WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.100 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.759 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.740 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:11.119 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:16.199 I'm Mark McNacca, and my co -host Robert Brandt 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.300 and I are joined today by Matthew Jackson, Vice 00:00:19.300 --> 00:00:21.379 President of Indigenous Partnerships and Business 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:24.219 Development at Hydro One Networks Incorporated, 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:28.120 Ontario's largest transmission company. operating 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:30.960 over 90 % of the province's transmission grid. 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.299 Hydro One Networks Inc. is in the middle of a 00:00:34.299 --> 00:00:36.439 multi -billion dollar capital investment program 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.880 that's doubling Ontario's transmission capacity 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:43.219 by 2040. What makes it exceptional is the 50 00:00:43.219 --> 00:00:45.719 -50 equity partnership model with Indigenous 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.780 communities. In our conversation, you'll discover 00:00:49.780 --> 00:00:52.520 why Ontario has quietly become one of the jurisdictions 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:56.240 with the fastest transmissions development timelines. 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.340 You'll learn how Indigenous equity partnerships 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:02.600 actually accelerate those project timelines rather 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.540 than delay them, and understand why First Nations 00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:09.079 are now actively advocating for Hydro One's projects. 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:13.700 This is actually a benchmark case study demonstrating 00:01:13.700 --> 00:01:17.959 the value of Indigenous partnerships and reinforcing 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.920 Indigenous partnerships are at the heart of smart 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:26.260 investment decisions in Canada. Welcome. Matthew 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:28.719 Jackson, Vice President, Indigenous Partnerships 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:32.219 and Business Development from Hydro One. Great 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:35.019 to have you on the podcast today with us. Thank 00:01:35.019 --> 00:01:37.599 you. Looking forward to it. Morning, Matthew. 00:01:37.659 --> 00:01:40.920 Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. 00:01:42.620 --> 00:01:45.659 So a little bit of background, Matthew. Just 00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:50.659 can you talk about, introduce yourself to our 00:01:50.659 --> 00:01:54.519 UK and investor audience and also tell us about 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:57.680 your... about Hydro One and your role there and 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.379 what you've achieved over the past few years. 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:03.319 Excellent. Would love to. And thanks for having 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.959 me this morning. Before I get started, I do just 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:08.500 want to recognize the territory that I'm broadcasting 00:02:08.500 --> 00:02:11.900 to you today from. So I am joining today from 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:15.639 Tkaronto, otherwise known as Toronto, and it's 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.800 a traditional territory of many nations, including 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.900 the Huron -Wendat, the Haudenosaunee, the Anishinaabeg. 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:24.900 And I did want to recognize that it's part of 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:27.080 the treaty territory of the Mississauga of the 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.139 Credit First Nation, covered by Treaty 13, otherwise 00:02:30.139 --> 00:02:33.300 known as the Toronto Purchase Agreement. Before 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:35.060 I get started, I just want to recognize that 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:38.199 Hydro One's head office is located in the traditional 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.400 territory in the treaty lands of Mississauga 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.569 of the Credit First Nation. So a little bit about 00:02:43.569 --> 00:02:47.110 Hydro One as we get started. So Hydro One is 00:02:47.110 --> 00:02:50.689 the largest transmission company in the province 00:02:50.689 --> 00:02:54.430 of Ontario. We operate well in excess of 90 % 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:58.250 of all transmission in Ontario. And we serve 00:02:58.250 --> 00:03:00.930 as well through our distribution system, 1 .5 00:03:00.930 --> 00:03:04.669 million customers across the province. And one 00:03:04.669 --> 00:03:06.750 of the stats that I like to share when I speak 00:03:06.750 --> 00:03:09.770 about the company and the regions of the province 00:03:09.770 --> 00:03:13.909 that we serve, We have 1 .5 million customers 00:03:13.909 --> 00:03:18.449 and 1 .6 million electricity poles across our 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:21.610 franchise area. That really speaks to the vast 00:03:21.610 --> 00:03:25.569 remote reach of the territories we serve. And 00:03:25.569 --> 00:03:27.569 when you think about Ontario, so Ontario is the 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:30.810 largest province in Canada. The landmass of Ontario 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:33.409 alone is nearly five times the size of the United 00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:35.710 Kingdom, and that really speaks to the rural 00:03:35.710 --> 00:03:37.669 and remote parts of the province that we serve 00:03:37.669 --> 00:03:40.669 through our transmission and distribution system. 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:44.289 So we're an Ontario -based company, and we serve 00:03:44.289 --> 00:03:47.770 1 .5 million customers with over 9 ,300 employees 00:03:47.770 --> 00:03:51.889 across the province. And what about yourself, 00:03:52.129 --> 00:03:54.969 Matthew? Tell us a little bit about your background 00:03:54.969 --> 00:03:59.270 and where you grew up. Sure. So thanks for that. 00:03:59.449 --> 00:04:03.490 And I grew up a small town kid here in Ontario, 00:04:03.689 --> 00:04:06.629 grew up about three hours north of Toronto in 00:04:06.629 --> 00:04:08.990 the traditional territory of the Saugeen Ojibwe 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:11.250 Nation in a place called the Bruce Peninsula. 