WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.710 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.529 --> 00:00:15.250 I'm Mark McNacken, and my co -host Rob Brant 00:00:15.250 --> 00:00:17.910 and I are joined today by Emily Black, who until 00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:20.870 December 2025 served as Director of Strategic 00:00:20.870 --> 00:00:24.690 Projects and Partnerships at Enbridge, and has 00:00:24.690 --> 00:00:26.989 just been appointed Head of Corporate Strategy 00:00:26.989 --> 00:00:30.609 for the entire organization. During her time, 00:00:30.809 --> 00:00:33.929 Emily's led two landmark Indigenous equity partnerships, 00:00:34.270 --> 00:00:38.729 the 2021 Athabasca deal involving 23 Indigenous 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:42.130 groups on seven oil pipelines in Alberta, and 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:45.070 the Stone Lassic Aid Alliance, which provided 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:48.590 a 12 .5 % stake in Enbridge's West Coast pipeline 00:00:48.590 --> 00:00:53.450 for 38 nations. This was completed in July 2025. 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:57.079 making it the largest transaction by number of 00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:59.039 Indigenous participants in Canadian history. 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.060 In our conversation, you'll learn how regulated 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:06.260 utility assets create ideal structures for Indigenous 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:09.920 investment. You also see in action one of the 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:13.359 first recipients of the Canadian Indigenous Loan 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:16.159 Guarantee Program, which is now being duplicated 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.319 by individual provinces across the country. And 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:22.519 you also understand why Emily describes the annual 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.480 Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit that's 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:28.219 held in the Square Mile as critical for international 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:31.859 investors navigating Canada's transformed landscape. 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:36.079 Emily Black, so great to see you. And thanks 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:38.920 for taking the time to join Mark and I on Drumbeats. 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:43.700 I know 2025 was a pretty monumental year for 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:47.879 you and projects you were involved in. But welcome 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.060 to Drumbeats. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Mark. Good 00:01:51.060 --> 00:01:53.239 to see you both again. And I'm happy to be here. 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.980 Yes, great to see you again, Emily. So, Emily, 00:01:58.260 --> 00:02:02.140 you are now or recently in December, you were 00:02:02.140 --> 00:02:05.359 made the head of corporate strategy for all of 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.900 Enbridge. Why don't you tell us a little bit 00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:09.860 about your background and how you've ended up 00:02:09.860 --> 00:02:13.819 where you are today and your previous role in 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:15.419 Enbridge, as well as your new role, what you're 00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:18.319 looking at? Yeah, absolutely. So I've been at 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:21.000 Enbridge for over 13 years now. And up until 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.919 last week, that was primarily in commercial roles. 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.000 I was working kind of in Western Canada in the 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.840 natural gas space for many years, looking at 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:33.939 different opportunities, whether it was gas storage, 00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:38.740 LNG. gas pipeline expansions. And then most recently, 00:02:38.860 --> 00:02:41.120 and what we're here to talk about today, looking 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:44.099 at Indigenous partnerships on our existing gas 00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:46.879 pipeline we have in BC, the West Coast Pipeline 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.780 System. So I've largely been a gas person for 00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:54.340 my career, largely working in the province of 00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:57.259 BC, but most recently had a new opportunity come 00:02:57.259 --> 00:03:00.599 my way to lead corporate strategy for the organization. 00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:04.319 So made that switch just last week. So just kind 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.939 of getting my feet underneath me here and excited 00:03:07.939 --> 00:03:10.680 to kind of take the experience that I got working 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.560 in Indigenous partnerships, working in the commercial 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.439 space, working in natural gas and bringing that 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.919 into the new role. But then also, you know, learn 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:22.639 about other parts of the organization as well. 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:25.960 I work quite closely with my colleagues in the 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:28.219 liquids pipeline group, which is largely our... 00:03:28.270 --> 00:03:31.349 our oil business, as you know, they also did 00:03:31.349 --> 00:03:36.610 an Indigenous partnership in 2021. And we're 00:03:36.610 --> 00:03:38.370 closely with my power colleagues as well, who 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:40.270 also are undertaking Indigenous partnerships. 00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:43.710 So have a little exposure to all of those different 00:03:43.710 --> 00:03:45.789 groups, because we're kind of connected through 00:03:45.789 --> 00:03:48.069 this network at Enbridge that works on these 00:03:48.069 --> 00:03:50.530 types of partnerships, but excited to kind of 00:03:50.530 --> 00:03:53.349 dig in more on the rest of the business units 00:03:53.349 --> 00:03:56.719 at Enbridge. I think just if you could also give 00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:59.800 us some background about Enbridge. For our audience 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:03.020 over here, you were at our first summit in 2024, 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:05.520 and thank you for that. But our audience in the 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:09.180 city, Enbridge is on those who know, but there's 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:12.639 a lot of people who may not know. And it's quite 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:16.209 a big group across North America. We are. We're, 00:04:16.209 --> 00:04:19.009 I think, 14 ,000 employees now with our most 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:21.550 recent acquisitions of three gas distribution 00:04:21.550 --> 00:04:24.529 businesses in the United States. We're one of 00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:26.250 the largest infrastructure companies in North 00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:29.610 America. We've got four primary business units, 00:04:29.709 --> 00:04:33.110 our liquids pipeline group, which primarily moves 00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:36.709 oil from Canada into the United States. We also 00:04:36.709 --> 00:04:39.670 have our gas transmission business unit, which 00:04:39.670 --> 00:04:43.069 I was a part of for 13 years, that