Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNacken, and my co -host Rob Brant
and I are joined today by Emily Black, who until
December 2025 served as Director of Strategic
Projects and Partnerships at Enbridge, and has
just been appointed Head of Corporate Strategy
for the entire organization. During her time,
Emily's led two landmark Indigenous equity partnerships,
the 2021 Athabasca deal involving 23 Indigenous
groups on seven oil pipelines in Alberta, and
the Stone Lassic Aid Alliance, which provided
a 12 .5 % stake in Enbridge's West Coast pipeline
for 38 nations. This was completed in July 2025.
making it the largest transaction by number of
Indigenous participants in Canadian history.
In our conversation, you'll learn how regulated
utility assets create ideal structures for Indigenous
investment. You also see in action one of the
first recipients of the Canadian Indigenous Loan
Guarantee Program, which is now being duplicated
by individual provinces across the country. And
you also understand why Emily describes the annual
Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit that's
held in the Square Mile as critical for international
investors navigating Canada's transformed landscape.
Emily Black, so great to see you. And thanks
for taking the time to join Mark and I on Drumbeats.
I know 2025 was a pretty monumental year for
you and projects you were involved in. But welcome
to Drumbeats. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Mark. Good
to see you both again. And I'm happy to be here.
Yes, great to see you again, Emily. So, Emily,
you are now or recently in December, you were
made the head of corporate strategy for all of
Enbridge. Why don't you tell us a little bit
about your background and how you've ended up
where you are today and your previous role in
Enbridge, as well as your new role, what you're
looking at? Yeah, absolutely. So I've been at
Enbridge for over 13 years now. And up until
last week, that was primarily in commercial roles.
I was working kind of in Western Canada in the
natural gas space for many years, looking at
different opportunities, whether it was gas storage,
LNG. gas pipeline expansions. And then most recently,
and what we're here to talk about today, looking
at Indigenous partnerships on our existing gas
pipeline we have in BC, the West Coast Pipeline
System. So I've largely been a gas person for
my career, largely working in the province of
BC, but most recently had a new opportunity come
my way to lead corporate strategy for the organization.
So made that switch just last week. So just kind
of getting my feet underneath me here and excited
to kind of take the experience that I got working
in Indigenous partnerships, working in the commercial
space, working in natural gas and bringing that
into the new role. But then also, you know, learn
about other parts of the organization as well.
I work quite closely with my colleagues in the
liquids pipeline group, which is largely our...
our oil business, as you know, they also did
an Indigenous partnership in 2021. And we're
closely with my power colleagues as well, who
also are undertaking Indigenous partnerships.
So have a little exposure to all of those different
groups, because we're kind of connected through
this network at Enbridge that works on these
types of partnerships, but excited to kind of
dig in more on the rest of the business units
at Enbridge. I think just if you could also give
us some background about Enbridge. For our audience
over here, you were at our first summit in 2024,
and thank you for that. But our audience in the
city, Enbridge is on those who know, but there's
a lot of people who may not know. And it's quite
a big group across North America. We are. We're,
I think, 14 ,000 employees now with our most
recent acquisitions of three gas distribution
businesses in the United States. We're one of
the largest infrastructure companies in North
America. We've got four primary business units,
our liquids pipeline group, which primarily moves
oil from Canada into the United States. We also
have our gas transmission business unit, which
I was a part of for 13 years, that has gas transmission
lines all throughout the United States. States
and that line in British Columbia, which I was
referencing. We also have our gas distribution
business that's throughout. Canada and the United
States as well, and where we made that most recent
acquisition that was pretty significant for our
organization. And then we also have our power
business unit, which actually we have quite a
few assets over in Europe as well. Back in the
day when the various European governments were
trying to incentivize investment in renewable
power, we made significant investments throughout
Europe in offshore wind. Well, congratulations
again, Emily, on the new position. I mean, in
your previous role, I used to think of you as
sort of specialist and you would get designated
or given responsibility for some really interesting
projects and sometimes not the easiest projects
to pull off in corporate strategy. How will your
role change? Yeah, you know, I think I like how
you characterize that, Rob. I think there's always
things that don't fit neatly in a box. And so
those things tend to end up on my desk. But as
a result, I got exposure to a lot of different
things. And so I think a lot of those skills
and experience I can really carry with me into
that new role. I spent a lot of time working
with governments on government policy. I spent
a lot of time working with nations, obviously.
