Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Branton
are joined today by Jonathan Davey, Managing
Director of Indigenous and Government Advisory
at Scotiabank. In part one of our conversation
with John, we heard how a decade inside Canada's
legal system shaped his understanding of Indigenous
finance, why Scotiabank made a mutual investment
in building their Indigenous advisory practice
from scratch, and what the creation of Cedar
Leaf Capital signals about where Canada's capital
markets are heading. In the second part, we get
into the details that really matter most for
institutional investors evaluating opportunities
in Canada. John breaks down Section 89 of the
Indian Act, the single biggest barrier to capital
access for Indigenous communities, and explains
some of the novel structures practitioners use
to work around it. We then move into the developments
that are generally changing the calculus for
international investors. Canada's $10 billion
Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation. Forthcoming
amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management
Act. and what the Build Canada Act means for
project timelines and Indigenous equity participation.
If you haven't listened to part one yet, we'd
encourage you to start there. But if you're coming
straight to the numbers and the policy, this
is the place to be. Maybe, John, we could talk
a little bit about the Indian Act and some of
the specifics, because you are an expert and
you've mentioned some of the issues. We had Tracy
Smith recently. from Kiwi Capital. And she set
up that organization to try to fill a gap, a
financing gap, particularly on reserve. And so
maybe explain some of the very basics about what
makes it difficult for banks and other lenders
to finance on reserve in particular. Sure. And
especially, Rob, if you're If you're a foreign
investor looking to work with Indigenous groups
or you're looking at major projects, major project
development in Canada, and you don't know where
to start, that's the perspective I'm taking this
question from. I'd say Section 89 of the Indian
Act is the best place to start because it's the
worst place. Section 89 says you can't use assets
that are domiciled on reserve as collateral.
So it undermines this. this ability to have you
know equity and fixtures and chattels and the
assets that's domiciled on reserve if you're
a first nations person business or government
and so just if i was to stop there and not say
anything else you'd think well that's so prohibitive
of accessing capital why would i ever want to
work with the first nation knowing that they
have to operate under that constraint Yeah, when
you think about what kind of a constraint that
is, that is, you know, being able to leverage
assets and your asset base, that is sort of fundamental
to being able to grow and participate in any
economy. Exactly. And even, you know, you mentioned
Tracy being on the podcast before. Housing is
where it's, I think, most acute. You can see
it where if you can't have a traditional mortgage
on reserve, how is it that you build equity on
an individual basis? But I would say that if
you're looking at that, just understand that
when we talk about restrictions, first of all,
in that case, we're just talking about First
Nations. We're not talking about Métis or Inuit.
But it's also, okay, if you can't access capital,
What does that actually mean? How do you work
around it or work through it? So we talked about
why I enjoy working at Scotiabank so much. They
were very supportive when I set up the First
Nation Leasehold Financing Program. So leveraging
leasehold interests under the Indian Act, First
Nation Land Management Act, and self -governing
agreements. So essentially to say that, hey,
if Section 89 prevents you from taking an interest,
a collateralized interest in a fixture like a
home or... you know a commercial building the
leasehold interest may allow you to take uh you
know an interest in the lease itself the instrument
that allows for use and access and so this is
some of the innovation that we're looking at
and we've been executing for a number of years
now to say that just because you see an impediment
like section 89 doesn't mean that there are ways
that we can work around it and rob some of the
work that you've done uh and your firm has done
to create investment vehicles that would create
separation from you know a first nation government
to you know government business enterprise that
might be owned by the nation but you're creating
these models of general partnerships and limited
partnerships that then create on -source revenue
what's really powerful about that that people
wouldn't realize that first blush if they're
new to working with indigenous groups or looking
to space is the tax optimization that's allowed
under legislation like the Indian Act to allow
those entities to actually create a greater benefit
and a greater yield on their return because they
are not subject to the same tax laws as a non
-indigenous business. And so, you know, it's
one of these expansive questions, Rob, as you
and Mark can appreciate. It's kind of like, what
is math? And you try to start to explain it.
