WEBVTT 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.740 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:08.699 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.699 --> 00:00:11.080 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.140 Before we start, my co -host Rob and I want to 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:18.739 wish everyone a very Merry Christmas to our Drumbeats 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.140 listeners and viewers. Thank you for being with 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:23.280 us throughout the year, whether you've been following 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:25.679 us since we started this podcast or just joined 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.980 us recently. We generally appreciate you taking 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:32.109 the time. to tune in and listen to us or watch 00:00:32.109 --> 00:00:35.710 us. Absolutely. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy 00:00:35.710 --> 00:00:38.509 holidays. It's been a year of real change in 00:00:38.509 --> 00:00:42.729 the Canadian Indigenous investment scene, and 00:00:42.729 --> 00:00:44.829 we've had the privilege of covering a lot of 00:00:44.829 --> 00:00:48.229 it with you. So thank you for listening, and 00:00:48.229 --> 00:00:50.329 we hope you're enjoying some well -earned rest 00:00:50.329 --> 00:00:53.829 this holiday season. For this episode, we're 00:00:53.829 --> 00:00:55.969 going to revisit some of the moments, events, 00:00:56.130 --> 00:00:58.409 and developments that have shaped or influence 00:00:58.409 --> 00:01:01.109 the Canadian Indigenous investment landscape 00:01:01.109 --> 00:01:04.030 this year. We're going to look back at the conversations 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:06.409 Mark and I had where we discussed all of this. 00:01:06.530 --> 00:01:10.629 So let's get into it. So, of course, Rob, we 00:01:10.629 --> 00:01:12.950 could start with the Leafs' recent victory that 00:01:12.950 --> 00:01:16.709 I think you happened to see when Chicago visited 00:01:16.709 --> 00:01:19.069 and they made the last five minutes of the game 00:01:19.069 --> 00:01:22.510 very entertaining. But I think we'll go back 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:25.930 farther in time, not to 1967 when they last won 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:29.840 the Cup. But actually, let's go back to the earlier 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.959 summit we had this year. So in April, we held 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.319 the second Canadian Indigenous Summit and our 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.579 first at the London Stock Exchange, just across 00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:43.659 from St. Paul Cathedral in the heart of the city. 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:49.420 And Rob, this was truly a momentous event. It 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:52.060 was, wasn't it, Mark? A real highlight of the 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:55.359 year. The largest gathering of Indigenous, Canadian 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:59.480 Indigenous leaders in the UK ever, as far as 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:03.200 we're aware. Well, I think it's also the largest 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:06.159 gathering of any Indigenous leaders from Turtle 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.280 Island, because the last big gathering was, I 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:11.900 think, 300 years ago. And of course, Brant was 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:14.180 there as well when the Four Kings came to visit 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:17.150 Queen Anne in the late 1600s. That's where we 00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:20.189 got the name Brandt from that. Yeah. That visit 00:02:20.189 --> 00:02:25.009 for the four Kings back in 1710. And that's where 00:02:25.009 --> 00:02:28.250 the family name came from. Yeah. They're Mohawk 00:02:28.250 --> 00:02:38.210 chiefs and had Mohawk names. But we're baptized 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:45.039 on that visit and given the Anglican. In Anglicized, 00:02:45.060 --> 00:02:50.460 his name's Brant. Wow. Wow. We'll have a quiz 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:51.680 at the end of our session. One of those chiefs 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:57.219 was the grandfather of Chief Joseph Brant. Absolutely 00:02:57.219 --> 00:03:01.060 amazing. And as this has come out on Christmas 00:03:01.060 --> 00:03:05.439 Day, Chief Joseph Brant also did the first translation 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:11.460 of the Common Prayer Book into Mohawk. uh christmas 00:03:11.460 --> 00:03:14.340 must be very special even more special for the 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:17.300 brands as it is of course for all of us who celebrate 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:21.360 christmas absolutely so let's let's come back 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.439 to the summit so there we are at london stock 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:29.699 exchange and it was uh yeah what a room uh we 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:33.520 had we had sitting chiefs ceos of most of the 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:38.050 major indigenous institutions in canada We had 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:40.669 international partners there exploring opportunities 00:03:40.669 --> 00:03:43.729 all in one place, speaking directly to those 00:03:43.729 --> 00:03:48.509 looking to do business in Canada. And I think 00:03:48.509 --> 00:03:51.969 something that's exceptional is the level and 00:03:51.969 --> 00:03:55.870 the quality of those who attended from Canada 00:03:55.870 --> 00:03:57.830 and the participants, the delegates from the 00:03:57.830 --> 00:04:00.830 UK as well. You know, with sitting chief CEOs 00:04:00.830 --> 00:04:04.330 of major Indigenous institutions and their counterparties 00:04:04.330 --> 00:04:06.469 all in one room. We've had great feedback throughout 00:04:06.469 --> 00:04:09.090 the year on that, haven't we, Rob? Absolutely. 