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Hello everyone.

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This is Zandale podcast number 23.

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As you can see, Joseph is here with me today and we are going over kind of a nebulous subject

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that has started since the Tao was introduced.

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And basically what we're after here are some things started emerging as many of us started

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interacting with the Tao and a lot of it was based on based on how we are to think about

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the money being spent and it the latest instance the flashpoint of that happening was the ambassador

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program.

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So out of that came some situations slash scenarios that I really felt the need to do

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a podcast about and who better to do it with than big brain Joseph who's been in the industry

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for quite so long.

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Hey Mark, what's up?

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Congratulations again on their sit that just passed.

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Mark Baggo in the chat who is a Sandbox Academy in the Philippines.

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Really looking forward to doing some follow up podcasts with you as we go through that.

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But today is going to be about the house rules.

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More of an intellectual thought exercise and I'm looking forward to it.

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I'm a little bit nervous about it because there are some touchy subjects that we can

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that we may or may not be able to engage in because of just the way the Tao is unfolding

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and all of the background behind it.

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So with that we'll move on to scope of the talk.

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So today is about discussion.

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Joseph and I we became prepared for questions and stuff like that and an exploration of

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the idea for how we approach the money, the sand that Tao has to spend.

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Some questions that came about, the community asked that I don't feel like got a good answer

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that isn't obvious in the Constitution and all the different AMAs that I've heard so

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far.

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I'm not sure how to think about it.

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So that's basically what this is about.

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Joseph and I do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.

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And again the sandbox foundation is the Tao.

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We are not your financial or legal advisors and nothing we say is to be taken as such.

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Scoreboard.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Scoreboard, so as I mentioned, SIP number 11 and 12 had just passed.

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One being Sandbox Academy in the Philippines and the other being the Sandbox Ambassador

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Program.

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Both passed because the sandbox applied its 27 million voting power to it.

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It was at 60% and 40% quorum respectively and then within the final hour, Sandbox applied

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its voting power, pushed it above the quorum that was needed to make it pass.

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But both of them had yes votes that were, both of them had yeses before the quote, Sandbox

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applied its voting and Sandbox did it in abstention.

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So they abstained.

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So they kept the voting yes and no, the same ratio and that's what propelled it forward.

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That brings the 13 SIPs closed.

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There are two that are in draft on the forums.

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One is mine.

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My first SIP was just Windows resizing and resolution options for the creators mostly

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so that we can do VoxEdit and Game Maker and all that stuff side by side on a monitor.

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And then the other one is Metaverse and Disability by Meta Pura, Italian based studio and trying

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to get them on podcasts as well.

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SIP 13, NFT Evolution, which is crafting NFT drops by Crypto Diplo.

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We'll have that later today.

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And the checkbook.

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So with the recent passages of the SIPs, we're now at 15% of the DAO having been spent 2.3

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million sand out of 15.5 million budget.

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And DAObased.ai added this one to assistance last we talked.

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It's got some metrics on the 211,000 token holders in the Sandbox, 1800 voters, voting

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wallets and of that 6,777 votes have been cast.

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So pretty cool.

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Pretty cool numbers.

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Starting to pull together some data, some earned value metrics out of this stuff now.

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And so let's get to introductions.

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Joseph, remind us who you are and why the big brain.

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Sure.

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Good morning, afternoon, evening, everybody.

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Hey, my name is Joseph, the Vision X Matting.

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I have been in the Sandbox ecosystem for now over four, coming up on four.

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It's really close to four years.

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Worked internally as staff, worked externally on a company called the Council where we do

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quality assurance testing for the games or experiences that release in seasonal content

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or mid-season content for the Sandbox game.

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And I was, when working with the social media team as part of a community management, the

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guy pretty much that you would go to if you had questions about the white paper or if

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you had questions about something that happened on chain with your transaction, you know,

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if you didn't understand why didn't this blockchain thing work?

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Why did it work?

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Where's my money?

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Right.

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People would come to me for that.

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So as you can see, Joseph has been around for a long, long time.

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And one of the people he was heavily involved, as he mentioned briefly there, involved with

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the white paper and token launch on Binance.

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So if there's anyone who has a solid foundation of where we have been, how we used to think

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of tokenomics around all of this and someone who can translate that into today in the DAO,

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how it's now we're using Sand as part of tokenomics?

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And then tying that in with what we're seeing with the SIPs that are being passed and the

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comments that are surrounding it, both from the DAO team, the SIP authors and the community.

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So that's, that's one of the main reasons why he came first to mind for me at least.

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And I'm Lancer.

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So I'm the podcast host.

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I'm a landowner, published two experiences through MetaWorlds.

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And I have a contract negotiation background, a contract writing, proposal writing background,

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which is why you see that I have five SIPs that I've already submitted.

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Because I do this professionally and I love business, community and gaming.

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And the DAO is the intersection of all three.

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So that's why I've been pushing out so many episodes because this is just a really interesting

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topic and how the politics of real life play into digital currency and gaming and community

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all at the same time.

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So here we are.

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So the discussion.

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So today's kind of separate into three case studies, three things that cropped up in the

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past month that to me brought about this question mark for how the DAO, how should we approach

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the DAO spending its money?

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Case study number one was the newly relaunched ambassador program.

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There were some discussions around there that we'll get into first on comments made by the

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SIP author, which was the sandbox marketing team we found out, comments made by the DAO

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administrator during the AMA, comments made by Seb, COO and co-founder of sandbox.

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And then how that the comments that the SIP itself requested for and what is their contradiction

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in the way we in the theoretical approach.

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That's what we want to get into first.

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The other two case study, the crafters UDC creator SIP.

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It was a draft SIP, so it didn't go to public comment yet, but there were some interesting

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intersections and correlations that Cyril's response gave that I think play into this

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discussion.

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Case study C is the SIP 10, the blockchain events that did not pass.

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So it failed to meet quorum, but that would have funded 2024 conferences and a number

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of studios and individuals attending on the sandbox's behalf and in some cases promoting

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or not the sandbox DAO.

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And that promoting or not really is what thrust it into it being a case study here.

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Because as you've read the SIP, it did not talk about promoting the DAO.

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And then in my Sandow podcast 11 with chips who represented the authors for that SIP,

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he in midstream said, well, we can, if we're getting funded by the DAO, I think I guess

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we can do that and do posters and all sorts of stuff to onboard people to the doubt self.

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And that I was just as surprised, I think as he was when he asked me, well, what do

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you think?

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How can I make it better?

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And so that brings it into here.

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And then we'll get to the very end question, I think, which is a smoking gun is, and we

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might answer by the time we even get to it.

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Should people who get the money, who get money from the DAO be allowed to answer to the sandbox

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instead of the DAO?

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And I mean that exclusively.

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So probably hit that first.

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Before we start, Joseph, what do you think?

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What's on your mind?

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How do you, how would you like to go?

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Well, I love first of all, the conversation that's happening because I think all of these

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topics really sort of flow into each other and they help both the community and the sandbox

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better understand what the DAO needs to succeed.

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So one of the targets that the DAO has had recently is that they want to make sure that

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the, not only can we reach a quorum on things without the sandbox intervening, but also

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that the quorum can be really a secondary thought.

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Like there should be so many voters with lands, with sand, that these topics, regardless of

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what they are, have enough engagement to just pass or fail.

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They shouldn't need, you know, they shouldn't need something like what we saw recently where

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the sandbox comes in, puts in an abstain vote just to push it over the quorum limit.

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It just shouldn't be, you know, a thing.

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I think all of this conversation that we're about to have today leans to that, where either

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the community may become disillusioned by this mix in communication, this uncertainty

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of these decision-makings, or there will be certainty that is given by the way that this

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is working.

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And that certainty could come in the part of the sandbox game, it could come on part

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of the administration over the DAO, it could come on part of the community itself, right?

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But anyway, I think what's going on right now is, and I'm going to hit on some of these

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topics more from my understanding, is going to be evident based on the way that this system

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was built.

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And you know, this is a difficult thing to do, to build a DAO, to make this process get

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kickstarted.

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It's also a difficult thing to do to understand how this was always, again, in the plan.

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I mentioned this last time I was on the show.

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But also, how do we transition from a centralized building structure to a decentralized building

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structure?

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Because that's really what you're going to see in a decentralized platform over time.

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Especially, again, as we get to the end of that roadmap for the sandbox game, it should

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be assumed that the community would pick up and run with this product while there are

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still some staff that must exist to manage the infrastructure.

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So talking about what happens today is talking about that balance between that centralized

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infrastructure and the decentralized voting and implementation mechanisms.

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That's interesting you say that.

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I don't think I really connected that piece about the quorum and how we reach a point

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where it's near, we're only talking about pass or fail and not whether or not quorum

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is reached.

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And tying that to the certainty that the community needs to be able to participate in that sort

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of thing.

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Yes.

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And all of this, by the way, this is me approaching it from, I don't know the answer.

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I'm trying to figure out how where I stand on this.

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I just know that there's something unsettling about what it is I'm seeing.

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I want to reach a point to where I can articulate what that uneasy feeling is.

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And so this is this sort of stuff is helping me get there in real time.

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I'm at the point where I see it.

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I see what I think is a contradiction, but I don't have enough information, enough data

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points to be convinced of that.

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Maybe I just I don't understand because I've only been in the Dow for May 28th when it

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was announced.

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And I'm like, what in the world is a Dow?

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And so this begins my journey.

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So I'm in full sponge learning mode, applying all of the business, entrepreneurial product

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management, program management, contract writing, negotiation acumen that I have in the professional

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side of the house to make sense of these very confusing, almost like cross purposes in the

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way people talk.

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And I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure what to make of it.

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So I'm hoping that we can excavate this and explore this through just the conversation

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of what is it that I'm seeing when I see this person say a this person says B and this person

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says C and yet we're all supposed to come to a resolution question mark.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah.

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I mean, just to touch on that really quickly.

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You're also going to never really be able to see the full conversation in a centralized

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business infrastructure because those folks, including myself, are under non disclosure

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agreement for certain acts and actions.

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So if you propose tomorrow, hey, we need to have season six of the data or whatever.

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You know what I mean?

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Like this needs to happen.

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There's going to everybody would just go, oh, I don't know.

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That's crazy because there's there's no way to say that is or it is not going to happen

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because of that that restriction from the non disclosure agreement.

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And then there's definitely going to be one or two people in the company that are going

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like, you know what I mean?

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Like it's just it doesn't really matter what the topic is.

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There's always a few of those.

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You know, if you talk about like, oh, here's some changes that we need to make the box

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at it, you may.

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And again, I don't know the details of the proposal or the details of the team working

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on the box and any of that sort of thing at the moment.

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But your pitch, right?

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You've got your proposal up there to change the size of the window that may already have

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been being done.

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And then you go and you do all this proposal and you put it up there and they go, yeah,

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you're like, we don't need that because we're already doing it.

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Just that makes sense.

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You know, that it won't be able to talk about it out loud.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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They're part of their feedback was that this is some of this is already in the backlog.

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I think some of it wasn't until I proposed that SIP and the product team saw.

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But I don't know for certain.

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They said, so it's the backlog.

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And I'm like, right.

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Well, part of the SIP is for it to be done with the next two releases rather than 2025

233
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:07,080
because I've been waiting on resolution options and window resizing since 2021.

234
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,080
So right.

235
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,080
Yeah.

236
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,080
Yeah.

237
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,440
And there's there's not like.

238
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,680
I mean, there are some light technical restrictions to that.

239
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:23,480
But really, like, you know, changing that window frame is like just making it have a

240
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:30,400
responsive scene instead of a static scene based on percentages of your screen or what

241
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,400
pixels.

242
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,400
Yeah.

243
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,400
Yeah.

244
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,400
You know.

245
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,400
Yeah.

246
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,400
Yeah.

247
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,280
So for what it's worth, that's up there now.

248
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:46,400
But I'll have to interview myself or something here in the next week or two.

249
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,640
Yeah.

250
00:17:48,640 --> 00:18:03,840
So I'm in full sponge mode, wanting to understand the full environment that appears to be in

251
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:16,440
conflict or contradicting itself with no clear resolution or academic approach.

252
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:24,200
So I'm going to go ahead and start with the first one.

253
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,800
So case study number one, case study A, relaunching the ambassador program.

254
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:38,520
So here's the setup in the forum discussion with the TSB team, the ambassadors, all my

255
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:45,360
friends responded back to my questions that the ambassadors will have a contractual agreement

256
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,920
with the sandbox, that contract will auto renew on a monthly basis.

257
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,760
And then this is quoting, we may leverage ambassadors to distribute information for

258
00:18:54,760 --> 00:19:00,200
a launch, support a partnership launch, promote a SIP, etc.

259
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,320
Now that was later on clarified to the AMA.

260
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:12,560
And at the AMA on 30 August, so that was after this message was given to me by all my friends

261
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,560
and on the forums, Amit, is it Amit or Amit?

262
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:17,560
Amit.

263
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:18,560
Amit.

264
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:19,560
Okay.

265
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,560
Okay.

266
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,560
I've been calling him Amit.

267
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,560
Apologies, Amit.

268
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,880
So at 30 minutes in, Amit said, the sandboxes is seen ambassador program has been managed

269
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,880
by the sandboxes own community management team.

270
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,800
And this will remain the case.

271
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,560
The Dow won't be the active managers of the TSB ambassador program.

272
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,160
It will be the source of support.

273
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,480
Any money.

274
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,320
The actual management will remain with the community team of which the existing ambassadors

275
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,000
are mentioned Panda Pops and others.

276
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,240
And also Joseph raised his hand there.

277
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,480
Cyril then said after that, oh, go ahead.

278
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,800
Oh, sorry, I was actually waving at the chat.

279
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,800
Okay.

280
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:07,760
Cyril, Cyril then said, a few minutes later, there's no such thing as reporting to the

281
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:13,680
Dallas community because the Dow community and the sandbox community is the same thing.

282
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:20,600
And thus starts, hey, Pepe, and thus starts my confusion into all of this.

283
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,880
You've got, I underlined the portions, which were what seemed to be the contradiction.

284
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,880
Yep.

285
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,120
The ambassadors say there's a contractual agreement.

286
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:33,160
That contract will renew.

287
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,720
Then they say, we're going to leverage the ambassadors to distribute information.

288
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,240
That will be part of the communication channels.

289
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,560
Then during the AMA, Amit says, this will remain the case that the sandbox team will

290
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:50,200
be managing the ambassador program through the community management team.

291
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,400
Then he says, this, it'll be, the Dow will be the source of support, meaning funding

292
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,400
it.

293
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,800
And then Cyril says, because the Dow community and the sandbox community is the same thing,

294
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:07,160
there's no need to ask the question about whether or not the Dow reports to, or whether

295
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,400
or not the ambassador program reports to the Dow because it's all the same community.

296
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,400
Yeah.

297
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:14,400
Okay.

298
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,160
Let's start off with the first basic fact.

299
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,320
Sandbox foundation and the sandbox game company are two separate legal entities.

300
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,320
All right.

301
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,320
That is true.

302
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,240
So that is the A number one where I start off with all this.

303
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,240
Okay.

304
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,000
Joseph, what do you think?

305
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,400
Okay.

306
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,920
One of the many roles when I was in the community management team at the sandbox game officially,

307
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:45,600
I was the lead ambassador, which means that I was the person who helped decide how ambassadors

308
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,640
got paid in the current existing payment structure.

309
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,640
Okay.

310
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:57,700
Including how much they got paid for each function that they may do while an ambassador.

311
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:02,960
Some of that pay includes the work that they do answering support questions on discord,

312
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:10,480
or once upon a time, it used to include a very small amount of money for like tweeting

313
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:19,160
about the sandbox game, or it may include creating assets, art designs for the sandbox

314
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,440
game, many other factors.

315
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:28,280
And they all had their own different individual values, which were meant to respect the time

316
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,920
of the ambassador.

317
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:37,680
An ambassador was chosen, not through an interview process, but by way of their efforts that

318
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,040
they had put in to the community already.

319
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,040
Right.

320
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,140
So everybody who had become an ambassador was someone who was already just passionate

321
00:22:48,140 --> 00:22:54,640
about the sandbox game in the chat or doing something that kept people engaged and educated

322
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,800
in what we were doing and where we were going.

323
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,800
Right.

324
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,360
And some of those folks have been here for years.

325
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:11,960
So to the extent that the ambassadors will remain the case, right.

326
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,560
You wrote that underline remain the case that they are managed by the community management

327
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:17,560
team.

328
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:25,840
It is mostly less so managed and more so informed.

329
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:35,480
So, let's say everyone who is in the ambassadorship currently is under a not disclosure agreement

330
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,400
as well.

331
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:46,080
For the extent that they will receive announcements for hours, maybe a day, whatever before they're

332
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,680
going to go live to the community.

333
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,000
And then they can help be educated and inform the community better.

334
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,760
Be support for people.

335
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:04,360
And as ambassadors, we are not, I'm still currently an ambassador, we are not expected

336
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:12,120
to necessarily be having rainbows come out of our bums about the sandbox game.

337
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:17,640
You can be real a little bit, but you also always have to be respectful of the people,

338
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,560
the platform, you know, all of that sort of stuff.

339
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,000
The staff, the community.

340
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:33,120
So you know, when people were outright telling me that I needed to die, and I'm not kidding,

341
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:38,120
they would be banned and then come back and it's the whole thing.

342
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:39,120
Right.

343
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,320
They make it a big deal.

344
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,440
And so sometimes people, you know, obviously there have been certain rules that have been

345
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,440
set and whatever.

346
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,760
Anyway, the the Dow won't be the active managers of the ambassador program because the Dow

347
00:24:53,760 --> 00:25:02,440
is sort of going to be subcontracting the ambassadorship to that.

348
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:08,760
It's interesting though that you mentioned, right, that these two things aren't the same

349
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:14,720
because on the one hand, the entire Dow has been funded by the sandbox game.

350
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,720
Sure.

351
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:16,720
Sure.

352
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:25,600
It is its own established legal entity, however, and if that Dow is hiring the ambassadors

353
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,760
contractually and it'd be interesting to see what the paperwork is like, then that will

354
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:37,440
be the thing that tells you ipso facto, they definitely are or are not hired by the sandbox

355
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,580
or they are hired by the Dow.

356
00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:50,240
So at the moment, ambassadors have a sort of a handshake agreement.

357
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,960
Basically like I don't know an ambassador that's contract hasn't sort of expired and

358
00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,320
done exactly what they're talking about here, where it's month to month in this in this

359
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,760
proposal.

360
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,240
However, in the new proposal, I also don't know an ambassador, at least a passionate

361
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,560
one that isn't taking a significant pay decrease by this, right?

362
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:23,040
Like ambassadors aren't expected for this to be their job, but they're paid for their

363
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,200
time if that makes sense.

364
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,200
Yeah, that makes sense.

365
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,120
And so a lot of the ambassadors, a lot of the direction of the sandbox game is to be

366
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,200
centered English first focus.

367
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,640
Like you must, everyone must speak it as their second language at least.

368
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,520
And some ambassadors managed specific countries chat channels because they're the only one

369
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,440
that speaks Italian or whatever it is.

370
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:56,680
But the difference is pretty dramatic in terms of what they may potentially be paid.

371
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,560
If an ambassador is putting in, you know, 40 hours a week, that sort of thing, is they

372
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,720
can reach a maximum cap of pay.

373
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,760
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say exactly what that is.

374
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,540
It's not that much.

375
00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:14,760
It's certainly not enough where I could quit working, you know what I mean?

376
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,240
Like it's just a thank you that goes out there.

377
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,840
However, 400,000 sand.

378
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:29,320
That's for the rest of this year, assuming it started September 1st, which it didn't

379
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,040
for the rest of this year wouldn't have been enough to reach what they were doing for those

380
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,560
hardcore dedicated ambassador.

381
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:44,120
And the other half of the way that it's written all of 2025 is another 400k.

382
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:50,600
So then it gets cut another it cuts down to a quarter of what was already a cut down.

383
00:27:50,600 --> 00:28:02,280
So I think what will probably happen if and it sort of has already I'm allowed to say

384
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:08,200
I'm not going to specify who, why, where some of you may know is that some of the ambassadors

385
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:18,380
that we already know may stop doing it because they just, you know, what's the income versus

386
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:27,320
the level of harassment that you take as a community facing ambassador who's handling

387
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,400
all of the trouble.

388
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,520
I'll put it that way.

389
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:38,600
If you like when I way back in the day when we did the walking dead land sale and it broke

390
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:44,240
and they had like 1200 people in the chat and since this has been deleted off the VOD

391
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,640
on YouTube, so you can't really find it.

392
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,960
I had like 1200 people in the chat just literally going it's broken.

393
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Why is it broken?

394
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,200
I'm trying to buy this now.

395
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,680
I want this land and they were hype and it was a stressful day, you know, and when you

396
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:09,520
get those moments where the sandbox company, not the Dow, are frustrated or frustrating

397
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,720
the community rather with a decision that they may make and this happens, whatever,

398
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,080
you know, you talk about it, you work through it and you move on.

399
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,560
We fix the problem, right?

400
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,080
That's what the community management should do.

401
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:29,240
But if I'm doing that for $2 an hour, I'm out.

402
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,240
You know what I mean?

403
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,760
I can go get yelled at by somebody.

404
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,760
Exactly.

405
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,200
Like it's just not worth getting, it's not worth the stress on my life.

406
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:47,440
Now say the same thing to somebody who works in Argentina, in the Philippines, you know

407
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,440
what I mean?

408
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Where that dollar goes a lot further.

409
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,520
Maybe it is.

410
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,940
Maybe it's worth it to them.

411
00:29:53,940 --> 00:30:03,840
And so the turnaround is there.

412
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:13,520
But the Dow funding this is interesting to me because it's really just the sandbox dipping

413
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,720
into the money that it just gave to the Dow when the sandbox could be and already does

414
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,160
and could continue to fund it.

415
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,480
So the.

416
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,340
And maybe there's a reason for that.

417
00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:32,520
If we don't think about just today.

418
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,720
If we think about how this translates to December 25, I assume that's going to be the end of

419
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,640
the roadmap for the sandbox.

420
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,320
Maybe it's been stretched by additional funding.

421
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,320
If it's December of 2025.

422
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,320
I don't think I understand that.

423
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,320
Say that again.

424
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,320
About 2025.

425
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,320
OK, so.

426
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,760
Roughly, this is my estimation.

427
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,320
I know I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but the original white paper came

428
00:30:54,320 --> 00:31:01,460
out in August of 2020 and it had a five year roadmap.

429
00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:05,440
So the five year roadmap was supposed to have all of these features will be done within five

430
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:12,240
years and it is sufficiently decentralized in the hands of the community.

431
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,360
All the lands, all the sands, you know.

432
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:23,960
To this point, you can see on the map at sandbox.game that not all the lands have been sold.

433
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
But there is a whole bunch of it that has been sold.

434
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,400
So do they keep up with that schedule?

435
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Do they sell out all those lands before the end of 2025?

436
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,160
If they do, then you'd be more decentralized and more prepared for this Dow because landowners

437
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,520
have a really strong voting percentage.

438
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:46,960
You would probably have more engaged people who can help keep the Dow, you know, turning.

439
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,620
And then the question is, at that point, when you talk about decentralization, if they do

440
00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:56,800
exactly what they said they were going to do, then they turn the keys over to the Dow

441
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,960
operationally, and the people start making decisions with where the roadmap goes.

442
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,960
Right?

443
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,160
Does that happen?

444
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,060
That's the transition that we're in and probably the confusion that's happening right now with

445
00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:12,060
things like that.

446
00:32:12,060 --> 00:32:16,880
So the ambassadors at that point would be something that could be a SIP, where you would

447
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,080
say, I propose that we reelect ambassadors.

448
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,600
And maybe your SIP says we fire everybody.

449
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,680
Maybe your SIP says we keep these 10 people because we like those ambassadors.

450
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Maybe your SIP says we just add 10 more ambassadors.

451
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:40,960
And you know, the community would potentially be in control of it if the Dow is funding

452
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,120
the ambassadorship, potentially.

453
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,640
But you'd have to pitch a SIP and get it up there for people to be there.

454
00:32:50,640 --> 00:33:02,040
And eventually, if the sandbox isn't funding the community management, then the ambassadors

455
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,440
would be the community manager because it gets sufficiently decentralized.

456
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,120
It becomes fully autonomous as a company.

457
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,720
How can I count on that being a positive thing for the Dow?

458
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:21,760
I'm just going to be total devil's advocate because I need to figure out where the contrast

459
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:22,760
is here.

460
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,360
So I have to take the extreme position to figure it out.

461
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,960
How can that be beneficial to the Dow if they don't answer to the Dow?

462
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,080
Right.

463
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,600
So when you say answer to the Dow, who do you think that means?

464
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:38,600
I am.

465
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,640
OK, that's a great question.

466
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,800
We haven't gotten to this point yet, but we're going to.

467
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,280
So I'm thinking an elected council.

468
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,040
So the special council would ideally be that right now.

469
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,160
They were elected, but they were they were elected as part of the Dow was.

470
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,920
So when the reelections occur and then the community managers start taking those roles

471
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:06,640
on, I imagine them and the advisory board would be who they'd answer to, but only elected

472
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,000
by the Dow community.

473
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:16,360
So San Fam itself, but not by, say, the president or the secretary of the sandbox game company

474
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,240
filtered down and delegated to the managerial levels.

475
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:21,240
Yeah.

476
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:22,240
Yeah.

477
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:31,440
So I think you're on point, sort of, but not retracing back to the original point of the

478
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,800
special council, because the special council is essentially key turners.

479
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:36,960
Right.

480
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,920
Like the SIPs come through, the community votes for the SIP.

481
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,720
And then these people say it's good, it's legal.

482
00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:45,720
Great.

483
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:48,040
You know what I mean?

484
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,040
Go.

485
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,640
According to the original proposal.

486
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Sure.

487
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,400
In that original proposal, we didn't have an understanding of that time that there may

488
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:03,160
be other middle stages.

489
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,400
But I think, again, this is part of where this conversation and where the direction

490
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:20,520
of the Dow has to be focused in that if they continue to see middle stages interfere with

491
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,640
SIP directions, then I think you're going to see continued lack of engagement.

492
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,760
And if there isn't engagement, then the people who are in charge of that middle process may

493
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:40,840
realize that their income that comes through the Dow, their personal wages and such, right,

494
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,680
may not continue.

495
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,580
Because if people aren't engaging with the Dow, then they're probably not going to be

496
00:35:48,580 --> 00:35:51,220
engaging with the sandbox platform.

497
00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:55,440
And if they're not engaged with the platform, the platform can't pay the Dow, if that makes

498
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,440
sense.

499
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,440
Yep.

500
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,600
There's financial incentive for clarity to come.

501
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,680
Right.

502
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:11,480
And for community to be able to propose, reject, pass, you know, whatever they're going to

503
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,480
do, but allow the process to go through naturally.

504
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:25,520
And when it comes to the ambassadors, I think to a certain point, I think Cyril is correct

505
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:33,160
to say that there's no such thing as reporting to the Dow's community.

506
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:40,760
Because it's interesting because the sandbox, forgive me because I'm literally not on it.

507
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,800
Is there a discord for the sandbox Dow?

508
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,160
No, there's just the Dow forums.

509
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,160
Right.

510
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:54,000
So with the Dow forums themselves, the only place where people can go to talk is the Dow

511
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,600
forum.

512
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,840
There is a Dow discussion channel inside the sandbox.

513
00:36:58,840 --> 00:36:59,840
Right.

514
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,160
Often, they go there.

515
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,800
And they were just in general chat, which is why it got created.

516
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:14,200
And so over time, what could possibly happen is as the sandbox is getting sufficiently

517
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,840
decentralized.

518
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:23,280
And by that, I mean, there's less free fake internet money to go around.

519
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,080
That's a joke, by the way, chat.

520
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Like I have sand, you sand, love sand.

521
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,040
We all have.

522
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,200
You know what I mean?

523
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,160
But I call it fake internet money because that's how I get people who aren't in the

524
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,480
crypto space to understand what that means.

525
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,480
Right.

526
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,480
How do we use it?

527
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,880
How is it, you know, is it tangible?

528
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,840
No, but it's real.

529
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,280
As real as going to your bank and using your debit card.

530
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,280
Anyway.

531
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:56,360
As that new inflationary monetary supply runs out.

532
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Right.

533
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,280
The new sand that's coming into the ecosystem as part of the plan from the white paper,

534
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:09,720
as it starts to run out, unless there are other income channels, you know, that five

535
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:16,680
percent I've mentioned it before in trade, then really you just have to decide operationally

536
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:22,200
from that centralized side who gets to keep their job.

537
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,800
What's important?

538
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:32,100
And eventually, if there is not a sustainable flow of centralized money, the people who

539
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:38,000
get to keep their job are going to be almost nobody.

540
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:44,280
You know, the tech side on the back end that keeps the servers running and a few operations

541
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:51,240
people that keep events running will probably be the core and most important thing.

542
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:58,160
So off peak of nearly 400 employees at the top of last cycle when it was like eight bucks

543
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,800
per sand, you know.

544
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,880
Obviously operationally, things are going to change now.

545
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,080
But eventually, regardless of what the price of sand was.

546
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,120
They were going to have to decentralize because they just couldn't afford to be centralized

547
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:21,360
anymore unless the flow of trade stays really strong in the marketplace for a really long

548
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,880
time.

549
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,120
And so if you want things to be the way that they've been continuing to develop the way

550
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,980
that they go.

551
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:38,620
That is us as a community in the dower, otherwise, accepting that they know what they're doing.

