Well, everybody, we're going to roll right in Sandow Podcasts, Numero four.
We're already at four.
That's crazy, man.
I didn't expect to be at four by the time we hit Joseph and Crafter, but it just kind
of worked out that way.
Where number one was with Hottle and Andy, Andy Richie.
Number two was a few days ago with Pepe about the Magic Palette.
If you didn't see that one yet, I highly recommend you go watch that because that sip is now
live in the proposals.
So the 14-day period closed with community comments.
It got wildly rave reviews and now it's pending.
And I imagine in a few days or a day, it'll be live for everyone.
So take a look at that because we go in depth as into how Pepe and I each answer our own
sip questions per the template.
So you get to learn a lot about the background there.
And then yesterday we did the same thing, but with Creator First sip with Kirill.
Not to be confused with Cyril, Kirill, Cyril, Cyril, different people.
So Kirill does Creator First.
That one's about to close tomorrow and then it will go for community vote after that.
But this podcast is about the community reaction and it can trace its lineage all the way back
to May 28th when the sow, the sandboxed out was suddenly thrust on all of us and we were
left wondering, trying to figure out what's going on.
What does this mean?
Is the hostile takeover?
Is it a coup?
Was it what's going on here?
Turns out it was none of that.
It was just a sudden onset of something that Seb and his team had been envisioning for
quite some time, but for whatever reason, it didn't get communicated much before then.
So clearly a lot of stuff happened after that.
There were a lot of reactions, good, bad, and otherwise.
And I been doing podcasting for a while and I suddenly got the bug to bring it back, but
this time for sandbox.
And what I really wanted to hear was to distill bite-sized perspectives from people about
what do we really think?
How do we really want to approach this?
And thus the community reactions.
First it was Hodl and Andy, just by virtue of convenience, and then Crafter and Joseph.
Joseph, you and I, I don't think we really met or talked much, but once I heard you in
an AMA a week and a half ago, I knew I wanted to grab you in here.
And so Crafter was a given, you know, we've been talking in tweets for a little bit.
So here we are Sandal number four, community reactions, numeral dose and the slides underneath
are actually, it's going to be to our right.
So scope of the talk.
What is this one about?
This one's about sharing our reactions.
It's about healthy criticism.
The thing that it isn't about, it's not about disparaging things.
Healthy criticism is fine.
That's to be expected.
Disparaging, kind of putting things down.
That's what we didn't really envision out of all this, but definitely sharing our perspectives.
And some of it might be spicy takes.
That's okay.
It's just all about making, we're all here because we love the community, because we
love being a part of what we've got going on here.
So that's really all it's all about.
And then let's get right into the introductions.
So Crafter, we heard you from T-Haas.
Introduce thyself.
Indeed, I am.
I'm actually, I'm actually very nomadic.
So I'm in, I'm in, I actually, I lived in Austin for four years and then before that
I did a lot of traveling and now I'm kind of coming into another season where I'll be
doing a lot of traveling.
I'm actually going to be heading to North Carolina next month, but I am in Austin, Texas
right now, visiting friends and enjoying, enjoying what I enjoy of this city so much.
And, but yeah, I'm Crafter.
I've been a podcast host, streamer inside of the metaverse for the last like four years.
I've pretty much just been obsessed with everything that's going on with metaverse and like web
three technology.
So I've just really like dove headfirst in over the last like four years.
So it's been a whirlwind of a ride and it's, I've seen, it's crazy like looking back if
you really like think about everything that you've experienced over the last like four
years.
If you've been around for at all, it's just crazy.
Like to see what we've come from and also like to see the same things repeat themselves
over and over again.
But yeah, it's exciting.
More things change, more they stay the same.
Exactly, exactly.
But I love it here.
That's why I'm still here.
Welcome and give a shout out to don't you you just started up the podcast for spotlights,
right?
Yep.
So we've been I've actually been doing metaverse spotlights for a while.
But I've brought it back and started doing them fairly often recently.
So metaverse spotlights is where I just highlight different cool things that are going on inside
of the metaverse world.
A lot of it has been focused on what goes on inside of the sandbox because that's where
I spend a lot of my time, but I also branch out to other games as well.
Just always trying to find the funnest funnest games and experiences that have to do with
metaverse stuff.
So yeah, metaverse spotlight and then I do I have a variety of shows that I do that kind
of just kind of you seem like a variety type of guy.
Behind the avatars another one that I interview people and that one's totally just hang out
and who knows what we'll talk about.
Yeah, that's cool.
And is it is it what's the is it on Twitch?
Is that where they can find you?
Yep.
So Twitch crap.
Well, I'm pretty much crafter underscore eth everywhere.
Okay, gotcha underscore eth Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it and Twitch YouTube.
That's about it.
Awesome.
Those are the main main places anyways.
Cool.
Thanks, crafter.
And what's up, Batman?
I see you in the chat.
Joseph Vision X.
Yes, sir.
Man.
All right.
So let's try to do it in kind with crafter born and raised.
Well, born in Alaska outside of a military base move.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Alaska.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
So, you know, my blood is running cold for the rest of my life.
Doesn't matter, you know.
Outside Elmendorf as did you say outside of Elmendorf?
Yeah.
That is the Air Force base that I was born on.
Yes.
Yeah.
Why?
Joint base.
Okay.
Elmendorf.
Yeah.
What?
Okay.
Anyway, I'm also military.
So, yeah.
Oh, very nice.
Very nice.
Okay.
So we moved down here to Washington State.
I was like three and I've been here pretty much in the exact same county my entire life.
And I bought a house recently that is less than a block away from my childhood home.
So in terms of what we're doing here, why am I on this show?
Yeah, Joseph, why are you on this show?
I got into the crypto space and getting into the crypto space with my like $700 to my name
at the time working basically minimum wage job at a Walmart store.
As you do.
And around the same time sort of said, yeah, I don't want to do that anymore.
You know, I was a manager, but I'm making 13 bucks an hour.
You know what I mean?
Handling like $700,000 daily transaction volume, getting paid 13 bucks an hour.
I'm like, no big deal.
No big deal.
I started branching out into many different industries.
I ran a shopping center at some point.
I worked at a radio station.
I got into the sandbox in about 2019, started helping out Alex Camisazi Flores on the official
live streams.
Oh, OK.
From there, I did community management for the sandbox for a while, which also helping
launch the Sand Token itself.
It was my job to know everything inside and out about what is this white paper?
What is the sandbox going to be doing for the next five years?
So in many ways, you already knew this was coming.
Yeah.
Yeah, this was part of the plan the whole time.
Yeah.
Everything about the DAO was already pretty much drafted years ago because this isn't
really telling us anything new.
The only thing that really happened that was different than what we would expect is that
it sort of just popped up without too much direct interaction with the community.
As you mentioned, it was kind of a surprise.
So now that said, there's a lot of nuance that has changed about the sandbox game over
the years.
And I've been there for each and every moment of that.
So hopefully, that can bring some unique perspective.
I currently, along with Alex, own a company called The Council of Tech that primarily
does quality assurance for official sandbox content, among other things, including an
upcoming, assuming that they have an upcoming season of content, we would be doing QA for
that.
Or if they had the Game Maker fund for a while inside the sandbox game where a person could
apply and say, I have a plan for this game and the sandbox might fund it, we would be
doing the testing for that, stuff like that.
So that's currently where I'm at at the moment, as well as working on stuff for a project
called the Wizzyverse.
But I'm gonna keep that one on the back burner until we're completely finished because I
am a new Wizzyverse person now.
I got a hat.
Oh, very good.
Nice.
Yeah, I got the purple hat.
Those hats are pretty popular.
They are pretty dope, man.
Like glasses, wizard hats.
Yes.
And if you, depending on what kind of character you use it on, like the way that they're mounted,
they react differently in fun and funny ways.
And I saw somebody wearing a purple Wizzy hat, but they were playing a game created
by AtnotAnimated or AOPE, I think is their username on the sandbox.
And it was sort of like a Fall Guys-like level that they had created.
But anyway, the hat aligned with this like Game Boy looking character where the eyes
weren't actually like over the eyes because that character didn't have a head in a normal
way.
It was a boxing short character, but really cute and fun anyway.
So it's fun to see how those assets that Alex makes just to kind of for free giveaway on
the official sandbox shows get used a lot in the community.
But we're working on Wizzyverse stuff beyond that to give additional utility to that stuff
through a five-year roadmap.
So yeah, anyway, that's what I'm doing.
Yeah, I heard you talk about it at the Sand Fan Cafe and how you were doing it for private
groups and partners and then how you posited that you would eventually maybe want to propose
a SIP where the community would pay for some of the budget to conduct that quality assurance.
Well, yeah, I think, I mean, it's a useful tool to the community to be able to have their
stuff tested.
And we already do that on the official, you know, the council tech on Twitch.
We'll do QA testing regularly.
This is actually my first show since doing a 24-hour straight live stream for a children's
charity.
Yeah, by the way, that was awesome.
Nice job.
How much you raised?
Not enough.
That's okay.
How much?
Like a couple hundred bucks.
That's fine.
That's fine, man.
You gave a whole 24 hours of your life.
Yeah, in years past my team.
So I've been doing it for like 11 years for this extra life charity group.
And we have raised into the tens of thousands before as a team.
But I think it was something, you know, this isn't the normal time where I would have done
a 24-hour stream.
But it did inspire something to bring in extended for fun stream for those charity things more
regularly.
So I got to tell you, I had an old man moment.
I don't know.
Like I was 18 hours in and just like...
And so anyway, at some point, my wife was like, okay, let me go get cleaned up and I'll
come back and relieve you for like an hour.
You can get a nap and come back in and do it again.
So she's the real MVP.
Yeah, three different people sort of involved in that process just from my local, you know,
my wife and her best friend were helping out.
Yeah.
Anyway, awesome, man.
Another show coming up.
So awesome.
We'll do more things for charity going forward.
Nice.
Well, welcome.
Welcome.
Glad to have you.
And I added a question at the very end now.
It was the plan all along, he said.
And we'll save that for if we have time at the end.
So I'm Lanzer.
I've been in the sandbox space about midway through season one.
So I've got my season one pass and all that.
And once I kind of looked at what was going on around, I discovered that this...
I went through this one over to Central Land and some of the other ones that were around
as seeing there was a lot of momentum behind this one, a lot of energy, mostly a lot of
energy.
And that to me bode well for its long term flourishing.
So that's where I started slowly, dipping my toes in equipment, then dipping my toes
in avatars, then taking the plunge in with land.
And then definitely going submersive all the way was when I applied for GMF and we're about
to publish our GMF from last year, about this month, if they can do the final quality test.
So maybe your team's doing it, Joseph, I don't even know.
But that one's not me.
OK, I have a very specific list that they were giving.
Yeah, I would get to sign them like every other.
Yeah, we would have Monday meetings.
So Lava Defense should be coming out in the next month or two.
And it's about surviving endless waves.
I like making minigames, something that has a lot of repeatability to it.
That was what Floor Droppers was.
You keep on playing over and over versus like the RPGs that you go through it.
And then once you know the storyline, you know, you can choose to play it again.
But ultimately, so I like minigames.
I have like 25 different minigames that I have spec'd out.
It's just a matter of funding and all that jazz.
So did that.
And also we made Floor Droppers.
So I'm president of MetaWorlds, Floor Droppers ranked seventh in Builders Challenge 1.
So that was that was a huge achievement, at least at least for for my sake.
And I have a contract negotiation business background.
So as I alluded to earlier, I was in the military for a number of years.
I was pretty much the military's business person.
So anytime they wanted to buy like an airplane or books, you know, they sent me to go negotiate
it and put it on contract.
So I've negotiated with everyone from Boeing to mom and dad's ice cream shop down the road.
So it I've had a lot of fun doing that.
And I love loved it.
So also, my own businesses in the background, like novel publishing, music publishing, iTunes
and Amazon and all that.
So I'm in my element writing up these sips of which I've written two and I'm almost done
with my third one.
So I should have that done by the end of the week with the MetaWorlds team.
And that's me.
I've been podcasting around Planetside 2.
People look into my YouTube history, they'll see a lot of videos on Planetside 2 podcasts
and that sort of stuff.
And a player organization where we would host weekly 400, so 200 on 200 players.
And in 2016, we eventually broke a Guinness World Record with 1000 players, the most players
in an FPS match.
