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Alright everybody, welcome to Sandel Podcast number 17.

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We are in the 17th episode and I think we've only been going for like 60 days.

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But today I have someone who you all will almost definitely recognize.

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I know him as Pickaxe Master, but I don't even really know if that's the way what he

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goes as in the community.

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So that'll be one of my first questions when we go to introductions.

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But Pickaxe Master, the host of Sand Fam Cafe, he's also been in the community as a creator

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for a long time.

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And we're going to get to know him, learn his perspective.

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I have a list of questions related to Sand Fam Cafe, to the DAO and other things.

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And yeah, Pickaxe Master itself is an experience, a couple experiences that I will also drop

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the link to while we're discussing so that you all can check out his stuff.

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But welcome, Pickaxe Master, and we'll get started.

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Hey, Lansley, thank you so much for having me and hello everyone that joined in.

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By the way, you can call me Bruno.

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I think everyone calls me by my own name.

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I don't get by the nickname and all of that and just stick around.

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But hey, thanks for having me and hope everyone's having a nice day.

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Yeah.

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So the scope of the talk today is a meet and greet and then learning opportunity.

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That's our disclaimer is we do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.

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We are not your financial or legal advisors and nothing Pickaxe Master Bruno and I say

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is to be taken as financial legal advice.

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It's true for me.

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Is it also true for you, Bruno?

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Yep, it is very much true for me.

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Awesome.

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Cool.

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So we have two SIPs open for voting right now.

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It is the Sandbox Academy in the Philippines by Mark Bago and the second one is a Sandbox

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Ambassador Program by TSB.

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Please go vote.

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The last two SIPs that just closed a few days ago did not get quorum, so they did not pass.

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So as you can see now, that SIPs not approved is now three instead of one.

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And that's because the NFT collection with Arthmore and the blockchain events in 2024

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in Asia for the studios, both of those did not pass, unfortunately.

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So these two, please go vote.

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That is quorum.

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They didn't even make 50% and that is tough.

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That's really, really tough.

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So there's also a SIP on the draft, NFT evolution, crafting NFT drops.

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It seems to be more technical one.

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So Pepe loves it.

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I don't fully understand it, but I see it enough to say that it seems like it's going

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to be a good thing for creators.

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So I mean, I'll support it, but I'm going to try and get them on the podcast as well.

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And the checkbook did not change.

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So we're still at 13% of our budget having been spent on SIPs.

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And because the previous two didn't pass, that number did not change.

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So we are at 13%?

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13%, so 1.9 million sand has been spent out of our 15.5 million.

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And that's just from the approved SIPs.

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The one thing I realized it did not track was some of the expenses being taken out by

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the DAO team that was approved there.

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And I thought I captured everything because each SIP, I have its costs.

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So SIP 2 was 242,000 sand.

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I think that's the max that they're allowed to spend, although I'm not sure.

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That's only what the SIP said.

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And then SIP 4 was 400,000 and all that.

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So that's what I'm going off of is what was approved via the SIPs.

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Because ideally, that's the only amount that should be approved to be taken out of the

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budget.

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So we'll see.

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But that's, I'm tracking that part.

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But 1.9 million sand is what's been approved thus far.

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And then DAObase.ai is quickly becoming a big measuring tool for the sandbox DAO.

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There are 1,800 voters and 211,000 token holders.

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So I'm still trying to figure out what exactly that part works, how that works.

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But I just got a podcast with Mia Bao, who runs the DAObase.ai and she's an advisory

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board member on Sunday.

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So that was really cool to listen to her perspective.

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But we're not here for that.

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Today we're here for Pickaxe Master, otherwise known as Bruno.

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So there's his Twitter handle at Pickaxe underscore master.

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And also, he runs a very interesting podcast called Sandfam Cafe, which is, in my opinion,

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the OG of podcasting in the sandbox, where he does monthly podcasts with different people.

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Last one he did last month was with AU24K, Pepe, Boxeljam, and then Joseph, who's known

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as Vision X, some heavy hitters and OG in the community.

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He's been active for a while.

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Shakespeare, which he just rated me the other day again.

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Thank you again, Shakespeare.

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Vpire, Sanzeus.

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If you just scroll through his feed, you'll see that he has done, I think, five episodes

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now.

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Six episodes.

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Six episodes so far.

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So that's been half a year.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that's I've been watching his podcast really eager to communicate with him.

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And I didn't know I was going to do my own podcast until the Dow.

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That's when I knew.

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So I've been looking to get in touch with him for some time.

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And so, yeah, Pickaxe, Bruno, if you would please introduce yourself, where you come

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from and how you got to here.

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Okay.

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So my name is Bruno.

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I'm the founder of the Pickaxe Master and pretty much started all there.

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I know that I have a blurry background, but everything started as a board game.

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So originally I came as a board game dev.

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Of course, from my past experience, I've been a CEO of a billboard company for about seven,

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eight, seven, eight years.

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Also been a musician that was fortunate enough to travel all the world and playing all sorts

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of venues from little places to stadiums.

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And then I started, I consider myself a very creative person.

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So as long as I'm creating, I'm good.

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I've also wrote a book.

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And then my last endeavor was creating board games.

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And then when I discovered about NFTs, I was looking back then into what was the central

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end and the sandbox.

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And I was like, okay, this feels like the place to go.

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And it felt it was just the continuation of the board game, bringing into Web3 with the

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no code program, such as the Game Maker and VoxEdit.

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And pretty much just natural flu that way.

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So that's how I joined the sandbox.

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It was just the overall interest of Web3 gaming and then understanding that there's more than

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just Web3 gaming, but also Web3 for creators like myself.

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That sounds very similar to how I got into the sandbox as well.

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It just felt like the right way to go.

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And I was faced with Decentraland or Sandbox.

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And when I compared the two, eventually I went with Sandbox because of the way it looked,

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the way the partnerships they had.

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It just felt like the right way to go.

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And I don't regret my decision at all.

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You said some things that were really fascinating.

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You were a billboard CEO?

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Yeah.

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So I did campaigns for a lot of brands during those seven, eight years.

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And so like physical billboards, like when you pass them?

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Yeah, physical.

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Okay.

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If you don't mind me saying about what region are you in?

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So I'm right now I'm based in Portugal.

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I was born in Portugal, but I spent half of my life in Africa, in Angola.

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Angola?

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This is fascinating.

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Okay.

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So you were born in Portugal or you were born in Angola?

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Yeah, I was born in Portugal.

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Then I went when I was 12 to Angola because my parents got an invitation to work there

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and as a little children as I was, I was like, yeah, sure, let's go.

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So I kind of was raised there.

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Then I came back for my studies for college, university.

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How they call it.

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And I came back to work there.

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And then when COVID hit, I was already kind of quit, but when I quit the company just

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went like downhill and they're like, Bruno, we need you back.

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So they got to hire me again.

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I was like, no, I don't want to do this anymore.

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But they hired me again.

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And until COVID hit, I was like, I don't want to be stuck here during COVID.

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So that's when I finally came back to Portugal for goods.

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I still worked, managed the company like remotely, but I was like, yeah, this is not possible.

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Not managing a company, not being there.

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It's not not good for you.

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It's not good for me.

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It's just a distant headache.

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And Angola is in southern South America.

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So above Africa.

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I mean, I'm in Africa.

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I'm in Africa.

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So Namibia, the Dominican Republic of Congo.

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Namibia, Botswana.

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Yeah, Botswana.

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So it looks like.

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Really cool places, by the way.

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What's that?

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Really cool places, by the way.

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So they it looks like they also speak Portugal and Angola or what language do they speak?

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They do.

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They do speak Portuguese.

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That's the main language.

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Although there's like 80 or 20 dialects, depending on which region you are.

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So they speak.

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What what languages did you learn in Angola?

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I didn't learn any.

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I learned a couple of words.

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Because the dialect is very different.

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Very, very, very different.

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So they spoke Portuguese and Angola.

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Yeah.

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Got it.

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OK.

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I know a few words from other dialects, but they're just very different from what we talk.

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So it's kind of hard to keep up with the conversation.

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It's like, yeah.

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You know, when you go to a foreign country, you go to France, you'll be like, oh, bonjour.

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And everyone's like, oh, he's a tourist because it's just those specific words.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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So you're from Portugal.

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You were raised in Angola.

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You came back to Portugal.

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You were a Billboard CEO of a sounds like a successful company there.

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And then were you a musician after that or you a board games developer?

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So actually, I was a musician before.

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And the musician has always been like a hobby that at some point I feel like I had two jobs

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because I was doing these mix up of rock and roll with rap in Africa.

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So I'm not sure if you know that, but besides like really South Africa, rock and roll, it isn't much a thing there.

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Usually because they have a strong religious belief and usually the propaganda regarding that is usually like,

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that's the song of the devil, that's imperialism song and all of that.

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So I used to go to TV shows and people would be like, oh, you actually look normal for a rock and roll dude.

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I was like, yeah, I'm pretty much normal.

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Like you're a rock and roll dude.

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OK, yeah, I am a rock and roll dude.

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Were you like a bassist, a guitarist, a vocalist?

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Actually, I am a bassist and used to do back vocals more like it.

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Yeah.

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Is it offensive as I say, I would have completely tagged you as a bassist.

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Just you got the bassist vibe about you.

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I'm proud about being a bassist.

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You've got the bassist vibe about you, man.

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That would have been my number one pick.

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It's just someone in the background going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Yeah.

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Pretty much enjoyed it.

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And that was a wild ride.

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So because also of that, so one thing I always strive at, anything I do is to be professional.

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So while there, everything kind of goes towards the unprofessionalism, having like these bands that it's kind of soft, fresh, breath of air, doing things in a professional way and also have the contacts with brands because I worked in advertising.

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I was able to actually get a couple of deals for the band, which is Mvula.

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While being in the band, we were one, two times as the best African rock back in 2015 and 2016 back to back.

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And we got to be invited to play in a lot of places in Angola.

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We kind of traveled at least often in Angola, in Africa.

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We played almost in half Africa and it was pretty crazy to be playing at from stadiums to all sorts of festivals and people just looking at the crowd because there you've got like Kizomba, Kuduro, all those more native type of sounds and people just like kind of either be shocked or be surprised or be disgusted.

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It was such a mix of feelings I would see in the audience and I would love it.

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But there were harsh times.

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We would get a lot of boos because people, they're there for the dancing, they're there for the love songs and then they get like this sort of anti-system rock rap thing and be like, what's this?

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That's wild, man. That's wild.

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So you traveled throughout Africa?

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Yeah.

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And Africa is big so you can't just like drive from one end to the other.

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It's huge.

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Neither. It's very much recommended.

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We went by plane.

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Gotcha.

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Where's the furthest that you went to to play?

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So thinking geographically in Angola, I think it was Ethiopia.

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Ethiopia? Oh, that's way up north.

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00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,960
Or Senegal.

239
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,960
There it is. Ethiopia right next to Djibouti and Entrea.

240
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,960
Somalia.

241
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,960
You said Ethiopia and where else?

242
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,960
Or Senegal.

243
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,960
Senegal.

244
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,960
There it is on the, oh, they're right to Mauritania.

245
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:44,960
On the other side, yeah.

246
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,960
The Gambia.

247
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:47,960
Mali.

248
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,960
Okay.

249
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:49,960
Wow.

250
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,960
We also played in Mali as well.

251
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:52,960
Played in Mali as well.

252
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,960
We also played in Gambia as well.

253
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,960
In Ghana or Gambia?

254
00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,960
Gambia.

255
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:01,960
Oh, Gambia, Gambia. Okay.

256
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,960
I know you can't see it right now because it's blurred, but I've got a drum, a djinbe right there.

257
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:08,960
Okay.

258
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,960
That's from Ghana.

259
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,960
Those places, they have incredible local craftsmanship.

260
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,960
Let's put it that way.

261
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:22,960
This.

262
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:23,960
That's a djinbe.

263
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:24,960
Yeah.

264
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:25,960
That's a big one.

265
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:26,960
Oh yeah, yeah.

266
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,960
I used to play quite a bit.

267
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:30,960
The djinbe.

268
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,960
I bet the neighbors love it.

269
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:34,960
Oh yeah.

270
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:41,960
Well, I would go to like drum circles and stuff where I am and you know, they'd have all the different instruments.

271
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960
And I would love, I'd play the djinbe.

272
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,960
So, I was a big, big fan.

273
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:54,960
Hell yeah.

274
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,960
Yeah, that's a big boy right there.

275
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:57,960
Yeah, yeah.

276
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:58,960
It's big.

277
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,960
But you know, you play with it on the ground.

278
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,960
But then, you know, you're in Africa.

279
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,960
Did you?

280
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:09,960
Dang, that's cool.

281
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,960
That is a cool history.

282
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,960
And so, how did you get into being a board game developer?

283
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,960
I started playing board games very little.

284
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,960
I think I learned chess like about when I was five or something.

285
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,960
And it's just naturally my parents like to play, for example, mahjong.

286
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,960
They would play card games.

287
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:33,960
They would play board games.

288
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,960
So, I was kind of grew into this type of thing.

289
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,960
Then I went into TCGs as Magic the Gathering.

290
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,960
Then consoles came out and I started to play consoles.

291
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,960
What's your favorite deck in Magic the Gathering?

292
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,960
Oof, probably white and red.

293
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,960
Back then, it was like type two.

294
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,960
It wasn't with all these crazy expansions.

295
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,960
But it was like a mix of reds and whites.

296
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,960
Mine is a red burn deck.

297
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,960
That was always my go-to.

298
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,960
Funny story, we kept the cards.

299
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,960
After like 25 years, I was like, yeah, we don't play Magic for like about 25 years.

300
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:10,960
You know what?

301
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,960
We sold a couple of cards and all the family went on vacation.

302
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,960
With that sale.

303
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,960
You sold all the cards and then you went on vacation?

304
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,960
It's just a couple of those.

305
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,960
Like the most rare we had back then.

306
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,960
I remember back then was like, what?

307
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:28,960
Spending $20 on a card?

308
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,960
That is mad expensive.

309
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,960
I was like, yeah, but let's get it.

310
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,960
Myself, 10, 9-year-old guy to my dad.

311
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,960
Let's buy that $20 card.

312
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,960
And then 25 years later, we're like, yeah, let's sell the card for $200.

313
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:43,960
Yeah.

314
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:44,960
So we just sold a bunch of those.

315
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,960
Went to family vacation to Ireland.

316
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,960
I was like, good.

317
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,960
We were playing cards back then.

318
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,960
But fast forward.

319
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:59,960
If you recall, Engage, which was the first gaming cell phone by Nokia.

320
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:04,960
And this was like 2002, 2003.

321
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,960
I don't even recall that that much.

322
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:13,960
But they had the Symbian operation system that was like the first OS on mobile that got us to play games.

323
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,960
And that's when I started to become like, oh, I want to do this, but I don't know how to program.

324
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,960
So kind of assembled a bunch of kids.

325
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,960
I was like, okay, I lead a project.

326
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:23,960
Who's going to program?

327
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,960
And every kid was like, not me, not me, not me.

328
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,960
You can imagine.

329
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,960
It just died there.

330
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,960
Fast forward.

331
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,960
We still have the tradition.

332
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:40,960
Like when all the families together, we have dinner, we clean up the table, we bring a board game, and we have a family session.

333
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:41,960
Nice.

334
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,960
And so I was already.

335
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,960
No, no, go ahead.

336
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,960
So I was just about to come fast forward again.

337
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:58,960
Is that back in 2018, I decided just for fun to do a board game, which was kind of bringing music related.

338
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,960
But it just I hired an artist and all that, but just grew too complex.

339
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,960
I was having a really hard time to explain.

340
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,960
I was like, OK, Bruno, why do you first board game like as these super complex game?

341
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,960
OK, grab it or put it aside.

342
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,960
Do the most simple game.

343
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,960
And it was OK.

344
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:15,960
I did it.

345
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,960
This place, it's easy to play.

346
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:17,960
Good.

347
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,960
Then COVID also hits.

348
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,960
We got all locked up.

349
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,960
All the family got together.

350
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,960
I was like, OK, since we cannot leave the house, at least we get to be with each other.

351
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,960
We played all the games, still exhaustion.

352
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,960
And then we're like, OK, what if.

353
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,960
So my sister is also an artist.

354
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,960
She's a painter, also illustrator.

355
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,960
I was like, why don't we do our own board game?

356
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:43,960
Let's grab the mechanics we like the most from our favorite games and just bundle them and see what we can come up.

357
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,960
So with all of that was like, OK, these all of this, it kind of feels like it's a mining game.

358
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,960
And that's how the PICAS Masa was born.

359
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960
Born out of your board game.

360
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:56,960
Yeah.

361
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,960
What was the board game called?

362
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,960
And he didn't have a name.