has gas transmission 00:04:43.069 --> 00:04:44.920 lines all throughout the United States. States 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.740 and that line in British Columbia, which I was 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:52.779 referencing. We also have our gas distribution 00:04:52.779 --> 00:04:56.040 business that's throughout. Canada and the United 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:58.259 States as well, and where we made that most recent 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.759 acquisition that was pretty significant for our 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.000 organization. And then we also have our power 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:06.000 business unit, which actually we have quite a 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.100 few assets over in Europe as well. Back in the 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:13.259 day when the various European governments were 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:15.100 trying to incentivize investment in renewable 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:17.800 power, we made significant investments throughout 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.870 Europe in offshore wind. Well, congratulations 00:05:21.870 --> 00:05:25.069 again, Emily, on the new position. I mean, in 00:05:25.069 --> 00:05:27.149 your previous role, I used to think of you as 00:05:27.149 --> 00:05:30.550 sort of specialist and you would get designated 00:05:30.550 --> 00:05:33.490 or given responsibility for some really interesting 00:05:33.490 --> 00:05:38.170 projects and sometimes not the easiest projects 00:05:38.170 --> 00:05:40.730 to pull off in corporate strategy. How will your 00:05:40.730 --> 00:05:46.399 role change? Yeah, you know, I think I like how 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.540 you characterize that, Rob. I think there's always 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:52.279 things that don't fit neatly in a box. And so 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:55.959 those things tend to end up on my desk. But as 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.500 a result, I got exposure to a lot of different 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:00.420 things. And so I think a lot of those skills 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:03.220 and experience I can really carry with me into 00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:04.980 that new role. I spent a lot of time working 00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:07.680 with governments on government policy. I spent 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:10.379 a lot of time working with nations, obviously. 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:14.800 And they're such kind of a key. part of our business 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.180 and how we operate our businesses now, and even 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:19.800 how we make investments and think about investments. 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:22.399 So I think it will change in that, you know, 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:25.300 instead of being hyper focused on a province 00:06:25.300 --> 00:06:28.720 and an asset, I'll now be looking across all 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.939 of our organization across many different assets 00:06:30.939 --> 00:06:33.120 in different jurisdictions as well, right. So 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.420 I'll be, you know, having to pay a lot more attention 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:37.699 on what's going on in the US, and I probably 00:06:37.699 --> 00:06:42.259 did previously as well. But I think I think it 00:06:42.259 --> 00:06:44.240 will be good. I think it will be a good evolution 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.319 for me. Absolutely. And the pipeline business 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.560 has maybe never had such a high profile as it 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.639 has had in the past 12 months. Issues of sovereignty 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:01.779 and security and all kinds of very important 00:07:01.779 --> 00:07:06.800 generational issues that Canadians and other... 00:07:06.990 --> 00:07:09.110 countries are facing. So great to have you in 00:07:09.110 --> 00:07:11.569 a role like that with a company like Enbridge. 00:07:12.810 --> 00:07:16.709 Let's talk about some of the lessons. And in 00:07:16.709 --> 00:07:20.269 your year in 2025, you closed the Stonelastic 00:07:20.269 --> 00:07:25.509 8 Alliance partnership. Tell us a little bit 00:07:25.509 --> 00:07:30.420 about that transaction. Sure. So that transaction 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:33.660 was a 12 .5 % interest in our West Coast pipeline. 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:36.220 The West Coast pipeline is really the backbone 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:41.500 of the BC natural gas infrastructure. It runs 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:43.740 all the way from the very north in Fort Nelson 00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:46.459 down to the Huntington -Sumas border where we 00:07:46.459 --> 00:07:50.199 deliver into the US as well. We also serve gas 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.259 to the whole lower mainland. So that kind of 00:07:54.259 --> 00:07:57.279 came about as we were, you know, holistically 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:03.180 as a company. looking at how we were partnering 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:07.079 with Indigenous communities, how we were... creating 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:09.500 economic opportunities for Indigenous communities 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:13.160 along the right of ways where we work. So kind 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.540 of as a whole, the entire company was really 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:20.560 evaluating this kind of back in 2020, 2021, which 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:23.319 culminated in our IRAP, which is our Indigenous 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.579 Reconciliation Action Plan. The Indigenous Reconciliation 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:29.459 Action Plan really laid out... how our company 00:08:29.459 --> 00:08:31.459 was going to think about how we were working 00:08:31.459 --> 00:08:33.860 with nations. And we were kind of going through 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:36.779 a time where we wanted to evolve what that looked 00:08:36.779 --> 00:08:39.080 like. You know, I think there was a lot of traditional 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:42.299 tools that we had when we were working with nations 00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:45.919 in terms of capacity funding and project agreements. 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.340 But we wanted to kind of challenge ourselves 00:08:48.340 --> 00:08:51.679 to look at things in a different light. And that 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:56.440 kind of culminated in our IRAP, which set out... 00:08:56.730 --> 00:08:59.490 very specific goals that we were trying to accomplish, 00:08:59.809 --> 00:09:02.009 one of them being economic partnerships. And 00:09:02.009 --> 00:09:03.990 we would kind of put equity deals under that 00:09:03.990 --> 00:09:07.409 economic partnerships bucket. And then I think 00:09:07.409 --> 00:09:10.009 the other big thing that happened for us was 00:09:10.009 --> 00:09:14.149 getting the Athabasca deal done in Alberta. I'm 00:09:14.149 --> 00:09:15.909 sure we'll touch on this at some point, but these 00:09:15.909 --> 00:09:18.850 deals really can't happen without Indigenous 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:21.129 loan guarantee programs. And Alberta was the 00:09:21.129 --> 00:09:25.129 first one to have a program in Canada. And we 00:09:25.129 --> 00:09:27.340 were able to take advantage. of that and complete 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.700 a transaction on seven pipelines, seven oil pipelines 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:34.320 in northern Alberta with 23 Indigenous groups. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:36.559 So that was kind of our proof of concept where 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.600 we had a model that worked. And so after we completed 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.179 that, we were asked to look at our West Coast 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:48.970 business. BC has a lot of nations. And we were, 00:09:49.009 --> 00:09:52.490 as I mentioned, we were looking to kind of pivot 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:55.029 or assess where we're at with our relationships 00:09:55.029 --> 00:09:57.649 and how we could maybe potentially evolve those. 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:00.409 And that was one of the assets we looked at. 00:10:00.470 --> 00:10:03.970 So we kind of rolled that out to the nations 00:10:03.970 --> 00:10:07.350 probably almost two and a half years ago now. 00:10:07.830 --> 00:10:11.230 And we're able to close that transaction in. 00:10:11.929 --> 00:10:15.250 July of this year, we had 38 nations participate. 00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:18.529 So I think that was the largest transaction by 00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:21.970 number of nations in Canada. Certainly no small 00:10:21.970 --> 00:10:24.950 feat to bring together that many nations and 00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:27.029 a lot of work on the nations part too, right? 00:10:27.090 --> 00:10:30.850 It's not just work for the company. It's these 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:33.730 Indigenous leaders of these communities who have 00:10:33.730 --> 00:10:37.830 many other things that they are working on within 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:40.850 community at all times, also taking their time. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.799 to work through this with us as well over a couple 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:48.440 of years. Now, you said something that was interesting 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.379 about these deals couldn't happen without support 00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:54.840 from governments in the form of loan guarantees. 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.320 So whether it's Stone Lasset Gate or Athabasca, 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:02.899 you've got a nice profitable business with a 00:11:02.899 --> 00:11:08.200 long history. Why is it necessary for First Nations 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:12.779 if they want to buy into? that business? Why 00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:16.039 do and they want to borrow money to buy into 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:19.059 buy their equity position? Why is it necessary 00:11:19.059 --> 00:11:24.240 to get a government guarantee on a loan and in 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.340 such a stable, regulated business such as such 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:33.240 as yours? Yeah, so I think We kind of paint equity 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.139 with a broad brush and lots of things are called 00:11:36.139 --> 00:11:39.419 equity. And so I think it is specific to the 00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:41.279 types of deals we were doing. So I'll just note 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.899 that you do have a bit more flexibility and not 00:11:44.899 --> 00:11:47.080 saying that loan guarantees aren't needed, but 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.000 there is a bit more flexibility on like a new 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:51.139 build project, for example, where you haven't 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:54.820 established your structure for that business 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.179 yet. On our assets, the great thing about these 00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:02.019 assets are the assets. specifically in BC that 00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:04.980 I worked on, is it's rate regulated. So it's 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:07.580 low risk. So it very much aligns with the type 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:10.759 of investments that nations like to make. But 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:12.779 it also limits the amount of cash flow that comes 00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:15.480 out of it. And when you talk about taking cash 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.980 out of a business and then distributing it 38 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:23.059 ways, it can get... You're right. We can lever 00:12:23.059 --> 00:12:25.679 transactions like this where they are facing 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:29.159 these low cost business quite high. But the lenders 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.100 still want to see some sort of tranche of equity 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:36.840 on behalf of the Indigenous investors. So they 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:39.259 can, you know, debt finance at quite high, but 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:40.960 they want to see some sort of equity. Of course, 00:12:41.019 --> 00:12:43.059 the nations don't have equity and we don't expect 00:12:43.059 --> 00:12:45.460 them to. We don't want them putting money that 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:49.159 can be otherwise directed towards community investment. 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:51.360 and community projects and other important needs 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.539 of the community into this. And so we kind of 00:12:53.539 --> 00:12:56.860 create pseudo equity by having that loan guarantee 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:01.519 and doing a second financing with that. So for 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.600 us, when we evaluated it, we did look at whether 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.519 we could do this without a loan guarantee. When 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:09.779 we started this, there was actually no federal 00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:13.059 loan guarantee program and no BC loan guarantee 00:13:13.059 --> 00:13:18.309 program. maybe not how I would do it again. But 00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:20.870 because there was no programs in place at that 00:13:20.870 --> 00:13:23.629 time, we did look at, you know, is there other 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:26.190 ways to do this? And just with the structure 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:29.409 of the business, the amount of nations, how we 00:13:29.409 --> 00:13:32.590 wanted to finance it, meaning that it would be 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.350 completely non -recourse to the nations, we just 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:38.129 couldn't make it work. It was really a loan guarantee. 00:13:38.309 --> 00:13:40.529 Yes, we can do it. No loan guarantee. No, we 00:13:40.529 --> 00:13:45.419 can't. And I guess it lowers the cost of of that 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:49.480 capital and yeah and so that's the kind of secondary 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.019 benefit right so after like it actually enables 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:53.799 you being able to do the debt financing in the 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:55.759 first place because it kind of creates that pseudo 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.340 tranche of equity then the larger loan guarantee 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:03.220 you get it lowers your cost of borrowing right 00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:08.809 so that's just money back to the nations Just 00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:12.490 come back to the 38 nations. A lot of our audience 00:14:12.490 --> 00:14:14.389 will be hearing that and thinking they have enough 00:14:14.389 --> 00:14:17.470 problem getting their one single counterpart 00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:22.309 to close the deal. How does it work with 38 nations? 