WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.810 --> 00:00:15.369 I'm Mark McNachin, my co -host Robert Brantner, 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:18.870 joined today by Nicole Burke -Boucher, CEO and 00:00:18.870 --> 00:00:21.940 co -owner of the Boucher Group. one of Canada's 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:23.899 largest privately owned Indigenous companies 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:26.660 with close to $200 million in annual revenues 00:00:26.660 --> 00:00:30.859 and nearly 1 ,500 employees operating in Alberta's 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:34.320 oil sands region. Nicole and her colleagues have 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.119 built something remarkable. from a single bulldozer 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:40.020 and a devastating first year loss to a company 00:00:40.020 --> 00:00:42.299 that's been working with Canadian natural resources 00:00:42.299 --> 00:00:45.619 for 28 years, maintaining zero default performance 00:00:45.619 --> 00:00:48.320 while employing Indigenous workers from over 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.700 100 different First Nations across the country. 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.500 In December 2024 alone, she received personally 00:00:55.500 --> 00:01:00.200 the Order of Canada and collectively the ExxonMobil 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.259 International Diverse Supplier Award. A global 00:01:03.259 --> 00:01:05.819 recognition that the Boucher Group, earned by 00:01:05.819 --> 00:01:08.260 competing successfully, gains thousands of international 00:01:08.260 --> 00:01:12.060 contractors on service quality, safety, and operational 00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:15.879 performance. This conversation reflects resilience 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.620 and ambition. Nicole is one of the most successful 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:23.040 entrepreneurs in Canada. She's the CEO of this 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.579 business that she's built with her partner. And 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:31.780 she is an Indigenous female. She proves. Indigenous 00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:34.519 -led businesses succeed on merit, alliances, 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:36.980 and good partnership, which is good business 00:01:36.980 --> 00:01:41.819 for everyone. Let's dive in. Nicole Burke Boucher, 00:01:41.980 --> 00:01:44.840 the CEO of the Boucher Group. Thanks so much 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.780 for joining us, taking the time. Thanks for having 00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:52.099 me. Yes, wonderful to have you here. A great 00:01:52.099 --> 00:01:57.459 entrepreneur from Alberta in Canada. And your 00:01:57.459 --> 00:02:02.069 story, Nicole, is, I think, inspiring for all 00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:04.709 Canadians and I'm sure Indigenous people around 00:02:04.709 --> 00:02:08.210 the world. So we're very, very pleased to have 00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:11.250 you on our podcast. So Rob, why don't you kick 00:02:11.250 --> 00:02:14.990 things off? Sure, Nicole, maybe just start. You 00:02:14.990 --> 00:02:17.629 talk to us about where you are today. Where are 00:02:17.629 --> 00:02:20.759 you speaking to us from? Oh, yes. The sun is 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.599 shining and I'm sitting in my office, which is 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.500 the Boucher office on the Fort McKay Reserve. 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.939 It's called the Business Incubator Park and it's 00:02:30.939 --> 00:02:34.000 for their local entrepreneurs. And we have finally 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.360 had the privilege of building our very own building 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.759 about three years ago. And so I'm just looking 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.039 out at our yard right now and all the snow. It's 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.800 been rather cold up here, but we, yeah, just 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:46.400 looking at our fleet of equipment right now. 00:02:47.150 --> 00:02:49.689 Great. And can you help position that for our 00:02:49.689 --> 00:02:53.389 audience over here in London and Europe who probably 00:02:53.389 --> 00:02:56.229 haven't had the opportunity to visit your neighborhood? 00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:01.629 Fort Mackay itself is one of six First Nation 00:03:01.629 --> 00:03:06.449 communities in the heart of oil sands in northeastern 00:03:06.449 --> 00:03:10.509 Alberta within Canada. And you grew up not too 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:14.330 far from there. Tell us a little bit about... 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.039 where you were born. Sure, yeah. I was actually 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:20.699 born in the Northwest Territories, so even more 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:24.250 north. from here. So Northwest Territories is 00:03:24.250 --> 00:03:27.550 just north of Alberta in a small community called 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:31.509 Fort Smith. And my parents raised me and three 00:03:31.509 --> 00:03:34.830 sisters on the trap line in the Wood Buffalo 00:03:34.830 --> 00:03:37.389 National Park, which is in between Alberta and 00:03:37.389 --> 00:03:39.949 Northwest Territories for the first five years 00:03:39.949 --> 00:03:42.770 of my life. And then we moved into a small community, 00:03:42.969 --> 00:03:45.729 Fort Smith, to go to school. And then later on, 00:03:45.729 --> 00:03:48.129 when my dad was offered a position within the 00:03:48.129 --> 00:03:51.620 oil sands industry in a larger city, called Fort 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:55.280 McMurray, just south of Fort Smith. He relocated 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.699 our family, very young family, down to Fort McMurray, 00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:01.759 and he took a job with a company called Syncrude 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.099 Canada, which was mining in early mining stages 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:09.180 within the Wood