WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.050 --> 00:00:16.309 I'm Mark McNacca. Today on Drumbeats, my co -host 00:00:16.309 --> 00:00:19.410 Rob Branton and I are joined today by Don Mattaby 00:00:19.410 --> 00:00:22.170 -Leach, Chair of the National Indigenous Economic 00:00:22.170 --> 00:00:24.750 Development Board and one of the most influential 00:00:24.750 --> 00:00:27.530 architects of Indigenous economic policy and 00:00:27.530 --> 00:00:30.739 finance in Canada. Over nearly four decades, 00:00:30.980 --> 00:00:33.320 Don has helped scale a First Nation -owned financial 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:38.039 institution from a $150 ,000 loan fund to more 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:42.560 than $170 million, deployed across 4 ,000 Indigenous 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.679 -led businesses spanning energy, infrastructure, 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:49.590 natural resources, and international trade. As 00:00:49.590 --> 00:00:51.909 chair, she led the development of Canada's National 00:00:51.909 --> 00:00:55.130 Indigenous Economic Strategy, a framework authored 00:00:55.130 --> 00:00:57.070 by Indigenous leaders and national organizations, 00:00:57.549 --> 00:01:01.250 setting out 107 calls to economic prosperity 00:01:01.250 --> 00:01:04.489 now shaping government policy, corporate procurement, 00:01:04.689 --> 00:01:08.629 and institutional capital allocation. In this 00:01:08.629 --> 00:01:11.609 conversation, we explore why Indigenous partnerships 00:01:11.609 --> 00:01:14.269 are no longer peripheral but central to successful 00:01:14.269 --> 00:01:17.069 investment outcomes. how equity participation 00:01:17.069 --> 00:01:19.310 is transforming the economics of significant 00:01:19.310 --> 00:01:22.370 projects, and what senior decision makers need 00:01:22.370 --> 00:01:24.329 to understand about Indigenous -led capital, 00:01:24.489 --> 00:01:27.290 governance, and long -term value creation in 00:01:27.290 --> 00:01:32.430 Canada. Don Matabe -Leach, it's great to see 00:01:32.430 --> 00:01:35.670 you. It's been a while since our paths crossed. 00:01:35.810 --> 00:01:39.069 I'm grateful you've set aside a few minutes so 00:01:39.069 --> 00:01:42.569 we can catch up. Well, I'm very honoured to be 00:01:42.569 --> 00:01:45.170 here too, and finally to have a good chat with 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:47.849 you. This would be great to have a good visit 00:01:47.849 --> 00:01:51.609 today. Great. Welcome, Don. We're very pleased 00:01:51.609 --> 00:01:54.709 to have you speak to our audience over here in 00:01:54.709 --> 00:01:58.209 the UK and beyond, talking about some of the 00:01:58.209 --> 00:02:01.670 opportunities and challenges with Indigenous 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:05.689 peoples and companies in Canada. You've had such 00:02:05.689 --> 00:02:09.069 a varied career, Don, and you've been at the 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:13.500 forefront of so many. on the economic development 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:17.280 file for Indigenous people in Canada. But maybe 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:20.159 for our audience, just tell us a little bit about 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.400 your background, where you grew up, where you're 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:26.479 talking to us from today. Well, thank you very 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:32.460 much. I'm honoured again to participate in this 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:36.500 session, especially today as the... 10th anniversary 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:39.300 of the release of the Truth and Reconciliation 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:43.419 Commission. And, you know, that was an important 00:02:43.419 --> 00:02:47.599 piece of work done here in Canada to really help 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:53.259 educate individuals on what has the, I guess 00:02:53.259 --> 00:02:58.090 the legacy of the residential schools here and 00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:01.009 the impacts that it's had, especially in the 00:03:01.009 --> 00:03:03.569 economic development side, which is the area 00:03:03.569 --> 00:03:08.689 that I get to work in. And I'm speaking to you 00:03:08.689 --> 00:03:12.250 today from beautiful Manitoulin Island, which 00:03:12.250 --> 00:03:15.870 is in, I always say, the center of Canada, because 00:03:15.870 --> 00:03:20.870 we're located in northern Ontario. And I am in 00:03:20.870 --> 00:03:24.689 my First Nation community, which is Ondek Omnikani. 00:03:24.849 --> 00:03:29.069 In our language, that means Crow Haven, where 00:03:29.069 --> 00:03:33.150 the crows live. And true to its name, we do have... 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:35.800 I think the smartest bird you could find is a 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:40.039 crow. They seem to be able to communicate really 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:44.379 well. And so it's really beautiful to often see 00:03:44.379 --> 00:03:47.039 them and learn from them and the surroundings. 00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:53.759 But Manitoulin Island is named Manitou is the 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:56.139 creator. And it's the place where the creator 00:03:56.139 --> 00:03:58.629 chose as his home. where all of our beautiful 00:03:58.629 --> 00:04:02.650 medicines are grown naturally here. We have beautiful 00:04:02.650 --> 00:04:05.750 clear waters surrounding this island. You could 00:04:05.750 --> 00:04:09.949 look 70 feet into the water and see the ground. 00:04:10.069 --> 00:04:14.069 It's so beautiful. It's an amazing place to live. 00:04:14.370 --> 00:04:17.250 And, you know, I have a chance to travel the 00:04:17.250 --> 00:04:20.490 world and I could kiss the ground when I come 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:24.829 home. It's so beautiful here. But I've been very 00:04:24.829 --> 00:04:28.180 privileged. over my career to work for my people. 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:33.720 And I did work in Toronto years ago as I worked 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:39.839 for, I was a paralegal at Faskin, the law firm 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:44.180 there. And I also ended up working for the federal 00:04:44.180 --> 00:04:48.079 government as well while I was there. Then I 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.600 moved home and started doing consulting and I 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:55.540 was hired to set up our own financial institution. 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.300 And so I did the feasibility study and business 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:03.379 plan and funding applications and started up 00:05:03.379 --> 00:05:05.259 the Wabatek Business Development Corporation. 