can't recall which podcast it was at this 1791 01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:00,440 point. 1792 01:37:00,440 --> 01:37:05,840 But he even said more recently in that outright that he hopes that in five years, in some 1793 01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:11,360 number of years, that the community, the Dow is running the sandbox game company. 1794 01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:19,360 Now, whether or not that that's a founder's dream and goal versus the realistic plan of 1795 01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:23,040 what will happen remains to be seen. 1796 01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:31,920 But Seb has been not, he has been very clear about that goal multiple times, even from 1797 01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:33,960 the early AMAs. 1798 01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:39,160 So I believe him that that's what he wants to happen. 1799 01:37:39,160 --> 01:37:40,160 Whether or not that can happen. 1800 01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:41,160 We'll see. 1801 01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:42,160 We'll see. 1802 01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:43,160 And let's see. 1803 01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:49,320 I know I had the one with Mia Bao here, where they did the AMA and I did an AMA reaction 1804 01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:53,880 to it where I talked about that. 1805 01:37:53,880 --> 01:38:01,300 It was if you want to if you want to hear that specifically. 1806 01:38:01,300 --> 01:38:11,960 We interviewed Mia Bao and it was August 23rd when Mia posts a broadcast with Seb on Twitter. 1807 01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:15,960 And he said it was about two thirds of the way through. 1808 01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:26,800 They will be building Dungeon Game, Vampire Survival Game, and we're already talking with 1809 01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:28,560 a lot of other studios. 1810 01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:34,680 So progressively you're going to see proven gameplay from mobile, from PC, where you can 1811 01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,520 start enjoying sandbox, be on the game maker. 1812 01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:41,640 Okay, it was that 17 minutes is where it was. 1813 01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:46,640 Instead of always coming to the sandbox and ultimately to me in a very vertical structure 1814 01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:52,080 where like some of the team members will ask finally for an approval, we will encourage 1815 01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:54,200 them to know to do that. 1816 01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:59,120 It's amazing what you want to do, but ultimately it shouldn't be us as sandbox to decide what's 1817 01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:00,120 best for the platform. 1818 01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:02,360 It should be the community itself. 1819 01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:07,840 You should use their voting power through the sand and the land to decide if they think 1820 01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:13,080 like you're suggesting that what you propose is going to drive an impact. 1821 01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:15,240 What kind of impact can it drive? 1822 01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:19,840 Can it bring more users, more creators, more awareness? 1823 01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:25,960 Can it help the product to become better by deciding on features of the roadmap, by supporting 1824 01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:30,240 the development of custom tools that make the life of the creator easier? 1825 01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:33,120 That was one of the steps before. 1826 01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:38,360 To drive initiative like participating at a conference around the world like DEFCON 1827 01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:43,000 that's coming or Token 2049 in a matter of a few weeks. 1828 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:48,560 How much reward should be distributed during the value season and events and so on? 1829 01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:54,000 Ultimately, all of those decisions that we're making internally as a sandbox team will be 1830 01:39:54,000 --> 01:40:01,400 progressively allocated and handed over to the community to decide. 1831 01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:02,400 That's the Dow. 1832 01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:07,720 So Seb has said that no less than four or five times openly. 1833 01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:09,000 And I believe him. 1834 01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,400 I believe that that's what he wants to do. 1835 01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:12,400 We'll see. 1836 01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:18,440 I don't want to hold him to that specific goal because that's a pretty intense thing. 1837 01:40:18,440 --> 01:40:21,280 That's a pretty bold thing to say that. 1838 01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:22,920 And I believe he said that on my podcast too. 1839 01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:30,000 It was Sandow podcast eight, I believe with my interview with Seb, where handing over 1840 01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:35,000 the entire product team to a Dow, that's bold goal. 1841 01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:38,580 I am cautiously optimistic about that. 1842 01:40:38,580 --> 01:40:40,120 So we'll see. 1843 01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:43,800 But in any case, Seb has not been unclear about that. 1844 01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:44,940 He's been very clear. 1845 01:40:44,940 --> 01:40:49,860 So where Cyril just said some of the control, I wondered at that word. 1846 01:40:49,860 --> 01:40:53,560 Is that like a scaling back of Seb's original intent? 1847 01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:58,440 Or is it just, it's going to be some over time and then more full? 1848 01:40:58,440 --> 01:41:01,100 That'd be like my follow on question for all this. 1849 01:41:01,100 --> 01:41:06,040 But it's not something to kick up a ton of dust over right now. 1850 01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:09,940 Like I would have if I had not heard the rest of this episode. 1851 01:41:09,940 --> 01:41:14,280 If I just heard that part and be like, all right, I still be intense about, well, why 1852 01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:16,840 did you just say some? 1853 01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:23,080 When Seb, your boss, maybe I don't even know what the relationship is, but Seb, the founder 1854 01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,620 says I want to give it to the Dow and you're here. 1855 01:41:25,620 --> 01:41:30,600 You are the Dow admin who's supposed to work for the community and with us saying that 1856 01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:31,920 we're going to get some over. 1857 01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:34,080 Like, who are you to say that? 1858 01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:41,440 But if now that I've taken in the whole episode and I've seen this, I get, I think I don't 1859 01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:43,800 need to, I didn't need to blow up like that. 1860 01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:44,800 This is a conversation. 1861 01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:46,960 It's an iteration we're building together. 1862 01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:52,680 So while they are interested, Cyril just said he's interested in making sure we, we do this 1863 01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:57,880 progressively that we give more and more trust and control. 1864 01:41:57,880 --> 01:41:58,880 Okay. 1865 01:41:58,880 --> 01:41:59,880 Okay. 1866 01:41:59,880 --> 01:42:01,520 Let's start with that. 1867 01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:07,040 And then we can talk about the spectrum of whether or not it should be some or more full 1868 01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:08,040 or what. 1869 01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:11,800 It's always been all intense with this, right? 1870 01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:13,480 That was really good. 1871 01:42:13,480 --> 01:42:14,480 Those are some great remarks. 1872 01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:18,480 I hope people are the meaning behind their drawing that parallel. 1873 01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:21,880 It's really easy for everything to go awry with what could even be a seemingly innocent 1874 01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:25,560 joke and we're talking about building the future of a gaming ecosystem, right? 1875 01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:28,640 It's like building that billion dollar warship or something. 1876 01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:31,360 It's right into the process a little bit as well. 1877 01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:36,040 You know, like the challenges with the complexity of sometimes this curation process and, you 1878 01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:41,640 know, this one impacts me specifically because I have submitted I think six sips. 1879 01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:44,600 I'm sure I've submitted six. 1880 01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:47,920 I've put 10. 1881 01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:49,560 See where, wait, there we are. 1882 01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:53,040 So I put 10 on the sandbox ideas forum. 1883 01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:57,280 So Windows resizing roadmap of releases, end game inventory filter, Dow revenue option 1884 01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:02,560 study, Sandex, the Sandow podcast, builders challenge working group, sandbox governance 1885 01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:08,280 working group, reduce Dow voting quorum requirement, establishing sandbox wallet voting criteria. 1886 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:11,320 I put those 10 on the SIP ideas forum. 1887 01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:17,440 I submitted six of them to the process before it changed last month. 1888 01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:21,660 So I'm being grandfathered into continuing that to vote. 1889 01:43:21,660 --> 01:43:25,160 So this impacts me big time. 1890 01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:29,400 And all of these were sourced from some sort of problem statement in the community that 1891 01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:30,400 was left unresolved. 1892 01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:36,400 The windows resizing and end game filter was things that we've been asking for for years 1893 01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:38,360 in the sandbox community. 1894 01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,720 SIP releases is just trying to figure out what the world is coming to us on these products 1895 01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:48,520 because most of us, most of these studios, when we try to build an experience, we have 1896 01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:52,680 to build to not only what is now, but also what is going to happen in the future. 1897 01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:58,120 I just built floor droppers and builders challenge one, which was February this year. 1898 01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:03,880 By May, it was already obsolete and things were breaking. 1899 01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:08,920 And so that, and if you noticed in the beginning of floor droppers, when it was released with 1900 01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:11,280 Alpha season four, there were bugs. 1901 01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:16,080 That was because the new release of Game Maker broke some of the mechanics that were working 1902 01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:18,240 perfectly the day before. 1903 01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:21,040 It was so frustrating to have to try and fix that. 1904 01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:26,400 So knowing the roadmap of releases of what is going to come out in these products is 1905 01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:32,480 hugely helpful to a business person and to a studio like myself and MetaWorlds. 1906 01:44:32,480 --> 01:44:39,080 As it is with Touche, as it is with Sandrush, so many of us have commented on that SIP as 1907 01:44:39,080 --> 01:44:40,080 wanting it. 1908 01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:41,600 We need it. 1909 01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:45,840 If you want us to make good business decisions, we need to know what is coming down the pike 1910 01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:48,660 for capability and tooling. 1911 01:44:48,660 --> 01:44:55,440 And I'm going to be going over that episode, the sandbox ecosystem and the business of 1912 01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:59,480 game making as a separate podcast in the future. 1913 01:44:59,480 --> 01:45:01,120 Dow revenue option study. 1914 01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:02,680 This was a lesson learned from eight point Dow. 1915 01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:05,740 It is running out of money and it's running out of money fast. 1916 01:45:05,740 --> 01:45:12,960 And instead of colliding with time and not doing anything until the end, I want to fix 1917 01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:14,540 that thing now. 1918 01:45:14,540 --> 01:45:22,000 I have some very professional, very well educated and expert teams that I have partnerships 1919 01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:28,200 waiting to be turned on with them. 1920 01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:33,880 And top consulting firms in the world to help us identify revenue streams of revenue that 1921 01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:37,960 we can put into place now so that we start to accrue revenue and be self-sufficient as 1922 01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:42,760 a Dow so that one day if the sandbox team isn't able to give us that fifteen point five 1923 01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:47,640 million sand every year, then we're still self-sufficient. 