00:04:11.789 --> 00:04:15.050 Grew up in a small town living in between two 00:04:15.050 --> 00:04:20.250 First Nation communities. And from there, started 00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:23.829 my journey into the electricity and energy space 00:04:23.829 --> 00:04:27.689 about 18 years ago. Spent the first 13 years 00:04:27.689 --> 00:04:29.910 of my career working in the oil and gas sector 00:04:29.910 --> 00:04:33.910 here in Ontario and made the switch into the 00:04:33.910 --> 00:04:36.850 electricity system about seven years ago. And 00:04:36.850 --> 00:04:40.160 I've been with Hydro One. building Indigenous 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.519 partnerships in the electricity space for just 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.120 coming up on five years. And it's been a remarkable 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.319 journey that I'm looking forward to talking to 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:50.199 you guys about this morning in terms of our new 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.899 approach to partnership. Yeah, and talk to us 00:04:54.899 --> 00:04:57.980 about what attracted you to Hydro One in the 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:01.759 first place. That's a great question. And I think 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.560 what attracted me first and foremost was the 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.819 ability to lead work that we could have an impact. 00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:12.350 And I knew when I started the conversation with 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:16.670 Hydro One that there was a real desire to do 00:05:16.670 --> 00:05:20.649 two things. First and foremost, to map a new 00:05:20.649 --> 00:05:23.629 path with Indigenous governments across the province, 00:05:23.810 --> 00:05:27.410 recognizing that we needed to rebuild the electricity 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:31.110 system in Ontario. And in order to do that, it 00:05:31.110 --> 00:05:34.310 was going to take... real change and real action 00:05:34.310 --> 00:05:36.889 as it related to reconciliation. So I've seen 00:05:36.889 --> 00:05:40.310 the opportunity to lead work that had purpose, 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:43.910 coupled that with, I love doing nothing more 00:05:43.910 --> 00:05:47.110 than building big things. And Hydro One is in 00:05:47.110 --> 00:05:51.509 the business today, building a lot of big things, 00:05:51.629 --> 00:05:53.910 big infrastructure across the province. So when 00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:56.790 you have the opportunity to marry those two things 00:05:56.790 --> 00:05:59.709 together, it was a pretty exciting proposition. 00:06:02.250 --> 00:06:04.930 Just for our listeners, because when you go back 00:06:04.930 --> 00:06:07.310 in history, which is one of the reasons they 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:10.350 brought you in. And Rob, I seem to remember Tabitha 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:12.870 Bull from Canadian Council for Indigenous Business 00:06:12.870 --> 00:06:16.069 talking about her experiences when she was young. 00:06:16.550 --> 00:06:20.189 And she's around our generation. OK, I think 00:06:20.189 --> 00:06:23.990 a bit younger than certainly myself. But Hydro 00:06:23.990 --> 00:06:26.550 One did not have a great reputation. So I think 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:30.430 this is a clear example of, you know, the way 00:06:30.430 --> 00:06:33.149 of working in the past. was not going to work, 00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:35.850 wasn't really working effectively and going forward 00:06:35.850 --> 00:06:38.370 to succeed, they had to turn things around. So 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:40.790 I think that's part of your story, Matthew, in 00:06:40.790 --> 00:06:42.790 joining the organization at the time. Can you 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:44.389 talk a little bit about that? We don't want to 00:06:44.389 --> 00:06:47.110 spend too much time on the past, but it's important 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:48.970 for people to understand this is an organization 00:06:48.970 --> 00:06:53.509 that's pivoted almost 360. Yeah, I think it's 00:06:53.509 --> 00:06:56.829 an important question, Mark. I think before we 00:06:56.829 --> 00:06:59.110 have a conversation about the future, we need 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:02.370 to recognize the past. And the past behind us 00:07:02.370 --> 00:07:06.529 is one of a pretty harsh reality in the sense 00:07:06.529 --> 00:07:09.769 that Indigenous communities and nations borne 00:07:09.769 --> 00:07:12.490 the brunt of infrastructure development in the 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:16.379 past and did not reap the benefits. And that 00:07:16.379 --> 00:07:19.160 is the unfortunate legacy of the Canadian story. 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:23.199 There was a rapid development of infrastructure 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:28.319 in the 50s, 60s and 70s that had major impacts 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.019 on Indigenous territories and communities across 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:34.199 the province. And Hydro One had a role in that 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.839 in terms of being a former crown corporation, 00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:40.430 being the company that built out. primarily the 00:07:40.430 --> 00:07:42.629 transmission and distribution systems and rural 00:07:42.629 --> 00:07:45.610 and remote parts of the province. So we do have 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:48.930 to recognize that. And we do have to have open 00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:51.370 and honest conversations about that because there's 00:07:51.370 --> 00:07:54.529 no way in which we can ask First Nation governments 00:07:54.529 --> 00:07:58.910 to enter into partnerships moving forward in 00:07:58.910 --> 00:08:01.170 terms of new infrastructure without having that 00:08:01.170 --> 00:08:05.740 honest conversation. And that's been a large 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:08.480 sort of motivator in terms of getting this right 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.779 the second time around. I certainly can't control 