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:08.860 What years are we talking about? We're talking 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:17.920 about back in 1987. And so I did a lot of that 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:22.560 work and I helped them to try to hire or put 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:24.800 together all the information they needed to hire 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.660 an executive director or general manager. And 00:05:28.660 --> 00:05:30.839 so they had a set of interviews, but they came 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:32.920 back to me and they asked me if I would run this 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:37.399 for a little while instead. And it's going to 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:40.120 be pretty close to 40 years that I've been running 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.379 our own First Nation -owned financial institution. 00:05:45.669 --> 00:05:48.629 We started out with a little loan fund of only 00:05:48.629 --> 00:05:54.410 $150 ,000, and we're past $170 million in loans 00:05:54.410 --> 00:05:59.529 and investments now. Wow. We're about 4 ,000 00:05:59.529 --> 00:06:04.790 business projects in northeastern Ontario. And 00:06:04.790 --> 00:06:08.829 so I've been so fortunate to work with our business 00:06:08.829 --> 00:06:12.089 people in every sector you could think of. And 00:06:12.089 --> 00:06:16.639 because of that work, And getting to know construction, 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:21.240 tourism, forestry, aquaculture and commercial 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.579 fisheries and learning about all these businesses, 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:28.000 oftentimes I was asked to speak and advocate 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.779 on behalf of these business sectors for our people. 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.959 And that's led me to become the chair of the 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.600 National Indigenous Economic... Development Board, 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.339 which is a government -appointed board. I've 00:06:40.339 --> 00:06:43.100 been on that board for a lot of years, and I 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:47.980 was appointed chair back in 2021. I served as 00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:52.300 the vice chair for many years, and I'm on probably 00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:58.000 about six boards now, currently publicly traded, 00:06:58.060 --> 00:07:05.449 as well as crown agency boards. some not -for 00:07:05.449 --> 00:07:10.089 -profits, all related to helping bring the Indigenous 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:15.129 voice to those levels. So that's kind of my background 00:07:15.129 --> 00:07:19.790 and career. Very impressive. Thank you. Yeah, 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:22.050 I think it's fantastic. You've had such an impact 00:07:22.050 --> 00:07:24.550 in so many different organizations, but you get 00:07:24.550 --> 00:07:30.310 to do it all from your home First Nation. A great 00:07:30.310 --> 00:07:32.930 testament to you that so many different organizations 00:07:32.930 --> 00:07:36.649 have wanted you to be a part. I know you're on 00:07:36.649 --> 00:07:42.230 TC Energy's board, Desnede, out of Saskatchewan, 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:45.310 the Development Corp, and so many others. So 00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:50.329 maybe talk about the National Economic, the Indigenous 00:07:50.329 --> 00:07:53.110 Economic Development Board and some of the work 00:07:53.110 --> 00:07:56.850 you've done there. Yes, well, you know, I'm very 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:59.850 proud of The fact that I get to work alongside 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:06.670 some of Canada's foremost business, economic 00:08:06.670 --> 00:08:11.629 and community leaders and have traveled across 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:16.170 the country because we like to be in community 00:08:16.170 --> 00:08:19.269 when we're meeting with people to learn firsthand 00:08:19.269 --> 00:08:22.350 about the issues that they all deal with. For 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:24.509 example, we'll go to Atlantic and learn all about 00:08:24.509 --> 00:08:30.680 fisheries there. We've gone to central Canada 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.700 to see some of the amazing urban reserve developments 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:38.460 that are taking place and generating significant 00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:42.539 revenues for the First Nations who own those 00:08:42.539 --> 00:08:50.649 urban reserves. We've been to definitely... Alberta, 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:53.889 we look at resource development and learn so 00:08:53.889 --> 00:08:56.549 much about that and all the issues and how to 00:08:56.549 --> 00:09:00.389 better engage and include Indigenous people in 00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:05.169 these sectors. Our board has been instrumental 00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:10.190 in working with the OECD to have the first ever 00:09:10.190 --> 00:09:13.950 study done by the OECD on Indigenous economic 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:18.529 development. So we worked with them. Back in, 00:09:18.549 --> 00:09:23.629 started in 2017 and launched the first ever global 00:09:23.629 --> 00:09:26.909 report on Indigenous people and economic development 00:09:26.909 --> 00:09:30.710 in two years later in 2019. And then we had three 00:09:30.710 --> 00:09:33.570 country reports, including Canada, Australia 00:09:33.570 --> 00:09:37.289 and Sweden. And since then, I've been working 00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:39.769 with them on the mining regions reports as well. 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:44.490 And ensuring that we have an Indigenous perspective 00:09:44.490 --> 00:09:50.860 added to those reports. So, this is because of 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:52.740 the work of the National Indigenous Economic 00:09:52.740 --> 00:09:55.899 Development Board. And the other significant, 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.259 two other significant pieces of work is that 00:09:59.259 --> 00:10:02.840 every three to four years, we issue our National 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.639 Indigenous Economic Progress Report. It's sort 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.679 of like a state of the Indigenous Nation report 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:12.860 that we produce. And that's always often quoted 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:17.649 by other studies. So it's on our website as well. 