WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.730 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.089 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.949 --> 00:00:15.449 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Branton 00:00:15.449 --> 00:00:18.170 are joined today by Jonathan Davey, Managing 00:00:18.170 --> 00:00:20.010 Director of Indigenous and Government Advisory 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:23.489 at Scotiabank. In part one of our conversation 00:00:23.489 --> 00:00:26.750 with John, we heard how a decade inside Canada's 00:00:26.750 --> 00:00:29.329 legal system shaped his understanding of Indigenous 00:00:29.329 --> 00:00:33.070 finance, why Scotiabank made a mutual investment 00:00:33.070 --> 00:00:35.149 in building their Indigenous advisory practice 00:00:35.149 --> 00:00:37.869 from scratch, and what the creation of Cedar 00:00:37.869 --> 00:00:40.789 Leaf Capital signals about where Canada's capital 00:00:40.789 --> 00:00:44.490 markets are heading. In the second part, we get 00:00:44.490 --> 00:00:46.390 into the details that really matter most for 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:48.850 institutional investors evaluating opportunities 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:52.390 in Canada. John breaks down Section 89 of the 00:00:52.390 --> 00:00:55.350 Indian Act, the single biggest barrier to capital 00:00:55.350 --> 00:00:58.390 access for Indigenous communities, and explains 00:00:58.390 --> 00:01:00.990 some of the novel structures practitioners use 00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:04.689 to work around it. We then move into the developments 00:01:04.689 --> 00:01:07.430 that are generally changing the calculus for 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:10.650 international investors. Canada's $10 billion 00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:14.790 Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation. Forthcoming 00:01:14.790 --> 00:01:16.890 amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management 00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:20.109 Act. and what the Build Canada Act means for 00:01:20.109 --> 00:01:23.109 project timelines and Indigenous equity participation. 00:01:24.030 --> 00:01:26.769 If you haven't listened to part one yet, we'd 00:01:26.769 --> 00:01:29.109 encourage you to start there. But if you're coming 00:01:29.109 --> 00:01:31.709 straight to the numbers and the policy, this 00:01:31.709 --> 00:01:35.150 is the place to be. Maybe, John, we could talk 00:01:35.150 --> 00:01:37.030 a little bit about the Indian Act and some of 00:01:37.030 --> 00:01:39.790 the specifics, because you are an expert and 00:01:39.790 --> 00:01:43.629 you've mentioned some of the issues. We had Tracy 00:01:43.629 --> 00:01:50.659 Smith recently. from Kiwi Capital. And she set 00:01:50.659 --> 00:01:55.120 up that organization to try to fill a gap, a 00:01:55.120 --> 00:02:01.519 financing gap, particularly on reserve. And so 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:05.359 maybe explain some of the very basics about what 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:09.300 makes it difficult for banks and other lenders 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:13.060 to finance on reserve in particular. Sure. And 00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:16.469 especially, Rob, if you're If you're a foreign 00:02:16.469 --> 00:02:18.949 investor looking to work with Indigenous groups 00:02:18.949 --> 00:02:22.569 or you're looking at major projects, major project 00:02:22.569 --> 00:02:25.830 development in Canada, and you don't know where 00:02:25.830 --> 00:02:27.449 to start, that's the perspective I'm taking this 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:30.629 question from. I'd say Section 89 of the Indian 00:02:30.629 --> 00:02:33.830 Act is the best place to start because it's the 00:02:33.830 --> 00:02:37.270 worst place. Section 89 says you can't use assets 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:39.229 that are domiciled on reserve as collateral. 00:02:39.870 --> 00:02:42.870 So it undermines this. this ability to have you 00:02:42.870 --> 00:02:45.009 know equity and fixtures and chattels and the 00:02:45.009 --> 00:02:47.009 assets that's domiciled on reserve if you're 00:02:47.009 --> 00:02:50.310 a first nations person business or government 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:54.650 and so just if i was to stop there and not say 00:02:54.650 --> 00:02:57.590 anything else you'd think well that's so prohibitive 00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:01.210 of accessing capital why would i ever want to 00:03:01.210 --> 00:03:02.849 work with the first nation knowing that they 00:03:02.849 --> 00:03:05.530 have to operate under that constraint Yeah, when 00:03:05.530 --> 00:03:07.129 you think about what kind of a constraint that 00:03:07.129 --> 00:03:09.669 is, that is, you know, being able to leverage 00:03:09.669 --> 00:03:12.650 assets and your asset base, that is sort of fundamental 00:03:12.650 --> 00:03:19.289 to being able to grow and participate in any 00:03:19.289 --> 00:03:22.389 economy. Exactly. And even, you know, you mentioned 00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:26.580 Tracy being on the podcast before. Housing is 00:03:26.580 --> 00:03:29.280 where it's, I think, most acute. You can see 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.840 it where if you can't have a traditional mortgage 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.900 on reserve, how is it that you build equity on 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:39.659 an individual basis? But I would say that if 00:03:39.659 --> 00:03:41.259 you're looking at that, just understand that 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:43.819 when we talk about restrictions, first of all, 00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:45.300 in that case, we're just talking about First 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:47.219 Nations. We're not talking about Métis or Inuit. 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.780 But it's also, okay, if you can't access capital, 00:03:51.449 --> 00:03:54.090 What does that actually mean? How do you work 00:03:54.090 --> 00:03:57.909 around it or work through it? So we talked about 00:03:57.909 --> 00:04:01.210 why I enjoy working at Scotiabank so much. They 00:04:01.210 --> 00:04:03.669 were very supportive when I set up the First 00:04:03.669 --> 00:04:05.569 Nation Leasehold Financing Program. So leveraging 00:04:05.569 --> 00:04:09.090 leasehold interests under the Indian Act, First 00:04:09.090 --> 00:04:10.610 Nation Land Management Act, and self -governing 00:04:10.610 --> 00:04:13.009 agreements. So essentially to say that, hey, 00:04:13.050 --> 00:04:16.829 if Section 89 prevents you from taking an interest, 00:04:16.949 --> 00:04:19.629 a collateralized interest in a fixture like a 00:04:19.629 --> 00:04:23.550 home or... you know a commercial building the 00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:26.649 leasehold interest may allow you to take uh you 00:04:26.649 --> 00:04:29.490 know an interest in the lease itself the instrument 00:04:29.490 --> 00:04:32.269 that allows for use and access and so this is 00:04:32.269 --> 00:04:34.110 some of the innovation that we're looking at 00:04:34.110 --> 00:04:35.970 and we've been executing for a number of years 00:04:35.970 --> 00:04:38.810 now to say that just because you see an impediment 00:04:38.810 --> 00:04:41.370 like section 89 doesn't mean that there are ways 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:44.050 that we can work around it and rob some of the 00:04:44.050 --> 00:04:46.689 work that you've done uh and your firm has done 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:49.670 to create investment vehicles that would create 00:04:49.670 --> 00:04:53.089 separation from you know a first nation government 00:04:53.089 --> 00:04:56.410 to you know government business enterprise that 00:04:56.410 --> 00:04:58.589 might be owned by the nation but you're creating 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:00.930 these models of general partnerships and limited 00:05:00.930 --> 00:05:03.649 partnerships that then create on -source revenue 00:05:03.649 --> 00:05:06.209 what's really powerful about that that people 00:05:06.209 --> 00:05:08.110 wouldn't realize that first blush if they're 00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:10.389 new to working with indigenous groups or looking 00:05:10.389 --> 00:05:13.269 to space is the tax optimization that's allowed 00:05:13.269 --> 00:05:16.459 under legislation like the Indian Act to allow 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.379 those entities to actually create a greater benefit 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:22.379 and a greater yield on their return because they 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:25.040 are not subject to the same tax laws as a non 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.300 -indigenous business. And so, you know, it's 00:05:28.300 --> 00:05:31.839 one of these expansive questions, Rob, as you 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:33.540 and Mark can appreciate. It's kind of like, what 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:35.740 is math? And you try to start to explain it. 