Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
Before we start, my co -host Rob and I want to
wish everyone a very Merry Christmas to our Drumbeats
listeners and viewers. Thank you for being with
us throughout the year, whether you've been following
us since we started this podcast or just joined
us recently. We generally appreciate you taking
the time. to tune in and listen to us or watch
us. Absolutely. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy
holidays. It's been a year of real change in
the Canadian Indigenous investment scene, and
we've had the privilege of covering a lot of
it with you. So thank you for listening, and
we hope you're enjoying some well -earned rest
this holiday season. For this episode, we're
going to revisit some of the moments, events,
and developments that have shaped or influence
the Canadian Indigenous investment landscape
this year. We're going to look back at the conversations
Mark and I had where we discussed all of this.
So let's get into it. So, of course, Rob, we
could start with the Leafs' recent victory that
I think you happened to see when Chicago visited
and they made the last five minutes of the game
very entertaining. But I think we'll go back
farther in time, not to 1967 when they last won
the Cup. But actually, let's go back to the earlier
summit we had this year. So in April, we held
the second Canadian Indigenous Summit and our
first at the London Stock Exchange, just across
from St. Paul Cathedral in the heart of the city.
And Rob, this was truly a momentous event. It
was, wasn't it, Mark? A real highlight of the
year. The largest gathering of Indigenous, Canadian
Indigenous leaders in the UK ever, as far as
we're aware. Well, I think it's also the largest
gathering of any Indigenous leaders from Turtle
Island, because the last big gathering was, I
think, 300 years ago. And of course, Brant was
there as well when the Four Kings came to visit
Queen Anne in the late 1600s. That's where we
got the name Brandt from that. Yeah. That visit
for the four Kings back in 1710. And that's where
the family name came from. Yeah. They're Mohawk
chiefs and had Mohawk names. But we're baptized
on that visit and given the Anglican. In Anglicized,
his name's Brant. Wow. Wow. We'll have a quiz
at the end of our session. One of those chiefs
was the grandfather of Chief Joseph Brant. Absolutely
amazing. And as this has come out on Christmas
Day, Chief Joseph Brant also did the first translation
of the Common Prayer Book into Mohawk. uh christmas
must be very special even more special for the
brands as it is of course for all of us who celebrate
christmas absolutely so let's let's come back
to the summit so there we are at london stock
exchange and it was uh yeah what a room uh we
had we had sitting chiefs ceos of most of the
major indigenous institutions in canada We had
international partners there exploring opportunities
all in one place, speaking directly to those
looking to do business in Canada. And I think
something that's exceptional is the level and
the quality of those who attended from Canada
and the participants, the delegates from the
UK as well. You know, with sitting chief CEOs
of major Indigenous institutions and their counterparties
all in one room. We've had great feedback throughout
the year on that, haven't we, Rob? Absolutely.
It was more of an intimate gathering, a couple
hundred people and other activities around the
summit going on in London that week. It was a
great chance to get some really quality time
with these leaders and for them to share with
each other. And we've heard over and over how
special a time that was. Yes, and even from some
of the Canadians have said that what's special
about the summit is because they get out of the
bubble at home. And when they're over here, of
course, they're talking to UK and European institutional
and asset managers and others from professional
service firms. They're also having a chance to
have conversations that they don't necessarily
have the time to have back in Canada. Yeah, and
I know I'm working on deals right now that had
their genesis in that summit, some of those conversations
that sparked some really interesting, interesting
transactions. Wow. So that's what we hope to
see over time, that people will come back and
say, that conversation started at the Canadian
Indigenous Investment Summit in London, because
it takes time to build relationships. We've talked
about this before. If the perspective is seven
generations, you're not going to do a deal and
say, hi, how are you? Great, let's sign here
and get it done, right? They've had too much
of that in the past, and it's back to traditional
values, which is about let's get to know each
other first and make sure that there's a meeting
of our purpose, for lack of a better word. Yeah.