00:14:22.429 --> 00:14:24.470 Can you describe that a bit for our audience? 00:14:25.769 --> 00:14:28.649 Yeah, so I think governance was a big component 00:14:28.649 --> 00:14:30.769 of this and very important in how we established 00:14:30.769 --> 00:14:33.750 governance. It was very important for us that 00:14:33.750 --> 00:14:36.990 this was led by the nation so that they had buy 00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:40.909 -in to their own structure. And it was something 00:14:40.909 --> 00:14:45.129 that had durability. I think if we had set something 00:14:45.129 --> 00:14:49.919 up or... or created something that we thought 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.259 worked and maybe they didn't think work, you 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.039 always run the risk that it's not going to stand 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.399 the test of time. So we had actually invited 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:02.120 the nations to a meeting in Vancouver when we 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.720 were first rolling this out and then kind of 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.960 let them go back and think about what we had 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.960 put on the table and then brought them back to 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.399 Vancouver a few months later and had a facilitator, 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.940 an Indigenous facilitator, come in and really 00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:19.299 lead Indigenous -led conversation around governance. 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.679 We actually left the room. We left them with 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.009 some thoughts on things that we had. done in 00:15:25.009 --> 00:15:27.889 our previous transaction, but really left it 00:15:27.889 --> 00:15:30.809 to that facilitator to set up a structure. So 00:15:30.809 --> 00:15:33.389 how the nations decided to set it up was they 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:36.409 did it regionally. So as I mentioned, the pipeline 00:15:36.409 --> 00:15:38.350 runs all the way from the very north of the province, 00:15:38.490 --> 00:15:40.429 all the way to the very south of the province. 00:15:40.789 --> 00:15:44.529 So lots of geographical differences in the nations 00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:48.110 along the pipeline. So like, for example, we 00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:51.129 have the Treaty 8 nations in the north. They 00:15:51.129 --> 00:16:03.529 elected two people to represent. And we kind 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:05.490 of, they did that all the way along the pipeline 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:09.649 and made sure that they had representatives there 00:16:09.649 --> 00:16:14.210 that they trusted to go through the process with 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:16.830 Enbridge. Obviously, it would be a bit unmanageable 00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:19.049 for us to negotiate with 38 different parties. 00:16:19.169 --> 00:16:21.350 And so setting up this, what we ended up calling 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:26.879 the Transaction Committee. with nominated people 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.379 from the individual communities was how we kind 00:16:30.379 --> 00:16:32.600 of created a structure that we could work through 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.340 the transaction. And it's actually the structure 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:37.679 that's carried on now. Obviously they're their 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.120 own business now and they've got these investments 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.899 that have to be managed and they've kind of carried 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:47.500 that structure through to today. Beautiful. And 00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:56.269 so 38 First Nations. different sizes and shapes. 00:16:56.789 --> 00:17:00.809 Does everybody get one equal vote or how did 00:17:00.809 --> 00:17:07.339 you in the end decide to work that? Yeah. So 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:10.319 in this structure, it is. It's one nation, one 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:14.500 vote. So we sold the 12 and a half percent or 00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:17.079 they invested in the 12 and a half percent as 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.720 an entity. And then each nation has one thirty 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:24.920 eighth of that entity. To be honest, it's a tough 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.200 one. You know, when we look at, you know, maybe 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.880 an LNG facility that's in One Nation's core territory 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.259 and you're partnering with One Nation, those 00:17:33.259 --> 00:17:36.059 deals look a little bit different than when you 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:39.539 have a linear piece of infrastructure that runs 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:42.660 the entire length of a province. And, you know, 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.289 there's different... It's different for everyone. 00:17:45.430 --> 00:17:48.490 Like in Treaty 8, for example, they also have 00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:50.690 all of the natural gas drilling in their territory. 00:17:50.910 --> 00:17:55.589 And so impacts to them are different. And there's 00:17:55.589 --> 00:17:58.190 places where our pipeline is actually on 11 different 00:17:58.190 --> 00:18:02.000 reserves. So it's hard to come up with a structure 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.880 that makes sense and works for everyone. So that 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.740 was one of our things that we made a decision 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:12.500 on early and stuck to. I'm not saying it's necessarily 00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:14.799 the only way to do this, and I'm sure there's 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.240 many other structures, but we just felt if we 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.640 were trying to do a formula or something else, 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.599 that we would spend a lot of time debating that 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:28.059 formula and not time advancing. So we actually 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:31.200 set that as one of our requirements. There are 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.039 certain things that we kind of established as 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.160 Enbridge that were our requirements for the transaction 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.660 and others that the nation set that were their 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:40.140 requirements for the transaction. And then about 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:43.039 two years of negotiations, ultimately kind of 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.700 getting to agreement on something. And as part 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:49.059 of the transaction, do the First Nations agree 00:18:49.059 --> 00:18:54.119 to support forever and ever, whatever? happens 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.019 along the pipeline or in exchange for this equity 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:00.819 participation or how much say do they get to 00:19:00.819 --> 00:19:05.099 the reserve rights to object if changes expansion, 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:09.460 for example, are made along the pipeline? So 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:11.980 the short answer is no. And that was actually 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:15.079 one of their non -negotiables coming to the table. 