Well, when we talk about restrictions, I think...
the vast majority of the time it reverts back
to section 89 and not being able to have a collateralized
value of an asset on reserve and then the depreciation
of that asset over time so from the financial
point of view it makes it very detrimental but
what's great and it doesn't act as a complete
counterbalance but it is something to consider
is just how do you set up the different investment
structures whether it's uh you know for the purpose
of an spv or it's just your your economic development
corporation in the form of a limited partnership
Why is it that those structures exist? How are
they optimized? How do they reduce reliance on
federal oversight? How is it that you can have
greater control over an entity or over a business
enterprise as a First Nation or First Nation
government business enterprise where you're actually
able to invest in a different way that's more
tax optimized and not subject to the same laws
and regulations of the Income Tax Act or Indian
Act that a non -Indigenous group. would be subject
to. So I would say that if you're new to this
and you're looking at the Indian Act, just know
that there's a big restriction at theirs or certainly
others. But there's ways, like I was saying before,
when it comes to the Indian Act, there's places
of vulnerability and there's places of exploitation
where you can actually exploit that use in a
positive way. Like you can actually work under
the Indian Act in a way that would be beneficial
to you. that I would certainly encourage anybody
that's interested in knowing to reach out to
us to talk about because that's kind of where
we operate. So I also think if you look at financial
markets worldwide, how have they grown so dramatically
over the past half century? It's because this
focus on innovation and where there's a will
the way and how do you make it work? And I think
you agree with that. That's basically what you're
saying, the opportunity for innovation to unleash
these assets. which there's still first mover
advantages because we're still figuring out how
best to access that and present those opportunities
and find solutions that give this underrepresented
communities, the First Nations, opportunities
to succeed. And that's where some of the growth
is coming from. Sure, Mark. There's definitely
innovation, and I think that's going to continue.
I think what's new that's become a greater focal
point is the concessionary capital that's coming
into the market for Indigenous groups, as well
as loan guarantees that will just lower risk
weights on assets, on loans. Explain a little
bit about what you mean by concessionary capital.
Sure. Sure. So it's really, it's low cost of
funds for Indigenous parties, particularly focused
on Indigenous parties making an equity investment.
And so, you know, there's a couple of sources,
but the biggest one is the First Nation Finance
Authority. We're having this conversation now
in March of 2026. We're going to see the First
Nation Financial Management Act amended very
soon to allow for the First Nation Finance Authority.
to provide concessionary capital to Indigenous
special purpose vehicles. So right now they can
only lend to Indigenous groups. And so what does
that all mean if this is new information? Really
what it nets out to is you have lower cost of
capital for Indigenous groups that are looking
to make an equity investment in some of these
bigger projects. Coupled with that, you have
loan guarantee programs federally. There's a
$10 billion loan guarantee program. And then
there's two programs that are worth $3 billion,
one in Alberta, another in Ontario, and then
BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are all standing
up or have stood up similar programs of a bit
smaller scale. And essentially, when we talk
about loan guarantees, we're talking about contingent
liability that's dedicated to just backstopping
loans. So if you're a financial institution like
Scotiabank, the risk weights on the assets that
you'd be deploying are just brought to zero.
