All right, everybody Sandal podcast episode nine.
I have with me today Arthmore.
Am I pronouncing that correctly?
Yeah, I'm not sure myself how you're supposed to pronounce it.
So you can call me Brian if that's what Brian.
Sure, Brian.
Well, I have with me today Brian, also known as Arthmore.
So if you're on the Dow forums, you'll see him under that name with the picture of the
guy in the hat and the suit and apple over his face, which I'm love.
I want to ask you about when we get to the introductions.
But today we're going to be talking about the his SIP that is currently in the Dow forums
under SIP draft.
So as you can see in my thumbnail over here to the right under proposal SIP draft, you'll
see mandate for Dow collection management.
What's the SIP we'll be talking about today, which is currently going under the 14 day
community comment period before it goes to vote for 14 days.
And yeah, welcome to the scope of the talk.
Scope of the talk today is a meet and greet and it's about the SIP draft.
So those are the two things that we're going to hit today.
Who is the author and what is the SIP about?
Introductions.
My name is Lancer.
I am a the podcast host for Sandow podcast.
I've been an avatar landowner and in the in sandbox since mid season one and program management
background contract negotiation background.
I got a question yesterday from who was it that sent me that question yesterday?
Why am I part of the sandbox team?
I am not.
I'm an independent person.
I do this because I love the sandbox.
The sandbox I believe in the Dow's vision and I want to help make it successful as a
sand fan member.
So that's me and Brian, please introduce.
Myself.
Yeah, so there's a bit of a bio of mine in the SIP, but it's quite long, but to be short,
I've been involved in anything related to blockchain and art for the past seven or eight
years now, pretty much as soon as I graduated from high school, worked a bit at Sotheby's.
I was in charge of NFTs there once I was done with my master degree in art business.
Also a bunch of black certification in collection management and other related degrees.
And since I've left Sotheby's last September, I sort of went back to what I was doing before
that, which is organizing exhibition myself.
And that's my mom behind.
Cool.
Merci.
C'est gentil.
Oui, tu peux partir s'il te plait?
Sorry for that.
That's okay.
I can blur that out on video if you prefer her not to be on video.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, no problem.
Yeah, and so I've been doing this and that, doing exhibition in fairs and work to event
and art fairs, representing artists.
And I also have a startup called Artcrush and we're doing a digital exhibition on public
display exhibition on billboard across the world in 27 or so countries for the last two
years.
Okay, got it.
And so I assume you're from France?
Yeah, yeah.
As the accent can give it away.
Yeah, well, definitely speaking French gave it away.
Cool.
And so you've been in the Web 3 blockchain industry since high school?
Yeah, since 2016, 17, pretty much.
I mean, it was specifically the blockchain and art industry, which was anything about
the blockchain application for trustability, provenance, research, and the authentication
of artwork.
Before NFT existed, there was already a bunch of people that were interested about how to
apply a blockchain system to the art world.
And we bunch of startup company existed in that regard.
To name a few, there was Codex Protocol, MasterNAS, Verisart, a bunch of those not exist anymore.
And yeah, but then it was all about, you know, sort of providing a solution to counterfeiters
and to apply blockchain system to real world assets, specifically artwork.
Got it.
Okay.
So you sound like you do have quite an expertise in this realm.
Cool.
I definitely we're not we're not many to get interested by that topic back there.
We were perhaps a dozen in the world, if I remember, like Jason Bailey, George Bach,
Kevin Abosh, Art Nome.
You know, there's also Benoit Couty and a bunch of people like that.
But it was a very small circle of scholars and research.
I was interested by that really.
Yeah, I remember, for example, when SuperR launched and stuff like that, there was really
a moment where we see a soul shift to digital.
But before that, it was really about physical art.
Gotcha.
Thank you.
Appreciate learning about you.
So disclaimer, Brian and I do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.
We are not your legal or financial advisors and nothing we say to be taken as legal and
financial advice.
The Dow score barred.
So we currently have one sip in draft on the forums.
This one we're talking about today, the mandate for Dow collection, talking about the NFT
collection that Brian here, otherwise known as Arthmoret, is currently under community
review.
We have eight sips closed in total.
Seven of them were approved.
The latest being sip seven being the saking budget and one of them not being approved,
which was sip eight, which was the Parasiti jam.
From France, Arthmoret from France.
So the reason why that one didn't pass is because it didn't reach quorum.
So it had an overwhelming yes vote.
It just didn't reach that 30 million quorum.
It only reached about 60% or 16 million.
One was archived.
So the creator first, that was, I believe, podcast three or four with Karel.
That one was archived with no vote.
I'm still reaching out to him to figure out what happened there.
And for MetaWorlds, we submitted our sixth sip, or it would be our fifth sip, which was
the funding of this Sandow podcast to the community.
So it should be right behind you, Arthmoret, your mandate for Dow collection.
And then that'll go to community vote just like everything else.
But that brings us to now with seven sips passed, 13% of the budget has been expensed.
13%.
And I will need to insert a line for yours, Arthmoret.
So if it were to pass, how much would that ask on the budget as well?
And which category were you going for here?
Your budget?
Well, I'm not entirely sure, to be honest, I guess it's the NFT side of things.
The NFT side?
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not fully aware of the sort of the partition of however all the budget that
works.
Most of the projects around the collection is meant to be self-funded through the sales
of most NFTs in the existing collection.
The only thing that is, I guess, to take it out from the budget is the remuneration that
I'm asking and Greta is asking for this mission.
Okay, got it.
And also the cost of organizing the exhibition that comes with it.
Got it.
Yeah, we'll get into the price as well.
And then I think we'll probably know which which budgets coming out of after that.
Okay, Brian, let's get right into the discussion.
So a number one, what inspired the title mandate for Dow collection management?
What's behind that?
I guess it might be a very French wording.
But you know, I like the word mandate because it's when I was asked for the job, when I
was like scooted out for the job, I first didn't really realize that I would have to
submit the SIP and have to go to the vote, etc.
And so to me, I'm asking for a mandate, so just like anyone you would elect in, you know,
any democratic process, people in a representative democracy, people have a mandate to give them
the trust and you trust them enough to be able to put the program in use, right?
Why did I put that?
Because in my risk analysis, the main risk I always have to face when dealing with management
of collection was whenever a collectors or foundation or institution would ask me to
manage the collection, they would say, well, you have this much budget for this much time,
right?
And sometimes some clients, they have issue, you know, personal issue that make it so that
they need liquidity.
And they want to, you know, back it up.
And they want to, you know, go out from that mandate.
And so often, the main problem is that because of that, you cannot go through your strategy
fully.
And so when I ask for a mandate is that I ask people to trust me, whatever my strategy
and not to be like, oh, let's vote for impeaching, whoever was in charge at some point, you know.
So the notion of mandate is the fact that I'm asking people to, you know, elect me to
direct the collection for bits with the strategy that I'm proposing.
And that if they're not happy with what I'm doing after my mandate is done, they can elect
someone else.
They can really if they are happy with it, but I asked them to sort of trust me throughout
the process until we reached a deadline that is decided by sandbox, which is every first
of January or 31 of December, pretty much.
Okay, got it.
And yeah, well, that's the term mandate is because of that.
I guess that's the one that sort of ticked with you.
And collection management is because that's what the mission is about.
And I will be able to describe a bit more what the job of a collection manager is.
It's described within the seat, but I know that most people are, I guess, not familiar
with the type of profile and job situation, which I'm not totally well.
Yeah, let's get let's get right into that.
So how did all this come about?
Where did it start?
It started through Jean-Michel Payon, which I believe is a member of your council or advisor
board or something like that.
Because someone that I've been familiar with a few years now is in charge of great capital.
And what happened is I guess he knows personally, Sebastian Borger and the other founder of sandbox
is someone that, you know, truly believe in his thesis is that digital art is going to
be a trillion dollar worth asset within 10 years.
And for that, he built a company called Great Capital, where he proposed structured funds
around digital art investment, especially NFTs and in Web3.
And so I guess it was last year we did during NFT Paris, we met him again in NFC at Lisbon
at the Arab Bank.
And I know a bunch of people from sandbox were there.
What they did is they sort of went through the collection that exists within the wallet
that is shared within the SIP, realizing that a large part of the collection was established
within 2021 and 2022, where the main market focus was PFP collectibles.
So 10 key 10k avatar collection pretty much.
And just realized that, you know, it's not really diversified heavily reliant on that
specific market category at 95 98 percent.
And therefore, it seems he wanted to propose that we diversify the collection to a more
art centric point of view.
I guess he couldn't do it himself because he's a very busy guy.
And he was looking for people that have experience in that field.
So he reached out to me, I had a call with Cyrille that is in charge of the things that
are related to the DAO.
The DAO administrator.
Is the DAO administrator, OK?
I was in charge of his title.
So we had a call explaining the situation, the project that, you know, most of the wallet
that is at the moment in custody of Sebastien Bourget and his co-founder will be transferred
to the DAO.
And, and yeah, they thought, you know, anything when you have that much of assets locked,
it's important to manage it with flexibility and actively.
And yeah, and so the other just say that it's too heavily reliant on collectibles and that
it might be worth as a midterm, long term strategy to slowly liquidate part of this
collection and acquire, you know, other category of the market, namely the art more side of
that, which I'm specializing because we just believe that it's a more resilient market
and it's, you know, more in tune with the ideals of sandbox and the mission that it
trying to pursue with this DAO.
And yeah, so that's all it came about.
It was honestly, that went very fast because they reached out to me, not even a month ago.
So I did this sip in a week and we submitted through the draft right on.
So you reached out a month ago.
OK.
And are you, when did you have the call with Sero?
Yeah, about a month ago, two weeks ago, perhaps.
I had to do that this quite fast, honestly, went through the template they had, learn
a bit about the process, you know, and try to sort of price things out and do all the
primary work that is needed.
And are you an employee of Jean-Michel or are you a partner, a freelancer?
No, I don't work with Jean-Michel.
Jean-Michel is one of my clients.
He has bought artwork in my exhibition before.
Usually through the Arab Bank of Sudan, which he's the curator of.
And so in my last exhibition, he bought a work.
But you know, he was a founder of, one of the founder of Ledger.
So he's been, I know him from the space around for quite a while now.
From far away, then we became a bit more close, but it's always been like a very friendly
relationship, I'd say.
And I don't really work with him whatsoever.
Yeah.
He's super nice to come to my exhibition, support the artist I'm trying to support as
well.
And yeah, sometimes he did sponsor a show of friends of mine that I've introduced him
to, but that's about it.
Okay, so he's a client and you mentioned exhibitions, which is also mentioned in your SIP.
When you say offline as exhibitions in your SIP, is that what you're referring to, the
exhibitions you're doing now?
So offline or ERL exhibition is what I've been doing for the last few years.
It's about organizing ERL shows with a scenographic element writing text.
There's a lot that goes into making an exhibition, but yeah, that's usually what I do.
The last one I did personally was during NFT Paris, where I had a booth there.
So when you set up a booth and present an artist, that's an exhibition.
But it can take so many forms.
But yeah, that's one of the things I think would be nice to showcase at least the position
we'll be making for this now.
And you said you've been doing the exhibition for how many years, two or three?
Yeah, about that, I was not done with the master quite yet.
My first exhibition, which I guess was one of the first exhibition of NFTs in Europe,
was in February 2021 at an art fair called the Men Art, which I presented artists that
was mostly refugees.
And the topic was saying how WebTree was a tool for emancipation and how the ideals of
the blockchain fits, especially the political situation of country like Lebanon, Syria,
UK, Iran, for example.
So yeah, that was my first exhibition that I did organize on my own.
But before that, I worked in art galleries, auction houses.
So I did have to deal with organizing the mission before that, but I was an intern.
And I wasn't the one taking the financial risk.
So it's a bit of a different gig.
Got it.
And going back to what you were...
Hello?
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me okay?
I can hear me.
We can hear you.
Can you hear each other?