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.980 And we saw that in our previous transactions 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:20.779 as well. Non -derogation came up from the very 00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:24.839 beginning. As you know, Indigenous people in 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.799 Canada have rights that are protected in the 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:32.119 Canadian Constitution. And as part of that, it's 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.970 also ingrained in our regulatory process. So 00:19:34.970 --> 00:19:36.910 if we are going through a regulatory process 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:39.970 on an expansion on this pipe, which we are, we're 00:19:39.970 --> 00:19:43.289 actually in construction on one expansion, in 00:19:43.289 --> 00:19:45.390 the regulatory process on a second, and we'll 00:19:45.390 --> 00:19:48.599 be getting... third regulatory process in next 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:50.700 year as well. So when we enter into a regulatory 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:54.119 process, there is a requirement for the Crown 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.420 to consult with Indigenous communities. That 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:01.160 is often then kind of pushed to the proponent 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:03.940 to do that consultation work. So that's something 00:20:03.940 --> 00:20:06.799 that we will always continue to do. And we will 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:11.200 also still continue to deliver benefits and value 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.759 through that process as well. We very much separated 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:17.279 the equity deal as a business transaction, a 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:20.680 way to create better alignment with the nation's 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:25.240 long -term, certainly a way to kind of address 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.849 reconciliation at our company. Reconciliation 00:20:28.849 --> 00:20:33.150 Action Plan. But the consultation process will 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:35.869 always take place. And through that process, 00:20:36.150 --> 00:20:39.410 that helps us, you know, make sure that we are 00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:41.950 designing and building these expansion projects 00:20:41.950 --> 00:20:45.589 in a way that has, you know, the least amount 00:20:45.589 --> 00:20:48.589 of environmental impact, it has the least amount 00:20:48.589 --> 00:20:51.990 of cultural impact, GHG emissions, all of these 00:20:51.990 --> 00:20:54.029 sorts of things happen through consultation with 00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:56.569 Indigenous people. It also gives us an opportunity 00:20:56.569 --> 00:20:59.779 to deliver value. in other ways. Another thing 00:20:59.779 --> 00:21:02.279 that's very important to us at Enbridge is making 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:06.180 sure that Indigenous businesses are part of our 00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:09.920 supply chain. So, for example, on our recent 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:13.240 Aspen Point program, which is our northern expansion, 00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:16.119 which is just in construction now, we're projected 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:20.579 to hit almost 75 % Indigenous subcontracting 00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:24.359 on that project, which represents almost 40 % 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.769 of all the total value of all contracts on that 00:21:28.769 --> 00:21:32.950 project. So that all happens kind of regardless. 00:21:33.069 --> 00:21:36.990 And then we also have this equity deal that we 00:21:36.990 --> 00:21:40.950 did. The nations are owners. That doesn't prevent 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:44.849 us and will never limit us from doing all the 00:21:44.849 --> 00:21:46.869 important consultation work we do when we're 00:21:46.869 --> 00:21:51.319 trying to do projects. And Emily, you mentioned 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:55.279 Athabasca as well. And I know Enbridge, you've 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.599 got other partnerships with First Nations in 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.319 other lines of business and equity participation. 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.000 You've been involved in a lot of this over the 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.799 years. How have you seen these partnerships evolve? 00:22:12.579 --> 00:22:15.619 So I actually probably have a slightly different 00:22:15.619 --> 00:22:18.099 view than most people. I think because we were 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:21.059 talking about Indigenous partnerships for so 00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:22.819 long, like we were talking them in like kind 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:24.680 of when we were starting to think about them, 00:22:24.819 --> 00:22:27.920 that there's a perception that there's a lot 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.480 of them. I think there's a lot of, you know, 00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:37.400 different LOIs for options too. participate in 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:39.660 projects down the road. Certainly when we look 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:41.900 at development projects, you tend to see kind 00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:44.579 of option agreements as what pops up or some 00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:48.500 sort of LOI, which is very important. But actual 00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:51.519 transactions that have gone through and those 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.539 nations are receiving cash today, there isn't 00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:57.220 a ton of them. So I think it's kind of a bit 00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.700 nascent still in how we're looking at these things. 00:22:59.779 --> 00:23:03.259 I think the next wave of Indigenous ownership 00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:06.329 that is coming through is a lot of these greenfield 00:23:06.329 --> 00:23:08.470 projects though, right? Like we saw kind of a 00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.869 few of the transactions on existing assets and 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:14.369 those kind of have one structure. But there is 00:23:14.369 --> 00:23:16.769 going to be a wave here coming through where 00:23:16.769 --> 00:23:20.109 we have projects that have been in development. 00:23:20.630 --> 00:23:22.410 And so that's kind of a whole different beast, 00:23:22.490 --> 00:23:23.950 right? Like then you're dealing with construction 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:26.789 risk. What is the appropriate timing of that? 00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:31.019 We obviously wanted to... to debt finance these 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:33.839 with the support of a loan guarantee. So you 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.200 require cash flow in order to do that. So, you 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.519 know, because our assets were in service, that 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.740 was an option for us. But the structure of how 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:43.720 these things are going to work on greenfield 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:46.720 development projects are going to be a bit different. 