Howdy everyone, my name is Lancer. I am excited to bring you the first inaugural
Sand Dhow podcast episode number one. This is basically a podcast we put together, I put together
very recently and all it is is just an exploration into the Sandbox Dhow from the perspective of a
community member, Sand Fam myself, and exploring that, what we think, and all the different facets
because this is the iceberg that was announced not long ago and has so many different factors to it,
so many different things that we want to explore as we bond together as a community, as we decide
what we want to do about the Sandbox Dhow and how that's going to end up affecting the Sandbox game.
So today I'm bringing on HODL Hill and Andy Richie, so two well-known voices in the community,
and we're going to get into our personal reactions for what has happened since May 28th,
all this kicked off. So welcome HODL, welcome Andy, glad, thank you very much for doing this.
Hey, hey, hey, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having us.
Cool, everything sounds good, all the checks are gone, and let's start. So as you, some of you may
not be familiar with my style of podcasting, I'm a podcaster before and I like visuals, I'm big into
data, I'm big into research, so as you all, some of you have seen before now, I was putting a lot of
of research and things together in order to put these slides, so down here, right down there,
are the slides where you can follow along with us as we talk. So this is the introduction slide,
and now we can move to slide two. So, scope of the talk, I always do this because this is the slide
that helps you and I both agree on what is we're talking about, what we're not talking about.
What we're doing here in this slide, in this podcast episode, is sharing reactions,
so Andy's reaction and HODL's reaction and my reaction to the events that have unfolded.
So that's it in a nutshell, what it isn't, we don't anticipate debating, like you're not gonna,
I doubt you're gonna see us arguing with each other a whole lot, maybe, but most, we both come,
all come to the table to discuss and to explore together, so this isn't gonna be meant to be a
hardcore debate. And yeah, that's the scope, so we're just reacting at this point, trying to
figure this out, just like everybody else is. And with that, we'll go into introductions,
and HODL, who are you, where are you from, and what's an interesting fact about yourself?
HODL? Or HODL Hill? Or whatever your name is. I'm in Canada, west coast. Most people say HODL.
HODL.
Been in the sandbox since about alpha number one. Landowner, avatar owner, general pain in the butt,
bugging all the builders, you know, and in the last year and a bit,
streamer.
Yeah, and if you don't know, HODL does streams where she will play people's games. That's where
she and I met when during Builders Challenge it, we published floor droppers at Matterworlds,
and HODL played our game, and that's where HODL and I met. So thank you again for doing that,
HODL. I appreciate that you try to go to people's games and give your comments and your feedback.
Happy to. Love the Sand Fam. Yeah. Sorry if my audio is breaking up a bit. I'm going to try shutting
some stuff down. Yeah, no problem. All right. And what's an interesting fact people wouldn't
guess about you HODL? Oh, an interesting fact that they wouldn't guess? Or just a fact that people
wouldn't get guessed. I had six wisdom teeth. You broke up there a little bit. You had six
wisdom teeth pulled. Is that what I just heard you say? Yep. All right. And six bonus ones.
All right, thanks. And Andy, go ahead. Hey. Yeah, I'm Andy Ritchie. I've been,
a lot of you know me from the sandbox. I started probably about three and a half, four years ago,
geez, a long time ago. And I just started by entering one of the game jams and then was
lucky to finish in the top 10. And from there, everything kind of took off and started streaming,
building, joined the sandbox, ran the sandbox game jams for a while, and then stepped back and
started on Boop Goop and been building Boop Goop for now for, geez, about two years. And
we created an experience for Unstoppable Domains not that long ago. And yeah, we've done a lot of
stuff in the space and that's about it really. Boop Goop. You said you were a game hand?
Yeah, well, I finished in the top 10 of game jam number three, which is originally when I entered.
And I built a game called The Land of Valentina. Gotcha. The Land of Valentina. I don't think I
played that one. I think it is playable at the moment. It's playable at the moment. Oh, it was
built in, geez, it was built a long time ago. I have opened it a couple of times. It's still like
pre-version 10 or 8 or something. No, I think version six. Oh, wow. All right. I think it was.
I can't remember why it was built in. I think the earliest we came is like version four, I think,
from the sandbox. Gotcha. All right. Thanks, Andy. And what's a fact about yourself that people
wouldn't have guessed about you? Oh, gosh. I don't know about that one. I don't know.
Don't have any interesting facts off the top of my head at the moment. I jumped out of a plate.
What are your hobbies when you're not doing sandbox stuff?
Nina. No, I like cars. Nina, my dog. Oh, you're dog. You take Nina out quite a lot.
And I like to go camping and stuff as well. You know, being so connected to the new technology
that's going on, it's nice to disconnect from that every now and again. Gotcha.
Yeah. So yeah, I like doing stuff outdoors and being adventurous. Yeah, I jumped out of a plane
when I was 16. That was fun. Escape Room says you like soccer. No. Can you ban them please from the
stream for the use of that word? All right. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate you introduce yourself,
Andy and huddle. I am Lancer and I am I come from gaming side of the house and eSports stuff.
I used to be a played Planetside to a lot, which is an MMO FPS game. And I did a lot of podcasting
streaming that stuff. Now I've been in the crypto space for a while, a sandbox and season one,
I think midway through season one. So I have avatar, I have lands and, and the like, and
just been really interested in the space and seen it evolve and develop. My background is
contract negotiations, contract writing, also program management and product owner. So I,
I have a Yeah, I'm super interested. The sound out to me is the intersection of
all of my passions and stuff. So that's one of the reasons why I started this up to get more involved.
So thank you all. Appreciate your time.
That's the intros. And let's go into the disclaimer, we wouldn't be
right if we didn't disclaim all the appropriate stuff. So first thing is, as a group and
individuals, Andy Hodl and I, we do not represent the sandbox game or the sandbox foundation.
We speak for ourselves as SanFam community members. All the stuff that goes along with that.
And last but not least, because we're in the blockchain crypto space alongside the gaming,
we are not your financial or legal advisor. Do not take anything we say as financial or legal advice.
Please do yourself that favor. We are not advocating for should you buy this or that or
where should you put your money and not what we're here to do, not in how any of our comments
need to be taken. So with that legal administrative via out of the way,
we can now get to the heart of the matter. The sandbox DAO.
So this little roadmap is to catch everybody up past, present and future,
whether you're watching this now or later on.
It all started May 20. It actually started a long time ago because the white paper and
the original vision of Seb was that the DAO would eventually be introduced, but it really hadn't
emerged in any sort of significant way until May 28. Was that two weeks ago?
Three weeks ago, on a Tuesday, May 28, I get an email in my inbox and a medium article drops
from sandbox announcing the sandbox DAO. DAO is the centralized autonomous organization.
It is basically a group surrounding a token cryptocurrency or community that organizes itself
to govern, whether that be in rules, regulations, processes. It's like an association, you call it
an organization, a nonprofit, any sort of allegory there that can help you understand it's a group
that puts rules in places so it can govern itself, usually to govern how it spends money.
And that is where the interesting thing started taking a turn when this was announced suddenly
three weeks ago, where I didn't know was going to happen. I don't know, Andy, did you know
it was going to happen?
That was in the roadmap for a long time on it, but I didn't obviously didn't predict it was
going to come upon us so quick. I don't think.
Yeah. Did you know it was going to get dropped on May 28th?
No.
Yeah. HODL, did you?
No, same like we knew. We all knew it was supposed to be there, but it...
Right.
There's a lot of things that are supposed to be there.
But none of us knew it was going to happen.
We don't know when they're going to happen.
Right. So it was dropped on that Wednesday or that Tuesday, excuse me. When it dropped,
SIPs 1, 2, and 3 were immediately made ready to vote. And that was the Sandbox Foundation.
It was the initial budget and the approval of... I forget the third one, but
those three SIPs immediately dropped. SIP 3 was... Oh, that was the budget.
SIP 2 was the foundation and SIP 1 was introducing the Sandbox Town.
Right. So that happened May 28th.
But it didn't count land as voting power. That's an important note for what happens later.
So that's May 28th. June 12th, SIP 4 and 5, the carbon neutral capture and the supporting the
Red Cross, those were made available to vote on June 12th. It did count land as voting power
in the snapshot. All right. So then June 13th, a day later, Sandbox Dow
revokes SIP 1, 2, and 3 that was introduced in May 28th and then resubmits it to count
land as voting power. Right. So initial community reaction was swift. Many people were like,
where in the world did this come from? Why weren't we consulted? And what does this all mean for us?