or they're brought down. So the cost of capital
becomes lower again. And so if you're looking
at investments that are happening, there's certainly
a great incentive for Indigenous parties to come
together, especially after this amendment to
the First Nation Fiscal Management Act, for the
purpose of making an equity investment. So when
you do that, you get lower cost of funds, or
you can get, I should say, you won't necessarily
get, but you can get. lower cost of capital that
can then be put towards uh an equity purchase
or an asset purchase and where that becomes very
appealing for anybody that's outside the community
is you can only imagine what it's like if you
were to you know joint venture with that indigenous
special purpose vehicle or look to have an indigenous
partner this is where i think a lot of people
are focused mark the innovation that we're talking
about before under the indian act will continue
to happen and that's more liability and indemnity
based and so i i like that because rob's saying
you know you came from law and that's what you
looked at so i still gravitate to that naturally
because i still think there's more that we can
get out of the indian act in terms of what we
can do in terms of innovation for financial products
and services but where the puck's going right
now is lower cost of funds for indigenous parties
looking to invest and so if you're hearing that
and you're you know outside of the country or
you're just a non -indigenous entity you know
it really makes a lot of sense for you to get
a sense of how it is that you may want to partner
with indigenous groups because there's incentive
beyond the financial you know there's a reason
why every project of national interest our federal
government is saying we need indigenous participation
and a big part of that is because we need the
business acumen we need the stewardship we need
the extracurricular knowledge that indigenous
parties bring towards these transactions in their
operation And so when you see that and then you're
incentivized by the lower cost of funds and you're
understanding that this is contextually good
for the country because historically has not
been a good relationship between indigenous groups
and the crown. These are all reasons why there
should be a greater focus on, OK, how do we make
sure that we structure these transactions in
such a way that's respectful, that's based on
partnership and trust? but that are very sound
in terms of their structuring for the financing.
How is it that we take it back to the first principles
of the Indian Act and understand that we're doing
this in such a way where we're creating a good
loan that's securitized as opposed to just saying
we want to rely on loan guarantee or we want
to rely exclusively on concessionary capital.
So there's moving parts. I mean, there's a lot
of moving parts, but... The Canada Infrastructure
Bank also has capital that they can deploy, which
would represent lower cost of funds than what
you'd get if you were just to take it to market.
And so making sure that we look at all those
avenues to get the best possible transactions
for Indigenous parties and their partners has
become a real focal point in the last few years.
Very insightful. I'd like to come back to one
point because for our audience over here in the
UK and... other places around the world you talked
we're talking about we're in canada and you're
talking about and the indigenous people in the
crown and for a lot of people except the indigenous
people the crown in canada is something almost
a virtual well a virtual monarchy and in the
uk you rarely hear people talk about the crown
because they've it's not in the day -to -day
business of course the authority comes from there
and constitutional monarchy etc etc but Also
in this country, Canada, you're talking about
Indigenous Crown. Can you give just a little
background? Because reinforcing this story, I
think, helps our audience understand the foundation
and why we are where we are today. Sure, Mark.
So, I mean, it goes back to our constitution
here in Canada. So under Section 9124 of the
Constitution, I won't use the legal terms, but...
aboriginal people as it's described uh so first
nation 18 inuit are considered the responsibility
of of the federal state here in canada and so
what that means is the representatives of the
crown who are responsible for having passed legislation
like the indian act and other associate legislation
and decided a lot of the jurisprudence that's
impactful are the Crown's representatives. And
so we're talking about the federal government
predominantly, not the monarchy in its totality,
but we're talking about really the federal responsibility
within Canada to look at Indigenous parties and
provide parameters both legal and otherwise.
So there's the relationship there that's inherent.
The best example I can give to our audience for
anybody that wouldn't be initiated is that healthcare
in Canada is a provincial responsibility. The
healthcare for the indigenous populations is
federal. And so it's, again, it's this division
of powers where you've got, you know, the federal
government being responsible for things that
would otherwise be a provincial responsibility
here. And so, I mean, in some ways you could
take it down to even the municipal level, but,
you know, First Nations, Métis, Inuit, constitutionally
protected groups within the Constitution of Canada,
but are treated differently than other populations
within the country. So when we say the Crown,
I mean, without getting too expansive, Mark,
I mean, it's really the federal government here
in Canada and their relationship with Indigenous
groups and how that's evolving. I'm not going
to say whether I think it's getting better. I
think more efforts are being made. And I think
that's important. And I think that there's a
greater awareness and desire to have a better
relationship between Indigenous populations and
the Crown or the federal government here in Canada.
That's what I choose to believe. And that's why
I try to, like I said, setting a good example,
whether it's for my kids or whether it's for
others, I recognize that if I honor the people
that came before me, there were so many battles
that were fought with the federal government.
over rights, over responsibilities, over access
and control, that I'm in a very privileged position
right now to say, well, we can build on those
battles that have been fought and won by the
Indigenous populations so that we can have new
opportunities like the ones that we're talking
about today between Indigenous populations and
not just the Crown, but really the wider global
economy in terms of who wants to partner and
work with Indigenous peoples. Yes. And just again,
for our audience, Canada only acquired its constitution
in the 80s. And before that, everything in theory
was still under the privy council over here.