Buffalo area within northeastern 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:12.810 Alberta. And I'm curious about this raised on 00:04:12.810 --> 00:04:15.889 the trap lines. Just explain what you mean by 00:04:15.889 --> 00:04:21.069 that. Indigenous people within Canada in our 00:04:21.069 --> 00:04:24.569 early days, that's how we made a living is living 00:04:24.569 --> 00:04:28.329 on a trap line and trapping the animals. And 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:31.089 we would sell portions, usually the furs from 00:04:31.089 --> 00:04:34.040 the animals. And that's how we would. you know, 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:37.360 bring in revenue and income as a family. And 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.300 so as that way of life started to go away, many 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:42.680 of our Indigenous people, my father included, 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:45.779 really tried to hang on to that wonderful traditional 00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:48.839 way of life and still raise their families. Today, 00:04:48.939 --> 00:04:52.060 there's very few families that actually make 00:04:52.060 --> 00:04:54.459 a living on the trap line because, you know, 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:57.639 the fur trade is just non -existent anymore and 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:00.959 it's really hard to get money from it. So many 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.740 of us practice traditional activities just because 00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:06.199 it's what we enjoy. As Indigenous people, we 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:08.459 love to be out in the lands. We love to be within 00:05:08.459 --> 00:05:11.259 nature. It's kind of what brings us back, rooted 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.600 into our communities. And, you know, today my 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:17.079 husband and I and our children practice our traditional 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:20.779 way of life and we have our own trapline. Okay. 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:27.579 And what sort of animals are found along your 00:05:27.579 --> 00:05:30.040 trapline? You know, Canada's a huge country. 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.240 Oh, yeah. So in the Wood Buffalo National Park, 00:05:33.379 --> 00:05:37.000 buffalo. And they're very difficult to come by. 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:40.079 They're almost extinct. So a lot harder to come 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.860 by. So when you do, it's a very sacred moment, 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:46.839 actually, to be able to see them. We have a lot 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.420 of moose. We have caribou. We have a lot of deer. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.480 We have rabbits. And the list goes on and on 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.360 up here. There is a lot. Wow. So I remember growing 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:00.959 up in Manitoba, and I used to go to Riding Mountain 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.569 National Park. And there's buffalo. up there 00:06:04.569 --> 00:06:07.050 on the plateau. And to see those animals is always 00:06:07.050 --> 00:06:11.250 beautiful. And whenever, you know, from a kid, 00:06:11.290 --> 00:06:13.730 we go out to see them without having the deep 00:06:13.730 --> 00:06:16.370 appreciation that an indigenous person has for 00:06:16.370 --> 00:06:18.410 what those animals mean. But when you see them, 00:06:18.529 --> 00:06:22.310 even without that, you feel that there's something 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:26.829 very powerful and life -giving when you see them. 00:06:26.910 --> 00:06:31.009 You just think, tread carefully. Not because 00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:33.709 you're afraid of them, but because of... They 00:06:33.709 --> 00:06:36.730 represent something. I think life -giving is 00:06:36.730 --> 00:06:39.810 a great way of putting it because years ago when 00:06:39.810 --> 00:06:43.589 we lived on a trap line and that was your way 00:06:43.589 --> 00:06:46.069 of living, every animal that you came across 00:06:46.069 --> 00:06:50.370 provided so much to the family. So whether it 00:06:50.370 --> 00:06:53.029 was the fur for the warmth or the meat for the 00:06:53.029 --> 00:06:56.410 food, but you didn't put any animal to waste. 00:06:56.410 --> 00:07:01.620 And even today, when we go to look to hunt, As 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:04.420 a family, you know, in our culture, you take 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:09.339 exactly only what you need. And you also share 00:07:09.339 --> 00:07:11.120 with the rest of the community. You share with 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.079 your elders. You share with your other family 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.899 members. So you may have one or two hunters within 00:07:15.899 --> 00:07:18.819 the family, but they definitely spread the wealth 00:07:18.819 --> 00:07:23.300 around amongst all families. It's such a beautiful 00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:26.839 part of the country. And my daughter taught for 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.819 a few years in Hay River. Nice. Not too far from 00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:33.759 there. I got the chance to visit there a few 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.779 times and was always struck by the beauty. Can 00:07:38.779 --> 00:07:43.220 you talk a little bit about your education and 00:07:43.220 --> 00:07:50.620 how did you end up starting running Boucher Group? 