00:04:09.169 --> 00:04:11.590 It was more of an intimate gathering, a couple 00:04:11.590 --> 00:04:16.110 hundred people and other activities around the 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:19.889 summit going on in London that week. It was a 00:04:19.889 --> 00:04:24.629 great chance to get some really quality time 00:04:24.629 --> 00:04:27.589 with these leaders and for them to share with 00:04:27.589 --> 00:04:30.069 each other. And we've heard over and over how 00:04:30.069 --> 00:04:34.680 special a time that was. Yes, and even from some 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:37.899 of the Canadians have said that what's special 00:04:37.899 --> 00:04:39.860 about the summit is because they get out of the 00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:43.139 bubble at home. And when they're over here, of 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:46.740 course, they're talking to UK and European institutional 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:51.819 and asset managers and others from professional 00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:53.899 service firms. They're also having a chance to 00:04:53.899 --> 00:04:57.100 have conversations that they don't necessarily 00:04:57.100 --> 00:05:02.680 have the time to have back in Canada. Yeah, and 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.860 I know I'm working on deals right now that had 00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:08.220 their genesis in that summit, some of those conversations 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:12.759 that sparked some really interesting, interesting 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:17.100 transactions. Wow. So that's what we hope to 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:19.660 see over time, that people will come back and 00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:23.819 say, that conversation started at the Canadian 00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:26.779 Indigenous Investment Summit in London, because 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:29.509 it takes time to build relationships. We've talked 00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:33.230 about this before. If the perspective is seven 00:05:33.230 --> 00:05:35.910 generations, you're not going to do a deal and 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:37.870 say, hi, how are you? Great, let's sign here 00:05:37.870 --> 00:05:40.769 and get it done, right? They've had too much 00:05:40.769 --> 00:05:44.189 of that in the past, and it's back to traditional 00:05:44.189 --> 00:05:47.149 values, which is about let's get to know each 00:05:47.149 --> 00:05:49.910 other first and make sure that there's a meeting 00:05:49.910 --> 00:05:55.930 of our purpose, for lack of a better word. Yeah. 00:05:55.949 --> 00:05:58.930 And we know most of those leaders have put the 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:03.089 2026 summit in their calendars already. Whether 00:06:03.089 --> 00:06:04.850 they're speaking or not, they've said they're 00:06:04.850 --> 00:06:09.149 going to be there. April 8th and 9th. That's 00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:12.290 it. April 8th and 9th. Back at the London Stock 00:06:12.290 --> 00:06:15.029 Exchange. We'll be very pleased to be there for 00:06:15.029 --> 00:06:19.569 our second year. And it will be bigger than better 00:06:19.569 --> 00:06:25.439 than ever. Can't wait. Absolutely. And I think 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.620 for the investors who are here from London thinking 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:32.600 about, in some cases, for the first time hearing 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:35.819 about what's happening in Canada directly from 00:06:35.819 --> 00:06:39.699 Indigenous people. And some of them would have 00:06:39.699 --> 00:06:42.959 seen court cases, media coverage of protests 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:45.139 and those sorts of things and got the impression 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:48.600 before today that Indigenous people are against 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.459 all development. But I think the messages were 00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:55.540 pretty clear. Generally speaking, Indigenous 00:06:55.540 --> 00:06:58.600 people in Canada are supportive of all kinds 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.779 of development when it's done in the right way, 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:04.540 when they're involved in a meaningful way, and 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:09.259 when they're consulted and respected. Secondly, 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.500 I think investors were surprised at the number 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.259 of really exciting... opportunities there are 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:20.120 right now at this moment in time in Canada within 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.139 the Indigenous economy. It's not the same Canada 00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:27.720 of 10 years ago even. Investors who may have 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:30.399 been disappointed at not getting some things 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:35.139 done in the past, I think were surprised to learn 00:07:35.139 --> 00:07:39.480 that one, the law has changed in Canada. The 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.480 courts have been very supportive of Indigenous 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.160 rights. Business people have come to understand 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.339 that involving the local Indigenous communities 00:07:48.339 --> 00:07:53.220 in their projects, in their businesses, is good 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:55.600 business. And that's the way you're going to 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:58.379 get things done in Canada from now on. We're 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:01.259 not going back to the days when you could literally 00:08:01.259 --> 00:08:04.439 build a mine in an Indigenous territory, on a 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.680 reserve even, and not consult the Indigenous. 