1924 01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:50,320 We can still decide for ourselves what we want to do with our budget because we still 1925 01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:51,560 have money coming in. 1926 01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:57,000 And this is going to be stuff that's organic, things that we don't have to do that contrived 1927 01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:02,760 things like selling, I don't know, having a bake sale or selling parts of the IP. 1928 01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:04,120 Like none of that. 1929 01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:10,840 We're talking things that are organic and inherent to Web3 and the sandbox community. 1930 01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:14,720 Things that it's not going to take away from us, but we'll add to. 1931 01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:17,120 I built a team that's ready to do that. 1932 01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:24,360 It's just going through the review of the Dow admin team to get to vote. 1933 01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:29,200 And that podcast is this one to expand it so that I can have a people do things that 1934 01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,200 I'm not very good at. 1935 01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:36,200 And so I can turn out better podcasts, faster and better quality. 1936 01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:37,400 Yeah. 1937 01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:38,400 Reach more audience. 1938 01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,220 Builders challenge working group, sandbox governance working group. 1939 01:46:41,220 --> 01:46:45,560 That's because of the sandbox special counsel and advisory board not being really in the 1940 01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:47,600 community very much right now. 1941 01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:54,800 So Apecoin has working groups as do other other DOWs and they seem to work. 1942 01:46:54,800 --> 01:47:00,400 Elected people who help manage more day to day stuff for the community. 1943 01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:04,960 And yeah, Sandex was, I thought was a great idea at the time, but it's basically like 1944 01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:11,560 a phone book of major landowners because Quorum used to be a huge issue. 1945 01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:17,360 Almost half of the SIPs that have been gone to vote have failed because of Quorum. 1946 01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:22,160 And so the Sandex was one way to go about combating that. 1947 01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:29,200 Might not be needed now that delegates is out with 24 million voting power combined 1948 01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,880 with all 12 to voting million power each. 1949 01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:36,560 And then reducing Dow voting Quorum, that one got a lot of positive feedback from the 1950 01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:41,440 community may not be needed anymore because of the delegates and the voting power they 1951 01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:42,440 now have separately. 1952 01:47:42,440 --> 01:47:50,040 But I was, I got a lot of feedback on reducing it at least by 25%, maybe even half. 1953 01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:51,360 But maybe we don't need to anymore. 1954 01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:52,360 We'll see. 1955 01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:56,200 We'll see how the delegate system works. 1956 01:47:56,200 --> 01:48:02,040 And then last but not least will be sandbox voting wallet criteria, which was all about 1957 01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:07,080 establishing different criteria for when the sandbox could use its 27 million voting power 1958 01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:09,400 because it sometimes it used it and sometimes it didn't. 1959 01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:13,440 It wasn't obvious why it used it. 1960 01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:17,760 And it wasn't clear, especially when Seb said early on that they were going to resist using 1961 01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:19,720 it. 1962 01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:24,120 But they have been using it in some cases. 1963 01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:28,600 So I want to establish criteria to make that make that a thing. 1964 01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:37,400 But that might be that might no longer be needed with the sandbox remains to be seen 1965 01:48:37,400 --> 01:48:44,680 if the 24 million voting power given to the delegates came from that 27 million wallet. 1966 01:48:44,680 --> 01:48:50,240 If it did, we probably don't need to anymore. 1967 01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:51,840 Probably but we'll see. 1968 01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:57,320 27 minus 24, still a 3 million voting power. 1969 01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:59,740 That's quite a bit. 1970 01:48:59,740 --> 01:49:03,280 What that might turn into though, that I'm thinking about that right now is that the 1971 01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:08,320 sandbox wallet becomes a voice of itself. 1972 01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:12,760 And it's on it's on par with the other 12 delegates. 1973 01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:13,760 That is brilliant. 1974 01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:17,760 Oh my gosh, if that was the plan all along, that's brilliant. 1975 01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:22,340 Because then then it's reasonable for the sandbox wallet, which is the company to be 1976 01:49:22,340 --> 01:49:27,040 its own voice, its own mini delegation, almost don't delegate. 1977 01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:33,240 So instead of 12 delegates, we have 13 at 13 delegate is the sandbox company. 1978 01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:35,440 advocating for itself. 1979 01:49:35,440 --> 01:49:39,720 I have no problem with them voting however they want to after that, because it makes 1980 01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:40,720 sense. 1981 01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:45,640 You have the different delegates that have parity, then you have the game company has 1982 01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:48,520 a little bit more than the other delegates, which is fine. 1983 01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:54,600 It's the company it owns the product, and it can vote its own choice. 1984 01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:55,600 Make sense. 1985 01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:57,240 The company has a voice too. 1986 01:49:57,240 --> 01:50:00,040 It is part of the ecosystem. 1987 01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:01,040 Right there. 1988 01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:06,160 See sandbox team, I consider part of the ecosystem. 1989 01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:08,400 Cool, cool, cool. 1990 01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:12,000 So I mean, that can you remark a little bit further on that? 1991 01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:15,000 So I think we touched a bit on that when we mentioned six guidelines previously. 1992 01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:17,760 But basically, our idea is the objective is to fall to have like the highest possible 1993 01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,680 quality in terms of the proposal, and the way they're written, not judging the content 1994 01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:24,400 itself, but the way in the way that presented to the community, right, we want to have stuff 1995 01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:28,280 that can be understood by most that has all of the right boxes being checked being, for 1996 01:50:28,280 --> 01:50:31,320 example, budget timeline milestone, why you're trying to achieve why December should be doing 1997 01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:33,880 this basically, and that's all the most important things in the proposal itself. 1998 01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:38,400 So making sure these are thoroughly, you know, completed and made available to the public. 1999 01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:42,280 As for the process itself, it is not perfect. 2000 01:50:42,280 --> 01:50:43,280 This is not perfect. 2001 01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:44,360 There's no perfect process. 2002 01:50:44,360 --> 01:50:47,440 This is still discovering the best way to do that right like today I would qualify. 2003 01:50:47,440 --> 01:50:50,960 I'm so glad you said that it wasn't obvious to me that that was their perspective. 2004 01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:56,420 When they sent the Dow medium article, declaring the new way, it felt like a declaration like 2005 01:50:56,420 --> 01:50:58,400 you will do it this way. 2006 01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:02,440 And it's some of it felt like a jab at the community. 2007 01:51:02,440 --> 01:51:03,440 Maybe even me, please. 2008 01:51:03,440 --> 01:51:04,560 That's how I took it. 2009 01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:07,640 I don't I don't think that's how the Dow team meant it. 2010 01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:11,240 And hearing this, I definitely don't think that the Dow team meant it like that. 2011 01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:14,840 So but it wasn't clear that this is a process. 2012 01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:20,300 It came out heavy handed, like thou shalt do it this way, because we know what's best. 2013 01:51:20,300 --> 01:51:24,040 And that's why I was so intense with my response in my podcast on that one. 2014 01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:40,160 I think that's episode 33. 2015 01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:41,960 This is where I might differ with Cyril. 2016 01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:48,240 I think that the Dow operations budget should be used to bring on more people to have a 2017 01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:55,720 higher bigger pipeline for sips so that those sips can be considered. 2018 01:51:55,720 --> 01:52:02,600 I think people should be able to be able to submit for recognition for for vote and not 2019 01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:06,040 be gated through an invite system. 2020 01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:10,360 I think that's just a disagreement or a difference in opinion between Cyril and myself. 2021 01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:14,940 I respect that he has the the right and the authority to do what he's doing. 2022 01:52:14,940 --> 01:52:18,680 And after he explained himself like this, and I understand his rationale, I don't have 2023 01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:19,680 a problem anymore. 2024 01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:22,140 I don't feel so intense about it. 2025 01:52:22,140 --> 01:52:23,720 We will figure it out together. 2026 01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:26,240 We will build this together. 2027 01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:27,900 This is a process. 2028 01:52:27,900 --> 01:52:30,000 And I don't feel like they're declaring that we are right. 2029 01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:31,220 We know what's going on. 2030 01:52:31,220 --> 01:52:35,040 You don't, which is what the article felt like. 2031 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:38,120 That's what the Dow admin article felt like. 2032 01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:39,120 Every single idea. 2033 01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:40,120 So there's no hard science behind this. 2034 01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:41,620 How do we select the best proposal? 2035 01:52:41,620 --> 01:52:44,760 It's a combination of community interests, some judgments made by human beings that are 2036 01:52:44,760 --> 01:52:46,240 machine that have their own judgment as well. 2037 01:52:46,240 --> 01:52:49,720 There's no like automated process from idea to like separation to vote. 2038 01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:55,200 This would be another mini pillar that I would note is him saying that, look, we're human, 2039 01:52:55,200 --> 01:52:56,200 right? 2040 01:52:56,200 --> 01:52:58,920 That, you know, we are humans. 2041 01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:00,080 We are not machines. 2042 01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:05,360 I feel like that's that's a plea of acknowledgement that, look, look, we're just trying to figure 2043 01:53:05,360 --> 01:53:06,360 this out. 2044 01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:07,360 Like you all are like San Fam. 2045 01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:12,720 The Dow admin team is not like this end all be all omnipresent omniscient thing. 2046 01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:14,760 We're just trying to figure it out too. 2047 01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:16,440 And I respect that. 2048 01:53:16,440 --> 01:53:23,080 I respect that it alleviates my anger at feeling like the Dow admin team thinks that it knows 2049 01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:28,680 everything and that it knows San Fam when some of some of the Dow admin team has not 2050 01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:30,040 been San Fam that long. 2051 01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:33,560 So how do they possibly know what San Fam believes? 