All right, everyone, this is Sandow Podcast Episode 10.
And today we have Dr. Loretta Chen, CEO and co-founder of Smobler, who is on the Sandbox
Dow Advisory Board.
And today we're going to learn about Dr. Chen, Loretta, and her perspective as an advisory
board member.
Thank you so much for having me, Shane.
It is an honor, a pleasure, a delight.
It's great to share my thoughts, energies with wonderful people like-minded individuals
in a community.
But my first disclaimer is I have a lot of pets, as many of you probably already know.
I talk about this all the time.
And so I literally have five little kitty cats around me.
You can't see them.
So if I occasionally go off camera or you see something jump over, it's nothing supernatural.
It's just my kitty cats playing.
They're very excited.
And this is the time they're all awake.
They're literally all awake and doing a carnival and Cirque du Soleil around me.
So I just wanted you folks to be prepared.
Little feline acrobatics.
Yes, exactly.
So today, the scope of the talk group is today's a meet and greet with Loretta.
And I said SIPDRAF, excuse me.
It's a meet and greet and a learning opportunity.
So those are the two things that we are after today.
And jumping straight into introductions.
So I'm Lancer, the podcast host.
I'm a landowner and avatar owner.
I have a wow.
I love my wow.
My world of women.
The NFT, I run around with her and sandbox all the time.
And I love business, entrepreneurship, gaming.
And the DAO is like that perfect intersection to where it just it speaks to me.
And so I'm doing this to really just explore the DAO, everything about it.
I didn't know what it was 60 days ago.
So I had to learn fast along with a lot of other people in San Fam.
And I've been in different communities like BOTB, the Bulls on the Block, Ostracadies,
Mochaverse Hall, some of the things that Loretta herself were AMA, did AMAs in.
And just learning what do the different DAOs do, what's working, what's not working.
And then just have podcasts like this where we can learn with people and talk to people
and see what the community is all about.
And that wraps up me, Loretta, would you please introduce yourself?
You know, you just put me to shame.
I actually think that you know so much more about the space and the DAO than I do.
You know, and sometimes one of the things about being a founder is that you're flying
the plane.
You're building and you're building a plane as you're flying it.
And so so much time is spent, you know, creating things, breaking things, fixing things, right?
Talking to folks, you know, you know, listening to your staff and growing the community that
I often always, you know, bemoan the fact that I don't have enough time to be learning
about my history.
So I actually am absolutely delighted to be on these sorts of AMAs and podcasts where
I get to know our community members.
I get to know what you think, what you feel, what you do.
And this becomes a learning opportunity for me.
So thank you all for having me and for sharing again your time.
So just quick background.
I think we had a joke just prior.
I think Shane was saying, what is it that I don't do?
I don't do technology, which is kind of funny, given that I am a founder now of Smobla, which
is a Metapass first and digital first agency.
So a little bit about me, born and raised in Singapore.
We'll talk a little bit about that.
Happy National Day to all my Singaporean friends.
Born and raised in Singapore, was educated obviously in Singapore, in London, in the
UK, so you could probably tell a little bit from my accent.
Also did my PhD in UCLA and always had my career in three different verticals, academia,
obviously, academia, education, entertainment, my entire family is in entertainment and in
entrepreneurship.
So I had a career on radio, on TV, in the theater, in publishing as a shameless Shane.
And I also ran a deactivation group with my brother, my second brother, Eric, where we
designed and built retail spaces and a global travel and retail scene as well as doing the
branding, marketing and events.
So fast forward to 2014, I moved to Hawaii and really went back to what I love to do,
which was working with women and youths and social enterprise and education.
But fast forward to 2020, one of my ex staff who'd lost job over COVID called me and he
has an autistic son and was down to his last $70.
And we didn't see any light at the end of the tunnel.
This was just to set it in context, take us back to 2020, April, May.
There was no vaccine in sight, everyone is in lockdown, it's a black swan event.
So my altruistic bleeding heart was like, what could I do to help in this very helpless
situation?
And when Ruel told me about the Sandbox Open Metabase and the ability to be a creator,
I got really interested and I leaned in really for him and for other creators who lost their
work.
And I saw that it was something fundamentally groundbreaking about this blockchain technology
that the ability to then own our data was something that was going to be rather revolutionary.
And so while I don't have background in gaming or in blockchain, the entrepreneur and the
creator soon saw the opportunity to bring brands, IPs and communities into the space.
And that's how we grew.
The curse and the gift of an entrepreneur.
That's absolutely right.
The curse and the gift, they're like two days, the joy and the days and the life.
You need to fill in the there's so many needs.
Yeah, the day you establish the company and the day you sell it off or get it acquired
or IPO.
I mean, I've been a zero entrepreneur.
My previous companies have either been acquired or M&A.
So you know, we'll see what happens to Smolberg.
But yeah, happy to take any questions.
I'll pause there and then let you leave the conversation.
Yeah, you so I think I heard you say earlier on you were in a newscaster or you were a
radio show talk show host.
So I ran my own show in the 90s.
It was called Go 90 FM.
Classic old very 90s.
Yeah.
And so I can also talk like that.
I can talk like that and be like a regular Singapore girl.
You know, today is my Singapore's national day.
So I can always slip into my Singaporean accent.
But yeah, I ran my own radio show.
And then I later on ran my own show as well called The Art of Lush with Loretta Chen on
Lush.
You can easily revert back to that voice, huh?
Yes, yes.
So that's really fun.
And I had to read the news as well.
And you know, that was something that and having said that, just having the opportunity
building broadcast media really gave me a huge understanding on how the media landscape
works, which is also why, you know, transitioning into Web3 was fairly easy for me because I
recognized how privileged I was to have been able to be an institutionalized broadcast
media.
Right.
So back then, you know, you have to be selected or shortlisted or handpicked to be on TV,
radio, insert, major broadcast institutions.
Because today, every single person yourself, Shane, right, the 12 year old that has 200
million followers, like every single person today is a media platform.
So I find that hugely exciting.
And really, I feel very blessed to have seen the transition having been a broadcast broadcaster
myself and me being institutionalized media to now I'm transiting and being part of the
creator economy is a great joy for me.
Wow, that's that's really special.
That's a good beginning into the institutional side of things.
And now that you're here in the more decentralized place, you walk into it with an appreciation
for what the other side goes through taking the best because there's good and bad with
everything.
So taking the best from that and then augmenting where you currently are.
So I have no doubt that's that's enabling where you are now.
That's absolutely right, Shane.
And I think it's having you know, it's the benefit of hindsight and older age, right?
Folks down the space a lot younger than me.
And recognizing that there's so much more media savvy.
I mean, they're born with a digital code attached to it's not an umbilical cord anymore.
And it's it's it's tied to their to their digital gadgets.
And I think it is very heartening and also exciting to see how every single young person
today really wants to be a creator.
In a way when I was younger, you know, I think already a very traditional family where every
single one of us is an artist and an entrepreneur.
That's already very, very different in Asian family.
My parents were hugely supportive.
I did not have the traditional Asian story where Asian mom and dad says don't be this
and that don't do this and that do this and that my Asian parents were like, go be the
best version of you.
We love you.
Oh, that's special.
You know, and that already is such a blessing that that I know that I have that I always
try to pay for it.
So and then you speak, is it Malay or Tamil?
Okay, so when I can speak Mandarin and I can believe that Malay meaning I can speak a little
bit of Malay just a little bit.
Okay.
All right.
And so just having that background of a very atypical Asian family being raised as an artist,
as an entrepreneur to do the best that I be the best version of me.
And now seeing to your point that transit where you needed to be institutionalized media
and it was only powers held by a few to today where everyone has the power to be media,
right?
Leading to the conversation we're having today on the sandbox down that we're democratizing,
you know, commercial community spaces, which I think is the heart of today's conversation.
But I'm happy to have you into those directions.
Yeah, absolutely.
So thank you for forgiveness.
You're very colorful background that see like I like, like I said before, it seems like
there's a shorter list of what you haven't done.
Really, it's quite fascinating.
And so let's move on to the disclaimer.
So normally I say I do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.
Do you have any representation of any kind for the sandbox foundation or sandbox doubt?
I think I can say that I am an advisor, but I certainly cannot speak on behalf of the
sandbox or the organization, but I definitely can't speak for myself as the founder of smobler,
which is an investee studio of the sandbox, but I certainly cannot speak all the sandbox
and shout out to smobler smobler.
It is a made up word.
It's two Swedish words smart and blah, blah, blah.
So smart means small and blah, blah is furniture.
So basically, it's two words that mean like small assets or small furniture, which really
was how we started building a small little box of assets in the sandbox before we grew.
Yeah, well shout out to the smobler because you currently have a experience called battleground
that is live.
Yes, we do.
It is one of the most exciting FPS first person shooter games.
And you know, huge tutors to my team, but working so hard.
And I think we had huge praise from Panda Pops, who I think is a queen and a legend
in her space.
So most definitely is I'm trying to get her on the podcast too.
Yeah, and so when she says it's a great game and the best that she has seen plate being
in I mean, I take that as a huge accomplishment.
So I really thank her for that.
And of course, the community that's been so wonderfully supportive.
Yeah.
And she had the honor of her visiting mine.
And she was very, very kind to do so.
So I appreciated that so much.
I actually want to make a big shout out to her too, because I think she she was the first
person to I think, a person who designed my avatar.
Yeah, really?
I think I met her, you know, and in person and because I said, I don't know how to do
this, my team does it.
She said, Oh, I'm going to show you and she proceeded to literally when I was standing
right in front of her, create my avatar, you know, based on what I was wearing in this
little yellow outfit I was wearing, because this is my official color.