00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:15.339 the sort of actions of the company from previous 00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:18.600 generations, but certainly can play a role in 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.519 mapping out a better future. And I think the 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.259 important thing to recognize on this, Mark, is 00:08:24.259 --> 00:08:27.500 this is not a Hydro One story. This is a story 00:08:27.500 --> 00:08:31.689 of First Nation governments standing up. and 00:08:31.689 --> 00:08:34.269 challenging Hydro One to do better and helping 00:08:34.269 --> 00:08:37.389 guide the way. And Hydro One, thankfully, has 00:08:37.389 --> 00:08:40.169 been in a position whereby we had leadership 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:43.450 listening and investing time and effort into 00:08:43.450 --> 00:08:46.389 understanding the direction First Nation leaders 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:49.169 would like to see us go this time around. So 00:08:49.169 --> 00:08:52.309 this success is really built on the input, the 00:08:52.309 --> 00:08:55.029 guidance, and the willingness First Nation leadership 00:08:55.029 --> 00:08:58.250 have demonstrated to work together in good faith 00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:02.279 to map this new path forward. Maybe in that context, 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.759 you also mentioned that Hydro One was a crown 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:08.919 corporation. Can you also talk about that transition 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:12.080 so people understand where Hydro One came from? 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:13.879 Like a lot of companies in the UK, they stayed 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:18.120 on companies, but I think that also played a 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.720 role in what's happened where we are today. For 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.340 the first nearly 800 years of Hydro One's existence, 00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:27.779 we were a government -owned crown corporation 00:09:27.779 --> 00:09:31.129 that was tasked with building out and maintaining 00:09:31.129 --> 00:09:33.429 the electricity transmission and distribution 00:09:33.429 --> 00:09:37.230 system here in Ontario. During the 1990s, there 00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:41.600 was a... rapid phase of breaking up of the energy 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.059 system and opening up the system to more competition 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:50.159 and more sort of opportunity that came from that. 00:09:50.779 --> 00:09:53.720 So we did carry that legacy. And then in 2018, 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:55.779 the provincial government, the government of 00:09:55.779 --> 00:09:58.679 Ontario, who was the shareholder of Hydro One, 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.480 made the decision to privatize Hydro One. So 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.960 for the last number of years, we have been operating 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.860 as a publicly traded company. And I think that's 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.759 played a big part in enabling us to become innovative, 00:10:12.019 --> 00:10:15.679 nimble and progressive in our approach to these 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.720 types of partnerships. It is the right thing 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:21.500 to do, but it's also inherently good for business. 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.159 Listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange and market 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.879 capitalization, roughly $30 billion. Is that 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.440 right, Matthew? Yeah, just north of there and 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:38.600 growing. four or five years for Hydro One in 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:43.019 terms of growth, both in that time phrase, but 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:45.580 also forward looking. We are in the phase of 00:10:45.580 --> 00:10:48.220 one of our most rapid sort of periods of investment 00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:52.220 in recent memory. And that's exciting, but comes 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.440 with its challenges in terms of making sure the 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.059 work we do underpins that growth. And that four 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:00.659 or five year period coincides with a change in 00:11:00.659 --> 00:11:04.320 approach to working with Indigenous. people too, 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:07.519 which also was about the time you arrived at 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:10.620 Hydro One. Was it that change that brought you 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:13.480 in or were you part of that decision -making 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.000 process? And maybe talk to us about that landmark 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:23.240 change of approach. Yeah, I reflect on the approach 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:25.720 and the change often. And the remarkable thing 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.899 about the change is that it had been a change 00:11:28.899 --> 00:11:31.539 led by many people. And I talked a little bit 00:11:31.539 --> 00:11:36.779 earlier. about the leadership shown by First 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:39.620 Nation partners from across the province challenging 00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:42.159 Hydro One to do better. And I think that's where 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:46.000 the change started. When I arrived at Hydro One 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:49.600 five years ago, we found the company at what 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:53.000 I describe as an inflection point. We had two 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.600 transmission lines that were under. development 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:57.860 early development we had the wassigan transmission 00:11:57.860 --> 00:12:00.799 line in northwestern ontario and the chatham 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.759 by lakeshore line here in the southwestern part 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:06.779 of ontario the