2052 01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:34,560 Some of us do. 2053 01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:36,600 Some of us have a good pulse on the community. 2054 01:53:36,600 --> 01:53:39,720 Kuta, I think, has a good pulse. 2055 01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:44,440 I think he took a break for a little while as an ambassador, but it feels like he has 2056 01:53:44,440 --> 01:53:46,000 a good pulse in the community. 2057 01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:47,560 Does Cyril have a good pulse? 2058 01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:48,680 I didn't think so. 2059 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,400 I didn't think that the Dow admin team had a good pulse. 2060 01:53:51,400 --> 01:53:53,680 They really understood what San Fam was all about. 2061 01:53:53,680 --> 01:53:56,440 And that's what was why I was so intense and frustrated. 2062 01:53:56,440 --> 01:54:01,400 But what I hear Cyril saying is, please get please give me some time to figure this out. 2063 01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:04,200 We're just people trying to figure it out like you. 2064 01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:05,200 Okay. 2065 01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:06,200 Okay. 2066 01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:07,360 That makes sense. 2067 01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:11,760 I feel my mistrust start to fade away as I'm listening to this. 2068 01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:13,080 Manual is done by human beings, right? 2069 01:54:13,080 --> 01:54:14,080 So how do we go about that? 2070 01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:17,800 Maybe it's not perfect, but we're trying our best to monitor the forum, look at the 2071 01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:21,200 ideas, assess what we think is good, assess what we think has great momentum. 2072 01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:24,160 And then we start a conversation with the author of this proposal. 2073 01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:27,320 And throughout this conversation that goes by having new guidelines being published, 2074 01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,240 it used to be a template now and they had that pros and cons. 2075 01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:32,680 And now we moved to a type form. 2076 01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:34,600 And the type form has pros and cons too. 2077 01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:39,640 I noted that in my thread back to the DAO admin team, some recommendations where the 2078 01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:46,160 form has a pretty intense con about the way you can communicate your plan. 2079 01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:51,520 And some things didn't align with the number of milestones you had to have with the tier 2080 01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:53,000 that you were submitting for. 2081 01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:54,240 So just little things like that. 2082 01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:57,400 But ultimately it feels like a step in the right direction. 2083 01:54:57,400 --> 01:54:59,800 Although I just don't know how this is going to play out over time. 2084 01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:03,240 A question where you answer some questions and you feel a database directly for us. 2085 01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:07,840 So it's more streamlined on our side and we believe it guides even more the author. 2086 01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:11,640 It's more streamlined on your side, but doesn't exactly feel more streamlined on our side 2087 01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:16,920 because it went from having about five steps to eight steps in order to do this new process. 2088 01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:21,440 So it did make things a little bit more complicated for us in the way that it was described in 2089 01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:24,280 the article and then on the forum post. 2090 01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:29,480 So I'm not convinced yet, but I give you all the benefit of the doubt now. 2091 01:55:29,480 --> 01:55:31,240 And let's just see how it works out. 2092 01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:32,840 Maybe it really is better. 2093 01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:35,520 It just looks like it's more complicated. 2094 01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:40,480 But having a, where I have to submit a step idea and then wait for an invitation, which 2095 01:55:40,480 --> 01:55:45,920 I have no idea if or when it's going to come or what you're basing it on. 2096 01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:49,320 It's more confusion is what that one was. 2097 01:55:49,320 --> 01:55:54,520 But after hearing the rationale, let's give it a try. 2098 01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:56,040 I'll be less intense about it. 2099 01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:58,880 Hopefully, you know, reduce frustrations on the way as well. 2100 01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:02,040 You talking about it right now is reducing my frustration. 2101 01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:04,280 And I think it will reduce many other frustrations. 2102 01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:05,280 Excellent. 2103 01:56:05,280 --> 01:56:08,080 This is really all such great information for people in the community who are interested 2104 01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:11,600 about how this is all happening, how what's going on, like quote unquote behind the scenes. 2105 01:56:11,600 --> 01:56:14,840 I know you've done a lot to reveal that through the weekly updates and the screenshots of 2106 01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:17,280 And again, I love that you've been doing that, Cyril. 2107 01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:21,680 I think it's been awesome that you've been showing that it's helped me out as a SIP author, 2108 01:56:21,680 --> 01:56:25,400 a business person, a community member to help me on many fronts. 2109 01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:31,880 And then you explaining your rationale here is really the final piece of the puzzle set 2110 01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:32,880 together. 2111 01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:33,880 Our notion. 2112 01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:34,880 Just please keep doing it. 2113 01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:39,400 Page and as much as your schedule allows my channel just to show everybody what's going 2114 01:56:39,400 --> 01:56:40,400 on. 2115 01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:43,640 So, I mean, that's great segue to the next bullet point here is, you know, just transparency 2116 01:56:43,640 --> 01:56:44,640 in decision making. 2117 01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:48,720 And, you know, this is a great start to things, just letting people meet the meet the Dow 2118 01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:49,720 team more personally. 2119 01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:50,720 Yes, it is. 2120 01:56:50,720 --> 01:56:54,880 You know, see behind your behind your thoughts, you know, what's what's driving and motivating 2121 01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:56,440 us and this is great. 2122 01:56:56,440 --> 01:57:00,840 So tell me more how we can how we can be transparent in decision making right now. 2123 01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:01,840 What are we doing already? 2124 01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:02,840 What can we do better? 2125 01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:05,200 And I also wanted to remark, if you're listening to this drop comments or if you've got open 2126 01:57:05,200 --> 01:57:08,040 channels with us, tell us, you know, when we ask these questions of each other, you're 2127 01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:09,040 part of the fam. 2128 01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:10,040 Tell us what's up. 2129 01:57:10,040 --> 01:57:11,040 Yeah, for sure. 2130 01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:13,240 We touched on this a little bit at the beginning. 2131 01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:14,240 This is like a great territory. 2132 01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:17,200 There's no perfect way to go about, you know, putting it out together and then administering 2133 01:57:17,200 --> 01:57:18,200 about right. 2134 01:57:18,200 --> 01:57:19,720 So we're making a conscious effort. 2135 01:57:19,720 --> 01:57:21,800 That's for sure to be transparent as possible. 2136 01:57:21,800 --> 01:57:24,480 I don't know to like I feel like you are now. 2137 01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:30,720 It didn't feel like that up until this episode and Bobby Kunta came into the mix. 2138 01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:37,560 Like you said earlier, you you are really focused on doing the big stuff first and the 2139 01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:41,840 transparency unfortunately took a backseat in many ways. 2140 01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:43,120 It has been getting better. 2141 01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:46,200 And now I say it's much better. 2142 01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:47,200 We have the transparency page. 2143 01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:49,880 So I want to give you kudos and props for doing that. 2144 01:57:49,880 --> 01:57:50,880 Thank you. 2145 01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:53,480 On the on the on the dashboard on the website itself is called the dashboard and everybody 2146 01:57:53,480 --> 01:57:54,880 gets to see and see how much money is being spent. 2147 01:57:54,880 --> 01:57:57,200 There's been some challenge with this page, by the way, technical challenges. 2148 01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:58,200 But that's a conversation. 2149 01:57:58,200 --> 01:57:59,400 Yeah, we did notice. 2150 01:57:59,400 --> 01:58:04,560 I tend to use snapshot now because the technical difficulties and challenges on the proposal 2151 01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:08,800 website on the Dow, it doesn't it doesn't load properly all the time. 2152 01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:14,600 And then sometimes it misreports the percentage of the yes, no vote for another day. 2153 01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:17,280 But basically, when the community goes in there, you've got all of the smart wallets 2154 01:58:17,280 --> 01:58:20,040 that are associated to each of the budget and you get to see the expenses that are made. 2155 01:58:20,040 --> 01:58:22,760 We do have another dashboard that is more internal when you get to see forecasts, like 2156 01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:26,280 when you see it gets accepted, you know, payment gets relinquished in about my son's completion. 2157 01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:29,720 So I'm tracking like how much we already paid and that's visible to the community. 2158 01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:33,200 Just accessing the transparency page on the on the dashboard. 2159 01:58:33,200 --> 01:58:38,800 It's not it's not transparent which wallets which sips are getting paid out, because all 2160 01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:43,800 it shows is well, I'll show you all it shows is the wallets. 2161 01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:51,600 And you can't really tell which wallet is being paid out to what I mean, you might be 2162 01:58:51,600 --> 01:58:56,920 able to figure out based on the category that the sip was in which sip it is. 2163 01:58:56,920 --> 01:59:03,020 So for instance, the staking, the staking sip, you can probably tell that the staking 2164 01:59:03,020 --> 01:59:04,480 sip is this one. 2165 01:59:04,480 --> 01:59:07,680 Right, I think, but I can't I don't know. 2166 01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:11,600 All I can do is click poly scan and look at the wallet and see the transactions go to 2167 01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:14,640 different anonymous addresses. 2168 01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:20,760 I have no idea what that is, how to read this. 2169 01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:26,820 So the operations budget we know now is strictly for the DAO admin team, it wasn't always known 2170 01:59:26,820 --> 01:59:29,160 that that's what it was for. 2171 01:59:29,160 --> 01:59:32,720 Like there was upon a time when you could submit a sip under operations, I didn't know 2172 01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:37,760 was only claimed by the DAO admin team until like a month ago, when Cyril mentioned it 2173 01:59:37,760 --> 01:59:41,560 in a forum post in response to one of my q&a. 2174 01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:43,640 The intense q&a. 2175 01:59:43,640 --> 01:59:45,640 Thanks again, by the way, Cyril. 2176 01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,420 But you could submit for all of these. 2177 01:59:48,420 --> 01:59:51,400 And so it wasn't clear. 2178 01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:57,160 You know, they still show in many ways, I think they show incorrectly how much is left. 2179 01:59:57,160 --> 02:00:02,720 So I'm not I'm not exactly sure how this is helping me, except that I can kind of tell 2180 02:00:02,720 --> 02:00:05,560 maybe what sips fall in which buckets. 2181 02:00:05,560 --> 02:00:09,900 Maybe I haven't been able to figure it out yet. 2182 02:00:09,900 --> 02:00:15,040 So I've been relying on my own sheet. 2183 02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,720 It's what's what I call the DAO checkbook here. 2184 02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:23,040 I've been doing it myself, which which budget is it coming out of? 2185 02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:25,580 And yeah. 2186 02:00:25,580 --> 02:00:32,560 So like this one, there are game content has four sips that are in it. 2187 02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:36,360 You know, so does San initiatives. 