00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:11.399 people. And that happened time after time, but 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.899 those days are gone. Way gone. And I think that's 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:16.819 now with the environment that we're in, with 00:08:16.819 --> 00:08:20.079 what's going on again, south of the border, that 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:23.019 you have to take another look at Canada, because 00:08:23.019 --> 00:08:26.220 probably if you're in the UK, investor or corporate, 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:29.139 and maybe you have a subsidiary over there at 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:31.639 the moment, as some of the delegates had. I mean, 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:33.860 they were here from the head office, seeing what's 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:36.730 going on in one of their key markets. i think 00:08:36.730 --> 00:08:39.090 many of them and and some of them said they were 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:42.789 surprised they really didn't know how how far 00:08:42.789 --> 00:08:46.029 this has gone so it's a completely new it's a 00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:47.929 new opportunity have to look at the canadian 00:08:47.929 --> 00:08:50.070 market in a different way because the returns 00:08:50.070 --> 00:08:52.409 are actually greater now as you said because 00:08:52.409 --> 00:08:55.350 in the past where things were not done taking 00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:58.929 account the indigenous people things didn't happen 00:08:58.929 --> 00:09:01.590 as quickly because somebody was just saying listen 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:05.049 to our voice now that there's that process it's 00:09:05.049 --> 00:09:08.049 in the constitution uh free power and informed 00:09:08.049 --> 00:09:10.970 consent is that's the way things are done things 00:09:10.970 --> 00:09:14.350 will actually get done in a much quicker manner 00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:18.090 let's get into what's gone on the past year and 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:23.309 rob what a what a year it was and in fact i think 00:09:23.309 --> 00:09:28.610 it is a uh seismic year because it's not just 00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:30.309 things have changed you can the world's changed 00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:35.460 when president trump was reelected again, even 00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:38.500 though he'd already been elected once and there 00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:41.019 were some issues. He got elected again and decided 00:09:41.019 --> 00:09:45.419 to, well, my time to change the world. And in 00:09:45.419 --> 00:09:49.659 Canada, he attacked the country. He attacked 00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:55.419 Prime Minister Trudeau and, you know, put down 00:09:55.419 --> 00:09:58.799 Canada's place as a sovereign state and laid 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.110 eyes on it as well as Greenland. everything else 00:10:03.110 --> 00:10:06.070 and shook it up. And the Liberal government at 00:10:06.070 --> 00:10:07.929 that time had been in power for a number of years, 00:10:08.009 --> 00:10:10.090 and it was foreseen that they would most likely 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:14.929 lose the election. Prime Minister Trudeau decided 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:17.669 to resign, and there was a leadership election 00:10:17.669 --> 00:10:20.830 call, Liberal leadership election call, and Mark 00:10:20.830 --> 00:10:24.210 Carney fulfilled, I think, his dream and became 00:10:24.210 --> 00:10:29.730 Prime Minister of Canada. He won broad support 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:32.730 across the country because I think although he's 00:10:32.730 --> 00:10:35.990 running as a liberal, I think even small C conservatives, 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:40.470 and Canada is always a center country, saw that 00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:45.529 this is a man for the time. Yeah. What an astonishing 00:10:45.529 --> 00:10:49.309 few months, maybe six months it was when you 00:10:49.309 --> 00:10:53.169 look back at where things were. As you said, 00:10:53.169 --> 00:10:55.750 liberals were trailing by 20 points in the polls. 00:10:57.629 --> 00:11:01.850 And people had written them off. The opposition 00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:08.509 conservatives were getting ready, measuring for 00:11:08.509 --> 00:11:13.190 drapes and picking carpet colors, ready to move 00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:19.350 in and take over. And things just flipped around. 00:11:19.409 --> 00:11:21.889 They ended up, they're now 20 points ahead in 00:11:21.889 --> 00:11:24.860 the polls, I think. And they won the election, 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:26.960 the minority government, but there have been 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.480 some defections. They're very close to majority 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:33.399 now. At this point in time, they're only one 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:36.139 seat away, right? They've had a couple of Conservatives 00:11:36.139 --> 00:11:38.539 members switch. I think a Conservatives resigned. 