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:21.370 We were very instrumental in implementing one 00:10:21.370 --> 00:10:24.149 of the OECD recommendations in the Canada report 00:10:24.149 --> 00:10:26.929 was to develop a national Indigenous economic 00:10:26.929 --> 00:10:32.190 strategy for Canada. And this report was done 00:10:32.190 --> 00:10:37.830 and penned exclusively by Indigenous leaders 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:42.090 from more than 25 different Indigenous national 00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:46.679 organizations. worked together on this and I'm 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.419 very proud of what we produced and you can find 00:10:50.419 --> 00:10:56.379 this strategy at niestrategy .ca. It has four 00:10:56.379 --> 00:11:04.159 pathways that we look at for Indigenous inclusion 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:09.159 and Indigenous economic reconciliation. These 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:15.779 four pathways are people, land, finance and infrastructure. 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:20.139 And we have 107 calls to economic prosperity 00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:24.399 set out there. We set up a new institute at First 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:29.340 Nations University of Canada to monitor the implementation 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:34.559 of the strategy. And we're hoping to produce 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:40.179 a report in 2027 on which elements have been 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.379 acted upon in terms of the calls to economic 00:11:43.379 --> 00:11:47.460 prosperity. We know that there's been different 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:52.679 governments, institutions, even our own people 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.259 implementing components of this strategy. And 00:11:56.259 --> 00:11:58.620 so we're excited to see what that report shows 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:02.419 us in terms of, well, corporate Canada as well, 00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:07.179 taking a hold of this strategy and taking sections 00:12:07.179 --> 00:12:11.419 of it to implement as their own. So we're really 00:12:11.419 --> 00:12:15.220 excited to see where this leads us. After three 00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:20.320 years, Dawn, since the strategy was published, 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.860 what's your sense? Are you happy with what you're 00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:30.100 seeing generally? Yes, we've seen companies say 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:33.860 that we're going to take these calls to economic 00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:38.580 prosperity as our own and try to make some differences 00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:41.750 there. We're seeing different levels of government 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:49.850 using the strategy to set out the work that they 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:52.809 do as well in their work with Indigenous peoples. 00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:56.970 We have some really great examples already, like 00:12:56.970 --> 00:13:01.029 the Regional Development Agency for Atlantic 00:13:01.029 --> 00:13:05.470 Canada, ACOA. And I'm trying to think of what 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:08.750 ACOA stands for. Right now, it doesn't come to 00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:12.529 mind, but they have really embraced this, especially 00:13:12.529 --> 00:13:15.970 when it comes to procurement and the proactive 00:13:15.970 --> 00:13:18.549 ways that they're engaging Indigenous businesses 00:13:18.549 --> 00:13:23.029 to take on contracts for that federal development 00:13:23.029 --> 00:13:26.549 agency in Canada. You know, that's one example. 00:13:26.710 --> 00:13:30.789 We have other companies that are embracing the 00:13:30.789 --> 00:13:37.000 report, too. and trying to support, for example, 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:42.279 financial literacy programs for Indigenous youth. 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.100 So that's pretty exciting to see. But there's 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:49.639 some really great things that are happening. 00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:53.840 We're also seeing, you know, we're trying to 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:58.960 include institutions of justice and health as 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.549 well as education. And so they're looking at 00:14:02.549 --> 00:14:05.370 taking on some of those calls to economic prosperity. 00:14:05.509 --> 00:14:08.070 And as they do this, we're encouraging them to 00:14:08.070 --> 00:14:11.169 report to the Institute at the First Nations 00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:14.769 University of Canada so we can record all of 00:14:14.769 --> 00:14:18.330 this and use these as great examples as to how 00:14:18.330 --> 00:14:21.649 people are embracing Indigenous economic inclusion 00:14:21.649 --> 00:14:27.490 across Canada. Fantastic. I mean, for 40 years, 00:14:27.509 --> 00:14:30.970 you've been pushing, Don. to advance economic 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:36.370 development for Indigenous people. Over the last 00:14:36.370 --> 00:14:38.169 10 years, you mentioned Truth and Reconciliation 00:14:38.169 --> 00:14:42.429 Report 10 years ago. You must feel this is an 00:14:42.429 --> 00:14:46.909 exciting time to see some of what you've been 00:14:46.909 --> 00:14:49.470 pushing for come to fruition, even if there's 00:14:49.470 --> 00:14:53.330 still a lot of work yet to be done. Absolutely. 