industrial heartland of the province 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:11.019 both of those projects were mired in delay both 00:12:11.019 --> 00:12:14.360 of those projects were suffering from fractured 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.379 trust between hydra one and first nation governments 00:12:18.490 --> 00:12:20.750 And our partners on the Wassigan transmission 00:12:20.750 --> 00:12:24.350 line at one point lost total confidence in Hydro 00:12:24.350 --> 00:12:27.549 One's ability to build this infrastructure in 00:12:27.549 --> 00:12:29.909 a good way and to get the fundamentals of partnership 00:12:29.909 --> 00:12:32.549 right. And it was their leadership and their 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:36.750 challenge that really led Hydro One to the edge 00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:38.269 of that inflection point and we had a choice 00:12:38.269 --> 00:12:42.289 to make. Do we pivot in a dramatic way and do 00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:45.070 things big and differently? Or do we continue 00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:47.549 to keep our head in the sand and try and repeat 00:12:47.549 --> 00:12:50.909 the mistakes of the past? And thankfully, our 00:12:50.909 --> 00:12:53.210 senior leadership team, our board of directors, 00:12:53.470 --> 00:12:56.049 a number of my colleagues from across the company 00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:59.669 leaned into listening to what First Nation governments 00:12:59.669 --> 00:13:02.309 were telling us. And we were hearing consistently 00:13:02.309 --> 00:13:05.909 from First Nation leadership that there was a 00:13:05.909 --> 00:13:08.940 recipe and a roadmap. in the spirit and the intent 00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.259 of the treaties that were signed that underpin 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:15.379 Canada, in that infrastructure should be built 00:13:15.379 --> 00:13:18.460 in partnership, benefits should be shared equally, 00:13:18.700 --> 00:13:21.139 and there should be collaboration and decision 00:13:21.139 --> 00:13:24.080 -making. And we really, from there, work to build 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.720 a model around what we heard from communities 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.820 as being important. And that's why I'm always 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:33.419 very careful to take credit for the work. I think 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:36.639 the work has been the result of senior First 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.799 Nation leaders taking positions and helping guide 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.419 the way. Elders from communities contributing 00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:45.600 and providing guidance, as well as a number of 00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:48.500 senior leaders and team members from Hydro One 00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:50.679 that have all really invested our hearts and 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.360 our souls into trying to get this right. We don't 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:56.720 get 100 % of everything right, but we're trying 00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:00.009 our best. to really map this path out in a good 00:14:00.009 --> 00:14:03.330 way. And it's been a remarkable success. Just 00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:06.950 on that, Matthew, so a couple of questions for 00:14:06.950 --> 00:14:09.629 you to talk further about. I have a number that 00:14:09.629 --> 00:14:12.929 Ontario Hydro engages with over 130 Indigenous 00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:17.590 governments. So if it's anything that ballpark 00:14:17.590 --> 00:14:21.509 will be of interest to our listeners over here 00:14:21.509 --> 00:14:23.909 thinking, how do you manage that? And also about 00:14:23.909 --> 00:14:28.940 the 50 -50 model. Can you talk us through both 00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:31.220 those issues and whatever order you think is 00:14:31.220 --> 00:14:33.580 best to set the scene? Because I think this is 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:37.220 a real story that everybody can benefit from 00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:40.639 knowing more about. So thanks for that, Mark. 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:42.779 And I talked a little bit at the start about 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:46.059 the vastness of the territory in which Hydra 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:50.720 One serves. That provides us a unique opportunity 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.720 in the sense that we have the opportunity to 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:57.419 work with over 130 different Indigenous groups 00:14:57.419 --> 00:15:00.580 and communities from across the province. I would 00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:03.899 say, historically speaking, companies like Hydro 00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:06.980 One and industry in general spent a lot of time 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:10.259 focusing on how to manage the Indigenous risk. 00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.659 For the last two or three decades, that's been 00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:17.539 the dialogue in the Canadian context in industries. 00:15:18.350 --> 00:15:21.169 How do we manage the Indigenous risk? Because 00:15:21.169 --> 00:15:23.629 we've seen a long list of infrastructure development 00:15:23.629 --> 00:15:27.029 opportunities in Canada suffer from delay or 00:15:27.029 --> 00:15:29.610 cancellation because they couldn't get the fundamentals 00:15:29.610 --> 00:15:33.730 of partnership right. Part of the shift at Hydro 00:15:33.730 --> 00:15:37.090 One has been a complete rethink of how we look 00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:40.750 at not the Indigenous risk, but how do we embrace 00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:43.899 the Indigenous opportunity? And that... shift 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:47.559 in mindset has been fundamental to the new direction 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.960 that we continue to map out. When you can make 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.980 that shift and when you start thinking about 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:55.340 the opportunity that comes with the relationships 00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:59.340 we have with 130 communities across