2188 02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:38,040 So it's hard to figure that one out. 2189 02:00:38,040 --> 02:00:44,280 But I like that you're trying and you're trying to create a technical solution there. 2190 02:00:44,280 --> 02:00:46,140 I can see the wallets, which is awesome. 2191 02:00:46,140 --> 02:00:51,680 The wallets are hugely important to know, because that is that's like the final page 2192 02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:54,880 in quality assurance where I can check to see the numbers myself. 2193 02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:58,960 I just now need to know who who they've been paid to. 2194 02:00:58,960 --> 02:01:01,720 And maybe I don't need to know that. 2195 02:01:01,720 --> 02:01:06,160 But it's helpful to know how it's being paid out. 2196 02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:08,200 At least one of us needs to track it, you or us. 2197 02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:10,480 But there's also the forecast one. 2198 02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:14,200 And we're thinking about how that's also visible to the please make the forecast one visible. 2199 02:01:14,200 --> 02:01:20,480 Because I've had to create this thing is but this is a forecast mostly. 2200 02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:27,160 As soon as it gets approved, I record the expense and it tells me how much of the budget 2201 02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:33,640 loops, how much stop that, how much the budget is, how much has been spent per sip, how much 2202 02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:35,360 of the budget remains. 2203 02:01:35,360 --> 02:01:41,880 But what I don't know is how much is being spent along the way, because it's a fluid 2204 02:01:41,880 --> 02:01:43,360 tracking that I can't. 2205 02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:48,320 And I don't have the time right now to do so I don't have a solution in place. 2206 02:01:48,320 --> 02:01:51,800 Maybe if my sip passes, though. 2207 02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:56,920 If my sip passes for Sandow podcast, I might have the time to do it. 2208 02:01:56,920 --> 02:02:00,960 And at least have a teammate that can do it and expand, expand that. 2209 02:02:00,960 --> 02:02:02,960 It's all about notion. 2210 02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,600 And it's all, you know, a bit of manual work, plus, you know, a bit of feeling there. 2211 02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:08,600 And how to make that visible to the community, I think would be great as well. 2212 02:02:08,600 --> 02:02:11,080 So you've got six completion, you've got how many milestones been achieved and you got 2213 02:02:11,080 --> 02:02:12,080 how many? 2214 02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:15,880 If the notions are available on other dials, I would like to see this notion, same style 2215 02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:16,880 as notion. 2216 02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:21,760 I think it would, it would make a lot of things a lot of transparency issues go away. 2217 02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:24,400 How much money has been transferred to the other and how much will be transferred to 2218 02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:25,400 the other upon success. 2219 02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:26,400 That would be awesome. 2220 02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:29,760 Projections in our bills, you know, that we're regularly paying and all of that kind of stuff 2221 02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:33,280 that just we're just working towards sharing as much as we can. 2222 02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:34,840 But not everybody can be done overnight. 2223 02:02:34,840 --> 02:02:38,760 So this is this is a process and it takes time and it takes resources to get there. 2224 02:02:38,760 --> 02:02:43,200 I have the weekly, semi weekly, not so weekly operational updates. 2225 02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:49,240 See, I like that he recognizes that he didn't, he wasn't posting it every week, like he originally 2226 02:02:49,240 --> 02:02:54,040 said, then he went to bi weekly, but then he wasn't posting every bi weekly either. 2227 02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:56,640 I like that he acknowledges it and it's okay. 2228 02:02:56,640 --> 02:02:57,640 You acknowledge it. 2229 02:02:57,640 --> 02:02:58,640 All right. 2230 02:02:58,640 --> 02:02:59,640 All right. 2231 02:02:59,640 --> 02:03:00,640 I get it. 2232 02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:01,640 You've got a workload. 2233 02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:02,640 So do I. 2234 02:03:02,640 --> 02:03:03,640 I try to do every Monday. 2235 02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:04,640 I guess I haven't done these in a while. 2236 02:03:04,640 --> 02:03:08,080 I've been busy with delegations, but this is also an opportunity where I just screen, 2237 02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:11,120 I take screen grab of our Notion page and try to share some thoughts about what has 2238 02:03:11,120 --> 02:03:13,160 been our priority recently and what are we doing. 2239 02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:15,960 This is also another example of trying to be more transparent as well with the community. 2240 02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:18,880 And now we do, but I guess people will get the more direct connection and the ability 2241 02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:20,240 to interact more frequently. 2242 02:03:20,240 --> 02:03:25,880 And it's been great seeing that those Notion screenshots, that's, that was a big step forward. 2243 02:03:25,880 --> 02:03:27,120 And it helped. 2244 02:03:27,120 --> 02:03:33,200 It started to help unwind my frustrations about transparency to where leading today 2245 02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:37,400 to where most of them are gone now after watching this episode. 2246 02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:44,800 And as long as Kunta and Cyril are still doing these sorts of things, then most of my concerns 2247 02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:46,520 about transparency are gone. 2248 02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:50,280 There's a few left, but the vast majority of them are gone. 2249 02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:53,440 With us, like you mentioned at the beginning, in a couple of episodes, it will become the 2250 02:03:53,440 --> 02:03:54,440 more live conversation. 2251 02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:56,240 So I'm also looking forward to that. 2252 02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:57,400 Me too. 2253 02:03:57,400 --> 02:04:01,960 And I'm glad, now I am kind of glad you did it closed format to where I could see this 2254 02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:04,320 because it changed. 2255 02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:09,400 If I had been live while this was happening, I think I would have asked, not an insulting 2256 02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:12,160 question, but I would have asked a pointed question. 2257 02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:15,480 I would have asked, you know, where's the transparency? 2258 02:04:15,480 --> 02:04:18,640 What can we do to ensure that it's given? 2259 02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:20,040 But here you are explaining it. 2260 02:04:20,040 --> 02:04:23,280 And all I had to do was watch a podcast episode to figure it out. 2261 02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:24,280 Also an effort to be more transparent. 2262 02:04:24,280 --> 02:04:26,920 I'm not sure there's many guys that are doing this way, but this is what we're trying to 2263 02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:27,920 do. 2264 02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:28,920 Some do. 2265 02:04:28,920 --> 02:04:30,680 Some do it way more. 2266 02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:32,680 Some do it way less. 2267 02:04:32,680 --> 02:04:37,160 But yeah, many do transparency. 2268 02:04:37,160 --> 02:04:42,400 Like I said, I'm a part of Nine Dows officially, a membership of, but I'm really active in 2269 02:04:42,400 --> 02:04:43,400 like four or five. 2270 02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:44,400 Right. 2271 02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:45,400 Right. 2272 02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:49,320 So hopefully people dig all of this, you know, to get to meet us. 2273 02:04:49,320 --> 02:04:52,480 I think the more people even hear our conversations and how we're coming at this, the more that 2274 02:04:52,480 --> 02:04:55,240 and it's such an important word, the more that trust can be built, you know, because 2275 02:04:55,240 --> 02:05:00,120 Yes, Kunta hits it on the head. 2276 02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:04,800 The more that trust can be built, rebuilt, relative repaired. 2277 02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:05,800 Yes. 2278 02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:06,800 Yes. 2279 02:05:06,800 --> 02:05:09,920 I did not trust the Dow admin team. 2280 02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:10,920 I did not. 2281 02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:18,480 I felt like they lost my trust early on and I hadn't yet to see it be rebuilt. 2282 02:05:18,480 --> 02:05:22,320 And I'm sorry that I was so quick to judge that. 2283 02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:26,160 And I apologize to the Dow admin team via that forum post that I showed a little bit 2284 02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:28,280 earlier. 2285 02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:32,400 And I think Kunta hit it. 2286 02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:33,400 It trust. 2287 02:05:33,400 --> 02:05:37,040 That's, that's, I think a big part of what's missing right now is there are people that 2288 02:05:37,040 --> 02:05:38,680 are questioning what's going on. 2289 02:05:38,680 --> 02:05:39,680 I agree. 2290 02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:40,680 And I was one of them. 2291 02:05:40,680 --> 02:05:42,040 Because they're not seeing the process. 2292 02:05:42,040 --> 02:05:43,040 They don't understand it. 2293 02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:46,320 And, you know, they're not sure what even are the intentions of the Dow admin team. 2294 02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:48,360 When he says that, I'll just self ID. 2295 02:05:48,360 --> 02:05:49,840 He's talking about me. 2296 02:05:49,840 --> 02:05:53,400 I'm the one that said I don't trust the intentions. 2297 02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:58,960 I'm not seeing what I need to see to believe that the Dow admin team is, is really on our 2298 02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:01,480 side on San Fam's side. 2299 02:06:01,480 --> 02:06:06,160 I wasn't seeing what I expected to see in order to make that obvious to me. 2300 02:06:06,160 --> 02:06:10,280 And so I questioned the intentions of the Dow admin team. 2301 02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:14,560 And Kunta listened and took that in. 2302 02:06:14,560 --> 02:06:18,160 And I can see now he really did. 2303 02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:20,400 He really did understand and take that in. 2304 02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:22,200 He really is repairing relationships. 2305 02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:24,680 He's crushing it, man. 2306 02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:25,960 Absolutely crushing it. 2307 02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:29,860 And I appreciate, I appreciate how he handled it. 2308 02:06:29,860 --> 02:06:32,080 I appreciate that he did handle it. 2309 02:06:32,080 --> 02:06:36,760 And he is now handling it continuously, not just with me, but with other San Fam, because 2310 02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:38,360 I'm not the community. 2311 02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:39,760 I am part of the community. 2312 02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:41,200 I don't speak for the community. 2313 02:06:41,200 --> 02:06:42,200 I speak for myself. 2314 02:06:42,200 --> 02:06:45,680 I'm just journaling out in the opening. 2315 02:06:45,680 --> 02:06:48,720 And I just, a lot of people come and they do send me messages about stuff. 2316 02:06:48,720 --> 02:06:53,920 So I do get to hear different community members talk about their perspectives. 2317 02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:55,200 I don't speak for them. 2318 02:06:55,200 --> 02:07:00,400 All I can do is just advocate when they're not here. 2319 02:07:00,400 --> 02:07:01,920 That's all I can do. 2320 02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:04,560 And speak on behalf of myself, my own opinion. 2321 02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:07,600 Team R. Like, so to make all of this clear in the context of our shared mission together, 2322 02:07:07,600 --> 02:07:08,600 this is really valuable. 2323 02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:10,600 So it's so much to get together. 2324 02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:11,600 Very valuable. 2325 02:07:11,600 --> 02:07:13,640 We're trying to keep this under an hour, but it's not looking good, y'all. 2326 02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:19,080 So special counsel and advisory board selection and their roles and how they're compensated. 2327 02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:20,880 I mean, can speak to that for a moment. 2328 02:07:20,880 --> 02:07:23,080 And again, a reminder to everybody, we're going to try and unpack all of this deeper, 2329 02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:26,560 maybe in just like little short clip episodes of Sarah and I talking about things more so 2330 02:07:26,560 --> 02:07:27,560 you guys can get our thoughts. 2331 02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,360 But talk to me, Sarah. 2332 02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:33,960 Starting with special counsel, back to the sentiment about the first few SIPs being rushed. 2333 02:07:33,960 --> 02:07:36,640 We had to start somewhere and it was always our intention not to do an election process 2334 02:07:36,640 --> 02:07:39,600 about special counsel because we wanted this to start with the special counsel so we can 2335 02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,040 start processing SIPs as quickly as possible. 2336 02:07:42,040 --> 02:07:43,040 It was an intentional decision. 