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Hello everybody.

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We are celebrating the 30th episode of Sandel podcast.

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I can't believe we just hit 30 episodes.

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But what better way to bring in the 30th episode than interview someone whom I admire greatly.

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Someone who I've been watching for quite a long time.

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I own a fun guy myself.

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I walk around with the multicolored mushroom and one of my favorite avatars to run around

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the space with.

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The man, the myth, the legend himself, Touche, is going to be speaking with us here.

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Barely got it by.

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He's a hard guy to get to.

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Had to convince the community first that this was something that they wanted and ended up

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being able to make it happen.

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So to say I appreciate you coming on the show and I still love that gimbal thing going on

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which is following you around everywhere you go.

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I got to turn on my light so that people could actually see my face.

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Thanks man.

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Thanks.

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Appreciate it.

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And yeah, sorry for the lot of hit and misses there.

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It's been a busy past couple of months.

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I'll say that much.

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No, I definitely understand that.

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And we'll get into some of that as well.

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Just the story, the build up.

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So the scope of the talk today is to pay homage, to pay homage to our friend Touche and get

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a little perspective from someone who's been in the game for quite a while.

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So like I said, pay homage and gain a little perspective.

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Disclaimer as per usual, we do not represent the Sandbox game or the Sandbox DAO Foundation.

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We are not your financial and legal advisors and nothing Touche and I say isn't to be taken

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as such.

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When we say actually, we don't really need to talk much about because we're not talking

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about the DAO much.

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It's just going to be talking about the story in the background.

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So I'm going to skip right across scoreboard and the checkbook.

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It's not really relevant for today's talk and jump into introductions.

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I'm Lanzer.

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I'm a landowner and podcast host of Sand DAO.

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It's all about the Sandbox DAO.

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And for this episode particular, we're jumping into a community perspective, someone specifically

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a studio.

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We've had studios on before, but never quite like focused like this.

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So the first one is the 30th.

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It's all around just a special, special time.

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So that's me.

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I've been in since 2021, December, so about mid season one.

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And I Touche, you've been in a studio far longer, but let's get into your background.

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Please introduce yourself and where does it all start?

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Yeah, okay.

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So in specifically the sandbox stuff, I guess I've been in the sandbox since I think February

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or March of 2021.

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Just about that time.

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I think I got started with the Game Maker Fund around then started by, I think I just

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been pretty much got interested into NFTs.

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I had a friend reach out to me that knew I was an artist and was like, Hey, have you

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heard about this NFT thing?

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I was like, nope.

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I've been, you know, they knew I was in crypto and stuff and had been interested in that.

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So they're like, you should check it out.

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So I went at the time I was actually moving from Oregon to Washington where I am now.

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So pretty much as soon as I got here, set up my computer, started looking into NFTs

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and then just thought the technology was pretty cool.

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And there was obviously like a lot of hype around it and everything.

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So I originally got started with a platform called Foundation.

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Have you heard of them?

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They do the foundation.app.

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So I tried to get like just some of my artwork listed on Foundation.

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It was like an invite only thing, pretty hard to get into it and all that stuff.

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But eventually I got in it, like started getting really close with like the people that kind

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of ran Foundation and everything and eventually became, got offered like an administrative

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role there to a degree, like kind of like modding slash helping them out with some stuff.

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I did that for probably a month before I found the sandbox.

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And like Ready Player One is like one of my favorite kind of movies and stuff.

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So I was like, Oh, this is close.

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You know, we're getting there.

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So I was like, let's see where this goes, right?

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And so I, 2021 was really kind of like a difficult time to get any information about the sandbox

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other than like, to be honest with you, I thought, you know, everything was already

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live.

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It was really kind of hard to figure out that it even wasn't live and stuff because you

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could buy the land and then you're like, well, what do you do with this?

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So the only place to really go for information at the time was like three or four streamers

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that were streaming at the time.

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One of them being Andy.

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And so I got into Andy's chat, Andy Richie.

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Yeah, I got into Andy's chat about March, 2021.

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And he taught me a lot of the beginning stages of GameMaker.

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There was like no YouTube tutorials or anything.

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So you just kind of had to ask questions.

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I think at the time we were before, it was the glitch in the metaverse game jam that

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was about to happen.

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Never participated in a game jam.

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Never built a game in my life before.

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So I was like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

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But I had a concept for a game.

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I was like, hey, let's, you know, I had these like mushroom characters that I had drawn,

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the fun guys, and I was cool to like, because someone tells you make a game and you're like,

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what about?

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Right.

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And so I was like, what do I know?

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I know these characters.

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Let's just try to tell a story with them.

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It was like a different way of telling a story.

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Right.

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So at the time I had been working on like comic book scripts and stuff like that and

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making a comic, making an animation is expensive and takes a long time and stuff.

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And building a game in GameMaker was a little easier than that.

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You know, so I was like, well, much easier than that.

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So I was like, let's do that and cheaper.

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So I built that, told the story.

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And at the same time, I actually went into the, before I actually got in the Twitch channels

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and all that stuff and started learning about the sandbox and everything.

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I like wanted to like create, originally I went to the sandbox to like create voxel art,

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right?

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I was just going to make the like little mushroom dudes and then just see if they would sell

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on the marketplace.

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Right.

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Because the first NFTs that I had created were these trading cards of the fun guys.

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And I was like, oh, well, let's keep the theme.

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Let's build 3d versions of the fun guys.

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And if anyone buys the trading card, they get this like voxel model and all that stuff.

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So originally I wasn't even interested in game development.

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And when you went to the sandbox website at that time, if you went to VoxEdit and you

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went to publish a model, it automatically threw you into this page on the sandbox website

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that was like the creator forum or something like that.

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And it was basically you had to, in order to ever to publish something through VoxEdit

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at the time, you had to be a published artist.

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So you had to be a creator fund artist or a game maker fund artist.

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And I was not able to say that was the biggest obstacle for me is I didn't even know how

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to get into that at the time.

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Yeah, you couldn't publish anything.

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So I act so the form pops up and it's like, if you want to publish, you have to like fill

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out this form.

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And I just thought everybody had to do that.

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Right.

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So it was a really long form.

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And it was like asking me like, what do you bring to the sandbox?

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And all of a sudden I was like, I guess it's new.

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Like they got they got to check everybody.

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What I didn't know at the time was I was applying for the game maker fund and I had no idea.

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I was accidentally filling out the game maker fund form and I filled it out with the fun

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guys and then this thing was like, what kind of game would you want to build?

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And I was like, I don't know, like Stardew Valley, but with these mushroom dudes.

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Anyway, filled it all out.

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Next day, I got an email from Seb that's like, I love your Stardew Valley idea.

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Let's build it in the sandbox.

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And I got in the game maker fund.

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It was literally an accident.

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I didn't even mean to do it.

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So guys, the game maker 2021.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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So yeah, so got in it completely by accident.

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I think I was the 27th project in the game maker fund because they named they like labeled

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it like fungi 27 or something like that.

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Already at the time there was like a few familiar faces like Tempest was in there.

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So like I got I became friends with Cody and stuff and all of them.

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And it was like a really cool like camaraderie time.

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Like it was all very new and very fun.

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So then afterwards, you know, getting involved with the communities and being like, I guess

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I got to build a game now.

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Like I have no idea what I'm doing.

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Started learning through Twitch participated in the glitch in the metaverse game jam by

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building a demo to the fungi kingdom game that I applied to the game maker fund with.

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And I think I got third place with that game and made something like $6,000.

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It was the most money I'd seen in like a long time.

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So I'm no six, six, six thousand.

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Yeah, got it.

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Six thousand dollars.

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And I used five thousand of that to build this PC that I now have, which Andy had done

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the same when he won his game jam the first one.

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So it was like, you know, so I actually built kind of like the same exact PC as him because

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I at the time had no idea what I was doing with with all this shit.

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So I'll start out somewhere.

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Yeah, got involved with the game maker fund kind of by accident, built a demo, got third

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place with it in the game jam.

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And I was like, this is pretty cool.

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And at the time I was moving to Washington and like starting to apply for jobs and everything.

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And I just stopped.

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I just stopped applying for any jobs.

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I was like, I guess this made me more money than I would make in like a few months at

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an office.

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So let's just do this until that doesn't work anymore.

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And yeah, yeah, right then and there.

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I mean, I wasn't doing anything else, really.

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So I had so previous to that right around covid right before covid really.

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So 20 before 2020, I had started a marketing business with with a friend in Oregon and

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we were doing pretty good.

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And then covid hit.

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We lost all our clients.

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And so it was like about six months of like not knowing what we were doing.

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We moved here in the middle of covid.

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So like I was just like, I mean, maybe I can get a remote job somewhere.

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All our clients had like dropped off the face of the earth.

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We had like two clients left out of like having 20.

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And so it was just it was a bad time.

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So the marketing thing kind of got pulled on hold.

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And I was like, well, I have to go look for a job then.

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And then came here, sandbox thing happened.