552
00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:46,600
They have been doing it right, you know, some people will say they may have been doing it

553
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:53,200
slowly, but it's irrefutable to say that this is the furthest along that anything that puts

554
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:59,320
itself in the metaverse group is there's no other platform that can do what the sandbox

555
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:00,320
does.

556
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,960
Anyway, so it sounds like it's a it's a risk mitigation strategy.

557
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:11,160
Yeah, but that's always what it that's that's always what the plan was.

558
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,160
Right.

559
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,240
It was give us five years to build this platform for you.

560
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:22,760
And then it becomes open source, which is another way of saying decentralized and fully

561
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,480
decentralized economy.

562
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,560
So this was the plan from day one.

563
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:36,240
And the question is, or was how much do people and people's greed potentially interfere with

564
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,240
that plan?

565
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:44,000
Do you allow it to continue beyond year five?

566
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,800
And I think the community widely, I can see if you're going from the decentralized principle,

567
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,480
do we vote in the Dow?

568
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,640
Do we say Seb has done a good job?

569
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,320
I think the community at large would say yes.

570
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,840
You know, I think so, too.

571
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,040
Do we say that certain individuals have done a good job?

572
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,880
I think, you know, community may point to certain people and say, you've done a bad

573
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,480
job.

574
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:16,480
And the difference between a centralized company and a decentralized company is it truly is

575
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:24,440
about the voting power, the shares that you have having voting power, then potentially

576
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,040
a sip could come through in a truly purely decentralized economy.

577
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,440
A sip could come through that says fire Joe.

578
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,440
He's trash.

579
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,760
You know, and don't even have a plan.

580
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,160
Just hire anybody else.

581
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,340
And because the community would have full disclosure, full understanding.

582
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:49,760
And I think that's that's sort of where the mess is happening in the discussion that we're

583
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:55,200
having here between the case study A, B and C is that the community doesn't know the names

584
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,120
or the jobs of most of the people that make sandbox work.

585
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,880
Most are unknowns.

586
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,760
And the community doesn't know the roadmap of any one department.

587
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,680
So it doesn't know what to propose and sips.

588
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,660
It doesn't know what to expect in upcoming releases.

589
00:42:10,660 --> 00:42:13,760
It doesn't know what good or should hit the cutting room floor.

590
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,360
And the community can't give feedback to say, I didn't even want that.

591
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:23,320
You know, and so, yeah, there's.

592
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:30,480
In a fully, truly decentralized ecosystem, in an open source building environment, people

593
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,400
would say together, we need to work on this and we are going to fund it.

594
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,240
Who can do this?

595
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,600
And then you, Lancer would say, I know how to code that.

596
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,740
Let's go.

597
00:42:40,740 --> 00:42:43,600
You know, and somebody would say, great, I trust you.

598
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,440
You're hired for this one job.

599
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,480
And that sand would go to you.

600
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:57,760
That's just not going to be the case until at least the end of December 25 when the original

601
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,880
roadmap ends.

602
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,560
And you know, their funding has been extended by other sources and stuff like that.

603
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,960
So maybe it's longer than that.

604
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:12,000
Now all of that said, I've been here a long time.

605
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,960
I've seen how it works.

606
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,400
I've seen how some of the delays are there.

607
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,360
I've seen how some of these delays are taxing and may cause developers to go, you know what?

608
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,360
I won't.

609
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,240
I won't wait for that anymore.

610
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:30,120
But I've also seen how as it's happening in real time now, yeah, as it is happening in

611
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,120
real time now.

612
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,120
Yes.

613
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:43,120
And I've also seen at the same time the shift to doing well and staying relevant globally.

614
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:51,920
You know, Korea, China, Turkey coming to mind as great examples of emerging economies that

615
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,320
or already strong economies.

616
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,720
China is already bigger than the US now.

617
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:00,680
But you know, being able to go into these places and get new people impassioned about

618
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,160
the sandbox game.

619
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:10,040
And you know, we're going to touch on some stuff later as to why that matters.

620
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,960
So anyway.

621
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:17,920
So what I'm hearing is that in the relaunch of the Ambassador program with the Dow, where

622
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:26,000
I am saying that the statements the Dow community won't have a say in how the Ambassador program

623
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,000
is managed.

624
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,840
One, two, sandboxed out community and the sandbox game community are the same thing.

625
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,360
Three, the Dow should pay for the Ambassador program because the Dow's vision and Ambassador

626
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,520
program are aligned.

627
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,000
Four, Ambassador program is part of the sandbox games operating expenses.

628
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,720
Five, sandbox game company and the sandbox foundation are two separate entities.

629
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:56,400
With those being at play here, what I'm hearing you say is that the Dow paying for the Ambassador

630
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:05,000
program is a risk mitigation strategy and a broad fulfillment of its original intent

631
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:14,880
to decentralize the economy and the operations so that should they become insolvent or have

632
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:28,480
difficulty in staying above its operating expenses, as you mentioned before, that they

633
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,880
can separate out the Ambassadors from who's going to keep their job, who's not and all

634
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,560
that sort of stuff.

635
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,080
That's one.

636
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:48,240
Another one would be that the introduction of the sandboxed out team and the expansion

637
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:56,880
of roles there needs more clarity because that wasn't anticipated, at least in the white

638
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:04,200
paper days, but at the very least has introduced new, not complications, but it introduced

639
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:13,400
a new interactive, something we have to acknowledge because it's, it's in some cases delayed things,

640
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,280
in some cases it's added confusion.

641
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,920
In other cases it has, I'm saying this really badly, but I don't know how else to word it

642
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,400
right now.

643
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:32,040
It was unanticipated for it taking energy, time and effort in the process of SIP introduction

644
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,040
to SIP voting and implementation.

645
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,040
Yeah.

646
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:43,200
Well, I think that, I mean, the issue is again, that we're in this middle ground between centralization

647
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,480
and decentralization, right?

648
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:51,360
And Chad's saying it too, like that at the moment it's centralized and not decentralized,

649
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:52,480
right?

650
00:46:52,480 --> 00:47:02,280
So unfortunately what is happening is that there is an operations layer between SIP and

651
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,280
sandbox.

652
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:11,400
And that would probably be fine if the sandbox was fully disclosing in what it's currently

653
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,400
working on.

654
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,400
Yeah.

655
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,400
Okay.

656
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,400
Pause.

657
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:16,400
You know, yeah.

658
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,800
I need to encapsulate that because I think that's, that's a lot closer now to where my

659
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,160
uneasiness is.

660
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,160
All right.

661
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,440
So I wrote down part of it.

662
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,760
We're in the middle of this ground.

663
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:31,720
We're in the middle ground between centralization and decentralization.

664
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,000
There is an operations layer between SIP and sandbox.

665
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,400
That wouldn't be a problem.

666
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,400
I agree.

667
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:43,200
If, now finish the rest of that sentence, please.

668
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,200
Okay.

669
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:57,240
So the sandbox corporation was fully disclosing of its main three roadmap layers.

670
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,480
VoxEdit, GameMaker and Operation.

671
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,800
We'll see.

672
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,200
The client?

673
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,360
Not the client.

674
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,360
The client gets the same updates that GameMaker gets.

675
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,600
It's basically just a feature set renderer.

676
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,800
So for yes, but it's what it is.

677
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,960
Like they get those updates, but it's more like now show us that without loading all

678
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,960
this nonsense.

679
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:25,960
Oh, okay.

680
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,960
So what was the third roadmap layer?

681
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,520
The operations layer is operations company, like operations, right?

682
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:44,120
Because in a fully decentralized system, we would know what features we need for VoxEdit

683
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,960
as you've proposed, right?

684
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,360
The ability to resize windows.

685
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,460
We would know where that is on the timeline all the time.

686
00:48:53,460 --> 00:48:59,840
And so no one would ever have to request a SIP for it because we would already know it

687
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,760
exists and it may not even be a thing that has a date.

688
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,300
It may just be a thing where they say, we know it's a problem, right?

689
00:49:09,300 --> 00:49:15,480
If the community knew, then they could propose a SIP to readjust priorities or they could

690
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:22,760
propose a SIP to, you know, say add a date to this, or they could propose a SIP that

691
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,520
says, we don't need that feature.

692
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:26,520
You know what I mean?

693
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:32,880
And we could save the sandbox time and money by prioritizing that as a group.

694
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,400
Because one of the conflicts that we run into when you have a centralized system is that

695
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:44,440
one or two guys or gals has a great idea or so they think.

696
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:51,000
And they start telling people, we're going to have this great idea.

697
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,080
And the work is already being done.

698
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,680
And the community is like, who gives a damn?

699
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:56,960
You know what I mean?

700
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:06,320
Like I mean, there is a certain feature set reason why having the ability to embed video

701
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,100
in your metaverse was a cool idea.

702
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:15,040
But if this is a games platform, embedded video doesn't matter.

703
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:21,120
If this is a platform where people can host a concert, embedded video matters.

704
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:29,800
How many developers do you know are hosting concerts right now?

705
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:30,800
Real answer.

706
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:31,800
None.

707
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,200
Like five in-house.

708
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,240
You know what I mean?

709
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:43,560
Like, if you look at the map, you've got Edmouse, you've got Snoop Dogg, you've got whatever.

710
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:44,560
Aoki.

711
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:45,560
Right?

712
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:51,800
There's a handful of people who care about this video format versus most people who wanted

713
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,480
to see ranged attacks implemented.

714
00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:01,520
And ranged attacks took two years longer because we had to have the thing they sold to Snoop

715
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,080
Dogg and Aoki and whoever for video embeds.

716
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,240
You know?

717
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:12,480
I did see a good use for it last night when I saw the sandbox tutorial that just launched.

718
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:18,880
Part of the billboards was WSAD.

719
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,240
It showed an animation of hitting WSAD, an animation of climbing.

720
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:28,440
So it was extremely easy for a new player to see what it was I needed to do to interact

721
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:33,280
with this game because of that animation video that was embedded.

722
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,480
So yeah, that's a great implementation.

723
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,560
There's definitely some value to it.

724
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:39,880
Some value, yeah.

725
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,520
I think that's the difference between what a decentralized decision making process would

726
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,760
be versus a centralized decision making process would be.

727
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,240
Because if you had asked devs widely, what do you need more?

728
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:55,600
Do you need it to be able to, like you said, make WSAD blink?

729
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,080
Or can you just have an NFT frame?

730
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,080
Do you need that?

731
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,880
You know, the pop up that exists in most of the games right now, literally in your face,

732
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,720
it goes press W to walk forward, you know, and you're like, damn, I have to acknowledge

733
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:09,720
this.

734
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:10,720
Right.

735
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:11,800
That's efficient.

736
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,880
The cool thing, of course, is to make the video graphics happen and whatever.

737
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:16,880
I get it.

738
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:17,880
Opportunity cost.

739
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,880
Yeah.

740
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,880
So it's one of those questions of like, if you think about their budget, is that best

741
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,640
handled in the way that they did it by prioritizing it that way?

742
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:34,440
Or is the budget better handled doing other things?

743
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:35,440
And whatever.

744
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:36,440
It is what it is.

745
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,600
So again, decentralization and centralization, we got to find that space now.

746
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,360
And we're in that timeline where we're finding the space between those two things, where

747
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:52,360
things are going to have to fiscally decentralize.

748
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:57,280
Otherwise it's not going to work out in the long run.

749
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:58,760
Right.

750
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:03,880
And the same thing is true with the game maker operationally.

751
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,040
And it's not, and again, this is not to create a panic or do any of that.

752
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,720
They've still got literally millions and millions and millions of dollars to manage the company

753
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:14,200
and do all these things and build this infrastructure.

754
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,320
And they've got still the marketplace.

755
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,920
So in terms of the way things have been going, can they continue to go that way?

756
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,400
Yes.

757
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:28,640
But in terms of the way that this was written out in the white paper, how is it supposed

758
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:29,640
to go?

759
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,360
You know, there's that.

760
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:45,200
So like I'm perfectly comfortable, in my opinion, with the way that operations have been.

761
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,760
For the most part, some of the things I would have done differently, of course, but whatever,

762
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:57,360
you know, what is built now, as I mentioned before, is bigger and better than any of the

763
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:04,400
other metaverses that are out there in terms of a feature set, in terms of, you know, the

764
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:10,200
ways that the community can be worked with.

765
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,580
You know, I think it's I think they've done a really good job so far.

766
00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:18,280
So it's just a question of how does this go now that there is a gap?

767
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,000
Something I, one of my second SIP ever was a roadmap of the releases.

768
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,960
So VoxEdit, GameMaker.

769
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,800
Right now is, I think it's pretty much dead.

770
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:36,000
When I sent it up, their feedback, Dallas team feedback, was that product team already

771
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,400
intends to release a roadmap.

772
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,360
And I haven't heard anything since, but it's been, I think, a couple months since they

773
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,320
gave me that feedback.

774
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,200
And they intended to do that sometime in the future.

775
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:54,400
So I wanted that early on, because I was in the same boat as most other studios, which

776
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,320
is what am I developing to?

777
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,320
And yeah.

778
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,520
And I think the last time there was a roadmap, I'll put that in quotes, that got released

779
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:09,080
was maybe June of 23.

780
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:17,880
There was some sort of long tweet thread that was put out, you know, and, you know, someone

781
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,360
better researched and figure out exactly what the date is, whatever.

782
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:27,160
But the, I was just trying to remember it off the top of my head.

783
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,720
But yeah, it was, you know, it talked about all the normal things.

784
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:35,760
Like what is, I think it was like staking.

785
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,960
Based on what land you had, that had finally launched or something.

786
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,800
And like, you were supposed to be able to start to generate catalysts with your land,

787
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,560
which I don't believe exists now.

788
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:54,560
Still, even though that was the original plan in the white paper, like staking sand in your

789
00:55:54,560 --> 00:56:00,040
land to generate gems and catalysts.

790
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,040
Something like that.

791
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,360
Anyway, nonetheless, you're right.

792
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:05,360
I think you're right.

793
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,040
I think that SIP should have passed.

794
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,860
I don't think, I think if it's, that's probably the interesting bit.

795
00:56:10,860 --> 00:56:15,080
If I'm comparing operations, what I'd like to see change versus what currently is.

796
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:20,300
If there is a SIP that you proposed and they say, we're not going to pass that because

797
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:22,920
it's already in the works.

798
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:23,920
Like why?

799
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:24,920
You know what I mean?

800
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Just pass it for God's sake.

801
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,000
That's an auto pass.

802
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,000
You know what I mean?

803
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,520
Make Lancer feel good.

804
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,200
Make Lancer feel good.

805
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,200
Lancer had a great idea.

806
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,980
You don't even have to tell Lancer that they already were doing this.

807
00:56:39,980 --> 00:56:45,040
Just freaking release it and make everyone happy all the way down.

808
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,040
That's good PR.

809
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,040
You know what I mean?

810
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,480
That was my feedback to them.

811
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:53,760
And their response was we want to be judicious in what we spend our time and effort on and

812
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:54,760
our resources on.

813
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:55,760
Yeah, you are.

814
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,280
You're already spending time and effort on it.

815
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,280
I don't know.

816
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:04,240
I probably spent what 10 or 11 hours on this SIP to create the visuals of, all right, if

817
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:09,000
it looks like this, then it will be useful to me as a studio and all this sort of stuff.

818
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,480
I spent a lot of time and effort.

819
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,720
Oh my God.

820
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,520
That exists a thousand times.

821
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,760
Really what you were showing exists a thousand times.

822
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:17,760
I promise you.

823
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,960
I swear to God in PowerPoints, in Excel, they're spread all over the sandbox internally all

824
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,400
the time.

825
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,880
People waste hours of their day, every day creating a roadmap for something that never

826
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,600
gets released all the time.

827
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,420
And that's normal business.

828
00:57:33,420 --> 00:57:38,600
So there's no reason why somebody should have shut down a SIP that said, show me a roadmap

829
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,560
if the roadmaps are already being worked on.

830
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,000
If they already exist, don't say no.

831
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,000
Say yes.

832
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,520
Let the community have what they want.

833
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:47,520
It's not that hard.

834
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:53,520
I'm pretty much, I think that they sent it back to the product team and the product team

835
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,520
is trying to release it or I don't really know where it is, but it's definitely not

836
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,960
moving forward to the special counsel.

837
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:06,040
It's stuck in purgatory and I think it's archived now at this point.

838
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:07,040
And sure.

839
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,080
Was there a budget on your proposal number two here?

840
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,160
Did you put money?

841
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:16,160
So I gave a full SIP.

842
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,600
I gave a choice to the community.

843
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,000
Either you can pay Lancer's Matterworlds team, who we have professional product management

844
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,240
and program management experience and scheduling.

845
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:30,400
I will develop the baseline, hand it to the product team with the link and they can just

846
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,360
update it.

847
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,280
And someone showed me this the other day, Trello.

848
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:42,680
So Fortnite has a public Kanban system of shipped, scheduled, queueing, all that stuff.

849
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,880
It's already exist as well.

850
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,880
Beautiful.

851
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,400
This thing is beautiful.

852
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:48,920
I would even make this.

853
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:56,440
So I said I will build it for a small fee or the product team can build it and here's

854
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,640
the stuff that how I would build it.

855
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:00,840
And I gave them the choice.

856
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,440
Does the community want me to build it for the product team?

857
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,040
Does the product team want to build it?

858
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,040
But they didn't.

859
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:17,320
But this is the operationally centralized versus decentralized.

860
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:24,120
The centralized system has a lot of releases coming and it's all under NDA.

861
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,200
So you can say release one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

862
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,780
You can't say what they are.

863
00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:35,160
The centralized system runs into literally any problem, right?

864
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,920
So let's say that they want to update the game client or something in preparation for

865
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,920
an upcoming event because as I mentioned, maybe it's a Snoop Dogg thing.

866
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:44,920
Maybe it's a Steve Aoki thing.

867
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:45,920
I don't know.

868
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,600
Maybe it's Gordon Ramsay's Hell's Kitchen and they need some special update to the game

869
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,840
client from something that someone promised them.

870
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,440
So you have to update the client.

871
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,720
The client has to then be tested.

872
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,440
If the client breaks something old.

873
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:04,560
Because the new thing was put in and then that pushes that roadmap down the line a little

874
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,120
bit.

875
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:11,120
And it's something that every company sort of runs into and most people never have to

876
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,440
see.

877
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:20,040
And it's the sort of the issue with decentralization and the way that funding or the way that token

878
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,160
price is really managed.

879
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:32,680
Like for the most part, 100% fully disclosing company, I genuinely believe would their token

880
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:33,680
would just crash.

881
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,920
I'm not talking about the same vaccine.

882
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:36,920
Pick a company.

883
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:44,160
It doesn't matter because any hiccup will have the wolves out for you.

884
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:45,160
Any issue.

885
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,760
So I think the roadmap as you've shown it, right?

886
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:54,840
If they came out and said this is our roadmap and they don't have these like really ridiculously

887
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,480
far off options and always release it early.

888
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,180
I think people would consider that a failure.

889
01:01:01,180 --> 01:01:05,680
But as an operations guy, that's exactly what I would do.

890
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,960
I would say, sorry, this is not getting done until January.

891
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,080
Oops, I released it in November.

892
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,400
You know, make people happy about the fact that we're ahead of schedule and not behind

893
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:18,400
schedule.

894
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,720
Even though we prepared to be behind schedule and we'd have internal targets that were closer

895
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,920
and under promise and over deliver.

896
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:25,920
Yep.

897
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,400
That's that's how you do it in any business.

898
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,920
But so, you know, I think I get, I get where you're going with the we're in the middle

899
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:39,200
of centralization, decentralization and the operation layer, something that wouldn't normally

900
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:40,200
be a problem.

901
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:41,200
I agree.

902
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:46,920
One, the only part I differ with from you on is one, if the operations team was bigger

903
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:53,800
than it is and can facilitate the quantity being thrust at them.

904
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:58,520
Mine's taking multiple months and some of them have been waiting for months to respond

905
01:01:58,520 --> 01:01:59,520
back to.

906
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,040
And that's because they have a very, very small team reviewing SIPs.

907
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,080
So that would be my only divergence.

908
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:10,000
But the other divergence would be fully disclosing of the company's operations to the extent

909
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:15,080
that a studio can participate and plan properly.

910
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,600
And so then I know what SIP to propose because I see this thing's coming or that thing's

911
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,120
coming.

912
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,920
Which is kind of what I did with SIP one, two and three.

913
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,280
One was one was the window resizing resolution.

914
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,360
Two was give us a roadmap leave.

915
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:32,360
These are the releases.

916
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,240
So three was the end game inventory filter.

917
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,240
Like for gosh sart, I have like 50 NFTs.

918
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,600
Half of them are swords.

919
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:47,360
Can you please give me a filter where I can just choose power and something above 75 that

920
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,160
would like I'm not sitting there scrolling all the way down trying to find that random

921
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,200
like come on, come on.

922
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:56,200
Yeah.

923
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:00,160
Anyways, thus was SIP.

924
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,360
Sip this into existence, please.

925
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:09,120
And so that brings me to the next thing that I'm still unsure about when it comes to this

926
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:14,520
SIP is the ambassador program is part of the sandboxes operations.

927
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,560
Like it's part of its operating expense.

928
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,560
I don't see how it could.

929
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:29,640
Yeah, I mean, it is, but it's not because ambassadors can be paid zero dollars.

930
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,400
Ambassadors voluntary.

931
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:37,000
They are chosen and then they volunteered to do any of the possible things that they

932
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:42,640
want to do that could possibly pay them or they could just not care.

933
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:49,720
You know, in the history of the sandbox, only I think one ambassador has ever had their

934
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:56,920
role revoked because they're not expected to clock in clock out, go to work.

935
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:57,920
That's fair.

936
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,280
People who were already doing.

937
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,480
I think I heard all my friends say of the 25 there are only five or active in the game

938
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:04,480
time.

939
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:05,480
Got it.

940
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:06,480
Got it.

941
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:12,920
So you're talking about as an expenditure that would belong within the sandbox games

942
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,600
operating expenses.

943
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:15,840
Yep.

944
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,360
And has and has right.

945
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:29,080
Why then leverage that or transfer that expense to a separate legal entity and then retain

946
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,000
the ownership of that program?

947
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:38,160
We're getting for the fact for a second that the sandbox now owes its life to the sandbox

948
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,320
in terms of financial support and all that.

949
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:45,080
I'm going to eliminate that from the conversation because if all things being equal, separate

950
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,840
legal entity, that's undisputed.

951
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:56,800
Why then offload that responsibility to the Dow and take away the fact that the mitigating

952
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:57,800
risk thing.

953
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:58,800
Okay, understood that.

954
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:06,680
That does make some sense, but as a matter of academic correctness, maybe.

955
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:11,240
I looked at the vision when Amit said it's part of the vision and I looked at the answer

956
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,560
it with some I'll answer it with some known unknown.

957
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:16,560
I mean, maybe it's known.

958
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:17,560
Hey, Hottle.

959
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:18,560
I know it.

960
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:19,560
Go ahead.

961
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:20,560
What's up, Foddle Hill?

962
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:21,560
How you doing?

963
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:26,360
I'm as I mentioned, I was the lead ambassador.

964
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:27,720
Yeah.

965
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,600
I believe that there will be another.

966
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,880
There isn't currently one now.

967
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:45,680
So I think that again with the the information pipeline still must go centralized to decentralized.

968
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:51,640
But I think the idea of the lead ambassador role is to take on the role currently held

969
01:05:51,640 --> 01:06:01,760
by a lovely lady named Amy in the sandbox right now, which is the lead community manager

970
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,760
is Amy.

971
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,640
But nonetheless, she you won't even find her on social media.

972
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:10,120
She doesn't use the social media is on purpose.

973
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,680
I don't think I've ever interacted with Amy before.

974
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:13,680
Probably not.

975
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:14,680
Probably not.

976
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:19,720
She's she's doing like every media article, all that sort of stuff all the time.

977
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:20,720
All kinds of stuff.

978
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Yeah.

979
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:28,840
But so the lead ambassador is probably going to get their information from the lead of

980
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,440
community management or marketing.

981
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:37,640
They may attend a sandbox marketing meeting having no input necessarily.

982
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:45,000
They just be there, get informed, disseminate that to the ambassadors.

983
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:55,440
So it's, you know, allowing that what is centralized infrastructure to have the decentralized community

984
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,200
engagement team.

985
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:07,720
And again, as I mentioned, I think over time, the moderation team that is sandbox staff

986
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:13,960
may change to be the most impassioned ambassador.

987
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:20,120
And with the problem being that the budget is being dramatically reduced, though the

988
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:27,080
impassioned ambassadors will probably change over time unless people really just already

989
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:28,500
love the platform.

990
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:30,360
Just different people.

991
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:38,000
You know, it just be like you've got these ambassadors that are out there now.

992
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,200
Right.

993
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:47,000
And I know I've seen it in the chat in the private channels that some of them are saying

994
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:51,760
already this won't be worth my time if this changes me.

995
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,880
Some have said it publicly, by the way.

996
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,360
They're the same people.

997
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,100
But okay, we talk about it.

998
01:08:00,100 --> 01:08:05,720
We talk about it internally because the ambassadors have a channel in this court.

999
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:06,720
It's just for the.

1000
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:13,240
And in that channel, if something is going wrong, generally speaking, the ambassadors

1001
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:14,860
have the beat on the street.

1002
01:08:14,860 --> 01:08:20,200
They go back in and go, hey, this is dumb and you need to fix this.

1003
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:26,000
And then the sandbox staff, generally speaking, looks at the ambassadors input first and will

1004
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:31,520
say the ambassadors are hearing this from the community and then they'll go dig into

1005
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,320
the community, pull some quotes and send it back in in a weekly report and say this is

1006
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,360
what's wrong right now.

1007
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:38,360
Fix it.

1008
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:43,160
And anyway, so if all the ambassadors are crying all at the same time about how this

1009
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:50,560
isn't going to work for them, then the question is, do we have other impassioned people all

1010
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:56,680
around the world who are still excited about the product and don't care about the money?

1011
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:02,700
Or can you get so many ambassadors that they don't have to work hard.

1012
01:09:02,700 --> 01:09:08,680
They just have to show up a little like, you know, care for 30 minutes in discord, care

1013
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:16,880
for 30 minutes on Twitter, something like that, where the community can still be acknowledged

1014
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:22,160
and addressed without needing that over time.

1015
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:29,280
Again, over time, as things get sufficiently decentralized.

1016
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,800
That will always have to be true.

1017
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:38,540
The ambassadors will always have to be just excited people and not people who have a financial

1018
01:09:38,540 --> 01:09:40,760
incentive to do it.

1019
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,520
Unless again, there's a whole bunch of volume of trade in the marketplace that can generate

1020
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:51,920
a whole bunch of money to the sandbox company so that they can fund the Dow better.

1021
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,920
If the sandbox company can fund the Dow better than the ambassadors can be funded better

1022
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:57,820
in this current system.

1023
01:09:57,820 --> 01:10:06,560
But because that percentage will always go to a centralized entity and not a decentralized

1024
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:13,800
entity, that percentage that then funds the Dow is always going to be having some centralized

1025
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:19,200
mechanism that we're all in a more idealistic setting.

1026
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,400
We're all voting for who's in charge of that money, who can be the treasurer, who can be

1027
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:24,400
the whatever.

1028
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:31,120
So let me see if I can actively listen to what I just heard.

1029
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:39,800
In addition to this being a risk mitigation technique, insulate the ambassadors from the

1030
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:46,120
potential complications with the fiscal future of the sandbox game.

1031
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:54,400
This also presents an opportunity to insulate the ambassadors from the centralized nature

1032
01:10:54,400 --> 01:11:01,360
of a company and its corporate hierarchy into this new decentralized model.

1033
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:06,920
Assuming the contract that they get, assuming that the contract that the ambassadors get

1034
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:08,840
comes from the Dow.

1035
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,640
It's not.

1036
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,720
All my friends answered that in the forum post.

1037
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,800
I want to see it on paper.

1038
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,400
I can show it to you right now.

1039
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:19,400
I got the link.

1040
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:20,400
You have the contract.

1041
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:21,400
That's what I'm saying.

1042
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:22,400
No, no, no, no.

1043
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:23,400
I have the answer from all my friends.

1044
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:24,600
That's the issue.

1045
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:32,200
If they're funded by the Dow, then the Dow's money has to be how they get their contract

1046
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,920
and the contract must be disseminated by the Dow.

1047
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,120
That's a good point.

1048
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,200
I don't know how that works.

1049
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,920
I would basically take everything you've been told in.

1050
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,480
And this is just the way that I think.

1051
01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:46,600
I take everything you've been told about it, crumble it up into a ball, throw that shit

1052
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:53,960
out because until you actually see a contract come down from the sandbox or from the Dow,

1053
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:58,200
we don't know where the money really comes from.

1054
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,440
So I do know there's a legal way to do it.

1055
01:12:00,440 --> 01:12:09,360
You would just accounts payable to you would just transfer the money back to the Dow either

1056
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:14,680
as a loan or as a fee for service payment.

1057
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:20,160
And then you'd subcontract, you mentioned earlier, subcontract out the ambassador program

1058
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:24,720
function to the sandbox game company.

1059
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:30,320
And then just, I mean, it's a weird kind of roundabout way, but it starts to establish

1060
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:36,760
a separate process for you sent the money to the Dow, a legal entity responsible for

1061
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:43,560
decentralized governance that decentralized governments then voted on the continuation

1062
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:48,520
of the ambassador program and allocated funds to it, which it then paid back to sandbox

1063
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:49,520
game.

1064
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:50,520
Right.

1065
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:51,520
Makes sense.

1066
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:52,520
And that's it.

1067
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:53,520
Right.

1068
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,920
Like nothing changes if that happens exactly as you describe it.

1069
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:58,640
Nothing at all changes is exactly the same.