People were very quick to note that the voting power was not inclusive of land. It was only
inclusive of held sand and wallets. So one to one, one sand equals one voting power.
And then lands come into play where 4.5 thousand voting power was given to one land.
So that then SIP 1, 2, and 3 were introduced, reintroduced, and then put back to a vote.
Then everything starts unfurling. People are talking in the forums, but adjacent to that,
a lot of AMAs and Twitter spaces are opening up. So starting June 1st, Mochaverse Hall hosts their
first Sandbox Dow Twitter space. All right. So that was on a Saturday. That was three weeks ago.
And then June 4th, Sandbox Dow hosts its Dow AMA. And that's where Seb and Cyril and Loretta,
and Shannon, and Fred, and Shannon all answer questions. All the questions that people in the
community had. I think Andy, you were there for that one. And then June 8th, Mochaverse Hall hosts
its second Twitter space. So they host them every Saturday at 12 p.m. EST. Then Dr. Metaverse-O hosts
another Dow AMA. June 12th. So that was this past week, right? Last Wednesday.
More Q&As, more people trying to discover, explore what's going on with the Dow, how does it come to
be? Why weren't we consulted? And the whole nine. And again, some people from the special council
was there to answer. Then June 14th, two days ago, Andy, you host a Twitch interview with Peppa from
Sandrush. And Sandrush proposed the first community-introduced Sandbox improvement proposal.
So that's the first one that wasn't introduced from the May 28th announcement and the June
right after that. And then yesterday, Mochaverse hosts its third Twitter space. And again,
more community people showed up to talk about what we think. Whoops, I forgot to reorder this one.
Back at the June 12th. Whoops. Back at June 12th, SIPs four and five close. It passed the first one
with 88% of the vote and then SIP five passed with 81% of the vote. And then a day later,
SIP one, two and three close. The first SIP one passes with 89%, SIP two passes with 93%,
and SIP three passes with 64%. And then we fast forward back to where we are now with yesterday,
Mochaverse hosting the third Twitter space. And now you're all caught up. That's what happened.
Now what is what does it mean and everything that's we're about to get into. So some, some
interesting facts to ground everybody. How many SIPs have been submitted so far for vote five?
How many SIPs have passed so far? Five. Let's go with what does a SIP mean? Sandbox improvement
proposal. What is a DAO? Decentralized Autonomous Organization. All right. How many draft SIPs are
available now for community comment? Two. There's the creator first and then there's a magic palette.
And that's what Andy yesterday was talking with Pepe from Sandrush was the magic palette. Draft
SIP. You can find those in the forum. And here is so if you go up here to forum under proposal ideas,
SIP draft, then you'll find the first two right there.
All right. Each SIP requires a quorum to be eligible to pass. And that is 1% of the sand
supply which is 30 million voting power. Each SIP requires a majority to pass. Meaning 51 50% or more,
which means that when when something goes on the floor to vote, if it doesn't meet the quorum,
it doesn't matter whether it passes or fails, it will automatically fail. So it's got to reset 30
million dollar threshold 30 million voting power threshold, then it's allowed to pass or fail.
And it's only allowed to pass if it receives a simple majority which is more than 50%.
For voting power, if you own one sand in your wallet, you have one voting power per sand. If
you own one land that's worth 4500 voting power. So you can do the math and that should equal your
total voting power when you go to vote in the snapshot. All right. So there we go. Interesting
facts. Now that we're all level set. Let's start with the discussion.
Actually, I forgot about the tidbits. Let's read the tidbits. So the vision of the cell for the
website cell foundation is a steward task with administering the decisions of the Dow and managing
and managing the company operations, including management of the Treasury and employment of
the Dallas support team. The special counsel special council members provide guidance,
self improvement proposals to self improvement proposals ensuring that they align with the
sandbox Dallas vision and community interests. They also hold decision making power and can veto
proposals based on legality, redundancy, conflict and community interests. And I forgot about the
advisory board. So the advisory board sandbox Dow advisory board. They are leaders in their respective
fields. These ambassadors and strategic advisors leverage their expertise and networks to guide
the gap Dow towards its vision of a decentralized vibrant metaverse. This multidisciplinary team
reflects a sandbox is diverse and global reach while fostering a community that values creativity,
innovation and inclusivity. The way seven all of them describe them and the AMA's was that they
help advise the the what Seb says he wants to be the cultural epicenter of the metaverse. So this
advisory board is to to assist the Dow and Seb and the special counsel in achieving that. So those
are the definitions for the website. And with that, let's jump into it. I went longer than I
thought. HODL Andy sorry about that. And always. So the discussion here the questions that we want
to go over and I will highlight them so that you can see as we go. First and foremost, so Andy,
let's go with you first man. What's your reaction all this good bad and ugly?
Overall good I think. Now is needed. There's a lot of positivity that come from it. The community
have been raising their concerns that their voice isn't being heard and this is a chance for them to
be heard. But obviously the big but there. This is something that is going to have a huge impact on
everything and rushing it shouldn't be done. Yeah, 100%. And a part of it needs to be rushed because
you can't sit and dwindle all day, you know, but like the fact that the announcement of the Dow
went live and like the council members had already been chosen that had already been made public.
They'd already said that they're joining the sandbox Dow and it feels like very much that
the first three SIPs were going ahead no matter what. And that's fair enough if the sandbox wanted
to do that, but I don't know why you'd make the SIP if you're going to do it anyway. If you want
to do it, you're still in charge of the company do it and then you're going to have to do it.
And then announce the Dow afterwards. Here's what we're starting with the Dow, the community can have
input afterwards. And they've made it seem like we have input now and really we don't. The first
three SIPs were going ahead no matter what. Until they resubmitted them, yeah. Well, yeah, like
again, there's another thing that is like a small issue, but again, it shows the rushing it and
they're not paying attention properly. The fact that land wasn't included in the first three SIPs
and then stakes and is not taken into account either. So the fact that they then extended
the first three SIPs, why didn't they extend the other two? Four and five. You know, I know
there weren't issues with them, but it seems silly for stuff to go ahead and be approved before the
Dow has even been approved to exist, even if it is going to go through no matter what. Gotcha.
What did you think about Cyril's explanation where they made mistakes, but they needed to
start somewhere and they acknowledge those mistakes? Sorry. That was the message.
I come from a background of electrical engineering and you have to make mistakes,
you know, to learn. But part of learning is making mistakes. And at the end of the day,
you have to try and mitigate as many mistakes as you can so that you don't have errors. But
at the end of the day, if you're testing something that's new, then you're going to come across
errors. As long as you learn from them and react quickly, then that's the way forward.
So I agree with the mentality, but I don't think they would have.
Go on, HODL. Sorry. Sorry. I was going to say, do you think they would have admitted
that it was a mistake if there hadn't been an outcry or if they would have just gone ahead?
They wouldn't know that there's a mistake if there wasn't an outcry.
Part of the community's responsibility is to offer constructive criticism. You know,
if we aren't happy with something, there's no point us throwing the teddy out of the cart.
We have to come forward and say we aren't happy with this because of this and we would like it to
happen this way instead. You know, you need to, if you're going to come to them with a problem,
you need to at least offer a solution you're viable to accept.
So I think like, if we didn't have the uproar or the issues about the DAO, then the sandbox
wouldn't know that the issues existed. Gotcha. So your overall reaction is it's good,
it was needed, but it was rushed. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. If they're announcing the DAO,
I think they should have at least given the community a little bit of time to absorb the
concept of the DAO before putting in those first three SIPs. Even if it's a week, you know,
just give them that little bit of time before they feel like stuff is open and they have to vote.
And they have to vote now and they got to submit the vote within two weeks. It feels
the pressure was applied and they didn't need to be. Fair. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate you
sharing that. All right, HODL, what's your reaction? And by the way, self-disclose,
you didn't really know. You haven't been following along much, right?
I've been trying to not form an opinion because I haven't read everything, which there's a lot,
obviously, and I haven't listened to everything. So, but initial reactions, I agree with a lot of
what Andy's saying. It's needed, but the way that it was rolled out was not great. I don't think
they necessarily were admitting a mistake. I think they were getting caught trying to sneak
something through a little bit, especially with the council members. Like, I'm not saying we have
to do everything the same way other DAOs have done things, but I think council members are usually
nominated, voted on, chosen by the community, not just appointed. And especially if we're going to
be paying them out of this fund, I think we should have some say. And the staked sand is an issue
still, I think, right? Because they've been pushing us to stake our sand. And now the fact
that we had it staked is preventing us, like most of my sand is staked. So I have some land voting
points, but not much in the sand department. Got you. Anyways. So you agree with Andy, overall
it's needed, but the way it was rolled out wasn't great. The board should be voted in and the stake
sand is still an issue. All right. My reaction is it began like in the same way Chris's did, Andy's
HODL yours as well. It came out of nowhere. And when I'm reading these things, it's approving,
it's wanting to approve a budget that it's already spending? So that did feel super rushed. And
super rushed. And Andy, I think even to this day, I still feel the same way you do about I would
have wished they had been socialized before May 28. And the sips were rolled out the same day,
just kind of like surprise vote now. And so there's this there's this learning curve that
we all have to make, especially for those of us who are just gamers and have no idea what a Dow is.