363
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,960
It was just the board game.

364
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,960
The board game.

365
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,960
So the board game about mining turned into PICX Master.

366
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,960
The game, the real game here in not really, but the game here in Sandbox.

367
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:15,960
OK, exactly.

368
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,960
And then, of course, the board game was like PICX Master.

369
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,960
Yeah, now that makes sense to me.

370
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,960
That is fascinating how all that works.

371
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,960
By the way, Go West said that he is a red and green deck.

372
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:36,960
So maybe one day we'll all go at it and Magic the Gathering online or something.

373
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:37,960
It was stolen.

374
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:38,960
That's unfortunate.

375
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,960
Yeah, he said it was stolen.

376
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,960
Yeah, that sucks.

377
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,960
Red and black.

378
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,960
OK, like a Necro burn deck.

379
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:47,960
All right.

380
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:48,960
Cool.

381
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,960
I see we have a lot of Magic the Gathering folks here.

382
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,960
Yeah, I see that now.

383
00:20:52,960 --> 00:21:02,960
So it started first with chess and that and mining board game became PICX Master.

384
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,960
What a great segue.

385
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,960
So that's what led you to the Sandbox then.

386
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,960
Exactly.

387
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,960
How did you first find the Sandbox?

388
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,960
Just searching or what?

389
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,960
Yeah, pretty much.

390
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,960
It was like I heard the reason why I joined Web3 actually was as a player standpoint.

391
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:28,960
I was like, OK, so as a huge gamer, I was playing a game called Anarchy Online back in 20,000.

392
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,960
Early 20,000.

393
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,960
It was one of the first MMORPGs.

394
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:38,960
And one of the things that it was banned, it was the trading for real cash with in-game assets.

395
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:39,960
And what was it?

396
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,960
That was burden because Anarchy Online.

397
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,960
Oh, Anarchy.

398
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:44,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

399
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,960
OK, got it.

400
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:46,960
Got you.

401
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,960
You remember that?

402
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:48,960
Yeah.

403
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:49,960
Yeah, I remember.

404
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,960
Nice, nice.

405
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,960
It was a really good game.

406
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,960
I didn't play it a whole lot.

407
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,960
I didn't play it a whole lot, but I did play it a little bit because it was one of the back then.

408
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960
There were only a small list of games that you could play.

409
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:02,960
And it was one of them.

410
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,960
It was math complex.

411
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:04,960
I just love the complexity.

412
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,960
And then, of course, World of Warcraft launched and just it was what it was.

413
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:17,960
The success that it still is today kind of took the MMORPG podium for a long time.

414
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,960
But what did I mention this game?

415
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,960
You joined as a player and you joined during season one.

416
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,960
Which season?

417
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,960
It was before Alpha season one.

418
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:28,960
Four?

419
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,960
OK.

420
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,960
Yeah, before.

421
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,960
It was not even announced when I joined in.

422
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,960
It was like GameMaker 0.6, something like that.

423
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:46,960
So that was the reason why I searched for Web3 because I've got told about NFTs and it was mainly art use.

424
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,960
The art use case.

425
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,960
I was like, not totally convinced about that, but OK.

426
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,960
I guess we're in the digital era.

427
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,960
So proving ownership of the digital.

428
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:56,960
Everyone can copy.

429
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,960
OK, I can understand that.

430
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,960
But you have the physical.

431
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:01,960
OK, whatever.

432
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,960
But then someone told me like, but NFT is gaming.

433
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,960
It can be a weapon.

434
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,960
It can be.

435
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,960
I was like, OK, I like that narrative so much better.

436
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,960
I resonate with that narrative.

437
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,960
So that was like, OK, Web3.

438
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:14,960
What do you got?

439
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,960
And back then was it was so few things.

440
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960
It was Axie Infinity.

441
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,960
It was the Centralland.

442
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,960
It was the sandbox.

443
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,960
What else was there?

444
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,960
It wasn't much out there.

445
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,960
Like really wasn't much out there.

446
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,960
That was something playable.

447
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,960
You know, everything else was just in development.

448
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,960
So I look at it was like, OK, this feels like Minecraft.

449
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,960
And you can build on top of it and you can play.

450
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,960
So it's even better than just playing a Web3 game that you own the assets.

451
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,960
You can also build a game.

452
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:59,960
So yeah, it was then it was just a matter of a decision between the Centralland and between the sandbox and looking at the features, parts, roadmaps.

453
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:05,960
Back then, the sandbox was like, yeah, this feels like the place to go.

454
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,960
And and so did you join as a crew?

455
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:09,960
No, you said you joined as a player.

456
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,960
How long before you were a creator after that?

457
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,960
No, after I see that I never joined as a player.

458
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,960
You've never joined as a player.

459
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,960
You're just a creator from the beginning.

460
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,960
Yeah, the reason I got attracted to Web3 was as a player.

461
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,960
But when I discovered that you could be a creator in Web3, I was like, scrap all of playing.

462
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:30,960
Let's create.

463
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,960
And it was that you said zero point six.

464
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,960
Yeah.

465
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,960
Wow.

466
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,960
I don't think I even joined until I think it was point eight, maybe.

467
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,960
What are we on now?

468
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960
You skipped a lot of trouble.

469
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960
Yeah, it is a ten.

470
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,960
Ten.

471
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,960
I think I joined at the end of point eight.

472
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,960
You skipped a lot of trouble.

473
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,960
I heard I heard.

474
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,960
And and I'm more of a publisher than I am in there doing blocks and stuff.

475
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,960
So even then, I didn't understand it until I started till floor droppers, really.

476
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,960
Which is not long ago.

477
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:19,960
OK, so you you joined as a creator during point six and your mining bit board game, your actual physical mining board game.

478
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,960
That's what inspired you to make Pickaxe Master.

479
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,960
Was that your first one?

480
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,960
Can you repeat the question?

481
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,960
So your first experience was it Pickaxe Master?

482
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,960
No, no, I had built two other board games before.

483
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,960
No, I mean, in sandbox was Pickaxe Master your first.

484
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,960
Oh, yeah.

485
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,960
First and only.

486
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,960
First and only. So you have Temple of the don't tell me what on Temple of the Four Winds.

487
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:53,960
Yeah.

488
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:03,960
And then you also have Misty Mountains and Misty Mountains is the one that I saw first whenever I I for because Misty Mountains to me, it's been there for a while.

489
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,960
And I played it.

490
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,960
It's been there for almost three years.

491
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Yeah. So I played it a number of times at this point.

492
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,960
But here it is.

493
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,960
I'm showing on screen and I'm going to post it in chat.

494
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,960
So.

495
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:24,960
Pickaxe Master Misty Mountains and so tell me about those two.

496
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,960
Are they different parts of your board game or is it just it made sense to make two of them?

497
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,960
So we tried to do an adaptation of the board game, but it was impossible due to the game maker limitations.

498
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:50,960
Right now we probably can do better imitation, but it stills the turn based type of thing in the sandbox for multiplayer still very rather limited.

499
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,960
So we decided to go like, OK, let's do an adaptation.

500
00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:01,960
Let's think about the concept, which is mining, getting resources, acquiring pickaxes and just go into a sort of web three.

501
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:10,960
So our original idea, which is what we actually want to do and we have not been able with something as simple as you go to the game.

502
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:17,960
You have one sand and you with one sand, let's say you purchase pickaxes and you got yourself 1000 pickaxes with one sand.

503
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:18,960
You go mining.

504
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,960
Each block would consume an X amount of pickaxe and would give you a reward.

505
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:32,960
You could either take this reward as an NFT that you can store in your wallet and then you can use it later on to either craft or buy stuff or whatever.

506
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,960
Or you could sort of transform those resources you just mine back into sand.

507
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,960
So it was very simple game.

508
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,960
The first goal is like, OK, this is where three.

509
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,960
It needs to have a strong economy.

510
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960
So the first thing was create a strong economy.

511
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,960
If we can create a strong economy that is based on acquiring.

512
00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:08,960
Pickaxes with sand with a token and then with that with those pickaxes acquiring, then all of these gems and resources, then we can build everything on top of that because we have established an economy.

513
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,960
So it was pretty simple.

514
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,960
The way in the way out and we just had to build on top of it.

515
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,960
But some transactions are still not the reality.

516
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,960
So we kind of.

517
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:30,960
And that was the basic of all things like the core gameplay, the monetization as well, the structure of an economy to build on top of it.

518
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,960
So we had to pivot and adapt from there literally.

519
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,960
So the point of the game is to earn pickaxes.

520
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,960
No, the goal of the game is to earn resources.

521
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,960
The pickaxes are just a mean to to get those resources.

522
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,960
You're picking up pickaxes.

523
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,960
You're buying pickaxes.

524
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:54,960
You're buying them.

525
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,960
What can you buy them now?

526
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:06,960
Well, so since we cannot have transactions with sand, when you enter the game, we give you a 2000 masters that will give you the entry just to play the game.

527
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,960
So you have to pivot on that.

528
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Yeah.

529
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:17,960
And so the the the sip that's in draft right now, so it will go to vote in two weeks, seems like it will help with that.

530
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,960
The recipes that you can.

531
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,960
That can turn into on change transactions.

532
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,960
So maybe that's changing.

533
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,960
Maybe.

534
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,960
Which one?

535
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,960
It's under sip ideas.

536
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,960
Oh, sip draft.

537
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:42,960
It's called NFT evolution, crafting and NFT drops inside sandbox.

538
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960
You're taking me now this one.

539
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,960
So I go over proposal.

540
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,960
I'm going to go this as someone that's watching.

541
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,960
Probably they also want to know like how to reach there.

542
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,960
So it's forum at sandbox.com.

543
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,960
Right.

544
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,960
And then we go there.

545
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,960
We click on proposals.

546
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:06,960
So when you go there, you go to forums, click on proposals and click on sip drafts.

547
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,960
And then the fair top one, you'll see my face, but NFT evolution and crafting and NFT drops.

548
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,960
That is me.

549
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,960
I replied last.

550
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:21,960
You click that and then you'll see a picture at the top.

551
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:32,960
Someone at a table and then TLDR is to all the stuff that it is, but it basically is crafters can set up a recipe to trade an asset for another asset.

552
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:47,960
So potentially that could be trading sand for for buying things and NFT drops where once they complete a quest and they get a certain NFT in in their wallet or this one on the claims page.

553
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,960
That would be very dope.

554
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:57,960
I think that if you align this with the persistent feature, which is a being able to save people can kind of have an objective right now.

555
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,960
So we'll be like, OK, I'm logging in today.

556
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:04,960
I'm going to play for these 31 hour, 30 minutes, one hour that I have available to play.

557
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,960
I would get these amount of.

558
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:08,960
Let's call it diamonds.

559
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,960
And every day I was trying to.

560
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:21,960
Hustle on getting more diamonds until I can reach OK, I got 100 diamonds now I can trade those diamonds for a piece pickaxe, for example.

561
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:29,960
So and being able to do that in game and get the end of transaction to actually get the NFT in my wallet.

562
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:30,960
It's it's a step.

563
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:31,960
It's a major step.

564
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,960
I think that it will help out so many different games.

565
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,960
Yeah, well, that's what Pepe responded back to because I didn't fully understand it.

566
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,960
I'm not a game developer, so I'm looking at that and it's it's outside of my expertise.

567
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:52,960
But Pepe is a big fan of it and it reads pretty straightforward to me, even though I don't completely understand.

568
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,960
And so I'm supportive and it sounds like it's going to help you as well.

569
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,960
So your interesting.

570
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,960
Yeah, I'm not sure how the extent this goes.

571
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:10,960
I really will have to look this after after these the podcast just to understand what it happens.

572
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:19,960
So they just say I'm just reading this out loud, the ability to fully recreate the NFT economy and game mechanics of successful crypto games in sandbox.

573
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:20,960
Mm hmm.

574
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,960
OK, that really grabs my attention.

575
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,960
Good.

576
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Yeah, all you creators go in there and read it because it's apparently going to be very helpful for you.

577
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960
So you're going to read this.

578
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960
Yes, you had two experiences for quite a number of years now.

579
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,960
And how did that?

580
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,960
OK, I also saw that you have a pretty extensive website devoted as this as well.

581
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,960
Like you can join clans and connect your wallet.

582
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:51,960
What's going on there?

583
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,960
I never did that portion of it, so I don't really know much about that.

584
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,960
So this is the part that so we got very lucky.

585
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,960
All the team on the pickaxe master as then found on the sandbox.

586
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:13,960
It's just a group of individuals that are very talented and believed in the mission that I wanted to bring alive.

587
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,960
And we teamed up.

588
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,960
So it was a very organic team that formed.

589
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,960
It's all Sanfam as well.

590
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,960
And one of the members is actually a very, very talented programmer.

591
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:31,960
And I was like, I don't know how honestly I don't know how with his programming skills, he actually went to the sandbox as a no coding tool.

592
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:44,960
So I was like, OK, but the fact that he in the sense programming that much, he'd allow to create these websites, which does have a sort of tools that I'm very proud to have them available right now.

593
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,960
So you connect your wallet by connecting your wallet.

594
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960
You create yourself and immediately an account.

595
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,960
It has the security of the login in as to be with the signature transaction.

596
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,960
So you don't spend you just.

597
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:10,960
I don't know the technical details, but it's pretty much what you do on open seats, pretty much what you do on the sandbox is just that signing, which I believe it's the key factor of securing the of bringing security.

598
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,960
Now, with that, you can put yourself your username as well.

599
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,960
And you got yourself an account.

600
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:24,960
Now, what we have here and the reason why we built the websites, because we want to have as many leaderboards as possible and we would need a place to bundle them up.

601
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:39,960
So originally on the first seasons, which were done manual, they were also a big, big headache because we had the competitions for like who is the best coal miner, who's the best iron miner, who's the best copper miner, silver, gold, emerald.

602
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:40,960
You can name it.

603
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,960
There's already quite a few leaderboards there and having to run everything manual is just being a pain.

604
00:34:45,960 --> 00:35:06,960
So this is one of the reasons because we can sort of display all of these leaderboards here and once, hopefully, when we get access to APIs, then we can just run these automatically super easy just to get the whatever information on the website on the game on the sandbox.

605
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,960
We just grab those and sort filter, organize it as we wish here on our website.

606
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,960
So that is one way. The second is so that's more like individual play.

607
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:33,960
Now, one of the things that personally myself have experienced as playing MMORPG was was that even other games that I would most likely have stayed longer in a game because of the friends I've done along the way.

608
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:47,960
So, for example, back again on Anarchy Online, I probably would have quit the game sooner if I was not part of a big alliance that I would log in, I would raid with them, I would play with them and just like you create a bond.

609
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,960
Also, I remember playing one one piece game that I still play today.

610
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960
I've been playing like that game for five years and it's the same.

611
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:03,960
You play it because you found those people you play together you go competitively about it and you just stay there.

612
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:14,960
Not only because you like the game, but because also you create bonds with other players you create friendships, and then it becomes also a second reason to come here and play.

613
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:27,960
So for that reason we created this system which is the clan manager so we have, along with all our leaderboards, we have individual, we have clans, so which is sort of a group leaderboard.

614
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:39,960
Now with this, you do need an avatar to be part of this so it's pretty much exclusive it's not. We have a free to play you don't need anything but for groups you do need an avatar.

615
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:48,960
Now what can be done here. So, for someone that has an avatar, you can either create a clan, or you can join a clan.

616
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,960
When you create a clan, you can create the structure of the clan.

617
00:36:52,960 --> 00:37:08,960
While creating the structure and the parameters of the clan, you can decide which members are going to be invited, they do need to have an avatar and you can only join one clan with one avatar so it's not like with one clan you're part of everyone.

618
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:19,960
And also you can decide who are the eligible members to contribute with your score to the overall clan score.

619
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:29,960
So that is the clan manager, it's pretty much a place where you can manage the clan as, let's call it the leader, or as a member.

620
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:39,960
In terms of gameplay, you play the game, you get your own individual score, and then all the individual scores gets summed up within the clan.

621
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:46,960
And then we have a clan leaderboard, which is literally, clans fighting each other for the top place of the leaderboard.

622
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:57,960
Then we have another tool which is the avatar loan so people can actually rent their avatars that's some of them just purchase like two or three of those but they can only rank with one.

623
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:07,960
So, the extra they both, they put out for loans so we actually managed to get this with our partners which are three tech.

624
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,960
They do an excellent job regarding smart contracts.

625
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:29,960
And we were able to create a duplicate version, but with very limited set of parameters and noticing I'm getting quite technical here, and you're like, let me try to grasp here.

626
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:38,960
So but easy trying to simplify we've created a smart contract that allows you to loan avatars with all the security.

627
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:48,960
Actually, we have a couple of those loans right now with players that. So our avatar cost 380 cent, it's almost 400 cent.