And they're such kind of a key. part of our business
and how we operate our businesses now, and even
how we make investments and think about investments.
So I think it will change in that, you know,
instead of being hyper focused on a province
and an asset, I'll now be looking across all
of our organization across many different assets
in different jurisdictions as well, right. So
I'll be, you know, having to pay a lot more attention
on what's going on in the US, and I probably
did previously as well. But I think I think it
will be good. I think it will be a good evolution
for me. Absolutely. And the pipeline business
has maybe never had such a high profile as it
has had in the past 12 months. Issues of sovereignty
and security and all kinds of very important
generational issues that Canadians and other...
countries are facing. So great to have you in
a role like that with a company like Enbridge.
Let's talk about some of the lessons. And in
your year in 2025, you closed the Stonelastic
8 Alliance partnership. Tell us a little bit
about that transaction. Sure. So that transaction
was a 12 .5 % interest in our West Coast pipeline.
The West Coast pipeline is really the backbone
of the BC natural gas infrastructure. It runs
all the way from the very north in Fort Nelson
down to the Huntington -Sumas border where we
deliver into the US as well. We also serve gas
to the whole lower mainland. So that kind of
came about as we were, you know, holistically
as a company. looking at how we were partnering
with Indigenous communities, how we were... creating
economic opportunities for Indigenous communities
along the right of ways where we work. So kind
of as a whole, the entire company was really
evaluating this kind of back in 2020, 2021, which
culminated in our IRAP, which is our Indigenous
Reconciliation Action Plan. The Indigenous Reconciliation
Action Plan really laid out... how our company
was going to think about how we were working
with nations. And we were kind of going through
a time where we wanted to evolve what that looked
like. You know, I think there was a lot of traditional
tools that we had when we were working with nations
in terms of capacity funding and project agreements.
But we wanted to kind of challenge ourselves
to look at things in a different light. And that
kind of culminated in our IRAP, which set out...
very specific goals that we were trying to accomplish,
one of them being economic partnerships. And
we would kind of put equity deals under that
economic partnerships bucket. And then I think
the other big thing that happened for us was
getting the Athabasca deal done in Alberta. I'm
sure we'll touch on this at some point, but these
deals really can't happen without Indigenous
loan guarantee programs. And Alberta was the
first one to have a program in Canada. And we
were able to take advantage. of that and complete
a transaction on seven pipelines, seven oil pipelines
in northern Alberta with 23 Indigenous groups.
So that was kind of our proof of concept where
we had a model that worked. And so after we completed
that, we were asked to look at our West Coast
business. BC has a lot of nations. And we were,
as I mentioned, we were looking to kind of pivot
or assess where we're at with our relationships
and how we could maybe potentially evolve those.
And that was one of the assets we looked at.
So we kind of rolled that out to the nations
probably almost two and a half years ago now.
And we're able to close that transaction in.
July of this year, we had 38 nations participate.
So I think that was the largest transaction by
number of nations in Canada. Certainly no small
feat to bring together that many nations and
a lot of work on the nations part too, right?
It's not just work for the company. It's these
Indigenous leaders of these communities who have
many other things that they are working on within
community at all times, also taking their time.
to work through this with us as well over a couple
of years. Now, you said something that was interesting
about these deals couldn't happen without support
from governments in the form of loan guarantees.
So whether it's Stone Lasset Gate or Athabasca,
you've got a nice profitable business with a
long history. Why is it necessary for First Nations
if they want to buy into? that business? Why
do and they want to borrow money to buy into
buy their equity position? Why is it necessary
to get a government guarantee on a loan and in
such a stable, regulated business such as such
as yours? Yeah, so I think We kind of paint equity
with a broad brush and lots of things are called
equity. And so I think it is specific to the
types of deals we were doing. So I'll just note
that you do have a bit more flexibility and not
saying that loan guarantees aren't needed, but
there is a bit more flexibility on like a new
build project, for example, where you haven't
established your structure for that business
yet. On our assets, the great thing about these
assets are the assets. specifically in BC that
I worked on, is it's rate regulated. So it's
low risk. So it very much aligns with the type
of investments that nations like to make. But
it also limits the amount of cash flow that comes
out of it. And when you talk about taking cash
out of a business and then distributing it 38
ways, it can get... You're right. We can lever
transactions like this where they are facing
these low cost business quite high. But the lenders
still want to see some sort of tranche of equity
on behalf of the Indigenous investors. So they
can, you know, debt finance at quite high, but
they want to see some sort of equity. Of course,
the nations don't have equity and we don't expect
them to. We don't want them putting money that
can be otherwise directed towards community investment.