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:56.040 Sure. As I said, my father moved us down to Fort 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.060 McMurray, and it's interesting, I kind of chuckle 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:03.019 when I hear his story, because he ran a taxi 00:08:03.019 --> 00:08:05.620 service with his family when he moved us into 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:07.779 Fort Smith, a very small northern community, 00:08:07.939 --> 00:08:11.519 and he was called by Sincrude, and he tells the 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:15.060 story not once, not twice, but three times. Syncrude 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.100 Canada at the time was standing up their oil 00:08:18.100 --> 00:08:21.920 sands operations and they really wanted to work 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:24.720 with Indigenous people from the region, from 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:28.759 the First Nations around them, in order to build 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:34.279 skills and help provide for communities. And 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.980 so they called him a few times. And at the very 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:40.639 end, he decided to come. And he says, I decided 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:45.460 to move south with my daughters to the big city 00:08:45.460 --> 00:08:48.059 of Fort McMurray because I really just wanted 00:08:48.059 --> 00:08:50.059 to provide them with a different way of life 00:08:50.059 --> 00:08:53.480 that wasn't as hard as how he had it raised on 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.559 a trapline trying to make ends meet. And really 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.840 survival was what you put in physically out in 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.720 the cold every day. And so he wanted to give 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.639 us an opportunity. for education. So he moved 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.240 the four girls and my mom down to the Fort McMurray 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.899 area. And Fort McMurray was home and it's been 00:09:11.899 --> 00:09:16.820 home since. I went to elementary and high school 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:19.539 here in Fort McMurray. And then a little later 00:09:19.539 --> 00:09:23.059 on. I was able to relocate to his home community, 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.980 Fort Chippewan. Fort Chippewan is on the lakes 00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:30.200 of Apabasca. It's a fly -in only community on 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.279 the Canadian Shield. It's beautiful. And that's 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:36.620 where his First Nation was from. And so my parents 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:40.159 relocated up there, back up north, in between 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.899 Fort Smith and Fort McMurray. And I relocated 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:45.860 with them and worked a bit and upgraded my high 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:49.379 school education and then moved to Edmonton, 00:09:49.379 --> 00:09:54.179 Alberta. to take some computer classes. I ended 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:57.740 up with a diploma in computer information systems 00:09:57.740 --> 00:10:01.279 and then moved back to Fort McMurray and started 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:04.120 my career as a student within Syncrude Canada, 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:07.799 where my father used to work, in their public 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:10.620 affairs department. And that was my first kind 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:14.519 of brush of working. right within Oilsense and 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.059 later on started my own consulting company where 00:10:18.059 --> 00:10:22.620 I provided stakeholder database solutions to 00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:26.100 industry companies in the area as a way to contact 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:29.299 key Indigenous and governmental stakeholders 00:10:29.299 --> 00:10:33.240 with information about their projects. And then 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.679 that kind of grew into eventually what worked 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.360 out to be a full -time job back in oil sands 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.559 with a company called Shell Canada. And within 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:45.259 Shell's company, I was an advisor in their external 00:10:45.259 --> 00:10:48.700 affairs department. And during that time, my 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:51.000 husband -to -be, David, who's from the community 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.899 of Fort Mackay, First Nation, worked at the same 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:58.179 site. And that's how we met each other. And we 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:00.799 both had very full -time jobs. And David happened 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.860 to have a very small company called Candave Contracting 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:06.000 on the side with a couple of pieces of equipment 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.279 that he ran at a new exploration site that was 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.120 called Canadian Natural Resources Horizon Project 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.500 just north of Fort McKay. So we were across the 00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:18.259 river on this great big site called Albion run 00:11:18.259 --> 00:11:20.940 by Shell Canada. I worked directly for Shell 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:23.080 and he worked for Fort McKay Group of Companies. 00:11:24.990 --> 00:11:27.649 Work across the river at the Canadian National 00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:29.649 Site through his two little pieces of equipment 00:11:29.649 --> 00:11:32.350 started to become more and more full time. And 00:11:32.350 --> 00:11:35.470 I found myself diving into the books, into the 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:37.610 safety side of things, into the payroll side 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:40.570 of things. And work just became very full time 00:11:40.570 --> 00:11:42.429 for both of us. So we had our full time jobs 00:11:42.429 --> 00:11:45.210 during the day, weekends and evenings. And we 00:11:45.210 --> 00:11:49.470 had children became also very full time. So we 00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:51.570 made the very hard decision, as entrepreneurs 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:54.529 have to do along their journey, to just jump 00:11:54.529 --> 00:11:57.629 in with both feet. And we gave up our full time 00:11:57.629 --> 00:11:59.970 positions. And we thought, you know, we talked 00:11:59.970 --> 00:12:03.309 to ourselves about what is the absolute worst 00:12:03.309 --> 00:12:05.789 that could happen if we did this. And we figured 00:12:05.789 --> 00:12:07.629 the worst that could happen is we'd fall flat 00:12:07.629 --> 00:12:11.309 on our face. And we felt we were fairly employable. 