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Alright, here we are.

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Sandow Podcast number 30.

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Oh, this one is a big one.

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This is one that I have been waiting for for a while.

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I actually started this as originally going to be Sandow Podcast number five, end up being

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34.

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So yeah, yeah, been a long time.

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Been a long time ago.

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So been a long time.

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It's taken me this long to get through everything that I needed to.

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I did a lot of interviews, other stuff like that.

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But now here I am in looking at how the Dow came to be something that's been on many people's

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minds for a long time, especially mine because I want to invest in my time, effort and energy

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into it.

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And there's a lot of things that I need to know just for myself or, you know, protection

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sake for clarity for governance, a whole bunch of reasons why.

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And finally figured it out this past week.

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There were some things that happened that kind of spawned all this to occur.

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And we'll get into that, especially for my ApeDow, ApecoinDow people.

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But today we're going to talk about the birth of the Sandbox Dow, how it came to be.

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My scope of the talk, I normally fly through it, but this time I need to spend just a little

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bit of time on it.

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So what is today about?

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Today is about the results of an analysis.

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I put in many, many hours of research and came up with a bunch of facts, a set of facts

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that help tell a story.

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All of these facts that I'm about to show you are all public.

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So I don't have any secret back channel knowledge.

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I was able to find everything I'm about to show you through a bunch of public websites,

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mostly Google, but also other things.

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What this is not is this is not an accusation against anyone or the Sandbox Dow.

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It's not a smear campaign.

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You're not going to see me say, ha, I got you.

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This isn't that type of podcast.

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This isn't that type of episode.

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What's about is being open and transparent about what in the world is going on inside

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of our Dow.

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That's what this is.

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This is a need for transparency for a lot of people for business interests.

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And when I get into another podcast later on down the road about the business of publishing

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within the Sandbox Dow, or within the Sandbox game, you'll see there are a lot of business

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interests.

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Some people had to exit recently because those business interests collided with regulatory

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things.

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There's a lot of variables at play because of what the Sandbox Dow is involved in.

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The Sandbox is involved in all of its connections, all of its businesses, all of its ecosystem.

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Right.

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That's what we're talking about.

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The ecosystem.

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Hey, Sebga, this is a good one, man.

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This is I've been waiting for this episode for a long time because it finally reveals,

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finally reveals all of the relationships that I could find by scouring the Internet.

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So it's about transparency.

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What in the world is going on inside of our Dow?

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Because up until this point, we haven't really had as much as we wanted.

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There have been so many questions that have been answered.

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And this was an attempt to clear away some of the fog.

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All right.

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Disclaimer.

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I do not represent the Sandbox game or the Sandbox Dow Foundation.

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I am not your financial or legal advisor and nothing I say is to be taken as financial

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or legal advice.

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When I say the word SIP, I mean Sandbox Improvement Proposal.

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When I say the word Dow, I mean Decentralized Autonomous Organization.

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Yes, I've got me too, man.

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I've been waiting for this for a long time, too.

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And when I say Sandfam, I mean anyone in the sandbox community who participates in the

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people, product and purpose of the sandbox ecosystem.

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What do I mean by sandbox ecosystem?

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I'm glad you asked.

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This is my newest slide that I will include now and everything because of its importance

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to the Dow and to the podcast.

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I did this back in Sandow 31, an introduction to the sandbox ecosystem.

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I'm talking about the people, the products, the purpose.

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So that's all, you know, the gamers, the makers, the artists, the owners, the holders, the

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delegates, the participants, the team and the product, you know, client, editor, maker,

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market, the Dow, and then the purpose, the state of purpose in the white paper and all

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the things that the owners have said up in this point.

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You know, Sebastian, Arthur, yeah, all of that weaves together, combines into an ecosystem.

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That ecosystem has been in operations and flourishing since 2018.

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So the scoreboard, there are no SIP drafts in the forums and there are no SIPs that are

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open for voting.

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Currently the Dow team is working hard on approving the delegation system and approving

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delegates that have applied, of which there are dozens and dozens.

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It seems like over 50, I think.

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I'm not sure.

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I don't have an exact number.

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But up until this point, we have nine SIPs that have been approved, 56%, six SIPs that

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have not been approved, 37%, and one SIP has been withdrawn.

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We have spent 15% of our 15.5 million Sand budget.

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And here's the spread of SIPs.

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SIPs one through seven were all approved.

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Eight, nine, ten did not pass because of quorum.

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Eleven, twelve did pass.

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And thirteen, fourteen, fifteen did not pass because of quorum.

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Dowbase.ai, we are still at 211,211,000 token holders.

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And I got a clarification from Dowbase.ai.

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That means both the landowners and the Sand token holders.

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So I was trying to confuse for a while.

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Does token mean just Sand?

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Does it mean land?

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It means both.

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Their aggregator, their crawler system incorporates both into 2,213 voters across 13 proposals.

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Actually, that should say 15 proposals who have casted almost 10,000 votes.

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Really good information to know.

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Introductions.

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Who am I?

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I am Lancer.

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I am an avatar holder, experience publisher, president of MetaWorlds, which has published

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floor droppers and...

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Why do I always forget the second one?

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Floor droppers and lava defense.

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Floor droppers is currently in 0-0 in Alpha Season 4.

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I cannot believe that we made it.

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Just cannot believe it.

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And I have a...

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Similar to this episode here, I have a background in contract writing and negotiations.

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I am currently a program manager of many products and projects.

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And I am a serial entrepreneur.

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So a lot of that has kind of melded together into a background of business, community.

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I've been a community organizer before.

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A gamer.

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And leadership in governance.

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Currently working on completing the Dow Expert Certificate by a blockchain council.

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It's big.

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It's a lot.

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So kind of working on that.

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Working on that on the side.

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But that's me.

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President of MetaWorlds, experience publisher, mainly business background, contract writing

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background, that sort of thing.

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That is important because the analysis.

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So as I said in the beginning, this whole episode is based on an analysis that produce

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facts that are publicly available.

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It is not a smear accusation campaign.

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It's to make transparent all the stuff that's happening in the sandbox now.

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This analysis is based on many different sources of information.

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YouTube videos, interviews, Google searches, of reading of government law and business

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regulations and registries.

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Looking at various company relationship mapping databases.

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There's many of which the main one was done in Bradstreet.

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So D&B.

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Looking at different company websites and just reading about us or reading their summaries.

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LinkedIn.

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So looking up profiles of the founders and reading their company history.

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And then reading of the sandbox foundation memo of our association, articles of association

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and sandbox style constitution.

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That is how 90% of what you're about to see comes from.

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The rest of it is incidental stuff I found on the web elsewhere, different websites,

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that sort of thing.

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So let's work out a timeline, a basic timeline of where our episode is captured between 2012

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sandbox starts as a 2D mobile game.

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Next forward to 2018, sandbox transforms into a 3D metaverse blockchain game.

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So no longer 2D, no longer mobile, now 3D on the computer and it's blockchain enabled.

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September of 2020, the sandbox issues a white paper and it lists the intent to start a DAO.

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Early 2022, the DAO planning starts about although I think it really, really starts

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in August.

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I'm sorry, excuse me, May of 2023.

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It definitely started by that point.

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And then fast forward to November of 2023, the sandbox foundation is created as a legal

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entity to represent the DAO within the jurisdiction of the Cayman Islands.

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Grand Cayman Islands is its full name.

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And then May of 2024, the sandbox DAO is officially announced and SIP voting begins.

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So here are some links I wanted to show you.

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In 2012, the sandbox starts as a 2D mobile game.

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Alright, so our first video illustrates a blockchain gamer biz back in six years ago.

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Hi, everybody.

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I'm Arthur Madrid.

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I'm the happy founder of Pixel.

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We began doing a mobile game called the sandbox in 2012.

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So there we go.

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Mobile game in the sandbox in 2012.

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2018.

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So what's next for us?

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We have been working on a sandbox 3D version.

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And we begin to think about the blockchain.

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So there you go.

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This is again, same conference six years ago in 2018, right as the sandbox was transitioning

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into its blockchain form that it is today.

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Alright, September 2020 sandbox releases a white paper.

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It looks like this.

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And the DAO is in the first paragraph.

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It talks about the DAO.

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Sandholders will also participate in the governance of the platform via decentralized autonomous

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organization, a DAO.

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So right off the bat, they're talking about.

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And then, in November 2023, the sandbox foundation is created as a legal entity.

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So you can see the seal up there in the top right and the register office will get all

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that later on and all the stuff that's required to become a legal entity.

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And then May 2024, DAO is announced via medium article.

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And this was the article.

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Okay, so that's our timeline.

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That's what we're going to be working in between.

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This is what I sent out to everyone right here.

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In fact, I'm going to make it a little bit bigger because of how important it is to follow

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along in this story.

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So this is what I sent out to everyone, kind of teased it a little bit and had a little

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bit of fun.

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I was just so excited that I was able to piece together all the relationships and I just

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couldn't I couldn't help myself.

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So this right here is is DAO relationship map that I that I formulated together.

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When you see a solid line, it means a direct relationship as in a direct report has authority

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over that sort of thing.

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If you see a dotted line, it means there's an association, maybe like a working agreement

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or something's going on there.

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Sometimes I know what's going on.

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Sometimes I don't know what's going on.

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But it's not like a formal relationship where one party reports to the other.

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Okay.

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So this is this is what we know.

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This is what we knew and what most of San Fam knew going into it.

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Right.

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So we knew about the sandbox company right here.

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We knew about the sandbox DAO Foundation.

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All right, we knew there was something going on here.

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Not exactly sure what we know that there was a DAO admin team because they call themselves

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a DAO admin team.

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Not exactly sure what entities were at play except, you know, Cyril as the DAO administrator

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and you know, Seb as the company owner, one of the company founders and in the company.

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Then we knew about the SIPs that started all off.

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There's a special council.

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There's an advisory board.

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Most people probably or some people at least knew YAT was on that board is on the special

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council board for the sandbox DAO.

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You know, we're familiar with the the the ecosystem and the that there's land and there's

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sand that there's discord that we talk on.

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There's the website and the snapshot that we vote on.

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All right.

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So there's some things that we knew going into it.

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But there is so much more to learn about.

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And that's what today's episode about is unpacking that it took me so many hours of googling

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and look sifting through data, piecing stuff together.

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I have a research document that is approaching 100 pages at this point.

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That's how much time and effort went into this thing.

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So without without I keep generally to I keep most names out.

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There's some names that are very, you know, very so public that they're just, you know,

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their mainstay like like Seb and Cyril and Yatsu.

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So those are central figures.

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But for the vast majority, I refer to people as their positions and titles.

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Like I'll refer to Cyril as the sandbox DAO administrator.

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I refer to Seb as the sandbox co founder.

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I'll refer to yet as the chairman of like Animoca brands or the special council member,

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00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,000
whatever position is most applicable.

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So I'll generally do that.

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But without further ado, this is the unpacking of the DAO relationship map and how the DAO

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00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:04,320
came to be ready.

247
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It all starts with the sandbox company used to be headquartered in Paris.

248
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:16,680
It is now in Malta in terms of legally where it is.

249
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That happened about 2018.

250
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,800
It doesn't matter.

251
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:20,800
It happened a little while ago.

252
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,080
Twenty twenty one something like that.

253
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:31,640
It has a San token and a land token NFT that is functioning as part of, you know, holding

254
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:32,640
stuff.

255
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,640
You can do things with it.

256
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:39,440
I can speculate creating a thriving ecosystem of people, products and purpose.

257
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So I go over that in episode 31, the details of which.

258
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When you put them all together, what is it that you're left with?

259
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,760
What do you get?

260
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:57,280
You get that ecosystem, the daily interactions and of all the people, purpose and products

261
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,320
buying and selling.

262
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,760
So that's what you're that's what you are, what you have.

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You have a thriving ecosystem sandbox created through all of these things.

264
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But as it said in its white paper in twenty twenty, it wants to create a DAO.

265
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It has every intention of creating a DAO.

266
00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:17,680
So how do you do that?

267
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,300
It started in twenty twenty, the idea, but it really didn't start planning until two

268
00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:29,200
years later when and Seb talked about this in I think it was Sandel Podcast eight.

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00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,680
He talked about the conditions being not they weren't right until recently when there is

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an ecosystem that was thriving.

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They have the partner base to support it.

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Right.

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00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,120
Things aren't correctly aligned for them to launch it in twenty twenty when the white

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paper hits.

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So they have to wait until conditions are right.

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Twenty twenty three conditions start aligning twenty twenty four.

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00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,280
They're ready to launch.

278
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,280
OK.

279
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,240
So how do you launch a DAO?

280
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,240
What is a DAO?

281
00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,720
A centralized autonomous organization.

282
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It's a collection of people voting on things to spend money.

283
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,480
So what do they do?

284
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Sandbox then looks at Arasaki.

285
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:15,360
Oh, they it is a is a consulting company based in Paris.

286
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,560
And you know, the the.

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00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:24,400
The founder of the company, which was in Paris at the time as well, you know, probably meets

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00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,200
the the the founder of Arasaki, who is currently the DAO administrator, currently the current

289
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,280
DAO administrator, also in Paris, Paris and Paris.

290
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,280
They probably meet somewhere.

291
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280
All right.

292
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,360
Fine.

293
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,760
They partner with Arasaki.

294
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:47,160
Arasaki then decides it needs to create a team, a team that will help create a DAO.

295
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,480
So what do they do?

296
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,280
They link up with Fleet Collective.

297
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,120
It too, I found connections in Paris, but they seem mostly worldwide.

298
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,560
Also they seem like they're owned by another company.

299
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,600
I could not find much about anything on Fleet Collective when it came to their business

300
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:05,600
registration.

301
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:06,960
They're like a ghost.

302
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,760
But I did find some, I think, associations with another company and headquartered in

303
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:12,760
Paris.

304
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:13,760
They kind of the same terminology.

305
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,280
The only thing I the only reason that they're blacked out right now is because I couldn't

306
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,840
link specifically the founders of Fleet Collective and this other company.

307
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,160
I couldn't find that smoking gun that would really link them.

308
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,560
So I don't feel comfortable putting their name here because I could be wrong.

309
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,600
And but but it's really, really close together.

310
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,240
I'm pretty sure it's that company anyways.

311
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,360
It doesn't really matter for what we're talking about.

312
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:45,360
In any case, Arasaki, oh, hires people from Fleet Collective as Web 3 specialists, project

313
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,840
managers, that sort of thing to help staff the admin team.

314
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,840
Who else does our sake or tap?

315
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,040
Oh, right.

316
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,800
So I X mark means, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna include them in our little thing

317
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:57,800
here.

318
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,840
Who else do they have tab, they tap the carton group based out of the Cayman Islands.

319
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,000
That's that's a number number one, the carton group based out of the Cayman Islands.

320
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:16,360
If carton group sounds familiar to you, and some of your your it's that sounds familiar

321
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,680
to you, you would be correct.

322
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:24,520
The carton group was was also related to another Web 3 DAO project.

323
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,260
Very well known.

324
00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:28,320
The Apecoin DAO.

325
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,320
That's right.

326
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:35,360
The carton group, which is now part of the DAO admin team for the sandbox, was one of

327
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:42,120
the main entities that wrote AIP one in March 2022.

328
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:47,240
That stood up the eight foundation and the Cayman Islands.

329
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,280
And which created a special counsel, created the tech stack that everyone knows, which

330
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,760
is discourse, the website and snapshot.

331
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,440
Does that look familiar?

332
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:03,000
It should, because that's the same tech stack that the sandbox DAO has.

333
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:10,120
Anyways, so that creates the tech stack up until AIP 183 in December 2022.

334
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:16,500
So like eight months later, when the renewal contract for carton group is not renewed,

335
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:22,320
and then that the carton group is replaced, goes through a lengthy request for proposal

336
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,800
process, the Apecoin DAO goes into this emergency set of meetings, they call it work group zero.

337
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,220
Anyways, that was a rabbit hole in and of itself.

338
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:35,280
And one of the things that I promised that I would answer, and I promise but one of the

339
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:42,440
things that I ended up figuring out for the Apecoin DAO that that is really good for them

340
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,440
to know.

341
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,120
So I tease in the tweet, who is running the Apecoin DAO through researching the incidentals

342
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,920
of researching the sandbox DAO foundation led me through the carton group led me through

343
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,200
the Apecoin foundation to try and trace some steps and people and all sorts of things.