That was the ultimate achievement of it was run by a community organization that I helped
co-found and ran for a number of years.
So I've been lurking in the background in the digital currency space until now, where
I feel like my talents can be utilized in a more business proposal and business management
type background, which is where I really love.
That's where I thrive.
So that's me in a nutshell.
And I'm from Florida.
So we got Texas, Washington, Alaska, really, and then Florida.
So choose your choose your weather.
We're all represented here.
Even Florida, which has only one degree of weather, which is super hot.
Hot and humid.
Hot, hot and humid.
Yeah.
You have raining in 80.
You know, you can go take a shower outside.
So that's that's us.
Crafter, Joseph and Lancer.
So disclaimer, none of us represent the sandbox game, right, Joseph?
You don't represent sandbox game.
Nope.
Crafter, you don't represent them, right?
No, sir.
We do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.
Crafter Joseph and I, we speak for ourselves as San Pam community members and we are not
your financial or legal advisors.
Nothing we say is to be taken as such.
So with that little administrative out of the way, let's get to where we are now.
The road to the Dow began May 28th, where it was announced via email.
I saw it via email first and then I saw the medium article second and SIPs one, two and
three were immediately launched for vote.
That brought us down a well trod path to today full of fireside chats.
There were multiple mocha verse halls on Saturdays led by G. There was an AMA by the sandbox
game, another AMA by Dr. Meda Verso, who I saw in the chat earlier, shout out, and San
Pam Cafe hosted one this past week with Joseph, you were in that one.
And so a lot of buzz happened ever since May 28th.
And in between that, SIPs one, two and three, they closed, excuse me, they were resubmitted
in order to account for land voting and SIPs four and five were not.
That was because of the San, Cyril explained that was because of the Sand, the snapshot
website only allowed them to have three up at the same time.
So they chose to resubmit the first three.
So that meant SIPs four and five closed on June 12th.
They both passed with above 80%.
And interesting fact is sandbox did vote on one of those.
So we can look at those numbers later.
But SIPs one, two and three, the resubmitted versions, they did not vote.
So that was pure community.
All of them passed.
SIP three passed with a notable 64%.
And which one was that one?
That one was?
That's the money.
Yeah.
That was the money?
Yeah, the initial budget.
So that one had quite a bit more of a mixed reaction versus the sandbox DAO and the council
being voted in.
That one was above 80% and number two was above 90%.
I think that one was the foundation itself.
Yeah, there is the foundation itself.
So positive reactions on that one.
And then we are here today.
Sandow podcast four, after having two, three, five SIPs passed, there is now a new SIP.
That is the magic palette.
That's the one that closed yesterday and is now open for today for voting.
So get your vote in, let your voice be heard.
Magic palette.
Pepe worked really hard on that one and is ready to receive the community's verdict.
Some interesting facts.
So when we say the word SIP, we're talking about sandbox improvement proposal.
When we say the word DAO, we mean decentralized autonomous organization.
Voting.
Every SIP requires a quorum to be eligible to pass.
So before you can get out the gate to be yes or no, it's got to receive 30 million voting
power, which is approximately 1% of the current, the fully diluted supply.
And then Joseph, if I get anything wrong, you're the whiz kid here.
So just cut in there.
Voting power.
Fun facts on that right away.
Yeah.
For clarity, 30 million voting power.
A land has 4,000 voting power for one land and there's 166,464 lands.
So technically the lands have 20 times the voting power needed to reach a quorum.
So if 5% of all landowners vote, no one who owns any piece of sand need vote.
That's fascinating.
Only 5% of the landowners is what you said?
Who ever thought?
So theoretically-
So one sand.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
One whale.
You know what I mean?
Who owns some land?
It'll be like, that's great for me as a landowner.
Click.
I was just thinking that.
I was like, who are the top landowners?
I know a few that I know have-
Most of the brand IPs, right?
No, ironically, I think it's still Whale Shark that owns the largest amount, which is, I
think it says whales.me on the lands if you look at them on the map now.
How did you determine that?
Is there a website or something?
Crawler that we can look at?
Sandbox game.
What's that?
Just on sandbox game.
Sandbox is the largest owner of lands, but as I'm looking back, I've got to see if Whale
Shark still owns a heck ton of land.
Oh yeah.
Whale Shark.
Do do do do.
Whale.me.
You can see him sort of in the lower right.
Atari probably owns an approximate amount as well.
Oh yeah, Atari's got a big one.
That's a 24 by 24?
Yeah, but they also own another one in the top-
Oh, there he is.
Middle right.
Whale.me.
Front and center.
They've got a lot more.
Big old Whale.
A lot more smaller.
In the center as well.
Like instantly origin land sales.
They've got quite a few of those larger parcels.
I don't know if that's 5% as I'm just looking at it now, but nonetheless, a handful of folks
could really make an impact.
And it's important to note that the sandbox definitely owns 5% of the supply.
So not counting their actual sand portion if they just voted with their lands.
So that what you mentioned about, I don't know whether it was four or five, where the
sandbox did vote.
They had 24 million voting powers purely on the sand that they had because when they made
that vote, land voting didn't work.
Yeah, let's take a look.
I've got them here on slide 14.
SIP 5 and 4 both had 4 million voting power dumped on it by the sandbox.
And so that, you know, I'm sorry, not 4 million.
What am I saying?
27 million.
The next person had 4 million.
Right.
So, yeah.
It's based on their sand portion, not their land ownership portion.
But in theory, you know.
Yeah, in theory, and those Seb and Cyril both mentioned that that was a mistake.
So they said they do not want to be voting in the future.
So they said, please forgive them for voting with 4 and 5.
They couldn't redo it because of the snapshot.
Couldn't resubmit it because of that.
So we shall see.
We shall see.
I believe them.
I give them the benefit of the doubt.
Till otherwise.
So one sand equals one voting power.
One land equals 4500 voting power.
And SIP numbers.
So far, there are six.
So it was five up until today.
Now there's six.
Magic Palette by Sandrush is requesting the community's verdict.
SIPs passed so far.
Five.
All of them have passed favorably.
And there's one draft SIP available.
Creator First by Cyril.
That one closes tomorrow and that will be up for vote after that.
I have two that I submitted.
I don't know how many else.
Everyone else has submitted, but I at least will count myself.
I've submitted two currently undergoing the back and forth between us and the project
team before it goes to the draft SIP count.
Mine is Windows resizing for end resolution options.
Now we can't resize anything, especially GameMaker.
So resizing that.
And the second one is to create a roadmap for sandbox releases.
Client launcher, box edit, all that.
Ted Bitz.
That would be nice.
It would help people plan.
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought too, man.
I've got 25, 20 experiences I spec'd out.
Knowing which ones give me the capability because each of them have a different focus.
That would be very helpful.
All right.
There's the on that subject real quick.
There's got to be like an internal roadmap, right?
That's what I thought.
I've never ran like a gaming company, but I like it.
Normally you would, you know, only you would internal roadmap.
And the question is, and the thing you always have to fight with is does something go wrong?
If so, then kick the can down the road.
Right.
So when you release a roadmap that says I'm going to add range attacks, let's say, because
it's been in the roadmap for four years, you know, how does that get impacted by other
demand?
And so one of the things that I think that the doubt can help with, hopefully, is to
put this in a constructive way.
You can put it in a non-constructive way first.
The executives.
That's what I would like to do here.
If you want to have a sufficient roadmap.
To help the devs, you have to limit the creativity of the executives of the sandbox.
Yeah.
Like the Dow has to in some way be able to tell them no.
Right.
And I don't know, like the infrastructure and the way this is set up right now, I don't
think that's possible.
But I'll give you an example.
Snoop Dogg, one of the larger partner landowners, we've seen events come out for Snoop.
We've had contracts with Snoop, details of which I can't express in any way.
Snoop Dogg content needed a feature for a music video or a live concert to be possible
in the game.
So multiplayer interconnectivity player to player got pushed off in favor of developer
work on having essentially like a YouTube or a live feed injection.
Got to pay the bills.
Inside.
Yeah, sure.
I'm sure there's money at stake.
Yeah.
There are definitely reasons and good reasons to do that.
However, you know, this is what I'm talking about, right?
If you want a roadmap for which I think is important, I would 100% agree.
You're not the only dev who has asked for that.
Basically, every single dev who was in the Game Maker Fund asked for that.
The only way to do that is to limit the creative options that come from the outside so that
someone who's talking to the next Paris Hilton doesn't say, yes, we can do that to whatever
it is they want before they already can do that, right?
Because you'll run into that problem where they may be like, yeah, we could definitely
inject this feature that you want.
But it's not done yet, right?
And then they got to push something off and kick the can down the road when really what
you want to have.
And this has been better for the sandbox game recently is you want to have people who just
say, this needs to be done in six weeks, go, and then they can have that on a roadmap or
whatever.
So anyway, I'm currently so I said I was a contract negotiator in my past life.
I'm currently a program manager of projects.
And so I have a large portfolio of projects and roadmaps are one of the mechanisms I use.
My take is that a good roadmap can account for changes, delays, adjustments.
That is the whole point is to demonstrate what is to be expected when things happen.
It's not a matter of if things happen.
It's always a win.
You know, a good plan is a great plan until something wrecks it and then you've got to
develop a better plan or adjust to the reality of things.
That's okay.
That's allowed to happen.
With the business, things happen like that opportunities come you want to take advantage
of them.
It's a communication factor that isn't there that I want to be there.
So what I proposed was either make one that's internally available to the public or say
if there isn't one, which there probably is sandbox thing can create one or better worlds
can create one for you because I have project management experience for days when it comes
to that and we can you know kind of pivot table macro Excel formula something that's
easy in real time that can be adjusted on the fly and all you need to do is snip or
copy paste it and done so.
So there I had different options that that sandbox can choose from but this is basically
does the community want this if so here are the options that sandbox team can can choose
from and I've got no stake in the game.
I'll create a form if they like.
I need the access to that and then easy peasy got a dev team that can make that happen.
But I would expect that that roadmap can account for changes.
Otherwise it's you know it's a nice visual that is obsolete two seconds after it gets
published.
I think that's like I said that's that's the for the sip I think that's important and
if it gets passed I think that is important as well because then it sort of forces the
hand of the executives to say okay yeah we made a roadmap and now we have to uphold
it potentially right and then it also gives us as a community more of an awareness of
you know their alignment versus their execution which is also important because you know as
you as you alluded to and so I pulled it back up I've got the original white paper and
going through it on my screen you know there are things that you see in there that are
like okay that's happening now and it's almost the very end of of this or yeah I mentioned
I think on the on my last podcast that one of the things in this white paper is like
the game will come to mobile in 2021.
You know what I mean and the game will come to consoles in 2023 or something like that
maybe it was 2020.
So I've I've run a lot of programs and some of mine were really on time some of them were
ahead of schedule and then some were years off schedule delayed it it was always about
messaging it's not necessarily bad that things delay not necessarily yeah if if you have
good reasons for it if they're acceptable if there's a plan to mitigate it to overcome
it we get it man life happens so but the failure to communicate means that every single one
of those 800 plus partners that that said said were part of during NFC Lisbon and every
single one of those 350,000 creators that he listed has no idea what to do with their
business and their and I've got to raise capital to I've got financing I got to secure I've
got seed investors I've got responsibilities and stakeholders and when I can't communicate
when things are coming it it limits my my potential and it's hurting I'm struggling
as a studio just like everybody else's.
Yeah so please please communicate yeah it's it's okay I mean a project management team
worth its salt isn't scared to death of delays they just know they have to deal with them
that's the difference I'm off my soapbox but I'm passionate about it man I'm passionate
just just I mean just communicate it.