I think I've maybe watched like five or six YouTube videos right after May 28. Try and figure this out.
And, and then attending the mocha verse halls with G and his and the group that joins that
listening to what they already know about the Dow and their impression given they come from mocha
and they point out stuff. And so it was interesting to learn. I wanted to know what they knew.
And, and what I did figure out is all delving into the details was even though in the beginning,
sandbox did make some obvious mistakes, which Cyril and and Seb openly admit in the AMAs.
I don't recall if it was just the community outcry that prompted it.
HODL maybe it was a bit of both that they realized it. But Cyril mentioned many times that he was
sorry that the way it was rolled out, that they did make some mistakes, namely, they, they didn't
include land. And then also, they sometimes voted. And that's where I mentioned in the beginning,
I'm on on the forums that that the vote was already decided with what was it like, some many millions.
It was
Yeah, of course, they have the voting power to push through anything that they want.
1.1 million votes instantly on yes.
Instantly. And that was like, well, what what real voice do we really have? So that struck out,
stuck out to me big time. And but they ended up fixing that. When they resubmitted, they fixed it
and and sandbox declined to vote on the first three. So they just let the community vote. And
at the end of the day, so here in the latest slide, we have what the results were. But then
the slide after I have who who are the top voters. And as you'll notice in sips one, two and three,
sandbox is absent from that voting power. So they let the community vote by themselves.
Sips four and five, they did vote. So that was pretty much an automatic yes. Sandbox rolling in
with 27 million voting power. Not much any of us can do about that one, I don't think. So the
consider the carbon capture and the Red Cross done from the beginning as a yes. So that to me was
like, but serial, I'm in an AMA mentioned that it was it was a mistake in oversight. So they
may mention that it was it was a mistake in oversight on their part. Because I think crafter
correctly pointed out in one of the AMA is like, even though said mentioned he doesn't want and
the group doesn't want to use their voting power, they did in this case, and in zero said it was an
oversight. So I'll take them at their word because at this point, they are following through on the
actions that I see that they're they are proposing that they want to replace themselves eventually
with the the board members with the elected members. And and now their their initial strong
here's what it is is to set the doubt on a path of organization and health. And then, you know,
they get voted out of a job. And to them, that is the goal. So we'll see if that unfolds the way that
they described these AMA's. I am fascinated to see though that they did not vote sips one, two and
three. I think that's a step in the right direction toward letting the community decide which is what
said said he really wanted to do, let the community decide. And and then that will rebound on the
the game company. So that's my reaction. At the very beginning, I was skeptical,
skeptical in the beginning, because of all the factors that were at play with sandbox voting
instantly. And then the sips not, you know, that were predetermined at that point. And, and then
did not know the board. I knew a few of them, like I'm a while holder. So I knew when I saw Shannon's
name, I understood that one. And there were a couple others I noticed, but the vast majority of
the special counsel, or I'm sorry, the advisory board. I don't really know. I haven't really seen
them in the community much. So I was very skeptical about that, and how we were already voting for
their approval, like who in the community was voting for them that knew them. It wasn't obvious
to me that many people from the community was voting for them. So I was very skeptical about
all that. But then over time in the past three weeks, I'd say my skepticism about the community
skepticism has turned into healthy optimism. Do you think that's because they're getting paid to be
more attentive towards the community? Say that again? Do you think that's only because they're
being paid to be more attentive towards the community? Well, I still haven't seen anything
from the special board or the advisory board. Right. So these people down here, I haven't seen
any of them participate. Loretta Chen did. Loretta Chen did attend an AMA. But I don't,
Anthony Chow, Ina, Mojja, Matthew, Mia, Samuel, Zaf, I haven't seen them. Have you, Hoddle or Andy?
No. Okay. So that's-
To be honest, I don't know any. I know Hermit Crab Studios and I've had interactions with Loretta
previously. Okay. But I don't think any of that has been positive.
Well, I heard her speak about why she was involved and what she wanted to do. And to me,
cool. I mean, it's, I'm just gonna wait and see and then give my feedback as things go along.
I had no opinion one way or the other because I'm still too new to this. So I wanted to give her
the benefit of the doubt and the rest of the board, but I haven't heard from them except for Loretta.
And then on the special counsel, the only one I haven't heard from is Jean-Michel and Yatt.
Yatt, Sue. I'm so sorry if I'm mispronouncing your name. I'm very sorry.
Yatt, CEO of Anamoka. Anamoka is a huge investor in the sandbox. I've seen Yatt a few times and
Yatt is, he seems like he's busier than Seb somehow, but he still tries to make time for
people. So I've had good interactions with Yatt before.
That's awesome to hear. And I heard Shannon, she spoke a number of times on the AMAs.
Frédéric heard him as well and then Seb. So I think Shannon's made a positive effort to
interact with the community. Yeah, I tweeted back to her after I saw her,
listened to her AMA. I want to do a podcast with her because she talked about how she consulted
a lot of other DOWs to put research into being a good council member. And I really want to know
more about that. I want us to hear what she's learned to see how it can apply to us, how can it
benefit the community. But yes, I was very... Has anyone asked them how they were chosen,
how they were approached to be part of this council? Yes, I wrote it down. I think under
the tidbits. So Cyril on the 4 June AMA, he and Seb also explained that they selected the initial
council members and special advisors based on who they trusted to help guide them through the
initial stages of bringing the DOW to life. So they were handpicked.
So they wanted to give their friends some... Hey friends, here's some sand.
You could use the word friends. I would probably use the word network because I imagine some of
them are business partners. But I won't disagree with the way you characterize it. I don't know.
I don't know the relationships between them. I agree with the initial council.
The Seb, Yat and so on. I agree with that group of people. I think there should be a team that is
selected by the sandbox, which understand the sandbox values and direction for the future.
And I think they should have a say in it. A lot of those are big, large investors of the sandbox.
So I think it's only fair that a group of people, the board that kind of have a final say and dictate
the direction of the company. Yeah. I don't know much about Jean or Félic, Grail Capital or
Ariane. I don't know much about them. I didn't get time to do all my data mining that I wanted to
before this episode, but subsequent podcast will be me doing that. Ariane is a French company.
I think like a capital investment company again. So they're all basically investors, I feel very
much sure. That's probably true. Someone who has a stake in it going well. Yeah. So I agree with
those, but the ones underneath, I think we had the time. Why not vote? Why not? They're getting paid
a lot of money to do it. And we haven't heard. Go and have a look at the breakdown for the budget
for the initial government. Wasn't it like 40,000 USD? I remember looking that up. I forgot to put
it in my slide, but how much are they getting? Let's look at the initial Dow budget was 15.15
million. This is foundation. Now we want sandbox. The initial budget. It's three, right? Here's the
budget. Here's SIP 3. And the budget it was is for 15 million, if I recall.
There it is 15.5 million sand. So divided by two is how many US dollars. And then operations got
1.8 million. And that's the pay the special council members maintain the Dallas tech stack,
legal services, compliance, while banking services. So not just for special council members.
Does it say and in the AMA, I think it was George who wanted a little bit more fidelity on that,
on that how much was for people being paid specifically. Let's just say the worst case
scenario. One all 1.8 million sand was being given to the members. Worst case scenario.
Worst case scenario. Or maybe the best case scenario for them. So that was for was it for
the board or just the council? I think it's just special council members. So the board, I don't
think is getting paid. I think I have that in a note somewhere that they weren't taking.
I think Loretta mentioned that. That changed my perspective on things. I didn't know that.
But I don't quote me because I remember Loretta when she first came on. I'm like,
that was really, was really interesting to know compensation maybe.
Everybody's compensation. No, I'm someone please fact check. I believe Loretta mentioned in her AMA.
