Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant
and I continue the engaging discussion in this
second podcast with former Chief O 'Rea Crowfoot
of Siksika Nation in Alberta, Canada. We get
into the specific investment opportunities and
how international capital can engage with First
Nations at scale. Today's conversation covers
SIGZIGA's real asset portfolio, infrastructure
assets like bridges, pipelines, and hotels, such
as a 35 % stake in the Kananaskis launch, where
the G -Summit was recently held by Prime Minister
Mark Carney on behalf of the Government of Canada.
You'll discover why Siksika is generating 2 to
300 million in annual excess capital and where
that money is being deployed. Chief O 'Reilly
Crowfoot also shares his vision for a 100 million
private equity account focused on emerging sectors
like AI, following the model of Colorado's Southern
Utah, who managed a $13 billion trust. For UK
and continental European investors, this is particularly
insightful. You'll hear Chief Crowfoot's direct
interest. in the upcoming Canadian Indigenous
Investment Summit, his framework for evaluating
international partnerships, and critically, how
to actually present opportunities to Siksika
and other capital -rich First Nations. When a
community is filling opportunities from Australia,
New Zealand, China, and beyond, understand how
to properly engage becomes essential to winning
the business. You'll also hear why Chief Orei
Crowfoot believes First Nations must be at the
table, not on the menu. and what that means for
institutional capital seeking to invest in Canada.
With some of the investments that your nation
has made, where are you putting some of that
money to get those returns over time? Right now,
the bulk of our money are in our investment managers.
And so we have a wide variety in our portfolio.
We have some non -liquid assets as well, such
as hotels, investing in some of these assets,
such as bridges, pipelines, that kind of stuff.
We've had trust accounts for two, three decades
at 69, two decades at least. But this one here
is pretty unique. And so right now, right now,
it's not like winning the lottery, but it kind
of is because up until now, our Treasury Board.
essentially was just rolling budgets you know
like we didn't we weren't making enough money
from our other trusts to really kind of plan
other than to subsidize our lack of federal funding
and so we didn't have we weren't bringing in
200 300 million dollars of excess dollars annually
as we are now and so now you know we have to
train up our treasury board we have to train
up our council you know because now you have
a greater fiduciary You have greater fiduciary
liabilities, more money, more problems kind of
thing. And so initially, my initial goal was
saying, you know what, let's start out with two
investment managers. So we have one RBC Trust
investment managers and then TD investment managers.
And they had similar portfolios, but a little
bit different. And so our goal, my goal is. As
we grow our treasure board, as we grow that knowledge
of investing to become a lot more specialized,
you know, like, you know, now we're looking at
a small cap manager or but we haven't got there
yet. You know, I didn't want to bring on, you
know, hey, this is our emerging markets guy.
This is our growth guy. This is our small caps
guy, you know. Let's have two initial, you know,
and so everybody on the reserve was comfortable
with the RBCs and the TDs and the BMO, the big
banks, right? And so let's bring those on initially.
So we brought those two on initially and said,
okay, now as we train people up, let's bring
in a growth guy. Let's bring in an emerging markets
guy. So I think that's the plan in the next few
years. to start getting more specialized in our
areas of investing. But we haven't gotten there
yet either. And now that I'm not chief, maybe
I'm speaking out of turn, but I would love to
see Sixie God develop its own private equity
account on its own, where they said, you know
what? Yeah, this bigger trust is for all these
other things, but let's pull $100 million or
whatever out of that and put it in, you know.
Some more non -liquid type investments, whether
that be AI, whatever that may be, right? But
we have to have a whole team. We got to have
a team of that strategy as well. And I won't
take, it's not my fully idea. I saw this with
the Southern Utes down in Colorado. They have
a, I don't know, $13, $14 billion trust account,
USD. And, you know, just for example, in the
U .S. right now, you know, Trump shut down the
government. He cut off the program called SNAP,
which, you know, doesn't just affect First Nation.
It was essentially like a foods program for the
less fortunate. And so you never know. You never
know what's going to be shut off. And so in conversations
with some of these guys from the Southern Utes,
that was their whole plan is like, you know,
we want to be able to have this. our own private
equity account. So if anything goes awry, we
can fully rely upon ourselves. And we have that
full reliance upon our own earnings, our own
equity. Now we're going towards that direction,
but we've only been in this billionaire's club
for two years. And so I think there's a lot of
opportunities for 60 Guy if guided the right
way. And although I'm not the chief right now
and I've only not been chief less than a week.
