WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.730 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:08.710 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:11.089 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.189 --> 00:00:15.750 I'm Mark McNacken. My co -host Rob Brant and 00:00:15.750 --> 00:00:18.469 I are joined today by Dan Adams, head of the 00:00:18.469 --> 00:00:21.949 Bank of Montreal Office of Reconciliation. BMO 00:00:21.949 --> 00:00:24.429 is Canada's oldest bank and one that has been 00:00:24.429 --> 00:00:28.390 banking Indigenous communities since 1992. Dan 00:00:28.390 --> 00:00:30.899 has spent his career turning Indigenous finance 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:34.000 into commercial reality. Under his leadership, 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.060 BMO's Indigenous portfolio has grown by over 00:00:37.060 --> 00:00:41.380 400%, with assets under administration now exceeding 00:00:41.380 --> 00:00:44.020 20 billion Canadian dollars, and the bank has 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:48.780 issued Canada's first ever Indigenous bond. In 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:51.479 today's conversation, you'll learn why Dan believes 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:54.679 capital markets are the next frontier for Indigenous 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.020 equity participation in major Canadian projects. 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.079 what the shift from consultation to ownership 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:04.400 means for project finance, and what foreign investors 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.659 need to understand about trust, relationships, 00:01:06.739 --> 00:01:09.780 and due diligence before deploying capital into 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:15.400 the space. Welcome, Dan Adams, head of Bank of 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.000 Montreal, BMO's Office of Reconciliation. Pleasure 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.900 to have you with us here today, Dan. Thank you 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:28.980 very much. It's nice to be here. So that meant, 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:31.599 hello Gradients, my name is Dan Adams and I'm 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.379 coming from Thunder Bay, Ontario. Well, thanks. 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:39.099 Hi, Dan. Thanks for taking the time to join us. 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.159 Why don't you start by telling us a little bit 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.680 about your personal story and where you grew 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.459 up and how you ended up at BMO and in financial 00:01:50.459 --> 00:01:53.299 services generally, I guess, many, many years 00:01:53.299 --> 00:01:58.159 ago. Yeah, for sure. So I guess it is personal 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:02.920 to me, and it is where I grew up and where my 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:05.920 family is and where I live. So I grew up in really 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.159 small communities in the North. Every community 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:14.039 was under 1 ,000 people. In Canada's North, Indigenous 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.080 peoples are not the minority, but in fact, we 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.080 really didn't think of it that way. We're just 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.080 friends and neighbors and family. I married an 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:25.400 Indigenous woman, so our children are members 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.699 of Sikeen First Nation, where their grandfather 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.439 was born, and that's in Treaty 1, just north 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:34.060 of Winnipeg. When I became a commercial banker 00:02:34.060 --> 00:02:38.319 for BMO in 2010, I had some First Nations in 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.080 my portfolio. And to be honest with you, I just 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:43.460 enjoy working with them more than my other customers. 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:46.520 So I naturally just grew that side of the portfolio 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.460 to one of the largest in Canada. In 2016, I was 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:52.819 promoted to Vice President of the Indigenous 00:02:52.819 --> 00:02:55.740 Banking Unit, and I absolutely loved it. I was 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.240 in communities most of the time, working with 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.439 councils, administration. We built infrastructure, 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:04.639 housing, economic development. We even banked 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.879 ice roads. It was a lot of fun, and it was full 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.870 of purpose. Wow. Why don't you talk a little 00:03:10.870 --> 00:03:13.289 bit about ice roads? Because for our listeners 00:03:13.289 --> 00:03:16.669 and viewers over here in the UK, when there's 00:03:16.669 --> 00:03:19.169 a few snowflakes, everything shuts down and you're 00:03:19.169 --> 00:03:22.650 talking about ice roads. So share them the joys 00:03:22.650 --> 00:03:26.770 of living in the North. So in Northern Ontario, 00:03:26.949 --> 00:03:30.229 especially in the further North you go in Ontario 00:03:30.229 --> 00:03:33.870 and many other parts in Northern Canada as well, 00:03:33.949 --> 00:03:37.229 a lot of the First Nation communities and Indigenous 00:03:37.229 --> 00:03:41.900 governments are located where there isn't all 00:03:41.900 --> 00:03:46.280 season roads so for the most part it's fly -in 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:51.900 only and for a couple short months and that window 00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:54.960 is getting smaller and smaller every year, they 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.840 build an ice road. So what that ice road really 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.819 means is it's over the snow. It's when, you know, 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.639 it's when lakes and muskeg and everything freezes, 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.599 they're able to put a road on it. And it's during 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.860 that small window where most of everything has 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:12.400 to be transported up to that community and anything 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:15.479 large, you know, for it could be it could be 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:20.250 fuel for power, but also. So any building material, 00:04:20.449 --> 00:04:22.889 you know, for houses or anything like that usually 00:04:22.889 --> 00:04:27.730 comes up on the winter ice roads ready to be 00:04:27.730 --> 00:04:32.149 built during that next summer season. And you 00:04:32.149 --> 00:04:35.490 said the season is shortening and those are vital 00:04:35.490 --> 00:04:40.009 lifelines, but at least the Ontario government 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:43.550 and in the far north too, there's plans to build 00:04:43.550 --> 00:04:47.449 all season roads through some pretty remote. 