Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNacca. Today on Drumbeats, my co -host
Rob Branton and I are joined today by Don Mattaby
-Leach, Chair of the National Indigenous Economic
Development Board and one of the most influential
architects of Indigenous economic policy and
finance in Canada. Over nearly four decades,
Don has helped scale a First Nation -owned financial
institution from a $150 ,000 loan fund to more
than $170 million, deployed across 4 ,000 Indigenous
-led businesses spanning energy, infrastructure,
natural resources, and international trade. As
chair, she led the development of Canada's National
Indigenous Economic Strategy, a framework authored
by Indigenous leaders and national organizations,
setting out 107 calls to economic prosperity
now shaping government policy, corporate procurement,
and institutional capital allocation. In this
conversation, we explore why Indigenous partnerships
are no longer peripheral but central to successful
investment outcomes. how equity participation
is transforming the economics of significant
projects, and what senior decision makers need
to understand about Indigenous -led capital,
governance, and long -term value creation in
Canada. Don Matabe -Leach, it's great to see
you. It's been a while since our paths crossed.
I'm grateful you've set aside a few minutes so
we can catch up. Well, I'm very honoured to be
here too, and finally to have a good chat with
you. This would be great to have a good visit
today. Great. Welcome, Don. We're very pleased
to have you speak to our audience over here in
the UK and beyond, talking about some of the
opportunities and challenges with Indigenous
peoples and companies in Canada. You've had such
a varied career, Don, and you've been at the
forefront of so many. on the economic development
file for Indigenous people in Canada. But maybe
for our audience, just tell us a little bit about
your background, where you grew up, where you're
talking to us from today. Well, thank you very
much. I'm honoured again to participate in this
session, especially today as the... 10th anniversary
of the release of the Truth and Reconciliation
Commission. And, you know, that was an important
piece of work done here in Canada to really help
educate individuals on what has the, I guess
the legacy of the residential schools here and
the impacts that it's had, especially in the
economic development side, which is the area
that I get to work in. And I'm speaking to you
today from beautiful Manitoulin Island, which
is in, I always say, the center of Canada, because
we're located in northern Ontario. And I am in
my First Nation community, which is Ondek Omnikani.
In our language, that means Crow Haven, where
the crows live. And true to its name, we do have...
I think the smartest bird you could find is a
crow. They seem to be able to communicate really
well. And so it's really beautiful to often see
them and learn from them and the surroundings.
But Manitoulin Island is named Manitou is the
creator. And it's the place where the creator
chose as his home. where all of our beautiful
medicines are grown naturally here. We have beautiful
clear waters surrounding this island. You could
look 70 feet into the water and see the ground.
It's so beautiful. It's an amazing place to live.
And, you know, I have a chance to travel the
world and I could kiss the ground when I come
home. It's so beautiful here. But I've been very
privileged. over my career to work for my people.
And I did work in Toronto years ago as I worked
for, I was a paralegal at Faskin, the law firm
there. And I also ended up working for the federal
government as well while I was there. Then I
moved home and started doing consulting and I
was hired to set up our own financial institution.
And so I did the feasibility study and business
plan and funding applications and started up
the Wabatek Business Development Corporation.
What years are we talking about? We're talking
about back in 1987. And so I did a lot of that
work and I helped them to try to hire or put
together all the information they needed to hire
an executive director or general manager. And
so they had a set of interviews, but they came
back to me and they asked me if I would run this
for a little while instead. And it's going to
be pretty close to 40 years that I've been running
our own First Nation -owned financial institution.
We started out with a little loan fund of only
$150 ,000, and we're past $170 million in loans
and investments now. Wow. We're about 4 ,000
business projects in northeastern Ontario. And
so I've been so fortunate to work with our business
people in every sector you could think of. And
because of that work, And getting to know construction,
tourism, forestry, aquaculture and commercial
fisheries and learning about all these businesses,
oftentimes I was asked to speak and advocate
on behalf of these business sectors for our people.