And we know most of those leaders have put the
2026 summit in their calendars already. Whether
they're speaking or not, they've said they're
going to be there. April 8th and 9th. That's
it. April 8th and 9th. Back at the London Stock
Exchange. We'll be very pleased to be there for
our second year. And it will be bigger than better
than ever. Can't wait. Absolutely. And I think
for the investors who are here from London thinking
about, in some cases, for the first time hearing
about what's happening in Canada directly from
Indigenous people. And some of them would have
seen court cases, media coverage of protests
and those sorts of things and got the impression
before today that Indigenous people are against
all development. But I think the messages were
pretty clear. Generally speaking, Indigenous
people in Canada are supportive of all kinds
of development when it's done in the right way,
when they're involved in a meaningful way, and
when they're consulted and respected. Secondly,
I think investors were surprised at the number
of really exciting... opportunities there are
right now at this moment in time in Canada within
the Indigenous economy. It's not the same Canada
of 10 years ago even. Investors who may have
been disappointed at not getting some things
done in the past, I think were surprised to learn
that one, the law has changed in Canada. The
courts have been very supportive of Indigenous
rights. Business people have come to understand
that involving the local Indigenous communities
in their projects, in their businesses, is good
business. And that's the way you're going to
get things done in Canada from now on. We're
not going back to the days when you could literally
build a mine in an Indigenous territory, on a
reserve even, and not consult the Indigenous.
people. And that happened time after time, but
those days are gone. Way gone. And I think that's
now with the environment that we're in, with
what's going on again, south of the border, that
you have to take another look at Canada, because
probably if you're in the UK, investor or corporate,
and maybe you have a subsidiary over there at
the moment, as some of the delegates had. I mean,
they were here from the head office, seeing what's
going on in one of their key markets. i think
many of them and and some of them said they were
surprised they really didn't know how how far
this has gone so it's a completely new it's a
new opportunity have to look at the canadian
market in a different way because the returns
are actually greater now as you said because
in the past where things were not done taking
account the indigenous people things didn't happen
as quickly because somebody was just saying listen
to our voice now that there's that process it's
in the constitution uh free power and informed
consent is that's the way things are done things
will actually get done in a much quicker manner
let's get into what's gone on the past year and
rob what a what a year it was and in fact i think
it is a uh seismic year because it's not just
things have changed you can the world's changed
when president trump was reelected again, even
though he'd already been elected once and there
were some issues. He got elected again and decided
to, well, my time to change the world. And in
Canada, he attacked the country. He attacked
Prime Minister Trudeau and, you know, put down
Canada's place as a sovereign state and laid
eyes on it as well as Greenland. everything else
and shook it up. And the Liberal government at
that time had been in power for a number of years,
and it was foreseen that they would most likely
lose the election. Prime Minister Trudeau decided
to resign, and there was a leadership election
call, Liberal leadership election call, and Mark
Carney fulfilled, I think, his dream and became
Prime Minister of Canada. He won broad support
across the country because I think although he's
running as a liberal, I think even small C conservatives,
and Canada is always a center country, saw that
this is a man for the time. Yeah. What an astonishing
few months, maybe six months it was when you
look back at where things were. As you said,
liberals were trailing by 20 points in the polls.
And people had written them off. The opposition
conservatives were getting ready, measuring for
drapes and picking carpet colors, ready to move
in and take over. And things just flipped around.
They ended up, they're now 20 points ahead in
the polls, I think. And they won the election,
the minority government, but there have been
some defections. They're very close to majority
now. At this point in time, they're only one
seat away, right? They've had a couple of Conservatives
members switch. I think a Conservatives resigned.
So they might shortly be in the place of forming
a majority government, which would bring stability
as well at a very important time. But I think
the country is still fairly unified. That this
is a time to build Canada. Yeah, when I moved
back to Canada in March, I was a little bit surprised
at the level of anger that there is towards the
U .S. administration. That anger is still there
under the surface. And it's led to some real
changes and it's maybe given Canada a kick. that
it needed. And there's a moment now where there's
a bit of momentum to make some changes that probably
needed to be made. And there's political will
now to make those changes. Bill C -5 is a great
example of an attempt to meet the moment and
address some of the challenges. And that's the
Building Canada Act, of course. And it has changed.