628
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,960
They're quite expensive. And some players were like yeah I wish I could have one, but I don't have 400 cent.

629
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:12,960
So what they can do, they can actually rent out an avatar for a fraction of a price, participate in all of these leaderboards, and then not only be able to pay that loan, but also get a bit back and kind of go season after season, growing the way until they can actually

630
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:29,960
say, okay, I'm going to buy myself one. And we see that that happening people playing in the pickaxe master ecosystem, bundling all the same prizes and then when they actually get it, they purchase an avatar and now they unlocked even more price boots.

631
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:42,960
So the clan manager is just an avat feature for players to join together, play together, and then of course try to get prizes together.

632
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:49,960
I'm surfing through the collection right now. Lucky miner is a mineral monarch.

633
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,960
There's.

634
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,960
Yeah, wow.

635
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,960
The two tribes that we want to launch out of 10 tribes, so it's pretty much still in the beginning.

636
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:01,960
Gotcha.

637
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:13,960
Well, you've been, you definitely I can see how you built this up to be its own, own little universe within sandbox metaverse.

638
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:28,960
Yeah, I'd like to know how this sip, when it goes to vote how that would impact you, please take a look at that because you're seems like you will be heavily impacted by this but but I'd like to know if it really will help you.

639
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960
The NFT evolution one. Yeah.

640
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Okay, so

641
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:48,960
I'm reading this just diagonally, so I've got here an example solution proposed, and I'm going to read a bit out loud so the ability for item creators to set up specific recites within their created assets.

642
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,960
Actually this was something I suggested personally to the sandbox.

643
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,960
Quite a few times.

644
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:10,960
So, to try to trade X number of one asset in return of Y number of another asset so I remember when one of the visits that Sebastian did here in Portugal.

645
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:20,960
I came with him on an idea which was the semi fungible tokens, as opposed to the NFTs was like Sebastian not everything needs to be an NFT.

646
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:32,960
We need stuff that makes games practical. I don't care about ownership, if it's just a pain of these worlds to do that. It's just it's a game people go there to have fun.

647
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:46,960
They don't go there to any other things they have probably 30 minutes one hour maximum one hour and 30 minutes per day to have fun, and that's it. They're going to get to the place that gives them the most fun period.

648
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:55,960
So, we need a system that needs to be simple. It needs to be helpful, either for creators or for players to maximize that fun.

649
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:02,960
So I'm not sure if it goes towards that direction, I would love it would go towards that direction. But let me see what what this says.

650
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:09,960
So this would require some sort of wallet to hold amounts of each asset that would be funded by the mentor. Okay.

651
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:18,960
And could be replenished given proper catalyst and minting process, or simply by sending more of that NFT to the wallet. Okay.

652
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,960
That is interesting.

653
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,960
You can have so many different ways this could apply.

654
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,960
But I guess this will just be with sandbox NFTs, and it would make sense.

655
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,960
It would be like that.

656
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:48,960
So, example someone creates a piece of food, and the stack of food and makes a recipe, such that a player can trade five pieces of food for stuff, sack of food, these would work only while the user has enough of stack of food in stock, and all traded in assets would contribute to

657
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,960
the supply or be burned, depending on configuration.

658
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,960
Okay, so what can I take from here.

659
00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:10,960
So, if you have resources, such as pieces of food, either these are going to be semi fungible tokens, so they just be in game assets, just a variable, you have in your account so you play the game, you're mining.

660
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:27,960
I got three copper, I got five copper, I got 10 copper, I got 20 copper, and the server just says user XYZ has 20 copper in his account. They're not, that's not an NFT, it's just a variable, he has that amount.

661
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:47,960
And then when he goes like, okay, I want to do, I want to use these recipe to transform those into a copper bar, let's say, and I'm going to use those 20 variables and actually mint a copper bar, or either it's like that, or even the copper ores, they are all NFTs.

662
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:57,960
So yeah, let's see, but either way, it feels very, very interesting and very exciting, actually. Does that sound helpful to you and what you're trying to do with Pickaxe Master?

663
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,960
Oh, definitely. Most definitely. Okay, good.

664
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:10,960
Okay, that's pretty much what I wanted to listen to is, if that would actually help you, or if there's some sort of limitation where that's not going to help you yet, but it got you closer.

665
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:20,960
Oh, most definitely. Yeah. Okay, cool. So, for example, I don't even know how could I translate this, but probably need some way arounds.

666
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:35,960
For example, your there's an NFT drops. Example, someone kills a boss and the boss feature as RNG such as 1% of the time, a rare weapon is dropped upon pickup, the item then is added to player claims page, and they can claim it at their leisure.

667
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,960
It's freaking awesome. That is just awesome. Good.

668
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:47,960
Okay, I don't know this creator or this author at all. Even think, I don't even know who it is really.

669
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,960
But, wait, didn't they say the author down below?

670
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,960
Was it?

671
00:44:53,960 --> 00:45:06,960
Yeah, it didn't even say an author that I could find. But in any case, so I just thought it was interesting because Pepe immediately responded down below. And he's in chat, by the way, he says, hello.

672
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,960
He said that is a fantastic suggestions and I'm like, oh, okay.

673
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,960
It is.

674
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:13,960
Okay.

675
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:19,960
Yeah, sounds good. Oh, crypto Diplo. That's right. Crypto Diplo is the author.

676
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:28,960
Okay, here it is. Crypto Diplo. So probably this is the most impactful SIP so far.

677
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Alone for the whole ecosystem.

678
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:41,960
Oh, there it is down there. Crypto Diplo. That's right. I'm sorry, Diplo. I meant to. I did actually see that yesterday.

679
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,960
Okay.

680
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,960
The most impactful you say.

681
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:56,960
Important and impactful, not only as a SIP, but as a development on the sandbox ecosystem.

682
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:57,960
All right.

683
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,960
Diplo, I'm going to be sending you a message, by the way, for us to get together.

684
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:04,960
Oh, yeah.

685
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:18,960
These would have been if I was running GameMaker or whatever, these would have been probably my main, what do I call it, focus.

686
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,960
It's developing stuff like this.

687
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:33,960
And so does that. You know what I found interesting is just the other day when you posted your Creator Tool SIP is some of it was what I was creating a SIP for.

688
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:42,960
But for your Creator SIP, which was closed, and that's where I wanted them to open it back up.

689
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:52,960
But your Creator SIP that you put in the SIP ideas where you wanted to do NFT, say an NFT distribution and claim system.

690
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,960
So it kind of sounds a little bit similar to that.

691
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Would you say?

692
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:05,960
It borrows the same mechanics. So what is the the claiming feature that is something that the sandbox already developed?

693
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,960
So what I'm seeing there is just tools that have already been developed.

694
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,960
So the budget to actually achieve this has already been spent.

695
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,960
It's already been integrated with the sandbox website.

696
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,960
And the SIP just literally goes like, hey, I know that you, the sandbox, use this.

697
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,960
For example, there's now the avatar monthly reward.

698
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,960
Right. And you go to your claims page and you go there like, oh, I got these equipment set.

699
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,960
That's pretty cool. You claim it. Very simple. Right.

700
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:39,960
For us creators, we do competitions. We do all of this. And then we have to send the NFTs.

701
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:46,960
How much professional would it look if you just play the game, you get yourself ranked in the leaderboard that we have seen in Dr. Bunker's Trials.

702
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,960
We have seen in Alpha Season 3.

703
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:56,960
You go to the website along with, for example, you go to the experience page and you have the tab for the leaderboard.

704
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,960
You will see your place on the leaderboard. You end in these certain ranking.

705
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,960
And then you just go to your claims and be like sent by the pickaxe master.

706
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:12,960
You just got these X amount of sand and you got these pickaxe, for example, or you got these amount of resources and just click claim.

707
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,960
Now, the website just becomes super powerful. It becomes the centerpiece.

708
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:24,960
Everything just revolves around the website because you have all the tools, you have all the information and everything you need.

709
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,960
So it generates it. It creates a lot of value.

710
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,960
Either you are a player because it's very simple to use. You just use one system. You don't have to be.

711
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,960
And that's the thing. I would not want for players to be like, OK, I'm going to the pickaxe master. I'm going to their website.

712
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,960
Now I'm going to Sand Rush. Now I'm going to Tempus. Now I'm going to Tush and I'm going to.

713
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,960
And you just spread around.

714
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,960
If you first facilitate all the tools, I don't even need to create a website.

715
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,960
I just manage everything from the sandbox web page.

716
00:48:52,960 --> 00:49:01,960
And that is the perfect for people that creating a website is either complicated, expensive, takes time, resources.

717
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,960
If I don't have to do all of that because I can do everything pretty much on the sandbox website, that is perfect.

718
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:12,960
We will all be driving the traffic into the sandbox website, which ultimately that's what they want to need.

719
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:22,960
It's players, it's traffic. You want to condense everything into the same tool app so you can get as much users as possible.

720
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:32,960
So coming back to the question, so if, for example, the claims, it's something that's already been done just as creators don't have access to it.

721
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,960
So this would be a proposal in sort of like.

722
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:47,960
Releasing to all, but based on what I just read on the one, the last one, it kind of goes also in that direction, which is you fight a boss, you get a one percent chance to get the rare drop.

723
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,960
You go to a client page. It's there.

724
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,960
So it kind of is allowing that feature to be used by creators.

725
00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Gotcha. And and I saw the responses were really, really positive, like to say Seb Tom Vauxhall play for games.

726
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:12,960
KCL, they KCL was the one who identified as not being a creator, but they all really seem to like it.

727
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,960
Where is the SIP now? Are you still working on it?

728
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,960
Submitted it. No, honestly, no, I didn't even think that as a sip.

729
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,960
You know, I was like, you know what? Let me touch.

730
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,960
Well, let's me understand how this works. You know, let me say I'm a random user.

731
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,960
I'm not very profiquence on the sandbox, and I'm just going to go there.

732
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,960
Hey, I have an idea. This is the idea. And I want to see what happens next.

733
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:44,960
More than anything, I just wanted to put the idea there because I know Sandbox will see the idea and also just see, hey, let's see what happens.

734
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:50,960
People got to vote. I think you got like 14 or 15 votes, 14 votes, which is quite a bit.

735
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:57,960
And then it was like, OK, now do I get contacted? Do I get an email? Do I get a follow up? Do they do a draft?

736
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:03,960
So that was really like what I was trying to achieve is just to understand like, OK, what is this for?

737
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:10,960
We have a forum. Unless you are someone with heavy ties with the sandbox and you've seen the latest proposals,

738
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:17,960
which can include a lot of people that already.

739
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,960
I had an idea for a SIP that I got recommended to put as a SIP, but I didn't.

740
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,960
So I know I have myself with Pickaxe Mass as a trusted partner with the sandbox.

741
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:38,960
I know how to get a SIP out there, but I just wanted to see like, let me see what is the normal route for someone that's not a trusted partner, you know, someone that is just a member of the community.

742
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,960
What would that road be like? So it was pretty much of an experiment.

743
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:53,960
OK, well, more than likely, they could contact you, but I haven't heard anyone do that yet, except for the except for some of the more TSB SIPs.

744
00:51:53,960 --> 00:52:00,960
Like what we learned was with Arthmore TSB helped him do that.

745
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,960
And also the the blockchain 2024 events, the one that just closed, both of them, TSB also helped them.

746
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:12,960
So we're seeing that happen, but I haven't heard anyone from the community be reached out like that.

747
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:20,960
So if if someone were to do that, it had to be like someone like me to help you, where I've already submitted five.

748
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,960
Because in my professional world, I write contracts, I negotiate them.

749
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:32,960
So writing the proposals is to me, it's what I have been doing for over 10 years in my professional nature.

750
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,960
It's second nature. And that's where like the business and the gaming and all that comes together for me.

751
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,960
So that's why I love the Dow because of that.

752
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:47,960
So it'd be like something like me, where I would be like, hey, let me let me help translate that into something that people can vote on,

753
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,960
which I'd be more than happy to volunteer to do to help you.

754
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,960
But APIs actually, I didn't put that a sip on purpose.

755
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,960
I didn't want to spend that much time. I got you didn't get that as a sip.

756
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:06,960
So it's kind of one purpose just to understand how it actually works.

757
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:15,960
It takes a lot of effort because you've got you've got a Google draft form they have you have you put together and Pepe and Cyril and I.

758
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,960
Kyril, it was another sip author.

759
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:28,960
So Kyril, Pepe and I, we did two separate podcasts, I think it was three and four that went through the in the depths of how do you fill out that template and get to that.

760
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:36,960
But the APIs. So I have a sip right now cooking that is going deep into allowing like API sandbox that game.

761
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,960
You mentioned that briefly. How much did we overlap?

762
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:48,960
Because I have like a long list of things I've accumulated from developers and other people who say if you were to enable the API, this is the stuff we'd want.

763
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,960
So it sounds like this is more of a this was an idea.

764
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,960
But just to kind of see how it was going to go.

765
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:04,960
It was not that much extended. This was like, OK, let me think on tools that one are already developed.

766
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:11,960
So meaning that the costs of actually achieving these are very, very low because also the goal is to save money.

767
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:19,960
As someone that was a CEO, I understand the urgency needs to spend as less as possible to keep the company as profitable as possible.

768
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:32,960
So it can have money to grow. It has money to expand. It has money to sustain and also prepare for any dark times that it might go because all companies go through there once in a while.

769
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:38,960
But the thing is, OK, what's already developed out there, which was OK, leaderboards.

770
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:45,960
We've seen that active. We've seen that working. It was already there. So costs of developing and implementation zero.

771
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:52,960
We probably have costs of scaling, which is allowing the features to be accessible for all.

772
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:58,960
And I've understand that also by doing the websites, one thing is developing for us, they have to work and use.

773
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:06,960
The other thing is to give the option for people to do things themselves. So that is a scaling which needs.

774
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,960
That is one. Second would be the claim slash distribution.

775
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:16,960
We get our claims through the claims page, either it's an empty or either it's and perfect.

776
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,960
It's developed. It's there. The smart contracts is this.

777
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:25,960
Now we just need ourselves as creators to be also be able to use those.

778
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,960
The third was I don't even remember what was the third one.

779
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,960
I know that it was the APIs leaderboards, EP seasons, APIs.

780
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:42,960
OK, yeah, the AP season. So the AP season, if you recall on Alpha season one to you need even sometimes on these events,

781
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:50,960
you need to acquire these amount of ethos points in order to become eligible like that minimum threshold to get the prizes.

782
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:59,960
Right. So I think EP seasons can work wonderfully in many different aspects in terms of one user attention.

783
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,960
And secondly, it could also be bot prevention.

784
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:08,960
There's many, many things which that can help. In so many ways.

785
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,960
And that's another thing that's already been developed and it's already been implemented.

786
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:19,960
We just need to scale it for every. I would love to have a season like, for example, we're doing season right now.

787
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:28,960
I would just put it on the sandbox website. I got the leaderboards there so people would complete the quest daily or even for the season.

788
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,960
They have to complete this. They get the EP. So they become eligible.

789
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:40,960
It's like bots as well because it needs to follow all of those specific orders.

790
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:47,960
And then I would be able to distribute whatever prizes and I've not I didn't need one single time to be out of the sandbox website.

791
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,960
Neither the player needed one time to be outside of the sandbox website.

792
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,960
Now, this is what I call it quality of life, you know, it just becomes everything super, super simple.

793
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:05,960
And the fourth one would be, of course, APIs. Of course, if you're using an API, it means that you need to have at least some programming skills.

794
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,960
So these would be for the other three. I just like.

795
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:15,960
I know nothing about programming. I know nothing about computers and I just I got everything on the sandbox website.

796
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,960
The API would be like, for example, I don't want to have just one leaderboard.

797
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:28,960
I want to have best coal miner, best iron miner, best Cobra just on resources alone. That's like 15 different leaderboards, you know,

798
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,960
because I think that's also part of the fun.

799
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,960
And I would be able to create all of these immerse all of these diverse gameplay based on that.

800
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:43,960
That then OK, you have to visit the website if you want to go to the sort of extended gameplay.

801
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,960
But other people would use it differently as well.

802
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,960
I'm pretty sure that's with the release of APIs, people can kind of do crazy stuff with it.

803
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,960
Yeah, well, that's that's the thing.

804
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:02,960
I'm seeing a lot of people in the chat like Kachenga and in Uri, Uri and you know,

805
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:10,960
Pep already said that they liked the idea and I or Tusha said they liked the idea in the chat and on the forums.

806
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:21,960
They. I don't know, I put it on my backlog. So for my people to my team and I for us to look at and try and maybe create that SIP

807
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,960
and consult you on how we can do that.

808
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:33,960
Sure, I have no personal goal to be putting SIPs out there.