And that's led me to become the chair of the
National Indigenous Economic... Development Board,
which is a government -appointed board. I've
been on that board for a lot of years, and I
was appointed chair back in 2021. I served as
the vice chair for many years, and I'm on probably
about six boards now, currently publicly traded,
as well as crown agency boards. some not -for
-profits, all related to helping bring the Indigenous
voice to those levels. So that's kind of my background
and career. Very impressive. Thank you. Yeah,
I think it's fantastic. You've had such an impact
in so many different organizations, but you get
to do it all from your home First Nation. A great
testament to you that so many different organizations
have wanted you to be a part. I know you're on
TC Energy's board, Desnede, out of Saskatchewan,
the Development Corp, and so many others. So
maybe talk about the National Economic, the Indigenous
Economic Development Board and some of the work
you've done there. Yes, well, you know, I'm very
proud of The fact that I get to work alongside
some of Canada's foremost business, economic
and community leaders and have traveled across
the country because we like to be in community
when we're meeting with people to learn firsthand
about the issues that they all deal with. For
example, we'll go to Atlantic and learn all about
fisheries there. We've gone to central Canada
to see some of the amazing urban reserve developments
that are taking place and generating significant
revenues for the First Nations who own those
urban reserves. We've been to definitely... Alberta,
we look at resource development and learn so
much about that and all the issues and how to
better engage and include Indigenous people in
these sectors. Our board has been instrumental
in working with the OECD to have the first ever
study done by the OECD on Indigenous economic
development. So we worked with them. Back in,
started in 2017 and launched the first ever global
report on Indigenous people and economic development
in two years later in 2019. And then we had three
country reports, including Canada, Australia
and Sweden. And since then, I've been working
with them on the mining regions reports as well.
And ensuring that we have an Indigenous perspective
added to those reports. So, this is because of
the work of the National Indigenous Economic
Development Board. And the other significant,
two other significant pieces of work is that
every three to four years, we issue our National
Indigenous Economic Progress Report. It's sort
of like a state of the Indigenous Nation report
that we produce. And that's always often quoted
by other studies. So it's on our website as well.
We were very instrumental in implementing one
of the OECD recommendations in the Canada report
was to develop a national Indigenous economic
strategy for Canada. And this report was done
and penned exclusively by Indigenous leaders
from more than 25 different Indigenous national
organizations. worked together on this and I'm
very proud of what we produced and you can find
this strategy at niestrategy .ca. It has four
pathways that we look at for Indigenous inclusion
and Indigenous economic reconciliation. These
four pathways are people, land, finance and infrastructure.
And we have 107 calls to economic prosperity
set out there. We set up a new institute at First
Nations University of Canada to monitor the implementation
of the strategy. And we're hoping to produce
a report in 2027 on which elements have been
acted upon in terms of the calls to economic
prosperity. We know that there's been different
governments, institutions, even our own people
implementing components of this strategy. And
so we're excited to see what that report shows
us in terms of, well, corporate Canada as well,
taking a hold of this strategy and taking sections
of it to implement as their own. So we're really
excited to see where this leads us. After three
years, Dawn, since the strategy was published,
what's your sense? Are you happy with what you're
seeing generally? Yes, we've seen companies say
that we're going to take these calls to economic
prosperity as our own and try to make some differences
there. We're seeing different levels of government
using the strategy to set out the work that they
do as well in their work with Indigenous peoples.
We have some really great examples already, like
the Regional Development Agency for Atlantic
Canada, ACOA. And I'm trying to think of what
ACOA stands for. Right now, it doesn't come to
mind, but they have really embraced this, especially
when it comes to procurement and the proactive
ways that they're engaging Indigenous businesses
to take on contracts for that federal development
agency in Canada. You know, that's one example.
We have other companies that are embracing the
report, too. and trying to support, for example,
financial literacy programs for Indigenous youth.
So that's pretty exciting to see. But there's
some really great things that are happening.
We're also seeing, you know, we're trying to
include institutions of justice and health as
well as education. And so they're looking at
taking on some of those calls to economic prosperity.
And as they do this, we're encouraging them to
report to the Institute at the First Nations
University of Canada so we can record all of
this and use these as great examples as to how
people are embracing Indigenous economic inclusion
across Canada. Fantastic. I mean, for 40 years,
you've been pushing, Don. to advance economic
development for Indigenous people. Over the last
10 years, you mentioned Truth and Reconciliation
Report 10 years ago. You must feel this is an
exciting time to see some of what you've been
pushing for come to fruition, even if there's
still a lot of work yet to be done. Absolutely.
