Alright, here we are.
Sandow Podcast number 30.
Oh, this one is a big one.
This is one that I have been waiting for for a while.
I actually started this as originally going to be Sandow Podcast number five, end up being
34.
So yeah, yeah, been a long time.
Been a long time ago.
So been a long time.
It's taken me this long to get through everything that I needed to.
I did a lot of interviews, other stuff like that.
But now here I am in looking at how the Dow came to be something that's been on many people's
minds for a long time, especially mine because I want to invest in my time, effort and energy
into it.
And there's a lot of things that I need to know just for myself or, you know, protection
sake for clarity for governance, a whole bunch of reasons why.
And finally figured it out this past week.
There were some things that happened that kind of spawned all this to occur.
And we'll get into that, especially for my ApeDow, ApecoinDow people.
But today we're going to talk about the birth of the Sandbox Dow, how it came to be.
My scope of the talk, I normally fly through it, but this time I need to spend just a little
bit of time on it.
So what is today about?
Today is about the results of an analysis.
I put in many, many hours of research and came up with a bunch of facts, a set of facts
that help tell a story.
All of these facts that I'm about to show you are all public.
So I don't have any secret back channel knowledge.
I was able to find everything I'm about to show you through a bunch of public websites,
mostly Google, but also other things.
What this is not is this is not an accusation against anyone or the Sandbox Dow.
It's not a smear campaign.
You're not going to see me say, ha, I got you.
This isn't that type of podcast.
This isn't that type of episode.
What's about is being open and transparent about what in the world is going on inside
of our Dow.
That's what this is.
This is a need for transparency for a lot of people for business interests.
And when I get into another podcast later on down the road about the business of publishing
within the Sandbox Dow, or within the Sandbox game, you'll see there are a lot of business
interests.
Some people had to exit recently because those business interests collided with regulatory
things.
There's a lot of variables at play because of what the Sandbox Dow is involved in.
The Sandbox is involved in all of its connections, all of its businesses, all of its ecosystem.
Right.
That's what we're talking about.
The ecosystem.
Hey, Sebga, this is a good one, man.
This is I've been waiting for this episode for a long time because it finally reveals,
finally reveals all of the relationships that I could find by scouring the Internet.
So it's about transparency.
What in the world is going on inside of our Dow?
Because up until this point, we haven't really had as much as we wanted.
There have been so many questions that have been answered.
And this was an attempt to clear away some of the fog.
All right.
Disclaimer.
I do not represent the Sandbox game or the Sandbox Dow Foundation.
I am not your financial or legal advisor and nothing I say is to be taken as financial
or legal advice.
When I say the word SIP, I mean Sandbox Improvement Proposal.
When I say the word Dow, I mean Decentralized Autonomous Organization.
Yes, I've got me too, man.
I've been waiting for this for a long time, too.
And when I say Sandfam, I mean anyone in the sandbox community who participates in the
people, product and purpose of the sandbox ecosystem.
What do I mean by sandbox ecosystem?
I'm glad you asked.
This is my newest slide that I will include now and everything because of its importance
to the Dow and to the podcast.
I did this back in Sandow 31, an introduction to the sandbox ecosystem.
I'm talking about the people, the products, the purpose.
So that's all, you know, the gamers, the makers, the artists, the owners, the holders, the
delegates, the participants, the team and the product, you know, client, editor, maker,
market, the Dow, and then the purpose, the state of purpose in the white paper and all
the things that the owners have said up in this point.
You know, Sebastian, Arthur, yeah, all of that weaves together, combines into an ecosystem.
That ecosystem has been in operations and flourishing since 2018.
So the scoreboard, there are no SIP drafts in the forums and there are no SIPs that are
open for voting.
Currently the Dow team is working hard on approving the delegation system and approving
delegates that have applied, of which there are dozens and dozens.
It seems like over 50, I think.
I'm not sure.
I don't have an exact number.
But up until this point, we have nine SIPs that have been approved, 56%, six SIPs that
have not been approved, 37%, and one SIP has been withdrawn.
We have spent 15% of our 15.5 million Sand budget.
And here's the spread of SIPs.
SIPs one through seven were all approved.
Eight, nine, ten did not pass because of quorum.
Eleven, twelve did pass.
And thirteen, fourteen, fifteen did not pass because of quorum.
Dowbase.ai, we are still at 211,211,000 token holders.
And I got a clarification from Dowbase.ai.
That means both the landowners and the Sand token holders.
So I was trying to confuse for a while.
Does token mean just Sand?
Does it mean land?
It means both.
Their aggregator, their crawler system incorporates both into 2,213 voters across 13 proposals.
Actually, that should say 15 proposals who have casted almost 10,000 votes.
Really good information to know.
Introductions.
Who am I?
I am Lancer.
I am an avatar holder, experience publisher, president of MetaWorlds, which has published
floor droppers and...
Why do I always forget the second one?
Floor droppers and lava defense.
Floor droppers is currently in 0-0 in Alpha Season 4.
I cannot believe that we made it.
Just cannot believe it.
And I have a...
Similar to this episode here, I have a background in contract writing and negotiations.
I am currently a program manager of many products and projects.
And I am a serial entrepreneur.
So a lot of that has kind of melded together into a background of business, community.
I've been a community organizer before.
A gamer.
And leadership in governance.
Currently working on completing the Dow Expert Certificate by a blockchain council.
It's big.
It's a lot.
So kind of working on that.
Working on that on the side.
But that's me.
President of MetaWorlds, experience publisher, mainly business background, contract writing
background, that sort of thing.
That is important because the analysis.
So as I said in the beginning, this whole episode is based on an analysis that produce
facts that are publicly available.
It is not a smear accusation campaign.
It's to make transparent all the stuff that's happening in the sandbox now.
This analysis is based on many different sources of information.
YouTube videos, interviews, Google searches, of reading of government law and business
regulations and registries.
Looking at various company relationship mapping databases.
There's many of which the main one was done in Bradstreet.
So D&B.
Looking at different company websites and just reading about us or reading their summaries.
LinkedIn.
So looking up profiles of the founders and reading their company history.
And then reading of the sandbox foundation memo of our association, articles of association
and sandbox style constitution.
That is how 90% of what you're about to see comes from.
The rest of it is incidental stuff I found on the web elsewhere, different websites,
that sort of thing.
So let's work out a timeline, a basic timeline of where our episode is captured between 2012
sandbox starts as a 2D mobile game.
Next forward to 2018, sandbox transforms into a 3D metaverse blockchain game.
So no longer 2D, no longer mobile, now 3D on the computer and it's blockchain enabled.
September of 2020, the sandbox issues a white paper and it lists the intent to start a DAO.
Early 2022, the DAO planning starts about although I think it really, really starts
in August.
I'm sorry, excuse me, May of 2023.
It definitely started by that point.
And then fast forward to November of 2023, the sandbox foundation is created as a legal
entity to represent the DAO within the jurisdiction of the Cayman Islands.
Grand Cayman Islands is its full name.
And then May of 2024, the sandbox DAO is officially announced and SIP voting begins.
So here are some links I wanted to show you.
In 2012, the sandbox starts as a 2D mobile game.
Alright, so our first video illustrates a blockchain gamer biz back in six years ago.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Arthur Madrid.
I'm the happy founder of Pixel.
We began doing a mobile game called the sandbox in 2012.
So there we go.
Mobile game in the sandbox in 2012.
2018.
So what's next for us?
We have been working on a sandbox 3D version.
And we begin to think about the blockchain.
So there you go.
This is again, same conference six years ago in 2018, right as the sandbox was transitioning
into its blockchain form that it is today.
Alright, September 2020 sandbox releases a white paper.
It looks like this.
And the DAO is in the first paragraph.
It talks about the DAO.
Sandholders will also participate in the governance of the platform via decentralized autonomous
organization, a DAO.
So right off the bat, they're talking about.
And then, in November 2023, the sandbox foundation is created as a legal entity.
So you can see the seal up there in the top right and the register office will get all
that later on and all the stuff that's required to become a legal entity.
And then May 2024, DAO is announced via medium article.
And this was the article.
Okay, so that's our timeline.
That's what we're going to be working in between.
This is what I sent out to everyone right here.
In fact, I'm going to make it a little bit bigger because of how important it is to follow
along in this story.
So this is what I sent out to everyone, kind of teased it a little bit and had a little
bit of fun.
I was just so excited that I was able to piece together all the relationships and I just
couldn't I couldn't help myself.
So this right here is is DAO relationship map that I that I formulated together.
When you see a solid line, it means a direct relationship as in a direct report has authority
over that sort of thing.
If you see a dotted line, it means there's an association, maybe like a working agreement
or something's going on there.
Sometimes I know what's going on.
Sometimes I don't know what's going on.
But it's not like a formal relationship where one party reports to the other.
Okay.
So this is this is what we know.
This is what we knew and what most of San Fam knew going into it.
Right.
So we knew about the sandbox company right here.
We knew about the sandbox DAO Foundation.
All right, we knew there was something going on here.
Not exactly sure what we know that there was a DAO admin team because they call themselves
a DAO admin team.
Not exactly sure what entities were at play except, you know, Cyril as the DAO administrator
and you know, Seb as the company owner, one of the company founders and in the company.
Then we knew about the SIPs that started all off.
There's a special council.
There's an advisory board.
Most people probably or some people at least knew YAT was on that board is on the special
council board for the sandbox DAO.
You know, we're familiar with the the the ecosystem and the that there's land and there's
sand that there's discord that we talk on.
There's the website and the snapshot that we vote on.
All right.
So there's some things that we knew going into it.
But there is so much more to learn about.
And that's what today's episode about is unpacking that it took me so many hours of googling
and look sifting through data, piecing stuff together.
I have a research document that is approaching 100 pages at this point.
That's how much time and effort went into this thing.
So without without I keep generally to I keep most names out.
There's some names that are very, you know, very so public that they're just, you know,
their mainstay like like Seb and Cyril and Yatsu.
So those are central figures.
But for the vast majority, I refer to people as their positions and titles.
Like I'll refer to Cyril as the sandbox DAO administrator.
I refer to Seb as the sandbox co founder.
I'll refer to yet as the chairman of like Animoca brands or the special council member,
whatever position is most applicable.
So I'll generally do that.
But without further ado, this is the unpacking of the DAO relationship map and how the DAO
came to be ready.
It all starts with the sandbox company used to be headquartered in Paris.
It is now in Malta in terms of legally where it is.
That happened about 2018.
It doesn't matter.
It happened a little while ago.
Twenty twenty one something like that.
It has a San token and a land token NFT that is functioning as part of, you know, holding
stuff.
You can do things with it.
I can speculate creating a thriving ecosystem of people, products and purpose.
So I go over that in episode 31, the details of which.
When you put them all together, what is it that you're left with?
What do you get?
You get that ecosystem, the daily interactions and of all the people, purpose and products
buying and selling.
So that's what you're that's what you are, what you have.
You have a thriving ecosystem sandbox created through all of these things.
But as it said in its white paper in twenty twenty, it wants to create a DAO.
It has every intention of creating a DAO.
So how do you do that?
It started in twenty twenty, the idea, but it really didn't start planning until two
years later when and Seb talked about this in I think it was Sandel Podcast eight.
He talked about the conditions being not they weren't right until recently when there is
an ecosystem that was thriving.
They have the partner base to support it.
Right.
Things aren't correctly aligned for them to launch it in twenty twenty when the white
paper hits.
So they have to wait until conditions are right.
Twenty twenty three conditions start aligning twenty twenty four.
They're ready to launch.
OK.
So how do you launch a DAO?
What is a DAO?
A centralized autonomous organization.
It's a collection of people voting on things to spend money.
So what do they do?
Sandbox then looks at Arasaki.