809
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:40,960
I'm not very much interested in the Dow. I love it. I love it. And all of that and just becomes very much politics.

810
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,960
I'm just like, it is a bit of that. I just want to see. Yeah, I just want to see product development.

811
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,960
I just want to have fun. I just want to create and I'll leave that for the grownups.

812
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,960
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm in love. I love that stuff.

813
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:02,960
So I have it right now as a SIP number 13 on my backlog, but I'll talk to the team and see what we can do about maybe bumping that up.

814
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:09,960
Maybe bumping that up or I know. Well, but I'll figure it out with the team.

815
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:16,960
Yeah, we have a lot of SIPs that we want to write. So many things that I've seen across the board, like I want to put that and I want to put that

816
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:25,960
and it creative products, half of them. The other half of them is stuff like like the Sandex, which I'm currently talking with Cyril on the forums about,

817
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:36,960
you know, tracing. How do we identify the publicly linked user handles for all the voters so that we don't have difficulty meeting quorum anymore and stuff like that?

818
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:42,960
And that would be one of the things like how long has been since May. So that's been at least three months.

819
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:52,960
So the fourth 25 percent of the year has passed and I've seen no developments regarding any.

820
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:59,960
Progress regarding that actually, it's been the opposite. We started with the first SIP, the first SIPs with kind of everyone voted.

821
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:08,960
They had to be republished. But yeah, they met quorum. Then we had the first one with Sandrush by Pepe that also met quorum.

822
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:15,960
But it was like it needed so much. The sandbox needed to do advertising. We were all pushing. We're all sharing.

823
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:22,960
It's like, yeah, let's get Sandrush proposal approved. And I think he met quorum like on the last day.

824
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:35,960
Now, these last two didn't even met Alph Quorum. It just for myself, it's just an indicator on how unengaged everyone is with the platform itself rather than let alone the Dow.

825
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:44,960
So I think it's just a reflection of the reality. And that would be one of my main concerns, actually, how to get people engaged in.

826
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:57,960
It's like that politicians, people were like voting days that one go there, vote, don't go to the beach or don't stay at home and all of that, you know, the sort of campaigns that people like go vote there and like that.

827
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:05,960
I think they it is a bit of that they do seem very disengaged and my goal. I feel excited about helping to engage.

828
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:17,960
I really think it's strong about the job on that. Oh, thank you. So let but let's let's detour over to what your engagement was, which was the San Fam Cafe.

829
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:24,960
So talk to me how that came about. Where does San Fam Cafe come from?

830
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:39,960
So the San Fam Cafe comes from, I think I had that idea boiling up in my head for a couple of months last year, and it just felt like there was a huge gap in the space for actually talking about the content.

831
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:46,960
I remember back then the person that actually was more confident and comfortable about talking.

832
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:58,960
I think there was the sort of bubble that everyone was kind of afraid of get out of it just fear of backlash or something like that. So everything just felt like a place where everyone was patting each other on the back.

833
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:06,960
And that was really putting up on my nerves. I was like, no, we need to have real conversations. People need to disagree on stuff like we can just not be all agreeing all the time.

834
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:20,960
We're not going in the right direction. So something's off here. And I remember that Joseph was when he was streaming back then on the sandbox. Yet sometimes they would bring up topics and add the real talk about stuff.

835
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:40,960
And I remember those kind of were sort of fresh air to talk about stuff. But then it passed a long time without those and it just felt like there was no space in this ecosystem to actually just have some real talk about stuff.

836
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:56,960
Because one thing is like when you go public. And I think it was pretty much back then was like felt it was very institutional, you know, like the sandbox and all of this. And since we're all GMF projects and he's like, yeah, well, now we've got to.

837
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:05,960
I felt like at some point the GMF was sort of buying your silence, you know, like we support you, but everything else that happens is just like.

838
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:19,960
So it felt like it was pretty much that bubble because when having private conversation with people we just go like, you know what, it feels good to actually be able to talk about these things because they're common problems.

839
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:35,960
And we felt like they were the common things that would be either concerns or whatever that we mutually had, but we felt the fear of not being able to share. So that's when I thought I was like, you know what, suck it.

840
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:51,960
Let's just bring these conversation like it was a cafe moment where we just like a group of friends or a group of people that we just tried to be as just talking about stuff without much filters. Of course, there's a threshold of what people can see and not say.

841
01:03:51,960 --> 01:04:06,960
While not breaking any end here or not putting themselves in the spot that they don't want to be, but trying to bring us a little bit foot on the ground, sense of reality and people kind of be able to speak up their minds and have a real conversation of things that

842
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:24,960
while where we agree, where we disagree, where we think what the status of the sandbox is. So that's how the central cafe was created, but it was just pretty much out of, I want to talk about this. There's nowhere to talk about this. So why not? Let's create something here.

843
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:44,960
That's basically what I did with Sandow because I didn't see a place to talk about the sandbox DAO. And to me, I'm passionate about it. I'm passionate about the DAO itself and it being good and not derailing itself kind of like some of the other DAOs did, not meet the same fate.

844
01:04:44,960 --> 01:05:00,960
Because we have 15.5 million sand. And how do we spend that responsibly? How do we talk about the things we want to do? And like you mentioned, when the DAO first came on and the SIPs were resubmitted, I had been tracking that very, very closely.

845
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:14,960
I called it the road to the DAO. So May 28th when it was announced and then there were insights for different AMAs that were held. SIPs four and five were voting before SIPs one, two and three because they had to be resubmitted.

846
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:25,960
And so they closed first and just it while it was a little crazy in the beginning when I was listening to the AMAs like, all right, I get how things happen. They accidentally voted with the sandbox wallet.

847
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:39,960
They didn't really mean to. So they tried to resubmit it to nullify their vote so that it would only be the community's vote. But because snapshot.org will only allow three at a time, they could only resubmit three SIPs out of the five.

848
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:53,960
So that's why two of them with sandbox's vote went through and closed with 27 million voting power from sandbox. They didn't want that. But I get it. It was a bit of a mess up in the beginning.

849
01:05:53,960 --> 01:06:04,960
But ever since then, we've been watching like, how did the SIPs come about with a community where the sandbox SIPs? Why was it that sandbox had so many SIPs already?

850
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:13,960
And I had to catch up with my lousy five and they had like 18 that were that were sandboxed and then all of that. So I know you have thoughts on it.

851
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:21,960
But yeah, but for the Sam Fam Cafe, how did you decide on monthly? Why did you decide on monthly?

852
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:30,960
Because it was too much to do more than that. And I was like, I think at this stage I can handle this monthly because it's a lot.

853
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:38,960
It's my own personal life. It's managing the Pickaxe Master. And then on top of that, just having even to do the Sam Fam Cafe.

854
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:45,960
That's you saw. It was a pretty much prepared show. Like it was. It was very prepared. It was very like these fluid.

855
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:54,960
Yeah, it was like a very it could be fluids. Kiwi. So it was like five minutes on this question.

856
01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:01,960
Five minutes here, five minutes there. Community questions. Read this. Talk about that. Second question. It was super structured show.

857
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:09,960
It was a lot of fun, but it also needed preparation. Preparation also takes time, which is not something I was that's very abundant.

858
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:15,960
So research and preparation, but definitely Sam Fan Cafe was prepared.

859
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:24,960
And I enjoyed that part about it because there you could actually delve into issues, especially when I listened to Joseph and a twenty four K and Pepe.

860
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:30,960
They were all talking about the creator side of it, especially a twenty four K some of the creator side of it.

861
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:38,960
But I listened to all of them like the fun guy one with with Crafter. And who was the third one there?

862
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:46,960
This one, it was and Shakespeare number four. Yes, Shakespeare. So listening to that.

863
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:53,960
So I really enjoyed that. I latched on to it. So in many ways you helped inspire me to do the Sand Elf podcast.

864
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:59,960
What we're doing now. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm happy. And that's an honor.

865
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:05,960
And how did you choose your guests? How did you choose which topic to go for?

866
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:16,960
So that's so when choosing the guests, I tried to come as one person to represent the artistic side, one person to represent the creator.

867
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:28,960
So game dev side and someone to represent the player side, which kind of narrows down and kind of breaks into hard choices on how to get people to be on the specific show.

868
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:35,960
And I tried to see like what would possibly create synergies along with the conversation to be as fluid.

869
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:44,960
So because I would look at a group of people like, yeah, this probably just go the conversation will just go that direction and just stay there all the time.

870
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:51,960
So it was quite hard. There was a few people in the beginning when I when I started to OK, let's do this.

871
01:08:51,960 --> 01:09:02,960
And I just reached out. I think the first one was with Cody. It was with. It was with Cody. It was with. Oh, my God.

872
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:11,960
And the only one I only see Cafe number two with Andy Richie and did not get recorded.

873
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:18,960
Oh, OK. Yeah. It was with Tempus. It was Cody. It was game easy and it was geekish.

874
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:24,960
The first one. Oh, gosh, yes. Oh, cool. I would have loved to seen that one. Yeah.

875
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:29,960
Yeah, but unfortunately, did not get recorded. That was like fun. Yeah.

876
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:38,960
I've had that happen to me before, too. OK, so that was you wanted to represent the various sectors of of the sandbox.

877
01:09:38,960 --> 01:10:02,960
OK, so situations like you found with Joseph and Kay that were kind of arguing with different perspectives would happen. And I think that was the most important thing about the show itself was that people with different backgrounds, different needs, different visions would come to this place and kind of be like, OK, we have this topic.

878
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:09,960
Let's see it from different angles and where people agreed disagreed, where they could tell like, hey, but have you saw from this side?

879
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,960
The other one like, oh, no, but also see from this side.

880
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:18,960
And I think that it's helpful for us that were there, but also very helpful for everyone that's watching.

881
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:29,960
Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I'm I'm glad that you you picked up that torch because for a while there, there wasn't much going on in that department.

882
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:37,960
And I always I always felt the same way, like there should be a space for that's happening because these conversations that we're having were community.

883
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:43,960
And now that we have the Dow with all these business interests, we have to be talking. What do we want this Dow to be?

884
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:51,960
How do we want to spend the money? Because it's clearly having an effect on things like creator tools and Magic Pallet that's about to launch.

885
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:59,960
And we just finished demoing that in the past three episodes. The real version of Magic Pallet is almost here. And we demoed it with Pepe.

886
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:07,960
And it's awesome. Even I understand it. And I'm an amateur at GameMaker. And so it's it's cool, man.

887
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:13,960
It's cool. So if there was a creator toolkit like the one that you posted, like how could we get that into reality?

888
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,960
Which and then we do it now through the sip with the Dow process. So.

889
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,960
I'm I'm excited. I'm passing about this stuff going to be.

890
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:28,960
I actually thought that was going to be the focus of the Dow was more related with product. Oh, Bruno.

891
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:37,960
Then anything else. Oh, Bruno, little, little did you know, you sweet summer child, as we say.

892
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:44,960
When I've been watching the other Dows, so and May 28th when our Dow was launched, I had no idea what a Dow was.

893
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:49,960
So I just started I just started absorbing every YouTube video I could on the Dows.

894
01:11:49,960 --> 01:12:00,960
I'm in BOTB Bulls on the Block on Saturdays where they talk about eight point Dow and Mochaverse Hall on Monday where they talk about Mochaverse, Dow, MochaDow and the eight point Dow.

895
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,960
Right. With G is us, exactly. And G would help bring me into the world of the Dows.

896
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:10,960
And I'm like, gee, what in the world is this, man? Because I thought he was connected to Dow in some way. I had no idea.

897
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:17,960
I had no idea about anything. And so G kind of helped me along with that when I attended his Mochaverse Hall.

898
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:24,960
And so once I started seeing what this was really about, I'm like, oh, we're not ready.

899
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:34,960
We're not ready for all the outside interests that are about to start submitting SIPs and start eating up that budget for things like like the eight point Dow.

900
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:41,960
I think either did or had a eight. He had a AAP proposal that was just about a car.

901
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,960
So they they wanted to like rent a car out and stuff like that.

902
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:50,960
One person did another AAP wanted to fund a Formula One race car.

903
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,960
And then they got boarded media. So many crazy. So many things.

904
01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:05,960
It just opens up the whole floodgates to anyone who can write well, who can campaign well, can submit an improvement proposal that will go to vote.

905
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:10,960
And then it's based on who has the voting power. So you've got all these dynamics working together.

906
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,960
I'm like, we got to be we got to we got to have a space where we can talk about this.

907
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:24,960
Otherwise, we're just going to get flooded. And so that's basically why I'm doing what I'm doing is because I want this to turn out to be something that we really want to vote for.

908
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:31,960
Not just someone who knows how to get the system behind them and then it works for them.

909
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:37,960
But is it really for creators? Is it really for a San Fam?

910
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,960
So what do you feel been to the strongest weapon that can be in the world?

911
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:48,960
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And so I I have a professional I have a professional background.

912
01:13:48,960 --> 01:14:01,960
And like I said, contract writing proposal writing. So it I know how this weapon can be wielded if it's not wielded by someone who is invested in the health of the community and people like you.

913
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:09,960
People like Joseph Pepe Touche Miguel. Who else was in here? Play games for fun.

914
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:24,960
There's so many Kachenga. Panda. There's so many people invested in the health of the sandbox and the Dow as a weapon that can be wielded against the sandbox if we don't know what we're doing.

915
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:32,960
So the good news is, is I come from the business background, so I see it coming. And that's why I'm doing this specifically.

916
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:41,960
The term San Fam, though, I use that without any knowledge of its background until someone sent me a message was I think it was Dan Koy.

917
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:48,960
And then I talked to Batman and and the San Fam. Oh, shoot was it was a discord.

918
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:58,960
Hold on. Give me a second. I'm staring at San Fam home base. Can you talk to me about where the term San Fam came from? From where what you know of the terminology?

919
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:06,960
It was first used by King of Crypto. Probably 20, 21 or 22. I don't even recall it.

920
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:16,960
It was quite some time ago. And then it was like, yeah, everyone started to use San Fam and it just became a common words that we would describe the community.

921
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,960
Gotcha. So I reached out to Batman.

922
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:31,960
And when he gave me some explanation over a message and he actually said that he picked it up from someone who wasn't affiliated with anyone, it just used the term.

923
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:36,960
And and over the past couple days, we traced it to all right.

924
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:43,960
We think it was Bunker and December 7th, 20, 21 Bunker Collective said, check this out San Fam.

925
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:49,960
And then in January, everybody started using it. Batman started using it.

926
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,960
Candley Christen started using it and it just took off from there.

927
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:58,960
But Bunker is this random tweet I'm going to show here.

928
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:02,960
That's where we think it started out.

929
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:09,960
Here I have it shown. Just check this out. San Fam and December 20, 21 to a sandbox tweet here.

930
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:15,960
And that's the earliest mention I could find and that Batman could confirm.

931
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:20,960
So. Were you at all connected with KOC Games?

932
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,960
Was this just you used it because it was it was the right term to use?

933
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:31,960
How did it happen? So we had the first run back off the San Fam Cafe.

934
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,960
But it did not work that well back then.

935
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,960
On the first episode, it was myself was King of Crypto.

936
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:45,960
It was Game DC as well. And it was and I think it was Half Dark.

937
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,960
Which then you say Half Dark. Half Dark. Oh, Half Dark.

938
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:58,960
OK, yeah. So I'll start with stream every day about like around this time ish.

939
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:04,960
And you would be explaining GameMaker like like Sabat Dragon does explaining the GameMaker.

940
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,960
I just stream every day. A lot of us learn from Half Dark.

941
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:12,960
So really miss him, got to say. Sorry.

942
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,960
But it was back then it was that first one happening.

943
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:23,960
Two thousand twenty two maybe early two thousand twenty three.

944
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:29,960
Maybe I don't even recall it. But the terminology was pretty much that like San Fam.

945
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:34,960
So, yeah. I'm not sure what was the question aiming at.

946
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:40,960
I guess the question was that when I use the term San Fam in the SIP process,

947
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,960
so much Dan Koy said, hey, do you realize that you're using that term,

948
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,960
but it actually means a specific subset of the community?

949
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:52,960
I'm like, I didn't know that. I thought San Fam just meant the whole sandbox community.

950
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,960
And he's like, no, it actually has different origins.

951
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:57,960
And so that's where I talked to Batman.

952
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,960
And then, OK, and then it just coincidentally,

953
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,960
you and I were already in the books to talk about San Fam Cafe.

954
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,960
And so then I was wondering if there was a connection there at all.

955
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:08,960
Now you're telling me now you're telling me stuff.

956
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:11,960
Actually, San Fam is just anyone related with the sandbox.

957
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:19,960
I would assume anyone related with the sandbox as a player, as a San owner, as a developer.

958
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,960
I make that's what I thought on that. That's what I thought, too.