And so I haven't even had time to come up with
a plan of like, OK, what's what's next steps?
But I did tell my cousin and again, it's easier
because he's my cousin, but I don't want to rely
on it because he's my cousin. But I said, look,
if you need some financial guidance, you know,
I can kind of help out for a little while. But
but we need to develop that outside of the Treasury
Board, you know, like. Look at examples such
as the Southern Utes and what are we going to
do to build another kind of growth? We do have
an economic development corporation on the reserve.
And they have some investments in hotels like
the Kananaskis Lodge where they had the G7 Summit.
We're 35 % owners of that hotel. We're 95 % owners
of another hotel. It's called the Westin over
here in Calgary by the airport. at least 50 %
owners in a few other hotels. So we have a decent
hospitality portfolio, but we also need to diversify
that portfolio out a little bit more. And so
we've already started a little bit. We're not
calling that a growth fund, but it's essentially
our own private equity kind of account. But I
think we need to build that out a little bit
more. Fascinating. So a lot of our audience over
here be thinking, well, how do we go present
ourselves? How do we get on your roster? Because
I'm sure you're going to look at global talent,
right? Not just in the neighborhood. Exactly.
So who do they contact? What's the email? What's
the package you want to see? Yeah, for sure.
As of right now, you can send that stuff to me
and I can kind of try to forward it. We're hiring
a CEO as we speak for the AgDev Corporation.
And so, you know, we're growing. That's good
and bad. We've got some growing pains, you know,
but we're trying to, you know, trying to find
that right fit with those people that can understand
these different portfolios. Because up until
now, we've primarily focused on the reserve.
And that's been the primary focus. But now that
we've, you know, you have a B behind your name
instead of an M behind your name, you start getting
the phone calls from Australia, from New Zealand,
from all over the world about, you know, different
opportunities. And if you're not equipped to
be able to kind of like sort out these opportunities
and even have a strategy to say, OK, these are
the kind of opportunities we want in our portfolio.
Then you start kind of saying, oh, every shiny
object, you start bouncing between. And so do
we want to go coal over here or do we want to
go oil? Do we want to go renewable? What do we
want to do? Guys, guys, we're reacting on whoever's
calling. We got to not be reactive. We got to
be proactive. And so I think one of the things
that we need to do is build out our team to be
more proactive. instead of reactive because again
like you said as a when you when you start hearing
of some of these first nations that have a b
behind their name and there's there's actually
starting to be a few out of the 660 odd first
nation in canada unfortunately the bulk of them
are still in the poverty area unfortunately but
fortunately there are a handful of first nations
That are leading the area in exporting or ports
or whatever it may be. And so you are starting
to see First Nations that people are taking more
serious and people are saying, wow, you know
what? You know, we have a chief that's I think
I'm the first chief in Canada history at the
CPA. I haven't I haven't I haven't did the full
Google search on it. But but, you know, like
and work, I've worked for two of the big four
accounting firms and. And so, you know, that
kind of knowledge, I don't think you have to
be a CPA or you have to be an investment banker
or you have to be a lawyer to be a chief, but
it doesn't hurt. I mean, I think that's the direction
that some of these First Nations are moving towards.
You're seeing more younger, educated chiefs.
So, you know, some of the older chiefs, they
bring a lot of that traditional knowledge, which
is key as well. You know, you need to have that
traditional blend. And that's what I said before.
My mom was like, you know, you got to have a
drum in one hand and the computer in the other
hand, because if you just have all the modern
day, you know, KPMG and all that knowledge, but
no traditional knowledge, you're in the same
boat as a non First Nation person. So you need
to have that balance. And so some of those older
chiefs, I think they're starting to have more
liaisons or advisors that are versed up. But
I think teams are, I think First Nations are
now starting to build up those. And the direction,
in my opinion, direction that Canada's moving,
I do feel like Canada's going to be, now this
is my personal opinion based on my experience,
but I think Canada's drive is going to be towards
moving away from the Indian Act. And moving away
from funding First Nations, we're going to, quote
unquote, get out of the Indian business. So I
do think that's going to happen or Canada is
going to try for that to happen in the next 10
years. And so First Nations, in my opinion, need
to start saying, OK, you know what? If that happens
or something towards that direction happens,
we need to be prepared. We need to have. We need
to have our own accounts. We need to have our
own funding. And, you know, people say, oh, that'll
never happen. Well, look down in the States.