00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:49.359 And I'll be interested to see how different companies 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.779 structure those, because you really do want that 00:23:52.779 --> 00:23:56.140 Indigenous input very early in the project planning 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:59.700 stage. it's harder to kind of create ownership 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:03.180 in the early stages when there's no cash flow 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:05.640 to borrow against. So I'm sure there's lots of 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.160 people coming up with all kinds of creative solutions 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.380 to that. But yeah, there's definitely, the space 00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:13.200 is definitely going to evolve. I think the other 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.220 place that's evolving, and I think this is important, 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.380 is the Indigenous Loan Guarantees to me are kind 00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:20.980 of like the first thing we rolled out, the first 00:24:20.980 --> 00:24:25.890 tool we rolled out. Canada and the various provinces 00:24:25.890 --> 00:24:29.230 to start enabling these transactions. But I don't 00:24:29.230 --> 00:24:31.009 think we need to stop there. Like, I think there's 00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:34.130 opportunity for concessionary financing where 00:24:34.130 --> 00:24:38.069 they're getting like low rate loans from government 00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:42.170 that can explain what you mean by concessionary 00:24:42.170 --> 00:24:46.720 financing. Sure. So for our transactions, we're 00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:48.279 still going out to the market, right? So we're 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.099 issuing bonds. The bonds are at whatever the 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:54.640 market rate is, whatever they assess the asset 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.799 to be. And then we're also doing a tranche of 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.440 bonds using the loan guarantee, which will reduce 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.180 your coupon rate a bit. But it's still kind of 00:25:04.180 --> 00:25:07.599 market rates, right? Whereas government has different 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.799 tools they can use where they can offer super 00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:15.240 low rate. low rate loans, like 2%, 3%, which 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.980 is much lower than market. So I would call that 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:20.630 kind of concessionary financing. And that just 00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:22.329 lowers the overall. And you don't have to do 00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:23.930 it for the entire thing. You could have tranches 00:25:23.930 --> 00:25:25.650 of that capital. You could have tranches of the 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:27.970 capital backed by a loan guarantee. But I think 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:29.809 when you start to bring in other government tools, 00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:32.569 it really lowers that cost of borrowing even 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:35.329 more, which just creates more value to the nations. 00:25:35.769 --> 00:25:37.549 Because at the end of the day, all they're really 00:25:37.549 --> 00:25:39.849 earning is the difference between whatever the 00:25:39.849 --> 00:25:42.130 equity returns are on that asset and what they're 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:43.970 borrowing at. So the lower they can get their 00:25:43.970 --> 00:25:47.289 rate or their blended rate, the better for them. 00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:51.640 And we are seeing some of those structures. We 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:53.779 are seeing some lenders and government programs 00:25:53.779 --> 00:25:56.759 willing to take some construction risk on certain 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:01.259 types of projects and defer interest during the 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:03.619 construction phase. So yeah, and we're seeing 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:08.039 Indigenous -led partnerships now, some more 50 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.819 -50 arrangements on greenfields projects and 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:15.539 transmission as well as production and generation. 00:26:17.330 --> 00:26:21.430 So, yeah, we're seeing that evolve in that way. 00:26:22.690 --> 00:26:27.109 Yeah, absolutely. Maybe just come back to British 00:26:27.109 --> 00:26:30.130 Columbia, which you mentioned earlier. And Canada, 00:26:30.269 --> 00:26:32.190 Prime Minister Carney and many others are talking 00:26:32.190 --> 00:26:34.329 about Canada's energy superpower. And here we're 00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:38.809 talking Denbridge. So perfect timing. But British 00:26:38.809 --> 00:26:40.710 Columbia is now positioning itself as a major 00:26:40.710 --> 00:26:44.450 LNG export hub. And there's multiple projects 00:26:44.450 --> 00:26:48.079 going on. within the West Coast pipeline system. 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.460 How do you see Indigenous partnerships shaping 00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:55.200 BC's competitive advantage versus U .S. Gulf 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.859 Coast, LNG, or Australian LNG and global markets? 00:26:59.019 --> 00:27:03.319 Because this is a growing market and will continue 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.160 to be so. Germany came to the East Coast of Canada 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.059 a couple of years ago saying, we'd love to be 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:12.000 dealing with you. And at the time, Canada wasn't 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.819 open for business, so they ended up buying a 00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:17.160 lot from Qatar. So how do you see that shaping 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:21.609 up now? Yeah, I think BC has a great story to 00:27:21.609 --> 00:27:25.769 tell on LNG, whether it's their indigenous participation 00:27:25.769 --> 00:27:30.430 story, whether it's their GHG story, because 00:27:30.430 --> 00:27:33.509 a lot of the companies are able to leverage BC's 00:27:33.509 --> 00:27:35.710 low carbon grid throughout the value chain and 00:27:35.710 --> 00:27:38.470 really create very low carbon intensive LNG. 00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:40.809 So whether you're talking about indigenous participation 00:27:40.809 --> 00:27:43.589 or GHG, I think they have a great story. And 00:27:43.589 --> 00:27:46.750 in talking to investors and talking to even LNG 00:27:46.750 --> 00:27:50.490 buyers, want those cargos as part of their portfolio, 00:27:50.509 --> 00:27:53.170 or they want ownership in those assets as part 00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:55.690 of their portfolio. Because I mean, let's be 00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:58.730 honest, the world does oscillate on how we feel 00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:03.059 about things like ESG, sustainability. But regardless 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:05.579 of whether the pendulum swings, these investors, 00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.180 these buyers are looking at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.380 years, and they want diversified portfolios. 