959
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:26,960
But it's like, well, yeah, and Kachinga is in the chat as well talking about it.

960
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,960
And how they helped popularize the slogan.

961
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:37,960
And so I just wanted to know because I wasn't I got in midway through Alpha season one.

962
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:44,960
So there is there is time when you all had you all were in the sandbox and I hadn't been in yet.

963
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,960
And I was a gamer at first. I was playing the game.

964
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:49,960
I wasn't even a landowner or an avatar owner or anything.

965
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,960
I'm like, this is cool. This looks like Minecraft.

966
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:58,960
And I see a lot of potential here. And then then I then I started increasing my participation.

967
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:03,960
So so for you, San Fam seems like the same thing for me, the sandbox community.

968
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,960
Pretty much generic, everyone that's involved in some degree with the sandbox.

969
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:15,960
OK, so even though you you coincidentally interviewed KOC, which is where the San Fam words came from,

970
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:17,960
or at least it came from Bunker's tweet here.

971
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:23,960
And then it was popularized and and mobilized by King of Crypto games and all that.

972
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:30,960
There was no like association with the San Fam within KOC games and all that.

973
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:37,960
No, OK, was just pretty much generic words as for anyone related with the sandbox.

974
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:42,960
Oh, oh, go. Kachinga said Go West did that. Got it.

975
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,960
So Go West said King of Crypto and I came up with the slogan San Fam.

976
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,960
OK, and got it.

977
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,960
So this is just like a huge amount of coincidence is all coming together.

978
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:55,960
That's what it sounds like.

979
01:19:55,960 --> 01:20:00,960
Well, for myself, I see San Fam like I would see people mocha fam, for example.

980
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did the same thing.

981
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,960
I think it just got exact same thing.

982
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:06,960
Ape fam. I don't know.

983
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:12,960
And I think that any community on Web3 kind of adopted that.

984
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:17,960
So I think it just kind of go you would see people calling whatever name project fam.

985
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,960
Mocha fam, San Fam, ape fam.

986
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,960
I don't know what else other projects would be.

987
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,960
But so I think it kind of goes into that.

988
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,960
And it's it's pretty much a generic term.

989
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:35,960
I think that gets everyone involved in a friendly way more than anything.

990
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,960
Yeah, yeah, I think the same way.

991
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:40,960
And I and I wonder Go West, you're in the chat.

992
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:47,960
Do you have any ill feelings about me or Bruno using it as San Fam being the community?

993
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:56,960
So your gamers, your your Vox editors, your content creators, anyone who is invested in the sandbox or your landowners,

994
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:06,960
I would call all of them San Fam without any recognition that I had that I had been using it in a way that you all had had it being different.

995
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:09,960
So, OK, go west says not at all.

996
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:20,960
I think it's evolved to that. Well, thank you, because I had no idea that it had that history until Ben Koy said something on the forums like three weeks ago.

997
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:23,960
So, all right, I'm glad. Yeah, I think it's a go.

998
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,960
It's naturally. Yeah, I'm seeing like it evolved naturally.

999
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,960
Go West said before it was us who were in those streams that Bruno mentioned.

1000
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:32,960
OK, got you. Cool.

1001
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:34,960
Well, thank you, because that that means a lot to me.

1002
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:39,960
I didn't want to I didn't want to, you know, change that up to where it had been. But it's just a perfect word.

1003
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,960
San Fam, the sandbox family, which is the community.

1004
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,960
It's perfect. So, all right, cool.

1005
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,960
Mystery solved. We're all good.

1006
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:57,960
Is the whole family and community.

1007
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:04,960
I think it's good for the terminology to kind of evolve and just be more welcoming than restriction.

1008
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,960
Yeah, it's like everyone's part of the family. Yeah, we're part of a family token.

1009
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:14,960
You're part of the you have a land, you have a game, you have an NFT, you play the game.

1010
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:18,960
Myself, it doesn't matter. You're involved in the ecosystem.

1011
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:27,960
Yeah. So Kachenga asked something that am I a creative? Yes, but not in the same way that you all probably mean here in the sandbox.

1012
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:35,960
I started out as a musician and a composer like a like a classical composer.

1013
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:43,960
And then I worked my way into I have two novels that I published to Amazon and I have music that I published to iTunes.

1014
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:48,960
So I'm a creative in that sense and I publish my own stuff, but I'm also a business person.

1015
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,960
I've been a serial entrepreneur and own my own businesses like a game publishing company.

1016
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:55,960
I own my own novel publishing company.

1017
01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:03,960
Now I count MetaWorld as part of my game publishing company where I've resurrected that from years past.

1018
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:08,960
So I'm a business person as well. I'm a content creator, so I'm a creative in that way.

1019
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:18,960
But I don't I'm not good at all at Voxel Art. So I stay I pay I partner with other people to do that because I know that's not my specialty.

1020
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:25,960
So like Meta Theory Studio, I partnered with them to develop the game and the assets for floor droppers.

1021
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:30,960
And then I partnered with DreamJunk Studios for Lava Defense and its assets.

1022
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:35,960
So I know it's not my specialty. So I partner with other creatives to do that.

1023
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:40,960
So but I'm a super, super amateur game maker. I can like place a block or two.

1024
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,960
And that's why Pep is Magic Palette is so helpful to me.

1025
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:49,960
But I really like that as well. So know your weaknesses, know your strengths.

1026
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,960
Right. Right. And I tried to I tried watching Cyber Dragon tutorials on Mike.

1027
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,960
Man, this is going to take me a really long time. And my heart's not in it.

1028
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:03,960
I want to publish the games. I want to make them available for people to play and be a part of this community.

1029
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:10,960
As someone who says, like, let me build the structure and the rules by which these sips just come right through easy.

1030
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:17,960
So they that we talk about it, the rules. How do we what do we want out of this thing?

1031
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,960
Like, I'm a program manager in my professional life now.

1032
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:25,960
And so I have a portfolio of software that I manage.

1033
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:35,960
And so I'm all about how do we make it to where the real experts have the space they need that is quick, easy, communicative.

1034
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:38,960
That's my passion. And that's part of the reason why I'm here.

1035
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:45,960
So anyways, that's the answer to your question, Kachinga.

1036
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:53,960
So I'm glad that we solve the term San Fam, because that that bothered me a little bit when someone said, hey, that's not how we meant the term to be used.

1037
01:24:53,960 --> 01:25:00,960
And so so Batman is like, hey, you know, it's it's cool that we're that it's evolving the way it is.

1038
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:05,960
And then go west. Thank you for for confirming that, too.

1039
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:13,960
OK, you just relief like a I know, I know, because like this is a space where we talk about it.

1040
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,960
It's a motive. Most of my episodes so far have been listening.

1041
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:24,960
And, you know, I had Andy Richie and and and go with and I go with me, Joseph.

1042
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:26,960
And then I've been doing interviews ever since.

1043
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:31,960
I haven't had the time to slow down to say, hey, these are the things that I'm seeing.

1044
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:43,960
I'm going to now because of the past few 24 48 hours where I saw some responses on crafters sip and how it got it got closed down.

1045
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,960
And then Cyril responded last night as to why that happened.

1046
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:52,960
I think there's an episode just by itself to talk about what do we want of this Dow?

1047
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:57,960
Do we really believe because some of the things that the sandbox ambassador,

1048
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:05,960
they responded to there that was super interesting to see that the ambassadors are going to that they're they're going to be paid for by the Dow's funds,

1049
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:09,960
which came from the sandbox, by the way. Let's not forget that.

1050
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:14,960
But the Dow's funds are going to be paid for be paying for the ambassadors.

1051
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,960
And then those ambassadors going to report to the sandbox team.

1052
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:32,960
And then there's different things on how they're going to be required, I think is the word compelled to to advocate for the sandbox, which let's be I mean, this is a sandbox game.

1053
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:35,960
We are all here as community members of San Fam.

1054
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:41,960
We want to see it be healthy. But does is the Dow here to to do that?

1055
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,960
I'm not sure that that's exactly. So let's jump into that.

1056
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:48,960
What is your perspective, Bruno, on the sandbox doubt?

1057
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:56,960
So first thing is I'll start by saying that the sandbox owns the sandbox, the sandbox does whatever we please with the sandbox.

1058
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:02,960
Yeah. So whatever we might say here or how we feel, how we want it to be, it means nothing.

1059
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:06,960
They run the company as they wish because it's their company. It's not my company.

1060
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:08,960
I didn't build the sandbox. You didn't build the sandbox.

1061
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:13,960
Neither anyone in the chat built. We kind of built. We built games, built community.

1062
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:16,960
We helped the sandbox, but we don't own the sandbox.

1063
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:20,960
We're not invest. We invest our time and probably money.

1064
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:25,960
But we are not investors as having actually a share of a saying there.

1065
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:32,960
So the way that they set up the Dow, some of us might not agree. Some of us might like it.

1066
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:37,960
But it doesn't really matter because the parameter rules, they're just 100 percent set by the sandbox.

1067
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:44,960
We just need to understand what actually the Dow is supposed to be, which right now for me feels very unclear.

1068
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:53,960
If, for example, like you said, and even the other steps like the Latin for the exhibits for the conference.

1069
01:27:53,960 --> 01:28:05,960
Just like, OK, this is something is the Dow to be this money and this money gets used by whatever SIPs are thrown by the community.

1070
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:10,960
But this is going to be confusing. I'll just go with the flow. Yeah.

1071
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:17,960
So one thing is, OK, this is going to be SIPs just thrown by community and try to have as many different initiatives as possible.

1072
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:28,960
The other thing I see is, OK, this is a SIP proposed by the sandbox to spend money from the Dow to help the sandbox,

1073
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,960
which would be be at the conference. That would be some that would be sand.

1074
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:43,960
That would be money coming from the Treasury that they would spend to be at those venues to spread out the sandbox, to push for awareness, to be present.

1075
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:48,960
So in the end, the money comes from the same place. Right. So it doesn't matter. It comes from the Dow.

1076
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:54,960
The Dow money comes in the sandbox. It's kind of same thing.

1077
01:28:54,960 --> 01:29:03,960
So my thing is that. So what's the use of putting a decentralized autonomous organization to have proposals coming from the centralized authority,

1078
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:14,960
which is the sandbox, to then being sort of advertised to be voted on? It just feels too much redundant.

1079
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:19,960
Like if you want to do it anyway, just do it. Don't put it on a voting on a Dow. Like it's just redundant.

1080
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:26,960
You're just wasting my time, my reading time. Why bother? We going through that. If you want to do it, do it.

1081
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:34,960
The money comes from the same place anyway. Like, for example, I would see Magic Palette by Sandrush.

1082
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:38,960
It's like, no, that's something comes from the community. It's an integration with the tool.

1083
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:46,960
It's something that comes from outside the sandbox. Now getting attached to the sandbox and bringing value to the sandbox.

1084
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:49,960
Sandbox itself probably would have not developed that tool.

1085
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:54,960
Now that will exist and the community can vote if we want to integrate that tool.

1086
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:59,960
That's perfect. I love it. For me, that's the way to go.

1087
01:29:59,960 --> 01:30:03,960
When I saw it, I was like, this is what we need. This is something that will help the ecosystem.

1088
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:05,960
It will make the product stronger.

1089
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:12,960
And it would have been something that the sandbox has not developed or either spent resources and time and whatever on.

1090
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,960
So it feels a good way to go.

1091
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:24,960
Now, the other steps that I saw regarding that, it just felt too redundant on that sense.

1092
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,960
It was like, it doesn't make sense. Just like that.

1093
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:34,960
So the DAO itself, I think it has right now a lack of actually decentralization.

1094
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:41,960
I think a better approach would have been one, have a preparing time because the DAO was just announced like that.

1095
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:46,960
And hey, here's special counsel. Here's the advisory board. Everything's set up.

1096
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:52,960
You've not been informed. Now it is. It's decentralized and it's autonomous and it's an organization.

1097
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:58,960
I was like, man, it feels pretty much like the opposite. It is not decentralized. It's been very decentralized.

1098
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:03,960
And I get it. You want to prevent also from people to abusing and thinking advantage.

1099
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:15,960
But in that sense, then SIP, I think it was 10, the Latin, that has two advisory boards or I confuse them, which one are the advisory, which ones are the special counsel.

1100
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:22,960
But it has two studios, two founder of two studios present in the SIP. And we've been to those conferences.

1101
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:32,960
Of course, you expose the sandbox, you get that. But a lot of covering and that's literally free advertisements for personal gains.

1102
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:44,960
That's a conflict of interest in my perspective. In all sense, which is members being tied to the DAO that have not been elected by holders.

1103
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:58,960
They have been selected by someone. Now they got SIPs. Now they got SIPs to get them to represent the sandbox and get free advertisements along with it.

1104
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:13,960
For myself, it's a huge, huge conflict of interest. These people are already getting paid by the DAO to organize the DAO, not to go to go on events on behalf of the DAO.

1105
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:19,960
The community is so big. Why would have to be always the same? It doesn't make sense, right?

1106
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:29,960
If you want to grow, if you want to scale, give tools, give power, empower others. And I think that's what you can do best to actually grow something.

1107
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:42,960
Gotcha. Yeah, I spoke to Seb on this podcast about how this came to be. He mentioned how in the beginning, right now, it's centralized and they have a term they call progressive decentralization, which I found out.

1108
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:52,960
Me has been Mia Bao, who's on the advisory board. Advisory board, yeah. She's been using that term for a number of years.

1109
01:32:52,960 --> 01:33:01,960
But progressive decentralization is what Cyril and Seb have been doing in their AMAs they've been talking about.

1110
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:15,960
How in the beginning, they want it to be centralized to set the DAO on the right path and then give up the reins to the point where, in Seb's words, that the DAO is pretty much running the sandbox.

1111
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:24,960
That's his vision, at least. And so right now, I agree with you, it does feel very centralized right now.

1112
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:28,960
Wow, that was his answer. He wants the DAO to actually run the sandbox?

1113
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:33,960
Yeah, he said, and I'll tell you right away, I hate that idea.

1114
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,960
You hate that idea? So does Andy Ritzy when I brought that up to Andy?

1115
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,960
You love the idea?

1116
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:43,960
No, he hated the idea. Andy did.

1117
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:57,960
Yeah, I also hate the idea. You know why? Because if it fails, and we've seen a bunch of bad decisions being taken and a lot of money being wasted instead of going to product development, they'll be like, that's your fault. You were running this.

1118
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:02,960
But we didn't have that much time to actually make it right.

1119
01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:13,960
If it fails, it's just like a free bail out of jail card. It's like, we didn't make the calls. It was a DAO. If it failed, it failed on its own.

1120
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:20,960
Yeah. And that's how you just take responsibility. You step your foot out of anything.

1121
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:35,960
But it gives people like me the ability to take responsibility to say, I want to help make this better. I want to help put out sips that show that we can do this.

1122
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:47,960
I feel very invested in this. I want to run for special counsel in the next election. Because I feel like I can help do this.

1123
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:57,960
You're probably doing more than any special counsel is doing, which is helping people to write sips, to get them to talk about the existing sips. Who are the people there?

1124
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:09,960
I think what you're doing right now would have been either a role of someone in the special counsel, or they should have already thought about something like that. They would be like, hey, look at Crafter, look at Lancer. They're doing cool stuff.

1125
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:17,960
Yeah, we need this, for example. That would be priority number one. Like we said, we're not meeting Quorum.

1126
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:26,960
Yeah, we're not even meeting Quorum. Which, as I found out, is actually not a problem in and of itself, because a lot of DAOs have that. So we're not alone in that.

1127
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:40,960
But what Kachinga said in chat, show me how the SANDAO as an entity brings value to the project and by what metric. Kachinga, I want to do that. I want to show you how powerful a DAO can be when it runs.

1128
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:56,960
That's my passion here with this podcast is bringing people who can talk perspective, like advisory board, special counsel, Bruno, people who are contributing as SANFAM to this thing that we're doing.

1129
01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:02,960
Oh man, I don't want to run for special counsel. I don't want more headaches. That sounds like a headache.

1130
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:18,960
It is a headache, but it's a special headache that if you like to lead, if you like to make things better, like to me, I want to get things out of the way so that SIPs can go through fast and that the community can communicate.

1131
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:35,960
I want to get to the point where CandidlyKristin doesn't feel the need to vote no on every single SIP, even one that she's an ambassador for. She's an ambassador voting no on the ambassador SIP and she has her position very clearly articulated as to why that is.

1132
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:51,960
So I don't want that to be the case because I look up to CandidlyKristin. She was one of the first people to help teach me about the sandbox when I became a landowner and there were many, many others, Monkey and many others who helped shape that stuff.

1133
01:36:51,960 --> 01:37:06,960
They're all fantastic and I loved their take on that. It just felt like very blunt, very straight to the point. I was like, yeah, this is all very, very valid points up here. And I think it's literally like you're saying it needs way more transparency.