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I was like, I guess we're putting that on hold, too.

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So then, yeah, and then pretty much kind of just rode that wave until now.

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And you were full time before the end of 2021.

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Well, I was I mean, it's hard to say because I wasn't doing anything else.

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I didn't have a job, right?

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I had my own marketing company and that had been so slow that like you could say I was

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full time, but I was like full time that as well, even though we weren't doing anything.

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I was definitely doing most of most of my time was spent in the sandbox.

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So, yeah, gotcha.

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So you were all in and on the website, it said it was established in 2010.

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What's the connection there?

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So it's two studios has been around since I was like 20 years old.

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I thought I was like pretty clever and came up with the name to shake.

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My last name is Shay.

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And so I was like, hey, to shake to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I connect it.

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It connects.

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It was funny.

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And then I used that.

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That was the banner that I kind of started my original freelance company under.

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So I did logos and websites and stuff for people since 2010.

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And I've been doing illustrations and stuff like, you know, little one off things.

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People want me to design their D&D characters, stuff like that.

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Just freelance work since 2010.

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And then we really I really hit the ground running with like the studio thing.

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We officially started doing game development, obviously, in 2021.

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So I wasn't game developing in 2010 at all.

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It was just marketing and stuff like that.

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No, no, that makes sense.

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That connects.

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I had a similar.

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I started my first business when I was like a freshman or sophomore in college.

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And it was just, you know, my creative outlet.

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And then it became more serious about publishing books to Amazon and then music to iTunes.

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And I started getting serious the more I started maturing.

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But in the beginning, it was just I've got a company.

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Yeah.

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What the hell is this thing?

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Right.

239
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:09,680
Yeah.

240
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,640
It's like, yeah, at some point, you just start learning what a company does and then you

241
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,880
start doing things through the company.

242
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,840
And yeah, it's just it was like mostly a learning process for me.

243
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,760
Honestly, they don't teach any of this stuff.

244
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,680
So it's like, let's see what this does.

245
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:23,680
Right.

246
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:24,680
And people are doing it.

247
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:25,800
So I guess building a business is a good idea.

248
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,560
So it was just like a 20 year old entrepreneurial like, I don't know what this is, but let's

249
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:31,560
try it.

250
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:32,560
Let's see where it goes.

251
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:33,560
Yeah.

252
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:34,560
Yeah.

253
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:39,240
And that's that's why whenever nowadays, if I could give my my younger self advice would

254
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,720
be stop worrying about trying to make a picture perfect and just go do it because from then

255
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,200
on you start building the foundation for where you are now.

256
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,360
If I could have done that five years earlier, there's no telling where I'd be right now.

257
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,360
I don't know.

258
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,840
But you live and you learn.

259
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:54,840
Yeah.

260
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,800
That's that's actually like a big reason why I'm doing what I'm doing now.

261
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,160
Like I started doing the whole painting thing after I dropped out of sandbox and we're probably

262
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,560
getting ahead of your slides here.

263
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:04,560
That's okay.

264
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,560
It's all good.

265
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,440
I thought the same thing to myself, right?

266
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,960
Like my my passion is painting, right?

267
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:17,360
Like I, I mean, I love putting messy paint on a canvas and then making it look like something

268
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,440
that wasn't just a, you know, paint in a tube.

269
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,800
And I can see that in your Twitch streams.

270
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,520
It's really cool to watch how it evolves from just a mask to something well defined.

271
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,880
Like I said yesterday or last night.

272
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:29,880
Yeah.

273
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,680
What your Final Fantasy character, the way that you kind of fleshed out the the coat.

274
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,680
Yeah.

275
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,400
And I'm not like I'm not a good artist.

276
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,920
I'll be the first to say like I'm not a very good painter, but I I'm using this opportunity

277
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:49,000
to learn and like a big, big help in that is scheduling learning time, right?

278
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,200
And so the streams for me are like scheduled time to learn how to paint.

279
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,640
And I'm just doing it in front of everybody else, right?

280
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:02,880
So I had, I asked myself the same question, like about 20, I think 2016 or something like

281
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:03,880
that.

282
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,920
I did the same thing that I'm doing now, but in a much smaller scale.

283
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,640
I live in a tiny house in the back of my parents' house in Florida and my dad and I built a

284
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,480
tiny house and I lived there for three years.

285
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,080
And about the last year that I was there.

286
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,080
Like a proper tiny house?

287
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,080
Yeah, yeah.

288
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,080
Tiny house.

289
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,080
Right on.

290
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,080
Right on.

291
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,560
Eight by 22, eight by 20 or 22.

292
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,560
I forget.

293
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,480
Solar panels the whole night.

294
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:27,480
Compost toilet.

295
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:28,480
I mean, I went all tiny house.

296
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:29,480
Oh my gosh, man.

297
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,200
You went hard in the paint.

298
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,560
Yeah, it was, it was great.

299
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,440
I loved, it was like a good lesson in downsizing and like figuring out what you need and what

300
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,440
you don't.

301
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,440
You learn real fast.

302
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:40,640
What's real important to you.

303
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,640
Yeah.

304
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,320
And I obviously have my parents' house right there.

305
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,600
So like, it's not like I threw everything away that didn't fit in the tiny house, but

306
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,220
I did learn how to pack enough so that when I eventually did move to the West coast, everything

307
00:15:51,220 --> 00:15:54,960
fit in my car and the trailer and the small little U-Haul.

308
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,600
And what was the impetus behind moving to the West coast?

309
00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:59,960
Getting out of Florida, to be honest with you.

310
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,400
I'd been there for 14 years and I was just like, we'd all been saying, let's go, let's

311
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,400
do something else.

312
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,800
And yeah, it was just, why not?

313
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,920
I mean, I had been that same job for nine years, corporate.

314
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,540
Just like it was great gig, right?

315
00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:19,440
Like great money and you know, it was a graphic design and it's like what I wanted to do,

316
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,080
but I fucking hated it.

317
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,840
Every moment of it was just like, I mean, I was doing graphic design.

318
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,920
I was graphic designing medical pamphlets.

319
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,240
So it's like, how entertaining can that be for anybody?

320
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,240
Medical pamphlets.

321
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,240
Yeah.

322
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,240
Yeah.

323
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,240
The height of inspiration and innovation.

324
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,240
Yeah.

325
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,240
Exactly.

326
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:37,240
And it kills you.

327
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,640
I mean, time goes backwards, dude, when you're doing that kind of stuff and it's just, it's

328
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,640
such a drag.

329
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,440
And so I was like, I can't just do this forever.

330
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,240
And if, and if I ever want to, I'll just do it again, right?

331
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,680
Like might as well try something new.

332
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,040
And yeah, so picked up and moved out here.

333
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,040
Gotcha.

334
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,000
But yeah, there's so, so question I asked myself going back to like that, what would

335
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:06,200
I have told my past self is like, what do you want to get good at?

336
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,200
Right?

337
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,800
It's like, what do you want to be good at in 20 years?

338
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,320
Like what if you could just see yourself in 20 years, what would you like, like to see

339
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,720
in yourself?

340
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:20,760
And then in every venue that I explored, it's like, I just want to be a better artist, right?

341
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,520
Whatever that means, like, I just want to be able to paint better or do whatever it

342
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,560
is that's creative.

343
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,160
I want to do it to the best of my abilities.

344
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,460
And the only real way to get there is by practicing that kind of thing.

345
00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:35,240
So I asked myself, like, if I had not done game development for the past three years

346
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,920
and instead painted every single one of those days, what would I be painting right now?

347
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,920
Where would you be now?

348
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,920
Yeah.

349
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:41,920
Right.

350
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:42,920
What would the paintings look like?

351
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:49,160
It's like, and even taking that even further, if I'd never stopped since 2016 and doing

352
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,720
the tiny house studio stuff and I painted, I think I did about 35 episodes before I moved

353
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,440
out to the West coast and I tried to start it up again, but then logistically things

354
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,480
just didn't work out.

355
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,640
So like, but what if I never stopped painting for the last like eight years?

356
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,880
What the heck would I be doing right now?

357
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,200
So asking myself those questions made me realize what was more important to me.

358
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,000
And it was like, the game development is cool, right?

359
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,120
It's like, at some point you can kind of sit back and be very satisfied by creating something

360
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,640
in the, in the sandbox.

361
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,360
But it's hard to get there.

362
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,480
And there's a lot of reasons that I can go into why it's hard to get to that satisfaction,

363
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,880
especially now.

364
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,260
But this, the painting thing, dude, like as soon as I'm done, I sit there and I just stare

365
00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:33,260
at it.

366
00:18:33,260 --> 00:18:36,280
And it's like something that I can look at my work and go, okay, next time I'm going

367
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:37,600
to do this differently.

368
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,920
And like, I'm learning as I'm doing it and it feels so much better.

369
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,760
It feels so much more like satisfying.

370
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,760
It's much more organic.

371
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,520
You see more in your element when you're doing that.