Yeah the communication I think is what I've always said boils down to a lot of things
with the sandbox that seem to have could have been avoided a lot of things that turn into
uproars and and yeah upset fans basically is 14 day notice on builders challenge one
avoidable yeah there's there's one but but yeah it I don't know that's that's something
that needs to get figured out and I think maybe having a roadmap or something just out
there just that yeah it's easy for everyone to just look at it and then obviously then
having to communicate about how things are going and if things are off off track that's
fine just let us know kind of thing yeah because yeah that's that's I don't know and if it
goes down if it goes down easier it will create problems but there's no doubt that when you
give people communication you give them knowledge and power you give them the power to turn
that around back on you all right when you communicate a roadmap it will make your life
more difficult all right that's a fact but what it does in spades in return is the trust
that you build with the people who are invested in your community invested in their time effort
and energy into playing the game and organizing things like this and networking you build
trust you build confidence and in this game that is a big deal why would I use sandbox
over to central land why would I use it over axing infinity why because right now lands
are going down or they're they've been at 0.1 eat for a while now there's not it doesn't
look good when I when I heard captain's podcast the other day they all thought sandbox was
dead captain doesn't think he'll ever return I don't agree with him but there's so I know
that a lot of the sand fam are kind of in the sand fam and that's that's where where
they hang out and what they pay attention to but I don't I am out there and listening
to a lot of other a lot of other people talk and and participating in those conversations
and whenever sandbox gets brought up it it that is the reaction sandbox is dead it's
not coming back no no one no one really thought sandbox was cool in the beginning in these
circles like so like that which is part of it which is part of it they're already leaning
away away from it but but it's it's just it's not relevant anymore and that's that's a I
don't I don't know if that's a huge issue at this point I don't think so maybe it's
just being unrelevant right now and just build something good and and then get the attention
of everyone again right maybe that is okay but well but I can tell you so I was at NFT
NYC representing the sandbox in 2022 yeah I can't remember and something like that anyway
I'm standing on the conference floor at the booth right and I had somebody come up to
me and they were like oh it's a sandbox I played that once and I said well need you
play it they said I played in season one and we were launching season three like right
after that right and I said I said to them okay well so when you played the game you
know I mean for lack of a better word I sucked you know so there was three or you know there
was there was what one main hub and a couple small branches off of it in a total of like
16 experiences all of them yeah yeah yeah right and the you know I'm like season three
has 90 experiences coming 90 plus in it and they were like what and I'm like yes and they
include games such as blah blah blah whatever like good stuff even stuff that was previously
having had one in game jams that were just fun and interesting and you know the game
has changed in like a generational way and when I just broke down like the things that
I knew were their problems in season one that had been fixed just in season two they were
like I didn't even know the same mocks did all that and I think that's part of that's
part of the good thing when you think about like what a roadmap might do that can garner
people's attention but also I constantly look at you know these spaces that are considered
metaverses and if I take out the mechanic of play to earn right and I just say who's
doing it better I don't know that that exists like I think the sandbox is still doing it
the best you know despite all the things that anybody might say when you look at ease of
access for developer I think it's there it it's not perfect and it can be better but
it's there when you look at the fact that like I can tell my wife must be watching something
with our friend in the background so forgive me for the giggling but the when you look
at the ways that decentralized does the metaverse right everything is all in one sort of instance
which in one part is indicative of their lack of a player base quite honestly like if you
look at their daily active users I think it's proven that they have fewer because you see
the one problem with not having instance content is that if you wanted a medieval theme you're
going to be right next to a techno rave which is right next to a casino in decentralized
and so there's no cohesion and there's also it's really easy for your player to not be
able to be focused on the content that you want them to be immersed in they were thought
of it that way before in your space and the sandbox game fixes that by being instanced
downside to the sandbox game versus other metaverses other side which is not in public
development at this point already technologically is far and away better than the sandbox game
they use the same tech that star atlas is using that allows for thousands of players
to be in a single instance and with no friction star atlas is doing it even better because
all the things you do individually end up recorded on chain so there's no saving and
no need for you know whatever anyway so the sandbox game can leverage all of this knowledge
.
was watching, like they were they were like, OK, I'm going to turn the cap off.
Go. And, you know, we we had one crash at like 120 and then we had another crash at
like 250 or somewhere in there, like, you know, whatever the number was.
This is during season three.
So, you know, the tech is way behind in some regards,
but the ease of access for devs is way up there.
And so the things that I have mentioned that I want to see the sandbox focus on
and change on is really just about incentivizing developers to develop here
and then making sure that development can continue.
So, yeah, anyway, I'll get into that more later.
I agree with that sentiment.
Yeah, I would love to build more of that.
But now I'm just mumbling
that that catalyst 2.0 and then GMF 24
eviscerated my ability to be self-sustaining.
I'm going to do a podcast on that because I kept the numbers and all the accounts
that that showed how I was not able to be self-sufficient.
It's fascinating.
It's fascinating how one, I have a model for before catalyst 2.0 hit and before
GMF 2024 hit and then have a model after and you can just see it tank.
My my cost skyrocket and my profitability goes way down because of the catalyst
change and that, yeah, I don't I still don't know how I'm going to solve that
problem because it even though I ranked seventh in GMF,
GMF, those rounds one, I got ten thousand sand and it cost me twenty thousand to
make. So, yeah, whoops.
Right. And that's that's the
twenty thousand USD to make, so that's forty thousand sand.
You know, yeah,
because thirty three cents or fluctuation on that jazz, but yeah, right.
Yeah, that's that's I think that's the core of it that needs to be solved.
And I've got my own sip to produce to help you solve that problem.
And hopefully, thank you. I appreciate that.
I'll prove that because, yeah, I know the solution to fixing catalysts and gems.
Gems don't exist now. They're just catalysts.
This is how long I've been around, right?
Right. Right. I guess that shows mine, too, because I.
Yeah. So there was a subsystem that was
in the background where the power and the speed and the magic and the luck.
Luck. Yeah. Luck was my favorite.
You used to have to have a gym.
Respective to all those traits and a catalyst to have a number of slots.
So now they reduce that down to just catalysts with their individual rarity
types, but really, I see that as just a friction for devs.
You know that financially is a friction,
but it's a friction in another way as well that can be simplified.
But anyway, we'll get.
Yeah. Yeah.
All these rabbit trails, we could go down there, all their own podcasts.
Episodes.
But yeah, it was twenty thousand USD,
and that was on the cheap and cost sharing and revenue sharing.
That's how they would turn it out in 14 days.
Well, shout out to Meta Theory Studio.
Love them to death. They're great.
All right, so let's actually get into these questions here.
All right. Reactions good and bad.
I've heard you all's reaction before, but just go ahead and say,
Crafter, what was your reaction to the Sandbox Dell announcement and then
everything thus far?
I feel like I haven't I guess I haven't really thought about this since since it
really went down, but I feel like my initial reaction to the announcement was,
of course, they didn't tell us about this.
And then my and then my reaction was,
I wonder if this is going to work because I've seen a lot.
I've seen a lot of Dows
not where you're going through the stages of grief.
They would like them to work.
Yeah. So that was like maybe this will work.
And then and then from there, it's been kind of a.
I don't know, just like a slow
incline walking up a hill that feels like I'm walking in the right direction
with everything, I don't know.
It's so I'm like cautiously skeptical about it.
I does that make sense?
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.
Yeah. So that's that's how I feel about the Dow now is that I I think.
It has potential and I think it could do a lot of good things.
I guess I have also seen just like a lot of ways that Dows play out with with whale
interaction that is unfortunate because I see all kinds of things
not get approved that I think should get approved.
And I see a lot of things that get approved that I'm like, what the fuck is
going on in this world, which, by the way, is another episode
that I want to drag you in on was what lessons we learned from other Dows.
So TBD,
that would be a good one.
But yeah, cautiously skeptical, I think is a good reaction to my
breathing right now.
All right, Joseph, what about you?
What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. OK, so my hot reaction right off the bat was.
Who the fuck are these people?
OK, now my
caveat, because that's point number three, so I'll leave that in the window.
I completely forgot about that, but I agree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So obviously I knew Seb and I think everybody knew Seb.
I knew Yatsu because they are the parent company chairman.
Right. I did not know that until I read into it a little bit more.
Yeah. Yeah.
So the good I think those are fine choices.
I'm going to say fine.
I'm not going to say good or ideal.
I think that the advisory board.
No, the advisory board is the lesser folks.
Forgive me.
Special counsel are the ones that get paid.
Yeah.
Special counsel board is lacking someone who works with the people.
I think the people's choice you've got when I looked into them.
And this is off of the hot reaction.
This is more detail.
When I looked into them,
they really just seem like folks Seb knew.
You know what I mean?
It's two people who own businesses based out of Paris where the sandbox's
primary offices are and one person who ran one good program with the sandbox,
which is, you know, for the most part, they're fine people.
In fact, I find that the World of Women Chief Operating Officer,
I believe, is what her role is.
Yeah, Shannon.
She's very, very good.
Yeah.
I looked into her after that because I own a wow.
So I was like, OK, now.
Now.
But it also lends to how the advisory board is selected, right?
Because Loretta Chen, who's a fantastic person and a great representative
of the sandbox at conferences, created the World of Women experiences
with their dev team and Loretta Chen did.
I believe so.
Oh, yeah. I forget the name of their team.
But nonetheless,
that's fascinating because I did an interview for the sandbox of her
leading into Alpha Season 3, so I feel awful about that.
But my memory is just bad like that, quite frankly.
But the.
The folks who are on the advisory board,
I thought were all really smart in a sense, in the sense that they know
the product in the same way that you would know the product, Lancer,
they use it every day.
So they're going to have from the dev side,
they're going to have a good idea of what needs to be approved.
However.
You know, again, hot take initial reaction.
Everybody who's on the special counsel is getting paid a decent amount to just
turn a key. They're not really doing anything.
And more importantly, none of them have time to actually care or pay attention.
Because that was another thing.
Metal members of companies.
Their involvement.
Oh. Yeah.
And especially yet to.
One of the largest presences in the whole crypto space area.
Yeah, I had to back out of the eight一o at some point.
As a result, they're just in too damn busy.
So how does that work, you?
You know, laid out once their point.
Doing it again.