It's mobile.
And yeah, she also gave she also really endowed me with with.
Yeah, I was very curvy.
Let's just put it that way.
Representation of me.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Yes.
I was very well in depth.
Yeah.
So we do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation and we are not your
financial or legal advisors.
So nothing we say here is to be taken as such unless Loretta says otherwise for herself.
Okay, we'll quickly go through the scoreboard because there were some interesting updates
that happened.
We are now there are two sifts that are open for voting sips number nine and 10.
Nine is an NFT collection curator nomination, where I didn't know this until I talked to
Arthmore about it, the Dow is about to receive 14,000 NFTs from the I think it's a combination
of of of Seb and Jean Michel and some other benefactors where they're gifting it to the
Dow.
And so this sip is to nominate for a curator to refocus the collection from a multivariable.
It's kind of all over the place with different profile picture type investment or ownerships
to a more I think they call it he said the word provenance.
So like a theme, it creates something that says something about the sandbox.
Whereas right now it's it's too it's it's too all over the place for it to do so.
So we we have to open for voting now.
And the second one is blockchain events in Asia.
And I saw your studio and they're Loretta.
So yeah, that's right.
I'll be happy to talk a little bit more about that.
Absolutely.
So there there's some blockchain events going on in Latin America and Asia, that that they're
seeking funding to set up booths and all the different sort of outreach expenses needed
to reach a new demographic to show people about the Dow.
And that's as far as I could understand.
That's what it is.
Is that close?
Did I get close?
Yeah, like I said, I think you're definitely much more well prepared than I am.
And yeah, so I can definitely speak more to the event that we're creating.
So we are creating Nova Nova is our signature event in Smola.
Again, background, like I told you, but design and build retail stores.
And I created the branding and marketing as well as the live events for for a long period
of time when I was running the activation group.
And I moved to Hawaii, so that was like 16 years as a co founder together with my brother
of the activation group.
And so I've always felt that even though I am in a digital space and we love our different
media platforms that we are on now, I still think there's something really magical about
meeting face to face and being able to break bread, give a hug to somebody that you have
not met for a long time, we've just never seen.
And so Nova really is the celebration of our in real life opportunities post covid as well
as an ability to bring Web 2 leaders and Web 3 OGs into a space together to create more
networking opportunities to have a chance to create even more partnerships, collaborations.
So this started last year.
It's an official site event at token 2049.
And of course, we had the sandbox there, Sebastian was there.
We also had Sandy Carter from Unstoppable Domains being there and she did her book launch
there.
We had one of Singapore celebrities in Chuan launch a music initiative that we're also
building out.
And this year we launched it last year.
And then this year, you know, we're ready to show the world to the rest of the world.
And this year we also have Champ Medici of Snoop Sun joining us as well.
So so what happened was we started doing Nova as a site event in Singapore token 2049.
And then we did another Nova at Austin as an official site event to South by Southwest.
And there we launched Austin verse together with the mayor of Austin.
And so this year for Nova Singapore edition, it's going to be even bigger, better because
we are partnering with the Ordinal Summit.
Why?
Because Smobler is launching our own Ordinal's inscription.
That's super exciting, which I will share more.
It is going to be the first cross chain Bitcoin Ethereum cross IP sandbox, Roblox collection.
And so Smobler has even built our own DAP to facilitate the interoperability between these
Web2 and Web3 communities.
So feel free to quiz me more about that.
But that is the huge announcement.
I think you're one of the first folks to actually hear this.
So Nova this year is going to be huge.
We're going to bring in celebrity DJs.
We have like a sit Champ Medici coming in.
We're launching our own Ordinal's.
We're partnering with Ordinal Summit, Opal Foundation, lots of exciting announcements
to be made.
A lot of connections.
Yeah, September 17, September 6 to 9 p.m. in the biggest club in Orchard Road called
Up In Levec.
So I'll just pause there and have you jump in.
And where was that?
You said Arche 11?
So it's a big club that's 8000 square feet.
It's called Arche 11.
And the reason why we selected a space is also because it fits with our theme.
It's very futuristic.
It looks like a little space shuttle.
You walk out and you feel like you're in Gettyca.
For those of you who are old enough to watch Gettyca, well, that's my reference at least.
Like you sort of walk out and it's like a very futuristic space.
So we're very excited and I'm very happy to invite folks to log on to smobler.io and
click on Nova to reserve your free tickets today as well.
Smobler.io.
Okay, I'm there.
And Nova 2024.
I see it.
Yeah, go and encourage all your viewers, listeners, supporters to go grab a ticket.
And it's a really exciting time to be in Singapore.
Yay, Singapore!
Because it's token 2049 and it is also the F1 season.
So you have a lot of crypto boys and gals there.
You have a lot of F1 enthusiasts and of course you have a lot of Web3 gaming enthusiasts
and just folks who are just genuinely excited about innovation, change, technology, you
know, really fun time to be alive.
Good.
So ARK 11 and Orchard Central.
And where is that?
I need to Google that.
What is that?
Oh, it's right in the heart of Orchard Road.
So I don't know which one.
Yeah, I don't know where you are.
But it's like being like right in the heart of Times Square.
If you're in New York City, you know, it's like being right there where it is.
It's like Orchard Road is the mecca shopping, you know, extravaganza of Singapore.
So yeah, that's where events going to be.
So if you are nearby in Singapore, consider going to Nova 2024 at ARK 11 and Orchard Central
and check out Smobler.
Yes, yes, exactly.
There you go.
Luma ticket and Moongate ticket.
All right.
So outside of those two SIPs, there are two new SIPs in the draft section.
One is for the Sandbox Academy in the Philippines by Bago.
And the second is a Sandbox Ambassador Program by TSB.
So go ahead and check out.
There's a lot to participate in.
If you're Sand Fam and ask your questions to the new SIPs and cast your vote for the
current SIPs on the voting floor.
And selfish plug for myself, we have submitted five of our six SIPs right now, the last one
being the Sandow podcast.
Just currently going back and forth between myself and the PM team to get funding for
this podcast.
And so I'm pretty excited about that one.
We'll see how that works out.
Wonderful.
I really hope the community will support you and thank you for the work that you do.
And you know, just a big shout out to I think one of the reasons why I really wanted to
participate in the DAO is to your point, right?
I think in hindsight, I've always felt incredibly blessed to have been part of established media
to have always had a platform, whether it was in radio or television or theater or
publishing and recognizing that, you know, just not so long ago, see in the 90s, these
avenues were not made accessible to a lot of folks.
And then of course, you know, I remember in 2008, that was when because I was a media
personality in a press call, we said, hey, Loretta, what do you know about Facebook?
I remember this was like, hey, Facebook.
And I was like, ah, let me go.
I don't even know if I say Google that I was like, let me go.
The dog pile.
Dog pile.
Right.
AOL that right.
AOL.
And so and so and so I think, you know, it was I think none of us then had the realization
that this what we now call social media, the age of interaction is going to be as big
as it is today.
And so I think fast forward to we now see, especially in 2008, 2008, 2016 elections on
how, you know, central or centralized media and technology sometimes wreak havoc.
And I think the watershed moment was also with folks sort of woke up to recognize that
a lot of our information, our data, our creations are now technically being owned by.
And it's not to say that there isn't a place for all parties to exist.
It is, I think, always about having opportunity, having choice.
I think it really is about having folks have the freedom to be able to access different
media, different platforms.
And so I think that's why I'm really excited.
Agency.
And to have agency.
Exactly.
To have agency.
And so we know that these are early days.
We know that these are experimental phases.
We know that there are a lot of skeptics.
But I nonetheless think that it is really important for us as visionaries and changemakers
to have some sense of idealism, because you do need a sense of courage and fearlessness
to chart something new.
And I think it's really exciting to be able to empower our landowners, our sand holders
to have the opportunity to have a voice and a say in a community that matters to them.
As in real life, as you know, it's not easy to get people to vote.
But I do think that it is important.
A current predicament for us right now.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But it is important for us to consistently push, you know, to have different voices to
be heard and to exercise ability to vote.
Yeah.
And a plug again, two sips on the voting floor.
We've had trouble reaching quorum the past three sips.
And one of them failed because they didn't reach quorum.
That was the the Paris City jam, unfortunately.
It had the positive vote.
It just didn't reach the 30 million needed.
So that's currently a predicament of ours that we're that we're trying to rectify with
reaching out things like this and touching base with known landowners and sand owners
to just get the word out.
Vote yes, vote no, just vote.
Give it give it your consideration, please.
That's right.
I think again, you know, I'm a Singaporean, so I'm not here to be talking about U.S. politics
at all.
But, you know, as one of the party candidates is, you know, when you vote, you know, you
win.
And I really think it's so important for us to exercise agency and our voice, especially
if it's a community that you believe in.
You know, I think I encourage everybody to lean in and just read.
I think it's always so exciting to be part of something new.
So education for me is key and just being aware of what's happening.
So hopefully a little podcast would inspire a few folks to go into the sandbox down and
go read up on the six that are out there.
And we really want your support and have you come join us in some of these events and just
that lots of folks have put a lot of heart and thought into.
Yeah, we're all one same thing.
And I can attest just how hard it is to do a sip.
Oh, my gosh, it is.
It takes a lot of effort.
Yeah, it forces you to really think through.
So it's not like, yeah, you know, let me just tweet something and have people vote.
No, it really is a very thoughtful process.
I think for most folks have not done this.
Like to your point, you may not have a real appreciation of how much thought actually
goes into this.
So the team actually works really hard.