Oh, they it is a is a consulting company based in Paris.
And you know, the the.
The founder of the company, which was in Paris at the time as well, you know, probably meets
the the the founder of Arasaki, who is currently the DAO administrator, currently the current
DAO administrator, also in Paris, Paris and Paris.
They probably meet somewhere.
All right.
Fine.
They partner with Arasaki.
Arasaki then decides it needs to create a team, a team that will help create a DAO.
So what do they do?
They link up with Fleet Collective.
It too, I found connections in Paris, but they seem mostly worldwide.
Also they seem like they're owned by another company.
I could not find much about anything on Fleet Collective when it came to their business
registration.
They're like a ghost.
But I did find some, I think, associations with another company and headquartered in
Paris.
They kind of the same terminology.
The only thing I the only reason that they're blacked out right now is because I couldn't
link specifically the founders of Fleet Collective and this other company.
I couldn't find that smoking gun that would really link them.
So I don't feel comfortable putting their name here because I could be wrong.
And but but it's really, really close together.
I'm pretty sure it's that company anyways.
It doesn't really matter for what we're talking about.
In any case, Arasaki, oh, hires people from Fleet Collective as Web 3 specialists, project
managers, that sort of thing to help staff the admin team.
Who else does our sake or tap?
Oh, right.
So I X mark means, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna include them in our little thing
here.
Who else do they have tab, they tap the carton group based out of the Cayman Islands.
That's that's a number number one, the carton group based out of the Cayman Islands.
If carton group sounds familiar to you, and some of your your it's that sounds familiar
to you, you would be correct.
The carton group was was also related to another Web 3 DAO project.
Very well known.
The Apecoin DAO.
That's right.
The carton group, which is now part of the DAO admin team for the sandbox, was one of
the main entities that wrote AIP one in March 2022.
That stood up the eight foundation and the Cayman Islands.
And which created a special counsel, created the tech stack that everyone knows, which
is discourse, the website and snapshot.
Does that look familiar?
It should, because that's the same tech stack that the sandbox DAO has.
Anyways, so that creates the tech stack up until AIP 183 in December 2022.
So like eight months later, when the renewal contract for carton group is not renewed,
and then that the carton group is replaced, goes through a lengthy request for proposal
process, the Apecoin DAO goes into this emergency set of meetings, they call it work group zero.
Anyways, that was a rabbit hole in and of itself.
And one of the things that I promised that I would answer, and I promise but one of the
things that I ended up figuring out for the Apecoin DAO that that is really good for them
to know.
So I tease in the tweet, who is running the Apecoin DAO through researching the incidentals
of researching the sandbox DAO foundation led me through the carton group led me through
the Apecoin foundation to try and trace some steps and people and all sorts of things.
Anyways, I think I figured out who's running the Apecoin DAO and who's running the Ape
foundation more on that later.
So let's go back to the sandbox DAO.
Arasaki Oh, wants to stand up a DAO.
How do you do that?
What is a DAO?
I'm going to be covering that in the later episode.
Because this used to all be one big thing, it was going to be going through the relationship,
how we got to today, and then an assessment of the constitution and a reading of everything
to dissect it and that sort of stuff and the bylaws, but it ended up being so big that
they need to be two separate episodes.
So I'll go on that in a later episode.
But who does Arasaki Oh tap to help stand up the DAO?
The Maples group in the Cayman Islands.
Number two, I guess by now it's number three because Apecoin DAO foundation, but because
this is a sandbox episode, we're just gonna stick with reference number two, the Maples
group headquartered out of the Cayman Islands, the Grand Cayman Islands.
So the Maples group then taps a law firm, Travers Thorpe Alburga, also in the Cayman
Islands, who then oh gosh, that was a little bit different.
I had to fix things, but okay.
So then what do the two of them do?
They create the sandbox DAO foundation headquarters out of the Cayman Islands.
So this is the creation of the DAO right there, the legal entity, reference in the timeline
earlier that is the sandbox foundation is created as a legal entity to rep the DAO in
the Cayman Islands.
So there we are, we have arrived at the creation of the legal entity.
It was created by Travers Thorpe Alburga and the Maples group.
And the way I found that out was reading the document, you can see the names, who the authorized
signatures were, and that kind of helps pinpoint who did what and where.
But it doesn't just end there, right?
So the sandbox DAO foundation then gives rise to the founder, the director, the secretary,
the supervisor, and the officers that staff the sandbox DAO foundation, the legal entity
in the Cayman Islands.
All of which is going to be that second episode that I took out of this one, which is a dissecting
of what does the founder role do?
What does the director do?
The secretary, the supervisor, the officers, why am I seeing these names?
Why is it important that it's structured this way in the Cayman Islands by these entities?
So next episode will be a review of the Constitution, the articles, and everyone who's involved.
But in terms of process and what happened, the founder, all the positions of the foundation
are created because of this entity that's been formed called a foundation company.
There's an interesting connection about how that happens.
Spoiler alert, foundation is actually not just a noun, the sandbox DAO foundation, it is
also an adjective.
It is a type of corporation, and I'll get all into that in the future episode.
So what does Travers Torbell Berger do?
They create a subsidiary, no, a separate legal entity called International Corp Services
Limited, and you can find them on Dun & Bradstreet.
But the connection there is that the key principle of ICSL, as it's doing business as International
Corporation Services Limited, ICSL, the key principle for ICSL is also one of the managing
partners at Travers Torbell Berger, so connection made.
They then, let's see, then the second one is in the articles of the association, you'll
see that there they are on the front page.
The registered office, International Corporation Services Limited, the registered office of
the sandbox foundation.
Okay, cool.
So that's link number one.
And then link number two is the memorandum of association.
Same thing, same registered office.
Okay, cool.
Keeping it going, ICSL.
So we pretty much established ICSL, the registered office is doing business as the Travers Torbell
Berger group, they're associated.
But then there's a step further, which is then an entity called the International Protector
and Advisors Limited, IPNA.
They get involved, so that's a new entity, also in the Cayman Islands.
Yeah, one, two, three, four, five, five, right?
Also in the Cayman Islands.
And I actually don't know how they're connected.
I know that they are the entity that SIP number two calls out as being a calls out as being
the entity that is staffing the founder.
Hold on, let me pull it up.
In SIP number two, right, so here it is, SIP number two.
And in SIP number two, it talks about the foundation.
There it is.
It talks about how Cayman law requires a supervisor and blah, blah, blah.
International Protectors and Advisors is the founder of the foundation.
And the foundation has engaged IPA to serve as a supervisor.
So IPA starts staffing the board and the founders and all of that.
But I can't figure out who owns IPNA.
There's some connections I think I've located that links it back to ICSL or maybe Travers,
maybe even Maples Group.
You'll see that there's a lot of collaboration, but I can't figure it out.
So I'm not going to name.
I'm not going to go much deeper than that.
In any case, whatever their association is in terms of who owns it, they are the people
who start staffing the founder, the director, secretary, supervisor and officer positions
that's required in the foundation corporation legal entity that's been stood up for the
Dow.
Okay, so that right there is the legal process for how the Dow sandbox Dow Foundation came
to be in the Cayman Islands.
All right.
So what is a what is our Saki you're going to do next?
At this point, let's just hide the second window.
Cool.
So what is our Saki Oh going to do next?
Well they're going to create a tech stack.
And that tech stack looks a lot like the coin Dow Foundation tech stack.
Probably not surprising because the the Dow administrator has said in previous am a's
that they took a lot of lessons learned from different Dows of which a coin Dow was a inspiration.
So not surprising that they're using discourse and and a website and snapshot.
So they create a tech stack.
And then what do you do once you have a tech stack?
He starts bringing in building out the Dow more.
So he brings in people to on as special counsel members and advisory board members.
While in the tech stack linking it to the voting process so they then technically link
that for the token holders of the San token and the NFT the land.
So one San equals one voting power and one land equals 4500 voting power.
I'm going to cover that more in an episode linking ecosystem to the Dow and its voting
process and all that.
So it'll be a separate separate one from the inspection and the review of the Constitution.
This one's going to be more centered on ecosystem and how the Dow functions.
Okay so there we are.
So I'm not going to I'm not going to worry about that right now.
All we need to worry about is there is a tech stack and that tech stack is linked to the
NFT tokens and the San token and that makes the world go round for the the Dow end user
where we actually touch.
Okay.
All right.
So here we are.
We have an admin team.
We have a legal entity.
We have a leadership board, special counsel and advisory board.
We have a tech stack that links to the ecosystem.
What now is the Dow admin team to do to make the Dow go to turn on the engine?
Well, you bring about the sips one through three.
The Dow, the sips Dow one through three were the Dow budget, the Dow foundation and the
the sandbox Dow ecosystem.
Actually, this look.
So sip number one was introducing the sandbox Dow.
Introducing the sandbox Dow.
Sit number two was the sandbox foundation and sit number three was the initial budget
for the Dow.
Okay, so you can start to see kind of how it all it's all starting to come together.
So sips number one, two and three are introduced in May of 2024.
All right, so that that was the launching of the Dow as we saw it.
But actually, the Dow had been launched a lot sooner.
It had been worked on.
So when you heard in the AMA some early AMA's, the Dow administrator and in the sandbox
founder seven zero, they mentioned a number of times that they had been working on the
Dow.
They had been putting on a lot of effort.
This is what that effort was.
The piecing together of all the entities and the groups, the Dow foundation, the tax act,
the board members, the staffing of the admin team, all of these things coming together.
Right.
Until finally, you can present it to the community for vote sips one, two and three.
We already talked about sips one, two and three very early on.
And the sandbox Dow, I'm sorry, the sand out podcast, we talked about it, and they launch
it through a medium article and a bunch of AMA's.
So that's how you connect it to the ecosystem.
You put up the sips in the.
Put up the sips over here in in snapshot, and then you launch it through an article
to introduce to the ecosystem so that everyone knows what to do, where to go, how to work
up, do something with it.
Okay, and we covered that over here in episode number one.
It all started May 20.
It actually started a long time ago because the white paper.
So this was my very first episode, right?
First episode four months ago on June 17.
And you and even then we had known that that through the AMA's that they had been working
on it behind the scenes without the community knowing about it for many months before.
And the original vision of Seb was that the Dow would eventually be introduced, but it
really hadn't emerged in any sort of significant way until May 28.
Was that two weeks ago?
There we go.
So what was then two weeks ago?
I did my first podcast episode two weeks later when it was announced, and that's what started
us down this train to where we are now.
Sandow podcast episode 34.
That ain't like a throw.
For all my Spanish speakers.
So that was episode one.
So yeah.
So yeah, you have now a admin team, a legal entity, a tech stack connection to the ecosystem.
It's been announced.
And now you have the SIPs that are ready to vote and people start voting.
And this is where I'd like to take a pause.
So this right here, this little section here that you're seeing, I like to call this my
my triangle of confusion, because it's still very unclear the relationships and how everything
works between the foundation and the council and the admin team.
The SIPs kind of brought into being what they had done, but it's still very unclear like
how all the relationships work together.
I might have to do an update podcast in the future, but for now, my triangle of confusion
is still how the founders and the directors interact with the special council and advisory
board members.
I've reached out to every special council member at this point, all of them, and I've
only been able to secure an interview with Seb, just the one.
So the the other four, the other four special council members, I've been unable to interview
them so far.
Some of them haven't been able to get back to me.
Some of them have declined to interview.
So Bobby, if you're watching, I hope that you can come to rest your on that, whether
by putting in a good word or just having them on your podcast, either or, please, we'd love
to know who what the special council does.
We know what the advisory board does because I've interviewed me about and Dr. Loretta
Chen and I feel like they're I've reached out to other advisory board members, but I
haven't been able to secure an interview with them either.