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:39.439 Well, when we talk about restrictions, I think... 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:42.259 the vast majority of the time it reverts back 00:05:42.259 --> 00:05:45.540 to section 89 and not being able to have a collateralized 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:47.920 value of an asset on reserve and then the depreciation 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.620 of that asset over time so from the financial 00:05:50.620 --> 00:05:53.500 point of view it makes it very detrimental but 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:55.360 what's great and it doesn't act as a complete 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:57.180 counterbalance but it is something to consider 00:05:57.180 --> 00:05:59.800 is just how do you set up the different investment 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.240 structures whether it's uh you know for the purpose 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.500 of an spv or it's just your your economic development 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:07.800 corporation in the form of a limited partnership 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:11.600 Why is it that those structures exist? How are 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:14.100 they optimized? How do they reduce reliance on 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.220 federal oversight? How is it that you can have 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:22.620 greater control over an entity or over a business 00:06:22.620 --> 00:06:24.839 enterprise as a First Nation or First Nation 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.560 government business enterprise where you're actually 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:29.879 able to invest in a different way that's more 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.980 tax optimized and not subject to the same laws 00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:35.379 and regulations of the Income Tax Act or Indian 00:06:35.379 --> 00:06:37.920 Act that a non -Indigenous group. would be subject 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.980 to. So I would say that if you're new to this 00:06:40.980 --> 00:06:42.899 and you're looking at the Indian Act, just know 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:45.860 that there's a big restriction at theirs or certainly 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:48.920 others. But there's ways, like I was saying before, 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:51.180 when it comes to the Indian Act, there's places 00:06:51.180 --> 00:06:54.000 of vulnerability and there's places of exploitation 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.819 where you can actually exploit that use in a 00:06:56.819 --> 00:06:59.540 positive way. Like you can actually work under 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:01.639 the Indian Act in a way that would be beneficial 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.199 to you. that I would certainly encourage anybody 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:07.339 that's interested in knowing to reach out to 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:09.240 us to talk about because that's kind of where 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:13.300 we operate. So I also think if you look at financial 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:16.139 markets worldwide, how have they grown so dramatically 00:07:16.139 --> 00:07:18.199 over the past half century? It's because this 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.860 focus on innovation and where there's a will 00:07:21.860 --> 00:07:26.120 the way and how do you make it work? And I think 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:28.220 you agree with that. That's basically what you're 00:07:28.220 --> 00:07:31.079 saying, the opportunity for innovation to unleash 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:35.769 these assets. which there's still first mover 00:07:35.769 --> 00:07:38.490 advantages because we're still figuring out how 00:07:38.490 --> 00:07:41.370 best to access that and present those opportunities 00:07:41.370 --> 00:07:45.410 and find solutions that give this underrepresented 00:07:45.410 --> 00:07:49.310 communities, the First Nations, opportunities 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:51.389 to succeed. And that's where some of the growth 00:07:51.389 --> 00:07:54.149 is coming from. Sure, Mark. There's definitely 00:07:54.149 --> 00:07:56.089 innovation, and I think that's going to continue. 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:59.050 I think what's new that's become a greater focal 00:07:59.050 --> 00:08:01.829 point is the concessionary capital that's coming 00:08:01.829 --> 00:08:04.250 into the market for Indigenous groups, as well 00:08:04.250 --> 00:08:06.750 as loan guarantees that will just lower risk 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:12.069 weights on assets, on loans. Explain a little 00:08:12.069 --> 00:08:14.709 bit about what you mean by concessionary capital. 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:17.750 Sure. Sure. So it's really, it's low cost of 00:08:17.750 --> 00:08:21.290 funds for Indigenous parties, particularly focused 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:24.410 on Indigenous parties making an equity investment. 00:08:24.709 --> 00:08:27.930 And so, you know, there's a couple of sources, 00:08:28.029 --> 00:08:30.009 but the biggest one is the First Nation Finance 00:08:30.009 --> 00:08:33.070 Authority. We're having this conversation now 00:08:33.070 --> 00:08:37.090 in March of 2026. We're going to see the First 00:08:37.090 --> 00:08:40.009 Nation Financial Management Act amended very 00:08:40.009 --> 00:08:43.110 soon to allow for the First Nation Finance Authority. 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:45.759 to provide concessionary capital to Indigenous 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:47.940 special purpose vehicles. So right now they can 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:52.100 only lend to Indigenous groups. And so what does 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:54.700 that all mean if this is new information? Really 00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:57.200 what it nets out to is you have lower cost of 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:59.899 capital for Indigenous groups that are looking 00:08:59.899 --> 00:09:03.379 to make an equity investment in some of these 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:07.039 bigger projects. Coupled with that, you have 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.500 loan guarantee programs federally. There's a 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:13.750 $10 billion loan guarantee program. And then 00:09:13.750 --> 00:09:16.090 there's two programs that are worth $3 billion, 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:20.190 one in Alberta, another in Ontario, and then 00:09:20.190 --> 00:09:24.809 BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are all standing 00:09:24.809 --> 00:09:27.230 up or have stood up similar programs of a bit 00:09:27.230 --> 00:09:29.629 smaller scale. And essentially, when we talk 00:09:29.629 --> 00:09:32.789 about loan guarantees, we're talking about contingent 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:34.970 liability that's dedicated to just backstopping 00:09:34.970 --> 00:09:37.129 loans. So if you're a financial institution like 00:09:37.129 --> 00:09:40.309 Scotiabank, the risk weights on the assets that 00:09:40.309 --> 00:09:41.909 you'd be deploying are just brought to zero. 