WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.710 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.089 --> 00:00:15.609 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Rob Brant and 00:00:15.609 --> 00:00:17.730 I continue our conversation with Nicole Burke 00:00:17.730 --> 00:00:20.690 Boucher, CEO and co -owner of the Boucher Group, 00:00:20.989 --> 00:00:25.190 a $200 million Indigenous -owned industrial services 00:00:25.190 --> 00:00:27.969 company operating in Alberta's Oil Sands region. 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:32.000 with nearly 1 ,500 employees from nearly 100 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.100 different First Nations across the country. In 00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:37.920 the first podcast, Nicole shared how she and 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.200 her husband David built Boucher from a devastating 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.340 first -year loss to becoming one of Canada's 00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:47.039 largest Indigenous -owned companies. Now, we 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:50.119 continue the discussion with Nicole. and talk 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:52.679 about how Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:56.100 transformed Bouchier's business strategy and 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:58.920 why Exxon selected them for its 2024 International 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:01.600 Diverse Supplier Award against thousands of global 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:05.659 contractors. She talks how her company achieved 00:01:05.659 --> 00:01:09.560 25 % growth in peak years and why her and her 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.260 team are now deliberately slowing to 5 % growth 00:01:12.260 --> 00:01:15.980 at the $200 million threshold to look at diversification 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:19.950 beyond the all sense. So let's continue this 00:01:19.950 --> 00:01:24.049 very engaging conversation. Particularly for 00:01:24.049 --> 00:01:29.010 our European listeners, Nicole, that the oil 00:01:29.010 --> 00:01:34.310 sands can have a negative connotation. So when 00:01:34.310 --> 00:01:37.469 you talk about Indigenous culture and teachings 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:42.230 and working in a place with fossil fuels and 00:01:42.230 --> 00:01:46.469 oil sands, how do the two work hand in hand? 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:51.250 I mean, I'm going to say that I can only give 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:53.849 you my opinion and my perspective on it. I think 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:57.150 depending on who you ask, you'll get varying 00:01:57.150 --> 00:02:00.030 degrees of answers, I'm sure. Dave and I have 00:02:00.030 --> 00:02:02.640 often, you know. struggled with the fact because 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.120 we love our traditional activities with our families 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.219 as well. And we find ourselves having to go a 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:10.199 little further out of our communities to practice 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:12.680 those now because the footprint of the oil sands 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.340 is all around us. But as Indigenous people, I 00:02:16.340 --> 00:02:18.659 think we have an opportunity presented to us 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:23.229 right now to be able to thrive. off of minerals 00:02:23.229 --> 00:02:26.469 mineral rights of things going on around us and 00:02:26.469 --> 00:02:29.229 we could have taken the choice to fight it we 00:02:29.229 --> 00:02:32.469 could have taken the choice to work against it 00:02:32.469 --> 00:02:36.090 but we we chose to embrace it we chose to embrace 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:39.919 what was going around um around us and embrace 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.699 it as best as we can and i think we're an ideal 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:47.780 representation of when you work as a true partner 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:51.620 alongside your neighbors what truly is possible 00:02:51.620 --> 00:02:54.780 and what could happen and i spend a lot of my 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.840 time as an indigenous female entrepreneur traveling 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.379 throughout canada being able to shed a different 00:03:00.379 --> 00:03:03.500 light on our wood buffalo region and oil sands 00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:06.949 operations here because i think it's so fundamental 00:03:06.949 --> 00:03:10.750 and paramount to what's going on in Canada right 00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:14.430 now. And there's so many great things happening 00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:16.969 as a result, especially right here in my own 00:03:16.969 --> 00:03:19.770 community. And I think those stories need to 00:03:19.770 --> 00:03:22.810 be told more. You look at Boucher alone and you 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:24.949 look at what we've been able to give to the community, 00:03:25.210 --> 00:03:28.310 12 million plus back into the communities, the 00:03:28.310 --> 00:03:31.189 skills we've been able to develop with our Indigenous 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:35.229 people representing almost 100. Indigenous communities 00:03:35.229 --> 00:03:37.789 across Canada. These people work for us. They 00:03:37.789 --> 00:03:41.750 learn skills in an environment that's very supportive. 00:03:41.949 --> 00:03:44.310 They learn training, and then they're able to 00:03:44.310 --> 00:03:46.550 take those back to their own communities times 00:03:46.550 --> 00:03:49.590 100 communities across Canada. To me, that's 00:03:49.590 --> 00:03:54.090 true impact. Yes. Yeah, and I suppose you've, 00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:57.490 well, I'll ask, do you feel you've had an influence 00:03:57.490 --> 00:04:02.569 in the way business is done, say, in the oil 00:04:02.569 --> 00:04:07.939 sands? I like to think we have in our own special 00:04:07.939 --> 00:04:12.900 way. I think I'd love to see more contractors 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:18.439 in our region follow suit. We have a lot of contractors 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:22.199 that come in and with their expertise. And I 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.740 think when you come into any community, you have 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.480 a bit of a social responsibility to leave it 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.939 better than you found it. And so I think that's 00:04:31.939 --> 00:04:37.800 what we stand for. Yes, quite clearly. I think 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.060 it's important for our audience over here to 00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:42.560 understand because for many people, Canada hasn't 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.060 been on the radar for a number of years. The 00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:49.540 world's changed. It's on everybody's radar now. 