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:15.389 So we would go get jobs of equal back. And you 00:12:15.389 --> 00:12:17.889 know what, we've never looked back since. So 00:12:17.889 --> 00:12:19.590 what years are we talking about when you made 00:12:19.590 --> 00:12:25.600 that decision? 2004. 2004 and 2005 were the first, 00:12:25.700 --> 00:12:29.240 the big winter season. And winter season was 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.100 really important to our business because that's 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:33.620 where exploration was done. Because you have 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:36.779 to have the cold weather to freeze down winter 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:40.000 roads to move drill rigs in to be able to drill 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.740 for the materials to then assess the level of 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:48.629 bitumen within the ground. Right. What a story. 00:12:48.710 --> 00:12:51.669 A few questions going back. Syncrude Canada, 00:12:51.809 --> 00:12:53.549 when you talked about your father and they're 00:12:53.549 --> 00:12:56.470 looking to engage with the local community, was 00:12:56.470 --> 00:12:59.389 Syncrude Canada, I guess it was one of the few 00:12:59.389 --> 00:13:03.149 enlightened corporations in those days who knew 00:13:03.149 --> 00:13:05.330 the importance of working with the Indigenous 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.269 people? Yes, they definitely took a lead role 00:13:09.269 --> 00:13:11.690 in our region. And of course, Syncrude is now 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:16.519 Suncor. energy across Canada. But they definitely 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.159 always took a leadership role with working with 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:21.860 Indigenous people and Indigenous communities. 00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:25.159 It was a priority for them when it was a priority 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:29.279 for nobody else. So we're very lucky. Yes. And 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.759 just fast forwarding to, you're talking about, 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:33.840 you know, in the winter, that's when you can 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.879 bring in the heavy equipment and the drill rigs. 00:13:36.100 --> 00:13:39.399 Does the drilling also take place in the winter 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:42.019 or it's set up for the... summer and then the 00:13:42.019 --> 00:13:43.840 drilling takes place in the summer when perhaps 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.539 the land is a bit easier to... Oh, it takes place 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:49.710 in the winter. Yeah. So we have these condensed 00:13:49.710 --> 00:13:52.509 exploration programs that we have to do because 00:13:52.509 --> 00:13:55.809 the land out here is so soft. There's a lot of 00:13:55.809 --> 00:13:58.629 muskeg areas. So you wait for the winter. You 00:13:58.629 --> 00:14:00.850 actually put water on the roads and freeze down 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:03.330 the lines. And then you open up the roads and 00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:05.350 you build pads for the drill rigs to then come 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:07.309 behind you and sit on. And then they sit there 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.629 and drill for three, four months in the winter 00:14:09.629 --> 00:14:12.710 and get what they need to then go back in the 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:18.169 summer and to analyze and assess. Wow. What a 00:14:18.169 --> 00:14:20.850 story. And I'm just curious what became of that 00:14:20.850 --> 00:14:26.870 exploration site at that time. We did so many. 00:14:27.070 --> 00:14:31.990 Yeah, we did. Well, CNRL now is, I think, the 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.809 largest. producer in Canada. We're still on the 00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:38.129 site. We've been on the site since day one. It's 00:14:38.129 --> 00:14:41.789 been over 25 years we've been there. Dave's had 00:14:41.789 --> 00:14:45.029 his company 28 years ago. He started it. And 00:14:45.029 --> 00:14:47.330 then I joined a few years after he started it. 00:14:47.450 --> 00:14:52.289 And upon joining the organization, Dave signed 00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:54.529 over half the company to me right from the get 00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:57.269 -go. So it's very much been a true partnership, 00:14:57.649 --> 00:15:03.080 Boucher, 50 % owners each. and a lot of challenges 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.299 along the way. Yes. And not only are you one 00:15:07.299 --> 00:15:10.600 of the great entrepreneurs in Canada and your 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:14.539 husband as well, you built a very sizable business. 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.200 I think it's 170 million plus in terms of revenue. 