2337 02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:44,040 Maybe it was a design flaw. 2338 02:07:44,040 --> 02:07:47,400 Maybe it was a mistake, but it was definitely intentional. 2339 02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:51,680 Because we wanted to start somewhere and we'll start squeaking back. 2340 02:07:51,680 --> 02:08:04,040 So at 5615, he talks about special counsel and advisory board being appointed was an 2341 02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:06,120 intentional decision. 2342 02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:12,640 And then he adds, maybe it was a design flaw, which I think is self-actualization. 2343 02:08:12,640 --> 02:08:16,520 It might not have been a real design flaw in real life, but the fact that he's willing 2344 02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:22,800 to consider it, that Cyril is willing to consider that it was a design flaw, that meets the 2345 02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:26,280 intent of transparency and understanding the rationale. 2346 02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:31,240 The fact that you consider, Cyril, the fact that you consider that it could have been 2347 02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:32,240 a design flaw. 2348 02:08:32,240 --> 02:08:33,240 Maybe you messed up there. 2349 02:08:33,240 --> 02:08:34,240 Maybe you didn't. 2350 02:08:34,240 --> 02:08:36,880 And time will tell. 2351 02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:40,400 But we iterate on success as we see success. 2352 02:08:40,400 --> 02:08:46,440 So considering that to me is a mark of the sort of rationale that I want to see to trust 2353 02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:52,280 your intentions, to trust the Dow admin team, that you are taking into account different 2354 02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:59,200 points of view in your decision making and that you're not convinced of your own rightness. 2355 02:08:59,200 --> 02:09:04,200 And I'm seeing evidence right here that you are thoughtful in your approach and you're 2356 02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:07,680 considering different points of view and that you could be wrong. 2357 02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:08,880 And I think that's great. 2358 02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:11,960 I think that's wisdom. 2359 02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:17,240 To find that balance between efficiency and being as democratic as possible, finding that 2360 02:09:17,240 --> 02:09:18,240 right balance. 2361 02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:21,040 The way these guys have been selected, they're brilliant people. 2362 02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:22,040 They're captain of industry. 2363 02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:24,240 Like Yat and Seb, obviously, Seb's in the front of the sandbox. 2364 02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:25,840 Yat being the chairman of Animoca makes sense. 2365 02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:28,240 We've got Shannon Snow from World of Women. 2366 02:09:28,240 --> 02:09:30,760 We've got Félix Montagnon, very successful entrepreneur behind Aya Ni. 2367 02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:32,720 We have Jean-Michel Bayonne, that is an ex-executive at Ledger. 2368 02:09:32,720 --> 02:09:36,320 And I was running his own, I guess, fund about art and stuff. 2369 02:09:36,320 --> 02:09:37,320 These are all brilliant people. 2370 02:09:37,320 --> 02:09:40,280 And I think when you started an enterprise like a DAO, like it was an experiment, that's 2371 02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:41,280 what I wanted to say. 2372 02:09:41,280 --> 02:09:43,320 When you started an experiment like a DAO, you want to be surrounded by as many smart 2373 02:09:43,320 --> 02:09:44,320 people as you can. 2374 02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:45,680 And these people were friendly of us. 2375 02:09:45,680 --> 02:09:46,680 They wanted to help. 2376 02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:47,680 They volunteered to help. 2377 02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:50,520 They would come through many interviews to make sure they were appropriately motivated 2378 02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:52,160 and what they can bring to the table, et cetera, et cetera. 2379 02:09:52,160 --> 02:09:56,200 So I get the disappointment and the comment that these guys are not necessarily from the 2380 02:09:56,200 --> 02:09:57,200 community. 2381 02:09:57,200 --> 02:09:58,200 But I would argue that they are still SanFam. 2382 02:09:58,200 --> 02:10:01,920 They are SanFam because we talk about them regularly and they care about them. 2383 02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:04,120 I agree that they are SanFam. 2384 02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:09,360 I don't think some people might dispute that, but I don't think most people would dispute 2385 02:10:09,360 --> 02:10:10,360 that they are SanFam. 2386 02:10:10,360 --> 02:10:15,560 Most of them own different things that have been a part of SanFam for a long time, like 2387 02:10:15,560 --> 02:10:19,400 rural women that had their own experience, had their own avatars. 2388 02:10:19,400 --> 02:10:26,240 Hard to argue that the person who helps run the operations is not SanFam at that point. 2389 02:10:26,240 --> 02:10:28,760 I agree that they are SanFam. 2390 02:10:28,760 --> 02:10:33,880 I also agree with the next part that he's about to, comma, caveat. 2391 02:10:33,880 --> 02:10:35,400 They care about the sandbox and they care about this doubt. 2392 02:10:35,400 --> 02:10:36,400 So as long as they care about this doubt, it's sandbox. 2393 02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:37,400 They are SanFam, like any of us. 2394 02:10:37,400 --> 02:10:38,400 Right? 2395 02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:40,400 So not because they're not tweeting every day doesn't mean that's useless. 2396 02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:42,200 I just want to... 2397 02:10:42,200 --> 02:10:45,200 I agree and I acknowledge that point, Cyril. 2398 02:10:45,200 --> 02:10:48,920 They don't have to be tweeting every day to be considered useful or a part of SanFam. 2399 02:10:48,920 --> 02:10:49,920 Drive that point home. 2400 02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:50,920 They're very, very useful. 2401 02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:52,920 And I got regular interaction with them and I'm learning so much from these guys that 2402 02:10:52,920 --> 02:10:53,920 are frankly brilliant. 2403 02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:58,920 But I get the comment that they're not necessarily the closest to the game itself or the community 2404 02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:03,720 or they don't necessarily show up on the Discord channel and interact directly with the community. 2405 02:11:03,720 --> 02:11:04,720 Yep. 2406 02:11:04,720 --> 02:11:05,920 That's it. 2407 02:11:05,920 --> 02:11:10,600 That's acknowledging the elephant in the room, that the special counsel and the advisory 2408 02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:13,800 board, almost all of them. 2409 02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:18,640 There are some that have shown up since that have been on this podcast and I've reached 2410 02:11:18,640 --> 02:11:22,080 out to every single one of them, except for one who I can't figure out how to contact. 2411 02:11:22,080 --> 02:11:23,080 I can't find an email. 2412 02:11:23,080 --> 02:11:24,080 I can't find a Twitter account. 2413 02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:25,800 I can't find anything. 2414 02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:30,000 But I've reached out to every single advisory board and special council member asking for 2415 02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:31,000 an interview. 2416 02:11:31,000 --> 02:11:34,560 And I've prepared the questions I have. 2417 02:11:34,560 --> 02:11:37,080 I've watched tens, almost every single one of them. 2418 02:11:37,080 --> 02:11:40,200 I've watched at least 10 hours of interviews. 2419 02:11:40,200 --> 02:11:46,320 There's a couple that I couldn't find anything on, except maybe a few interviews, like maybe 2420 02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:48,280 four or five hours worth. 2421 02:11:48,280 --> 02:11:52,760 But we had Sue, I think I've watched 20 hours of interviews. 2422 02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:56,760 Seb before I interviewed him, I think I watched 15 hours of interviews. 2423 02:11:56,760 --> 02:12:03,160 I've really, I've dug deep to try and understand our special counsel and advisory board. 2424 02:12:03,160 --> 02:12:08,480 And then I developed the questions to tailor to what is their involvement? 2425 02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:10,920 What do they want to achieve before reelection? 2426 02:12:10,920 --> 02:12:16,440 But I've only been able to interview one special council member and two advisory board members. 2427 02:12:16,440 --> 02:12:21,800 So Mia Bao and Dr. Loretta Chen, I loved interviewing both of them. 2428 02:12:21,800 --> 02:12:24,780 It's clear what their mission is. 2429 02:12:24,780 --> 02:12:26,960 It's very clear their contributions. 2430 02:12:26,960 --> 02:12:31,840 And then I interviewed Seb, which needs no explanation of what his contribution is. 2431 02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:34,080 We all know. 2432 02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:38,920 But I wasn't able to and haven't been able to schedule an interview with other special 2433 02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:41,280 counsel and advisory board members. 2434 02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:45,120 Some of them have just declined. 2435 02:12:45,120 --> 02:12:47,400 Some of them didn't give me a reason why they declined. 2436 02:12:47,400 --> 02:12:50,120 They just said they couldn't. 2437 02:12:50,120 --> 02:12:53,220 Others didn't respond. 2438 02:12:53,220 --> 02:12:58,640 And others I exchange a couple of messages with waiting on the answer of what if they 2439 02:12:58,640 --> 02:13:00,960 will agree to go on the podcast. 2440 02:13:00,960 --> 02:13:05,240 So it's kind of a wide range of I'm sorry I'm not available. 2441 02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:07,880 I'm sorry I can't. 2442 02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:14,160 And not answering me at all, or answering me to say, hey, I got your message, but not 2443 02:13:14,160 --> 02:13:16,800 really answering if they will come on the podcast. 2444 02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:22,840 And so that it's been a little bit of frustration. 2445 02:13:22,840 --> 02:13:26,200 I understand they're all captains of industry, but every single one of them agreed to this 2446 02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:27,200 position. 2447 02:13:27,200 --> 02:13:31,080 And every single one of these positions has a part to play in our DAO. 2448 02:13:31,080 --> 02:13:33,360 So it is very important to us. 2449 02:13:33,360 --> 02:13:37,840 And I can't help that that they have full time jobs. 2450 02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:40,600 I can't help that. 2451 02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:48,600 They accepted the position and there's a responsibility there to help us through and lead in the position. 2452 02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:55,040 So that's the part where I'm kind of struggling with. 2453 02:13:55,040 --> 02:13:58,280 I don't want to poke and prod them too much on it. 2454 02:13:58,280 --> 02:14:00,440 I've largely left it alone. 2455 02:14:00,440 --> 02:14:03,620 I've reached out like I think twice per person. 2456 02:14:03,620 --> 02:14:08,520 And if they didn't respond at all, then I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they're 2457 02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:10,040 not responding. 2458 02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:14,680 I really, really want to interview each person and understand their perspective. 2459 02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:18,240 Even if it's 30 minutes, I'd really love to interview every person. 2460 02:14:18,240 --> 02:14:23,120 And I've reached out to all of them and I have huge sections of notes talking about 2461 02:14:23,120 --> 02:14:26,400 them, talking about their perspective, their background so that we're not rehashing stuff 2462 02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:28,000 that they've done elsewhere. 2463 02:14:28,000 --> 02:14:30,800 And we're really centered on sandbox. 2464 02:14:30,800 --> 02:14:32,800 What are they here to do in a DAO? 2465 02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:34,040 How are they contributing? 2466 02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:36,760 And what can we do as a family? 2467 02:14:36,760 --> 02:14:38,080 How can we support them? 2468 02:14:38,080 --> 02:14:42,660 Like it's a two way street, not just a one way them serving us. 2469 02:14:42,660 --> 02:14:45,520 So that's what I hope to get out of all of it. 2470 02:14:45,520 --> 02:14:51,760 But if Bobby is able to do it instead, if Kunta is able to do it on his podcast, I consider 2471 02:14:51,760 --> 02:14:52,760 it a win. 2472 02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:57,400 Because to me, I can trust that Kunta is going to have the conversation. 2473 02:14:57,400 --> 02:15:01,360 Not confronting them, but talking to them like people and then talking to us. 2474 02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:08,520 Like there are advisory board and special council members, not some outside publicity 2475 02:15:08,520 --> 02:15:09,520 tour. 2476 02:15:09,520 --> 02:15:14,100 And I guess that's what our intent to have a second body, that is the advisory board. 2477 02:15:14,100 --> 02:15:15,760 And these guys, they are much more closer to the game. 2478 02:15:15,760 --> 02:15:18,960 They have studios, they publish games, they are much closer to the sandbox. 2479 02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:22,320 And that was our idea is to have the council is maybe this type of person and the advisory 2480 02:15:22,320 --> 02:15:25,760 board is people that are really being more connected deeply with the sandbox game itself 2481 02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:30,280 and balance these two bodies out will bring ultimately more value to the table. 2482 02:15:30,280 --> 02:15:34,240 And I wondered how that's going, how he believes that's going. 2483 02:15:34,240 --> 02:15:37,680 That's the only thing he didn't expound on here was the advisory board. 