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.319 But you mentioned about the Truth and Reconciliation 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.259 Commission and the findings of that was kind 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:57.980 of a pivot for your business in the sense you 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:00.120 had been living those values, but now there was 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.360 this platform. Can you talk about that moment 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.220 and how it changed? how you saw the potential 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:08.339 to grow your business? Because I think it's really 00:05:08.339 --> 00:05:10.699 important for people to understand Canada is 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:14.660 not the place it was 10 or 20 years ago. Yeah, 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:16.959 so I think that, you know, there was this piece 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:19.759 of not wanting to say we're Indigenous for the 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:21.879 first few years of business. It was this whole 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.220 thing about, I don't want someone to give me 00:05:24.220 --> 00:05:26.459 a contract just because we're Indigenous. I want 00:05:26.459 --> 00:05:30.199 to earn the contract. And so we shied away from 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.920 who we were as individuals. We shied away from 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:35.879 our culture and what it stood for. And we really 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:39.240 tried to work in the business community 100 percent, 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:42.420 be able to compete alongside all the other businesses, 00:05:42.660 --> 00:05:44.939 non -Indigenous businesses. And then when the 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.459 truth and reconciliation came about within Canada, 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:52.550 you started to see organizations, schools. general 00:05:52.550 --> 00:05:56.110 population embrace the concept and actually start 00:05:56.110 --> 00:05:59.009 learning what happened years ago within Canada 00:05:59.009 --> 00:06:03.509 and being able to explain why Indigenous people 00:06:03.509 --> 00:06:06.230 in some areas are in the state that they're in 00:06:06.230 --> 00:06:08.350 or some communities are in the state that they're 00:06:08.350 --> 00:06:11.350 in. And so with this awareness and this education. 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:16.139 when it came about and it brought a level of 00:06:16.139 --> 00:06:18.699 understanding to the table that wasn't there 00:06:18.699 --> 00:06:21.180 before. And then you had organizations start 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:23.339 to really look towards, well, what can we do 00:06:23.339 --> 00:06:25.519 in the space of truth and reconciliation with 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.740 Indigenous people within Canada? And so it opened 00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:31.100 up doors that just were never opened before for 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:33.939 Indigenous people at all levels, not only in 00:06:33.939 --> 00:06:36.220 business, but in education and in health care 00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:39.350 right across the board. And so you've seen this 00:06:39.350 --> 00:06:42.410 happening. You've seen this wave of change happening 00:06:42.410 --> 00:06:44.730 throughout Canada. And as a business, we wanted 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:47.250 to take part of that. And it felt really good. 00:06:47.310 --> 00:06:49.230 It felt like timing was really good to finally 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:52.449 step into our own and be able to just be really 00:06:52.449 --> 00:06:56.509 proud of who we are and be able to say, you know. 00:06:56.990 --> 00:06:59.910 Our culture, our Indigenous culture and celebrating 00:06:59.910 --> 00:07:03.430 it could very much walk in alignment with business 00:07:03.430 --> 00:07:06.790 and they could be one. And so I think that's 00:07:06.790 --> 00:07:08.730 what we've brought to the table is being able 00:07:08.730 --> 00:07:11.170 to show Canada that Indigenous entrepreneurs 00:07:11.170 --> 00:07:14.980 can be very successful entrepreneurs. Not through 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:17.360 joint ventures and partnerships only, but by 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.060 truly running their own business and taking all 00:07:20.060 --> 00:07:22.319 of their traditional teachings into their business. 00:07:22.779 --> 00:07:25.439 And I think it benefits everybody, Indigenous 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.139 and non -Indigenous. Yes, I'm sure of that. And 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:31.839 I think one of the other interesting things for 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.100 people when they're listening to this and you 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:37.459 talk about you have, I think, close to nearly 00:07:37.459 --> 00:07:40.459 100 different nations from across the country. 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.480 How does that work? you know outsiders look and 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.399 think oh how do i how do i navigate this and 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.379 you've navigated they've all joined in your company 00:07:51.379 --> 00:07:56.100 and going in the same direction yeah yeah we 00:07:56.100 --> 00:07:59.990 because of our partners again our clients because 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:02.470 of the way they run their sites a lot of the 00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:05.410 sites have to be fly in and so we're able to 00:08:05.410 --> 00:08:08.149 work with communities right across canada fly 00:08:08.149 --> 00:08:11.810 them up to site provide a shift schedule of like 00:08:11.810 --> 00:08:15.290 for example seven days on seven days off and 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:19.519 the interesting part of being set you know they 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:21.399 they have to move away from their families for 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:23.819 seven days at a time but i think they move into 00:08:23.819 --> 00:08:27.000 their work family at that time and we have people 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.100 have been with us for 20 years they've embraced 00:08:29.100 --> 00:08:31.899 that this we're their second family and they 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:34.019 fly up and they spend their seven days with us 00:08:34.019 --> 00:08:36.360 and we're extremely grateful for it and then 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.220 they go home and they enrich their communities 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:41.279 with different skills and things that they've 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.139 learned at work wow very powerful and then something 00:08:46.139 --> 00:08:50.320 like that translates into ExxonMobil's International 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:54.320 Diverse Supplier Award. And for some of our listeners, 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:59.159 Imperial Oil is the name of the Canadian subsidiary 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:03.000 of Exxon that never changed all those years ago. 