But for the two that I did interview, it was pretty clear they don't have they don't meet
together on a regular basis.
They meet as needed.
And then Cyril clarified that the Dow administrator clarified in a forum response earlier today
and yesterday that that he kind of does some informal one on one meets with the special
council doesn't meet with the advisory board as much as he'd like to, although in the future,
maybe that will change.
And I'm not really sure how the advisory board worked for the special council, except that
it doesn't really.
That was confirmed by by my two podcasts interviews with the advisory board that they don't meet
regularly.
They don't really talk to the special council.
So I'm kind of unsure how everything pieces together on a day to day basis, except that
the Dow admin team working with Fleet Collective and Carton Group staffs that and does things
like the SIP reviews and all that sort of stuff.
And there's more.
I'll cover that in a future episode on the Dow ecosystem.
So but that's my triangle of confusion.
I'm still not exactly sure on what the relationship is, who answers to who and and all that one
day one day.
OK, so here we are.
relationship map almost fleshed out, but we're not done yet.
There's still a little bit more to go.
So what comes after this?
Oh, I covered episode 33, right?
Episode 33 was my introduction to the sandbox ecosystem.
It tried to approach this, but it mostly dealt with the people products and the purpose.
My note here was that it's not clear what the relationship is between the special council
and the Dow admin team.
Is there any position that the special council does not have authority over?
So that that's something that stuck out to me as I read that sentence.
That was that that was only wow.
That was only four days ago.
Geez.
So that was Sandel podcast 33.
That was my my review of the Dow medium article that published and Dow medium article was
an update to the SIP process and update to the way ahead and I had a number of of comments
questions that I posted and the Dow team is answering.
So it takes time.
I had a lot of questions.
There were a lot of questions.
If you had looked at the medium article, there are a lot of questions that need to be clarified
and that sort of thing.
So that we're working through that.
But that was only just four days ago.
That's funny.
So yeah, episode 33 four days ago.
It's still confusing to me.
But we'll work through it, especially now that Bobby Kunta episode 32 introduced Bobby
Kunta.
He introduced himself what maybe a few days ago, four days ago, something like that.
And he is the communications manager.
So very excited, Bobby.
Very happy you're here.
Cool.
Episode 33.
Now what's the next step?
What else do we need to know about the Dow relationship map?
Well, as you may or may not have known yet, Sue, chairman of of animal grounds, he was
on the special counsel of the ape foundation back when it launched in March of 2022.
He is no longer on the eight found, excuse me, the special counsel for the eight point
Dow.
But he is, however, special counsel for sandbox, Dow foundation, I'm sorry, foundation, the
sandbox Dow special counsel.
Okay.
So that's the first note.
And that linkage probably is not surprising, because he is the chairman of the board for
animal grounds based out of Hong Kong Virgin Islands.
I'm not really sure when I searched up the business listings for animal grounds, I got
a lot of business listings all over the place.
It seemed like there was a big animal grounds company listed in the Virgin Islands.
But also there is a what looked like a headquarters in Hong Kong, kind of unsure of the corporate
structure.
So whatever the corporate structure is, the chairman of the board is yet Sue.
Right?
You do you be forgiven to think that and a mocha brands owns the sandbox company, as
if you look on their website, sandbox.game.
And then you scroll down to the bottom of the page.
Scroll over to you can't see it very well.
So if you scroll on, there we go.
So if you scroll to the bottom right of the page, you'll see subsidiary of an amoka brands.
So you would be forgiven if you thought that an amoka brands owns the sandbox.
However, that's not exactly true.
An amoka brands does kind of I mean, through extension does own the sandbox company.
But legally speaking, the an amoka brands owns a Casablanca global limited.
Baca sable I thought was Spanish actually turns out Baca sable is Baca sable is French
pronounced Baca sable Baca sable Baca sable and it means in French sandbox, sandpit, go
figure.
So the an amoka brands owns a Casablanca.
Yeah, thank you, Sepia.
It says in the chat it means sandbox.
They Baca sable global limited is registered in Malta, which is in the which is in like
south of Italy in the Mediterranean.
And we know that they're connected to an amoka brands because in the first sentence of the
recent announcement where sandbox announced 20 million funded by where we go.
So in the in the announcement press release where the sandbox recently announced 20 million
funding at a $1 billion valuation and that was in just I think it's just a few months
ago it was in the first sentence there it is June 2024.
Not that long ago.
The first sentence reads an amoka brands Corporation Limited.
refer to as an amoka brands the company advancing digital property property rights for the open
metaverse and its subsidiary Baca sable global limited operator of the sandbox.
So connection made.
And they're not hiding it.
It's part of the press release.
So Baca sable global limited is owned by an amoka brands.
And if you search Malta's registry.
The sandbox is actually called TSB gaming limited.
It used to be registered in Paris until 2022 when its registry was transferred to the jurisdiction
of Malta.
And then here you go you can see Malta registration date and TSB gaming limited.
Its share capital if you look at its share capital excuse me that's an involvement page
you can see who the involved parties are but more importantly.
Its primary shareholder who owns 100% of the company the sandbox gaming limited Baca sable
global limited owns all the shares so in effect owns TSB gaming limited.
So there you go.
TSB gaming limited is the name of the sandbox company.
So when I say sandbox company I'm at what I actually mean I didn't even know this until
this episode really that when we say TSB gaming limited we're actually saying the sandbox
company and when you say the sandbox company you're actually referring to TSB gaming limited
which is owned by Baca sable global limited which is owned by an amoka brands.
So there you go.
Look at that all fitting together now.
Beautiful beautiful this is what took me days of no sleep and researching and googling and
all sorts of things trying to piece stuff together reading corporate documents delving
into the weeds.
This is what took me so long to figure out.
And yeah so we started with this we all we knew was the sandbox company the sandbox dial
foundation there was a special counsel yet Sue was a part of the special counsel advisory
board you may or may not known yet Sue was chairman of an amoka I certainly didn't know
that really until not even like a few months ago when I really started researching the
Dow I really didn't know and amokas place and the sandbox company I had no idea I did
I knew the name and amoka but I didn't really know what they were or who they were not until
I started researching interviews I like many sand fan people I was worried about the ecosystem
I was just worried about game maker and playing the game and the rewards and and I was just
worried about that stuff I wasn't worried about who owned what and who did what not
until the business end of the sandbox came full-fledged into the ecosystem in the form
of the Dow because I'm a business person and I had no I had no need to really work the
business and except for publishing experiences until the Dow which represents to me the perfect
ecosystem a purpose intersection of gaming community and business of which I love so
much so I am now heavily involved in sandboxed out and I pivoted as soon as it was announced
in May 28th I had no idea it was gonna happen just like everyone else and boom so that's
where we started and that is where we ended after we became much more knowledgeable about
all the groupings okay so are we done no we're not we're not done yet and the reason why
we're not done yet is because of those numbers I was throwing up earlier in the podcast you
remember how I mentioned how it kept on throwing up a number every time I said the word Cayman's
all right I ended up getting up to one two three four five six six mentions of Cayman's
carton group Cayman's maple groups is in the Cayman's Traverse Thorpe al-Burga law firm
is in the Cayman's ICSL is in the Cayman's IPA is in the Cayman's eight coin Dow also
in the Cayman's but you know okay but the more important thing is that sandboxed out
foundation is in the Cayman's six references to the Grand Cayman Islands and as I started
researching and and that started popping up I was trying to figure out why was that why
is the Cayman's popping up so much so part two of my my talks are my investigations my
analysis was why is the Cayman's so involved in the doubt all right here's why when we
say the Cayman's we're actually talking about the Grand Cayman Islands and if you we need
our help we need we need help from our friends at Google again to help figure this one out
specifically Google Maps now if you were to drop a list of everyone who's been involved
so far carton group IPA ICSL the law firm the Maples group fleet collective you'll and
you start listing out where are they located where is their place of business you know
cartons group is in the Cayman's they're on Martin's Market Street international protectors
and advisors IPA they're the ones who staff the founders and secretary positions they're
in Georgetown in the Cayman's ICSL there and they're in oh yeah IPA I couldn't find a actual
address but they're in Georgetown that's all I could find without paying extra money to
a website that would tell me yeah so public right I see a cell there in the Cayman's Travers
Torp and Alburga they're in the Cayman's Harbor place Maples group they're in two parts of
the Cayman's and fleet collective I still have no idea where they are could not figure
it out I think I spent like two hours maybe an hour or two trying to figure out where
fleet collective was I know they started out in Paris but I don't think they're theirs
I think they're also in California and other places but they have people all over the place
hence them being you know a fleet of over a thousand fleet freelancers that the admin
team helps staff the admin team so in any case in any case Google Maps it right you
start Google Maps scene where where everyone is and I mentioned earlier ICSL you know they're
related because on Dundon Bradstreet the key principal is listed as the same person who
is listed and the law firm as a managing partner so link link there oh right now so keep going
Google Maps so when you draw the search you come up with here Grand Cayman Islands looks
pretty cool it's nice little island kind of squished right but it's wide you know and
when you start pumping in start putting in the the the listings whoops my bad let me
go back sorry like I said Grand Cayman Islands when you start pulling up some Google images
you start seeing some cool stuff like look at this look at this beautiful beautiful waters
the buildings are like multicolored pretty cool looking buildings I mean that that looks
aesthetically pleasing and then you could go up a little bit you'll see the suburbs
and the residential area and it doesn't look all that crowded nice little architecture
framework building a little bit of downtown going on over here but looks like residential
apartments and office buildings and stuff right okay looks pretty cool so looks beautiful
I've never been but looks beautiful but when you start popping in everyone's address you
start to see it take you to the same part of the island down there in the bottom bottom
left right specifically takes you to Georgetown right we already kind of knew one of them
was in Georgetown the International Protectors and Advisors the people who staff the sandbox
Dow Foundation they're in Georgetown that's the only only town I could get I couldn't
get a street name or anything like that without paying extra money but everyone else I could
figure out it was publicly available what their what their addresses were but it takes
you to Georgetown located in the bottom left of the island okay so everyone turned out
to be in Georgetown all except Fleet Collective don't know where they are still don't know
where they are so yeah Georgetown everybody's in Georgetown and I thought oh okay fascinating
not only is Cayman Islands popping up six times right many different key players within
the Dalles formation not only are they on the same island they're also in the same town
okay keep going so Cayman Islands let's zoom out for a second yeah Cayman Islands is is
not that big like if you were to zoom out where it is it's south of Cuba Cuba and west
of Jamaica it's north of Central America which is Honduras Belize Guatemala El Salvador Nicaragua
all of that so it's in there in the Caribbean Sea it's a small island it's it's tiny like
Jamaica is bigger than the Cayman Islands so you're not really like I can't remember
you maps it I think you could get from one into the other in an hour or two it's not
that big so you can kind of be it's a small island which means that there are a lot of
people who understandably probably know each other and and so not alarming that everything
is in you know the the same town Georgetown but turns out not only is it in the same town
but almost all of them are headquartered on the same street specifically South Church
Street which is a pretty long street right pretty long street it goes around the southern
portion of Georgetown kind of like kind of goes all the way around the end but yeah Church
Street okay so they're all on the same tree street but again it's a tiny island it's a
it's a town in the island and so you know there probably aren't too too many streets
and I guess if you start Google Maps seen it a little bit and then you start putting
down some some markers and oh gosh darn it so what what just happened when you Google
Maps all the key players it turns out that not only are they in the same town on the
same island in the same town on the same street they're right next to each other they're next
door neighbors right so let's let's pick this apart the law firm is in the same building
as the corporation that helped draw up the the documents and that are that's the registered
office which is in the same building I think I'm pretty sure for the oops didn't uh don't
know this for certain but it's a pretty good guess right I feel comfortable saying that
is in the same building as the staff for the the founder and the secretary and all that
probably the same building but definitely in the same town and the nomenclature matches
I mean it's just it's it's probably true all right so same building which is harbor place
harbor place is a building and that is that big blue one remember how in the beginning
they had that big big beautiful picture right little did we know we were staring at most
of the dow's foundation right there right there okay and then the photo credit you know
I found this picture I went to the law firm and I saw it there when I was trying to google
google some good pictures this was just too beautiful to pass up so yeah little easter
egg but the law firm and the secretary's registered office is in the same building and it's
likely in the same building as the rest of the staff for the foundation the director
the secretary and the founder and all that but also it is two buildings over it now this
one is a little bit confusing because google maps says that this middle building is maples