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:44.620 or they're brought down. So the cost of capital 00:09:44.620 --> 00:09:47.759 becomes lower again. And so if you're looking 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.240 at investments that are happening, there's certainly 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.799 a great incentive for Indigenous parties to come 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.000 together, especially after this amendment to 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.220 the First Nation Fiscal Management Act, for the 00:09:58.220 --> 00:10:01.360 purpose of making an equity investment. So when 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:03.340 you do that, you get lower cost of funds, or 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:05.460 you can get, I should say, you won't necessarily 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:08.240 get, but you can get. lower cost of capital that 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.340 can then be put towards uh an equity purchase 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:14.659 or an asset purchase and where that becomes very 00:10:14.659 --> 00:10:16.620 appealing for anybody that's outside the community 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:18.679 is you can only imagine what it's like if you 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.100 were to you know joint venture with that indigenous 00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:23.460 special purpose vehicle or look to have an indigenous 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:26.799 partner this is where i think a lot of people 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.159 are focused mark the innovation that we're talking 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:30.860 about before under the indian act will continue 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:33.659 to happen and that's more liability and indemnity 00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:37.720 based and so i i like that because rob's saying 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:39.539 you know you came from law and that's what you 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:42.299 looked at so i still gravitate to that naturally 00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:44.159 because i still think there's more that we can 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:45.919 get out of the indian act in terms of what we 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.559 can do in terms of innovation for financial products 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.159 and services but where the puck's going right 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.039 now is lower cost of funds for indigenous parties 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.919 looking to invest and so if you're hearing that 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.679 and you're you know outside of the country or 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.820 you're just a non -indigenous entity you know 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:05.690 it really makes a lot of sense for you to get 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:07.870 a sense of how it is that you may want to partner 00:11:07.870 --> 00:11:10.590 with indigenous groups because there's incentive 00:11:10.590 --> 00:11:13.049 beyond the financial you know there's a reason 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:15.950 why every project of national interest our federal 00:11:15.950 --> 00:11:18.309 government is saying we need indigenous participation 00:11:18.309 --> 00:11:22.210 and a big part of that is because we need the 00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:25.950 business acumen we need the stewardship we need 00:11:25.950 --> 00:11:27.730 the extracurricular knowledge that indigenous 00:11:27.730 --> 00:11:30.330 parties bring towards these transactions in their 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:33.500 operation And so when you see that and then you're 00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:36.639 incentivized by the lower cost of funds and you're 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.899 understanding that this is contextually good 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:41.960 for the country because historically has not 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.480 been a good relationship between indigenous groups 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:48.820 and the crown. These are all reasons why there 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:51.460 should be a greater focus on, OK, how do we make 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:53.279 sure that we structure these transactions in 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.019 such a way that's respectful, that's based on 00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.919 partnership and trust? but that are very sound 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:00.320 in terms of their structuring for the financing. 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:02.659 How is it that we take it back to the first principles 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:04.299 of the Indian Act and understand that we're doing 00:12:04.299 --> 00:12:06.659 this in such a way where we're creating a good 00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:09.059 loan that's securitized as opposed to just saying 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:12.419 we want to rely on loan guarantee or we want 00:12:12.419 --> 00:12:14.379 to rely exclusively on concessionary capital. 00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:17.179 So there's moving parts. I mean, there's a lot 00:12:17.179 --> 00:12:19.919 of moving parts, but... The Canada Infrastructure 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.600 Bank also has capital that they can deploy, which 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.480 would represent lower cost of funds than what 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.379 you'd get if you were just to take it to market. 00:12:29.059 --> 00:12:31.860 And so making sure that we look at all those 00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:34.580 avenues to get the best possible transactions 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:37.080 for Indigenous parties and their partners has 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:40.059 become a real focal point in the last few years. 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.039 Very insightful. I'd like to come back to one 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.139 point because for our audience over here in the 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:49.429 UK and... other places around the world you talked 00:12:49.429 --> 00:12:52.110 we're talking about we're in canada and you're 00:12:52.110 --> 00:12:53.970 talking about and the indigenous people in the 00:12:53.970 --> 00:12:57.409 crown and for a lot of people except the indigenous 00:12:57.409 --> 00:13:01.049 people the crown in canada is something almost 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:04.669 a virtual well a virtual monarchy and in the 00:13:04.669 --> 00:13:07.350 uk you rarely hear people talk about the crown 00:13:07.350 --> 00:13:11.389 because they've it's not in the day -to -day 00:13:11.389 --> 00:13:13.929 business of course the authority comes from there 00:13:13.929 --> 00:13:17.639 and constitutional monarchy etc etc but Also 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:20.639 in this country, Canada, you're talking about 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.580 Indigenous Crown. Can you give just a little 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:25.080 background? Because reinforcing this story, I 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:29.100 think, helps our audience understand the foundation 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:33.259 and why we are where we are today. Sure, Mark. 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.440 So, I mean, it goes back to our constitution 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.559 here in Canada. So under Section 9124 of the 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:42.720 Constitution, I won't use the legal terms, but... 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.539 aboriginal people as it's described uh so first 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:49.659 nation 18 inuit are considered the responsibility 00:13:49.659 --> 00:13:53.659 of of the federal state here in canada and so 00:13:53.659 --> 00:13:55.659 what that means is the representatives of the 00:13:55.659 --> 00:13:59.820 crown who are responsible for having passed legislation 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:02.529 like the indian act and other associate legislation 00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:04.830 and decided a lot of the jurisprudence that's 00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:07.649 impactful are the Crown's representatives. And 00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:09.250 so we're talking about the federal government 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:13.690 predominantly, not the monarchy in its totality, 00:14:13.789 --> 00:14:16.730 but we're talking about really the federal responsibility 00:14:16.730 --> 00:14:22.929 within Canada to look at Indigenous parties and 00:14:22.929 --> 00:14:26.769 provide parameters both legal and otherwise. 