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:08.539 But that is a huge recognition of a successful 00:09:08.539 --> 00:09:10.779 firm that competes with the best across the world 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:13.259 because Exxon is across the world and you won 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:15.519 that award. Can you tell us a little bit about 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:19.370 that? Yeah, it was definitely a highlight in 00:09:19.370 --> 00:09:23.070 our business for the 25 years that I've been 00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:25.610 a part of it. It was definitely one of the highlights 00:09:25.610 --> 00:09:29.480 that we received a couple of years ago. It really 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.799 showed the level of impact that Boucher was having 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.299 on its workforce and its communities in which 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:37.720 it lived and worked, that it was recognized by 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.259 ExxonMobil for our work, not only within the 00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:43.320 Wood Buffalo community, but specifically at their 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:47.779 site, which is the curl operations. The whole 00:09:47.779 --> 00:09:51.320 diverse supplier award to me speaks to the fact 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.899 that, you know, we are embracing culture, but 00:09:53.899 --> 00:09:56.539 beyond the Indigenous culture as well, because 00:09:56.539 --> 00:10:00.330 out of our 1 ,400 employees, Fort McMurray is 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:04.039 a very... multicultural community. So we have 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:07.899 a lot of cultures that work for us. So yes, we 00:10:07.899 --> 00:10:12.639 absolutely emphasize our indigenous people and 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:16.039 being able to work with them and being able to 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:19.019 help them have career paths and build new skills, 00:10:19.179 --> 00:10:22.419 but all cultures as well. And so I think it really 00:10:22.419 --> 00:10:26.220 spoke to our true partnership that we have alongside 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:28.679 ExxonMobil and what we've developed over the 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.850 years with them. recognition for their understanding 00:10:31.850 --> 00:10:34.409 of what they see within Boucher and what it's 00:10:34.409 --> 00:10:39.590 been able to do on their site. Yes. Now, what 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:42.090 about the future of Boucher? Nicole, you mentioned 00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:48.250 possible opportunities outside of Alberta. You've 00:10:48.250 --> 00:10:51.450 probably been approached in the past about things 00:10:51.450 --> 00:10:55.330 like partnerships and other expansion ideas, 00:10:55.529 --> 00:11:01.840 maybe even IPOs going public. What does the future 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:06.539 look like, do you think? You know, we are a type 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:10.759 of company that embraces change and always looks 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:14.279 to grow. I'm a big advocate within our organization 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:17.139 to never compare ourselves to anybody else. So 00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:20.620 I'm always about how do we beat ourselves annually, 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:22.700 year on year? What are we doing to make ourselves 00:11:22.700 --> 00:11:25.080 different? What are we doing to be innovative? 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.340 What are we doing to grow? And the models worked 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:31.440 well for us because we have had years of growth 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.700 of upwards of 25%. But traditionally, we do about 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.320 10 % growth year on year. The last couple of 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:42.149 years, though, we closed 2025 on a... 5 % growth 00:11:42.149 --> 00:11:44.470 to the year before. And then this year, we're 00:11:44.470 --> 00:11:47.429 forecasted for another 5 % growth in our budget. 00:11:48.029 --> 00:11:52.269 But that is what I'm continuing to embrace is 00:11:52.269 --> 00:11:55.149 I think there's more to do out there. And I think 00:11:55.149 --> 00:11:57.649 there's places that we could grow into. And I 00:11:57.649 --> 00:12:00.309 think there's services that we could diversify 00:12:00.309 --> 00:12:04.269 ourselves into. But I want to be very careful 00:12:04.269 --> 00:12:07.799 on the growth. right now we're going through 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.320 a period that i say at the 200 million mark it 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.980 almost feels like year one again because there's 00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:15.679 just a reinvestment into the company that has 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.340 to be made right now around people around systems 00:12:19.340 --> 00:12:23.360 processes an eye on innovation in order to really 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.460 create another foundation and another level to 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:29.940 be able to grow double in size in the next five 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:34.539 years and with some of the recent changes in 00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:39.370 the global order or who we work with and who 00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.529 we want to sell to. The Europeans and the Asians, 00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:46.009 Prime Minister Mark Carney was over in China 00:12:46.009 --> 00:12:51.370 recently looking at how can we be your energy 00:12:51.370 --> 00:12:55.750 partner. Europe's relooking. Today they're just 00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:58.169 talking about LNG, want to balance things off. 00:12:58.309 --> 00:13:02.399 But the oil sands are at the heart of... Canada's 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.019 resource economy to a large degree. What are 00:13:05.019 --> 00:13:07.480 you seeing now on the ground about the opportunities 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.399 and the changes that have been talked about? 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:12.559 That must have changed the perspective you have 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.440 on the future of the business. Well, I'll tell 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.529 you that. The life cycle, even within a given 00:13:18.529 --> 00:13:22.169 year of our business on a on a revenue basis 00:13:22.169 --> 00:13:25.570 coincides usually with the oil prices. Right. 00:13:25.769 --> 00:13:30.049 And, you know, it just takes one event in the 00:13:30.049 --> 00:13:32.870 world happening and that affects markets immediately. 00:13:33.289 --> 00:13:37.129 Right. And so if it affects our clients, then 00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:40.009 that trickles down to the contractor on the ground. 