It appears the landscape for how major projects
will get approved and virtually all of them will
involve meaningful Indigenous partnerships. With
the time this has happened in Canada, and I think
it's nearly, is it a decade after the Truth and
Reconciliation? Yes, 10 years. 10 years. The
Indigenous peoples of Canada are rights holders
now. If this had happened 20 years ago in the
first free trade agreement back in the 90s, you
know, the Indigenous peoples did not have a seat
at the table then. So much has changed in Canada
that actually this is a very unique time. And
it's great that the Indigenous people do have
a seat at the table and can contribute to the
land that others have come to share and prosper
from. So Canada has a unique opportunity. to
build the country everybody wants it to be realizing
its full potential for all canadians whether
indigenous or non -indigenous and hopefully we'll
continue to seize this moments but i i think
over a hundred billion dollars in terms of projects
are have been referred to the major projects
office i mean this is this is a huge opportunity
It's yet to be seen whether this office will
just be another layer of bureaucracy or whether
they will really have the tools and whether they
really will streamline things. There have been
some moves to streamline legislation and the
feds are deferring more and more to the provinces
in terms of environmental and impact assessments.
So they are addressing some of the duplication.
And you're right, so much has changed in Canada.
Indigenous people have never, I don't think,
had as much leverage and power. The courts are
very supportive. The law is more and more supportive.
Government policy is supportive. And business
is coming to understand the advantages that come
with involving Indigenous partners. All of that
together means that... We're talking about major
projects and other things. It's almost, you can't
conceive of those being done today without serious,
meaningful Indigenous partnerships. Yes, that's
true. Well, as I mentioned in this next clip,
the days of offering a royalty check or a few
jobs are gone. That's not enough anymore. Indigenous
people want to understand the business. They
want to be part of the decision -making. They
want to be at the... board table and to be part
of the planning. And it's more than that. They
just don't want to be. They are. Right. Finally,
rights holders. Right. And what are some of the
benefits the Indigenous people are looking at
with these projects? Let's move on to that side.
How do they see their role? Once the project's
agreed and they're supportive of it, they're
not just looking to be, oh, good, we've got to
share the... project as as rights holders they
want development for their community there's
a whole question of infrastructure that hasn't
been provided still after all these years in
their community so there's a number of uh items
on their list can you talk about some of those
yeah for sure the days the days of promising
some jobs or or some sort of Royalty or revenue
stream from a project that might affect Indigenous
peoples I think are long gone. And Indigenous
people want a seat at the table. They want to
understand the business. They want to be a part
of the business, the decision -making, the planning.
They want the infrastructure to benefit their
communities as well. There's a massive infrastructure
gap. within Indigenous communities around Canada.
They want a seat at the board table. They want
participation. And they want their sovereignty
respected as well. Wow. So it's a transformative
opportunity for the country and for the Indigenous
peoples as well. Because if we thread the needle,
And I say we, because we as a country have to
do that. If we're successful, the fabric of the
land called Canada is going to be stronger than
it ever has been. Absolutely. And we'll be a
real unique country. I know the Commonwealth,
Rob, when we had some of our Indigenous leaders
come over to the summit this past year, and we're
fortunate to join the... Commonwealth Trade Investment
Summit, there was a lot of interest there from
other Commonwealth nations about how Canadian
Indigenous people had got to this position. And
some of it's historic with treaties, but it's
also because there's a whole generation enabled
and empowered, such as people like yourselves
and others, who are in those non -Indigenous
organizations shaping those decisions. So I think
there's a lot of lessons for the world on this.
Canada, which always likes to present itself
as a progressive nation in other terms, this
is a chance for us really to demonstrate to the
world about how can a country with strong Indigenous
people and rights, how can it all come together
to be something more than the sum of its parts.