372
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:47,520
Yeah.

373
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:56,080
And it's just like, I don't, I don't know how to describe it other than like, that is

374
00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,720
like meditation versus the game development stuff is like putting in work that is actual

375
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,720
work.

376
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,720
Right.

377
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,720
Yeah.

378
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,400
And so I want to get good at what I want to be good at in five years.

379
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,440
I'm like, the game development thing is cool, but like, I want to be able to paint whatever

380
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,440
I want.

381
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:15,440
Right.

382
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,600
Like if I imagine that I just want to be able to paint that and that doesn't happen if I

383
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:18,640
don't practice.

384
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,240
So you were, you were really successful, man.

385
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:30,480
You, I think I recorded, so you had 14 games that I counted multiple time game jam, when

386
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:37,200
you're GMF 2021 and you achieve advanced partner.

387
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:42,960
So in terms of people who achieved the pinnacle and the sandbox fear, I don't know how much

388
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,000
higher you could have gone.

389
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,040
You seem to have struck a chord.

390
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,320
And isn't that kind of scary, right?

391
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,580
Because I couldn't make it right.

392
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:54,040
And so like, I'll go back to these games and wins.

393
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,600
I'll be the first to say like I to Shay was not responsible for most of those game jam

394
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,600
wins.

395
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,600
That's my team.

396
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,600
My team is brilliant.

397
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,920
Zombie and, and Steven and everybody that worked on those games, like takes that prize home

398
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,280
because without them, we wouldn't have been able to win.

399
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600
That the team we did nothing.

400
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Yeah.

401
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,680
What all those other things mean, it just kind of happened.

402
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:22,680
I'll be honest.

403
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,360
Like I didn't push to do anything.

404
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,560
I found out I was an event trusted partner by, by an email.

405
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:33,960
Like, and it, and you know, like I didn't, it's, it's very scary to me to be one of

406
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,000
the most successful studios in the sandbox and know what I know about my finances and

407
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,920
my problems and my studio.

408
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:48,760
And, and it's just like, I couldn't imagine struggling any more than I am right now and

409
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,520
still doing the sandbox stuff.

410
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,520
Right.

411
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,400
And like being, you know, staying through and turns out that everybody is in that position.

412
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,400
Right.

413
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,400
And I'm in that position too, man.

414
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,040
I discovered that early and I'm, I've been a business entrepreneur for a while.

415
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,040
It so master.

416
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,920
I'm going to do a podcast episode on, I'm sorry.

417
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:05,920
Keep going.

418
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:06,920
No, no.

419
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,920
So, but that's the problem, right?

420
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,280
Is like all those accolades at the end of the day, it's pretty difficult to even do

421
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,280
anything with that.

422
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:18,880
So yeah, success is achieved in some ways, right?

423
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,160
Like, but it doesn't mean much at the, at the end of the day, unfortunately.

424
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,160
So yeah.

425
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,160
Yeah.

426
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:33,480
And, and as I was, I guess you could say I was shocked when I read your tweet.

427
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,000
I wasn't expecting it.

428
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000
That's the real way to say it.

429
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,400
I didn't expect that that was going to happen.

430
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,440
And then Tempest happened.

431
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:46,320
And then that may happen to a few other studios who I've, who have told me privately when

432
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:52,600
I've interviewed and I myself as a studio who published two, two experiences, just the

433
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,200
math was not working.

434
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,680
And I'm like, what in the world is going on here?

435
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,520
I just can't figure it out.

436
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,680
And I did end up mathematically figured out what the problem was.

437
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,280
And I'm going to do a podcast episode on it.

438
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:11,920
So to go down later, but can you walk me through the road that, that led you to the tweet?

439
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,840
You had some very specific quotes that really stood out to me.

440
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,920
Like, that's a red flag.

441
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,400
That's something to really ask about.

442
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,400
Walk me through it.

443
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:22,400
How did it happen?

444
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:31,000
Do you remember back when our friend, Gary Gensler decided that San token and a bunch

445
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,400
of like 44 other tokens were going to be securities.

446
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,400
Yes.

447
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,520
And then Sanbox had to do this whole like, Hey, the U S can't be staking anymore.

448
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,520
All this stuff.

449
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,840
It was so fascinating to see that that was specifically mentioned.

450
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,680
I was, wow.

451
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,240
So when that happened, right, I was like, okay, interesting.

452
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,280
We're in the U S that's a great equation for me.

453
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,760
I have Sanstaked.

454
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,920
Do I have to pull it out?

455
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,920
Turns out yes.

456
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:56,920
Okay.

457
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,120
Well, Sanstaking was how we were supposed to get catalysts for minting assets.

458
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:06,080
So I'm going to take you back before catalyst system, before the marketplace has had been

459
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:11,160
decided and before you didn't need to mint assets to publish an experience.

460
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,720
So at that time, my thinking is you need to mint all the assets to be published in an

461
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,720
experience.

462
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,000
How are we going to mint assets when already the token is considered a security or the

463
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,400
assets now going to be considered securities too?

464
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,080
All these questions that you start asking, how am I going to get paid out for the rest

465
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,720
of my game maker fund contract?

466
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,640
Is the sand that I'm earning, am I able to earn that anymore?

467
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,080
Is it legal for me to have sand as a U S?

468
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,440
And you ask all these questions to the people who you're supposed to ask these questions

469
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:40,920
to and they have no idea.

470
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,880
So instead of giving you any answers or finding out what the answers are, they just cut off

471
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:45,920
that branch.

472
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,040
So no more staking.

473
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,720
So I'm like, okay, if no more staking, how are we supposed to get the catalysts to be

474
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:50,720
able to mint the assets?

475
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,720
Oh, well, don't worry.

476
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,640
You won't have to do that because you won't have to mint assets anymore to publish experiences.

477
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:57,640
So you won't have to mint.

478
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,640
So what's the point of the marketplace?

479
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,240
The marketplace was supposed to be created so that people could upload assets so that

480
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,520
game developers could buy those assets because they needed to have minted assets to publish

481
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,520
their games.

482
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,560
If you no longer need minted assets to publish your games, you don't need assets minted on

483
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,160
the marketplace marketplace becomes pretty irrelevant except for what?

484
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,960
Equipment, which is the only thing people are buying right now.

485
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:19,960
Right?

486
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,360
So they did this out that did not escape my notice.

487
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:23,360
Yeah.

488
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:24,360
Right.

489
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:25,360
So back.

490
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,360
Okay.

491
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,560
So you have no more need for marketplace, basically, because the minted assets are no

492
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,560
longer a thing.

493
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,760
It's much cheaper to hire someone to build a tree than to buy a tree.

494
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,160
And so as a game developer, you're going to hire the person to buy the to build the

495
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,440
tree.

496
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,120
And so the entire marketplace becomes irrelevant.

497
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,400
Then they decide how we're going to do catalysts.

498
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,000
So it's no longer going to be with staking.

499
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000
If you look at the original white paper for the sandbox, the way that they were going

500
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,400
to distribute catalysts was going to be proportional to how many districts key districts that you

501
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,720
were be able to create.

502
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,720
Right.

503
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,560
So you were you and I, if we had land next to each other, we could create a district.

504
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,440
We could stake sand onto that district and we would earn catalysts proportional to our

505
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,400
stake in that district.

506
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,400
Right.

507
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,040
So each district gets catalysts.

508
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,680
Those get distributed to the people who stake within that district.

509
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,760
That's all gone.

510
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,160
That doesn't exist anymore at all.

511
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,160
And it's not coming back.

512
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,280
It's just that's not how it's working anymore.

513
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,200
So what's the point of having those districts?

514
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,560
What's the point of staking even?

515
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,240
Is it just to earn kickback on sand?

516
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,480
They're not even distributing catalysts to that.

517
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,080
So everything was shifting.

518
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,240
That was a big thing for me.

519
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,240
Catalysts.

520
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,080
I was in the pre catalyst version and that's how I had made my business model.

521
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080
And then the new catalyst system came and just threw that all out of whack.

522
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,400
That's where all my math is based on.

523
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,040
One asset per mint.

524
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,720
It just became this whole like they were changing the whole game.

525
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Yeah.

526
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,080
It wasn't even like they were shifting the goalposts.

527
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,180
We changed the field.

528
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:54,120
We changed the type of ball we were using.

529
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,760
It was all completely different.

530
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,960
And so you're like, okay, well, if this is happening, the implications are that the marketplace

531
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,760
is going to deteriorate.

532
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,960
The catalyst system is sand is going to be just devalued to hell and back because the

533
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,520
only thing that people are earning is sand and there's no reason to spend that sand anymore.

534
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,600
Big reason that you own sand is to build the games because you need to send in order to

535
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,600
buy the assets.

536
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,120
You don't need to buy the assets.

537
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,820
You don't need the sand.

538
00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:21,880
And so every time you get sent, you dump it.

539
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:22,880
Why wouldn't you?

540
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,880
Right.

541
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,440
Like it just makes sense.