You mentioned, or we talked a little bit about
my appointment to different boards and i'm so
glad to see many of the indigenous leaders that
i know are now serving on bank boards and publicly
traded company boards that's really where decisions
are made and where we can really impact indigenous
inclusion is on these boards and around the corporate
board table but also at levels of government
now you see Indigenous people in cabinet, the
federal cabinet. That's been an amazing thing
to see. You know, our governor general is Inuit
woman and all of these types of changes have
been very positive and are allowing our youth
to see our own people in these kinds of places
where they weren't before. And I think that this
is really, really important. We need to celebrate
that and showcase that more as well. But it's
really trying to make a difference in our communities
to make sure that we have the infrastructure
that we need, the basics. There's still a long
ways to go, especially in parts of Canada where
we still have many infrastructure needs, including
safe drinking water. I think we're close. to
realizing all of this but it's it's still a lot
of work to do uh making the business cases to
make these these things happen if you can have
a good drinking water in a mine in a remote northern
canada why can't we have that in a in a first
nation community or any community absolutely
right it's kind of You know, a fundamental, I
think there was something that just came out
in the past few days about some of these basic
services that it is mandatory. It's no longer
a choice that they must be provided. And the
federal government, who's been responsible in
some of these areas, has not delivered what it
is mandated to. Yeah, I think you're thinking
of, there were a couple of court decisions in
the last couple of weeks, Mark. Human rights
to water, to technology. You know, this is something.
And, you know, the great thing is we have leaders
that aren't waiting for government to make these
changes, too. You know, not every community has
that ability, but some communities do, and they're
just making it happen. But I'm really happy when
I see our friends in the Northwest Territories.
owning the broadband services there, you know,
taking on full ownership and making sure that
their communities are fully serviced. I think
that those are amazing steps forward. Or, you
know, when we have fishery disputes, well, communities
are buying the companies that wholesale and retail
fish globally. And I think that... You know,
being part owners, equity owners in a lot of
the initiatives is one of the solutions and some
of our communities are taking that on. And we've
seen now that we have a strong set of national
Indigenous organizations that can help support
all Indigenous communities to become more involved
in all of the different sectors. And we have
a National Aboriginal Fisheries Association,
for example. They are really doing some good
work and great advice to First Nations when it
comes to fisheries or forestry. The First Nation
Major Projects Coalition is doing great work
in advocating Indigenous involvement in major
energy and mining projects across the country.
National Indigenous Tourism Association that's
helping our businesses to not only welcome and
learn about our culture in Canada, but they're
also looking at exporting their knowledge across
the world as well in terms of how to host businesses
in Indigenous communities in the proper way.
Tourism used to be something that we were so
afraid of because it was exploiting us a lot.
But now when you take hold of it and manage it
yourself, you have that ability to share the
beautiful aspects of our culture. So we're lucky
in Canada that we have a great set of national
Indigenous organizations. What's the next big
priority to the national? Indigenous Economic
Development Board is working on. You mentioned
the scorecard coming in a report in 27. I know
procurement has been important, but what are
the top priorities in the next year? Well, you
know, one of the things that we've been advancing
as well is Canada looking to diversify its trade.
We know that Indigenous businesses are already
exporting, but they're also interested in diversifying
their trade. And we've been starting to build
a lot of relationships in Asia. And I think that
that's one of the areas where we're really looking
at. The Indo -Pacific in particular, I should
say, too, area that we're looking at for expanding
Indigenous trade. So when you look at the fact
that we have Canada's party to the Indigenous
people, people's economic trade and cooperation
arrangement, it's not a trade agreement, but
it's an arrangement between Australia, New Zealand.
Taiwan and Canada, the four countries have signed
on, and there's others that are looking to sign
on too, that we're also building Indigenous to
Indigenous trade. And I think that that's going
to be key. But I think that's one of the biggest
projects coming up. We've had some trade missions
already, especially for women, Indigenous women
in business. where we've showcased them at the
World Expo in Osaka, Japan, this past August.
And they had many business -to -business meetings
there, and some doors have opened for agreements
between Indigenous women in Canada with different
companies throughout Japan. And that was pretty
exciting, as well as there was a mission to Taiwan
and Vietnam. So those have taken place and some
doors have opened there too for some trade relationships.
And I believe there's some that are already being
acted on in the technology field. That's excellent.
There's a lot going on and you've seen this transition
and it must be, as Rob alluded to earlier, such
a game changer. But you're not only on the national
Indigenous economic. board, driving these initiatives,
but you're also in private enterprise, such as
TC Energy. You're on the board there. Can you
tell us a bit about that and what's working,
how you see the private sector having changed
as now you're participating in one of the largest
organizations, quite recognized? Well, thank
you for that. You know, it's been just over a
year that I've joined that board, and I could
say it's a two -way learning process because
there's many times I've joined boards in the
past, and I always find there's a lot to learn.
And I am learning so much about the energy sector
by being on that board. a lot of board experience
over the years. And I can apply that to, you
know, committees like governance and audit and
HR and safety and all of that. But learning about
the energy sector, it's a whole new language
and new acronyms you have to learn and the processes.