1134
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:13,960
We have in Portugal, we have a saying that when you don't know your direction you're going, any wind is favorable.

1135
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:25,960
So whatever the wind is, say it in Portuguese.

1136
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,960
I don't know what you just said, but I wanted to hear in Portuguese.

1137
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:43,960
It was just like that. It was just that. So it feels like that. So when we don't know where we're heading at, every burst of wind feels like it's a favorable one because it will take you the boat in that direction. Even it would be the end of the world.

1138
01:37:43,960 --> 01:38:09,960
It doesn't really matter. That's where the wind is blowing. So I think having a strong, or just even a roadmap, I will not even call it, just having a roadmap and having transparency and the milestones and everything just would be one of the key factors to actually being able to, how are we going to actually, how are we going to get to, is this being successful?

1139
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:15,960
Is this doing good work? Then we don't have any metrics to be based on because there's no roadmap to guide on.

1140
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:32,960
Yeah. Yep, I agree. Cyril did just start posting in the forums, the SIP queue. So I got to see where my SIPs are, how close they are to the top, and then his tasks that he's trying to accomplish, like delegations.

1141
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:40,960
Trying to get delegations online. There's other other things he's working on. So have you been voting? Have you voted? Of course.

1142
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:53,960
And so what? Funny thing, I've never voted in my life. I've always been against the way that things are. And I take this as a personal standpoint. And this actually has been my first vote in my life. It was in the sandbox.

1143
01:38:53,960 --> 01:39:07,960
Okay. And so what does it take to earn your yes vote? What do you look for? I look for impactful, meaningful implementations.

1144
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:22,960
Not something that I would see just as a, for example, I'll mention the one with the art management. Man, that was just a, sorry for if I'm allowed to say that, that was such a bullshit of a SIP.

1145
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:29,960
You thought so? Did you watch my interview? It was a lot different than I thought it would be.

1146
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:47,960
I did not. Because I was like, this is doing for the wrong reasons. Just from reading that SIP. I was like, so one thing, are you telling me that out of all of those millions raised from the sandbox, how much, that was pretty much all of Lot was both in the bull market.

1147
01:39:47,960 --> 01:40:00,960
I remember the moonboards. That was like 420 ETH. When ETH was like $4,000. That was like millions and millions on each JPEG of the eight of the moonboards projects that went to zero.

1148
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:02,960
About three million pounds, I think it was assessed at.

1149
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:18,960
Now that is today that's supposed to be 90% down. Sure. Right. Sure. So if it's 90% down, the cost of acquisition was 90%, not a 90% up because that's a long way up. Yeah, probably like 15 million pounds, something like that.

1150
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:41,960
15 million, 20 million, who knows what money. So one, that money could have been spent on things we're seeing right now. For example, the implementations regarding the APIs, for example, the ReCIP implementation, all these toolkits to actually have a stronger product.

1151
01:40:41,960 --> 01:41:03,960
So first one, I think those would have been the sandbox itself doesn't have an MVP, a minimum viable product, which every company needs to survive. Right. So don't spend millions on things that are not strictly necessary for business development, because that's that's just, it's a luxury.

1152
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:14,960
It's a luxury that I feel ashamed that someone did that luxury when you have so much money in a company, so many people investing, and you still want to have an MVP.

1153
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:33,960
Like if you already had that, and it was already like all running smooth and now just we're so good people now we have a DAO, we're going to, it's profitable, it's working, it's like imagine Roblox, but we're so good people. Now we're going to let the DAO for you and you're going to run it and the DAO is going to make profits and it's all going to be run.

1154
01:41:33,960 --> 01:42:01,960
Freaking nice argument man, like way to go. But when we don't have that and we're spending millions of dollars on things that are not strictly necessary for the product development, for the survival, and now, pass forwards, we've been hearing that people are going, are getting laid off the sandbox, people are getting are losing their jobs, people that have a rent to pay people that probably have kids that they go to school, they have to feed them.

1155
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:16,960
And if this zip, now coming back here was like, you know what, we could really use these people, like, we need to sustain this team because this team is doing this work and he's doing this job and they're developing and they will get this product development faster.

1156
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:34,960
And we need to sell these art collection was a really bad purchase, and we apologize we spent all that money and now we have to lay out a lay off people because we are running short in cash, but we apologize but we're going to sell that and we're going to keep these people for one more year.

1157
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:41,960
These budgets will allow us to keep these people for one more year. I'll be like, freaking hell yes, that's the good reasons to do so.

1158
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:47,960
Now, selling art to buy more art.

1159
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,960
If not we learned.

1160
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:55,960
It's a it's a harsh take.

1161
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:57,960
Take. All right.

1162
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:04,960
I hear what you're saying at 10 best thank you for for rating. Appreciate that very much.

1163
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:11,960
Hey tempest hey Cody you're losing a tempest. So, yeah.

1164
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:17,960
Well, I'll warrant this when I interviewed Arthmore, who is the SIP author.

1165
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:22,960
He, I can tell he's very passionate about art curation.

1166
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:37,960
If there was someone who was right for the job. Arthmore it seemed like he had a master's in the in art management. He's been art managing NFT collections for a while. He seemed like a really good fit for the job.

1167
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:40,960
Whether or not he should be doing the job.

1168
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:42,960
I think that's up for debate.

1169
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:54,960
I was supportive of it in the end. He messaged me like what would take to change him. I was like, man, this is nothing personal like this is nothing against nothing against you like this is just for me a matter of doing the right thing.

1170
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:57,960
Like, well, did you know, I didn't know.

1171
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:01,960
We're going to get that NFT collection whether we want it or not.

1172
01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:04,960
It's getting gifted to the Dow.

1173
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:12,960
So from what I understand, why do we have a Dow? So Jean-Michel Paihoun and Seb, I can't tell us part of it was personal.

1174
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:20,960
Well, I wasn't sure if it was their personal collection or if they spent sandbox resources. It sounds like it's a mixture of both maybe.

1175
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:37,960
Well, Seb has said very, very much often that he wants the sandbox to be the cultural capital of the metaverse. So to me, it's unsurprising that there's a large NFT collection because he feels very strongly in that vision.

1176
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:44,960
So he's going to they're giving the sandbox NFTs to the Dow and the Dow is going to manage it.

1177
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:54,960
So now we're going to get this collection and they're going to sit there because we have no one to curate them.

1178
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:58,960
So the SIP didn't matter in terms of getting the collection.

1179
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:02,960
You have people like Kraft that are going to leave because there's no support. You have studios taking bakes.

1180
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:03,960
I know, I know, I know.

1181
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:09,960
Because there's no monetization. And we're discussing about billions of dollars to sell arts and they're going to be transferred anyway.

1182
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:15,960
This type of stuff, personally, it leaves me so sad. And he kind of defeats all the purpose of a Dow.

1183
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:21,960
People voted no and did not reach the quorum or whatever reason it got rejected.

1184
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:26,960
Let it be. Don't go around. So if people this was what was the silence like, we're going to do it anyway.

1185
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:34,960
Don't put it as a SIP. Just do it. Don't tell me to vote. Just do whatever you please, because it's your company. You can do whatever you please.

1186
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:40,960
Yeah, well, he's trying to get away from that. I think he's made clear that he wants the Dow.

1187
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:45,960
He believes in decentralization. He believes in the community. He said that so many times.

1188
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:51,960
I've had so many quotes from him. I think I've maybe watched upwards of 20 videos of interviews and stuff of his.

1189
01:45:51,960 --> 01:46:00,960
And I have so many quotes from him talking about how he wants to give ownership of the sandbox to the community.

1190
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:06,960
And he sees a Dow as a way to do that. So even though it's not happening right away at decentralized,

1191
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:17,960
I think that's what his goal of progressive decentralization is, is for us to responsibly take that from them sometime in the future.

1192
01:46:17,960 --> 01:46:20,960
That's what they've explained.

1193
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:23,960
Especially we too. Well, they have offices around the world.

1194
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:33,960
But in terms of RWA, in terms of having actual shares being tokenized, because you have to keep everything into a sort of registry book

1195
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:40,960
that you have to report to your local government, that's just itself a pain, let alone being on the blockchain,

1196
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:46,960
where we have a token that's transaction every day, millions of users. That's just...

1197
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:54,960
We need to evolve technology-wise and the financial system needs also to evolve in that direction.

1198
01:46:54,960 --> 01:47:00,960
So we're still years away from that. Okay. That is assuming that would happen.

1199
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:11,960
I think it's being more used as a catchphrase for marketing than actually a reality, because you will not see like the...

1200
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:21,960
You go to the forum, and especially with the leaderboards, the Builders Challenge and all the feedback that you would be able to read there.

1201
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:27,960
It looks like there's a position within the community that there's a lot of feedback.

1202
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:37,960
And in terms of actual system improvements, integrations, developments, it feels very distant, very, very far away, for example.

1203
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:44,960
They didn't know the reality of the creators. I was like, you know creators, I mean, bankrupt very soon.

1204
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:52,960
I'm one of them. As a publisher, I'm going to do an episode on that, how I tried...

1205
01:47:52,960 --> 01:48:02,960
I came in and I invested money and I ran out of money. And when they changed the catalyst, it bankrupted my idea to get revenue back.

1206
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:09,960
And so Catalyst V2, now they just stabilize the price like a couple of weeks ago.

1207
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:16,960
Before that, wholesale prices for me were hundreds of sand for like rares.

1208
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:21,960
And it was... It wasn't sustainable. It wasn't sustainable for a creator.

1209
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:30,960
Yeah, I have like an accounting calculation, a very robust Excel formula stuff going on to where I was like,

1210
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:36,960
if I spend this much money, I can sell it for this. And like I went all out with MetaWorlds.

1211
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:44,960
And at the end I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't sustain it. And I'm going to do an episode on that.

1212
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:46,960
But oh, there's so much more.

1213
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:55,960
It's those tools that not only they make the ecosystem get stronger, the game more engaging and actually retain more users.

1214
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:58,960
And with that, unlock monetization strategies.

1215
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:02,960
So it kind of goes, the product development kind of goes all together, you know.

1216
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:07,960
But what I was saying with that, so first we need to even go to Centralland.

1217
01:49:07,960 --> 01:49:10,960
Everyone shifts on the Centralland. But you know what the Centralland has?

1218
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:15,960
The Centralland has just as one example, which is Ice Casinos.

1219
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:24,960
Ice Casinos, they use their own token in the Centralland and they've got a legal with, you know, how hard it is to actually open an online casino.

1220
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:29,960
They actually open a legal online casino using their own token in the Centralland.

1221
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:33,960
In terms of tech, that's how evolved the Centralland is right now.

1222
01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:38,960
It's nothing we can do on the sandbox. That is just like the whole new level.

1223
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:46,960
So being able to one, use your own token, being able to legally run a casino in the Metaverse.

1224
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:51,960
We're just not talking made up things. No, they play with USDT as well there.

1225
01:49:51,960 --> 01:49:56,960
It's a compliant legal casino. They run on the Metaverse.

1226
01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:01,960
That is just like there's so much legality coming in here to make this possible.

1227
01:50:01,960 --> 01:50:05,960
So it's like if they can do it, the sandbox can do it.

1228
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:07,960
If they don't do it, it's because they don't want to do it.

1229
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:15,960
And I've always pushed like, man, the thing you need to worry the most is to unlock banding San in the game.

1230
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:21,960
There's absolutely no game in the world that does not have its own in-game currency.

1231
01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:23,960
That's how you monetize. I'm not reinventing the wheel.

1232
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:27,960
The wheel has been invented long time ago. I'm just telling how things work.

1233
01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:29,960
And I should not be the one telling you that.

1234
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,960
You should already know way more than myself, right?

1235
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:37,960
Because you're a huge company with over 100, 200 employees. I don't know.

1236
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:40,960
Even purchased companies and all of that.

1237
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:50,960
So that would have been legal compliance, getting all the tools to actually be able to do transactions, either their NFTs, either their sands,

1238
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:56,960
making a fair, simple system for reports for people like myself to be able to report the tax.

1239
01:50:56,960 --> 01:51:00,960
I cannot even I have to track manually how many NFTs I sell in the sandbox.

1240
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:06,960
I don't even have a report. But I'm like, how am I going to run a company if I don't even have these tools?

1241
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:10,960
It's hard. It's just basic, basic, basic stuff.

1242
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:11,960
It's hard.

1243
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:16,960
So just to put out there, that would have been the most important.

1244
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:25,960
So instead of just going for decentralization, first you need to focus on so many other things because it doesn't matter the decentralized bankrupt thing.

1245
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:26,960
Gotcha.

1246
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:30,960
At this stage, we're just going very fast into that direction.

1247
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:38,960
Well, I feel like we beat the Dow up pretty good. Let's go to one of the last things.

1248
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:40,960
I'm sorry to do that for us.

1249
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:44,960
It's all right. You and I, I love, I love the idea of the Dow.

1250
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:49,960
I love that we have a Dow. I have the same, same criticisms you do.

1251
01:51:49,960 --> 01:51:55,960
The only difference is between you and I is I am passionate about changing it.

1252
01:51:55,960 --> 01:52:01,960
So that's the big difference. This is my, this is my love interest. This is my passion.

1253
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,960
So I'm going to be in it. I'm going to be here. I'm going to do everything I can.

1254
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:18,960
I'm happy to help you. You get to have that energy. To be honest, it's been three years that I've been pushing forward this ecosystem as much as I, and the fact that I just mentioned and the thoughtful responses I gave you.

1255
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:26,960
It's because I actually spent a lot of time thinking about this and I, I really like the sandbox and as a tool, I think it has a lot of potential.

1256
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:31,960
I love the community. I think it's filled with amazing people overall.

1257
01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:42,960
And yeah, I would love to see the sandbox turn into what we all would jump in, like the original premise of the sandbox.

1258
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:50,960
I really hope that it can turn itself around. But for that to happen, a lot of things need to be changed from the core.

1259
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:53,960
I agree. I agree.

1260
01:52:53,960 --> 01:53:01,960
What were your thoughts on Builders Challenge 1 and 2? You and I think we're in Builders Challenge 1 together. Me floor droppers, you pickaxe.

1261
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:10,960
What were your thoughts on 1 and 2? I haven't touched 2 because I've been here in the Dow.

1262
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:15,960
Do you want to go anywhere specific with the question? No, I just want to know what your general sentiment was.

1263
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:21,960
I'd heard some things that 2 had the problem with the leaderboard. It got explained to me a little bit about what that was.

1264
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:28,960
But did you feel like it was a step in the right direction or was it unsuccessful and it was counterproductive?

1265
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:37,960
I think it's a great thing. I think the Builders Challenge is the best thing it happens to. It happened to creators overall, period.

1266
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:41,960
I don't think it's a bad thing. Quite the opposite.

1267
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:48,960
Now, in terms of the Builders Challenge, I think there's also a curve for learning, which you're going to miss.

1268
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:55,960
You're going to do things wrong. And my philosophy is we are not born tough. So if you're going to fail, fail fast.

1269
01:53:55,960 --> 01:54:00,960
At least you learn fast and you get to do better, faster.

1270
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:09,960
Probably, which is again the lack of involvement with the community, I think you could have had a better starting point.

1271
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:16,960
The same with the Dow, the same with all of the stuff, which is having a couple of...since they have a lot of trusted partners,

1272
01:54:16,960 --> 01:54:24,960
it would have been a good place to start to at least highlight or define a couple of rules.

1273
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:36,960
Now, for the Builders Challenge, I think it's a very good program. It needs a lot of fine tuning like the old Game Maker fun model like the Game Jams they had.

1274
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:48,960
So my take on it is one, it should not...at this stage, it should be submitted for experiences because you don't want to have people like we've seen.

1275
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:56,960
We duplicate experiences. I would rather have...I only have one game. I've been here for three years and I only have one game.

1276
01:54:56,960 --> 01:55:03,960
I focus on quality. And hey, guess what? It has been working out. As for losing a lot of quantity.

1277
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:10,960
So I would focus first on a creation system, which is UGC. I'd rather have less experiments, but they're all just like top notch.

1278
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:19,960
Anyone that gets to visit, they'll be like, oh, wow, all of this was UGC? Man, this platform is thriving. Oh, I wish I could see more.

1279
01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:25,960
It's still so empty, but the ones that are there, they're really, really good. So it would set the bar.

1280
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:33,960
That also serves as an inspiration level and it kind of avoids some people trying to read the system already.

1281
01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:37,960
So it's already a prevention point. That is a good one.

1282
01:55:37,960 --> 01:55:53,960
Secondly, would have been regarding the...I think this was actually the rules, which if you're part an event, you cannot get the rewards from the Builder's Challenge,

1283
01:55:53,960 --> 01:56:03,960
which is it kind of defeats the purpose. Like myself, I've been doing a lot of advertisements, like super strong on advertisement, being present, streaming and all of that.