So a big shout out, obviously, to Cyril Ford, who was a head of Dow and the team works really
hard to try and canvas, corral and also guide the six.
And it also helps the community to really think through our ideas a lot better.
Right.
Sometimes the best way to be challenged is to be challenged and to voice out your thoughts
so it's not in your head and to have to discuss it for the people to have to present it before
you present it to public.
It has to be a well thought through idea.
So just exercise on its own to your point, she is incredibly valuable.
They're it's it's been it's been a real joy to to learn through this process and in all
the different things that are required to to make this work.
I mean, you have to think about everything you the schedule.
How does it impact the schedule?
If I want this part, does it increase the cost?
Is that acceptable?
Is it reasonable?
Like, at what point do I know I need to taper off the cost because I know it's not going
to be accepted by the community?
It's just there is there's so much to to go through.
But yeah, so hats off to anyone who creates a sip because it is an endeavor.
So I noticed getting down to the discussion piece for the for your background.
You're also a mocha holder.
Yes, I am.
I am a mocha mocha lies.
What they say is that what they say?
Yeah, you know, I have to confess, right?
I am one of the early mocha holders and I've been just I read I'm like, wow, you know,
look at what so obviously, you know, I keep in touch with, you know, my mocha community,
but they have to say, wow, they're, you know, they're killing it.
Literally, I think that mocha committee is really grown and I see folks being really
happy about being part of the mocha community.
And yeah, so it's exciting.
And it's making big moves.
I am a new mocha holder.
So I think I, I obtained a mocha maybe three weeks ago.
And they just right before they did the airdrop where you can stake and all that.
And so I chose to vest.
So I'm in it for a minute with the team for the long haul.
And yeah, is that what they say?
Diamond hands.
Yeah.
So I'm very excited about that.
Yeah, I got my mocha and my was an easy selection.
I just got all the ones with cats.
So it's like that was her mom, the 25 cats.
I don't know how you do it.
All that world domination and plotting going on in your house.
It's a lot happening now.
It's a little carnival.
So let's move to there's something I noticed when I was looking at your background, possibility
per people, purpose and possibilities.
But what the question I was going to ask first was what drives you and, and I was thinking
that there was my answer right there.
Can you can you make the connection?
What what do you really what really motivates you?
I was going to add the other piece pets because I don't even hear it by my cats are going
like this and I'm you know, it's it's dinner time.
But you know, I think a lot of people think I do a lot of things.
But what I really want to say is I really do just three things.
Really, I create, I connect, I communicate, just like an artist, you know, that, you know,
works that craft over different canvases, whether it's digital art, or whether it's
sculpture, or whether it's watercolor, or whether it is acrylic, you know, or just regular
pencil sketching your painter as well.
Yeah, actually, my brother, big shout out to my brother Edmond Chen, Google him.
He's the world's.
He owns the Guinness Book of World Records for the longest painting in the world.
And he also happens to be Singapore's Tom Cruise, and a really excellent actor.
Oh, that's cool.
That's special.
I also have a Guinness World Record most moves.
Really?
Yeah.
So so I create I'm I'm I connect with that big time.
Music novels, I've just been same thing, but more of the artist industry instead of whereas
you were quite quite the serial entrepreneur in the industrial and it's quite impressive.
Thank you.
I think every single person in my family, Edmond, Eric and I, that's my two brothers
and I we I think we just can't sit still like we always say, what's the next challenge?
What's the next challenge?
I think we egg each other on.
Yeah.
So really, I think what I do and thank you for picking that up, my tech line has never
changed.
In fact, I've always been very, very consistent.
Everyone thinks that I am such a queen of reinvention, but really fundamentally, the
packaging may change, but the core of me remains the same.
I'm inspired by all purpose and possibilities.
I think the heart of what I do is always about trying to create a metaverse for good or creating
a community for good.
Whether with the platforms that I use, we're TV, radio, publishing, and now in the digital
space or creating real world space, this is always about how do I bring people together?
How do I create diverse ideas, possibilities together?
Because I truly think that when we can envision and we can make that come to coalition or
fruition, I mean, that in itself is really powerful.
The ability to bring people together and the ability to because I've always said that because
I've always had the ability to or to have the fortune, the good fortune and a privilege
to be put in a director position, whether it's an artistic director, a creative director,
a founder.
And I realized that what is similar in all these roles is the ability to sit and listen
to very diverse points of view and to make every single person feel heard, respected,
and yet be able to bring all these diverse talents, views, possibilities together in
a united vision.
And I think that is such a skill, whether running a small startup or running a country
or running a down that really is what it is.
It's about bringing all these diverse possibilities and perspectives together and then to form
one not perfect but a petrol state of possibility.
I think I don't think utopias exist, but I think that the continual push for us to want
to do better, to want to come together, to challenge each other and to believe in possibilities
that things can be better.
I think that's what inspires me in every single thing that I do, whether it's a book that
I wrote or a sip that I'm creating or an event that I'm creating.
The next one's got to be better.
The work is never perfect and finished, but it's perpetual work in progress.
And I think that really defines who I am and what I truly believe in.
It's the act of purpose that makes it really fun for me.
I connect with that.
I learned very early.
It took me a little while.
My first business that I owned, I tried to wait for it to be perfect.
I didn't realize that had I had got that 80% solution and then just iterated on that,
I would have been leagues.
That compounding interest in terms of experience.
Absolutely.
I didn't realize that.
I wanted to be perfect because when they saw it, it had to be great.
And then I didn't realize until my second or third business that, well, hold on.
If you get it reasonable and out the door, then you can improve and make it better and
better and better.
And whatever you started with, it'll be leagues ahead of that.
And that's something that sounds like you've been doing for a while now.
And now, it's mobbler.
That's right.
That also means that to never be afraid of having these mistakes, right?
Because these really are the opportunities for you to learn and grow.
I mean, as the startup founder, I mean, like I said, I've been a serial entrepreneur.
Literally, one of my staff was just texting me.
She's like, wow, what has happened?
And I said, yeah, but I have all of you to count on.
And I think to your point, I think it's the continuous pursuit, right?
And it's to lean into very uncomfortable moments and it's not to fear those mistakes.
Because honestly, that's exactly when you learn.
It's exactly when you pivot.
It's exactly when you look back and you think, huh, should I edit that?
Should I change that?
Should I rethink that?
Do I need to recalculate, recalibrate?
And then forces so much more clear analysis by paralysis.
Exactly.
So, so do it and then fix it, you know, rebuild it.
But I would say not lose faith and be a little fearless.
Yeah.
You have two entrepreneurs here, if you're listening, telling you, just go do it.
If you take my route, you will be in the analysis phase forever.
And then by the time you submit it, you'll be like, oh my gosh, I wish I had done this
years ago.
How much effort could I have put in to make it better if I had just set it out there?
Because once you set it out there, then it starts interacting with reality.
And that's what really gets you further along.
Oh, I wish I could talk to my young 18 year old self again.
Well, that's just two years ago, right?
So you've got to...
Sure, sure.
So people, purpose and possibilities and pets.
And you do this by creating, connecting and communicating.
Yes, yes, I do.
And what I very much hear is, shoot for the moon and even if you miss, you'll land amongst
the stars theme going on.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
That's always been...
Yeah, that is definitely something that's really close to my heart.
Yes, absolutely.
But also to always have a really strong network around you, you know, and when you need a
strong network, you don't have to have like a 1 million follower community.
I think sometimes just to build really, you know, just to have something that you can
rely on, right?
Whether it's your faith or your family, for me, my pets and a few close friends, you know,
a few mentors and role models you look up to.
For me, like I said, I'm very thankful I have my family.
But you know, I think it's to find these pillars that you can count on and then, you know,
just go forth and create.
I think that's really important.
And that's why we also want this doubt going back to your premise of this conversation,
right?
That do we think it's going to be perfect?
No.
But are we all game to make this an arena where folks can, you know, feel that they
are part of?
Yes, right?
Are we going to get this right from day one?
No.
I think Sebastian, myself and a lot of advisors and special council members who have gone
on podcasts and AMAs have said that, you know, we don't think that this is going to be perfect
the minute we set this up.
But that is why we continually want to make this better with all your input and your feedback.
And there are going to be times when folks aren't happy with the Build This Challenge
or they're unhappy with this or that.
Or similarly, it's not our team says, oh, we want this or a committee member says we
want that.
I think these are the processes that hone you.
And then you continually try to be better than than you are yesterday.
That really is the enterprise.
And in what?
I think I might have missed it.
So you're, you're now a co founder of Smaller.
What was the the entry point into the sandbox?
When did your previous self and sandbox meet?
Oh, yeah.
So I actually gave a little bit of a preamble to that at the start, but then I'll make that
a little bit clearer as well.
So I was already in Hawaii.
I had exited from the activation group and I had gone back to my.
Oh, right.
Right.
Yeah.
I have many, many fuzz loves.
I went back to education.
I went back to social enterprise.
I then started a program in the penitentiary, the state penitentiary in Hawaii.
And I was working with women and fundraising.
I was doing all of that.
And during COVID, my ex staff who worked for me, the activation group asked me for for
this opportunity to ask for opportunities for work.
And he had discovered the sandbox open metaverse.
And so to put it even clearer.
Okay, okay.
I understand.
I missed that that little link there.
Okay.
No, no.
So I'll make that very clear.
So what happened was that and this is a great question.
I'm glad you asked was that this was this takes us back to 2020, where there was so
much hype on metaverse.
And this is even before Facebook changed its name to meta.
But there was already this sort of burgeoning, you know, this bull market starting to to
happen.