00:28:12.460 --> 00:28:16.319 And that includes having projects that have these 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:20.200 kind of ESG elements built into them so that 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.500 they've got this diversification and are a bit 00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:27.859 more immune to who's... in various parts of the 00:28:27.859 --> 00:28:30.299 world at any given time. That's interesting, 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:32.880 really interesting to hear, because I did wonder 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.940 whether in the international market, is it just 00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:40.440 price and execution capability? And that's all 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.880 that matters. But you're saying, no, there's 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.900 like a mix. Yeah, I mean. Don't get me wrong, 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.599 price will always be a factor and we have to 00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:53.940 be competitive in that regard. But certainly 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:56.420 in the folks I talk to, whether I'm talking to 00:28:56.420 --> 00:28:59.519 investors or buyers, they take a portfolio approach 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.279 and they want a little bit of everything in their 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:04.380 portfolio. And then I think also when we think 00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:09.119 about financing these deals, having these partnerships. 00:29:10.170 --> 00:29:12.990 lowers the risk the execution risk and the construction 00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:15.549 risk right and so like perceived or otherwise 00:29:15.549 --> 00:29:19.690 uh which shows up in your your cost of capital 00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:21.910 when you're going to market on on projects like 00:29:21.910 --> 00:29:28.009 these advice emily for foreign investors i mean 00:29:28.009 --> 00:29:31.690 you've you and enbridge uh and the first nations 00:29:31.690 --> 00:29:34.589 involved in stone lasik and athabasca have proven 00:29:34.589 --> 00:29:38.890 that what is possible it is possible to get um 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:45.099 First Nations supportive of pipelines. And we're 00:29:45.099 --> 00:29:48.720 seeing that in other areas too. But what would 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.259 you say to investors who said, well, yeah, 15 00:29:51.259 --> 00:29:53.940 years ago, we got excited about LNG too, and 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:58.200 it didn't work. And so we've moved on and we've 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.940 sort of, we're not looking at Canada, but should 00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:03.819 they look at Canada again if things changed? 00:30:05.390 --> 00:30:08.170 Yeah, I think so. You know, when I first started 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:11.569 13 years ago, I came in to Enbridge at a time 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:16.910 when we were bidding on the pipelines to that 00:30:16.910 --> 00:30:20.089 would support the proposed LNG facilities. So, 00:30:20.109 --> 00:30:22.089 you know, we're putting in proposals to Shell 00:30:22.089 --> 00:30:25.730 and the Exxon Mobils of the world. And, you know, 00:30:25.730 --> 00:30:29.849 at that time, it was really we, you know, we 00:30:29.849 --> 00:30:31.490 would either have opportunities come through 00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:35.769 to us. Or we'd be looking at supply -demand dynamics 00:30:35.769 --> 00:30:39.970 and saying, okay, here's a gap. And then we'd 00:30:39.970 --> 00:30:43.329 engineer a solution to fill that gap. Then we'd 00:30:43.329 --> 00:30:45.849 go out to our customers and get them to agree 00:30:45.849 --> 00:30:49.049 to backstop it and take capacity on whatever 00:30:49.049 --> 00:30:51.589 we were building. And then we'd throw it over 00:30:51.589 --> 00:30:53.369 to our projects group and say, go get this done. 00:30:57.339 --> 00:30:59.720 kind of came to an end as we started to see an 00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.380 evolution of how Indigenous rights were being 00:31:03.380 --> 00:31:06.259 incorporated into our regulatory process and 00:31:06.259 --> 00:31:10.559 also how investment opportunities were being 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.119 more driven by the interests of Indigenous people 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:17.019 in that area. So we had to kind of pivot and 00:31:17.019 --> 00:31:19.460 it did take us a little time to do that, I will 00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:23.440 say. But I think we're in a place now where we 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:27.430 know how to get projects done in Canada. We did 00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:30.329 go through some challenging years for sure from 00:31:30.329 --> 00:31:32.990 a regulatory perspective, but we know how to 00:31:32.990 --> 00:31:34.589 operate here. We know how to get things done. 00:31:35.089 --> 00:31:38.069 And I think you're seeing and hearing from nations 00:31:38.069 --> 00:31:40.069 that they are interested in having infrastructure. 00:31:40.309 --> 00:31:43.589 They see these opportunities as opportunities 00:31:43.589 --> 00:31:45.630 for own source revenue for their own communities 00:31:45.630 --> 00:31:47.250 to make investments in their communities that 00:31:47.250 --> 00:31:49.970 are important to them. So with the right approach, 00:31:50.130 --> 00:31:52.660 they all... are also interested in doing this. 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:55.059 And so I think we have kind of like figured it 00:31:55.059 --> 00:31:57.440 out. So in combination with us figuring out how 00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.859 to operate in this environment as, you know, 00:31:59.859 --> 00:32:03.059 owners, builders, operators, and, you know, I 00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:07.200 think we are seeing, you know, more favorable 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.900 messaging coming out of Ottawa now in terms of 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:11.819 how we're looking at infrastructure in Canada. 00:32:12.019 --> 00:32:14.160 I think the combination of those two things, 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.140 it is the right time to come back to Canada, 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.490 is the right time to look at Canada again. Hear, 00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:25.710 hear. Emily, the possibility of a new oil pipeline 00:32:25.710 --> 00:32:30.970 from Alberta to the west coast of Canada. There's 00:32:30.970 --> 00:32:33.630 a new MOU signed by the federal government in 00:32:33.630 --> 00:32:37.309 the province of Alberta. Do you see a realistic 00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:43.710 pathway that a project like that is achievable? 00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:49.539 I think anything is always possible. And maybe 00:32:49.539 --> 00:32:52.279 that's just the commercial BD person in me. We're 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:56.119 just like internal optimists. However, I mean, 00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:59.880 this is never going to be done without meaningful 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:02.180 consultation and participation of Indigenous 00:33:02.180 --> 00:33:04.839 nations, which we all know, I think that's a 00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:08.220 given at that point. And, you know, I think. 00:33:09.529 --> 00:33:12.230 That is kind of foundational to this happening. 