Say something, Brian?
You're back.
Okay.
You froze for a minute.
I'm sorry.
Okay, got it.
Got it.
No problem.
So where all this began was Jean-Michel, how did he originally propose this SIP to you?
How did he do that?
I think he was in the context of us going to the vernissage of an exhibition at Adverse
Gallery.
I guess we went out for dinner and he told me that he was working on setting up the DAO.
So I think he had had a pretty big impact on setting up this DAO throughout to pitch
it to the founders of Thumblox.
And his job is to also invest in digital art and manage collection in a way.
So I guess he just knew there was this coming up and he needed someone to deal with it.
So it was quite, how do you call that, informal in many regards at first.
And this was a little over a month ago at NFC Lisbon?
No, NFC Lisbon was many months ago.
Now that was, yeah, NFC Lisbon was in May, I think.
No, it was just, I think it was because of the opening of the Adverse Gallery that recently
opened, which is a gallery that is owned by Sébastien Banger.
And this was about a little over a month ago?
Yeah.
Okay, got it.
It was just four weeks ago or something.
What I mean by that is just that it's been quite a recent project.
Yeah, I got it.
Okay.
And you mentioned that the DAO has assets.
I didn't know the DAO had any assets.
When did this transfer happen?
And I saw that there's 14,000 assets in your set proposal?
Yeah.
I don't think they have it per se already, but it's very much in plan to have this collection
that we're talking about here being transferred into the custody or at least the jurisdiction
of the DAO.
But yeah, people are not aware of it because it's not a corporate collection of the sandbox,
it's a personal collection of the sandbox founders.
This is, I guess, I don't know how that goes on the budget or the valuation of the DAO
itself, but usually a lot of DAOs are built around a common treasury and often other DAOs
are built around a common collection.
So I guess that just if you guys were not aware of it, that's good news in any way.
No, I had no idea.
Yeah.
So and I think that was very much into an idea that from Jean-Michel, he's the best
one to respond for himself.
So I cannot really tell what's going on to those upper echelon.
But yeah, as far as I'm concerned, those wallets and assets within those wallets will be transferred
into the custody of the DAO itself.
And even if my seat does not go through, I guess this will still happen, I hope at least.
And then, you know, I guess you guys will be about to decide whatever to do with it
if you want to liquidate it.
All right, then.
I'm really glad we had this conversation, Brian, because I did not know that.
I'm quite sure most of the DAO San Fam did not know that either.
Don't take my word for it.
Just that I've been very much informed about it.
And all I know is that they need someone to manage it and they wanted to go through the
DAO system to manage that.
If it will be transferred, if that seat doesn't go through, I'm honestly unaware of.
That would be a good question to ask, but I'm not the best place to answer the specific
question.
All I know is that if I were to manage it, it will obviously be under the custody of
the DAO at this point.
Got it.
OK.
Cool.
So that I think that pretty well establishes how this all came to be.
That's good.
That makes sense.
So what is this sip wine to accomplish?
I think from what I understand, you're proposing that the DAO management, excuse me, the management
of those assets after they're transferred to the DAO.
Did they and did anyone say when this was going to happen?
Has it already happened?
The transfer?
I don't think it has already happened.
We have suggested to them what the operational system should be because obviously, you know,
a lot of those assets are not meant to be sold, I believe.
A large part of those assets are like sandbox land, sandbox assets.
So we're not going to sell those, obviously.
So I think we're going to make, as I think it's written in the SIP, one wallet as a vault,
which anything we're not going to sell anymore, we're going to put there.
One wallet as an operational wallet for selling and buying.
And a large part of those assets are honestly not even worth the gas.
And so we'll be liquidated from those wallet originally.
And when that will be done, the funds will be transferred to the second wallet that I
mentioned.
Okay.
So you run us through a summary of...
Did you lose me again?
Am I frozen?
So that's just my connection of my room recently.
Okay.
I'm not quite set up.
He's lost connection a bit.
So while he's waiting to get back.
So okay, that makes a lot more sense.
I'm glad that he explained that background.
And I'll send him a quick message.
Ah, you're back.
I'm back.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, no problem.
No problem.
Just continue to say when it's frozen, because while you're doing that, I can just recount
with the audience what's been happening.
And then when...
Yeah, no, we're good.
We'll go right through this.
That's no problem.
So walk me through...
This SIP is about your nomination to manage that, not that the transfer will happen.
Because the transfer is going to happen regardless.
This SIP is about your nomination to manage it.
Oui?
Yes.
That's correct.
Because managing, building up a collection is just a job.
Most people don't know of it.
Of course, being an art collector is not a job.
But being a collection manager is very much is.
What is the difference between a collection manager and an art collector?
First is who's money is buying the things that is actually entering the collection for
once.
But also the fact that, you know, building up a collection with a thesis, with an angle,
with an objective is something that takes time.
And collectors that I've worked with, you know, in both physical art or digital art,
they have collection that has so many assets that they can barely track anymore and barely
realize what is valuable, what is even worth keeping, or which is the direction this collection
is going to.
And then when things get big, you know, you have a lot of administrative stuff to do.
So it's all physical artists about insurances, transportation, knowing where is where, what
is where, et cetera.
Because, you know, funnily enough, it's quite easy to lose track of an artwork when you
move it around in different locations and stuff like that.
And also just manage things like museum lending, you know, all that takes a lot of time that
most collectors that usually are successful business entrepreneurs don't really have time
to focus on.
So they delegate that to a collection manager, right?
And yeah, it's all about being, I guess, a bit decisive about what we're doing with those
assets.
You couldn't very much, you know, live it as it is, and cross fingers, hopefully, in
the next few years, it will be worth more than it actually is.
But my hunch is that, you know, is it really meaningful for the sandbox now to own a bunch
of PFP, Tenki, Avatar collectibles?
I don't really think so.
I think it's much more interesting to limit the number of assets within the collection,
refocus the collection toward a more art-centric system, support, you know, independent artists,
just like, you know, sandbox is trying to provide a platform to independent creator,
and use that as, at some point, a leverage to, you know, recognizability of the sandbox
as, you know, sort of a corporate collection.
And just, I guess it's a matter of also trying to support the ecosystem of sandbox, but also
use it as almost like a lobbyist system.
At some point, you know, entering a big collection is really important.
And I've put within the SIP a phrase that I think they've finally told is that the whole
should be greater than the sum of its parts.
At the moment, the value of the collection that is in the sandbox, it's just the sum
of its parts.
So it's this body plus this whatever thing equal that much value, right?
When you're a big collector or a big institutional collection, the fact that you collect some
of the things provide what we call provenance.
And if you have the same two edition of the same artwork, and one was owned by a very
recognized collectors and one was owned by nobody, chances that if you're selling it
at auction, the first one is going to be at a much higher estimate than the second one,
because it has a much more interesting provenance.
And so setting up an angle for the collection will actually be able to leverage that provenance
system and saying that, well, we have no curated collection by a professional that is meaningful,
that is culturally relevant, that in, you know, support emerging artists, but also can
be recognized as a pretty cool and good art collection.
And so whoever joins this collection will benefit from this art, just like it happened
with Cosimo de Medici.
Whenever an artist is bought by this guy, suddenly you have a surge of secondary sales,
you have a bunch of primary sales happening to the artist.
And that happened solely because this guy is actually building an art collection, not
a sum of, you know, collectibles, assets that at some point were very sought after, that
nowadays not many people really regard as interesting as it was two years ago.
Art is much more resilient to time.
And so I think, you know, when you have a collection that is estimated at a few million
euros at the very least, difficult to put a real time estimate on it as such, but it's
a very least a few or a couple of million of euros.
I think it's, it would be important to use those funds and this capacity to support the
space to support living artists rather than, you know, big 10K projects that, you know,
don't really have an impact much anymore, to be honest.
Okay, pause for a second.
Alright, so you're the TSB art collection is worth a couple million euros is what you
just said.
Okay.
About that, it's difficult to put a real time estimate, but the last time the estimate was
done, I don't have the number of figures in EIF, but it was somewhere around 3 million
euros.
Okay.
And you mentioned something really interesting.
I want to go back and understand it.
First the word provenance.
So I had I looked that up.
So the promise means the origin of something.
Okay.
And when you said that the value of TSB collection is the sum of its parts, were you saying that
that's not a good thing and you wanted to change it to what you believed before, which
was what?
Yeah, the whole must be greater than the sum of its parts.
It's an expression.
I don't know what I think it's a philosophy that use that.
Yeah, I recognize that, but connect it to what you were saying.
Yeah.
So if you have a few artworks together that doesn't have anything to do with each other,
then the value of this collection is just the sum of this artwork.
But if you're putting some efforts in curating something, in putting some red lines, some
red threads, something that connects everything together, that suddenly this ensemble is becoming
something else, becoming something greater, something of an higher value.
And this provenance, so that is the effect of provenance.
That's the added value of the work that I'm doing as a curator or as a collection manager
is to say that, yeah, this collection can have an angle, can have a mission, can have
a take this, an idea, an objective, and has things integrate within this idea and make
it bigger and bigger and greater and greater.
This has a beneficial externality effects to all those artwork.
So suddenly if you're buying an artist or if you have an addition, the fact that is
the addition from this specific collection has some added value.
And this is what we call provenance.
And provenance, yeah, it's the source of where things are, but it's a term that is used more
broadly in the art world to say what is the, how do you call that, like the pedigree of
something.
So just like when you're buying a dog, for example, in dog breeding, if this dog is the
son of whichever champion of duty context, et cetera, this art is pedigree, right?
It's a lineage.
Lineage.
I'm using a bunch of words.
It's okay.
I know very little about the art world, so I'm learning here.
So provenance is a word and it talks about lineage, like aura and ancestry.
And that's what gives it value is its history and its connection to lineage.
Yes.
Exactly.
And sometimes a more broader example is when celebrities own some artwork, the fact that
the celebrity own that specific artwork is going to have added value.
There was a few years ago, there was a big auction from the Yves Saint Laurent collection,
for example.
And most of the works within that collection went from a much higher market price than
they would usually go for just because he was owned at some point by Yves Saint Laurent,
displaying his own, et cetera.
So this had participates to the value of the artwork, the fact that you're owning it.
This person has owned it at some point.
And this can be true for corporate collection.
So I've used, I think, the Pernod Ricard example in the SIP.
The Pernod Ricard Foundation, which is a brand that doing Ricard, which is a very specific
French alcohol.
The Pernod Ricard Foundation, some of France, there's a lot of foundations of our friends,
Art Foundation.
There's a company that was a major center of art history in France.
They made what we call the Prix Marcel Duchamp.
And the Prix Marcel Duchamp has now become, after years, a very important distinction
for an artist that can very much have a huge impact on an artist's career in contemporary
art.
So it's a price that is discerned by a corporate business that has nothing to do with the art
world, aside from the fact that they've built up throughout the years a very important collection
of French contemporary art, but also pop art from many various artists.
I think they have some of the biggest collection of warhols in corporate art collection.
But that's just one example.
And what's the name of the people you're describing right now who has this collection?
So it's a business called the Pernod Ricard.
Pernod Ricard is a booze business in France.
And this...
Brian, I think I'm learning French as we're speaking, so go right ahead.
It's a French brand, so it's going to sound weird.
But Marcel Duchamp is one of the most famous French artists, is the guy that invented the
concept of ready-made, which is this artwork with the urinal, with the toilet put outside
down.
It's the first time that an artist decided that anything an artist decide that can be
art is art, as long as he signed it.
But that's a little course of...
But that's usually that marks the switch from modern art to contemporary art in the 1960s,
70s.
And so they made a price with the name of this artist.
What I meant to say is that this business that has nothing to do with art, it's a booze
business.
They set up a collection throughout the years that enabled them to gain some sort of cultural
importance that now they can get the benefit of through the fact that they have a huge leverage
to have an impact on artists' career.
But that just...