So that was a game changer. And that's when the
stimuli for all these changes that we've experienced
in our lifetimes, because it was in the constitution,
whole different ballgame, because it just didn't
work before. Yeah. And Mark, and just to take
it to another place too, like... We can talk
about the Constitution and constitutionally protected
rights under Section 35 of the Constitution for
Aboriginal People. Aboriginal is the term used
in the Constitution. That's why I keep saying
it. But the truth is that we need to look. A
lot of people still want to talk about different
standards, whether they be entrenched in the
Constitution and protected by the Constitution.
That has to be evident. There's a bigger focus
now on the duty to consult and free prior informed
consent, which will soon become. I would say,
more defined within Canadian law, more so than
it already is. That has to happen, and that is
happening. I think with the opportunities that
we're talking about, though, when we talk about
the greater economic participation of Indigenous
parties in Canada, it's by a lot of members of
the Indigenous population here that recognize,
hey, we've got a great opportunity, not just
from an economic standpoint, but a great opportunity
to create a new relationship. And so that's,
I mean, I'm very optimistic about this. I'm taking
a very optimistic tone and point of view. But
I look at it more as what can we build together,
right? And what is it that we're not going to
forget our past, we're not going to forget the
history, but how can we create a new relationship
so that future generations can know that, you
know what, we can change what's happened in the
past such that it doesn't repeat itself. And
that's really the approach I try to take. It's
one of the reasons where I didn't necessarily
think to work for the crown initially until i
had a great conversation with a law professor
at osgood hall professor named shinamai who said
in order to be a good lawyer you have to understand
all perspectives and if you just look at the
federal government as being oppressive towards
indigenous peoples you'll never understand how
things like the indian act or how the you know
the judiciary is going to decide cases it's beneficial
for you to understand that process understand
the perspective of the federal government. So,
I mean, I take that into account. It is something
I try to apply when we're talking about the transactions
that we'd be looking at recently. But it's also,
you know, it's a history to remember, and it's
certainly something that you can't ignore when
it comes to the Constitution and the historic
relationship between the two groups. John, you
mentioned you're excited, positive about current
developments. At least we get asked sometimes,
particularly from investors outside of Canada,
what has changed or has Canada really changed
over the last 10, 15 years? They may have got
excited about LNG, for example, 15 years ago
on projects that were proposed but never got
off the ground. So how would you answer that
kind of question? In terms of what projects they
get excited about, Rob? No, about what has Canada
changed? Is it really different? Why should we
look at Canada again differently? It's a great
question. Beyond what we've just talked about
in terms of this desire to have a greater or
better relationship, an improved relationship
with Indigenous parties. You can look at Bill
C -5 and the Bill Canada Act and what the federal
government's done. There is this desire to invest
in the country, to unite the country through
development. At least that's one interpretation
of it. So I would say what's changed, I mean,
that comes to mind very quickly, Rob. I'm also
seeing... uh you know how do we build out our
infrastructure within canada in such a way that
makes us stronger as a country makes us more
efficient as a country given how fast we are
but you know in this current climate also allows
us to diversify our trade partners and so you
know i go back to something mark said ready to
start is that in order to do that if you're going
to invest in new energy corridors in canada if
you're going to create new infrastructure in
Canada that didn't exist prior, if you're going
to have greater defense spending, which has been
a big focal point, if you're literally going
to create an act called Build Canada, you need
Indigenous participation. And so what's changed
here is the recognition that that's the truth.
You have to have Indigenous participation. It's
not a threat. It's an opportunity. The opportunity
is all the things that we've talked about before.
You get greater business acumen coming from the
Indigenous community because it is so restrictive
to run a business within a First Nation. It's
so difficult. It's difficult to run any business.