the province, 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:01.879 that's a unique competitive advantage that if 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.919 we get it right, no other company can compete 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.379 on because we have the long -term relationships, 00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:11.659 we have the ability to partner, but that takes 00:16:11.659 --> 00:16:14.509 work. And I think that's been a core focus of 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:18.909 our work over the last five years as one, changing 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:21.909 the DNA of Hydro One and the way we think away 00:16:21.909 --> 00:16:26.370 from the risk to embracing the opportunity. And 00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:28.950 then as we think about the opportunities, getting 00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:33.950 back to grassroots, deep, meaningful relationships 00:16:33.950 --> 00:16:36.809 where we're no longer showing up in communities 00:16:36.809 --> 00:16:39.809 when we have a project to talk about. Our goal 00:16:39.809 --> 00:16:43.059 and the... point that we're rowing towards is 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:45.980 being the company that communities look to and 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:49.240 see as having value in terms of that relationship 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.919 over the long term, so that when we want to talk 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:53.639 about a transmission line or an infrastructure 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.899 development, we're their natural choice. So it 00:16:56.899 --> 00:17:00.120 really has been that focus on shifting away from 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.120 the historic management of risk philosophy into 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.940 one of embracing Indigenous partnerships as a 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:10.880 competitive opportunity. And we've seen enormous 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.240 commercial success from that shift in approach. 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.559 So describe that new, that policy, the 50 -50 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.799 policy for us, Matthew. So the First Nations 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.420 Equity Partnership model is something I think 00:17:24.420 --> 00:17:27.059 all Hydro One team members and community partners 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:32.859 are quite proud of. Back in 2022, Hydro One, 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:35.359 together with a number of First Nation governments 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.750 from across the province, announced a commitment 00:17:38.750 --> 00:17:43.009 to a 50 -50 equal ownership model on all future 00:17:43.009 --> 00:17:45.910 transmission lines over $100 million in investment. 00:17:46.230 --> 00:17:49.529 That essentially was a public commitment from 00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:53.230 Hydro One to offer equal ownership in the transmission 00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:57.329 lines that we build out moving forward. And it 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:00.490 committed us to not only the 50 -50 equal ownership. 00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:03.690 But working together from the development stages, 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:06.569 the very earliest development, the very earliest 00:18:06.569 --> 00:18:09.890 thinking of project development, we're now partnering 00:18:09.890 --> 00:18:11.910 with communities to make sure their perspectives, 00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:16.170 their goals, their aspirations are all covered 00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:20.569 in those plans. So it really is, again, shifting 00:18:20.569 --> 00:18:24.170 away from that historic model of simply consulting 00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:27.230 on projects towards a model that is similar to 00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:29.690 sort of thinking about co -development of infrastructure. 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.880 So the model was developed at a time when we 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.180 had two transmission lines that were mired in 00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:41.660 delay and likely to face a number of years of 00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.279 opposition and challenge and fractured relationship 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.589 from communities. I'm proud to report the Chatham 00:18:47.589 --> 00:18:50.029 by Lakeshore transmission line came into service 00:18:50.029 --> 00:18:54.369 a year ahead of schedule and close to $30 million 00:18:54.369 --> 00:18:57.890 under budget because we were able to turn our 00:18:57.890 --> 00:19:00.029 relationships around with our five First Nation 00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.950 partners in the Southwest. So a huge success. 00:19:03.069 --> 00:19:07.730 And those savings are savings that help create 00:19:07.730 --> 00:19:10.730 downward pressure on rates. $30 million less 00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:14.009 invested is $30 million less hitting the rate 00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:17.410 pair. Not all of those savings were accrued from 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:20.309 the equity model, but a large portion could be 00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:22.970 because getting the partnership right allowed 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:25.809 us to construct quicker, which meant overall 00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:29.390 better outcomes. And as it relates to our Wassigan 00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:32.410 transmission line, a $1 .2 billion investment 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:36.730 in northwestern Ontario. That line suffered from 00:19:36.730 --> 00:19:40.130 delay at the beginning. We have entered into 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:43.089 construction. I'm proud to report and I'm very 00:19:43.089 --> 00:19:45.269 proud of the fact that we've been able to earn 00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:48.710 the full consent and support of all nine First 00:19:48.710 --> 00:19:50.809 Nation governments who have partnered on that 00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:54.289 line with Hydro One. So construction's