00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:51.949 communities. Right. Yeah. Sometimes industry 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:54.850 builds some roads that could be connected to 00:04:54.850 --> 00:04:56.589 a community. It could be, you know, it could 00:04:56.589 --> 00:04:58.509 be a mine, it could be forestry, it could be, 00:04:58.509 --> 00:05:01.470 you know, something like that. But a lot of the 00:05:01.470 --> 00:05:04.529 communities, especially where I am looking to 00:05:04.529 --> 00:05:07.610 Northern Ontario, and we call that Treaty 9 or 00:05:07.610 --> 00:05:11.509 NAN communities, most of them are still fly -in 00:05:11.509 --> 00:05:15.759 only. There's some great... air companies that 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:17.920 service that. One of our customers is Waseya 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.160 Airways. They do a great job as well as some 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.860 others went as well. And it's really a lifeline 00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:26.259 to those communities where, and that's the only 00:05:26.259 --> 00:05:28.300 place they could, you know, like I said, bring 00:05:28.300 --> 00:05:32.720 a food or sometimes even fuel for power and electricity. 00:05:33.699 --> 00:05:36.439 Yes. And thank you for that. And maybe just for 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:38.600 context, and I should have asked this earlier, 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:44.379 how far from Toronto is Thunder Bay? By plane. 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.920 So, well, by plane, it's not too bad. It's only 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:52.339 a couple hours. And there's several flights a 00:05:52.339 --> 00:05:56.759 day. So it is an easy commute to Toronto. And 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.279 I go there often. However, to drive it would 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:03.100 probably be about 16 hours of straight driving. 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.860 So usually a couple days. And some of the communities 00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:09.480 I was telling you about, that's still another. 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:14.160 between say 400 and 1200 kilometers north of 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.160 Thunder Bay even. So Ontario is a big place and 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.339 Canada is a big place. And again, it's not even 00:06:20.339 --> 00:06:23.379 just Northern Ontario. It's much of Canada's 00:06:23.379 --> 00:06:27.279 north. Yes. So thank you for that context because 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.819 when we drive up here to Scotland and it's a 00:06:30.819 --> 00:06:33.040 five hour, six hour drive going to the north. 00:06:33.220 --> 00:06:37.379 So just so our listeners understand the scale 00:06:37.379 --> 00:06:39.060 of it. But let's come back to what you've been 00:06:39.060 --> 00:06:42.389 doing. BMO announced the creation of the Office 00:06:42.389 --> 00:06:45.509 of Reconciliation in June 2025. It was a step 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:47.790 up from unit level banking to enterprise wide 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:50.589 mandate. Can you talk about that structural shift 00:06:50.589 --> 00:06:53.689 and what it means in practice and why BMO decided 00:06:53.689 --> 00:06:56.410 the moment was right to do this? Because you've 00:06:56.410 --> 00:06:58.870 been part of this journey the whole way. Yeah, 00:06:58.889 --> 00:07:01.569 I have. And we're proud. of the creation of the 00:07:01.569 --> 00:07:05.230 Office of Reconciliation in 2025. Though the 00:07:05.230 --> 00:07:08.709 milestone was years in the making, Mark, our 00:07:08.709 --> 00:07:10.910 journey began much earlier when we established 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:13.629 BMOS Indigenous Banking, and that was in 1992. 00:07:14.129 --> 00:07:16.129 And that was the first of its kind in Canada, 00:07:16.269 --> 00:07:20.329 and that was with Ron Jameson. Through deep engagement 00:07:20.329 --> 00:07:22.670 with Indigenous clients and communities, and 00:07:22.670 --> 00:07:25.250 by learning through really immersion into that 00:07:25.250 --> 00:07:28.910 culture, we came to recognize both clients and 00:07:28.910 --> 00:07:32.769 communities And the responsibility of the broader 00:07:32.769 --> 00:07:36.389 need for all of society, and definitely including 00:07:36.389 --> 00:07:40.930 us, is we need to learn. We need to evolve. We 00:07:40.930 --> 00:07:45.350 need to reconcile. This work compelled us to 00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:48.110 confront and remove a lot of policies that we've 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:51.350 had that was rooted in systemic discrimination. 00:07:51.670 --> 00:07:53.949 And we needed to replace them with approaches 00:07:53.949 --> 00:07:56.889 that was grounded in knowledge, respect, and 00:07:56.889 --> 00:08:00.370 inclusion. Examples would include recognizing 00:08:00.370 --> 00:08:03.990 First Nations governments and providing 100 % 00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:06.949 financing for community infrastructure without 00:08:06.949 --> 00:08:10.089 requiring any physical security, which is really 00:08:10.089 --> 00:08:14.050 circumventing Section 89 of the Indian Act. But 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:17.800 I always look back to really, you know... The 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:21.379 most groundbreaking work was done by the Center 00:08:21.379 --> 00:08:23.600 of Truth and Reconciliation and that commission 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:27.480 and the work that they did between 2008 and 2015. 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:32.139 And what they gifted Canada in 2015 was the 94 00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:35.740 Calls to Action. That was really a national roadmap 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:38.759 that opened the hearts and the minds across the 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.740 country, again, including BEMA with over 40 ,000 00:08:42.740 --> 00:08:46.659 employees just in Canada. Since then, our efforts 00:08:46.659 --> 00:08:49.200 have accelerated, beginning with a lot of internal 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:52.860 education and expanding into more inclusive policies 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:56.759 and financial products and programs. In 2019, 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:00.419 we launched the Indigenous Personal Banking Program, 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:02.679 which is essentially free banking for all Indigenous 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:05.919 people for a year. In 2020, we established our 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:08.720 Indigenous Advisory Council, and then we've even 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.980 created an Indigenous Virtual Banking Group. 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:14.100 And what that does is it overcomes the geographic 00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:16.899 barriers that we're just talking about, you know, 00:09:16.899 --> 00:09:19.620 the huge geography in Canada, right? If you look 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:21.940 at all the maps. Can't really say come and see 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:24.460 us at the branch, right? Yeah, you know, it's 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:27.480 true. If you look at the map of Canada and we're 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.820 not just BMO branches, we're like whole bank 00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:32.779 branches are, you know, the true access to banking. 00:09:33.179 --> 00:09:36.879 They're around. populated areas and you know 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:38.779 that makes sense you you need enough customers 00:09:38.779 --> 00:09:41.240 you need enough employees you know to make a 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.639 branch viable but then if you overlay that map 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:46.860 of where the first nations are located and in 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:49.539 canada they're often not in the same place and 00:09:49.539 --> 00:09:51.600 often a lot of the first nations that are again 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:55.720 in north or just more um at a distance you know 00:09:56.110 --> 00:09:59.710 from branch networks. So what our virtual banking 00:09:59.710 --> 00:10:02.750 group has done is they're able to service all 00:10:02.750 --> 00:10:04.889 of our Indigenous customers no matter the geography. 