Well, I did in the tidbits of like seven,
did put Cyril did mention I and there we go there I was confusing Kyril and Cyril
at that point Cyril mentioned during his June 4th AMA we selected the initial
council members and special advisors from those we trusted to help guide us
in those initial stages so I think you were right on the money yeah yeah I mean
it's gonna need adjustment but that that said when you look at you know a little
bit later they got approved these sips for these people to be running the show
okay you know and I think that helped a lot when they had the conversations that
they had in the first AMA's it didn't look great that they didn't have
everybody show up to AMA number one sure that they're not they're too damn busy
to do this but at the same time yeah go ahead crafter well I mean that's that's
the biggest thing that I've seen from them is and yeah they they do have
impressive resumes and they but yeah they're they're busy as hell like
cuz they're they're doing all kinds of things and managing businesses and all
like I don't know it just doesn't I don't know I don't understand how
they're gonna have any time to do anything good for the Dow and I feel
like at this stage maybe like yes you want trusted people that are going to
steer things in the right direction that is very true but you need people that
are involved at this stage that are making things happen and I just I feel
like it's just gonna play out the same way I've seen again other dow's is that
like it takes years for it to get going and actually functioning in a good in a
good rhythm and it just I don't think it has to be that way if you have if you
actually have the right people in place to make things happen yeah it might just
be me I'm speaking for but now that I'm reaching my mid-30s when I was younger I
ran like multiple companies I was in multiple nonprofits doing all sort like
10 12 different projects slash jobs in my free time it was it was I was running
I was hustling and because I just had so much passion energy but now that I'm in
my mid-30s I've started over the years just taking things off my my my workload
to where now I only have about three three things and sandbox is now one of
those three that I've started to commit to because I see this going in a really
positive direction it has the budget it has the energy it has the momentum ish
we can get it back right but it has the people and and for once in my life I got
in early I got I got in to where you know I've have an experience under my
belt and I've I've watched the community I played almost all of the experiences
and all the old ones right the seasons before they start proliferating into
hundreds but yeah I'm like I want to commit I want to commit and so when
crafter when you're saying that I'm like yeah I get that can can some of these
others can they devote the energy needed to to build a healthy organization
because right now we're living off of the the early momentum the announcement
and then the 20 million dollar raise off of a 1 billion dollar about valuation
like there's a lot of push but when that dissipates the attention goes elsewhere
who's left who's left to carry this forward right now that's interesting look
look at where we're at right now there's there's barely any interaction going on
I mean I know I know there but it's not I didn't I didn't go just read that PR
but you just said that they raised 20 million and I knew that off a 1 billion
dollar valuation 1 a billion dollar valuation was that okay but is that how
they wrote it in the press release that is how they wrote it yes I'll pull it up
hey cool it's fun cuz that's wrong it's much higher evaluation it should have
been much higher than that captain captain and his co-host mentioned that
something closer to four or five billion was what they either expected or that
they had seen before I couldn't quite make that out yeah yeah so yeah well
let's if we defer back to just the liquidity of the land right 166 464
times one and what is he's right now like $3,300 yeah about 33
34 right now number so yeah I mean that's another yeah it's in the
announcement sandbox announces 20 million dollar funding at 1 billion
valuation cap to expand creator economy right holy shit that is concerning what I
remember is that they were valuated at 4 billion oh during their first raise and
or one of their raises and then this this is the second or not so I don't
know how many yeah but they where they dropped the valuation way down yeah
that's what I remember like seeing in the headlines and I don't know I'm not
a numbers guy so I see these things and I like yeah when I was there when I was
there um we had oh my god why why is my dog anyway I'm just gonna pretend like
my dog's not barking in the background forgets okay the a land capped it a land
peaked at five e for the minimum off right right and so that five eight times
166 whatever times four thousand at the time it meant it was 20 grand for a land
for one you know USD valuation and right now the total value of all the lands is
now just like 50 something million dollars yeah I was looking at earlier
day they each each is hovering about point 12 e right now yeah okay so a
little higher than that then it'd be like 60 mil for all of the lands if you
wanted to buy them all which is a stark contrast because that's a you know
that's the difference of billions of dollars of total valuation loss lost
yeah from another perspective however if the sandbox can build a good
proposition for developers to come in then you're spending three four hundred
dollars to buy a the right to publish in this place right you're buying your slot
on the Apple Store you're buying your slot on the Google Play Store and you
don't have to take a 30% revenue cut it's a good price point it is it is so
that devs can make money easier right you know like yeah but the that that hurts as
a number when I hear that number my god because like I'm I was like I said I was
there launching sand with the sandbox I was helping people including one guy who
literally lost a million dollars worth of sand he just lost it you know wallet
he was like he was super pissed off going through our support and I was like
bro here is your each transaction where you traded it for USD see like three
weeks ago you weren't were you drunk and then he was like oh my god I didn't know
I'm like yeah this is your wallet here you go here's when you did it you lost
this million dollars you did it wrong and yeah man it's man anyway good time
kind of I'd be throwing I'd be throwing a big big changes in SIPs and hopefully
those changes can it can impact so one of the other one of the other reaction
points that I had was when I asked them on that first AMA what what impact does
it have they replied with well we might completely deny a proposal right we
might just say nah can't do it which I thought sort of defeats the purpose of
the the decentralized autonomous yeah it's none of those things if the sandbox
can come through and ubiquitously go nah yeah there's I mean they have multiple
ways to do that it's right and there's multiple layers during the process that
it sort of comes about so it does help if you're proposing something for a
tool that they definitely are not making or definitely could not make right but
also it helps if if you can get something like a roadmap to get up like
available I know that those roadmaps already exist so if you can get that to
be votable then that would be easy to pass and easy to implement so anyway
yeah right on preach
in my opinion the way like they've done everything you should be able to submit
that and have it be an SIP like I already submitted it so I'm just waiting
for them to put it to community 14-day community comment yeah that'll be the
interesting bit right because that's where the friction may come in special
council are the people who put it forward to can the community even vote
so it does a special cancer look at that and say I didn't I didn't hear a no yet
put out a roadmap right yeah and so I'm interested to see that's that's what I
want to see from this process is special council to effectively get out of the
way and say fine go vote for it on almost any SIP yeah and then actually
know how goes they know yeah that'll make it that'll make it decentralized if
it is going to be my first three to five sips I'm hitting different sectors to
see kind of what what we can do one was in game Windows windows resizing one was
out of game programatics then I'm gonna have more of an out of game plug-in tool
and then magic palette so Pepe is hitting the out of game web based so I'm
trying to feel out the contours of what the Dow can can can stomach don't know
and if I was if I was projecting my understanding of the sandbox game the
their window resizing is the least likely one to go forward even though it
seems like the easiest one to implement because they may say there may literally
be a person in the office who says I'm already doing that and so your sip will
just get denied and you won't know why it gets denied because they won't be
clear because there is no roadmap yeah it'll just get denied and then you'd be
like damn they're just not gonna do that for me as a dev but it could literally
already be being done and so that's where some of the okay negative friction
maybe versus what you propose but I think that's why I think it's important
for purpose I have forward one two three four 18 more sips I want to write so we
can let one go I'm in my element I'm in my element I like I like this portion
okay so you're unsure the personalities involved and how else would you recap
your reaction
yeah financials the financials were terrible financials need improvement
specifically sure we could say needs improvement the very last line item was
the one that really stuck out for me just because it said other 1.2 million
dollars worth of sand and I'm like yeah okay I have it on a slice 15 other is
2.4 million 2.4 million sand yeah at the time it was almost 50 cents for saying
or whatever so I was roughing it a million million two in USD oh gotcha
gotcha okay yeah yeah how about that all right my reaction my reaction is it's
the same as what I what I said it hasn't really changed I was very skeptical at
first I had the same reaction as Joseph did who are these people I recognize a
couple names but the vast majority of them I don't know I haven't heard and
I've been trying to pay attention to who's been talking the community and
then the the sips one two three four and five those were a bit of a eyebrow
razor to me we were spending money before we even have a budget being passed
there were 27 million voting power being lobbed at the yeses already I'm like what
what is the point of saying no now this at this stage and then as the AMA is
developed as sab serial and and Shannon and Loretta started communicating more
about what was intended and what their intent was as time started to unfold then
my skepticism turned into into hopeful optimism so at this point I'm giving
them the benefit of the doubt they they made it clear that their intention is to
wind up the Troy set it down and then let the community push it or stop it or
run off the tracks I was just listening to Lisbon the other day that got
published said rent reiterated for the third time I've heard in an AMA or
elsewhere that his intention is for the Dow to take over the the decision-making
for the sandbox and and he used the word timeless right he wanted to be
timeless and my interpretation was that and giving the Dow complete authority
over the sandbox it would live on through any one person one CEO one bad
management choice of a director or whatever their case is that some of the
other companies face yeah that Dow choice right and Andy to his credit said bad
idea because one of us is gonna run it off the train and then a whale is gonna
go in or public sentiment is gonna be like hey we should give everyone one
million dollars like some sort of some sort of one billion dollar one billion
dollar valuation killing maneuver and and then it's over but I think it's a
great idea and we'll you know I'm optimistic especially now that I
understand their intent is to they built up the team selected by who they trusted
to build the house the structure and then they will hand the keys over at a
certain point in time in the future and then hands off and I think that's a
great plan I think that's a great plan we'll see how it executes I wonder what
subs vision for how like what how long does he is he envisioning that that's
going to take he didn't say although they did mention one of the reasons why
they chose December 2025 as the reelection for the advisory board was
one to turn over the new budget year and then to to govern out the rest of the
calendar year they felt that they needed that that rest of that calendar year to
make an impact to really build the foundation and the walls so if we decide
to burn all down afterwards they've given us a key to a ready-made house so
at least until December but he we didn't I don't that didn't remember him
specifying beyond that December of next year 2025
which I have a I have a sit plan for that one so I'm that one's gonna be my
most unique one yet because I was listening for what they thought about
elections I got us I'm up to something one of my 18 sips yeah so let's get in
this next one right and before we get into this next one if any of you are
watching and you are advisory council or special advisory board or special
council please let me just say up front none of this is meant to insult none of
this is meant to disparage or demean we are appreciative that you stepped up I
leave I'm I'll speak for myself I'm appreciative that you stepped up to help
lead this initial phase of the Dow there's there's nothing that I'm going
to say that should take away from that and with that let's get into the people
of the advisory board and the special council right so for you all I put it on
slide slide 20 and 21 and I'll show underneath on if you're watching this
stream you can see underneath I'll start to show all of that but what do we know
of the advisory board and the special council Joe what do you yeah what do you
think so I'll go with advisory board first because it's listed first it's
full of creators people who have been in the game maker fund and even further
they're out often as developers in the game maker fund were invited by the
sandbox game to go out to conferences and represent as the people who did make
these games and they would stand there in that booth all around the world these
are people on the advisory advisory board almost almost each and every one
of them has been at some point invited by a sandbox game to represent as a dev
and by that I didn't know that okay so Anthony Chow you know moja maybe not the
first two maybe they have but okay when you're ready to send Matthew videos made
Everest crabs to hermit crab studio has multiple games that have been in
seasons Loretta I mean Loretta like I said made the world of women experiences
on maybe on another team and I've seen like I saw her in New York so I know
that she's represented them and the other teams as well have made really
high-quality stuff artifact labs has been great made some great games McDowell
was one of the better games in the season 3 and then the
I can't I can't read okay so these are very much behind the scenes people is
what I'm hearing yes yeah they're behind the scenes in the sense that they're a
little bit insider but at the same time they are depths for the most part so I
like the advisory folks myself however it would be easy to see how someone from
the community would have no idea who they are and ask like me along being
there right I had no idea so if I'm if I'm doing it differently I would have
had a amaze before it was time to vote for them yeah that said I'm okay with
the vote results because I'm okay with these folks here and the special council
I would I would probably change the person who was the CEO of an an art
installation in Paris that's based around NFTs like that's cool but it
doesn't really satisfy the demand of this platform the core needs for the
platform but also we didn't have any discussion before they were picked
either so there wasn't enough understanding of what the sandbox needs
to do I would say that the special council appeared to be decided once again
as I mentioned based on people that said new and that doesn't mean that they're
bad for this purpose for the most part this is key turning literally but if
these folks happen to get in the way and I think the best opportunity for getting
in the way is gonna come from Seb of SIPs getting forward to community
voting then I think personally I think that's not great and this has nothing to
do with who's picked it really has more to do with the process of how do SIPs
go forward so overall
it's gonna go out there and maybe these people rotate out and probably these
people rotate out do they find themselves not having the time to do it
or is it not worth their time making whatever it was the off their
proposition I think it was like forty thousand dollars for this for the
duration of this this contract if I've converted it from saying two dollars
right obviously that can be much more if they're super dedicated and they put
forward real change that positively impacts the community then the fact that
it's given as tokens is is a good thing the fact that it's not disseminated in
dollars is a good thing but yeah there's some yeah yeah yeah overall teams fine