well underway 00:19:54.289 --> 00:19:59.289 and progressing in a really good fashion. Wow, 00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:02.670 really, really impressive. I think when you... 00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:04.990 Talk through those numbers. You know, transmission 00:20:04.990 --> 00:20:08.769 lines, they're big projects. And when we look 00:20:08.769 --> 00:20:12.089 at Canada right now, under Prime Minister Carney 00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:15.690 and, you know, 31, 32 projects on a list, and 00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:19.190 some have been announced so far, it demonstrates 00:20:19.190 --> 00:20:22.529 working with the Indigenous peoples, you know, 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:25.349 brings bottom line benefit. Things happen quicker, 00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:30.869 under budgets, hopefully most of the time. But 00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:32.630 if you don't work with the Indigenous people, 00:20:34.009 --> 00:20:35.970 your projects aren't going to happen on time 00:20:35.970 --> 00:20:37.390 because they're just not going to get built. 00:20:37.829 --> 00:20:41.190 And you're going to spend a lot of money unnecessarily 00:20:41.190 --> 00:20:42.630 because you haven't approached it the right way. 00:20:42.710 --> 00:20:46.049 So I think those are great lessons for our audience. 00:20:47.269 --> 00:20:50.849 Matthew, those equity, the 50 % stakes, you're 00:20:50.849 --> 00:20:54.980 not giving those away, are you? That's a great 00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:57.420 question and probably one of the most common 00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:00.640 questions I get. And the short answer is no. 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.240 We partner with Indigenous communities on the 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.099 development of the infrastructure. But then we 00:21:07.099 --> 00:21:10.819 collaborate with those First Nations to support 00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:14.980 their investment into 50 % ownership in the equity 00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:18.319 in the line. So First Nation governments are 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:22.500 becoming equity investors and owners in the infrastructure. 00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:26.930 And we help along the journey of that process 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:29.710 to make sure that access to capital is not a 00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:33.990 barrier to the model's implementation. But the 00:21:33.990 --> 00:21:36.930 short answer is the nations are going out to 00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:40.549 secure capital to make their investments in the 00:21:40.549 --> 00:21:43.789 line. And we're excited about that opportunity, 00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:46.089 but working hand in hand with our partners to 00:21:46.089 --> 00:21:49.309 make sure capital is available, just in terms 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:52.599 of the size of the investment. associated with 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.460 the portfolio of transmission that Hydro One 00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:58.380 is developing. So I talked about the two transmission 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.440 lines that were in a challenging position five 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.640 years ago. Those two lines are moving forward. 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:09.299 We are also in the process of developing or conducting 00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:13.180 early engagement with communities on potential 00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:16.980 transmission for upwards of 14 transmission lines. 00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:22.170 So we talked about two lines struggling to 14 00:22:22.170 --> 00:22:25.589 transmission lines in various forms of development 00:22:25.589 --> 00:22:28.710 in Ontario. Just to put some context, Rob, around 00:22:28.710 --> 00:22:31.630 the size of the equity investment that we're 00:22:31.630 --> 00:22:35.410 partnering on. By the mid part of the 2030s, 00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:37.349 we expect that we should be able to facilitate 00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:40.670 somewhere north of $2 billion in First Nation 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:44.130 equity ownership in the transmission system in 00:22:44.130 --> 00:22:47.130 Ontario. So that is the opportunity and the challenge 00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:50.049 in front of us is making sure that financing 00:22:50.049 --> 00:22:53.809 that $2 billion of investment is doable and we're 00:22:53.809 --> 00:22:56.779 confident it will be. And I guess one of the 00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:59.240 exciting changes in Canada for First Nations 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.440 and other Indigenous groups is the availability 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:06.200 of financing tools that weren't maybe available 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:11.779 even 10 years ago. And it's programs like the 00:23:11.779 --> 00:23:16.160 Ontario Loan Guarantee Program, the Federal Loan 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.880 Guarantee Program for Indigenous Equity Investments, 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.490 the First Nations Finance Authority. All these 00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:27.170 tools being ramped up that make buying into equity 00:23:27.170 --> 00:23:32.690 stakes a more realistic proposition. It's been 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:36.049 a fairly remarkable shift, I would say, in the 00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:39.369 last three or four years in terms of the availability 00:23:39.369 --> 00:23:43.630 or the potential for First Nation financing to 00:23:43.630 --> 00:23:47.789 enter into investments like the ones we're talking 00:23:47.789 --> 00:23:52.250 about today. Almost immediately after announcing 00:23:52.250 --> 00:23:56.529 the First Nations Equity Partnership model, we 00:23:56.529 --> 00:23:58.769 shifted our focus at Hydro One to thinking about 00:23:58.769 --> 00:24:03.589 what could we do to help remove those potential 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:07.009 barriers to First Nation financing into the system. 