00:10:05.070 --> 00:10:07.990 And that includes opening up bank accounts. Before 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:10.409 we would have customers say in Attawapiskat or 00:10:10.409 --> 00:10:12.509 Ksheshawan, they would have spent thousands of 00:10:12.509 --> 00:10:15.590 dollars to fly to Timmins to open up a bank account. 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:19.269 And that wasn't right. And we needed to be better 00:10:19.269 --> 00:10:22.120 on that. So we're quite... you know proud that 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.179 we we created this to provide more access to 00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:27.559 banking we also created the first indigenous 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:31.639 entrepreneur program and what that is is um we 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.179 could service all indigenous entrepreneurs no 00:10:34.179 --> 00:10:37.059 matter where they live um whether it's on or 00:10:37.059 --> 00:10:40.179 off reserve we're not gonna um ask for physical 00:10:40.179 --> 00:10:43.240 security which again you know circumvents 89 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.899 of the indian act yeah and you know when we just 00:10:46.899 --> 00:10:50.059 created you know the first ever Indigenous bond 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:52.919 as well, too, plus many other initiatives. So 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:57.240 saying that reconciliation has always been part 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.899 of our work and we have been doing some good 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:03.519 work there. But to be honest, it was much of 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:06.200 that was carried out on the sides of our desks. 00:11:06.860 --> 00:11:09.919 And for several years now, we talked about, you 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.500 know, what if we had a dedicated team? You know, 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:14.799 how much more could we do? How much more work 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:18.740 could we accomplish? So I am proud of this investment 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:21.860 that we made. We're fully committed. We're all 00:11:21.860 --> 00:11:25.460 in to advancing reconciliation. But now it's 00:11:25.460 --> 00:11:28.340 in a real deliberate and consultative and meaningful 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:32.059 way. Dan, that's an impressive record of a lot 00:11:32.059 --> 00:11:36.440 of firsts in the Indigenous financial services 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.940 world, starting with the legendary Ron Jameson. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.700 Yeah. Who's well known in Canadian Indigenous 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:51.879 and banking. So he was BMO and focused on Indigenous 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:56.360 communities, helping bank them. And right up 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.940 to the most recent bond that was issued. We want 00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:03.440 to talk a little bit more about each of those 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.059 things, but it's great to see the evolution of 00:12:06.059 --> 00:12:11.720 the services that BMO has provided. And you talk 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.389 about what has changed in Canada over... say, 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:18.909 just the last 10 years. And we get that question, 00:12:18.950 --> 00:12:22.389 especially from foreign investors, what's different 00:12:22.389 --> 00:12:25.330 about Canada? One of the things that's different 00:12:25.330 --> 00:12:30.269 is the financial tools that are now available 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:34.470 to assist in economic development in Indigenous 00:12:34.470 --> 00:12:39.889 communities. So that bond you mentioned was very 00:12:39.889 --> 00:12:43.720 cool. Tell us a little bit more about that. Yeah, 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.100 so the bond's interesting and it's a little bit 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:49.559 different than what a traditional sense of a 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.740 purpose of a bond. So often, bonds are created 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:57.179 to raise money through that debt instrument. 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.120 And once that... pool of money is raised then 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.100 it could be you know put out into the market 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.360 so our bond is a little bit different where it's 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:08.000 from already our existing portfolio and a lot 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.100 of this conversation came from you know years 00:13:10.100 --> 00:13:11.919 in the making where we would have it you know 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.039 with our peers in the investment world whether 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.519 it's you know it's a pension plan or or just 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.639 anywhere else in corporate canada when we're 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.240 talking about our reconciliation journey um sometimes 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.620 we would say yeah but you know you're a bank 00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:26.679 you're you're able to provide a loan to a first 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.500 nation so they could build a house or you're 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.879 able to you know to invest um directly into that 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.399 economic development corporation that's owned 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.539 by an indigenous government um you know and then 00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:39.259 they would say you know that's not our line of 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:42.639 business so we we can't participate in that economic 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.940 reconciliation so through lots of different conversations 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:50.100 and just through our own um track record of of 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:53.019 creating sustainable bonds and through that framework 00:13:53.019 --> 00:13:55.720 we thought well what if we were to have an indigenous 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:59.580 bond what if we and and that would be available 00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:04.200 to to all investors to say that this is an opportunity 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.559 that you as well could participate in economic 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:12.159 reconciliation um and uh we're just fortunate 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.320 and grateful that we do have a long track record 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.980 of having some you know some some great customers 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:22.419 um who trusted us to finance community infrastructure 00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:26.039 economic development um and all those great things 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.769 so we we carefully packaged up some of that term 00:14:30.769 --> 00:14:35.409 debt and we were quite curious to see what the 00:14:35.409 --> 00:14:39.590 market would be like. And as we thought, it was 00:14:39.590 --> 00:14:43.110 received really well and institutional investors 00:14:43.110 --> 00:14:48.090 purchased it almost immediately. So that's something 00:14:48.090 --> 00:14:50.110 that we would like to continue doing and we hope 00:14:50.110 --> 00:14:53.070 others will do as well. And how will that money 00:14:53.070 --> 00:14:56.830 be deployed then? Yeah, so like I said, it's 00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:59.350 already basically have been deployed, right? 