1070
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:06,480
Now, just more ambassadors get added and the amount of money they get paid is less.

1071
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:09,160
But you know, nothing changes infrastructure really.

1072
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:10,160
Okay.

1073
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:11,160
I buy that.

1074
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,240
I buy that it, it introduces a new concept.

1075
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:20,880
And the reason why it doesn't make doesn't unsettle me anymore is because it introduced

1076
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,800
the paradigm of the Dow being the originator.

1077
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,080
I'll put it in quotes for now.

1078
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:35,040
We're still, you know, still all the tend the linkages.

1079
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:42,000
But it introduces the paradigm that the Dow has voted and authorized the expenditure.

1080
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,400
Yeah.

1081
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,320
That's the new thing that changed.

1082
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:46,320
That's it.

1083
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:47,320
Right.

1084
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:53,080
So let's assume like they're all of the contracts are written in month to month.

1085
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:59,640
It's possible under this infrastructure that somebody proposes a SIP that says no ambassadors.

1086
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,880
We don't need them.

1087
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:07,000
And then every ambassador instantly cut on.

1088
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:13,000
So it, despite the fact that the money originally came from the sandbox, despite the fact that

1089
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:20,640
the money goes back to the sandbox game and a centralized aspect, this is suggesting that

1090
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:27,660
the Dow and by extension, the people could say ambassadors are worthless.

1091
01:14:27,660 --> 01:14:29,280
So okay, you don't need that now.

1092
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:30,280
I see that now.

1093
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:33,280
Now that that checks.

1094
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:34,280
Cool.

1095
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:43,680
I think that satisfies my cognitive dissonance that I'm having that I did have on that ambassador

1096
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:44,680
program.

1097
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:51,440
The two the two things that really sell it is in mid transition, there is a disturbance

1098
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:59,560
between the operations layer that is exercised between the SIP and the voting that has to

1099
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:00,560
be resolved.

1100
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:10,280
And it's compounded by the fact that we don't have insight into the three roadmap layers.

1101
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:17,000
So those two things are creating a turbulence that that is causing almost a paralysis of

1102
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,280
participation.

1103
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:24,600
People are either unmotivated, they're disconcerted, there doesn't seem like there's any hope or

1104
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:31,080
why even bother at this point, and then that is that is channeling this fueling this need

1105
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:39,200
or temptation for the sandbox wallet to vote to satisfy basic quorum needs.

1106
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:40,200
Yeah.

1107
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:41,200
Cool.

1108
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:42,200
Check.

1109
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:50,120
Second thing is, why would the Dow even consider paying for the sandboxes operating expenses,

1110
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,840
ignoring the fact that the Dow's money came from the sandbox.

1111
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,880
I'm ignoring that is academically doesn't matter.

1112
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,160
But why would the Dow do that?

1113
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:04,000
That would do that because it creates the paradigm where the Dow is authorizing the

1114
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:09,200
expenditure and the voter is the reason why that authorization happened.

1115
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,880
Also ignoring the fact that at the sandbox not voted with its wallet, it wouldn't have

1116
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,880
met quorum and thus wouldn't have been wouldn't have proved just proved.

1117
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:24,520
However, a thought experiment exists there that right, right before this happened, it

1118
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,760
had a 60% yes vote.

1119
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,600
That's what I had recorded.

1120
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,920
So had it had quorum, it would have passed.

1121
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,440
So then you have this kind of academic debate.

1122
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:41,960
Is quorum a measure by which we judge participation and or authorization?

1123
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:49,560
Seb has previously said yes, because in his Mia bowed in his AMA with me about three weeks

1124
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:57,580
ago he said quorum is an important mechanism to to for the Dow to judge its motivation

1125
01:16:57,580 --> 01:16:59,440
and interest in a set.

1126
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:04,480
All right, those are I'm near paraphrasing his words there.

1127
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:08,160
So then the sandbox comes in and says, hey, this isn't going to get quorum.

1128
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:15,840
That important mechanism is playing, but because delegations haven't been introduced yet, maybe

1129
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:23,800
it's not quite so offensive that we introduce our vote because we're not really battling

1130
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:31,280
against the temptation of delegations to just completely.

1131
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:33,960
I don't know, overtake voting process.

1132
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,700
So all right, I can buy that.

1133
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:39,800
I can buy that kind of strongman argument.

1134
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,800
Yeah, but only for now.

1135
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:50,500
Yeah, when delegations are introduced, I think that that that that gets eviscerated in terms

1136
01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:55,200
of you just brought up a good point, too, that I that I think that is obviously it's

1137
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,080
a hot topic in the community.

1138
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:04,200
And that's the the sandbox using voting power at all.

1139
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:12,760
Because you know, what has been the messaging for the last all of the years?

1140
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:18,560
That they want to give the power to the people they want to listen to the people they want

1141
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:23,600
to sufficiently decentralize.

1142
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:31,440
And if I'm going to use wrestling as a term here, I don't know if you're familiar with

1143
01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:32,440
wrestling.

1144
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:36,240
I don't watch it, so it's pretty popular, though.

1145
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:43,880
In professional wrestling, it's great as a performer to get people to boo for you.

1146
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,840
It's great as a performer to get people to cheer for you.

1147
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:54,000
But if you don't make noise, if the crowd just doesn't care about you at all, that is

1148
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:55,440
an abject failure.

1149
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:56,440
Right.

1150
01:18:56,440 --> 01:19:06,560
And I think that's the interesting thing about this voting the ambassador program.

1151
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:12,780
If no one's voting, that means the community doesn't give a shit about them.

1152
01:19:12,780 --> 01:19:17,200
As an ambassador, I'm telling you, the community doesn't care about me.

1153
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:18,200
Some people do.

1154
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:19,200
I care about you.

1155
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:20,200
They see my face.

1156
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:21,200
Right.

1157
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:26,840
They're engaged people who are engaged with me, and those people care.

1158
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:32,240
But if the community is not voting for you to get paid as an ambassador, at least in

1159
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:41,400
this structure, then to force that on through is inappropriate.

1160
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,160
I think.

1161
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:47,160
Because you may not vote yes or no.

1162
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:53,920
And if you don't vote yes and you don't vote no and you don't abstain, then this measure

1163
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:59,080
doesn't need to continue because there's not enough people excited about it one way or

1164
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:00,080
another.

1165
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,920
There's not enough people excited about it to even be in the damn conversation to say

1166
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:06,760
abstain.

1167
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,600
So you don't need that.

1168
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:12,400
And I think that's something where the sandbox is learning.

1169
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,400
Or maybe they aren't.

1170
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:15,400
You know what I mean?

1171
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,560
They figured out as it continues.

1172
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:19,000
You saw one through three.

1173
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,520
They went, no, we're going to reverse those.

1174
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,000
They didn't reverse four and five, as I recall.

1175
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,160
It was because this snapshot only allows you to have three active at one point.

1176
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:29,760
It was a website problem.

1177
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:30,760
That's what they say.

1178
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,960
But they could choose to just ignore the snapshot.

1179
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,760
They could have another set proposed that says we're going to revoke for.

1180
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:39,360
OK, no, they could have done that.

1181
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:40,360
You're right.

1182
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:41,360
It's not that hard.

1183
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:43,760
It's really not that the veto is what it's called.

1184
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:44,760
Right.

1185
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:45,760
So we're going to do this.

1186
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,400
We're going to veto these four and five so that they can reach a quorum.

1187
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:49,400
Oh, yeah.

1188
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:51,880
They could have changed their vote to no.

1189
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:58,000
They could have just literally just vetoed, you know, but up six that says vetoing four

1190
01:20:58,000 --> 01:20:59,400
and five.

1191
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:04,000
And you say, yes, the community votes unanimously.

1192
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:05,000
Engagement is there.

1193
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,200
We're listening to the people and it's possible.

1194
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:08,200
Nonetheless.

1195
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:09,200
Yeah.

1196
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:17,680
You've got that you've got that issue with them voting and hopefully they figure that

1197
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:23,120
out because I think if they want to be sufficiently decentralized, if they want to sufficiently,

1198
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:28,800
you know, be represented by their people, by their communities, then they will allow

1199
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:39,120
that community to do that and use their financing that the community has provided them to.

1200
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:42,040
Publicize and promote voting.

1201
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:48,520
And you know, yeah, it makes it makes sense under that light.

1202
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:55,320
And and and the AMA after while Cyril was explaining and said both seven, Cyril were

1203
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:56,320
explaining that was a mistake.

1204
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,560
It was a big mistake that they voted.

1205
01:21:58,560 --> 01:21:59,560
They're sorry.

1206
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:00,560
And also was a mistake.

1207
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:06,800
They left out the land from the voting power and said mention that I was trying to find

1208
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,760
it, but I know he said it.

1209
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,200
They said that we don't want to use our wallet.

1210
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,480
I can't remember if he said that we will not use it.

1211
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:17,960
That's why I'm not going to pin him to that right now until I can find what I actually

1212
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:20,880
wrote down because I know I quoted him like that.

1213
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:22,640
That's good for me to know from now on.

1214
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,760
But they made it clear they do have no intention of voting.

1215
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:33,320
And they stuck to that until a couple of days ago, six, 10 and 11 voting in the sandbox

1216
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:34,320
academy.

1217
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:39,760
Which, by the way, love you, Mark, glad that happened and then voting in the sandbox ambassador

1218
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:40,760
program.

1219
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:45,480
That was the first time they had touched the wall had touched the voting process since

1220
01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:47,920
since six, four and five.

1221
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:51,840
So and it's been silent as a grave in some cases.

1222
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:58,120
I've I've said my congratulations because I feel too many different things about seeing

1223
01:22:58,120 --> 01:22:59,520
that vote happen.

1224
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,040
Yeah, I'm happy.

1225
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:07,000
I'm happy, too, I regret the circumstances in which it went through.

1226
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:08,000
Yeah.

1227
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,120
And like I'd agree with that.

1228
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,160
I think it's interesting because knowing what I know about the way that the ambassadors

1229
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:24,400
reacted to the SIP and just generally hating the way that they drafted the budget inside

1230
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:28,160
baseball for you, this was written before the Dow.

1231
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:32,440
Existing, yeah, yeah, I guess.

1232
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:34,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1233
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:41,520
So the first whatever it is, like 15 of these are just, again, centralized ideas.

1234
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:44,160
Yeah, that made me so mad when I saw that.

1235
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:45,160
Oh, my God.

1236
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:46,800
They're coming out slowly.

1237
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,800
They're slowly trickling out to continue to maintain engagement.

1238
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:51,240
Is it a good idea?

1239
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:52,240
Sure.

1240
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:57,360
But they're all, in my opinion, written with the same flaws, faults, right?

1241
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,280
That they don't have and I'm seeing Don Son's comment.

1242
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:01,840
I want to just highlight that.

1243
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:03,080
Can we get back to that a little bit?

1244
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:05,640
Because I think it's really good.

1245
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:12,780
But they're all written in the same way where the budget isn't actually thought out.

1246
01:24:12,780 --> 01:24:17,200
Like it's not discreet on how this money is going.

1247
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:22,640
And so all of the same questions keep coming out with every single one of these SIPs from

1248
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,280
the very first one that had a giant other budget.

1249
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:31,020
I mean, if I go back to your slide, Lancer, on the checkbook, you'll notice that literally

1250
01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:37,840
nothing from LiveOps has passed SIPs or even proposed SIPs.

1251
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:43,960
And that's going to continue to happen if, as they've been saying, decisions that happen

1252
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:48,440
in a DAO can't affect operations.

1253
01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:53,840
Like they literally said that you can't change the way the sandbox is operating with these

1254
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,880
DAO decisions, but they have a huge budget for LiveOps.

1255
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,480
And those concepts bump.

1256
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:06,000
And so SIPs can't go into proposal to do things like you said, where rescaling and resize

1257
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:11,640
in the windows, that's probably a LiveOps situation.

1258
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:14,440
You know, you're never going to see that budget go down.

1259
01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:18,040
And anyway, so it's a fascinating point.

1260
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,760
I didn't think about it like that.

1261
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:30,040
Because as we've talked about here so far with all the case study conversation, we either

1262
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:36,280
need to slowly move towards blurring the line or eventually just delete the line and allow

1263
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:41,840
the community to make the decisions if it is a decentralized economy.

1264
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:42,840
Yeah.

1265
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:43,840
Yeah.

1266
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:47,440
Well, there's something that...

1267
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:49,000
So a future podcast not long from now.

1268
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,200
I'm going to have some Apecoin people in.

1269
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:57,000
And some of the things that as I'm listening to them BOTV and hearing how the governance

1270
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:01,760
working group works, they produce something called a transparency report.

1271
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:03,360
I think it's every quarter.

1272
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,480
And I was reading it the other day.

1273
01:26:05,480 --> 01:26:10,220
And it basically divulges everything that the Apecoin DAO and the Apecoin Foundation

1274
01:26:10,220 --> 01:26:14,840
is doing so that people can be stay informed.

1275
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:19,040
And their motto is, by the way, their motto is apes don't read.

1276
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:23,840
So there's a portion of the community which doesn't look at it at all.

1277
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:29,280
But for those who wish to stay informed, it is a measure by which you can understand and

1278
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:30,600
base your future SIPs on.

1279
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,480
So it has stuff like, we took this many actions.

1280
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:39,660
There were this many forum users and this many new proposals that happened.

1281
01:26:39,660 --> 01:26:43,080
This is how we judged and decided on different measures.

1282
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:49,640
And it gave you a very, it gave me, when I was reading it, pretty solid sense for what

1283
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:56,260
it was that they were trying to do in that given window period of time, which was quarterly.

1284
01:26:56,260 --> 01:27:02,880
We have no such mechanism for the sandbox except through public medium articles, or

1285
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:08,360
being there in person to talk to people, or through these interviews where I have on like

1286
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:15,920
seven asking them different questions or AMAs, and it's very difficult for me as a SIP writer

1287
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:20,440
to do something that's relevant to the community.

1288
01:27:20,440 --> 01:27:24,160
No, no, that's relevant to the company.

1289
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:30,400
So where I just have a SIP now going in place, SIP under development, which is the governance

1290
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:35,100
working group, and then the builders challenge working group.

1291
01:27:35,100 --> 01:27:40,200
And the idea, without having any knowledge of how things are working on the inside, the

1292
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:45,280
idea is that the builders challenge working group would propose the rule set and the key

1293
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:49,840
metrics, the KPIs for builders challenge three.

1294
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:56,800
And then the builders working group would be a more governance under study of the special

1295
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:57,800
council.

1296
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:02,640
So right now there's a gap between the special council is deliberating on things that are

1297
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:06,840
legal, moral, ethical, and not redundant.

1298
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:12,320
But then you don't have anyone judging how, how do we do process improvement?

1299
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:21,360
It's technically the Dow team, I think, but they are, they're not elected, one.

1300
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:26,840
And two, it's very unclear where their boundaries exist.

1301
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:29,680
It seems like we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along.

1302
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:36,000
And there's no central elected entity by which we can bring about our own thought process

1303
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,720
to say this is the way we want to go.

1304
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,400
This is the criteria by which we want to be judged by.

1305
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:42,760
Doesn't exist right now.

1306
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:47,920
And I'm seeing the A-coin Dow do that through their working groups.

1307
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:52,680
So I put it to the SIP and the forums.

1308
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:59,080
This is the way I want to approach going about figuring our own criteria with what we want

1309
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:01,360
to judge ourselves.

1310
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:05,920
And we're currently building the proposal out right now.

1311
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:07,400
I don't even know the answer.

1312
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,520
I'm just doing what I'm trying to go ahead.

1313
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:18,600
I am super hype that you are using the Dow for the right purposes in the right ways down

1314
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:19,600
the right channels.

1315
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:20,600
Right.

1316
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:26,520
And I'm going to make prediction here as somebody who has some understanding of the internal

1317
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:29,200
workings of this place.

1318
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:34,360
I predict that your Builders Challenge suggestion will not only not be edited but be entirely

1319
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:35,360
rejected.

1320
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:36,360
Sure.

1321
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:37,360
But I want you to make it anyway.

1322
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:39,400
Because I want to make it anyways.

1323
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,560
Anyways, I want to hear their rejection.

1324
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:43,560
Yeah.

1325
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:55,640
So, so far, that system, I believe through stage one and stage two is a failure.

1326
01:29:55,640 --> 01:30:10,440
Because it puts a pool of potential earnings up there as the only way that these devs can

1327
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:14,680
make their money, essentially.

1328
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:21,480
So I think I talked about it before on one of your shows where I believe that the Builders

1329
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:28,240
Challenge, it's completely eliminated and you just allowed devs to mint access passes

1330
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:32,160
in any quantity they want.

1331
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:36,400
Then it solves for devs not making enough money.

1332
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:44,240
Because a developer can go out and they can mint a million units of an NFT that is the

1333
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:47,300
access pass to their lamp.

1334
01:30:47,300 --> 01:30:53,440
And then sell those units for 10 bucks a piece and make 10 million dollars because they made

1335
01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:59,080
a damn good game that a million people want to play.

1336
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:06,440
And it makes it where the sandbox stops being this sort of weird as serial metaversy like

1337
01:31:06,440 --> 01:31:11,180
place and ends up being closer to the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store, the Epic

1338
01:31:11,180 --> 01:31:18,560
Games Store, where wherever these sales happen, the sandbox is getting 5%.

1339
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,160
They're getting their cut.

1340
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,960
That's a hell of a lot cheaper than Apple where they get 30%.

1341
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:30,440
It's a hell of a lot cheaper than Epic Games that takes 0% up until your whatever, 10,000th

1342
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:32,180
or 100,000th unit.

1343
01:31:32,180 --> 01:31:35,880
And then they take like 30% thereafter.

1344
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:45,800
So what you would do there is not just make the devs that are making games today happy,

1345
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:51,480
but you would make your platform relevant to devs that are already making games on,

1346
01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:55,960
for lack of a better term, real gaming platforms.

1347
01:31:55,960 --> 01:32:00,760
I mean, you'd be pulling double fine studios wanting to come here, right?

1348
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:06,960
Okay, the publisher would want to be here if they know that their devs can sell a million

1349
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:08,640
units here.

1350
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:13,280
But all you're doing at the moment with these builders challenges is saying, here's a million

1351
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:20,000
total dollars, not $10 million for one dev, a million total dollars divided by 166,464

1352
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:21,000
lands.

1353
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:22,000
Good luck.

1354
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:23,000
Right?

1355
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:31,000
And I think that doesn't incentivize a lot of developers to come make damn good games

1356
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:32,000
here.

1357
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:35,240
And I don't care if it's a game, it could be a concert venue.

1358
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:41,560
You know, if Snoop Dogg can mint a million tickets to go to Snoop Dogg's next concert

1359
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:45,920
for 10 bucks a piece, Snoop Dogg would win the builders challenge, wouldn't they?

1360
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:49,360
Because they'd have a million people show up.

1361
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:50,360
That's fair.

1362
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:51,360
That's true.

1363
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:52,360
You know?

1364
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:57,640
But if the marketing money to go out, that wouldn't have to just come from the sandbox.

1365
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:06,040
It would come from the dev who succeeded and they make Lancer's game number two, Electric

1366
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:11,080
Boogaloo, and it sold two million units this time.

1367
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,440
And he just made $20 million and you pull that home.

1368
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:18,280
And of that $20 million budget, well, out of your first 10 million, you spent a million

1369
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:23,360
dollars in marketing because you just wanted somebody to come to your one land parcel to

1370
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:26,620
play your one game and they bought it.

1371
01:33:26,620 --> 01:33:28,520
They came and they paid for it.

1372
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:33,960
You know, it's not different or really special.

1373
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,100
You could easily sell this to Activision.

1374
01:33:37,100 --> 01:33:43,760
If you said, hey, when you sell your access pass, did you know you can make 5% forever

1375
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,840
when people resell that access pass?

1376
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,520
They'd be like, what?

1377
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:52,960
You sell that new gun for your game, that skin, that NFT, every time it gets resold

1378
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:56,200
on OpenSea, you still make 5% of the resale value.

1379
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:57,200
What?

1380
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:58,640
They'd be in.

1381
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:02,480
You could sell it to them, but you need to allow them to have access to the space and

1382
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:04,200
they just don't have that now.

1383
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:09,360
So I think the builder's challenge personally, like this proposal that you put out, I think

1384
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:13,440
you're going to run into on the proposal that they're going to immediately reject it because

1385
01:34:13,440 --> 01:34:14,840
they're going to say, we already have plans.

1386
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:16,040
Why did they already have plans?

1387
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:17,880
Because they already recognize failures.

1388
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:18,880
Right.

1389
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:22,680
So whatever you pitch, they're going to go, we've already thought of this.

1390
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,600
But what you pitch could have been better.

1391
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,840
And I think that's the junction that we're going to run into as we continue to discuss

1392
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:35,840
these case studies and all these things is the, eventually they got to start to listen

1393
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:41,120
to the decentralized side when the centralized side isn't working.

1394
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:42,680
If that makes sense.

1395
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:46,640
My plan right now, in the beginning it was too hopeful.

1396
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:52,280
I thought when I proposed the SIP, that it would go through the process to vote and then

1397
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:54,360
the Dow would be like, yes or no.

1398
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:56,760
And then that would be the answer.

1399
01:34:56,760 --> 01:35:02,840
And then the sandbox team, for better or worse, would take that answer and either enact it

1400
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:05,640
or it would be a good business reason why they wouldn't.

1401
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:06,640
And then we'd have that debate.

1402
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:07,640
Right.

1403
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:10,560
It wouldn't be the debate of, does it even go to vote?

1404
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:18,600
Like that's the part that threw me was the obstruction from it going from to vote and

1405
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:23,040
not even to vote, not even to the special counsel, even make it to the special counsel.

1406
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:28,760
It stayed in draft the whole time going back and forth and the Dow team and going to the

1407
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,320
product team and this kind of extended limbo.

1408
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:36,720
And then finally like, we kind of have this already, so we're not going to go do it.

1409
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:37,920
That's happened twice now.

1410
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:40,480
Two of my five SIPs.

1411
01:35:40,480 --> 01:35:41,960
And it's just like, what the heck, man?

1412
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:48,640
You know how many hours I put in at the least give me the dignity of letting people judge

1413
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:49,640
and decide it.

1414
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:52,800
But that's not the current approach.

1415
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:59,880
That's where, you know, hopefully those folks in operations are listening to this conversation.

1416
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:02,200
I hope so too, because I love them.

1417
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:05,440
And you should see the comments between them and I, it gets spicy.

1418
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:10,280
Oh man, I'm like, hey, I don't agree with this, but it's very, to me, it's very constructive.

1419
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:15,120
They give me their approach and then I'm like, okay, here's my approach.

1420
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:20,280
And we're in this kind of weird, I can't get it to the special counsel without their

1421
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:27,560
consent and they can't stop acknowledging me until I'm satisfied with the, with our

1422
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:28,560
agreement.

1423
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:33,360
Otherwise, they're pushing a proposal that doesn't represent the author and they're there

1424
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:36,720
make the proposal better, not substitute their own proposal.

1425
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:37,720
Right.

1426
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:42,600
So it's just kind of weird on guard sort of situation.

1427
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:44,120
And it's fascinating.

1428
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:45,120
It's fascinating.

1429
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:48,760
Over time, again, I think that's going to have to shift because they're going to see

1430
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:54,680
their own metrics continue to show that their decision making isn't creating engagement.

1431
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:55,760
Right.

1432
01:36:55,760 --> 01:37:01,640
And that's, that's going to be the difference maker in the end, if they want to succeed

1433
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:04,440
as the management of this doubt.

1434
01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:05,440
I'm with you on that.

1435
01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:06,440
I'm with you on that.

1436
01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:07,440
Yeah.

1437
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:09,960
And unfortunately, you know, we're the first to the gate.

1438
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:15,560
The person who's first to the door gets played the best and Pepe for some reason just magically

1439
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:17,680
floated right through it.

1440
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:18,680
And you know what?

1441
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:21,080
I'm happy because magic was hell of a step.

1442
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:22,080
I know.

1443
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:23,080
I know.

1444
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,120
It's like he was forced to the door and the gate guard was like, huh, what?

1445
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:27,120
Someone just happened.

1446
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:28,120
Someone just walked through.

1447
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:29,120
Yeah.

1448
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:30,120
Yeah.

1449
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:31,120
Right.

1450
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:32,120
And then I come through.

1451
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:33,120
They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

1452
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:35,120
I think I know why that happened.

1453
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,840
I think I brought it up before on one of these shows too.

1454
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:46,000
And maybe it was somewhere else, but because I personally have focused on and the greatest

1455
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:50,600
percentage of voting power in this space.

1456
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,280
The greatest percentage of voting power is focused on folks who have land.

1457
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:55,280
Right.

1458
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:56,480
I think we know that.

1459
01:37:56,480 --> 01:38:03,360
And so if landowners have the greatest amount of power, the proposals that you put through

1460
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:09,720
that positively affect landowners, the most are most likely to get passed and fast.

1461
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:16,000
They're most likely to get rejected and fast because it would be like, no, this is terrible

1462
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:17,880
for me as a landowner.

1463
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:21,520
You know, then that's going to get rejected.

1464
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:25,220
So I think Pepe's got the.

1465
01:38:25,220 --> 01:38:31,640
They had the right first step, which is to say this is going to fix things for developers.

1466
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:36,760
And if the developers have things fixed for, then it should fix things for the economy

1467
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:40,680
of the larger platform that funds this Dow.

1468
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:41,680
And so I get it.

1469
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:46,520
When I was talking earlier about what I would approve of, like, I mean, full disclosure,

1470
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:47,520
right.

1471
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:49,640
We talk about the ambassador program.

1472
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:53,680
I said no.

1473
01:38:53,680 --> 01:39:01,440
Even with the 60% yes vote, I said no because it wasn't written clearly and well.

1474
01:39:01,440 --> 01:39:02,440
I abstain.

1475
01:39:02,440 --> 01:39:03,440
The money didn't matter.

1476
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:11,440
But I said no straight up because they they're having that Q4 budget be the same size as

1477
01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:12,480
2025 budget.

1478
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:14,160
I was like, that shit makes no sense.

1479
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:16,160
Just make the money even across the board.

1480
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,680
Tell me how you're going to pay ambassadors.

1481
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:19,680
What is the new structure?

1482
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:22,480
What are the new incentives for ambassadors?

1483
01:39:22,480 --> 01:39:23,480
Right.

1484
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:27,480
Like, again, I mentioned back in the day, we used to pay people for social media posts

1485
01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:32,440
and it was literally like a quarter a tweet.

1486
01:39:32,440 --> 01:39:35,440
At some point I was like, yo, I'm tired of checking everybody's tweets.

1487
01:39:35,440 --> 01:39:42,760
I swear to God, this is so much time for me and it's not worth, you know, three minutes

1488
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:47,440
for a quarter, you know, so I'm we're not going to pay them the quarter because it costs

1489
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:50,600
us more for me to check it than it does for that.

1490
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:56,240
Anyway, but it's that sort of thing where I wanted to see that sit come down with clarity

1491
01:39:56,240 --> 01:40:00,320
on what the ambassadors are getting paid for if they are getting paid.

1492
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:02,000
How is that structure working?

1493
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:05,240
How many ambassadors are you targeting hiring?

1494
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:09,920
How many ambassadors are you targeting replacing, if any, that sort of thing?

1495
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:15,000
And the other SIP 10 off top my head, I can't remember exactly what that was.

1496
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:16,960
Oh, yeah.

1497
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:18,680
So the Academy, right?

1498
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:22,080
The Academy is an example of something where, again, I doubt 12.

1499
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:23,080
Excuse me.

1500
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:24,080
But 12.

1501
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:25,080
Yeah, yeah.

1502
01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:27,400
So 12, 12 is what I was thinking.

1503
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:34,680
But the so fundamentally, the idea that we are going to educate folks spectacular.

1504
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:36,720
Right.

1505
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:42,680
Doing it in a closed school like setting, I didn't love personally, because I thought

1506
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:46,240
you limited reach with that.

1507
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:48,520
The budget was probably fine.

1508
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:51,320
But I want to see it was pretty small things considered.

1509
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:52,880
Yeah, I want to say.

1510
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:55,600
Second or third lowest of all time steps for us.

1511
01:40:55,600 --> 01:41:04,600
Yeah, I wanted to see a thousand Filipinos get education, not, you know, 30 or 154, I

1512
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:05,600
think.

1513
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:06,600
Sure.

1514
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:13,000
Whatever the number is like, you can do more just by being on line.

1515
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:19,760
A certain part of that budget could have possibly been served to getting more people access

1516
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,880
to being able to do it.

1517
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:23,880
You know what I mean?

1518
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:29,880
Like, have a screen with a TV in a room in one education facility and another and another

1519
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:35,440
and another and another, you know, just connect with the people who are in charge of those

1520
01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:37,360
outreach programs or whatever.

1521
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,720
So you can educate 10 classrooms worth of kids at the time that you do one.

1522
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:44,560
I thought it was just better served in another way.

1523
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:50,360
And because it doesn't fix the fundamental issues that the sandbox has, all of those

1524
01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:57,680
kids who got educated would have to be reeducated, not even counting the fact that, hey, the

1525
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:02,360
sandbox game terms of service says you can't use it because you're under 18.

1526
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:05,560
These are college students.

1527
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:06,960
OK, yeah.

1528
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:11,880
So again, I'm just thinking back to the fact that like Seb tweeted someone in Japan or

1529
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:14,560
Korea, a young kid the other day learning how to do it.

1530
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:16,560
And I was like, oh, yeah, I saw that.

1531
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:17,560
Yeah.

1532
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:18,560
Yeah.

1533
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:19,560
Like kids breaking TOS, but we're going to promote it.