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.200 You were also a woman and indigenous at a time 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.179 that was not exactly the role model for having 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:29.639 a successful career. So you've obviously demonstrated 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:33.480 to a number of people, Don't judge before you 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:39.879 see. 100%. Yeah, I say that when I entered in 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:45.559 the oil sands area and took on this role, I didn't 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.799 even know what the difference was between each 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.720 piece of equipment. So it was a huge learning 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:55.000 curve for me, one that I was... you know bound 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.419 and determined to figure out it did not come 00:15:58.419 --> 00:16:02.480 with a lot of listening learning and diving in 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.559 and each day you know brought its its own challenges 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.039 but equally as so its own learnings and it was 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.779 very rewarding and always has been each day is 00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:15.460 very rewarding for me as an entrepreneur i learned 00:16:15.460 --> 00:16:19.139 a lot from both My husband, David, and my father 00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:21.879 entered the business too. So he eventually left 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.600 his term with Synchro Canada and came to work 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.580 for us directly. And so between the two of them 00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:33.179 being longtime operators themselves, I was just 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:36.000 like a sponge taking it all in out there, putting 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.399 on steel toe boots and a hard hat, which I had 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:42.379 never done before. And then just jumping in with 00:16:42.379 --> 00:16:45.379 both feet and doing what I can to fill the gaps 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.580 and help out. till I finally established myself 00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:52.519 as more of a CEO position within the organization. 00:16:52.899 --> 00:16:55.500 It didn't happen overnight. A lot of challenges 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.679 along the way, but just taking it all in and 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.820 learning and a completely 100 % self -taught 00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:04.940 in business. Fantastic. Give us an idea of what 00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:07.970 the business looks like today. Yes, exactly. 00:17:08.069 --> 00:17:12.150 Yeah, I'd love to. We just closed the 2025 year 00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:17.829 at just over $200 million and just under 1 ,400 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:21.529 team members within our organization. We have 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:23.869 a diverse business of three companies. So we 00:17:23.869 --> 00:17:26.289 continue our work on that civil side of things 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:29.009 with Boucher Contracting, which is our road maintenance 00:17:29.009 --> 00:17:31.710 and civil projects business. And then along the 00:17:31.710 --> 00:17:33.730 way, we stood up a business called Boucher Site 00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:36.210 Services, which is our integrated facility maintenance 00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:39.009 company. So we have a lot of tradespeople working 00:17:39.009 --> 00:17:41.769 within buildings on sites, helping with the buildings 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:45.210 maintenance and doing project work as well, like 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:47.589 dorm renovations for the camps up here. And then 00:17:47.589 --> 00:17:49.809 more recently, we started a third division, which 00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:53.190 we call Boucher Logistics. We have bus drivers 00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:56.349 working at site. We do low bedding services for 00:17:56.349 --> 00:18:01.609 different clientele. We have 39 % Indigenous 00:18:01.609 --> 00:18:05.089 employees. And the thing I'm most excited about 00:18:05.089 --> 00:18:07.279 are the status. I'm most excited about is of 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.920 our just under 1 ,400 employees, 41 % of our 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.099 leaders are Indigenous. We represent over 99 00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:18.200 Indigenous communities across Canada. So I know 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.180 we're about 400 pieces of heavy equipment. And, 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.660 you know, we spend a lot of time in community 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:26.799 giving back as well, which I'm also very proud 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:31.250 of. Very, very impressive figures. But as you 00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:33.769 said, you've worked very hard over the years 00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:36.250 from the get -go. And I think the first couple 00:18:36.250 --> 00:18:39.849 of years were a bit challenging. And you had 00:18:39.849 --> 00:18:41.990 talked about, you know, what do you do if it 00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:44.009 doesn't work? Do you want to talk a little bit 00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:45.769 about that? Because I think it's important for 00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:48.190 our listeners. You know, all entrepreneurs know, 00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:50.670 you know, it's not an easy road. It looks like 00:18:50.670 --> 00:18:53.769 it in the end when you're successful and people 00:18:53.769 --> 00:18:57.049 forget about the hardship and sacrifice along 00:18:57.049 --> 00:18:59.319 the way. Would you share a bit more of that, 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:02.019 please? 