00:14:59.450 --> 00:15:02.809 So that money, those term loans are already in 00:15:02.809 --> 00:15:06.649 community and it's already, you know, built houses 00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:12.450 and used for, you know, operating for own source 00:15:12.450 --> 00:15:15.009 revenue and in community infrastructure and economic 00:15:15.009 --> 00:15:17.830 development and things like that. So the track 00:15:17.830 --> 00:15:20.409 record was already there and the purpose was 00:15:20.409 --> 00:15:25.399 already met. And it was just, and again, opportunity 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.899 for others to participate in some of that debt 00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:32.320 and those loans. With that, did you have also 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:37.559 international institutions participate or it 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.039 was just in the Canadian domestic market? Yeah, 00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:42.440 our capital markets folks would probably know 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.080 the answer to that more than I would. However, 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:49.139 I believe that it was purchased so quickly and 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:52.450 it was all Canadian investors. Yes. Okay, well, 00:15:52.590 --> 00:15:54.809 closest to the market, that's what happens when 00:15:54.809 --> 00:15:56.470 you understand the market you're in and something 00:15:56.470 --> 00:15:59.529 like that comes out. So that is an important 00:15:59.529 --> 00:16:02.389 step. Sounds like there may be more coming, more 00:16:02.389 --> 00:16:07.370 opportunities. Yeah, for sure. So I think that 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.149 was one of the initiatives that you've talked 00:16:09.149 --> 00:16:12.429 about in terms of enterprise -wide across BMO. 00:16:12.769 --> 00:16:15.009 When you're walking a business line in your new 00:16:15.009 --> 00:16:17.610 role that has historically had little direct 00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:20.330 Indigenous engagement, how do you make the case 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:24.200 to them? how do they understand besides it's 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.220 a corporate mandate and we're doing this how 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:28.899 do you bring them along because you also you 00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:32.240 have you have a great personal background to 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.399 be able to understand both perspectives right 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.960 and i guess that's true for a lot of the um the 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.360 folks that work within the most indigenous banking 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.120 unit i mean we're all commercial bankers um by 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.240 background and we've all you know um been doing 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.620 it you know, the groundwork, so to speak, in 00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:55.419 communities and so on. So when we get promoted 00:16:55.419 --> 00:17:00.200 to other positions, we're able to try to bring 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.279 in more support and more commitment from the 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.119 broader enterprise. But what I, as I mentioned 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.079 before, is really the Indigenous Banking Unit. 00:17:08.259 --> 00:17:11.279 I mean, and we talked about Ron Jamieson, Rob, 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.400 he started 34 years ago. and and when ron started 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.440 and this is ron's story and i love telling it 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.079 because uh he told me so many times um when he 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.099 first started he would he would basically just 00:17:25.099 --> 00:17:27.359 ask questions he would say you know well why 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:28.900 are you doing it this way why are you doing it 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:32.220 that way and how ron tells the story is he would 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:34.319 get the same answers back is like well ron we're 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.599 a bank that's how we do things and then ron would 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.400 say well don't you know how it works Right. And 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.180 then Ron would start educating. Right. And that 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:45.339 was really the 34 years ago is when we started 00:17:45.339 --> 00:17:49.720 our journey of knowledge and learning really 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:53.079 how things work. And when you think of like Indigenous 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:56.539 people across Canada, just like Ron. always been 00:17:56.539 --> 00:17:59.279 leaders in business governments and within their 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.099 own communities and within our own employees 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:04.779 our indigenous employees our customers and partners 00:18:04.779 --> 00:18:06.960 they're highly capable and forward -thinking 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.720 and they're all very deeply entrepreneurial which 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.160 has always been helpful and canada is strongest 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.640 when indigenous knowledge leadership and full 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:20.660 participation are fully engaged over the last 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:23.319 five years be most indigenous portfolio grew 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:27.019 over 400 percent reflecting both the momentum, 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.960 but also within Indigenous communities, but also 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:32.220 within the trust, you know, that we were able 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.259 to build in the longstanding relationships. Indigenous 00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:37.900 peoples represent the fastest growing demographic 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:41.599 in Canada, and some of the most educated as well. 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:46.180 So global. You know, when we look at markets, 00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:49.240 I think they are taking notice as Indigenous 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.960 communities, especially now they're starting 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.980 to assert their legal and their treaty and their 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:59.500 territorial rights. And doing so through these 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:01.980 approaches, especially when they're grounded 00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:05.019 in relationships and environmental stewardship 00:19:05.019 --> 00:19:07.799 as well, too. They are stewards of the land and 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.400 also social development. the whole country a 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.740 better place. These principles are not only value 00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:17.200 -based, but they create sustainable long -term 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.240 economic growth that benefits communities, partners, 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:25.420 but the overall broader economy. And I think 00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:29.079 this story you've shared with us when Ron started 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.480 out this process, and I think this is what international 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:36.900 investors are seeing. This isn't new. It's been... 