344
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,440
Anyways, I think I figured out who's running the Apecoin DAO and who's running the Ape

345
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,560
foundation more on that later.

346
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,640
So let's go back to the sandbox DAO.

347
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,160
Arasaki Oh, wants to stand up a DAO.

348
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,360
How do you do that?

349
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:17,360
What is a DAO?

350
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,960
I'm going to be covering that in the later episode.

351
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,440
Because this used to all be one big thing, it was going to be going through the relationship,

352
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:31,400
how we got to today, and then an assessment of the constitution and a reading of everything

353
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,640
to dissect it and that sort of stuff and the bylaws, but it ended up being so big that

354
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,020
they need to be two separate episodes.

355
00:22:38,020 --> 00:22:39,800
So I'll go on that in a later episode.

356
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,880
But who does Arasaki Oh tap to help stand up the DAO?

357
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,740
The Maples group in the Cayman Islands.

358
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:56,240
Number two, I guess by now it's number three because Apecoin DAO foundation, but because

359
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,040
this is a sandbox episode, we're just gonna stick with reference number two, the Maples

360
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:07,640
group headquartered out of the Cayman Islands, the Grand Cayman Islands.

361
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:14,800
So the Maples group then taps a law firm, Travers Thorpe Alburga, also in the Cayman

362
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:22,800
Islands, who then oh gosh, that was a little bit different.

363
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,960
I had to fix things, but okay.

364
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,120
So then what do the two of them do?

365
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:36,120
They create the sandbox DAO foundation headquarters out of the Cayman Islands.

366
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:44,520
So this is the creation of the DAO right there, the legal entity, reference in the timeline

367
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,920
earlier that is the sandbox foundation is created as a legal entity to rep the DAO in

368
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,040
the Cayman Islands.

369
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:58,900
So there we are, we have arrived at the creation of the legal entity.

370
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:05,240
It was created by Travers Thorpe Alburga and the Maples group.

371
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,240
And the way I found that out was reading the document, you can see the names, who the authorized

372
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:16,920
signatures were, and that kind of helps pinpoint who did what and where.

373
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,200
But it doesn't just end there, right?

374
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,920
So the sandbox DAO foundation then gives rise to the founder, the director, the secretary,

375
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,960
the supervisor, and the officers that staff the sandbox DAO foundation, the legal entity

376
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,800
in the Cayman Islands.

377
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:40,120
All of which is going to be that second episode that I took out of this one, which is a dissecting

378
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,520
of what does the founder role do?

379
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:43,520
What does the director do?

380
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,440
The secretary, the supervisor, the officers, why am I seeing these names?

381
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,600
Why is it important that it's structured this way in the Cayman Islands by these entities?

382
00:24:52,600 --> 00:25:01,960
So next episode will be a review of the Constitution, the articles, and everyone who's involved.

383
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,920
But in terms of process and what happened, the founder, all the positions of the foundation

384
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:18,080
are created because of this entity that's been formed called a foundation company.

385
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,440
There's an interesting connection about how that happens.

386
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:26,880
Spoiler alert, foundation is actually not just a noun, the sandbox DAO foundation, it is

387
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,880
also an adjective.

388
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,720
It is a type of corporation, and I'll get all into that in the future episode.

389
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,520
So what does Travers Torbell Berger do?

390
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:45,560
They create a subsidiary, no, a separate legal entity called International Corp Services

391
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Limited, and you can find them on Dun & Bradstreet.

392
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:59,520
But the connection there is that the key principle of ICSL, as it's doing business as International

393
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:09,000
Corporation Services Limited, ICSL, the key principle for ICSL is also one of the managing

394
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,920
partners at Travers Torbell Berger, so connection made.

395
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:22,640
They then, let's see, then the second one is in the articles of the association, you'll

396
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:28,120
see that there they are on the front page.

397
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:33,080
The registered office, International Corporation Services Limited, the registered office of

398
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,320
the sandbox foundation.

399
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:35,920
Okay, cool.

400
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,400
So that's link number one.

401
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,400
And then link number two is the memorandum of association.

402
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,640
Same thing, same registered office.

403
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,600
Okay, cool.

404
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,880
Keeping it going, ICSL.

405
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:56,600
So we pretty much established ICSL, the registered office is doing business as the Travers Torbell

406
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,640
Berger group, they're associated.

407
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,920
But then there's a step further, which is then an entity called the International Protector

408
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,920
and Advisors Limited, IPNA.

409
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,840
They get involved, so that's a new entity, also in the Cayman Islands.

410
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,240
Yeah, one, two, three, four, five, five, right?

411
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,560
Also in the Cayman Islands.

412
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,880
And I actually don't know how they're connected.

413
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:33,800
I know that they are the entity that SIP number two calls out as being a calls out as being

414
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,480
the entity that is staffing the founder.

415
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,000
Hold on, let me pull it up.

416
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,720
In SIP number two, right, so here it is, SIP number two.

417
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:53,040
And in SIP number two, it talks about the foundation.

418
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,040
There it is.

419
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,080
It talks about how Cayman law requires a supervisor and blah, blah, blah.

420
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,520
International Protectors and Advisors is the founder of the foundation.

421
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,640
And the foundation has engaged IPA to serve as a supervisor.

422
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:15,840
So IPA starts staffing the board and the founders and all of that.

423
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,160
But I can't figure out who owns IPNA.

424
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:26,840
There's some connections I think I've located that links it back to ICSL or maybe Travers,

425
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,120
maybe even Maples Group.

426
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,940
You'll see that there's a lot of collaboration, but I can't figure it out.

427
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:34,840
So I'm not going to name.

428
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,840
I'm not going to go much deeper than that.

429
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:44,040
In any case, whatever their association is in terms of who owns it, they are the people

430
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:49,700
who start staffing the founder, the director, secretary, supervisor and officer positions

431
00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:58,000
that's required in the foundation corporation legal entity that's been stood up for the

432
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,480
Dow.

433
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:10,120
Okay, so that right there is the legal process for how the Dow sandbox Dow Foundation came

434
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,040
to be in the Cayman Islands.

435
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,240
All right.

436
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:21,880
So what is a what is our Saki you're going to do next?

437
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,360
At this point, let's just hide the second window.

438
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,360
Cool.

439
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,120
So what is our Saki Oh going to do next?

440
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,000
Well they're going to create a tech stack.

441
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,400
And that tech stack looks a lot like the coin Dow Foundation tech stack.

442
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:45,800
Probably not surprising because the the Dow administrator has said in previous am a's

443
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:53,100
that they took a lot of lessons learned from different Dows of which a coin Dow was a inspiration.

444
00:29:53,100 --> 00:30:00,580
So not surprising that they're using discourse and and a website and snapshot.

445
00:30:00,580 --> 00:30:03,000
So they create a tech stack.

446
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,440
And then what do you do once you have a tech stack?

447
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,300
He starts bringing in building out the Dow more.

448
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:18,160
So he brings in people to on as special counsel members and advisory board members.

449
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,520
While in the tech stack linking it to the voting process so they then technically link

450
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:33,560
that for the token holders of the San token and the NFT the land.

451
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,920
So one San equals one voting power and one land equals 4500 voting power.

452
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:44,580
I'm going to cover that more in an episode linking ecosystem to the Dow and its voting

453
00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:45,720
process and all that.

454
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:52,400
So it'll be a separate separate one from the inspection and the review of the Constitution.

455
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:58,000
This one's going to be more centered on ecosystem and how the Dow functions.

456
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,960
Okay so there we are.

457
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,960
So I'm not going to I'm not going to worry about that right now.

458
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,080
All we need to worry about is there is a tech stack and that tech stack is linked to the

459
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:14,980
NFT tokens and the San token and that makes the world go round for the the Dow end user

460
00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:17,120
where we actually touch.

461
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Okay.

462
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,840
All right.

463
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,080
So here we are.

464
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,880
We have an admin team.

465
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,760
We have a legal entity.

466
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,640
We have a leadership board, special counsel and advisory board.

467
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,620
We have a tech stack that links to the ecosystem.

468
00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:38,800
What now is the Dow admin team to do to make the Dow go to turn on the engine?

469
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,640
Well, you bring about the sips one through three.

470
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:52,000
The Dow, the sips Dow one through three were the Dow budget, the Dow foundation and the

471
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,680
the sandbox Dow ecosystem.

472
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,480
Actually, this look.

473
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,840
So sip number one was introducing the sandbox Dow.

474
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:03,840
Introducing the sandbox Dow.

475
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,240
Sit number two was the sandbox foundation and sit number three was the initial budget

476
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,240
for the Dow.

477
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,400
Okay, so you can start to see kind of how it all it's all starting to come together.

478
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,960
So sips number one, two and three are introduced in May of 2024.

479
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,640
All right, so that that was the launching of the Dow as we saw it.

480
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,560
But actually, the Dow had been launched a lot sooner.

481
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,040
It had been worked on.

482
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:33,640
So when you heard in the AMA some early AMA's, the Dow administrator and in the sandbox

483
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,440
founder seven zero, they mentioned a number of times that they had been working on the

484
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,440
Dow.

485
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,440
They had been putting on a lot of effort.

486
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,500
This is what that effort was.

487
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:47,360
The piecing together of all the entities and the groups, the Dow foundation, the tax act,

488
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:53,000
the board members, the staffing of the admin team, all of these things coming together.

489
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,000
Right.

490
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Until finally, you can present it to the community for vote sips one, two and three.

491
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:06,200
We already talked about sips one, two and three very early on.

492
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,060
And the sandbox Dow, I'm sorry, the sand out podcast, we talked about it, and they launch

493
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:15,520
it through a medium article and a bunch of AMA's.

494
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,900
So that's how you connect it to the ecosystem.

495
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:21,200
You put up the sips in the.

496
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Put up the sips over here in in snapshot, and then you launch it through an article

497
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,440
to introduce to the ecosystem so that everyone knows what to do, where to go, how to work

498
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,880
up, do something with it.

499
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:43,080
Okay, and we covered that over here in episode number one.

500
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
It all started May 20.

501
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,520
It actually started a long time ago because the white paper.

502
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,320
So this was my very first episode, right?

503
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,280
First episode four months ago on June 17.

504
00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:01,660
And you and even then we had known that that through the AMA's that they had been working

505
00:34:01,660 --> 00:34:09,080
on it behind the scenes without the community knowing about it for many months before.

506
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:15,120
And the original vision of Seb was that the Dow would eventually be introduced, but it

507
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:20,200
really hadn't emerged in any sort of significant way until May 28.

508
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,360
Was that two weeks ago?

509
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,800
There we go.

510
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,960
So what was then two weeks ago?

511
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,920
I did my first podcast episode two weeks later when it was announced, and that's what started

512
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,640
us down this train to where we are now.

513
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,080
Sandow podcast episode 34.

514
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,800
That ain't like a throw.

515
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,800
For all my Spanish speakers.

516
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,640
So that was episode one.

517
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,160
So yeah.

518
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:59,040
So yeah, you have now a admin team, a legal entity, a tech stack connection to the ecosystem.

519
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,280
It's been announced.

520
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:07,120
And now you have the SIPs that are ready to vote and people start voting.

521
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,940
And this is where I'd like to take a pause.

522
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:14,960
So this right here, this little section here that you're seeing, I like to call this my

523
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:21,960
my triangle of confusion, because it's still very unclear the relationships and how everything

524
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:28,600
works between the foundation and the council and the admin team.

525
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,520
The SIPs kind of brought into being what they had done, but it's still very unclear like

526
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,360
how all the relationships work together.

527
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,080
I might have to do an update podcast in the future, but for now, my triangle of confusion

528
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:48,240
is still how the founders and the directors interact with the special council and advisory

529
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:49,240
board members.

530
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:53,120
I've reached out to every special council member at this point, all of them, and I've

531
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,160
only been able to secure an interview with Seb, just the one.

532
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:02,880
So the the other four, the other four special council members, I've been unable to interview

533
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,040
them so far.

534
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,400
Some of them haven't been able to get back to me.

535
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,700
Some of them have declined to interview.

536
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:12,720
So Bobby, if you're watching, I hope that you can come to rest your on that, whether

537
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:18,320
by putting in a good word or just having them on your podcast, either or, please, we'd love

538
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,860
to know who what the special council does.

539
00:36:22,860 --> 00:36:26,680
We know what the advisory board does because I've interviewed me about and Dr. Loretta

540
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Chen and I feel like they're I've reached out to other advisory board members, but I

541
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,860
haven't been able to secure an interview with them either.

542
00:36:33,860 --> 00:36:37,400
But for the two that I did interview, it was pretty clear they don't have they don't meet

543
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,480
together on a regular basis.

544
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,580
They meet as needed.

545
00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:51,260
And then Cyril clarified that the Dow administrator clarified in a forum response earlier today

546
00:36:51,260 --> 00:36:56,600
and yesterday that that he kind of does some informal one on one meets with the special

547
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,720
council doesn't meet with the advisory board as much as he'd like to, although in the future,

548
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,400
maybe that will change.

549
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,920
And I'm not really sure how the advisory board worked for the special council, except that

550
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,640
it doesn't really.

551
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,120
That was confirmed by by my two podcasts interviews with the advisory board that they don't meet

552
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,120
regularly.

553
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,360
They don't really talk to the special council.

554
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,520
So I'm kind of unsure how everything pieces together on a day to day basis, except that

555
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:27,920
the Dow admin team working with Fleet Collective and Carton Group staffs that and does things

556
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:33,600
like the SIP reviews and all that sort of stuff.

557
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,600
And there's more.

558
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:40,160
I'll cover that in a future episode on the Dow ecosystem.

559
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,440
So but that's my triangle of confusion.

560
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:48,760
I'm still not exactly sure on what the relationship is, who answers to who and and all that one

561
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,720
day one day.

562
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,640
OK, so here we are.

563
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,320
relationship map almost fleshed out, but we're not done yet.

564
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,320
There's still a little bit more to go.

565
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,920
So what comes after this?

566
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,360
Oh, I covered episode 33, right?

567
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,200
Episode 33 was my introduction to the sandbox ecosystem.

568
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:20,360
It tried to approach this, but it mostly dealt with the people products and the purpose.

569
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:27,180
My note here was that it's not clear what the relationship is between the special council

570
00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:29,500
and the Dow admin team.

571
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:34,720
Is there any position that the special council does not have authority over?

572
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:39,280
So that that's something that stuck out to me as I read that sentence.

573
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,280
That was that that was only wow.

574
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,280
That was only four days ago.

575
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,280
Geez.

576
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,400
So that was Sandel podcast 33.

577
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:54,520
That was my my review of the Dow medium article that published and Dow medium article was

578
00:38:54,520 --> 00:39:01,660
an update to the SIP process and update to the way ahead and I had a number of of comments

579
00:39:01,660 --> 00:39:05,480
questions that I posted and the Dow team is answering.

580
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,120
So it takes time.

581
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,160
I had a lot of questions.

582
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,000
There were a lot of questions.

583
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,080
If you had looked at the medium article, there are a lot of questions that need to be clarified

584
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,420
and that sort of thing.

585
00:39:17,420 --> 00:39:19,120
So that we're working through that.

586
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,360
But that was only just four days ago.

587
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,360
That's funny.

588
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,760
So yeah, episode 33 four days ago.

589
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,160
It's still confusing to me.

590
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:38,560
But we'll work through it, especially now that Bobby Kunta episode 32 introduced Bobby

591
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:39,560
Kunta.

592
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,840
He introduced himself what maybe a few days ago, four days ago, something like that.

593
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,880
And he is the communications manager.

594
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,320
So very excited, Bobby.

595
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,520
Very happy you're here.

596
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,280
Cool.

597
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,680
Episode 33.

598
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:55,880
Now what's the next step?

599
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,320
What else do we need to know about the Dow relationship map?

600
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:09,820
Well, as you may or may not have known yet, Sue, chairman of of animal grounds, he was

601
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:17,720
on the special counsel of the ape foundation back when it launched in March of 2022.

602
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:22,320
He is no longer on the eight found, excuse me, the special counsel for the eight point

603
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,320
Dow.

604
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:30,000
But he is, however, special counsel for sandbox, Dow foundation, I'm sorry, foundation, the

605
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,320
sandbox Dow special counsel.

606
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,600
Okay.