group but if you if you do a little bit of street view it actually turns out this one
right here is the front end of of the oogland house which is the official registration of
of the maples group and again the maples group was the one who probably who hired or or tapped
the law firm to strop all the all the documents for the foundation okay now their second place
of business the boundary hall is only a three minute drive from oogland house okay which
is also only an eight minute drive from the carton group again the carton group is part
of the admin team so there you go the grand cayman islands popping up so much in the sandbox
dow foundation most of the entities live right next to each other i say live work are headquartered
right next to each other okay so revelation okay i want to take it uh take a step and
say that serial did answer quite a number of questions that i posted um so that helped
out tremendously thank you so much and reminded me of some things about sips two and three
which played a part all of which i'm mostly going to cover in the next episode when it
comes to the dow constitution articles of incorporation and and so on and so forth so
but back to grand cayman islands let's get the elephant out into the room all right we're
web three people if you've been around crypto people for a long time you know we're all
about things like undisclosed payments and the illuminati and the secret cabal and the
tapestry and all sorts of stuff that is weaving into this people pulling the strings yeah
so if you looked at this situation you'd be forgiven if you thought there's some weird
funky suspicious things are going on but on the balance of things when i sat down and
i started listing out what was the balance of judging whether or not a conspiracy is
a foot here i i don't think so i don't think that's what's happening all right so you you
all can draw your own conclusions about whether or not a conspiracy is at play i don't think
so and here's why so when i judge whether conspiracy is a foot and let's look at the
what is the legal term for conspiracy it's not mince words here all right so conspiracy
as defined by google can be described generally as a sort of partnership in crime legally
a conspiracy exists when two or more persons join together and form an agreement to violate
the law and then act on that agreement so what are we talking about when it comes to
business conspiracy or we're mostly talking about fraud waste abuse controlling interest
without disclosure and a general directing or redirecting of the original intent of something
so like we we want this to be the voice of the people the voice of the ecosystem of sanfam
a conspiracy might involve the people pulling the strings behind doors to really render
that all invalid so that our vote doesn't matter so that if we do vote then it doesn't
really make a difference because the people who control the entity the legality of it
can then just decide what they want and they have the authority to go do it and use the
dow funds and all of our money as payment all right so that's what i'm talking about
when i say judging of conspiracy i'm talking about the more interesting version of how
does that affect what we're doing in the dow do we really matter yeah all right so on the
one hand you have secret illuminati cabal controlling everything you know that that
cabal is well known in the web 3 you know the the the whales are are accused of being
a illuminati cabal the business interests all sorts of people right so when i started
listing it out here here is ex sebga i think you're right sebga in the chat said i think
it's more for legal reasons and centralization uh we'll get to that because that's part of
what uh the other hand is i'm really looking at two different outcomes here one is something
that reasonable people would do reasonable people would do to protect business interests
to protect people all sorts of stuff legal concerns and things that are reasonable all
right on the other hand you have a secret illuminati cabal controlling interests fraud
ways behind the scenes all sorts of stuff pulling strings okay so let's list it out
and i'm just going to be brutally honest all right there's no mincing of words here let's
just get it out the secret illuminati cabal what would lead someone to believe that in
san fam and things that i've heard the community say a number one is there was no transparency
in what happened all right the dow just emerged out of nowhere i didn't even know what a dow
was until may 28th when it was suddenly announced through amas and articles and it was just
thrust upon everyone all right so there was no transparency and even in the amas there
was you could not have guessed that that everyone was next door to each other in the cayman
islands and oops i just messed up my there we go you could not have guessed that everyone
was next door to each other in the cayman islands and that the relationship map looked
like this you you wouldn't be able to figure that out without i mean if i had known if
if it had been public i would have not had to do this episode but i had to do this episode
because the biggest complaint of the community thus far is there was very little transparency
on how all this came about for whatever reasons that's what happened okay the second thing
is just as important as the first one and arguably i hear more complaints and more people
angry about this one than the first one is that there was an excessive urgency to vote
and rush everything into existence all right here's what i mean the dow was announced may
28th the same day five sips were thrust on the community to vote all right we talked
about that a little bit earlier a different podcast but we can remind everyone here back
in the score card excuse me the scoreboard right five sips right five sips were thrust
on the community at the same time all right so we look at the dow the road back to the
dow that's probably an easier one to do here we go the road to the dow i show this every
once in a while i keep it up to date because of how important it is to just keep my bearings
in all of this right so the dow was announced may 28th right it was announced via medium
article sips one through three immediately the day of called to vote so a 14 day period
for sips one two and three to be voted on and then it was either accepted or rejected
right uh okay six four and five came out on june 12th so that was two weeks later six
four and five came out to vote those were not important to the formation of the dow
six one two and three were the budget the legal entity and the the board so six one
two and three 14 day period started that day the same day people who didn't know what a
dow was on may 27th now is told they need to vote because they own land and uh they
own land and they have sand tokens so they're being asked to vote and the dow that they
didn't know was coming and now sips one two and three multiple pages worth of documents
oh by the way there's about what 20 30 pages worth of legal documents to read to figure
out what in the world is going on yeah it's a lot a lot for people so people are angry
very very angry they're upset that they weren't consulted in the formation of the dow uh and
rightly so the dow is supposed to be for the people by the people in the ecosystem and
the people were not consulted at all uh we know who's consulted now so there we go um
and then a bunch of amas happened right so that's where twitter spaces amas um all of
that starts coming out uh msc nsc lisbon happened so there's a fireside chat there very interesting
to listen to uh and some shed some light it was more of a press conference than it was
actually explaining what happened with the dow so many people were left unsatisfied with
that because it seemed more like the dow was announced may 28th and then fireside chat
came out was like oh hey we have a dow it's so great and then the community is like what
the world is a dow so the press release happened at the same time as the dow announcement making
it seem like everything's cool whereas the community is like what is going on
all right so two weeks uh two weeks later on june 12th uh because of some sandbox uh because
of the huge backlash since one two and three were resubmitted um and and there was some
technical issues with snapshot happened okay fine so sips form five ended up closing before
the resubmissions of sips one two and three which closed uh june 13th it passed 89 yes 93 yes and
64 yes so sip three passed uh only with 64 that was the budget
at this point the community is just bewildered they're flummoxed they are overwhelmed they're
mad they're angry all if you read the tweets and the discourse it is brutal it is so brutal
people don't know who serial is because he just came out of the woodwork as the dow administrator
people know who seb is but we mostly don't know who the sandbox dow admin uh the sandbox dow
special counsel is except for some high profile names like shannon snow who is world of women and
and um and yatsu who's chairman of and mocha brands but we don't know who federic montagnot is
you would know if you were really really delved into the depths of it you'd know that he helped
launch some uh some nft projects connected to arian arian arian um and so you might know
shannon snow because of world of women um but you wouldn't you wouldn't know uh most of you
wouldn't know the rest of the advisory board uh some of which are deeply involved as studios
um but as a regular gamer you you don't know most of these people so confusion and anger
all over the place right at the urgency a two-week period a two-week period we suddenly have a 15.5
million sand budget to start voting on pushing sips out to business proposals business interests
and oh by the way we learned not only is there a a bunch of sips that are ready for us to vote
and bringing up the dow into existence but also
there are tons of sips right on its heels for people who knew about the dow ahead of time
uh mostly the sandbox inner circle of the the say inner circle it's not the right word the sandbox
company team so they knew about it so they had written a bunch of sips a bunch of sips that
that were now going to be put to vote over the course of the the sip timeline and we got a bunch
of them the the carbon capture red cross magic palette sip number six was the first community one
that passed uh staking budget that was a that was a sandbox team sip sandbox ambassador that was a
sandbox team sip sandbox academy that was a community one by mark bago uh that was he's
passed fortunately but also the ones that didn't pass that were given to us was the game jan
parasitity jam uh nft collection nomination by arthmore i love arthmore by the way i really hope
he resubmits i think uh i think just the anger of the initial dow phase overroad the reasonable
approach that arthmore and his team were going to bring to the sandbox nft collection that was going
to be transferred to the dow i don't know if that actually happened i need to follow up with that
um but then the blockchain events so all the 2024 events that were happening in asia and latin america
that was not passed nft evolution that was a community one and then resizing was mine
and metaverse and disability hiring was a community by community set by meta futura but the
vast majority of them the vast majority of them were sandbox team sips who knew about it in the
the many months ahead of the announcement of the doubt and the in may okay so all of that to say
people are angry people are so angry so angry that many are refusing to participate there some of
them are just voting no just because they they don't like what's happening they they feel that
there are there's a conspiracy going on that whales not even whales at this point the inner
team of the sandbox is controlling things people are hearing founders and and and directors and
admins don't know what's going on who's who's connected to what now we do have a much better
idea but that urgency so people are digging in their heels say we need more talking all right
and also turns out um there's a lot of overlap so in my research when i started talking i'm not
talking when i started and researching and analyzing what's happened turns out a lot of
people know each other right so if you delve into the work history of a lot of the people involved
especially in the cayman islands it's a small island it's a small island a lot of people used
to work in the same companies so a lot of them know each other even though they're in different
entities you know they grew up on the same island they you know georgetown seems to be a hub of
business activity a lot of people know each other also same street hqs that's an eyebrow razor
for sure if you are into a secret illuminati cabal perspective same street hqs even though
they're different legal entities also offshore businesses just kind of read wrong to begin with
you're you're doing all the offshore accounting offshore legal entities it's just too too much
obscurity ambiguity nondisclosures and and that just breeds resentment and suspicion that there's
a secret illuminati cabal going on and also there's the the old wisdom of absolute power
of absolute power corrupts absolutely which is basically saying that there's a sliding scale for
when you initially start out really good you want this great big thing to happen but then all of
these different interests start creeping in different people with different authorities
different different monies and wallets that they're they're wanting to to see happen their own
interests don't necessarily align with the the intent of what was originally founded for a dao
or an organization and then that that sliding scale happens to greed and opportunism so you
would be forgiven if you thought that there was a secret illuminati cabal afoot because there wasn't
transparency on what happened there wasn't an there there was a huge excessive urgency for people
to vote things into into being that they didn't understand lots of overlap between people working
together in the previous histories they're in the same place for a lot of the key parts of the dao
you're hearing the word offshore businesses cayman islands some sorts of things that that some
unfortunate things have happened in terms of high profile fraud, waste, and abuse scandals and then
the old adage absolute power corrupts absolutely and that sliding scale to to personal greed and
personal opportunism so that's on one side i just spent a long time talking about it but i want to
give it its due course because i believe that some of this is true there wasn't transparency
there was an excessive urgency they are on the same street quite literally they are offshore
businesses when it comes to the sandbox limited and all of the other corporations at play right
there are offshore businesses and the only one that i won't ascribe it into is the sliding scale
to greed and opportunism while that is generally a rule in history i won't attribute that to the
people involved you know they're people just like us and if you delve down deep into it i think what
you'll find is that that a lot of them are new to sand fam the dao administrator is new to sand fam
i found no record of him being involved in the sandbox family before the dao right so uh also
kind of new to dao a lot of people are new to dao i'm new to dao i didn't even know dao was before
may but the people the dao itself uh the very first dao was in 2016 called the dao it was based
on the ethereum chain but daos were not a big thing back then and i was there in 2016 uh not
with the dao but daos were not part of it you know nfts didn't even really become a thing until 2020
so people didn't really even know what daos were and so most of us knew the daos so a lot of the
people who are staffed also their work histories looked like they weren't they weren't haven't been
in daos very long either some of them looked very new to web three as in they were in normal