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.779 So they might shortly be in the place of forming 00:11:43.779 --> 00:11:46.759 a majority government, which would bring stability 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:49.840 as well at a very important time. But I think 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.919 the country is still fairly unified. That this 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:58.980 is a time to build Canada. Yeah, when I moved 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.340 back to Canada in March, I was a little bit surprised 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:07.779 at the level of anger that there is towards the 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:11.519 U .S. administration. That anger is still there 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.419 under the surface. And it's led to some real 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:21.190 changes and it's maybe given Canada a kick. that 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:24.110 it needed. And there's a moment now where there's 00:12:24.110 --> 00:12:27.169 a bit of momentum to make some changes that probably 00:12:27.169 --> 00:12:31.690 needed to be made. And there's political will 00:12:31.690 --> 00:12:36.629 now to make those changes. Bill C -5 is a great 00:12:36.629 --> 00:12:40.129 example of an attempt to meet the moment and 00:12:40.129 --> 00:12:44.529 address some of the challenges. And that's the 00:12:44.529 --> 00:12:49.210 Building Canada Act, of course. And it has changed. 00:12:49.870 --> 00:12:52.830 It appears the landscape for how major projects 00:12:52.830 --> 00:12:57.230 will get approved and virtually all of them will 00:12:57.230 --> 00:13:01.990 involve meaningful Indigenous partnerships. With 00:13:01.990 --> 00:13:05.190 the time this has happened in Canada, and I think 00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:09.429 it's nearly, is it a decade after the Truth and 00:13:09.429 --> 00:13:15.049 Reconciliation? Yes, 10 years. 10 years. The 00:13:15.049 --> 00:13:18.889 Indigenous peoples of Canada are rights holders 00:13:18.889 --> 00:13:22.610 now. If this had happened 20 years ago in the 00:13:22.610 --> 00:13:25.009 first free trade agreement back in the 90s, you 00:13:25.009 --> 00:13:26.649 know, the Indigenous peoples did not have a seat 00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:29.669 at the table then. So much has changed in Canada 00:13:29.669 --> 00:13:35.129 that actually this is a very unique time. And 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:39.269 it's great that the Indigenous people do have 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:41.730 a seat at the table and can contribute to the 00:13:41.730 --> 00:13:44.990 land that others have come to share and prosper 00:13:44.990 --> 00:13:49.120 from. So Canada has a unique opportunity. to 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:53.179 build the country everybody wants it to be realizing 00:13:53.179 --> 00:13:55.460 its full potential for all canadians whether 00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:59.720 indigenous or non -indigenous and hopefully we'll 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.320 continue to seize this moments but i i think 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:07.059 over a hundred billion dollars in terms of projects 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:09.840 are have been referred to the major projects 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.980 office i mean this is this is a huge opportunity 00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:17.269 It's yet to be seen whether this office will 00:14:17.269 --> 00:14:20.330 just be another layer of bureaucracy or whether 00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:24.269 they will really have the tools and whether they 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:26.129 really will streamline things. There have been 00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:29.789 some moves to streamline legislation and the 00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:32.350 feds are deferring more and more to the provinces 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:35.149 in terms of environmental and impact assessments. 00:14:37.409 --> 00:14:40.350 So they are addressing some of the duplication. 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:45.480 And you're right, so much has changed in Canada. 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.139 Indigenous people have never, I don't think, 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:53.039 had as much leverage and power. The courts are 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:58.340 very supportive. The law is more and more supportive. 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.340 Government policy is supportive. And business 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:05.179 is coming to understand the advantages that come 00:15:05.179 --> 00:15:10.100 with involving Indigenous partners. All of that 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:14.159 together means that... We're talking about major 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.120 projects and other things. It's almost, you can't 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.539 conceive of those being done today without serious, 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:26.620 meaningful Indigenous partnerships. Yes, that's 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:29.759 true. Well, as I mentioned in this next clip, 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.159 the days of offering a royalty check or a few 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:34.960 jobs are gone. That's not enough anymore. Indigenous 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.539 people want to understand the business. They 00:15:38.539 --> 00:15:40.360 want to be part of the decision -making. They 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.370 want to be at the... board table and to be part 00:15:43.370 --> 00:15:45.809 of the planning. And it's more than that. They 00:15:45.809 --> 00:15:49.549 just don't want to be. They are. Right. Finally, 00:15:49.789 --> 00:15:54.169 rights holders. Right. And what are some of the 00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:55.990 benefits