607
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,360
So that's the first note.

608
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:43,520
And that linkage probably is not surprising, because he is the chairman of the board for

609
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,160
animal grounds based out of Hong Kong Virgin Islands.

610
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,820
I'm not really sure when I searched up the business listings for animal grounds, I got

611
00:40:52,820 --> 00:40:56,400
a lot of business listings all over the place.

612
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,840
It seemed like there was a big animal grounds company listed in the Virgin Islands.

613
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:08,580
But also there is a what looked like a headquarters in Hong Kong, kind of unsure of the corporate

614
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:09,580
structure.

615
00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:15,680
So whatever the corporate structure is, the chairman of the board is yet Sue.

616
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,280
Right?

617
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,260
You do you be forgiven to think that and a mocha brands owns the sandbox company, as

618
00:41:23,260 --> 00:41:30,280
if you look on their website, sandbox.game.

619
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,640
And then you scroll down to the bottom of the page.

620
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,520
Scroll over to you can't see it very well.

621
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,800
So if you scroll on, there we go.

622
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:51,080
So if you scroll to the bottom right of the page, you'll see subsidiary of an amoka brands.

623
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:57,800
So you would be forgiven if you thought that an amoka brands owns the sandbox.

624
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,480
However, that's not exactly true.

625
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:09,880
An amoka brands does kind of I mean, through extension does own the sandbox company.

626
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:19,680
But legally speaking, the an amoka brands owns a Casablanca global limited.

627
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:32,480
Baca sable I thought was Spanish actually turns out Baca sable is Baca sable is French

628
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:44,480
pronounced Baca sable Baca sable Baca sable and it means in French sandbox, sandpit, go

629
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,520
figure.

630
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:51,960
So the an amoka brands owns a Casablanca.

631
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,560
Yeah, thank you, Sepia.

632
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:59,080
It says in the chat it means sandbox.

633
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:06,600
They Baca sable global limited is registered in Malta, which is in the which is in like

634
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,840
south of Italy in the Mediterranean.

635
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:19,720
And we know that they're connected to an amoka brands because in the first sentence of the

636
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:26,320
recent announcement where sandbox announced 20 million funded by where we go.

637
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:32,080
So in the in the announcement press release where the sandbox recently announced 20 million

638
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:38,520
funding at a $1 billion valuation and that was in just I think it's just a few months

639
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,400
ago it was in the first sentence there it is June 2024.

640
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,800
Not that long ago.

641
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:50,840
The first sentence reads an amoka brands Corporation Limited.

642
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,280
refer to as an amoka brands the company advancing digital property property rights for the open

643
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:03,500
metaverse and its subsidiary Baca sable global limited operator of the sandbox.

644
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:05,960
So connection made.

645
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,160
And they're not hiding it.

646
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,820
It's part of the press release.

647
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:14,280
So Baca sable global limited is owned by an amoka brands.

648
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,280
And if you search Malta's registry.

649
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,920
The sandbox is actually called TSB gaming limited.

650
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:28,520
It used to be registered in Paris until 2022 when its registry was transferred to the jurisdiction

651
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,640
of Malta.

652
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:43,060
And then here you go you can see Malta registration date and TSB gaming limited.

653
00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:48,960
Its share capital if you look at its share capital excuse me that's an involvement page

654
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:55,040
you can see who the involved parties are but more importantly.

655
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:04,280
Its primary shareholder who owns 100% of the company the sandbox gaming limited Baca sable

656
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:16,160
global limited owns all the shares so in effect owns TSB gaming limited.

657
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,160
So there you go.

658
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,540
TSB gaming limited is the name of the sandbox company.

659
00:45:21,540 --> 00:45:26,400
So when I say sandbox company I'm at what I actually mean I didn't even know this until

660
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:36,120
this episode really that when we say TSB gaming limited we're actually saying the sandbox

661
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,400
company and when you say the sandbox company you're actually referring to TSB gaming limited

662
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,900
which is owned by Baca sable global limited which is owned by an amoka brands.

663
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:49,840
So there you go.

664
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:56,720
Look at that all fitting together now.

665
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:04,760
Beautiful beautiful this is what took me days of no sleep and researching and googling and

666
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,080
all sorts of things trying to piece stuff together reading corporate documents delving

667
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,320
into the weeds.

668
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:16,460
This is what took me so long to figure out.

669
00:46:16,460 --> 00:46:24,320
And yeah so we started with this we all we knew was the sandbox company the sandbox dial

670
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,920
foundation there was a special counsel yet Sue was a part of the special counsel advisory

671
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,760
board you may or may not known yet Sue was chairman of an amoka I certainly didn't know

672
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,760
that really until not even like a few months ago when I really started researching the

673
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,480
Dow I really didn't know and amokas place and the sandbox company I had no idea I did

674
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,760
I knew the name and amoka but I didn't really know what they were or who they were not until

675
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:54,280
I started researching interviews I like many sand fan people I was worried about the ecosystem

676
00:46:54,280 --> 00:47:01,040
I was just worried about game maker and playing the game and the rewards and and I was just

677
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,120
worried about that stuff I wasn't worried about who owned what and who did what not

678
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:14,480
until the business end of the sandbox came full-fledged into the ecosystem in the form

679
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,840
of the Dow because I'm a business person and I had no I had no need to really work the

680
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:26,520
business and except for publishing experiences until the Dow which represents to me the perfect

681
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:32,200
ecosystem a purpose intersection of gaming community and business of which I love so

682
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:37,840
much so I am now heavily involved in sandboxed out and I pivoted as soon as it was announced

683
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:44,400
in May 28th I had no idea it was gonna happen just like everyone else and boom so that's

684
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:53,880
where we started and that is where we ended after we became much more knowledgeable about

685
00:47:53,880 --> 00:48:01,040
all the groupings okay so are we done no we're not we're not done yet and the reason why

686
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:09,160
we're not done yet is because of those numbers I was throwing up earlier in the podcast you

687
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,000
remember how I mentioned how it kept on throwing up a number every time I said the word Cayman's

688
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:21,560
all right I ended up getting up to one two three four five six six mentions of Cayman's

689
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:27,000
carton group Cayman's maple groups is in the Cayman's Traverse Thorpe al-Burga law firm

690
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:39,720
is in the Cayman's ICSL is in the Cayman's IPA is in the Cayman's eight coin Dow also

691
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,680
in the Cayman's but you know okay but the more important thing is that sandboxed out

692
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:51,320
foundation is in the Cayman's six references to the Grand Cayman Islands and as I started

693
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,800
researching and and that started popping up I was trying to figure out why was that why

694
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:07,480
is the Cayman's popping up so much so part two of my my talks are my investigations my

695
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:17,560
analysis was why is the Cayman's so involved in the doubt all right here's why when we

696
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:24,680
say the Cayman's we're actually talking about the Grand Cayman Islands and if you we need

697
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,600
our help we need we need help from our friends at Google again to help figure this one out

698
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:34,240
specifically Google Maps now if you were to drop a list of everyone who's been involved

699
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:44,520
so far carton group IPA ICSL the law firm the Maples group fleet collective you'll and

700
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,680
you start listing out where are they located where is their place of business you know

701
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:54,400
cartons group is in the Cayman's they're on Martin's Market Street international protectors

702
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:59,440
and advisors IPA they're the ones who staff the founders and secretary positions they're

703
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:08,400
in Georgetown in the Cayman's ICSL there and they're in oh yeah IPA I couldn't find a actual

704
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,840
address but they're in Georgetown that's all I could find without paying extra money to

705
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:22,640
a website that would tell me yeah so public right I see a cell there in the Cayman's Travers

706
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,720
Torp and Alburga they're in the Cayman's Harbor place Maples group they're in two parts of

707
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:31,680
the Cayman's and fleet collective I still have no idea where they are could not figure

708
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,200
it out I think I spent like two hours maybe an hour or two trying to figure out where

709
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,200
fleet collective was I know they started out in Paris but I don't think they're theirs

710
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:45,960
I think they're also in California and other places but they have people all over the place

711
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:55,000
hence them being you know a fleet of over a thousand fleet freelancers that the admin

712
00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:00,520
team helps staff the admin team so in any case in any case Google Maps it right you

713
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:11,160
start Google Maps scene where where everyone is and I mentioned earlier ICSL you know they're

714
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:18,440
related because on Dundon Bradstreet the key principal is listed as the same person who

715
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:27,360
is listed and the law firm as a managing partner so link link there oh right now so keep going

716
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:38,640
Google Maps so when you draw the search you come up with here Grand Cayman Islands looks

717
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:49,640
pretty cool it's nice little island kind of squished right but it's wide you know and

718
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:56,920
when you start pumping in start putting in the the the listings whoops my bad let me

719
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:03,720
go back sorry like I said Grand Cayman Islands when you start pulling up some Google images

720
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:10,960
you start seeing some cool stuff like look at this look at this beautiful beautiful waters

721
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:17,940
the buildings are like multicolored pretty cool looking buildings I mean that that looks

722
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:21,680
aesthetically pleasing and then you could go up a little bit you'll see the suburbs

723
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:27,480
and the residential area and it doesn't look all that crowded nice little architecture

724
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:34,760
framework building a little bit of downtown going on over here but looks like residential

725
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:44,200
apartments and office buildings and stuff right okay looks pretty cool so looks beautiful

726
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:50,800
I've never been but looks beautiful but when you start popping in everyone's address you

727
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:56,920
start to see it take you to the same part of the island down there in the bottom bottom

728
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:04,880
left right specifically takes you to Georgetown right we already kind of knew one of them

729
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,120
was in Georgetown the International Protectors and Advisors the people who staff the sandbox

730
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,920
Dow Foundation they're in Georgetown that's the only only town I could get I couldn't

731
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,640
get a street name or anything like that without paying extra money but everyone else I could

732
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:24,160
figure out it was publicly available what their what their addresses were but it takes

733
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:35,600
you to Georgetown located in the bottom left of the island okay so everyone turned out

734
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:42,120
to be in Georgetown all except Fleet Collective don't know where they are still don't know

735
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:53,040
where they are so yeah Georgetown everybody's in Georgetown and I thought oh okay fascinating

736
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:59,200
not only is Cayman Islands popping up six times right many different key players within

737
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:05,120
the Dalles formation not only are they on the same island they're also in the same town

738
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:13,400
okay keep going so Cayman Islands let's zoom out for a second yeah Cayman Islands is is

739
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:19,700
not that big like if you were to zoom out where it is it's south of Cuba Cuba and west

740
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:27,480
of Jamaica it's north of Central America which is Honduras Belize Guatemala El Salvador Nicaragua

741
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:35,000
all of that so it's in there in the Caribbean Sea it's a small island it's it's tiny like

742
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:43,920
Jamaica is bigger than the Cayman Islands so you're not really like I can't remember

743
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,600
you maps it I think you could get from one into the other in an hour or two it's not

744
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:57,000
that big so you can kind of be it's a small island which means that there are a lot of

745
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:04,160
people who understandably probably know each other and and so not alarming that everything

746
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:17,480
is in you know the the same town Georgetown but turns out not only is it in the same town

747
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:23,800
but almost all of them are headquartered on the same street specifically South Church

748
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:30,440
Street which is a pretty long street right pretty long street it goes around the southern

749
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:41,400
portion of Georgetown kind of like kind of goes all the way around the end but yeah Church

750
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,200
Street okay so they're all on the same tree street but again it's a tiny island it's a

751
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:53,720
it's a town in the island and so you know there probably aren't too too many streets

752
00:55:53,720 --> 00:56:00,980
and I guess if you start Google Maps seen it a little bit and then you start putting

753
00:56:00,980 --> 00:56:09,600
down some some markers and oh gosh darn it so what what just happened when you Google

754
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:16,040
Maps all the key players it turns out that not only are they in the same town on the

755
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:22,680
same island in the same town on the same street they're right next to each other they're next

756
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:31,960
door neighbors right so let's let's pick this apart the law firm is in the same building

757
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:39,080
as the corporation that helped draw up the the documents and that are that's the registered

758
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:47,920
office which is in the same building I think I'm pretty sure for the oops didn't uh don't

759
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,920
know this for certain but it's a pretty good guess right I feel comfortable saying that

760
00:56:52,920 --> 00:57:01,160
is in the same building as the staff for the the founder and the secretary and all that

761
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:06,200
probably the same building but definitely in the same town and the nomenclature matches

762
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:15,560
I mean it's just it's it's probably true all right so same building which is harbor place

763
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:22,480
harbor place is a building and that is that big blue one remember how in the beginning

764
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:31,540
they had that big big beautiful picture right little did we know we were staring at most

765
00:57:31,540 --> 00:57:39,560
of the dow's foundation right there right there okay and then the photo credit you know

766
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:45,280
I found this picture I went to the law firm and I saw it there when I was trying to google

767
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:51,600
google some good pictures this was just too beautiful to pass up so yeah little easter

768
00:57:51,600 --> 00:58:01,420
egg but the law firm and the secretary's registered office is in the same building and it's

769
00:58:01,420 --> 00:58:05,320
likely in the same building as the rest of the staff for the foundation the director

770
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:12,800
the secretary and the founder and all that but also it is two buildings over it now this

771
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,280
one is a little bit confusing because google maps says that this middle building is maples

772
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:21,480
group but if you if you do a little bit of street view it actually turns out this one

773
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:30,720
right here is the front end of of the oogland house which is the official registration of

774
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:38,420
of the maples group and again the maples group was the one who probably who hired or or tapped

775
00:58:38,420 --> 00:58:46,520
the law firm to strop all the all the documents for the foundation okay now their second place

776
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:52,240
of business the boundary hall is only a three minute drive from oogland house okay which

777
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:59,480
is also only an eight minute drive from the carton group again the carton group is part

778
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:09,500
of the admin team so there you go the grand cayman islands popping up so much in the sandbox

779
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:16,980
dow foundation most of the entities live right next to each other i say live work are headquartered

780
00:59:16,980 --> 00:59:27,800
right next to each other okay so revelation okay i want to take it uh take a step and

781
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:32,920
say that serial did answer quite a number of questions that i posted um so that helped

782
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:38,560
out tremendously thank you so much and reminded me of some things about sips two and three

783
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,180
which played a part all of which i'm mostly going to cover in the next episode when it

784
00:59:42,180 --> 00:59:46,980
comes to the dow constitution articles of incorporation and and so on and so forth so

785
00:59:46,980 --> 00:59:54,260
but back to grand cayman islands let's get the elephant out into the room all right we're

786
00:59:54,260 --> 00:59:58,100
web three people if you've been around crypto people for a long time you know we're all

787
00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:03,400
about things like undisclosed payments and the illuminati and the secret cabal and the

788
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:09,060
tapestry and all sorts of stuff that is weaving into this people pulling the strings yeah

789
01:00:09,060 --> 01:00:13,620
so if you looked at this situation you'd be forgiven if you thought there's some weird

790
01:00:13,620 --> 01:00:18,420
funky suspicious things are going on but on the balance of things when i sat down and

791
01:00:18,420 --> 01:00:23,840
i started listing out what was the balance of judging whether or not a conspiracy is

792
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:31,080
a foot here i i don't think so i don't think that's what's happening all right so you you

793
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:38,400
all can draw your own conclusions about whether or not a conspiracy is at play i don't think

794
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:44,840
so and here's why so when i judge whether conspiracy is a foot and let's look at the

795
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:53,680
what is the legal term for conspiracy it's not mince words here all right so conspiracy

796
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:59,720
as defined by google can be described generally as a sort of partnership in crime legally

797
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:04,480
a conspiracy exists when two or more persons join together and form an agreement to violate

798
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,280
the law and then act on that agreement so what are we talking about when it comes to

799
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:17,240
business conspiracy or we're mostly talking about fraud waste abuse controlling interest

800
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:25,320
without disclosure and a general directing or redirecting of the original intent of something

801
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:31,120
so like we we want this to be the voice of the people the voice of the ecosystem of sanfam

802
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:36,480
a conspiracy might involve the people pulling the strings behind doors to really render

803
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:42,600
that all invalid so that our vote doesn't matter so that if we do vote then it doesn't

804
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,480
really make a difference because the people who control the entity the legality of it

805
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,600
can then just decide what they want and they have the authority to go do it and use the

806
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:55,800
dow funds and all of our money as payment all right so that's what i'm talking about

807
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:01,560
when i say judging of conspiracy i'm talking about the more interesting version of how