I mean, you know, shutting off SNAP and shutting
off certain programs, although that wasn't First
Nation exactly directed, it has a big impact
on a lot of First Nations. And if you don't have
your own resources, if you don't have your own,
less that reliance upon the government, you're
going to be in a bad spot. And so, you know,
even though we have the billion now. We need
to have the $4 billion. You know, we need to
have those reserves built up and our resources
built up. Just, you know, if it doesn't happen,
fine, you know, but you need to be ready for
that kind of movement. And I think that that's
where you see some like net resource sharing,
some equity inclusion. And I think now First
Nations are getting more savvy when it comes
to the business part. And, you know. being connected
with some of these corporations. I think 20,
30, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, I don't think
a lot of First Nations would have said, you know,
let's go to this economic summit in England.
Why would we go to an economic summit in England?
Why would we even leave our local communities,
right? But now, you know, especially with COVID
and some of these negatives, we can look at these
negatives and go, Well, even right now, you know,
I don't think we would have had this podcast
across the pond if we didn't have COVID. You
know, like, so you take some of these negative
situations and you say, well, how can we make
the best out of them? And so, you know, our world
through AI, through technology, through whatever
it may be, the world's getting smaller and smaller.
You know, like, you know, again, 20 years ago.
I don't think we would even consider business
in Switzerland or business in Japan or business
in China or anywhere outside of Canada. And now
you are seeing First Nations. Me and a small
group of our six guys, we went to China two years
ago. We looked at a business opportunity in Shanghai.
It ended up not working out, but not because
it was in China, because the economic environment,
the political environment kind of made it difficult.
those kind of things so there's barriers there
but i think first nations now are starting to
say let's look at let's go to china let's go
to new zealand let's go to england and um and
and they're coming here you know like um i know
that one of these uh coal mines by the eastern
slopes an australian company owned it at one
point and um i ended up not panning out but you
know again there's australians that are meeting
with 60 god there's there's um The world is not
as big as it used to be. Our technology has made
it a lot smaller. And I think the global economy,
again, even the Trump stuff, because Canada may
not want to admit it, but they were pretty reliant
upon the U .S. for everything. Jokingly, the
51st state comments, I'm Canadian and I'm American,
so I can kind of see on both sides. Now, Canada
takes a lot of pride in being Canada, and they'll
never be a 51st state. But they did act like
a 51st state. And so by some of these comments
that President Trump's made, it's forced Canada
to say, wow, we are pretty reliant upon the U
.S. How do we become less reliant on the U .S.?
How can we, you know, we need to build our own
because Canada has a lot of natural resources,
a lot of oil, a lot of gold, a lot of a lot of
all these a lot of a lot of the fresh water.
You know, a lot of these natural resources come
from Canada. And a lot of these natural resources
are in First Nations communities. And so, you
know, before 30, 40, 50 years ago, these corporations
would come on and honestly take advantage of
First Nations and exploit First Nations. But
now I think a lot of these chiefs and councils
and executives and advisors on these First Nations
are more business savvy. And so now they're saying,
look, we don't mind being partners. We want to
be partners with you. But we want to be partners.
We don't want to be exploited. So, you know,
if we can come up with some partnerships that
are equitable, you know, some equitable treatment,
then we're open for business. And that's the
attitude Siksik has. You know, we're open for
business. We want to partner up with corporations
and the like, partnerships with, you know, I've
made a lot of connections through the multiple.
business CEOs and business leaders in Calgary
and Canada. And I wanted to know our name. You
know, I wanted to be, I wore this shirt almost
as a, you know, this is my uniform as chief,
even though it's a polo. But, you know, it was
branded. You know, everywhere I went, they knew
who 60 Guy was. They knew who Chief Crowfoot
was. And I want, you know, the ATCOs, the TC
Energies, all these major corporations. When
they say, who do we go talk to? I want six. You
got to be at the front of their mind, you know,
and there's a saying either at the table or you're
on the menu. And so we've been on the menu long
enough. We want to be at the table. And so I
think that's the attitude. I can't speak for
all the First Nations, but I think that's the
attitude that I'm seeing as I go to these major
projects, these major coalitions and these major
expansions, not just in Canada, but worldwide
is, you know. We want to be at that conversation.