industry whether it be banking or traditional finance or just web two product development
not web three product development so they're new and also the whole small island thing kind
of gives off a small town feel very much a if you grew up in a small town you know this if you grew
up in a city you might not small towns people know people you know the the person who owns the
convenience store down the road is the you know their their brother is the or their sister or
their aunt or cousin is you know works as an administrator in the local school and that person
is that person's cousin is part of the local pta like their things just kind of happen because
each person is their own person and just because you have a principal of a school who has cousins
with a bank owner down the street doesn't mean that there's suspicious activity going on it just
means that there aren't there isn't much biodiversity let's call it family names like you would find in
a city where your next door neighbor has a different name a different lineage is not related
to you whatsoever in a small town many times next door that's where your cousins live so it's just
a different way of life between a small town and and and small and big town feel but also more
importantly i've learned through owning my own businesses and and being a serial entrepreneur
for over 10 years now publishing novels to amazon music to itunes it's so easy once you figure it
out and you and you look in to the details of you can publish your first novel to amazon within 48
hours and it's as easy as creating a facebook page it once you put in the hard work of creating the
novel like writing it um but actual publishing is not hard at all so what i found is through my own
i used to own a gaming subsidiary all sorts of stuff that's how i was able to publish experiences
and come to the table ready made to help the sandbox game uh through game maker and box editor
and all that what you figure out is that trust is key to business you you go with who you trust with
there are a lot of stories out there a lot of people who say they're going to do something for
you say they're going to build you a product um a lot of us know in the dow even proposals people
say they're gonna they're gonna build the biggest bestest thing and all they need is a low cost fee
of two million bucks right trust is key if you're gonna spend the money especially the sort of money
that a dow wants to spend any indication the eight coin dow used to have a billion dollar budget a
billion dollars 1.3 billion right if you if you math out its token supply and tokenomics and
it's billion dollars and it's been spending hundreds of millions of dollars
hundreds of millions writing checks for hundreds of millions tens of millions
big numbers right trust is key you want to know who you're doing business with because just
it's scams aren't just a web three thing scams happen fraud waste abuse you want to make sure
you trust the person that you're that you're about to ink a contract with for them to provide
services it's it's not just that it's reputation it's all sorts of things um but also what i did
not know i like many people used to think that offshore businesses were related to like people
who want to hide stuff like if you watch the show billions or whatever that offshore businesses
where you go to hide things uh turned out that's actually not the case if you if you educate
yourself on the pros of the what the cayman business environment offers you it offers
it offers flexibility it offers a neutral territory for you to do business with people like
if you have a person in the united states and a person in france you what territory what what
territory do you do business in where is your legal entity supposed to be if you do it in france are
you are you worried that the french government uh with language you don't speak will will show
favoritism toward your french partner or whatever so where do you do it maybe you do it in a neutral
territory that will look at both partners the same and not favor one or the other the cayman
islands offers such an arrangement and it's very very tax lenient meaning it doesn't for the people
doing business in caymans or has a business project with caymans you do not have to pay taxes
on cayman island stuff unless you're american if you're an american you are taxed globally so those
are american tax laws but in cayman tax laws if you are if you are a country that's not
taxed in another country that's not taxed and you do business in the caymans you're not taxed
because neither your country nor the cayman islands requires taxing of personal income
personal income capital gains none of that is taxed so i did not really know the know that
and that's and also you can you can form a business in about 24 hours to a week i was looking at some
of the websites are specialized and staying up a business in a short amount of time so you have a
short amount of time and you have a very friendly business environment where your taxes are minimal
to none that is uh that's a lot of reasons to to do business in a place like that especially if you're
a dao um where you have a lot of communities involved a lot of stakeholders a lot of people
who demand different things of you and and you want flexibility for how to operate a business
and in a stable business environment um so that brings us to number seven the navigate foundation
the foundation companies act of 2017 and the company act of 20 2003 i mentioned earlier that
the foundation sandbox dial foundation wasn't just a noun describing the the sandbox down
now it's an adjective that describes a type of corporation similar to an llc or a c corp or an
s corp in the america in america it is a type of corporation it's type of company i'm going to
cover this in my next podcast episode i'm not going to delve into it much here we're really
talking about what happened and the only reason i'm bringing it up now is because of what reasonable
people would do there is a massive amount of flexibility afforded a web three company through
something called a foundation company which is what the sound the sandbox dao is sandbox dao
foundation the sandbox foundation is a type of foundation company and with it it gives you a
lot of flexibilities that afford you um the ability to have a a dao ecosystem with changing special
council members and advisory board members and changing founders and leaders and a changing
process for spending money and all of that has to be very nimble right so what i learned is that
when i read the foundation companies act and the companies act 2003 there is a lot of flexibility
and speed it offers you a lot of speed to act and then it offers you a lot of flex a lot of
openness for taxing and not being taxed so there's just a lot of what looked like good reasons why
why we we ended up in the cayman islands definitely not the only place we could have been we could have
been in the u.s we could have been in france france we could have been anywhere really but
they decided on cayman i'm islands because of the pros of that business environment
and those acts that support it and last but certainly not least and sebga says in the chat
and france it's pretty complex you you can even not mint an asset with a random rarity for the
same price okay so yeah in france it's pretty complex he says so ockham's razor what is ockham's
razor ockham's razor is a principle of theory constructed evaluation according to which among
other things being equal it posits fewer entities or fewer kinds of entities are preferred to
explanations that posit more what does that mean it means that the simplest explanation is usually
the right one all right so what does that mean here let's just think for a second right you're
seb you have a thriving ecosystem you you are responsible to hundreds of thousands of token
holders how do you stand up a corporation which has i'm sorry corporation how do you stand up
a dow which has been played with scams and rugs pulls and all sorts of stuff how do you avoid that
so what do you do you hire people that you think can get the job done and those people hire people
who are knowledgeable having previously done things before in that arena in an environment that looks
open to all of the rules and associations and stuff that has to happen in a dow with
improvement proposals and spending budget money so simply put ockham's razor the most what i thought
about it the most easy explanation there was was that seb wanted the dow all right seb wanted this
done the dow created so he hired someone that he found locally someone who was in france with him
that person is new to both the sand fam and dow's and so he hired people around him who could help
him build it that led us to the cayman islands that led us to san ox dow foundation company
are there people trying to pull the strings i don't think so everyone that i found and i found a lot
of them had some sort of ockham's razor simple reason for being there many of them had public
blogs that you can read they've been in many open twitter spaces that you can listen to
um the people the carton group the cartan as they call themselves they have an open twitter
space and marcom's and and you can listen to their reasons for how they ran the eight point dow
you can listen to it and it's excellent knowledge a lot of edu a lot of education going on there
that tells you why the cayman's island why they're doing business in the cayman's island
they they go through it step by step as this the dow's are new dow's are getting sued which they
are by the way the u.s government sued a dow uh and and they won by the way the u.s government
sued a dow and they won so the it's not obvious how you should do a dow so you hire people that
you know to go do things that you need done and those people hire people they know in places that
they know they can get it done that's how you end up with the dow foundation company in the cayman's
staffed by corporations in the cayman's who are all next door to each other
i could be wrong there there could be a secret illuminati cabal thing going on here
that's absolutely that could be the case i don't think so though i don't think that's what's
happening i think when you you get down to it it looks like this
it looks like this it's reasonable people doing reasonable things
that's my opinion right now based on the analysis i did of the facts there could be new facts that
come to light in the future which would change that analysis and it might weigh this left side
a lot heavier who knows but i'm not going to start there i didn't start there when i when i
went down this road and i didn't end there i was suspicious oh absolutely i was suspicious
there a lot of this red especially as the red started mounting especially when i got to number
four when they were on the same street and in the same building like oh gosh could you could it look
any worse um but but the ockham's razor it and then you look at all the reasons why it's a good
idea and and i think it weighs heavier than the bad idea the bad stuff looked like a pretty
reasonable thing okay so here we are again the dow relationship map are we done almost
i might want to stop this and then restart it because there is one more thing that we need to
go over and this this is incidental to us because it kind of gives you a crystal ball
um so in the beginning i said the eight point down right so the eight coin down was implicated in
all of this mostly through the carton group now why is that important to focus on because right now
and the reason why all this is happening is because of some things that happened as of as of late in
the eight point down the eight point down is in crisis it went from 1.3 billion dollars to under
to under to about 100 million in two years it spent over a billion dollars
and most people don't have anything to show for it they don't believe the community right now doesn't
believe they have anything to show for it they're they're in crisis mode okay so why is that important
to us well as you can see their tech stack looks similar to our tech stack their foundation looks
similar to our foundation the only difference is their foundation documents aren't public like ours
are so i applaud i applaud thank you so much to the dow admin team for making those documents
publicly available where i can scrutinize it shoot point questions throw spears i want to understand
right i want to understand we all want to understand everyone wants to understand right but
they've coined dow doesn't understand their documents aren't public i couldn't find their
their articles of incorporation or their memo of incorporation or their constitution anything like
that right but they're in crisis they went from 1.3 billion to 100 million and some things came
to light as of recently as of late that thrust all this into emergency mode for them now what
am i talking about before i get into this pretty deeply i need to make a disclosure right so ape
466 was proposed by derek derek smart as he's known he's an analytical guy he's been on this
podcast before okay so he was podcast not long ago podcast number 25 been on the outside shaping
the community showing what can be better what we can do better how we can adapt how we can grow
and those who are coming into this leadership positions can better learn a lot of people don't
seem to understand that you can actually do better from the outside then so that's that's derek very
analytical person love and the death i think he's he done wonders so that's first disclosure is
the person who authored this that led me down this path that the need to do this episode started
with the publishing of 8 466 which was a proposal to close all non-essential working groups so the
spawned a huge kerfuffle a a big spirited discussion among the eight coin dow participants
okay and during bulls on the block two weeks ago it led to a q a with one of the stewards
all right so this was in twitter space bulls on the block i talk about them at every podcast when
i go over spaces i talk about the discord the dow forums twitter youtube i also go over
bogaverse hall on mondays bulls on the block on saturdays coffee with captain monday through
friday whale members on tuesdays was natalie digital and san fam cafe monthly right so i'm
connected to these people by attending their stuff listening to them i'm plugging myself
into the dow communities not just sandbox but i'm only really involved in the sandbox dow okay
i'm not really involved in the other ones so um in bulls on the block in bulls on the block
a couple weeks ago during the october 12th one there was a q a that happened and that q a was
led by me i wasn't expecting to do a q a but one of the stewards came on and people were really
confused what's going on with 466 aip 466 and what happened and uh what started happening was i
started detecting that a lot of people did not know who who was doing what there was a massive
amount of confusion with the special counsel the ape foundation all this sort of stuff and as we
started doing the q a i discovered that a lot of what they were talking about was the
same as the sandbox dow and that this was a lesson learned that we could take for ourselves because
we could end up in the same boat as them two years from now so that pushed up my my analysis of the
sandbox dow and that was a lesson learned that we could take for ourselves because we could end up
in the same boat as them two years from now so that pushed up my my analysis of the sandbox
foundation reading of the articles and figuring out who was what and where okay important thing
to um important thing to to think about so that led me down this path two weeks ago i i made a
twitter post saying uh i learned some things i'm seeing some things over an ape coin dow i'm
concerned that's going to happen in our dow and i need to investigate this so that's what i did
two weeks ago i started this i i dug this back up from when i started it about sand out podcast five