808
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:08,440
does that affect what we're doing in the dow do we really matter yeah all right so on the

809
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:14,040
one hand you have secret illuminati cabal controlling everything you know that that

810
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:20,560
cabal is well known in the web 3 you know the the the whales are are accused of being

811
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:25,320
a illuminati cabal the business interests all sorts of people right so when i started

812
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:31,840
listing it out here here is ex sebga i think you're right sebga in the chat said i think

813
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,360
it's more for legal reasons and centralization uh we'll get to that because that's part of

814
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:42,280
what uh the other hand is i'm really looking at two different outcomes here one is something

815
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:47,360
that reasonable people would do reasonable people would do to protect business interests

816
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,760
to protect people all sorts of stuff legal concerns and things that are reasonable all

817
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:57,000
right on the other hand you have a secret illuminati cabal controlling interests fraud

818
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:02,360
ways behind the scenes all sorts of stuff pulling strings okay so let's list it out

819
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,640
and i'm just going to be brutally honest all right there's no mincing of words here let's

820
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,440
just get it out the secret illuminati cabal what would lead someone to believe that in

821
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:15,760
san fam and things that i've heard the community say a number one is there was no transparency

822
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:21,480
in what happened all right the dow just emerged out of nowhere i didn't even know what a dow

823
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:27,560
was until may 28th when it was suddenly announced through amas and articles and it was just

824
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:33,560
thrust upon everyone all right so there was no transparency and even in the amas there

825
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:42,040
was you could not have guessed that that everyone was next door to each other in the cayman

826
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:49,080
islands and oops i just messed up my there we go you could not have guessed that everyone

827
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:55,280
was next door to each other in the cayman islands and that the relationship map looked

828
01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:00,600
like this you you wouldn't be able to figure that out without i mean if i had known if

829
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:05,400
if it had been public i would have not had to do this episode but i had to do this episode

830
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:12,100
because the biggest complaint of the community thus far is there was very little transparency

831
01:04:12,100 --> 01:04:18,160
on how all this came about for whatever reasons that's what happened okay the second thing

832
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:26,560
is just as important as the first one and arguably i hear more complaints and more people

833
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,520
angry about this one than the first one is that there was an excessive urgency to vote

834
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:37,520
and rush everything into existence all right here's what i mean the dow was announced may

835
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:46,120
28th the same day five sips were thrust on the community to vote all right we talked

836
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:51,360
about that a little bit earlier a different podcast but we can remind everyone here back

837
01:04:51,360 --> 01:05:03,400
in the score card excuse me the scoreboard right five sips right five sips were thrust

838
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:09,720
on the community at the same time all right so we look at the dow the road back to the

839
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:14,720
dow that's probably an easier one to do here we go the road to the dow i show this every

840
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,720
once in a while i keep it up to date because of how important it is to just keep my bearings

841
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:25,480
in all of this right so the dow was announced may 28th right it was announced via medium

842
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:33,400
article sips one through three immediately the day of called to vote so a 14 day period

843
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:39,620
for sips one two and three to be voted on and then it was either accepted or rejected

844
01:05:39,620 --> 01:05:48,480
right uh okay six four and five came out on june 12th so that was two weeks later six

845
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,640
four and five came out to vote those were not important to the formation of the dow

846
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:59,400
six one two and three were the budget the legal entity and the the board so six one

847
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:05,760
two and three 14 day period started that day the same day people who didn't know what a

848
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:15,800
dow was on may 27th now is told they need to vote because they own land and uh they

849
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:22,840
own land and they have sand tokens so they're being asked to vote and the dow that they

850
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:27,840
didn't know was coming and now sips one two and three multiple pages worth of documents

851
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:34,080
oh by the way there's about what 20 30 pages worth of legal documents to read to figure

852
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:41,440
out what in the world is going on yeah it's a lot a lot for people so people are angry

853
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:46,680
very very angry they're upset that they weren't consulted in the formation of the dow uh and

854
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:51,160
rightly so the dow is supposed to be for the people by the people in the ecosystem and

855
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:57,880
the people were not consulted at all uh we know who's consulted now so there we go um

856
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,240
and then a bunch of amas happened right so that's where twitter spaces amas um all of

857
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:09,720
that starts coming out uh msc nsc lisbon happened so there's a fireside chat there very interesting

858
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:15,000
to listen to uh and some shed some light it was more of a press conference than it was

859
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,600
actually explaining what happened with the dow so many people were left unsatisfied with

860
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,800
that because it seemed more like the dow was announced may 28th and then fireside chat

861
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,840
came out was like oh hey we have a dow it's so great and then the community is like what

862
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:33,440
the world is a dow so the press release happened at the same time as the dow announcement making

863
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,680
it seem like everything's cool whereas the community is like what is going on

864
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:51,600
all right so two weeks uh two weeks later on june 12th uh because of some sandbox uh because

865
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:57,280
of the huge backlash since one two and three were resubmitted um and and there was some

866
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:02,240
technical issues with snapshot happened okay fine so sips form five ended up closing before

867
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:10,400
the resubmissions of sips one two and three which closed uh june 13th it passed 89 yes 93 yes and

868
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:16,000
64 yes so sip three passed uh only with 64 that was the budget

869
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:24,880
at this point the community is just bewildered they're flummoxed they are overwhelmed they're

870
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:32,080
mad they're angry all if you read the tweets and the discourse it is brutal it is so brutal

871
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:38,080
people don't know who serial is because he just came out of the woodwork as the dow administrator

872
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:44,640
people know who seb is but we mostly don't know who the sandbox dow admin uh the sandbox dow

873
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:52,080
special counsel is except for some high profile names like shannon snow who is world of women and

874
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:57,360
and um and yatsu who's chairman of and mocha brands but we don't know who federic montagnot is

875
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,960
you would know if you were really really delved into the depths of it you'd know that he helped

876
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:12,160
launch some uh some nft projects connected to arian arian arian um and so you might know

877
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:19,680
shannon snow because of world of women um but you wouldn't you wouldn't know uh most of you

878
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,400
wouldn't know the rest of the advisory board uh some of which are deeply involved as studios

879
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:32,240
um but as a regular gamer you you don't know most of these people so confusion and anger

880
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:41,600
all over the place right at the urgency a two-week period a two-week period we suddenly have a 15.5

881
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:48,000
million sand budget to start voting on pushing sips out to business proposals business interests

882
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:55,920
and oh by the way we learned not only is there a a bunch of sips that are ready for us to vote

883
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:00,160
and bringing up the dow into existence but also

884
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:10,640
there are tons of sips right on its heels for people who knew about the dow ahead of time

885
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:17,840
uh mostly the sandbox inner circle of the the say inner circle it's not the right word the sandbox

886
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:26,640
company team so they knew about it so they had written a bunch of sips a bunch of sips that

887
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:33,520
that were now going to be put to vote over the course of the the sip timeline and we got a bunch

888
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:42,720
of them the the carbon capture red cross magic palette sip number six was the first community one

889
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:52,560
that passed uh staking budget that was a that was a sandbox team sip sandbox ambassador that was a

890
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:58,400
sandbox team sip sandbox academy that was a community one by mark bago uh that was he's

891
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:05,120
passed fortunately but also the ones that didn't pass that were given to us was the game jan

892
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:11,120
parasitity jam uh nft collection nomination by arthmore i love arthmore by the way i really hope

893
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:18,720
he resubmits i think uh i think just the anger of the initial dow phase overroad the reasonable

894
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:23,920
approach that arthmore and his team were going to bring to the sandbox nft collection that was going

895
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,520
to be transferred to the dow i don't know if that actually happened i need to follow up with that

896
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,480
um but then the blockchain events so all the 2024 events that were happening in asia and latin america

897
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:37,920
that was not passed nft evolution that was a community one and then resizing was mine

898
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:43,200
and metaverse and disability hiring was a community by community set by meta futura but the

899
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:50,400
vast majority of them the vast majority of them were sandbox team sips who knew about it in the

900
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:59,440
the many months ahead of the announcement of the doubt and the in may okay so all of that to say

901
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:08,560
people are angry people are so angry so angry that many are refusing to participate there some of

902
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:13,840
them are just voting no just because they they don't like what's happening they they feel that

903
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:20,560
there are there's a conspiracy going on that whales not even whales at this point the inner

904
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:29,280
team of the sandbox is controlling things people are hearing founders and and and directors and

905
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:34,400
admins don't know what's going on who's who's connected to what now we do have a much better

906
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:41,040
idea but that urgency so people are digging in their heels say we need more talking all right

907
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:48,400
and also turns out um there's a lot of overlap so in my research when i started talking i'm not

908
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:54,000
talking when i started and researching and analyzing what's happened turns out a lot of

909
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:59,040
people know each other right so if you delve into the work history of a lot of the people involved

910
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:05,840
especially in the cayman islands it's a small island it's a small island a lot of people used

911
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:11,360
to work in the same companies so a lot of them know each other even though they're in different

912
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:18,240
entities you know they grew up on the same island they you know georgetown seems to be a hub of

913
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:26,160
business activity a lot of people know each other also same street hqs that's an eyebrow razor

914
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:32,960
for sure if you are into a secret illuminati cabal perspective same street hqs even though

915
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:38,480
they're different legal entities also offshore businesses just kind of read wrong to begin with

916
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:44,720
you're you're doing all the offshore accounting offshore legal entities it's just too too much

917
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:52,320
obscurity ambiguity nondisclosures and and that just breeds resentment and suspicion that there's

918
01:13:52,320 --> 01:14:00,240
a secret illuminati cabal going on and also there's the the old wisdom of absolute power

919
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:07,040
of absolute power corrupts absolutely which is basically saying that there's a sliding scale for

920
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:12,000
when you initially start out really good you want this great big thing to happen but then all of

921
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:16,400
these different interests start creeping in different people with different authorities

922
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:21,840
different different monies and wallets that they're they're wanting to to see happen their own

923
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:27,360
interests don't necessarily align with the the intent of what was originally founded for a dao

924
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:36,960
or an organization and then that that sliding scale happens to greed and opportunism so you

925
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:43,280
would be forgiven if you thought that there was a secret illuminati cabal afoot because there wasn't

926
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:48,720
transparency on what happened there wasn't an there there was a huge excessive urgency for people

927
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:54,800
to vote things into into being that they didn't understand lots of overlap between people working

928
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:59,920
together in the previous histories they're in the same place for a lot of the key parts of the dao

929
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:05,760
you're hearing the word offshore businesses cayman islands some sorts of things that that some

930
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:13,840
unfortunate things have happened in terms of high profile fraud, waste, and abuse scandals and then

931
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:20,800
the old adage absolute power corrupts absolutely and that sliding scale to to personal greed and

932
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:28,240
personal opportunism so that's on one side i just spent a long time talking about it but i want to

933
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:38,560
give it its due course because i believe that some of this is true there wasn't transparency

934
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:44,160
there was an excessive urgency they are on the same street quite literally they are offshore

935
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:50,240
businesses when it comes to the sandbox limited and all of the other corporations at play right

936
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:56,000
there are offshore businesses and the only one that i won't ascribe it into is the sliding scale

937
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:01,760
to greed and opportunism while that is generally a rule in history i won't attribute that to the

938
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:08,160
people involved you know they're people just like us and if you delve down deep into it i think what

939
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:19,520
you'll find is that that a lot of them are new to sand fam the dao administrator is new to sand fam

940
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:27,440
i found no record of him being involved in the sandbox family before the dao right so uh also

941
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:32,080
kind of new to dao a lot of people are new to dao i'm new to dao i didn't even know dao was before

942
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:39,760
may but the people the dao itself uh the very first dao was in 2016 called the dao it was based

943
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:47,440
on the ethereum chain but daos were not a big thing back then and i was there in 2016 uh not

944
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:54,720
with the dao but daos were not part of it you know nfts didn't even really become a thing until 2020

945
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:00,960
so people didn't really even know what daos were and so most of us knew the daos so a lot of the

946
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:06,800
people who are staffed also their work histories looked like they weren't they weren't haven't been

947
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:15,440
in daos very long either some of them looked very new to web three as in they were in normal

948
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:21,520
industry whether it be banking or traditional finance or just web two product development

949
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:28,400
not web three product development so they're new and also the whole small island thing kind

950
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:34,240
of gives off a small town feel very much a if you grew up in a small town you know this if you grew

951
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:39,840
up in a city you might not small towns people know people you know the the person who owns the

952
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:46,640
convenience store down the road is the you know their their brother is the or their sister or

953
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:51,680
their aunt or cousin is you know works as an administrator in the local school and that person

954
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:58,960
is that person's cousin is part of the local pta like their things just kind of happen because

955
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:06,480
each person is their own person and just because you have a principal of a school who has cousins

956
01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:14,160
with a bank owner down the street doesn't mean that there's suspicious activity going on it just

957
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:21,760
means that there aren't there isn't much biodiversity let's call it family names like you would find in

958
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:27,680
a city where your next door neighbor has a different name a different lineage is not related

959
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:34,800
to you whatsoever in a small town many times next door that's where your cousins live so it's just

960
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:43,680
a different way of life between a small town and and and small and big town feel but also more

961
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:49,200
importantly i've learned through owning my own businesses and and being a serial entrepreneur

962
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:56,240
for over 10 years now publishing novels to amazon music to itunes it's so easy once you figure it

963
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:02,400
out and you and you look in to the details of you can publish your first novel to amazon within 48

964
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:08,240
hours and it's as easy as creating a facebook page it once you put in the hard work of creating the

965
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:15,840
novel like writing it um but actual publishing is not hard at all so what i found is through my own

966
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:21,680
i used to own a gaming subsidiary all sorts of stuff that's how i was able to publish experiences

967
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:28,240
and come to the table ready made to help the sandbox game uh through game maker and box editor

968
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:34,240
and all that what you figure out is that trust is key to business you you go with who you trust with

969
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:38,800
there are a lot of stories out there a lot of people who say they're going to do something for

970
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:44,160
you say they're going to build you a product um a lot of us know in the dow even proposals people

971
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:49,520
say they're gonna they're gonna build the biggest bestest thing and all they need is a low cost fee

972
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:56,400
of two million bucks right trust is key if you're gonna spend the money especially the sort of money

973
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:04,080
that a dow wants to spend any indication the eight coin dow used to have a billion dollar budget a

974
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:11,120
billion dollars 1.3 billion right if you if you math out its token supply and tokenomics and

975
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:16,720
it's billion dollars and it's been spending hundreds of millions of dollars

976
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:21,520
hundreds of millions writing checks for hundreds of millions tens of millions

977
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:27,840
big numbers right trust is key you want to know who you're doing business with because just

978
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:35,760
it's scams aren't just a web three thing scams happen fraud waste abuse you want to make sure

979
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:40,320
you trust the person that you're that you're about to ink a contract with for them to provide

980
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:46,960
services it's it's not just that it's reputation it's all sorts of things um but also what i did

981
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:53,920
not know i like many people used to think that offshore businesses were related to like people

982
01:20:53,920 --> 01:21:00,720
who want to hide stuff like if you watch the show billions or whatever that offshore businesses

983
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,440
where you go to hide things uh turned out that's actually not the case if you if you educate

984
01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:11,520
yourself on the pros of the what the cayman business environment offers you it offers

985
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:18,400
it offers flexibility it offers a neutral territory for you to do business with people like

986
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:26,640
if you have a person in the united states and a person in france you what territory what what

987
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:32,720
territory do you do business in where is your legal entity supposed to be if you do it in france are

988
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:37,680
you are you worried that the french government uh with language you don't speak will will show

989
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:44,320
favoritism toward your french partner or whatever so where do you do it maybe you do it in a neutral

990
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:50,000
territory that will look at both partners the same and not favor one or the other the cayman

991
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:59,920
islands offers such an arrangement and it's very very tax lenient meaning it doesn't for the people

992
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:05,280
doing business in caymans or has a business project with caymans you do not have to pay taxes

993
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:11,440
on cayman island stuff unless you're american if you're an american you are taxed globally so those

994
01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:17,760
are american tax laws but in cayman tax laws if you are if you are a country that's not

995
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:23,440
taxed in another country that's not taxed and you do business in the caymans you're not taxed

996
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:29,280
because neither your country nor the cayman islands requires taxing of personal income

997
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:36,240
personal income capital gains none of that is taxed so i did not really know the know that