And there were so many folks and founders who were saying, oh, we're starting this metaverse
and that metaverse.
But the reason why we worked with a sandbox was a few things.
I think one, the white people was very robust.
I think they had a very clear idea of where they were headed.
Like I said, I think it's not about perfection.
But I thought they had a clear idea because they articulated that they have these limited
lands just like Bitcoin, but you always have 21 million.
That's a separate conversation I'm happy to have.
But it's about demand supply will always have this limited supply of hundred and sixty six
thousand something lands.
And I thought like that that intention itself is very thoughtful and robust because compared
to some other metaverses, they said, oh, we have unlimited supply of land.
And that to me was just like, how is that going to be valuable?
Because it's so meta.
It's so metaverse.
And this unlimited, right?
It's just metaverse everywhere.
Yeah.
And the value is value is in scarcity.
And if you could drive scarcity or artificial scarcity, there's something there.
So that's one.
And then there was also what I really believed in as an artist and a creator and an entrepreneur
is about supporting the creator economy.
So that from the get go is very clear in the sandbox's vision that we want to create a
space for creators to come and be able to create own and play.
And that for me was just the kind of ethos that I was as a person.
I was the same person that started a theater.
I see it now.
I see the connection.
Yes.
So that I could pay because I was like, how can I empower actors to and enable them to
have a decent wage?
Because it broke my heart that there's so many actors and creators who had to go.
There's nothing wrong with waiting on tables.
Don't get me wrong.
There's so many people that can't pursue their real talent because they don't make a decent
wage in their real talent.
So I was always thinking, how do I create platforms?
That was what inspired me to create the first ever for-profit theater company in Singapore.
And then that was what then prompted me to, when I was running an activation group, be
able to use my ability to work in a university, to hire university students, and then get
them to be interns and then get them to be working in my activation group and then creating
a healthy ecosystem of them being able to create, find meaningful work, and then be
able to contribute to society.
So it's already doing that ecosystem without even really having a clear idea.
And then, of course, when I came into this digital space, I read the white paper of the
Sandbox and I thought they're very thoughtful in about really wanting to create an ecosystem
because a lot of folks were talking about wanting to create, but really what they're
trying to do was really to monetize and get as much money as possible into this.
Not to say it's a bad thing, but I was just saying, if we want to create a creator economy,
then there must be things that we are doing to sustain that, to encourage that, to empower.
And that was what I saw about the Sandbox, and they've consistently done that.
And so that is why when Sebastian asked me to be part of the DAO, I obviously said yes,
also because by then, we'd become one of the more prolific builders in the Sandbox
space as well.
And so I continue to want to believe in this vision.
And so that was how we've become so affiliated and interpolated with the Sandbox community.
It's just a natural affinity.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm seeing it, the create, connect, communicate, people, purpose, possibilities.
And I can see how that...
I similarly connected with the Sandbox when I saw, for me, it was more about all the different
connections that just converged.
You had your creators, your level designers, even your speculators, but your business people.
And it was just this mass convergence on the Sandbox.
And now we have the DAO, which is another convergence.
Just, boy, it's so awesome.
Exactly.
And as the saying goes, it really takes a village.
And I think you need all side and the fortitude to be able to bring all of this together,
right?
It's not easy.
And so that is also why when I see folks that are trying to do similar things that I definitely
want to lean in and support them whatever way I can, because I've also done that all
my life in real world spaces.
And now I'm beginning to bring those together, right?
So really trying to interpolate both my Web2 experience and this Web3 world together.
I think that's where Smobler sits very uniquely, really trying to converge Web2 and Web3 worlds.
Smobler.
All right.
Nova 2024.
So what was, let's fast forward now.
Thank you for detailing your background.
I think it makes one of the things that I say we, the community, was very, very articulate
in its response after the initial announcement of the DAO.
And something that you talked about in your AMAs was who is the advisory board?
Who are they?
What do they stand for?
What do they like?
And you did some introductions yourself.
So I appreciated you expounding on that.
And let's fast forward to the board.
How did it come to be?
How were you offered the opportunity to join the board and what was your motivation in
joining it?
I think the board, as you can tell, I think very diverse, right?
I can tell that part of the motivation is definitely diversity, equity, and inclusion.
I think we could see representation from the Asian community, and then you could see representation
from Inamodja.
And then there's also Matthew.
I can't pronounce his Brazilian name, but the sports athlete, I call it Matt.
So Matt is also on board.
And I think what we've been doing.
Matthew Vivian?
Exactly.
So what we've been doing is to ensure that we have diversity from different geographies,
from different races, backgrounds, gender, sexuality.
I think what we tried to really do was to bring an intersection of as much diversity
as we can in a very small group.
And to also ensure that the different verticals are at least considered, whether it's music
or Metaverse for Good, social enterprise, or sports, or art, or commerce.
And so if you looked at all the bios of every single person, the special counsel, or the
advisory board, you can tell that diversity was definitely key in the consideration of
the members.
And also it was that these individuals had to stand for something.
Like we must have already had illustrious careers from before the sandbox, and that
we have extensive amount of experience to back what we're doing.
So I do think that a significant amount of consideration and research was done before
these individuals were fielded.
So I feel incredibly humbled and honored to be on the team with all these individuals.
And what was it about the advisory board?
You mentioned the diversity part and ensuring that it was well represented.
What about the offer to join the advisory board just made it an easy yes for you or
an automatic yes?
I think it was already aligned with who I am, right?
I think so much of this was already aligned with who I am.
And plus I've already had a relationship with the sandbox, and I already know the founders,
and I'm already so integrated with the community.
So I think aside from the personal affiliation, and it was also just believing in the vision.
Again, I go back to is it going to be easy?
Is it going to be easy?
So no, but I've often always said, if it's too easy, then it's not worth doing.
Someone else can do it.
I like doing things that are challenging.
I like to be in liminal spaces where with a cusp of building something that's tough,
it's difficult, people call you crazy.
You are square feet in a round hole.
Those are exactly the kinds of spaces that I truly enjoy.
And so when I was asked by Sebastian Bourget, I obviously was an offer I could not refuse.
Plus, like I said, it was so in line with who I was.
Of you couldn't refuse.
I could not, right?
There was just no way.
And it was really allowing me to be able to be more connected with folks like you.
Everything brings me more joy than when I receive an email, a request, a tweet, a text
to say, can we speak to you about this?
Can we have you on our AME and a podcast?
To me, it's like, wow, there's an impact on what we're doing.
And so in fact, more and folks always say, oh, thank you for your time.
So I'm like, no, no, you don't understand.
Like I'm humbled that you're asking and I'm humbled that someone out there is actually
even listening and paying attention to what we're doing.
And I think we are so grateful that people are taking this so seriously.
So thank you.
I want to take this opportunity to thank all of you that's on board and listening and part
of this conversation.
Yeah.
It takes a village, like you said.
Takes a village.
Thank you.
I think as time progresses and people understand that we're all people, like the advisory board,
it's not just some friends circle club.
There's thought.
There's thought and effort put into the way this Tao has been formulated and the way that
it's being executed along a timeline and a vision.
I hear Seb frequently say he wants to be the cultural capital of the metaverse.
And I see a consistency in his efforts and now the efforts of the Tao to help bring that
about.
And yeah, I've been wanting to, especially when you popped up in those first few AMAs,
I knew I wanted to get you in as soon as I possibly could to understand this.
And so what would you say, I've read the Tao constitution and the bylaws and the articles
and memorandums.
What would you say in your words is your role on the advisory board?
To humanize it.
I always say that.
Hey, all right.
Now that is a fascinating answer.
Yeah, I always say that I'm probably like the least qualified person.
Like don't ask me about a blockchain or don't ask me about, you know, some layer one, layer
two, layer zero.
I'm always learning from the degens in my team or don't ask me about the meme coins
and other shit coins.
But I always say that if I can make, if I can understand it and I can explain it in
a way that someone else can understand it, then I think we've done our job.
I think my role is to often always be the conduit between these convoluted, new concepts
that sound very like this, you know, this, you know, behemoth and, you know, of stuff
and just be able to...
All those things that we, the buzzwords we throw out.
Yeah, just get straight to the point and what makes people tick?
What gets to people's heart?
If people understand it, they will get it, they will have buy-in.
I think when you give folks a lot of jargon and you tell them, I mean, there's some, don't
get me wrong, there are some folks that really geek out on that.
And that there is a forum for that and there is ambassadors for that and your spokespeople
for that who do exceedingly well.
I'm not that person.
I will humanize it.
I was basically just recently, I was in a Bitcoin conference and I was in a panel, Michael
Saylor was there.
Yeah, Tennessee, right?
I saw that.
Yeah, yeah.
And I was asked the same thing and I said, I humanize...
Nashville, Tennessee?
Yeah.
I said, I humanize the face of cryptocurrency.
I humanize the face of Gamepy and Web3.
It's like fundamentally, if I can speak it like it matters to somebody, I think that's
my role.
Fundamentally, if people ask me why I got into this space, it's because I've been outstayed
because I wanted to be able to democratize technology, democratize the availability of
data and to be able to allow creators to have the ability to own their own creativity, to
monetize their own creativity, to be able to put food on their table because now we're
creating jobs.
And I will tell you, recently I went through an exercise in Smobler, anecdotally.
I spoke with every single staff member in Smobler.
And I will tell you that what always moves me and chokes me to tears is when they say,
wow, we're so happy being at Smobler.
And I know that they're being genuine.
They don't have to just say this to me because I'm their father, but they're like, we're
so happy to be doing what we love.