and i dusted it off and i just went to work i went to straight up googling down to the nth degree
figuring out what i could figure out just start piecing it all together and that's what led to
this podcast yeah so i was researching the sandbox dow and i was surprised to find myself back at aip
one and as we learned the reason why i went back to aip one was because of the connection to the
kartan group didn't know what the kartan group was didn't even really know it was part of the
dow admin team until i started doing my research okay so why is this important to the disclosure
here's why um i mentioned this from time to time i'm actually i'm an ape i'm an ape holder
i i have a monkey jpeg so i don't really do much though i'm not involved in the ape coin dow i
think i might have voted on one or two and there's 400 i think they're at 468 aips by now i think i've
only voted on one or two of them i i just not it's not my arena that i want to be in the sandbox is
where i want to be the sandbox has the game side the business end of it oh all that i'm not in
communications with the ape coin foundation or i'm sorry the ape foundation or the ape special
council so i don't talk to them i am trying to interview one of them because of connections with
anamoka brands and how i want to learn from their experience and i think that the special they
sandboxed out can learn but i'm not in communication with them right now they haven't
i haven't been able to secure an interview with any of them i have less than 108 right so i'm not
monetarily incentivized here for the eight point down i am a bull on the block i have a bull
so that's that one down here
and i am a mocha so i have this right here so anamoka brands what we talked about earlier they
founded the mocha verse which has now the mocha dow it's about to launch i am a mocha so i will
be a little bit more involved in the mocha dow because they are a key voter in both ape coin
dow and in sandbox style and i will go over that in the future episode where i go over the the
sandbox down the ecosystem episode but i am i am almost exclusively sand fam i spend all my time
in the sandbox ecosystem i'm a sand fam through and through um yeah so those are my disclosure
statements right there so let's get into answering the question that i i said i would uh help out ape
foundations because as i went through the research a lot of stuff intersected with them so let's um
let's quickly go through this i'm not going to spend a ton of time on it i did not research it
to the nth degree like i did the sandbox stuff but a lot of what i researched it led me to the
conclusion of um the question who is running the eight point down who is running the ape foundation
and how is it all pieced together okay so let's do this if you are a ape person a coin dow
oh also um when i said i was a mocha uh allegedly the the apes have a problem monkey jpegs have a
problem with mochas i'm not really sure what the problem is i guess i don't spend a lot of time
in the mocha verse or in a coin dow um so i don't really know but yeah there's there's some tension
there not really sure why so carton group aip1 aip183 ape foundation special counsel a coin dow
tech stack what is going on what's happening um that's that q a that happened two weeks ago
and botv pulls in the block that happened because so many apes didn't and they went out didn't know
what's happening and so they were i i got kudos for that that q a which is basically me asking
question answer of one of the stewards to figure out what's happening and then realizing that oh
my gosh sandbox dow foundation is structured very similar to this we should do something about it
now while we have the benefit of time and lessons learned from apes um so in my research it led me
through the ape coin dow and in there i think i figured out what was happening what's going on
so it all begins with ape one let me change the right so we're just gonna we're gonna go through
this all right so it all begins with aip1 the very very first ape proposal to the ape coin dow it was
submitted by the carton group cartan excuse me cartan group back in march of 2022 now what's
important about this proposal is that this document proposes the structure of a decentralization
autonomous organization that will be governed by the holders of the ape coin dow okay and then some
other things then it gets into the ape foundation which will serve as a coin dow community and be
governed by it it aims to be the heart of our gaming blah blah blah okay keep going the foundation
serves the ape coin dow and fostering a community okay it wants to launch a product
and to achieve this it's going to participate in idea submission commentary all this sort of stuff
so this is how the ape coin dow comes about it is established all the guidelines um all the
board members may be removed and replaced a lot of this language is found in this in the same said
the same way in the the sandbox foundation talks about the total cost conflicts of interest all
sorts of things it starts coming up with the t terms so aip's there it is right there establishing
aip1 categories brands proposals all this stuff keep going keep going keep going keep going
proposal process ape idea ape draft analysis report moderation tagging admin review
live aip a process not dissimilar from our own final aip implementation key phrase right
specifications okay keep going keep going all right here we go
all right here we go overall cost total ape two million bucks two million us dollars is what was
paid to the kartan group to set up to come up with the aip process everything you see here
non-recurring costs for the first six months for the kartan group 150 000 us dollars a month
okay that's a key term that's key number that's going to buy the ape coin dow a discourse
enterprise account also compensation for um ape foundation board compensation each board member
receives 125 000 us dollars for the six month term all right so that's that's that's quite a bit of
money so the key thing here is that this aip established the kartan group as the dow administrator
for the ape foundation
to figure out how to purchase domains legal fees dow administration setup
discourse out of pocket expenses okay so that's aip1 then aip183 rolls around about six months
later when the renewal comes up the kartan needs to renew get renewed they're only on contract for
like six eight months all right so they come up with the renew and in the renewal they have
our abstract the current the kartan group trusted partners as outlined in a1 over the past eight
months we had the opportunity to serve the community and push forward the dow's long-term
vision we talked thousands of community members made new friends and collaborated blah blah blah
okay so here you go author and team description brian tang is one of the co-founders of kartan
he gives you his profile and has lots of experience okay so motivations
keep on going to motivations and then we get to the rationale foundation is a steward
of ape coin and the eight coin down members and its primary goal is to promote a diverse and
self-sustaining ecosystem foundation we're talking about the ape foundation right the legal entity
uses the ecosystem fund to meet its objectives and follow an approved governance process
while ape coin dow members can make their voices heard through the voting process the foundation
is ultimately a legal entity that requires a team to carry out its functions what are they talking
about they're talking about the ape foundation registered in the cayman islands staffed by the
kartan group and all of the other support staff and contracted service providers to help run
that legal entity that's what they're talking about let's continue aip 183 reads under rationale
these functions include facilitating decentralizing community-led governance
administering the decisions of the dow that's a key thing here just because they're all
approved you still have someone that's needed to administer it and administer it just means carry
it out so not only the aip aip author is responsible for administering the decisions
or carrying out a proposal you also have a whole back end a legal people all sorts of people
running the legal entity that has to now help administer it as well
continuing on and being responsible for day-to-day administration bookkeeping project management
and other operational tasks that ensure the community ideas have the support they need to
become a reality what are they saying there they're saying you are paying us to run the legal part of
this dow so that you can participate in the daily drama and the daily activities of proposals
all the spaces the drama of the discussions the heated debates on discord which is paid for and
administered by the ape dow ape foundation and all of the other support staff and all of the other
by the ape dow ape foundation people that was a fascinating read and this was before i even knew
what foundation company was before i even knew much about how the sandbox was structured i i
looked at this and i said holy smokes um i guess i was naive i didn't know that there was really
a legal entity behind a dow so i'll say that out loud there is a legal entity which is a company
a corporation that runs a dow it runs it it's responsible to a government it pays a tax
it does all sorts of stuff to exist that was news to me okay because i run my own companies in the
past i started connecting dots because if you have a company that means you have founding members you
have directors you have office as you have secretaries you have shareholders you have
stakeholders you have budgets you have filing with local government requirements compliance
standards regulatory issues all this it just starts to balloon all of the stuff required
to run a dow if it's a legal entity all right so then this aip 183 which is a proposal for
the kartan group to renew its contract with the with the eight coin dow and then expand some of
the operation because what they began aip one has changed a bit since aip 183 right so they've expanded
they list all the things that they've done right so beautiful beautiful they've administered a
snapshot for 5 000 voters right so we have 2000 okay 27 000 total votes have been made we've made
9 000 and over 174 million voting power we have a lot less than that i think i think the last count
was i don't remember i have to go back oh wait wait wait wait i know where i have a slide on this
i have a slide that calculated the total voting power because i needed to know that for one of my
one of my things what is ours oh oops ours is 779 million so almost a billion voting power
for the sandbox anyways neither here nor there for the apes so they have 174 million voting power
that's been exercised across over 183 proposals at this point and they've implemented discourse
topics so they've they've done forum moderation they've done restructuring they've done proposal
reviews they've done all sorts of stuff okay so they're they're trying to make their case for why
their contracts should be renewed okay reporting insights all sorts of stuff all sorts of stuff
corporate operations this one was interesting processing of invoices and payments and
reimbursements uh bookkeeping and preparation so when an aip author wants to get paid who do they
go to they're getting paid by the ape foundation which manages that has custody of the wallets
that's fascinating cool um not dissimilar for how the dow administrator clarified earlier in a forum
post uh that that they have access and custodial and custodial ship of wallets as well to pay
successful sip authors so magic palette how is magic palette being paid by a treasury wallet
that it has that the sandbox style has custody of and specifically i don't know this for certain
but it's certain to look like the ape that's giving me the sandbox dow foundation has custody
of that wallet in the cayman islands probably cold storage wallet who knows whatever it is whatever
their solution is uh one of the one of the spaces that i listened to for the apes the the
the the kartan group explained their custodial ship solution that they architected for the ape
foundation so that was having cold wallets and hot wallets and all sorts of stuff to
have a protected secure solution to guard against hacks and to pay people monies that the dow grants
this is actually starting to look like a very sophisticated system a sophisticated system that
a sophisticated system that can that can rep be represented in a court of law that can have good
record keeping and be compliant with government standards bringing it out of the shadows of of
web 3 early years into the the well-structured and public approach that needs to happen for web 3
entities to coexist among our web 2 friends right so it's starting to look pretty good
specifications lots of lots of things they want to do the management of the ape coin dot eat ens
domain so if you're wondering who owns ape coin dot eth it was the ape foundation is the ape
foundation maybe we'll get to that managing all sorts of quickbooks all sorts of things if you
run quickbooks for your own company ape foundation also had a quickbooks to um to google google
workspace for collaboration productivity i mean all of these things just tell you how it's run
the ape foundation right and then they were going to implement all right so the timeline was shall
go into effect one january 2023 for a period of 12 months all right so this was the proposal
to put all this into place this was in december of 2022 to go into effect one january the community
fees were going to be 150 000 a month plus excuse me 250 000 for increased expenditures and the
reason why is detailed in the in the plan the expanded operations all right now why can't i
just end the story here because it was rejected the ape coin dow foundation rejected ape aip 183
and it it discontinued cartan services as the ape coin dow administrator and the ape foundation
steward uh-oh when you discontinue the services of the entity that runs your dow the back end of it
so that all you have to do is log into website and connect to dap and then connect your wallet
and vote with that wallet and then the aip author gets the the yes or no vote and if it's yes and
they go get to do the thing they're funded for all that front end was managed by these people
the cartan group managing the back end so what do you do when that has a legal implication
all right what did ape coin dow do that's the real question what it coined dow did was it started
down a path of figuring itself out it had to oops wrong button it had to
it had to bring order and reliability via further ecosystem further decentralization of its ecosystem
otherwise known as the board aip aip 196 concluded a long journey of
a huge amount of of analysis and and research into how is the ape coin dow run what is the
ape foundation and what do they do all sorts of stuff there are some fascinating things if you
want to know how your dow is run read this proposal aip 196 and the reason why you want to read this
is because aip 196 contains within it some key phrases that make clear why things are the way
they are all right so let's open this up and it will become clear in a second
did i get the right sections i think i did all right so let's open this up again
i think i did all right so let's open this up again darn it i had all this properly linked
there we are boom all right so what are we searching for we're searching for the word legal
if you control f the word legal and 196 you'll come across three very interesting phrases
you ready oh there's only two that means i did not open the right ones hold on maybe this one
this one this one this one okay cool so if you come across dang it there's still only two oh oh
wait a minute that's because i need to open up rationale there we go okay so the authors are a
bunch of people who following the dismissal of cartan or at least the rejection of cartan's