998
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:46,160
and that's and also you can you can form a business in about 24 hours to a week i was looking at some

999
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:51,680
of the websites are specialized and staying up a business in a short amount of time so you have a

1000
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:56,800
short amount of time and you have a very friendly business environment where your taxes are minimal

1001
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:06,320
to none that is uh that's a lot of reasons to to do business in a place like that especially if you're

1002
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:13,840
a dao um where you have a lot of communities involved a lot of stakeholders a lot of people

1003
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:19,760
who demand different things of you and and you want flexibility for how to operate a business

1004
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:27,360
and in a stable business environment um so that brings us to number seven the navigate foundation

1005
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:37,760
the foundation companies act of 2017 and the company act of 20 2003 i mentioned earlier that

1006
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:45,200
the foundation sandbox dial foundation wasn't just a noun describing the the sandbox down

1007
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:53,040
now it's an adjective that describes a type of corporation similar to an llc or a c corp or an

1008
01:23:53,040 --> 01:24:00,320
s corp in the america in america it is a type of corporation it's type of company i'm going to

1009
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:05,520
cover this in my next podcast episode i'm not going to delve into it much here we're really

1010
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:10,160
talking about what happened and the only reason i'm bringing it up now is because of what reasonable

1011
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:17,600
people would do there is a massive amount of flexibility afforded a web three company through

1012
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:24,960
something called a foundation company which is what the sound the sandbox dao is sandbox dao

1013
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:31,840
foundation the sandbox foundation is a type of foundation company and with it it gives you a

1014
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:44,000
lot of flexibilities that afford you um the ability to have a a dao ecosystem with changing special

1015
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:49,680
council members and advisory board members and changing founders and leaders and a changing

1016
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:57,360
process for spending money and all of that has to be very nimble right so what i learned is that

1017
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:03,360
when i read the foundation companies act and the companies act 2003 there is a lot of flexibility

1018
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:10,320
and speed it offers you a lot of speed to act and then it offers you a lot of flex a lot of

1019
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:17,920
openness for taxing and not being taxed so there's just a lot of what looked like good reasons why

1020
01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:24,880
why we we ended up in the cayman islands definitely not the only place we could have been we could have

1021
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:29,360
been in the u.s we could have been in france france we could have been anywhere really but

1022
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:35,920
they decided on cayman i'm islands because of the pros of that business environment

1023
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:46,720
and those acts that support it and last but certainly not least and sebga says in the chat

1024
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:53,360
and france it's pretty complex you you can even not mint an asset with a random rarity for the

1025
01:25:53,360 --> 01:26:02,560
same price okay so yeah in france it's pretty complex he says so ockham's razor what is ockham's

1026
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:11,440
razor ockham's razor is a principle of theory constructed evaluation according to which among

1027
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:17,360
other things being equal it posits fewer entities or fewer kinds of entities are preferred to

1028
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:24,160
explanations that posit more what does that mean it means that the simplest explanation is usually

1029
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:31,600
the right one all right so what does that mean here let's just think for a second right you're

1030
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:40,000
seb you have a thriving ecosystem you you are responsible to hundreds of thousands of token

1031
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:47,600
holders how do you stand up a corporation which has i'm sorry corporation how do you stand up

1032
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:54,560
a dow which has been played with scams and rugs pulls and all sorts of stuff how do you avoid that

1033
01:26:56,480 --> 01:27:05,360
so what do you do you hire people that you think can get the job done and those people hire people

1034
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:13,680
who are knowledgeable having previously done things before in that arena in an environment that looks

1035
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:19,520
open to all of the rules and associations and stuff that has to happen in a dow with

1036
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:27,760
improvement proposals and spending budget money so simply put ockham's razor the most what i thought

1037
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:35,440
about it the most easy explanation there was was that seb wanted the dow all right seb wanted this

1038
01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:41,280
done the dow created so he hired someone that he found locally someone who was in france with him

1039
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:49,680
that person is new to both the sand fam and dow's and so he hired people around him who could help

1040
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:58,720
him build it that led us to the cayman islands that led us to san ox dow foundation company

1041
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:04,560
are there people trying to pull the strings i don't think so everyone that i found and i found a lot

1042
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:14,800
of them had some sort of ockham's razor simple reason for being there many of them had public

1043
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:20,320
blogs that you can read they've been in many open twitter spaces that you can listen to

1044
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:28,080
um the people the carton group the cartan as they call themselves they have an open twitter

1045
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:33,200
space and marcom's and and you can listen to their reasons for how they ran the eight point dow

1046
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:41,040
you can listen to it and it's excellent knowledge a lot of edu a lot of education going on there

1047
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:46,160
that tells you why the cayman's island why they're doing business in the cayman's island

1048
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:54,080
they they go through it step by step as this the dow's are new dow's are getting sued which they

1049
01:28:54,080 --> 01:29:02,640
are by the way the u.s government sued a dow uh and and they won by the way the u.s government

1050
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:12,800
sued a dow and they won so the it's not obvious how you should do a dow so you hire people that

1051
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:20,640
you know to go do things that you need done and those people hire people they know in places that

1052
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:27,440
they know they can get it done that's how you end up with the dow foundation company in the cayman's

1053
01:29:27,440 --> 01:29:32,720
staffed by corporations in the cayman's who are all next door to each other

1054
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:39,680
i could be wrong there there could be a secret illuminati cabal thing going on here

1055
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:47,200
that's absolutely that could be the case i don't think so though i don't think that's what's

1056
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:54,560
happening i think when you you get down to it it looks like this

1057
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:59,920
it looks like this it's reasonable people doing reasonable things

1058
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:07,440
that's my opinion right now based on the analysis i did of the facts there could be new facts that

1059
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:11,920
come to light in the future which would change that analysis and it might weigh this left side

1060
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:18,240
a lot heavier who knows but i'm not going to start there i didn't start there when i when i

1061
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:25,040
went down this road and i didn't end there i was suspicious oh absolutely i was suspicious

1062
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:30,720
there a lot of this red especially as the red started mounting especially when i got to number

1063
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:36,800
four when they were on the same street and in the same building like oh gosh could you could it look

1064
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:46,480
any worse um but but the ockham's razor it and then you look at all the reasons why it's a good

1065
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:53,040
idea and and i think it weighs heavier than the bad idea the bad stuff looked like a pretty

1066
01:30:53,040 --> 01:31:03,040
reasonable thing okay so here we are again the dow relationship map are we done almost

1067
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:09,440
i might want to stop this and then restart it because there is one more thing that we need to

1068
01:31:09,440 --> 01:31:14,560
go over and this this is incidental to us because it kind of gives you a crystal ball

1069
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:20,720
um so in the beginning i said the eight point down right so the eight coin down was implicated in

1070
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:27,440
all of this mostly through the carton group now why is that important to focus on because right now

1071
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:35,840
and the reason why all this is happening is because of some things that happened as of as of late in

1072
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:42,240
the eight point down the eight point down is in crisis it went from 1.3 billion dollars to under

1073
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:49,440
to under to about 100 million in two years it spent over a billion dollars

1074
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:56,720
and most people don't have anything to show for it they don't believe the community right now doesn't

1075
01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:02,080
believe they have anything to show for it they're they're in crisis mode okay so why is that important

1076
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:08,880
to us well as you can see their tech stack looks similar to our tech stack their foundation looks

1077
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:14,000
similar to our foundation the only difference is their foundation documents aren't public like ours

1078
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:20,960
are so i applaud i applaud thank you so much to the dow admin team for making those documents

1079
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:27,520
publicly available where i can scrutinize it shoot point questions throw spears i want to understand

1080
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:32,160
right i want to understand we all want to understand everyone wants to understand right but

1081
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:36,480
they've coined dow doesn't understand their documents aren't public i couldn't find their

1082
01:32:36,480 --> 01:32:40,720
their articles of incorporation or their memo of incorporation or their constitution anything like

1083
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:49,120
that right but they're in crisis they went from 1.3 billion to 100 million and some things came

1084
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:55,040
to light as of recently as of late that thrust all this into emergency mode for them now what

1085
01:32:55,040 --> 01:33:04,320
am i talking about before i get into this pretty deeply i need to make a disclosure right so ape

1086
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:10,400
466 was proposed by derek derek smart as he's known he's an analytical guy he's been on this

1087
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:21,360
podcast before okay so he was podcast not long ago podcast number 25 been on the outside shaping

1088
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:26,800
the community showing what can be better what we can do better how we can adapt how we can grow

1089
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:32,800
and those who are coming into this leadership positions can better learn a lot of people don't

1090
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:37,440
seem to understand that you can actually do better from the outside then so that's that's derek very

1091
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:45,760
analytical person love and the death i think he's he done wonders so that's first disclosure is

1092
01:33:46,480 --> 01:33:52,640
the person who authored this that led me down this path that the need to do this episode started

1093
01:33:52,640 --> 01:34:03,200
with the publishing of 8 466 which was a proposal to close all non-essential working groups so the

1094
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:10,320
spawned a huge kerfuffle a a big spirited discussion among the eight coin dow participants

1095
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:18,240
okay and during bulls on the block two weeks ago it led to a q a with one of the stewards

1096
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:24,000
all right so this was in twitter space bulls on the block i talk about them at every podcast when

1097
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:29,680
i go over spaces i talk about the discord the dow forums twitter youtube i also go over

1098
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:34,560
bogaverse hall on mondays bulls on the block on saturdays coffee with captain monday through

1099
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:39,760
friday whale members on tuesdays was natalie digital and san fam cafe monthly right so i'm

1100
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:44,240
connected to these people by attending their stuff listening to them i'm plugging myself

1101
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:50,800
into the dow communities not just sandbox but i'm only really involved in the sandbox dow okay

1102
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:58,800
i'm not really involved in the other ones so um in bulls on the block in bulls on the block

1103
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:03,680
a couple weeks ago during the october 12th one there was a q a that happened and that q a was

1104
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:09,200
led by me i wasn't expecting to do a q a but one of the stewards came on and people were really

1105
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:18,320
confused what's going on with 466 aip 466 and what happened and uh what started happening was i

1106
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:24,320
started detecting that a lot of people did not know who who was doing what there was a massive

1107
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:31,280
amount of confusion with the special counsel the ape foundation all this sort of stuff and as we

1108
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,720
started doing the q a i discovered that a lot of what they were talking about was the

1109
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:40,720
same as the sandbox dow and that this was a lesson learned that we could take for ourselves because

1110
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:51,200
we could end up in the same boat as them two years from now so that pushed up my my analysis of the

1111
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:55,840
sandbox dow and that was a lesson learned that we could take for ourselves because we could end up

1112
01:35:55,840 --> 01:36:04,960
in the same boat as them two years from now so that pushed up my my analysis of the sandbox

1113
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:13,440
foundation reading of the articles and figuring out who was what and where okay important thing

1114
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:22,640
to um important thing to to think about so that led me down this path two weeks ago i i made a

1115
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:28,720
twitter post saying uh i learned some things i'm seeing some things over an ape coin dow i'm

1116
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:34,080
concerned that's going to happen in our dow and i need to investigate this so that's what i did

1117
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:42,240
two weeks ago i started this i i dug this back up from when i started it about sand out podcast five

1118
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:48,560
and i dusted it off and i just went to work i went to straight up googling down to the nth degree

1119
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:53,360
figuring out what i could figure out just start piecing it all together and that's what led to

1120
01:36:53,360 --> 01:37:03,120
this podcast yeah so i was researching the sandbox dow and i was surprised to find myself back at aip

1121
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:08,720
one and as we learned the reason why i went back to aip one was because of the connection to the

1122
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:14,400
kartan group didn't know what the kartan group was didn't even really know it was part of the

1123
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:20,880
dow admin team until i started doing my research okay so why is this important to the disclosure

1124
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:31,600
here's why um i mentioned this from time to time i'm actually i'm an ape i'm an ape holder

1125
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:40,880
i i have a monkey jpeg so i don't really do much though i'm not involved in the ape coin dow i

1126
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:48,880
think i might have voted on one or two and there's 400 i think they're at 468 aips by now i think i've

1127
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:55,280
only voted on one or two of them i i just not it's not my arena that i want to be in the sandbox is

1128
01:37:55,280 --> 01:38:03,200
where i want to be the sandbox has the game side the business end of it oh all that i'm not in

1129
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:09,360
communications with the ape coin foundation or i'm sorry the ape foundation or the ape special

1130
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:16,560
council so i don't talk to them i am trying to interview one of them because of connections with

1131
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:23,200
anamoka brands and how i want to learn from their experience and i think that the special they

1132
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:26,720
sandboxed out can learn but i'm not in communication with them right now they haven't

1133
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:34,080
i haven't been able to secure an interview with any of them i have less than 108 right so i'm not

1134
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:41,520
monetarily incentivized here for the eight point down i am a bull on the block i have a bull

1135
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:44,000
so that's that one down here

1136
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:55,200
and i am a mocha so i have this right here so anamoka brands what we talked about earlier they

1137
01:38:55,200 --> 01:39:01,840
founded the mocha verse which has now the mocha dow it's about to launch i am a mocha so i will

1138
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:07,520
be a little bit more involved in the mocha dow because they are a key voter in both ape coin

1139
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:14,480
dow and in sandbox style and i will go over that in the future episode where i go over the the

1140
01:39:14,480 --> 01:39:22,720
sandbox down the ecosystem episode but i am i am almost exclusively sand fam i spend all my time

1141
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:30,320
in the sandbox ecosystem i'm a sand fam through and through um yeah so those are my disclosure

1142
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:38,960
statements right there so let's get into answering the question that i i said i would uh help out ape

1143
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:43,840
foundations because as i went through the research a lot of stuff intersected with them so let's um

1144
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:49,200
let's quickly go through this i'm not going to spend a ton of time on it i did not research it

1145
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:56,160
to the nth degree like i did the sandbox stuff but a lot of what i researched it led me to the

1146
01:39:56,160 --> 01:40:03,360
conclusion of um the question who is running the eight point down who is running the ape foundation

1147
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:11,840
and how is it all pieced together okay so let's do this if you are a ape person a coin dow

1148
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:19,520
oh also um when i said i was a mocha uh allegedly the the apes have a problem monkey jpegs have a

1149
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:24,320
problem with mochas i'm not really sure what the problem is i guess i don't spend a lot of time

1150
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:31,440
in the mocha verse or in a coin dow um so i don't really know but yeah there's there's some tension

1151
01:40:31,440 --> 01:40:43,360
there not really sure why so carton group aip1 aip183 ape foundation special counsel a coin dow

1152
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:50,480
tech stack what is going on what's happening um that's that q a that happened two weeks ago

1153
01:40:50,480 --> 01:40:55,600
and botv pulls in the block that happened because so many apes didn't and they went out didn't know

1154
01:40:55,600 --> 01:41:01,760
what's happening and so they were i i got kudos for that that q a which is basically me asking

1155
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:06,560
question answer of one of the stewards to figure out what's happening and then realizing that oh

1156
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:12,320
my gosh sandbox dow foundation is structured very similar to this we should do something about it

1157
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:20,320
now while we have the benefit of time and lessons learned from apes um so in my research it led me

1158
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:26,400
through the ape coin dow and in there i think i figured out what was happening what's going on

1159
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:33,840
so it all begins with ape one let me change the right so we're just gonna we're gonna go through

1160
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:45,840
this all right so it all begins with aip1 the very very first ape proposal to the ape coin dow it was

1161
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:52,960
submitted by the carton group cartan excuse me cartan group back in march of 2022 now what's

1162
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:59,040
important about this proposal is that this document proposes the structure of a decentralization

1163
01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:05,760
autonomous organization that will be governed by the holders of the ape coin dow okay and then some

1164
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:11,680
other things then it gets into the ape foundation which will serve as a coin dow community and be

1165
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:18,960
governed by it it aims to be the heart of our gaming blah blah blah okay keep going the foundation

1166
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:27,920
serves the ape coin dow and fostering a community okay it wants to launch a product

1167
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:34,400
and to achieve this it's going to participate in idea submission commentary all this sort of stuff

1168
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:40,800
so this is how the ape coin dow comes about it is established all the guidelines um all the

1169
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:46,240
board members may be removed and replaced a lot of this language is found in this in the same said

1170
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:52,320
the same way in the the sandbox foundation talks about the total cost conflicts of interest all