2484 02:15:37,680 --> 02:15:40,320 I've interviewed two advisory board members, love them. 2485 02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:41,920 They are great. 2486 02:15:41,920 --> 02:15:47,200 And I don't feel like the advisory board is all that present in the discourse right now. 2487 02:15:47,200 --> 02:15:50,480 I think I want to try and change that with a panel of some kind. 2488 02:15:50,480 --> 02:15:53,360 But they haven't seen them much. 2489 02:15:53,360 --> 02:15:59,360 I've seen Loretta Chen, I've seen Mia Bao, she's been, they've been tweeting and doing 2490 02:15:59,360 --> 02:16:02,280 different things involvement in the sandbox. 2491 02:16:02,280 --> 02:16:04,840 I haven't seen the others as much. 2492 02:16:04,840 --> 02:16:06,040 And I wonder about that. 2493 02:16:06,040 --> 02:16:08,720 I wonder, are they supposed to be more involved? 2494 02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:12,120 Because it sounds like what Cyril just said is that they should. 2495 02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:16,400 But I reserve judgment on that. 2496 02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:21,480 I'm trying to understand better trying to ask questions more before I before I make 2497 02:16:21,480 --> 02:16:23,220 any judgment at all. 2498 02:16:23,220 --> 02:16:27,840 Because maybe there's a really good reason for why we don't see panels of advisory board 2499 02:16:27,840 --> 02:16:29,760 members talking about the sandbox. 2500 02:16:29,760 --> 02:16:31,800 I mean, they're not being paid. 2501 02:16:31,800 --> 02:16:37,560 They are they are paid zero sand, whereas special counsel is paid 150,000 sand per year. 2502 02:16:37,560 --> 02:16:44,520 So yeah, with that comes some measure of their time. 2503 02:16:44,520 --> 02:16:48,320 But as Cyril is about to point out, it's not quite like that. 2504 02:16:48,320 --> 02:16:51,040 They're not paid to be public. 2505 02:16:51,040 --> 02:16:56,080 It sounds like they're paid to give advice informally to Cyril so that he can improve 2506 02:16:56,080 --> 02:16:57,080 the doubt. 2507 02:16:57,080 --> 02:16:58,080 He's about to get into that. 2508 02:16:58,080 --> 02:16:59,080 That was on time. 2509 02:16:59,080 --> 02:17:01,640 Yep, that all makes perfect sense. 2510 02:17:01,640 --> 02:17:06,320 And another comments regarding related to that is the conflict of interest comment, 2511 02:17:06,320 --> 02:17:09,920 you know, that that's yet and said, I mean, there's it could be seen from either perspective. 2512 02:17:09,920 --> 02:17:10,920 It's like flip sides of a coin. 2513 02:17:10,920 --> 02:17:14,400 They're intimately connected and have a better understanding about the ecosystem, more unique 2514 02:17:14,400 --> 02:17:17,920 and more like attached in many ways than most people in the world. 2515 02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:22,280 But the other side is that it's a conflict of interest in making decisions towards decentralization. 2516 02:17:22,280 --> 02:17:26,080 You know, so it's that pull that it's a healthy push and pull in both directions to decentralize 2517 02:17:26,080 --> 02:17:30,720 and to to, you know, hold hands, as you put it up for a longer period of time. 2518 02:17:30,720 --> 02:17:35,200 So yeah, but I would give kudos to them like I would do the sandbox that would never have 2519 02:17:35,200 --> 02:17:36,200 happened. 2520 02:17:36,200 --> 02:17:37,960 I would I would give kudos to them as well. 2521 02:17:37,960 --> 02:17:42,600 It wasn't for the first of all, said from the sandbox with his co-founder, so if without 2522 02:17:42,600 --> 02:17:45,440 these two person, there wouldn't be no sandbox and no doubt. 2523 02:17:45,440 --> 02:17:47,400 So they want to doubt the six. 2524 02:17:47,400 --> 02:17:49,800 Like they teased about it four years ago in the white paper. 2525 02:17:49,800 --> 02:17:52,960 There was always an incentive to centralize and the whole question was when and how right. 2526 02:17:52,960 --> 02:17:54,200 And we made it happen. 2527 02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:58,480 And so conflict of interest, I would say they are very much they want the doubt to succeed 2528 02:17:58,480 --> 02:18:00,200 because they have no obligation to do a doubt. 2529 02:18:00,200 --> 02:18:01,200 Right. 2530 02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:02,200 This is their company. 2531 02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:03,200 They do whatever they want. 2532 02:18:03,200 --> 02:18:06,960 And the fact that they've, you know, ask the question, like, what can we do better? 2533 02:18:06,960 --> 02:18:07,960 What can we do differently? 2534 02:18:07,960 --> 02:18:10,080 How we can engage with the community in a different way and actually makes a lot of 2535 02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:11,080 sense with the sandbox. 2536 02:18:11,080 --> 02:18:13,800 Back to what I was saying at the beginning with the empowering creators and now empowering 2537 02:18:13,800 --> 02:18:16,640 the communities and gradually transferring more and more power makes a lot of sense. 2538 02:18:16,640 --> 02:18:18,040 But nobody asked them to do that. 2539 02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:19,040 Right. 2540 02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:22,400 And yet is obviously from from Animoca cares a lot about the success of the sandbox as 2541 02:18:22,400 --> 02:18:23,400 well. 2542 02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:28,760 So they're just pushing for us to get has outright said in a recent interview that sandbox 2543 02:18:28,760 --> 02:18:33,320 is a key strategic initiative of Animoca brands. 2544 02:18:33,320 --> 02:18:35,280 I have that here. 2545 02:18:35,280 --> 02:18:37,640 There it is. 2546 02:18:37,640 --> 02:18:41,720 This podcast with Camila Russo. 2547 02:18:41,720 --> 02:18:43,760 In 2019. 2548 02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:46,760 Camila, Camila Russo. 2549 02:18:46,760 --> 02:18:52,400 So it's about 10 minutes. 2550 02:18:52,400 --> 02:18:57,080 What you are, what products, what games you're building now? 2551 02:18:57,080 --> 02:19:02,480 Well, I mean, I think, you know, obviously sandbox continues to be a key strategic initiative, 2552 02:19:02,480 --> 02:19:08,320 but otherwise, you know, that was only three months ago. 2553 02:19:08,320 --> 02:19:15,800 So for for yet to sandbox and continues to be a key strategic initiative. 2554 02:19:15,800 --> 02:19:19,120 So that that's one of the things that Cyril is alluding to. 2555 02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:23,680 And then the utter support that Seb has given and Arthur, both co-founders of the sandbox 2556 02:19:23,680 --> 02:19:25,760 to make it a reality of what it is today. 2557 02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:26,760 That's to be understand. 2558 02:19:26,760 --> 02:19:29,200 Nobody asked that to, but they're here. 2559 02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:32,240 What can we say about compensation? 2560 02:19:32,240 --> 02:19:34,800 That is a concern for some people in the community. 2561 02:19:34,800 --> 02:19:38,360 I have a much different viewpoint on on compensation being unfair. 2562 02:19:38,360 --> 02:19:42,160 I don't think it's unfair at all, especially when you look at special counsels and other 2563 02:19:42,160 --> 02:19:44,320 DALs. 2564 02:19:44,320 --> 02:19:48,600 Some of the other DALs are being paid way more than one hundred twenty five thousand 2565 02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:49,600 sand. 2566 02:19:49,600 --> 02:19:54,120 Oh, and I meant to do that calculation for people to see like eight point DAL is being 2567 02:19:54,120 --> 02:19:58,480 paid one hundred twenty five thousand U.S. dollars. 2568 02:19:58,480 --> 02:20:01,760 So I'll do that conversion here while they're talking. 2569 02:20:01,760 --> 02:20:07,600 I think compensation is always questioned with regards to perceived value. 2570 02:20:07,600 --> 02:20:11,640 I completely agree with Cyril's viewpoint here on perceived value. 2571 02:20:11,640 --> 02:20:15,520 Everybody's like, oh, you're getting too much to pay too much for this particular job versus 2572 02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:18,200 I'm not being paid enough with regards to the value I'm bringing to the table. 2573 02:20:18,200 --> 02:20:20,640 It's always a matter of perceived value. 2574 02:20:20,640 --> 02:20:24,000 The council is being has a salary. 2575 02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:26,560 But they bring a lot to the table as well. 2576 02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:29,280 It's not perceived value like these people, they're not paid on the number of tweets they 2577 02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:30,280 send. 2578 02:20:30,280 --> 02:20:31,280 They're not like ambassadors or such. 2579 02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:34,760 They paid by their thought process, the connections they bring to the table, the fact that they're 2580 02:20:34,760 --> 02:20:35,760 thinking. 2581 02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:38,960 I mean, if these guys are so successful in day to day lives and in their own personal 2582 02:20:38,960 --> 02:20:42,000 endeavors, that's because they know stuff or they see stuff that nobody else sees. 2583 02:20:42,000 --> 02:20:44,120 This has a lot of values. 2584 02:20:44,120 --> 02:20:47,360 And I guarantee that the conversation I'm having with some of them are sometimes very 2585 02:20:47,360 --> 02:20:48,920 lengthy and very deep. 2586 02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:49,920 And they give us the time. 2587 02:20:49,920 --> 02:20:52,960 They really take the time to be there for the DAL and really think about stuff and make 2588 02:20:52,960 --> 02:20:55,520 introduction or help or whatever they can bring to the table. 2589 02:20:55,520 --> 02:20:58,760 They're just not measured in the interacting with the community or sending tweets or being 2590 02:20:58,760 --> 02:20:59,760 present on the forum. 2591 02:20:59,760 --> 02:21:01,320 That's just not who they are. 2592 02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:05,120 And that's frankly not why they've been chosen, but they bring a lot of value to the table. 2593 02:21:05,120 --> 02:21:09,160 Then if you judge the number on pure absolute value, look at other DAL and look at, for 2594 02:21:09,160 --> 02:21:12,160 example, how much people were paid at the beginning of Apecoin DAL. 2595 02:21:12,160 --> 02:21:13,160 And you would see that they actually... 2596 02:21:13,160 --> 02:21:21,200 Apecoin DAL, people were paid $20,000 a month, a month, $20,000. 2597 02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:28,800 It was later reduced down in a later AIP, I think a year ago, down to $9,000. 2598 02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:34,640 So a little bit over 50% pay cut, but they were paid at Apecoin DAL, right? 2599 02:21:34,640 --> 02:21:37,080 Special counsel. 2600 02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:38,680 And that was basically... 2601 02:21:38,680 --> 02:21:46,040 The story goes that the original special counsel was StarLade, like the co-founder of Reddit, 2602 02:21:46,040 --> 02:21:48,960 the Yatsu and Emoco brands. 2603 02:21:48,960 --> 02:21:51,540 So Star Studded, just like ours is right now. 2604 02:21:51,540 --> 02:21:56,000 And so it warranted a high salary. 2605 02:21:56,000 --> 02:21:59,520 But then the elections started happening, the re-elections, and then community members 2606 02:21:59,520 --> 02:22:00,520 started getting in. 2607 02:22:00,520 --> 02:22:04,880 And so then community members who were not captains of industry in the same way that 2608 02:22:04,880 --> 02:22:13,240 Yatsu is, now were being paid $20,000 a month, which is what? 2609 02:22:13,240 --> 02:22:14,240 $250,000? 2610 02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:16,240 $240,000 a year, right? 2611 02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:20,640 So the original was $250,000. 2612 02:22:20,640 --> 02:22:28,680 So $250,000 in sand is $593,000 sand. 2613 02:22:28,680 --> 02:22:32,000 All right, that's the conversion. 2614 02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:35,500 So that was in 2022, I think. 2615 02:22:35,500 --> 02:22:47,220 And then Apecoin DAL special counsel in 2024 is now $125,000 per year. 2616 02:22:47,220 --> 02:22:50,200 So what is that? 2617 02:22:50,200 --> 02:22:52,600 $296,000 sand. 2618 02:22:52,600 --> 02:22:56,760 So this is what he's talking about when he says that special counsels elsewhere are being 2619 02:22:56,760 --> 02:23:01,600 paid much, much more than $125,000 sand. 2620 02:23:01,600 --> 02:23:05,480 $125,000 sand is $52,000. 2621 02:23:05,480 --> 02:23:06,480 That's fair. 2622 02:23:06,480 --> 02:23:07,480 That's a fair amount. 2623 02:23:07,480 --> 02:23:11,080 That's, that's a good amount. 2624 02:23:11,080 --> 02:23:14,160 Is it a livable wage? 2625 02:23:14,160 --> 02:23:15,160 Somewhat, are you not? 2626 02:23:15,160 --> 02:23:17,120 Depend on what country you live in. 2627 02:23:17,120 --> 02:23:21,040 It could be for sure. 2628 02:23:21,040 --> 02:23:32,120 But sandbox is being paid $52,000 compared to Apecoin DAL's $296,000 sand, which is $125,000. 2629 02:23:32,120 --> 02:23:33,120 Right? 2630 02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:35,720 So that's a big difference. 2631 02:23:35,720 --> 02:23:37,960 It's a big difference. 2632 02:23:37,960 --> 02:23:44,840 That's like Apecoin DAL special counsel right now are being paid twice the amount that the 2633 02:23:44,840 --> 02:23:47,800 sandbox special counsel is. 2634 02:23:47,800 --> 02:23:50,360 So there you go. 2635 02:23:50,360 --> 02:23:54,640 The salary that I've been presented here are fairly reasonable. 2636 02:23:54,640 --> 02:23:55,640 I agree. 2637 02:23:55,640 --> 02:23:57,240 And yeah, that's all I have to say about this really. 2638 02:23:57,240 --> 02:23:59,400 It's always about what's your worth. 2639 02:23:59,400 --> 02:24:03,760 And everybody can judge what somebody's worth, but actually, you know, people are worth, 2640 02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:05,800 I think, definitely the money we're paying them. 2641 02:24:05,800 --> 02:24:06,920 I agree. 2642 02:24:06,920 --> 02:24:12,080 You have some major key figures right now in the special counsel. 2643 02:24:12,080 --> 02:24:19,680 I mean, one of them is chairman of the board of a company that owns 500 other companies, 2644 02:24:19,680 --> 02:24:22,920 Anamoga Brands. 2645 02:24:22,920 --> 02:24:27,720 And you're, we're paying them $50,000 to be on a board. 2646 02:24:27,720 --> 02:24:31,280 That's where he's talking about perceived value. 2647 02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:34,200 More than enough said, in my opinion, anybody that's got any more comments, questions, concerns 2648 02:24:34,200 --> 02:24:37,680 really about anything we're discussing, drop the comments on the video here, or, you know, 2649 02:24:37,680 --> 02:24:38,680 you know, where to find us elsewhere. 