It was AMA for June. When she was talking. So 1.8 million, let's say just for the council members
of which there are five. So divided by five, 360,000 sand. So $180,000 USD. Okay. No,
I'm with you on that Andy. This covers it for to the end of next year. So it's 18 months into it
in total. Right, right. That was another thing that and through the AMA was brought up. Why were
their term links so long? Zero, I think gave a great explanation for that. And I'd have to read
it word for word to to make that to not misrepresent him. So it was 2025, right? That's when they
December 2025. Yeah, they believe six months isn't long enough to make an impact on the direction
of the dial. Right. And then they had to cross over to the the election cycle, which is I think
he said, Oh, I don't want to misrepresent him. He gave a month of when in the Constitution, it says
when the elections are going to have or when the term links will end. And so it just made sense
for him to push it out all the way to the end of the year. Mike, you know what? That's that sounds
reasonable. I'm not mad at that. I think it's reasonable. But at the end of the day, it's a
problem that could easily be avoided. There's a lot of information that the community don't have.
And they're trying to piece together what made them make the decision that they did. Yeah.
I think they did a good explanation. They did do the AMA. I think they gave some good explanations.
And I walked away from it thinking not not not as suspicious as when I first read all this.
Like if there is a problem with six months not being long enough,
why not? Why not wait till the end of the year? Why not run it for 12 months and have it end in
the middle of the year? You know, why not address the problem? Why not just say, oh, well,
we didn't think six months was enough, so we did 18. You know, why couldn't we do 12 months?
That's a big jump from six to 18. I'm trying to find where Cyril answered that question,
because someone asked him that exact thing and I had to write it down.
I wasn't able to fully comprehend it. I remember the AMA, but I felt very much
that they just gave us answers that we wanted to hear that were very corporate answers.
You didn't think that they were sincere? No, not really. Not from the past that I've had.
If they do it once, yeah, fair enough, you could say sincere. But if they do it twice or three times
or four times, it loses its sincerity. Oh, I see. Okay, you think there's something
else going on there? There's always more information, isn't there? So there's always
a bigger picture. Got it. All right, I found it. So it was the 12th June AMA. Crafter asked,
why was the 1.5 years implemented for the initial positions? Seems like a long time.
Cyril said, and I'm quoting almost, budget is reset every January, we get an annual
allowance from the DAO. It's frustrating for the council members to make any impact
in that timeframe. So we forward projected and land at the next January, which is 1.5 years.
And that's that. Yeah, it's just a very like, there was a problem. So that was our way of
overcoming it was extending it. What's the point of having the DAO if you want the community to
vote if when you have situations like this, you don't let the community vote? Fair.
You know, all that what they've really done is cement the next 18 months as their direction.
True. I mean, that was their stated goal. Yes, to set it on. Yeah, they've just pushed the
problem back again, though. Like, rather than addressing the problem, they they've gone,
well, we could extend the problem to six months, or we could extend it to 18 months. It's like,
yeah, let's deal with that later. Well, their state of view is they want 1.5
years to figure it out. So it's not a problem after that time. What's to figure out though?
I guess the whole point of DAO is autonomous. Probably, you know, taking in community reaction,
trying to figure out what the SIPs are going to look like, and then incorporating whatever
rules they feel they need to protect the DAO, and then let the community take it over after that.
And, you know, amend the Constitution. Cyril said many times that after we do this,
and we set you all on the path, the Constitution is amendable. You can you can change it after.
So, but escape room, I think right on chat, you preferred that we had figured this out before the
vote. Right now, it has it has the community's attention. And it may be not the best attention.
And in six months, it might still have the community's attention. But in 18 months, I feel like
it will have lost a lot of its luster, a lot of its interest. So by then, they'll be able to do
whatever they want, because people have stopped fighting. That's my opinion on that. Where do we
see this going? So I think I just heard your take on it. You think you're gonna we're gonna eventually
lose our attention on it. And then that'll give them the opportunity to do whatever they want.
Yeah, I mean, they already have the opportunity to do whatever they want. So the opportunity,
yes, they're just giving us the illusion of power. Well, I mean, when you when you look at the actual
power of votes going on here, whoever crypto polytons is, and then those other wallets like there,
but I don't see a sandbox on that. So there was a chance for that to say no.
I don't know who crypto polytons is, I guess. But it's probably just somebody that's close with
somebody that's close with Seb or Yad or you know what I mean? You take the more cynical approach.
Yeah, I'm a cynic. Okay. The other thing is, if you have the voting power of 4 million,
are you gonna vote for this not to go ahead because you have such a large vote?
Yeah, I very nearly voted no. I did vote on one of them. If that person has 4 million votes and
the quorum is 30 million, they have over 10% of the power needed to make this go ahead. So
they're not gonna vote no, because they want to be able to have such that large voting power.
So of course, the big heavy heavy hitters are gonna vote for being able to have more of an
impact. And I don't disagree with that. If you've invested loads of money in the sandbox, then
I think you should have more more say, you know?
Yeah. Well, I'm I'm interested in helping to bring order. I want I want there to be
a healthy approach to this that incorporates fairly big and small. And I've been thinking a
lot about what sip I want to I have about seven sips I've scripted out. One of them is a sip for
introducing kind of like a, either like a parliamentary or Congress approach, which has
based on on numbers and then based on just positions. And that kind of balances out.
We think we does. But I don't know, I've been racking my brain as to what I want to propose
to try and to counter some of the stuff that I'm hearing from other DALs, which I barely know
anything about, by the way. I need to get the mocha team in here and other people to
to talk about what their experiences with the eight point balance going on with their delegates.
And apparently something's blowing up over there. I don't know.
So HODL, you think it's gonna it's gonna die down? Yeah.
I think interest in anything wanes over time. Or like ebbs and flows, like even the sandbox in
general. It has been, you know, the biggest metaverse, the most exciting thing. And then
it sort of died off a bit and other things took its place or just in general, the metaverse
interest is down currently. So it's impossible to see the future six months, 18 months, it doesn't
matter. But I think that this will just become another part of the sandbox that people will
either be interested in or they won't. And that's fair. Like, there's so many different facets to
the sandbox that you can be involved in. You can be here just to make art, make games, make friends,
play games, you know, like, you don't have to be involved in the DAO at all. So
that's true. We don't. Yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be tough to pull interest in this, I think.
Andy, what do you think? Where's this going?
And one of one of two ways that the DAO is a lot of the SIPs for the DAO are going to be asking for
funds. And the DAO at the end of the day is a drain on the sandbox funds. Now, the whole purpose
is that the SIPs that are submitted bring more value to the sandbox than they consume through
the initial funding. And if it's not successful in that way, then the DAO is just going to drain
the sand and all of the sand that goes into the DAO is going to be sold. You know,
they're going to sell it. That's the whole purpose of asking for the revenue is to sell it.
And asking for the funds, sorry. So it is either going to go away, go one way of the DAO just sucking
sand from the sandbox without bringing that value or two, it's going to be successful in the
community, interact and share the same opinions with the large holders of the sandbox and we can
actually have our say. But it requires things like this being done, you know, making sure that
everyone's opinions are heard and everyone's perspectives are understood so that people
can make a decision that they think is suitable. Because at the end of the day, you're voting for
you, you know, whoever holds the sand, the land, they're voting for what situation they're in
and their circumstances. And that might not be the same as someone else's. So if we can understand
where people are coming from, we can hopefully make a vote that suits the community. Well said.
Well, for the record, I scripted out seven SIPs that I haven't yet fully
created a template for. Only one of them is asking for money. The other six are just things I'm like,
guys, can we please implement this?
And I hope a lot more of the SIPs are about that, you know, frustrations from the community and easy
fixes are just a slight change of direction in the sandbox approach. The Builders Challenge too,
was a great feedback for me because I, Floor Droppers, we put in some deals with nonprofits,
fresh, fresh gamers who have never played sandbox. And I just kept track of all the things you're
like, hey, why does it do this? Why don't we have that? And just things that seem obvious to them
that we're missing. And so that's where a lot of my SIP ideas are coming from is that and just other
things I've seen over the years. Simple, simple stuff that I wish they would please just do.
Absolutely need those new people.
Right.
Well, that's it. If the, if the, if the count, not the council, if the, the group of people that are
on the DAW keep forgetting the advisory board or whatever. If they don't understand these
frustrations and for them, everything's working fine and their company is ticking over, this is
great, that they're not going to understand the difficulties of the tools or like I say,
the frustrations that the developers have and that make it a lot easier for the community or
them to interact with their community.
That's why I was so, so interested in and happy to see the Magic Palette, Andy, when you did the,
that with Pepe. That was so cool to see because that to me, even it is asking for money. So,
you know, that's our first test case for what do we want this to be?