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:29.470 So there's the relationship there that's inherent. 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.240 The best example I can give to our audience for 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.679 anybody that wouldn't be initiated is that healthcare 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.159 in Canada is a provincial responsibility. The 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.879 healthcare for the indigenous populations is 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:44.659 federal. And so it's, again, it's this division 00:14:44.659 --> 00:14:47.100 of powers where you've got, you know, the federal 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.259 government being responsible for things that 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.240 would otherwise be a provincial responsibility 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:55.500 here. And so, I mean, in some ways you could 00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:57.440 take it down to even the municipal level, but, 00:14:57.460 --> 00:15:02.490 you know, First Nations, Métis, Inuit, constitutionally 00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:05.090 protected groups within the Constitution of Canada, 00:15:05.269 --> 00:15:09.730 but are treated differently than other populations 00:15:09.730 --> 00:15:12.090 within the country. So when we say the Crown, 00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:14.190 I mean, without getting too expansive, Mark, 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:17.909 I mean, it's really the federal government here 00:15:17.909 --> 00:15:19.990 in Canada and their relationship with Indigenous 00:15:19.990 --> 00:15:24.009 groups and how that's evolving. I'm not going 00:15:24.009 --> 00:15:27.990 to say whether I think it's getting better. I 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:30.230 think more efforts are being made. And I think 00:15:30.230 --> 00:15:32.710 that's important. And I think that there's a 00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:37.649 greater awareness and desire to have a better 00:15:37.649 --> 00:15:41.629 relationship between Indigenous populations and 00:15:41.629 --> 00:15:43.429 the Crown or the federal government here in Canada. 00:15:43.509 --> 00:15:44.809 That's what I choose to believe. And that's why 00:15:44.809 --> 00:15:46.950 I try to, like I said, setting a good example, 00:15:47.049 --> 00:15:48.529 whether it's for my kids or whether it's for 00:15:48.529 --> 00:15:51.330 others, I recognize that if I honor the people 00:15:51.330 --> 00:15:52.970 that came before me, there were so many battles 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:55.029 that were fought with the federal government. 00:15:55.929 --> 00:16:00.070 over rights, over responsibilities, over access 00:16:00.070 --> 00:16:03.289 and control, that I'm in a very privileged position 00:16:03.289 --> 00:16:06.289 right now to say, well, we can build on those 00:16:06.289 --> 00:16:07.909 battles that have been fought and won by the 00:16:07.909 --> 00:16:10.409 Indigenous populations so that we can have new 00:16:10.409 --> 00:16:11.870 opportunities like the ones that we're talking 00:16:11.870 --> 00:16:14.509 about today between Indigenous populations and 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:18.789 not just the Crown, but really the wider global 00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:21.029 economy in terms of who wants to partner and 00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:24.080 work with Indigenous peoples. Yes. And just again, 00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:26.940 for our audience, Canada only acquired its constitution 00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:30.799 in the 80s. And before that, everything in theory 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.559 was still under the privy council over here. 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:35.659 So that was a game changer. And that's when the 00:16:35.659 --> 00:16:40.080 stimuli for all these changes that we've experienced 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.720 in our lifetimes, because it was in the constitution, 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:46.259 whole different ballgame, because it just didn't 00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:48.179 work before. Yeah. And Mark, and just to take 00:16:48.179 --> 00:16:50.960 it to another place too, like... We can talk 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:52.919 about the Constitution and constitutionally protected 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.240 rights under Section 35 of the Constitution for 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.299 Aboriginal People. Aboriginal is the term used 00:16:57.299 --> 00:16:58.740 in the Constitution. That's why I keep saying 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:02.340 it. But the truth is that we need to look. A 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:04.079 lot of people still want to talk about different 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:05.880 standards, whether they be entrenched in the 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:07.660 Constitution and protected by the Constitution. 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.880 That has to be evident. There's a bigger focus 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.680 now on the duty to consult and free prior informed 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.150 consent, which will soon become. I would say, 00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:21.930 more defined within Canadian law, more so than 00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:25.329 it already is. That has to happen, and that is 00:17:25.329 --> 00:17:27.509 happening. I think with the opportunities that 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:29.470 we're talking about, though, when we talk about 00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:33.029 the greater economic participation of Indigenous 00:17:33.029 --> 00:17:36.509 parties in Canada, it's by a lot of members of 00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:40.029 the Indigenous population here that recognize, 00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:42.869 hey, we've got a great opportunity, not just 00:17:42.869 --> 00:17:44.750 from an economic standpoint, but a great opportunity 00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:47.910 to create a new relationship. And so that's, 00:17:47.910 --> 00:17:49.910 I mean, I'm very optimistic about this. I'm taking 00:17:49.910 --> 00:17:52.450 a very optimistic tone and point of view. But 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:54.190 I look at it more as what can we build together, 00:17:54.289 --> 00:17:56.950 right? And what is it that we're not going to 00:17:56.950 --> 00:17:58.289 forget our past, we're not going to forget the 00:17:58.289 --> 00:18:00.710 history, but how can we create a new relationship 00:18:00.710 --> 00:18:02.990 so that future generations can know that, you 00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:05.329 know what, we can change what's happened in the 00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:08.990 past such that it doesn't repeat itself. And 00:18:08.990 --> 00:18:11.769 that's really the approach I try to take. It's 00:18:11.769 --> 00:18:14.410 one of the reasons where I didn't necessarily 00:18:14.410 --> 00:18:17.730 think to work for the crown initially until i 00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:19.349 had a great conversation with a law professor 00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:23.549 at osgood hall professor named shinamai who said 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:25.250 in order to be a good lawyer you have to understand 00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:27.529 all perspectives and if you just look at the 00:18:27.529 --> 00:18:29.529 federal government as being oppressive towards 00:18:29.529 --> 00:18:32.250 indigenous peoples you'll never understand how 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.990 things like the indian act or how the you know 00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:37.769 the judiciary is going to decide cases it's beneficial 00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:41.309 for you to understand that process understand 00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:44.960 the perspective of the federal government. So, 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.440 I mean, I take that into account. It is something 