1534
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:20,560
You know what I mean?

1535
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:21,560
But it is what it is.

1536
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:22,560
Good PR, though.

1537
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:23,560
It is what it is.

1538
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:28,360
It's great PR, but it sends the wrong message because it like gets folks excited to get

1539
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:32,760
their kids into this space where it may well be illegal in their country.

1540
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:39,600
If you're in Japan and your kid is in a play to earn space, they're considered child laboring.

1541
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:44,200
Like that's why we couldn't pay sand to people in Japan during season three.

1542
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,040
And we had to give them a special, unique NFT.

1543
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:48,040
Interesting.

1544
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:49,040
Yep.

1545
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:53,440
There's all sorts of, you know, or, you know, different different laws, different spaces.

1546
01:42:53,440 --> 01:42:56,240
Anyway, I move on.

1547
01:42:56,240 --> 01:43:03,520
I think I feel much better about case study a under those strict conditions, although

1548
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:05,720
I feel like we're walking a tightrope.

1549
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:06,720
All right.

1550
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:07,720
All right.

1551
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:13,000
So case study a I'll lock that one into place.

1552
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:16,960
Ambassador program being funded through the Dow is a way to mitigate risk to the ambassador

1553
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:17,960
program.

1554
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:23,520
It's called to the future of the ambassador program.

1555
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:33,160
And then we'll put in parentheses, priority, priority, conflicts, or TSB.

1556
01:43:33,160 --> 01:43:38,800
And then number two, we're in the middle of we're in the middle of centralization and

1557
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:39,800
decentralization.

1558
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:44,960
There's an operations layer between SIP and the sandbox.

1559
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:51,120
And normally that wouldn't be a problem if sandbox company we are able to fully see into

1560
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:54,240
three main road maps.

1561
01:43:54,240 --> 01:44:00,200
If see into the okay.

1562
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:02,520
That's the box that it game maker and operations.

1563
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:05,920
And then the third one, and that's the one that really locked in for me.

1564
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:12,400
It creates a new paradigm where the Dow is authorizing the expenditure versus it all

1565
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:17,600
just coming out of the sandbox company and its corporate hierarchy.

1566
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:21,760
Oh, all right.

1567
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:26,400
Case study B. Also, do you want to take a do you want to take a short bio break?

1568
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:27,400
Okay.

1569
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:33,480
Okay, case study B, this one is this one can be a little raw.

1570
01:44:33,480 --> 01:44:39,920
So before we start into it, there are a lot of emotions is probably the wrong word.

1571
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:46,600
There's a lot of discussions, emotions, all sorts of things surrounding this topic because

1572
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:50,320
crafter has been a very visible part of the community.

1573
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:57,160
And many people on boarded before before they saw crowd crafter didn't have an account and

1574
01:44:57,160 --> 01:44:59,600
after they saw crafter they did have an account.

1575
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:01,320
So there there's that recognition.

1576
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:02,320
Right.

1577
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,040
And Joseph, you've been in the same situation.

1578
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:09,400
Having been a streamer for many years, four people tuned into your stream, it didn't have

1579
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:13,680
an account and afterwards, they're now sandbox people, I could probably even count myself

1580
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:14,680
among them.

1581
01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:17,920
I don't even know that mid December 2021.

1582
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:19,200
You're probably streaming.

1583
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:21,000
I didn't even know who you were at the time.

1584
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:22,640
There's no telling right.

1585
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,280
Telling who it was I tuned into.

1586
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:33,800
But so crafter put out a sip on the drafts so that that's that's an important draft idea.

1587
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:56,200
So sip ideas.

1588
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:35,560
Hold on, make sure I have my facts straight.

1589
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:38,320
I always get those two confused.

1590
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:40,360
It was up dang it.

1591
01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:43,120
I blame deeper.

1592
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:44,120
Here it is.

1593
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:45,120
And it's in ideas.

1594
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:46,120
Excuse me.

1595
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:47,120
Okay, so sip ideas.

1596
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:48,120
Let me fix what I can see.

1597
01:45:48,120 --> 01:45:49,120
There we go.

1598
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:50,120
So sip ideas.

1599
01:45:56,200 --> 01:46:02,640
For all of you who don't are unaware, there are three, four states in which a sip can

1600
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:03,640
be.

1601
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:07,560
One is active, mean it is undergoing vote at this right instant.

1602
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:08,560
Right.

1603
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:13,280
So the only one doing that right now is sip 13, which is the energy drop.

1604
01:46:13,280 --> 01:46:15,240
Then there are sip drafts.

1605
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:17,640
Those are undergoing public comment.

1606
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:23,560
So that's where mine is right now the windows for sizing, and also the metaverse and disability.

1607
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:31,320
Those have been advanced from ideas to draft draft being the 14 day public comment, when

1608
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:37,560
it while it goes to the sip council or the special counsel for vote on redundancy, moral,

1609
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:39,720
ethical, all that.

1610
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:41,200
Then there's sip idea.

1611
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:46,680
And that is where people anyone can post a paragraph if they wanted to, of what they

1612
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:50,600
think they want to do a sip on.

1613
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:56,600
And then that is where you can kind of get a sounding board of are you in the right direction?

1614
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:57,600
Early early feedback.

1615
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:02,720
All right, so the difference between sip ID and sip draft sip draft are those steps who

1616
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:07,760
have been submitted via email to sip at sandboxed out calm.

1617
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:12,540
And that and the message you put here is the link to the template that I filled out that

1618
01:47:12,540 --> 01:47:13,540
is required.

1619
01:47:13,540 --> 01:47:16,360
Okay, then it is a draft.

1620
01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:18,640
And then the fourth one is it's withdrawn.

1621
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:25,760
A sip that has been through one of these previous planes has been withdrawn by the creator.

1622
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:30,520
And the only one that has gone through that is Kural, who did creative first, I think

1623
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:34,640
he was sand out five or six, we interviewed him.

1624
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:43,160
And he withdrew his sip after it received a negative recommendation from the special

1625
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:44,160
counsel.

1626
01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:45,160
Okay.

1627
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:49,520
So that doesn't mean that if you get a negative recommendation that you will then you would

1628
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:51,320
then force withdraw it.

1629
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:52,320
That's not going to happen.

1630
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:57,840
So Sandel podcast, I think I'm going to get a negative, a negative recommendation from

1631
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:04,120
the sandbox, a special counsel, because it is considered kind of redundant to what the

1632
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:09,840
sandbox Dow wants to propose its own special its own podcast.

1633
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:12,640
Alright, so that would make mine redundant.

1634
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:16,420
I think I'm going to get a negative from the special counsel.

1635
01:48:16,420 --> 01:48:22,720
Even if I do, I'm still going to add requests it goes to vote, because we're still doing

1636
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:23,720
it right.

1637
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:26,400
And the sandbox Dow doesn't have a podcast officially.

1638
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,920
So right now.

1639
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,720
So yeah, that's the four states.

1640
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:42,520
Alright, so in the sip idea, alright, crafter posted a sponsor him as a as a sponsor.

1641
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:47,840
As a user generated content creator, an onboarding specialist.

1642
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:52,560
And in this, he explains all he wants to do.

1643
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:58,440
The TLDR being the Dow will benefit from increased awareness, growth, engagement, basically reimbursing

1644
01:48:58,440 --> 01:49:05,960
him for all of the many hundreds of hours he's put as a not ambassador as a as a SanFam

1645
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:15,200
individual member, and we would would fund and compensate him for his full time, creatorship

1646
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:17,080
and onboarding specialist.

1647
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:18,360
Okay.

1648
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:21,660
And then he had a whole like, I'll do this Monday through Friday.

1649
01:49:21,660 --> 01:49:25,000
And here's how I would divide my time up all that stuff.

1650
01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:26,000
Okay.

1651
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:28,440
This is how this is while this can be state case study.

1652
01:49:28,440 --> 01:49:29,440
Okay.

1653
01:49:29,440 --> 01:49:30,440
You don't see it right now.

1654
01:49:30,440 --> 01:49:34,240
But there was a lock button right there about a week ago.

1655
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:40,040
And it was locked by the Dow team because they put it in here.

1656
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:41,040
Right?

1657
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:44,000
Where is it up up up up up?

1658
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,520
It was by Geraldine, I believe.

1659
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:49,680
Oh, wasn't here.

1660
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:51,880
Where to go?

1661
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:54,440
That'd be right there.

1662
01:49:54,440 --> 01:49:55,440
There.

1663
01:49:55,440 --> 01:49:56,440
Okay.

1664
01:49:56,440 --> 01:50:01,440
So this post by Geraldine 18 days ago said, we appreciate crafter what you're bringing

1665
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:02,440
to the table.

1666
01:50:02,440 --> 01:50:07,360
We believe that your proposal closely aligns with the objectives of the Ambassador Program.

1667
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:09,600
Both initiatives share the common goal.

1668
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:13,480
Due to these overlapping objectives, we feel that pursuing collaboration through the Ambassador

1669
01:50:13,480 --> 01:50:16,160
Program will be a more effective approach.

1670
01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:18,720
Can you apply to the Ambassador Program?

1671
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:21,320
And as of that, he closed the discussion.

1672
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:22,320
Okay.

1673
01:50:22,320 --> 01:50:27,720
There's point A, then I'm like, well, hold on a second.

1674
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:35,440
They're not aligned, because right at that time, all my friends stated that anyone who

1675
01:50:35,440 --> 01:50:41,080
went on contract with the Dow and that the Dow went on contract to be an ambassador would

1676
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:47,040
be compelled to give to be part of the communication channel, they would they would be compelled

1677
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:49,600
to talk about sips and all that sort of stuff.

1678
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:54,360
So then I said, that's definitely not in close alignment with what crafters proposing.

1679
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:57,300
Crafter would not be compelled to do those sorts of things.

1680
01:50:57,300 --> 01:51:04,080
And so I posted and it was the same time that they also closed my Sandex, which was basically

1681
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:08,640
a Google sheet of of publicly researched.

1682
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:10,480
This person owns this wallet.

1683
01:51:10,480 --> 01:51:15,180
And therefore, here's how you can not connect to them to request their vote.

1684
01:51:15,180 --> 01:51:20,680
The same thing that that had been went through to get his vote to contact all the landowners

1685
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:22,360
I have to do now.

1686
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:28,800
Sandex would make that publicly viewable for the whole Dow to contact.

1687
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:34,000
And so Geraldine came in and said that there's probably there's privacy things going on there

1688
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:35,800
that we don't agree with.

1689
01:51:35,800 --> 01:51:37,640
So they closed it.

1690
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:42,400
And so I opened up this help and feedback to say, can you please reopen them?

1691
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:43,400
Here's the reasons why.

1692
01:51:43,400 --> 01:51:44,400
All right.

1693
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:45,400
Out of that.

1694
01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:47,800
Out of that.

1695
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:53,320
And still talking with Cyril about that, because he eventually weighed in.

1696
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:56,160
So we were going back and forth on that as we speak.

1697
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:58,880
But out of that came the case study.

1698
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:04,560
Cyril said in one of his responses to that thread, I opened up saying, please open them

1699
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:05,560
up.

1700
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:06,560
Here's the reasons why.

1701
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:09,560
One of the things Cyril said was voting.

1702
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:17,480
However, a full time sponsored by the Dow UGC onboarding specialist with no reporting

1703
01:52:17,480 --> 01:52:22,800
line to the content team is a different beast entirely and would effectively disturb its

1704
01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:24,240
current operations.

1705
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:28,840
This was in the midst of a much larger response.

1706
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:30,560
Here it is.

1707
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,200
So he's basically saying it was a judgment call.

1708
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:40,760
And we don't think that a full time UGC onboarding specialist with no connection or adherence

1709
01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:48,400
to the sandbox game team is in the best interest of the community.

1710
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:51,040
And that's why we closed it.

1711
01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:52,480
All right.

1712
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:56,000
So that's the context by which this became a case study.

1713
01:52:56,000 --> 01:53:03,520
You have here a potential sip saying I want to be funded for my efforts that I'm already

1714
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:04,520
doing.

1715
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:12,240
We had like 200 stream hours and over 20 people live viewing at one point and all that.

1716
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:15,360
You have someone saying I want to be compensated.

1717
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:16,760
Will the Dow accept this?

1718
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:23,800
And then the operations team says, actually, no, we don't want that to go to vote because

1719
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:28,520
it will conflict with its reporting to the sandbox game.

1720
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:30,280
There's a divergence right there.

1721
01:53:30,280 --> 01:53:34,080
Okay, Joseph, what do you think?

1722
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:42,440
Okay, so I'm going to lay it out there from my operations experience.

1723
01:53:42,440 --> 01:53:43,440
Okay.

1724
01:53:43,440 --> 01:53:45,080
It's my understanding.

1725
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:48,080
What was the number?

1726
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:49,080
Is it on the SIP?

1727
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:50,920
How much did Crafter request?

1728
01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:53,880
Yes, I believe it was.

1729
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:57,080
I'll find that while you're pretty sure.

1730
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:00,200
As I recall, it was about 40,000 US dollars.

1731
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:02,320
It was a number in sand.

1732
01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:04,000
Maybe it might have been in USD.

1733
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:08,240
If it's written in USD, first of all, I think in my opinion, if you make any proposal and

1734
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:13,400
you write it in US dollars, I'm going to say no immediately because this is not the US

1735
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:14,400
dollars Dow.

1736
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:15,880
This is a sand Dow.

1737
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:20,520
So it was 5000 per month for six months, $30,000 USD.

1738
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:21,520
Right.

1739
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:23,960
30,000 total US dollars for six months.

1740
01:54:23,960 --> 01:54:24,960
All right.

1741
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:31,360
Which our current trading is about $30,000.

1742
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:37,880
Started by point 36, I think right now, 83,000 sand.

1743
01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:45,600
Right now, every person with exception to those who are ambassadors and get paid in

1744
01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:53,840
a different pay schedule is a salaried sandbox staffer that also incidentally live streams,

1745
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:54,960
right?

1746
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:56,880
On the official channels.

1747
01:54:56,880 --> 01:55:03,280
So all the live streams have no additional cost aside from, as they mentioned, the ambassador

1748
01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:05,480
program, right?

1749
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:09,720
So if crafter is a part of the ambassador program, he falls within spec.

1750
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:12,320
What is expected already?

1751
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:19,920
However, let's just for the sake of doing it, I want to do $30,000.

1752
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:21,840
You said six months, right?

1753
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:24,840
Six months, he said $5,000 a month.

1754
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:25,840
Six months.

1755
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:26,840
Okay.

1756
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:32,560
So six months, four weeks and 30,000 total.

1757
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:33,560
Yep.

1758
01:55:33,560 --> 01:55:36,440
Six months, four weeks, 40 hours.

1759
01:55:36,440 --> 01:55:39,680
Sandboxes trading at 25 cents on the dollar right now.

1760
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:45,800
And he so that means that according to that proposal, crafter is expecting to make $31.25

1761
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:57,080
US per hour on schedule to produce a live stream, which is maybe fine.

1762
01:55:57,080 --> 01:56:10,360
However, to 20 people an hour that is paying $1.5625 per person, KPI.

1763
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:16,960
If I'm going to do a normal marketing campaign and I'm thinking about my marketing budget,

1764
01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:18,120
right?

1765
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:21,000
I think that's really what you're looking at.

1766
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:24,900
You want to reach out to a potential streamer and say, I need to get increased exposure

1767
01:56:24,900 --> 01:56:26,100
for the product.

1768
01:56:26,100 --> 01:56:29,280
This isn't that crafter is a specialized person who understands the tools.

1769
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:30,820
They understand the platform.

1770
01:56:30,820 --> 01:56:36,720
All those things have certain value, but generally speaking, you're spending in the ballpark

1771
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:45,400
of 25 to maybe 75 cents per thousand exposures.

1772
01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:48,160
Like it's not that much.

1773
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:53,380
And you know, you spend more generally for a live streamer per exposure.

1774
01:56:53,380 --> 01:57:00,080
But if I'm paying 31 an hour, I'm expecting to probably see that crafter is going to have

1775
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:08,160
like 150 viewers on their stream at any given moment.

1776
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:14,840
Now how does that track with what happens in the sandbox game?

1777
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:17,120
You know, Panda Pops works there.

1778
01:57:17,120 --> 01:57:19,120
Panda Pops also incidentally streams.

1779
01:57:19,120 --> 01:57:21,320
Alex works there also incidentally streams.

1780
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:25,500
They have other functions while they're not live on the show.

1781
01:57:25,500 --> 01:57:31,120
And so they cost zero dollars an hour to stream.

1782
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:34,700
Now let's take all of that and throw it out for a second.

1783
01:57:34,700 --> 01:57:39,260
You're not asking for money from the sandbox game.

1784
01:57:39,260 --> 01:57:41,960
You're asking for money from the Dow.

1785
01:57:41,960 --> 01:57:51,420
So you're asking for money from the community to say, what I do is going to boost, not sustain,

1786
01:57:51,420 --> 01:57:57,560
but boost this platform to be more successful tomorrow than it is today.

1787
01:57:57,560 --> 01:58:03,560
And the other conflict that I see with this, again, this is not disparaging crafter.

1788
01:58:03,560 --> 01:58:06,080
The exact same thing happens to me.

1789
01:58:06,080 --> 01:58:11,920
The 20 people who are watching his show are 20 people who are watching mine.

1790
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:16,160
And 11 of those people are on your Twitch right now.

1791
01:58:16,160 --> 01:58:18,960
And they're basically all the same damn people.

1792
01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:26,840
So now you're taking $30,000 so that you could entertain those same people again, which again,

1793
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:29,920
may be OK in the right situations.

1794
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:33,440
But he's got a service aid demand that is not currently met.

1795
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:38,440
And you've got a VoxEdit streamer and you've got a designer streamer and you've got entertainment

1796
01:58:38,440 --> 01:58:40,080
streams.

1797
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:44,280
And you've got special event streams that are currently covered.

1798
01:58:44,280 --> 01:58:51,840
And so what does a crafter do differently with this Dow budget that doesn't exist?

1799
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:57,880
And as you mentioned just a second ago, he's probably not going to stay focused on Dow

1800
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:01,880
discussion.

1801
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:05,300
That's the demand that is not currently met.

1802
01:59:05,300 --> 01:59:08,160
So that would be something that should possibly be required to do.

1803
01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:10,080
I'm now in it.

1804
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:11,720
You're meeting it, right?

1805
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:16,040
You're meeting it potentially what you do has a value.

1806
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:20,520
And the question then is, again, if we look at it under traditional microscope of marketing

1807
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:24,960
expenses, do we have a CPC?

1808
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:29,360
You should replace the parenthesis KPI because that's not what a KPI is generally like a

1809
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:30,360
metrics thing.

1810
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:31,360
You want to do like CPC.

1811
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:32,360
Cost per click?

1812
01:59:32,360 --> 01:59:33,360
Oh, OK, got it.

1813
01:59:33,360 --> 01:59:34,360
Yeah.

1814
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:40,320
CPC slash CPM is like the two terms that are standard in marketing.

1815
01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:43,000
But the I don't know marketing that well.

1816
01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:44,000
So thank you for that.

1817
01:59:44,000 --> 01:59:45,000
Yeah.

1818
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:48,520
So basically the.

1819
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:53,000
If I'm funding your show, because you're the guy now, you're the guy who's known for doing

1820
01:59:53,000 --> 01:59:57,880
this podcast, for doing these SIP discussions and having good engaging conversation.

1821
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:00,820
I just turn my question and you do.

1822
02:00:00,820 --> 02:00:02,440
But that's that's what we all do.

1823
02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:03,440
That's what we all do.

1824
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:08,200
You just turn it on and you have compelling chats and you find the right voices to get

1825
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:12,800
in those conversations and we learn together and we don't all know.

1826
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:16,920
And so the.

1827
02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:20,280
Then you think about the other thing, right?

1828
02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:24,520
One of the other reasons why I think this doesn't make a lot of sense is the funding

1829
02:00:24,520 --> 02:00:34,320
podcasts, funding marketing for products from folks who aren't highly practiced in it with

1830
02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:40,120
other connections already is exactly how a lot of money got dumped out of the eight coin

1831
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:41,120
down.

1832
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:42,120
Yeah.

1833
02:00:42,120 --> 02:00:48,480
They wasted so much money funding people to have three white dudes sit around microphones

1834
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:49,480
and talk about this.

1835
02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:50,480
You know what I mean?

1836
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:52,840
And at the you know, whatever.

1837
02:00:52,840 --> 02:00:54,480
That's mostly a joke because I get it.

1838
02:00:54,480 --> 02:00:55,480
I get it.

1839
02:00:55,480 --> 02:00:56,480
I get it.

1840
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:59,760
But the yeah, it's.

1841
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:02,320
The overall you're looking at a value proposition.

1842
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:08,040
I think personally that the value proposition isn't there, but it's not because crafters

1843
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:10,160
not great, right?

1844
02:01:10,160 --> 02:01:15,640
It's just that there's not that much money to throw around anymore.

1845
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:20,560
What about your hero said that the reason why they closed it or that the Dow team wouldn't

1846
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:24,560
advance it is because there's no reporting line to the content team.

1847
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:25,560
Yeah.

1848
02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:30,940
So it's the same problem if they if there was a demand for this podcast, then the marketing

1849
02:01:30,940 --> 02:01:35,640
team for the sandbox official would have just bought him.

1850
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:38,740
The marketing team for the sandbox official would have said, we love what you're doing.

1851
02:01:38,740 --> 02:01:43,600
Come officially work for us so that you can be in the Monday meeting to get all the information

1852
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:48,560
for the week so that you can disseminate that information every single day on your part

1853
02:01:48,560 --> 02:01:49,560
or on your show.

1854
02:01:49,560 --> 02:01:54,880
But what right does the Dow team have to decide that in advance of the Dow?

1855
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:55,880
Signing that for either itself.

1856
02:01:55,880 --> 02:01:56,880
No, it doesn't.

1857
02:01:56,880 --> 02:01:59,500
I'd agree with that.

1858
02:01:59,500 --> 02:02:05,800
But that's the fundamental difference between the idea of decentralized anything having

1859
02:02:05,800 --> 02:02:08,880
now one to 10 people tell me now.

1860
02:02:08,880 --> 02:02:09,880
Right.

1861
02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:16,040
Like on its base, the community should have been able to have these conversations, make

1862
02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:18,720
this decision and say no.

1863
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:24,920
The community probably should have been educated in the process of the Dow.

1864
02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:31,000
The crafter should have probably been educated enough to not pitch this in dollars.

1865
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:37,480
But crafter was smart enough to know that sand.

1866
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:41,960
Since the previous peak has not had a bounce.

1867
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:46,200
Yeah, it's just very slowly.

1868
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:48,720
Like loss buying power.

1869
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:54,860
And so crafter would have had to pitch getting paid way too damn much early so that maybe

1870
02:02:54,860 --> 02:03:00,000
at the end of that six months, they're sure, you know, with a 20, 30 percent price reduction

1871
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:02,440
or something, they were still covered.

1872
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:07,440
Not to say that the sand will do that or whatever, but you don't know the uncertainty in a market,

1873
02:03:07,440 --> 02:03:12,000
especially in a market where we're essentially all waiting for the Federal Reserve to reduce

1874
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,760
rates.

1875
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:15,840
Everything is bleeding.

1876
02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:16,840
The S&P is bleeding.

1877
02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:17,840
Bitcoin is bleeding.

1878
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:19,680
Sand is bleeding.

1879
02:03:19,680 --> 02:03:22,400
It's all going to go down slowly over time.

1880
02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:28,760
So the problem is, though, it's education that we're lacking in terms of how do we propose

1881
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:30,240
these things?

1882
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:37,180
You know, so no reporting line to the content team could have been something that crafters

1883
02:03:37,180 --> 02:03:42,120
suggested and made the adjustment in with included in this.

1884
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:50,460
I will report to the marketing team and you, the community will get a daily news skit,

1885
02:03:50,460 --> 02:03:52,360
you know, whatever.

1886
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:56,000
Whatever makes it make sense.

1887
02:03:56,000 --> 02:04:00,680
What obligation would he have had to report to the content?

1888
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:08,240
Well none, except that the if there is no reporting, right, then it would have had to

1889
02:04:08,240 --> 02:04:15,800
been someone like you, Lancer, going, man, you still only have 20 viewers and it's been

1890
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:19,040
a year and they're all the same people.

1891
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:23,040
It would have had to been someone like you who would have had to be and you're not an

1892
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:25,100
expert in the marketing department, right?

1893
02:04:25,100 --> 02:04:30,400
You would have had to have been tracking that crafters not moving the needle or that they

1894
02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:31,880
are.

1895
02:04:31,880 --> 02:04:38,600
And otherwise, if you're not, you're literally throwing away money as Dow voters.

1896
02:04:38,600 --> 02:04:45,280
And so that's the advantage to reporting line to the content team is there's at least someone

1897
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:53,480
with experience in there that can say you're doing nothing or you're doing something, right?

1898
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:55,520
That's it's what you want.

1899
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:57,080
It's what you want to see.

1900
02:04:57,080 --> 02:05:02,720
Again, you know, it's a more centralized approach and that's the convergence that we need to

1901
02:05:02,720 --> 02:05:03,720
come to.

1902
02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:06,920
I believe and I would have voted this down.

1903
02:05:06,920 --> 02:05:10,120
If it comes to a vote, I will probably voted down.

1904
02:05:10,120 --> 02:05:18,960
I believe that you don't need that because while what crafter does is important, if it's

1905
02:05:18,960 --> 02:05:26,720
like the other streamers, like the rest of us do, you have your main focus is something

1906
02:05:26,720 --> 02:05:36,820
fundamental, something valuable that continues to push the the plot.

1907
02:05:36,820 --> 02:05:42,160
It makes it easier to build in or it makes it easier to play in.

1908
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:46,000
It makes it you know, you want things that are more accessible.

1909
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:52,600
And you know, if he's doing that first, then he doesn't need to be paid for this because

1910
02:05:52,600 --> 02:05:57,040
he's already doing like the rest of us do.

1911
02:05:57,040 --> 02:06:01,260
He's already got a bread winning thing that is positive contribution to the community.

1912
02:06:01,260 --> 02:06:05,740
And then he happens to because he loves the community be able to do this.

1913
02:06:05,740 --> 02:06:13,520
And that's sort of the hard thing about, you know, about the there's so few like podcast

1914
02:06:13,520 --> 02:06:20,160
only people who really can make money doing it because the value proposition has to be

1915
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:21,640
there somewhere.

1916
02:06:21,640 --> 02:06:25,760
Most of the people who make money podcasting do so on the backs of celebrities and then

1917
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:29,360
then in and of themselves become celebrity.

1918
02:06:29,360 --> 02:06:30,360
Okay.

1919
02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:31,360
Okay.

1920
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:34,880
I get where you're coming from.

1921
02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:44,720
Is there would you say that there is let me put it this way.

1922
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:51,720
What I see Cyril doing there when he endorsed or provided context to Geraldine's locking

1923
02:06:51,720 --> 02:07:01,440
on the thread is that Cyril was forward projecting what you just said, which I think that's probably

1924
02:07:01,440 --> 02:07:07,520
what he was embodying when he spoke back to say there's no reporting line here.

1925
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:09,520
Don't want to disrupt their operations.

1926
02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:18,600
And there is a much longer post that I sounds like he was projecting that onto a SIP author

1927
02:07:18,600 --> 02:07:23,200
as one of the Dow administrators and administrators.

1928
02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:25,280
I don't know how I feel about that.

1929
02:07:25,280 --> 02:07:27,480
That's the same that's happening to me right now.

1930
02:07:27,480 --> 02:07:28,480
Yeah.

1931
02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:29,840
Well, that's the thing.

1932
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:30,840
That's the problem.

1933
02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:38,520
And I do agree that that's a problem is that if the community is educated in the process

1934
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:45,480
of the Dow, if the community is engaged with the Dow, then you don't need to do that.

1935
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:48,560
You don't need to interrupt these processes.

1936
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:55,200
The community would just end up looking at each other and saying, how many more people

1937
02:07:55,200 --> 02:07:57,520
will we bring in?

1938
02:07:57,520 --> 02:07:59,320
I mean, I think it's safe to assume.

1939
02:07:59,320 --> 02:08:00,320
All right.

1940
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:04,760
But everybody who's voting in the same wants sand to succeed.

1941
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:07,240
I think that's a safe assumption.

1942
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:12,520
Everybody who's voting for propositions in the Dow, these proposals, they want to see

1943
02:08:12,520 --> 02:08:16,440
those proposals turn into sand being worth more.

1944
02:08:16,440 --> 02:08:19,520
I'm pretty sure that's the case.

1945
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:24,520
So if you're looking at this proposals, if your people are engaged, your people are here.

1946
02:08:24,520 --> 02:08:25,520
Right.

1947
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:31,400
So, you know, like one of my reasons is that every single name that's coming up in the

1948
02:08:31,400 --> 02:08:35,320
chat, I recognize that's one of my reasons for continuing to do this.

1949
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:39,880
Like this conversation right now is happening for free because I care about these people

1950
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:40,880
in this chat.

1951
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:45,800
You know, that's and I'm serious about that because there have definitely been times where

1952
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,720
like like, oh my God, I was playing in the last game, Jim.

1953
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:51,760
I don't know if the results are public yet.

1954
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:52,760
Yes, they are.

1955
02:08:52,760 --> 02:08:53,760
I did that.

1956
02:08:53,760 --> 02:08:59,560
I was playing someone's game and I went.

1957
02:08:59,560 --> 02:09:01,160
Wow.

1958
02:09:01,160 --> 02:09:06,560
Life made me Paul Paul life made me they use both usernames.

1959
02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:11,060
Their games have just gotten so much better than and progressively.