00:13:40.149 --> 00:13:45.159 And so. You know, I think there is a bright future 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:48.419 for sure. I think we're working our way there. 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:52.759 I think there's just a positive story that needs 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.320 to be retold about the oil sands that I think 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.240 for some reason across the world. There's just 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.840 such a negative connotation when you think oil 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:05.519 sands. And if people would only take the opportunity 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.379 to come and visit us and see what I see every 00:14:08.379 --> 00:14:11.159 single day, it really is a land of opportunity. 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.700 And that's one of the things that we try to market 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:18.700 as a business ourselves is come and join us. 00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:20.919 You know, our company is full of opportunity 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:23.679 because we continue to grow. One of the reasons 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.259 why we've been able to anchor in this community 00:14:26.259 --> 00:14:28.700 and grow is because of the oil sands. right the 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:31.580 biggest reason so we're huge advocates and I 00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:34.360 just think we're even the land that we have you 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.220 know I'm looking out right now into a bunch of 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.840 green trees all around me it is beautiful up 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:41.700 here the water the land if you if you're an outdoors 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:44.740 person this is the place you want to be you get 00:14:44.740 --> 00:14:47.440 out I get out within the outdoors every single 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.639 weekend so I just think you know it's such a 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.409 negative negative tone overall and there's just 00:14:54.409 --> 00:14:57.330 no need because once you visit here, you'll walk 00:14:57.330 --> 00:15:01.809 away with totally a different mindset. Yes. Amen 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:04.309 to that and that's one of the reasons we started 00:15:04.309 --> 00:15:07.330 the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit in 00:15:07.330 --> 00:15:11.169 London was to be able to tell stories like that 00:15:11.169 --> 00:15:16.529 and to try to change the perception and educate 00:15:16.529 --> 00:15:20.110 potential partners and investors about how to 00:15:20.110 --> 00:15:23.620 engage. in Canada, especially with Indigenous 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:27.720 communities and partners, and also make them 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:29.919 aware of some fantastic business opportunities 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.320 and investment opportunities. One of the other 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:37.139 things we touched on earlier was about giving 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:40.299 back to the community, and you give a significant 00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:44.360 amount back into your community, which is... 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.559 part of how you operate as a business. Can you 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.759 talk a little bit more about that and some of 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.340 the programs that you run? Because it really 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:57.159 shows a business that succeeded because you knew 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.559 you were part of something bigger, not just, 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.279 oh, we got a business, how do we make money? 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.179 It's how do we make sure it's sustainable and 00:16:04.179 --> 00:16:07.659 that we're well -respected in the community? 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:10.899 Yeah, I think you heard me say earlier that I 00:16:10.899 --> 00:16:14.980 think As business organizations, we have an obligation 00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:18.240 to social responsibility in the communities in 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.440 which we live and work. And I think it's because 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:23.399 of our traditional ways of being Indigenous people. 00:16:23.620 --> 00:16:27.340 Indigenous people long ago were a nomad community, 00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:30.799 but you lived together and you worked together 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.379 and you fed each other together and everybody 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:36.440 played a role within our community. And so I 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:40.480 think it's just fundamentally in. us as Indigenous 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.120 people to want to help community. And so we see 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.659 community giving as not charitable giving as 00:16:47.659 --> 00:16:50.779 much as value creation within community. And 00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:54.419 I think strong communities for us when we invest 00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:56.620 in our communities, you know, means a stronger 00:16:56.620 --> 00:16:59.620 workforce. It means a stronger community. And 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:02.879 so the return on investment is definitely there 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.359 tenfold. And we see it each and every day. We 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.539 see it in being able to help about one not social 00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:15.420 profit organization, we have this saying within 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:18.500 our company that we don't partner up with one 00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:21.359 of our non -for -profit organizations without 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.940 looking to strengthen them in the long run. We 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:26.619 look for long -term partnerships with our social 00:17:26.619 --> 00:17:30.619 profit sector and we like to leave them better 00:17:30.619 --> 00:17:34.869 than we found them. by working together as true 00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:38.150 partners through transparency and honesty. And 00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:42.970 so that could be something as small as, you know, 00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:45.349 helping them stand up a new event that could 00:17:45.349 --> 00:17:48.269 raise money for them year on year to help with 00:17:48.269 --> 00:17:51.730 their operations, right? We spend a lot of time 00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:54.829 working within our youth sector for recreation. 