I put in the SIP, there is a list, an article with almost 40 or 50 corporate art collection.
It's not random that business own collection of arts.
A lot of it sometimes has to do with fiscal benefits, but not only.
It's just like why our business supporting athletes at the Olympics.
You don't really have their logos or the things, so it's not about visibility.
It's about something else, about supporting sports, the development of sport and culture,
and also just supporting individuals that they believe in.
So yeah, as of why I showed the business on the collection, there's a bit of that in the
SIP, but it has proven useful throughout history.
Okay.
So I am... this is awesome.
I was not expecting...
You clearly have been in this for a while, so let's keep on going.
So this SIP is about your nomination, and if I understand you correctly, you want to
refocus the future DOW's collection to have provenance.
Yes.
I wanted to make it a real art collection.
So the fact that something is bought by the sandbox DOW would have a big impact, just
like at the moment.
It is the same thing with Flamingo DOW and a few other art DOW.
Whenever those DOWs support or incubate artists, for example, the fact that they have a collection
to bag it up is something that participates to the legitimacy, that participates to the
impact they can have in the space.
And I think one of the greatest things that happened to Web3 was this huge wave of artists
coming in and creative people coming in that was largely missing before that.
And yeah, just like in the manifesto, I think it says that it's important to recognize the
impact those people have.
And sandbox is a creative project, right, which a lot of artists are involved with.
So it just seems more logical to support artists than it is to support or PFP project that
are more close to a business than they are independent artists running it, right?
So yeah, that's mostly that.
But for example, it can be also thematical things that are linked with the sandbox.
We can decide that for one quarter, we're going to mostly collect voxel artists, for
example, artists that are working with voxel because we think that's a match with the visual
identity of the sandbox and there's been many great voxel architect that has produced artwork
that are very interesting to look at.
Mad Maraca, for example, Marica, is an amazing voxel artist.
There's a bunch of French voxel artists that I know of as well that worked on Game of Thrones
and stuff like that.
I don't have all their names by heart, but what I mean is that we can find thematic that
match with what the sandbox is doing, can be also interactive art, for example, which
is a very unregarded, no specific field of the art world that is still quite under the
radar at some point.
It can be other things like generative art as well when it makes sense to what, I guess,
thematically and aesthetically toward what we are building at the sandbox in general.
So it can be thematical.
What I meant to say is that when you have a collection that is managed and when there
is at least a bit of thought process toward a collection that is toward a rational, it
makes this collection just more relevant and throughout the years when something is relevant,
it becomes more valuable.
And I cannot say about the valuation of it, like this is what I've been saying to the
sandbox team is that I'm not offering financial advisory.
I'm not, you know, I'm not under the, in France to do financial advisory, you need to be signed
up at the INF, which is the Autorité des Marchés Financiers, which I'm not referred
to.
And that's what I say.
I don't offer financial advisory.
All I offer is artistical advisory.
And you know, better artists usually lead to better valuation of the collection, but
I cannot make promises saying that under my mandate, this collection will suddenly be
10 times more valuable as it is.
It will be certainly more diversified, more culturally relevant, more art-centric and
art-focused and hopefully more valuable at some point.
But I cannot make promises on that because we're going to tell you, you're going to make
a return on buying this artwork.
It's lying.
I've made my thesis for my master's degree was about art forms.
And I've made a study, a comparative study of art forms throughout the last hundred of
years to the stock market, but the same period.
The first art form was founded in 1910, I believe, mostly focusing on artists like the
Impressionists.
So you will think they have performed very well, right?
They did a bunch of really great things that make greater turn, but the large majority
of it were artists that didn't really make it through history, right?
And so the conclusion of my thesis was that the stock markets always outperform art forms
over the same period.
So art is a bad investment.
If you think about art as an investment, it is inherently a bad investment because there's
many other investment forms where you would have guarantees if it reached a certain level
under like 30%, where you would have at least some time horizon.
And there's been a bunch of fractionalized art stuff, masterwork.io that offer you to
buy one dollar share of rough-coast artwork or big artists like that.
Usually are not competitive if you compare it to other investment vessel because they
offer much less visibility.
You rarely know how much time it's going to take to make a return on the artwork.
If it's going to take five years, six years, seven years, there is the cut of the auction
hours, I mean, there's a lot that goes into it.
But to say it is that the benefit of owning an art collection is not entirely financial.
It can be financial at some points for a portion of it, but it's about also the benefit that
it brings you socially and culturally.
And I often cite a French sociologist Jean-Jacques Bourdieu that explained the concept of financial,
cultural and cultural capital, which is very important and give you an idea as of why on
the top 10 of the billionaires in France, you have one guy that own a museum, the other
guy is on Christie's, the third guy is on Sotheby's.
All of that is both Christie's and Sotheby's is owned by French guy, French billionaire.
And it's because in France we do have an incentive on social and cultural capital.
The US, you're rich, you make it, right?
You're respected because you made it in life, you're a billionaire and people respect that.
In France, if you're a billionaire, but you're selling potatoes and you don't know anything
about the story, people are not going to respect you because you made millions selling potatoes.
They want to use this sort of this notion of acceptation in social security that is sometimes
a bit gatekeeper, but this notion is just that, yeah, to be successful is not just about
the financial side of things, there is the notion of cultural capital and social capital
as well that are important.
And this is true for corporate as well.
That's what I'm going back to it.
That's why corporations support athletes at the Olympic games.
That's why they're building up our collection.
It's not because it's the best investment.
They could have much better investment with that money.
It's an investment in the image and also the fact that they believe this would have sort
of great externality at some point and other opportunity that they wouldn't have otherwise
benefit from their employees or whichever.
But it's just that I always say and I'm being very transparent about the fact that I cannot
say to the Dado that under my mandate, certainly the collection is going to be much more valuable.
I cannot say that.
What I can say is that's going to be much better collection art wise, but as an investment,
it's not the best investment, to be honest.
But at the moment we have assets existing and I think it's important to do a collection
within the Dado because most of the Dado that I've seen succeed often are using art collection
as a leverage for the communication, but for the support also to small creators.
And I think it could be a great onboarding tool to the sandbox in general, to bring more
creative people to build on the sandbox, to have great artists participate, great mind
and just be able to support them.
Okay.
All right.
That's okay.
That's good.
I'm taking it in.
I think we should probably talk about this either on your DAO, your SIP forum, but I
think it would be wise to change some of the wording in your SIP name because it did not
come across as though this was a nomination for you for a collection that will be coming
to the Dado regardless of whether or not your SIP is passed.
That's a very, very important thing.
It puts us in a different light because now that would change this all to be about you
and your qualifications, which you seem to have many, by the way.
So what did you say your master's degree was in?
So art business, but I also have a master's degree in both, double master's degree in
art history, in art business that I did in Southern Business Institute of Art.
And I also have a bunch of certification from Art Tactic as an art market analyst and a
few other things like that that I did throughout the years.
Okay.
All right.
But it's mostly art practice.
And I also have a business administration bachelor degree from a big business school
in Europe.
Cool.
But I did manage collection before, just not at the same scale, to be honest.
Most of the clients I had were within a few hundred thousand budgets.
Okay.
This is starting to...
All right.
Good.
I'm so glad we talked.
So tell me about...
If you have feedback about the wording and stuff, please do.
We are not English speakers, so I know sometimes the wording is a bit tricky.
Yeah, I understand the word mandate now.
I get why you use the word mandate.
I'll suggest something in the actual forums, what I would recommend because Dow mandate
for Dow collection management makes it seem like it's something different to an English
speaker at least.
So I would happily provide my opinion for what I think based on what we've been talking
about so far.
So thank you for giving me your background.
I appreciate that.
I understand the key player now, you and I understand now, Jean-Michel.
Jean-Michel, tell me about Greeda.
She's mentioned in here.
What is her part in all this?
So Greeda has been pretty much an art advisor.
It's her French name, but she's a Korean girl.
Okay, got it.
But her name is very difficult to pronounce, so she's going by the name of Greeda.
So Greeda, she's been a manager of the EAM gallery, which was one of the two digital
art places in Paris.
There was the NFT factory from one hand and there was the EAM gallery from the other hand.
Wait, what was the first one?
EAM gallery and what else?
The NFT factory.
Okay, the NFT factory.
Yeah.
And so if you went to NFT Paris, most of the side events would either be at one of those
two locations.
So Greeda has done that for a few years, I guess.
The first exhibition she might have done at the EAM gallery was in 2021.
It must be late 2021, something like that.
She managed that for a while.
And then this gallery has closed because it was originally a design gallery, guy behind
it just wanted to change some gears and do another shop and stuff like that.
And so she was hired by Sebastian Bourget to manage the art verse gallery.
So now at the moment she's managing the art verse gallery.
She's also the art...
I didn't catch that.
She was hired by Sebastian to manage what?
The art verse gallery.
So art verse gallery is a specific story.
It was supposed to be the new office of the sandbox at some point, but I think the sandbox
grew too big and now the place is not big enough to have as much employees as they wanted
to have.
And so it was switched to an art gallery project.
So art verse is owned by Sebastian Bourget.
Greeda is working...
I can't make out that word.
Can you say...
What is the gallery called?
Art verse.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
The art verse gallery.
So she used to manage what was called the EM gallery.
EM gallery, yeah.
And now she manages the art verse gallery.
Exactly.
They just recently opened.
They had two exhibitions so far.
And that's one of the reasons she couldn't really participate much in the day because
she was dealing with those exhibition.
Greeda also is the art director of the NFC.
So if you're an artist and you've shown anything at the NFC, you have been in contact with
Greeda.
And she was usually...
I don't know what the NFC is.
What's NFC?
NFC Lisbon.
It's a web-true event.
She's the art director for NFC Lisbon.
Yeah.
She's very close to Jon Krah.
She's pretty much someone that's very well connected, to be honest, because she's very
outgoing, outspoken, very positive.
So she has a great relation with Sebastian, but also with Jon Krah.
People that I know as well, but she's really just great at connecting and networking.
So she has a lot of experience with all that.
She's been full-time NFT for the last few years, as long as I know her already.
And so she couldn't participate much in the debate because she was dealing with her exhibition,
which takes a lot of time.
If anyone made exhibition here, they know what I'm talking about.
It's very nerve-racking and time consuming.
And yeah.
And so I know she has done other things in her life before that.
I'm not fully aware of her bio, but it's in the SIP as well.
And she's the one that wrote the manifesto that I've mentioned.
And she's pretty much what we call a curator, which is a word that has become an umbrella
term in Web3.
But her specialty is pretty much selecting artists for exhibition and supporting them
to try to sell their work.
That's about that.
And so she will be mostly helping me on the thematical sort of side of things.
So making the catalog, writing the text about it, snow, setting up the show, and other mission
like that.
So she will, I guess, less be involved in the buying and selling part of the operational
side of things, but she will help gear things to a specific direction.
She will help a lot with the intellectual works that need to be done when writing text,
putting up catalog, producing exhibition, things like that.
It's more of her alleyway.
It's mine as well, but I cannot do everything.
And so GRIDA was, I think, important to include in the SIP because our large collection, we
have artists, we have founders, we have builders across that.
So I think our network and our capacity of connecting people is a very important skill
that could very much help building up a great collection, especially when reaching out to
Artism Commission or for private sales, things like that.
So yeah, that's about GRIDA.
But I think, yeah, she's going to be a bit absent for the next few weeks also because
she's going back to Korea for her family.
But yeah, she's also worked with the Korean Art Center and she have good institutional
connection.
She's mostly someone that I just enjoy working with and that I know can have a very interesting
impact when put to use.
And so GRIDA, tell me if I have this all right.
GRIDA will help you setting up shows, exhibitions, cataloging, and what else?
Also I guess a bit of the writing text after about the artists, but also just thinking
with me about the thematics that we're going to pursue in our buying strategy.
The provenance.
Yeah, no, thematic is about saying we're going to focus on the specific notion, idea.