542
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,520
So it was just there's so many just like bad business decisions in my opinion that were

543
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,160
made that changed the whole perspective of what I thought was going to be done with land

544
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,840
and assets and all that stuff.

545
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,940
So so yeah, that was probably what?

546
00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:44,600
How long ago did the catalyst system come out?

547
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:45,600
How long ago?

548
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,200
It's been a year in my mind.

549
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,200
Yeah.

550
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,680
And then on top of that, like we pitched to, you know, they say that you get 1% of the

551
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:54,800
clients that you pitch to.

552
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,800
Right.

553
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,640
So if you pitch 100 times, you get one client.

554
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,000
We pitched 120 times and got one client.

555
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,840
And I was like, this is a lot.

556
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:03,840
This is too much.

557
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:10,120
Like you were, you were pitching for what companies we were sent emails to.

558
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,760
I mean, all sorts of different companies, people would reach out to us and then we would

559
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,080
pitch to them and they wouldn't get back to us.

560
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,800
It was a very interesting time where it was like people seem to be interested, but then

561
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,800
the moment they found out how much things cost, it was like, we're not interested anymore.

562
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,720
And so in reality, a situation is like, you got to pay people to do these things.

563
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,840
Like I'm not charging you 10 times what it's costing me.

564
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,800
I'm charging you pretty much what it costs me times too, so I can hopefully keep some

565
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,240
money in the bank.

566
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,280
And yeah, everything was just too difficult.

567
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:47,400
And then the last, I mean, if I'm being honest with you, I was going to close down the studio

568
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,880
by at least, you know, start thinking about packing up shop much earlier this year.

569
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,600
And then the first builder's challenge happened.

570
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,400
We didn't do anything for five weeks for the first builder's challenge.

571
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:04,400
And then week six, we released fungi kingdom.

572
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,800
And I think I barely did anything for that.

573
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,840
Like I mean, I put about, I don't know, I think it was like a thousand sand towards

574
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:13,840
it.

575
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,800
You know, like it was, it wasn't much in terms of like rewards.

576
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:26,600
And then we, without trying, we did, we pulled in 70,000 sand in the first builder challenge

577
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,480
without even trying.

578
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,280
And only doing it for half of the time.

579
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,280
And we got in top 10.

580
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,760
So I was like, holy shit.

581
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,760
All right.

582
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Those 70,000 sand kept the studio running for a little while.

583
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,160
So I liquidated all that kept it for salaries, use that for salaries until the challenge

584
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,040
to build a challenge to comes around.

585
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:49,000
I put in a boatload of effort the whole time made 9,000 sand continue.

586
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,320
Yeah, no, I know it was, it was surprising to me that I was like, holy shit.

587
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,440
I did not expect, dude, I did not expect to get to that 10 so much that, so we got 20,000

588
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,920
sand and then the top 10 price was an additional 50,000 sand.

589
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:03,920
Right.

590
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,080
So 50,000 sand was really what made everything worth it.

591
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,080
But the 21,000 sand, I cashed that out thinking that's all we got.

592
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,160
Then when people started showing, oh, we got the top 10 distribution.

593
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,520
I was like, man, that's cool for them.

594
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,720
You know, like I was super like kind of jealous to be honest with you.

595
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,820
I'll be like, I should have tried harder.

596
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:25,720
And I went to the claims page three days later because I saw a little thing on there and

597
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,400
I was, I had the 50,000 sand waiting for me.

598
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,440
I was like, I got into top 10.

599
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,440
How the fuck?

600
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,760
Like I had no idea how it would be possible because we didn't do anything for the first

601
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,760
five weeks.

602
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,880
So I was like, obviously, fill this challenge too.

603
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,880
We'll try now.

604
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,880
Right.

605
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,600
I'll put effort into the total 10 weeks, fill this whole lab or thing.

606
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,000
And then they changed the whole reward structure.

607
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,000
Right.

608
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,800
So it's, it's always shifting goalposts.

609
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,040
And that's really the big problem.

610
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:58,320
You cannot build a business off of a target that moves and disappears sometimes.

611
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,400
And it pops up behind you and you're like, what the hell's going on?

612
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,160
So that's really the big problem.

613
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,160
Yeah.

614
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,160
Yeah.

615
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,160
I'm, I'm with you on that.

616
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,240
I mean, I'm, I'm celebrating your success.

617
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,840
I'm so happy that you made 70,000.

618
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,840
I was awesome.

619
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:12,840
No, don't get me wrong.

620
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,320
Like that was, that was incredible for me.

621
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,280
And I was like, holy shit, there might be hope here.

622
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,280
Right.

623
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:23,400
And it's like, and that was, that was the, I think we got too comfortable with that.

624
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,520
And I thought, you know, maybe there's still an opportunity to do this over and over again.

625
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:28,520
Sure.

626
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,280
I was fraught with challenges that made that impossible.

627
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,800
But, but yeah, ultimately what ended up leading to that suite was seeing the results of builder

628
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,320
challenge to realizing that we ain't have client, we don't have clients, the money's

629
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,640
drying up.

630
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,120
We don't have any prospect of any change.

631
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,480
And to be honest with you, I don't see the sandbox chain making any crazy advancements

632
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,680
that would make all those things possible, like making clients, getting clients, making

633
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,320
money, all those things for another two years.

634
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,320
So like, do I sit here and wait two years and spend all my money and then be broke and,

635
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,840
but I made, but I waited two years, right.

636
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,200
Or do I just pull back, let the two years pass and then come back if it's better.

637
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,200
Right.

638
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,400
And that's what ended up being the decision.

639
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,400
Yeah.

640
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,400
I, I made, like I said, 9,000 sand.

641
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:34,640
My partner and I split the development cost and we paid about 20,000 us dollars to build.

642
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,960
And we put our heart and soul into that.

643
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,720
I was, I had partnered with some major nonprofits like military, new gamers who had never done

644
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,240
the sandbox before.

645
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,360
We ranked seventh one of the weeks.

646
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,240
We were going hard and then, and then we just started getting outpaced and I could not figure

647
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,680
out why, man.

648
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,200
It was killing me.

649
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,600
It was killing me, but I don't begrudge any of your success.

650
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,960
I'm really glad that you, you were able to make it.

651
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:01,960
What did you say you made for a builder challenge too?

652
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,040
That you, that was a lot less.

653
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,040
I think I heard you say,

654
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,960
in total, I think we made something like 26,000 sand or something like that.

655
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
But maybe if we gave away 16,000 in rewards.

656
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,040
Yeah.

657
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,040
Yeah.

658
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,320
More than, oh, you gave away 16,000 in rewards.

659
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,320
Wow.

660
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,040
I think it was like 18,000.

661
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,200
I just finished sending out all the rewards, I'm good at being quite a bit.

662
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:32,480
We only made a profit about maybe 10,000 sand, which is $2,000 for 10 weeks of effort.

663
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,240
And a team of seven.

664
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,240
You see how this doesn't math.

665
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,240
Yeah.

666
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,360
I see the math is not mapping on that.

667
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Yeah.

668
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,360
Yeah.

669
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,720
And some people just, if you don't know, trying to maintain a leaderboard, manage rewards

670
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,320
system manually is, it is so hard.

671
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,200
Do you know how many hours I spent on Excel sheets to try and keep track of rewards and

672
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,200
wallets and just.

673
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,200
Yes, I do.

674
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,200
Unbelievable.

675
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,760
Anyways, a moment of kumbaya on that.

676
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,140
It is tough.

677
00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,720
It's a tough life out there.

678
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:08,800
And that's the problem, right?

679
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:15,480
It's like, at some point you feel like everyone's just looking at you like an ATM, right?

680
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,560
With extra steps because they have to like play a mini game before they can withdraw

681
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:19,560
cash.

682
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,560
Yeah.

683
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,560
Submit a screenshot here and there.

684
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,560
Yeah.

685
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,080
I got the amount of messages that I get after reward, after a leaderboard is finalized from

686
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:34,000
that moment until I send out the rewards, I'm getting pinged every single day, multiple

687
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,920
times from different people asking me when I'm going to distribute rewards.

688
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,560
And you just got to look around and go, what do people think I am like a machine?

689
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,720
Like, what do I do?

690
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,400
Just sit here and like, no.

691
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:46,400
Dude, like.

692
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:47,400
Yeah.

693
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,360
I had the same thing during Builders Challenge.

694
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,000
The same, same thing.

695
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,000
And you know what?

696
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,000
Some of them, I really like them.

697
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
They're great community members.

698
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000
So let's talk about.

699
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000
It's like I'm tech support.

700
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,000
Like, hey, I didn't get my reward yet.

701
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,000
When is it coming out?

702
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,840
And I submit on my wall and I'm like, all right, let me.

703
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,640
So like, if you're asking about things that, you know, all frustrations like that can be

704
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,560
remedied by different things, right?

705
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Yeah.

706
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,280
So much of it is in the power of the sandbox.