and community projects and other important needs
of the community into this. And so we kind of
create pseudo equity by having that loan guarantee
and doing a second financing with that. So for
us, when we evaluated it, we did look at whether
we could do this without a loan guarantee. When
we started this, there was actually no federal
loan guarantee program and no BC loan guarantee
program. maybe not how I would do it again. But
because there was no programs in place at that
time, we did look at, you know, is there other
ways to do this? And just with the structure
of the business, the amount of nations, how we
wanted to finance it, meaning that it would be
completely non -recourse to the nations, we just
couldn't make it work. It was really a loan guarantee.
Yes, we can do it. No loan guarantee. No, we
can't. And I guess it lowers the cost of of that
capital and yeah and so that's the kind of secondary
benefit right so after like it actually enables
you being able to do the debt financing in the
first place because it kind of creates that pseudo
tranche of equity then the larger loan guarantee
you get it lowers your cost of borrowing right
so that's just money back to the nations Just
come back to the 38 nations. A lot of our audience
will be hearing that and thinking they have enough
problem getting their one single counterpart
to close the deal. How does it work with 38 nations?
Can you describe that a bit for our audience?
Yeah, so I think governance was a big component
of this and very important in how we established
governance. It was very important for us that
this was led by the nation so that they had buy
-in to their own structure. And it was something
that had durability. I think if we had set something
up or... or created something that we thought
worked and maybe they didn't think work, you
always run the risk that it's not going to stand
the test of time. So we had actually invited
the nations to a meeting in Vancouver when we
were first rolling this out and then kind of
let them go back and think about what we had
put on the table and then brought them back to
Vancouver a few months later and had a facilitator,
an Indigenous facilitator, come in and really
lead Indigenous -led conversation around governance.
We actually left the room. We left them with
some thoughts on things that we had. done in
our previous transaction, but really left it
to that facilitator to set up a structure. So
how the nations decided to set it up was they
did it regionally. So as I mentioned, the pipeline
runs all the way from the very north of the province,
all the way to the very south of the province.
So lots of geographical differences in the nations
along the pipeline. So like, for example, we
have the Treaty 8 nations in the north. They
elected two people to represent. And we kind
of, they did that all the way along the pipeline
and made sure that they had representatives there
that they trusted to go through the process with
Enbridge. Obviously, it would be a bit unmanageable
for us to negotiate with 38 different parties.
And so setting up this, what we ended up calling
the Transaction Committee. with nominated people
from the individual communities was how we kind
of created a structure that we could work through
the transaction. And it's actually the structure
that's carried on now. Obviously they're their
own business now and they've got these investments
that have to be managed and they've kind of carried
that structure through to today. Beautiful. And
so 38 First Nations. different sizes and shapes.
Does everybody get one equal vote or how did
you in the end decide to work that? Yeah. So
in this structure, it is. It's one nation, one
vote. So we sold the 12 and a half percent or
they invested in the 12 and a half percent as
an entity. And then each nation has one thirty
eighth of that entity. To be honest, it's a tough
one. You know, when we look at, you know, maybe
an LNG facility that's in One Nation's core territory
and you're partnering with One Nation, those
deals look a little bit different than when you
have a linear piece of infrastructure that runs
the entire length of a province. And, you know,
there's different... It's different for everyone.
Like in Treaty 8, for example, they also have
all of the natural gas drilling in their territory.
And so impacts to them are different. And there's
places where our pipeline is actually on 11 different
reserves. So it's hard to come up with a structure
that makes sense and works for everyone. So that
was one of our things that we made a decision
on early and stuck to. I'm not saying it's necessarily
the only way to do this, and I'm sure there's
many other structures, but we just felt if we
were trying to do a formula or something else,
that we would spend a lot of time debating that
formula and not time advancing. So we actually
set that as one of our requirements. There are
certain things that we kind of established as
Enbridge that were our requirements for the transaction
and others that the nation set that were their
requirements for the transaction. And then about
two years of negotiations, ultimately kind of
getting to agreement on something. And as part
of the transaction, do the First Nations agree
to support forever and ever, whatever? happens
along the pipeline or in exchange for this equity
participation or how much say do they get to
the reserve rights to object if changes expansion,
for example, are made along the pipeline? So
the short answer is no. And that was actually
one of their non -negotiables coming to the table.