I've mentioned Voxel, for example, we could work on Voxel artists and she would help me
saying which artists are relevant about that or not.
What was that word?
Automatics?
Thematics.
Oh, thematics, themes.
Thinking about the theme of the collection and where you want to focus.
Okay.
The TH is something that's very...
That's okay.
It's my fault, Brian, not yours.
It's my fault.
Yeah, she will help with thematic and yeah, she's mostly going to be like in support function.
I think a large part of it is I'm going to deal with because I know she's pretty busy.
So she's going to be quite limited in time, but she will help with our connection with
our network where people she knows, places she can access to getting screens.
Someone that can use to solve problems in a way.
So I'm relying on her whichever if I have a problem or if I need a bit of help, she
will be able to provide.
Okay.
I'm writing down this so I don't forget.
This is a nomination for Arthmore and his team.
So Arthmore, Brian.
B-R-I-A-N or B-R-Y?
We have an I.
I. Okay.
To manage the future DAO's NFT collection and to curate its theme for...
I'll just put it there.
Okay, cool.
Good, good, good, good.
Good.
All right, we'll get...
We may get in this later and I may talk about this in actual forums.
I'm worried about you, Brian.
I'm worried.
The SIP that was written is...
What you're telling me is so much more than what I read.
Like this, you've got qualifications and you both have a deep expertise in this.
You're looking to manage and provide theme and focus to the DAO collection that will
be coming to the DAO from the sandbox.
I don't think anybody knows anything about this.
What we read this...
I think it was very recently decided, to be honest, I believe.
Okay.
Because I read this as just a Sam fan person.
I'm like, I don't understand what this is asking me to do.
What am I voting on?
And so, yes, it's important, I think, that we...
I'll offer what wording I can to help make this, but for everyone watching, this is a
nomination SIP.
The DAO is going to be receiving something like 3 million euros worth of artwork and
collection from the founders.
Sandbox founders.
Right, from the sandbox.
So we're talking from Jean-Michel.
We're talking from Sebastian, what the sandbox owns already.
So Apecoin DAO.
So some of the stuff we're hearing about that, I'm sure is connected to this somehow.
Whereas Seb frequently says he wants the sandbox to be the cultural capital of the metaverse.
This is one of the ways in which it wants to accomplish that by having a relevant artwork
collection that has, as Brian said, provenance.
So a theme, a focus, something that is more than the sum of its parts.
It is the whole.
So good.
I think, Brian, we really, really need to work on how it's messaged because that is
not coming across in this SIP, at least to me.
And I know on the silence that I've been seeing from all the other rest of the community,
I think they're in the same boat as I am.
That's why I said I'm worried.
I'm happy that you have explained it this way because I would not have known that this
is what this was about.
Yeah, it was something that I realized when I sort of had the question coming up.
I was like, a lot of the questions are not really specific to it.
But even within the sandbox team, there was a lot of question about what is the job of
a collection manager really?
I think you explained it well when you said you provide focus and theme.
And especially when you said that right now, all of the collections are spread out.
They're PFP, this, they're profile picture, that, they're one off collections, maybe a
board eight, maybe whatever.
But when you can focus the theme of an artwork collection to be this is helping this and
this is helping that, and it kind of builds this provenance that you talked about.
And that, while you can't give financial advice on that, typically will start to build value
because of how the sum of greater than its parts.
And that, that is a powerful message.
That is the sort of thing.
But it's about giving meanings, you know, what I've said in the, in the city, people
have sort of clicked on the random accumulation of things because I purposely put that there
because it just to say that has it stand now, this collection is surely worth money, but
it's meaningless.
It doesn't say anything about the sandbox.
It doesn't say anything about the mission, the vision it has.
It's just a bunch of stuff in a wallet.
And it can be much more than that is what I believe could happen with this.
But yeah, I just, as I said, it was all very recent and went out and I drafted that SIP
in like just a few days, when I have time with other projects.
So I know it's not quite as it should be at the, as a complete product, but that's okay.
That's okay.
The fact that you put it out there, that's good.
That's good.
The fact that you submitted it is, is the most important thing.
We can work on the messaging and all that.
And that's what this is all about to, to clarify what is the intent.
So you, you said some, I want to capture here.
The current TSB collection doesn't say anything about the sandbox and you believe it can be
much more than that.
Hey Pepe, we are currently talking about a SIP draft by Arthmore, otherwise known as
Brian.
And this is a SIP for his nomination to be the curator of the millions of euros worth
of DAO, future DAO collections that the sandbox currently owns and intends to give to the
sandbox.
So yeah, it's, it's called right now, it called mandate for DAO collection management under
SIP drafts.
That's what we're discussing right now.
Pepe.
Pepe was the SIP draft author for Magic Palette that passed right before yours a couple weeks
ago.
Okay.
Who are the external advice?
So I think we know what Greta's role is.
We know your role and we know what you want to do, Brian.
And good.
And so you will be what, like the, the chief curator, like the head curator, the collection
manager.
It should say curator because in our space curator is used to define so many different
stuff and I'm not going to go into the specificity of each term because that's just a boring
debate.
But, but yeah, my job is mostly just doing the collection management.
So yeah, collection manager is a good title.
Okay, great.
All right.
So other than you and Greta, who are the external advisors of this?
I don't know if it's a specific section of a SIP, if you're supposed to nominate special,
you know, external advisor necessarily.
But going back to the people in the council, you know, except from the most from people
from Asia that is within this council, I know most of those people.
So I guess it's going to be the council and advisory board that exists.
You know, in a way, for example, is an artist that I had the chance to work with before.
Who was that?
Did you say in a majority?
There was a document about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I watched a video of her.
She's on the council.
I've been meaning to reach out to her to get her on the podcast as well.
Yes, I would love to.
I don't know if you know, but that right there, it's a, it's a gym bay.
It's a, it's a drum from, from that region from where she's from.
And yeah, she's Malian, Malian, French artists and filmmaker.
Does she live in France or does she live elsewhere?
She live in Portugal, actually.
Portugal.
Okay.
Yeah.
I've been meaning to, I've been, what each of these along the way, like Loretta and
Ina and Mia Bao, Matthew, Zafchao is one I just watched not long ago.
I've been looking at YouTube videos to try and familiarize myself with them, but Ina
and Zaf and Loretta are the ones I want to get on the podcast to kind of help explain
what it is they do.
So what is, what is your interaction with the advisory board?
So most, anyone that is European, pretty much I know personally, throughout the years, I
was trying to find the list from Google, but I couldn't really find it.
But I guess that since there are people that have some sort of responsibility to all that,
that they would be the privileged sort of people I would ask for advisory.
But you know, someone that I think is one of the best collection manager in our space,
Vincent Vendougue, that you know, created the Triaro Capital collection before it went
all, it went all itself at some point.
He created the what collection?
You know, he curated the what we call Starina Capital.
Vincent Vendougue is the, you know, the founder of AOTM Gallery, Art of the Next Millennials.
He was one of the best art dealer in our space.
He curated the collection of I guess Triaro Capital was the company.
You know, they were the one behind the Cersius Protocol or something like that.
They built up a very amazing collection.
And when this protocol went bankrupt, it was a bit before SBF.
It was under what we call a judicial liquidation.
And so, you know, all the sales of Sotheby's that are called Grail sales, it's a city of
sales, it's all from the collection built by Vincent Vendougue.
And he was one of the first to, you know, invest on artworks on generative art in our
space was a big generative art focus collection.
And someone that I'm in touch with that I'm sure would be happy to give advice if I asked
for it.
So that would be someone that I would have in mind.
But you know, I just could spell his last name.
It's Vincent.
What's his last name?
Vendougue.
So it's a play on the world on Vincent Vendougue.
So Vincent Vendougue.
Vincent Van Gogh.
Van Gogh.
Yeah.
So yeah, Vincent Van Gogh, I guess.
I can put it in chat.
I'm surprised you don't know this guy is big.
I'll be honest with you, Brian, I am not being in the art world at all.
I know very, very little about it.
It's very NFT specific.
I see you're talking about Vincent Vendougue.
Yeah.
And that would be someone that, you know, given his experience that I would be enticed
to ask advice for.
But already, him and a few other people I know of personally, you know, I guess he would
be mostly relying on Jean-Michel Payon and other members of either the advisory board
or council of the DAO.
The DAO makes much more sense, I think.
Okay.
And yeah, you know, artists are often the best advisor on their own medium, you know.
So there's people like, if I were to buy AI artwork for kids, I think I would ask, you
know, Alexandre Cartega, I think I would ask, you know, Jedi Wolf.
If I were to buy photography, I think I would ask Norcal Guy.
I pretty much have a huge listing of collectors and what their collection focus is, because
I do exhibitions on various different mediums.
So you know, you don't reach out to the same collector for any works, you know, if you're
coming up to someone that exclusively collects photography and you're like, I have a great
animator to sell you, they're not going to be interested by that because they're not
buying this type of stuff.
So depending on the medium, depending on the thematic, I think I know as much, you know,
legitimes slash skillful person that could help me with.
It's difficult to say at this point, but in any cases, I do believe that Jean-Michel within
his spare time would be always about to, you know, answer to a few texts here and there,
if need be.
Okay.
They are not specifically nominated as advisory within the SIP.
I don't know if it's something that you're supposed to do necessarily.
I'm not sure.
I don't think so.
It's just a matter of who is helping you, who is advising you.
What is the team?
Yeah, not the team, but I'm always, you know, I'm someone that believe very much in collaboration
and the strength of working with other people.
And so, you know, there's so many people I can just reach out to and ask question that,
you know, it's difficult to say, but I believe I'm in good contact with some of the most
knowledgeable and talented people in that space regarding to art.
And you know, if I were to have this mandate and be able to manage as much funds by artwork
that I would very much involve them informally is what I meant, is that a lot of that is
informal.
That's part of the art world, I would say.
It's a relationship, reputation-based market in the world.
A lot of things going on goes in informal way.
So it will be mostly informal.
But yeah, I will be, will not just be me in my cave buying stuff on my own base.
Part of it is that, but a lot of it is trusting other people's expertise as well, asking question
and being curious.
That's fascinating.
Okay.
You know, it's something that I would say that what define a great collectors, and I
think every true collectors have this in common, it's curiosity.
Collectors are innately curious people.
They're willing to learn about things, learn about people.
They're very skin-be sensible or not, but they're always curious and open to new things.
So I think it's a big strength and no.
Got it.
You know, the many people, you always have something to talk about.
Got it.
Okay.
Merci, Brian.
Merci.
That was good.
So you and Greta will be managing this artwork, you as a collection manager, her as a curator,
like exhibitions and kind of the in-person things.
And then you will be bringing on board as advisors or you'll be seeking the advice of
all of these other people that you know throughout your career, many of them big names, it sounds
like, and some of them on the advisory board.
So yeah, I mean, even for private sale or commission, you know, if I know a big artist
is coming up to fellowship AI or to brand drops, I can ask, I can ask Alexander Kartegaard
or Justin Trimble to, you know, see if we can reserve some artwork for the DAO or things
like that.
You know, there's a lot of things goes in informal and personal relationship.
A lot of the artists don't mean everything they produce and so a lot of it goes to, you
know, sending DMs, casting with them, negotiating with them on a one-to-one basis.
But sometimes with, you know, the other intermediaries they're working with, for example, for Abazel
or for other big exhibition like that, it can make sense to collect works primary market
like that.
It's not necessarily going to be only secondary markets.
So primary market wise, it's often a relationship based sort of system, which I guess my connection
but also the connection of that will be very useful for.
Gotcha.
Okay.
And moving on into the NFTs themselves, how do you decide what NFTs are traded or sold
or kept?
A lot of it goes down to the value of them.
I guess the biggest asset I have a document that has, it's a bit outdated but I have sort
of an idea of what those, but for example, anything sandbox related to sandbox assets
and box land will not be sold, of course, because that's a very bad signal if we were
to sell that.
So those are going to be moved to the vault.