00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:58.890 It is an area that our larger oil sands clients 00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:03.309 tend to not support as much because it's children 00:18:03.309 --> 00:18:07.470 within hockey, as an example, ice hockey or soccer. 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:11.490 So we tend to fill a big piece of that space 00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:15.589 because I find when you're able to work with 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:18.490 families through their children. that has a huge 00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.069 impact. You have hardworking parents that are 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:23.569 usually shift workers up here and being able 00:18:23.569 --> 00:18:26.890 to go in and support their families and their 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:30.910 children's recreational activities takes a big 00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:35.130 stressor off of the families for sure. But charitable 00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.890 giving is huge. We have three pillars that we 00:18:37.890 --> 00:18:41.829 look towards and obviously women empowerment 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:45.170 is a huge piece of that. Youth and education 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.529 is a big piece of that. Cultural. Building out 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:51.829 culture is a really big piece. So we get involved 00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:55.329 in many, many different organizations. Yes, you're 00:18:55.329 --> 00:18:58.730 known for giving back, which is great. Just coming 00:18:58.730 --> 00:19:02.509 back a bit to the Indigenous partnerships and 00:19:02.509 --> 00:19:05.690 what non -Indigenous firms and international 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:09.450 investors, what do you think they most misunderstand 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:11.430 about Indigenous partnerships? Because you went 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:14.549 from one point trying to compete by saying you're 00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:17.390 not Indigenous. because at the time that wasn't 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:21.910 a positive thing to be seen after truth and reconciliation 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:25.849 all those issues came to table and you were able 00:19:25.849 --> 00:19:28.410 to speak proudly of who you are without feeling 00:19:28.410 --> 00:19:31.890 it was holding you back for people who haven't 00:19:31.890 --> 00:19:33.730 worked with indigenous companies before what 00:19:33.730 --> 00:19:35.589 are some of the misunderstandings that you've 00:19:35.589 --> 00:19:40.630 you've come across or or think some key insights 00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:43.750 that they should know going forward to help them 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:47.680 succeed Yeah, I mean, I could speak from my experience 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.660 with having a partner along our journey for five 00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:54.359 years. We had a company out of the UK called 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:59.319 Carillion, and they had purchased a minority 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.640 share within our organization. And they were 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.920 able to bring in and strengthen our facility 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.960 maintenance side of things. And I think probably 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.700 the biggest misconception right off the bat was 00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:14.140 as Indigenous people, we really didn't know how 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:17.359 to run a business. And I think as they got in 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:19.759 and we stood up a board and I reported into the 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.059 board, I think they realized quite quickly, okay, 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.480 let them run their business. They know exactly 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:27.839 what they're doing, but how can we support them 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.400 better? And in the five years that they were 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.920 a part of our organization is when we did our 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:36.000 largest growth. Because, you know, we were like, 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.400 again, it was we were like sponges learning from, 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:42.779 you know, the global public entity. And there 00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:45.019 were so many great governance pieces that we 00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:48.039 were able to learn from them. But in return, 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.240 I think we were able to help them understand 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.839 oil sands a lot more, help them understand indigenous 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:58.619 culture, indigenous people, and how the right 00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:02.019 way to work and not to work with us. So we had 00:21:02.019 --> 00:21:04.839 a great relationship. And I think there's just 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:09.119 a common misunderstanding that you have to go 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.880 in and save Indigenous people and save Indigenous 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.339 communities. And that's not the case. You want 00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:19.400 to work with, you want to truly partner where 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:21.519 you each have something to bring to the table 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.259 because we each have something to learn from 00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:26.519 each other and we each have a learning to give. 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:29.940 And I think a lot of non -Indigenous companies 00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:32.619 come in thinking it's very one -sided and it's 00:21:32.619 --> 00:21:36.440 not. It should be 50 -50. Yes. And coming back 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:38.779 to that UK partnership, you had the foresight 00:21:38.779 --> 00:21:45.119 to end it before Carillion and a huge group in 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.200 the UK. And when they were facing their challenges, 00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:51.180 there were so many projects across the UK and 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:53.720 infrastructure across the way that were at risk. 00:21:53.779 --> 00:21:56.380 How is the UK going to function with this company? 00:21:56.619 --> 00:22:02.059 But luckily, you took back control before that. 00:22:02.509 --> 00:22:05.950 Just at the right time. And we were very lucky 00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:10.170 to be able to end up where we did. I'll be honest. 