We've talked a lot this year, Mark, about the
scale of investment that Canada needs, and it's
massive. The numbers are mind -boggling. Hundreds
of billions of dollars of projects in the pipeline,
from LNG terminals to nuclear expansion and critical
minerals mining, endless major projects. Yes,
reinforcing the richness of the natural resources
of Canada as a country. The natural resources
and other opportunities that the land called
Canada offers is huge. But the common thread
is that every single one requires meaningful
Indigenous partnerships to succeed. Yeah, and
that's built right into the legislation. And
there are challenges to that legislation. It
was rushed. They fast -tracked the fast -track
legislation. And there are issues with the way
they went about it. But the bottom line is we
will test that, their sincerity, about involving
Indigenous partners. And I've told clients that...
They already have so much leverage, Indigenous
people, that with or without Bill C -5, these
projects aren't getting done without Indigenous
partners. Yes, and the projects that are getting
done now, like Cedar LNG and others, have Indigenous
partners, and everybody's talking about how quickly
you then get to market. Absolutely. I've got
a real live case. We're acting for a group in
British Columbia called Cool Power, a group of
First Nations. And they are the 50 -50 partner
on the North Coast Transmission Line, which is
one of the major projects in British Columbia,
a new transmission line in the north, connecting
mines and LNG terminals. In that case, Cool Power,
because they're a 50 -50 partner. are comfortable
foregoing some of the environmental and impact
assessment processes. They say, we understand
the land better than anybody. We know where the
issues are. We don't need to spend two or three
years hiring consultants to tell us what we already
know. So let's just get straight to the point
and deal with those issues now. They're going
to cut two or three years off the usual timeline.
Cool Power is just one example, but also built
into the new legislation is the Indigenous Advisory
Council and a council of 10 or so Indigenous,
First Nations, Métis, Inuit members who will
advise the Major Projects Office and hopefully
ensure that the consultation and partnership.
And meaningful involvement is taking place. And
hopefully they'll be able to facilitate those
Indigenous partnerships. It's an all -star lineup
of people who've got a lot of experience in development
and economic development generally. Yes, great
lineup. Interesting, because you have over 600
First Nations Inuit. and Métis as well in Canada.
And what was their view about the IAC being set
up? Well, there's still a debate within the Indigenous
community about this whole fast -track process.
I was at the Assembly of First Nations national
meeting in Winnipeg recently, and even there,
there's debate about whether... The concerns
about whether fast -track process will short
-circuit consultation rights that Indigenous
people have fought hard for over the years. There's
a concern that there'll be shortcuts taken and
some of those rights lost. the legislation to
be clearer and they want more explicit consultation
and veto rights for these major projects there
are others who want to get on and believe that
there's enough leverage now within the existing
laws the constitutional rights other rights that
major projects within the territories of Indigenous
peoples will not be able to be completed without
a meaningful involvement of those Indigenous
peoples. It's certainly a change even with all
those questions. Given this is Prime Minister
Carney's major initiative under his leadership
in terms of changing the direction of the economic
growth in Canada, not only to continue growing.
but also who our trading partners are and diversifying
that. There is merit that an Indigenous Advisory
Council has been set up at all because historically
that has never happened. The first continental
railway in North America, many of our listeners
might not know, is actually the Canadian railway
that went coast to coast, was not built with
an Indigenous Advisory Council or participation
whatsoever. It was there to unite the country,
Poland, British Columbia, to confederation. And
it was a race to get it built against the railway
south of the border. So I think that does, at
least establishing the IEC, says something's
changed. And then, of course, later in the year,
it took the new Liberal government longer than
people had hoped to produce their first budget.
But we had that this fall. And again, one of
the big issues is dealing with the tariffs in
the U .S. and how do we cope and what's Canada's
response. And there was reference in the budget
to wanting to look for reliable partners. I think
that was a dig. You think so? Subtle. Not very
subtle. But yeah, what happens when your biggest
trading relationship becomes unreliable? Absolutely
amazing. Who would have ever thought, okay, at
this point in time, in 2025, the United States
of America would be perceived as an unreliable
ally or certainly not a dependable ally. And
nobody wants to wait to find out. Is that a true
statement or not? But Carney, as you said, he
and there was a lot of pressure because everybody
expected he got elected. He'd been in the office.