A large part of the collection value at the moment are UgoLab related assets.
And I believe that UgoLab related assets can be interesting for loan because you can have
a good loan to value system with it.
So they might not be sold but loaned, I guess, if so we can have liquidity from it, but not
necessarily selling them because in our regard, that's still to believe that if there is one
company in the PFP market that might make it is UgoLab for sure, given just the fact
that they own the largest, the biggest connection in the space.
But then there's a lot of things that I honestly consider as not worthless but just weird stuff.
I don't know, like they have stuff like the minted patchwork, Abu avatar, I don't know
what else, VFRIEND stuff, bold Ape derivative.
Is there a way we can look at this collection?
Is there a link to it?
I can show my screen up if you want to capture device, entire screens.
Sure.
UgoLab, yeah.
Up, up.
Doesn't work.
Try it, try again.
Otherwise I put it in the application of the collection.
If you have the link, put it in the, oh I see you did, you did put it in the chat.
Okay.
Give me a second.
But you will see that a lot of it are not worthless, but just not that interesting.
Some of them are just so worthless that it's not even worth the garrison.
Holy smokes.
86 pages.
All right.
86 pages.
Is it the next, yeah that's about 86 pages.
Yeah yeah it's 86 pages all right.
It's all the wallet concerns, so there's also this wallet, but also for custody based platform,
links to other platforms.
So NiftyGateaway for example, that are not related to the wallet, but are part of the
same collection.
There's also part of it that is on Tezos as well.
Part of it's on where?
On Tezos, the other blockchain, Tezos.
I don't think I know that.
You know object.com, it's a French blockchain, it's quite old.
Can you link me?
Yes.
Tezos.
Wow.
This, okay.
So you'll see that a lot of it is, you know, most of it I would like to sell, but the thing
is that when you have so many things, you got to do what you call a ventilation strategy,
right?
You're not going to floor everything at once because that's going to have a very bad impact.
And also part of the collectibles that are within, I think, where, you know, community
that were onboarded to the sandbox and are very much, you know, related to, I think like
World of Woman, I would refrain selling because just because of the history that exists between
World of Woman and sandbox in the sense that they collaborated.
She's also on the special counsel.
Also, but yeah, I don't have, you know, I'm not working for her, I'm working for the DAO,
so I don't really have.
Touche, Touche.
Touche, Brian, Touche.
I know her, I've met her and I've told her exactly that, that I might need to sell a
bunch of World of Woman.
Who knows?
But, you know, I just think that it would make sense still being involved with those
projects just because of the history that there is in it and the fact that those projects
are still very much involved with the sandbox.
So that would be a very bad signal to floor 50 World of Woman at once, you know.
And even the collection we're going to sell, we're obviously not going to sell all of them
at once, we're going to, you know, sell 10% of it, one month, 20% of it, the next month,
you know, we're going to ventilate that a bit.
So there's going to be a lot of operational burden, but it's for the best, you know, when
you're flooring things, you're not making the most of what you can have.
So yeah.
And Tezos has sent you a link as well.
Aside from saying that's one of the largest blockchain for NFT markets, especially art-centric
markets, you know, it's quite well known within the NFT space.
But because it's not an L2, but it's a very cheap sort of gas related to blockchain, which
and about the fact that you have artists from across the world being able to work here to
mint on it, but the price of it are very low.
So it might represent 2 or 3% of the value of the collection.
So it's not really the main focus.
Well, what about these?
A lot of these I'm seeing are sandbox related avatars like Snoop Dogg or this one right
here, Youngwoo collection.
Those are all sandbox specific.
Are you going to not sell those?
Are you looking to loan those out or what?
Well, I don't think you can get any loan for the sort of asset to be honest.
The asset you can get loan of is usually just, you know, big 101 over 80 or things like Borda
Ape and Crypto Peng, that's about it.
Like Care Bear avatars and the wild dance fight avatars, these are all sandbox specific
things.
Are you going to keep them?
I guess it needs to be decided.
I guess we can offer the part of it.
I think it's still very important to be, you know, supporting those.
But even though it doesn't really fit.
Look at all those parasol avatars.
Oh my gosh.
There's a lot of things.
That's a lot of parasol avatars.
So yeah, in a way that's a lot and that's not my main priority, but you know, I think
anything that is sort of linked to sandbox will not be my priority for sales.
I'm going to ventilate that very much.
I mean, at least not, that's not my priority for the next three months.
You know, if I renew my mandate for January 2025 to December 2025, might have a lot of
punch of it throughout the month, you know, but we're going to be very careful of not
nuking a flaw by the fact of selling everything, of course.
But yeah, my priority is not selling anything that is related to the sandbox because of,
I think that's a bad signal and that will be hurting the community.
So that's not really the objective there.
But also does it really make sense to have 500 parasol avatars?
I'm not sure, you know, that depends.
So that would be decided on case to case basis.
But surely a bit of it throughout the years, you know, as long as you're not doing it
doubly, which is throwing everything and nuking a flaw, you know, you can sell without being
too impactful of the flaw and the value of those assets on the long term.
So it's need to be, it's all about compromising and being cautious about what you're doing.
But yeah, anything I would say that, you know, not promising anything there, but anything
that is sort of related to the sandbox in a way or form or another is not my priority
for selling.
I've been much more inclined to selling things like cyber Kong, artifact.
Cyber Kong is also related to the sandbox.
I don't know if you know that.
I don't know how that is.
That's one of the things I've been trying to is like who's related to what.
I think a larger part of it is of course related to the sandbox itself, which, you know, the
fact that he bought that support the floor of this project already.
So it had had positive impact.
So gotcha.
It's not the point is that you want to, you want to start selling the things that aren't
related to the sandbox.
That's the most important part.
Okay.
Yeah.
I think that's the one nobody's going to complain about.
Yeah.
But, you know, to be fair, I mean, a lot of it is, it's not something I would personally
buy for my correction, to be honest.
But if it's really to the sandbox, I know that it pretty much bought it to support the
floor and support the launch of this project at some point.
So it has had a positive impact.
I think it would be fair to sort of say goodbye to those things after a few times or at least
selling part of it.
10% there, 5% here, you know, that's not too much of a problem for a floor.
But yeah, I'm not obviously not going to floor 500 parts into an avatar at once.
You know, I might say within the first quarter, let's sell 20 of them, for example.
I'm putting something out there.
Sure, sure.
Random, you know, but you know, I think it's important to keep those assets, but not being
overly exposed to them as well is important.
And all of these and all of these are currently in the possession of the sandbox.
And is it your own impression that all of these are going to be transferred to the DAO?
That's my impression.
Yes.
All right, there it is.
There's that number.
Four thousand fourteen thousand two hundred and thirty three.
Got it.
And there's been a few added since then.
But sometimes what I'm saying is that one vault, one operational wallet, but also a
lot of those things are not even worth the gas to be transferred.
So I think some of them is going to be listed from this wallet already.
And we're just going to as one transaction, the benefit of the sales throughout, because
if we're just transferring 14,000, you know, how much gas that's going to be ludicrous,
right?
So I think a lot of it, I don't want to spend the budget in just gas fees.
That doesn't make sense.
Good.
That is a good that's a smart thing for your platform, Ryan.
That's smart.
So that's why, like, even though it's still, you know, the operational part of it, there
was mostly like very open to suggestion and idea.
I think multi-seq wallet is interesting for operational side of things, but depends.
We'll see.
But yeah, a lot of that, I think I might just sell from that wallet and just send the benefit
of those crypto to the wallet of the DAO at some point.
I'm not the one that I don't have the private key of those wallets whatsoever.
And I will never have, I don't even have a fraction of the public key or multi-seq.
Most of what I'm going to do is that I'm set up operational documents where I'm going to
put very detailed order for people that have this bandwidth to be able to operate them,
especially which we have the benefit of having sandbox team, sandbox staff a bit across the
world covering almost all the time zone.
And you know, sometimes you have drop at 3am, 4am, not going to be up at 4am doing those
drop, right?
So we'll have people, I will put the order for buying the stuff if need be.
And anyone that have access to the wallet in the time zone will be able to operate that.
The operational side of things, we're still figuring out, and there's going to be a lot
of the first month is going to be about that.
It's about just like when you do any audits, it's evaluating the resources and the resources
and capacity that we have at our disposal, right?
I know the resources we have.
I don't know all the capacity we have because I'm not part of the sandbox team or anything.
So I'm not sure who's what, who's doing what, who's in which continents, etc.
So this will be a lot of work as set up operationally because you've said it 14,000, 18.
That's quite a lot.
But some things that are not even just worth wondering is that anything that is very sandbox,
sandbox, the 4,000 something, the sandbox that we have done, and the 14, yeah, it's
like almost 400,000.
Is that 4,000 sandbox related item will mostly be transferred to a vault, I think.
Also I'm open to suggestion how to manage that operationally from the sandbox member
and what do they think.
That's why I put the wallet within the SIP so people can look it up, see what's in there
and what they think might be worth dealing with, what we should avoid selling.
I'm open to take suggestions in that regard because it's all about supporting the community
and it makes sense to not liquidate things that have been to the benefit of sandbox at
some point, that are part of projects, things like that.
So I'm open to suggestion, but a lot of that I think is worth to be sell to buy more meaningful
artworks, to be honest.
But yeah, I'm quite open to suggestion in that regard because I'm not aware of every
project that are related to sandbox.
I've been very transparent about the fact that I'm not a landowner.
I don't have much sandbox asset, anything like that.
So I'm pretty ignorant or at least a stranger to a lot of what has happened to the sandbox
and project that we're dealing with and have worked with.
That's why I mentioned Cedric and Kong without knowing that at some point it's related to
the sandbox.
Yeah, they own a 12 by 12 I believe it is, but they've been involved in the sandbox for
quite a while as an avatar that you can own and play with in the sandbox.
So yeah, there's some pretty big names when it comes to that, like Everest and Cyber Syndicate
and Cyber Kongs.
There's a lot of them.
But that's also where sometimes personal connection and network can help.
If we're reaching out to those projects, asking them if they want to buy back those things
because that would be more useful for them to buy them back themselves, even if we get
less E from it, but that less is done in a much better way, I guess, at least in terms
of mutual trust.
Sometimes we can be dealing with other DAOs if there's DAOs or PFP that might be interesting
in swapping artwork for PFP, stuff like that.
There's many ways you can go about things without necessarily throwing them.
That's what I've mentioned through other mentioned learning, but it's mostly swapping and private
deals with builders, projects themselves, all the DAOs.
I think those are all possibilities that I think I could consider.
Some of them take more work than others, but if it's for the best, I think it might be
worth sometimes swapping things rather than selling them.
It might be worth sometimes to reach private deals with projects that are concerned by
that or projects that have a relationship with sandbox already.
It depends on what the community wants.
Okay, I think you've laid it out pretty clearly.
Thank you for that.
That makes sense.
What is the connection to...
You mentioned you linked corporate art collection and it shows the top 40 collections in the
world.
What is your connection or the SIFS connection to that?
That was what I was saying to you about Pernod Ricard before that.
It's just the idea of what's the benefit of having an art collection as a business.
What's...
Okay.
What was that word?
I keep messing it up.
Pernod Ricard?
Pernod Ricard.
Yeah, it's a very difficult word to say, but it's...
Type it out to me in Discord.
Yeah.
Pernod Ricard is an alcoholic beverage from the south of France that we call...
Oh, okay.
It's mixed with water, et cetera.
But I took this example because they set up the Primares en Dessin, which is very important
in the contemporary art world.
Just to take an example of saying, there's been successful corporate art collection and
usually having those collections have a lot of benefit down the line to being recognized
as a business, being able to do lobbyism to all the cultural industry and stuff like that.
If the sandbox were to build one of the most prominent art collection in French business,
the chances are that we'll be able to be more closer to the Ministry of Culture in France.
We'll be able to get more institutional reconnection at some point.
Oh, I see.