1171
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:57,760
sorts of things it starts coming up with the t terms so aip's there it is right there establishing

1172
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:04,640
aip1 categories brands proposals all this stuff keep going keep going keep going keep going

1173
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:15,360
proposal process ape idea ape draft analysis report moderation tagging admin review

1174
01:43:16,720 --> 01:43:23,920
live aip a process not dissimilar from our own final aip implementation key phrase right

1175
01:43:24,480 --> 01:43:29,120
specifications okay keep going keep going all right here we go

1176
01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:38,960
all right here we go overall cost total ape two million bucks two million us dollars is what was

1177
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:45,040
paid to the kartan group to set up to come up with the aip process everything you see here

1178
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:54,240
non-recurring costs for the first six months for the kartan group 150 000 us dollars a month

1179
01:43:54,240 --> 01:44:00,880
okay that's a key term that's key number that's going to buy the ape coin dow a discourse

1180
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:10,880
enterprise account also compensation for um ape foundation board compensation each board member

1181
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:16,800
receives 125 000 us dollars for the six month term all right so that's that's that's quite a bit of

1182
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:24,400
money so the key thing here is that this aip established the kartan group as the dow administrator

1183
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:28,560
for the ape foundation

1184
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:38,960
to figure out how to purchase domains legal fees dow administration setup

1185
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:47,280
discourse out of pocket expenses okay so that's aip1 then aip183 rolls around about six months

1186
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:57,600
later when the renewal comes up the kartan needs to renew get renewed they're only on contract for

1187
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:02,560
like six eight months all right so they come up with the renew and in the renewal they have

1188
01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:10,400
our abstract the current the kartan group trusted partners as outlined in a1 over the past eight

1189
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,120
months we had the opportunity to serve the community and push forward the dow's long-term

1190
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:18,720
vision we talked thousands of community members made new friends and collaborated blah blah blah

1191
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:27,200
okay so here you go author and team description brian tang is one of the co-founders of kartan

1192
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:34,080
he gives you his profile and has lots of experience okay so motivations

1193
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:41,040
keep on going to motivations and then we get to the rationale foundation is a steward

1194
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:47,680
of ape coin and the eight coin down members and its primary goal is to promote a diverse and

1195
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:52,720
self-sustaining ecosystem foundation we're talking about the ape foundation right the legal entity

1196
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:57,280
uses the ecosystem fund to meet its objectives and follow an approved governance process

1197
01:45:58,240 --> 01:46:03,360
while ape coin dow members can make their voices heard through the voting process the foundation

1198
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:10,880
is ultimately a legal entity that requires a team to carry out its functions what are they talking

1199
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:19,840
about they're talking about the ape foundation registered in the cayman islands staffed by the

1200
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:29,120
kartan group and all of the other support staff and contracted service providers to help run

1201
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:38,800
that legal entity that's what they're talking about let's continue aip 183 reads under rationale

1202
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:43,120
these functions include facilitating decentralizing community-led governance

1203
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:48,000
administering the decisions of the dow that's a key thing here just because they're all

1204
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:53,760
approved you still have someone that's needed to administer it and administer it just means carry

1205
01:46:53,760 --> 01:47:00,640
it out so not only the aip aip author is responsible for administering the decisions

1206
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:06,480
or carrying out a proposal you also have a whole back end a legal people all sorts of people

1207
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:12,320
running the legal entity that has to now help administer it as well

1208
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:19,600
continuing on and being responsible for day-to-day administration bookkeeping project management

1209
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:24,240
and other operational tasks that ensure the community ideas have the support they need to

1210
01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:33,920
become a reality what are they saying there they're saying you are paying us to run the legal part of

1211
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:45,600
this dow so that you can participate in the daily drama and the daily activities of proposals

1212
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:55,040
all the spaces the drama of the discussions the heated debates on discord which is paid for and

1213
01:47:55,040 --> 01:48:02,480
administered by the ape dow ape foundation and all of the other support staff and all of the other

1214
01:48:02,480 --> 01:48:11,760
by the ape dow ape foundation people that was a fascinating read and this was before i even knew

1215
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:17,040
what foundation company was before i even knew much about how the sandbox was structured i i

1216
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:23,840
looked at this and i said holy smokes um i guess i was naive i didn't know that there was really

1217
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:31,200
a legal entity behind a dow so i'll say that out loud there is a legal entity which is a company

1218
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:39,840
a corporation that runs a dow it runs it it's responsible to a government it pays a tax

1219
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:50,400
it does all sorts of stuff to exist that was news to me okay because i run my own companies in the

1220
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:55,280
past i started connecting dots because if you have a company that means you have founding members you

1221
01:48:55,280 --> 01:49:01,520
have directors you have office as you have secretaries you have shareholders you have

1222
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:08,560
stakeholders you have budgets you have filing with local government requirements compliance

1223
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:15,040
standards regulatory issues all this it just starts to balloon all of the stuff required

1224
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:23,840
to run a dow if it's a legal entity all right so then this aip 183 which is a proposal for

1225
01:49:23,840 --> 01:49:31,520
the kartan group to renew its contract with the with the eight coin dow and then expand some of

1226
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:38,400
the operation because what they began aip one has changed a bit since aip 183 right so they've expanded

1227
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:45,920
they list all the things that they've done right so beautiful beautiful they've administered a

1228
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:56,640
snapshot for 5 000 voters right so we have 2000 okay 27 000 total votes have been made we've made

1229
01:49:56,640 --> 01:50:10,160
9 000 and over 174 million voting power we have a lot less than that i think i think the last count

1230
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:16,160
was i don't remember i have to go back oh wait wait wait wait i know where i have a slide on this

1231
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:20,880
i have a slide that calculated the total voting power because i needed to know that for one of my

1232
01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:32,480
one of my things what is ours oh oops ours is 779 million so almost a billion voting power

1233
01:50:32,480 --> 01:50:39,280
for the sandbox anyways neither here nor there for the apes so they have 174 million voting power

1234
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:49,120
that's been exercised across over 183 proposals at this point and they've implemented discourse

1235
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:55,440
topics so they've they've done forum moderation they've done restructuring they've done proposal

1236
01:50:55,440 --> 01:51:03,040
reviews they've done all sorts of stuff okay so they're they're trying to make their case for why

1237
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:12,880
their contracts should be renewed okay reporting insights all sorts of stuff all sorts of stuff

1238
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:17,280
corporate operations this one was interesting processing of invoices and payments and

1239
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:23,200
reimbursements uh bookkeeping and preparation so when an aip author wants to get paid who do they

1240
01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:28,240
go to they're getting paid by the ape foundation which manages that has custody of the wallets

1241
01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:36,160
that's fascinating cool um not dissimilar for how the dow administrator clarified earlier in a forum

1242
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:43,840
post uh that that they have access and custodial and custodial ship of wallets as well to pay

1243
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:50,160
successful sip authors so magic palette how is magic palette being paid by a treasury wallet

1244
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:56,400
that it has that the sandbox style has custody of and specifically i don't know this for certain

1245
01:51:56,400 --> 01:52:01,680
but it's certain to look like the ape that's giving me the sandbox dow foundation has custody

1246
01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:09,040
of that wallet in the cayman islands probably cold storage wallet who knows whatever it is whatever

1247
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:20,080
their solution is uh one of the one of the spaces that i listened to for the apes the the

1248
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:26,480
the the kartan group explained their custodial ship solution that they architected for the ape

1249
01:52:26,480 --> 01:52:30,720
foundation so that was having cold wallets and hot wallets and all sorts of stuff to

1250
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:39,120
have a protected secure solution to guard against hacks and to pay people monies that the dow grants

1251
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:44,240
this is actually starting to look like a very sophisticated system a sophisticated system that

1252
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:50,880
a sophisticated system that can that can rep be represented in a court of law that can have good

1253
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:58,400
record keeping and be compliant with government standards bringing it out of the shadows of of

1254
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:06,400
web 3 early years into the the well-structured and public approach that needs to happen for web 3

1255
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:14,240
entities to coexist among our web 2 friends right so it's starting to look pretty good

1256
01:53:15,440 --> 01:53:22,000
specifications lots of lots of things they want to do the management of the ape coin dot eat ens

1257
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:29,840
domain so if you're wondering who owns ape coin dot eth it was the ape foundation is the ape

1258
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:37,440
foundation maybe we'll get to that managing all sorts of quickbooks all sorts of things if you

1259
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:46,240
run quickbooks for your own company ape foundation also had a quickbooks to um to google google

1260
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:51,440
workspace for collaboration productivity i mean all of these things just tell you how it's run

1261
01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:58,720
the ape foundation right and then they were going to implement all right so the timeline was shall

1262
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:04,480
go into effect one january 2023 for a period of 12 months all right so this was the proposal

1263
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:12,080
to put all this into place this was in december of 2022 to go into effect one january the community

1264
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:23,760
fees were going to be 150 000 a month plus excuse me 250 000 for increased expenditures and the

1265
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:34,080
reason why is detailed in the in the plan the expanded operations all right now why can't i

1266
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:45,760
just end the story here because it was rejected the ape coin dow foundation rejected ape aip 183

1267
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:56,960
and it it discontinued cartan services as the ape coin dow administrator and the ape foundation

1268
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:08,720
steward uh-oh when you discontinue the services of the entity that runs your dow the back end of it

1269
01:55:08,720 --> 01:55:14,400
so that all you have to do is log into website and connect to dap and then connect your wallet

1270
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:20,800
and vote with that wallet and then the aip author gets the the yes or no vote and if it's yes and

1271
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:28,320
they go get to do the thing they're funded for all that front end was managed by these people

1272
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:37,920
the cartan group managing the back end so what do you do when that has a legal implication

1273
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:47,040
all right what did ape coin dow do that's the real question what it coined dow did was it started

1274
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:58,880
down a path of figuring itself out it had to oops wrong button it had to

1275
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:08,720
it had to bring order and reliability via further ecosystem further decentralization of its ecosystem

1276
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:22,000
otherwise known as the board aip aip 196 concluded a long journey of

1277
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:34,880
a huge amount of of analysis and and research into how is the ape coin dow run what is the

1278
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:41,120
ape foundation and what do they do all sorts of stuff there are some fascinating things if you

1279
01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:49,680
want to know how your dow is run read this proposal aip 196 and the reason why you want to read this

1280
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:59,840
is because aip 196 contains within it some key phrases that make clear why things are the way

1281
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:06,400
they are all right so let's open this up and it will become clear in a second

1282
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:12,720
did i get the right sections i think i did all right so let's open this up again

1283
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:19,840
i think i did all right so let's open this up again darn it i had all this properly linked

1284
01:57:21,280 --> 01:57:27,120
there we are boom all right so what are we searching for we're searching for the word legal

1285
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:33,920
if you control f the word legal and 196 you'll come across three very interesting phrases

1286
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:41,280
you ready oh there's only two that means i did not open the right ones hold on maybe this one

1287
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:48,960
this one this one this one okay cool so if you come across dang it there's still only two oh oh

1288
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:56,800
wait a minute that's because i need to open up rationale there we go okay so the authors are a

1289
01:57:56,800 --> 01:58:02,160
bunch of people who following the dismissal of cartan or at least the rejection of cartan's

1290
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:12,160
renewal took it upon themselves to investigate to to unravel this this quagmire that we found

1291
01:58:12,160 --> 01:58:18,640
ourselves in and the eight coin dow which was we rejected the services of our administrator and our

1292
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:24,240
legal protector so what do we do now we have to protect ourselves we have to administer ourselves

1293
01:58:24,240 --> 01:58:29,680
what does that actually mean it means you got a bunch of people who are and i think they called

1294
01:58:29,680 --> 01:58:34,480
it the most motivated right i think they used that word uh but what they basically said i think it

1295
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:40,320
was in the actual the transparency report where it said that they chose the mo they being the

1296
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:45,440
special counsel and then just people who stepped up right so they picked the people who stepped up

1297
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:49,040
who are motivated to figure this problem out and that end up being these authors right here

1298
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:58,720
sword of interest a alex amplify bad teeth board board ag brooklyn buddha dr jdr jerry halina lost

1299
01:58:58,720 --> 01:59:09,040
mantis nftc novo crypto red vulcan ssp vera will bam zastro bradley j mart wha pow wrong place 12

1300
01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:21,680
gauge coach mcgurk right so the this right here the board aip pretty cool name i think it's clever

1301
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:28,640
clever very clever all right so let's uh let's get into this why what happened and this is

1302
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:34,560
now we're getting very close to how is it our run there okay so you'll come across three terms

1303
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:39,520
for legal all right let's start with the first one and we're getting very close now to figuring

1304
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:50,160
this out to summarize this is um i'm reading from aip 196 board aip under the rationale section

1305
01:59:50,160 --> 01:59:55,680
is the first mention for legal it reads to summarize it's imperative to note that there

1306
01:59:55,680 --> 02:00:01,920
are certain roles and responsibilities that a cayman foundation administrator must legally fill

1307
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:10,080
for the ape coin dow the current dow administrator kartan is filling those roles as well as items

1308
02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:16,080
that are out of their initial scope of work talking about aip-1 there

1309
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:22,320
the aim of creating working groups is to fill in the areas that are out of scope

1310
02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:29,120
for the current dow administrator kartan and any future administrators of a coin dow going forward

1311
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:34,560
so here's something i want you to i want you to catch all right it's not just the word legal

1312
02:00:34,560 --> 02:00:40,640
that's important here in that third sentence it like i said i've been contract writing for a while

1313
02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:45,280
you need to pay attention to some qualifiers and there's a very key call for qualify here

1314
02:00:45,280 --> 02:00:53,920
and it's the words out of scope the aim of creating working groups is to fill in the areas

1315
02:00:54,880 --> 02:01:00,400
all right so to do the things that are out of scope for the current dow administrator all right

1316
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:10,000
so back up one more sentence kartan is filling roles that are in their scope of work

1317
02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:16,960
that are in their scope of work so this sentence this paragraph is basically saying in aip-1

1318
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:22,960
it established a scope of work all the things they must do right they must do bookkeeping

1319
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:30,160
they must manage the wallets they must pay people they must have legal representation

1320
02:01:30,160 --> 02:01:35,520
they must administer they must create the corporation they must maintain the corporation

1321
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:43,200
meeting minutes all these things that are required to maintain a company that's their scope of work

1322
02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:56,720
what this proposal is doing is to fill in the things that are out of scope of the things that

1323
02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:04,720
the cayman foundation administrator must legally fill in a simpler phrase it's saying this right

1324
02:02:04,720 --> 02:02:10,560
here we're only talking about things that a cayman foundation administrator cannot do

1325
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:21,760
all right so that that to me was was the first tell it was the first tell that said okay i need

1326
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:27,760
to be reading regulations in the cayman islands for how a main a company is maintained i need to

1327
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:33,760
be reading about the company's act and the foundation act and the company's management act

1328
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:37,920
there all these things which i'm going to go over in a future episode for the sandbox but for apes

1329
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:44,240
that was the first one so here's the second phrase in interim working group functions under three

1330
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:54,800
month mandate section paragraph two due to the corporate structure of the ape foundation it is

1331
02:02:54,800 --> 02:03:03,440
not legal for working group zero to take on all other responsibilities of any cayman foundation

1332
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:11,040
administrator all right so do you see the building blocks happening here this aip which was to bring

1333
02:03:11,040 --> 02:03:20,480
about order to the chaos created through 186 by rejecting kartan foundation as the administrator

1334
02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:26,000
this aip is to account for all the things that they can account for and the eight coin dow

1335
02:03:26,480 --> 02:03:33,360
legally speaking without the help of a cayman foundation administrator okay so then the question

1336
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:37,840
the obvious question is what are the duties of the cayman foundation administrator

1337
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:45,680
that can't be done by anyone but a cayman foundation administrator that's the obvious question right

1338
02:03:45,680 --> 02:03:57,200
here and then finally the third legal remark which was which was a forum comment within this post

1339
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:05,040
by one of the co-authors amplify he said in the first paragraph currently the way our dow is

1340
02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:12,800
structured is we consist of three parts that together form the dow we have the cayman islands

1341
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:18,720
foundation which is a legal entity in which kartan are the administrators we then have the special

1342
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:23,440
council and finally we have token holders all right so we're starting to open up now we're starting

1343
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:30,800
to open up in the final stretch he just identified the people where this is this is going to end up