1284
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:13,960
But it kind of gives a sense of worthlessness when you would see that you would get an experience featured as experience of the week.

1285
01:56:13,960 --> 01:56:19,960
And they would even give 10,000 Sanches for playing those featured experiences.

1286
01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:28,960
And that would just drive and they have their newsletter, which has an incredible reach. And I think that's great. I'm not containing that. I think that is great.

1287
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:39,960
They should keep doing it. Just don't count those experiences towards the leaderboard because that is a great tool to actually get your experience featured and get a lot of eyeballs on you.

1288
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:48,960
But it defeats the purpose of all my efforts. Now just went to waste because I cannot compete with the sandbox itself as a marketing machine.

1289
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:56,960
So I will never get first, second, third, fourth, fifth place. That's just out of my league because I'm competing with the sandbox itself.

1290
01:56:56,960 --> 01:57:07,960
And that itself is an unfair competition for me. It defeats one. Why would I even spend money on ads if they're just going to get it anyway?

1291
01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:17,960
And the studio there is going to get first, second, third, fourth, whatever. They're going to end up in top 10, as we've seen in these Build a Challenge 2.

1292
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:25,960
Because on Build a Challenge 1, I think this did not happen. But now it's happening. And you see that how every week impacts the leaderboards.

1293
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:31,960
And you would see so many experiences in that top. So really defeats and kind of demotivates from you trying to do better.

1294
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:39,960
Because now it comes to a point like it doesn't matter. It's either you got featured or you don't. So I think that's more damaging than anything else.

1295
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,960
So you feel like you're competing with the sandbox itself now?

1296
01:57:43,960 --> 01:57:51,960
You are. And you are. Imagine you have floor droppers. You're streaming every day. You're putting contents, events, all of that.

1297
01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:56,960
And you're just trying to struggle to get into that top 10. Right. You're pushing the limits, doing all of that.

1298
01:57:56,960 --> 01:58:04,960
And then you would see these experiences with barely any engagement, barely any exposure. They don't stream. They don't post. They don't do any events.

1299
01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:12,960
There's no rewards. There's nothing at all. And they just got featured by the sandbox newsletter, which is the experience of the week.

1300
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:17,960
The sandbox puts an additional price pool, which is 10,000 cents. You cannot compete with that as well.

1301
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:26,960
They give you all of that exposure to all of these mailing lists. And guess what? They ended in a place that's higher than you. How would you feel?

1302
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:34,960
That happened to me in Bullishon's one. So I didn't spend any money on ads, but we were doing two to three times a week.

1303
01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:39,960
We formed partnerships with some nonprofit groups, some gaming nonprofits.

1304
01:58:39,960 --> 01:58:46,960
So I was trying out like tens of new players to sandbox who had never touched it before.

1305
01:58:46,960 --> 01:58:52,960
I had to I created a tutorial guide. It took me like seven hours. Create a picture tutorial for how do you create an account?

1306
01:58:52,960 --> 01:58:57,960
Then you click this button. You click that one. Here's how you get to floor droppers. It was still tough for them to get in.

1307
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:07,960
But then they did. Right. So we kept turning that out. We had we had creator partnerships up the wazoo like the oh, my gosh.

1308
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:14,960
We put so much time and effort into that. I had a premium land. So I put it on that. I got featured by sandbox.

1309
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:23,960
I just requested him like, hey, can I get it? I had just gotten trusted partnership like just just got it earlier this year.

1310
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:28,960
And so after I just kept on emailing them like, hey, how do I get this? How do I get this?

1311
01:59:28,960 --> 01:59:38,960
I don't have like a ton of money. So but but I did all that. I got seventh place one week, but I didn't make top ten in the very end.

1312
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:45,960
Like, how did I get beat? How? I had new people come in all the time. We were streaming.

1313
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:54,960
I had I had streamer partners who I just knew. I'm like, hey, would you feature our our our when you broadcast our stream joined in the in the in the second half.

1314
01:59:54,960 --> 02:00:00,960
Right. What's that? You only joined in the second half or was it from day one?

1315
02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:10,960
I joined as a gamer in the mid midway through season one. I didn't create my first experience until the floor droppers floor droppers.

1316
02:00:10,960 --> 02:00:16,960
Oh, no. So they announced it. They announced it the 14 days when they announced it.

1317
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:21,960
They had to start. We I had already I had a game maker fund from twenty twenty three.

1318
02:00:21,960 --> 02:00:32,960
So I was able to I wrote up a proposal. I did their PowerPoint. And so I had a game maker that was working for that was being built, which was Lava Defense.

1319
02:00:32,960 --> 02:00:38,960
It just released not long ago, but it wasn't ready. I'm like, how? How? I can't get it ready in time.

1320
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:44,960
So Eduardo, I've been talking to him about another experience that I want to get done.

1321
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:51,960
And he said, hey, we can actually build one in 14 days. I'm like, all right, let's do it. So that became floor droppers.

1322
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:55,960
It was ready before my game maker fund was.

1323
02:00:55,960 --> 02:01:03,960
And and so we built floor droppers in 14 days and it made it in time for day one of of Builders Challenge.

1324
02:01:03,960 --> 02:01:11,960
The Builders Challenge. Right. But I was getting a very strong push towards like the second half of the event.

1325
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:17,960
Yeah. Well, the very beginning was our our our primary because we were streaming multiple days.

1326
02:01:17,960 --> 02:01:23,960
We were bringing in multiple people from the other game, the game nonprofits.

1327
02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:28,960
We had partnerships, really. Panda Pops visited us one time.

1328
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:35,960
So we got we got a lot of attention. But even then, I got outmatched and I still don't know how.

1329
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:41,960
I still don't know how. I looked at some of the other ones that beat us and like we had we had higher engagement than they did.

1330
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:45,960
We had higher people. We had higher numbers of people to play.

1331
02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:52,960
How is it that they beat us with the number of the quantity of play with fewer people?

1332
02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:58,960
I mean, I was playing my game all the time, but I wasn't sitting in my lobby just like accruing hours.

1333
02:01:58,960 --> 02:02:03,960
Like I wasn't botting. I was there and I played. And then we had we were testing all the time.

1334
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:07,960
I don't know how we got beat, man. We put everything into it.

1335
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:11,960
I sort of blind first place. I think I don't know how I got beat.

1336
02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:15,960
I think it was way harder than this one in a different sense.

1337
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:19,960
HODL Hill, thank you, was a partner as well. Thank you, HODL.

1338
02:02:19,960 --> 02:02:22,960
I'm sorry. Go ahead. Just I'm disappointed.

1339
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:28,960
I remember when that started, I was like first week we were like number 10.

1340
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:34,960
And then second week we were like number eight. And then third week we were like number seven.

1341
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:39,960
And then they stopped releasing the weeks and just gave you the final one.

1342
02:02:39,960 --> 02:02:46,960
So what I remember is like, OK, we have a very stable number, you know, some like you would see some jumping high and falling down.

1343
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:49,960
Like you would do a huge marketing push and then falling down.

1344
02:02:49,960 --> 02:02:57,960
So what I would believe, for example, with this one on Build a Challenge 2 is we've been able to get ourselves like very solid,

1345
02:02:57,960 --> 02:03:02,960
always within that range.

1346
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:09,960
Some weeks we have seen some experiences like being in the top and then they disappear like the future.

1347
02:03:09,960 --> 02:03:17,960
So when coming to the end, although these experiences got like one or two weeks, like at the top and then fall down,

1348
02:03:17,960 --> 02:03:20,960
we always managed to get like in that range very consistently.

1349
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:29,960
So when it comes to the end of total games throughout the whole season, maybe we even ended up higher because we were that consistent through all the time.

1350
02:03:29,960 --> 02:03:35,960
So I think it pretty much goes towards that direction. At least that would be my understanding of it.

1351
02:03:35,960 --> 02:03:43,960
OK, well, I just felt disappointed because we did it. We did it right. I didn't buy my way into everything.

1352
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:55,960
We we form partnerships of people with existing like HODL. We formed a partnership with HODL where she would help stream sometimes whenever we would play a couple of times a week.

1353
02:03:55,960 --> 02:04:02,960
And she did her part. And thank you so much for participating in that. Also, Zita, by the way, do you know Zita?

1354
02:04:02,960 --> 02:04:09,960
She said she's a fan of yours in the chat. Zita. She's connected with Lululand. Lululand, exactly.

1355
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:17,960
So she said, hey, she's been. She's a fan of yours. But yeah. Anyways, I appreciate Zita.

1356
02:04:17,960 --> 02:04:25,960
And I felt like we did it right. Yeah, I felt like we did it the right way, the ethical way, and we got beat bad.

1357
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:30,960
We never got featured as well, by the way. No, there are that one or this one.

1358
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:35,960
No, we never. I'll send you the feature link because it's just a Google form. I know I never submitted.

1359
02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:40,960
Oh, OK. I submitted you the Google form and that's how I got featured. That's what I mean.

1360
02:04:40,960 --> 02:04:45,960
No, I didn't. I didn't ask to be featured either way. Oh, Bruno, come on, man.

1361
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:54,960
Your your experiences is way more in depth than mine. Mine's a mini game. And like you deserve to be featured.

1362
02:04:54,960 --> 02:05:04,960
Thank you. OK. You just didn't felt like it just didn't felt like a bad because if you get featured and you get a ton of eyeballs into your experience,

1363
02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:11,960
and but it doesn't count towards that challenge. I think it would be fair. I would be like other people might need.

1364
02:05:11,960 --> 02:05:15,960
Oh, you feel like it's unfair. I'm getting myself way around.

1365
02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:20,960
So if I get because you said because you said earlier, it would be like competing against the sandbox.

1366
02:05:20,960 --> 02:05:26,960
Yeah. Oh, so if you I would I already have like, OK, I I've the project grew from nothing.

1367
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:32,960
Like when I joined the sandbox, there was no Twitter page. There was no discord. There was nothing. There was no team.

1368
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:37,960
It was all assembled. It was very it has been all very organic. I've never pushed for one paid ad.

1369
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:45,960
I never bought any follower or any play or any of that is just 100 percent organic.

1370
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:52,960
So being able to go from zero now like five thousand on Twitter, we're almost one thousand on Discord.

1371
02:05:52,960 --> 02:05:58,960
It's quite substantial numbers compared to the community size overall in the sandbox.

1372
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:03,960
So I thought that, OK, I have a marketing background, right? So I know what I'm doing.

1373
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:06,960
I mean, what I need to do. But a lot of people don't.

1374
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:14,960
So, OK, let's give it a try for everyone else also to build their because what does matter if I'm the only one that makes to succeed in the sandbox?

1375
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:21,960
The sandbox is not going to succeed. The sandbox needs a lot of successful people in it in order to the sandbox be successful.

1376
02:06:21,960 --> 02:06:30,960
So I rather let others use it and be and taking that because there's a very limited amount of spots that can be featured each week.

1377
02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:34,960
So I would rather have others to be exposed and grow.

1378
02:06:34,960 --> 02:06:40,960
And then we have more projects. We have more things in the community happening at the same time.

1379
02:06:40,960 --> 02:06:45,960
And that's that's healthy and good for the overall ecosystem than just being myself.

1380
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:47,960
I'm already probably a known studio.

1381
02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:51,960
People have already played or know the game and even getting more exposure.

1382
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:54,960
I would not feel bad. I would not feel good about myself.

1383
02:06:54,960 --> 02:06:59,960
All right. I can respect that that you wouldn't feel good about it, because I was about to say, Bruno, ever the idealist.

1384
02:06:59,960 --> 02:07:02,960
But then I remember used to be a billboard CEO.

1385
02:07:02,960 --> 02:07:08,960
So, you know, the power of eyeballs and people seem like you know all that.

1386
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:12,960
But if you don't feel good about it, I respect that I've done.

1387
02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:16,960
I've turned away from opportunities like that myself because I didn't feel good about it.

1388
02:07:16,960 --> 02:07:23,960
It didn't feel right to me. But well, now I feel a little guilty because to be featured.

1389
02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:25,960
So I put the feature link in the chat.

1390
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:29,960
So for any of you who want to be featured, go click that link.

1391
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:33,960
And that's the Google form where you can be featured by the sandbox.

1392
02:07:33,960 --> 02:07:36,960
So go do that. It's free.

1393
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:41,960
And all you need to do is explain what what you what your experience is and what you want featured.

1394
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:45,960
But I feel a little guilty now because I took that opportunity.

1395
02:07:45,960 --> 02:07:47,960
No, you should not.

1396
02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:53,960
Because back then, I honestly I thought it was I thought the game was by METHOS

1397
02:07:53,960 --> 02:07:58,960
to METHOS Studios.

1398
02:07:58,960 --> 02:07:59,960
Right.

1399
02:07:59,960 --> 02:08:01,960
What was what studios?

1400
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:06,960
It's the one. So from what one is and you hired that studio to build a game for you, right?

1401
02:08:06,960 --> 02:08:08,960
Oh, Meta Theory Studio. Yeah.

1402
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:09,960
With that. Yeah.

1403
02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:10,960
So I have a.

1404
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:11,960
Eduardo's team.

1405
02:08:11,960 --> 02:08:19,960
But this on it. So yeah. OK, so I thought it was actually a game that was that was their property.

1406
02:08:19,960 --> 02:08:27,960
I felt like, OK, Lancer is probably like the the CEO of Meta Theory because I only also knew Eduardo as well.

1407
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:35,960
So I didn't know back then like what was I just realized now today and speaking with you.

1408
02:08:35,960 --> 02:08:38,960
What did you realize?

1409
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:40,960
That you are not part of Meta Theory.

1410
02:08:40,960 --> 02:08:47,960
No, I'm I'm meta worlds and what we do, we have land and I really wanted to publish things to land.

1411
02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:52,960
And I wanted to partner with with studios who've been here to build on that.

1412
02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:55,960
So so you thought I was CEO of Meta Theory. OK, I got you.

1413
02:08:55,960 --> 02:08:59,960
I understand. So wait, did you did you not like me before this?

1414
02:08:59,960 --> 02:09:02,960
Was that did you have like a criticism?

1415
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:07,960
No, I didn't have any personal opinion because I did not met you.

1416
02:09:07,960 --> 02:09:11,960
Let's just leave it like that.

1417
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:15,960
It's OK. It doesn't offend me, Bruno. I'm I'm OK with that.

1418
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:18,960
It's it's no, no, no, it's nothing.

1419
02:09:18,960 --> 02:09:20,960
We can continue that in the DMS.

1420
02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:24,960
That's something that I have absolutely no thing about seeing public.

1421
02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:27,960
Does it add any value? No. OK, I got you.

1422
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:30,960
Well, I'll put it to you this way.

1423
02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:38,960
I want to build a bigger, better sandbox, and I'm not gifted in Voxel edelene and game making.

1424
02:09:38,960 --> 02:09:44,960
But I know how to find partners who do and to build healthy partnerships.

1425
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:46,960
That's what I'm about.

1426
02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:50,960
I have my strengths and I know what my strengths aren't.

1427
02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:57,960
And I had I had some money from my my cryptocurrency to.

1428
02:09:57,960 --> 02:10:02,960
At least be that person to say, hey, Eduardo, let me pay you and your team for your time,

1429
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:05,960
you know, with the budget that I have for my own business.

1430
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:07,960
And then I'm at the end of my rope now.

1431
02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:13,960
I spent my entire budget and I can't I can't I didn't spend any money on advertising, by the way.

1432
02:10:13,960 --> 02:10:15,960
That wasn't in the budget. I didn't have the money for that.

1433
02:10:15,960 --> 02:10:17,960
So I had to I had to build experiences.

1434
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:22,960
I had to show work and build these mini games for them to replay and be like, all right.

1435
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:29,960
Now I can now I can see if we'll succeed and we got the bad is an excellent use case.

1436
02:10:29,960 --> 02:10:38,960
Like I would point that out as look what floor drop is that when they launch the or look at what Lens did when he launched the floor droppers.

1437
02:10:38,960 --> 02:10:43,960
Like I would use that as a study case, for example.

1438
02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:47,960
Well, I got I spent an all in all honesty.

1439
02:10:47,960 --> 02:11:07,960
Eduardo and I cost shared. So we spent twenty thousand dollars US dollars to build floor droppers and and all the cash prize sand prizes we gave and all the many cases we were giving them away because we couldn't we knew we couldn't earn money back on them.

1440
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:10,960
But I got nine thousand sand.

1441
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:17,960
Nine thousand sand, which is a going rate right now. Thirty three cents like it was 50 cents back then.

1442
02:11:17,960 --> 02:11:25,960
Right. Right. Right. So I earned about four thousand US dollars and I spent Eduardo and I spent twenty thousand.