Try doing it with the restrictions that we've
talked about as they apply to the Indian Act.
When you see that and you see how the federal
government is saying, we're not just saying we
want greater Indigenous participation, we're
actually inducing it in some respects because...
We're going to amend legislation to allow for
concessionary capital to flow into these investment
vehicles that are Indigenous. We're going to
see the Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation,
which is doing a great job, stood up and have
$10 billion in contingent liabilities that they
can use to backstop loans that are going to help
build this country. And so when that starts to
happen, I would say that's a massive sea change.
It's not just this administration. I think it's
really concentrated in this federal administration.
But I would say that that's a big change that
we've seen over a relatively short period of
time. The Major Projects Office is another example
of that. You've got an office that's dedicated
to these projects of national interest. And so
what's changing here is that you have a designation
program that's saying, listen, if you're concerned
about licensing and permitting, whether you're
a foreign entity or you're domestic, you have
to know that we're creating a permit window.
This is going to happen faster. We are behind
this. We are designating projects for this purpose
to get things built faster. We're putting capital
into market to make sure that they're capitalized
enough to be commissioned and performing their
function and generating revenue. So I would say
that's kind of the real excitement. I think if
you look at even things that are insular to that,
I mean, we talked about me being in the office
of the CEO and I really enjoyed that experience.
When I left, somebody said, are you excited to
go and work in Indigenous and government advisory?
And I said, it's a dream come true. And they
kind of laughed. They said, it's a dream. You're
telling me it's a dream come true to go work
in investment banking? Is that really what you
saw yourself doing? I said, it's a dream come
true because I never thought that I'd see opportunities
of this magnitude and frequency involving our
relations. And so this is what gets me really
excited. This is something that I think is emerging.
I don't think it's brand new, but I do think
it's been kind of emerging over time. And Rob,
Mark, the fact that we're having this conversation
now and we're talking about things like foreign
investors' interest in Canada and working with
Indigenous populations. I mean, if you go back
five years, I don't know if we would have had
the same conversation. In fact, I know it wouldn't
have been the same conversation. I don't know
if we would have had the conversation at all.
So I would say what's new is certainly the Build
Canada Act has put a greater focus on development
within Canada. And some of the concessionary
capital and loan guarantee programs are certainly
putting an emphasis on making sure that there
is Indigenous participation. Yeah, I agree with
all of that wholeheartedly. That's why I'm back
in Canada after so many years abroad. It's just
too exciting not to come back and get right in
the thick of it. Exactly. Five years ago is almost
a century in the world we're living in because
a year and a half ago, the world changed. And
I think there's so many businesses with all the
discussions and the prime minister is out there
looking at opportunities for Canada, for new
markets, new partners to make things happen.
So it's a real exciting time to be in the role.
that you're at and i think scotia is one of the
first banks if not the first bank to set up uh
the type of unit that you're now responsible
for is that correct i i believe so mark i mean
i i i think the the bank has taken a good approach
to that question because we certainly talked
about it um in in talking to members of global
banking and markets and we discussed the opportunity
that this represents But I don't think you may
not have heard that there's a big focus on first
to market or, you know, only in market, because
I do think that this is something that is being
replicated and we'll certainly see more of as
years to come. And like I said, the collegiality
amongst the banks as competitors to say, hey,
if there's a good practice in the market, we
all need to be doing it. We all need to be competing.