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.099 I try to apply when we're talking about the transactions 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:52.759 that we'd be looking at recently. But it's also, 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.819 you know, it's a history to remember, and it's 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:57.940 certainly something that you can't ignore when 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:00.279 it comes to the Constitution and the historic 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:04.279 relationship between the two groups. John, you 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.460 mentioned you're excited, positive about current 00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:10.640 developments. At least we get asked sometimes, 00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:14.180 particularly from investors outside of Canada, 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:18.240 what has changed or has Canada really changed 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:23.539 over the last 10, 15 years? They may have got 00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:26.980 excited about LNG, for example, 15 years ago 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:31.099 on projects that were proposed but never got 00:19:31.099 --> 00:19:36.039 off the ground. So how would you answer that 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.539 kind of question? In terms of what projects they 00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.380 get excited about, Rob? No, about what has Canada 00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.980 changed? Is it really different? Why should we 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:51.400 look at Canada again differently? It's a great 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.240 question. Beyond what we've just talked about 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.519 in terms of this desire to have a greater or 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.400 better relationship, an improved relationship 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:04.279 with Indigenous parties. You can look at Bill 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.480 C -5 and the Bill Canada Act and what the federal 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.819 government's done. There is this desire to invest 00:20:09.819 --> 00:20:12.680 in the country, to unite the country through 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.960 development. At least that's one interpretation 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.640 of it. So I would say what's changed, I mean, 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:22.579 that comes to mind very quickly, Rob. I'm also 00:20:22.579 --> 00:20:25.960 seeing... uh you know how do we build out our 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.599 infrastructure within canada in such a way that 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:31.019 makes us stronger as a country makes us more 00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:33.059 efficient as a country given how fast we are 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:36.380 but you know in this current climate also allows 00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:39.920 us to diversify our trade partners and so you 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:41.759 know i go back to something mark said ready to 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:43.420 start is that in order to do that if you're going 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:47.140 to invest in new energy corridors in canada if 00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:49.400 you're going to create new infrastructure in 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.220 Canada that didn't exist prior, if you're going 00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:53.500 to have greater defense spending, which has been 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.599 a big focal point, if you're literally going 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.119 to create an act called Build Canada, you need 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.700 Indigenous participation. And so what's changed 00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:04.819 here is the recognition that that's the truth. 00:21:05.019 --> 00:21:07.500 You have to have Indigenous participation. It's 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:11.549 not a threat. It's an opportunity. The opportunity 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:13.430 is all the things that we've talked about before. 00:21:13.509 --> 00:21:15.410 You get greater business acumen coming from the 00:21:15.410 --> 00:21:17.089 Indigenous community because it is so restrictive 00:21:17.089 --> 00:21:19.750 to run a business within a First Nation. It's 00:21:19.750 --> 00:21:22.109 so difficult. It's difficult to run any business. 00:21:22.369 --> 00:21:24.069 Try doing it with the restrictions that we've 00:21:24.069 --> 00:21:26.589 talked about as they apply to the Indian Act. 00:21:27.750 --> 00:21:30.809 When you see that and you see how the federal 00:21:30.809 --> 00:21:33.470 government is saying, we're not just saying we 00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:35.450 want greater Indigenous participation, we're 00:21:35.450 --> 00:21:38.450 actually inducing it in some respects because... 00:21:39.069 --> 00:21:41.269 We're going to amend legislation to allow for 00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:44.329 concessionary capital to flow into these investment 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:46.130 vehicles that are Indigenous. We're going to 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:48.329 see the Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation, 00:21:48.750 --> 00:21:51.450 which is doing a great job, stood up and have 00:21:51.450 --> 00:21:53.430 $10 billion in contingent liabilities that they 00:21:53.430 --> 00:21:55.289 can use to backstop loans that are going to help 00:21:55.289 --> 00:21:58.089 build this country. And so when that starts to 00:21:58.089 --> 00:22:00.470 happen, I would say that's a massive sea change. 00:22:00.549 --> 00:22:02.609 It's not just this administration. I think it's 00:22:02.609 --> 00:22:04.549 really concentrated in this federal administration. 00:22:05.549 --> 00:22:08.069 But I would say that that's a big change that 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:11.029 we've seen over a relatively short period of 00:22:11.029 --> 00:22:14.549 time. The Major Projects Office is another example 00:22:14.549 --> 00:22:16.829 of that. You've got an office that's dedicated 00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:21.009 to these projects of national interest. And so 00:22:21.009 --> 00:22:23.130 what's changing here is that you have a designation 00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.289 program that's saying, listen, if you're concerned 00:22:25.289 --> 00:22:28.150 about licensing and permitting, whether you're 00:22:28.150 --> 00:22:30.470 a foreign entity or you're domestic, you have 00:22:30.470 --> 00:22:34.049 to know that we're creating a permit window. 00:22:34.529 --> 00:22:36.650 This is going to happen faster. We are behind 00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:38.670 this. We are designating projects for this purpose 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:41.509 to get things built faster. We're putting capital 00:22:41.509 --> 00:22:43.049 into market to make sure that they're capitalized 00:22:43.049 --> 00:22:47.690 enough to be commissioned and performing their 00:22:47.690 --> 00:22:50.349 function and generating revenue. So I would say 00:22:50.349 --> 00:22:53.130 that's kind of the real excitement. I think if 00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:56.329 you look at even things that are insular to that, 00:22:56.490 --> 00:22:59.190 I mean, we talked about me being in the office 00:22:59.190 --> 00:23:01.490 of the CEO and I really enjoyed that experience. 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.380 When I left, somebody said, are you excited to 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:06.960 go and work in Indigenous and government advisory? 00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:09.680 And I said, it's a dream come true. And they 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.279 kind of laughed. They said, it's a dream. You're 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.900 telling me it's a dream come true to go work 00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:16.299 in investment banking? Is that really what you 00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:18.880 saw yourself doing? I said, it's a dream come 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.579 true because I never thought that I'd see opportunities 00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:27.759 of this magnitude and frequency involving our 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.339 relations. And so this is what gets me really 00:23:31.339 --> 00:23:34.220 excited. This is something that I think is emerging. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.460 I don't think it's brand new, but I do think 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:39.700 it's been kind of emerging over time. And Rob, 00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:41.759 Mark, the fact that we're having this conversation 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.460 now and we're talking about things like foreign 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.640 investors' interest in Canada and working with 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.339 Indigenous populations. I mean, if you go back 00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:52.660 five years, I don't know if we would have had 00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:54.400 the same conversation. In fact, I know it wouldn't 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.940 have been the same conversation. I don't know 00:23:55.940 --> 00:23:57.299 if we would have had the conversation at all. 00:23:58.089 --> 00:24:01.430 So I would say what's new is certainly the Build 00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:04.450 Canada Act has put a greater focus on development 00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:07.269 within Canada. And some of the concessionary 00:24:07.269 --> 00:24:09.230 capital and loan guarantee programs are certainly 00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:11.309 putting an emphasis on making sure that there 00:24:11.309 --> 00:24:14.170 is Indigenous participation. Yeah, I agree with 00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:16.390 all of that wholeheartedly. That's why I'm back 00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:20.410 in Canada after so many years abroad. It's just 00:24:20.410 --> 00:24:24.549 too exciting not to come back and get right in 00:24:24.549 --> 00:24:28.549 the thick of it. Exactly. Five years ago is almost 00:24:28.549 --> 00:24:30.589 a century in the world we're living in because 00:24:30.589 --> 00:24:33.710 a year and a half ago, the world changed. And 00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:37.230 I think there's so many businesses with all the 00:24:37.230 --> 00:24:40.490 discussions and the prime minister is out there 00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:44.910 looking at opportunities for Canada, for new 00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:48.150 markets, new partners to make things happen. 00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:52.950 So it's a real exciting time to be in the role. 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.839 that you're at and i think scotia is one of the 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.339 first banks if not the first bank to set up uh 00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.839 the type of unit that you're now responsible 00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.880 for is that correct i i believe so mark i mean 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.119 i i i think the the bank has taken a good approach 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:12.559 to that question because we certainly talked 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.420 about it um in in talking to members of global 00:25:16.420 --> 00:25:18.880 banking and markets and we discussed the opportunity 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.680 that this represents But I don't think you may 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.599 not have heard that there's a big focus on first 00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.559 to market or, you know, only in market, because 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.680 I do think that this is something that is being 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.200 replicated and we'll certainly see more of as 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.680 years to come. And like I said, the collegiality 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.579 amongst the banks as competitors to say, hey, 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.099 if there's a good practice in the market, we 00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:43.900 all need to be doing it. We all need to be competing. 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.500 We need to make sure that that beneficiary is, 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:49.619 you know, the indigenous community. I see it 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:53.079 as. I'm doing the best I can with this opportunity 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:57.180 because I believe in it. I respect the fact that 00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:59.759 Scotiabank has said, we think there's a great 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.740 opportunity for you to help a lot of people here 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.480 and provide financial services to people and 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.859 financial advisory where the transactions are 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.519 a bit more new and nuanced. And I think the response 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:13.859 from the community at large has been, this is 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:17.500 great. This is a good thing. We need to understand 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:21.319 exactly how it is that... you and your group 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:23.880 fit into what we're trying to do here? And where 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.200 is it that we can really bring a lot of this 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.539 to fruition? And so it's been a great experience, 00:26:29.539 --> 00:26:32.579 Mark, in having those discussions. I'm obviously 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:34.660 very optimistic. And when I say it's a dream 00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:37.259 come true to be in this role, it's this idea 00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:39.579 of it's a huge responsibility to make sure that 00:26:39.579 --> 00:26:43.099 if we are looking at opportunities of this magnitude 00:26:43.099 --> 00:26:46.059 and this frequency, that the Indigenous populations 00:26:46.059 --> 00:26:48.920 are not just benefiting from the net. and resolve 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:50.940 right when all the debt service is done and the 00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:54.460 proceeds are flowing that's one thing it's a 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:56.859 lot like what cedar leaf capital is doing how 00:26:56.859 --> 00:27:00.940 can we help build capacity so that others you 00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:02.920 know no different rob and i've looked up to the 00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:04.960 work that you've done and clint davis has done 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.740 and and uh you know ron jameson how is it that 00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:11.799 i can do my best to set a positive example and 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.059 be an exemplary model for somebody that may one 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:16.500 day want to be in a role like this and be far 00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:20.599 you know more equipped and focused on on their 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:23.839 contribution in this role so that's you know 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:25.460 honor the people that came before you would make 00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.799 things better for future generations i'm just 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:30.160 trying to set the best example and sincerely 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:32.779 hope that we see other competitors in the market 00:27:32.779 --> 00:27:35.019 follow suit in terms of providing something similar 00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:38.019 we're already seeing it but you know more formalized 00:27:38.019 --> 00:27:40.259 so that you get that talent behind you that's 00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:42.900 gonna you know be able to do this for years to 00:27:42.900 --> 00:27:47.470 come uh john before You know, we finished, we 00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:49.329 would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit 00:27:49.329 --> 00:27:52.029 about your connections to the Canadian military 00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:56.569 and some of the work you do in your spare time. 00:27:56.910 --> 00:27:59.369 And I know you don't have a lot of spare time 00:27:59.369 --> 00:28:04.910 with your family and your day job, but tell us 00:28:04.910 --> 00:28:07.849 a little bit about that. Thanks, Rob. Very, very 00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:10.990 proud to be a member of the Canadian Armed Forces. 