707
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,280
And that's why you go, well, do I sit here and send reward?

708
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,040
Like it's annoying tabulating everything, making sure everything's correct, checking

709
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,040
with the community.

710
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,520
Then people are like, Hey, I think I submitted a score.

711
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:30,520
Can you check?

712
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,280
And you're like, no, you submitted it to the wrong form.

713
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,600
And they're like, Oh, I'm sorry.

714
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,040
And they're like, Oh, well, do I forgive them?

715
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,040
Do I put them in there?

716
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,040
Or is it everybody else?

717
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,280
You have all of these problems that you're like, it would be so solved so much easier

718
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,220
if sandbox had their own leaderboards that people can just auto, I can automatically

719
00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:49,500
see who's at the top, like submit it, go to the sandbox dashboard.

720
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,320
Who got top 10 in my game this week?

721
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,320
Okay, boom.

722
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,320
Immediately pay them out.

723
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,480
There's a distribution system.

724
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,480
There's a claim page.

725
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,480
Why can't we use that?

726
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,480
Like, yeah, there's so many things that you're like, this manual process is, it might seem

727
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,600
like it's simple and easy and all that stuff, but it's so tedious and so easily solved.

728
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,040
Maybe not easily, but solve it's solvable.

729
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:16,560
And you're like, if that's not a massive priority, it's like, how the hell, how is anybody thinking

730
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,520
of running a business here?

731
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,040
Manual distributions of things is just, it's a very archaic system.

732
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,040
It's rough.

733
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,040
Yeah.

734
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,800
Tulip is agreeing with you in chat, by the way.

735
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,640
The same here, Excel with 20 plus sheets to cover 10 weeks.

736
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,640
Oh, dude.

737
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,640
Yeah.

738
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,640
I mean, I have every single time.

739
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,240
Oh, dude, I don't even, I can't even.

740
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:39,280
Oh, and Joseph asked a really good question that I'm going to ask later on.

741
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,560
I'm going to put it in our community questions chat.

742
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,360
Yeah.

743
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,360
Right on.

744
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,360
Yeah, no, I completely identify with the pains and the hardships.

745
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,960
The only thing that changed between you and me, with the obvious that you've been in it

746
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,920
for quite some time, is that the Dow and my business background.

747
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,240
That's the only reason I think that I'm still so motivated.

748
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,880
Otherwise, I reached the same conclusion you did.

749
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,640
I did the same math you did and I came to the same conclusions.

750
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,640
Like this is rough.

751
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,040
Like we're early to the point where I don't think I can sustain an actual business model

752
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,040
here under these conditions.

753
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,080
It was very-

754
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,280
I no longer think it's fair to say that we're early, to be honest with you.

755
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,440
I think that-

756
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,120
Go on.

757
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,200
I think that this has missed.

758
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:35,920
I think that unless there's a course redirection, this is missing its target of being what it's

759
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,960
set out to be.

760
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,280
The white paper is completely different from what it originally was even in 2021.

761
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:47,720
We've got to look at those things and go, is the shift actually beneficial to us or

762
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:52,620
is it to the investors who have taken hold of this company?

763
00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:57,400
At some point you go, I don't know if this is the best UGC platform out there.

764
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,160
I don't know if this is going to be able to-

765
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,600
I don't know if you can say that we're early and things are still shifting and all that

766
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:04,600
stuff.

767
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,120
I hope.

768
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,720
But I also think that that early shift has to be an early shift in a course redirection.

769
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:14,080
They can't continue doing what they're doing now and expect to be successful.

770
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,960
Outpace Roblox and Minecraft and Fortnite.

771
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,320
You're crazy.

772
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,320
You're absolutely insane.

773
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:20,640
Look at those platforms.

774
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,100
Look at what they're doing.

775
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:28,680
In the three years, Fortnite, the Unreal editor for Fortnite wasn't a thing when the sandbox

776
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,820
got created, when the sandbox was popular in 2021.

777
00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:33,840
They shifted.

778
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:39,720
If Fortnite is shifting, why are- there's just so many things that you look around and

779
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:47,040
you go, at the end of the day, do you sit there and rock your boat on these waves or

780
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,440
you just dock for a little bit and wait till the sea gets a little calmer?

781
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,000
And that's the bottom line, I think.

782
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,000
I see.

783
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,400
I'm picking up what you're putting down.

784
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:03,760
I think that makes a lot of sense, especially someone who reached the depths of the sand

785
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,720
fam space that you have.

786
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:07,720
Was there a difference?

787
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,160
Did things change when you became an advanced partner?

788
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,160
No.

789
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,160
Okay.

790
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,520
No, I was thinking it's like an arbitrary title thing.

791
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,320
I just wanted people to have a badge, you know?

792
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,320
Gotcha.

793
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,320
No new clients, nothing.

794
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,400
Yeah, nothing like that.

795
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,400
Got it.

796
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,600
Yeah, I'd always been curious because that advanced partner looks pretty nice.

797
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,560
I mean, it's a nice graphic.

798
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,160
I'll give it to you.

799
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:43,640
It's a nice graphic, but what you get with it is- what you really get with being an advanced

800
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,840
trusted partner of the sandbox is you get a dedicated person to- a person, your account

801
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,840
manager, right?

802
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,160
And they're there to be your liaison through everything.

803
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,440
But they have just as much roadblocks as you do, right?

804
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,240
Like it's not like you're talking to Seb.

805
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:03,000
As a matter of fact, most of the times I would just talk to Seb because it gets things done

806
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,000
faster, right?

807
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,000
Yeah.

808
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,720
I'm doing the same thing.

809
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,840
I'm trying to just liaise to my account manager, not trying to jump the ship too much unless

810
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:11,840
I have to.

811
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:12,840
Same thing.

812
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,840
Yeah.

813
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,840
But-

814
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:15,840
All right, so-

815
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,240
That's the cross of it, yeah.

816
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:25,160
So describe to me like when it was good, what were the highs like?

817
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,040
I mean building with the team, right?

818
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,960
Like that was cool.

819
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:35,840
I do enjoy- we had team meetings every Wednesday and so those meetings are really fun.

820
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,160
Like a proper team.

821
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,560
Yeah, we get together and kind of play the games that we're working on and stuff, catch

822
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:42,560
up with everybody.

823
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,480
I think that those are always good highlights.

824
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,600
We have a lot of all the games that we build, especially all the multiplayer ones, we demo

825
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,800
with the team first and those are some really fun times.

826
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,360
The highest of the high was probably that first game jam win and I think everyone would

827
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,280
probably say the same thing or similar.

828
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,200
Like that first game jam win and going, holy shit, I don't have to look for a job for the

829
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,640
next few months, you know?

830
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,960
That was crazy.

831
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:15,440
I would say probably those moments are the highest of the high.

832
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,120
Was there anything else that stood out to you?

833
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,240
I mean amidst the sea of criticisms that we may have, what were some other standout things

834
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:24,040
for you?

835
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,040
In terms of like...

836
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,760
Just say the overall experience.

837
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,360
The overall experience?

838
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,520
I mean, can't lie, it changed my life, right?

839
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:40,440
Like I'm eternally grateful about- to Seb specifically.

840
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:49,040
I don't extend that gratefulness to every Sandbox staff person or the Sandbox themselves

841
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,920
directly, but Seb, an awesome person.

842
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,600
He's a believer, man.

843
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:56,600
He's a good guy.

844
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,680
I reached back into some 2018 YouTube videos.

845
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:00,680
He's a believer.

846
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,720
At the end of the day, he's a good person.

847
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:08,920
Like I think that was really the thing that was hardest for me and before I put out that

848
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,040
tweet, you know, I had a conversation with Seb.

849
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:16,160
I sent him a message on WhatsApp, sent him a long video, explained everything, gave him

850
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,160
my thanks, you know?

851
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,720
Like it wouldn't be fair for me to leave without giving him that courtesy.

852
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:27,240
And it was really that conversation with him through my, you know, having a call with him

853
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:32,160
that made me realize like there really is nothing better for me to do here than to step

854
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,240
back for now.

855
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,240
Even chatting with him.

856
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:36,960
Like I was like, this is the clear choice.

857
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,440
Actually, I mean, I went into that call hoping that he would say, but wait, there's more.

858
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:42,440
Yeah, yeah.

859
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,440
Never happened.

860
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:51,240
And so after that, I was like, okay, yeah, it's the time to take a step back, right?

861
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:56,680
And then on top of that, like, you know, it's just client work in the sandbox is a very

862
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,400
difficult thing to build.

863
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,640
That's just, that's a bottom line, you know?

864
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:02,640
Yeah.

865
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,640
Cold calling.

866
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:04,640
It's tough groundwork.

867
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:05,640
Yeah.

868
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,840
Even when you get the client, you get the client, you got the project out there, the

869
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:09,840
game maker update happens.

870
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,280
Who's responsible for it?

871
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,280
You know, game's broken.

872
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,280
What do you do?

873
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,280
Right?