2650 02:24:38,680 --> 02:24:40,800 We've got a few more topics to get through. 2651 02:24:40,800 --> 02:24:44,520 Staking like, can let's expand on just what the staking concerns were that were raised 2652 02:24:44,520 --> 02:24:45,880 in the poll and how they're being addressed. 2653 02:24:45,880 --> 02:24:50,320 One of them is like not voting with sand that is staked and just how that's behind the scenes 2654 02:24:50,320 --> 02:24:51,320 now. 2655 02:24:51,320 --> 02:24:54,720 It was a conscious design decision not to include staking from the get go. 2656 02:24:54,720 --> 02:24:59,600 Can you think of I can understand the the anger behind this one. 2657 02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:01,240 I never really, it never really bothered me. 2658 02:25:01,240 --> 02:25:06,000 I do stake sand, but it never really bothered me in the same way. 2659 02:25:06,000 --> 02:25:11,720 Even though, you know, my voting power is definitely going to be helped by that happening. 2660 02:25:11,720 --> 02:25:13,840 But yeah, okay. 2661 02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:19,360 I mean, they're a bigger fish to fry than than staking sand as voting power. 2662 02:25:19,360 --> 02:25:24,660 But okay, alluded to that on one of the answers I've made on the phone. 2663 02:25:24,660 --> 02:25:27,400 You want to go with the lower hanging fruit first. 2664 02:25:27,400 --> 02:25:28,400 You want to go with the quick win. 2665 02:25:28,400 --> 02:25:31,440 Like what's the cheapest, most effective, most impactful thing I can do first. 2666 02:25:31,440 --> 02:25:32,440 Staking was not one of them. 2667 02:25:32,440 --> 02:25:35,000 But I get the frustration because some of our community members had a lot of sand being 2668 02:25:35,000 --> 02:25:38,160 stacked and they were hoping to get a better voting power judging by the amount that I've 2669 02:25:38,160 --> 02:25:39,160 staked. 2670 02:25:39,160 --> 02:25:41,760 Staked, not stacked, staked. 2671 02:25:41,760 --> 02:25:42,760 And they were disappointed by this. 2672 02:25:42,760 --> 02:25:43,760 I get it. 2673 02:25:43,760 --> 02:25:44,760 100%. 2674 02:25:44,760 --> 02:25:46,520 And this is why now the team is studying, you know, how to bring it back. 2675 02:25:46,520 --> 02:25:47,880 I can tell you it's not easy. 2676 02:25:47,880 --> 02:25:48,880 It's definitely not easy. 2677 02:25:48,880 --> 02:25:52,680 Then this is something now it's time for us to look at and see how we can make it happen. 2678 02:25:52,680 --> 02:25:55,200 And it wasn't the time, it wasn't the right time to do it at the beginning of this step. 2679 02:25:55,200 --> 02:25:56,800 And it was really, like I said, a conscious decision. 2680 02:25:56,800 --> 02:25:58,700 But we've listened to the community. 2681 02:25:58,700 --> 02:26:02,720 And to be honest, this is also a tough one because we've listened to the community complain 2682 02:26:02,720 --> 02:26:04,280 about staking now being included. 2683 02:26:04,280 --> 02:26:05,920 But there was also some people that said, why should be included? 2684 02:26:05,920 --> 02:26:06,920 I'm an American. 2685 02:26:06,920 --> 02:26:07,920 I'm not allowed to use staking. 2686 02:26:07,920 --> 02:26:08,920 Why should I? 2687 02:26:08,920 --> 02:26:09,920 That's a fair point. 2688 02:26:09,920 --> 02:26:14,240 You know, doubly have twice the pain because now I can't even stake for myself and get 2689 02:26:14,240 --> 02:26:15,240 rewards. 2690 02:26:15,240 --> 02:26:17,240 And now I don't even get the voting power boost that everybody else is going to get. 2691 02:26:17,240 --> 02:26:18,480 So that's a bummer. 2692 02:26:18,480 --> 02:26:22,880 And these guys, they came to me when I was in NFC Lisbon, we announced the DAO. 2693 02:26:22,880 --> 02:26:25,160 I've been there for a couple of days and talked to as many people as I can. 2694 02:26:25,160 --> 02:26:28,480 There was a lot of American people and they took the opportunity to raise that concerns. 2695 02:26:28,480 --> 02:26:29,480 And that's the feedback I've got. 2696 02:26:29,480 --> 02:26:32,720 Obviously, it was a few people, but it's direct feedback that people spontaneously gave me. 2697 02:26:32,720 --> 02:26:34,080 So I had to take this into account as well. 2698 02:26:34,080 --> 02:26:37,320 And that's why I confronted my decision that, OK, it was maybe not the right time. 2699 02:26:37,320 --> 02:26:40,120 And we need to think more deeply about staking, whether it's a good or bad idea. 2700 02:26:40,120 --> 02:26:43,640 And now looking back at this, and now that the DAO is more up and running and then standing 2701 02:26:43,640 --> 02:26:46,680 on its two legs and stuff, we do have a little bit more time to look after this and really 2702 02:26:46,680 --> 02:26:48,800 ask ourselves whether stacking is a good idea. 2703 02:26:48,800 --> 02:26:49,800 And we believe it is. 2704 02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:50,800 But now let's make it happen. 2705 02:26:50,800 --> 02:26:52,600 And it's not that easy, but we're working towards making it happen together with the 2706 02:26:52,600 --> 02:26:53,600 sandbox, to be honest. 2707 02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:55,920 And the admin team is not the only one equipped to deal with this. 2708 02:26:55,920 --> 02:26:59,280 And the sandbox is helping us understanding how the current staking protocol works on 2709 02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:02,680 the sandbox and how to make it work and including it into our voting power. 2710 02:27:02,680 --> 02:27:03,680 Yeah, excellent. 2711 02:27:03,680 --> 02:27:05,240 These are really such important conversations. 2712 02:27:05,240 --> 02:27:07,960 Yeah, I had no comments here. 2713 02:27:07,960 --> 02:27:11,320 I agree, understood, makes sense, acknowledged. 2714 02:27:11,320 --> 02:27:13,320 Conversations on just building that trust. 2715 02:27:13,320 --> 02:27:15,680 So man, everything here deserves the time that it's got to get. 2716 02:27:15,680 --> 02:27:17,640 We've got a few bullet points to get through here that I don't think we're just going 2717 02:27:17,640 --> 02:27:18,880 to have the time to get through. 2718 02:27:18,880 --> 02:27:21,720 And I don't want everybody out there listening to feel like this is rushed. 2719 02:27:21,720 --> 02:27:24,120 So why don't you and I just meet and we're going to have to tackle some of these in the 2720 02:27:24,120 --> 02:27:26,840 weeks ahead and dive a little deeper into them. 2721 02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:27,840 How the DAO is operating. 2722 02:27:27,840 --> 02:27:29,760 I can address them some pretty quick here too. 2723 02:27:29,760 --> 02:27:31,720 I mean, DAO operating in a gray area, a landscape. 2724 02:27:31,720 --> 02:27:34,640 Gosh, I mean, there's so much to unpack and just that sentiment that was shared in the 2725 02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:35,640 poll. 2726 02:27:35,640 --> 02:27:37,280 But we've got to talk more about that. 2727 02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:40,000 We have already kind of embedded in the other topics, the language barrier. 2728 02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:42,400 The website is currently in seven languages. 2729 02:27:42,400 --> 02:27:45,920 This poll we looked at before, we've got to figure out a little bit more what some of 2730 02:27:45,920 --> 02:27:49,400 those Asian languages are that we can reach new community members with. 2731 02:27:49,400 --> 02:27:51,960 So if you're listening to this and there is a language barrier, just tell us your native 2732 02:27:51,960 --> 02:27:55,760 country, what language you speak, how we can be translating more of the material we're 2733 02:27:55,760 --> 02:27:56,760 putting out. 2734 02:27:56,760 --> 02:27:59,800 Because the goal is to get these, even these podcasts, we can have the transcripts at least, 2735 02:27:59,800 --> 02:28:03,560 if not the captions and the languages that are most important for our community. 2736 02:28:03,560 --> 02:28:06,440 And if there's other languages that need the translation, maybe we can even get somebody 2737 02:28:06,440 --> 02:28:07,440 translating it. 2738 02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:10,200 I bet you, I just thought this on the wind, but I bet you there's an AI tool that does 2739 02:28:10,200 --> 02:28:13,360 this sign language, has an AI sign language bot that we can put onto videos too. 2740 02:28:13,360 --> 02:28:14,360 There is. 2741 02:28:14,360 --> 02:28:16,440 Accessibility is a really important topic for universally. 2742 02:28:16,440 --> 02:28:18,040 So it has to be important here. 2743 02:28:18,040 --> 02:28:20,080 So participation is the next bullet here. 2744 02:28:20,080 --> 02:28:22,600 I mean, that's anybody who's listening to this, that's part of your responsibility 2745 02:28:22,600 --> 02:28:24,800 too, not just ours, is to get more people participating, right? 2746 02:28:24,800 --> 02:28:27,480 So whether I agree, I agree with Kuntu on this. 2747 02:28:27,480 --> 02:28:32,200 That means delegating your voting power, getting more people you know who hold, stand and land. 2748 02:28:32,200 --> 02:28:35,540 That's what I was talking about earlier, where I want to tackle that problem. 2749 02:28:35,540 --> 02:28:37,000 I want to be that in the podcast. 2750 02:28:37,000 --> 02:28:42,840 I want to encourage that sort of inner dialogue within the SanFam community itself. 2751 02:28:42,840 --> 02:28:47,240 Whereas Kuntu can only take that so far as being the communications manager for the DAO 2752 02:28:47,240 --> 02:28:48,240 admin team. 2753 02:28:48,240 --> 02:28:54,240 His role is to ensure that the DAO admin team is communicating and do what he can to facilitate 2754 02:28:54,240 --> 02:28:55,240 communication. 2755 02:28:55,240 --> 02:28:58,040 But it's not really his role. 2756 02:28:58,040 --> 02:29:02,580 And I would not expect him to make that the focus of his job. 2757 02:29:02,580 --> 02:29:06,360 I would expect that of me as a community member and others as community members. 2758 02:29:06,360 --> 02:29:08,520 To get active, whatever it is, let's all do it. 2759 02:29:08,520 --> 02:29:09,520 We're in this together. 2760 02:29:09,520 --> 02:29:11,200 Everybody just wants money is the bottom bullet point. 2761 02:29:11,200 --> 02:29:15,240 I mean, I mean, sure, sure, true. 2762 02:29:15,240 --> 02:29:18,960 But also, I mean, that's that's everywhere. 2763 02:29:18,960 --> 02:29:21,040 I think we're both laughing because everybody wants money. 2764 02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:22,040 And I agree. 2765 02:29:22,040 --> 02:29:25,400 It's just, you know, balancing that and striking the right balance between needs and greeds 2766 02:29:25,400 --> 02:29:27,120 and building a community that we can all work with. 2767 02:29:27,120 --> 02:29:29,120 So we're going to talk about that too in the future here. 2768 02:29:29,120 --> 02:29:30,920 So we got a few questions from the community. 2769 02:29:30,920 --> 02:29:32,560 We can just hit them really quick here. 2770 02:29:32,560 --> 02:29:34,480 What benefit does this DAO get? 2771 02:29:34,480 --> 02:29:37,200 I'll get by going to a SIP invite only system. 2772 02:29:37,200 --> 02:29:39,840 Cyril, you had a quick response to that. 2773 02:29:39,840 --> 02:29:40,840 I can't tell. 2774 02:29:40,840 --> 02:29:42,160 But this might have been one of mine. 2775 02:29:42,160 --> 02:29:50,680 One of my questions, because I also responded in the poll. 2776 02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:51,680 Sounds like it might have been. 2777 02:29:51,680 --> 02:29:52,680 I'm not sure. 2778 02:29:52,680 --> 02:29:53,680 Maybe. 2779 02:29:53,680 --> 02:30:00,440 I think it would back to what we discussed about the the C process itself. 2780 02:30:00,440 --> 02:30:01,440 SIP invite only. 2781 02:30:01,440 --> 02:30:05,120 Like I said, creation takes community resources and by community resources, I mean people 2782 02:30:05,120 --> 02:30:09,040 from the admin team being allocated into creating a particular SIP that takes money in time. 2783 02:30:09,040 --> 02:30:11,520 So not everything deserves to be curated, unfortunately. 2784 02:30:11,520 --> 02:30:15,040 And that's why we have this little filter where only the stuff that we judge as human 2785 02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:18,320 being, right, not robot, not machine, not algorithm, as human being, also looking at 2786 02:30:18,320 --> 02:30:22,360 community reactions and how people like the idea or not. 2787 02:30:22,360 --> 02:30:24,640 This is how idea gets picked up to start this creation process. 2788 02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:27,600 And that's why for now it's still by invite only. 2789 02:30:27,600 --> 02:30:30,280 I like that he said for now. 2790 02:30:30,280 --> 02:30:39,920 That to me, assuaged my fear, my resentment that I had, because I had many more SIPs. 2791 02:30:39,920 --> 02:30:45,640 Like I have 18 different SIPs that I have planned out with my team in MetaWorlds. 2792 02:30:45,640 --> 02:30:48,400 Different stuff, different problems we want to tackle, different things that we've seen 2793 02:30:48,400 --> 02:30:49,400 over the years. 2794 02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:53,560 They're all different points of view. 2795 02:30:53,560 --> 02:31:00,040 And it saddens me to think that I have to wait an unknown amount of time to be invited 2796 02:31:00,040 --> 02:31:01,520 to give a SIP. 2797 02:31:01,520 --> 02:31:04,360 Now Kunja is about to say something about the semantics of it. 2798 02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:09,360 I do not agree with him on this one, because anyone could always put something out on the 2799 02:31:09,360 --> 02:31:10,360 ideas forum. 2800 02:31:10,360 --> 02:31:14,080 Like I said, I put out 10 already in the ideas sub forum. 2801 02:31:14,080 --> 02:31:15,720 You could always do that. 2802 02:31:15,720 --> 02:31:22,560 But you could always up until the new process, you could always submit your SIP to the team, 2803 02:31:22,560 --> 02:31:27,080 the DAO admin team, to undergo the voting process, to get reviewed and then go to the 2804 02:31:27,080 --> 02:31:29,080 council and then put a voting. 2805 02:31:29,080 --> 02:31:36,960 This new process, as of October 2024, removes that openness and is now invite only. 2806 02:31:36,960 --> 02:31:43,320 You cannot submit a SIP to the DAO admin team without them inviting you to submit it to 2807 02:31:43,320 --> 02:31:45,720 the forums as a SIP idea. 2808 02:31:45,720 --> 02:31:46,720 You could always do that. 2809 02:31:46,720 --> 02:31:48,880 That was always the case. 2810 02:31:48,880 --> 02:31:54,000 Now it's mandatory you do it and you can't proceed past that until you're invited. 2811 02:31:54,000 --> 02:31:57,920 Yeah, I mean, that's also kind of semantics that might be a bit inaccurate. 2812 02:31:57,920 --> 02:31:58,920 It's not really invite only. 2813 02:31:58,920 --> 02:31:59,920 Anybody can propose a SIP. 2814 02:31:59,920 --> 02:32:03,200 It's just that only some are then selected for curation. 