1960
02:09:11,060 --> 02:09:12,460
So over the years.

1961
02:09:12,460 --> 02:09:18,280
And so those people, you know, that's that's that's my incentive for doing stuff like this.

1962
02:09:18,280 --> 02:09:19,280
Hear that?

1963
02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:20,280
Hear that audience.

1964
02:09:20,280 --> 02:09:22,640
If it weren't for you, he wouldn't even he wouldn't even respond back to me.

1965
02:09:22,640 --> 02:09:25,880
You said no, no, it's literally responded.

1966
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:32,640
It's not like like like I'm in the middle of interview process for the CM position for

1967
02:09:32,640 --> 02:09:33,880
the Dow itself.

1968
02:09:33,880 --> 02:09:36,360
And I'm like, Lancer, let me hit you up like we're caught.

1969
02:09:36,360 --> 02:09:38,000
We're talking it to in the freaking morning.

1970
02:09:38,000 --> 02:09:39,000
My time.

1971
02:09:39,000 --> 02:09:40,000
I'm like, I know.

1972
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:41,000
I know.

1973
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:43,440
That's that's why you were a great pick.

1974
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:45,120
That's why you're a great pick.

1975
02:09:45,120 --> 02:09:47,080
Well, you you're community management.

1976
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:49,560
It is what it is.

1977
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:50,560
Yeah.

1978
02:09:50,560 --> 02:09:59,920
And hopefully one day the folks in charge from all aspects will recognize that I am

1979
02:09:59,920 --> 02:10:04,440
passionate about this community and I care about its people and I care about its future

1980
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:08,920
success until such a day comes.

1981
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:14,520
I'm going to continue to be cordial.

1982
02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:19,160
You know, because because I have feelings, Chad, I have feelings about this.

1983
02:10:19,160 --> 02:10:24,560
He's a human, you can see I'm being kind and caring because I care.

1984
02:10:24,560 --> 02:10:27,920
That's the other half of the reason why is that half the reason is I want to see San

1985
02:10:27,920 --> 02:10:28,920
go up.

1986
02:10:28,920 --> 02:10:35,360
But my main motivation is I want this community to be healthy, educated and engaged.

1987
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:38,040
I want to do my part in bringing that about.

1988
02:10:38,040 --> 02:10:39,040
I don't want to look.

1989
02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:46,120
I don't want to look at this and say I did nothing to help with that situation that would.

1990
02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:51,040
I mean, I just I don't I don't have it in me to stand aside like that.

1991
02:10:51,040 --> 02:10:57,080
It's just too much of business, community, gaming altogether.

1992
02:10:57,080 --> 02:10:58,520
Like this is it for me.

1993
02:10:58,520 --> 02:10:59,520
This is it.

1994
02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:01,720
Yeah, this is where I want to be.

1995
02:11:01,720 --> 02:11:02,720
All right.

1996
02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:08,000
So what I think I heard something that made sense to me about this case study, which is

1997
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:16,800
where Cyril said he projected into their disturbing the current operations of the sandbox team.

1998
02:11:16,800 --> 02:11:23,700
And he specifically called out that because there's no reporting line, because the Dow

1999
02:11:23,700 --> 02:11:33,000
isn't subject to the sandbox game by virtue of the author being subject to the sandbox

2000
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:38,120
people, that it was now unacceptable for the SIP to proceed.

2001
02:11:38,120 --> 02:11:44,880
And the thing that came through to me on that is if the community was engaged and educated,

2002
02:11:44,880 --> 02:11:49,640
then you wouldn't need that sort of disruptive, interruptive element.

2003
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:55,120
No, that that that projective element that Cyril did there.

2004
02:11:55,120 --> 02:12:01,560
I think that's I think also, you know, this is a problem that will solve itself, because

2005
02:12:01,560 --> 02:12:05,320
as you mentioned, the team that actively manages the Dow is quite small.

2006
02:12:05,320 --> 02:12:06,320
You've seen it in the forums.

2007
02:12:06,320 --> 02:12:08,120
Otherwise, you see more names, right?

2008
02:12:08,120 --> 02:12:09,320
And you and we don't.

2009
02:12:09,320 --> 02:12:14,160
So one of the.

2010
02:12:14,160 --> 02:12:18,760
I'm not sure how much of an interview I'm allowed to disclose on a stream.

2011
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:20,720
Well, anyway, I was I was.

2012
02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:22,600
Let's be safe and disclose none of it.

2013
02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:24,120
Yeah, OK.

2014
02:12:24,120 --> 02:12:25,120
That's fair.

2015
02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:26,840
I want to protect you on this one.

2016
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:27,840
I.

2017
02:12:27,840 --> 02:12:28,840
Yeah, it's good.

2018
02:12:28,840 --> 02:12:29,840
Yeah, that's fine.

2019
02:12:29,840 --> 02:12:31,680
I mean, the.

2020
02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:33,080
I forgot I lost my train of thought.

2021
02:12:33,080 --> 02:12:35,200
I could have pivoted that had my brain.

2022
02:12:35,200 --> 02:12:39,560
It was about how Cyril was projecting the same boxes.

2023
02:12:39,560 --> 02:12:45,680
Oh, so this problem, the education element, I think, solves itself in time with a community

2024
02:12:45,680 --> 02:12:52,560
manager and assuming that community manager understands the process, then that's a big

2025
02:12:52,560 --> 02:12:53,560
assumption.

2026
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:54,960
It clears up.

2027
02:12:54,960 --> 02:12:57,880
This clears up over time.

2028
02:12:57,880 --> 02:13:04,280
If you're watching the sandbox team, you you need to have someone in that place understands

2029
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:06,480
the community with which they're about to engage.

2030
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:12,400
If you put someone in who is not San Fam right now, you will be you will be handicapping

2031
02:13:12,400 --> 02:13:17,640
that person and us at the same time.

2032
02:13:17,640 --> 02:13:20,320
So Crafter.

2033
02:13:20,320 --> 02:13:22,400
And Joseph.

2034
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:23,400
Excellent picks.

2035
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:26,560
Like you cannot go wrong.

2036
02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:28,280
And this he's not paying me to say this.

2037
02:13:28,280 --> 02:13:29,720
You cannot go wrong.

2038
02:13:29,720 --> 02:13:34,520
Joseph being the community manager, like of all the people.

2039
02:13:34,520 --> 02:13:36,000
All right.

2040
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:40,920
I appreciate I appreciate the the pitch there.

2041
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:44,360
Nonetheless, we'll see.

2042
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:49,900
I'm sure it is my genuine opinion that the administrators of the Dow aren't the ones

2043
02:13:49,900 --> 02:13:51,160
who need to change their mind.

2044
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:54,520
So I don't think the people who are.

2045
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:56,800
That's fair.

2046
02:13:56,800 --> 02:13:58,160
All right.

2047
02:13:58,160 --> 02:14:03,960
So that's I think that came through loud and clear that if if the community was educating

2048
02:14:03,960 --> 02:14:09,520
gauge, which really is to say if we saw the leveling of engagement already with the quorum

2049
02:14:09,520 --> 02:14:15,200
and everything else, those are the variables by which you can judge.

2050
02:14:15,200 --> 02:14:18,000
Maybe we wouldn't have had to need to say that.

2051
02:14:18,000 --> 02:14:22,600
I don't know right now.

2052
02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:26,760
I'll buy that for now, but that that's going to quickly wear out its welcome with me.

2053
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:29,160
Yeah, no, I mean, and that's fair.

2054
02:14:29,160 --> 02:14:33,840
I think we're like if it's me, we've already put the cart before the horse.

2055
02:14:33,840 --> 02:14:34,840
Right.

2056
02:14:34,840 --> 02:14:40,440
How are we on SIP 12 without someone that is in constant communication and education

2057
02:14:40,440 --> 02:14:43,640
about the process of proposing a SIP?

2058
02:14:43,640 --> 02:14:44,640
Right.

2059
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:48,920
Like we shouldn't have had we shouldn't have SIPs in discussion that are coming in the

2060
02:14:48,920 --> 02:14:50,880
U.S. dollars basis at all.

2061
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:54,400
We shouldn't have SIPs that have gotten passed in U.S. dollars basis.

2062
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:57,200
That should have been avoided before we even got a SIP.

2063
02:14:57,200 --> 02:15:00,480
There shouldn't have been SIPs one, two and three before the community knew how they were

2064
02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:02,240
going to work.

2065
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:07,800
And it's a it's an operations process that really could have been done better.

2066
02:15:07,800 --> 02:15:10,520
And now it's it's getting caught up.

2067
02:15:10,520 --> 02:15:11,520
Do it.

2068
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:12,520
Go fast.

2069
02:15:12,520 --> 02:15:14,040
Get someone who knows what they're doing.

2070
02:15:14,040 --> 02:15:15,640
Get them out there to have the conversation.

2071
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:17,360
Get them engaged with the community.

2072
02:15:17,360 --> 02:15:22,440
Get people excited about doing this, you know, and it's a.

2073
02:15:22,440 --> 02:15:23,440
Yeah.

2074
02:15:23,440 --> 02:15:24,440
Okay.

2075
02:15:24,440 --> 02:15:29,120
So where do I stand on this now?

2076
02:15:29,120 --> 02:15:30,640
Okay.

2077
02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:40,560
I accept the rationale that if the community had displayed, let's call it not acceptable,

2078
02:15:40,560 --> 02:15:51,400
but consistent levels of engagement through quorum, so through through through voting

2079
02:15:51,400 --> 02:15:56,840
so that quorum wouldn't be an issue.

2080
02:15:56,840 --> 02:16:07,240
Then the right amount of discussion would have taken place on this SIP to the level

2081
02:16:07,240 --> 02:16:15,600
that Cyril and to that the Dow team wouldn't have needed to intervene.

2082
02:16:15,600 --> 02:16:22,840
Because even if we had somehow decided amongst our our own San fan community that, yeah,

2083
02:16:22,840 --> 02:16:30,360
actually we don't want this person to be or underneath the the marketing team, there would

2084
02:16:30,360 --> 02:16:34,960
be so much discussion around that that the rationale would be obvious to whereas right

2085
02:16:34,960 --> 02:16:40,520
now there there was discussion, but not near the degree that I think Cyril and the Dow

2086
02:16:40,520 --> 02:16:45,320
team wanted to see and say, all right, this is something that's defensible.

2087
02:16:45,320 --> 02:16:50,680
Well, so here's here's what I think good engagement looks like.

2088
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:58,560
Just to be clear here, if if this is done correctly, then not only would you have discussion

2089
02:16:58,560 --> 02:17:04,200
that says, is this valuable, but you would have also had people say, well, if we can

2090
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:10,240
do it for crafter, then we can do it for this person in Italy.

2091
02:17:10,240 --> 02:17:14,520
And if we can do it for this person in Italy, we can do it for this person in Korea.

2092
02:17:14,520 --> 02:17:20,160
And why do we only care about the English speaking market that should be part of the

2093
02:17:20,160 --> 02:17:21,480
conversation?

2094
02:17:21,480 --> 02:17:28,720
Because these folks need to have as much education and exposure to the product as anyone else.

2095
02:17:28,720 --> 02:17:40,760
And you know, like how much better would your show be if you had a translator for you in

2096
02:17:40,760 --> 02:17:42,800
three different languages?

2097
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:43,800
Excellent.

2098
02:17:43,800 --> 02:17:44,800
Yep.

2099
02:17:44,800 --> 02:17:49,200
Somebody French and Mandarin right away.

2100
02:17:49,200 --> 02:17:53,120
Maybe even Korean or Japanese.

2101
02:17:53,120 --> 02:17:56,480
I've been I've been looking at the metrics as far as who's been looking at the podcast

2102
02:17:56,480 --> 02:17:59,880
and who's been downloading them, which countries they come from.

2103
02:17:59,880 --> 02:18:00,880
Yeah, absolutely.

2104
02:18:00,880 --> 02:18:02,320
I would use that.

2105
02:18:02,320 --> 02:18:05,080
So it's funny that you say that.

2106
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:06,080
Some of those I would agree with.

2107
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:08,400
I would probably disagree with France.

2108
02:18:08,400 --> 02:18:11,520
And I don't know if you've ever seen this, but there's a famous image that they used

2109
02:18:11,520 --> 02:18:12,520
it in.

2110
02:18:12,520 --> 02:18:14,100
I think it was the Second World War.

2111
02:18:14,100 --> 02:18:19,920
It was like a plot map of all the spots where planes had been shot before they came back

2112
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:20,920
and landed.

2113
02:18:20,920 --> 02:18:21,920
Right.

2114
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:28,360
And initially, it was suspected that the planes should be armored additionally in these places

2115
02:18:28,360 --> 02:18:30,180
where they have the bullet holes.

2116
02:18:30,180 --> 02:18:38,120
But the reality was the planes that were shot in the other spots didn't make it back.

2117
02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:41,440
And so your areas of opportunity are places where you're not getting clicked, where you're

2118
02:18:41,440 --> 02:18:43,320
not getting hits right now.

2119
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:44,440
Right.

2120
02:18:44,440 --> 02:18:45,840
That's the language is you need translate.

2121
02:18:45,840 --> 02:18:46,840
It's like a mind blown.

2122
02:18:46,840 --> 02:18:49,080
That's a shower thought moment right there.

2123
02:18:49,080 --> 02:18:50,420
Yeah.

2124
02:18:50,420 --> 02:18:52,520
But that's and again, this is a difference.

2125
02:18:52,520 --> 02:18:57,480
Like when you get, I've again marketing background, like where do I want my exposure to be?

2126
02:18:57,480 --> 02:18:59,320
I want it to be in markets that are hot.

2127
02:18:59,320 --> 02:19:00,600
So yeah, like Chinese.

2128
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:01,600
Great.

2129
02:19:01,600 --> 02:19:02,600
Let's do it.

2130
02:19:02,600 --> 02:19:09,200
You know, Korea, you know that there's a big put and this is where the collaboration with

2131
02:19:09,200 --> 02:19:15,500
the sandbox internally can be useful to the Dow in the, you know, why should a community

2132
02:19:15,500 --> 02:19:19,520
manager for the Dow be integrated with the marketing conversation with the sandbox?

2133
02:19:19,520 --> 02:19:25,040
Well, if we know there's going to be a season of content event that's exclusive to Korea

2134
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:30,800
or we know that Seb is going to go to a conference in Turkey tomorrow, that should be part of

2135
02:19:30,800 --> 02:19:32,000
this conversation.

2136
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:35,960
Get those people attached and engaged when they're excited and fresh.

2137
02:19:35,960 --> 02:19:41,680
Get new people in, you know, it's, it can make a big difference.

2138
02:19:41,680 --> 02:19:43,060
But anyway, yeah.

2139
02:19:43,060 --> 02:19:50,840
So multilingual again should have been part of, if you're really engaged, if your community

2140
02:19:50,840 --> 02:19:55,080
actually cares about your Dow, is they would be bringing up things that you wouldn't even

2141
02:19:55,080 --> 02:19:56,080
think would be a problem.

2142
02:19:56,080 --> 02:19:58,400
Cause you'd be like, crafters, great crafters getting views.

2143
02:19:58,400 --> 02:20:03,960
And they'd be like, I know this guy over here is getting 80 views and crafters getting 20.

2144
02:20:03,960 --> 02:20:04,960
You know what I mean?

2145
02:20:04,960 --> 02:20:06,720
Why not this guy out of China?

2146
02:20:06,720 --> 02:20:09,280
No, that's yeah, that's awesome.

2147
02:20:09,280 --> 02:20:15,120
Autism of the crowd, there's many different ways to, to capture that.

2148
02:20:15,120 --> 02:20:16,120
That makes sense.

2149
02:20:16,120 --> 02:20:18,280
I get what you're saying there.

2150
02:20:18,280 --> 02:20:23,160
I've chose, I chose France because that's where the Dow, the sandbox team is.

2151
02:20:23,160 --> 02:20:29,240
So there's, there's a certain level of incumbency that I'm, I'm, I'm giving there, but yeah.

2152
02:20:29,240 --> 02:20:31,920
But they don't need it in French.

2153
02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:35,840
If you're doing business, you're speaking English for the most part.

2154
02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:36,840
Yeah.

2155
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:42,480
And also the UN, the two language of the UN is English and French.

2156
02:20:42,480 --> 02:20:44,680
So you know what?

2157
02:20:44,680 --> 02:20:45,680
Yeah.

2158
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:46,680
Makes sense.

2159
02:20:46,680 --> 02:20:47,680
Point taken.

2160
02:20:47,680 --> 02:20:48,680
Point taken.

2161
02:20:48,680 --> 02:20:49,680
Okay.

2162
02:20:49,680 --> 02:20:52,040
I, so I think, I think I'm good with that for now.

2163
02:20:52,040 --> 02:20:58,120
If I, if, if I start seeing them do this six months from now, I'm going to be a lot less

2164
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:01,000
charitable in my interpretation of that.

2165
02:21:01,000 --> 02:21:02,000
I think.

2166
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:15,480
And I am very wary of the administrative team for the Dow disrupting the voting process

2167
02:21:15,480 --> 02:21:17,720
of the Dow.

2168
02:21:17,720 --> 02:21:23,520
Anything that does that to me is you need to be, you need to be tread very carefully.

2169
02:21:23,520 --> 02:21:28,260
You are not a substitute for the voting community at all.

2170
02:21:28,260 --> 02:21:38,880
So this to me, the, the, the locking of the thread that to me was, yeah, that, that to

2171
02:21:38,880 --> 02:21:41,480
me was an eyebrow razor.

2172
02:21:41,480 --> 02:21:46,720
But the fact that serial went into explanation when we opened up a thread in the help desk

2173
02:21:46,720 --> 02:21:51,460
to say, Hey, can you please provide some context here or reopen it?

2174
02:21:51,460 --> 02:21:54,840
That to me was exactly what I would want it to see.

2175
02:21:54,840 --> 02:21:56,160
There's rationale there.

2176
02:21:56,160 --> 02:22:03,560
The rationale can be reasonably construed for now that the lack of education and engagement

2177
02:22:03,560 --> 02:22:08,720
that we're seeing from the Dow community is in some way forcing the hand of the Dow team

2178
02:22:08,720 --> 02:22:15,400
to provide some sort of substitution, no substance, some sort of substance there to compensate

2179
02:22:15,400 --> 02:22:22,440
for the absence of the conversations that would take place that would help reg self-regulate

2180
02:22:22,440 --> 02:22:23,440
the Dow.

2181
02:22:23,440 --> 02:22:24,440
All right.

2182
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:25,440
All right.

2183
02:22:25,440 --> 02:22:31,520
No checks for now.

2184
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:36,680
I'm telling you, I am, I will be the first and the loudest to be against that.

2185
02:22:36,680 --> 02:22:40,800
If I hear that happening over an extended period of time.

2186
02:22:40,800 --> 02:22:41,800
Yeah.

2187
02:22:41,800 --> 02:22:46,080
And I think again, that makes sense is that would, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy,

2188
02:22:46,080 --> 02:22:47,080
right?

2189
02:22:47,080 --> 02:22:50,520
It's when your engagement is down, well, there goes your job.

2190
02:22:50,520 --> 02:22:51,520
You know what I mean?

2191
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:56,200
Like as someone who's administrating this space, if the engagement is down in your space

2192
02:22:56,200 --> 02:23:02,480
while you are in the administration, you are doing a poor quality job and it will be eliminated

2193
02:23:02,480 --> 02:23:06,760
because it's a limited funding mechanism.

2194
02:23:06,760 --> 02:23:10,580
If people don't care about the Dow, they're not going to potentially vote to approve new

2195
02:23:10,580 --> 02:23:14,300
financing for the Dow.

2196
02:23:14,300 --> 02:23:18,520
We all had to vote for SIP 1, SIP 2, SIP 3.

2197
02:23:18,520 --> 02:23:26,800
What happens when SIP, you know, 85 is year two Dow financing and nobody votes.

2198
02:23:26,800 --> 02:23:27,800
You know what I mean?

2199
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:30,500
Like you're just not getting paid and you'd be out of a job.

2200
02:23:30,500 --> 02:23:36,620
So I believe that the people who are administrating this space are financially incentivized to

2201
02:23:36,620 --> 02:23:41,800
work with the community to increase that engagement.

2202
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:47,480
I'm still uncertain about that hope, but I'm glad I take your hope and I will embody it

2203
02:23:47,480 --> 02:23:48,480
for now.

2204
02:23:48,480 --> 02:23:51,080
There's too many things bouncing around.

2205
02:23:51,080 --> 02:23:55,960
My own experiences being a SIP author and all of the discussions going on.

2206
02:23:55,960 --> 02:24:03,060
I don't fully trust my experience to land on the reasonable approach that you've articulated

2207
02:24:03,060 --> 02:24:04,060
thus far.

2208
02:24:04,060 --> 02:24:06,680
And to me, that makes sense what you're saying.

2209
02:24:06,680 --> 02:24:09,240
I want to give them the benefit of the Dow.

2210
02:24:09,240 --> 02:24:12,400
It's colored by real time discussions, right?

2211
02:24:12,400 --> 02:24:15,360
Because it feels personal.

2212
02:24:15,360 --> 02:24:17,980
Like they're saying my SIP shouldn't be there.

2213
02:24:17,980 --> 02:24:18,980
Like why?

2214
02:24:18,980 --> 02:24:20,040
Why is that?

2215
02:24:20,040 --> 02:24:21,200
The Dow should be deciding that.

2216
02:24:21,200 --> 02:24:27,360
And then there's just, but I get the Dow team is trying their very best and I'm actually

2217
02:24:27,360 --> 02:24:32,840
super happy with the discussions that are taking place.

2218
02:24:32,840 --> 02:24:38,360
They're not just coming out and saying, no, you're not going to get that SIP out there.

2219
02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:40,280
They're saying this is our approach.

2220
02:24:40,280 --> 02:24:41,620
What are your thoughts?

2221
02:24:41,620 --> 02:24:43,240
They're just continuing that.

2222
02:24:43,240 --> 02:24:46,360
Like every time I say yes, but I disagree here and there.

2223
02:24:46,360 --> 02:24:47,960
Like, well, here's our approach.

2224
02:24:47,960 --> 02:24:48,960
What do you think of that?

2225
02:24:48,960 --> 02:24:50,640
That's just, it's extended.

2226
02:24:50,640 --> 02:24:54,420
And I'm happy that the discussion is taking place.

2227
02:24:54,420 --> 02:24:59,700
So there, right there, I'm going to be doing my own podcast on this one where I go into

2228
02:24:59,700 --> 02:25:02,760
depth about the process and everything else.

2229
02:25:02,760 --> 02:25:06,120
And I'm just trying to make sure I do it in a responsible way.

2230
02:25:06,120 --> 02:25:11,200
It's not about like airing all the dirty laundry and name calling, all that sort of stuff.

2231
02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:12,680
Not what that's about.

2232
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:19,320
But it needs to be clear that if you submit a SIP, don't expect it to just end up in special

2233
02:25:19,320 --> 02:25:21,640
counsel's hands.

2234
02:25:21,640 --> 02:25:25,600
Some of mine are two, three months now and engagement.

2235
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:32,440
And this is because this is with a professional team where it's been my career to write proposals

2236
02:25:32,440 --> 02:25:34,000
and negotiate contracts.

2237
02:25:34,000 --> 02:25:38,400
And even I'm encountering these sorts of extended challenges.

2238
02:25:38,400 --> 02:25:44,160
So good times.

2239
02:25:44,160 --> 02:25:47,000
I'm happy for the process.

2240
02:25:47,000 --> 02:25:49,440
I'll stop in there.

2241
02:25:49,440 --> 02:25:52,160
Case study C. Oh darn it.

2242
02:25:52,160 --> 02:25:55,320
Case study C was blockchain events 2024.

2243
02:25:55,320 --> 02:26:00,320
This one was one of the past three that did not make quorum and it failed.

2244
02:26:00,320 --> 02:26:01,320
All right.

2245
02:26:01,320 --> 02:26:05,080
So I interviewed chips from hermit crab studio.

2246
02:26:05,080 --> 02:26:10,660
He was the one who graciously gave me the time to explain their point of view.

2247
02:26:10,660 --> 02:26:14,920
But this was actually a collection of many different studios, all wanting to be separately

2248
02:26:14,920 --> 02:26:17,360
funded by the Dow to go to different events.

2249
02:26:17,360 --> 02:26:24,720
So Singapore, when I just happened last week or two, there was a big blockchain one in

2250
02:26:24,720 --> 02:26:25,800
Brazil.

2251
02:26:25,800 --> 02:26:28,600
There were others in like one Hong Kong.

2252
02:26:28,600 --> 02:26:31,760
So there were like six different events that were being requested.

2253
02:26:31,760 --> 02:26:37,600
And chips came on to explain hermit crab studios position, couldn't speak for the rest of them,

2254
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:40,880
but could speak for them at least.

2255
02:26:40,880 --> 02:26:46,720
And originally the the sip did not include much Dow education.

2256
02:26:46,720 --> 02:26:52,240
They were going to have the normal sandbox game where you could come play it on a on

2257
02:26:52,240 --> 02:26:53,240
a PC.

2258
02:26:53,240 --> 02:26:56,960
And then they have all the posters and this is what sandbox is.

2259
02:26:56,960 --> 02:27:00,400
And this is what hermit crab studio is doing within that all that.

2260
02:27:00,400 --> 02:27:08,040
And then about midway through it, chips asked me, but no, one of my questions was, that's

2261
02:27:08,040 --> 02:27:09,040
right.

2262
02:27:09,040 --> 02:27:13,440
I remember now who the source of that, if that person would like to self identify themselves,

2263
02:27:13,440 --> 02:27:14,440
they can.

2264
02:27:14,440 --> 02:27:20,600
But the question was that what is this doing for the Dow?

2265
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:22,840
And would there be me?

2266
02:27:22,840 --> 02:27:24,840
What was that?

2267
02:27:24,840 --> 02:27:26,800
I'm pretty sure that was also me.

2268
02:27:26,800 --> 02:27:28,280
That was exactly you.

2269
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:29,280
Yeah.

2270
02:27:29,280 --> 02:27:35,040
So the person who recommended that question is the person that I'm talking to right now

2271
02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:36,480
was Joseph.

2272
02:27:36,480 --> 02:27:38,360
And what was that?

2273
02:27:38,360 --> 02:27:39,560
What was that question?

2274
02:27:39,560 --> 02:27:42,560
Let's look it up.

2275
02:27:42,560 --> 02:27:44,600
Right.

2276
02:27:44,600 --> 02:27:46,600
So there it was.

2277
02:27:46,600 --> 02:27:48,000
Here it was right there.

2278
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:53,760
How much is your attendance at these events centered around the Dow versus the sandbox

2279
02:27:53,760 --> 02:27:54,760
or your studio?

2280
02:27:54,760 --> 02:27:55,760
Right.

2281
02:27:55,760 --> 02:28:01,680
So the question at the tart was, if the Dow funds you, how much are you going to be proclaiming

2282
02:28:01,680 --> 02:28:04,440
your own hermit crab studio stuff?

2283
02:28:04,440 --> 02:28:07,000
How much is it going to be sandbox stuff?

2284
02:28:07,000 --> 02:28:08,840
How much is it going to be the Dow?

2285
02:28:08,840 --> 02:28:13,320
And to Chip's credit here, Chip said, well, we didn't originally envision it to be the

2286
02:28:13,320 --> 02:28:18,840
Dow, but I'm willing to take suggestions on how we can do that.

2287
02:28:18,840 --> 02:28:19,840
Right.

2288
02:28:19,840 --> 02:28:22,440
So this is this is right over to the right here.

2289
02:28:22,440 --> 02:28:23,440
That's chips talking about.

2290
02:28:23,440 --> 02:28:24,440
And he's receiving.

2291
02:28:24,440 --> 02:28:26,400
He just asked me, what do you think?

2292
02:28:26,400 --> 02:28:30,000
I would love to try and make this because it's not just I'm still trying to figure this

2293
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:33,040
out as a business development for hermit crab studio.

2294
02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:35,720
And then I proceeded to give him my feedback.

2295
02:28:35,720 --> 02:28:37,400
I didn't expect him to ask me that.

2296
02:28:37,400 --> 02:28:40,320
Actually, I wasn't prepared for the question.

2297
02:28:40,320 --> 02:28:45,040
So then over the course of the interview, basically bore out that.

2298
02:28:45,040 --> 02:28:50,880
Well, if you were to take things that are already poster ready on the sandbox, Dow's

2299
02:28:50,880 --> 02:28:56,240
website, like the vision, like some of those stuff, you can just poster it out and create

2300
02:28:56,240 --> 02:29:00,840
big old posters like right next to the sandbox to say, here's what the sandbox is.

2301
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:02,400
Here's what the Dow is.

2302
02:29:02,400 --> 02:29:03,640
Here's how much money the Dow has.

2303
02:29:03,640 --> 02:29:05,300
And here's the voting process.

2304
02:29:05,300 --> 02:29:06,520
You want to submit a SIP.

2305
02:29:06,520 --> 02:29:07,520
Here it is.

2306
02:29:07,520 --> 02:29:12,240
The Dow has a website that makes this super easy.

2307
02:29:12,240 --> 02:29:17,200
Like under vision right here under vision is vision number one, one community, many

2308
02:29:17,200 --> 02:29:18,200
parts.

2309
02:29:18,200 --> 02:29:23,480
Number two, working with impact empowerment stuff that looks pretty posterable, right?

2310
02:29:23,480 --> 02:29:26,320
Marketing material and under the about section.

2311
02:29:26,320 --> 02:29:27,320
Here's the roadmap.

2312
02:29:27,320 --> 02:29:30,580
Nice, easy stuff you can blow up on a poster.