874
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,280
You have a service contract?

875
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,280
No.

876
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,000
Is the guy going to be okay with that?

877
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,000
No.

878
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,000
What do you do?

879
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,000
Right?

880
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,000
And no one has answers for these questions.

881
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,240
We're all just making it up.

882
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:27,160
And it's like, you can't just be spending thousands of dollars a month, just trying

883
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,640
to figure it out.

884
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,320
Like I'm not, I'm not wealthy.

885
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,760
So it's like, you got to like, really look at where the money's going and going, well,

886
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,520
that's not a good place to put money right now.

887
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:37,520
Right?

888
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,800
And so that's just where that's yeah, bottom line, I think.

889
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:41,800
Yeah.

890
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,640
I faced this in the real time that's happening to me.

891
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:52,960
I created for Builders Challenge 1 Floor Droppers and within six months, a new game, a game

892
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,440
maker mechanic came that just upended it completely.

893
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,440
It destroyed the mechanic.

894
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:05,120
And now I'm in zero zero, by the way, I made it in season four, but I had to face a choice

895
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,700
of completely rebuilding the game mechanic or finding some emergency fix that would make

896
00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:12,320
it work in time.

897
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,720
And this is something I built in May for Builders Challenge 1.

898
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:22,760
It's already a new update has made it obsolete and broken some of the game logic, the way

899
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,480
the messages are sent.

900
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,640
And it's just like, what am I supposed to do?

901
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,080
I'm not, I'm not a whale.

902
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,440
I'm not wealthy.

903
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,120
So yeah, now, now, now imagine Atari being on the other end of that call and they go,

904
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,160
hey, game's broken.

905
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,120
And you're like, yeah, but you already paid me for it six months ago.

906
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,200
And they're like, it's broken, though, you got to fix it.

907
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,400
And you got to fix it.

908
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,920
And you got to pay your people to fix it for free.

909
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,880
So it's like, yeah, I don't know.

910
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,520
There's a lot of, there's a lot of problems with it.

911
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:59,360
I think if you have a lot of money, if you were in brick Bitcoin early and you love game

912
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,240
development, it's a passion for you and you got time to employ some people and give them

913
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,080
a good life and a good income.

914
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,240
By far, the best thing to do is start a sandbox studio and spend your infinite amount of money

915
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:15,800
on on developing for and giving artists jobs and giving game developers jobs.

916
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:16,800
That's cool.

917
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,320
But if you don't, and you're trying to make money with this, it's, it's a very difficult

918
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,320
thing to do.

919
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,320
Hmm.

920
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,120
Yeah, and I'm still very, very hopeful and optimistic.

921
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:34,040
I haven't yet been in it long enough to have that, that that arch that you have.

922
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,080
But I see where you're coming from and I see the same things you're seeing.

923
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,080
Yeah.

924
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,240
And look, I still think that there's possible for the platform to have success.

925
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,240
I don't think it'll be easy.

926
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:52,480
I think it'll be, and like I said in that tweet, it'll take years, not months.

927
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:58,360
And so for, for that reason, I'm going to give them the space for the next few years

928
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,880
and I'll watch, see what happens.

929
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,320
But there's no reason to ride that wave with them.

930
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,560
Like there's no reason to beat yourself up while they're getting beat up.

931
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,720
It's just, if they'd make it just go back, right?

932
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:14,720
Like I don't need to suffer with every thing, every decision that the sandbox makes right

933
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:15,720
now.

934
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:20,080
If they make good decisions in a couple of years and it's a good idea, then we'll, we'll

935
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,080
make some more games.

936
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,920
But until then it's like, okay.

937
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:24,920
Yeah.

938
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,000
And now got it.

939
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Got it.

940
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,580
Now I'm tracking what you're picking up, what you're putting down.

941
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:36,040
So the next one I had was whether or not you were involved in sit voting and I already

942
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,040
know the answer to that.

943
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,680
So we're just going to look also over that.

944
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,880
Yeah, for the record, I think the Dow is dumb.

945
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:45,880
I'll just put that down.

946
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,140
You think it's dumb?

947
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:49,040
I think it's the dumbest thing that the sandbox has done.

948
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,040
Oh man, I think it's great.

949
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:51,760
And they've made some pretty dumb decisions.

950
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:57,520
I think, I think that offloading business decisions that are primarily a concern of

951
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,640
a business to a community is a sheer lack of responsibility.

952
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,280
And that's about all I have to say about that.

953
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,800
That's the only SIP I ever voted on was the one for Magic Palette, but that was because

954
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:16,160
I was supporting those guys, but not because I thought it was something that needed to

955
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,600
go through a Dow.

956
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:18,600
Well thank you.

957
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,680
Thank you for at least voting on that one like that.

958
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:26,880
I'm really pulling for Pepe and, and I'm going to do another update soon when we have another

959
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,040
demo to show because yeah, I'm excited for that.

960
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,720
I think it's going to be great.

961
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:37,640
But yeah, then term in terms of the Dow, it's got it.

962
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:38,640
Got it.

963
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:39,640
I'm tracking.

964
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:44,360
It's like it's I think I classify I think it's bold.

965
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:49,480
I think it's a very bold decision and we'll see where it goes.

966
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:50,480
Yeah, fair.

967
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,920
Fair enough.

968
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:57,520
So I had a question that was what needs to be true for you to return.

969
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:05,000
However, Joseph asked an even better question and his was, do you think you would come back

970
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:12,480
to the sandbox if you could build an experience and mint an unlimited number of access passes?

971
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,600
For example, you meant a million access passes and sell those like a traditional game.

972
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,520
So people play the game pay to play the game.

973
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:27,120
Yeah, if there's monetization, but yeah, and I and this is part of that.

974
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:32,840
It takes years, not months, you know, talking with the sandbox and talking to leadership

975
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,240
there you and I mean, everybody knows this how difficult it is for business decisions

976
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:39,480
to pass through a corporation.

977
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:44,200
And so something like that takes years to implement at least right.

978
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,480
And so or at least it's not done like in months.

979
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:53,040
So yeah, of course, this is part of the package that I say would have to happen for the sandbox

980
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,440
to attract studios that have left.

981
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,440
Right.

982
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,360
We have to have monetization.

983
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:07,880
We have to have ease of the leaderboard tools and platform features that are available.

984
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,680
Claim page, all the things that we've all talked about is that's all part of like a

985
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,680
package.

986
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,880
I think that that in that's included.

987
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,880
Yeah.

988
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:16,880
Got it.

989
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,840
And so the thing with games is just a joke right now.

990
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:24,640
We pay to get people to play our games instead of having people play pay to play our games.

991
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,600
Like and then that's where I am.

992
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:32,880
So they you pay for people to play and then they ask you where their money is.

993
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,960
And so it's like you get slapped from this hand and then slap from the other.

994
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:38,960
Yeah.

995
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,960
Tulip says that TSB as a hobby developer as a side job is nice.

996
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,920
TSB as a life income is not yet reliable enough.

997
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:47,920
And I completely agree.

998
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,920
Yeah.

999
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:55,960
And for a little while there, I could say that it was possible for like definitely indie

1000
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,800
developers, right?

1001
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:07,520
If you're just you and a buddy doing it, probably possible in 2021, 2022, not 2023, 2024.

1002
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:08,520
Fair.

1003
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,720
That's fair.

1004
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:12,720
I identify a lot with what you said.

1005
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:19,240
I think I'm just two years to the right of you before before I reach the same point you

1006
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:20,240
do.

1007
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:25,960
And because I'm I'm such a I'm a serial entrepreneur and the Dow has entered the market where it's

1008
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,120
like business, community and gaming.

1009
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,320
I'm just I'm I'm sold.

1010
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,320
I want to make it better through the Dow because I'm I'm very business oriented.

1011
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,120
That's my background.

1012
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,680
And so I see that now as my outlet.

1013
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,140
But give me two years.

1014
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:41,600
Maybe I'll be where you are.

1015
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:42,840
I'm optimistic.

1016
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:43,840
I'm optimistic.

1017
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,480
And that's a good place to be.

1018
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,680
I think you should be optimistic.

1019
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,680
If you're not optimistic, what are you doing?

1020
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:49,680
Right.

1021
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:50,680
But what are you doing?

1022
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:51,680
Yeah.

1023
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:52,680
Yeah.

1024
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:53,680
I think it's good to be optimistic.

1025
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,040
I'm I could say that I'm neither pessimistic or optimistic at the moment.

1026
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,920
I'm just kind of a bystander.

1027
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:02,600
I I haven't even grabbed popcorn.

1028
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,240
I'm just kind of letting it do its thing.

1029
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:06,240
Right.

1030
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:08,640
You know, I'm also growing the family.

1031
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,000
You know, I got a baby on the way.

1032
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,000
He's he'll be here.

1033
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,000
Congratulations.

1034
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,760
So I'm like I'm like kind of focused on a few other things at the moment.

1035
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:17,760
Life turns upside down.