the Indigenous people are looking at 00:15:55.990 --> 00:16:00.190 with these projects? Let's move on to that side. 00:16:00.429 --> 00:16:04.570 How do they see their role? Once the project's 00:16:04.570 --> 00:16:06.870 agreed and they're supportive of it, they're 00:16:06.870 --> 00:16:09.149 not just looking to be, oh, good, we've got to 00:16:09.149 --> 00:16:12.419 share the... project as as rights holders they 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:16.980 want development for their community there's 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:19.259 a whole question of infrastructure that hasn't 00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:23.460 been provided still after all these years in 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:26.700 their community so there's a number of uh items 00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.899 on their list can you talk about some of those 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:34.919 yeah for sure the days the days of promising 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.460 some jobs or or some sort of Royalty or revenue 00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:43.120 stream from a project that might affect Indigenous 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:48.299 peoples I think are long gone. And Indigenous 00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:50.379 people want a seat at the table. They want to 00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.500 understand the business. They want to be a part 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:55.759 of the business, the decision -making, the planning. 00:16:57.139 --> 00:17:01.519 They want the infrastructure to benefit their 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:06.079 communities as well. There's a massive infrastructure 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:11.259 gap. within Indigenous communities around Canada. 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.119 They want a seat at the board table. They want 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:22.759 participation. And they want their sovereignty 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:29.079 respected as well. Wow. So it's a transformative 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.220 opportunity for the country and for the Indigenous 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:35.940 peoples as well. Because if we thread the needle, 00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:38.839 And I say we, because we as a country have to 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:45.160 do that. If we're successful, the fabric of the 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.880 land called Canada is going to be stronger than 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:53.839 it ever has been. Absolutely. And we'll be a 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.420 real unique country. I know the Commonwealth, 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:01.160 Rob, when we had some of our Indigenous leaders 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.839 come over to the summit this past year, and we're 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.319 fortunate to join the... Commonwealth Trade Investment 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.220 Summit, there was a lot of interest there from 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:12.279 other Commonwealth nations about how Canadian 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.779 Indigenous people had got to this position. And 00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:19.160 some of it's historic with treaties, but it's 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.220 also because there's a whole generation enabled 00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.240 and empowered, such as people like yourselves 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.940 and others, who are in those non -Indigenous 00:18:25.940 --> 00:18:28.559 organizations shaping those decisions. So I think 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.799 there's a lot of lessons for the world on this. 00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:35.269 Canada, which always likes to present itself 00:18:35.269 --> 00:18:41.849 as a progressive nation in other terms, this 00:18:41.849 --> 00:18:45.750 is a chance for us really to demonstrate to the 00:18:45.750 --> 00:18:52.710 world about how can a country with strong Indigenous 00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:55.950 people and rights, how can it all come together 00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:58.470 to be something more than the sum of its parts. 00:18:59.589 --> 00:19:02.009 We've talked a lot this year, Mark, about the 00:19:02.009 --> 00:19:05.710 scale of investment that Canada needs, and it's 00:19:05.710 --> 00:19:08.789 massive. The numbers are mind -boggling. Hundreds 00:19:08.789 --> 00:19:11.769 of billions of dollars of projects in the pipeline, 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:17.609 from LNG terminals to nuclear expansion and critical 00:19:17.609 --> 00:19:25.670 minerals mining, endless major projects. Yes, 00:19:25.670 --> 00:19:28.890 reinforcing the richness of the natural resources 00:19:28.890 --> 00:19:32.130 of Canada as a country. The natural resources 00:19:32.130 --> 00:19:35.569 and other opportunities that the land called 00:19:35.569 --> 00:19:38.490 Canada offers is huge. But the common thread 00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:43.670 is that every single one requires meaningful 00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:46.750 Indigenous partnerships to succeed. Yeah, and 00:19:46.750 --> 00:19:50.650 that's built right into the legislation. And 00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:53.250 there are challenges to that legislation. It 00:19:53.250 --> 00:19:56.569 was rushed. They fast -tracked the fast -track 00:19:56.569 --> 00:20:00.970 legislation. And there are issues with the way 00:20:00.970 --> 00:20:05.970 they went about it. But the bottom line is we 00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:10.450 