And that makes me so happy because I know that that is a fact because some of them have
always wanted to be in gaming, have always wanted to be a creator, have always wanted
to have the flexibility, especially for working for moms.
They're literally having their interviews with me with their toddlers in their arms.
Just the ability to know that I have impacted their lives and created jobs and allowed them
to put food on their table and to be able to play the games that they create with their
kids.
Like these are the things that really inspire me as a founder.
I mean, obviously, yes, I need to still make money, be able to have the 10x, 100x ROI to
show my investors.
But fundamentally what keeps me going, go back to people, purpose possibilities is to
be able to provide for my team.
If I can't take care of my team, I can't take care of my community is the same thing.
And so that makes me super happy that the work that I do here has been able to empower
my team and my community.
So yeah, super exciting.
And what about your role and actions thus far in the advisory board has enabled you
to do those things?
It is moments like this.
To your point, I pick up an earlier point that you said that the Dow committee or board
was very well thought of because I will tell you that I didn't know a lot of folks in the
community.
It's not like we're all buddies and we all hang up together like old boys and girls club.
Some of us, yes, we do know off each other, but we actually never had the chance to be
connected.
So I was really excited to get to know Ina a little bit better.
I was really excited to know Mia a little bit better.
I was really excited to know Anthony a little bit better.
And now we're collaborating together on a music project for disability.
I got to know Matt a little bit better.
So just having the Dow actually brought many of us who already lead us in this space a
lot closer together.
So we weren't like hanging out in some country club sipping champagne.
And it was also a pun, right?
The sip is meant to be a pun on like sipping champagne.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Too shy.
We're not doing that.
Previously, I think we now are able to know each other a little bit better.
And that in itself is an opportunity to get to know folks.
And so yeah, so the role is really for me to be an ambassador, to listen, to hear all
of you.
I love it when all of you reach out to me and write to me and tweet and ask and challenge.
I really appreciate that.
And that makes me feel like I'm a useful part of the community and the Dow.
So please keep on doing that.
Love it.
And how often do you all meet as an advisory board?
To be honest, we actually don't meet that often.
But what we do have is we have a Slack channel where we're consistently and constantly chatting.
We also have a WhatsApp group where we're consistently chatting.
And we also have frequent emails with each other.
And then a serial also makes it a point to reach out to all the advisors.
And we have our Zoom meets as we do.
And we have connections.
And every time there's a new sip or there's a new...
E-line acrobatics at work right there.
E-line acrobatics.
And so we are definitely always in conversations and in communications with each other.
And today too, I think because of the diverse time zones, et cetera, a lot of the communication
is done through these mediums, whether it's through Slack or WhatsApp and email and these
virtual calls.
And without getting into the privileged conversations bit, what is it that you all communicate about?
About how do we...
Honestly, it's nothing a closed door that I can't talk about.
It really is about how do we motivate and get people to vote?
I think that comes up a lot.
How does this particular sip or initiative benefit the community?
How do we communicate that to the community a little bit better?
I think a lot of our conversations often premise on how do we do better?
I will say if I had to surmise a lot of our conversations is how do we do better?
How do we get the communication out?
How can we mobilize our community better?
How can we get people to vote?
As in real life, like in an election, we can do the panels, the forums, the television,
the debate, the song and dance.
But fundamentally, it's always about how do we get people more involved?
And what would you say you found so far to be some more effective success mechanisms
that you've discovered in your conversations?
As in the most successful initiatives to do what?
To get people to go out and vote?
But honestly, it's just consistency, consistency, consistency.
It is consistently get the word out to be tireless and to get your word out in various
modalities whether it's the media platforms, to get folks who have a huge following.
But fundamentally, it goes back to winning the hearts and minds of people.
And today we need to cut through a lot of different distractions to get to people's
hearts and minds and eventually their time with their fingers, vote with their fingers
and their wallets.
And so it is really getting to the hearts and minds of folks.
It's fundamentally that.
And have you, and I asked this with all sensitivity, have you seen some of the sentiments that
are, I'm sure you saw in the beginning, the sentiments that were immediately expressed
following the announcement of the Dao?
Have you seen how that sentiment has been trending?
What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah.
I think as of all things, you know, like I said, I've never been one to fade away if
there is a challenge.
In fact, I think that-
Let me just tell you how much I appreciate that, by the way, because that is, that is
excellent.
That is an excellent quality is that initial intensity is something I think anyone in the
San Fam could have anticipated that.
And then the continued presence, I thought really, really did was very productive.
I'm sorry I interrupted you.
Continue.
Not at all, not at all.
But that is, that is exactly what it is.
Starting anything's difficult.
I've often always, you know, anything that I did, right, like I said, not just about
the Dao, like I was the first person to speak on the LGBTQIA rights in Singapore, like very
open about it, right?
Always really open about supporting creators.
I mean, my entire track record in history can back me up on that, right?
Even before I was the founder of Swobod, like I've had a whole track record of doing that
speaking out for women and, you know, I was even nominated for public office.
So I think you were, you were nominated for parliament, was it?
Yeah, yeah.
I did my homework.
Yeah, so they did.
Yeah.
And I was, you know, she felt listed to, you know, be the women's wing, I mean, back to
a national day in Singapore, but just having these, just never be afraid to speak my truth
or the truth of the community.
I think authenticity is something that we really cherish and relish today, but I was
already speaking my truth way back when, when it was not comfortable or not pleasant or,
or frowned upon.
When it had some very real world consequences, and maybe you weren't in the position that
you are now to withstand that sort of.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And actually, and this is where I'll give a shout out, you know, Shane, thank you for
saying that, like even in my earliest book that was published in 2014 over 10 years
ago, where I documented some of my trials and tribulations being a really young creator,
being female and Asian and a very young creator in a fairly conservative part of the world.
I mean, I documented those challenges and I often always say, like, you know, to never
be afraid of them.
I mean, that's exactly when you grow.
And I actually documented all of this with my challenges of censorship, my challenges
with, you know, powers that be, with institutions.
But those have always, I've always prevailed because I think the key is persistence, consistency
and authenticity, because people will believe you.
They may not agree with you, but I think an exercise in being able to debate and exercise
in being able to listen really forces you to become clearer in your thought as well.
So for me, that in itself, this in itself, what we're doing is always an act of clarification,
clarity and getting better in what we're doing.
So whenever there is dissension, it also means that guess what?
People care.
It's when they don't care.
They don't talk about it.
They're apathetic.
They, you know, switch off.
That's when I think we have the bigger problem.
When people lean in, they comment, they critique, they picket fence.
It means it matters.
That's power.
And so, you know, I would take on these challenges any day compared to somebody who's like, I
don't care.
You know?
Yeah.
So, so I will say, I always appreciate any sort of dissension, disagreement, because
it means people care and they, and everyone is important.
And they all have different histories, different baggage, different points of view, different
interpolations of the world.
And so it's really important.
We, we listen.
Yeah, that's what inspired podcast number one with Hottel Hill and Andy Ritchie.
And the podcast that started all this off was I knew that there was an undercurrent
happening during these AMAs, because I could hear it.
I mean, I've been a gamer and a player and an avatar and we all talk to each other, right?
That we're all connected in that way.
And I really wanted to hear from some of the people who I knew they weren't exactly speaking
up.
And that's concerning because their, their voices that we want to listen to and, and
Hottel, Hottel Hill and Andy was the start of it.
It didn't stop there.
Crafter and, and Joseph and, you know, I'll get Touche on and all sorts of, of voices
that are just, we, I want to keep them in the conversation because to not do that, I
mean, what's the alternative?
They leave or they fight and then there's negativity in this.
It doesn't need to be that way.
It doesn't.
We have differences.
Sure.
Let's just, let's talk it out because we're a community.
We're a Sam fam.
So anyways, thank you for attending my Ted talk.
So Women on Top, the art of smashing stereotypes and breaking all the rules.
Is that the one?
Yeah, that was my first book was published by Marshall Cavendish.
It's one of Singapore's national publishers or top publishers.
And like I said, my, I'm really thankful that my books are published by the straights times
press on national publisher, as well as Marshall Cavendish.
And so, yeah, I had the opportunity to write my autobiography at a really fairly early
age and I can't wait to see what my next 20 years would be.
I'm pretty sure I'll have more stories.
Oh, and yeah, I'm onto my sixth book now.
So exciting.
Yeah.
M, M slash other from December, 2022.
Oh, yeah, mother women of Hawaii.
Hawaii.
Yeah.
About that.
So mother actually won an award.
And that's really close to my heart too, because it really talks about alternative modalities
of motherhood and parenthood.
So the mothers that I feature are not just biological women, but also transgender dads,
LGBTQIA mom and dads, foster mom, foster dads, migrant moms, rape survivor moms, terminally
ill moms, and really just wanted to shed light.
Again, I often always want to use whatever position I have to shed light on conversations
that people don't typically hear about.
Like I said, the danger is not when people are speaking up and having disagreement.
The danger is when we don't hear them, we don't see them, we're silent.
So I feel like part of my joy and role in this world is to be a light, a ladder and
a lamp to be able to shed light, empower, elevate conversations of folks who typically
don't get a chance to be heard.
And so that was really...
Yeah.
It seemed like that's exactly what you did in collection of 20 interviews.
Yeah.
I'm about that.
Thank you.
And I can appreciate that because I myself have books on, but nothing of this magnitude.
Although it's anyone who is a prospective author out there.
So again, she and I, both authors, the hardest thing, and in my opinion, the hardest thing
about writing a book is getting to the end of writing it.
The publishing aspect is so accessible.
It's like creating a Facebook account on Amazon and you can just get your book out there.