But it was cool to see that him addressing that problem.
I like the, the one from Sandrush because it does bring value to the community. It's not like
they're not funding a private project. They're funding something that they're hopefully planning
to like, not open source, but allow the community to use for free. And I think creating a baseline
of better experiences within the sandbox is only going to mean higher retention for players that
are in here and new users coming in. Yeah. So you, so you see it going one of two ways.
It's going to go really well. It's going to go really bad.
Yeah. But like Hoddle said, the community are just going to brush it off because like
catalysts and other thing after six months, everyone kind of just gave up on them and
no one really knows what's going on with it. I haven't given up. I'm going to do a podcast
episode on it. I think the dow is going to allow us to, I think the dow is going to allow us to
I've got the numbers to back it up too. Yeah. Raise those issues again.
But like it just killed my ability as a studio to continue making money.
You just, we want to do the marketplace for a group where we have offer tokens to
holders of our NFC collection and they have the ability to spend it on a marketplace where they
can claim assets to help improve their experience or, you know, whatever. And little things like
that are really important. And just the sandbox saying, Hey, you can submit a request for them
freeware isn't a sustainable channel. Yeah. There the starter pack.
I think Hoddle shares the same frustrations in that too.
So now how do we want the dow to help the sandbox? How do let's start with you, the cynic.
That's funny because I feel like that's not my,
how people perceive me as a cynic, but I am. Yeah. I don't, I don't think they do either.
I definitely didn't. The truth comes out. Right? Yeah. Speaking, I just, there's so many people
involved in the sandbox that I care so much about and I want to take care of everybody.
And it's really hard when I see them getting steamrolled and not being able to do what they
want to do and should be able to do within the sandbox. Anyway, so it was a question. Sorry.
Where, where do you see the dow helping the sandbox game?
I think if some of the community members can get
SIPs going like you with a focus on improving the experience for builders and players,
then I think it'll be great. I'm big on the experience for the players. That's what I'm
passionate about. I want there to be a few possibilities possible. Because without the
players, there's no point. Right. Right. My heart though, now that I've learned how to build and I've
worked with, you know, Meta Theory Studio and DreamJunk, I get it. I'm sympathetic to their
plight right now. So I mean, there's an opportunity. That's okay. There's an opportunity
to improve the sandbox game, which is what it's supposed to be. But I don't think that the
council, whatever they are advisors, I don't think that's their focus. I think their focus is
making money. And you know, the two can sort of could sort of go hand in hand. Okay.
I've heard I've heard Loretta not Loretta, excuse me. I've heard Shannon speak and I,
and I looked her up on YouTube and saw some of the other places she's attended.
She is big into advocacy. Very big into advocacy. She she stated her goal many times
on many different venues that her goal is to diversify the perspective of the of the
I'm gonna get that part wrong, the NFT market and the gamer in the metaverse.
So that's where she came up with World of Women. And so she's interested in the metaverse.
And so she's interested in ensuring that other perspectives, you know, from whether they be
minority groups or whatever, they may be underrepresented communities are have a bigger
voice. That's her stated goal. And that's why she said she's mostly I think that's a great goal.
When I had my podcast before it was focusing on women in web three and the NFT space.
And there's absolutely a need for more of that. But that doesn't need to be the focus, especially
right off the bat, like build a good platform and then bring everybody in. Okay.
So do you see the Dow as a way to help the player in the builder? Is that is that what I'm hearing?
Is that is that what I'm hearing? I would hope so. That's my dream for the Dow, but
it's going to take some work to get there. Because obviously, these first few sips
are not really focused on that. I mean, there's some vague
things in the budget about going towards right builders challenges and live ops and all sorts
of streamers. I'm like, Hi, I'm a streamer. Do I get a piece of this pie? Or
who are we talking about here? So I'd like to see a lot more clarity about the budget.
And yeah, more sips from the community for sure.
Oh, man, I'm so looking forward to building these these steps out. Although the templates
a little long, so I have to come prepared with like, data and it might take me a little bit
to get some of these out. Because I need to demonstrate to the community what it is,
this little tiny thing will do. I mean, I anticipated costing it will cause $0 from
the sandbox fund, at least I'm not gonna request any, unless I thought all the time and effort I
put in, and sometimes I have to buy graphics like, would any be buddy be mad if I asked for like 100
sand or something? Would that be a turn off?
It's like one little scoop of sand on the beach, right? I don't think anybody would notice.
Okay, I just don't want to turn anybody off. But I'm, I am investing time and money into this
to make it be as quality as possible. And I don't feel strongly either way. But I'd like to,
if it doesn't turn anyone off, then maybe 100 sand, you know, something like that.
But the going my going line is that it's probably zero. Definitely not gonna ask anything for like
long term or milestones or whatever. Andy, what do you think about the DAO? How do you want the
data to help the game?
Talking about diversification within the space, I think the space has to exist before it's
not diverse enough. Which means that you have to invest the time into developing a place for the
developers and the builders to develop and create those environments. And then if those environments
aren't diverse enough, you can step in and focus on diversifying them. But at the moment,
they're not diverse enough. So I think that's a good thing.
There's too many frustrations for either a player or a developer within the sandbox. And those
frustrations should be addressed first. You know, I had a simple issue that I've been having for
like a week now and such wood, I think it's fixed. But the issue was if I opened up, I tried to
launch a game in the sandbox, it crashed the launcher instantly. Yeah, I'd have to do it 20
30. I'd be sat there for 40 minutes. And then I'd be like, I'm gonna do it. And then I'd be like,
I'd have to do it 20 30. I'd be sat there for 45 minutes on stream, trying to load into my own
social hub, just so I could play hide and seek with the community or something. And it took like,
two weeks for the sandbox to fix the issue. And yeah, they did it quite quickly. But at the end
of the day, I'm live streaming every day for two weeks. And these issues are getting aired, the issues are
being shown. And I think I'm not saying that they should fix it instantly. But I think that situation
highlights the issues that we have in the sandbox. It's difficult for us as developers are builders
within the space to be able to use the tools without having some simple frustrations. And those
frustrations turn into us not wanting to do what we want to do. Disliking the passion or so on.
So I'd like to see the DAO used to either, like you say, submit small issues or changes in the
direction of the development for the future of the sandbox. Or I'd like to see things like
Sandrush where if funds are being asked for or requested, they bring more value to the community.
Sure. I agree with both of you. I think I mostly closely reflect the huddle. I want the DAO to
benefit the player and the builder. The builder, let's say the developer. So that's the game maker
and the Vox editor. I want them, I want these SIPs to prioritize our frustrations so that they are
addressed first versus I'm not going to, I'll just say versus the interests and designs of those
who maybe don't open the sandbox every day and don't play the games as often as the players do.
The these players, they come and it takes them
a while to get into the game. And I'm not talking about the download speed.
That's give you whatever. But the process that you go from landing on the page to entering into the
one, the zero zero hub, too many clicks too long. If you compare that to other competitors, they are
doing it way faster. And we have a player retention policy policy problem. When people come, there's
not enough replayability to keep them here to organize their player events around. I used to
organize a lot of player events like 400 players every week would play a game. In the game I used
to stream for and podcast for. And the organization it took to make that happen was, was
it was because the game made it relatively easy for us to build around them so that we can build
like almost like an American NFL or a FIFA around the sport. That was kind of what we were. We
broadcasted events and we we refereed them and we held tournaments so that different servers could
play each other. The organization that went into that, the people who were on it, like myself and
others, we were passionate about it. And we were able to organize events around it. Right now that's
super hard to do. Plus the player count and also the barrier to entry to even get into the game.
So I'm interested in bringing that down via SIPs. Finding ways that make sense to prioritize the
game developers time so they can remove that barrier to entry so that people will show up faster
and stay longer. I can't do much about people, you know, going to building more mini games or more
replayability stuff. That's on every developer for themselves. But I'm interested in bringing that
down. That's how I see Sandbox DAO helping the game is prioritizing developer time toward our
frustrations that will lower the barrier for new players and keep players coming back.
And then eventually we get to some of the stuff that Seb said, which is pretty exciting.
Working the DAO to where it is self-sufficient and it's not just a drain on the resources. It also
accrues revenue. And that's one of the things he mentioned for that carbon neutral pairing trade
they're going to buy that passed. He said a long-term benefit for that could be a revenue making
contributor. I don't understand it all that much yet until I've delved into it more deeply, but
that's where I'd like it to go. All right, what does it mean for the DAO to be run by SandFam?