00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:14.329 But then there's also many other things that 00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:17.349 have to happen. We've got our tanker ban in place 00:33:17.349 --> 00:33:20.890 for the northwest coast currently. Obviously, 00:33:21.049 --> 00:33:23.210 it's going to be a pipeline to nowhere if you 00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:27.029 aren't able to then put the oil on ships and 00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.549 move it off our coast. And there's many other 00:33:29.549 --> 00:33:31.549 kind of challenges with the regulatory process 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:35.769 that really... make that probably a long putt 00:33:35.769 --> 00:33:38.490 at this moment in time. We also have additional 00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:41.670 capabilities on the Trans Mountain Pipeline in 00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:45.109 terms of what they can move. That's an asset 00:33:45.109 --> 00:33:48.009 already in the ground. And we have additional 00:33:48.009 --> 00:33:50.930 capabilities on our existing assets, which run 00:33:50.930 --> 00:33:54.269 from Alberta down into the U .S. and have plans, 00:33:54.549 --> 00:33:57.769 current plans, to make additional barrels flow 00:33:57.769 --> 00:34:02.359 on those assets. everything's always possible. 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.880 But I'd say there's a lot of work that needs 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.400 to be done to enable an opportunity like that. 00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:11.360 And it's not even just the pipeline itself, right? 00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:13.639 It's also all the upstream investment that... 00:34:14.090 --> 00:34:16.469 would be required to generate enough barrels 00:34:16.469 --> 00:34:20.630 in order to underpin a project like that. And 00:34:20.630 --> 00:34:24.250 there's current restrictions on upstream production 00:34:24.250 --> 00:34:27.929 right now with regards to emissions. So there's 00:34:27.929 --> 00:34:29.650 a lot of things that would have to happen. So 00:34:29.650 --> 00:34:31.889 at Enbridge, we're really focused on our existing 00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:36.409 mainline asset that moves into the US and creating 00:34:36.409 --> 00:34:38.550 opportunities for additional barrels on that. 00:34:39.010 --> 00:34:42.349 But of course, we'll always kind of keep our 00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:45.119 ear to the ground. on what's happening and with 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.219 other opportunities. That has been a great session, 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.940 Emily. We've learned a lot about Enbridge and 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:55.260 about yourself and your new role and your past 00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:57.619 role. You've been involved at a pivotal moment 00:34:57.619 --> 00:35:00.800 in this transition that Canada is going through. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.559 So, Emily, it was wonderful that you were there 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:09.900 at our initial summit at Mansion House in 2024 00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:14.150 and Enbridge's commitment to the summit. We really 00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:17.150 appreciate that. And we're having our next summit 00:35:17.150 --> 00:35:21.070 come up on April 8th and 9th. We're at the LSE 00:35:21.070 --> 00:35:23.849 for the London Stock Exchange Group for the second 00:35:23.849 --> 00:35:28.250 year in a row. And what would you say to those 00:35:28.250 --> 00:35:30.929 looking at, is that something they should be 00:35:30.929 --> 00:35:33.489 at? And what was the benefit of the conversations 00:35:33.489 --> 00:35:37.340 that you had, even though you were virtual? Yeah, 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:40.239 I, as you mentioned, had the benefit of going 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:43.519 in person one year and virtually the next because 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:45.900 I, as you can imagine, was kind of in the throes 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:48.400 of it at the time with this deal closing in July. 00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.760 So the timing didn't quite work for me to get 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.239 over to London. But I think there's a couple 00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:56.260 of things that I really value about that summit. 00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.639 One being that, you know, to our earlier conversation 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:02.519 around, you know, should we be looking at Canada? 00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:04.280 Should investors be looking at Canada again? 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.260 a bit of an evolution. And investing in Canada 00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:12.679 is different than investing in other G7 countries, 00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:15.019 for sure. And so I think that summit gives us 00:36:15.019 --> 00:36:17.760 an opportunity to tell our story, both from an 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:19.960 industry perspective, but then also having Indigenous 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:21.960 leaders there and telling it from their perspective. 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:24.360 And I think the nice thing about that and what 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.699 I really enjoyed, certainly when I went in person 00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:29.119 two years ago, is that although you're growing 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.619 and you've got kind of an even bigger group, 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.480 I think, attending this year than previous years, 00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.760 it still feels pretty intimate. And so the quality 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.019 of the interactions and the quality of the exchanges 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:43.639 feel really high, which I always appreciate. 00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:48.119 And I even joke when I run into some of my Indigenous 00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:49.960 colleagues over there, I'm like, do we have to 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:52.059 come all the way to London to have time to sit 00:36:52.059 --> 00:36:54.070 down? don't have a conversation, but sometimes 00:36:54.070 --> 00:36:56.309 it's true, right? Like we're, when we're back 00:36:56.309 --> 00:36:59.829 in Canada, we all have busy day jobs and it's 00:36:59.829 --> 00:37:03.429 a great opportunity for us to connect and talk 00:37:03.429 --> 00:37:06.150 about what's next. I like that. And it's a bit 00:37:06.150 --> 00:37:08.889 of a retreat for Indigenous, non -Indigenous 00:37:08.889 --> 00:37:14.010 leaders. Absolutely. Love it. Always good to 00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:17.869 be out of Canada once in a while. Yeah, it's 00:37:17.869 --> 00:37:19.909 been great to have Enbridge and your support 00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:22.949 for the summit and look forward to seeing you 00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:29.230 in London in April. It's coming up soon. It is. 00:37:29.250 --> 00:37:33.690 Looking forward to it. Thank you to Emily Black 00:37:33.690 --> 00:37:36.949 for sharing her insights with us. And thank you 00:37:36.949 --> 00:37:39.989 for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:37:39.989 --> 00:37:42.929 for the upcoming 2026 summit taking place on 00:37:42.929 --> 00:37:45.730 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:37:45.989 --> 00:37:48.269 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:51.389 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next 00:37:51.389 --> 00:37:51.730 time.