It is very accessible now, whereas I imagine back in 2014 when you did your first one,
maybe there was a little more gatekeeping that you had to get through.
In fact, like I said, and you're absolutely right.
I mean, therefore I said, I'm very thankful that I have the blessing of institutionalized
publishing.
There's a national press that publishes my books, but yes, not many people have the ability
to say I'm published by XYZ.
But today to your point, yes, I think publishing has become so much more accessible just as
gaming has been.
I think so many of the tools that we take for granted today, if you just look back just
20 years or just 10 years ago, none of these tools were as accessible as they are today.
But yeah, if you are a prospective author, just get the book finished.
Just get to the end and the rest of it will lay itself out for you.
I promise you.
She and I have written multiple books and published them.
I created my own publishing company to publish my own books.
So that's...
So I took the, how do I publish this?
And I did the same thing with my music, is I just researched how to be my own publisher
and get it on iTunes and that there is a way.
I promise you.
And we both are living proof of it.
I agree.
Me, the more bootstrapper and you, the more illustrious, let's call it.
It takes all kinds, as you can tell, my cat is sort of dominating.
First persistent kitty acrobatics going on.
Oh, persistent.
She's the cat of the show.
Yeah.
Back to the Tao, did you have any input into the constitution or the incorporation documents?
No, that I will say I did not.
So I think what we did have is we had a chance to produce it early on, but I did not actually
contribute to the formulation of the document.
Do you recall if anyone else on the advisory board did?
Not to the best of my knowledge, but it could be a lack of awareness and knowledge on my
part.
But I myself can say that I did not have a preview.
I was not privy to the formulation of the constitution.
Was there any sort of discussion about it before it went live on May 28th?
I think by and large, the community or at least the advisory board were pretty much
quite in sync with what was proposed.
I think what I think we were more excited about the possibilities of launching the Tao.
So we were fairly unanimous in our decision to go ahead with what was proposed.
Okay, got it.
Got it.
It looks like you're taking notes live as we're going, it's wonderful.
You're just multitasking, you're podcasting, you're taking notes, you're listening.
I tell you what, it's more for my sanity than it is just for, you know, I like to keep track
because these things just are networks.
And Yatsu says all the time, network effects, you know, and network effects.
But these things all connect together and it's really interesting to piece together.
Like, oh, so that's why later on you said this, it connects straight to that.
Now I get it.
It's like constellations forming.
It's like the composability, absolutely.
It's just knowledge forming on knowledge.
And I remember back in the day, you know, we had to, my dad who spent tons of money
buying an encyclopedia.
And if you had an encyclopedia, you were like pedigree.
But today it's like, you know, we have all these free resources and composability and
just we just build on each other's networks and knowledge formation.
Absolutely.
Do you meet separate?
You kind of answered this a little bit, but I wanted to ask it more outright.
Do you meet separate from the special council or is there a combined meeting of any kind?
For now what we do is we have our own conversations with the head of DAO is Cyril and then we
meet with Cyril and then we have a lot of our conversations, like I said, through Slack
and through the WhatsApp channels.
We I don't think to the best of my recollection, we have not had one big meeting together of
all the council members and all the advisory members.
I think really it's more the fact that we are all because one of the things about having
such diverse representation is also that we're going to be having very different time zones
and just being able to be all in the same room could be difficult.
But I would imagine whenever there's an opportunity to, I would say sure.
I'm sure we'll all relish the opportunity to be together.
Yeah.
So do each of you on the advisory board, do you have different purposes that you've
fulfilled or is it not quite laid out in that cemented fashion?
I think it's just like how, you know, like I imagine a parliament is sort of made up
that each person represents a certain constituency, but we don't just speak up for that.
Right.
Like I think I would imagine I was called upon because of a lot of my work, dealing
with social good and education and supporting diverse voices, right.
Often always talking about the message of this for good and providing opportunity and
equity as a social equity advocate and artist.
Imagine like that is my one great value add and trump card.
But then there are folks like Matt, which is more on athleticism and sports and a sporting
arena and speaking up for a lot of time and, you know, in a different part of the world.
And then you have Ina and you have Anthony that speaks to music and you have Nia who
really is very much a degen and, you know, a technologist.
And so like, Nia Bao.
Yeah, how about that?
She's the one I haven't been able to get to yet and see a lot of, but I do intend to.
Yeah.
So I think a lot of us have very core strengths, but we don't just have to represent that because
I also think that we are all such diverse individuals with, you know, multiple roles
and intersectionalities and strengths and, you know, experiences.
So when we show up, we show up as us and bringing all our experiences together.
But yet, yes, I think we're definitely selected for to be representative of the verticals
that we tend to be associated with.
But we don't just have to speak up for that.
So it's not like we have to respond on sport and only the red, I would have to respond
on education and the arts and social equity.
So we are all just called on, you know, whenever the opportunity arises and we'll volunteer
all time and give of our time and resources very willingly.
Yeah.
And so I recently watched a video, I think it was a TEDx talk with Zath.
So that was fascinating to listen to her speak.
And I say her without knowing all the pronouns.
So if you have any corrections, I would...
Yeah.
She is probably LGBTQIA, but she is she her.
And I actually have quite a few TEDx talks and TEDx talks as well, TEDx talks, but then
they are all closed door TEDx talks.
And so I don't know if they're online.
But yeah, I'm so glad that you really do your research and all of the advisors and...
Yeah, you let them know that I intend to reach out to every single one of them.
I already reached out to Ina and congratulations, by the way, she just sung at the Olympics.
I just saw.
So that was awesome.
And she not long ago sung at the United Nations like she is.
Wow.
Well, quite the musician and the advocate for deforestation.
It was fascinating to watch some of her content and the things that she's doing with the green.
They call it the green wall, I think.
Yeah.
So you let them know I'm going to reach out to every single one of them and see invite
them on.
I will immediately put that in our Slack group and I will.
I would love to get to know each of them and hear their perspective.
And yeah, that's awesome.
What would you say that you would want to achieve before the reelections are going to
happen in December of next year?
Thank you for asking that.
I would say I would love to be able to have the opportunity to connect with as many committee
members as much as possible, such as yourself.
I would like to have the ability to listen to all your concerns, considerations.
I would love to be able to understand your challenges, understand what else we can do
better.
I think aside from, you know, seeing things that went well and good, everyone loves to
hear that, right?
We're all human.
I think it's really important to want to listen to the things that people aren't happy about.
The things that we can do better in.
I will appreciate if more and more folks reach out to me.
I'm less active on Twitter or X than I am in LinkedIn, but I'm really public.
If you Google me, Loretta Chan, I think or email Loretta at Smoglessstudios.com.
I'm really very accessible.
I try to make myself as accessible as possible.
There are just some platforms that I'm more active on.
I was very, very pleasantly, I was very happy to see how easy it was to get to reach you
and to talk with you and for us to set this up.
There was very little friction at all and I really appreciated that.
Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it doesn't matter how busy we are, right?
I often joke and say, how do you get something done?
Give it to a busy person, right?
I think if it matters, we are going to want to get it done.
When I commit to this role, I really mean it like I want to be able to listen to the
community.
Leadership is really about in the service of others.
That really is a joy to be able to serve and to be able to use whatever platforms that
we have to be able to listen to every single person.
We know that that's not possible, but we want to be there, at least for me, I want to be
there as much as possible.
My aim would be to be able to touch and have the ability to connect with as many of our
SanFam with or without in or out of SanFam, but to be able to connect with our community
to the best of my ability.
And is there anything-
Because I rely on you to keep reaching out and I'll do my best to keep-
Yeah, no, I'm in it.
I am committed.
I love what we're doing.
I love the vision.
I am seeing the difficulties though.
I am seeing that tension play out firsthand as a SIP author myself, but just trying to
help Pepe from SanRush, Magic Palette, the first community SIP, that forum was difficult.
At the same time, I had a podcast with Mocha Sien, which is the Chinese community for the
Mochaverse, which was fortuitous because they had access to a large land ownership network
of people.
So I said, hey, how do we reach out to them and submit Pepe's SIP for consideration?
And that was one of the things that helped propel that into 30 million.
I wouldn't put that on my, as an I did that, but the community, Pepe reached out to Mocha
Sien, Mocha Sien reached out to their people and then they said, hey, this is a great thing.
Let's vote for it.
And that moved it across that 25 to 30 million that we needed in the last 48 hours.
It was real close there.
That's really amazing.
And no, Lentor, I mean, Sean, I think that Shane-
Yes, Shane, please.
So that also really brings me to one of the things that that's the reason why we think
it's so important to have a community because I come from a really small country.
Again, go back to my happy national day, Singapore, we come from a really small country.
And fun fact, we have about 5.6, 5.7 million people in Singapore, which is about approximately
the number of people that have the number of sandbox holders and sandbox wallet users.
So we have like about 5.6 million in the sandbox and 5.6 million in Singapore.
It is small compared to the rest of the world.
We are a very small country.
And so I think one of the things is getting our voices heard out there.
And I think that is also why I always relish the opportunity to make connections.
And honestly, even though I seem very gregarious and extroverted and I'm very chatty, honestly,
I'm very private in the sense that I'm not private with what I think.
I'm very public about it.
I'm just not one of those that is constantly on Instagram, constantly on Twitter, constantly
on LinkedIn.
Because to be quite honest, I am really busy with my day to day.
It's hard for me too.
And also because I think it's a function of age because I'm not a GenXer.
I didn't grow up with all these devices.
So just there are some folks who are constantly tweeting.
Like Sebastian, I always joke, he can run a company and be able to be tweeting all day.