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:39.980 Under the surface, and it's been a long, hard 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:42.240 journey, as it always has been, unfortunately, 00:19:42.339 --> 00:19:45.279 for the Indigenous people in Canada, but is now 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.440 coming out to fruition, where all of a sudden 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.259 you have this base of knowledge, you have some 00:19:51.259 --> 00:19:55.480 very successful entrepreneurs. You know, we've 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.200 talked about some of the most successful entrepreneurs 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:59.740 in Canada today are Indigenous because they've 00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:02.519 always had the system against them. So that's 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.200 kind of changing around. So I think that was 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.859 an interesting background. one other thing on 00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:10.980 on that too mark is yeah it has been you know 00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:13.839 it has really been decades in the making you're 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.859 correct on that but i i feel that we were growing 00:20:17.859 --> 00:20:20.980 together in many ways where you know where the 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.059 nations themselves they were creating capacity 00:20:23.059 --> 00:20:26.980 and they were you know on changing um even the 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.259 mindsets within their own community about you 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:31.480 know growing businesses and own source revenue 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.579 and on in and out of their even their traditional 00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:37.440 territory sometimes right that's a good a good 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:39.279 business is a good business no matter where it 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:44.259 is um at the same time we were we were fine -tuning 00:20:44.259 --> 00:20:47.039 our own policy and we were getting better too 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.720 and we were we were learning her ourselves and 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.920 i always look to our customer as saying it's 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.059 like you know every year i think they look at 00:20:57.059 --> 00:20:59.779 look to us and all the banks really is to be 00:20:59.779 --> 00:21:02.720 better and and that always gave us the motivation 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.779 it's like okay you know we did good work last 00:21:04.779 --> 00:21:07.160 year but we gotta keep going there there's more 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.180 to be done and we gotta get better we gotta we 00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:11.279 need better policies we need better products 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.460 and every year i i think we we do a lot of that 00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:18.619 but there's still a long ways to go yeah i can't 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:22.630 wait to see what's next dan for BMO. It's obviously 00:21:22.630 --> 00:21:26.849 talked a lot about doing the right thing for 00:21:26.849 --> 00:21:29.190 Indigenous communities and how to assist, but 00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:31.210 it's pretty clear it's been good for business 00:21:31.210 --> 00:21:34.910 too for BMO. You wouldn't see those tools that 00:21:34.910 --> 00:21:39.369 you've helped develop over the years if it didn't 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:43.390 make good business sense for the bank. Absolutely. 00:21:43.930 --> 00:21:47.789 It is great business. And it's, you know, sometimes 00:21:47.789 --> 00:21:50.930 you see you know, being mentioned at the same 00:21:50.930 --> 00:21:54.210 time as like DE &I. It's not, not at all. I mean, 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:58.630 this is good business. They're amazing customers. 00:21:58.910 --> 00:22:02.109 Great track record of, you know, loyal, long 00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:07.630 lasting relationships on both sides. And I just 00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:10.130 look at, you know, some of the other lines of 00:22:10.130 --> 00:22:12.700 business that might not have that. the tenure 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:15.539 as you know if you look at say personal banking 00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.599 or commercial banking commercial banking has 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.079 always been like you know the main relationship 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.859 of the indigenous government right and then the 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.599 personal banking was was always taking care of 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.920 the individuals the members no matter where they 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.980 live across canada um but now you see you know 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.640 capital markets you see investment banking you 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.319 see wealth so that's really interesting because 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.160 they might not have that tenure um however the 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.000 way that bmo has always operated is that we have 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.460 always looked at everything as it's one bank 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:50.539 one client um so we're able to take that track 00:22:50.539 --> 00:22:52.359 record that we have another lines of business 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.599 and it really transcends right across the whole 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.720 enterprise um that it is you know valuable business 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.460 it's good like we love our customers as well 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:06.619 as um Lots of growth potential as well, too. 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:08.859 So the Indigenous Banking Unit and the Office 00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:12.599 of Reconciliation is right across the whole enterprise 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.240 of BMO. That's what I was just going to ask that. 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:21.799 Yeah. Are you into the investment banking, wealth 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:26.200 management, asset management across the bank? 