And we saw that in our previous transactions
as well. Non -derogation came up from the very
beginning. As you know, Indigenous people in
Canada have rights that are protected in the
Canadian Constitution. And as part of that, it's
also ingrained in our regulatory process. So
if we are going through a regulatory process
on an expansion on this pipe, which we are, we're
actually in construction on one expansion, in
the regulatory process on a second, and we'll
be getting... third regulatory process in next
year as well. So when we enter into a regulatory
process, there is a requirement for the Crown
to consult with Indigenous communities. That
is often then kind of pushed to the proponent
to do that consultation work. So that's something
that we will always continue to do. And we will
also still continue to deliver benefits and value
through that process as well. We very much separated
the equity deal as a business transaction, a
way to create better alignment with the nation's
long -term, certainly a way to kind of address
reconciliation at our company. Reconciliation
Action Plan. But the consultation process will
always take place. And through that process,
that helps us, you know, make sure that we are
designing and building these expansion projects
in a way that has, you know, the least amount
of environmental impact, it has the least amount
of cultural impact, GHG emissions, all of these
sorts of things happen through consultation with
Indigenous people. It also gives us an opportunity
to deliver value. in other ways. Another thing
that's very important to us at Enbridge is making
sure that Indigenous businesses are part of our
supply chain. So, for example, on our recent
Aspen Point program, which is our northern expansion,
which is just in construction now, we're projected
to hit almost 75 % Indigenous subcontracting
on that project, which represents almost 40 %
of all the total value of all contracts on that
project. So that all happens kind of regardless.
And then we also have this equity deal that we
did. The nations are owners. That doesn't prevent
us and will never limit us from doing all the
important consultation work we do when we're
trying to do projects. And Emily, you mentioned
Athabasca as well. And I know Enbridge, you've
got other partnerships with First Nations in
other lines of business and equity participation.
You've been involved in a lot of this over the
years. How have you seen these partnerships evolve?
So I actually probably have a slightly different
view than most people. I think because we were
talking about Indigenous partnerships for so
long, like we were talking them in like kind
of when we were starting to think about them,
that there's a perception that there's a lot
of them. I think there's a lot of, you know,
different LOIs for options too. participate in
projects down the road. Certainly when we look
at development projects, you tend to see kind
of option agreements as what pops up or some
sort of LOI, which is very important. But actual
transactions that have gone through and those
nations are receiving cash today, there isn't
a ton of them. So I think it's kind of a bit
nascent still in how we're looking at these things.
I think the next wave of Indigenous ownership
that is coming through is a lot of these greenfield
projects though, right? Like we saw kind of a
few of the transactions on existing assets and
those kind of have one structure. But there is
going to be a wave here coming through where
we have projects that have been in development.
And so that's kind of a whole different beast,
right? Like then you're dealing with construction
risk. What is the appropriate timing of that?
We obviously wanted to... to debt finance these
with the support of a loan guarantee. So you
require cash flow in order to do that. So, you
know, because our assets were in service, that
was an option for us. But the structure of how
these things are going to work on greenfield
development projects are going to be a bit different.
And I'll be interested to see how different companies
structure those, because you really do want that
Indigenous input very early in the project planning
stage. it's harder to kind of create ownership
in the early stages when there's no cash flow
to borrow against. So I'm sure there's lots of
people coming up with all kinds of creative solutions
to that. But yeah, there's definitely, the space
is definitely going to evolve. I think the other
place that's evolving, and I think this is important,
is the Indigenous Loan Guarantees to me are kind
of like the first thing we rolled out, the first
tool we rolled out. Canada and the various provinces
to start enabling these transactions. But I don't
think we need to stop there. Like, I think there's
opportunity for concessionary financing where
they're getting like low rate loans from government
that can explain what you mean by concessionary
financing. Sure. So for our transactions, we're
still going out to the market, right? So we're
issuing bonds. The bonds are at whatever the
market rate is, whatever they assess the asset
to be. And then we're also doing a tranche of
bonds using the loan guarantee, which will reduce
your coupon rate a bit. But it's still kind of
market rates, right? Whereas government has different
tools they can use where they can offer super
low rate. low rate loans, like 2%, 3%, which
is much lower than market. So I would call that
kind of concessionary financing. And that just
lowers the overall. And you don't have to do
it for the entire thing. You could have tranches
of that capital. You could have tranches of the
capital backed by a loan guarantee. But I think
when you start to bring in other government tools,
it really lowers that cost of borrowing even
more, which just creates more value to the nations.