I think it's also one, the intention and ability, but also I'm a GenXer.
So just to get my peers too, we're not going to be consistently on the social media platforms.
Like I told you, I really am a broadcast media person.
I come from TV and radio and publishing.
That is where I'm most comfortable.
But yet I know the media landscape is changing.
So part of your previous question too that I also want to acknowledge too is that I may
not be the most prolific on social media and I'm not going to be the most active poster
on X, but doesn't mean I don't care.
In fact, I truly care when anyone reaches out, I will definitely respond to the best
of my abilities.
I think this is evidence enough to be honest.
A total stranger reached out and said, hey, what do you think about this?
And you're like, heck yeah, let's do it.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my gosh, that's so fabulous.
So would you say that there is anything that at the end of your time, whether you're re-elected,
you seek reelection or not, would you say there's something at the end of that where
you'd say, yeah, I reached the right number of people or we communicated the right number
of things?
Is there any measurement of that or is it just, let's just be consistent until when
it happens?
I will say, you know, it's still very early days.
I think, you know, we can only have comparisons or we can only know how well we've done if
we have enough material to compare against.
I think what we need now is consistency, persistence, fortitude to be able to chart a course, to
get more and more people involved, to get more people to lean in.
And as much as I think the more participation, interest, dissension, disagreement, the more
active engagement we see, I would say like that should be our core and our focus and
our drive.
I think it'd be too early to start saying, oh, we did better than, you know, July.
Of course, I mean, we can say, okay, there's more conversations in May because we just
launched and there's more conversations maybe in doing the SIP or, you know, maybe things
slowed down during New Year's Eve.
I mean, sure, right, there'll be these metrics for us to then gauge when is a good time to
launch conversations.
I think those kinds of analysis is always useful, but I think to not be too bogged
down by these smaller metrics, especially for now when we're building up a movement,
right?
I think it's important for now to not lose the forest for the tree.
These markers of success are important.
It allows us to sort of chart our way, you know, looking back at the bird trumps and
seeing how far we've come.
But because we're so early, I think it's really important to look forward.
Of course, we need to look back and just check our bearings, right?
Even though there are challenges, I think it's really important to push forth, especially
if we're doing something difficult, especially if you're doing something that is first and
it's challenging and it's new.
It's really important to just keep going.
Yeah.
And what would you say is something that the community can do to help either involve the
advisory board more?
Is there something that we can do to enable more participation?
Is there something we're not doing?
What would you say?
You know, I think you folks are doing exactly the right thing.
Like even just you, you know, reaching out and just saying, hey, we want to have you
in AMA or hey, we want to be able to do this with you and do that or reaching out to an
advisory board and being very proactive in connecting.
I will say like that is key because, you know, if you folks don't reach out to us, I mean,
we're really just conduits and just a representation, right?
So please use us as much as possible to speak up, to be a touch point, to be of service
to you.
So I will say that really is my one ask for all of you to connect and reach out and I'll
make myself as accessible and as available to listen, to empathize, to learn.
I think that's really crucial as well.
And so, yeah, all I ask is for the community to consistently reach out.
That would be like my one ask.
And folks like you who are amazing working, taking time off, you know, from your already
very busy work and the military as I learned and to do this, you know, so kudos to you.
I appreciate it.
Absolutely.
I appreciate that.
The one thing that I've been very eager to know is I understand after reading the bylaws
and the Constitution, I understand where the rubber meets the road of the special
counsel, like where they vote on things, they vote for the legality, redundancy, the morality
of SIPs that cross their path.
The more nebulous thing, the less clear thing was how the advisory board contributes to
the day to day of the Dow.
And I think things like this where we can reach out and have these conversations and
it's certain to sound like maybe a good place, a good use of your time.
And I say it that way because I noticed in the Constitution that you all aren't taking
a salary for this.
You're doing this of your own free will and volition and volunteer ship.
And thank you, first of all, for that, by the way, your considerable expertise, as well
as the rest of the advisory board, which I will find a way to get you on here.
But I want to be I want to be cognizant of the way I asked this, which is when is too
much when is it too much demanding from a volunteer role?
Because if you say connect with me, you've got thousands of fans and fam who could just
you know, when is it too much or what is that that ideal state?
I think, you know, it really it really differs from person to person.
I happen to have a really wide bandwidth.
I think every individual I can't speak for the other advisors of my on my team.
Everyone is incredibly busy and illustrious.
As you said, you know, is doing everything from singing the Paris Olympics to all of
this is caught up in.
We have families, we have businesses to run, we have communities, we also serve aside from
the San Fernando.
So every advisor is different.
For me, I don't think I have reached breaking point.
I happen to have like I said, my my cup is is always running over but never full.
It's just continuously replenishes itself and it's you know, it's full and it kind
of overflows and then it's room for more.
You know, I kind of see that is my that is probably my visual metaphor for myself.
You know, it's always full and overflowing and then it's filling up some more.
But also I think for me personally, everything and everything that I hear and listen fuels
me in my own work, my own growth, my own learning as well.
I don't see it as a chore.
I don't see it as you know, painful.
It really is my perspective on life as well.
So I don't quite know how to answer that question.
That's okay.
But yeah, I will say that personally for me, I don't get innovative.
In fact, I get energized the more challenged and pushed and questioned.
It makes me feel like me too.
Listen, you know, they care.
They push your buttons and they reach out to you.
It's because they care.
Yeah.
They they care to engage that.
That to me is one of the best lessons I learned when I co-founded my own player run organization.
I mentioned the Guinness World Record.
So I co-founded a player organization for a game called The Planet Side 2.
And it acted as like a cross between, if you're familiar with the NFL and ESPN.
So we organized player tournaments and then we broadcasted that with color commentators.
So it was like we were the NFL and we were the ESPN that covered the matches.
And that was our our player led organization.
And we were hosting and organizing matches with 400 players every single week.
It was just week after week and we ended up doing like 50 or 70 of them.
I can't remember now.
It's been that many.
And one day someone's like, hey, what's the Guinness World Record for the most players
in an in an online first person shooter match?
We looked it up and it was only 900.
And we rarely break that as a game all the time.
So we got with the game developers at that game.
And not long after that, we were able to organize a Guinness World Record breaking match, which
earned us the that earned us that.
So we broke it with like a thousand and one hundred players and we still hold the record.
So wow, wow, wow.
Congratulations.
Let's see if Smobler can try and beat that record.
Do it.
I welcome it.
I want it was I brought that up to say that I was what was known as the I was head of
like the North American, the Americas division.
So we had like a European person.
And so I would field all of the complaints.
I would do all of the if if there were investigations that happened because of player conduct, I
would I would conduct that for the North American and the South American region.
And that frequently brought me into contact with, you know, a lot of people who had criticisms
and all that sort of stuff.
And I learned there that the worst thing is the silence.
Exactly.
If like the Reddit threads, all the Reddit flames, I welcomed it.
I loved it.
They just give me more because all that's doing is helping.
It's educating.
I can listen and I can embody that and I can understand even if it's like full of distracting
languages and insults and all that sort of stuff.
That's fine.
What matters is is what is the essence of the of the dispute and then work through that.
And boy, that was a that was a life altering lesson for me and people who did not have
to care.
And they did.
Yeah, I feel like I should interview you for for my own podcast.
But yeah, I yeah.
Well, thank you.
So the best ways I think I heard to get in touch with you is Twitter, but not you're
not on there nearly as much as you are LinkedIn.
Yeah, I am a lot of LinkedIn also, because a lot of my the work that I do is still web
to web 2.5.
Definitely my team, I have like DJs and a team that are all consistently on Twitter,
like crypto overlord.
A big shout out to him.
He runs our web three community.
I didn't know that.
Okay.
Yeah.
But definitely I am Laurita Chen on every single media platform, LOR, TTH and CHE.
And so please reach out to me whether it's email, Twitter, Telegram, Instagram.
I think the only platform that I don't have right now is TikTok.
So maybe I should venture, tread into those waters at some point.
If you're ready for it to consume your life of funny videos and cat videos and all sorts
of stuff.
I live with 25 cats.
I have a ton of meme videos all in my all in my bedroom.
So yeah.
So that will move us out of the prepared discussion questions.
Let's move into that open topic you said you wanted to talk about.
We touched on it briefly.
Singapore National Independence Day is today, August 9th, 1965 is when that happened.
Yeah.
That's right.
And so yeah, big shout out to all my friends and family in Singapore.
Majulah Singapura.
You know, like I said, you can take the girl out of Singapore, but you can't take Singapore
with a girl.
I'm always very thankful for the opportunities that I have in Singapore.
But also, like I said, I think I always understand why it's so important to always reach beyond
and out because Singapore is a very, very small country.
I think many people may or may not know that Singapore, you know, currently has, you know,
it's a very small country, like I said, about, you know, 5.67 million people, like about
the same as the sandbox.
And yet we have GDP per capita.
That is like the United States of America.
Some, in some days it's way more.
And so we have-
Wow, very industrious.
We have become a first world country in four decades, which really is a feat.
And I think this is something that is often, you know, talked about in popular media.
And so I think on our national day, I just really want to give a shout out to, you know,
my team in Singapore, my friends and family, but I think it has given me and imbued in me
a spirit of the can do, right?
The ability to, when we set out to hit something, we get it done because not many people know
but Singapore became independent today's in 1965, 59 years ago.
And we, we, we did not, we were not, we didn't actively gain our independence.
We were orphaned.
I think that's a story that is not often told, that we were actually orphaned and left our
own devices because we were ejected from the Malaya Federation.
And so we have turned our biggest crisis into opportunity.