2313
02:29:30,580 --> 02:29:35,800
So I basically recommended if you were to create some marketing material that equaled

2314
02:29:35,800 --> 02:29:40,680
the marketing material you did for the sandbox, then I think the Dow would feel acknowledged.

2315
02:29:40,680 --> 02:29:41,680
Right.

2316
02:29:41,680 --> 02:29:46,880
So that was my opinion based on the real time feedback.

2317
02:29:46,880 --> 02:29:56,960
So, case study C, based on the blockchain events and my interview with with chips on

2318
02:29:56,960 --> 02:30:05,880
how much should the money given to you be about the Dow and it's coming from the Dow.

2319
02:30:05,880 --> 02:30:14,360
My response was make easily discernible material that you would bring for the sandbox, but

2320
02:30:14,360 --> 02:30:15,360
make it Dow centric.

2321
02:30:15,360 --> 02:30:19,320
So it doesn't have to be all of it, but I think I said like 50% of it.

2322
02:30:19,320 --> 02:30:23,160
Like if you have a poster for the sandbox, make a poster for the Dow and make it one

2323
02:30:23,160 --> 02:30:29,680
of these these web web pages that's very easy to blow up on a poster.

2324
02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:30,680
Right.

2325
02:30:30,680 --> 02:30:36,200
Then you've acknowledged that would be my perspective on how much should should this

2326
02:30:36,200 --> 02:30:37,200
be about the Dow.

2327
02:30:37,200 --> 02:30:40,120
Joseph, what do you think?

2328
02:30:40,120 --> 02:30:41,120
Okay.

2329
02:30:41,120 --> 02:30:45,560
So I'm just running some quick numbers, right?

2330
02:30:45,560 --> 02:30:47,200
That's always good.

2331
02:30:47,200 --> 02:30:48,960
I always like that intro.

2332
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:51,080
We talked about crafter, right?

2333
02:30:51,080 --> 02:30:52,080
We talked about crafter.

2334
02:30:52,080 --> 02:30:57,160
We talked about what's the value proposition of crafter if crafter is going to be a streamer.

2335
02:30:57,160 --> 02:31:02,160
So let's talk about just just the first three because I just popped them out real quick.

2336
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:05,120
We're in we're in this zip.

2337
02:31:05,120 --> 02:31:07,440
It talks about Singapore event.

2338
02:31:07,440 --> 02:31:09,280
Yeah.

2339
02:31:09,280 --> 02:31:18,280
We've got a thousand participants expected to go to Nova Smobler Studios.

2340
02:31:18,280 --> 02:31:19,760
Okay.

2341
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:25,000
They're going to create some awareness on the Dow with that.

2342
02:31:25,000 --> 02:31:26,000
That's cool.

2343
02:31:26,000 --> 02:31:33,720
$8,000 for event number one for a thousand people to show up.

2344
02:31:33,720 --> 02:31:41,120
That's $8 per person to talk about the Dow.

2345
02:31:41,120 --> 02:31:48,800
Can the Dow get people attached for less than $8 per person?

2346
02:31:48,800 --> 02:31:50,400
Absolutely.

2347
02:31:50,400 --> 02:31:55,160
If they just went through crafter, they're getting it for $1.50.

2348
02:31:55,160 --> 02:32:01,640
You know, see how this isn't tracking a little bit on each other.

2349
02:32:01,640 --> 02:32:02,640
Right.

2350
02:32:02,640 --> 02:32:07,720
Engagement number two, the sandbox official side event estimating.

2351
02:32:07,720 --> 02:32:12,280
Let's be graceful and say the top end of their estimate of 300 people show up to an official

2352
02:32:12,280 --> 02:32:13,920
sandbox side event.

2353
02:32:13,920 --> 02:32:21,560
$12,000 for hosting cost $40 per person to show up.

2354
02:32:21,560 --> 02:32:25,560
You know how many more people you could get to show up to this Dow and this platform if

2355
02:32:25,560 --> 02:32:28,400
you just handed them $40 worth of sand.

2356
02:32:28,400 --> 02:32:29,400
They stay here forever.

2357
02:32:29,400 --> 02:32:33,680
Out of the Philippines, out of India, just give them $40.

2358
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:34,680
Make decisions.

2359
02:32:34,680 --> 02:32:37,320
They would be instant San Fam voters too.

2360
02:32:37,320 --> 02:32:38,320
Forever.

2361
02:32:38,320 --> 02:32:39,320
Yeah.

2362
02:32:39,320 --> 02:32:40,320
They'd never leave.

2363
02:32:40,320 --> 02:32:41,320
Wow.

2364
02:32:41,320 --> 02:32:42,320
You changed my life.

2365
02:32:42,320 --> 02:32:43,320
They sold half of it.

2366
02:32:43,320 --> 02:32:44,320
Whatever they pay in Vietnam.

2367
02:32:44,320 --> 02:32:48,120
$20 goes a couple of weeks of eating.

2368
02:32:48,120 --> 02:32:49,480
Just hand them money.

2369
02:32:49,480 --> 02:32:50,480
You know what I mean?

2370
02:32:50,480 --> 02:32:51,560
We don't have to do this.

2371
02:32:51,560 --> 02:32:52,560
I think.

2372
02:32:52,560 --> 02:32:54,760
I think it's a lot is all I'm saying.

2373
02:32:54,760 --> 02:32:55,760
It's fine.

2374
02:32:55,760 --> 02:32:56,760
It's cool.

2375
02:32:56,760 --> 02:32:57,760
Okay.

2376
02:32:57,760 --> 02:33:04,160
Hong Kong, Blocktober, $20,000 request for roughly a thousand participants.

2377
02:33:04,160 --> 02:33:07,600
Again, $20 per engagement.

2378
02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:09,200
And these aren't attachments.

2379
02:33:09,200 --> 02:33:13,920
And that's another thing that's important in marketing is attachment rate is roughly

2380
02:33:13,920 --> 02:33:22,760
like an engagement is to say you saw it and you know, 10 out of every hundred engagements,

2381
02:33:22,760 --> 02:33:26,560
you know, maybe they actually pay attention to it.

2382
02:33:26,560 --> 02:33:33,680
One out of every hundred clicks through and of those, maybe one out of 10 of those stays

2383
02:33:33,680 --> 02:33:35,760
for a long time.

2384
02:33:35,760 --> 02:33:40,440
And your retention is a different metric that we can't track with all this money that the

2385
02:33:40,440 --> 02:33:44,760
Dow would have potentially spent on this venture.

2386
02:33:44,760 --> 02:33:49,480
Now why did they come up with this idea?

2387
02:33:49,480 --> 02:33:54,800
Well, because almost every single studio, including the one that you talk to, has been

2388
02:33:54,800 --> 02:34:02,240
funded to this degree by the sandbox game directly in the past to represent the sandbox

2389
02:34:02,240 --> 02:34:05,680
as a community developer because they're just good devs, right?

2390
02:34:05,680 --> 02:34:07,080
They're good devs.

2391
02:34:07,080 --> 02:34:09,240
They know how to talk to these folks.

2392
02:34:09,240 --> 02:34:12,200
They're good representatives in the community.

2393
02:34:12,200 --> 02:34:20,780
But I happen to believe that in literally every one of these examples, the value proposition

2394
02:34:20,780 --> 02:34:28,600
isn't there because what you usually do as a business when you go out to these events

2395
02:34:28,600 --> 02:34:31,400
is you don't just stand there in the booth.

2396
02:34:31,400 --> 02:34:39,320
Yes, of course you go to the booth, but most often you have someone in the booth while

2397
02:34:39,320 --> 02:34:46,640
you also have press media, while you've spent time outside of the event, soliciting yourself

2398
02:34:46,640 --> 02:34:52,140
so that these guys can go out and write a story on a website.

2399
02:34:52,140 --> 02:34:54,420
And that's what you pay the $40 for.

2400
02:34:54,420 --> 02:35:00,220
You don't pay the $40 per person usually to get the general consumer to pay attention.

2401
02:35:00,220 --> 02:35:07,420
You spend $40 to get the journalist to write to their hundred thousand person audience,

2402
02:35:07,420 --> 02:35:10,480
to write to their multi-million person audience.

2403
02:35:10,480 --> 02:35:14,000
And that's where you get value out of a conference.

2404
02:35:14,000 --> 02:35:19,160
Most of the time you have to go beyond the show floor.

2405
02:35:19,160 --> 02:35:21,760
Everyone just happens to also be at the show floor.

2406
02:35:21,760 --> 02:35:23,400
Exposure on a grander scale.

2407
02:35:23,400 --> 02:35:24,880
Yeah, absolutely.

2408
02:35:24,880 --> 02:35:30,200
You know, like, let's talk about, I have press media badges in a box somewhere around here.

2409
02:35:30,200 --> 02:35:32,440
I've done it.

2410
02:35:32,440 --> 02:35:35,980
Penny Arcade Expo, it's a local one here in Seattle, PAX.

2411
02:35:35,980 --> 02:35:38,580
Some people know it.

2412
02:35:38,580 --> 02:35:43,240
And at that expo when I went as press media, there was no presence for Atari on the show

2413
02:35:43,240 --> 02:35:45,440
floor at all.

2414
02:35:45,440 --> 02:35:52,560
But I had a meeting with Atari in a hotel three blocks down to write the articles about

2415
02:35:52,560 --> 02:35:56,920
what they are making under NDA to be released on such a day.

2416
02:35:56,920 --> 02:35:57,920
You know what I mean?

2417
02:35:57,920 --> 02:36:04,720
So, fun fact, in a previous life, I used to write articles for a game as well.

2418
02:36:04,720 --> 02:36:06,780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2419
02:36:06,780 --> 02:36:09,240
So we have, you know, we have that tracking.

2420
02:36:09,240 --> 02:36:16,240
I think I've written 40 articles that have appeared in gaming sites.

2421
02:36:16,240 --> 02:36:17,240
That's cool.

2422
02:36:17,240 --> 02:36:18,240
Hell yeah.

2423
02:36:18,240 --> 02:36:19,320
Mostly for Planetside too.

2424
02:36:19,320 --> 02:36:20,320
But yeah, that, that.

2425
02:36:20,320 --> 02:36:21,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2426
02:36:21,320 --> 02:36:22,320
Yeah.

2427
02:36:22,320 --> 02:36:26,600
Well, the anyway, I understand what you're saying, right?

2428
02:36:26,600 --> 02:36:27,760
That's sort of what we're missing.

2429
02:36:27,760 --> 02:36:31,680
That's a component of what we're missing is on this pitch.

2430
02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:36,960
It's saying, cool, we've got number five, Meme Fest.

2431
02:36:36,960 --> 02:36:41,520
You expect to have a thousand people visit the booth, but somehow also at the exact same

2432
02:36:41,520 --> 02:36:45,000
time, all of those thousand are new sand holders.

2433
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:47,080
This is on number five.

2434
02:36:47,080 --> 02:36:50,900
As like literally the only bullet point, their expected outcome is having a thousand people

2435
02:36:50,900 --> 02:36:52,800
show up and a thousand people care.

2436
02:36:52,800 --> 02:36:58,400
And anybody who's ever done any type of marketing knows that's literally not the case.

2437
02:36:58,400 --> 02:37:02,680
You again, 99 of those people don't give a damn.

2438
02:37:02,680 --> 02:37:05,160
And 10 people out of that thousand will care.

2439
02:37:05,160 --> 02:37:08,440
And then, you know, how much, how much can you do from there?

2440
02:37:08,440 --> 02:37:13,240
So you've got to get the word out to more people in a better and wider position.

2441
02:37:13,240 --> 02:37:17,840
If you want to have a, I think, do you want to have a Dow pitch pass?

2442
02:37:17,840 --> 02:37:21,760
That said, you got 75%.

2443
02:37:21,760 --> 02:37:22,760
Yes.

2444
02:37:22,760 --> 02:37:29,600
So obviously there's, there's a, there's, I again would defer this down to like the

2445
02:37:29,600 --> 02:37:35,480
education component of the Dow that I would like to see improved is getting people to

2446
02:37:35,480 --> 02:37:40,840
better understand how to stretch their budget because the Dow budget isn't that much.

2447
02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:41,840
And it's running out.

2448
02:37:41,840 --> 02:37:44,400
Like you said, what 12% already spent, right?

2449
02:37:44,400 --> 02:37:46,920
15 as of the past two sips.

2450
02:37:46,920 --> 02:37:47,920
Yeah.

2451
02:37:47,920 --> 02:37:51,400
So 15% of this budget is gone already.

2452
02:37:51,400 --> 02:37:57,000
And it's only been here for, you know, a couple of months and a half months.

2453
02:37:57,000 --> 02:37:59,440
We don't know that it gets refunded.

2454
02:37:59,440 --> 02:38:01,720
We don't know that these get funded.

2455
02:38:01,720 --> 02:38:08,280
So the goal should be when we're thinking about which sips we're going to pass that

2456
02:38:08,280 --> 02:38:13,280
we actually generate revenue towards the Dow in the long term.

2457
02:38:13,280 --> 02:38:14,760
Which is one of my sips.

2458
02:38:14,760 --> 02:38:21,960
Because if you don't generate revenue towards the Dow, then the Dow dies.

2459
02:38:21,960 --> 02:38:23,440
And what are we doing here?

2460
02:38:23,440 --> 02:38:27,600
If we don't generate revenue towards the sandbox as a platform, then the platform dies.

2461
02:38:27,600 --> 02:38:29,640
And what are we doing here, right?

2462
02:38:29,640 --> 02:38:35,680
So we should be using our voting power to maintain the health and welfare of this platform

2463
02:38:35,680 --> 02:38:42,720
and not just use the voting power to take money and go do cool stuff.

2464
02:38:42,720 --> 02:38:51,080
And I don't mean to like dilute that sips down to that, but that's what it ends up being

2465
02:38:51,080 --> 02:38:53,240
is most of the money is facilitated.

2466
02:38:53,240 --> 02:39:00,880
Like one of them was like by a bunch of ASUS, ROG handhelds and AI laptops, right?

2467
02:39:00,880 --> 02:39:05,340
But the sandbox already goes to events and already has those.

2468
02:39:05,340 --> 02:39:09,240
So the sandbox doesn't need the Dow to do that.

2469
02:39:09,240 --> 02:39:10,240
That was for Singapore.

2470
02:39:10,240 --> 02:39:11,240
Yeah, that was for Singapore.

2471
02:39:11,240 --> 02:39:17,240
Buy Republic of Gaming handheld devices and ASUS AI laptops for attendees.

2472
02:39:17,240 --> 02:39:18,240
Yep.

2473
02:39:18,240 --> 02:39:19,240
Got it.

2474
02:39:19,240 --> 02:39:20,240
Yep.

2475
02:39:20,240 --> 02:39:28,680
And it's one of those things where you don't want, again, you don't want to fund, I think,

2476
02:39:28,680 --> 02:39:34,840
projects that are just going to take away and not contribute enough to recoup that expense.

2477
02:39:34,840 --> 02:39:44,480
So if I'm spending overall, you know, $94,500, a marketing budget generally should be like

2478
02:39:44,480 --> 02:39:54,880
five to 10% of your company in terms of like expense, which means that this event, if it's

2479
02:39:54,880 --> 02:40:02,480
successful, should generate net revenues toward the sandbox or in this case, the Dow of between

2480
02:40:02,480 --> 02:40:09,280
them, a million to $2 million.

2481
02:40:09,280 --> 02:40:19,280
And do you believe, right, that your however, let me see, a thousand participants, 1300,

2482
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:30,280
2000, let's say 3000, because that one doesn't have a number, 4000, 5000.

2483
02:40:30,280 --> 02:40:37,960
Yeah, 5000 estimated, 5000 estimated people are supposed to generate a revenue of 12 million

2484
02:40:37,960 --> 02:40:42,400
or $2 million towards the Dow potentially or the ecosystem in order for that to be valuable

2485
02:40:42,400 --> 02:40:44,640
in the traditional marketing stance.

2486
02:40:44,640 --> 02:40:48,040
So I don't, I personally don't think that that would happen if they don't have the outreach

2487
02:40:48,040 --> 02:40:52,840
where they get with every journalist in the region and, you know, get that out there.

2488
02:40:52,840 --> 02:40:55,360
But that's an aside.

2489
02:40:55,360 --> 02:41:02,840
I'm going to be doing a podcast in probably the next few weeks with, it's named Derek.

2490
02:41:02,840 --> 02:41:05,000
You and him are probably get along very, very well.

2491
02:41:05,000 --> 02:41:08,560
You are extremely analytically driven.

2492
02:41:08,560 --> 02:41:13,800
Derek is from the eight point Dow and he's pretty much like the math genius.

2493
02:41:13,800 --> 02:41:19,160
So when I do that, I think, I think I'll send you the link because I think you would be

2494
02:41:19,160 --> 02:41:27,400
very impressed with the way he goes about quantifying eight point Dow impacts.

2495
02:41:27,400 --> 02:41:28,400
Yeah.

2496
02:41:28,400 --> 02:41:29,400
Yeah.

2497
02:41:29,400 --> 02:41:30,400
Sure.

2498
02:41:30,400 --> 02:41:31,400
Yeah.

2499
02:41:31,400 --> 02:41:32,400
That was fun.

2500
02:41:32,400 --> 02:41:39,480
I was just yesterday on BOTB in the Twitter space, listening to him explain the mathematics

2501
02:41:39,480 --> 02:41:44,080
behind how the eight point Dow is as of this moment operating in the negative.

2502
02:41:44,080 --> 02:41:45,320
Yep.

2503
02:41:45,320 --> 02:41:49,080
And he was, he was drawing from the quarterly reports and all sorts of stuff.

2504
02:41:49,080 --> 02:41:52,800
And I was kind of tracking to that because the numbers were just too lopsided on the

2505
02:41:52,800 --> 02:41:58,080
out, not enough end, but he quantified it yesterday and no uncertain terms.

2506
02:41:58,080 --> 02:41:59,080
Yeah.

2507
02:41:59,080 --> 02:42:02,000
And again, the question kind of comes in.

2508
02:42:02,000 --> 02:42:06,800
I'm sure Derek's answering it in ape, but if he's not quantifying it in ape and he's

2509
02:42:06,800 --> 02:42:09,480
quantifying it in US dollars, then that's a different dynamic.

2510
02:42:09,480 --> 02:42:10,960
He's quantifying an ape.

2511
02:42:10,960 --> 02:42:11,960
Yeah.

2512
02:42:11,960 --> 02:42:13,960
See, that's no way get out of here.

2513
02:42:13,960 --> 02:42:14,960
Right.

2514
02:42:14,960 --> 02:42:21,080
Like it's got to be net even if you're not generating that even ratio that you're obviously

2515
02:42:21,080 --> 02:42:23,320
always going to have some ventures that lose money.

2516
02:42:23,320 --> 02:42:24,320
Right.

2517
02:42:24,320 --> 02:42:29,640
But generally speaking, this place here is going to have to generate an even number of

2518
02:42:29,640 --> 02:42:30,960
sand as it outputs.

2519
02:42:30,960 --> 02:42:35,480
Otherwise it's not going to work because it won't be able to be here.

2520
02:42:35,480 --> 02:42:39,680
Despite the fact that it's decentralized, it is going to have to operate as a business

2521
02:42:39,680 --> 02:42:40,680
in order to succeed.

2522
02:42:40,680 --> 02:42:46,120
And so you have to give something people find valuable in order to receive your revenue

2523
02:42:46,120 --> 02:42:47,560
stream.

2524
02:42:47,560 --> 02:42:49,040
Yeah.

2525
02:42:49,040 --> 02:42:50,040
I have two.

2526
02:42:50,040 --> 02:42:55,200
So my two flagship steps right now, one is sando and the second one is the Dow revenue

2527
02:42:55,200 --> 02:42:56,880
option study.

2528
02:42:56,880 --> 02:43:03,640
So I have on tap some people who are highly, highly specialized and trained in this sort

2529
02:43:03,640 --> 02:43:12,800
of thing to give us some actionable plans for how the Dow can earn revenue.

2530
02:43:12,800 --> 02:43:15,440
And it's pulling a whole bunch of different people.

2531
02:43:15,440 --> 02:43:19,880
But right now it's still going back and forth with the Dow team.

2532
02:43:19,880 --> 02:43:26,000
But I took that page, that lesson came from what I saw in the 8-point Dow going on right

2533
02:43:26,000 --> 02:43:27,000
now.

2534
02:43:27,000 --> 02:43:32,240
Like if we do not come up with the strategy to bring in more than we're outputting, we

2535
02:43:32,240 --> 02:43:36,760
are going to end up in the same position they are and it's going to hurt.

2536
02:43:36,760 --> 02:43:39,160
It's going to be embarrassing and painful.

2537
02:43:39,160 --> 02:43:44,680
We might as well just fix it now while we still have the benefit of sandbox giving us

2538
02:43:44,680 --> 02:43:46,800
a commitment to yearly budget.

2539
02:43:46,800 --> 02:43:49,800
You need to figure it out right now.

2540
02:43:49,800 --> 02:43:54,600
Not two years down the line when we see money flying out the door or sand flying out the

2541
02:43:54,600 --> 02:43:55,600
door.

2542
02:43:55,600 --> 02:43:58,000
So do it now.

2543
02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:02,360
Engage the industry-wide specialists who know this stuff already and then throw in some

2544
02:44:02,360 --> 02:44:05,720
new stuff like tokenomics or blockchain specialists.

2545
02:44:05,720 --> 02:44:11,320
But give them business finance people, economists, people who know traditional financing and

2546
02:44:11,320 --> 02:44:13,920
then Web 3 layer on that.

2547
02:44:13,920 --> 02:44:17,400
And then you have a solid diversified revenue plan.

2548
02:44:17,400 --> 02:44:18,400
Execute it through SIPs.

2549
02:44:18,400 --> 02:44:19,400
Boom.

2550
02:44:19,400 --> 02:44:22,200
See how start measuring performance after that.

2551
02:44:22,200 --> 02:44:27,800
But anyways, we'll see if the community agrees with me.

2552
02:44:27,800 --> 02:44:32,160
Just as a train coming, you either prepare now or you get prepared later when it hits

2553
02:44:32,160 --> 02:44:35,160
you in the face.

2554
02:44:35,160 --> 02:44:37,040
Cool.

2555
02:44:37,040 --> 02:44:47,440
So I think what I hear you say is for with my underlined portion or die education.

2556
02:44:47,440 --> 02:44:48,560
All right.

2557
02:44:48,560 --> 02:44:53,000
So whereas I said I think it's fine as long as they create marketing posters and impact

2558
02:44:53,000 --> 02:44:55,220
equal the sandbox game.

2559
02:44:55,220 --> 02:45:01,440
You're just not seeing the mathematics equal out there for paying too much or too little

2560
02:45:01,440 --> 02:45:04,960
of a gain or that Dow money to make sense.

2561
02:45:04,960 --> 02:45:08,840
I'll give you another example.

2562
02:45:08,840 --> 02:45:09,840
New York City 2022.

2563
02:45:09,840 --> 02:45:10,840
Huddl Hill was there.

2564
02:45:10,840 --> 02:45:14,640
Huddl Hill and I have a great story in this event.

2565
02:45:14,640 --> 02:45:23,080
The sandbox game rents out a whole ass building in New York City for an event.

2566
02:45:23,080 --> 02:45:24,920
This was in when?

2567
02:45:24,920 --> 02:45:26,920
This was New York City.

2568
02:45:26,920 --> 02:45:30,480
NFT NYC 2022.

2569
02:45:30,480 --> 02:45:37,560
And the in that event, the sandbox spent about one hundred and fifty thousand US dollars

2570
02:45:37,560 --> 02:45:40,640
for that single event.

2571
02:45:40,640 --> 02:45:42,440
Right.

2572
02:45:42,440 --> 02:45:46,040
Sounds sounds great.

2573
02:45:46,040 --> 02:45:50,240
Sounds sounds like it's a lot of fun.

2574
02:45:50,240 --> 02:45:54,040
Four different three different three or four different doesn't really matter.

2575
02:45:54,040 --> 02:45:56,280
Open bars, drinks are free.

2576
02:45:56,280 --> 02:45:57,280
See Bayoke.

2577
02:45:57,280 --> 02:45:58,280
He's on the stage.

2578
02:45:58,280 --> 02:45:59,280
DJ Tiesto.

2579
02:45:59,280 --> 02:46:01,280
He's a different night.

2580
02:46:01,280 --> 02:46:04,000
You know, we got it all popping off.

2581
02:46:04,000 --> 02:46:07,920
There's three nights of fun during the daytime.

2582
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:11,040
Use the building for demos and showcasing of the product.

2583
02:46:11,040 --> 02:46:17,800
Use it for a like annex building so that people can come through and talk about the stuff

2584
02:46:17,800 --> 02:46:20,400
that they built in the sandbox or whatever panels.

2585
02:46:20,400 --> 02:46:21,400
Right.

2586
02:46:21,400 --> 02:46:24,480
Be centralized, finance, all that kind of stuff.

2587
02:46:24,480 --> 02:46:25,480
So we host some panels.

2588
02:46:25,480 --> 02:46:26,480
We do all this stuff.

2589
02:46:26,480 --> 02:46:36,480
But the fact is, at the end of the day, how many people purchase a ticket to NFT NYC?

2590
02:46:36,480 --> 02:46:45,040
Because over those three nights, I can tell you that almost all of them came by and drank

2591
02:46:45,040 --> 02:46:47,680
an unlimited number of drinks at the bar.

2592
02:46:47,680 --> 02:46:48,680
Right.

2593
02:46:48,680 --> 02:46:53,080
Because they're free and landowners get in as a priority.

2594
02:46:53,080 --> 02:46:54,160
Right.

2595
02:46:54,160 --> 02:46:59,660
And capacity of the building is what it is at that point.

2596
02:46:59,660 --> 02:47:03,960
But you're you're owning your land was your ticket to get in.

2597
02:47:03,960 --> 02:47:11,640
And Hill Hill messages me, you know, like, hey, trying to get in.

2598
02:47:11,640 --> 02:47:12,800
I'm like, go to the back door.

2599
02:47:12,800 --> 02:47:13,800
I'll let you in.

2600
02:47:13,800 --> 02:47:14,800
Don't worry about the line.

2601
02:47:14,800 --> 02:47:17,360
Like, it's good.

2602
02:47:17,360 --> 02:47:24,560
And I go to the back door and there's some old dude there and he pissed me off because

2603
02:47:24,560 --> 02:47:26,880
I've been there all day.

2604
02:47:26,880 --> 02:47:29,200
Like I'm literally like the staff.

2605
02:47:29,200 --> 02:47:31,640
I've got a badge.

2606
02:47:31,640 --> 02:47:32,640
It's over here.

2607
02:47:32,640 --> 02:47:34,120
Got a badge.

2608
02:47:34,120 --> 02:47:37,680
It says I work here.

2609
02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:38,680
Hello.

2610
02:47:38,680 --> 02:47:41,880
I paid for you to be there.

2611
02:47:41,880 --> 02:47:45,280
And this guy says she can't come in.

2612
02:47:45,280 --> 02:47:47,000
Nobody can come in.

2613
02:47:47,000 --> 02:47:50,020
I think it was a day Aoki was there.

2614
02:47:50,020 --> 02:47:53,600
And I was like, this is some bullsh.

2615
02:47:53,600 --> 02:47:54,600
I was mad.

2616
02:47:54,600 --> 02:47:55,600
I was heated.

2617
02:47:55,600 --> 02:47:57,200
I take her around the front.

2618
02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:02,360
We I walk her straight up to the front of the landowners line because I'm like, I know

2619
02:48:02,360 --> 02:48:03,720
she owns land.

2620
02:48:03,720 --> 02:48:06,240
And the guy goes, you can come in, but she can't.

2621
02:48:06,240 --> 02:48:07,240
She goes to the back of the line.

2622
02:48:07,240 --> 02:48:10,320
And I was like, this is like who hired you people?

2623
02:48:10,320 --> 02:48:11,320
I'm here.

2624
02:48:11,320 --> 02:48:12,320
Hello.

2625
02:48:12,320 --> 02:48:16,880
Anyway, nonetheless, all that said, one hundred fifty thousand dollars.

2626
02:48:16,880 --> 02:48:20,840
What five thousand people and thousand people.

2627
02:48:20,840 --> 02:48:23,680
Fifteen bucks ahead.

2628
02:48:23,680 --> 02:48:25,240
To do it's got to be less than that.

2629
02:48:25,240 --> 02:48:28,280
I don't think that many people go to NFT NYC.

2630
02:48:28,280 --> 02:48:29,600
Was it worth it in the end?

2631
02:48:29,600 --> 02:48:32,320
Could the money be better spent in another way?

2632
02:48:32,320 --> 02:48:37,200
Probably because that doesn't even count getting into the conference and what it costs to put

2633
02:48:37,200 --> 02:48:39,760
up the thing.

2634
02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:46,920
It said the little caption says had 16000 people attended from over 70 countries.

2635
02:48:46,920 --> 02:48:48,800
Yeah, there we go.

2636
02:48:48,800 --> 02:48:56,280
So if it's 16000 people and all of them attended the event, then 10 bucks apiece.

2637
02:48:56,280 --> 02:48:57,560
Right.

2638
02:48:57,560 --> 02:49:01,840
And is that the best use of money when you could market better?

2639
02:49:01,840 --> 02:49:02,840
Probably.

2640
02:49:02,840 --> 02:49:03,840
Yeah.

2641
02:49:03,840 --> 02:49:08,040
You know, it is what it is.