Because at the end of the day, all they're really
earning is the difference between whatever the
equity returns are on that asset and what they're
borrowing at. So the lower they can get their
rate or their blended rate, the better for them.
And we are seeing some of those structures. We
are seeing some lenders and government programs
willing to take some construction risk on certain
types of projects and defer interest during the
construction phase. So yeah, and we're seeing
Indigenous -led partnerships now, some more 50
-50 arrangements on greenfields projects and
transmission as well as production and generation.
So, yeah, we're seeing that evolve in that way.
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe just come back to British
Columbia, which you mentioned earlier. And Canada,
Prime Minister Carney and many others are talking
about Canada's energy superpower. And here we're
talking Denbridge. So perfect timing. But British
Columbia is now positioning itself as a major
LNG export hub. And there's multiple projects
going on. within the West Coast pipeline system.
How do you see Indigenous partnerships shaping
BC's competitive advantage versus U .S. Gulf
Coast, LNG, or Australian LNG and global markets?
Because this is a growing market and will continue
to be so. Germany came to the East Coast of Canada
a couple of years ago saying, we'd love to be
dealing with you. And at the time, Canada wasn't
open for business, so they ended up buying a
lot from Qatar. So how do you see that shaping
up now? Yeah, I think BC has a great story to
tell on LNG, whether it's their indigenous participation
story, whether it's their GHG story, because
a lot of the companies are able to leverage BC's
low carbon grid throughout the value chain and
really create very low carbon intensive LNG.
So whether you're talking about indigenous participation
or GHG, I think they have a great story. And
in talking to investors and talking to even LNG
buyers, want those cargos as part of their portfolio,
or they want ownership in those assets as part
of their portfolio. Because I mean, let's be
honest, the world does oscillate on how we feel
about things like ESG, sustainability. But regardless
of whether the pendulum swings, these investors,
these buyers are looking at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25
years, and they want diversified portfolios.
And that includes having projects that have these
kind of ESG elements built into them so that
they've got this diversification and are a bit
more immune to who's... in various parts of the
world at any given time. That's interesting,
really interesting to hear, because I did wonder
whether in the international market, is it just
price and execution capability? And that's all
that matters. But you're saying, no, there's
like a mix. Yeah, I mean. Don't get me wrong,
price will always be a factor and we have to
be competitive in that regard. But certainly
in the folks I talk to, whether I'm talking to
investors or buyers, they take a portfolio approach
and they want a little bit of everything in their
portfolio. And then I think also when we think
about financing these deals, having these partnerships.
lowers the risk the execution risk and the construction
risk right and so like perceived or otherwise
uh which shows up in your your cost of capital
when you're going to market on on projects like
these advice emily for foreign investors i mean
you've you and enbridge uh and the first nations
involved in stone lasik and athabasca have proven
that what is possible it is possible to get um
First Nations supportive of pipelines. And we're
seeing that in other areas too. But what would
you say to investors who said, well, yeah, 15
years ago, we got excited about LNG too, and
it didn't work. And so we've moved on and we've
sort of, we're not looking at Canada, but should
they look at Canada again if things changed?
Yeah, I think so. You know, when I first started
13 years ago, I came in to Enbridge at a time
when we were bidding on the pipelines to that
would support the proposed LNG facilities. So,
you know, we're putting in proposals to Shell
and the Exxon Mobils of the world. And, you know,
at that time, it was really we, you know, we
would either have opportunities come through
to us. Or we'd be looking at supply -demand dynamics
and saying, okay, here's a gap. And then we'd
engineer a solution to fill that gap. Then we'd
go out to our customers and get them to agree
to backstop it and take capacity on whatever
we were building. And then we'd throw it over
to our projects group and say, go get this done.
kind of came to an end as we started to see an
evolution of how Indigenous rights were being
incorporated into our regulatory process and
also how investment opportunities were being
more driven by the interests of Indigenous people
in that area. So we had to kind of pivot and
it did take us a little time to do that, I will
say. But I think we're in a place now where we
know how to get projects done in Canada. We did
go through some challenging years for sure from
a regulatory perspective, but we know how to
operate here. We know how to get things done.
And I think you're seeing and hearing from nations
that they are interested in having infrastructure.