you know what I mean looking that was not the answer I thought you were gonna
give Joseph I didn't know you knew or had familiarity with the advisory board
you're the first person I've heard to ever explain that yeah well it does help
that I was there at conferences and it does help that I've worked for the
sandbox previously I don't have an active contract it also does help that
many of these teams brought their games to me to QA including you know Loretta I
believe we had done one on a live show where I had played test of the world of
women and they're in the comments talking about oh you saw this you found
this this is why that is this is why that's broken you know and so I know
that they understand how to make the tool better because they do work with the
tool so that I liked I like these people okay well all right
that is that is definitely an interesting take crafter what do you
think well I mean that's good to hear I to be honest haven't taken any time
because none of them have taken any time to to show up to anything so I haven't
really taken any time to look into any of them
Shannon showed up to more than a few so it's fatty
Shannon's the only one that I've really noticed but maybe others have but either
way I I just don't I don't appreciate that for one being in the positions that
that they are and I don't I don't specifically and then this was brought
up earlier I think by Joseph that there's no one that represents the
community there like if any of these people had been involved in the
community at all I would have spoken to them at some point in my four years yeah
because you used to be used to be part of the machine doing doing all of this
so I that's my one hesitation is that it feels like it's just a business move
based off of who all is in these positions and not at all going to really
care about what the community wants and I just think that that's not a good first
taste for people so that strikes you as kind of a negative first step yes and
okay and probably just a misstep to be honest I don't I'm not saying that it
was intentional but I do think that it also could be remedied and should be
remedied just because for one now I'm just kind of spitballing but you got me
rolling the advisors the advisors I don't like I guess I don't understand
their role because if they're supposed to be advising the Dow and the Dow
members where are they we do see Loretta every once in a while I still am in the
same place as you I know they're supposed to advise on cultural there each
other on cultural emphasis and that is somehow input into somewhere I'm not
sure is it yeah when they say cultural are they like referring to just like
areas of the yeah yeah yeah like like fashion regions so industries that's
where my headwind is like industries but and then and then I see other people
point out that they're just from different areas of the world but I don't
know where any of these people are from so I have no idea yeah and community
base in different parts of the world yeah I mean they do have studios out of
different parts of the world but all of them have the same needs and problems
you know for the most part this of code green I think code green is the only one
that I don't remember having seen a game produced by them which is what it is but
I think as I recall code green is the company where a certain portion of all
sand earnings get derived down and this helped solve a problem for the sandbox
in the past as I was getting yelled at on live streams code green helps plant
trees right for every dollar the sandbox makes they take a portion of that and
give it to them so now does that put them in a good spot to advise what the
future of the platform is maybe in a certain way it definitely brings a
certain angle but their angle may be more fiscal and is that okay sure you
know but once again I sort of come from a place where
most of them being CEO COO chief commercial officer founder are they busy
you know so it's nice to see a few faces show up and you know aside from that
yeah it's whatever it's yeah and I guess to piggyback off that comment I'm not
really shitting on them for not showing up I'm just pointing this out that I feel
like and maybe we need their advice and they're good good people to be on the
board but also we need some people that are gonna be able to show up and
and do the things that need to be done so it's really what I want to what I
wanted to see that I didn't see is that I wanted to see I mean I've seen it
message in the chat Panda Pops Alex candidly Kristen don't mean to name
drop myself but my name came up okay of people who are connected with the actual
comments that come through on discord and the comments that come through on
twitch and the comments that come through on Twitter and read them and
understand what the vibe is there's a lovely gentleman who works for the
sandbox out of the UK named Scott and he gives a bullet-pointed synopsis to the
sandbox team of these are all the complaints we saw in discord this week
every single week so if Scott is in this then that makes more sense because then
it's like we know what the sandbox needs to succeed because the problems that the
sandbox needs to solve and they need to solve them in my opinion before December
of 2025 at the end of this term they need to solve the active users they need
to solve devs making money because both of those things solve each other's
problem yeah and both of those things make a land worth five E's again they
make and worth the others again right you know and at the end of the day those
are the numbers that the the VCs and everything are looking for right so so
it makes everyone happy it makes the devs it makes the gamers and it makes
all the all of the money all the money yeah I'm everything happy yeah and that's
what and we should be shooting for and then on the other side what is the good
side to these advisors I would say is let's say an SIP comes through that says
you need to do another season and you need to give away five million sand in
that season right well these advisors might make sense to say well that doesn't
solve the core problem because if I'm an advisor yeah the the games need to be
good they need to be fun they need to be engaging people won't care if they make
money if the games are actually fun you know what I mean if the games are only
there to grind then the only type of gamer you're ever going to get are the
people who are only interested in earning a buck while they play but if a
game is fun you're gonna play it for not five hours you play it for tens of hours
thousands of hours you know what I mean you're just playing it because you're
having a good time people don't play Call of Duty because they earn five
bucks playing it they spend hundreds of dollars because it's fun and worth their
time so that's the shift that they need where these advisors might be good for
that maybe maybe I agree I agree with that a hundred percent though that's
that is what we need to have happen hopefully we figured out yeah I'm I did
not know the majority of them and I had the same reaction what beyond just the
I haven't seen them around the main thing that I was thinking was what is
their role and how are they adding value to the vision of the Dow as I read the
Dow vision I thought that sounds good what are we doing who is our leadership
and what are they doing to do that and other than you know these are I knew
World of Women I didn't know Shannon so I looked her up afterwards and I saw
what she was speaking at and con and different venues and I was like okay
yep that that makes sense that's what I'd expect did not know
grill capital was the the the parent of ledger so as soon as I made that
connection like all right no that makes sense yet sue I knew somewhat about
Enemoca did not know the depths which that presence is in the in our industry
that makes sense area on I didn't I'm not too familiar with
Freddy or area on but I take it for you know what it is it has a very flashy
website yeah my master's degree in micro electronics you know so maybe that's and
then the advisory board I did not know any of them I'd only I've heard Loretta
and a few AMA's and the one that they did today or yesterday the AMA at the
Southeast Asian region she was the host so about 50% of the way through that one
for that and okay cool but the main thing I was trying to figure out is what
exactly are they advising on what is what sort of cultural input and
strategic advisement are they leveraging so none of that was clear to me and to
me when I look at the leadership of any organization military civilian
nonprofit your local D&D board game group the leadership
leadership is one of the the key things that tells you about where is it where's
it going what's its chance of survivability how effective will it be
how credible will they be how transparent will they be and also what
is their what is the ratio to what they speak towards what they act on in
alignment with their vision and I don't really have too many concerns right now
in this initial phase it's a very strong opening in my opinion I don't know all
of these people but I trust that they represent some facet some need and that
when Cyril and Seb say that they spent eight months working on the DOWs you
know articles and corporation the bylaws and all that that they took
careful consideration and inviting these seven individuals and these four five
board members yeah cool well it's also important to note that the advisors get
paid nothing their vestment in the sandbox is the reason why they are
wanting to it so you know it would be literally like asking any of us you want
to do this okay well you get nothing for it but tell me what the beat is right so
that's that's that's one credit to those people yeah yeah the special counsel of
course as I mentioned before it gets paid now it's probably about thirty five
thousand dollars in you know today's sand value for the duration of this
proposal which is till December of 2025 so not too much to garner their
attention necessarily maybe more than they should be paid to just turn a key
but are they just turning keys are they directly involved that's question mark
yeah yeah so yeah I'm optimistic it's it's the longevity of it you know this
is this is not necessarily a sprint when it comes to a Dow and the more I learn
about DOWs I did not know much about DOWs so shout out to G and Enemoka
Hall when they did their Saturday things that was the first time I got exposed to
a long-form narrative of what a DOW was and then I just delved into YouTube
videos after that so that that was cool did not know how that worked at all and
then suddenly oh okay I get it DOWs, SIPs, voting, bylaws, cool. Something I noted
that was I wanted to specially point out was when I was looking through was
looking through the voting power I noticed that sandbox had 27 million
voting power that it applied to SIP for now I realize they did that on accident
zero was very apologetic that they couldn't rescind it to resubmit okay
cool but I think do we have anyone that could rival that at all
is it is it 27 million and then it's lopsided I saw a comp
crypto-politin that's 4 million no no one can rival that let me see there were
over a thousand votes on average for each SIP you know crypto-politin came in
strong with 4 mil and then it seemed like a healthy spread down below that
how much was the I can't see the numbers but is this on the I guess I
could look at the actual slide if I have that on my end but yeah slide 14 but I
just I just zoomed in on it for you yeah so I mean what's the percentage of the
vote that the sandbox casted I'm just curious on what it was it was 100% yes
no what the what is just I don't know it doesn't show me a percentage you just
said 27 million so I'm not sure what that was on the screen there way more
fairly close but the yeah that's that's a good 80% of the weighted vote just
off what you can see there yeah I'm assuming that there's you know a mass
going down to to make the rest of that work but the only even if so I mentioned
on the map the lands have their weighted value if whale shark came in and voted
for that they would have about 3.5 million just on their land but still not
even close being you know as close to the sandbox so got it yeah okay so
then as long as sandbox stays out of the voting cycle the rest of us have a
chance yeah I mean it's it's it is like any this is an inherent problem with
dow's sort of that you have a few people with a lot of power it was always gonna
be like this this is something that I had to look into a lot back when people
were asking about the white paper and is sand viable to buy because in the
white paper it mentions that you know governance is an aspect of a reason why
you would want to buy sand and they were talking about the Dow all the way back
then August 2020 when we launched that in the yeah and back then there were a
few people a few wallets that already had like three million sand in them even
like free IP or whatever you know ICO and yeah people were concerned about
that like well this is disproportionate there's too much and just the one sand
wallet so I think that's that's the real tell it is it clearly frustrated some
people there were many people in the community who went what the hell
sandbox has already voted why are we even doing this I was one of them right
away yeah I mean rightfully so I guess it's a mathematical question at that
point what was even the point what and you know if we compare this to you
exactly it is a waste of time but also if you compare this to conventional
securities I touched on this a little bit before the live show yeah yeah
conventional securities if you go buy a stock yes you have some voting power in
proposals and this is very much running sort of similar to that where the
proposals are getting sort of curated and then anybody who has
share ownership of the Dow can then vote in that but at the moment if the
sandbox came through and the community didn't care then their weight would be
enough to easily do the 51% or whatever and in combination with their land
ownership the sand or the sandbox already has 1% to reach a quorum just
by clicking yes yeah something the bad side oh sorry go ahead did you see this
where Seb created a Dow a sub Dow and in the sub Dow it was a proposal to
delegate or to have the Dow direct where his vote would go sure which I thought
was fascinating yeah a fascinating concept that he has a
Dow in the Dow there's lots of that yeah right a Dow within the Dow yeah that
almost like mocha verse in some ways although maybe not quite the last few
steps for a coin all that but the Dow within the Dow would direct subs voting
power within the sandow sure what do you think of that okay yeah I don't know if
crafty you want to go first because I went first on the last one I mean my
thought on that I guess
dr. metaversa says he thought is great I don't I honestly like I don't see a good
or a bad from it okay to be honest like I just because maybe I'm just like numb
to it but like that's that's just Dow ing unfortunately like there's there are
going to be organizations of some sort and this is just one that's just one
example that are gonna come in and if they realize that if this is the key
factor I guess if they realize that they can come in and do stuff like extract
money for things they are going to buy up a lot of sand and collectively do
that and extract the money and walk away with it it I mean it's just I see it it
happens like this is I don't think that I wouldn't expect the people that hold
sub token to be malicious anyway anyway because I but I also don't know how
people are getting sub I don't either I tried to figure that one out but but
but yeah I know exactly how they get it they all seem to have about a million
how do they get it Joseph yeah yeah so were you a landowner yeah yeah you just
had to fill out a form that he put out on his social media posts fill this out
when I'll send you said I don't know a month ago two months ago a month I do
remember look at right now a random yeah about it yes it was that and are you an
avatar holder yeah claims there was a claim button could have clicked off of
his social media so it's really just literally engaging with Seb directly oh
gosh that allowed you to get Seb token now missed all that said how does that
impact or where's the value right good news is it's probably gonna be weighted
in land owners and weighted in avatar owners people who are vested in the
ecosystem bad news he also did some giveaways for hey um did you ever take a
selfie with me show me your selfie in this comment section and I'm gonna
air drop you said yeah and I went man this is stupid as hell but and I didn't
I didn't even submit my own because I went to go look and whatever I think I
know I've taken photos with him before but also I can't find where those photos
are and I was like I'm gonna go back to your point about people extracting value
out of an ecosystem actually when I saw that he was gonna make a
Seb token and saw the sort of the way he was doing it I got a bit frustrated
because I look at that this is nothing to do with the sandbox it's apparently
starting to but I looked at it is sort of like a grift you know what I mean
what's like rift what is that a drift is where you basically you take your
social clout to say give me money only because I'm cool you know what I mean
like people are gonna buy Seb token potentially on the maybe possible chance
that Seb token number go up and who's holding all of it Seb right and he has