1344
02:04:32,240 --> 02:04:38,160
you have kartan which is currently the administrator and come december uh become at the end of their

1345
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:44,240
their their contract is no longer so who is filling the administrator role we don't know yet

1346
02:04:46,400 --> 02:04:50,400
but then the special council what are they doing and the token holders what are they doing

1347
02:04:50,960 --> 02:04:57,280
they are going to do the things that they are able to do outside of the scope of work that the

1348
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:05,120
cayman administrators are the that they are legally responsible for doing

1349
02:05:05,120 --> 02:05:09,600
all right so you have two different groups two different things happening here the administrators

1350
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:15,760
and what's legally responsible within their scope of work by aip-1 and then everyone else in the

1351
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:19,840
ape coin dow to include the special council and the token holders who can do all the things that

1352
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:28,240
you can separate out from from the legality of managing the cayman's island foundation

1353
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:34,000
okay so if you're following with me we're about to get to the end because it's a very very rapid

1354
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:46,160
rapid resolution so that was aip-196 all right what happened after that is that there was an

1355
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:55,120
an rfp process there was an rfp process that that the working group zero ended up proposing

1356
02:05:55,120 --> 02:06:04,000
to the world saying we request a proposal for a cayman's island administrator for the ape

1357
02:06:04,000 --> 02:06:10,000
foundation so now that you've gone through everything in this episode all the the linkages

1358
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:16,560
to what what all this means i think you you should be able to understand what the what this phrase is

1359
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:24,160
really saying there are legal duties that the ape coin dow found and that the eight coin dow

1360
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:34,480
found and its people cannot do that is required to run the ape coin dow via the ape foundation

1361
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:43,520
and they are requesting a replacement submit a bid to replace the kartan group okay and it's

1362
02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:48,800
important to know um there are reasons for it basically i think it was because kartan was too

1363
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:55,120
expensive there was a lot of discussion about why it was so expensive and blah blah but kartan

1364
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:08,560
the rates charged by kartan um no hold on where's the word precluded oh okay um basically there's

1365
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:13,840
somewhere in the proposal that says kartan can still vote so if kartan had been unsatisfactory

1366
02:07:13,840 --> 02:07:20,560
or they had been kicked out for any sort of nefarious reasons or or they whatever um it

1367
02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:26,960
would have disbarred kartan from proposing but that didn't happen kartan was allowed to propose

1368
02:07:26,960 --> 02:07:37,680
which says that really it's it's monkey see monkey get on that one uh um when the ape coin dow rejected

1369
02:07:37,680 --> 02:07:45,520
the renewal it did it at face value for all the reasons that you saw too expensive and whatever

1370
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:58,160
else uh spoiler kartan group did not submit uh did not submit a bid and so here in the legal section

1371
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:04,480
what was the connection i finally made that made it all made sense under the legal part of the

1372
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:10,160
request for proposal it read facilitate the legal processes with respect to ape foundation

1373
02:08:10,160 --> 02:08:15,440
activities as determined by the director supervisor special counsel including but not limited to

1374
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:22,000
vendor contracts grant due diligence grant agreements trademarks are you are you seeing

1375
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:30,160
you see now this these are things that ape foundation i'm serious i'm sorry these are

1376
02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:38,560
things that the ape coin dow people voters cannot do for itself you must hire an administrator to do

1377
02:08:38,560 --> 02:08:46,400
it for you and then what is this legal section under there's that word scope of project work

1378
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:54,720
the scope of the project work for the new cayman administrator to replace kartan is to do all of

1379
02:08:54,720 --> 02:09:01,680
these things oh by the way treasury right there facilitate administration of treasury including

1380
02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:09,360
but not limited to risk mitigation custodial account management custodial means ownership of

1381
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:16,160
like physical possession so that that's ethereum addresses to hold eight point ens eight point nft

1382
02:09:16,160 --> 02:09:29,040
noses safe usage sales of a coin but most importantly well in regards to what we're

1383
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:36,160
talking about here the operations of things who is running what and where is uh director supervisor

1384
02:09:36,160 --> 02:09:43,920
special counsel they are running the ape foundation okay and that's because it's a foundation company

1385
02:09:43,920 --> 02:09:52,640
in the cayman islands staffed by people used to be kartan so that was brian tang and um and his

1386
02:09:52,640 --> 02:10:01,680
co-founder brandon carino carano this was all in the proposal it's not it's it's public um they've

1387
02:10:01,680 --> 02:10:12,240
done twitter spaces and in marcom so their their names are not uh hidden all right so to almost

1388
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:20,880
there the the tell for who is running the ape coin dow came in the bid that was submitted by the

1389
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:26,320
winning bidder of the rfp so you have an rfp or request for proposal then you have a bid

1390
02:10:27,040 --> 02:10:32,560
or a proposal whether they're not going to call it a proposal because to it confuses too much with

1391
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:41,600
aips so you have an rfp then you have a bid for that rfp all right so the winning bid came from

1392
02:10:41,600 --> 02:10:53,040
webslinger all right um hold on can i open it here please let me yes all right cool so the

1393
02:10:53,040 --> 02:11:02,000
winning bid came from webslinger in submission of ape foundation cayman administrator proposal

1394
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:08,960
role let's take a look at the executive summary the ape foundation's progression

1395
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:13,360
toward a decentralized future where the ecosystem is increasingly directed by a broad consortium

1396
02:11:13,360 --> 02:11:16,880
of stakeholders consortium just means group

1397
02:11:18,880 --> 02:11:25,360
mostly a group of partners is an exciting journey but also a complex one why is it complex

1398
02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:29,920
both the responsibilities that must be addressed during this journey as well as the potential

1399
02:11:29,920 --> 02:11:35,920
pitfalls are substantial meaning a dow can get sued what happens when dow gets sued we don't know

1400
02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:41,120
it's only been sued once or twice in history i think uh and and not every country agrees on how

1401
02:11:41,120 --> 02:11:48,160
to handle dow's continuing on and require timely and diligent administration and thoughtful

1402
02:11:48,160 --> 02:11:53,120
experienced counsel if the tremendous potential benefits of this journey to be realized the

1403
02:11:53,120 --> 02:12:01,280
webslinger team in conjunction with crest bridge cayman limited a regulated cayman service provider

1404
02:12:01,280 --> 02:12:07,520
a regulated cayman service provider is optimally positioned to assist the ape coin community

1405
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:17,360
through this journey thus we have introduced two key entities that will replace kartan

1406
02:12:18,800 --> 02:12:28,720
by winning the bid all right what else was of note here it was only a nine page bid it's pretty

1407
02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:34,960
pretty short all things considered i've had bids in my own contract career uh that were

1408
02:12:34,960 --> 02:12:42,720
thousands of pages literally thousands of pages most bids come in a hundred couple hundred pages

1409
02:12:42,720 --> 02:12:47,120
it's not uncommon for that especially when you start getting into um start getting into

1410
02:12:47,120 --> 02:12:55,120
large projects this is over a i think that's two years ago all right let's take a look oh february's

1411
02:12:55,120 --> 02:13:02,960
last year so i think the market cap of ape coin at the time was 700 million right started going

1412
02:13:03,600 --> 02:13:12,480
down so 700 million proposal dollar proposal uh or to run a 700 million dollar project i would

1413
02:13:12,480 --> 02:13:17,920
expected the the bid to come in about i would have been surprised at the bid it come in about 300 pages

1414
02:13:17,920 --> 02:13:23,840
that didn't happen here instead it was nine pages pretty succinct into the point

1415
02:13:25,280 --> 02:13:30,160
all right they talk about their experience what they want to do how they're going to fulfill all

1416
02:13:30,160 --> 02:13:36,960
of the goals and expectations the steps they're going to take to operationalize the framework

1417
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:42,000
so they're going to transition things they're going to secure things they're going to identify

1418
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:48,160
processes they're going to establish things they're going to retroactively assess things and they're

1419
02:13:48,160 --> 02:13:55,520
going to continue to do things right okay all right almost there almost to the end

1420
02:13:56,560 --> 02:14:03,280
uh they're going they're going to how they're going to be remain in compliance with local laws

1421
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:07,600
local laws being the cayman islands how finance is going to happen how they're going to approach

1422
02:14:07,600 --> 02:14:12,240
how they're going to approach legal how they're going to do a daily operations what they're going

1423
02:14:12,240 --> 02:14:22,240
to do with the treasury and now here you go the key teammates of the administrators who will

1424
02:14:22,240 --> 02:14:34,400
replace kartan who currently run the ape foundation person one person two person three person four

1425
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:43,520
person five person six and their advisors this was the bid that was selected last year

1426
02:14:44,720 --> 02:14:52,240
this was the this bid was accepted this entity and i say entities because it was a partnership

1427
02:14:52,240 --> 02:14:58,240
web slinger and crest bridge came and limited they were selected to run the dow

1428
02:14:58,240 --> 02:15:05,840
and by dow i mean the ape foundation and all the duties responsible there and the rest of the duties

1429
02:15:05,840 --> 02:15:16,000
that were separated from uh aip 196 which was the board aip those were now pushed down to the special

1430
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:30,720
council and below okay and then we have the last link in the chain um well one more note by the way

1431
02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:37,920
when i researched crest big press crest bridge cayman limited um they were renamed to

1432
02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:49,440
give me a second bridge bridge sport bridge port bridge um crest bridge something on

1433
02:15:50,480 --> 02:16:01,280
they were renamed to what what were they renamed to oh crest bridge was renamed to bridge stream

1434
02:16:01,280 --> 02:16:09,680
group it renames the wrong word there there is um here let me show you the article i found

1435
02:16:11,280 --> 02:16:13,680
so in the cayman compass so local cayman news

1436
02:16:16,160 --> 02:16:17,920
crest bridge spins off

1437
02:16:20,080 --> 02:16:27,920
itself and creates bridge bridge stream group

1438
02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:39,200
okay so um the the name here uh should look familiar and the website for bridge stream group

1439
02:16:40,800 --> 02:16:52,880
contains two important names that are current directors and administrators for the ape foundation

1440
02:16:52,880 --> 02:17:00,240
eight foundation so there you go so crest bridge is now called bridge stream web slingers is still

1441
02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:06,400
web slingers run by uh i think they actually web slingers is run by another company but i didn't

1442
02:17:06,400 --> 02:17:10,560
really feel the need to delve into that like i said i didn't go to the nth degree but there you have

1443
02:17:10,560 --> 02:17:17,600
it those are your eight foundation people who run it there's one last link in the chain aip 426

1444
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:24,480
special counsel future elections requirements and role clarification there is uh one very important

1445
02:17:25,120 --> 02:17:33,760
section in here that sheds light on on um the q a during botb a couple weeks ago one of the big

1446
02:17:33,760 --> 02:17:39,280
things was what power does a special counsel actually have why aren't they why aren't they

1447
02:17:39,280 --> 02:17:47,680
involved in things or to what extent are they involved whatever but let's read in the abstract

1448
02:17:47,680 --> 02:17:58,960
of aip 426 under the rationale all right let's let's read to further shape the success of the

1449
02:17:58,960 --> 02:18:03,600
role long term and we're and they're talking about the special counsel the following changes are

1450
02:18:03,600 --> 02:18:10,480
proposed to be made one clarify that the special counsel is an advisory board that serves an

1451
02:18:10,480 --> 02:18:17,680
advisory function with no corporate decision making power by now the importance of that phrase should

1452
02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:23,360
should make itself obvious to you corporate decision making power corporate referring to

1453
02:18:23,360 --> 02:18:32,880
the ape foundation incorporated in the cayman islands run by web slinger team and bridge stream

1454
02:18:32,880 --> 02:18:39,360
team used to be called cross bridge okay rationale now here's here's the tell here's here's really

1455
02:18:39,360 --> 02:18:46,320
where the link ends the rationale oftentimes there is quoted confusion in the community

1456
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:54,480
about what the special counsel is or is not ready in practice the special counsel is in fact an

1457
02:18:54,480 --> 02:19:02,160
advisory board neither corporate officers nor management executives corporate officers is a key

1458
02:19:02,160 --> 02:19:08,720
phrase there that means they held no official position in the ape foundation nor management

1459
02:19:08,720 --> 02:19:15,600
executives so that's that's your c-suite those your directors your officers okay and they should not

1460
02:19:15,600 --> 02:19:23,120
be viewed as such the advisory board should also not be misconstrued as the board of directors of

1461
02:19:23,120 --> 02:19:30,320
the ape foundation and there's a nail in the coffin the special counsel is an advisory board

1462
02:19:30,320 --> 02:19:39,040
meaning they have no legal authority to run the ape foundation and i'm going to go into why that is

1463
02:19:39,040 --> 02:19:47,440
it's actually the reason why that is is buried in in the cayman's foundations company act and the

1464
02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:53,520
the company act so there's there's two different law legal bodies at play there it basically says

1465
02:19:53,520 --> 02:20:00,560
that in order for you to run special certain parts of a cayman's island company you have to be

1466
02:20:00,560 --> 02:20:08,320
properly licensed by the central board called sema but it's a board within the cayman islands

1467
02:20:08,320 --> 02:20:14,720
that issues licenses all right you have to be licensed by a company to do certain roles and

1468
02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:20,320
responsibilities in a cayman's island company mostly secretarial positions but those secretarial

1469
02:20:20,320 --> 02:20:26,080
positions are very important in the record keeping and disclosure of who is doing what where in the

1470
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:36,080
company okay so that that requirement requires that you have people be intricately involved in

1471
02:20:36,080 --> 02:20:41,920
the legality and all this and all that stuff in cayman islands i didn't find any references that

1472
02:20:41,920 --> 02:20:48,160
require that they have they be of caymanian cayman i mean caymanian you know a citizen of cayman

1473
02:20:48,160 --> 02:20:54,480
islands to be uh to get a license but i had i didn't do an exhaustive search yet that'll be

1474
02:20:54,480 --> 02:21:01,920
the next podcast episode when we talk about the foundation the sandbox foundation and doing a

1475
02:21:01,920 --> 02:21:06,560
deep reading of the constitution and the articles and all the stuff that makes up the sandbox

1476
02:21:06,560 --> 02:21:12,880
foundation the same stuff that would be required of the ape foundation but i could not find the

1477
02:21:12,880 --> 02:21:22,640
eight foundations articles memos or or constitution couldn't find anything about it so apes i would

1478
02:21:22,640 --> 02:21:29,840
recommend you go get your hands on those things um now that we know who is running what it shouldn't

1479
02:21:29,840 --> 02:21:38,000
be hard to request it and to obtain it i've heard ndas i've heard all sorts of stuff but now that we

1480
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:46,560
kind of take taking it out of conspiracy illuminati cabal stuff and into a these are probably

1481
02:21:46,560 --> 02:21:53,600
reasonable people doing reasonable things they work for the eight point dow foundation uh the

1482
02:21:53,600 --> 02:22:01,280
eight point dow community so why not ask for the documents you're paying them to be a custodian

1483
02:22:01,280 --> 02:22:10,560
of your dow talking to apes and and um yeah so they work for you they say so in their proposal

1484
02:22:11,280 --> 02:22:17,280
so you take them at their word you're paying them to do this role for you so ask for it

1485
02:22:19,600 --> 02:22:28,080
okay that's it that's it there's some extra stuff you can look into if you really want to

1486
02:22:28,080 --> 02:22:33,600
to under help and resources in the discourse subforum there's eight foundation players and it kind

1487
02:22:34,400 --> 02:22:41,040
it kind of uh spells out exactly what we just said uh in in the ape coin dow weslinger's advisors

1488
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:49,040
and uh its partners which is rich dream uh serves as the as the

1489
02:22:49,040 --> 02:22:56,960
as the administrator the administration the governance all that okay and then yeah so you

1490
02:22:56,960 --> 02:23:06,320
can go there it's there now and there is your explanation back to botb and the q and a's back

1491
02:23:06,320 --> 02:23:15,520
into who is who's doing the the banning of profiles who is running the the corporation

1492
02:23:15,520 --> 02:23:25,760
in the cayman islands their people they're real people doing real things and you i won't make i'm

1493
02:23:25,760 --> 02:23:32,480
not a spokesman for the ape coin dow i'm not a spokesman for the for anything except for myself

1494
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:38,800
but there are some good reasons for why these things are in existence you just need to be