2642
02:49:08,040 --> 02:49:15,240
But you know, it was it was interesting anyway that the way that they looked at things early

2643
02:49:15,240 --> 02:49:22,440
are sort of the same kinds of I think I would say mistakes that you're looking at now, because

2644
02:49:22,440 --> 02:49:28,840
among the people who showed up for those events, how many of them are still here today?

2645
02:49:28,840 --> 02:49:32,040
How many of them were still here a year later?

2646
02:49:32,040 --> 02:49:33,040
Right.

2647
02:49:33,040 --> 02:49:34,040
Asking the hard questions.

2648
02:49:34,040 --> 02:49:35,040
Yeah.

2649
02:49:35,040 --> 02:49:36,040
Asking the hard questions.

2650
02:49:36,040 --> 02:49:40,720
Sandtoken pumped with the rest of the market altogether.

2651
02:49:40,720 --> 02:49:43,160
And that's good.

2652
02:49:43,160 --> 02:49:49,240
You know, and the PR overall for the sandbox was already good, though.

2653
02:49:49,240 --> 02:49:56,280
I'll tell you another fun story and why I think that was a waste of money then.

2654
02:49:56,280 --> 02:50:00,200
I'm standing outside to get my regular tickets for the regular show.

2655
02:50:00,200 --> 02:50:01,200
Right.

2656
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:04,880
They're prepaid for, but I just got to pick them up and there's a queue and this lady

2657
02:50:04,880 --> 02:50:09,080
walking by with a dude and he's got a big ass camera and she's got a microphone and

2658
02:50:09,080 --> 02:50:12,440
she goes, we're just interviewing people in line and I'm standing there in a suit.

2659
02:50:12,440 --> 02:50:15,680
So she pauses on me and she goes, hey, hey, what are you?

2660
02:50:15,680 --> 02:50:16,680
Who are you?

2661
02:50:16,680 --> 02:50:17,680
Where are you from?

2662
02:50:17,680 --> 02:50:18,680
What are you here with?

2663
02:50:18,680 --> 02:50:20,760
And I said, oh, my name's Joseph.

2664
02:50:20,760 --> 02:50:22,120
I'm here with the sandbox game.

2665
02:50:22,120 --> 02:50:23,880
And I go, do you know what that is?

2666
02:50:23,880 --> 02:50:28,500
And she stops the interview and she goes, everybody knows what that is.

2667
02:50:28,500 --> 02:50:33,200
And I'm like, and we spent $150,000 on an event here when everybody already knows what

2668
02:50:33,200 --> 02:50:35,960
it is before we even started.

2669
02:50:35,960 --> 02:50:37,280
Like are we wasting money?

2670
02:50:37,280 --> 02:50:38,280
Probably.

2671
02:50:38,280 --> 02:50:39,280
You know what I mean?

2672
02:50:39,280 --> 02:50:42,200
And I think that's that's again, that lends to the way that we should be voting when we

2673
02:50:42,200 --> 02:50:45,260
think about things in the Dow.

2674
02:50:45,260 --> 02:50:50,740
We should be thinking about things that boost the infrastructure of the ecosystem.

2675
02:50:50,740 --> 02:50:54,240
We should be thinking about ways that devs can make more money so that the devs do the

2676
02:50:54,240 --> 02:50:55,840
marketing for us.

2677
02:50:55,840 --> 02:50:56,840
Right.

2678
02:50:56,840 --> 02:51:03,920
And not spend the money from the Dow that could be better served on fundamental functions

2679
02:51:03,920 --> 02:51:09,360
because the people who pay attention to the Dow, the people who vote on the Dow, this

2680
02:51:09,360 --> 02:51:11,520
is not disparaging because it's me.

2681
02:51:11,520 --> 02:51:13,040
We're nerds.

2682
02:51:13,040 --> 02:51:14,760
We care about the ecosystem.

2683
02:51:14,760 --> 02:51:15,760
Right.

2684
02:51:15,760 --> 02:51:16,760
Yeah.

2685
02:51:16,760 --> 02:51:17,760
We care about the fundamental.

2686
02:51:17,760 --> 02:51:21,760
We care about the tools that are necessary to make this place work.

2687
02:51:21,760 --> 02:51:25,840
And if we care about that, then we can let somebody else spend the marketing dollars

2688
02:51:25,840 --> 02:51:31,400
to go to events and say built on the sandboxing because they'll do it automatically.

2689
02:51:31,400 --> 02:51:33,760
OK.

2690
02:51:33,760 --> 02:51:35,960
OK.

2691
02:51:35,960 --> 02:51:45,160
So that brings us to the ultimate question.

2692
02:51:45,160 --> 02:51:51,400
Oh, no, I'm having difficulties.

2693
02:51:51,400 --> 02:51:52,400
One second.

2694
02:51:52,400 --> 02:51:53,400
All right.

2695
02:51:53,400 --> 02:51:54,400
There we go.

2696
02:51:54,400 --> 02:52:00,800
Should people who get money from the Dow be allowed to answer to the sandbox instead of

2697
02:52:00,800 --> 02:52:01,800
the Dow community?

2698
02:52:01,800 --> 02:52:02,800
OK.

2699
02:52:02,800 --> 02:52:07,800
What do you think?

2700
02:52:07,800 --> 02:52:14,200
I happen to believe that the person who signed my check is the person I'm answering to.

2701
02:52:14,200 --> 02:52:15,560
Right.

2702
02:52:15,560 --> 02:52:24,220
I think if the people are voting for my measures, then I'm answering to the people.

2703
02:52:24,220 --> 02:52:29,560
Because if I fail, I don't fail someone who's inside the sandbox game.

2704
02:52:29,560 --> 02:52:31,100
I failed the community.

2705
02:52:31,100 --> 02:52:36,860
And if I succeed, I'm succeeding to the plan the community wanted.

2706
02:52:36,860 --> 02:52:45,320
And so, you know, for better or worse, sometimes the community is going to make poor decisions

2707
02:52:45,320 --> 02:52:47,060
with the money.

2708
02:52:47,060 --> 02:52:53,960
But if the community is engaged and educated, it will learn that that was a poor decision.

2709
02:52:53,960 --> 02:52:58,200
And then we won't do that again.

2710
02:52:58,200 --> 02:53:02,920
And you know, as you said, with the sandbox sort of literally giving this Kickstarter

2711
02:53:02,920 --> 02:53:08,320
level money, it's an opportunity for the community to learn.

2712
02:53:08,320 --> 02:53:17,000
But if we don't have someone who can educate this community, then we're going to end up

2713
02:53:17,000 --> 02:53:25,640
throwing a lot of money in a fire exactly like the ape Dow did and is still doing until

2714
02:53:25,640 --> 02:53:31,480
people get passionate, educated and engaged.

2715
02:53:31,480 --> 02:53:33,920
So short answer.

2716
02:53:33,920 --> 02:53:38,760
No, I don't believe that TSB should be able to tell the Dow what to do.

2717
02:53:38,760 --> 02:53:42,600
But that's because I care about what the letter D in Dow stands for.

2718
02:53:42,600 --> 02:53:43,600
Yeah.

2719
02:53:43,600 --> 02:53:45,200
What do you think?

2720
02:53:45,200 --> 02:53:50,640
I am I'm on the fence.

2721
02:53:50,640 --> 02:53:59,400
The first the first three cases, the case studies made sense in the light of.

2722
02:53:59,400 --> 02:54:02,160
Risk mitigation.

2723
02:54:02,160 --> 02:54:03,720
I just flipped my words there.

2724
02:54:03,720 --> 02:54:04,720
My letter.

2725
02:54:04,720 --> 02:54:05,720
That's funny.

2726
02:54:05,720 --> 02:54:06,720
Risk mitigation.

2727
02:54:06,720 --> 02:54:16,080
Say we said risk mitigation.

2728
02:54:16,080 --> 02:54:21,880
In the middle of progressive decentralization, just quickly becoming a word that's losing

2729
02:54:21,880 --> 02:54:23,360
its meaning.

2730
02:54:23,360 --> 02:54:28,680
But I get I get the concept.

2731
02:54:28,680 --> 02:54:36,400
And then the new pair create a new paradigm where the Dow is authorizing expenditures.

2732
02:54:36,400 --> 02:54:40,280
Should people who receive money from the down?

2733
02:54:40,280 --> 02:54:43,560
Let's just say SIPP authors.

2734
02:54:43,560 --> 02:54:47,560
Get money from the Dow be allowed to answer the TSB academically.

2735
02:54:47,560 --> 02:54:54,320
I say no, they should not be answering to TSB instead of the Dow community.

2736
02:54:54,320 --> 02:54:59,240
And I'll say in reality, yes, for the next six months.

2737
02:54:59,240 --> 02:55:00,240
Yeah.

2738
02:55:00,240 --> 02:55:07,880
But for the time where we are in mid transition, where the Dow is not able to act act responsibly,

2739
02:55:07,880 --> 02:55:10,360
it has doesn't have its own agency right now.

2740
02:55:10,360 --> 02:55:16,240
But the Dow to not have its own agency to me tells me that if the Dow were handed these

2741
02:55:16,240 --> 02:55:20,680
brains, it would be like giving.

2742
02:55:20,680 --> 02:55:24,760
Between a 10 year old, 10 million dollars and go to Las Vegas, maybe 10 year olds wrong

2743
02:55:24,760 --> 02:55:26,480
word, 16 year olds, right?

2744
02:55:26,480 --> 02:55:30,000
16 year old, 10 million dollars and go to Las Vegas.

2745
02:55:30,000 --> 02:55:34,480
What good do you think is going to happen there without any sort of parental guidance

2746
02:55:34,480 --> 02:55:37,600
of any kind?

2747
02:55:37,600 --> 02:55:42,640
I'm OK with that answer for the next six months.

2748
02:55:42,640 --> 02:55:48,960
At the end of next six months, I expect the Dow community to have matured the point where

2749
02:55:48,960 --> 02:55:57,200
it can responsibly handle those tasks and those responsibilities in a way that is.

2750
02:55:57,200 --> 02:56:07,480
Separate and distinct from the Dow team, administrative team and sandbox game company.

2751
02:56:07,480 --> 02:56:14,440
And I'm going to do everything in my power to educate, communicate the A's in this Dow

2752
02:56:14,440 --> 02:56:17,680
to bring us to that point.

2753
02:56:17,680 --> 02:56:20,080
And not just my little portion of it.

2754
02:56:20,080 --> 02:56:24,400
Yeah, well, I think that's a.

2755
02:56:24,400 --> 02:56:28,640
You know, just because you have it up on the screen, it's interesting that you mentioned,

2756
02:56:28,640 --> 02:56:32,000
you know, the.

2757
02:56:32,000 --> 02:56:37,080
The difference and why we need that distinction to change over the next six months, as I said,

2758
02:56:37,080 --> 02:56:40,160
the person who signs my check is the person I'm answering to.

2759
02:56:40,160 --> 02:56:41,160
Right.

2760
02:56:41,160 --> 02:56:48,440
So if the Dow is not the if the community is not the one signing the checks of the managers

2761
02:56:48,440 --> 02:56:50,840
of the Dow.

2762
02:56:50,840 --> 02:56:52,640
And again, this is that middle group, right?

2763
02:56:52,640 --> 02:56:57,540
So that middle group I'm talking about, this administrative group that wasn't.

2764
02:56:57,540 --> 02:56:58,540
Or maybe they are.

2765
02:56:58,540 --> 02:56:59,540
I guess they are.

2766
02:56:59,540 --> 02:57:00,540
They are.

2767
02:57:00,540 --> 02:57:03,160
But where does the next round of funding come from?

2768
02:57:03,160 --> 02:57:04,160
Right.

2769
02:57:04,160 --> 02:57:06,760
And I believe that until we come to December.

2770
02:57:06,760 --> 02:57:08,920
Well, no, I know that.

2771
02:57:08,920 --> 02:57:11,440
But where does it come from?

2772
02:57:11,440 --> 02:57:12,720
Oh.

2773
02:57:12,720 --> 02:57:14,240
Right.

2774
02:57:14,240 --> 02:57:19,040
So who do they answer to the community?

2775
02:57:19,040 --> 02:57:20,040
Or the sandbox?

2776
02:57:20,040 --> 02:57:21,040
Right.

2777
02:57:21,040 --> 02:57:26,520
Legally, the answer is clear.

2778
02:57:26,520 --> 02:57:31,160
Legally, practically and in reality.

2779
02:57:31,160 --> 02:57:32,800
The source does matter.

2780
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:33,920
Right.

2781
02:57:33,920 --> 02:57:35,200
And that's that's what I'm saying.

2782
02:57:35,200 --> 02:57:41,440
So if if the Dow has to continue to be funded by the sandbox game and not by its own means,

2783
02:57:41,440 --> 02:57:43,160
if we don't solve that problem as a.

2784
02:57:43,160 --> 02:57:44,160
Yeah.

2785
02:57:44,160 --> 02:57:45,160
Yeah.

2786
02:57:45,160 --> 02:57:46,160
No, that's a good one.

2787
02:57:46,160 --> 02:57:47,160
That's a good one.

2788
02:57:47,160 --> 02:57:48,160
Yeah.

2789
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:51,760
They're going to always work for us.

2790
02:57:51,760 --> 02:57:52,760
For them.

2791
02:57:52,760 --> 02:57:53,760
Right.

2792
02:57:53,760 --> 02:57:57,400
And so we can solve that problem as a community.

2793
02:57:57,400 --> 02:58:01,380
But we have to put forth sips that don't just extract.

2794
02:58:01,380 --> 02:58:06,560
We have to put forth sips that can contribute so that we can create that revenue stream.

2795
02:58:06,560 --> 02:58:13,560
You have to put forth plans that say this is how the Dow profits from this venture.

2796
02:58:13,560 --> 02:58:19,600
If we can do that, I think we solve this problem.

2797
02:58:19,600 --> 02:58:21,400
OK.

2798
02:58:21,400 --> 02:58:30,120
I'm really like the revenue option sip is is all of my business acumen in that sip.

2799
02:58:30,120 --> 02:58:36,480
I've got professional teams on standby partnerships with open campus and all sorts of stuff where

2800
02:58:36,480 --> 02:58:42,800
I'm bringing in every expert I can think of that will be value added to producing a realistic

2801
02:58:42,800 --> 02:58:50,600
plan for the Dow to start system income so that we are solvent.

2802
02:58:50,600 --> 02:58:54,560
I will put all my professional energies into that.

2803
02:58:54,560 --> 02:59:01,200
And there's a lot of other people who are good at this who can make that happen.

2804
02:59:01,200 --> 02:59:02,240
But it's not closed off.

2805
02:59:02,240 --> 02:59:09,360
So if anyone believes that they can be that person as well, when it goes to public comment,

2806
02:59:09,360 --> 02:59:10,920
I want to hear it.

2807
02:59:10,920 --> 02:59:12,240
The team isn't set in stone.

2808
02:59:12,240 --> 02:59:13,800
It's just I know who I want.

2809
02:59:13,800 --> 02:59:17,700
If there were no one else presents themselves.

2810
02:59:17,700 --> 02:59:23,040
One of them is one of the top consulting firms in the world just because of context through

2811
02:59:23,040 --> 02:59:25,280
professional life that I've made.

2812
02:59:25,280 --> 02:59:28,960
So that we have to be solvent.

2813
02:59:28,960 --> 02:59:30,160
We are not solvent.

2814
02:59:30,160 --> 02:59:36,680
Just take a look at some of the other DOWs and we will be them if we don't you don't

2815
02:59:36,680 --> 02:59:44,040
establish a good way forward right now.

2816
02:59:44,040 --> 02:59:45,640
That's my opinion anyways.

2817
02:59:45,640 --> 02:59:46,640
Just me.

2818
02:59:46,640 --> 02:59:51,320
All right, man.

2819
02:59:51,320 --> 02:59:53,520
I think I think we answered that one.

2820
02:59:53,520 --> 02:59:59,080
Okay, I didn't see any community questions that we haven't already answered.

2821
02:59:59,080 --> 03:00:01,120
We did answer a couple along the way.

2822
03:00:01,120 --> 03:00:02,920
Did we answer that one?

2823
03:00:02,920 --> 03:00:03,920
Let me check.

2824
03:00:03,920 --> 03:00:04,920
Which one?

2825
03:00:04,920 --> 03:00:06,960
One from Don Son.

2826
03:00:06,960 --> 03:00:07,960
Oh, Donson.

2827
03:00:07,960 --> 03:00:08,960
Yeah, earlier.

2828
03:00:08,960 --> 03:00:09,960
Yeah, I think you're good.

2829
03:00:09,960 --> 03:00:10,960
You answered almost right away.

2830
03:00:10,960 --> 03:00:11,960
Oh, okay.

2831
03:00:11,960 --> 03:00:12,960
Yeah, it was.

2832
03:00:12,960 --> 03:00:13,960
I wonder.

2833
03:00:13,960 --> 03:00:14,960
Oh, there we go.

2834
03:00:14,960 --> 03:00:15,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2835
03:00:15,960 --> 03:00:25,600
Shoot, where did I had it?

2836
03:00:25,600 --> 03:00:29,360
I got this nice little, got this nice little pin button now that shows on the screen.

2837
03:00:29,360 --> 03:00:30,360
There we go.

2838
03:00:30,360 --> 03:00:39,640
Donson wonders how many tedious business functions, which may just end up as a sip.

2839
03:00:39,640 --> 03:00:43,400
But wouldn't generate enough interest to generate votes one way or the other, but are nevertheless

2840
03:00:43,400 --> 03:00:45,400
critical.

2841
03:00:45,400 --> 03:00:50,040
And then the second one was I wonder what rate of sips die in the first review versus

2842
03:00:50,040 --> 03:00:52,360
special counsel versus makes it to vote.

2843
03:00:52,360 --> 03:00:54,880
Is that data available?

2844
03:00:54,880 --> 03:00:55,880
Kind of.

2845
03:00:55,880 --> 03:01:00,240
Cyril posts the the the sips each week.

2846
03:01:00,240 --> 03:01:04,360
He hasn't for the past week or two, but he normally posts a backlog of sips.

2847
03:01:04,360 --> 03:01:07,760
You can see which ones drop off.

2848
03:01:07,760 --> 03:01:12,000
And like Kyril's, the creator first, you saw how that one dropped off.

2849
03:01:12,000 --> 03:01:19,920
And then later on, it became known that dropped off because of the negative receipt for you.

2850
03:01:19,920 --> 03:01:23,720
So you can track it that way, but it has to be done manually, like in the same way I'm

2851
03:01:23,720 --> 03:01:25,520
tracking the checkbook manually.

2852
03:01:25,520 --> 03:01:30,920
Do you have any more insight into that or any other different answer?

2853
03:01:30,920 --> 03:01:36,340
Not sure the way that sips die in first review, but I would definitely say that in terms of

2854
03:01:36,340 --> 03:01:43,200
things that you think are small operations needs, when you are drafting a sip, it is

2855
03:01:43,200 --> 03:01:54,280
your entire job as a sip, a sip proposer to draw out the urgency of why this exists.

2856
03:01:54,280 --> 03:02:00,480
And again, if the community is just generally engaged anyway, then it doesn't really matter

2857
03:02:00,480 --> 03:02:06,440
how small you think it is, as long as you recognize it as an issue.

2858
03:02:06,440 --> 03:02:10,120
And then you've got people recognizing it as an issue.

2859
03:02:10,120 --> 03:02:15,940
You just, you know, if the discussion board section says, yeah, this is a problem we need

2860
03:02:15,940 --> 03:02:16,940
to fix.

2861
03:02:16,940 --> 03:02:21,540
It may seem small, but small sips are good.

2862
03:02:21,540 --> 03:02:22,840
Small sips should be passed.

2863
03:02:22,840 --> 03:02:25,580
And I think small sips can be passed.

2864
03:02:25,580 --> 03:02:33,400
In fact, it may be easier to pass the small things than it would be the big ones, because

2865
03:02:33,400 --> 03:02:35,320
you won't have debate.

2866
03:02:35,320 --> 03:02:41,320
Like I think is the case with your window resizing option.

2867
03:02:41,320 --> 03:02:45,960
If that was proposed, I think people would go, yeah, I'd like to, I'd love to not be

2868
03:02:45,960 --> 03:02:48,520
full screen anymore.

2869
03:02:48,520 --> 03:02:51,280
You know, that's the feedback is getting right now in the forums.

2870
03:02:51,280 --> 03:02:52,520
It's really simple.

2871
03:02:52,520 --> 03:02:57,360
It's not that complicated, because for me, if I'm working on one monitor, if I'm working

2872
03:02:57,360 --> 03:02:59,680
on a laptop, right?

2873
03:02:59,680 --> 03:03:06,240
Usually when I'm developing a game, I've got a notepad of like a thought tree going down

2874
03:03:06,240 --> 03:03:11,640
is that gives me notes on what this NPCs motivations are.

2875
03:03:11,640 --> 03:03:15,600
And it doesn't actually like I don't write out what I'm writing in their narrative, but

2876
03:03:15,600 --> 03:03:20,160
I'm writing what their motivations are and having the conversation be fluid as I'm writing

2877
03:03:20,160 --> 03:03:21,240
the narrative.

2878
03:03:21,240 --> 03:03:25,040
So I can go that character won't do that because they're afraid of cats.

2879
03:03:25,040 --> 03:03:26,040
Right?

2880
03:03:26,040 --> 03:03:31,480
Like, it's just not going to happen when we get into they possibly going into the jungle

2881
03:03:31,480 --> 03:03:34,660
or something like just coming up with this off top my head.

2882
03:03:34,660 --> 03:03:39,240
But if I had the ability to not have this thing be full screen, then I could actually

2883
03:03:39,240 --> 03:03:42,800
have my notepad on the right instead of having to print out a piece of paper.

2884
03:03:42,800 --> 03:03:43,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2885
03:03:43,800 --> 03:03:49,240
You know, it's for me, it's the assets and the other windows be next to Vox said it like,

2886
03:03:49,240 --> 03:03:51,640
yeah, yes, it's the same thing.

2887
03:03:51,640 --> 03:03:52,880
Yeah, with Vox said it right.

2888
03:03:52,880 --> 03:03:57,660
Like if you had finalized an asset and you just wanted to make sure you had consistent

2889
03:03:57,660 --> 03:04:03,880
art design, you're going to probably have that another one in theme on the right.

2890
03:04:03,880 --> 03:04:08,240
While you've got your I'm working on this over here and you could be working on it and

2891
03:04:08,240 --> 03:04:12,320
go, okay, I forgot to save the color palette.

2892
03:04:12,320 --> 03:04:13,320
Something so simple, right?

2893
03:04:13,320 --> 03:04:15,000
You just go like, okay, I'm looking at that.

2894
03:04:15,000 --> 03:04:16,000
I'm looking at this.

2895
03:04:16,000 --> 03:04:17,400
That is the same.

2896
03:04:17,400 --> 03:04:18,400
Yeah.

2897
03:04:18,400 --> 03:04:22,960
And then with magic palette about to come out because it uses magic of voxel or Vox

2898
03:04:22,960 --> 03:04:25,840
edit and is a big enabler.

2899
03:04:25,840 --> 03:04:27,920
You're going to need that even more now.

2900
03:04:27,920 --> 03:04:29,120
Yeah.

2901
03:04:29,120 --> 03:04:32,440
Two different services need to run together.

2902
03:04:32,440 --> 03:04:37,200
Yeah, no, makes sense.

2903
03:04:37,200 --> 03:04:47,560
I did have I did have an open topic if we wanted to get to it, which was actually be

2904
03:04:47,560 --> 03:04:53,800
the Dallas involvement in the sandbox said mentioned twice.

2905
03:04:53,800 --> 03:04:58,400
One at me about AMA a few weeks ago and one at the fireside chat and NFC Lisbon back in

2906
03:04:58,400 --> 03:05:04,960
May, I think was that his goal was for all decisions that they're making internally in

2907
03:05:04,960 --> 03:05:09,760
the sandbox in company will be progressively handed over to the community to decide.

2908
03:05:09,760 --> 03:05:13,360
And that's for Cyril started talking about progressive decentralization.

2909
03:05:13,360 --> 03:05:15,720
How realistic do you think that that really is?

2910
03:05:15,720 --> 03:05:21,680
I say realistic as in so Seb, I thought when he when we interviewed, I and he said that

2911
03:05:21,680 --> 03:05:26,160
to me, I told him that that's a bold goal, but I'm behind it.

2912
03:05:26,160 --> 03:05:29,760
The logistics of it, as I think through the mechanics of.

2913
03:05:29,760 --> 03:05:30,920
Yeah.

2914
03:05:30,920 --> 03:05:31,920
What do you think?

2915
03:05:31,920 --> 03:05:38,880
OK, well, I'm going to change my battery so I won't be able to hear you for a second here,

2916
03:05:38,880 --> 03:05:41,600
but I'll give you my best.

2917
03:05:41,600 --> 03:05:48,640
Boy, how do I answer this without.

2918
03:05:48,640 --> 03:05:55,320
Like the most pragmatic answer is correct one here.

2919
03:05:55,320 --> 03:05:57,640
Of course, it's going to get progressively decentralized.

2920
03:05:57,640 --> 03:05:59,760
They're running out of money.

2921
03:05:59,760 --> 03:06:01,120
Right.

2922
03:06:01,120 --> 03:06:04,960
He said they were cash solvent.

2923
03:06:04,960 --> 03:06:05,960
They are cash solvent.

2924
03:06:05,960 --> 03:06:13,560
Absolutely, they've got 20 million dollar funding around from Animoca on top of the

2925
03:06:13,560 --> 03:06:18,360
sand that has not yet been distributed, 40 percent of which goes to operations.

2926
03:06:18,360 --> 03:06:19,360
Right.

2927
03:06:19,360 --> 03:06:23,600
So, yes, they're absolutely cash solvent.

2928
03:06:23,600 --> 03:06:32,040
But until again, the fundamental is fixed that they're getting sales in the marketplace.

2929
03:06:32,040 --> 03:06:38,600
Their operations are not a net positive.

2930
03:06:38,600 --> 03:06:42,920
They're cash solvent, but they're losing money hand over fist.

2931
03:06:42,920 --> 03:06:44,240
Right.

2932
03:06:44,240 --> 03:06:47,240
Like they're spending whatever it is at peak.

2933
03:06:47,240 --> 03:06:49,280
I think it was eight million dollars a year.

2934
03:06:49,280 --> 03:06:50,280
Maybe that's what it is now.

2935
03:06:50,280 --> 03:06:51,280
I can't.

2936
03:06:51,280 --> 03:06:52,280
I haven't done the math.

2937
03:06:52,280 --> 03:06:57,000
About eight million dollars a year if I was to guess on payrolls and operations.

2938
03:06:57,000 --> 03:07:02,000
So if they got a 20 million dollar funding round, that's another two and a half years,

2939
03:07:02,000 --> 03:07:03,640
plus the sand that they already have.

2940
03:07:03,640 --> 03:07:05,360
So we can add another two years to that.

2941
03:07:05,360 --> 03:07:09,880
We got maybe a five year on top of their original five year roadmap where they are solvent.

2942
03:07:09,880 --> 03:07:10,880
Sure.

2943
03:07:10,880 --> 03:07:19,720
So then, lending back to the question, progressively handed over to the community to decide, it's

2944
03:07:19,720 --> 03:07:26,100
really a question of, you know, over time, as they're trying to maintain sustainability

2945
03:07:26,100 --> 03:07:32,320
of the central portions of the company, some of those roles just won't be able to be centralized

2946
03:07:32,320 --> 03:07:33,760
anymore.

2947
03:07:33,760 --> 03:07:38,800
And so they'll come to a point where they're satisfied with VoxEdit and they'll kill all

2948
03:07:38,800 --> 03:07:40,220
the positions of VoxEdit.

2949
03:07:40,220 --> 03:07:43,720
They will change VoxEdit to be open source software.

2950
03:07:43,720 --> 03:07:45,840
That means there's no devs in house anymore.

2951
03:07:45,840 --> 03:07:47,760
That's not an expense that they have.

2952
03:07:47,760 --> 03:07:53,520
They'll come to a point where the game maker software is sufficient in their opinion and

2953
03:07:53,520 --> 03:07:57,440
it will become open source software and all of those staff members get fired.

2954
03:07:57,440 --> 03:08:01,840
They'll come to a point where, again, as I mentioned earlier, it'll really just come

2955
03:08:01,840 --> 03:08:10,800
down to the only critical operations people are going to be the absolute, like just Seb,

2956
03:08:10,800 --> 03:08:13,480
basically.

2957
03:08:13,480 --> 03:08:19,480
And then people who operate the infrastructure of the platform that he doesn't understand.

2958
03:08:19,480 --> 03:08:24,720
So you'll need a few people maybe in PRs, marketing, whatever.

2959
03:08:24,720 --> 03:08:29,240
You're going to need a few people to be able to manage the dashboard, which is what they

2960
03:08:29,240 --> 03:08:30,240
call the website.

2961
03:08:30,240 --> 03:08:31,240
Skeleton.

2962
03:08:31,240 --> 03:08:37,200
I mean, yeah, but that's not a negative thing per se.

2963
03:08:37,200 --> 03:08:44,200
It's when you talk about, again, I've mentioned it a hundred times, sufficient decentralization.

2964
03:08:44,200 --> 03:08:49,880
Sufficient decentralization is targeting having almost no one centralized.

2965
03:08:49,880 --> 03:08:52,680
It's targeting firing everyone.

2966
03:08:52,680 --> 03:08:54,120
Right?

2967
03:08:54,120 --> 03:08:55,280
Basically.

2968
03:08:55,280 --> 03:09:01,600
It's not that seems rude and wrong and bad and it sounds terrible.

2969
03:09:01,600 --> 03:09:04,200
I'll tell you, it sounds awful.