What do you think Andy? I don't know if that's a good idea. I don't think the DAO should be run by
SandFam. Tell me more. Sandbox is a billion dollar company. You don't just pick random people and
put them in charge of it because they're part of the community. I think it's more important about
making sure that their opinion, their frustration, their perspective is understood and valued and
whatever decision the Sandbox DAO makes should have that in mind. That's all be considerate.
I don't think the DAO should be run by the community. I think the community should have
their vote and say, but don't allow the community to run the Sandbox. It's a bad decision.
Okay. How do you see it going wrong? A company has to take risks and not everyone
likes those risks or can understand that. I always talk about Elon Musk and his flamethrower.
Every person, when he was building that flamethrower, every person would have said,
no, no, no, that is a bad idea. That is a stupid idea. What are you doing? Then when it launches
and it's very successful, everyone's like, wow, genius, great idea. The community isn't going to
think like that as a whole. They're going to think safer more than riskier. I don't think it's-
Risk averse.
Yes. Seb's got the company to where it is today without us having any input in the direction
and the future of the Sandbox. He knows how to run a company at the end of the day. It's not
the first time he's done it. I think this company is a bit different because it is very much involved
in the community. The community have invested almost in it. That's the way that blockchain and
NFT games work. I think with that comes a lot more frustrations, but definitely the community's
input and value should be heard. I hope that's how we utilize the doubt, but I don't think they
should be in charge at the end of the day. Okay. Harald, what do you think?
I think no one entity or group should be in charge of it.
So right now I feel like the Sand Fam, which is just a made up thing that we've all- a name
we've given ourselves, a label. I'd like to see some representation on the council committee,
whatever they're called.
What kind?
Either from Bill or player perspective or bit about so like I know Chris Day, but I think she's a
representative for both sides. And I'd like to see somebody like that involved.
Did you say Tushay?
At least one person.
Okay.
Oh, I said Kristen.
Kristen. Sorry. But Tushay is an example. Sorry if I keep cutting out.
Yeah, it's all good. Kristen. Oh, candidly Kristen. Okay. You haven't heard from her
since she said she'd be open to it. I hope she's okay.
She's busy, mama. I know the feeling.
Yeah. Okay. So you'd like more representation, but you don't feel that any one group
or person should be in charge of the doubt.
You cut out there. Did you say yes? Did I have that right?
Yeah, sorry. I don't know why internet's struggling right now.
All good.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Yes, yes, yes. Okay. For me, I'd say what it means is that, Andy, your points will take him, man.
Seb has gotten, Seb and his team have gotten to where they are without our direct input.
But I think what that means for us is that we have a vote in the direction of, so they build the house
for us to live in, and then we vote on where we want the furniture, where we, you know, what color
we want the walls to be painted. We don't vote on whether or not we should knock the house down.
So that's where I see us being. Okay. And I have a real life thing that I need to do.
I have a real life thing that I need to go see for a few minutes, but let's start off with the next
question. Andy and Hoddle, what do we know the advisory board and special counsel and maybe
just talk through who you know and what you've seen of them. And I'll be right back.
Andy, go ahead.
You better go, Andy, because I have it.
Okay. I keep getting confused with which one's which. Let's start with the team at the top.
I think it's the advisory board.
I'll pull them up.
I agree with the advisory board.
It's a lot of CEOs on the advisory board.
Oh, the special counsel. Sorry, it's what I was going to do first.
I agree with all of them. Like,
you can't not put seven, you can't not put yet on there. And then if the other three are heavy
invested, right, you can't not put them on it. I agree with them.
And to be honest, I haven't heard of a board.
You haven't heard of who?
The people, any of the people on the advisory board.
I only have heard of Loretta and Matthews.
Hermit crab studio built some stuff very early on.
I've heard of the studio, heard of the studios, but not the people.
Okay. Well, yeah, when Hermit crab studios did something a long time ago,
but I haven't heard from them in like, a year.
At least of anything that I've done. I don't think the advisory board should be as it is.
I don't think any of those people have enough knowledge about the sandbox to be able to make
the decisions or advise on it. But at the end of the day, they're only advising.
They're only going, yeah, we think so or no, we don't.
At the end of the day, they're only going, yeah, we think so or no, we don't.
At the end of the day, the community can have their vote and do whatever they want with it.
The advisory board aren't going to be able to reject an SIP.
They're just going to say that they vote negative against it.
Yeah. Well, the way Cyril explained the advisory board is they have no say over the proposals,
only the council does. And the council only get to say whether or not it's legal,
moral, ethical, and should go to a vote.
But the advisory board, they said, is just advisors from different sectors of where Seb
and the special council and the constitution believes the Dao should be oriented towards,
which Seb said many times is centered around he wants to be the cultural epicenter of the
metaverse, cultural capital, I think it was exact words. So he believes these people could
help aid them in going that direction.
That was the way I understood it. I'm pretty sure I got pretty close to what they're saying exactly.
Because these are just the smiley face really, aren't they? At the end of the day.
And all that's bad for like when you go and look at the proposals, there's a smiley face at the
top, whether they agree, whether it's positive or negative.
And that's it at the end of the day. That's the advisory council?
That's the group that are on your screen right now.
Oh, yeah, I'm behind it. Yeah. No, not Seb and Yatt, not that team, the other team, the advisory.
Board, board, dang it. You're right. Advisory board.
There's two of them.
The advisory board, board, dang it. You're right. Advisory board. It's so confusing.
Oh, the council, that special council recommendation, not the advisory board.
Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah.
I think I'm just going off the word, Andy. I don't know for sure. But
that falls in line with what Seb and Cyril said is they have no input into the SITs.
Yeah, that's what into the direction of things like,
I actually don't know. I need to go read what they said. They have advice. That's all I know.
Oh, the council, they're the ones who say, yep, this is fits what we're after. And we put it to a vote.
I agree that like the team of Seb and Yatt should be able to say, hey, that doesn't align with the
direction that we want to take in the future, or that'll clash with the direction that we are taking.
And that's why that can't go ahead. Because at the end of the day, it's his company. He should have
the vote of where it goes. Yeah. Well, according to him, though, he wants to eventually off ramp
himself from that place. He wants to give it to where he mentioned this word timeless multiple
times. He wants to create a timeless Dow that leads the direction of the development for the game.
I'm pretty sure I got that one right. Yeah, Seb's always for you, GC. Like,
yeah, always. And he said that eventually, like the sandbox will just become its like,
its own little ecosystem that just ticks over. But as you were saying before about the house
metaphor, we got to finish building the house first. And like, this is like,
selecting our family almost is the special council and the advisory board. We lost him.
I maybe didn't agree with that one. He's just got up and left.
I think he's got to be good at the end of the day. Totally. We got to build.
Yeah. But it's going to be a while before we get there.
These things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the sandbox.
Was that his dog going nuts before? Maybe. Hope everything's OK.
I think at the moment, though, there's nothing that has had a negative impact on
us as a community. The Dow going that all of the SIPs that have been approved, I don't think any
of them really have a negative impact on us. And I think if it gets to a point where there is a
decision that say the community don't agree with, but the sandbox wants to do, I think then is when
how they deal with it will determine how the Dow is perceived for the future.
Yeah, well said. That kind of goes with the HODL saying earlier where she when you mentioned
the interest may wane, which gives people free license to do whatever and
and that that negative reaction will just compound on itself.
OK, so we know I think the basic thing here is that we know some of the
special counsel and we don't really know the advisory board at all. Yes.
Yes. Thanks. Thanks, HODL. Did you either of you say that you knew anyone from the advisory
council or assuming the advisory board? We know the two on the top, right? I do anyway.
Matthew. Yep. OK, I know the studio names, but I don't know the people. OK. Yeah, Matthew is
the leader of Hermit crab, hermit crab of creative experiences and we're quite active in the sandbox.
OK, cool. But I haven't really heard much from them in the last year. I was saying before.
Gotcha. And you know, Loretta from where? I've had interactions with them before. Got it.
Oh, she was. Consultant to the Kingdom of Japan. OK.
And you said, HODL, that you recognize the studios, but not the people.
Yeah, exactly. Gotcha. I've heard of Smobler, I've heard of Hermit crab,
but the people behind are not names that I recognize. Gotcha. All right, let's look at
the council one more time. So Frederick, what do we know about him?
He owns that company that is an investment company in France, I think. I'm not sure, though.
So have we seen him involved in the community or done anything?
No, you wouldn't. I don't think you've heard from many of these people, probably apart from Seb
or you'll hear from, yeah, because of the involvement with sandbox.
I have heard him. He has shown up at the AMAs. So that was interesting. And then I have a number of
things that he's described. What about Jean-Michel? Sorry if I pronounced that.