I would say my first year has been focused on
learning about the energy sector. But I also
feel that I'm teaching when I'm on that board.
So I'm teaching about why it's important to include
the Indigenous people and to respect their voices
when it comes to areas that we work in. And I
think that that... really helps to guide the
company to do their work with Indigenous people
in a more inclusive way and proper way, better
consultations and how to do that in a respectful
way. I think that's the most important thing.
So we've had lots of discussions and I'm very
happy to say that the full board and the CEO,
the executive leadership team are so receptive
to the advice that I've given and really receptive
to working with Indigenous people in a cooperative
way. So it's been pretty exciting to be around
that table and to work with a really good group
of people that are... are very open yes you seem
to be ahead of the curve all the time because
now prime minister carney is talking about canada
being an energy superpower and here you've been
at cc energy for the past year getting them ready
for the opportunity that lies in front of them
which has been reflected throughout your career
you're always just seem to be doing the groundwork
to let things go to the next level so congratulations
all canadians benefit from leadership like that
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate
that. And you're right. I don't know how these
opportunities come my way. I always think I'm
meant to be in certain places at certain times.
And it's really, really helped because I've,
you know, worked in the finance sector pretty
much my whole career in financing businesses,
especially, you know, commercial financing is
not as easy as retail. banking or financing.
And mind you, we're starting to get into, with
the organization I work with, we're looking at
providing housing mortgages because housing is
a real issue for First Nations people and, well,
Indigenous people, I should say, right across
the country. So I'm hopeful that, you know, the
work that we do in housing is going to make a
positive change. I could tell you that... Growing
up myself, there were times, and I'm the oldest
of 11, there were times when our family had no
home. And so it was an area where, you know,
definitely, I always say we were the poorest
of the poor in our community and my family. And
I think that's given me the ability to work hard,
thinking about the children who might be in my
same situation that I grew up in, to make a difference
for them, and to make sure that they have a shelter,
food, wherever they live in Canada. That's really
important to me, and that's always what's driven
me. And of course, You know, I've lived with
the fact that I went to Indian Day School myself
and my mother was in residential school. So I
know what the impacts of that have been on my
family and myself as well. But I've always used
all of that, anything negative, I use it as fuel
to make me do more to help. And so that's one
of the ways that I look at things. Sometimes
I feel that doors open for me because of that
background. It was a little bit tough in my formative
years and growing up. But I think that that's
given me the ability to have a lot of empathy
and knowledge about how to make changes and how
to make things better for Indigenous people.
Yeah, Dawn, you're such a role model for so many.
Who were the influential people in your life
that drove you and gave you that drive and ambition?
Well, of course, I always like to credit my mother
and my grandmother the most. And I think it's
been the women in my life because the women in
my life were never, didn't say that this is a...
a woman's job or a man's job. We did all the
work. I chopped wood. I hauled water. I grew
up in a house with no electricity. And it was
just two rooms, 11 kids. And so it was the fact
that we did. All the roles. And I saw my mother
do that. She could fix an oil stove herself,
taking the carburetor apart and fixing it. She
had no training in that, but she could do that.
So when I would see somebody able to do that,
I learned how to do that as well. And, you know,
I just feel that those were advantages I got
learning from these strong women. who could just
about do anything because they had to, you know,
out of necessity. But that really showed me that
there's nothing that we can't do. Well, you sure
have proved that, Dawn. There's nothing you can't
do, that's for sure. I kind of feel that way.
I try my best anyway, but it's, yeah. And you
know what? And today I get to work alongside
amazing leaders, whether they're First Nation,
Inuit or Métis. And today they're also my role
models too. And Canada is fortunate that we've
had people. And, you know, I could talk to my
good friends like Chief Terry Paul, for example.
We've worked together on the National Indigenous
Economic Development Board for many years. Outside
the meeting, when we talk, he grew up the same
way I did. And the first time I went to member
two, I remember the poverty there. I was there
when I was, I hate to tell you this, but when
I was only 16, my cousins and I hitchhiked across
Canada. And thank goodness we were safe. We were
safe the whole way through. But I always remember
being in Member 2 and seeing the poverty there.
And now when I go today, I'm just, the Member
2 First Nation in Eastern Canada is so progressive
and I'm so happy to see that. And just like in
my own area, you can see our communities with
paved streets now and better housing than we
ever had. to see that we have safe communities
with street lamps and playgrounds for our children
that didn't exist before. So there's progress
that you see and we have our own people providing
the goods and services that we need in our communities
and they provide goods and services to the region
surrounding us because it's a proven fact that
when Indigenous communities progress, so do the
regions around them. We did economic leakage
studies that show that we really keep these regions
strong. We're contributing to Canada's economy
because we're involved in providing goods and
services. So our people are strong in that way.