We need to make sure that that beneficiary is,
you know, the indigenous community. I see it
as. I'm doing the best I can with this opportunity
because I believe in it. I respect the fact that
Scotiabank has said, we think there's a great
opportunity for you to help a lot of people here
and provide financial services to people and
financial advisory where the transactions are
a bit more new and nuanced. And I think the response
from the community at large has been, this is
great. This is a good thing. We need to understand
exactly how it is that... you and your group
fit into what we're trying to do here? And where
is it that we can really bring a lot of this
to fruition? And so it's been a great experience,
Mark, in having those discussions. I'm obviously
very optimistic. And when I say it's a dream
come true to be in this role, it's this idea
of it's a huge responsibility to make sure that
if we are looking at opportunities of this magnitude
and this frequency, that the Indigenous populations
are not just benefiting from the net. and resolve
right when all the debt service is done and the
proceeds are flowing that's one thing it's a
lot like what cedar leaf capital is doing how
can we help build capacity so that others you
know no different rob and i've looked up to the
work that you've done and clint davis has done
and and uh you know ron jameson how is it that
i can do my best to set a positive example and
be an exemplary model for somebody that may one
day want to be in a role like this and be far
you know more equipped and focused on on their
contribution in this role so that's you know
honor the people that came before you would make
things better for future generations i'm just
trying to set the best example and sincerely
hope that we see other competitors in the market
follow suit in terms of providing something similar
we're already seeing it but you know more formalized
so that you get that talent behind you that's
gonna you know be able to do this for years to
come uh john before You know, we finished, we
would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit
about your connections to the Canadian military
and some of the work you do in your spare time.
And I know you don't have a lot of spare time
with your family and your day job, but tell us
a little bit about that. Thanks, Rob. Very, very
proud to be a member of the Canadian Armed Forces.
I'm a captain with the Queen's York Rangers,
1st American Regiment. uh we're an armored unit
based out of toronto and aurora ontario we've
been doing it for i guess 16 plus years now um
we talk about decisions that we make in our career
and you know you guys said how did you move from
law to finance and something that's been constant
throughout has been my time as a reservist and
going through my military training It takes on
a bit of a different context now with what's
going on in the world. Certainly, I think everyone's
on much more high alert in the last few days
than they have been in a long time. And you look
at what Canada is saying when it comes to defense
spending and increasing that and looking at defense
as a sector that's going to include a lot more
things than just some of the more traditional
things that you'd associate with military service.
But for me, Rob, it's certainly... I'd say as
I get older, it's been an outlet. But when I
was a younger person doing it, I really established
a lot of character in me to try to be a better
leader. Stuff that I think I had a good foundation
for when I worked with Scott Thompson to see
a leader in action and understand how to model
myself better in those tough situations and how
to just be someone that can be reliable. I don't
know what else to say about it other than I love
it. I mean, there's no... feeling quite like
putting on the uniform to serve your country
and uh the people that are like -minded and do
the same i have a special place in my heart for
and they become some of the closest people in
my life so it's something that certainly informs
what i do but i also like what it represents
as well where i The relationship between the
Canadian Air Forces and Indigenous populations,
if you go back over the years, hasn't always
been a good relationship, much like with the
Crown and Indigenous populations in Canada. So
I want to be the change that I'd like to see
and really make sure that we've just got some
phenomenal, phenomenal soldiers who are Indigenous.
And that gives me so much pride and inspiration
and confidence. uh because you can see it in
the military it could be trying at times but
when people you know get through it and they've
got that confidence built and they're proud to
represent their community whether they're in
you know indigenous or not indigenous i think
the military has that power so i'm a very big
supporter i appreciate you asking about it just
because it is a big part of my life it's been
tougher to do since having two two beautiful
kids um But it gives me a lot of pride in who
I am and what I do. And I like the idea that
to the best of my ability, I try to represent
my community, like the Lower Cougar community
of Six Nations of the Grand River. I hope that
they feel some pride in the fact that one of
their members is a captain in the Canadian Air
Forces. I'm sure they do. And just to come back
from a historical perspective, Canada would not
exist as a country today if it was not for the
Indigenous. I agree, Mark. I encourage you to
look more at some of the work that's been done
to celebrate some of the Indigenous warriors
past and present. Jean Miso is an author. She
created a book where she highlights some Indigenous
soldiers. I was honored to be a part of that
project. But I agree, the fabric of Canada as
a country, there's so much of it. is tied to
Indigenous peoples and the cultures, histories,
traditions, and languages. And so military is
one part of it. I won't say anything else because
I know people have different opinions on it.
I want to be respectful of everybody listening.