00:14:53.870 --> 00:14:56.450 You mentioned, or we talked a little bit about 00:14:56.450 --> 00:15:00.440 my appointment to different boards and i'm so 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.240 glad to see many of the indigenous leaders that 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:08.200 i know are now serving on bank boards and publicly 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:12.980 traded company boards that's really where decisions 00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:17.940 are made and where we can really impact indigenous 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:22.279 inclusion is on these boards and around the corporate 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:26.159 board table but also at levels of government 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:31.070 now you see Indigenous people in cabinet, the 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:34.529 federal cabinet. That's been an amazing thing 00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:38.490 to see. You know, our governor general is Inuit 00:15:38.490 --> 00:15:43.809 woman and all of these types of changes have 00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:47.850 been very positive and are allowing our youth 00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:50.750 to see our own people in these kinds of places 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:54.090 where they weren't before. And I think that this 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:57.480 is really, really important. We need to celebrate 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:01.179 that and showcase that more as well. But it's 00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:04.059 really trying to make a difference in our communities 00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:08.440 to make sure that we have the infrastructure 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:10.820 that we need, the basics. There's still a long 00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:15.700 ways to go, especially in parts of Canada where 00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:20.440 we still have many infrastructure needs, including 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.580 safe drinking water. I think we're close. to 00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:28.200 realizing all of this but it's it's still a lot 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.320 of work to do uh making the business cases to 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:36.399 make these these things happen if you can have 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:39.519 a good drinking water in a mine in a remote northern 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.779 canada why can't we have that in a in a first 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.820 nation community or any community absolutely 00:16:46.820 --> 00:16:51.600 right it's kind of You know, a fundamental, I 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.080 think there was something that just came out 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.139 in the past few days about some of these basic 00:16:56.139 --> 00:16:59.740 services that it is mandatory. It's no longer 00:16:59.740 --> 00:17:02.019 a choice that they must be provided. And the 00:17:02.019 --> 00:17:03.740 federal government, who's been responsible in 00:17:03.740 --> 00:17:06.940 some of these areas, has not delivered what it 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:10.140 is mandated to. Yeah, I think you're thinking 00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:12.180 of, there were a couple of court decisions in 00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:16.160 the last couple of weeks, Mark. Human rights 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:21.660 to water, to technology. You know, this is something. 00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:26.720 And, you know, the great thing is we have leaders 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.059 that aren't waiting for government to make these 00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:34.160 changes, too. You know, not every community has 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.180 that ability, but some communities do, and they're 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:40.619 just making it happen. But I'm really happy when 00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:44.680 I see our friends in the Northwest Territories. 00:17:45.869 --> 00:17:49.150 owning the broadband services there, you know, 00:17:49.150 --> 00:17:51.470 taking on full ownership and making sure that 00:17:51.470 --> 00:17:54.230 their communities are fully serviced. I think 00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:58.309 that those are amazing steps forward. Or, you 00:17:58.309 --> 00:18:00.950 know, when we have fishery disputes, well, communities 00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:06.049 are buying the companies that wholesale and retail 00:18:06.049 --> 00:18:10.539 fish globally. And I think that... You know, 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:13.920 being part owners, equity owners in a lot of 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:17.220 the initiatives is one of the solutions and some 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:21.920 of our communities are taking that on. And we've 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:26.480 seen now that we have a strong set of national 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:29.380 Indigenous organizations that can help support 00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.819 all Indigenous communities to become more involved 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.160 in all of the different sectors. And we have 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.460 a National Aboriginal Fisheries Association, 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.869 for example. They are really doing some good 00:18:41.869 --> 00:18:45.170 work and great advice to First Nations when it 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:50.549 comes to fisheries or forestry. The First Nation 00:18:50.549 --> 00:18:55.470 Major Projects Coalition is doing great work 00:18:55.470 --> 00:18:59.750 in advocating Indigenous involvement in major 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:02.769 energy and mining projects across the country. 00:19:05.430 --> 00:19:08.390 National Indigenous Tourism Association that's 00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:16.029 helping our businesses to not only welcome and 00:19:16.029 --> 00:19:20.089 learn about our culture in Canada, but they're 00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:23.049 also looking at exporting their knowledge across 00:19:23.049 --> 00:19:28.150 the world as well in terms of how to host businesses 00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:30.950 in Indigenous communities in the proper way. 00:19:31.670 --> 00:19:34.269 Tourism used to be something that we were so 00:19:34.269 --> 00:19:36.869 afraid of because it was exploiting us a lot. 00:19:37.029 --> 00:19:40.029 But now when you take hold of it and manage it 00:19:40.029 --> 00:19:44.049 yourself, you have that ability to share the 00:19:44.049 --> 00:19:48.269 beautiful aspects of our culture. So we're lucky 00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:52.869 in Canada that we have a great set of national 00:19:52.869 --> 00:19:57.250 Indigenous organizations. What's the next big 00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:01.339 priority to the national? Indigenous Economic 00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:03.440 Development Board is working on. You mentioned 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.279 the scorecard coming in a report in 27. I know 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.819 procurement has been important, but what are 00:20:10.819 --> 00:20:16.779 the top priorities in the next year? Well, you 00:20:16.779 --> 00:20:19.259 know, one of the things that we've been advancing 00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:24.960 as well is Canada looking to diversify its trade. 