will test that, their sincerity, about involving 00:20:10.450 --> 00:20:16.309 Indigenous partners. And I've told clients that... 00:20:17.309 --> 00:20:19.450 They already have so much leverage, Indigenous 00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:24.289 people, that with or without Bill C -5, these 00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:26.690 projects aren't getting done without Indigenous 00:20:26.690 --> 00:20:32.589 partners. Yes, and the projects that are getting 00:20:32.589 --> 00:20:35.130 done now, like Cedar LNG and others, have Indigenous 00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:38.789 partners, and everybody's talking about how quickly 00:20:38.789 --> 00:20:42.410 you then get to market. Absolutely. I've got 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:45.250 a real live case. We're acting for a group in 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:47.930 British Columbia called Cool Power, a group of 00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:52.589 First Nations. And they are the 50 -50 partner 00:20:52.589 --> 00:20:55.109 on the North Coast Transmission Line, which is 00:20:55.109 --> 00:20:57.549 one of the major projects in British Columbia, 00:20:57.670 --> 00:21:00.430 a new transmission line in the north, connecting 00:21:00.430 --> 00:21:06.289 mines and LNG terminals. In that case, Cool Power, 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:11.190 because they're a 50 -50 partner. are comfortable 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:14.390 foregoing some of the environmental and impact 00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:18.349 assessment processes. They say, we understand 00:21:18.349 --> 00:21:20.329 the land better than anybody. We know where the 00:21:20.329 --> 00:21:22.390 issues are. We don't need to spend two or three 00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:25.589 years hiring consultants to tell us what we already 00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:27.789 know. So let's just get straight to the point 00:21:27.789 --> 00:21:29.650 and deal with those issues now. They're going 00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:32.970 to cut two or three years off the usual timeline. 00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:37.059 Cool Power is just one example, but also built 00:21:37.059 --> 00:21:40.440 into the new legislation is the Indigenous Advisory 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:46.220 Council and a council of 10 or so Indigenous, 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:52.339 First Nations, Métis, Inuit members who will 00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:55.819 advise the Major Projects Office and hopefully 00:21:55.819 --> 00:22:00.200 ensure that the consultation and partnership. 00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:07.119 And meaningful involvement is taking place. And 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.099 hopefully they'll be able to facilitate those 00:22:10.099 --> 00:22:13.279 Indigenous partnerships. It's an all -star lineup 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:18.039 of people who've got a lot of experience in development 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.660 and economic development generally. Yes, great 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:26.180 lineup. Interesting, because you have over 600 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:33.549 First Nations Inuit. and Métis as well in Canada. 00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:39.109 And what was their view about the IAC being set 00:22:39.109 --> 00:22:42.670 up? Well, there's still a debate within the Indigenous 00:22:42.670 --> 00:22:46.690 community about this whole fast -track process. 00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:50.609 I was at the Assembly of First Nations national 00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:55.609 meeting in Winnipeg recently, and even there, 00:22:55.650 --> 00:22:59.410 there's debate about whether... The concerns 00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:03.210 about whether fast -track process will short 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:09.690 -circuit consultation rights that Indigenous 00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:14.150 people have fought hard for over the years. There's 00:23:14.150 --> 00:23:20.670 a concern that there'll be shortcuts taken and 00:23:20.670 --> 00:23:29.279 some of those rights lost. the legislation to 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.819 be clearer and they want more explicit consultation 00:23:34.819 --> 00:23:40.140 and veto rights for these major projects there 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:44.319 are others who want to get on and believe that 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:51.720 there's enough leverage now within the existing 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.960 laws the constitutional rights other rights that 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:59.000 major projects within the territories of Indigenous 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.980 peoples will not be able to be completed without 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:07.500 a meaningful involvement of those Indigenous 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.660 peoples. It's certainly a change even with all 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:15.059 those questions. Given this is Prime Minister 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:18.720 Carney's major initiative under his leadership 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.740 in terms of changing the direction of the economic 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:26.140 growth in Canada, not only to continue growing. 