We have turned our biggest threat impediment about being orphaned in, you know, from our
hinterland because we were cut off from all natural resources and we didn't even have
water.
Singapore is an island with no, you know, potable water back then 59 years ago.
And so when we were cut off, I think it's a story that I often love to tell that I think
that's also why I'm proud Singapore in the sense that I will always have this sense of
grit and tenacity and, you know, overcoming all odds.
And I think that's a really wonderful way to celebrate my heritage and my culture on
our 59th birthday.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, right.
But bordering Malaysia and also right next to Indonesia.
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So I do.
I do really want to visit Singapore one day.
I won't be able to make it to Nova 2024, but I will.
I will endeavor to do that.
And once I do, I'm going to definitely go look up a smuggler.
Are you all in in Singapore?
Yes.
So I live in Hawaii, but smuggler is hit quartered in Singapore and now we have expanded and
we have representation in Brazil.
We have representation in the United States, in Hawaii, in New York, in California, in
Texas.
And also growing our presence in Vietnam, in the Philippines.
So you know, it's a really exciting time to be building and we want to keep on building
with all the support.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so yeah, when you come to Singapore, you have to let me know and I'll look you up there.
If I'm there, I'll host you.
Otherwise, I'll get my team to take you out to eat great hawker food.
Like if you watch Crazy Rich Asians, we're going to take you to like the hawker center.
I would love that.
I would appreciate that.
That'd be special.
So we thank you.
Is there anything that you wanted to cover?
Anything near and dear to your heart that we didn't talk about?
Well, no, I mean, like I said, this is one of the longest podcasts I've been on.
I just hope that your community is still listening in.
But if there's anything they are.
Wow.
I bet we've been staying steady the whole time.
Wow.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Big shout out to all of you.
Hugs and kisses.
Hug hug.
So if anything, Nova, it's going to be super exciting.
Please join us September 17th, 6 to 9 p.m.
It'll be at 11.
We have Champ Medici with us.
We have the sandbox with us, Vesson Bourget, I believe we have.
We have a lot of great announcements that we'll be making.
Something else to look forward to is also the launch of our own IP aquarium.
It's going to be the first cross-chain, cross-platform game IP enabled by our own DAP.
So you'll be hearing a lot more about that on Twitter and X in the days and weeks to
come.
It'll be an Ordinals inscription.
We are also going to be in October.
You'll be hearing that quite a bit too.
We'll be launching the world's first legal tender coin with NFT with the Kingdom of Bhutan.
So we will hear about that.
Yeah, I noticed you were a consultant to the Kingdom of Bhutan.
That's cool.
One of my books has a setting.
They go to Bhutan for an event there, one of my fiction novels at least.
Wow.
So I did quite a bit of research on it and then Google pictures and all that.
Yeah, Bhutan of stuff and Bhutan.
Bhutan is my third home, Singapore, Hawaii and Bhutan.
And so please listen out for that.
There's going to be a huge forum in Bhutan, Bhutan Innovation Forum.
And we're very excited to be collaborating with the sovereign wealth fund of Bhutan together
at the Simple Mint to create a first ever commemorative...
They're active investments in that.
They're very active.
Very.
Legal tender coin with NFT.
So we're working on that as well.
That's awesome to hear.
Super exciting stuff.
Non-stop working at Smogler working around the clock to build wealth together as you can
see in my background.
Build worlds together.
That's right.
And visit their battleground.
They just released that in Sandbox Map.
Have fun.
Yes, exactly.
Cool.
Yes.
All right.
So we'll transition now toward the outro for the future episodes right now.
The only thing I have on the docket for Monday, I'm going to be interviewing one of the active
SIP holders.
That's going to be Hermit Craft Studios.
Oh, the SIP.
Yeah.
So I reached out to...
The SIP.
Right.
So I reached out to them and said, hey, can we talk about the SIP?
Right now it's not trending positively.
So we want to turn that around in the voting.
And one of the things that I know that I hear is, what are we really getting out of it?
And why should we spend that money?
So I'm really looking forward to that conversation on Monday with Hermit Crab to articulate how
important this is to the community and why this is a worthy effort for the funds.
And then after that, I'll be doing some rehashes with Pepe where we're going to showcase Magic
Palette because it's ready.
So we're going to...
Ready?
I've never used it before, so I'm a complete amateur at it, but I'm going to create something
with him in real time and we're just going to see how it works.
Know what I mean?
But I have so many other episodes.
Oh my gosh.
There's so many other.
That's 28.
And that's not even the interviews that I want to do with all the advisory boards.
So oh man, I tell you, they opened the floodgates when they brought that DAO on board.
It's so fascinating.
It's so enabling of all the different hopes, dreams, wants, and desires of people who have
where it be open campus, new campus, the smobler or a sandbox academy in the Philippines, which
I think is phenomenal idea, by the way.
And so I want to have conversations with these people.
We'll learn their background, what it is that fuels them and what is they want to do with
the SIFs that they propose.
So I myself have some, I'll be interviewing myself sometimes.
We'll see.
I shouldn't interview you.
You'd be such a great interviewee.
You have such diverse experiences too.
Oh, you're too kind.
And I really appreciate having you.
Well, let's do a special podcast.
We'll be turning the tables and it's going to be your show, but then I will interview
you.
That would be super exciting.
I think that would be fascinating.
So that's what's up and coming.
We have a lot, a lot of episodes that there's so many people, so many stories I want to
hear and learn because as Loretta and I were mentioning today, the conversations need to
be happening.
And one of the biggest things that I see in this community right now in San Fam is that
the conversations are not happening to the degree that I would hope they would.
And in its absence, all of this, let's call it negativity.
I don't want to call it that, but skepticism is growing out of the absence of the conversations
that Loretta and I are having.
And please reach out to Loretta.
As you heard, not my words, she wants to hear and listen.
And the advisory board too, to the extent that they can with their own availability.
So boy, I'm excited for this.
This is awesome.
Thank you for your time, Shay.
Like I said, I'm always very thankful.
So thank you for taking time out of your time.
You're very busy schedule to do this.
I truly appreciate it.
Really.
Yeah, likewise.
And some something to advertise for you as well.
Oh, this broke itself.
Here we go.
Update.
So some sandbox spaces is a very, very new episode slide.
And for some reason, it's not popping up.
Give me a second.
Let's do this and then do.
All the perils of doing a live show.
I know I've been in broadcast media all my life and I was just always fascinated that,
you know, folks, not all these people.
Works really well.
So some sandbox spaces.
So people like Loretta yourself, if you're listening from the advisory board or anyone
else who wants to get connected, here's the place where people are currently organizing
around UGH United Grand Halls, also known as Mochaverse Hall, Monday evening at 9 p.m.
EST, 3 a.m. CST, unfortunately, and then 10 a.m. Korean Standard Time.
About that pulls on the block every Saturday, every Saturday morning.
Coffee with Captain sometimes talk about sandbox, although mostly they're eight chain stuff.
Whale Members is the newest one I just got in touch with, which I'm trying to lock down
a podcast with them.
One of the largest landowners in sandbox is the whale family.
So they have a podcast, not a podcast, a Twitter space every Tuesday.
They will talk about sandbox if you show up to talk about it.
Like I did this past week with them on Tuesday.
Just want to say hello, say hello from the sandbox and that, you know, one day we want
to we want to seek their their consideration for for quorum.
And then Sandfam Cafe has been going on one month or once a month.
They do a episode specific to the sandbox.
And sometimes it'll be like developers, sometimes it'll be studios and artists and all different
stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up reaching out to you, Loretta, one time to to be on
the cafe.
Maybe I'll send a tweet over at Pickaxe Master as a little hint, hint, nudge, nudge.
But yeah, happy to.
Like I said, I always love people out there, you know, even better when you meet them in
real life.
It's like, you know, you hear them, you know them, you have these virtual connections and
these virtual connections are sometimes so real.
And I've had this conversation with podcasts as well.
Who's to say these virtual connections are not real, like the friends that they can actually
make in your game, fi and your virtual worlds and your Twitter.
And they are so real.
And then when you actually meet them in person, it's like, you know, they certainly feel that
way.
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And then we come to and then Discord, the Discord has conversation.
But as you can tell, we're kind of spread out.
So that's where in the in the gaps of these conversations, you bruise the the the unfortunate
ambiguity that we're trying to clear up with conversations like these.
So please reach out to me.
Please reach out to Loretta.
Don't.
We want to be a San Fam and we want San Fam to succeed.
So with that.
Loretta, do you have anyone on Twitch that you want to raid?
I normally raid someone to give them the the viewership.
I don't see anyone from sandbox on right now.
I do see some some nonprofits on though, but is there anyone that comes to mind for you?
No.
Who's who's out there right now that we can read?
I'm looking at my people and I see stack up, which is a a veterans suicide awareness nonprofit.
So they're one of my go tos.
And that's all I can see right now.
If no one's jumping out at you, then I might hit them as the raid and then we can we can
call it a day.
Yes, I leave that to you.
OK.
Yeah, you could be my reader.
All right, so we're start the raid.
Loretta, thank you so much for your time.
It was such a pleasure speaking with you.
Thank you so much.
This is one of the longest podcasts.
Like I said, I thank you all for your time.
I thank you for your effort, your energy and organizing this and reaching out.
And I really hope that more San Fam and community will continue to reach out as well.
And I already enjoy being on your show.
And next time I will love to interview you.
Well, I would be very grateful for that.
Thank you.
Have a great day.
And go San Fam.
Go San Fam, Majla, Singapore.
Happy birthday, Singapore.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.