They see these opportunities as opportunities
for own source revenue for their own communities
to make investments in their communities that
are important to them. So with the right approach,
they all... are also interested in doing this.
And so I think we have kind of like figured it
out. So in combination with us figuring out how
to operate in this environment as, you know,
owners, builders, operators, and, you know, I
think we are seeing, you know, more favorable
messaging coming out of Ottawa now in terms of
how we're looking at infrastructure in Canada.
I think the combination of those two things,
it is the right time to come back to Canada,
is the right time to look at Canada again. Hear,
hear. Emily, the possibility of a new oil pipeline
from Alberta to the west coast of Canada. There's
a new MOU signed by the federal government in
the province of Alberta. Do you see a realistic
pathway that a project like that is achievable?
I think anything is always possible. And maybe
that's just the commercial BD person in me. We're
just like internal optimists. However, I mean,
this is never going to be done without meaningful
consultation and participation of Indigenous
nations, which we all know, I think that's a
given at that point. And, you know, I think.
That is kind of foundational to this happening.
But then there's also many other things that
have to happen. We've got our tanker ban in place
for the northwest coast currently. Obviously,
it's going to be a pipeline to nowhere if you
aren't able to then put the oil on ships and
move it off our coast. And there's many other
kind of challenges with the regulatory process
that really... make that probably a long putt
at this moment in time. We also have additional
capabilities on the Trans Mountain Pipeline in
terms of what they can move. That's an asset
already in the ground. And we have additional
capabilities on our existing assets, which run
from Alberta down into the U .S. and have plans,
current plans, to make additional barrels flow
on those assets. everything's always possible.
But I'd say there's a lot of work that needs
to be done to enable an opportunity like that.
And it's not even just the pipeline itself, right?
It's also all the upstream investment that...
would be required to generate enough barrels
in order to underpin a project like that. And
there's current restrictions on upstream production
right now with regards to emissions. So there's
a lot of things that would have to happen. So
at Enbridge, we're really focused on our existing
mainline asset that moves into the US and creating
opportunities for additional barrels on that.
But of course, we'll always kind of keep our
ear to the ground. on what's happening and with
other opportunities. That has been a great session,
Emily. We've learned a lot about Enbridge and
about yourself and your new role and your past
role. You've been involved at a pivotal moment
in this transition that Canada is going through.
So, Emily, it was wonderful that you were there
at our initial summit at Mansion House in 2024
and Enbridge's commitment to the summit. We really
appreciate that. And we're having our next summit
come up on April 8th and 9th. We're at the LSE
for the London Stock Exchange Group for the second
year in a row. And what would you say to those
looking at, is that something they should be
at? And what was the benefit of the conversations
that you had, even though you were virtual? Yeah,
I, as you mentioned, had the benefit of going
in person one year and virtually the next because
I, as you can imagine, was kind of in the throes
of it at the time with this deal closing in July.
So the timing didn't quite work for me to get
over to London. But I think there's a couple
of things that I really value about that summit.
One being that, you know, to our earlier conversation
around, you know, should we be looking at Canada?
Should investors be looking at Canada again?
a bit of an evolution. And investing in Canada
is different than investing in other G7 countries,
for sure. And so I think that summit gives us
an opportunity to tell our story, both from an
industry perspective, but then also having Indigenous
leaders there and telling it from their perspective.
And I think the nice thing about that and what
I really enjoyed, certainly when I went in person
two years ago, is that although you're growing
and you've got kind of an even bigger group,
I think, attending this year than previous years,
it still feels pretty intimate. And so the quality
of the interactions and the quality of the exchanges
feel really high, which I always appreciate.
And I even joke when I run into some of my Indigenous
colleagues over there, I'm like, do we have to
come all the way to London to have time to sit
down? don't have a conversation, but sometimes
it's true, right? Like we're, when we're back
in Canada, we all have busy day jobs and it's
a great opportunity for us to connect and talk
about what's next. I like that. And it's a bit
of a retreat for Indigenous, non -Indigenous
leaders. Absolutely. Love it. Always good to
be out of Canada once in a while. Yeah, it's
been great to have Enbridge and your support
for the summit and look forward to seeing you
in London in April. It's coming up soon. It is.
Looking forward to it. Thank you to Emily Black
for sharing her insights with us. And thank you
for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars
for the upcoming 2026 summit taking place on
the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe,
and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel.
Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next
time.