I see.
Okay.
Got it.
So it's mostly used as a lobbyist system, to be honest.
But I think that's the right word for it, but in spirit, that's what it is.
Provenance.
Yeah.
Got it.
It's what is a bit used in any regard, but yeah, it's pretty much about that.
That's why I've just linked it to other examples because when I've talked about it with Geraldine
from Sunbox, they were saying, oh, do you have any other example of that?
And so I saw this article that was listing 40 of them, so I was like, okay, you might
as well.
And I got.
My French is terrible.
Oh, don't worry.
It's very the worst business I could have picked up from the most mentioned thing.
But I guess I use them because they did a bunch of panels and conferences around digital
art and NFT before they work with a French artist called Niel Belouf, which is represented
by a big gallery in France called Kamel Menour.
That is pretty much like this big, big gallery in France, this Templon, Pérotard and Kamel
Menour.
And yeah.
So, yes.
Gotcha.
I'm not going to go into the whole story with that, so that's why I've mentioned this specifically,
but I realize now that if you're not into the art world, you don't really know what
I'm talking about.
I have no idea, Brian.
No idea.
It's okay.
And it's very specific to the art on top of that.
Which just to give some example of that and say is that, are the fact that other business
own art connection and it does make sense for Sunbox to do as well.
Got it.
So, it makes sense corporate art collections helping to build that vision that Seb has
said very frequently, which is he wants Sandbox to be the cultural capital of the metaverse
and he believes that one of the reasons why that's so important to him is because he believes
that organizations that last and that are powerful and that are widely used is because
they help build on that cultural capital, that social capital.
And you'd like to curate that to help improve the Sandbox's standing in its corporate art
collection.
Okay.
I couldn't say that better myself.
So something that really confused me in the SIP and the solution proposed and I'll move
it down here so people can see what I'm referring to.
The solution proposed, it starts talking about unique artwork one of one and then unique
artwork of a series one of one of X and then starts talking about deceased artists.
Can you help?
What does that mean?
Yeah, but what is all that in relation to each other and one of one and one of one of
X and I don't understand.
You don't know this classification?
You're talking to a gamer, someone who's like a business person.
I have nothing.
I know nothing about the art world and I'm willing to say that most of the Sandbox doesn't
either the Sand Fam.
So one of one refer to unique artwork that exists in one edition.
It's the most like Mona Lisa.
This is a it's difficult to say to take it like that.
I guess.
Let me find an example for that.
The Mona Lisa in a way, if we go into details, not really, but for the common knowledge,
let's say yes, it's a unique art.
Thank you.
That only exists in one format, even though people think it exists in other ways, but
you know, it doesn't matter.
There's only one Mona Lisa and that's one of one.
Okay.
Photograph, for example, when you take a photography and you print it, you can print
it as an edition, right?
So it's a one out of 31 out of 50, 100, 1000.
This is not a one on one anymore.
One on one is a very, I guess, quite a specific to NFTs, but exists in painting pretty much
a painter usually produce one on one artwork because it's just too much of a hassle to
paint the exact same painting.
It's not very interesting.
Oh, okay.
I see.
So it's about the number of editions.
So one on one is a unique artwork and a one on one of X is what we call a unique artwork
in the series.
So any art blocks project, generative art project is a one on one of X.
If you take a Jackson Pollock, for example, Pollock, you know, he used what we call a
pendulum to paint his painting with dripping.
Yeah, I've seen those TikToks.
Someone loads up a paint can and like, yeah, okay.
It's a bucket.
It's technically mathematical, right?
Because pendulum depends on the rotation of the earth and the bunch of other things.
Sure, physics and all that.
So it's the same technique that produce works in series.
So these different things are works in series.
It's the same series.
It's all unique painting, but part of the same series, right?
And generative art project like Squiggles or even the CryptoPunk are one on one of X,
which means that they are made from the same algorithm, but all unique artwork from the
same collection.
So it's unique, but also there's exists other ones that are unique as well.
So you know, every CryptoPunk is unique, but this sort of look like, you know, looks similar
in a way, right?
It's part of the same collection.
So one on one of X is just a terminology to say unique artwork in a series.
And that's true for mostly generative art.
You would have that for a few photography project, but that's rare.
And more recently project like brain drops in AI are one on one of X projects.
So this is a category that in art is interested in.
Why?
Because there's a large number which make it so that it's quite liquid.
And there is usually enough transaction so you can easily tell how much it's worth, right?
When you have a Squiggles setting every day, you sort of have a notion of how much a Squiggle
is worth because you can say, well, there's one that sold yesterday.
Of course, there's notion of variety that comes through it sometimes, but you know,
it pretty much tells you a Squiggle is worth $13,000 for the last few years.
When it's about unique artwork or, you know, others work in other series, when you haven't
had the sales in a year, in three months, when it's a very different works from what
another you can compare, it's quite difficult to come up with estimates.
It was a bit, the big part of the job I was doing at Sotheby's was producing estimate
for the work and it's just a very difficult process because you have to compare value
in E, value in Fiat, certain years that are worth more than others and other factors that
are both qualitative and quantitative.
So it's not all mathematical, but it's just part of what does the valuation of an artwork.
So 101 and 101 of X is just terminology for unique artwork, edition or unique artwork
in a series.
And when I'm saying they seize artists, this might be hard because you might say, oh, most
NFT artists are alive, right?
Well, there's actually a bunch that are dead and are still very interesting, namely Vera
Molnar, the proto-generative artist that released the project with Sotheby's.
She died last year at 101 years old.
There was Herbert W. Frank, who was well a pioneer of generative art, died two years
ago at 81 that did a project.
Frank Stella as well, they did a project with Air in the US, NFT project and died I think
a few months ago.
And you have also in your space, one of my favorite artists, Alotamony, that did a few
stuff in the sandbox, but that was mostly known as a big voxel architect in crypto voxel,
did die two years ago.
And so I just wanted to be broad in the sense of if we give more data on specific things,
I just wanted to cover all the bases and be like, you know, I'm open to very various different
typology of work, depending on the strategy.
And you know, I was going to say living and emerging artists, and I thought, oh, there's
a bunch of artists that did die and that are still very interesting to integrate within
the collection.
So I'm just to cover all the bases I've put living and deceased artists.
Yeah, that was just the reason.
It was for the sake of covering all of my bases.
Okay.
Got it.
No, makes sense.
So let's move on down to risk analysis.
Does going from well known profile pictures to independent artists means that we'll have
less money, less profits, it'll be worth less value.
Well, I believe it's the opposite, actually, I mean, to be to to be fair, the way you make
money on collectibles project and PFP avatar is to be early, early investor units.
And so to have an interesting entry point, which is not really the case anymore with
collectibles.
Like if we were to buy more collectibles, let's say we want to buy a crypto bank because
there's not a crypto bank in the collection.
Is it worth it?
I'm not sure.
It's been the crypto bank worth even though it's fluctuated in value from 50 to 30, it
pretty much remained within your 100k, 120k in fiat value for the last few years.
It's been down the floor in if I've been down, but the floor in fiat has been quite stable.
So if we were to buy one now, you know, I don't know if it's going to worth more than
150k the next three years, obviously, crypto bank were very much worth to buy to be bought
when they were three, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 euros.
Yes, that was they were worth buying back then.
But I have a few that I have just on my phone.
I couldn't share this document because it's it's under NDA.
But what I have as an example is that a little citation from Great Capital.
So they did some sort of audits of the last few years value where if I've lost 26% of
value in USD was like last year, generative us was down 15%, AIR was down 18%.
The art side of things were generally down 20%, whereas the collectible market was down
40%.
And so it is it tends to to as for a contracted market in the bear market, which people are
arguing if we are in bull market or bear market, why they're still very much in bear market.
I believe that, you know, art is more resilient than PFP and the profitability of it.
When you're scouting for emerging artists is much more interesting.
I mean, I can talk from experience.
I had the chance to be an early investor in NFTs as soon as in 2019.
But in 2020, you know, the things that brought me the most return were art buy.
I was very lucky because I managed to get like people's for $1 on drop.
So you know, this investment on $1 on the people, ridiculous.
It's worth 80 now and the average 70 maybe.
So art is not necessarily a bad investments can be a great investment when you're lucky
sometimes and when you have some flair and some some eyes that depends, a vision at least.
So it's difficult to put a definitive answer to it.
It's for sure less, you know, if you want to make money with PFP, if you want to blur
farm blast farming and stuff like that, it's quite intense operationally.
You have to do a lot of transaction.
And one of the things we're quite limited on when you have a connection that is under
the custody of a DAO is that you want to limit the number of people that have access to this
wallet.
And this is more safe, but it's also more operationally a burden.
And so if you want to make I don't think we have the operational capacity to honestly
be able to make banks with PFP in the way that you're supposed to do it if you want
to make banks with it.
So it seems much more smart to sort of limit the number of assets.
I think like we're going to go from 14,000 assets to you know, I'm targeting something
like 300 at most would be much more manageable on the long term.
From 14,200 to 300.
Yeah.
So that's about that, like our collection doesn't need to be huge.
When it becomes too big, it's just an accumulation.
So I want to refocus it with the makes, but some of the purchase I want to do might be
10 if plus.
And those assets, I think could bring interesting results on the midterm.
Like Jopies, for example, I've had pretty interesting sales.
Other artists like that, but it's it will be much more manageable because then the question
is the number of time going to take is just tenfold more important.
So when this collection will be built up and like, you know, the devil might want to sell
it at some point.
I think it would be much more easier to liquidate 300 assets that are worth 10 if, 5 if, several
if each at least, then liquidating 14,000 assets that are in 0.1, 0.00, stuff like that.
Because then the gas is really making the difference.
So it's just a different strategy from, you know, with more concentration with a limited
number of assets.
I don't know if I can use an analogy from it.
I get what you're saying.
I think it's clear.
If you go from 14,000 to 300, it saves on not only gas fees, but you have a meaningful
collection that you can manage.
Whereas at 14,000, it's just it's all over the place.
At any point in time, you can lose track of assets and because it's too many, too many
thousands.
And also, I mean, to make banks and just make money of profitability out of PFP, it just
it requires such a big number of transaction that I don't even think it's implementable
within the system that exists for this collection with the custody.
So it would be possible, let's say if we have one very big gambler, the gen with immense
talents and we say, oh, take the private keys and you know, have funds and makes money.
I'm sure someone could make that and manage that.
But then the risk of it is huge because anyone can just run with the bank.
So you know, what I mean is that it's not impossible, but I just think that we don't
really have the resources and capacity and the basis of a new strategy is to adapt it
to the resources and capacity that is at disposal.
And yeah, I cannot know we're not going to make that make sense.
Yeah, but with safety in mind, with safety in mind, risk management and with the capacity
that you have.
Okay.
Good.
Well, that that was very good to know what your vision is.
I think that's another thing you should emphasize is that plan is I don't think that is clearly
understood here.
There's a lot of words in this thing in the SIP.
Most of it is is good to know but doesn't really give me a sense of what your plan is
until I get down to the 90 day plan, which is one to one to go over next is that 90 day
plan you have going from collection cataloging in September to loaning and selling before
October, then your first wave of acquisitions before November.
And then last would be before December is AMA is reporting results and that sort of
stuff.
Yeah, I mean, when I had that in the template, I was a bit iffy about it because a lot of
the things we're going to be actually doing is a lot of everything in the same time.
Like doesn't make sense to not work on the catalog until December because it's you have
it save you much more time to do it when you buy it because you have the ideas much more
clearer.
But for the sake of is ability and understanding, we sort of match this template.
But to reality of the job is much more complex and you have to do a bit of everything same
times.
One of the reasons everything is not that clear is because part of the job is also to
make that plan.
And I've put up a bit of time making this proposal, etc.
It's very unusual for me to ask to be elected for a job.