Jean-Michael. What do we know about him? Has he been involved in the community?
I couldn't tell you if I've ever spoken to him.
Otto? Oh, wait a minute. Senior executive at Ledger.
Ah, there we go. That was his past job, wasn't it? Yeah, as of last year. Yeah. Yeah.
But I mean, you've all played the Ledger experiences, right?
Yep. Yeah. I'm going to save you the trouble of asking me. I don't know who any of them are,
except for seven. Yeah. Fair, Hoddle. That's fair. That's fine. That's totally fine.
That's fair. I miss that. That he was at Grail Capital is he was senior executive at Ledger.
That makes more sense now. OK. And then Shannon. World of Women. I mean,
I think that one does speak for itself.
She's been involved in the sandbox for a while. World of Women was in the first season, I think.
Yeah. Yeah. They've stuck around since she's become a lot more active. Yeah. No, you're right.
It's been she's been in it for a while. I was in season one. They've been featured in the
we had an area in the social hub. Gotcha. OK. They might not have had their own experience,
but they were like had a little like feature area. Yeah. Well, Shannon, if you're watching,
I am a while holder. So thumbs up. Been a big fan for a while. OK. Yet. Animoca Brands. I read
somewhere. I think it was Google that Animoca owns the sandbox. Yeah. How does that work?
You know, Andy? Animoca funds loads of companies. There's quite a lot of Web3 games that
they've funded and they they like I don't know if I don't want to use any words that aren't correct.
Yeah. They have a lot of like child companies. Some pretty Aries. Yeah. And the sandbox,
I believe, is one of those. But the sandbox was bought out by Animoca because it was I think the
the original company was PIXAL or PIXAL. And that's that's what the sandbox was created
under the original 2D sandbox. And I think it's Animoca that bought them. I don't know exactly.
You'd have to read about it. Interesting. Yeah. I'm willing to delve into that.
Interesting. OK. That's probably got a connection in the Mochaverse somehow.
Yeah, they launched Mochaverse. Yeah. Got it. And then Seb. We know Seb. Cool.
So there's that then. So me personally, I don't throw spears at any of them.
I don't know. I didn't listen to the boardroom meeting where they were selected,
what their pitch was, and how exactly each of them fits. I know loosely from what Seb and Serial
described that each one meets a different need of the vision for advising on how
the DAO is going to be the the culture capital of the metaverse. I'm not privy to the details there.
So until I hear a little bit different than my position is, I don't know them much either. And
I haven't seen, except I haven't heard any of them except for Loretta, who appeared in one of the AMAs.
So and thank you, Loretta, if you're watching this for doing that. So I'm just going to watch
and learn and then keep exploring this for the community. But they have made it very clear that
all of them intend to be replaced by the community. And it sounds like that's going to be December 31,
2025, or January 1 when the budget rolls over. Okay, so there's that.
And then special question that I have that popped up during my investigation earlier today,
I noticed that Sandbox, the first three SIPs did not vote. I think they may have voted before,
but I think they nullified their vote like they changed their 10 to a 11. So 50% each way.
I think that's what happened. But but in four and five, they left their vote on Yes. So that's 27
million voting power toward Yes. And I want to know what y'all thought about that.
I do remember Cyril mentioning I think it was in the which one was it?
The four June for June AMA that was a mistake. So because these closed after the fact, they
couldn't have been referring to that. Because otherwise they would have just changed their vote.
But we don't know five of them.
Yeah, I do know they did. But I don't know if they voted on the resubmittals.
They didn't vote on the resubmittals. They said that they weren't going to vote on the on the
resubmitted ones. Okay. Because of the feedback from the community, but they've already voted on
the previous one. So they just left it in place. Yeah. Okay, here was it was the 12 June. He said
that it was an honest mistake that they voted on on four and five and that they weren't able to
resubmit it because snapshot.org only allows you to have three proposals active at the same time.
And they didn't have like the verified account yet. So they couldn't resubmit four and five
four and five and then remove their vote or not vote in the resubmittals. He said it was an
honest, modest mistake, please forgive them. And so now that I reread that maybe we don't have
another question about that anymore. How do you forgive them?
How do you make a mistake like that? How do you accidentally vote?
I don't know when I voted I had to you know, sign it and all that. I'm not sure.
I will refrain from commenting on that.
You're skeptical. You're skeptical. Okay. Got it. Andy?
Um, yeah, I'm a bit the same. I don't know. All right. I just we fixed the issue,
but we didn't fix the issue here. Because we couldn't fix the issue there. But we fixed it
over there. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I get it. Okay. Yeah. And I'm I give them
the benefit of the doubt. At this point, I see their actions starting to align with their words,
you know what they they did not vote for the three. And they rewicked it to where land is there. And
they allowed the first batch of community sips. Um, all right, we keep going. And then I'll just
keep watching and commenting. Okay. And were there any questions that y'all wanted to ask? Andy?
Not really. Not really. So I just I think we just have to stick together a little bit and
I say have these discussions, make sure we're aware of everyone's perspectives and then vote
however you see accorded. Yeah. But I think make it easier for the community to submit SIPs,
offer more support and make the process as easy as possible. And hopefully we'll have a lot of
positive stuff from the community. Yeah, same. No questions. Just like a suggestion. If you
have a proposal, make sure you get it out to the people in the community. Um, and I can definitely
be a point person on that. If you, if you put something out there, I will try and refrain from
swaying people's votes, but I would like people to be able to vote on them and be aware of them.
And if there's anyone in the community who wanted to ask a question,
now's the time. We're getting close to wrapping up.
The best question for you really is what's your thoughts on this? As in like,
if you could recap what your perspective is, because you've done a lot more diving into it
over the last 48 hours and I'm curious to see, has digging into the information changed your
perspective at all and what have you uncovered over the last 48 hours? Because you could imagine
that there's someone here that hasn't dug in and put the effort into uncover and deep dive into it.
So what could you tell them that you learned from it to save them going through that process? Maybe?
Yeah, I began as Hoddle did and Kenley Christen, very critical, very suspicious. It, it's no wrong
to me as the three weeks unfolded and as I wrote down things like this timeline and the interesting
facts, I got more, more of my concerns were, were satisfied. And at the very least, I see Serial,
Serial and Seb's words aligning with their actions after the first week,
after they started changing and reversing things. So I'm, I'm optimistic right now.
I'm optimistic that what they say they want to do, they are doing. And I'm optimistic that we have a
chance to at the ground floor, even if we don't have control over the sips right now, and won't
for some time as a council, I think there's still even room for improvement there.
Everything that Seb and Serial and Shannon and Fred,
Loretta, all of them talked about was giving us a way to take over, to, to contribute as a community,
to draw up our lines of how we wanted to do this in a healthy and responsible way.
And I'm sitting here thinking, I've seen nothing from any of them that would say that they're not
ready for this to happen now, except that the circumstances aren't ready to happen.
That's the, you know, fixing all the bugs and getting us on a pattern, like a set pattern of
how we can, how we can run this now. But what that means to us and me right now is, I'm thinking
that we could even throw in a sip that would, that would do a special early election for a plus one
or plus two on the board, or the council. And I think that's the only way that we can do that.
And I think that's the only way that we can do that. Maybe they would find, they would decide
that it's not quite ready. Maybe. But everything I've heard of Seb and Serial and the way they
describe the way they want this unfold, I think they'd be open to listening. So I'd say I had
seven sips. I probably now have eight. And you can already guess what the eighth one's gonna be.
Is open up a special early election for a plus one or plus two of the board or a plus one on the
board and a plus one of the council. And then we start opening up that aperture. So they're,
they're not unwilling in my perspective from what I've uncovered so far delving into this,
they're not unwilling to change. They're not unwilling to consider things they didn't think
of before they think they said they've been lurking on it for the past three months.
Pretty diligently to get to May 28. They seem to be very open to listening to change and the community.
But they want the community to be in a place where it can responsibly contribute Andy. And that goes
to what you were saying how you don't think it's a good idea to hand the community the keys to the
Dow with with the billion dollar company at stake. And what I see from seven to eight,
seven zero is that they are trying to set the community up to be able to responsibly take it
over in a phased approach. That's what I'm seeing happen. Well, they're not as I'm sold.
Go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no, I was I was finished. I was just rehashing because
that that excites me, man. This this is like the perfect intersection between gaming,
business, proper governance, transparency, like this is what I was looking into what I want,
what I wanted out of a metaverse to put all of my resources and time and effort into.