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.599 We know that Indigenous businesses are already 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:35.039 exporting, but they're also interested in diversifying 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.619 their trade. And we've been starting to build 00:20:38.619 --> 00:20:42.900 a lot of relationships in Asia. And I think that 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:46.680 that's one of the areas where we're really looking 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.569 at. The Indo -Pacific in particular, I should 00:20:50.569 --> 00:20:54.190 say, too, area that we're looking at for expanding 00:20:54.190 --> 00:20:59.309 Indigenous trade. So when you look at the fact 00:20:59.309 --> 00:21:03.130 that we have Canada's party to the Indigenous 00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:06.410 people, people's economic trade and cooperation 00:21:06.410 --> 00:21:10.690 arrangement, it's not a trade agreement, but 00:21:10.690 --> 00:21:14.690 it's an arrangement between Australia, New Zealand. 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:20.859 Taiwan and Canada, the four countries have signed 00:21:20.859 --> 00:21:22.839 on, and there's others that are looking to sign 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.460 on too, that we're also building Indigenous to 00:21:27.460 --> 00:21:30.599 Indigenous trade. And I think that that's going 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.799 to be key. But I think that's one of the biggest 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.839 projects coming up. We've had some trade missions 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.420 already, especially for women, Indigenous women 00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:43.230 in business. where we've showcased them at the 00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:47.049 World Expo in Osaka, Japan, this past August. 00:21:47.670 --> 00:21:51.509 And they had many business -to -business meetings 00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:54.549 there, and some doors have opened for agreements 00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:59.630 between Indigenous women in Canada with different 00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:03.410 companies throughout Japan. And that was pretty 00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:06.630 exciting, as well as there was a mission to Taiwan 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:10.609 and Vietnam. So those have taken place and some 00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:14.150 doors have opened there too for some trade relationships. 00:22:14.309 --> 00:22:17.349 And I believe there's some that are already being 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:21.829 acted on in the technology field. That's excellent. 00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:25.650 There's a lot going on and you've seen this transition 00:22:25.650 --> 00:22:30.250 and it must be, as Rob alluded to earlier, such 00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:34.369 a game changer. But you're not only on the national 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:40.529 Indigenous economic. board, driving these initiatives, 00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:44.410 but you're also in private enterprise, such as 00:22:44.410 --> 00:22:47.490 TC Energy. You're on the board there. Can you 00:22:47.490 --> 00:22:50.569 tell us a bit about that and what's working, 00:22:50.750 --> 00:22:53.829 how you see the private sector having changed 00:22:53.829 --> 00:22:55.750 as now you're participating in one of the largest 00:22:55.750 --> 00:23:00.549 organizations, quite recognized? Well, thank 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:04.559 you for that. You know, it's been just over a 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:08.460 year that I've joined that board, and I could 00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:11.039 say it's a two -way learning process because 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.700 there's many times I've joined boards in the 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:17.960 past, and I always find there's a lot to learn. 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:24.500 And I am learning so much about the energy sector 00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:30.319 by being on that board. a lot of board experience 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.559 over the years. And I can apply that to, you 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:35.960 know, committees like governance and audit and 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:42.039 HR and safety and all of that. But learning about 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.039 the energy sector, it's a whole new language 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:53.339 and new acronyms you have to learn and the processes. 00:23:55.579 --> 00:23:58.420 I would say my first year has been focused on 00:23:58.420 --> 00:24:02.299 learning about the energy sector. But I also 00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:05.980 feel that I'm teaching when I'm on that board. 00:24:06.099 --> 00:24:11.500 So I'm teaching about why it's important to include 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:16.240 the Indigenous people and to respect their voices 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:21.900 when it comes to areas that we work in. And I 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.789 think that that... really helps to guide the 00:24:24.789 --> 00:24:27.809 company to do their work with Indigenous people 00:24:27.809 --> 00:24:33.049 in a more inclusive way and proper way, better 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:39.049 consultations and how to do that in a respectful 00:24:39.049 --> 00:24:41.269 way. I think that's the most important thing. 