00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:13.130 I'm a captain with the Queen's York Rangers, 00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:16.529 1st American Regiment. uh we're an armored unit 00:28:16.529 --> 00:28:19.789 based out of toronto and aurora ontario we've 00:28:19.789 --> 00:28:24.490 been doing it for i guess 16 plus years now um 00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:27.950 we talk about decisions that we make in our career 00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:32.069 and you know you guys said how did you move from 00:28:32.069 --> 00:28:35.730 law to finance and something that's been constant 00:28:35.730 --> 00:28:38.650 throughout has been my time as a reservist and 00:28:38.650 --> 00:28:41.250 going through my military training It takes on 00:28:41.250 --> 00:28:43.329 a bit of a different context now with what's 00:28:43.329 --> 00:28:46.210 going on in the world. Certainly, I think everyone's 00:28:46.210 --> 00:28:49.170 on much more high alert in the last few days 00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:52.089 than they have been in a long time. And you look 00:28:52.089 --> 00:28:55.509 at what Canada is saying when it comes to defense 00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:57.829 spending and increasing that and looking at defense 00:28:57.829 --> 00:28:59.750 as a sector that's going to include a lot more 00:28:59.750 --> 00:29:03.289 things than just some of the more traditional 00:29:03.289 --> 00:29:05.369 things that you'd associate with military service. 00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:10.619 But for me, Rob, it's certainly... I'd say as 00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:12.880 I get older, it's been an outlet. But when I 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.460 was a younger person doing it, I really established 00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:19.160 a lot of character in me to try to be a better 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.180 leader. Stuff that I think I had a good foundation 00:29:22.180 --> 00:29:24.220 for when I worked with Scott Thompson to see 00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:26.200 a leader in action and understand how to model 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.259 myself better in those tough situations and how 00:29:29.259 --> 00:29:34.740 to just be someone that can be reliable. I don't 00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:36.480 know what else to say about it other than I love 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.079 it. I mean, there's no... feeling quite like 00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:40.940 putting on the uniform to serve your country 00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:44.960 and uh the people that are like -minded and do 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.720 the same i have a special place in my heart for 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.940 and they become some of the closest people in 00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:52.980 my life so it's something that certainly informs 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.359 what i do but i also like what it represents 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.079 as well where i The relationship between the 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.140 Canadian Air Forces and Indigenous populations, 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:04.660 if you go back over the years, hasn't always 00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:06.859 been a good relationship, much like with the 00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:09.660 Crown and Indigenous populations in Canada. So 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:11.619 I want to be the change that I'd like to see 00:30:11.619 --> 00:30:14.779 and really make sure that we've just got some 00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:18.359 phenomenal, phenomenal soldiers who are Indigenous. 00:30:19.099 --> 00:30:24.059 And that gives me so much pride and inspiration 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:27.579 and confidence. uh because you can see it in 00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:29.599 the military it could be trying at times but 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.299 when people you know get through it and they've 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:34.740 got that confidence built and they're proud to 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:36.319 represent their community whether they're in 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.099 you know indigenous or not indigenous i think 00:30:39.099 --> 00:30:41.599 the military has that power so i'm a very big 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.720 supporter i appreciate you asking about it just 00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:46.579 because it is a big part of my life it's been 00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:49.240 tougher to do since having two two beautiful 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.650 kids um But it gives me a lot of pride in who 00:30:52.650 --> 00:30:54.930 I am and what I do. And I like the idea that 00:30:54.930 --> 00:30:57.130 to the best of my ability, I try to represent 00:30:57.130 --> 00:31:00.450 my community, like the Lower Cougar community 00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:03.089 of Six Nations of the Grand River. I hope that 00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:06.450 they feel some pride in the fact that one of 00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:08.589 their members is a captain in the Canadian Air 00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:12.849 Forces. I'm sure they do. And just to come back 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:16.869 from a historical perspective, Canada would not 00:31:16.869 --> 00:31:19.450 exist as a country today if it was not for the 00:31:19.450 --> 00:31:24.420 Indigenous. I agree, Mark. I encourage you to 00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:27.140 look more at some of the work that's been done 00:31:27.140 --> 00:31:29.319 to celebrate some of the Indigenous warriors 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:31.619 past and present. Jean Miso is an author. She 00:31:31.619 --> 00:31:37.680 created a book where she highlights some Indigenous 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:39.759 soldiers. I was honored to be a part of that 00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:44.579 project. But I agree, the fabric of Canada as 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:51.359 a country, there's so much of it. is tied to 00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.180 Indigenous peoples and the cultures, histories, 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.119 traditions, and languages. And so military is 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.759 one part of it. I won't say anything else because 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:02.660 I know people have different opinions on it. 00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.240 I want to be respectful of everybody listening. 00:32:04.460 --> 00:32:06.980 But I take a great amount of pride in being in 00:32:06.980 --> 00:32:08.859 the Canadian Armed Forces and being an Indigenous 00:32:08.859 --> 00:32:11.799 person. And I'm just grateful for the opportunities 00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:13.680 that's afforded me and for the structure that's 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.240 given me in my life. Yeah, well, as Mark mentioned, 00:32:17.259 --> 00:32:21.309 and you, over the centuries, time and time again. 