2970
03:09:04,200 --> 03:09:09,480
But when people say we should be making the decisions about the sandbox, you're saying,

2971
03:09:09,480 --> 03:09:10,480
great.

2972
03:09:10,480 --> 03:09:13,520
So the person who's employed right now to make those decisions is wrong and they should

2973
03:09:13,520 --> 03:09:18,920
be fired so that you can make the decisions in the community because it's, it can't be

2974
03:09:18,920 --> 03:09:19,920
both.

2975
03:09:19,920 --> 03:09:20,920
Right?

2976
03:09:20,920 --> 03:09:24,800
You can't have what you're talking about with these SIPs.

2977
03:09:24,800 --> 03:09:33,640
You can't have somebody screening the SIPs and also have it be sufficiently decentralized.

2978
03:09:33,640 --> 03:09:39,360
So if you make it sufficiently decentralized, you fired the guy screening the SIPs.

2979
03:09:39,360 --> 03:09:41,160
Got it.

2980
03:09:41,160 --> 03:09:45,640
But we don't want to think about it like that as a community per se.

2981
03:09:45,640 --> 03:09:49,280
But that's essentially what is being said here.

2982
03:09:49,280 --> 03:09:53,520
Again, the original plan was to do that.

2983
03:09:53,520 --> 03:09:57,400
The original plan was after five years, we would have had the sandbox on mobile.

2984
03:09:57,400 --> 03:09:58,880
We would have had a sandbox on desktop.

2985
03:09:58,880 --> 03:10:01,560
We would have had sandbox on consoles.

2986
03:10:01,560 --> 03:10:04,600
And then it would have been open source software.

2987
03:10:04,600 --> 03:10:07,160
So that means nobody has to work on it anymore.

2988
03:10:07,160 --> 03:10:10,140
They would have done their job with these five years and this money.

2989
03:10:10,140 --> 03:10:13,080
And then they would have left.

2990
03:10:13,080 --> 03:10:15,760
That was the plan the whole time.

2991
03:10:15,760 --> 03:10:17,340
Hmm.

2992
03:10:17,340 --> 03:10:22,760
So this is kind of fulfilling the plan in a roundabout way, taking into account all the

2993
03:10:22,760 --> 03:10:26,680
delays and challenges that have been.

2994
03:10:26,680 --> 03:10:27,680
Yeah.

2995
03:10:27,680 --> 03:10:32,600
Like, let's assume that their extra funding round helps them fulfill the intentions of

2996
03:10:32,600 --> 03:10:34,720
what was a five-year roadmap.

2997
03:10:34,720 --> 03:10:37,160
And now they've added another five years.

2998
03:10:37,160 --> 03:10:40,440
Well, the funding source wasn't the people.

2999
03:10:40,440 --> 03:10:41,440
It wasn't you and I.

3000
03:10:41,440 --> 03:10:45,920
We didn't hand them cash per se.

3001
03:10:45,920 --> 03:10:48,600
The funding source was originally the dissemination of sand.

3002
03:10:48,600 --> 03:10:51,880
That'll get fully decentralized and then they'll use the budget that they got from Animoca

3003
03:10:51,880 --> 03:10:52,880
brands.

3004
03:10:52,880 --> 03:10:53,880
Right?

3005
03:10:53,880 --> 03:10:59,680
They'll have sold all the sand and they'll use the funding from Animoca brands that US

3006
03:10:59,680 --> 03:11:02,440
dollars cash to continue to operate.

3007
03:11:02,440 --> 03:11:10,440
And again, the critical mass that is the sandbox is getting to a point of balance where they're

3008
03:11:10,440 --> 03:11:15,600
making enough revenue off of the marketplace sales to offset the staff that they have.

3009
03:11:15,600 --> 03:11:20,680
And a measure of success would be to not have to terminate anyone.

3010
03:11:20,680 --> 03:11:23,920
But the only way that's possible is getting that 300 million plus that I've mentioned

3011
03:11:23,920 --> 03:11:25,520
a couple of times, right?

3012
03:11:25,520 --> 03:11:27,640
In total sales.

3013
03:11:27,640 --> 03:11:30,160
Because otherwise they have to fire people.

3014
03:11:30,160 --> 03:11:37,360
However, as a measure of success, that's only a measure of centralized success.

3015
03:11:37,360 --> 03:11:38,360
Right?

3016
03:11:38,360 --> 03:11:44,760
Because they can keep the centralized infrastructure and it is a hindrance against decentralization.

3017
03:11:44,760 --> 03:11:51,880
So the community, you know, the community is either the community basically has to pick

3018
03:11:51,880 --> 03:11:52,880
a lane, right?

3019
03:11:52,880 --> 03:11:56,520
Because I think a lot of people are going to say they want to see it decentralized.

3020
03:11:56,520 --> 03:11:58,040
Of course, yes.

3021
03:11:58,040 --> 03:12:02,400
But they don't want to see forks in development, right?

3022
03:12:02,400 --> 03:12:06,640
It's unhealthy for there to be five different versions of the game maker.

3023
03:12:06,640 --> 03:12:11,800
And it's impossible to support five different versions of the game maker via the client.

3024
03:12:11,800 --> 03:12:14,420
Unless you make five different versions of the client.

3025
03:12:14,420 --> 03:12:15,680
And where are you going to publish those games?

3026
03:12:15,680 --> 03:12:18,360
It can't be on sandbox.game.

3027
03:12:18,360 --> 03:12:25,920
If you make games in game client version seven, you know, you have to have a community that's

3028
03:12:25,920 --> 03:12:32,440
decentralized working together on a central plan in order for this place to continue to

3029
03:12:32,440 --> 03:12:36,920
grow and succeed, even if there's no sandbox game.

3030
03:12:36,920 --> 03:12:38,400
Okay.

3031
03:12:38,400 --> 03:12:43,200
Anyway, complex, right?

3032
03:12:43,200 --> 03:12:45,720
This is the convergence that we've been talking about the whole time.

3033
03:12:45,720 --> 03:12:51,680
I know you and you look at it from more of a technical.

3034
03:12:51,680 --> 03:12:54,660
Game side standpoint, I look at it from the business end.

3035
03:12:54,660 --> 03:13:00,040
How does a Dow run a for-profit company with a board?

3036
03:13:00,040 --> 03:13:05,520
How does it fulfill the presidency and the treasurer and all the sorts of things we know

3037
03:13:05,520 --> 03:13:10,200
now or starting to know now how a Dow gets sued?

3038
03:13:10,200 --> 03:13:11,200
That's been happening.

3039
03:13:11,200 --> 03:13:12,200
Yeah.

3040
03:13:12,200 --> 03:13:15,840
It gets sued as a person.

3041
03:13:15,840 --> 03:13:19,880
There's an answer.

3042
03:13:19,880 --> 03:13:22,680
And it's interesting.

3043
03:13:22,680 --> 03:13:27,360
The way that the infrastructure is built right now is actually mostly like a nonprofit company.

3044
03:13:27,360 --> 03:13:28,360
Yeah.

3045
03:13:28,360 --> 03:13:30,800
I read all this bylaws and everything.

3046
03:13:30,800 --> 03:13:31,800
Yeah.

3047
03:13:31,800 --> 03:13:38,720
But it's if you're operating as a nonprofit, there is still a profit line.

3048
03:13:38,720 --> 03:13:40,480
You look to break even, right?

3049
03:13:40,480 --> 03:13:45,720
And break even includes expense of the people who work there.

3050
03:13:45,720 --> 03:13:50,200
So you're making profit in that you're able to pay the wages of the people up to whatever

3051
03:13:50,200 --> 03:13:54,480
it is, $250,000 a year per person.

3052
03:13:54,480 --> 03:14:00,120
So the company again, yeah, it could make profit, but really it shouldn't look to make

3053
03:14:00,120 --> 03:14:10,120
profit, more so look to pay payrolls and have a balance sheet of 365 day revolving balance.

3054
03:14:10,120 --> 03:14:11,120
That would be the measure.

3055
03:14:11,120 --> 03:14:12,800
Yes, but not the sandbox.

3056
03:14:12,800 --> 03:14:17,600
If we end up assuming all the sandboxes responsibilities, we'll be effectively running a for-profit

3057
03:14:17,600 --> 03:14:18,600
company.

3058
03:14:18,600 --> 03:14:19,600
Yeah, right.

3059
03:14:19,600 --> 03:14:20,600
But that's OK.

3060
03:14:20,600 --> 03:14:26,520
Let me restate that the sandbox isn't making money.

3061
03:14:26,520 --> 03:14:28,680
They're not for profit.

3062
03:14:28,680 --> 03:14:30,160
They're not making any profit.

3063
03:14:30,160 --> 03:14:33,760
The sandbox might not be making money, but they're still for profit.

3064
03:14:33,760 --> 03:14:34,760
They're not not for profit.

3065
03:14:34,760 --> 03:14:35,760
I'm pretty sure about that.

3066
03:14:35,760 --> 03:14:38,760
Well, they're not listed as a non-profit company.

3067
03:14:38,760 --> 03:14:40,680
No, no, no, no, no, they're not.

3068
03:14:40,680 --> 03:14:48,440
But they could be like the the Dow itself and how it is incorporated could operate as

3069
03:14:48,440 --> 03:14:52,040
a in the same format as a non-profit.

3070
03:14:52,040 --> 03:14:56,800
The foundation itself is structured in the way that it is construed.

3071
03:14:56,800 --> 03:14:57,800
Yeah.

3072
03:14:57,800 --> 03:14:58,800
Yeah.

3073
03:14:58,800 --> 03:15:02,920
So it's not legally on the books as a non-profit, but that doesn't really matter because like

3074
03:15:02,920 --> 03:15:07,640
when you go to file for your taxes as a business, you really just have to say I didn't make

3075
03:15:07,640 --> 03:15:12,540
any money and I had these expenses or I did make so much money.

3076
03:15:12,540 --> 03:15:16,260
But when I made that money, the expenses offset it by this degree.

3077
03:15:16,260 --> 03:15:18,160
And then you pay your taxes and you do whatever.

3078
03:15:18,160 --> 03:15:21,240
It'll matter when they come to the U.S.

3079
03:15:21,240 --> 03:15:23,300
I mean, it does.

3080
03:15:23,300 --> 03:15:27,320
But you can still file as.

3081
03:15:27,320 --> 03:15:30,320
You know, what money did they make in the United States?

3082
03:15:30,320 --> 03:15:33,120
That's a different thing.

3083
03:15:33,120 --> 03:15:34,920
I do it for our company.

3084
03:15:34,920 --> 03:15:39,080
So I understand like the money that I do it on the corporation side.

3085
03:15:39,080 --> 03:15:41,080
I know what matters there.

3086
03:15:41,080 --> 03:15:42,080
Yeah.

3087
03:15:42,080 --> 03:15:47,480
I mean, it's it's difficult, but that doesn't mean it's not doable.

3088
03:15:47,480 --> 03:15:48,480
You know, true.

3089
03:15:48,480 --> 03:15:53,220
Like I'm looking at a Dow, though, a Dow that has to vote through SIPs on these things.

3090
03:15:53,220 --> 03:15:57,800
Like let's hope that the people who vote for the SIPs don't say I hate the treasurer, kick

3091
03:15:57,800 --> 03:15:58,800
them out.

3092
03:15:58,800 --> 03:15:59,800
You know what I mean?

3093
03:15:59,800 --> 03:16:00,800
That's right.

3094
03:16:00,800 --> 03:16:01,800
Like you need an expert.

3095
03:16:01,800 --> 03:16:04,120
But that's the nature of it, isn't it?

3096
03:16:04,120 --> 03:16:10,360
You know, if again goes back to the education component, if the people aren't educated,

3097
03:16:10,360 --> 03:16:14,960
they don't have to be Harvard graduates to understand why it makes sense.

3098
03:16:14,960 --> 03:16:17,680
You just have to be willing to talk to them.

3099
03:16:17,680 --> 03:16:18,680
OK.

3100
03:16:18,680 --> 03:16:19,680
Yeah.

3101
03:16:19,680 --> 03:16:20,680
OK.

3102
03:16:20,680 --> 03:16:22,720
So I'm I'm hopeful.

3103
03:16:22,720 --> 03:16:23,720
I'm uncertain.

3104
03:16:23,720 --> 03:16:27,920
There's too many uncertainties that I don't think of burn itself out yet in the global

3105
03:16:27,920 --> 03:16:29,200
international stage.

3106
03:16:29,200 --> 03:16:31,480
There are many uncertainties for sure.

3107
03:16:31,480 --> 03:16:32,480
Yeah.

3108
03:16:32,480 --> 03:16:36,160
Like I think it's fascinating that a Dow got sued by the U.S. government.

3109
03:16:36,160 --> 03:16:37,160
Yeah.

3110
03:16:37,160 --> 03:16:40,880
Getting sued as an individual, I think they could probably get it tossed out depending

3111
03:16:40,880 --> 03:16:42,720
on how their bylaws are written.

3112
03:16:42,720 --> 03:16:43,720
Well, they know they won.

3113
03:16:43,720 --> 03:16:45,320
The court case won.

3114
03:16:45,320 --> 03:16:46,320
Yeah.

3115
03:16:46,320 --> 03:16:49,120
But in a court of appeals is what I mean to say.

3116
03:16:49,120 --> 03:16:50,120
OK.

3117
03:16:50,120 --> 03:16:55,000
Like, yeah, I don't think the Dow that Dow is I don't think they're that organized to

3118
03:16:55,000 --> 03:16:58,000
put it in the.

3119
03:16:58,000 --> 03:16:59,000
Yeah.

3120
03:16:59,000 --> 03:17:00,000
All right.

3121
03:17:00,000 --> 03:17:01,000
All right.

3122
03:17:01,000 --> 03:17:02,000
Yeah.

3123
03:17:02,000 --> 03:17:07,520
Well, that that was just an interesting thing that popped up that I've heard said twice

3124
03:17:07,520 --> 03:17:13,640
now and then I guess three times is on the interview we did where he confirmed it.

3125
03:17:13,640 --> 03:17:20,800
And just to think about how company for profit or not for profit is run in a central Web

3126
03:17:20,800 --> 03:17:22,320
two way.

3127
03:17:22,320 --> 03:17:26,520
How then does that happen in a decentralized Web three?

3128
03:17:26,520 --> 03:17:29,120
That's kind of that makes me a little nervous.

3129
03:17:29,120 --> 03:17:35,000
Think about all those all those obligations you have to pay and being flexible enough

3130
03:17:35,000 --> 03:17:42,280
with the right leadership team to responsibly handle those duties and not end up in court

3131
03:17:42,280 --> 03:17:46,200
because you don't pay on time or.

3132
03:17:46,200 --> 03:17:49,680
It just yeah, that's odd, but that's cool.

3133
03:17:49,680 --> 03:17:50,840
That's another thing.

3134
03:17:50,840 --> 03:17:57,720
That's another thing that pops up to write is if you choose to not trust anyone.

3135
03:17:57,720 --> 03:17:58,720
Right.

3136
03:17:58,720 --> 03:18:05,000
Like, let's assume that you don't trust Lancer with legal fees here.

3137
03:18:05,000 --> 03:18:06,880
And how does that process work?

3138
03:18:06,880 --> 03:18:10,400
How does legal not legal fees?

3139
03:18:10,400 --> 03:18:16,320
Legal legal proceedings and interpreting them, then you're probably going to pay an agency.

3140
03:18:16,320 --> 03:18:17,320
Yeah.

3141
03:18:17,320 --> 03:18:22,600
And then it's a question of are we going to allow an agency to price gouges down to have

3142
03:18:22,600 --> 03:18:23,600
them on retainer?

3143
03:18:23,600 --> 03:18:24,600
Right.

3144
03:18:24,600 --> 03:18:28,440
And then what is their value?

3145
03:18:28,440 --> 03:18:29,440
Yeah.

3146
03:18:29,440 --> 03:18:35,760
So you have to make sure that again, the Dow not just earns enough to pay individuals individually,

3147
03:18:35,760 --> 03:18:40,320
but earns enough to overpay individuals just in case you want to start to outsource things

3148
03:18:40,320 --> 03:18:42,880
and then you get that markup.

3149
03:18:42,880 --> 03:18:47,240
You know, it's a fun game.

3150
03:18:47,240 --> 03:18:51,800
I'm hopeful that we can get through at least the revenue options.

3151
03:18:51,800 --> 03:18:58,480
That way I can turn out a real revenue plan that identifies income streams that I would

3152
03:18:58,480 --> 03:19:06,120
then probably need to sip each one into existence in whatever fashion it would end up in.

3153
03:19:06,120 --> 03:19:07,440
That's the way I approach it with the sip.

3154
03:19:07,440 --> 03:19:12,200
I want to do the study first, figure out what's reasonable, reasonable based on experts who

3155
03:19:12,200 --> 03:19:13,420
know the game.

3156
03:19:13,420 --> 03:19:18,320
And then once we start accruing that revenue, then we start our working groups and our and

3157
03:19:18,320 --> 03:19:23,640
then we'll be forced to answer, how do we the sandbox Dow want to account for those

3158
03:19:23,640 --> 03:19:24,640
things?

3159
03:19:24,640 --> 03:19:30,840
Can't just hand it off to the Dow admin team and expect them to do whatever with there.

3160
03:19:30,840 --> 03:19:35,560
There's going to be some sort of governance structure I expect would pop up as a result

3161
03:19:35,560 --> 03:19:38,920
of that.

3162
03:19:38,920 --> 03:19:39,920
I'm looking forward to it.

3163
03:19:39,920 --> 03:19:48,960
That's where I want to go with all this is how do we become self-sufficient?

3164
03:19:48,960 --> 03:19:49,960
Right on.

3165
03:19:49,960 --> 03:19:54,120
Well, I'd say what, three and a half hours in.

3166
03:19:54,120 --> 03:19:59,000
I think we're ready to bring it home.

3167
03:19:59,000 --> 03:20:00,000
Yeah.

3168
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:01,000
Sure.

3169
03:20:01,000 --> 03:20:04,400
Is there anything other open topics you wanted to talk about?

3170
03:20:04,400 --> 03:20:07,960
No, man.

3171
03:20:07,960 --> 03:20:10,680
I mean, future episodes are good.

3172
03:20:10,680 --> 03:20:13,120
I like what you got coming up.

3173
03:20:13,120 --> 03:20:20,800
So I'm just excited to, again, be in the conversation, hang out, chat.

3174
03:20:20,800 --> 03:20:25,240
It's nice to see some great engagement as we're going through here.

3175
03:20:25,240 --> 03:20:32,360
And hopefully this gets out there to as many eyes and ears as possible because again, we

3176
03:20:32,360 --> 03:20:40,160
are at that convergence where the centralized and decentralized are going to slowly mix

3177
03:20:40,160 --> 03:20:43,920
up and be a little messy.

3178
03:20:43,920 --> 03:20:49,840
But we're nearing the end of the plan or the original plan that is.

3179
03:20:49,840 --> 03:20:53,320
So this is where the fun begins.

3180
03:20:53,320 --> 03:20:54,320
Yeah.

3181
03:20:54,320 --> 03:20:58,160
I just realized I had my dates all wrong.

3182
03:20:58,160 --> 03:20:59,920
This is where the fun begins.

3183
03:20:59,920 --> 03:21:03,720
The fun's been going on for quite some time, but we need help.

3184
03:21:03,720 --> 03:21:12,160
Help more people come see what we're doing because we're Joseph and I and all the people

3185
03:21:12,160 --> 03:21:13,160
who are involved in the Dow.

3186
03:21:13,160 --> 03:21:15,360
We don't want to be the only ones speaking on this.

3187
03:21:15,360 --> 03:21:19,520
We don't want to be the only ones trying to put four sips.

3188
03:21:19,520 --> 03:21:25,200
If I am the one who puts in half the sips, that would make me sad.

3189
03:21:25,200 --> 03:21:29,840
I don't want there to be some sort of perception that I'm just like flooding the market with

3190
03:21:29,840 --> 03:21:30,880
my sips.

3191
03:21:30,880 --> 03:21:32,520
That's not it at all.

3192
03:21:32,520 --> 03:21:38,960
I'm excited, but we want other people to have these competing ideas because in that, the

3193
03:21:38,960 --> 03:21:45,960
best answer will emerge from there, like the marketplace of ideas.

3194
03:21:45,960 --> 03:21:49,640
So thank you for helping me work through this, Joseph.

3195
03:21:49,640 --> 03:21:52,520
I feel a lot better about this whole situation.

3196
03:21:52,520 --> 03:21:54,320
I think I can articulate it now better.

3197
03:21:54,320 --> 03:21:59,000
I'm going to end up stealing some of your words that I've written down in the slides.

3198
03:21:59,000 --> 03:22:00,360
Sounds great, man.

3199
03:22:00,360 --> 03:22:01,360
Thank you.

3200
03:22:01,360 --> 03:22:02,360
Yeah.

3201
03:22:02,360 --> 03:22:07,720
So later on today, we'll be interviewing Crypto Diplo, who's the author for SIP number 13

3202
03:22:07,720 --> 03:22:13,560
and getting to know his NFT crafting and drop SIP, which a lot of studios seem to be in

3203
03:22:13,560 --> 03:22:15,160
favor of right now.

3204
03:22:15,160 --> 03:22:16,400
It's very technical.

3205
03:22:16,400 --> 03:22:18,200
I kind of understand it.

3206
03:22:18,200 --> 03:22:25,120
You basically get to airdrop NFTs from the game into people's wallets and then crafting

3207
03:22:25,120 --> 03:22:30,840
an NFT, so like if you put in wood or whatever and then it will craft an NFT into your wallet

3208
03:22:30,840 --> 03:22:33,000
from the game's actions.

3209
03:22:33,000 --> 03:22:35,840
I think that's where you wanted to go with that.

3210
03:22:35,840 --> 03:22:38,920
And Pepe came right out and said, absolutely do this.

3211
03:22:38,920 --> 03:22:41,680
I think I saw Touche as well.

3212
03:22:41,680 --> 03:22:44,280
There seemed to be some immediate positive feedback.

3213
03:22:44,280 --> 03:22:47,960
So I need to understand a little better just by asking questions.

3214
03:22:47,960 --> 03:22:53,680
So a lay person, someone who's not technically savvy can understand what's being asked because

3215
03:22:53,680 --> 03:22:57,720
it seems important and significant to the creator community.

3216
03:22:57,720 --> 03:23:00,200
So that'll happen later today.

3217
03:23:00,200 --> 03:23:07,000
And then some other stuff happening coming up with CityDao and see if I can't get ApecoinDao

3218
03:23:07,000 --> 03:23:10,040
scheduled here in the next week or two.

3219
03:23:10,040 --> 03:23:11,040
Thank you so much, man.

3220
03:23:11,040 --> 03:23:12,040
It was good.

3221
03:23:12,040 --> 03:23:15,320
It was good being with you.

3222
03:23:15,320 --> 03:23:19,400
So for sandbox spaces, if you want to get into the conversation like us, like we're

3223
03:23:19,400 --> 03:23:25,560
doing right now, the few different ways you can do it.

3224
03:23:25,560 --> 03:23:30,120
Sandbox has on the Discord a DAO discussion sub channel.

3225
03:23:30,120 --> 03:23:34,420
The sandbox DAO itself has its own forums dedicated to the DAO.

3226
03:23:34,420 --> 03:23:40,960
On Twitter X, there is hashtag SamFam, hashtag sandbox DAO, hashtag the sandbox game, and

3227
03:23:40,960 --> 03:23:43,640
also follow the tweets coming out of the sandbox DAO.

3228
03:23:43,640 --> 03:23:49,640
You'll see myself and a lot of other people in those Twitter threads talking back and

3229
03:23:49,640 --> 03:23:50,640
forth.

3230
03:23:50,640 --> 03:23:56,160
And then during the week on Mondays, Mochaverse Hall, Mondays at 9pm Eastern or 10am Korean

3231
03:23:56,160 --> 03:24:02,360
Standard, that's Mochaverse, Sandbox, Forbes, and Apecoin.

3232
03:24:02,360 --> 03:24:07,760
And then there's Bulls on the Block on Saturday, which is 10am Eastern or 2am Korean Standard.

3233
03:24:07,760 --> 03:24:10,720
That is ApecoinDao and Sandbox.

3234
03:24:10,720 --> 03:24:15,840
And then Coffee with Captain Monday through Friday, they mostly talk just ApecoinDao.

3235
03:24:15,840 --> 03:24:21,160
But if you show up as a sandbox person, you can always propose an agenda item to be discussed.

3236
03:24:21,160 --> 03:24:26,560
And the hosts will talk about that.

3237
03:24:26,560 --> 03:24:33,480
Whale members, so one of the largest landowners in the game is the Whale.me.

3238
03:24:33,480 --> 03:24:35,540
They do natively digital every Tuesday.

3239
03:24:35,540 --> 03:24:37,960
They will also talk about sandbox.

3240
03:24:37,960 --> 03:24:42,520
And then Sandfam Cafe, which is hosted by Bruno, otherwise known as Pickaxe Master.

3241
03:24:42,520 --> 03:24:47,600
He hosts monthly podcasts and interviews.

3242
03:24:47,600 --> 03:24:51,880
I think weren't you on one not long ago, Joseph?

3243
03:24:51,880 --> 03:24:54,560
You know, maybe.

3244
03:24:54,560 --> 03:24:57,640
Yeah, maybe at this point.

3245
03:24:57,640 --> 03:25:01,720
But Sandfam Cafe, he might be putting them on pause.

3246
03:25:01,720 --> 03:25:03,960
But as of right now, I think were you on one with AU24k?

3247
03:25:03,960 --> 03:25:04,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3248
03:25:04,960 --> 03:25:05,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3249
03:25:05,960 --> 03:25:08,680
So it was like last month, I think.

3250
03:25:08,680 --> 03:25:11,480
So he still does them monthly.

3251
03:25:11,480 --> 03:25:17,080
And they're more of like on the creator side of the sandbox game side, whereas Sandow podcast

3252
03:25:17,080 --> 03:25:21,800
mostly centered around what's going on in the Dow and all the things that intersect

3253
03:25:21,800 --> 03:25:23,480
with us there.

3254
03:25:23,480 --> 03:25:25,600
So all right, man.

3255
03:25:25,600 --> 03:25:27,960
Last thing, who should we raid?

3256
03:25:27,960 --> 03:25:31,040
Who is online?

3257
03:25:31,040 --> 03:25:32,600
Who's who's readable?

3258
03:25:32,600 --> 03:25:33,880
Yep.

3259
03:25:33,880 --> 03:25:36,360
Still knows everybody we raid, you know what I mean?

3260
03:25:36,360 --> 03:25:39,640
Are you about to go on?

3261
03:25:39,640 --> 03:25:42,720
I don't I'm looking at the it's just me.

3262
03:25:42,720 --> 03:25:46,280
I'm the only one on right now for sandbox.

3263
03:25:46,280 --> 03:25:48,200
Let's look at friends.

3264
03:25:48,200 --> 03:25:52,520
So if you see someone on your friends list, you want to raid, shout them out.

3265
03:25:52,520 --> 03:25:55,440
I'm looking and.

3266
03:25:55,440 --> 03:26:01,720
What's that?

3267
03:26:01,720 --> 03:26:02,720
Username J cluster.

3268
03:26:02,720 --> 03:26:03,720
J cluster.

3269
03:26:03,720 --> 03:26:04,720
Who's that?

3270
03:26:04,720 --> 03:26:05,720
One word.

3271
03:26:05,720 --> 03:26:08,840
They're playing a game called Big Time.

3272
03:26:08,840 --> 03:26:09,840
It's Web 3.

3273
03:26:09,840 --> 03:26:10,840
Raid J cluster.

3274
03:26:10,840 --> 03:26:11,840
Right.

3275
03:26:11,840 --> 03:26:12,840
Just that.

3276
03:26:12,840 --> 03:26:13,840
Yep.

3277
03:26:13,840 --> 03:26:24,160
OK, so we will raid J cluster and then outro ourselves out.

3278
03:26:24,160 --> 03:26:28,160
Make sure I got the name right.

3279
03:26:28,160 --> 03:26:31,440
Big time, big time showdown grind begins.

3280
03:26:31,440 --> 03:26:35,080
Yep, that it.

3281
03:26:35,080 --> 03:26:36,080
Yeah.

3282
03:26:36,080 --> 03:26:39,080
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

3283
03:26:39,080 --> 03:26:46,040
All right, so we start the raid and OK, how to hell says J cluster is a Web 3 gamer in

3284
03:26:46,040 --> 03:26:47,040
front of San Fam.

3285
03:26:47,040 --> 03:26:50,480
All right, so the raid countdown has begun.

3286
03:26:50,480 --> 03:26:52,280
Joseph, thanks for your time, man.

3287
03:26:52,280 --> 03:26:55,440
I really appreciate you applying your critical thinking skills.

3288
03:26:55,440 --> 03:26:56,440
All of this.

3289
03:26:56,440 --> 03:27:01,360
Yeah, anytime, as I said, whenever you like, be the last time we discuss.

3290
03:27:01,360 --> 03:27:06,120
A hard topic, but it was it was challenging to work through it and not at all obvious

3291
03:27:06,120 --> 03:27:07,580
what the answer should be.

3292
03:27:07,580 --> 03:27:10,600
And we are definitely not the only ones talking about this.

3293
03:27:10,600 --> 03:27:11,600
Please get involved.

3294
03:27:11,600 --> 03:27:12,600
Vote.

3295
03:27:12,600 --> 03:27:17,080
There's a sip going on right now that would could use your help and we'll hit the raid

3296
03:27:17,080 --> 03:27:18,080
button.

3297
03:27:18,080 --> 03:27:32,360
I would take the floor.

3298
03:27:32,360 --> 03:27:40,100
Yeah.