00:24:41.390 --> 00:24:45.970 So we've had lots of discussions and I'm very 00:24:45.970 --> 00:24:51.500 happy to say that the full board and the CEO, 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:58.460 the executive leadership team are so receptive 00:24:58.460 --> 00:25:04.200 to the advice that I've given and really receptive 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:09.039 to working with Indigenous people in a cooperative 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.799 way. So it's been pretty exciting to be around 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.279 that table and to work with a really good group 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:23.480 of people that are... are very open yes you seem 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.680 to be ahead of the curve all the time because 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.299 now prime minister carney is talking about canada 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:31.839 being an energy superpower and here you've been 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.099 at cc energy for the past year getting them ready 00:25:34.099 --> 00:25:35.980 for the opportunity that lies in front of them 00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:38.279 which has been reflected throughout your career 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.140 you're always just seem to be doing the groundwork 00:25:41.140 --> 00:25:44.299 to let things go to the next level so congratulations 00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:47.339 all canadians benefit from leadership like that 00:25:47.930 --> 00:25:50.569 Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate 00:25:50.569 --> 00:25:54.890 that. And you're right. I don't know how these 00:25:54.890 --> 00:25:58.069 opportunities come my way. I always think I'm 00:25:58.069 --> 00:26:01.170 meant to be in certain places at certain times. 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:04.450 And it's really, really helped because I've, 00:26:04.450 --> 00:26:07.150 you know, worked in the finance sector pretty 00:26:07.150 --> 00:26:09.390 much my whole career in financing businesses, 00:26:09.690 --> 00:26:13.470 especially, you know, commercial financing is 00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:17.829 not as easy as retail. banking or financing. 00:26:18.609 --> 00:26:22.069 And mind you, we're starting to get into, with 00:26:22.069 --> 00:26:24.829 the organization I work with, we're looking at 00:26:24.829 --> 00:26:27.450 providing housing mortgages because housing is 00:26:27.450 --> 00:26:31.470 a real issue for First Nations people and, well, 00:26:31.470 --> 00:26:33.990 Indigenous people, I should say, right across 00:26:33.990 --> 00:26:38.470 the country. So I'm hopeful that, you know, the 00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:40.650 work that we do in housing is going to make a 00:26:40.650 --> 00:26:45.329 positive change. I could tell you that... Growing 00:26:45.329 --> 00:26:50.910 up myself, there were times, and I'm the oldest 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:54.950 of 11, there were times when our family had no 00:26:54.950 --> 00:27:02.230 home. And so it was an area where, you know, 00:27:02.230 --> 00:27:04.589 definitely, I always say we were the poorest 00:27:04.589 --> 00:27:09.849 of the poor in our community and my family. And 00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:16.660 I think that's given me the ability to work hard, 00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:19.420 thinking about the children who might be in my 00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:23.559 same situation that I grew up in, to make a difference 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:29.079 for them, and to make sure that they have a shelter, 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:34.000 food, wherever they live in Canada. That's really 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.279 important to me, and that's always what's driven 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.980 me. And of course, You know, I've lived with 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:45.660 the fact that I went to Indian Day School myself 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:49.759 and my mother was in residential school. So I 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:54.539 know what the impacts of that have been on my 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:58.539 family and myself as well. But I've always used 00:27:58.539 --> 00:28:02.680 all of that, anything negative, I use it as fuel 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:07.579 to make me do more to help. And so that's one 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:10.210 of the ways that I look at things. Sometimes 00:28:10.210 --> 00:28:13.730 I feel that doors open for me because of that 00:28:13.730 --> 00:28:17.490 background. It was a little bit tough in my formative 00:28:17.490 --> 00:28:21.670 years and growing up. But I think that that's 00:28:21.670 --> 00:28:24.769 given me the ability to have a lot of empathy 00:28:24.769 --> 00:28:28.369 and knowledge about how to make changes and how 00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:31.150 to make things better for Indigenous people. 00:28:33.250 --> 00:28:37.349 Yeah, Dawn, you're such a role model for so many. 00:28:37.819 --> 00:28:41.380 Who were the influential people in your life 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:45.839 that drove you and gave you that drive and ambition? 00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:53.140 Well, of course, I always like to credit my mother 00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:57.700 and my grandmother the most. And I think it's 00:28:57.700 --> 00:29:02.220 been the women in my life because the women in 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:06.920 my life were never, didn't say that this is a... 00:29:07.150 --> 00:29:10.289 a woman's job or a man's job. We did all the 00:29:10.289 --> 00:29:13.369 work. I chopped wood. I hauled water. I grew 00:29:13.369 --> 00:29:16.670 up in a house with no electricity. And it was 00:29:16.670 --> 00:29:25.990 just two rooms, 11 kids. And so it was the fact 00:29:25.990 --> 00:29:31.319 that we did. All the roles. And I saw my mother 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.200 do that. She could fix an oil stove herself, 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.400 taking the carburetor apart and fixing it. She 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.299 had no training in that, but she could do that. 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.579 So when I would see somebody able to do that, 00:29:41.619 --> 00:29:45.759 I learned how to do that as well. And, you know, 00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:51.559 I just feel that those were advantages I got 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.220 learning from these strong women. who could just 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:58.839 about do anything because they had to, you know, 00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:02.039 out of necessity. But that really showed me that 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:06.900 there's nothing that we can't do. Well, you sure 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:10.279 have proved that, Dawn. There's nothing you can't 00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:13.940 do, that's for sure. I kind of feel that way. 