all of the controlling ownership of it that's cool what he will do inevitably
is say now if you hold Seb token you have voting power over my voting power
in the sandbox game which will incentivize people to buy Seb token and
that would in turn turn to him saying we're going to fully decentralize Seb
token so you guys have all the power in saying what I want to do with my sandbox
shares and they will buy it all from him
and so he gets to make money out of thin air
for no reason because he could just listen to his community and vote
accordingly does that make sense and this that's a
very pessimistic way to look at it that's a very rude way to look at him
capitalizing on his social credit but that's really what this is in any of
these tokens as crafter mentioned this happens a lot in Dows people do it all
the time because when you think about why a token exists a token only exists
for its utility and the only utility for Seb is commanding Seb to vote a certain
way in the sandbox game got it which yeah so yeah okay anyway that's Seb token
and I would never make a Joe token I'll tell you that but that's me
all right fair I don't I mean I thought it was a great idea until you said that
he's not currently selling the Seb token and that's correct Dr. Metaverse so he's
not selling the Seb token to your knowledge you know what I mean does does
it get sold on DeFi later it's a question mark and the thing is I get
that he's not selling it it's not sold anywhere he made it very clear that it's
not for sale
is anyone at any point I wonder how his Dow works can somebody vote
setting up a liquidity pool and now it's a liquidity pool which they're almost
certainly already has been one created if I went and looked on wherever he
built it if it's built on poly then I go look on polygon scan for a liquidity
pool and it probably already exists and then it gets into that shifty territory
for me personally it is what it is I like it as a pure concept if it's pure
uncommercialized but that's not how decentralized finance works you know
then it's fine whatever if he's just giving away tokens to say it's voting
power then it's yeah but it's just one of those things where I feel like I see
writing on the wall though historically he has not shown any evidence as to why
that could be there I just don't like the concept in general yeah okay I I hope I
hope that I like to hope that it's just like a fun thing for him that he's just
trying to do but I do also see like there is the possibility for what what
you're explaining as well so hopefully and like like you said there isn't
really any anything out there that would like lead me to believe that he would be
doing something like that but it like also like you said that is a possibility
like yeah and and I I have been here long enough to know that not everyone is
who they seem to be on the front page where you see them so I'm and I'm not
saying that sub isn't who he is but you never know and yeah he's a great person
so far he's been great he's never done anything that would lead me to believe
that he would be shifty you know what I mean he was good it's just one of those
things that gives me the ick personally it's not about can it it's a can it
happen not a will it happen I don't believe it would happen but you know
should it have happened it should it have happened was my question when I
first saw it I was like like I probably would have been an AMA and been like
how should I vote like get in this word and tell me how to vote you know because
yeah you run the company that would have given me better like faith whatever it
is what it is so pivot to a different type of question we touched on it a
little bit but lessons should we learn from other dowels and in parentheses and
incorporate into us or avoid
I think real quick you have something that I'm gonna let crafter run it oh
yeah got wireless headset that second still here oh perfect perfect hopefully
your mic's off but yeah I would say I would say there's definitely lessons to
be learned and and the thing that also I would say is that I'm no expert in
dows by any means I've only I've just participated in a handful of them and
just more so spectated but also participated I did a little bit of both
with the ape coin Dow specifically I did submit an AIP and go through that
process just to kind of get familiar with what the heck a Dow even is and how
it works so that was a fun experiment that yeah actually was would have passed
if one if one whale didn't decide that he's too cool and likes to shit on
people but machi big brother but other than that experience like it's from
just like my perspective on dow's it just there's there's so much behind the
scenes that goes on that most people that are interacting with dow's don't
realize is happening and I think that that's probably something that just is
always gonna happen right like that's that's always happening in the world so
I think you just have to accept that and then figure out ways to combat some of
the the the negative things that could go on within within dow's and that's
like so that's my perspective and then from there it's like do I know or have
really any ideas on on ways to do that and implement things no but I do see
just from watching other dow's I do see interesting approaches and interesting
proposals that come through that I'm like huh like that's interesting like I
wonder I wonder if that could work and most of the time they get voted down
because they do have a potential to work and the whales don't like when there's
potential for their power to get taken away so they vote no so that's fine
that's yeah so like that's like the that's the that's the thing that I've
witnessed over and over and over again where it's like oh something good is
coming through that I think like it kind of makes sense that it could make this
doubt work better and then it just wait wait wait wait I got got small detour
who is a whale in the sandbox what like what is the definition of a whale in our
community that is a very good question I I honestly haven't really looked into
analytics on sandbox stuff in a long time how do you even determine that I
don't know I have no idea how that works basically if you just take the sandbox
and you throw that part out and you just think about what is a whale it's like a
thing of that part right it's only has a lot of assets yeah like someone with a
lot of the coin or a lot of the assets or whatever yeah I mean to specifically
name drop people is hard to do these these days because a real whale owns a
lot of sand token and not a lot of land but early on a whale would have enough
land to be dominant right when land was worth five ETH so it depends on the
direction of the cycle in the direction of the company to define what a whale
is but from a small perspective the community I think is generally gonna
say do you have ten twenty thousand dollars worth of sand or land your whale
because you are outside of the reasonable
onboarding group you are you were early and you're outside the norm right yeah
because if you look at the actually yeah especially if you look at the special
council the advisory board right and the regions that those people's teams come
from look at their daily or annualized earnings tell the sandboxes alternative
branch in Argentina people in Argentina can only make annually about forty
seven hundred bucks a year US dollar so if you're holding a year's salary for
them you're a whale right crazy they can't save that you know what I mean so
it's a fascinating point for those emerging countries you look at like
people who are playing in alpha season 1 2 & 3 a lot of those folks were from
like the Philippines or they're from India or whatever and they're looking at
I don't have to go to work because I can just play this game and it earns me more
than going to wherever you know who are playing axi infinity we're doing the
same thing they were quitting their job because they're making 300 US dollars a
day in a place where you can't make you know 10 grand a year why wouldn't you
screw it I don't have to go to work anymore right and but that creates
economies around these things like the reason why Southeast Asia has been
really good at embracing crypto is because this is literally life-changing
money for a lot of these countries so it's really easy to get a center for
economic development built around the sandbox game in Southeast Asia because
there's money to be made here and it's easier for the sandbox game to to pitch
that as well so let me wrap it all back Dr. Metaverse so said in the chat that
he one of the accounts that he was told by someone who owned 700 San was that he
can sit here she considered someone who owned more than 1 million San to be a
whale well I mean that it falls in that same category like a true whale in terms
of like governance voting power is someone who can drop a few million
points and like somebody who makes the needle move you know us at the council
when we vote we move the needle for depending on what stage of the vote it
was I think we only moved it like 0.1% just on one vote that was after the
sandbox had voted with their 27 mil or whatever and but we looked at that like
what do we really change when we make the vote gosh and but there would
definitely be people who would look at us to say we're whales because we've got
not lands but estates you know we've got a good portion of sand or we're able to
just on any given Sunday go buy your stuff in the marketplace because it
looks good you know huh it's it's a dynamic that you you know most of the
users well hell let me let me relate it another way most people who live in the
United States don't have $400 in their savings account if they had a $400
emergency today they couldn't afford it so if you have more than $400 in your
savings account you are a whale in the United States of America we're all way
well I shouldn't say we're all financial situations but yeah but it's it's just
one of those things where you know everything is that's a very sobering
thing yeah that then um um I mean I don't want to um I am nervous and afraid
of being sucked into that world I I've been in crypto for a little while
mm-hmm I got in sand when it was earlier yeah I don't consider myself a whale
but maybe that's something a whale would say I would agree I've ran in that same
situation you know I've lost more money than I can remember like you've heard it
if you've been watching shows that I've been on you've heard it but at the same
time I wouldn't consider myself a whale because realistically I don't make by a
traditional financial sense I don't make enough money to be middle class in the
US middle class I don't even know what they really define that as now but yeah
that's that's an elusive term now my regular salary we don't make enough to
get up into those middle tax brackets even you know what I mean yeah but for
holdings of crypto they're like I remember one day I was at the time I was
doing the sandbox live streams but I was also working at a local school and I was
like their after-school program coordinator right and I was like hey I
need to go take a lunch real quick I gotta be right back there's something
happening that I'm seeing on my computer I need to go fix it I go home click
click click I come back to work and she's like so what you have to do and I
was like nothing I just made like $25,000 and she goes what and I was
yeah yeah it was crazy look at this this is this is what I'm doing and like she
was like you gotta tell me all about crypto right now you know and it's one
of those things where you get lost easily but also you don't forget at least
from my perspective I don't forget like that when I lived a block away from
where I live right now like I come home and I have butter sandwiches you know
what I mean like we did not have money and we don't come from money and so I'm
still eating ramen every day and I'm doing the normal stuff but yeah anyway
we're so far off yeah well then that's important because crafter you know had
had an opinion about how the whales just come in and dump their voting power all
over the place and and I'm thinking well shit am I am I one of those am I
considered that where I would become a curse word just by virtue of of how I've
decided to invest and win I mean that that makes me sad because I don't feel
like I want like I don't feel like I want to I have some secret motive to
illuminati the way the power and all that and yeah and I don't know it's just
a weird place to be in the I guess give you some reassurance I think that the
the negative perspective on whales in the Dow culture at least that there's
whales out there like there's whales like we just described described like
you could maybe be considered a whale I don't I don't know what you have but but
like the and then there's like mega whales that that have in this scenario
the sandbox is like a mega whale in in the ape coin Dow there's like three
wallets that that can swing a vote yes or no if they all vote the same the same
or sometimes even opposite if there if one is not aligned with it but the other
two vote one way that that's what's happening in the vote no matter what I
don't know if that's the way it is now I haven't really kept tabs on that it
went down a while but that's how it was yeah so like that's that's like that's
where that's the negative whale aspect to dow's that when that happens where
it's like yeah exceedingly amount or I don't know that's not the right word but
a huge a huge amount of voting power where they if they coordinate they just
decide everything basically that's actually interesting because I so I own
mutant apes I didn't own any board apes but I owned a few mutant apes and I own
some of the other side and when a coin dropped I got a bunch of it right not a
ton of it but talk about my big brother you talk about Franklin yeah those
people have a disproportionate amount of it but that was disseminated based on
how many apes did you own and you got a certain weight right and the way that
the this is this is a little bit of a different monster right because sand
has been disseminated in a barely decentralized way but also it was bought
in a highly centralized way if that makes sense or it doesn't make sense
what do you mean okay so ape coin when it was given out you it just wasn't for
sale it was we're gonna make a Dow and you have voting power based on your
current investment in the board apioc club the mutant apioc club and the other
side and they had proportions and then after that was put up people were like
great I'm gonna get this much ape airdropped to me and it's worthless
except for the Dow and then they used the Dow to give value to ape sandbox
comes at it from the other direction of sand has value in the marketplace
already to purchase assets it has value to purchase lands and now that you have
sand because you purchased sand to be able to buy these other things or you
earned it during a play to earn mechanic now you have your ability to use it in
the Dow so the the good side is you probably don't have whales that have a
ton of voting power and you've seen that in these votes relative to the sandbox
the bad side is that you don't have people who are necessarily vested in
the future if you get into that whale situation right so what we can learn
that we avoid from what ape coin did is try not to have one person like machi or
Franklin be able to come in and say ubiquitously no we cannot do that
because they're not necessarily interested in the future
they're only interested in their wallet
got it I see
but not everyone has that foresight some people who have a bunch of ape were
literally just high and bought a shit ton of apes
and now they have all this power in their community
I don't think we have that in the sandbox but
the potential for that is sort of there as time goes along
got it we're not careful okay yeah that was just an interesting thing
that popped in my head that I wanted to get a little more
clarity on but Joseph go back to we were you were just about to talk about what
lessons we should learn from other Dows and you were up next
yeah sure so I think the thing that we need to learn
as as a community when we're voting is that you have to focus on the
fundamentals of what a business needs what this place
needs and then relate that to what you find to be acceptable as a voter
so I'll give you the current rundown of the sandbox because I happen to know it
and there's about 200 people who work there at peak it was 350
or thereabouts when I was working there that 350
person staff had enough they had enough money in their coffers
to pay for those people to work for about three years this is a year and a
half ago the only way that they can pay for those people
is actually listed in that white paper that you mentioned
and I found out that the last time I mentioned this on any type of podcast I
actually did the math a little wrong by rereading the white paper
and wrong in a bad way so if you go to the sand section of
the white paper I don't know if this is still true but I believe that it is
true sand has something they call the fee capture model
which is five percent of all transaction volume carried out in sand tokens
shall be allocated with 50 percent or 2.5 percent of the total allocated to
the staking pool as rewards for token holders that stake
sand tokens if you can't stake you can't do this in the United States
personal point of frustration and 50 percent to the
foundation the foundation is tsp limited it's the company of the
sandbox right so what does that mean if you're