But I take a great amount of pride in being in
the Canadian Armed Forces and being an Indigenous
person. And I'm just grateful for the opportunities
that's afforded me and for the structure that's
given me in my life. Yeah, well, as Mark mentioned,
and you, over the centuries, time and time again.
Governments, crowns have relied on Indigenous
support, military alliances, economic alliances,
usually to fend off some other influence. So
you're another fine example of Indigenous people
stepping up and defending. this country and our
values so thank you for your service in all its
forms you do an awful lot well it's it's an honor
to serve rob and mark thanks very much for thanks
for setting up this forum it's it's great to
talk to you both uh whether it's on the podcast
or whether it's offline uh i have a tremendous
respect for both of what you're doing and uh
like i said When it comes to removing vulnerability,
you need discussions like this and like the discussions
you've had with so many others to share some
knowledge, invite curiosity, and give people
a way that they can learn a bit more so that
should they want to have a new relationship with
Indigenous populations or should they want to
learn more about who Indigenous peoples are and
what we do, I just am grateful that this exists
so that people have that outlet. John, maybe
before we wrap up, why don't you talk about the
summit coming up from the perspective of Scotiabank
being the headline sponsor, what you're looking
for, why you think people should sign up to attend,
what they're going to benefit from, how this
fits into what Scotiabank's trying to achieve.
Sure, Mark. And thanks again for the partnership
between the Canada Indigenous Investment Summit
and Scotiabank. So really, my understanding,
my approach to why this is an important partnership
is because for all the things that we've talked
about, about where we're going to see greater
Indigenous participation and major progress in
Canada, the summit's really created an excellent
forum for discussion to talk about some of the
opportunities, but certainly some of the challenges
as well and how we work through them. I consider
it a solutions -based summit. And so whether
it's what you hear on stage through the panelists
or the conversations that you have when you're
grabbing a coffee, it's really focused on one
thing is how do we propel this forward in a way
that's respectful and from an Indigenous perspective?
And in the same time, how do we bring in people
that haven't always been at the table, right?
Like when we talk about foreign investment or
foreign joint ventures and partnerships with
Indigenous groups, I mean, I think the summit
really represents this. forward -edge thinking
in terms of we need to get Indigenous populations,
especially as these special purpose vehicles
come together, introduced to other partners that
they wouldn't otherwise think of. And so I find
it's a welcoming summit. It's not a pretentious
summit in the sense that you can come there with
very little knowledge and leave with a lot and
certainly have a pocket full of cards of people
to talk to to continue on the conversation. But
what I really liked about it is it's focused
on a delegation. You've put the right people
together to have the conversations. And those
conversations aren't a bunch of heads nodding.
There's different perspectives of how things
can be done and where the opportunities are.
So we're a very proud sponsor of the Canada Indigenous
Investment Summit. Very proud to be delegates
at the summit and looking forward to everyone
that's going to attend. And just as much looking
forward to the relationships that will be formed
and continued on. Keep doing what you're doing.
This is important. The work that you're doing
through drumbeats, the work that you're doing
through the summit, keep leading. This is a great
thing that you've done. I can't say that enough
between the summit and the other forums that
you've created for discussion. But now you're
seeing people start to come in and you're seeing
greater subscription. I would say thank you for
doing that and let us know how we can help manage
the growth. And do so in such a way that brings
more people in and makes sure that this is a
very inviting place, whether it's a summit or
drumbeats or anything else that you're looking
to do. So just thank you very much. Okay, well,
thank you in Scotiabank. Rob, is there anything?
Yeah, we would say the same. John, keep doing
what you're doing. I'm really enjoying watching
your career evolve and the impact that you're
having. So congratulations on the new role. Niall
Ngoa for being part of this podcast today, and
we'll look forward to seeing you in London shortly.
Looking forward to it. Rob, Mark, thank you both
very much. Okay, thank you very much for your
time today, John. Appreciate that. Thank you
to Jonathan Davey for sharing his insights with
us, and thank you for viewing and listening.
Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit
taking place on the 8th of April. Be sure to
share, subscribe, and leave a review on your
favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening
to Drum Beats. Until next time.