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.799 I try my best anyway, but it's, yeah. And you 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.380 know what? And today I get to work alongside 00:30:24.069 --> 00:30:27.430 amazing leaders, whether they're First Nation, 00:30:27.589 --> 00:30:33.750 Inuit or Métis. And today they're also my role 00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:38.609 models too. And Canada is fortunate that we've 00:30:38.609 --> 00:30:42.049 had people. And, you know, I could talk to my 00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:45.890 good friends like Chief Terry Paul, for example. 00:30:45.890 --> 00:30:47.549 We've worked together on the National Indigenous 00:30:47.549 --> 00:30:52.680 Economic Development Board for many years. Outside 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.359 the meeting, when we talk, he grew up the same 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.180 way I did. And the first time I went to member 00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:06.619 two, I remember the poverty there. I was there 00:31:06.619 --> 00:31:09.940 when I was, I hate to tell you this, but when 00:31:09.940 --> 00:31:13.680 I was only 16, my cousins and I hitchhiked across 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:20.099 Canada. And thank goodness we were safe. We were 00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:24.920 safe the whole way through. But I always remember 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:27.519 being in Member 2 and seeing the poverty there. 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:31.200 And now when I go today, I'm just, the Member 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.519 2 First Nation in Eastern Canada is so progressive 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.940 and I'm so happy to see that. And just like in 00:31:37.940 --> 00:31:40.440 my own area, you can see our communities with 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.740 paved streets now and better housing than we 00:31:43.740 --> 00:31:47.960 ever had. to see that we have safe communities 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:53.519 with street lamps and playgrounds for our children 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:58.599 that didn't exist before. So there's progress 00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:02.660 that you see and we have our own people providing 00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:05.220 the goods and services that we need in our communities 00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:08.220 and they provide goods and services to the region 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:11.279 surrounding us because it's a proven fact that 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.250 when Indigenous communities progress, so do the 00:32:15.250 --> 00:32:18.670 regions around them. We did economic leakage 00:32:18.670 --> 00:32:23.970 studies that show that we really keep these regions 00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.430 strong. We're contributing to Canada's economy 00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:30.230 because we're involved in providing goods and 00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:33.730 services. So our people are strong in that way. 00:32:33.769 --> 00:32:36.190 A lot of people often think that we're a drain 00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:39.529 on the economy when the opposite is quite the 00:32:39.529 --> 00:32:43.869 fact is we're contributors. to Canada's economy. 00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:47.450 And I think that that's important for everybody 00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:52.730 to realize. And that we have people who are amazingly 00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:56.630 successful in every economic sector that you 00:32:56.630 --> 00:32:58.930 can think of. And when I talked earlier about 00:32:58.930 --> 00:33:03.329 investing in about 4 ,000 business projects in 00:33:03.329 --> 00:33:06.029 my region, they're in every sector and they're 00:33:06.029 --> 00:33:07.849 making a difference. And oftentimes there are 00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:09.869 leaders in their sector in our whole region. 00:33:10.569 --> 00:33:13.170 And people don't get that. They still don't realize 00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:17.450 that contribution that our people make. And if 00:33:17.450 --> 00:33:20.250 we open those doors a little bit wider for our 00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:24.089 people to progress, it's only going to benefit 00:33:24.089 --> 00:33:27.390 Canada and really the world in the long run. 00:33:28.230 --> 00:33:30.569 You know, when we're looking at, you know, I've 00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:34.230 been involved in helping to develop the, working 00:33:34.230 --> 00:33:36.690 with Global Affairs to develop the chapter on 00:33:36.690 --> 00:33:41.440 Indigenous people and trade. that we're trying 00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.079 to include in every one of Canada's free trade 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.019 agreements with other countries. And so I've 00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:49.940 met with the negotiating teams who are involved 00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:53.339 in negotiating free trade agreements with Canada. 