hiring 200 people to work and they make forty thousand
dollars each a year maybe I'm shooting high but I think
this is true because they've got people all over the world some of them make
four thousand dollars a year some of them making a lot more if they
average 40k a year that means they need to make eight million dollars
right I have heard you say this before yes
now the first time that I said it I accounted that on that five percent
capture because I assumed the five percent
capture but if they still do the staking rewards program
and it's actually only 2.5 percent capture which means their volume of
trade that they need on the marketplace to continue to do exactly what they've
been doing so far is about 320 million dollars last time
I said it was 160 million because I didn't re-read the white paper
didn't like I said I didn't have a full understanding of their financial
situation maybe they got cash on hand maybe they
don't but let's assume they get to the end of
their cash on hand let's assume they get to the end of the
free sand train that means that I think the most important thing
that this community needs to do is make sure that the sandbox
can make eight million dollars so focus on things
that increase the volume of trade in the marketplace
and the way that they do that is to fix problems that
you're having right now lancer fix the catalyst issue that you're having
as a dev fix your ability to make a revenue
as a dev off of the games that you produce
and ways that we could do that is to allow for you
to have uh cd keys or access passes right that you can
mint in the not tens of thousands but in the millions
because millions of copies of call of duty are sold
let's pretend for a second that the sandbox game
is epic games they're selling millions of units
not 10 000 units stop pretending like it's a 10k pfp
right we need to do this correctly for game devs i think
then change eliminate catalyst change the minting system
matic and sand flat rate matic is a flexible rate because minting on
polygon sand is a flat rate that's revenue for
the sandbox they get a five percent capture on your
sale and resale on the marketplace but you want to mint any number of whatever
you want that's great now we change the catalyst system to
just four sliders
feed whatever 100 total points allocate it however you want on four sliders of
the same four stat we've eliminated catalysts you don't
need them you've got the gems mechanics still there
the stat sheet and it's not random i don't know if you've minted before i
know you have it pisses you off when you go to mint a
legendary and it's not 100 points
why would i do this now i put four in that motherfucker and i only get like 76
i'm like oh my god you know that people want speed you know
that people want power so you could just go power that's what
i'm selling i'm selling a power set you know what i mean like it would
be easier peep consumers will want to buy your stuff
if you know what the beat is on the street and as developers as a sandbox
how do they adjust for this uh if people find if people magically
realize that luck is too goddamn strong then the devs on the back end can go
we've adjusted the tunement for luck and it's now balanced and they put it on
the road map yeah right you put it on the road map it's
very easy buffing things and yeah and okay so now
now you've got the other side right because i want to avoid people being
pissed off so i put this in my sip existing mints are worth
120 percent of their natural stat line has it already been minted right so now
you're saying that only has 80 points is worth math 96
points of power it only had 80 points of power before
because we didn't want people who wasted their money on catalysts
i'm putting that in air quotes but i mean that so you have wasted their time
and money now minting early we want to reward the early
mentors that that's a fix all future mint that's a good
compromise i'd i'd back that yes so now you would what what would
that do that would increase the volume of trade of
assets on the marketplace because instead of getting
a bunch of bullshit this only got 77 points when you wanted 100 you've got
everything has 100 points of stat on one line or it's got 50 points on two
lines or it's got 33 points on three lines you know what i mean
well rounded gear or min max gear what does a player want it depends on
how they play and then you've got the ability for
devs to be financially incentivized to come and make a game they're betting on
themselves because they minted their access passes
to a certain number they know if they sell all the access
passes they get a certain amount of money and devs would be incentivized to
not just publish on the sandbox game but market
that you should come buy your shit over here on the sandbox game so devs start
marketing to get people to buy their stuff and
real development teams see this now let's compare it with the other
platforms i want to publish on google play
well google play has taken a 30 overhead apple 30 overhead epic games takes a 20
overhead i think and steam is taking a 30 overhead
roblox the sandbox is taking five percent the sandbox is taking five
percent and if you sell out all your access
passes when they resell to someone else your
developer can get another five percent forever
constantly funding updates to their game yeah
it's a great thing in theory not that hard why is this not the standard
practice i think this is what the dow can do this is
what lessons should be learned from other dows because we watch people
dump money away we've watched people put piss poor
planning into i mean you probably know that
expression military guy yeah yeah the it's just
you know we can do it correctly the question is
will it be done correctly and i think that one of the more important lessons
that we have to have if i'm a special council member
is to not get so caught up in your own great ideas
as to ignore the community right because that's what's going to be the big
more of these issue with the sandbox yeah cool
and that concludes his ted talk yeah slash his uh his nomination
for the special council so you would run if if that were to
what i want yeah sure why not you know but i i would only
i think i would find that to be quite interesting um
go on well i've had uh i have i had a history
a history yeah so i worked there yeah i've worked for the sandbox um currently
i do live stream right and um
i'm going to continue to do the good and professional thing right
especially when i'm on the official sandbox live stream i'm going to continue
to represent the company well um i don't work there i don't have a
current contract with them um however i am still an ambassador i was
previously the lead ambassador in charge of all those people
um but big deal 2021
um i got tired of getting yelled at on live streams
and just said hey can you please like actually
communicate as you mentioned yeah because i'm the face i'm literally the
face of the sandbox at that time the most frequently on their official
twitch and whatever um i had had previous experiences during land sales
where there's literally 1200 people on a live stream
as the number yelling at me because the website doesn't work
and they can't buy land and so much so i remember those days
desperately to get to me so i was trying to get into the live stream
and so anyway that history leads to me going fix this shit
in closed forums you know what i mean because i'm not going to go out
publicly and be like this isn't working i'm going to present solutions to the
community and prove that we were doing the work right and
at the same time you know confidentially speaking
i'm there uh getting yelled at by all these people
while i'm on slack going how the fuck did you do this wrong it
worked last week like did you know yeah so
things that happen behind closed doors here's where the if i'm if i'm on the
special council this is the good and the bad thing
because if i'm on the special council representing the dow i would be saying
to them who are currently working there including
seb here's the community's problem here's the
timeline that we have to fix it fix this shit you know and like that's
good as a community member but that's bad that's friction on the
other side i ran into the same problem uh later the last time before the gma
issue was cancelled off the official channel
um because i was doing it you know five days a week and whatever
and there was a new ceo in the us who is currently not the us ceo but it
didn't matter he'd been there maybe three months and he said
we have a meeting and it's the fourth thursday in november
it's a company-wide meeting y'all live in the united states you know what i'm
saying here that's thanksgiving and i was like i've
invited to my brand new home uh 27 members of my
extended family because i just moved in in august
i've spent four thousand dollars on food and furniture to facilitate these
people to show up i'm not going to be there for that
meeting and their reply was interesting in a very public slack channel with
lots of people in it and then it's interesting that you should
and you should do a meeting at that time boss
right right i saw it as somebody who works in the us they understand and i
was like it's thanksgiving i can't be there right
ultimately the meeting gets moved because the people in france are more
rational right than the us work expectation which is show up when i tell
you to show up you know what i mean and i've never really been that culture
like i've hired a thousand people over various jobs that i have been
management i've never been that person i will give
exemptions to you for your personal or religious needs or
whatever as long as business can continue to operate and there was nothing
we were going to do in that meeting that was so critical
the business was not going to continue to operate yeah
ultimately the meeting gets moved but a couple of weeks later they go hey we're
terminating your stuff i said why and they said budget
cuts i said okay but what about budget cuts made me eligible
for the termination specifically like what did i do differently than the
other folks who are in these positions and the reply was budget cuts
and i was like oh okay that's going to be this conversation great got it
have a nice day right so anyway uh i think there's there's there's
some friction i would love to be a representative for these people
because all of that being said i would you know i came back
we're doing the gmae show for the community still
i'm doing it on a personal channel i'm doing it on the official channel at
least once per game jam still doing it in a very highly
professional way we're taking care of people
because it's about people um and that's that's my thing i would love
the special counsel to continue to be about the people and about the future of
the platform so and what i do it yeah sure
anyway crafter would you special counsel probably not no um
i think all that power i i just don't i don't think that i uh
i don't know maybe i just don't think i think there's more more um
more people that i would like i mean i would love to see joseph there
uh to like go over me um i would love to
advise and and help be like a voice for the community and stuff absolutely but
um i just don't i personally one i don't i don't feel motivated to be a special
council member so like that's probably not a good start
um and but but advising and and and helping guide guide the dow absolutely
um it's just i i don't even know but as i'm like saying this like i don't
even know what the special counsel is in charge of and what they do so maybe i
maybe i would be qualified for i don't know i don't know like i don't think any
of us really know what the special counsel's duties are specifically right
now so they're they're mostly in charge of thumbs
up thumbs downing uh proposals on redundancy legality right
before they went to community vote they they get a special council vote
yeah yeah i would i would i intend to throw my name in the hat
i i feel like this is what i've been building my life toward gaming business
like all all of my experiences have led me to
something like this and i'm i feel ready i feel motivated i want to i want to see
this dow i want to see this community succeed
and we've i've seen it up and i've seen it down
and yeah i want to be part of the solution
i feel like i feel like that that sentiment is
the vast majority of at least the active san fam community um and that's
that's what that's what keeps me coming back to the sandbox stuff like the if
if that weren't the case i don't know i doubt i would be here but like with the
the community and everyone's hopes and and
uh vision for where things can go it it feels
it it continues to feel like there is that possibility
yeah it is it is happening it's just slow
um and without that i don't i think i mean i guess without without that would
there even be a sandbox probably not like what i don't know yeah i see all the
ingredients just how do we put it together so we
can beat the pants off roblox right
all right um how should we approach dow management and leadership
crafter what are your thoughts on how should we and you can use this as a as a
community as an individual what what do you think that approach
should look like i mean
i really just think that all of the things that are happening inside the
dow need to be up for votes um so i think that as soon as
things are in order things should be voted on i don't i don't think
i don't and i guess i i don't have like a an idea of what i expect the timeline
to be but if the timeline is less than this
year and a half or whatever that everyone's in their in their positions i
if things are up and running and it seems like
the community would be involved in a vote to
to get people into places that um that they
they deem these people should be in charge of
then i think we should have a vote on that and like that's how it down works
and do you that so that's what you think the next step should be i'll just roll
i'll combine seven and eight together so you think your net next step should be
to vote in more people um possibly i uh i think more clarity would
would be great around and maybe there is more clarity out there and i just
haven't done good enough research on it but i have listened to a lot
of conversation around this but like more clarity on
the positions that are already in place would be a good first step and then
and then from there next steps i think would be
um coming up with a team that is going to be
full-time focused on this dow and making making this dow happen and yeah
making it happen happen right uh because i feel like that's
the only way that it's really going to happen and get done right is if we have
people that are 100 focused on it and making
making it into what it needs to be otherwise
who knows what it's going to turn into at least if we have if we have a
roadmap in place and a vision on where we're trying to drive
things and and we we use the voting process to get there
um i think we'll we'll be good but we need
we need people in places to to support that effort
otherwise it's going to be discombobulated and
nice and it's just going to be all over the area that turn in a while man
that's that's good one that's a good one i don't know where that came from it's
in here deep but it came up so there you go
cool man cool yeah joseph what do you think yeah
okay so i'm going to take him as two different chunks dow management
okay dow management first is uh let's assume this is about the dow
itself uh the pitch the proposal they have from sip one
through three doesn't cover the dow existing past
december of 2025 if you are to have people running this
program then the dow needs to have the ability to
make money right now it's been given money by the
sandbox the 15.5 million sand it needs to
have a dedicated revenue stream somehow how does that possibly happen it could
happen by the sandbox committing a percentage of
its sea capture model to the dow to pay it financing from
you know one hand into the other essentially or
the dow itself needs to have a proposal that says
that you know when people vote they disseminate i don't know
0.01 sand goes to the dow per vote or something you know just
dow top up fun yeah whatever it is there needs
something so someone needs a dow tip that continues to finance it because
now um in terms of leadership people probably won't want to pay for
dow management if the managers don't appear to be doing
anything right so when you look at the leaders
the leaders have to prove it not just tell me what you can do
but tell me what you will do and what you have done
i'm not just talking about a roadmap which is important a roadmap would be
that that's it template metrics for success
yes if you don't have metrics that i can track and metrics that you can prove
then where are we going you know yeah what are we doing what are we doing
here guys yeah so the community's not gonna pay
40 grand to yatsu next year if this year yatt doesn't prove yatt did
forty thousand dollars worth of work and the interesting thing about if
as somebody who lives in the u.s 40k okay that's not bad i guess it's more
as an individual earner i think that's that's like
sixteen thousand dollars less than the median in the u.s
right but obviously somebody in argentina who might have voting power
would go damn you make way too much money
like why should i vote yes to this right so it'll be
it'll be interesting to see if we do get financing for the dow
what does the community find to be acceptable