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.299 Is your group involved in some way in assisting 00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:32.250 some of those initiatives? Yeah, we really are. 00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:34.230 And it's not to say that, you know, we go into 00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:36.069 capital markets and we tell them how to structure 00:23:36.069 --> 00:23:39.150 a deal. But what we do is we provide education 00:23:39.150 --> 00:23:45.910 and we help them to understand how to have a 00:23:45.910 --> 00:23:49.670 long lasting relationship built on trust. And 00:23:49.670 --> 00:23:51.670 you got to earn that trust and you got to go 00:23:51.670 --> 00:23:55.930 on community. And sometimes it takes time, but 00:23:55.930 --> 00:23:59.069 it's worth it. And you have to do things. right 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:03.170 and properly and respectfully. And that doesn't 00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:04.930 matter what line of business you're in, whether 00:24:04.930 --> 00:24:08.390 it's commercial banking, corporate finance, capital 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:12.410 markets, wealth. It really doesn't matter. Relationships 00:24:12.410 --> 00:24:16.750 are the cornerstone of that. We're seeing now 00:24:16.750 --> 00:24:19.849 also Indigenous nations moving from being consulted 00:24:19.849 --> 00:24:23.430 to having equity stakes. And what are you seeing 00:24:23.430 --> 00:24:26.710 now in terms of institutional financing infrastructure? 00:24:27.690 --> 00:24:31.289 to enable that and how far along is canada building 00:24:31.289 --> 00:24:34.309 it so if it outside investors looking at canada 00:24:34.309 --> 00:24:37.930 and thinking should i be working at this now 00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:41.789 or do i wait a bit more or well i know investors 00:24:41.789 --> 00:24:43.990 look for growth and they look for value right 00:24:43.990 --> 00:24:47.970 so i did mention that our portfolio grew 400 00:24:47.970 --> 00:24:52.900 percent just in a handful of years. I don't know 00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:55.319 if there's any other part of the bank that could 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:59.119 say the same. And including assets under administration, 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.539 our balance has now exceeded over $20 billion. 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.720 So to me, that's clear evidence of both scale 00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:10.039 and the speed of progress among our customers. 00:25:12.109 --> 00:25:15.269 So 15 years ago, if you look at what we would 00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:19.029 normally provide service for an Indigenous government 00:25:19.029 --> 00:25:22.250 customer, it was largely based on bridging government 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:26.549 funding to meet basic operating needs. Sometimes 00:25:26.549 --> 00:25:30.829 it was just meeting a payroll or to build a modest 00:25:30.829 --> 00:25:34.230 level amount of houses or maybe a community center. 00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:39.539 That reality has changed profoundly. Today, our 00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:41.740 customers are generating meaningful own source 00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:44.319 revenue, offsetting what I would say that the 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.559 chronic government underfunding and investing 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.440 in economic development, both within and beyond 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:55.079 their community and their traditional territory. 00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.440 Their needs have evolved accordingly. many years 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:04.059 ago too it was often just loans right um and 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.660 and so i would say from primarily borrowing they're 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:11.680 seeking sophisticated uh wealth management now 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.579 and it's long -term planning and capital preservation 00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:18.359 strategies uh this evolution is also a tangible 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:23.569 expression i believe of reconciliation Economic 00:26:23.569 --> 00:26:26.869 participation in financial self -determination 00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:29.150 and access to the full spectrum of financial 00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:31.809 tools are fundamental to rebuilding that prosperity 00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:36.809 and correcting really a lot of historical inequities. 00:26:36.990 --> 00:26:39.950 So supporting Indigenous governments and enterprises 00:26:39.950 --> 00:26:43.059 as they transition from fiscal constraint. to 00:26:43.059 --> 00:26:46.059 economic leadership, sometimes in the whole region, 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:49.140 is not only good for banking, but it's central 00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.680 to advancing reconciliation through sustained 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.700 and measurable outcomes. I think you mentioned 00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:56.920 like capital markets, and I find that really 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.819 interesting because I believe that capital markets 00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:03.880 are probably the next phase of the journey, and 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:06.680 that will be the next evolution of Indigenous 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:11.039 participation in the major projects. So bank 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.220 capital, market teams could play a critical role 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:20.099 in actually offering a financing for a transaction. 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:26.619 But then you could also have financial equity 00:27:26.619 --> 00:27:29.359 positions on either side of that transaction. 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.210 And those are both needed. you know whether whether 00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:36.609 it's first nation you know participation in some 00:27:36.609 --> 00:27:39.250 sort of equity but also on the industry side 00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:41.829 too so both sides of the equation needs financing 00:27:41.829 --> 00:27:45.490 um and then i think what we could do a little 00:27:45.490 --> 00:27:48.750 bit more of is traditional but also innovative 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:53.029 capital raising structures as well too um and 00:27:53.029 --> 00:27:57.650 even more so than that is advisory right um we 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:01.059 gotta together on, you know, as a relationship 00:28:01.059 --> 00:28:03.259 that you have to navigate some pretty complex 00:28:03.259 --> 00:28:06.680 transactions, but also some regulatory frameworks 00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:11.220 and now government guarantees as well. So in 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:13.240 this space, reconciliation, I believe, is built 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.839 on trust, consistency, and it's that partnership 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.480 ensuring Indigenous participation is not symbolic. 00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:24.039 It's more substantive and enduring that value 00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:26.900 creating. So it always comes down to, I believe 00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:29.660 that trusted relationships will really be the 00:28:29.660 --> 00:28:32.859 success and moving forward for the next chapter. 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.579 Yeah, right on, Dan. And you've got so much experience 00:28:37.579 --> 00:28:41.839 banking Indigenous projects and communities, 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:47.019 living in the communities yourself. What advice 00:28:47.019 --> 00:28:49.789 would you have for? foreign investors in particular 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:53.250 who are looking at Canadian projects involving 00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:56.230 Indigenous people and needing to understand what, 00:28:56.289 --> 00:28:59.450 well, not knowing what they don't know, I guess. 