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.339 And it's been great to educate them about what 00:33:58.339 --> 00:34:01.119 it'll mean, not only if they include their Indigenous 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.859 people in trade, how it'll open up and benefit 00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:08.159 their countries as well. This is a proven fact, 00:34:08.179 --> 00:34:11.469 again, that... The more that we're involved, 00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:15.829 the better the outcomes in terms of regional 00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:19.869 development across the world. Because Indigenous 00:34:19.869 --> 00:34:23.070 people are, you know, we have a history of working 00:34:23.070 --> 00:34:28.389 hard, survival. Just to make things happen, we 00:34:28.389 --> 00:34:31.329 had to provide the goods and services we needed, 00:34:31.409 --> 00:34:34.550 especially in the remote parts of all the different 00:34:34.550 --> 00:34:39.889 countries. And we're good at that. Yes, and I 00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:43.170 think, look back in history, before the settlers 00:34:43.170 --> 00:34:45.769 arrived, the indigenous nations were trading 00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:51.550 amongst themselves and thriving. And some of 00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:54.369 the most competitive businesses, you know, Rob 00:34:54.369 --> 00:34:56.329 and I have had a chance to interact with over 00:34:56.329 --> 00:35:00.050 the past few years, are indigenous groups who 00:35:00.050 --> 00:35:02.670 are the hungriest, the most competitive, got 00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:05.889 solid business plans and missions and are delivering 00:35:05.889 --> 00:35:08.750 and creating value for all their shareholders 00:35:08.750 --> 00:35:11.489 and stakeholders. And as you said, it raises 00:35:11.489 --> 00:35:14.389 up the community around it. And that's one of 00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:17.769 the strategic advantages that Canada has at this 00:35:17.769 --> 00:35:19.809 point in time through the work of yourselves 00:35:19.809 --> 00:35:24.349 and others who have laid this foundation. Because 00:35:24.349 --> 00:35:27.809 as these gaps are addressed in terms of infrastructure, 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:31.150 it raises everybody up, equal opportunity, and 00:35:31.150 --> 00:35:33.949 everybody's hungry to succeed, Indigenous or 00:35:33.949 --> 00:35:37.460 non -Indigenous. So it's really exciting. It 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:41.079 is exciting, and I'm so fortunate I get to see 00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:43.079 that firsthand because every day I work with 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:46.579 Indigenous businesses and we're investing in 00:35:46.579 --> 00:35:49.760 them. We have programs that help Indigenous youth 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:54.179 get into business, Indigenous women, and now 00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:56.659 we have access to a little bit more capital than 00:35:56.659 --> 00:36:01.820 we had because the Indigenous -owned financial 00:36:01.820 --> 00:36:04.690 institutions had... lending limits, but now we 00:36:04.690 --> 00:36:07.070 have access to higher limits because things cost 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:10.289 more and we need to be able to support our business 00:36:10.289 --> 00:36:14.210 growth as well. We've had clients come to us 00:36:14.210 --> 00:36:19.469 14 times as they grew their business and we finance 00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:22.110 them each time. And it's so exciting to see. 00:36:23.240 --> 00:36:25.900 You know, even though I'm on these national boards 00:36:25.900 --> 00:36:29.719 and, well, TC is an international board when 00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:33.500 you think of it. We work in the U .S. and Mexico 00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:37.280 as well as Canada. But, you know, when I see 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:41.480 I'm signing off approval on a project here for 00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:45.900 financing, it's making a difference. It's really 00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.360 making a difference and it's an opportunity for 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:51.780 them to grow as well. So, you know, I'm so excited 00:36:51.780 --> 00:36:55.860 about the prospects for our people going forward. 00:36:55.940 --> 00:37:00.519 And I'm just so glad that, you know, I've helped 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.840 in some way to open the doors for them. But I 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.960 just wanted to say thank you. I really appreciated 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.219 this opportunity to visit with you both. I felt 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:14.010 like... We were sitting around a table having 00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:17.449 some tea together, which is how I like to do 00:37:17.449 --> 00:37:20.090 things. So anyway, thank you so much for your 00:37:20.090 --> 00:37:23.070 time and for thinking of inviting me. It was 00:37:23.070 --> 00:37:26.570 a real pleasure to have a visit with you both. 00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.510 And sometime I want to interview you and see 00:37:29.510 --> 00:37:32.949 more about your lives, too, because it sounds 00:37:32.949 --> 00:37:35.710 pretty interesting. And quick question, Mark, 00:37:35.869 --> 00:37:38.909 where in Manitoba are you? I was born and bred 00:37:38.909 --> 00:37:42.989 in Manitoba. Ah, yeah, yeah, okay. Spent my summers 00:37:42.989 --> 00:37:46.420 at Riding Mountain National Park. Nice. Beautiful 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:49.960 area. You know what? People don't know the natural 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:53.219 beauty around Manitoba. It's one of the most 00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:56.219 beautiful places. And we live there every summer 00:37:56.219 --> 00:38:00.840 in Manitoba. Yes. And so we live close to Riverton, 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:05.400 Reggie's hometown. And so we're on Lake Winnipeg 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.820 and it's just beautiful. Beautiful. I can hardly 00:38:07.820 --> 00:38:11.920 wait to go back. But anyway, I'm lucky. Beautiful 00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:14.639 Manitoulin and beautiful Manitoba. Yes, we've 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:16.780 got it all together. Thank you very much. It's 00:38:16.780 --> 00:38:19.619 been great to have you, Don. Yeah, Don Matabilić, 00:38:19.659 --> 00:38:22.360 thank you very much for your time today. It's 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.840 been great talking to you. And congratulations 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:28.400 on all you've achieved. Absolutely. And keep 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:31.880 up the great work. Thank you so much. Miigwech. 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:37.099 Take care. Thank you. Thank you to Don Matabilić 00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:39.340 for sharing your insights with us. And thank 00:38:39.340 --> 00:38:42.679 you for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.599 for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.400 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:50.940 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:54.059 Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. Until next 00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:54.380 time.