So this is quickly becoming my new passion because of the opportunity that that I have
to contribute. And all the stuff I've been doing on volunteer basis up until this point,
all the volunteering as like a nonprofit organizer of gaming tournaments and non
volunteer podcaster for eSports and for for games. And then all my own business,
like my own novel publishing and music publishing company. And then that's what I added,
you know, meta worlds to that as a game publisher. So I've been a game publisher before way back when
when I was younger. Think of like a website that allowed you to do play Tetris with a thousand
people instead of one or two or pack me with a thousand people. That was my original idea.
And it didn't work out in the end. I was young and inexperienced back then. And now I'm
the benefit of hindsight. So I feel like this has prepared me for this opportunity
to where I can I can be a responsible member and look at it from the communities and as a
community member like, hey, Andy and I'll have a point about the way it was rolled out.
You know, now what can I do on the business end, like proposing a SIP to realize
a responsible approach or a different approach? And that's where I landed on it right now.
I'm excited, man. That's why I have all this set up the way I do and pushing for it on my end.
I intend to contribute. SIPs, nominations, myself, all of it.
I think the community should have saying what goes on with the doubt. But I like trying to
explain a little bit more about what I was saying before about them just not having control over it.
There needs to be something that keeps them in line. Otherwise, the community just
will do stupid things. You know, there's something that happened in the UK along
not long ago, really, but I think it's something that's going to be a big issue.
There's something that happened in the UK along not long ago, really, but
like where they open the name for that the public can name something new.
The public named a boat and they named it Boating at Boat Face. And everyone voted for it.
And like that's a concern about giving the community the keys is that if they do stupid
things, then they'll go ahead. So we need to make sure that there's someone to keep them in line a
little bit. And that's what I mean by not handing the keys over completely. There needs to be that
slow transition period over 10, 20 years where doubt becomes its own thing and it evolves into
something that's sustainable. We got to learn our own power and we got to learn how to use it
responsive. Otherwise, we're like, we're a kid, you've just been given the keys of the kingdom too.
And we could we could wreck it before we even realize what we've done.
And this beautiful thing that's been built
comes and we have nothing to blame but ourselves. Yeah, I agree with that.
So you're saying I should cancel my SIP for Sandy McSandface as mascot?
No, because I vote for it. I think we'd all vote for it. Yeah, and that's the problem.
Well, yeah, except to rename himself to Seb Sandy McSand Seb.
Yeah. Well, if you're listening, advisory board and special counsel, none of this was
meant to disparage you at all. I didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean any nothing I said was an
insult or an insult. It is what it is in terms of we do and do not know some members better than we
don't know others. We have seen people being involved before. And for others, we we off the
top our heads and the island I can't recall or or yeah, I can't recall what participation you've had
yet. So I'm looking forward to seeing what is it you all advise on and how the council governs.
And I am I am hopeful and optimistic. And I like what I what I saw in terms of what's changed.
I'd like the improvements made since you announced May 28. So I'm I'm going to involve myself,
I'm going to put in some sips. And I'm going to likely seek a nomination to anything that I can
do to help. But if the project management team that Cyril mentioned is behind the the legality
stuff of the steps or the special counsel or the advisory board or what have you, I'm going to
I intend to be here. Those are my closing thoughts. Andy, what are yours?
All right, just thank you. Yeah, we covered a lot about the doubt. It's been nice to chat about it.
Yeah, I love this man. It's great. We need to keep having more things like this just to air out
issues as long as we're making progress and not just having a rant on the internet, you know,
I think we're all for the doubt. It just we just need to make sure that what the sandbox are telling
us the words and the actions are aligning, like you said, and they continue to happen going forward
and the community can have that value. Right. It's been good. I appreciate it. And I appreciate
everything that you do. And you put a lot of effort into getting all the information there
for the community to be able to go through it. And it's been good to have a chat. Yeah,
I love it, man. I love this. This is my this is my passion is doing stuff like this is organizing
and making it making it effective, efficient for us to make good decisions on. I don't even
the community can choose. I just just I hate the fact when people walk in and and we haven't gone
to them to show them this is what it means to you. And then here's all of our sources that you can
check. And because then people know they heard something somewhere and suddenly that's that's
their perspective. And it's just I don't know, I, I regret it makes me sad every time I see that. So
that's my huddle. What are yours? Your closing remarks?
I'm just glad we have passionate people like you in the space who want to put this work in and
and you get the word out there because that's not no that's not my forte.
I have opinions, but you know, that's my own my own opinion. Yeah. Yeah, and I'll do my best to
keep getting the word out about things. Obviously, I haven't been streaming a lot of the sandbox
lately. But like I said, interest ebbs and flows. So maybe that interest will come back someday.
Yeah. And thank you so much in the chat escape room, Yuma. I'm so glad you're here.
I saw Ian, that faces I've seen definitely before and then all the lurkers. Thank you so much for
showing up and listening and participating. I'd love to host so many of you on the podcast.
There's just there's so many different things I want to hit as a result of this to make it real
to make it to make it transparent to make it run well and healthy, so that we're ready to take that
that assume that mantle when when seven the council, just like they said they want to do for us.
So these future episodes I worked on a little bit before I started the stream. You know, I want to
do another part two community reactions. I want to talk about what lessons have we learned from the
Dow I heard crafter and Shannon mentioned that they talked to other dowels to learn. So I want to
hear them and others who have done participate in other dowels. I want to do the best I can.
I want to do the business and the publishing experience and making assets. I have like an
accounting sheet of that when I was putting meta world together to figure out how much money do I
need to make in order to be self sufficient. And then all the problems that started with GMF,
be to 2.0 and then catalyst 2.0 and it just throwing all that in the mix. So I want to share
those results because I've got numbers to back it up, not just anecdotes. So I'm gonna do a podcast
to show that and it won't be a spear throw, but it'll be a interesting revelation that was
unexpected to me. Someone who is new to the trusted partner system, someone who is new to publishing,
I'd never published an experience before or meant to an asset. And then I'm doing all at once trying
to learn how to be part of this community. And then I hit some roadblocks with what I expected.
And I'm struggling as a studio just like everyone else is, just like Pepe said yesterday or a few
days ago for Sanraj. So I want to explore into community members and the different groups in
sandbox. How do we interact? I want to do an episode on reviewing sandboxes, articles and
corporations, like really putting on a legal hat there and then just going through it.
Way forward for developers, that Pepe, I want to talk to Tushay, Geeky's, Meta Theory, Escape Room,
a bunch of other people, probably Andy, you too. Like what is the way forward for you all do you
see right now given the circumstances of where everything is with Catalyst and Builders Challenge
and Game Jam? The new jam they came up with, was it the social jam or something like that?
They just announced a few days ago. Yeah. How can the DAO help sandbox? What was that Andy?
Nothing, nothing.
How the DAO can help the sandbox, which we kind of went today. And then what does it mean for the
sandbox for itself? Also we did today, so I'm just going to strike those off the list.
Catalyst Chain System. Oh my gosh. That's one of the things that upended my studio.
Is the Catalyst Change. So I have some numbers I want to share and get the community's feedback
because that might result in a sip. So I want to get some other people's opinions
other than just my story of how it affected us.
Reward Mechanics for creators. It isn't just Builders Challenge. I heard someone mention that
in one of the AMAs. I thought that was awesome. I thought it was a great idea. I think it was
someone mentioned that in one of the AMAs. I thought that was awesome. And I want to explore
that more. And then different stuff about Mochaverse, how they're involved, AI assets,
which is what Pepe mentioned during your stream, Andy. And then tokenomics. Apparently that has a
part to play. And I want to learn more about how that factors into the DAO. So those are the things
I want to hit. And the current SIP process as old Pepe from Sandrush just experienced. You submit,
if you want to submit a proposal, you submit it to the email address that's on the website,
and you fill out their SIP template. It's a Google Doc that you fill out. And then you include that
in your email. Once that happens, then you go back and forth with the project management team
to improve it. After it reaches a point at which that team feels it's ready, they then give it to
the advisory, excuse me, the special counsel for yes, no, does it meet the intent? Does it not?
Once it goes through them, then it gets put into a vote
at the snapshot.org and sandboxdow.com. So that's the way we know it as of right now.
And yeah, if you're interested, please start submitting your SIPs so we can start learning
what we really want to do about the DAO and how we want to govern it. Thank you all for your time.
Andy, Hoddle, thank you so much for doing this. And at the end of the day, we're all just trying
to figure it out. So thank you all and have a great day. Appreciate you all. Thank you.
Appreciate you. Thanks for putting it out there.