financing for these people to run it um so that's something that that we have
to consider we have to approach we have to work through one thing that i've
that i've noticed in previous dows is that when these re-election periods
come up that's when the entire like community of whatever
that now is for shows up and that's always the
conversation is how much are they making what are they doing why are we paying
them that much like it's that that is the focus of of
these election periods and um i don't i don't know how you get
around it i guess but like other than having people that are actually
like setting a standard and showing like what
what what a special council member does to
to help the dow what a an advisor does to help
the dow like if there's good if there's good role models
that are ahead of this vote um then i think you then you can like look at the
candidates and be like oh yeah i could see this person
doing similar similar stuff to to that person
um but i think maybe where all that friction comes from a lot of times is
that either it hasn't been transparent and
people don't know what these people have been doing
or they just haven't been doing anything and that's when
the people that start showing up start being like
angry about the the the budget basically of what's going to these people
yeah yeah i'll tell you what though when nominations come around
i'm doing a podcast and i'm gonna like my slides i'm gonna start listing off
here's what i'm going for here's my intent here's my platform you vote for
me this is what i expect to be doing and then i'm gonna you know i don't know i
like visuals i think they help they help me at least
like this is my plan this is what i'm gonna put down on paper so i can hit
milestones and here's how i know i'm 16 here's how i
know i'm failing that's that's how i do it sure for me
good times all right joseph what do you think are the next steps
what should i write down as your yeah definitely the next steps are
um make sure that it exists after 2025 uh because it doesn't right now
and um kpis um numbers accountability show me don't tell me show me what
key performance indicators yeah cool so that's that's it
yep uh i'm about kpis i'm a big fan of establish
metrics so it really for me would be a roadmap
uh i think i can derive kpis out of a roadmap
or or some sort of intent statement um when i when i look at milestones for a
program that tells me what the intent is and what they're what they're moving
toward so it would be establish
milestones uh for dow and that's from the leadership so we
the leadership was elected let's say yeah that's that's fair phrase elected
via sip and so so what so what now what is their what is their plan of action
and and then the second thing is communication i mean as far as if i were
in their role right now i would be doing something similar to what we're doing
but with the board like hey maybe every board meeting needs to be a live stream
and you can you can manage that however you'd like to shut off
you know make chat really specific or whatever
um but i would be i would have the slides as part of our agenda like that's
what we would do and some other things have been a part of
is the agenda would be slides the discussion would be like it is now where
we go through the points we go through what we want i mean
some things will be closed door got it but not all of it not even most of it in
my opinion and in my experience in running programs
so there's a lot of benefit from you know i can see icebergs and we can
advise them of icebergs while we're watching like if if something
what was that video of um elon musk when he was at the at the shuttle launch
place and he was given an interview something
about thrusters or whatever and he goes well blah blah blah and then
we we saw the problem of thrusters and then the dude
who was giving uh it was video team was like well that's only for
that's only for like the left engine right and then
elon was like you know now that you mentioned it
mention it um that's something we got to fix and like live
live saved a shuttle from exploding because
the dude gave like feedback that i like that
that's cool to me that's there's a lot of power like i've been watching doctor
minniverso and all that it's smart to you know have minutes i
think like if you look at it like a city council meeting that's basically that
there's no reason that can't be public those are public this can be public
you know i mean it's very like it's decentralized right
like that's what we're going for but the but then
some of the stuff is behind closed doors that no one that is in
that is part of the decentralized force yeah yeah yeah i mean some people may be
really shy and i and i get that so it's kind of like a weight balancing
the wrong role you know what i mean well you can be a really good
administrator city council nobody goes up for city council that's
like super shy you know there there are people and they go
okay well i got to get used to sitting here and ultimately it's still going to
be like the seven same seven people in the room or whatever
you know the same people watching the same live streams
the same voices they're expressing the same concerns but
you can leave the chat up and completely ignore chat like they just
if they did it i really like this idea that you mentioned to make it public
to put it up on live forum with this because it's easy for them to make
minutes show it on the screen covered exactly like you have on this podcast
and just say these are the sips why yes why no and the good thing that
would happen from that is let's say as i mentioned i think if anybody's going to
deny a thing on a sip it's going to be because they're
already working on it inside internally in the sandbox based on what they've
said before and it's probably going to be um you
know seb doing that so if seb is the only person
universally saying we can't do that then that might do a good thing
community-wise and reveal that this is the obstruction that we have as a
dow yeah because i want to look at this isolated as a dow right
not look at this as the sandbox as you know this um but the platform
right now is only 15.5 million sand and they're going to get another whatever
100 million plus uh over the next year or so just free
unlocking sand so it's uh i'm interesting to see how this develops
yeah i'm a i'm a big fan of visuals and just get out in the open like iron
sharpens iron man it's we're here to make it better and then
you know you can you can tell sometimes when that's not always the case with
some people or they're they're um i don't know it's
i feel strongly about it but enough of that
from uh
okay joseph this is where i want to end it man
it was part of the plan the whole time
sure so let's open up the white paper the official white paper
version i got it i got it here 2020 subsection 3.5 sand 3.5 he says
3.5
this is a huge wipe here man it's gonna take me like three podcasts to get
through yeah i thought i thought joseph was just
reciting this off the top of your head that would be even better i
have it on my screen i was like oh wow i don't do anything off the top of my
head i'll tell you that right now the good thing and the bad thing about me is
i don't remember shit but i always know where to get it
yeah yeah i'm in the same boat that's that's why i need my visuals
bullet point number two right there governance sand is a governance token
so this is we're talking 2020 2020 until 2024
june this is a fucking lie right but this is what was always sold
sand is a governance token that allows holders to participate in governance
decisions of the platform using a dao structure the dao doesn't
exist until now the structure was obfuscated
until now at least now we know what the structure is
creators spend sand to acquire assets oh i'm sorry that's that's the access
um they can exercise voting rights on key elements such as foundation grant
attributions which is most of what this is
you've got foundation money here um to content and game creators and
feature prioritization on the platform roadmap
so it's suggested here that people can suggest
features for the platform that's what this said in the white paper
it also suggests that the money will come from the foundation
the foundation being the sandbox so according to the white paper if this
is still the same plan as what always was
the money will always come from the sandbox's pocket into the dao's pocket
at the end of december 2025 it should happen again
how much money is allocated into it that is the part that we need to use the dao
to make clarity on so far it's 20 or 25 million seven
zero mentioned that a couple times yeah so allocated to this budget at the
moment is 15.5 million whereas the realized like if he just
said it out loud that's cool but that could change tomorrow
i'm sure i'm saying that as somebody who has watched things change tomorrow
a thousand times write it down write it down show me don't tell me
and the you know it says saying donors can vote themselves or
delegate voting rights to other players of their choice
there has been no such delegation right there's nothing in the dao that says i
can tell crafter what it is however it's been said out
loud that in the future that would be possible
so probably through a set right yeah like crafter using my voting power to
vote for a sip delegation i haven't seen that so it's
still there on the white paper there's nothing about essentially there's
nothing about this dao that wasn't already told to us
that would come the question is now the minutia the implementation of it and
that was in the details yeah how do we make it better
so okay i did not read um most of this white paper i read a little bit of it
but i i didn't even if i even three years ago if i had seen the word
dao i wouldn't have known what i was looking at anyways
sure and that's the fair fair point if you go back through it now
if you go back through this you're gonna find a lot of it that's gonna make sense
and it's going to have been done and you're going to also find a lot of it
that just never happened so yeah it'll be
can we get back to these roots the white paper is what sold this product
if everything that was written here is done then i think number goes up
you know well i already have a podcast on the list of going through the white
paper and comparing it to the dao it's a little bit down there
but you know yeah i'm gonna do that i'm gonna read their articles of
incorporation as a podcast i'm gonna i'm gonna give this
thing a nice scrub so i can be ready i want to be ready
cool i did not realize that thanks joseph yeah no problem
crafter do you have any yeah crafty do you have any questions you want to add
i don't really actually have any questions off the top of my head to be
honest all right i feel like we did a good job
of covering some things though here yeah we we went the distance
yeah joseph what are you man what are you thinking man
just yeah yeah i don't know man show me show me some show me some results
show me who you are show out they've done a lot of good amas in
different time zones i guess but they're basically all on x or twitter
so like yeah that's isolating so much of your community away
there's um show me how you're gonna use that 40 000
annual or whatever it is uh worth of sand that you actually put in 40 000
dollars worth of time out there to bring the community into this
dow vote inform yourselves as special counsel or whatever but
that's it no real questions more so like
yeah comment crafter what do you what is your closing thoughts closing thoughts
what did i say i was skeptically skeptically
wait wait wait i can quote you cautious i don't remember
cautiously skeptical cautious cautiously skeptical
um i believe i still am cautiously skeptical
um but
i do believe that if the right things happen
this could be a very very cool um successful thing we just need to
continue to talk about it honestly is probably the one of the more important
things because i i feel like every time i am in a
discussion about about the dow and what discussions like this new new things pop
in my head and and i'm like oh well maybe maybe
things if we go this direction things are going to work a little bit
differently and that's a good thing so like i i think the open
communication needs to continue yeah and and i think that um they're
definitely like trying to involve the the community but i think even more
effort could be put into that um i i don't know how and like
it's tough because like getting in the forums for
for the dow uh like i it's hard for me to even like remember to go
go in there and check them so like like yeah i don't i don't know like
what needs to be done to get more like engagement and awareness around
everything but um i don't know maybe maybe it'll just be like a slow slow
thing over time but it it i don't know hopefully
hopefully hopefully people start participating more because otherwise
it's just going to be kind of like almost like a stand still
yeah we go out in a slow whimper yeah yeah no um i guess basically they're
not on my watch put a bow on everything is if you are
part of the sam fam or just even interested in the sandbox start
showing up and voicing your opinions i know a lot of you are but even if you're
uh if you're not yet continue to do so uh and and and do it constructively
that's that's probably a good a good thing to put out there do it
constructively and and have where you can at least advice on what
you think could be could be done because who knows maybe your
maybe your idea will spark uh the the next sip that yeah
pushes the needle forward so and instead a different way
should you choose to do it constructively you are much more likely to
be heard true yep i can confirm
that yeah i don't think it's moderated on the discord
some people get pissed off because they'll say fud
right but it's always when people just say you suck
and you're like well that's great like tell me how i suck
yeah i mean let's let's get past the destruction of the language and get to
the real underlining yeah like this is what we can change
to make your experience better that's the kind of submissions that you
need for the doubt that's the kind of stuff you need to say yeah
whatever you know to come through and be like i'm pissed off it's like
okay yeah and like let's fix it right that's the point of the doubt
so joseph i know you gave a little bit of a
final thought but go ahead and have any closing remarks
uh hey don't forget to like comment and subscribe on this video
you know what i mean do you call it action here
yeah because the the conversations will continue
so um stick with them um that's really all i can stress
i've got things that i've said across multiple different conversations and
podcasts that i think are tangible solutions that's what i'm going to
present um but i don't see everything nobody
does so yeah i've heard show up say so oh
batman just batman what up batman thank you
that call to action baby wow thank you for that that
you might you might very well be my first subscriber ever i've never really
pushed it all that much it's just i like i like doing this
stuff but thank you man i appreciate that
yeah so uh thank you very much lurkers in the chat and also dr
metaverse so you were you were hella active in the chat so
thank you for giving your your thoughts about where you stand on some of this
stuff and hodl batman appreciate you both
all of you and final thoughts for me is that
i'm just excited to see where this goes i can say
the intersection for me between business and gaming
in in a way that that throws in like governance and management
and all my project management skills i i feel
feel excited so i want to be part of the solution whether that's
the council or not but i want to be here doing this stuff helping do solutions
so episode four we're about to come to a close
episode five i want to do the gathering places for a sandbox dowel
there's the my initial intro into all this
joseph and crafter was through the the mocoverse saturdays with g
he was the one that kind of turned me on to what was a dowel
what what are we even doing here i think my first thing coming off mute
when he just let me on stage i raised my hand he's like
yeah lancer go ahead i'm like hey man i don't know why i'm here
but i want to be here so can i what what do i do
and that was what began he's like oh yeah yeah so um
you can like then he goes great take great take
and he's like you know you can look it up online there's some research and like
really set me down a path to where i can say that
i feel like i can start contributing now that i understand that we're all just
trying to figure it out man we're just trying to we're all just
trying to figure it out we i thought there was like a professional
dowel thing going on it's like we're just trying to figure it out
we're we're all coming out with our ideas and all of our
our stuff and i'm just one more voice now
joseph you're a very well experienced voice and crafter we mean everyone knows
who you are you and joseph both so i appreciate your
time thanks for spending the hours here going over the details and
i'm just going to keep on hammering away at these episodes and some of these are
going to be some deep deep dives like i'm going to go ham on
those foundation articles just put on my my legal contracting
hat and just start going to town on it because i'm i'm
interested i'm i'm i'm intrigued so thank you all
love it and joseph crafter appreciate you coming out
absolutely thanks have a good night everyone yeah thanks y'all