A lot of people often think that we're a drain
on the economy when the opposite is quite the
fact is we're contributors. to Canada's economy.
And I think that that's important for everybody
to realize. And that we have people who are amazingly
successful in every economic sector that you
can think of. And when I talked earlier about
investing in about 4 ,000 business projects in
my region, they're in every sector and they're
making a difference. And oftentimes there are
leaders in their sector in our whole region.
And people don't get that. They still don't realize
that contribution that our people make. And if
we open those doors a little bit wider for our
people to progress, it's only going to benefit
Canada and really the world in the long run.
You know, when we're looking at, you know, I've
been involved in helping to develop the, working
with Global Affairs to develop the chapter on
Indigenous people and trade. that we're trying
to include in every one of Canada's free trade
agreements with other countries. And so I've
met with the negotiating teams who are involved
in negotiating free trade agreements with Canada.
And it's been great to educate them about what
it'll mean, not only if they include their Indigenous
people in trade, how it'll open up and benefit
their countries as well. This is a proven fact,
again, that... The more that we're involved,
the better the outcomes in terms of regional
development across the world. Because Indigenous
people are, you know, we have a history of working
hard, survival. Just to make things happen, we
had to provide the goods and services we needed,
especially in the remote parts of all the different
countries. And we're good at that. Yes, and I
think, look back in history, before the settlers
arrived, the indigenous nations were trading
amongst themselves and thriving. And some of
the most competitive businesses, you know, Rob
and I have had a chance to interact with over
the past few years, are indigenous groups who
are the hungriest, the most competitive, got
solid business plans and missions and are delivering
and creating value for all their shareholders
and stakeholders. And as you said, it raises
up the community around it. And that's one of
the strategic advantages that Canada has at this
point in time through the work of yourselves
and others who have laid this foundation. Because
as these gaps are addressed in terms of infrastructure,
it raises everybody up, equal opportunity, and
everybody's hungry to succeed, Indigenous or
non -Indigenous. So it's really exciting. It
is exciting, and I'm so fortunate I get to see
that firsthand because every day I work with
Indigenous businesses and we're investing in
them. We have programs that help Indigenous youth
get into business, Indigenous women, and now
we have access to a little bit more capital than
we had because the Indigenous -owned financial
institutions had... lending limits, but now we
have access to higher limits because things cost
more and we need to be able to support our business
growth as well. We've had clients come to us
14 times as they grew their business and we finance
them each time. And it's so exciting to see.
You know, even though I'm on these national boards
and, well, TC is an international board when
you think of it. We work in the U .S. and Mexico
as well as Canada. But, you know, when I see
I'm signing off approval on a project here for
financing, it's making a difference. It's really
making a difference and it's an opportunity for
them to grow as well. So, you know, I'm so excited
about the prospects for our people going forward.
And I'm just so glad that, you know, I've helped
in some way to open the doors for them. But I
just wanted to say thank you. I really appreciated
this opportunity to visit with you both. I felt
like... We were sitting around a table having
some tea together, which is how I like to do
things. So anyway, thank you so much for your
time and for thinking of inviting me. It was
a real pleasure to have a visit with you both.
And sometime I want to interview you and see
more about your lives, too, because it sounds
pretty interesting. And quick question, Mark,
where in Manitoba are you? I was born and bred
in Manitoba. Ah, yeah, yeah, okay. Spent my summers
at Riding Mountain National Park. Nice. Beautiful
area. You know what? People don't know the natural
beauty around Manitoba. It's one of the most
beautiful places. And we live there every summer
in Manitoba. Yes. And so we live close to Riverton,
Reggie's hometown. And so we're on Lake Winnipeg
and it's just beautiful. Beautiful. I can hardly
wait to go back. But anyway, I'm lucky. Beautiful
Manitoulin and beautiful Manitoba. Yes, we've
got it all together. Thank you very much. It's
been great to have you, Don. Yeah, Don Matabilić,
thank you very much for your time today. It's
been great talking to you. And congratulations
on all you've achieved. Absolutely. And keep
up the great work. Thank you so much. Miigwech.
Take care. Thank you. Thank you to Don Matabilić
for sharing your insights with us. And thank
you for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars
for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on
the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe,
and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel.
Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. Until next
time.