100%. Yeah. The first year of business, 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:05.960 when I said we both quit our jobs and dived in, 00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:09.039 we barely seen our kids. Dave missed Christmas 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:13.880 that year. your chief cook and bottle washer 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.680 for sure as as entrepreneurs you do everything 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.299 to save money you're trying to learn the business 00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:22.099 you're trying to learn the commercial side of 00:19:22.099 --> 00:19:24.759 things what a contract means how do you get within 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:28.059 a contract how do you get more work how do you 00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:30.420 manage your expenses you don't pay them out right 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:33.180 away we didn't have a full -time bookkeeper we 00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:36.539 worked extremely hard we were exhausted we closed 00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.099 our year end in march at the time was our year 00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:42.130 end and we were on we had gone married through 00:19:42.130 --> 00:19:44.329 that first year and we were on our honeymoon 00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:47.109 in Mexico and I knew our year -end was coming 00:19:47.109 --> 00:19:49.269 through and I was so excited because we had such 00:19:49.269 --> 00:19:53.000 a challenging first year and I knew how hard 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.000 we all worked. And so I said, well, I'm going 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.140 to go to the computer and log in to see how we 00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:01.819 did because the auditors were sending me the 00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:05.019 results. And I just scrolled to the bottom because 00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:07.299 I didn't know enough on how to read financial 00:20:07.299 --> 00:20:08.980 statements, but I knew the bottom line would 00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:11.640 tell me. And there was a great big red minus 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.500 $250 ,000 at the very bottom. And my heart sank. 00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:18.819 And I just thought, what did we do wrong? Right. 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.420 So we ended up a very hard year. We thought we 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:26.420 were doing really good month on month. Our accountant 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:28.559 or bookkeeper at the time was telling us we were. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:34.079 And we ended up at a $250 ,000 loss. Wow. And 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.980 that's in 1999 or $2 ,000, right? Yeah, that 00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:43.539 was in the 2005 year. Yeah, $250 ,000. So you 00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:45.799 know what? I think that first year of loss taught 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:49.710 me one huge thing, and that was discipline. And 00:20:49.710 --> 00:20:55.230 it was discipline around growth, discipline around 00:20:55.230 --> 00:20:58.829 knowing your own business. I think I went in 00:20:58.829 --> 00:21:01.670 thinking, oh, well, the bookkeeper knows the 00:21:01.670 --> 00:21:04.490 numbers. I don't have to worry about that. And 00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:07.609 the mechanics know the maintenance. I don't have 00:21:07.609 --> 00:21:10.029 to worry about that. But the truth is, as an 00:21:10.029 --> 00:21:12.829 entrepreneur, you have to make every aspect of 00:21:12.829 --> 00:21:14.930 your business your business, right? You have 00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:17.730 to know a little bit about all of it. And you 00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:20.849 have to, you know, follow for me as a female, 00:21:21.069 --> 00:21:24.349 I've learned to follow my intuition, to be honest 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:26.890 with you, because most often than not, it is 00:21:26.890 --> 00:21:29.650 completely always dead on and right. And every 00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:32.289 time I see myself veering away from that and 00:21:32.289 --> 00:21:34.430 trying to live in a different world, like as 00:21:34.430 --> 00:21:37.190 an Indigenous female in a construction environment. 00:21:38.190 --> 00:21:40.829 I spent the first few years trying to measure 00:21:40.829 --> 00:21:43.329 up and be like the guys, the construction guy. 00:21:43.769 --> 00:21:46.250 And it just wasn't serving me. I was struggling. 00:21:46.509 --> 00:21:49.029 And it's really when, as a female, I just leaned 00:21:49.029 --> 00:21:52.329 into what I brought to the table, which I think 00:21:52.329 --> 00:21:55.349 is that discipline. It was the empathy. It was 00:21:55.349 --> 00:21:57.849 the intuition. And the more I just started to 00:21:57.849 --> 00:22:01.549 listen to myself and go with it. It was a little 00:22:01.549 --> 00:22:03.869 against the grain in kind of a guy's construction 00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:06.950 world, but it's worked out well at the end of 00:22:06.950 --> 00:22:11.390 the day, I think. Quite clearly. So I'm quite 00:22:11.390 --> 00:22:14.670 proud of what we've built along the way. We should 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:16.430 probably go back and interview some of those 00:22:16.430 --> 00:22:19.529 long -serving employees to see how they've seen 00:22:19.529 --> 00:22:22.950 the leadership evolve in the company. And boy, 00:22:23.150 --> 00:22:27.390 maybe they underestimated what would happen. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.579 That is something. And what a surprise, though. 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:34.440 You're on your break. You've worked hard for 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.599 the year. And you thought in the middle of your 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:40.460 nice end of your honeymoon vacation, oh, I'll 00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:43.240 just go check the numbers. So hopefully you were 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.859 able to at least celebrate and overcome that 00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:50.519 loss somehow and enjoy the few days you had left 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:54.880 on the warm weather before you came back to rebuild 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.740 the business, right? Right, exactly. We managed. 