2815 02:32:03,200 --> 02:32:05,240 That to me is a semantics. 2816 02:32:05,240 --> 02:32:10,040 Anyone can propose a SIP, but not all of you are going to get there. 2817 02:32:10,040 --> 02:32:12,160 Not all of you to be considered. 2818 02:32:12,160 --> 02:32:13,500 That was different. 2819 02:32:13,500 --> 02:32:21,480 That's the change from May of 2024 SIP process to October 2024 SIP process from a open system 2820 02:32:21,480 --> 02:32:23,800 to a invite only system. 2821 02:32:23,800 --> 02:32:31,760 So invite only semantics, okay, maybe, but it's not untrue to say that you cannot proceed 2822 02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:39,000 through that process in October 2024 in the same open way that you could back in May. 2823 02:32:39,000 --> 02:32:43,420 It's different, but I like that Cyril said it's different for now. 2824 02:32:43,420 --> 02:32:49,520 That gives me hope and it gives me the assurance that they're looking at this to see if it's 2825 02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:50,520 going to work or not. 2826 02:32:50,520 --> 02:32:55,080 Does this improve on the goals that they're trying to reach for the semantics down? 2827 02:32:55,080 --> 02:32:58,320 Okay, I get that. 2828 02:32:58,320 --> 02:33:04,200 I really, really hope it really is for now, but maybe in the end I won't have a problem 2829 02:33:04,200 --> 02:33:05,200 with it. 2830 02:33:05,200 --> 02:33:08,600 It's this way for now. 2831 02:33:08,600 --> 02:33:09,600 The advanced version. 2832 02:33:09,600 --> 02:33:13,440 It might not be how other DAOs are doing it, but hopefully people can appreciate the opportunity 2833 02:33:13,440 --> 02:33:15,040 that's in front of us all. 2834 02:33:15,040 --> 02:33:16,040 And I do. 2835 02:33:16,040 --> 02:33:17,040 Now, I think you and I agree on that. 2836 02:33:17,040 --> 02:33:19,160 I can appreciate the opportunity. 2837 02:33:19,160 --> 02:33:22,480 The other one, is it possible for SANFAM to listen in on advisory board and special council 2838 02:33:22,480 --> 02:33:24,000 meetings if and when they're held? 2839 02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:25,720 I think the simple answer is yes. 2840 02:33:25,720 --> 02:33:27,240 This one might have been my question too. 2841 02:33:27,240 --> 02:33:28,600 Again, I can't tell. 2842 02:33:28,600 --> 02:33:31,800 I don't remember if I asked that specific question. 2843 02:33:31,800 --> 02:33:34,640 I have asked that before elsewhere. 2844 02:33:34,640 --> 02:33:40,400 So maybe this isn't just a question that he's drawing from the poll, because I have asked 2845 02:33:40,400 --> 02:33:45,000 that in the forums before and I don't think I got a response. 2846 02:33:45,000 --> 02:33:51,360 I think it was part of the DAO Medium article thread that I posted and did a podcast episode 2847 02:33:51,360 --> 02:33:53,120 too. 2848 02:33:53,120 --> 02:33:57,880 These two questions that I'm very interested in, and the answers. 2849 02:33:57,880 --> 02:34:05,120 SANFAM to listen in on advisory board and special council meetings if and when they 2850 02:34:05,120 --> 02:34:06,360 are held. 2851 02:34:06,360 --> 02:34:11,960 So something that I'm no longer quite as adamant about it right now, because I understand what 2852 02:34:11,960 --> 02:34:16,120 Cyril is saying about advisory board and special council, how he's doing these informal 2853 02:34:16,120 --> 02:34:22,280 one on ones, and they're being paid to really give that informal kind of aside. 2854 02:34:22,280 --> 02:34:23,280 And there's discretion there. 2855 02:34:23,280 --> 02:34:25,120 There's discretion about that advice. 2856 02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:31,080 However, in the future, when community members are becoming special council members, I will 2857 02:34:31,080 --> 02:34:33,600 push for open meetings. 2858 02:34:33,600 --> 02:34:35,280 I think that will be important. 2859 02:34:35,280 --> 02:34:39,120 But as of right now, based on what Cyril has revealed. 2860 02:34:39,120 --> 02:34:40,440 Okay. 2861 02:34:40,440 --> 02:34:42,720 I think I think it can make sense. 2862 02:34:42,720 --> 02:34:48,240 I just think that, you know, I'll reserve to the very end till they're done talking 2863 02:34:48,240 --> 02:34:49,240 about it. 2864 02:34:49,240 --> 02:34:51,880 There's really just no because they're not, they're not times they're, you know, trying 2865 02:34:51,880 --> 02:34:54,880 to find the five or 10 minutes that people have when they're on the go here. 2866 02:34:54,880 --> 02:34:56,840 And that makes sense. 2867 02:34:56,840 --> 02:34:57,840 That makes sense. 2868 02:34:57,840 --> 02:34:59,520 They're on the go. 2869 02:34:59,520 --> 02:35:03,080 They're discrete topics sometimes like sensitivity. 2870 02:35:03,080 --> 02:35:07,000 It requires a little bit of where people need to feel open to talk. 2871 02:35:07,000 --> 02:35:09,720 Whereas in a recorded session, maybe they won't. 2872 02:35:09,720 --> 02:35:12,280 Okay, makes sense. 2873 02:35:12,280 --> 02:35:18,640 And they're not being paid to necessarily be the most out in front person of the Dow. 2874 02:35:18,640 --> 02:35:21,640 Like I thought, and like the rest of the community thought they were. 2875 02:35:21,640 --> 02:35:24,080 We definitely thought that that's what they were being paid to do. 2876 02:35:24,080 --> 02:35:26,440 For there to connect over some discrete topics. 2877 02:35:26,440 --> 02:35:28,360 And so just no is the quick. 2878 02:35:28,360 --> 02:35:29,360 No is the short answer. 2879 02:35:29,360 --> 02:35:31,720 And I would add to that that we don't have a board, right? 2880 02:35:31,720 --> 02:35:33,880 These are not board meeting because the Dow is not a company. 2881 02:35:33,880 --> 02:35:37,640 And having board meeting implies having leadership that is eventually accountable. 2882 02:35:37,640 --> 02:35:39,520 And that's not the case in this this Dow. 2883 02:35:39,520 --> 02:35:44,840 I don't know what zero means by that because as I learned that the Dow Foundation is a 2884 02:35:44,840 --> 02:35:47,880 company, it's a foundation company in the Cayman Islands. 2885 02:35:47,880 --> 02:35:49,700 It does have board meetings. 2886 02:35:49,700 --> 02:35:52,720 So I'm confused about what he means here. 2887 02:35:52,720 --> 02:35:59,800 And so I'd like to ask because earlier in this, he does mention that he that the Dow 2888 02:35:59,800 --> 02:36:01,320 has a legal wrapper. 2889 02:36:01,320 --> 02:36:03,560 So I'm wondering what the difference is. 2890 02:36:03,560 --> 02:36:06,400 I don't think I fully understand this. 2891 02:36:06,400 --> 02:36:09,120 So there's no formal meeting that the community could listen to. 2892 02:36:09,120 --> 02:36:13,080 Like I said, there's a more informal conversation about future of the Dow, what three news, 2893 02:36:13,080 --> 02:36:15,640 what can we do better, what these guys have learned and sometimes questions about the 2894 02:36:15,640 --> 02:36:16,640 city itself. 2895 02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:18,640 But I know like actual board meeting happening. 2896 02:36:18,640 --> 02:36:20,120 I think there you go. 2897 02:36:20,120 --> 02:36:22,200 So quick answer is just kind of now. 2898 02:36:22,200 --> 02:36:26,000 Well, gift cards sold at box retail stores to load sand into accounts. 2899 02:36:26,000 --> 02:36:27,160 I thought that was an awesome question. 2900 02:36:27,160 --> 02:36:29,760 Like we're thinking like, you know, big game style. 2901 02:36:29,760 --> 02:36:32,480 And the answer there is hopefully like one day, let's all just keep building here. 2902 02:36:32,480 --> 02:36:34,280 That's certainly not next week, though. 2903 02:36:34,280 --> 02:36:35,280 Yeah. 2904 02:36:35,280 --> 02:36:36,280 All right. 2905 02:36:36,280 --> 02:36:37,680 So look, I mean, you know, it's to be continued. 2906 02:36:37,680 --> 02:36:41,400 You know, dot dot dot kind of like any good cliffhanger, not even in just one episode. 2907 02:36:41,400 --> 02:36:44,440 This is like a to be continued, like in perpetuity, because we're going to keep building with 2908 02:36:44,440 --> 02:36:45,440 you. 2909 02:36:45,440 --> 02:36:46,440 So that's it. 2910 02:36:46,440 --> 02:36:47,440 I mean, it's basically a wrap for episode one. 2911 02:36:47,440 --> 02:36:48,960 Thank you so much for joining us, Cheryl. 2912 02:36:48,960 --> 02:36:50,680 This is awesome to have you back. 2913 02:36:50,680 --> 02:36:54,040 Have more of that special council and advisory board that we talked about other stakeholders, 2914 02:36:54,040 --> 02:36:55,920 even community members up here and join in on the conversation. 2915 02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:59,120 So if we didn't address the topic that you want to hear more about that form, it's fielding 2916 02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:01,760 questions that we only got those last three from that will remain open. 2917 02:37:01,760 --> 02:37:03,560 I'll share that link here on the screen. 2918 02:37:03,560 --> 02:37:06,920 A few of the most important topics that I'm going to address in the next few months are, 2919 02:37:06,920 --> 02:37:09,920 you know, repairing these relationships with the community that still want to be involved, 2920 02:37:09,920 --> 02:37:13,120 providing as much as providing as much transparency as we can. 2921 02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:16,760 So what we're doing, you know, how we're doing it and why working as closely as possible 2922 02:37:16,760 --> 02:37:19,440 with community members won't help with what we see as one of the most important challenges 2923 02:37:19,440 --> 02:37:22,520 facing the doubt, which is attracting new participants so we can reach forum and just 2924 02:37:22,520 --> 02:37:23,520 keep building here. 2925 02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:24,520 So bring your friends. 2926 02:37:24,520 --> 02:37:25,520 Let's do this. 2927 02:37:25,520 --> 02:37:26,520 Keep doing it. 2928 02:37:26,520 --> 02:37:27,680 Subscribe to YouTube, drop some comments, share this with a friend, follow the exit 2929 02:37:27,680 --> 02:37:30,680 count, engage it, share some of our posts. 2930 02:37:30,680 --> 02:37:31,680 And that's it. 2931 02:37:31,680 --> 02:37:32,680 Enjoy Alpha season four. 2932 02:37:32,680 --> 02:37:33,680 Stay in touch with us. 2933 02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:34,680 Any any final thoughts? 2934 02:37:34,680 --> 02:37:35,680 You got a few seconds, Cheryl. 2935 02:37:35,680 --> 02:37:36,680 Keep playing the sandbox. 2936 02:37:36,680 --> 02:37:37,680 That's it. 2937 02:37:37,680 --> 02:37:38,680 Love y'all. 2938 02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:39,680 Sam, Sam. 2939 02:37:39,680 --> 02:37:40,680 I'll be content. 2940 02:37:40,680 --> 02:37:41,680 Ciao guys. 2941 02:37:41,680 --> 02:37:49,960 We've been going for three hours, so I'm not going to do the normal out and about, but 2942 02:37:49,960 --> 02:37:53,080 my only thoughts left were Bravo. 2943 02:37:53,080 --> 02:37:54,920 Bravo. 2944 02:37:54,920 --> 02:37:59,320 This was this was the episode I needed to hear. 2945 02:37:59,320 --> 02:38:07,920 For my mistrust, my resentment to get past my anger, all the fear about who's running 2946 02:38:07,920 --> 02:38:11,640 the Dow and do they have their best intentions at heart. 2947 02:38:11,640 --> 02:38:14,560 This was the episode I needed to hear for that. 2948 02:38:14,560 --> 02:38:17,800 So I consider it behind me now. 2949 02:38:17,800 --> 02:38:21,640 I'm looking forward to what we're building together. 2950 02:38:21,640 --> 02:38:31,280 Sam Fam, Dow, admin team, sandbox team, and I now feel more comfortable bringing in outside 2951 02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:36,520 business interests to help support my SIPs to make them successful. 2952 02:38:36,520 --> 02:38:43,200 And I feel way more certain and confident about those business relationships, the things 2953 02:38:43,200 --> 02:38:48,720 that are going to be necessary for some of these SIPs to succeed, at least for me. 2954 02:38:48,720 --> 02:38:56,560 And that's a powerful thing, because some of these business relationships are very powerful. 2955 02:38:56,560 --> 02:38:57,560 And they're important. 2956 02:38:57,560 --> 02:39:03,920 They bring experts to the table, which would not be available to us in Web3 had we not 2957 02:39:03,920 --> 02:39:06,280 made these disclosures. 2958 02:39:06,280 --> 02:39:11,880 And I can disclose to them now what sort of the intent is behind some of this stuff. 2959 02:39:11,880 --> 02:39:16,080 And so they don't really feel like they're under the gun of regulation or like they're 2960 02:39:16,080 --> 02:39:21,360 just waiting for an axe to fall on them because they're involved now in Web3 and they have 2961 02:39:21,360 --> 02:39:24,400 to for their business development or whatever. 2962 02:39:24,400 --> 02:39:30,600 We can now assuage those fears and help onboard them at a much faster pace and with more confidence 2963 02:39:30,600 --> 02:39:32,440 that their risk is being mitigated appropriately. 2964 02:39:32,440 --> 02:39:37,360 I'm talking very program manager like, talking very entrepreneurial and business like, but 2965 02:39:37,360 --> 02:39:39,480 that's what goes down here. 2966 02:39:39,480 --> 02:39:44,240 And when you have a Dow that where the business, the gaming, the community and leadership all 2967 02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:49,920 intersect together, if you want to be playing in that sort of field as a Dow, you've got 2968 02:39:49,920 --> 02:39:58,320 to you've got to come at it in a way that can facilitate others' contributions. 2969 02:39:58,320 --> 02:40:00,000 So I'm looking forward to it. 2970 02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:01,600 I think this is the right move. 2971 02:40:01,600 --> 02:40:05,960 Thank you for for doing this zero and Kunta and look forward to the many others. 2972 02:40:05,960 --> 02:40:08,240 So that'll do it for today. 2973 02:40:08,240 --> 02:40:18,280 Today's podcast was a reaction video to Sandel podcast official episode one with Cyril and 2974 02:40:18,280 --> 02:40:23,480 and Kunta focusing on the transparency piece that alleviated much of my concerns, my fear, 2975 02:40:23,480 --> 02:40:28,120 my anger, my resentment that had been building since May 28th when the Dow was announced 2976 02:40:28,120 --> 02:40:34,360 and we didn't get the the reaction, the explanation, the rationale and the transparency that we 2977 02:40:34,360 --> 02:40:35,800 were expecting. 2978 02:40:35,800 --> 02:40:41,440 Let's turn that around and I no longer feel the same way I did before listening to it. 2979 02:40:41,440 --> 02:40:43,040 Thank you, Kunta and Cyril. 2980 02:40:43,040 --> 02:40:46,360 Thank you so much for for being vulnerable, for being open. 2981 02:40:46,360 --> 02:40:48,960 And I really encourage you to keep doing that. 2982 02:40:48,960 --> 02:40:52,600 And I think it will pay dividends back to the Dow. 2983 02:40:52,600 --> 02:40:54,000 All right, Sam fam. 2984 02:40:54,000 --> 02:41:19,280 Bye.