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:09.650 So we've been working on this now really since 00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:13.690 2014 when we've enabled the first equity investment 00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:17.190 in our Bruce to Milton line. But we've really 00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:19.269 ramped up our efforts over the last three or 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:21.029 four years since we announced the commitment 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:23.609 to the equity model. And we've done a number 00:24:23.609 --> 00:24:26.230 of things. So you referenced the provincial and 00:24:26.230 --> 00:24:29.109 federal loan guarantee programs. We've been collaborating 00:24:29.109 --> 00:24:33.109 with our partners and the provincial and federal 00:24:33.109 --> 00:24:36.150 governments to make sure that those programs 00:24:36.150 --> 00:24:39.529 continue to support the needs and goals of First 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:41.470 Nations looking to invest in the transmission 00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:44.680 system. Hydro One has invested a significant 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.400 amount of time talking to our lending community 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.440 to make sure that they were aware of the model 00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:53.819 and understood the merits. And the third thing 00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:56.700 I'll say on that is the transmission business 00:24:56.700 --> 00:25:01.539 is a rate regulated, relatively low risk investment 00:25:01.539 --> 00:25:05.940 and a long term investment. So we have been out 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:08.279 telling the story to the investment community 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:12.269 that. There is a relatively low risk investment 00:25:12.269 --> 00:25:15.430 here. There is a very high impact return in terms 00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:18.349 of long -term revenue streams for these communities 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:22.849 to benefit from. And there ought not to be the 00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:25.690 historic barriers that once were around in the 00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:28.430 way of financing these deals for all of those 00:25:28.430 --> 00:25:31.410 reasons. And I think there is a shift happening 00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:35.539 where you're seeing... provincial and federal 00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:38.099 governments step up. You're seeing the lending 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:41.079 communities start to open their mind and be far 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.519 more comfortable with this. And I think you're 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.380 seeing that moment of reconciliation kick into 00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:49.900 action in Canada, where it's about all of us 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:52.420 leaning in, whether it be the developer, the 00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:54.900 financer, the provincial, the federal governments, 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.759 together with First Nation governments coming 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.660 up with solutions. And we've come from a place 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:02.480 where three or four years ago, we were quite 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:05.799 concerned about the ability to finance some of 00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:09.680 this equity to relatively comfortable knowing 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.279 that there should be access to capital out there. 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.220 And we continue to invest a lot of time and effort 00:26:15.220 --> 00:26:17.759 with our partners to make sure that we're well 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.059 ahead of that and proactively ready to support 00:26:20.059 --> 00:26:22.640 those investments. And for foreign investors, 00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:24.740 there's an opportunity there because typically 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:30.279 the financing Stack starts with a loan to the 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.259 First Nations syndicate, and then that loan gets 00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:37.960 guaranteed by the types of programs we've been 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.660 talking about, government programs, or in some 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:44.579 cases, the First Nations Finance Authority is 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:47.900 financing itself on a long -term basis. But there's 00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:50.980 a need for private capital in the first instance, 00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:53.779 and there's no reason why foreigners, foreign 00:26:53.779 --> 00:26:57.240 investors can't. be the providers of that capital 00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.160 and have their loans guaranteed by those same 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.940 programs. I think I go back to sort of the comments 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:08.920 I made about the opportunity that exists in terms 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.400 of investing time and effort into building relationships 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.900 with First Nation communities in Canada and taking 00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:22.230 a long -term approach. to this opportunity that 00:27:22.230 --> 00:27:25.589 is materializing. And the reality is that as 00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:29.650 reconciliation continues to drum forward in Canada, 00:27:30.450 --> 00:27:33.470 First Nation communities are going to continue 00:27:33.470 --> 00:27:37.029 to build and participate in the economy in more 00:27:37.029 --> 00:27:39.789 meaningful ways. It really is the only path forward 00:27:39.789 --> 00:27:43.029 for Canada. And I think it's one that all Canadians 00:27:43.029 --> 00:27:47.049 should be excited about and all foreign investors 00:27:47.049 --> 00:27:50.940 in terms of an opportunity to participate in 00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:54.339 helping advance that agenda of reconciliation, 00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.599 recognizing the opportunity, but also