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.960 but also who our trading partners are and diversifying 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.980 that. There is merit that an Indigenous Advisory 00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.519 Council has been set up at all because historically 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:41.240 that has never happened. The first continental 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.859 railway in North America, many of our listeners 00:24:44.859 --> 00:24:48.279 might not know, is actually the Canadian railway 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.039 that went coast to coast, was not built with 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.119 an Indigenous Advisory Council or participation 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.910 whatsoever. It was there to unite the country, 00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:04.349 Poland, British Columbia, to confederation. And 00:25:04.349 --> 00:25:07.529 it was a race to get it built against the railway 00:25:07.529 --> 00:25:12.089 south of the border. So I think that does, at 00:25:12.089 --> 00:25:15.049 least establishing the IEC, says something's 00:25:15.049 --> 00:25:18.650 changed. And then, of course, later in the year, 00:25:18.730 --> 00:25:22.470 it took the new Liberal government longer than 00:25:22.470 --> 00:25:25.170 people had hoped to produce their first budget. 00:25:25.819 --> 00:25:30.900 But we had that this fall. And again, one of 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:35.640 the big issues is dealing with the tariffs in 00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:39.660 the U .S. and how do we cope and what's Canada's 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:44.799 response. And there was reference in the budget 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.019 to wanting to look for reliable partners. I think 00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:54.319 that was a dig. You think so? Subtle. Not very 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:58.990 subtle. But yeah, what happens when your biggest 00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:02.430 trading relationship becomes unreliable? Absolutely 00:26:02.430 --> 00:26:06.390 amazing. Who would have ever thought, okay, at 00:26:06.390 --> 00:26:13.910 this point in time, in 2025, the United States 00:26:13.910 --> 00:26:16.710 of America would be perceived as an unreliable 00:26:16.710 --> 00:26:22.930 ally or certainly not a dependable ally. And 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.109 nobody wants to wait to find out. Is that a true 00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:29.849 statement or not? But Carney, as you said, he 00:26:29.849 --> 00:26:32.509 and there was a lot of pressure because everybody 00:26:32.509 --> 00:26:35.569 expected he got elected. He'd been in the office. 00:26:35.789 --> 00:26:38.910 He took over. He won the election, became prime 00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:40.450 minister. Everybody expected, OK, there's going 00:26:40.450 --> 00:26:43.210 to be a summer budget. And it wasn't. It didn't 00:26:43.210 --> 00:26:47.089 come till the autumn. But, you know, his background 00:26:47.089 --> 00:26:49.210 is knowing how to run big organizations, the 00:26:49.210 --> 00:26:51.569 governor of the Bank of England, Brookfield. 00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:55.190 He knows what it takes to compete globally. So 00:26:55.190 --> 00:26:59.230 I think we can look back and say he was obviously 00:26:59.230 --> 00:27:03.490 putting the game plan in place that he thought 00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:09.829 the country needs to achieve the vision of remaining 00:27:09.829 --> 00:27:14.509 part of the liberal democratic order about shared 00:27:14.509 --> 00:27:19.049 prosperity with people around the world. Yeah, 00:27:19.069 --> 00:27:21.410 and of course you and I, Mark, having lived in... 00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:26.650 in London for decades are well aware of the importance 00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:32.289 of diversifying your trading relationships. But 00:27:32.289 --> 00:27:37.930 when you have such an enormous economic powerhouse 00:27:37.930 --> 00:27:41.309 that is the U .S. at your doorstep, it's understandable 00:27:41.309 --> 00:27:45.609 that you start to focus solely on that relationship. 00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:50.190 But it was one of the kicks that Canada got, 00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:53.250 I think, this year. We need to diversify. Yes, 00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:55.650 well, you're living through a number of traumas. 00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:58.750 Unfortunately, Rob, you were experiencing Brexit 00:27:58.750 --> 00:28:02.250 here where the UK chose to leave its closest 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:04.130 trading partner. Now you've ended up in Canada 00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:06.109 where its closest trading partner said, you know, 00:28:06.170 --> 00:28:09.390 we want what you got. And if you got anything 00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:13.740 left, we're going to take it anyway. Yeah. What 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:16.559 do we do? No, not traumatic. I'd say it makes 00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:20.160 life interesting. Okay. And for fun discussions 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.980 at the pub. That's for sure. That's for sure. 00:28:24.019 --> 00:28:25.980 I'm glad you're still continuing to go to a pub 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:30.519 back in Canada. But this focus on trading partners 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.599 outside North America, here's what we said about 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.559 that. Absolutely. I think it hits. For international 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.829 investors, I think this is, yeah, this is. probably 00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:47.650 the number one issue for them that might change 00:28:47.650 --> 00:28:49.950 their view about investing in Canada, about the 00:28:49.950 --> 00:28:53.150 likelihood of success in investing in Canada. 