So I've never been to the economic summit in
London. But if I go this year, I'll be really
looking forward to it because I love to see the
mindset and who's out there and the connectivities.
And because when it comes to that, especially
native world, it's a small group that that interconnected.
And so, you know, by having that small group
interconnected, you know. A lot of business can
be done, in my opinion. Love it. Love those messages.
All right. So one other question. With everything
you're talking about, the excitement, and you
were very fortunate. You have been very fortunate
in your own career. You've obviously worked hard
to achieve it. But you recognize what needed
to be done. What about capacity building for
the younger members? We used to hire only people
from Siksika. When I first started, they only
hired people from Siksika. And I'm all for hiring
our own people. But now we're a billion dollar,
multi -billion dollar First Nation. So, you know,
we need to bring on expertise. And so we did
have to bring on people that weren't from 69,
weren't First Nations. And, you know, in these
roles as CPA, as CFO and the like, right? Now,
I want to train up our own people. i want to
train up engineers we need engineers we need
accountants we need in all these areas of professionalism
one of the things that we're fortunate as we
have a college at six ago and we've also made
a stance um like i said before my mother was
a big pusher of education and one of the things
that um in the funding arrangement that canada
has They had this funding formula, if you will.
And, you know, here's how we're going to fund
First Nations going to going to post -secondary
university. And, you know, we're going to we're
going to prioritize them by, you know, this,
this, this and this. And, you know, just for
example, a young lady went three years of university
and then she had a baby or something happened.
or her mother got sick or, or some kid's father
got sick or whatever it may be. And they had
to take a year off. Well, now they're not priority
one. Now they're priority four or five or whatnot.
Right. And so maybe they don't get funded anymore
because you know, you only get X amount of funds.
Right. And so a lot of people we saw were, you
know, had two, three years of university under
their belt, but. They never went back to school
after that. And, you know, I started asking around.
I was like, well, why didn't you finish? Well,
we didn't get funded, you know, and I was once
you're placed in priority five or six, you know,
chances of going back up to priority one are
slim. And so we made a motion at our council,
I think maybe five years back, four or five years
back, that we're going to fund every student
at 60 Guy based on old son's criteria. not based
on Canada's Indian Affairs' criteria. Now, again,
those dollars came out of our pocket. And every
First Nation doesn't have that luxury of saying,
we're going to fund our students. We're going
to fund all of our students. But I saw that as
a necessity. I saw that as an investment. If
we don't invest in our kids and we don't invest
in that education, then how can we be upset when
we don't have... when we don't have doctors,
when we don't have lawyers, when we don't have
all these professional areas that we lacked,
if we don't provide those opportunities. And
now, again, you know, another saying that I'm
kind of known for saying is, you know, I'm a
big believer in a hand up, not a hand out. There's
a lot of barriers, not just First Nation people,
but a lot of barriers our young people have today.
And so if we can remove some of those barriers.
And one of them being a barrier for education,
then it just takes less of that stress off of
that person. You know, and so that's one of the
things we've announced. We've announced that,
you know, we're funding all of our students right
now at 60 Guy. So a lot of that we won't necessarily
see those dividends till maybe four or five years.
You know, you have to cycle through some university.
But I'm a firm believer that, you know, that's
going to pay off big down the road. You know,
the more the more people we have graduating from
university, the more people we have. And even
in high school. So, you know, if if we make that
announcement at post -secondary and we're going
to fund all of our post -secondary students,
then somebody that's in high school, they might
have thought, well, our family just don't go
to college. We just don't go to university. And
that's the that's the thinking on some on some
First Nations is, you know, what what's the use?