00:29:00.210 --> 00:29:05.390 Any top tips? Sure. Yeah, there are a few. When 00:29:05.390 --> 00:29:08.029 I think of, like, just if I were to say just 00:29:08.029 --> 00:29:12.369 a few different things, you know, first, I would, 00:29:12.390 --> 00:29:14.829 for an investor, I would say that make sure the 00:29:14.829 --> 00:29:18.500 Indigenous government supports the project. through 00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:23.700 and through. And that consultative process is 00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:26.680 done in a respectful and fulsome way with community 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.420 engagement. Just to ensure that all that regulatory, 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.319 the environmental, the compliance, the UNDRIP 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.440 ethic, everything that has been satisfied. The 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.359 second thing I would say is make sure the project 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:43.960 makes sense long -term, extending beyond those 00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:47.099 current political cycles. both you know locally 00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:50.480 but but also federally as well too and earning 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.720 the support of local residents for generations 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.700 to come because all of these projects are for 00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:58.579 many many generations right and yeah it could 00:29:58.579 --> 00:30:01.119 make sense now but will it make sense in 20 years 00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.420 just to make sure the community is actually supportive 00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:08.740 of that as well um and finally i'm going back 00:30:08.740 --> 00:30:11.700 to relationships matter so indigenous partnerships 00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:15.920 are not a box the checking exercise they require 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.279 time and they require trust and you have to earn 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:23.000 that to be successful great lessons and you know 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.460 coming back to that relationships when we go 00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:28.359 back and look at ourselves or talk to our parents 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.220 and grandparents business used to be done based 00:30:31.220 --> 00:30:34.420 on relationships yeah so you're kind of coming 00:30:34.420 --> 00:30:37.640 back and the indigenous people talk very much 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.539 about relationships whereas the non -indigenous 00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:43.829 have had to suffer relationships don't count 00:30:43.829 --> 00:30:46.130 anymore. It's a transaction. Here's a price. 00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:49.250 Do you want it or not? Indigenous are coming 00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:52.029 and saying, rightfully, as rights holders, hey, 00:30:52.150 --> 00:30:54.089 we're going to work on this together because 00:30:54.089 --> 00:30:56.210 if you don't start with us, you're going to end 00:30:56.210 --> 00:30:57.769 up with us at the end of the process. And if 00:30:57.769 --> 00:30:59.970 you wasted all that time, we're just going to 00:30:59.970 --> 00:31:02.250 start from zero whenever you get to us. So it's 00:31:02.250 --> 00:31:04.769 important to have those early conversations to 00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:06.950 just introduce yourself and your project and 00:31:06.950 --> 00:31:09.869 what you're trying to achieve and get the input 00:31:09.869 --> 00:31:12.400 from the Indigenous people. They want to have 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.279 the opportunity as much as anyone. And now that 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:16.779 they're rights holders, it's no longer clear, 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:19.140 oh, do we just have to ask them what can we do? 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.119 It's no, they've got a seat at the table, right? 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.240 So treat them as the partners they are that have 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.839 been reinforced by the Supreme Court and the 00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:33.079 Constitution and the attitude now of the progressive 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.299 organizations, the banks, BMO. You know, nobody's 00:31:37.299 --> 00:31:39.000 going to be able to go and say they weren't told. 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:41.160 Oh, that's a surprise. I didn't know I needed 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.119 to do that, right? The duty to consult, I mean, 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.980 that's not new. That was part of Section 35, 00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:54.700 you know, going back into the 1980s. And that 00:31:54.700 --> 00:31:56.819 really is a government duty. But historically, 00:31:57.019 --> 00:31:59.319 that was delegated, you know, from government 00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.599 to industry. And that wasn't always done. in 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.599 a good way, right? A lot of times it was just 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.980 industry informing of the decisions and then 00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:11.240 saying, well, you know, I told them and consulted 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:17.619 and it wasn't done in a meaningful way. And now, 00:32:17.900 --> 00:32:21.740 you know, nations have that opportunity to shape, 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:26.359 you know, the project and to be on the, not the 00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:30.619 decisioning, but to be an owner. being on the 00:32:30.619 --> 00:32:33.779 owner's table of that is absolutely huge and 00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:37.859 it's needed. So I look at like today, the model 00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:41.500 is changing in a fundamental way. The Indigenous 00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:44.680 governments have really moved beyond the consultation 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.740 part of it to the ownership and governance of 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:51.539 projects. Equity participation, I think, not 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:55.390 only aligns the interest but it also ensures 00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:59.250 long -term community benefit and and accountability 00:32:59.250 --> 00:33:03.049 so I think industry has come a long way as well 00:33:03.049 --> 00:33:05.450 too not only with government and especially you 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:08.390 know accepting the legislation of Vendrick certainly 00:33:08.390 --> 00:33:11.589 will help and will mandate some of these things 00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:15.529 but I think of also even public policy so public 00:33:15.529 --> 00:33:19.359 policy has been a critical enabler of that shift. 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.000 One great example, and I'm sure they won't mind 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.640 me saying it, is Ontario Hydro One. So they now 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.299 actually have a framework and within policy for 00:33:28.299 --> 00:33:31.140 all new transmission lines, there is Indigenous 00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:36.200 ownership. So they're normalizing it. And it's 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:40.960 now becoming a part of ownership of major infrastructure 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.480 development. And I think that's great. Government 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.710 guarantees have also... going to play and will 00:33:47.710 --> 00:33:51.009 play an important role. And there's a couple 00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:53.609 under their belt right now, which is good, but 00:33:53.609 --> 00:33:56.849 particularly with projects with some construction 00:33:56.849 --> 00:34:00.190 risk as well, too. So so that's going to play 00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:06.150 an important role for banks to look at, you know, 00:34:06.150 --> 00:34:08.969 whether or not you finance these. They always 00:34:08.969 --> 00:34:12.110 look at risk, do their due diligence. And and 00:34:12.110 --> 00:34:16.139 with that comes from, you know, well, What if 00:34:16.139 --> 00:34:18.460 there is a hiccup? Where's the recourse, right? 