renewal took it upon themselves to investigate to to unravel this this quagmire that we found
ourselves in and the eight coin dow which was we rejected the services of our administrator and our
legal protector so what do we do now we have to protect ourselves we have to administer ourselves
what does that actually mean it means you got a bunch of people who are and i think they called
it the most motivated right i think they used that word uh but what they basically said i think it
was in the actual the transparency report where it said that they chose the mo they being the
special counsel and then just people who stepped up right so they picked the people who stepped up
who are motivated to figure this problem out and that end up being these authors right here
sword of interest a alex amplify bad teeth board board ag brooklyn buddha dr jdr jerry halina lost
mantis nftc novo crypto red vulcan ssp vera will bam zastro bradley j mart wha pow wrong place 12
gauge coach mcgurk right so the this right here the board aip pretty cool name i think it's clever
clever very clever all right so let's uh let's get into this why what happened and this is
now we're getting very close to how is it our run there okay so you'll come across three terms
for legal all right let's start with the first one and we're getting very close now to figuring
this out to summarize this is um i'm reading from aip 196 board aip under the rationale section
is the first mention for legal it reads to summarize it's imperative to note that there
are certain roles and responsibilities that a cayman foundation administrator must legally fill
for the ape coin dow the current dow administrator kartan is filling those roles as well as items
that are out of their initial scope of work talking about aip-1 there
the aim of creating working groups is to fill in the areas that are out of scope
for the current dow administrator kartan and any future administrators of a coin dow going forward
so here's something i want you to i want you to catch all right it's not just the word legal
that's important here in that third sentence it like i said i've been contract writing for a while
you need to pay attention to some qualifiers and there's a very key call for qualify here
and it's the words out of scope the aim of creating working groups is to fill in the areas
all right so to do the things that are out of scope for the current dow administrator all right
so back up one more sentence kartan is filling roles that are in their scope of work
that are in their scope of work so this sentence this paragraph is basically saying in aip-1
it established a scope of work all the things they must do right they must do bookkeeping
they must manage the wallets they must pay people they must have legal representation
they must administer they must create the corporation they must maintain the corporation
meeting minutes all these things that are required to maintain a company that's their scope of work
what this proposal is doing is to fill in the things that are out of scope of the things that
the cayman foundation administrator must legally fill in a simpler phrase it's saying this right
here we're only talking about things that a cayman foundation administrator cannot do
all right so that that to me was was the first tell it was the first tell that said okay i need
to be reading regulations in the cayman islands for how a main a company is maintained i need to
be reading about the company's act and the foundation act and the company's management act
there all these things which i'm going to go over in a future episode for the sandbox but for apes
that was the first one so here's the second phrase in interim working group functions under three
month mandate section paragraph two due to the corporate structure of the ape foundation it is
not legal for working group zero to take on all other responsibilities of any cayman foundation
administrator all right so do you see the building blocks happening here this aip which was to bring
about order to the chaos created through 186 by rejecting kartan foundation as the administrator
this aip is to account for all the things that they can account for and the eight coin dow
legally speaking without the help of a cayman foundation administrator okay so then the question
the obvious question is what are the duties of the cayman foundation administrator
that can't be done by anyone but a cayman foundation administrator that's the obvious question right
here and then finally the third legal remark which was which was a forum comment within this post
by one of the co-authors amplify he said in the first paragraph currently the way our dow is
structured is we consist of three parts that together form the dow we have the cayman islands
foundation which is a legal entity in which kartan are the administrators we then have the special
council and finally we have token holders all right so we're starting to open up now we're starting
to open up in the final stretch he just identified the people where this is this is going to end up
you have kartan which is currently the administrator and come december uh become at the end of their
their their contract is no longer so who is filling the administrator role we don't know yet
but then the special council what are they doing and the token holders what are they doing
they are going to do the things that they are able to do outside of the scope of work that the
cayman administrators are the that they are legally responsible for doing
all right so you have two different groups two different things happening here the administrators
and what's legally responsible within their scope of work by aip-1 and then everyone else in the
ape coin dow to include the special council and the token holders who can do all the things that
you can separate out from from the legality of managing the cayman's island foundation
okay so if you're following with me we're about to get to the end because it's a very very rapid
rapid resolution so that was aip-196 all right what happened after that is that there was an
an rfp process there was an rfp process that that the working group zero ended up proposing
to the world saying we request a proposal for a cayman's island administrator for the ape
foundation so now that you've gone through everything in this episode all the the linkages
to what what all this means i think you you should be able to understand what the what this phrase is
really saying there are legal duties that the ape coin dow found and that the eight coin dow
found and its people cannot do that is required to run the ape coin dow via the ape foundation
and they are requesting a replacement submit a bid to replace the kartan group okay and it's
important to know um there are reasons for it basically i think it was because kartan was too
expensive there was a lot of discussion about why it was so expensive and blah blah but kartan
the rates charged by kartan um no hold on where's the word precluded oh okay um basically there's
somewhere in the proposal that says kartan can still vote so if kartan had been unsatisfactory
or they had been kicked out for any sort of nefarious reasons or or they whatever um it
would have disbarred kartan from proposing but that didn't happen kartan was allowed to propose
which says that really it's it's monkey see monkey get on that one uh um when the ape coin dow rejected
the renewal it did it at face value for all the reasons that you saw too expensive and whatever
else uh spoiler kartan group did not submit uh did not submit a bid and so here in the legal section
what was the connection i finally made that made it all made sense under the legal part of the
request for proposal it read facilitate the legal processes with respect to ape foundation
activities as determined by the director supervisor special counsel including but not limited to
vendor contracts grant due diligence grant agreements trademarks are you are you seeing
you see now this these are things that ape foundation i'm serious i'm sorry these are
things that the ape coin dow people voters cannot do for itself you must hire an administrator to do
it for you and then what is this legal section under there's that word scope of project work
the scope of the project work for the new cayman administrator to replace kartan is to do all of
these things oh by the way treasury right there facilitate administration of treasury including
but not limited to risk mitigation custodial account management custodial means ownership of
like physical possession so that that's ethereum addresses to hold eight point ens eight point nft
noses safe usage sales of a coin but most importantly well in regards to what we're
talking about here the operations of things who is running what and where is uh director supervisor
special counsel they are running the ape foundation okay and that's because it's a foundation company
in the cayman islands staffed by people used to be kartan so that was brian tang and um and his
co-founder brandon carino carano this was all in the proposal it's not it's it's public um they've
done twitter spaces and in marcom so their their names are not uh hidden all right so to almost
there the the tell for who is running the ape coin dow came in the bid that was submitted by the
winning bidder of the rfp so you have an rfp or request for proposal then you have a bid
or a proposal whether they're not going to call it a proposal because to it confuses too much with
aips so you have an rfp then you have a bid for that rfp all right so the winning bid came from
webslinger all right um hold on can i open it here please let me yes all right cool so the
winning bid came from webslinger in submission of ape foundation cayman administrator proposal
role let's take a look at the executive summary the ape foundation's progression
toward a decentralized future where the ecosystem is increasingly directed by a broad consortium
of stakeholders consortium just means group
mostly a group of partners is an exciting journey but also a complex one why is it complex
both the responsibilities that must be addressed during this journey as well as the potential
pitfalls are substantial meaning a dow can get sued what happens when dow gets sued we don't know
it's only been sued once or twice in history i think uh and and not every country agrees on how
to handle dow's continuing on and require timely and diligent administration and thoughtful
experienced counsel if the tremendous potential benefits of this journey to be realized the
webslinger team in conjunction with crest bridge cayman limited a regulated cayman service provider
a regulated cayman service provider is optimally positioned to assist the ape coin community
through this journey thus we have introduced two key entities that will replace kartan
by winning the bid all right what else was of note here it was only a nine page bid it's pretty
pretty short all things considered i've had bids in my own contract career uh that were
thousands of pages literally thousands of pages most bids come in a hundred couple hundred pages
it's not uncommon for that especially when you start getting into um start getting into
large projects this is over a i think that's two years ago all right let's take a look oh february's
last year so i think the market cap of ape coin at the time was 700 million right started going
down so 700 million proposal dollar proposal uh or to run a 700 million dollar project i would
expected the the bid to come in about i would have been surprised at the bid it come in about 300 pages
that didn't happen here instead it was nine pages pretty succinct into the point
all right they talk about their experience what they want to do how they're going to fulfill all
of the goals and expectations the steps they're going to take to operationalize the framework
so they're going to transition things they're going to secure things they're going to identify
processes they're going to establish things they're going to retroactively assess things and they're
going to continue to do things right okay all right almost there almost to the end
uh they're going they're going to how they're going to be remain in compliance with local laws
local laws being the cayman islands how finance is going to happen how they're going to approach
how they're going to approach legal how they're going to do a daily operations what they're going
to do with the treasury and now here you go the key teammates of the administrators who will
replace kartan who currently run the ape foundation person one person two person three person four
person five person six and their advisors this was the bid that was selected last year
this was the this bid was accepted this entity and i say entities because it was a partnership
web slinger and crest bridge came and limited they were selected to run the dow
and by dow i mean the ape foundation and all the duties responsible there and the rest of the duties
that were separated from uh aip 196 which was the board aip those were now pushed down to the special
council and below okay and then we have the last link in the chain um well one more note by the way
when i researched crest big press crest bridge cayman limited um they were renamed to
give me a second bridge bridge sport bridge port bridge um crest bridge something on
they were renamed to what what were they renamed to oh crest bridge was renamed to bridge stream
group it renames the wrong word there there is um here let me show you the article i found
so in the cayman compass so local cayman news
crest bridge spins off
itself and creates bridge bridge stream group
okay so um the the name here uh should look familiar and the website for bridge stream group
contains two important names that are current directors and administrators for the ape foundation
eight foundation so there you go so crest bridge is now called bridge stream web slingers is still
web slingers run by uh i think they actually web slingers is run by another company but i didn't
really feel the need to delve into that like i said i didn't go to the nth degree but there you have
it those are your eight foundation people who run it there's one last link in the chain aip 426
special counsel future elections requirements and role clarification there is uh one very important
section in here that sheds light on on um the q a during botb a couple weeks ago one of the big
things was what power does a special counsel actually have why aren't they why aren't they
involved in things or to what extent are they involved whatever but let's read in the abstract
of aip 426 under the rationale all right let's let's read to further shape the success of the
role long term and we're and they're talking about the special counsel the following changes are
proposed to be made one clarify that the special counsel is an advisory board that serves an
advisory function with no corporate decision making power by now the importance of that phrase should
should make itself obvious to you corporate decision making power corporate referring to
the ape foundation incorporated in the cayman islands run by web slinger team and bridge stream
team used to be called cross bridge okay rationale now here's here's the tell here's here's really
where the link ends the rationale oftentimes there is quoted confusion in the community
about what the special counsel is or is not ready in practice the special counsel is in fact an
advisory board neither corporate officers nor management executives corporate officers is a key
phrase there that means they held no official position in the ape foundation nor management
executives so that's that's your c-suite those your directors your officers okay and they should not
be viewed as such the advisory board should also not be misconstrued as the board of directors of
the ape foundation and there's a nail in the coffin the special counsel is an advisory board