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:13.170 Initially, we entertained the acquisition at 00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:16.049 the minority share as part of a long -term exit 00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:18.970 strategy for Dave and I. And so we found ourselves 00:22:18.970 --> 00:22:22.069 in very, very uncomfortable, unfamiliar territory 00:22:22.069 --> 00:22:25.309 when five years later, that exit strategy turned 00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:28.470 to the other side and they were exiting. And 00:22:28.470 --> 00:22:31.980 we found ourselves the ones having to put out 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:35.039 a lot of money to buy our shares back. But it 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.420 was great. There wasn't a single thing that I 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:39.599 would change. They were completely respectful 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.019 over the five years. I learned a ton. And it 00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:45.759 got us visiting London on a regular basis and 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:49.380 going to their conferences. And we were always 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:53.079 being recognized on the safety front with annual 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.380 awards. Because one thing about our area up here 00:22:56.380 --> 00:22:59.680 in the oil sands is we are very safety sensitive. 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.980 And so when you come up here and work, it's like 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:05.299 working no other. place in the world in terms 00:23:05.299 --> 00:23:10.460 of the health and safety side of things. Well, 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.420 I hope the summit gives you an opportunity to 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:17.839 come back to London and maybe re -engage if you 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.660 haven't been there in a while. But there's a 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:23.259 lot of interest again in Canada and especially 00:23:23.259 --> 00:23:29.099 in businesses like yourself and Boucher Group. 00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:33.190 And really interesting perspective to have an 00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:37.329 Indigenous -owned company in the heart of the 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:42.029 oil sands. And, you know, the economic development 00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:45.509 story and the benefits that you and the communities 00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:50.289 around have seen from the oil sands is a message, 00:23:50.369 --> 00:23:52.869 I think, that's worth getting outside Canada. 00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:56.809 I agree. We've talked a lot about the Indigenous 00:23:56.809 --> 00:24:00.390 perspective and non -Indigenous, but there's 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:02.589 a lot of young women who still need role models 00:24:02.589 --> 00:24:06.869 out there. And you've grown and led this successful 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:10.109 company. What are some lessons that you can share 00:24:10.109 --> 00:24:16.009 with our audience about how to succeed in a world 00:24:16.009 --> 00:24:20.470 that's maybe not, it's different for a guy, right? 00:24:21.609 --> 00:24:26.319 It most definitely is. So what are some lessons 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.099 for women listening? And also, what are some 00:24:29.099 --> 00:24:31.299 lessons for the men who are listening and they 00:24:31.299 --> 00:24:36.460 get out of the way, right? You know, I think 00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:44.160 we're in a different stage as a people all together, 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:49.759 where women have a lot to offer through our... 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:54.440 sense of the empathy side of things. And I think 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.880 we need to start creating more empathetic work 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.920 environments. And I think that's where I think 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.920 you need to lean into and listen to your female 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.400 counterparts for sure. I think for the young 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.380 females listening, I would say that you need 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:15.359 to not give up. You need to, I knew I spent, 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.500 I can only tell you my journey and it's been 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:21.920 challenging. i have spent a lot of time listening 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.079 and learning that was really important for me 00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:27.720 i chose when to step in and i chose when to use 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.960 my voice but my voice was a little bit more silent 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.079 in the first couple years because i really wanted 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.039 to take it on all in and learn so that when i 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:40.660 did speak you wanted to listen because you know 00:25:40.660 --> 00:25:43.710 nicole i got to a point where it's like she does 00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:45.470 know what she's talking about. She might be a 00:25:45.470 --> 00:25:47.410 female in the construction environment, but she 00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:49.230 knows what she's talking about. But that doesn't 00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:53.250 come right away, right? So I think my confidence 00:25:53.250 --> 00:25:56.549 was built over time. And there were some really 00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.329 hard times where I wanted to pack it in and walk 00:25:59.329 --> 00:26:02.849 away. But I'm not, I'm very resilient. I'm not 00:26:02.849 --> 00:26:05.750 a quitter. And I just kept going and going. And 00:26:05.750 --> 00:26:09.329 biggest piece of advice I could give is don't 00:26:09.329 --> 00:26:13.250 wallow for too long. I think a failure happens 00:26:13.250 --> 00:26:15.690 and there are more failures than there are successes. 