00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:23.460 And many of these projects now, they're in hundreds 00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:25.579 of millions of dollars, and it could involve 00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:30.000 a small community. And that is now out of scope 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.179 of what they're able to provide, some sort of 00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:36.840 recourse. So that government guarantee actually 00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:42.139 makes that recourse, makes a financer look at 00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:46.119 the actual merits. of that project itself. And 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.840 instead of looking at a small community saying, 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.960 well, what other revenue, you know, could you 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:55.840 use? That revenue really should be for the community. 00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:58.860 It should be for social services, for infrastructure, 00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.940 for economic development, not so much for recourse 00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:05.500 because, you know, their land is being impacted 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:07.840 in their traditional and within their traditional 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.480 territory. So that guarantee is going to be big. 00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:14.909 And I think this Canadian banks in general. remain 00:35:14.909 --> 00:35:20.050 eager in supporting it. And there is a growing 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:24.030 sentiment of the alignment within different governments 00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:27.309 as well, being both federal and provincial. Yeah, 00:35:27.409 --> 00:35:29.409 so many great things going on, Dan. And you've 00:35:29.409 --> 00:35:32.849 got a unique position in Thunder Bay, unique 00:35:32.849 --> 00:35:36.329 view into the north, not just northern Ontario, 00:35:36.449 --> 00:35:40.309 but northern Canada and the far north. Are you 00:35:40.309 --> 00:35:44.559 seeing an uptick in interest? It's certainly 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.079 an uptick in activity and Indigenous communities 00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.739 are at the center of it all in the North. Yeah, 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.619 100%. And it's well diversified. So it's energy, 00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:00.239 it's mining, it's forestry. And then also, too, 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:02.699 a lot of the First Nations, no matter where they're 00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:06.800 geographically located, you know, they're part 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:11.559 of the urban. infrastructure as well too, like 00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:14.179 within the cities, whether it's Thunder Bay, 00:36:14.260 --> 00:36:18.059 Sault Ste. Marie, Sudbury, Winnipeg, many of 00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:21.139 those communities now that they have their offices 00:36:21.139 --> 00:36:25.380 located in the city, many of their members live 00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:28.179 in the city. So they're investing in housing 00:36:28.179 --> 00:36:32.440 and businesses and economic opportunities all 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:35.059 over the place, which is really great to see. 00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:38.239 Yes, it is. And we're very pleased that we have 00:36:38.849 --> 00:36:41.630 One of your colleagues from BMO will be joining 00:36:41.630 --> 00:36:44.429 us in London this year at the summit coming up 00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:47.050 on April 7th in the Square Mall, which is very 00:36:47.050 --> 00:36:51.309 good. But I know every June you have an annual 00:36:51.309 --> 00:36:54.489 report, your Indigenous Partnerships and Progress 00:36:54.489 --> 00:36:56.489 report. Can you just talk a little bit about 00:36:56.489 --> 00:36:59.610 that? So our audience will remember to pick it 00:36:59.610 --> 00:37:01.570 up and we'll probably highlight it when it comes 00:37:01.570 --> 00:37:05.190 out. So it's this one right here. Every year. 00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:08.599 We create an Indigenous Partnership and Progress 00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:12.539 Report. We try to make it as transparent as possible. 00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:17.139 We actually even put our portfolio numbers on 00:37:17.139 --> 00:37:20.599 there as well. But it's really an opportunity 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.940 to provide an update of what we've been doing 00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:26.480 the last few years, or sorry, the last 12 months. 00:37:27.019 --> 00:37:31.519 And within that report, we give the opportunity 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:34.779 for our customers to tell their stories. And 00:37:34.779 --> 00:37:36.960 that's always my favorite part. Great. Well, 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.000 I look forward to reading that when it comes 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.360 out. Thank you. Well, I just want to say thank 00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:44.059 you for that. You're keeping the conversation 00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:47.460 going. You're making the conversation mainstream. 00:37:48.260 --> 00:37:51.780 And I always say that we should be normalizing 00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:55.860 this. This shouldn't be a specialization of banking. 00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.139 Everyone should have this knowledge and this 00:37:59.139 --> 00:38:02.460 education. So we're within the Office of Reconciliation. 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.059 We're all in on education. We're doing a lot 00:38:05.059 --> 00:38:07.639 of different things because knowledge does matter 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.300 and it does help inform policies and practices. 00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:14.079 So thanks for the conversation. Thanks for inviting 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:18.030 me. Yeah, thanks again for the time. Dan, and 00:38:18.030 --> 00:38:20.889 running through so many interesting initiatives 00:38:20.889 --> 00:38:23.389 that you've been involved with, helped lead, 00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:26.750 and sounds like you're going to continue to lead 00:38:26.750 --> 00:38:30.869 for some time to come. Well done. Much appreciated. 00:38:30.929 --> 00:38:37.670 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Dan Adams 00:38:37.670 --> 00:38:40.210 for sharing his insights with us, and thank you 00:38:40.210 --> 00:38:43.329 for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:38:43.329 --> 00:38:46.269 for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on 00:38:46.269 --> 00:38:49.099 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.619 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:54.739 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next 00:38:54.739 --> 00:38:55.079 time.