He took over. He won the election, became prime
minister. Everybody expected, OK, there's going
to be a summer budget. And it wasn't. It didn't
come till the autumn. But, you know, his background
is knowing how to run big organizations, the
governor of the Bank of England, Brookfield.
He knows what it takes to compete globally. So
I think we can look back and say he was obviously
putting the game plan in place that he thought
the country needs to achieve the vision of remaining
part of the liberal democratic order about shared
prosperity with people around the world. Yeah,
and of course you and I, Mark, having lived in...
in London for decades are well aware of the importance
of diversifying your trading relationships. But
when you have such an enormous economic powerhouse
that is the U .S. at your doorstep, it's understandable
that you start to focus solely on that relationship.
But it was one of the kicks that Canada got,
I think, this year. We need to diversify. Yes,
well, you're living through a number of traumas.
Unfortunately, Rob, you were experiencing Brexit
here where the UK chose to leave its closest
trading partner. Now you've ended up in Canada
where its closest trading partner said, you know,
we want what you got. And if you got anything
left, we're going to take it anyway. Yeah. What
do we do? No, not traumatic. I'd say it makes
life interesting. Okay. And for fun discussions
at the pub. That's for sure. That's for sure.
I'm glad you're still continuing to go to a pub
back in Canada. But this focus on trading partners
outside North America, here's what we said about
that. Absolutely. I think it hits. For international
investors, I think this is, yeah, this is. probably
the number one issue for them that might change
their view about investing in Canada, about the
likelihood of success in investing in Canada.
It's more evidence of the importance of Indigenous
peoples and engaging with Indigenous communities.
I think business is already ahead of that curve
anyway. I think they understand the value that...
Indigenous people bring to their projects. And
so it's not just a question of what are we, what
do we have to do to comply with the law? I think
more companies are appreciating if they want
a successful project, they need local engagement
with the Indigenous people. Yes. So that's kind
of, if you're a successful company today or you're
working on a project in Canada, you're probably
already working with the Indigenous peoples.
community concerned and you know the importance
of that. This is just how do you speed up the
process because they already know the way to
succeed and businesses want to succeed long -term.
With the investment in natural resources or hydro
or energy or all the defense issues now being
discussed, you want to work with good long -term
partners and the indigenous people have proven
that time and time again. So, I think for foreign
investors, international investors, it remains,
do what needs to be done. Do your homework. Get
engaged early. And you will have the best opportunity
to succeed. But there will be a budget this autumn.
It's been identified. Carney has said that we're
going to run a deficit to get a lot of this necessary
investment done. which again reinforces Canada
has a strong balance sheet. If you look at it
and share it, that is percent of GDP. Even though
there's been a lot of spending in the past few
years, Canada still is in a very good position
for long -term investments. So if they're made
in the right place on infrastructure and natural
resources and energy, that's all good for the
economy and for investors. Defense investments.
We live in troubled times. And defense brings
good jobs. Of course, you don't want to have
to use it. But if you don't have it, you're going
to be in a desperate spot. So I think that's
even more positive for foreign investors looking
that Canada is finally starting to really be
serious about what needs to be done. to secure
its place, not only in North America, the southern
neighbor, but also its place in the world and
make a stronger contribution to NATO, to the
Arctic. New icebreakers are coming, have been
commissioned, which is all great. So it looks
like a lot going on. So as everyone is celebrating
Christmas today, we don't want to keep you longer
listening to us. But as we wrap up and look back
at 2025. I just want to say thank you to everyone
who's listened, who's engaged and come along
with this journey with us. And Rob, I'll give
you the final words. Well, it's a big thank you
for me as well, Mark. I've really enjoyed the
year working with you and C1 and the whole team
at Drum Beats. The year has shown us all just
how much is possible when the right partnerships
come together. And the importance of stepping
back, recharging, looking after yourself and
those around you is all important. So I'm just
wishing everyone a peaceful Christmas, a restful
holiday season, and the best for the new year.
Yes, absolutely. And we'll be back in the new
year. Until then, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas,
everyone.