Why do we go to university? If, you know, we're
not going to. get funded the whole way through
or something's going to happen. And so, you know,
we're trying to instill some of those conversations
in grade eight, grade nine, grade 10, and not
wait for post -secondary, not wait for them to
get into college. So those are some of the proactive
kind of measures that we're taking now. And then
the ones that are in, say some of the, we have,
so even like with engineering, we have our own
engineering department at 60 Guy. And I don't
think many First Nations have their own engineering
department. And again, it takes dollars to do
these things, you know, like and so a lot of
First Nations and even us, you know, 10 years
ago, you know, we were fully relying on whatever
engineer came on to do the work, you know, and
a lot of times with Indian Affairs or Indigenous
Services Canada, you know, it's, hey, you have
to take the lowest bid. You have to take the
cheapest guy. And so we were building, you know.
Because we had to, because that's all we had
available was those funds from the federal government.
And the federal government saying you have to
get the cheapest person, then you're going to
get the cheapest quality product. And, you know,
you're going to have buildings tearing down,
houses tearing down, roads not the best quality.
And so we created our own engineering department,
our own engineering team. Again, that's funded
by us. And so we've also now we have a few students.
that are in university now or have recently graduated
that can be mentored through our own engineering
department. And so, you know, we're starting
to see some of those dividends already pay off.
But I think that's more of a long -term payoff
than it is a short -term payoff. And so, again,
when I went back and said, you know what, it's
not about the $1 .3 billion. It's about the opportunities
that, you know, because, you know, it's not all
about the money. But without money, you can't
do these programs. You can't do these initiatives.
You can't do these incentives. And so we want
to be able to incentivize some of our people,
and not just the distribution, but rent assistance.
That's a big issue across the world. It's not
just First Nation people, but everybody is trying
to find affordable housing and trying to find
somewhere to rent. And so that's a program that
we're working on. I'm not the chief anymore,
so I can't commit to that. But we are working
on, you know, some rent assistance and those
kind of things. And so I think the more of these
barriers that we kind of either break down or
remove, the better the payout is going to be
for our people down the road. Yes. Well, thank
you for that. And I think you've just reinforced
some of the most competitive firms and individuals.
that Canada has today are the Indigenous peoples
who are engaged and leading. And Canada needs
to relearn the ability to compete on the world
stage. So I'm sure you and your colleagues will
be contributing that. But, Ore, it's been a pleasure
to have you on here. And I think it also demonstrates
the benefit of being in a nice place where you
are to be able to look out at white snow for...
most of the year to to think of look at what
you've achieved perhaps if you've been down south
still in north carolina you know the environment
would have been as been conducive for that strategic
thinking that you've you've helped your nation
with yeah i definitely wasn't planning on being
moving back to canada i wasn't planning on being
chief i wasn't planning on my mother getting
cancer But that's life. You can't count on all
those things. I do feel like where I'm at now
was where I was supposed to be. You know, I was
supposed to be chief. I was supposed to help
us out with those negotiations and set up that
trust account. And now now I'm unemployed. Now
I don't think you will be for long. And you better
get over to the summit April 8th. We would love
to have you. Some of your colleagues come over
and join us. We'll send you some further information
about that. But it has been a real honor to speak
with you. And we appreciate you joining us on
our podcast. And likewise, Mark. It's really
great to meet you and to meet Rob. And again,
I think that's... As we grow as a nation, as
we grow as an economy, as we grow as a world,
it's not about who's First Nation, who's not
First Nation. We just got to take people that
are like -minded and smart people and say, hey,
you know what, let's push this initiative forward.
And I think that's the direction we're going.
It may not be as fast as some people want it
to be, but I think that's the direction that
we're going. And I think that you will see a
stronger Canada. You'll see a stronger First
Nation. And ultimately, it ends up being a stronger
world economy. Well, thank you again, Nyawa,
or a Crowfoot chief. Crowfoot, once a chief,
always a chief. Appreciate your time and your
thoughts and your leadership that you've shown.
And I look forward to the next stage of your
career. Yes. So thank you very much for that.
Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Rob. Thank you to
Chief Oray Crowfoot for sharing his insights
with us, and thank you for viewing and listening.
Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit,
taking place on the 8th of April. Be sure to
share, subscribe, and leave a review on your
favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening
to Drumbeats. Until next time.