I just know deal with private collectors directly. So even as a French guy putting out all their money
Emuneration is a very odd experience to me
because you know, we have a lot of time with money on money and stuff like that, so
It's to be adapted to the Liz ability of it
but the truth is is that a lot of it is we have to do in the same times and
I cannot dedicate like
20 hours of my week to put up a very detailed plans is I don't know if I will be able to implement
Even if itself that might use for the dough is like it's something that you know as a curator
I've always been very adamant to not work for free and that's a project
That's a problem that many of the intermediate we have enough space it really create those and have them work for free
And that just is something that doesn't benefit anyone
And so yeah, I mean, you know
To be transparent, I'm not willing to put 35 hours of my week just because first I don't have that time and second because I'm not putting all that
Times invested if I'm not sure to be paid for it to be honest
So that's why how much time will you be devoting if this super to go through you get hired?
How much time are you going to be devoting? I've sort of estimated that we would it would take me
Somewhere between four to six day a month
Four to six days a month
Yeah, which every day would be like, you know stand our nine hour day day pretty much
But usually for collection management, you're sort of bidding it by a to daily at sort of the daily price
Yeah, so I'm gonna take a specific day because I'm already getting
two days a week to outperish my startup and
Then I have also all my exhibition project that I'm working on for
To five more bases, but that can take me, you know when exhibition is running
It's a full week that I cannot, you know have so yeah, it's not gonna be yeah
So the estimate is four to six day a month pretty much and and you think four to six days a month you
you believe that that is going to be enough to go through the plan of
Cataloging and selling and acquisitions and reporting
Yes, because we do have the operational team of this home book, so I just have to put all those
Oh, you meant they can't follow you through
But I'm not gonna be the one behind the computer and putting beads on the fancy. So in that regard
Yeah, it's gonna be sufficient. I'm most likely gonna do extra. Well, I'm already pretty confident about it
We'll see about the operational side of things
But yeah
I think for the first few months where we have to set up a lot of system, etc. You know, it's gonna be full days work and
That I need to be only you know fully focused on
And for this is enough even just if one mouth
But first because a lot of it I've already sort of have in my mind
You have a listing of artists of thousands of artists have listing of people to get in touch with
I got a contact with a
Lot of people I can that's no a lot of dust preliminary work is already done in a way
but it's come down to experience and skills, but but yeah, that's what I've sort of you know
Estimated if it's more it's gonna be more
And and the budget I guess we're gonna we'll see how we deal with the budget
But you know, I guess if it's if it's over time and I realize
Doesn't take me six day a month. It takes me two days
Doesn't take me six day a month. It takes me ten days
Then I would adapt for the next step
If this one happened to to adapt just more more budget because I need more workload
But sorry, I've been to the budget on the estimation of my workload at some point. Yeah, and I see that the
Estimation of your budget was 30,000 pounds for four months
Yes, so that include the exhibition right so the exhibition itself already have some invoicing
But you know if you want to do it in Paris with a gallery that already has screens
We can get some other people so I get preferred preferable rates
But you know, you're somewhere around 15k a week at the very list and that's like the cheapest option
So so 15k week to do exhibitions in Paris
Yes, it's spaces are very expensive. But then you know, there is trick to go around and stuff
But it's not even really enough to even do two exhibitions
No, no, no, there will not be a I think once per quarter would be more than enough
I do believe that you know grid are true out there the fact that it's owned by Sebastian would most likely, you know
I guess if they can give us for free then the cost will just be FNB and
Communication and a few like design stuff you might need and a few salaries here and there
but yeah, the document like that, but yeah, it's
usually like the art gallery
Their rates is like four thousand a day
So, yeah, the rate is if you were to rent the art gallery from 8 a.m. To 11 p.m
Which is usually the times when you have an opening day. It will cost you around
40000 euros before tax
So yeah, that just crammed up very fast
So that's why especially every exhibition project is different if you're doing for a fair
If you're doing in Paris in London or Taipei, it's very different. So I was thinking that
if we were to do
Exhibition more often it would go through its own sit projects
Because an exhibition anyways takes about three months to organize
In terms of just things you have to work on contract and stuff that depends on if you're doing with artists in consigning
I mean, it's a lot of details that I brush off there, but it's it's several month of work
So it can go through a project because that doesn't impact too much the timeline
And budget might need to be adaptable if if you want to be at a THC
We want to be at the meta last minutes or for specific project where we have to run the red out of booth
You know an exhibition can cost from five thousand to five million euros depends on what you're doing
So
It's thirty thousand pounds fifteen thousand would be for one one exhibition and the rest of will go to the team
Yeah, pretty much my daily rate is somewhere around one thousand euros a day
Before tax to be entirely transparent with you whereas Greeda
It's a bit less because she's not doing it for a fair amount of money
It's a bit less because she's not doing the collection management part in the producing of a lot of those documents
She's more around six hundred six hundred euros a day
Yeah, that's about that
Okay
And so yours is about a thousand bucks a day Greed is a little bit less than that and fifteen thousand
It would go to an at least one exhibition
Yeah, I'm sure I could find some deals for this initiative to make it happen in a more interesting way at least a more cheapest way
but
You know
The space is just one expense, right?
When you're doing exhibition you have to rent out a truck bring some stuff. Sometimes you have to buy synotropic elements
Even the things you know, if you write a text if you want to print out that text and do it to the wall
That's usually a couple hundred of euros. You know, I mean so many
Done my cost but even when I'm producing my own shows
It usually costs me aside from the renting of the place somewhere around 10k for screens and graphic element
printing
Invitational, you know that and and and yeah, that's all of all of my pocket
And so and then there's the renting of the space and stuff like that
For an FTP is for example, he costed me ten more than ten thousand euro
Without the booth so and we were one of the most cheapest
tight budget one of the things we do for example is renting rather than renting screens
We do one very cheeky thing is that we buy the screens and within the European digital acts of 20 something
Whichever you buy online in European country if you're not satisfied you can be reimbursed within 15 days
So rather than renting screens for two weeks, which will cost us three thousand euros
I just buy 10k worth of screens and bring them back to the shop within 15 days to be reimbursed
Got it. Okay, I saved the renting cause it's a bit of a cheeky process is very much
If you have friends that did rave parties or that our musician
They often do that rather than renting out the gear they buy it and sort of bring it back to the shop to be reimbursed
Treasury wise it seems like you have a big hole of 15,000 for a while, but then you get reimbursed within 15 days as well
but yeah, there's way to save money and cut corners, but uh, that's a bit of a french facility, but uh
Yeah, that's a lot. That's one of the reasons why I wasn't sure if we're gonna win we were going to include it within the budget because
those projects
Depending on the location the city
Can be very different projects and different budgets. So this yeah, I mean I think they're gonna be they're on sip
later on
But just because I had some invoicing from gridar for the art gallery. I think that you know, it was important to put it in there
first part
Okay
Yeah, it's quite open to feedback on that regard as well
one more question before we go back to you and I and we
Look at closing. What is the sandbox digital art manifesto?
And what how is it connected to the sip?
Oh, did we freeze again?
Oh, no
Oh, we froze
Okay. So while we get back on frozen
Wow
This was unexpected in a good way. This was definitely unexpected in a good way
I did not I did not gather this was a nomination sip and it's clear that he
Has deep expertise in this field. So if there were someone to manage the digital art portfolio
Do you agree?
Do you agree with what he's saying?
That that he wants to expand the the focus
All right, focus the the portfolio from 14 000 things to much more refined things that apply directly to the sandbox
That really talks about how we are the cultural capital of the metaverse. That is what brian is looking to do here
and
Are we back yet brian?
Yeah, okay. Great. So we're just kind of rehashing a little bit what what I had learned so far. So what I asked was is um,
What is the sandbox digital art manifesto and how is it connected to the sip?
So the sandbox digital art manifesto was a text written by grida. I believe it was all
Planned for
Another sip that never were submitted
Uh, and it's just the idea of putting you know to have a thesis around the collection and just
I guess
saying
What is the
saying what is it that we all agree on like what is a manifesto manifesto is just a
document with a bunch of academic reference
that
Meant to be some sort of a constitution, right? And so manifesto is meant to be some sort of constitution of
The project but it's just an annex document that was meant for another thing. It was just to say that
you know those things can be
academically justified and that there is a lot of thought that goes into it that can be
You know reference and uh
And and peer reviewed
Uh, so yeah, this manifesto I guess will tend to evolve but it was just a document from a previous sip of grida
That I think was relevant to that sip. Uh, and was interesting to include as an annex
It's not part of the main sip just an annex which is just to say, hey, there's already a be a there's already
Has been a bunch of works made around those uh idea and here's what i've been made so far
Okay, so down here at the bottom it says
Sandbox acknowledges the artistic and historical weight
Our goal is to integrate digital art into mainstream cultures for artists collectors institutions galleries brands
global audiences this involves creating a culture of free consumption
And sharing of digital art. What does culture of free consumption mean?
I didn't write the text. I couldn't tell
Um sounds a bit odd
That but uh, I think it's it refers to you you artists you artists in your phrases
I think I think it does if I were to do a free interpretation of it
I believe it refers to the notion of gatekeeping
Which is very much important in the art world where else you sort of limit
The people if you can be a billionaire if you knock up at the at the big gallery and want to buy the biggest artists
They have in this gallery. You're not going to be able to do so
Uh, they are selecting where they're selling to uh, and you often sometimes have to buy another artist before being able to buy this
Uh main artist so there's a lot of gatekeeping
Exclusivity process and I think it just referred to the notion of
you know
blockchain and the nft market being decentralized, uh
Disintermediated, uh all of that
Okay
I mean it is open
for public
Viewing okay, and then to this end we plan to acquire nfts with cultural
Social historical scientific and aesthetic significance that that's in line with what you've been telling me so far
And enhanced digital arts popularity through exhibitions and educational initiatives. I didn't hear you talk much about educational initiatives. Did you have any planned?