00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:27.869 Governments, crowns have relied on Indigenous 00:32:27.869 --> 00:32:31.869 support, military alliances, economic alliances, 00:32:32.089 --> 00:32:38.730 usually to fend off some other influence. So 00:32:38.730 --> 00:32:43.690 you're another fine example of Indigenous people 00:32:43.690 --> 00:32:48.950 stepping up and defending. this country and our 00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:52.930 values so thank you for your service in all its 00:32:52.930 --> 00:32:55.990 forms you do an awful lot well it's it's an honor 00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:59.529 to serve rob and mark thanks very much for thanks 00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:01.910 for setting up this forum it's it's great to 00:33:01.910 --> 00:33:04.529 talk to you both uh whether it's on the podcast 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.410 or whether it's offline uh i have a tremendous 00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:10.630 respect for both of what you're doing and uh 00:33:10.630 --> 00:33:13.250 like i said When it comes to removing vulnerability, 00:33:13.569 --> 00:33:16.529 you need discussions like this and like the discussions 00:33:16.529 --> 00:33:19.029 you've had with so many others to share some 00:33:19.029 --> 00:33:22.730 knowledge, invite curiosity, and give people 00:33:22.730 --> 00:33:24.930 a way that they can learn a bit more so that 00:33:24.930 --> 00:33:29.490 should they want to have a new relationship with 00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:31.710 Indigenous populations or should they want to 00:33:31.710 --> 00:33:34.690 learn more about who Indigenous peoples are and 00:33:34.690 --> 00:33:37.569 what we do, I just am grateful that this exists 00:33:37.569 --> 00:33:41.410 so that people have that outlet. John, maybe 00:33:41.410 --> 00:33:44.910 before we wrap up, why don't you talk about the 00:33:44.910 --> 00:33:48.430 summit coming up from the perspective of Scotiabank 00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:50.869 being the headline sponsor, what you're looking 00:33:50.869 --> 00:33:57.490 for, why you think people should sign up to attend, 00:33:57.710 --> 00:34:00.430 what they're going to benefit from, how this 00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:02.609 fits into what Scotiabank's trying to achieve. 00:34:03.069 --> 00:34:06.109 Sure, Mark. And thanks again for the partnership 00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:09.030 between the Canada Indigenous Investment Summit 00:34:09.030 --> 00:34:14.239 and Scotiabank. So really, my understanding, 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.820 my approach to why this is an important partnership 00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:20.260 is because for all the things that we've talked 00:34:20.260 --> 00:34:23.559 about, about where we're going to see greater 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.059 Indigenous participation and major progress in 00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:29.599 Canada, the summit's really created an excellent 00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:34.179 forum for discussion to talk about some of the 00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:36.119 opportunities, but certainly some of the challenges 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.099 as well and how we work through them. I consider 00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:41.119 it a solutions -based summit. And so whether 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:43.420 it's what you hear on stage through the panelists 00:34:43.420 --> 00:34:46.340 or the conversations that you have when you're 00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:49.920 grabbing a coffee, it's really focused on one 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.139 thing is how do we propel this forward in a way 00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:54.159 that's respectful and from an Indigenous perspective? 00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:56.860 And in the same time, how do we bring in people 00:34:56.860 --> 00:34:59.239 that haven't always been at the table, right? 00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:02.000 Like when we talk about foreign investment or 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.619 foreign joint ventures and partnerships with 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:07.500 Indigenous groups, I mean, I think the summit 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:10.269 really represents this. forward -edge thinking 00:35:10.269 --> 00:35:13.429 in terms of we need to get Indigenous populations, 00:35:13.650 --> 00:35:15.230 especially as these special purpose vehicles 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:18.409 come together, introduced to other partners that 00:35:18.409 --> 00:35:21.190 they wouldn't otherwise think of. And so I find 00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:25.550 it's a welcoming summit. It's not a pretentious 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:27.750 summit in the sense that you can come there with 00:35:27.750 --> 00:35:29.610 very little knowledge and leave with a lot and 00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:33.170 certainly have a pocket full of cards of people 00:35:33.170 --> 00:35:35.949 to talk to to continue on the conversation. But 00:35:35.949 --> 00:35:37.869 what I really liked about it is it's focused 00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:40.230 on a delegation. You've put the right people 00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:43.570 together to have the conversations. And those 00:35:43.570 --> 00:35:46.389 conversations aren't a bunch of heads nodding. 00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:48.809 There's different perspectives of how things 00:35:48.809 --> 00:35:50.650 can be done and where the opportunities are. 00:35:50.750 --> 00:35:54.190 So we're a very proud sponsor of the Canada Indigenous 00:35:54.190 --> 00:35:57.710 Investment Summit. Very proud to be delegates 00:35:57.710 --> 00:36:00.030 at the summit and looking forward to everyone 00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:03.510 that's going to attend. And just as much looking 00:36:03.510 --> 00:36:05.250 forward to the relationships that will be formed 00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:07.889 and continued on. Keep doing what you're doing. 00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:10.349 This is important. The work that you're doing 00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:12.570 through drumbeats, the work that you're doing 00:36:12.570 --> 00:36:17.329 through the summit, keep leading. This is a great 00:36:17.329 --> 00:36:19.210 thing that you've done. I can't say that enough 00:36:19.210 --> 00:36:21.289 between the summit and the other forums that 00:36:21.289 --> 00:36:24.570 you've created for discussion. But now you're 00:36:24.570 --> 00:36:27.650 seeing people start to come in and you're seeing 00:36:27.650 --> 00:36:32.610 greater subscription. I would say thank you for 00:36:32.610 --> 00:36:34.929 doing that and let us know how we can help manage 00:36:34.929 --> 00:36:38.079 the growth. And do so in such a way that brings 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.079 more people in and makes sure that this is a 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:42.119 very inviting place, whether it's a summit or 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.699 drumbeats or anything else that you're looking 00:36:44.699 --> 00:36:49.059 to do. So just thank you very much. Okay, well, 00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.880 thank you in Scotiabank. Rob, is there anything? 00:36:51.940 --> 00:36:53.980 Yeah, we would say the same. John, keep doing 00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:56.360 what you're doing. I'm really enjoying watching 00:36:56.360 --> 00:37:00.340 your career evolve and the impact that you're 00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:05.420 having. So congratulations on the new role. Niall 00:37:05.420 --> 00:37:10.179 Ngoa for being part of this podcast today, and 00:37:10.179 --> 00:37:12.420 we'll look forward to seeing you in London shortly. 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.739 Looking forward to it. Rob, Mark, thank you both 00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:18.480 very much. Okay, thank you very much for your 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:22.820 time today, John. Appreciate that. Thank you 00:37:22.820 --> 00:37:25.280 to Jonathan Davey for sharing his insights with 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.760 us, and thank you for viewing and listening. 00:37:28.780 --> 00:37:31.840 Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.960 taking place on the 8th of April. Be sure to 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.139 share, subscribe, and leave a review on your 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:39.800 favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:41.679 to Drum Beats. Until next time.