00:26:16.250 --> 00:26:18.990 You listen to any entrepreneur speak, there's 00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:21.430 more failures than successes, but those failures 00:26:21.430 --> 00:26:24.589 help prepare you to ultimately be able to handle 00:26:24.589 --> 00:26:27.150 that success and not let it go to your head. 00:26:28.229 --> 00:26:30.950 But when a failure does happen, don't stay down 00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:33.490 too long. Get back up. Get back up on your feet 00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:35.910 and keep going. For me, I'd give myself a week 00:26:35.910 --> 00:26:38.289 max, a week, and I had to get back up and keep 00:26:38.289 --> 00:26:40.730 going. And it was really when I started to tell 00:26:40.730 --> 00:26:43.650 myself I didn't need the male counterpart. I 00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:46.509 don't need the male COO to run my business. I 00:26:46.509 --> 00:26:49.089 could just do this myself. And that's when I 00:26:49.089 --> 00:26:51.589 started telling myself a different story in my 00:26:51.589 --> 00:26:54.890 head and believing in myself and my ability and 00:26:54.890 --> 00:26:57.930 my skills. That's when I started to see things 00:26:57.930 --> 00:27:01.369 really change, right? So, you know, just don't 00:27:01.369 --> 00:27:03.809 give up. Have that resiliency and strength to 00:27:03.809 --> 00:27:06.150 keep going because listen to that little inner 00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:09.940 voice because it's usually always right. um yeah 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:12.480 and and just believe in your dreams so i never 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.740 really dreamt this to be honest with you this 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:17.240 isn't where i'm sitting today is i didn't dream 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.160 i'd be sitting here today i didn't actually i 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.859 thought i was gonna be a school teacher to be 00:27:21.859 --> 00:27:25.680 honest with you um but life started to unfold 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.039 and i really had this whole sense of go with 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:32.779 it and each event that happened along the way 00:27:32.779 --> 00:27:35.400 always happens for a reason so embrace it learn 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:39.539 from it and keep going Great. So that's when 00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:47.140 you made Dave president. Get out there. He has 00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:49.359 his own full -time job. He's a counselor with 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:53.279 his First Nation. So it's a great balance. Yes, 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:55.599 it seems like it. Talk to us a little bit about 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:58.460 that family dynamic. Your father involved, a 00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:00.940 50 -50 partner with your husband. Are there other 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:04.059 generations now involved in the business? I was 00:28:04.059 --> 00:28:06.579 really struck in Vancouver in December. You received 00:28:06.579 --> 00:28:09.900 an award from the Canadian Council of Indigenous 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:16.019 Business, a Lifetime Achievement Award, and you 00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:20.299 had a lot of your family on stage with you. Talk 00:28:20.299 --> 00:28:24.000 to us a bit about how that, the pros and cons 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.529 of working so closely with family. Well, working 00:28:28.529 --> 00:28:31.089 with your spouse is extremely hard, that's for 00:28:31.089 --> 00:28:33.970 sure. And I think we struck a balance very early 00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:36.349 on of what he took care of and what I took care 00:28:36.349 --> 00:28:38.990 of. And then as we started to grow the business, 00:28:39.069 --> 00:28:41.910 it became very evident that we probably couldn't 00:28:41.910 --> 00:28:44.069 work day to day within the business. But I was 00:28:44.069 --> 00:28:47.630 lucky enough that he had a huge heart for his 00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:50.470 community. So he stepped into a leadership role 00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:53.769 within his community, which still allowed him 00:28:53.769 --> 00:28:57.539 to work in alignment with. Boucher, but at arm's 00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:00.259 length. And so he sits on our board. He's the 00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:02.200 chair of our board. We have a great board of 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:06.380 advisors. And then I report in. So I report into 00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:08.599 the board on a quarterly basis. So we found a 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.400 way to work through it. Having family work in 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.140 the business, you know, probably one of the largest 00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:17.440 struggles I had is I told you earlier, I come 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.920 from a family of three, four girls. I'm actually 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.779 the last surviving sibling amongst my younger 00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:28.740 sisters. So they've all passed. And at one point 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:32.480 I had my mom, my dad and a sister working within 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.619 the business when another sibling passed. And 00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:39.789 so I lost my three. family members to the like, 00:29:39.849 --> 00:29:43.490 they left the business, obviously, for for with 00:29:43.490 --> 00:29:46.130 the crisis we were going through. And so it left 00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:48.750 me kind of kind of having to hold everything 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:51.210 up, I felt by myself. And that was that was probably 00:29:51.210 --> 00:29:53.170 one of the most challenging points of my life. 00:29:53.430 --> 00:29:56.369 So, you know, it's hard as much as it's great 00:29:56.369 --> 00:29:58.490 to work with your family. You know, there's definitely 00:29:58.490 --> 00:30:01.750 pros and cons. But without my family, I wouldn't 00:30:01.750 --> 00:30:04.420 be. where i am today because they got us through 00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:06.599 those early days they were the backbone of those 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:08.960 early days when nobody wanted to nobody really 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.420 believed in us our family did And then today, 00:30:12.579 --> 00:30:14.400 you know, it's coming full circle because now 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:16.460 we have our own children entering the business. 00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.519 We have two of them that work full time right 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:22.220 now in the business. We have five children between 00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:24.839 the two of us. And so two have just entered the 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:27.559 business a few years ago. So it's great. It's 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.400 very rewarding. You have to be very careful, 00:30:30.579 --> 00:30:32.440 you know, because you don't want to hold them 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.259 to a different standard. That's very important. 