Um, so that was mostly the big part of what grida was doing for previous sift. It was a very big incentive on education
Uh, so bear in mind this document was produced for another sift that was
Made by grida, but sort related to the dow as well and the collection in a way
Uh, but yeah, I know a large part of when you're producing a catalog for example, the catalog we're going to produce
At the end of each quarter
Uh is an educational tool in a way it will teach I guess people about
medium of art technique, uh thematic
Notion and aesthetic so it's a it's it's actually doing it is quite educational in a way as well like
We're talking about notion of the art world that you might not be very familiar with
Uh, this is you know, I guess something that would be quite educational in a way
So even just talking about this topic in providing resources that the sandbox dow members can refer to
And feel connected with
Uh will have an educational benefits, uh, and this educational benefit as well is is quite interesting for
For just uh people that is outside the web tree. Uh, you know, it's uh, one of the the things i'm doing is i've mentioned art
Hirsch we're doing exhibition across the world on billboards
um
Most of that we're doing we're not getting paid for
the idea of what we're doing that is
we
participate to building up
The visual culture of the next generation
If you were if you were growing up commuting to school and seeing digital art on daily bases on billboards
rather than ads for mcdonald's or whatever
You might have been more sensible to new aesthetic especially aesthetic that are developed on the internet and and by digital artists
Because it's very specific like glitch art for example is an aesthetic that is
quite difficult to connect with when you've never been
Uh exposed to it
You just refer it as a visual bug
as trash has to be disregarded whereas
it can be an aesthetic in a movement that
Is appealing and could reach your sensibility
There is connected bias, you know, the more you see something the more you tend to like it
so education is also about exposure and
We have to expose as many people
to that as possible
Uh, so and I think that could lead to interesting externalities in consequences
Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's a bit of the bias and connected bias that exists, you know, so the educational part the only thing of
having people reflecting on
Having an art collection for the dao
Uh thinking of thematic that are explored perhaps visiting the exhibition. We're gonna set up
Reading the catalog we're gonna make
Might participate to the art education. Uh, and that will be I guess very much profitable for their
Social capital but also cultural capitals on the long way, you know
That's something that I always say, you know, it's great to talk about I guess, you know cryptos and metaverse and ft's at the dinner
Uh, but it's always more exciting to talk about art. I guess in my in my area
Um and in your world, yeah
Yeah, well, you know
I've been with with degen and what people you can talk
A bunch about you know, this coin's going up and this one goes this one's going down
Uh, but that doesn't make the most interesting dinner usually
It doesn't who you have dinner with brian because if you had dinner with me, that'd be great
I love that
It depends but you know even in video games
The retracing we could talk about for tracing in the technique being video games, but then but doom and stuff like that
But the cultural and the video editor and the the director of the library and the video game and the artistry that goes into it is
To me the most interesting part of video games for example
Uh, even technique. I mean technique are interesting procedural generation stuff like that super great, but
It's it's technique is here to serve a purpose and to serve the aesthetic you need to serve the art
So I think it's uh, you know, it's it it is to my
My sense a bit more of an interesting discussion
But what I mean by that is to be educated you need to be exposed to sort of things and art
The main problem with art is that it's behind huge gates. It's to see art. We need to go to the museum
You just go to the gallery
Usually it's quite an intimidating experiences that most people are not willing to do
So you need to almost shove it up to the point where you can't do it
So you need to almost shove it up to their face in a way that you have to make it
So it's the most accessible way to for them to be accessed to to be exposed to those other things and the more they expose to
Art, even if they don't get it, even if they're not interested by it at first
After a while, you know
Seeds you can sow the seeds that you've planted
Uh, and so it's all about sowing seeds, uh, and and hopefully, uh, you know, some of them will flourish and bloom
Uh in many, you know fantastic way, but we never know
Uh, it just yeah the educational part of it. I think is like we could
sort of
Pedal back to it just expose people to it and just have people think about it in a way in any way it's form
Also, it possible it can be uh panels during exhibition. It can be uh, yeah tickles threads about the artist that
Dao is collecting
Uh, there's many ways to produce content and cultural content and educational content is a bit of the same thing to me
So I think in that regard this will be educational
But it was the main focus of the original sip
I've kept it i've kept our text as is because I I will not edit anyone works without the permission
And I didn't have the time for to rework it
So I just included it with indianx because I think that's the type of document people would be
You know confronted to when we do a quarterly, uh catalogue for example
And there's been you know references like welter benjamin
Work that i'll show a few people read it like that with my king
Oh, who's that guy and what did he write about and they might google it they might check it out and they might learn something who knows?
Uh, so so yeah, that's just was an example of what sort of document we might produce
That's why I put it in indianx
Gotcha. Thank you
Thank you. And also I I was able to access your response when you when you attach to the
Catalogue under expo english. I wasn't able to access that
Um, but
That's okay
That's where it should be a
Notably accessible links, but yeah, it said I needed to request access but uh other than that
Thank you. Uh, let's go to do you have anything for us?
Is there anything you'd like to go over or talk about before we close?
Uh, you know, I guess the the biggest
Worry I have about that sip is not reaching the quorum. Uh, and I think a lot of it has to do with
Being understood and understand and that people understand what what this is objective. So
I guess from your experience. I'm just curious. So what do you think is needed to
Needed to reach that quorum and to be sure that we even if it's for a negative response, but to at least have people
engage and
And and willing to participate to the discussion
That is a part of this
Which are I guess two people that are very much involved in every sip and feeding back
So I would very very happy to be able to provide, you know answer to other people question if they are
willing to ask them
Yeah, there there are two three things that come to mind immediately one is bulls on the block on saturday
So that was maybe a few hours ago bulls on the block every saturday. They get together. They're a delegation
I just interviewed them, uh a few days ago when I also interviewed seb
and
They represent at least over 100 000 voting power
So i'll i'll link them to you every saturday. They're on twitter space
Also the mochaverse hall also known as united grand halls on monday nights
Which I think for europe is it might be a little early
I think let's let's do world time buddy real fast
Uh, so for uran, uh, cst, right france
So I think they're doing it at 6 pm now
Is it 6 pm or 9 pm so for you that would be am
So that that might be a little tough, but if you could make it at least one time
when
When your sip goes for vote, I think that'll help you out big time because mochaverse is has a lot of voting power
and
Yep, so i'll i'll link that to you as well. That's that'll be
On mondays
And then uh reaching out to mocha cn, which is the chinese community within the mochaverse
I'll give you their twitter handle. They have a huge they're separate from mochaverse halls on monday. They have a huge voting
Power within the sandbox
So it would be very helpful for you to reach them
and then
Maybe i'll give you pepe's handle the voxel gem
He recently put together a list of people he contacted. Maybe he will be willing to share that with you
Or maybe it might be a little out of date because it was with his sip for magic palette
But he might might be willing to share that with you to where you can also reach out
to two different people
That's the best that we have
We might be able to link you up with coffee with captain, which is a daily
A twitter space show
They sometimes cover sandbox, but not all the time, but they have a very large viewership large audience
Those are the only things that I can think of right now
Because the sandbox dao the san fam is not well organized so it's not like you can only go to this place and you'll reach everyone
It's like you have to hit all these little little 14 000 different things right the sum of its parts that we're talking about
That is the san fam right now. It's not one size fits all it's not this will reach everything. It's a lot of itty bitty little avenues
And through that you reach quorum so we're still working on that as a as a new dao
That's the best advice I can offer you that's one of the reasons why I had you come on this show
Because I know that when I put this in my podcast for rss for spotify for youtube
I'm going to be blasted out to all sorts of different places so that they can get it an idea of what it is that you're about
and
Uh, that's the best that we can do right now
Because i've been
You know, I don't know why i'm not in the deep thought but uh
I think it's because i've joined it left it and now I cannot join it anymore
Uh, is it worth I mean it's a lot of the discussion happening on this card even though not really there
It's another one of those. That's one of the avenues. It would be worth it for you to go on there and to go to the dao discussion
Forum, uh, you're not a landowner. So you won't have access to the landowner chat
That's really who you should connect with but I will already post our video in there
So you you'll have access to that through me, which I will post. Okay, so that that's and and you can always get in touch with
The sandbox team like pepe and not heavy remy and remy bonpar
The sebastian will will easily connect you to that sort of people
That that this core channel is very active. So we talk all the time in there and when I post our
our
interview later on either today or tomorrow whenever I can get to it
Then they'll see that
But it's it's the constant
touching it's the constant
exchanges
That that will really help you win quorum
It's it's reaching out to all these different people that pepe might have access to mocha cn the mocha verse halls and
BOTBs and then through some measure of luck. Ha ha ha enough people see it and they vote in the snapshot
That's what matters is getting them to see it because once they see it and they understand your nomination and they understand your details and they'll be like, oh
Okay, then I can decide whether or not I really believe in your your vision and your goal
so
It's not a great answer brian. We're still very new
We're still not even two months old really
That's the best
New process for me as well. You know, i've never been
that much involved with
Yeah, one of the things I do my job is that I don't have to give you know, I often don't really have to
Report to anyone and with things like so when you're in your gallery, you're taking your own risk
You're dealing with things that happens and and yeah, which you know, it's not just
Me to go through those sips and stuff, but I understand the point of view
And I understand the reason behind it
Yeah, it just yeah, i'm always you know, whenever I so is so it's like, uh, it's always frustrating to have your effort goes to
To waste which I don't I was sort of trying to manage a balance between how much I can dedicate time dedicate time to
Support the sift as well as my other project. So so yeah, it's a bit of a challenge
If you're gonna have access to the right people so I can make the most of my time
That is very much interesting for me. Yeah
Well, I definitely understand the so for me in my voting
I wasn't sure i was going to vote for this until you and I spoke and then you explained to me what it is
and the thing that I think convinced me that that I would vote yes to is
Even though you can only spend five or so days on it
Your plan is to refocus on the things that you can do
Is to refocus a fourteen thousand down to a smaller number that you can manage and then build provenance on
And what really convinced me is when you said that
You weren't just going to sell everything you weren't just going to
sell all the sandbox things
And you were willing to learn and take feedback from like cyber congs very important to the sandbox
It's been involved for a long time and and maybe maybe that's not
Selling all of it or maybe loaning it or whatever your decision is there
If you are the curator, but the but you're you're going to take a more reasonable approach to it
And and you're not just looking to sell it all and then restart anew
It's there's a there's a logic behind it and as we've spoken you've clearly laid out your expertise
You've been doing this for a while. You understand
You know the people behind it. You have the right connections
connections and to me that spells out a
A reasonable approach to something that I wouldn't have considered a problem
Ryan but from your point of view you have a much more
Experience point of view than I in the art world and you see this as an issue that you would like to help solve
All right
You have my support Ryan. You have when you when you do it like that. I'm a business person
So when I hear fourteen thousand things go down to 300 i'm like why?
Why is that happening? But then you explained why that needs to happen in your opinion why that is?
Something that it would help the sandbox and not hurt it and that
I'd have convinced me
That's nice. Well, i'm sure we try to I don't know if we can update the draft as it is. I might change a few words from
Back here and there, but you should be able to
Yeah, you should be able to like reach out to the Geraldine and and Cyril
And let them and let them know that
based on what you've what you've
Recently learned I would like to change it to this because it more clearly communicates and you and you should mention that
If you agree with me that
if
The way it's described right now doesn't really explain what it is you're asking for in the same way that
When I first read it, I thought you were accepting like
I thought you were talking about the dow collection and like you are proving the dow collection and I wasn't sure
But now I get it. Okay
Yeah, I didn't know I didn't know
Yeah, okay. Yeah, but right now it makes it looks like
If you could show a few of your notes so I can just take a yeah, I sure will i'll respond back in that that discourse forum
And and make it really clear what it is that I recommend. It's just my opinion though
So because you know your reaction a title is different
People stop most I know most people just gonna read the title. So right. They're gonna read the title and they're gonna think mandate
That's a weird word
Dow collection management. I don't know what that means collection management of what and then they go in they read nfts
They read artwork. They read 30 000 pounds. They read a 90 day plan
Something about 14 000 assets and and most of my profile pictures
But most of us know that board 8 yacht club is worth a lot of money
So why would you trade that sort of stuff not realizing that 14 000 profile picture doesn't mean 14 000 board 8 yacht clubs
It means a bunch of little stuff worth less than 0.1
ETH and how you'd like to consolidate that to build a theme that says something about the sandbox collection
That makes sense
to me
So anyways, you're right. There was a main worry and a lot of it has to go down to the fact that we didn't have much time to work on that
Yes, so we all wanted to push it for some reason we wanted to push it
As soon as possible because it's gonna end anyway the 31 of december
I don't know why for some reason they wanted to do it
For I guess accountability issue from 1st january to 31 of december
So even if I wanted to and say oh, let's do it for a year from now from september to next september
I was not able to so we wanted to push that as soon as possible so we can have at least
A full quarter to dedicate to it
So in that regard we had to push it as soon as possible because there is two week voting process two weeks two weeks down
And so we're very we're coming up september very fast. Okay, so makes sense
Well
Ryan
Mercè bucu
That was
That was really really fun and interesting to talk to you learn about your past
And grida's role and what your plan is for the the curation of the sandbox's
14,000
artwork collection and to something that makes sense for the sandbox and helps us become the cultural
Capital of the metaverse, which is what's which is what sev has been saying this whole time. So
So understood
Thank you
um
Yeah, I have a lot of future episodes coming up
I think the next one i'm going to be a another reveal with pepe from the magic palette
So we're going to actually use the magic palette to create
In game maker, so, um, that's cool. Um, that's coming up soon and i'll try and talk with serol
About the sandbox foundation and how it's run and the dao and all of that
uh arthmort
Ryan
Thank you again, and I really appreciate your time
Oh, thank you. I'm so thank you for for that and being involved and uh,
You know, we need uh, we need people as much as involved to you as you are
I love it
Successful, so yeah, thank you and uh, thanks for providing me a platform
Talking about the project and making me up and all that
Absolutely. Au revoir
Bye bye