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.980 Yes, great. And I suppose you don't get through 00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:06.759 periods of financial loss or other setbacks without 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:09.980 some important partners and supports along the 00:23:09.980 --> 00:23:13.079 way. Have you had some key partners who've helped 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.319 make the business as successful as it's become? 00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:19.779 Yeah, most definitely. We're quite lucky to have 00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:23.420 Fort McKay First Nation and their group of companies, 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:27.519 which earlier employed my husband, David. uh 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.359 support us along the way they helped us uh in 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.160 any way they could a specific gentleman by the 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.779 name of jim carbry and of course at the time 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:39.500 there was a chief by the name of chief jim boucher 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.039 and together they were a bit of a team building 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.440 the fort mckay group up on its own at all the 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.859 oil sands sites here. But they definitely lent 00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:51.759 a hand. They were our fuel provider for all of 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.619 our equipment. And so they allowed us to go extra 00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:58.660 months without paying them, coming into that 00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:02.500 first lost year, in order to kind of gain our 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:06.059 revenue back up. And then alongside them was 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.500 this phenomenal company called Finning Canada. 00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:11.500 And they provided us all of our yellow iron, 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:14.279 our heavy gear. We're still with both today, 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.279 but Finning did the same thing. They allowed 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.819 us to spread out our payments amongst several 00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:23.539 months in order for us to get caught up. And 00:24:23.539 --> 00:24:26.859 then we had a local bank, the Alberta Treasury 00:24:26.859 --> 00:24:30.460 Branch, step in. And so those three partners 00:24:30.460 --> 00:24:33.730 really got us by that. coming out of that really 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:36.950 hard year they were able to really help us turn 00:24:36.950 --> 00:24:40.089 things around and give us a little leeway we 00:24:40.089 --> 00:24:42.609 never asked for anything for free we just asked 00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:44.390 that you know can you give us an extra couple 00:24:44.390 --> 00:24:47.089 months to pay you and they they they were able 00:24:47.089 --> 00:24:50.009 to do that and so we kind of went back in and 00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:52.509 learned what we had done wrong and you know there 00:24:52.509 --> 00:24:55.589 was a lot of expenses that we didn't track po's 00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:58.160 against and so it was like i said it was a really 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.420 hard lesson but with the right partners and then 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:02.960 i have to say partners are we consider our clients 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.579 our partners you know we started at cnrl and 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:07.599 we're still canadian natural resources at the 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.740 horizon site and 28 years later and we're still 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:15.819 at that site same goes for sunk or energy and 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:18.720 imperial oil we're still at all their sites so 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.579 it's really nice it's really nice to be able 00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:25.019 to see your clients as partners as well And is 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:27.680 the business focused around oil sands sites? 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.559 Is that your specialty or is there enough work 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.480 or do you see branching out beyond that, those 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.660 types of? The business has definitely organically 00:25:37.660 --> 00:25:40.960 grown through the oil sands clients and also 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.980 the city of Fort McMurray through what we call 00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:46.220 the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo. We've 00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:48.519 been able to do road maintenance services for 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.099 them as well, predominantly within our rural 00:25:51.099 --> 00:25:56.220 communities. And then on a growth. We would like 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.980 to grow the integrated facility maintenance side 00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:01.599 of the business outside of Wood Buffalo. Last 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.960 year, we were just able to get a footprint in 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.339 the Edmonton, Alberta area through facility maintenance, 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:11.359 through EPCOR Energy, and also with the government 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.740 directly. So we are doing some smaller facility 00:26:14.740 --> 00:26:16.700 maintenance work right now in the Edmonton area. 00:26:16.900 --> 00:26:19.680 And we'll continue to grow the civil projects 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.119 end because there is a lot of work to be done 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:24.190 still here in Wood Buffalo on the civil. end, 00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:27.470 especially when you take a mine site to closure 00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:30.190 and you look at the amount of reclamation activities 00:26:30.190 --> 00:26:32.950 that have to be done. So I think we're pretty 00:26:32.950 --> 00:26:35.470 anchored in with Buffalo on the civil end, but 00:26:35.470 --> 00:26:37.430 I think there's a lot of opportunity on a facility 00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:39.690 maintenance end to grow across Canada, maybe 00:26:39.690 --> 00:26:43.069 even one day. If we come back to something you 00:26:43.069 --> 00:26:45.710 talked about earlier about bringing your own 00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:49.150 intuition and women's intuition and your skills 00:26:49.150 --> 00:26:50.849 and experience that you had in the business. 