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:37.700 But it's nice to see them come into the business 00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:43.599 at long last. Wow. Thank you for that. One thing 00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:46.099 I'd like to circle back on is this whole piece 00:30:46.099 --> 00:30:48.400 on working with Indigenous people and Indigenous 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.559 communities. I really want people to understand 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:57.480 that Indigenous people are a type of people that 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:00.980 is very relationship built. And we don't come 00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:05.279 from a place years ago. um we made agreements 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:09.039 over a handshake and your word so your word matters 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.960 and so i often see organizations not only business 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.380 organizations but social profit organizations 00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:19.980 come into first nation communities and the approach 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:23.200 they take is not one that's relationship built 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.940 but really it's uh more of a paper -based approach 00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.900 and i always tell them with especially with chief 00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:33.920 and council or with First Nation people, you 00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.500 have one opportunity to make an impression. That's 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:40.920 it. It's your one opportunity. And what you leave 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.420 on the table when you leave a meeting or you 00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:47.019 leave a visit or you leave an encounter, that's 00:31:47.019 --> 00:31:51.079 it right there. And so I think if, you know, 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:53.970 I would suggest that a lot of... organizations 00:31:53.970 --> 00:31:57.109 coming into our Indigenous communities, take 00:31:57.109 --> 00:31:59.690 the time to learn the community before you go 00:31:59.690 --> 00:32:03.289 in, right? Don't just pick up the phone and call 00:32:03.289 --> 00:32:05.910 one person, but take the time to really understand 00:32:05.910 --> 00:32:09.670 that community and understand the leaders. And 00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:12.410 when I say leaders, they're not always the actual 00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.910 government leaders. Leaders in Indigenous communities 00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:18.750 show up in very different ways. So take the time 00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:21.529 to understand the leaders of that community and 00:32:21.529 --> 00:32:24.609 really plan out what you're going to do to go 00:32:24.609 --> 00:32:27.029 into that community with a different mindset. 00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:32.029 Because you do only have one chance to go in. 00:32:32.269 --> 00:32:35.710 And our Indigenous people are just beautiful 00:32:35.710 --> 00:32:40.829 people and they have so much to give. And I just 00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:44.049 think if more organizations took the time ahead 00:32:44.049 --> 00:32:46.750 of time to understand them, I think they would 00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:49.130 be a lot more successful in their approaches, 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:55.170 right? Yes. Hear, hear. I think non -Indigenous 00:32:55.170 --> 00:32:59.369 companies and others are sometimes worried that 00:32:59.369 --> 00:33:01.450 they don't understand the differences between 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:03.809 the different communities and cultures, and that 00:33:03.809 --> 00:33:06.710 sort of holds them back. maybe a bit embarrassed 00:33:06.710 --> 00:33:09.470 that they don't understand it all, but Indigenous 00:33:09.470 --> 00:33:13.049 people are quite open and they love somebody 00:33:13.049 --> 00:33:17.769 who wants to learn and they want to share with 00:33:17.769 --> 00:33:20.710 people like that. So that's good encouragement. 00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:25.750 Yeah, absolutely. And we've heard over our podcast, 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:27.349 talking with different people, similar things. 00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:30.069 The Japanese will show up in a partnership or 00:33:30.069 --> 00:33:33.470 the Koreans come and they know exactly that they're 00:33:33.470 --> 00:33:36.339 on the start of a journey. Whereas perhaps other 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:40.480 Canadians or Americans or maybe the British and 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.420 others show up and, oh, we know you. So let's 00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:47.099 get down to the deal. Whereas most of the world 00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:50.880 works like the Indigenous people of Canada do. 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.619 Let's get to know each other before we do a deal. 00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:57.700 So it's interesting. And that's a huge competitive 00:33:57.700 --> 00:34:00.269 edge, I think, now for Canada. One hundred percent. 00:34:00.509 --> 00:34:03.069 Yeah. It has to make sense to both parties, right? 00:34:03.509 --> 00:34:06.670 It's not a I'm coming in and saving you or I 00:34:06.670 --> 00:34:09.829 have more to offer than you do. Really, both 00:34:09.829 --> 00:34:11.809 parties have a lot to offer, but you need to 00:34:11.809 --> 00:34:13.610 take the time to understand each other more. 00:34:15.130 --> 00:34:19.110 Yes. Well, I think I think we've we've used up 00:34:19.110 --> 00:34:21.269 more of your time than we planned. No worries. 00:34:21.750 --> 00:34:25.550 So why don't we just do a wrap up and then see 00:34:25.550 --> 00:34:30.929 one can come in. Thank you on behalf of Rob and 00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:33.369 I and everyone at the Canadian Indigenous Investment 00:34:33.369 --> 00:34:37.889 Summit. It has been great, Nicole, to have you 00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:41.730 on the program representing your firm and your 00:34:41.730 --> 00:34:45.230 community and just reinforce one of the great 00:34:45.230 --> 00:34:48.809 entrepreneurs in Canada. So real wonderful to 00:34:48.809 --> 00:34:51.110 have you here. Thank you very much. Thank you 00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:54.110 for having me. It's been an honor. Yeah, thank 00:34:54.110 --> 00:34:55.869 you, Nicole, for taking the time and sharing. 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.780 As much as you have with us, there's so much 00:34:58.780 --> 00:35:03.119 to learn from your story. So congratulations 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:13.420 and all the best. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you 00:35:13.420 --> 00:35:15.659 to Nicole Burke Boucher for sharing your insights 00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:18.179 with us. And thank you for viewing and listening. 00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:21.539 Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:24.659 taking place on the 8th of April. Be sure to 00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:26.840 share, subscribe, and leave a review on your 00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:29.500 favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening 00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:31.380 to Drum Beats. Until next time.