1036
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,600
Is it a girl or you're just waiting?

1037
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:21,920
Girl, girl, girl.

1038
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,040
Congratulations, my man.

1039
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:25,720
Right on.

1040
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:31,360
So yeah, you know, it's like a lot of life comes at you fast and you can't just sit here,

1041
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,600
you know, and it's awesome.

1042
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,360
But you can't just sit here playing in the sand.

1043
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,360
So right.

1044
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,920
Well, I mean, I don't want to belabor it.

1045
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,440
I think we hit everything that that I think the community has asked me to ask that I was

1046
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:46,440
myself curious.

1047
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,880
Do you have any special shout outs, special thank yous you'd like to give out?

1048
00:50:50,880 --> 00:51:00,360
The team that the team is the the people I have to thank the most they put up with me

1049
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,000
figuring out what I was doing for the last few years.

1050
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,800
So Zombie, Wayward, Steven, Biagi, Keratross, Gnarls.

1051
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:15,200
Those are the guys that that really put everything together for the last few, few months specifically.

1052
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,120
Shout out to Nate too.

1053
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,760
He was part of the team for a while before he stepped back from the sandbox for a while.

1054
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,240
You know, those guys, those guys made things fun.

1055
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:26,720
I think that was a lot of fun.

1056
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:31,520
Also I got to thank Hottle Hill, who is basically a team member, I feel.

1057
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Hi, Low Hill.

1058
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,520
Hottle Hill.

1059
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,560
Oh, Hottle Hill with one L.

1060
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,240
Hottle has been everywhere that we are.

1061
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,480
You can find her and I think that's community members like her are things that make you

1062
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:48,480
want to keep going.

1063
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:57,200
I think it's a shame to not be able to do more things like this because the opportunity

1064
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,640
to meet people like that.

1065
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,440
But you know, it is what it is.

1066
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,600
Hottle was one of my, for Builders Challenge 1, she was one of the people who helped.

1067
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,360
I have her listed as a partner, but she was one of the ones who would stream floor droppers

1068
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,600
and playing it.

1069
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,760
And I never, like she was the easiest person to work with, never asked anything or demanded

1070
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:20,760
anything in return.

1071
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,400
It was just a, how can I help?

1072
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,920
And I really, really enjoy Hottle.

1073
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,880
And I was just on her stream before we were podcasting doing her marbles game.

1074
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,720
And it was, I love Hottle.

1075
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:32,720
She's great.

1076
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:34,720
Another shout out would be to OneBox.

1077
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,240
I call OneBox our one true gamer.

1078
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:44,600
I think he's the only person in our community that is a gamer first and the rewards come

1079
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,040
second.

1080
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:56,360
If we had a hundred OneBoxes, I would have been making games forever, but that's just

1081
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,800
not what we have.

1082
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,560
People like OneBox play the game for the love of the game and they will spend time there

1083
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,600
just to see what you did.

1084
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,480
And when, I mean, especially for games like ours, where we hid so many things at first,

1085
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,600
like all the original games that we made were, I could say that probably no one ever found

1086
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:15,960
everything in them.

1087
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,280
And OneBox would be there turning over every stone.

1088
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,440
The Easter eggs specialist.

1089
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:23,440
Those are gamers.

1090
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,360
Those are the guys that you want playing your game.

1091
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,320
I think you have that category of gamer and then you have the other one that's in the

1092
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,000
sandbox, which is here because it's easy to make a little bit of money.

1093
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,920
Make that go up.

1094
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,920
But yeah, exactly.

1095
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,000
But, but a shout out to him as well.

1096
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,000
Yeah.

1097
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,000
And give it to me one more time.

1098
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,000
You started with Zombie.

1099
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,440
What were the names on your team?

1100
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:52,920
Zombie Mandy Wayward, Stephen, Biagi, Keratraz, Mr. Norrals and Nate as well.

1101
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,280
Hanula Nate.

1102
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,280
Mr. Norrals?

1103
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:57,680
Norrals.

1104
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,960
He's a, that's my best friend from Florida, Kyle.

1105
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,080
He's known him since I was 14.

1106
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,560
And I was like, he's always funny, funny story about Kyle.

1107
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,680
He always said he wasn't an artist and always said like I could paint and he can't do art

1108
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,000
and all that stuff.

1109
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,760
And I got him a job working with the studio and he made voxel art.

1110
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,560
And so now he can never say that he was not an artist anymore because he made voxel art.

1111
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,560
That's right, Kyle.

1112
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:35,360
Zombie Mandy, I think I missed one between Stephen.

1113
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,360
Biagi Stephen, Keratraz.

1114
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:38,360
Keratraz.

1115
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,360
That's yeah.

1116
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:40,360
Yeah.

1117
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,360
Give me a little leeway.

1118
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,360
Close.

1119
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,360
I'll give you the spellings later.

1120
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:45,360
All right, cool.

1121
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,360
Yeah.

1122
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:51,400
I'm really big into credit where credit's due.

1123
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,920
Like we do not get here by ourselves.

1124
00:54:53,920 --> 00:55:00,880
We have teams, we have people who help mentor us to make good wise decisions.

1125
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:07,760
And you know, Seb, the sandbox team, people in the chat, Tulip, Joseph, Hoddle.

1126
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,520
I think I saw a few others.

1127
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:16,400
Nazmin, Sebga, just community members who you see time and time and again who contribute

1128
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,320
to the overall good, contribute to you.

1129
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:27,320
It's really special to call them out to recognize their contributions.

1130
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,960
And appreciate you shouting out to them.

1131
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Yeah, man.

1132
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:32,640
Yeah.

1133
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,440
I think that's about as much as I wanted to delve into.

1134
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,600
Are there any open topics?

1135
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Oh, I did have an open topic.

1136
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,000
Dude, tell me about the mushrooms and your artwork.

1137
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,800
Like what is it about the mushrooms?

1138
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,240
Is there a specific story?

1139
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:51,960
Your artwork is very focused.

1140
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:52,960
Yeah.

1141
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,200
So another shout out.

1142
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,200
This is to a YouTuber.

1143
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,520
His name is Truthless.

1144
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,240
He put out a video.

1145
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:06,520
So Truthless, have you heard of him?

1146
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,840
Is a YouTuber, makes a lot of art videos and stuff like that, motivational videos and stuff

1147
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:11,840
like that.

1148
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,880
Really cool guy.

1149
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,800
He put out a video, I think it was like four or five years ago at this point.

1150
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,920
I don't even know.

1151
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:25,280
And at the time I was just trying to figure out, a big problem for me as an artist was

1152
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,160
you'd have a blank piece of paper in front of you and you're like, well, I want to get

1153
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:29,160
better.

1154
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:30,160
I want to draw something.

1155
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,160
I don't know what to draw.

1156
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,200
So you spend time looking for inspiration and blah, blah, blah.

1157
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:38,960
So he put out a video that was like how to defeat that part of the artist's struggle.

1158
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,560
It was like, you don't know what to draw.

1159
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,920
And it's like, if like artists, artists, artists, writer block.

1160
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:46,920
Yeah.

1161
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,760
Mostly sometimes like that.

1162
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,960
It's like you stare at a blank canvas and you're like, well, I don't know what to put

1163
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:53,960
on them.

1164
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:54,960
Right.

1165
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:55,960
Got it.

1166
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,120
And so it's a big barrier because if you can trick yourself into going, well, I don't know

1167
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,120
what to draw.

1168
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,440
So I just won't draw, you know, and then another day goes by and another day goes.

1169
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:10,480
So in order you defeating that is like a really important step into just being creative overall.

1170
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,480
Right.

1171
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,880
So he put out a video that was basically like, in order to solve that, what you do is just

1172
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,160
focus on one thing for an entire year.

1173
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,440
And so at the time I was just drawing little doodles.

1174
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,320
I had this, I would make stickers.

1175
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,760
I still have a ton of stickers.

1176
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:33,520
I made stickers for like after my marketing business kind of imploded in COVID, I just

1177
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,560
started drawing and making stickers and selling stickers for a while and stuff like that.

1178
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,160
And it was always like, what do I draw today?

1179
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:41,160
Right.

1180
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,480
It was always like pop culture themes.

1181
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,720
And so I was drawing these mushrooms for some reason.

1182
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,560
Like I would draw little mushrooms and they were fun to do.

1183
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:55,800
And so in his video, he basically, his thesis is find one thing to draw and just draw that

1184
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:56,800
for an entire year.

1185
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,120
Don't draw anything but that.

1186
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,520
Every time you go, what did I draw?

1187
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:00,520
That's what you're drawing.

1188
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:01,520
Right.

1189
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,080
And so I had to pick a theme that I thought I would want to do.

1190
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,800
I think his was ducks or swans or something like that.

1191
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,320
He like drew ducks for an entire year or something like that.

1192
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:11,320
It was like an animal.

1193
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,320
So I was like mushrooms.

1194
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,500
I just draw mushrooms for an entire year.