meaning they have no legal authority to run the ape foundation and i'm going to go into why that is
it's actually the reason why that is is buried in in the cayman's foundations company act and the
the company act so there's there's two different law legal bodies at play there it basically says
that in order for you to run special certain parts of a cayman's island company you have to be
properly licensed by the central board called sema but it's a board within the cayman islands
that issues licenses all right you have to be licensed by a company to do certain roles and
responsibilities in a cayman's island company mostly secretarial positions but those secretarial
positions are very important in the record keeping and disclosure of who is doing what where in the
company okay so that that requirement requires that you have people be intricately involved in
the legality and all this and all that stuff in cayman islands i didn't find any references that
require that they have they be of caymanian cayman i mean caymanian you know a citizen of cayman
islands to be uh to get a license but i had i didn't do an exhaustive search yet that'll be
the next podcast episode when we talk about the foundation the sandbox foundation and doing a
deep reading of the constitution and the articles and all the stuff that makes up the sandbox
foundation the same stuff that would be required of the ape foundation but i could not find the
eight foundations articles memos or or constitution couldn't find anything about it so apes i would
recommend you go get your hands on those things um now that we know who is running what it shouldn't
be hard to request it and to obtain it i've heard ndas i've heard all sorts of stuff but now that we
kind of take taking it out of conspiracy illuminati cabal stuff and into a these are probably
reasonable people doing reasonable things they work for the eight point dow foundation uh the
eight point dow community so why not ask for the documents you're paying them to be a custodian
of your dow talking to apes and and um yeah so they work for you they say so in their proposal
so you take them at their word you're paying them to do this role for you so ask for it
okay that's it that's it there's some extra stuff you can look into if you really want to
to under help and resources in the discourse subforum there's eight foundation players and it kind
it kind of uh spells out exactly what we just said uh in in the ape coin dow weslinger's advisors
and uh its partners which is rich dream uh serves as the as the
as the administrator the administration the governance all that okay and then yeah so you
can go there it's there now and there is your explanation back to botb and the q and a's back
into who is who's doing the the banning of profiles who is running the the corporation
in the cayman islands their people they're real people doing real things and you i won't make i'm
not a spokesman for the ape coin dow i'm not a spokesman for the for anything except for myself
but there are some good reasons for why these things are in existence you just need to be
diligent about running it otherwise it will run you and it looks like the dow did exactly that
they they ran it in aip 196 as soon as they voted kartan out they've grabbed the bull by the horns
established a working group to figure it out and they did it's just not transparent to the greater
ape community a lot of a's don't know so my recommendation if you are in uh just my humble
recommendation it's my own personal leadership philosophy if you are in a position of authority
in the ape coin dow or ape foundation i recommend don't go to twitter spaces i mean definitely go to
space but your problem right now is visibility the problem that the apes have with you that i've
heard and i've heard a lot of twitter spaces with the apes in there problem that they have with you
is visibility they just don't know what's happening and it's the same problem that sanfam has with its
leadership is visibility seb is highly visible he goes to all the conferences if i want to know what
seb believes all i need to do is just look up this latest conference he talks about what he believes
in but the rest of everyone not that visible the ambassadors are visible thank you ambassadors love
you by the way but the rest of leadership it's hard it's hard to know who is doing what and where
and it can feel like strings are being pulled behind our backs especially when some apes don't
agree and it's easier to blame this illuminati cabal than to dissect it to figure out who is
doing what who is running what why are they doing this okay turns out apes are paying them to do
this so my recommendation to those in authority is push out a small one minute video of introducing
yourself what you do and blast it out of marcom's and everything else you can put it everywhere
and everything else you can put it everywhere make your faces known twitter spaces aren't good
enough i wish they were but they're not um not many people hit the recording not as many people
as you need to to get out of this this negative public relations circumstance you need to blast
you need to blast things far and wide that you exist you are who you are and i think you'll see
a lot of negativity go away it might be replaced by people who criticize what you do your qualifications
or whatever but that's part of what it means to be a leader you have to own the fact that you're
you're where it ends you are the leadership not me when i when i run for special counsel in the
sandbox style i if i am elected i will own that responsibility as well uh i've been in leadership
for a long time uh in private public sectors both you own the vision you own the the responsibility
to communicate and that's just my personal leadership philosophy so yep apes things are
going a little crazy for you right now especially with what was it 466 just passed where it dissolved
the working groups so now what what do you got what are you all doing now i don't know i have to
go listen to the last botb i wasn't there because i was doing all the research for this podcast
podcast um and there you go so in summary this is the relationship map there are many like it
but this one describes the sandbox town foundation this is the map of key players in the sandbox
foundation they live close together now they they work close together there's nothing inherently
wrong with that and the judging of conspiracy if you were to weigh things me personally i don't
weigh it as a conspiracy i think there are more factors more common sense things in play that
just make it reasonable reasonable people doing reasonable things and my disclosure is i'm i'm an
ape and i was led down this path by listening to the q a sessions and participating in them
and botb twitter spaces related to aip 466 which is passed to close all the working groups i'm not
involved in the eight coin dial very much at all i'm not in communication with the special council
of the ape foundation or or the foundation itself for the apes uh i have about 100 ape in my wallet
i think so not that much at all i'm a bull i'm a bear i'm a mocha i'm most importantly i'm sand fam
there you have it i'm gonna be doing a lot of new more episodes um this has spurred a whole thing
i've had to separate it because we're now running up on three hours so this was huge and long but
you know what it was needed if you're with me or you're re watching this on youtube again or
you're listening to the podcast this is important stuff you're talking about a billion dollar dow for
the apes and for for a sandbox we have what over a million users now and the dow has 15.5 million
sand which is roughly three to four million u.s dollars this is some important stuff so we need to
we need to be masters of our own fate here we need to know what we're doing because it is a great big
world out there and some people want to eat you there there's a saying that you can't eat a
there's a saying that i say all the time it was said to me once and i say it now if you're not
at the table you're on the menu what that means is you're not there if you're not there to advocate
if you're not there to reason to to participate you become the thing that they participate on
you have no say then at that point and what happens up until you get mad enough to do something about
it if you're not at the table you're on the menu and until the dow the ape dow realized this with
what when it i think what happened is people were surprised at the effects of aip 186 or 190 whatever
it was when it discontinued cartan services it didn't know what it had done until aip 196
when the final report came out for the board aip to bring about the rfp process that hired
web slingers and and the current administrators i don't want san fan to fall in that same
that same thing i want to learn from this example so that we can do good so that we can avoid that
landmine we're we're structured a lot for structures similarly to the ape foundation our our dow is
structured a little bit different when it comes to the front end and i'll go over that in another
episode this is good enough for now we went over so much so i didn't see any
i didn't see any community questions i don't have any remaining open topics except if you're not
at the table i couldn't i can't tell you just how much i've learned in all of this holy smokes
i cannot believe the depths of which this goes and i learned a lot about business that i didn't
i didn't even know that i knew i needed to know until then so i had so much fun i had so much fun
and sebga says we're here to make it i really started to think we need to have sub-dow the dow
is so big it's heavy yeah you're right uh there are sub-dows already though uh if you go to
whale dow which is the whale members of the sandbox of sam fam they own uh 1600 lands if you go to mocha
dow they are the mocha members of the mocha verse they hold as a collective a lot i don't know how
many probably thousands of lands there's a botb dow they they have a plot of land i think a six by six
a plot of land i think a six by six there's all sorts of sub-dows seb has a dow a sub-dow
which has seb coin and he votes on the sip's based on how his sub-dow votes we're already there in
fact i need to make a note to ensure that i include that in the dow ecosystem for us sub-dows thank
you sebga i really appreciate that uh sub-dow talk about whale dow mocha dow botb dow seb's dow
man i would have that's such a good graphic too i can't wait to put that one out there cool i
haven't constructed yet but i will all right open topics we're done with that uh be masters of your
own fate and if you're not at the table you're on the menu don't be on the menu okay sandbox spaces
discord uh hashtag dow discussion in that there's a channel for that that's where i post stuff i
talk in there i look at that pretty frequently the dow forums i look at that all the time uh if you
want to be involved in the sandbox dow go there and twitter hashtag is the san fam hashtag the
sandbox dow hashtag the sandbox game follow the sandbox dow account follow my account at mr lancer
and then youtube the sandbox dow has its own youtube channel subscribe it's at the sandbox
dow and then my youtube channel at lancer yt youtube uh and it is where i host the sandal podcast
for sandbox spaces go to mocha verse hall on monday's right now it's at 9 p.m eastern 3 a.m
central uh cst if you're bulls on the block or if you want to go and build on the block great
great intersection space for dow eight coin dow and the sandbox dow uh bulls on the block is
saturdays at 10 a.m eastern coffee with captain is a great place to go to keep up with the eight
coin dow also there's some crosses between our arbitram and some some other things they do talk
about sandbox every once in a while so that's monday through friday at 8 a.m eastern and then
well members has the natively digital they are one of the largest landowners in all of san fam
they have their natively digital twitter space on tuesdays at 6 p.m eastern and san fam cafe is a
monthly podcast put on by pickaxe master and there's different topics it's the topic of the month for
them okay we have reached the end that was an excessively long podcast but i think you'll agree
it was time it was time for us to have that talk i wasn't expecting to have this talk two weeks ago
it wasn't till we hit that q a when it all became apparent to me that we need to be figuring this
out in a hurry i've i view things i view the the sandbox dow and the sandbox admin team and the
foundation a lot more favorably now i don't see it as suspiciously as i used to so i'll still be
critical of some things i have no doubt i have no doubt admin team then i'm still going to be
somewhat critical of some things but you're going to see a lot less intensity sero has been answering
my questions in the forum the new communications manager kunta gave a great introduction and his
approach and i love it absolutely love the approach that he's going to take on this and he's been
answering questions i feel a lot more confident about the way forward i feel less suspicious
about what happened before it i'm good i'm not there yet but i'm i'm pretty good with what i'm
seeing now i understand even if i don't agree with everything i don't have to there's a famous quote
by one of the former u.s president uh teddy rosevelt the benefit of the doubt goes to the person in the
ring getting dirt on their face doing the job the current dow administrator is in the ring
doing the job dirt on his face the dow admin team is in the ring getting dirt on their face
the dow admin team is in the ring getting dirt on their face you can sit here i can sit here all day
long on my light nice little podcast and criticize all day long what they've been doing criticize
this and criticize that and you should have done this better and blah blah blah
at some point haven't been a business person myself having been a a ceo and a president of
a company myself the people who are responsible for making it happen they get the blame and they
get the praise and i can praise the admin team for putting this together
clearly a lot of thought and structure has gone into it and i can pick at them not including
the community even though it's supposed to be a dow by the community okay i feel a lot more
satisfied about it i feel a lot more i feel happier now so now that we reach this point i
think it's on us to figure out what we want to do about it all we're on a path of progressive
decentralization kunta has made a point that he's going to relay to the community what that means
the dow medium article explained that it is very interested in doing that so i have no doubt that in
the near future kunta and the dow admin team will we'll see that process play out i didn't expect
to be here though feeling the way i do about it i feel much better about it all and two weeks ago
i was still i was still pissed pissed about it just like everybody else was i was feeling resentful
and angry and bitter and i was trying to keep calm and and collected so that we can can focus
on the problem and not focus on personalities and all that sort of stuff and bitterness no
focus on solutions and the and the knowledge of what we were to figure out in this podcast presents
to us a solution uh the opportunity for a solution and one that is can be acceptable by most
stakeholders and parties and and not just a let's burn it down to the ground and restart i don't
think we need to maybe some tweaks are needed maybe uh but we'll we'll do this together as san
fan and and i feel very very strongly about that that's all i got everyone that's all i got
thank you all for your time thank you for hanging in with me three hours this podcast ran
it was an analysis of facts that were publicly available that we're transparent uh to be more
transparent about our dow this was sandell podcast 34 a look into the birth of the sandbox
the sandbox foundation and i think we figured it out thank you all for your time san fam and have a great day