00:26:51.819 --> 00:26:58.339 close to 1 ,500 employees, 40 % Indigenous, close 00:26:58.339 --> 00:27:01.039 to 100 First Nations from across the country. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:04.099 How do you translate some of those values? And 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:07.079 I've heard you mention before seven sacred teachings 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.420 in today -to -day operational performance. Can 00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:12.039 you talk a little bit about the culture of the 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:13.759 organization? Because that's what makes business 00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.779 a success, right? You don't earn your revenue 00:27:16.779 --> 00:27:21.000 without having something unique that differentiates 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.420 you. 100%. And I will say for the first half 00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:28.039 of our life as a business, it still was learning 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.319 and survival and gaining ground and gaining market 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.980 share. And then this interesting time came for 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.619 us as Indigenous entrepreneurs along the same 00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:40.359 time as Truth and Reconciliation was starting 00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:43.220 to really stand up throughout Canada. where we 00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:45.759 had this phenomenal opportunity to embrace our 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:47.960 Indigenous culture and bring it within the business. 00:27:48.220 --> 00:27:50.519 I think it was something we probably already 00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:54.680 did, but we just didn't label it. And so we decided 00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:57.059 to start with the seven sacred teachings. And 00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:59.099 in our culture, it's the seven sacred teachings 00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:01.900 or the seven grandfather teachings and their 00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:07.359 virtues that through animals are passed down. 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.740 by generations and in our culture we talk about 00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:13.200 seven generations before and seven generations 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.720 after and we pass down these teachings and so 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.160 we decide to bring the teachings into the organization 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.259 as a bit of a foundation for how we operate our 00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:26.880 business so we have teachings such as the wolf 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:32.220 teaching the wolf goes with humility and you 00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:35.880 know it in our business it's important to stay 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.759 humble It's important to stay grounded in community. 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.900 It's important to never forget about who you 00:28:41.900 --> 00:28:44.019 are and where you came from and the traditions 00:28:44.019 --> 00:28:46.299 that you carry as Indigenous people. So we brought 00:28:46.299 --> 00:28:48.819 that within the business. And then there are 00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:51.539 other teachings such as courage and truth and 00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:54.799 honesty. And so that became kind of a guiding 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.519 principle system for our business. And that really 00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:59.960 is how we've always delivered our business anyways, 00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:03.000 right, is through honesty, through truth, through 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.259 trust, transparency, integrity. So it was so 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:11.160 wonderful to be able to bring our culture in 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.099 to something that we were already doing and start 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:17.920 to communicate with our non -Indigenous employees 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.480 what it means. And I think it's created this 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.119 great work environment where people feel like 00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.500 they have a larger purpose than just working 00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:30.039 in the oil sands. But there is a larger purpose 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:35.420 at play there. Yes. Thank you to Nicole Burke 00:29:35.420 --> 00:29:37.880 -Boucher for sharing your insights with us. And 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.220 thank you for viewing and listening. Mark your 00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:44.019 calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking 00:29:44.019 --> 00:29:46.980 place on the 8th of April. Be sure to share, 00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:49.180 subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite 00:29:49.180 --> 00:29:52.240 podcast channel. Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:53.420 Until next time.