00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:57.529 It's more evidence of the importance of Indigenous 00:28:57.529 --> 00:29:00.809 peoples and engaging with Indigenous communities. 00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:04.250 I think business is already ahead of that curve 00:29:04.250 --> 00:29:07.329 anyway. I think they understand the value that... 00:29:08.340 --> 00:29:11.440 Indigenous people bring to their projects. And 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.500 so it's not just a question of what are we, what 00:29:14.500 --> 00:29:17.740 do we have to do to comply with the law? I think 00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:20.380 more companies are appreciating if they want 00:29:20.380 --> 00:29:23.740 a successful project, they need local engagement 00:29:23.740 --> 00:29:28.339 with the Indigenous people. Yes. So that's kind 00:29:28.339 --> 00:29:31.279 of, if you're a successful company today or you're 00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:34.259 working on a project in Canada, you're probably 00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.000 already working with the Indigenous peoples. 00:29:37.819 --> 00:29:39.980 community concerned and you know the importance 00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:43.000 of that. This is just how do you speed up the 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.059 process because they already know the way to 00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.839 succeed and businesses want to succeed long -term. 00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:52.599 With the investment in natural resources or hydro 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.380 or energy or all the defense issues now being 00:29:56.380 --> 00:29:59.160 discussed, you want to work with good long -term 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.299 partners and the indigenous people have proven 00:30:01.299 --> 00:30:05.579 that time and time again. So, I think for foreign 00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:07.759 investors, international investors, it remains, 00:30:08.059 --> 00:30:12.480 do what needs to be done. Do your homework. Get 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:18.200 engaged early. And you will have the best opportunity 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.099 to succeed. But there will be a budget this autumn. 00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:27.660 It's been identified. Carney has said that we're 00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:31.900 going to run a deficit to get a lot of this necessary 00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:35.519 investment done. which again reinforces Canada 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.319 has a strong balance sheet. If you look at it 00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:42.880 and share it, that is percent of GDP. Even though 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:44.579 there's been a lot of spending in the past few 00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:47.400 years, Canada still is in a very good position 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:52.240 for long -term investments. So if they're made 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.720 in the right place on infrastructure and natural 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.019 resources and energy, that's all good for the 00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:04.150 economy and for investors. Defense investments. 00:31:04.990 --> 00:31:11.390 We live in troubled times. And defense brings 00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:14.309 good jobs. Of course, you don't want to have 00:31:14.309 --> 00:31:18.589 to use it. But if you don't have it, you're going 00:31:18.589 --> 00:31:21.009 to be in a desperate spot. So I think that's 00:31:21.009 --> 00:31:24.150 even more positive for foreign investors looking 00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:28.369 that Canada is finally starting to really be 00:31:28.369 --> 00:31:31.890 serious about what needs to be done. to secure 00:31:31.890 --> 00:31:35.269 its place, not only in North America, the southern 00:31:35.269 --> 00:31:37.690 neighbor, but also its place in the world and 00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:41.769 make a stronger contribution to NATO, to the 00:31:41.769 --> 00:31:45.029 Arctic. New icebreakers are coming, have been 00:31:45.029 --> 00:31:47.069 commissioned, which is all great. So it looks 00:31:47.069 --> 00:31:51.269 like a lot going on. So as everyone is celebrating 00:31:51.269 --> 00:31:53.789 Christmas today, we don't want to keep you longer 00:31:53.789 --> 00:31:58.069 listening to us. But as we wrap up and look back 00:31:58.069 --> 00:32:02.539 at 2025. I just want to say thank you to everyone 00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:04.420 who's listened, who's engaged and come along 00:32:04.420 --> 00:32:09.240 with this journey with us. And Rob, I'll give 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.920 you the final words. Well, it's a big thank you 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.619 for me as well, Mark. I've really enjoyed the 00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:20.140 year working with you and C1 and the whole team 00:32:20.140 --> 00:32:26.240 at Drum Beats. The year has shown us all just 00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.799 how much is possible when the right partnerships 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.789 come together. And the importance of stepping 00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:34.349 back, recharging, looking after yourself and 00:32:34.349 --> 00:32:38.789 those around you is all important. So I'm just 00:32:38.789 --> 00:32:41.150 wishing everyone a peaceful Christmas, a restful 00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:44.210 holiday season, and the best for the new year. 00:32:45.049 --> 00:32:47.210 Yes, absolutely. And we'll be back in the new 00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:51.970 year. Until then, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, 00:32:52.049 --> 00:32:52.250 everyone.