1443
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:30,960
So I spent about twelve thousand with all the sand giveaways and everything.

1444
02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:42,960
And we did that because we thought that out of the million dollar prize pool million sand prize pool that we would get more than than that. So that didn't work. That's another thing. Yeah.

1445
02:11:42,960 --> 02:11:50,960
That didn't work. And of the of the leaderboard, I think it's way. So I was like half a million sand for just the top two or three.

1446
02:11:50,960 --> 02:12:05,960
I got a tweet saved. Yeah. And and they celebrated them like you're celebrating that the top three got over half of it. Like my man, do you know how much time and effort and money we spent to make this happen?

1447
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:12,960
Actually, I can say this because I paid for this. Like, so who cares? And they're cheaters. And I can say this publicly because I have proof.

1448
02:12:12,960 --> 02:12:21,960
I actually put the balance. There was a bounty for video proof and I have it really. Yeah.

1449
02:12:21,960 --> 02:12:31,960
And I just can't say it because I was so disappointed that that if I had gotten 30,000 sand, I would have been like, oh, my gosh, we succeeded.

1450
02:12:31,960 --> 02:12:46,960
But I got nine thing because that money could have been used for real studios that are really pushing out there for building good for giving value to the platform, giving value to the players, retaining users, acquiring new users.

1451
02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:53,960
Yeah. Just have more tools. That's that was my plans. I would have built another mini game by now if I had gotten that sand.

1452
02:12:53,960 --> 02:13:03,960
I had Eduardo and I had multiple other mini games because I'm a big fan of mini games. I think that's where player retention is, is building little mini games where people can keep playing.

1453
02:13:03,960 --> 02:13:09,960
I've got 25 other mini games I want to build, but I can't because it's perfect for that.

1454
02:13:09,960 --> 02:13:10,960
I can't build them.

1455
02:13:10,960 --> 02:13:23,960
I told you like you spend one sand, you buy these pickaxe, you mine, you get your resources, you get either sand back. I was thinking that as a game, you'd go to the toilet, you sit there for five minutes and you're going to be like, oh, yeah, I'm going to spend one sand.

1456
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:34,960
I'm going to mine. Yeah, I found a ruby. Nice. The ruby is worth now two sand. I just spend one. I got two. Nice. Now I got some gold. I'm going to save it because I want to craft the gold pickaxe.

1457
02:13:34,960 --> 02:13:41,960
Five minutes, log off, I'm done. Continue next time. As fast, as simple as that as well.

1458
02:13:41,960 --> 02:13:59,960
So, yeah, I think the leaderboard structure, it needs to change in terms of the price pool distribution. It needs like, for example, I've mentioned the EP system that combats fraud, that combats bots, that combats unintended gameplay.

1459
02:13:59,960 --> 02:14:01,960
Let's call it like that.

1460
02:14:01,960 --> 02:14:10,960
The curation system for applying that also combats what? It combats duplicate experiences. It combats people trying to exploit the system.

1461
02:14:10,960 --> 02:14:23,960
So all of these tools combined, they will not make it perfect, but they will help substantially to reduce the hazards of running a competition with monetary prizes.

1462
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:29,960
Because there's always going to be bad actors when it involves money. It's just simply as that.

1463
02:14:29,960 --> 02:14:41,960
That's life. There's good people, there's bad people, that's all in between. And it is what it is. What we can do is to prevent ourselves to try to minimize and mitigate that damage.

1464
02:14:41,960 --> 02:15:10,960
So I think if anything learned would be that. And also a system that would allow, I cannot imagine having a UGC platform that does not sustain even like I said, like for example, we've been ending top 20 or top 50 because we have been ranking below the 13, which is like the 3000, which I find utterly surprising to be that low.

1465
02:15:10,960 --> 02:15:15,960
And then seeing, for example, what we just discussed.

1466
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:34,960
And getting like, for example, so we're getting like 1000, we're getting 3000 cents per month. That is like in terms of today's price because that's been the right now that would be 3000, it's like $750 for a full team for a full month.

1467
02:15:34,960 --> 02:15:51,960
That is just way, way, way unsustainable for any business to thrive, especially when we don't have any other monetization strategies like, and I told you feedback in that forum was like, I don't want the Build-A-Challenge to survive.

1468
02:15:51,960 --> 02:16:18,960
I want the tools for me to create an MVP that allows me to generate revenue and value. Either there's a Build-A-Challenge or not, I couldn't care less about the Build-A-Challenge. If I have microtransactions, if I have distribution, lead awards, EP system, APIs, and all of those things available for me to actually create fun, engaging, retaining content that would allow me to monetize.

1469
02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:33,960
Now if there's a Build-A-Challenge on top of that, hey, that's great. That's extra. That would be the extra, you know? So that's how I view things. Build-A-Challenge, it's a good initiative. Go ahead.

1470
02:16:33,960 --> 02:16:35,960
No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

1471
02:16:35,960 --> 02:17:04,960
I was just about to end to summarize. So it's a good initiative. It needs a lot of peaks, and I think having like, you have the special advisory board or special council for the DAO, it would require something like the top 25 studios creators, they would get into the special council and they will go like together like, okay, what we need for the next one, and whoever on the next one ends on the top 25, they would all form a special council, whatever, and be like,

1472
02:17:04,960 --> 02:17:17,960
okay, what went good, what went wrong, what can we improve? They would get together, all their opinions, directly with the sandbox, so that kind of goes. So close opinion on everyone. But that would be my take.

1473
02:17:17,960 --> 02:17:36,960
That would be my take. Well, I want to share this with you. I posted this a couple days ago. So on the sandbox, DAO SIP draft, SIP ideas, I posted a potential SIP that I'm going to be writing about the Builders Challenge Working Group.

1474
02:17:36,960 --> 02:17:51,960
And that's when, oh, you saw that? Okay. Well, that to me was we want to fix Builders Challenge 3, and I say fix, but improve on Builders Challenge 3. And the only thing I couldn't figure out was how do I go about making sure the right people are on that?

1475
02:17:51,960 --> 02:18:05,960
Because I don't necessarily think that I should be on it. I just want to make sure that it is done, because clearly Builders Challenge 1 and 2 had some issues that didn't, even outside of the cheating and all that, didn't fully address like, I know I felt dissatisfied

1476
02:18:05,960 --> 02:18:21,960
as someone who put my everything into those 10 weeks. And I didn't buy my way to the top. I earned it as best as I could through all I paid for was the land, and I paid for the experience to be built. So I paid Eduardo's team.

1477
02:18:21,960 --> 02:18:30,960
I didn't pay for ads. I didn't pay for any of that. And we got to seventh place. And then the next week we got to eighth place. And then after that, we fell off the list and they stopped reporting it, like you said.

1478
02:18:30,960 --> 02:18:39,960
So I don't know, man. How is that possible that we lost so badly? I don't know.

1479
02:18:39,960 --> 02:18:49,960
Not even knowing the remaining of the leaderboard. It just kind of goes like, where's the metrics? I need data to know what we did well versus what we did not do well.

1480
02:18:49,960 --> 02:18:58,960
I need data. I need more data than what they gave me so I could do better. But then SandboxDow came on, and so I didn't really do much for Builders Challenge 2.

1481
02:18:58,960 --> 02:19:12,960
We did have one that I was building with Eduardo, but it ran into some technical challenges with GameMaker, so it wasn't ready. So it's going to publish after Builders Challenge 2, which... whoops.

1482
02:19:12,960 --> 02:19:24,960
But I put together a SIP for Builders Challenge Working Group where people can... where that working group can recommend the framework for Builders Challenge 3.

1483
02:19:24,960 --> 02:19:32,960
And, you know, if the community doesn't like that, then okay, then no problem. It can die. But I felt like...

1484
02:19:32,960 --> 02:19:41,960
It's a bridge. I think it needs that bridge between the devs, the sandbox, the community, the creators, because they know their audience as well, the players.

1485
02:19:41,960 --> 02:19:50,960
And they're the ones building for them, and they're the ones building on their platform. So it really needs that bridge to happen sooner or later.

1486
02:19:50,960 --> 02:20:00,960
Yeah. If y'all like the idea of that, then please let me know, because I have it on our... my team's queue to work, but it's not at the very top.

1487
02:20:00,960 --> 02:20:13,960
So if you all want something like this, which I'll put in the chat, if you all like this idea here, building the Builders Challenge Working Group, which is to propose rules and framework for Builders Challenge 3,

1488
02:20:13,960 --> 02:20:28,960
then please let me know that, so then I'll bump it up higher on my priority list. Because right now, the Creator Toolkit thing that I just added, as far as I'm concerned, I'm probably going to rank that one up above the Builders Challenge Working Group being created,

1489
02:20:28,960 --> 02:20:39,960
because the Toolkit is clearly something that's going to help you all. So if I can help Bruno, you and everyone write that, then to me that would be more important than a Builders Challenge Working Group.

1490
02:20:39,960 --> 02:20:44,960
But if the community disagrees, let me know. And you know, maybe...

1491
02:20:44,960 --> 02:20:54,960
Well, my Builders Challenge is an extra. Toolkit is the MVP. We need the MVP. Builders Challenge is an extra. I wouldn't care less about the Builders Challenge if I have my own MVP on the game.

1492
02:20:54,960 --> 02:21:02,960
Then I'm like, I'm good. I can now I can acquire. That's what the sandbox wants really hard for creators to acquire new users.

1493
02:21:02,960 --> 02:21:17,960
Although I disagree with that because UGC doesn't work like that. Usually Spotify does the ads, YouTube do the ads, the Roblox does the ads, Minecraft does the ads, and the creators, they retain the users.

1494
02:21:17,960 --> 02:21:30,960
So that's the chain of command. The platform acquires users, the creators retain users. And until they don't, until they figure that out, which is how the other platform works, we're still going to have a problem.

1495
02:21:30,960 --> 02:21:39,960
But either way, with the MVP, we can also help with that as well. We would be the extra for the sandbox to acquire new users.

1496
02:21:39,960 --> 02:21:51,960
So that would be my priorities. Actually, one, it solves studios, creators, they can monetize, they cannot, they don't need to be dependent on programs such as the Game Maker Fund or the Builders Challenge or whatever might be.

1497
02:21:51,960 --> 02:22:04,960
They just can run their operations as they wish at their own pace. And yeah, they have all the tools to be sustainable and also create even a more diverse ecosystem around the game.

1498
02:22:04,960 --> 02:22:13,960
Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's, that's fast. I feel like there's another conversation here that we could be having.

1499
02:22:13,960 --> 02:22:30,960
And I think I want I want to do another podcast with you in sometime in the future about sure sure. It will be a pleasure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've been going for two and a half hours, man. Are you you feel like it's time to wrap up?

1500
02:22:30,960 --> 02:22:36,960
Well, actually, I was feeling something here is like, I'm not sure how much time passed, but I'm feeling something on my body.

1501
02:22:36,960 --> 02:22:44,960
Gotcha. Yes. So what we can do is we can close out for this podcast episode. We ended up talking a lot more.

1502
02:22:44,960 --> 02:22:59,960
We originally intended this to get to San Fam Cafe and we talked a little bit about that. We started talking a lot about everything else. So still, this was a great app. This is a great conversation, man. I appreciated talking with you.

1503
02:22:59,960 --> 02:23:12,960
Likewise. So all right, we'll close out this episode. I don't see anyone that I can raid on the sandbox. So is there anyone, Bruno, that that you think that we should raid?

1504
02:23:12,960 --> 02:23:23,960
Is that it's just me in the sandbox genre right now. And I don't see anyone on my end that I would that I could read.

1505
02:23:23,960 --> 02:23:32,960
I don't see. And by the way, I just want to thank everyone for writing. I was not paying too much attention in the comments because I wanted to be very focused on what we're happening right here.

1506
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:42,960
Otherwise, I would be too much distracted that I see there's a lot of message and you are reading a couple of them. So I just wanted to thank you for being here for writing all of those messages.

1507
02:23:42,960 --> 02:23:49,960
Keep showing up. Keep caring and supporting. So appreciate you for all being here.

1508
02:23:49,960 --> 02:24:05,960
Yeah, thank you all very much for being here. And those are my experiences right there. And I'm going to post again, Pickaxe Master and his experiences temple of the Four Winds and Misty Mountains.

1509
02:24:05,960 --> 02:24:09,960
So here is the first one. Please check it out.

1510
02:24:09,960 --> 02:24:14,960
And Misty Mountains is

1511
02:24:14,960 --> 02:24:19,960
right here. This one.

1512
02:24:19,960 --> 02:24:34,960
Bruno has been around for longer than I have and been, as you can see, put a lot of time and effort and into those games to where he now has a fully functioning community around Pickaxe Master and the mining clans and the tribes or the families.

1513
02:24:34,960 --> 02:24:36,960
I think it was called.

1514
02:24:36,960 --> 02:24:39,960
And please

1515
02:24:39,960 --> 02:24:45,960
your participation helps build up the community and in the DAO here

1516
02:24:45,960 --> 02:24:53,960
for the sandbox spaces. So we got the Discord with the sandbox DAO forums. We have the Twitter. Excuse me, the Twitter feeds.

1517
02:24:53,960 --> 02:25:03,960
And then for Mochaverse Hall on Mondays, Bulls on the Block on Saturdays, Coffee with Captains sometimes talk about sandbox. That's Monday through Friday in the mornings.

1518
02:25:03,960 --> 02:25:16,960
Whale members. So they've been around for a long time as well. They have a Tuesday Twitter space and then Sandfam Cafe, which does it monthly. And are you still going to do it monthly or are you rolling that down now?

1519
02:25:16,960 --> 02:25:25,960
For now, I think I'm rolling a little bit down because my motivation levels towards the sandbox have been decreasing a little bit over time.

1520
02:25:25,960 --> 02:25:39,960
It feels more as a burden than actually enjoying and if that's the feeling I'm getting, I don't want to transmit that. So right now I think it's at a stop.

1521
02:25:39,960 --> 02:25:46,960
I would love to get, for example, I like yourself, Crafter and everyone else that also does streaming to get this also like pretty much decentralized.

1522
02:25:46,960 --> 02:26:02,960
Anyone would have the power just to, hey, let's do a Sandfam Cafe. I think it's a show with its own very specific set or structure, like three questions, five minutes per person there, just community questions in between.

1523
02:26:02,960 --> 02:26:21,960
So anything that anyone would be able very, very easily to follow. So probably going towards that, I don't think the project should die because I just don't feel like doing anything anymore. So probably just be like, let's open it up. It's open. Anyone can start it. Yeah, it's free.

1524
02:26:21,960 --> 02:26:25,960
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

1525
02:26:25,960 --> 02:26:33,960
Well, I appreciate your time, Bruno. Obrigado. Thank you.

1526
02:26:33,960 --> 02:26:52,960
I know a little bit. Just that word. Yeah. It's a dialect, the small one. So he's a tourist. Yeah. Yeah. Obrigado, Bruno. Obrigado. I really appreciate this conversation. This was a lot more than I expected and I'm so happy that we got to talk.

1527
02:26:52,960 --> 02:26:59,960
I know I've been pestering you about being on Sandfam Cafe for a while now.

1528
02:26:59,960 --> 02:27:14,960
I know. That was like, I want to also just bring that because I was so few people, only one time per month. I know they had like these sort of structure things and I was like, okay, I can get Manzer, but like probably at this stage. You would have been invited if I did last month.

1529
02:27:14,960 --> 02:27:29,960
That's all right. I get it. I'm not offended at all. I get that you had a lot to do and it was monthly and it was your own personal time. Whereas me, I love this stuff. So I'm going to invite you back on.

1530
02:27:29,960 --> 02:27:41,960
More towards the vowel, but yeah. Yeah. Manzer, thank you so much for having me. And thank you everyone for watching this show. Yeah, thank you all. There is someone I found that I'm going to raid. I'm going to raid a nonprofit organization.

1531
02:27:41,960 --> 02:28:01,960
One of the people who helped stack up, they help bring people to floor droppers every week. So they're one of the ones that they helped us get seventh place by bringing in like every week they were having 10 to 20 people play sandbox for play floor droppers for a couple hours.

1532
02:28:01,960 --> 02:28:13,960
And so 10 people times two, like that's what really got us every single week up to there that that first week. So I'm going to go ahead and raid stack up and then we will close out.

1533
02:28:13,960 --> 02:28:33,960
Raid stack up or think it is right. I'm trying to find them now stack up dot org stack. And there we go. We started the raid. So thank you all for your time. And I'm Bruno again. Obligado, my friend. Thank you so much.

1534
02:28:33,960 --> 02:28:36,960
Thank you so much. Everyone have a great day.

1535
02:28:36,960 --> 02:28:46,960
All right, see you.