1195
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:23,120
And so this was like, I don't know, 2018 or something like that, 2019 or something that

1196
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:28,200
I started just like listening to his video and just drawing mushrooms and stuff.

1197
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,040
And I was like probably half a year into it when I drew the fun guys.

1198
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,240
This was back when I still lived in a tiny house.

1199
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:36,560
I drew the fun guys.

1200
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,240
I drew the first of the mushroom houses.

1201
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,060
So let me just take a look at here.

1202
00:58:44,060 --> 00:58:49,160
So this is one of the, this is the first little, well, sorry, cameras.

1203
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:50,160
Oh yeah, yeah.

1204
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:51,800
I see that on your website.

1205
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,680
So yeah, so there you go.

1206
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:59,440
So this is the mushroom house that basically became the figure and everything.

1207
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,940
This figure.

1208
00:59:01,940 --> 00:59:05,320
So that's how I got started with drawing mushrooms.

1209
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,760
I just started drawing these little guys and I would sell these little things for like

1210
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,840
20, 30 bucks a pop, these little watercolors.

1211
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:16,080
And at the time I was like, cool, and people like the mushrooms.

1212
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,080
And so I just kind of stuck with it and kept drawing mushrooms.

1213
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:25,080
And that's why it was literally just picking an object and I picked mushrooms.

1214
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,600
I could have, I could have been drawing, I don't know, frogs right now, but it's mushrooms.

1215
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:30,600
I don't know.

1216
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:31,600
I like mushrooms.

1217
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,600
They're very cool.

1218
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:33,600
I don't eat mushrooms.

1219
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:39,120
So I call it, it's, I say it's part of my, I don't eat my own kind, you know, so I don't

1220
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,720
eat the fun guys.

1221
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,480
But they're fascinating.

1222
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,960
They're fascinating specimens.

1223
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,400
Their mushrooms are very interesting.

1224
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,360
They're like the closest thing to aliens other than octopus, I think that we have on this

1225
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:54,360
planet.

1226
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,800
Yeah, they have a fascinating biochemistry.

1227
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,960
Yeah, they're interesting.

1228
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:03,920
Well, previous, actually up until this year, this year we found a larger organism.

1229
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,760
I think it's a bio, a sea kelp.

1230
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:13,100
But prior to that, the largest known organism on the planet was a mushroom that lived in

1231
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:14,680
Oregon and Washington.

1232
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,160
And it is 2000 acres big.

1233
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,440
If you don't know mushrooms for the most part.

1234
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:21,440
Yeah.

1235
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,960
So mushrooms, actually the mushroom that you see that pops up above the ground, that's

1236
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,000
actually the fruit of the mushroom.

1237
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,480
Kind of like an apple is the fruit of the apple tree.

1238
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,100
The fruiting body of a mushroom is the thing that pops up.

1239
01:00:33,100 --> 01:00:36,280
So the spores and all that stuff, that's the little cap.

1240
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,040
That's the actual mushroom fruit.

1241
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,120
Underneath is the actual mushroom mycelium.

1242
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,080
And the mycelium makes up most of, it's like an iceberg.

1243
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,240
You only see 10% of the iceberg on top of the water.

1244
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:53,640
The mycelium network underneath the mushroom is what actually is the actual mushroom.

1245
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,680
And where actually most of the medicinal properties from mushrooms come from and all that shit.

1246
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:02,720
But the largest mycelium patch is a 3.5 square mile fung.

1247
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:03,720
Yeah, there you go.

1248
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:04,720
Holy smokes.

1249
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,440
I didn't even know that was possible.

1250
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,560
Crazy, right?

1251
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:09,560
That's crazy.

1252
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Yeah.

1253
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,560
It's fascinating stuff.

1254
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:13,560
Oh my gosh.

1255
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,560
It looks like a fish.

1256
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,600
Yeah, it's a very cool, and it's all underground.

1257
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,800
It's a giant network of mushrooms.

1258
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,360
And so in that area, if you pop, if you see a mushroom over there and you see a mushroom

1259
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,520
over there, they're probably from the same patch.

1260
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,200
Yikes.

1261
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,120
I will never look at the mushroom the same way again.

1262
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:33,120
Thank you for ruining it for me.

1263
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:34,120
Yeah, you're welcome.

1264
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,120
Appreciate that.

1265
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,200
I had a similar experience.

1266
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,160
I come from the writing culture.

1267
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:45,000
So where you would paint, I would write articles and write novels.

1268
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,440
When I hit my writer's block, the way I got out of it was I imagined a new story and that

1269
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:54,200
ended up being the books that I ended up publishing to Amazon.

1270
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,240
And that ended up being the one that won awards and stuff.

1271
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:58,240
It was crazy, man.

1272
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:03,240
It was just like this random thing I invented in my small little tiny house equivalent dorm

1273
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:07,920
room where I lived for a year.

1274
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,360
It's funny how the creator process just kind of unfolds.

1275
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,600
It just comes from the most random of things sometimes.

1276
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,360
Yeah, you just got to let yourself be creative.

1277
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:25,680
And then I think opportunities with that creativity pop up.

1278
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:30,520
I think it's hard to figure out what you would do in order to make money with painting, even

1279
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:31,520
writing.

1280
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,480
Like, oh, I'm going to be a successful writer, I'm going to sell thousands of millions of

1281
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:35,480
books.

1282
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,240
It's like good luck.

1283
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,280
It's not just writing the book and then all of a sudden it sells.

1284
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,280
It's not just painting the painting and then all of a sudden it sells.

1285
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:52,360
But doing it gives you like, it's really dumb to have the end result and how do you sell

1286
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,720
the painting, how do you sell the book be the thing that stops you from making the painting

1287
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:57,040
or the book.

1288
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,280
I think if you approach it from I'm just going to be creative and see what happens here at

1289
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:05,960
Mentality, the results are just they speak for themselves, right?

1290
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,440
It's like never what is the quote?

1291
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,160
Don't ever expect anything and you'll never be disappointed, right?

1292
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,160
Some like that.

1293
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:15,160
Yeah.

1294
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:16,160
Yeah.

1295
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,480
And this has been a great conversation.

1296
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:28,080
I really appreciate you taking the time to to expound upon your perspective.

1297
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:33,840
I definitely learned a lot and maybe just talking about mushrooms and talking about

1298
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,960
all the background, the buildup to where we are now.

1299
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,840
Thank you for spending time to help me understand.

1300
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:42,840
Yeah, man.

1301
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:43,840
Thanks.

1302
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:44,840
This has been fun.

1303
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:45,840
Yeah.

1304
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:52,400
For the spaces, the normal thing, Mondays, Saturdays, Tuesdays, monthly.

1305
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,120
I haven't seen San Fam with Pickaxe and Bruno.

1306
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,200
I haven't seen him do anything as of late.

1307
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,160
I know he mentioned he might take a little bit of a break.

1308
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,120
It seems like he's done that now.

1309
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:07,080
So as of right now, if you'd like to, if you'd like to talk about your story as well, I'd

1310
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,080
love to talk to you.

1311
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:15,440
And as a good farewell send off for now to Shay, thank you for everything you've done

1312
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:16,440
for the community.

1313
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:21,240
Thank you for your involvement and thank you for just being a real community member where

1314
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,440
you've contributed to the positive growth of people around you.

1315
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:27,440
Thanks, man.

1316
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:28,440
Appreciate it.

1317
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:29,440
Yeah.

1318
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:30,440
It's been fun.

1319
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:31,440
Yeah.

1320
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,520
So in terms of I normally raid people at the very end and the only people I see on right

1321
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,400
now is AU 24K.

1322
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,920
Is there anything, anyone specific that you see that we could raid?

1323
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,000
He's a great guy.

1324
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,000
Let's raid.

1325
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,080
Hey, I think that's a great, great way to go.

1326
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:48,080
Yeah.

1327
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,080
All right.

1328
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,080
AU Gold Housed.

1329
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:51,080
I didn't win.

1330
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:56,600
Gosh darn it on when we did the leaderboard for that to try and kill as many people as

1331
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:57,600
you can.

1332
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:03,200
So next time though, next time we'll get them.

1333
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,320
So we'll start the raid.

1334
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,720
And again, thank you all for your time.

1335
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:12,600
And most especially to Shay, thank you for your time and looking forward to seeing you

1336
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:13,600
again in the future.

1337
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:14,600
Thanks, man.

1338
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:15,600
Appreciate you.

1339
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:16,600
Thank you, everybody.

1340
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,240
I hope to see you again soon and catch me on the paintings.

1341
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:21,240
Peace out.

1342
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:22,880
And yes, to Shay does paintings.

1343
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:27,840
I just go in just to watch a nice little meditation music in the background painting something

1344
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,000
that you can't figure out quite at first.

1345
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,840
But then he has like an inspiration of what he's gunning for.

1346
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,480
And it turns out, I really love seeing how it's manifested.

1347
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,040
So thank you all for your time.

1348
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:50,680
And San Fam, we'll see you.