1495
02:23:38,800 --> 02:23:46,400
diligent about running it otherwise it will run you and it looks like the dow did exactly that

1496
02:23:46,400 --> 02:23:52,400
they they ran it in aip 196 as soon as they voted kartan out they've grabbed the bull by the horns

1497
02:23:52,400 --> 02:23:57,680
established a working group to figure it out and they did it's just not transparent to the greater

1498
02:23:57,680 --> 02:24:04,880
ape community a lot of a's don't know so my recommendation if you are in uh just my humble

1499
02:24:04,880 --> 02:24:09,440
recommendation it's my own personal leadership philosophy if you are in a position of authority

1500
02:24:09,440 --> 02:24:17,120
in the ape coin dow or ape foundation i recommend don't go to twitter spaces i mean definitely go to

1501
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:24,160
space but your problem right now is visibility the problem that the apes have with you that i've

1502
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:28,720
heard and i've heard a lot of twitter spaces with the apes in there problem that they have with you

1503
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:35,360
is visibility they just don't know what's happening and it's the same problem that sanfam has with its

1504
02:24:35,360 --> 02:24:40,400
leadership is visibility seb is highly visible he goes to all the conferences if i want to know what

1505
02:24:40,400 --> 02:24:44,400
seb believes all i need to do is just look up this latest conference he talks about what he believes

1506
02:24:44,400 --> 02:24:53,120
in but the rest of everyone not that visible the ambassadors are visible thank you ambassadors love

1507
02:24:53,120 --> 02:24:59,440
you by the way but the rest of leadership it's hard it's hard to know who is doing what and where

1508
02:24:59,440 --> 02:25:04,160
and it can feel like strings are being pulled behind our backs especially when some apes don't

1509
02:25:04,160 --> 02:25:11,920
agree and it's easier to blame this illuminati cabal than to dissect it to figure out who is

1510
02:25:11,920 --> 02:25:17,200
doing what who is running what why are they doing this okay turns out apes are paying them to do

1511
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:28,240
this so my recommendation to those in authority is push out a small one minute video of introducing

1512
02:25:28,240 --> 02:25:40,720
yourself what you do and blast it out of marcom's and everything else you can put it everywhere

1513
02:25:40,720 --> 02:25:48,560
and everything else you can put it everywhere make your faces known twitter spaces aren't good

1514
02:25:48,560 --> 02:25:54,560
enough i wish they were but they're not um not many people hit the recording not as many people

1515
02:25:54,560 --> 02:26:04,480
as you need to to get out of this this negative public relations circumstance you need to blast

1516
02:26:04,480 --> 02:26:11,440
you need to blast things far and wide that you exist you are who you are and i think you'll see

1517
02:26:11,440 --> 02:26:18,320
a lot of negativity go away it might be replaced by people who criticize what you do your qualifications

1518
02:26:18,320 --> 02:26:24,240
or whatever but that's part of what it means to be a leader you have to own the fact that you're

1519
02:26:24,240 --> 02:26:33,280
you're where it ends you are the leadership not me when i when i run for special counsel in the

1520
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:42,880
sandbox style i if i am elected i will own that responsibility as well uh i've been in leadership

1521
02:26:42,880 --> 02:26:54,880
for a long time uh in private public sectors both you own the vision you own the the responsibility

1522
02:26:54,880 --> 02:27:06,160
to communicate and that's just my personal leadership philosophy so yep apes things are

1523
02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:11,840
going a little crazy for you right now especially with what was it 466 just passed where it dissolved

1524
02:27:11,840 --> 02:27:16,000
the working groups so now what what do you got what are you all doing now i don't know i have to

1525
02:27:16,000 --> 02:27:20,880
go listen to the last botb i wasn't there because i was doing all the research for this podcast

1526
02:27:20,880 --> 02:27:30,240
podcast um and there you go so in summary this is the relationship map there are many like it

1527
02:27:30,960 --> 02:27:40,800
but this one describes the sandbox town foundation this is the map of key players in the sandbox

1528
02:27:40,800 --> 02:27:47,280
foundation they live close together now they they work close together there's nothing inherently

1529
02:27:47,280 --> 02:27:52,960
wrong with that and the judging of conspiracy if you were to weigh things me personally i don't

1530
02:27:52,960 --> 02:27:58,080
weigh it as a conspiracy i think there are more factors more common sense things in play that

1531
02:27:58,080 --> 02:28:05,040
just make it reasonable reasonable people doing reasonable things and my disclosure is i'm i'm an

1532
02:28:05,040 --> 02:28:12,480
ape and i was led down this path by listening to the q a sessions and participating in them

1533
02:28:12,480 --> 02:28:19,360
and botb twitter spaces related to aip 466 which is passed to close all the working groups i'm not

1534
02:28:19,360 --> 02:28:23,600
involved in the eight coin dial very much at all i'm not in communication with the special council

1535
02:28:23,600 --> 02:28:33,040
of the ape foundation or or the foundation itself for the apes uh i have about 100 ape in my wallet

1536
02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:40,240
i think so not that much at all i'm a bull i'm a bear i'm a mocha i'm most importantly i'm sand fam

1537
02:28:40,240 --> 02:28:48,480
there you have it i'm gonna be doing a lot of new more episodes um this has spurred a whole thing

1538
02:28:48,480 --> 02:28:52,800
i've had to separate it because we're now running up on three hours so this was huge and long but

1539
02:28:52,800 --> 02:29:00,560
you know what it was needed if you're with me or you're re watching this on youtube again or

1540
02:29:00,560 --> 02:29:07,360
you're listening to the podcast this is important stuff you're talking about a billion dollar dow for

1541
02:29:07,360 --> 02:29:16,880
the apes and for for a sandbox we have what over a million users now and the dow has 15.5 million

1542
02:29:16,880 --> 02:29:24,240
sand which is roughly three to four million u.s dollars this is some important stuff so we need to

1543
02:29:24,240 --> 02:29:29,520
we need to be masters of our own fate here we need to know what we're doing because it is a great big

1544
02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:36,480
world out there and some people want to eat you there there's a saying that you can't eat a

1545
02:29:36,480 --> 02:29:43,280
there's a saying that i say all the time it was said to me once and i say it now if you're not

1546
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:50,400
at the table you're on the menu what that means is you're not there if you're not there to advocate

1547
02:29:50,400 --> 02:29:59,200
if you're not there to reason to to participate you become the thing that they participate on

1548
02:29:59,200 --> 02:30:07,440
you have no say then at that point and what happens up until you get mad enough to do something about

1549
02:30:07,440 --> 02:30:18,720
it if you're not at the table you're on the menu and until the dow the ape dow realized this with

1550
02:30:19,360 --> 02:30:27,120
what when it i think what happened is people were surprised at the effects of aip 186 or 190 whatever

1551
02:30:27,120 --> 02:30:35,520
it was when it discontinued cartan services it didn't know what it had done until aip 196

1552
02:30:36,240 --> 02:30:43,440
when the final report came out for the board aip to bring about the rfp process that hired

1553
02:30:43,440 --> 02:30:49,360
web slingers and and the current administrators i don't want san fan to fall in that same

1554
02:30:49,360 --> 02:30:56,880
that same thing i want to learn from this example so that we can do good so that we can avoid that

1555
02:30:56,880 --> 02:31:08,400
landmine we're we're structured a lot for structures similarly to the ape foundation our our dow is

1556
02:31:08,400 --> 02:31:14,960
structured a little bit different when it comes to the front end and i'll go over that in another

1557
02:31:14,960 --> 02:31:22,800
episode this is good enough for now we went over so much so i didn't see any

1558
02:31:24,240 --> 02:31:33,440
i didn't see any community questions i don't have any remaining open topics except if you're not

1559
02:31:34,960 --> 02:31:42,800
at the table i couldn't i can't tell you just how much i've learned in all of this holy smokes

1560
02:31:42,800 --> 02:31:51,040
i cannot believe the depths of which this goes and i learned a lot about business that i didn't

1561
02:31:51,040 --> 02:31:59,520
i didn't even know that i knew i needed to know until then so i had so much fun i had so much fun

1562
02:31:59,520 --> 02:32:05,040
and sebga says we're here to make it i really started to think we need to have sub-dow the dow

1563
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:10,560
is so big it's heavy yeah you're right uh there are sub-dows already though uh if you go to

1564
02:32:10,560 --> 02:32:18,880
whale dow which is the whale members of the sandbox of sam fam they own uh 1600 lands if you go to mocha

1565
02:32:18,880 --> 02:32:25,840
dow they are the mocha members of the mocha verse they hold as a collective a lot i don't know how

1566
02:32:25,840 --> 02:32:34,960
many probably thousands of lands there's a botb dow they they have a plot of land i think a six by six

1567
02:32:34,960 --> 02:32:42,960
a plot of land i think a six by six there's all sorts of sub-dows seb has a dow a sub-dow

1568
02:32:42,960 --> 02:32:52,000
which has seb coin and he votes on the sip's based on how his sub-dow votes we're already there in

1569
02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:59,280
fact i need to make a note to ensure that i include that in the dow ecosystem for us sub-dows thank

1570
02:32:59,280 --> 02:33:10,320
you sebga i really appreciate that uh sub-dow talk about whale dow mocha dow botb dow seb's dow

1571
02:33:10,320 --> 02:33:15,360
man i would have that's such a good graphic too i can't wait to put that one out there cool i

1572
02:33:15,360 --> 02:33:23,680
haven't constructed yet but i will all right open topics we're done with that uh be masters of your

1573
02:33:23,680 --> 02:33:31,440
own fate and if you're not at the table you're on the menu don't be on the menu okay sandbox spaces

1574
02:33:31,440 --> 02:33:37,440
discord uh hashtag dow discussion in that there's a channel for that that's where i post stuff i

1575
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:43,680
talk in there i look at that pretty frequently the dow forums i look at that all the time uh if you

1576
02:33:43,680 --> 02:33:49,280
want to be involved in the sandbox dow go there and twitter hashtag is the san fam hashtag the

1577
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:56,480
sandbox dow hashtag the sandbox game follow the sandbox dow account follow my account at mr lancer

1578
02:33:57,440 --> 02:34:03,680
and then youtube the sandbox dow has its own youtube channel subscribe it's at the sandbox

1579
02:34:03,680 --> 02:34:10,880
dow and then my youtube channel at lancer yt youtube uh and it is where i host the sandal podcast

1580
02:34:10,880 --> 02:34:18,400
for sandbox spaces go to mocha verse hall on monday's right now it's at 9 p.m eastern 3 a.m

1581
02:34:18,400 --> 02:34:24,800
central uh cst if you're bulls on the block or if you want to go and build on the block great

1582
02:34:24,800 --> 02:34:33,760
great intersection space for dow eight coin dow and the sandbox dow uh bulls on the block is

1583
02:34:33,760 --> 02:34:38,880
saturdays at 10 a.m eastern coffee with captain is a great place to go to keep up with the eight

1584
02:34:38,880 --> 02:34:47,680
coin dow also there's some crosses between our arbitram and some some other things they do talk

1585
02:34:47,680 --> 02:34:53,600
about sandbox every once in a while so that's monday through friday at 8 a.m eastern and then

1586
02:34:53,600 --> 02:34:58,640
well members has the natively digital they are one of the largest landowners in all of san fam

1587
02:35:00,160 --> 02:35:07,200
they have their natively digital twitter space on tuesdays at 6 p.m eastern and san fam cafe is a

1588
02:35:07,200 --> 02:35:13,360
monthly podcast put on by pickaxe master and there's different topics it's the topic of the month for

1589
02:35:13,360 --> 02:35:28,320
them okay we have reached the end that was an excessively long podcast but i think you'll agree

1590
02:35:28,320 --> 02:35:37,280
it was time it was time for us to have that talk i wasn't expecting to have this talk two weeks ago

1591
02:35:37,280 --> 02:35:42,400
it wasn't till we hit that q a when it all became apparent to me that we need to be figuring this

1592
02:35:42,400 --> 02:35:52,000
out in a hurry i've i view things i view the the sandbox dow and the sandbox admin team and the

1593
02:35:52,000 --> 02:36:00,880
foundation a lot more favorably now i don't see it as suspiciously as i used to so i'll still be

1594
02:36:00,880 --> 02:36:07,440
critical of some things i have no doubt i have no doubt admin team then i'm still going to be

1595
02:36:07,440 --> 02:36:13,280
somewhat critical of some things but you're going to see a lot less intensity sero has been answering

1596
02:36:13,280 --> 02:36:21,520
my questions in the forum the new communications manager kunta gave a great introduction and his

1597
02:36:21,520 --> 02:36:26,880
approach and i love it absolutely love the approach that he's going to take on this and he's been

1598
02:36:26,880 --> 02:36:32,000
answering questions i feel a lot more confident about the way forward i feel less suspicious

1599
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:39,440
about what happened before it i'm good i'm not there yet but i'm i'm pretty good with what i'm

1600
02:36:39,440 --> 02:36:44,160
seeing now i understand even if i don't agree with everything i don't have to there's a famous quote

1601
02:36:44,160 --> 02:36:53,360
by one of the former u.s president uh teddy rosevelt the benefit of the doubt goes to the person in the

1602
02:36:53,360 --> 02:37:00,080
ring getting dirt on their face doing the job the current dow administrator is in the ring

1603
02:37:00,080 --> 02:37:05,280
doing the job dirt on his face the dow admin team is in the ring getting dirt on their face

1604
02:37:05,280 --> 02:37:10,640
the dow admin team is in the ring getting dirt on their face you can sit here i can sit here all day

1605
02:37:10,640 --> 02:37:15,840
long on my light nice little podcast and criticize all day long what they've been doing criticize

1606
02:37:15,840 --> 02:37:19,120
this and criticize that and you should have done this better and blah blah blah

1607
02:37:21,120 --> 02:37:26,960
at some point haven't been a business person myself having been a a ceo and a president of

1608
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:34,960
a company myself the people who are responsible for making it happen they get the blame and they

1609
02:37:34,960 --> 02:37:40,240
get the praise and i can praise the admin team for putting this together

1610
02:37:42,720 --> 02:37:49,040
clearly a lot of thought and structure has gone into it and i can pick at them not including

1611
02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:56,640
the community even though it's supposed to be a dow by the community okay i feel a lot more

1612
02:37:56,640 --> 02:38:05,360
satisfied about it i feel a lot more i feel happier now so now that we reach this point i

1613
02:38:05,360 --> 02:38:12,160
think it's on us to figure out what we want to do about it all we're on a path of progressive

1614
02:38:12,160 --> 02:38:17,520
decentralization kunta has made a point that he's going to relay to the community what that means

1615
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:23,440
the dow medium article explained that it is very interested in doing that so i have no doubt that in

1616
02:38:23,440 --> 02:38:29,840
the near future kunta and the dow admin team will we'll see that process play out i didn't expect

1617
02:38:29,840 --> 02:38:35,840
to be here though feeling the way i do about it i feel much better about it all and two weeks ago

1618
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:43,920
i was still i was still pissed pissed about it just like everybody else was i was feeling resentful

1619
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:50,960
and angry and bitter and i was trying to keep calm and and collected so that we can can focus

1620
02:38:50,960 --> 02:38:55,040
on the problem and not focus on personalities and all that sort of stuff and bitterness no

1621
02:38:55,600 --> 02:39:01,760
focus on solutions and the and the knowledge of what we were to figure out in this podcast presents

1622
02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:09,680
to us a solution uh the opportunity for a solution and one that is can be acceptable by most

1623
02:39:09,680 --> 02:39:15,920
stakeholders and parties and and not just a let's burn it down to the ground and restart i don't

1624
02:39:15,920 --> 02:39:24,880
think we need to maybe some tweaks are needed maybe uh but we'll we'll do this together as san

1625
02:39:24,880 --> 02:39:33,040
fan and and i feel very very strongly about that that's all i got everyone that's all i got

1626
02:39:34,880 --> 02:39:41,760
thank you all for your time thank you for hanging in with me three hours this podcast ran

1627
02:39:41,760 --> 02:39:48,160
it was an analysis of facts that were publicly available that we're transparent uh to be more

1628
02:39:48,160 --> 02:39:57,600
transparent about our dow this was sandell podcast 34 a look into the birth of the sandbox

1629
02:39:57,600 --> 02:40:13,040
the sandbox foundation and i think we figured it out thank you all for your time san fam and have a great day