contributing 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.259 to the build -out of the next generation of the 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.019 Canadian economy. These things are all tied together, 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.440 and one can't happen without the other, but we 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:08.700 are going to see First Nation governments become 00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:12.160 larger stewards of the economy, and there is 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.440 the opportunity to start thinking about that 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.269 now and partnering early. And typically it's 00:28:19.269 --> 00:28:21.650 not just one or two First Nations, is it, that 00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:25.349 you're partnering on a particular transmission 00:28:25.349 --> 00:28:29.089 line? Mark mentioned earlier 130 First Nations 00:28:29.089 --> 00:28:33.150 across Ontario involved in partnerships. So it's 00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:37.190 typically a group of First Nations along or affected 00:28:37.190 --> 00:28:41.750 by a proposed transmission line that are getting 00:28:41.750 --> 00:28:44.269 involved, coming together, forming partnerships 00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:49.680 themselves to then become. 50 -50 partners with 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.240 Hydro One. So it's interesting that groups of 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.380 First Nations are coming together and maybe talk 00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:00.799 about how it is to manage a partnership that 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:05.440 is itself a partnership of First Nations. Partnerships 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:08.279 are hard work. And I don't know that that's any 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:10.579 different from a partnership in the household 00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:14.019 to a partnership in business to partnership in 00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:16.849 developing infrastructure. with First Nation 00:29:16.849 --> 00:29:20.950 communities. This has been an enormously heavy 00:29:20.950 --> 00:29:24.450 lift on both sides of the table. First Nation 00:29:24.450 --> 00:29:28.529 governments are ramping up their ability to participate. 00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:31.509 At the same time, companies like Hydro One are 00:29:31.509 --> 00:29:34.190 working to map a new path forward. So there is 00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:36.410 a lot of work that goes into getting these partnerships 00:29:36.410 --> 00:29:40.049 right. That said, once you get the fundamentals 00:29:40.049 --> 00:29:43.930 of the partnership right, oftentimes we're able 00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:45.910 to move faster, better, and more efficiently. 00:29:46.309 --> 00:29:49.930 So we've got, in some instances, five community 00:29:49.930 --> 00:29:52.849 partners on a transmission line, upwards to as 00:29:52.849 --> 00:29:55.890 many as 19 potential partners on some of our 00:29:55.890 --> 00:29:59.869 larger investments in the north. I often describe 00:29:59.869 --> 00:30:02.190 it as this, you know, the task that Hydro One 00:30:02.190 --> 00:30:04.809 has in front of it right now is through collaborating 00:30:04.809 --> 00:30:08.970 with partners, we have to find consensus amongst 00:30:08.970 --> 00:30:12.380 governments. And those governments all have different 00:30:12.380 --> 00:30:17.220 views, cultural protocols, goals, aspirations. 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.160 So it is complex work. I would say two things 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:24.059 have been critical to the success Hydro One has 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.400 found and the advice I would give to investors 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.359 thinking about looking to participate. First 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:35.319 and foremost is time invested up front. is always 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:39.140 a very good return on investment. Getting those 00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:42.519 fundamentals right, investing early in the relationship, 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.019 getting to know people before the project commences 00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:49.019 is always my first bit of advice. And the second 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:51.460 thing I would say is critically important is 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:54.619 when you're starting that early engagement, be 00:30:54.619 --> 00:30:57.440 in a position to clearly articulate your guiding 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.390 principles, how you're going to operate. And 00:31:01.390 --> 00:31:04.130 most importantly, listen so that you're being 00:31:04.130 --> 00:31:06.789 responsive to the unique needs of the communities. 00:31:07.549 --> 00:31:10.109 Nine times out of 10, communities are signaling 00:31:10.109 --> 00:31:13.049 back to the party they're dealing with what they'd 00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:15.730 like to see in terms of what success is in their 00:31:15.730 --> 00:31:18.410 mind. Listening to that and being responsive 00:31:18.410 --> 00:31:21.210 to that early on is going to tee the conversation 00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:25.440 up for a far more constructive outcome. That's 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.380 great relationship advice, whether in the home 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:32.160 or outside the home or in business relationships. 00:31:33.140 --> 00:31:36.900 Don't take them for granted. They're lots of 00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:40.720 times hard work, but so rewarding when you get 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.799 them right, because together, generally speaking, 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.759 generally, we are better together. Talk to us 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:52.490 about the future then. What's the next? Five 00:31:52.490 --> 00:31:54.230 years looks like, what does the next five years 00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:58.250 look like for Hydro One? It's an exciting time 00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:01.349 for Hydro One and it's an exciting time for Ontario. 00:32:01.690 --> 00:32:05.289 When you look at the economic opportunities in 00:32:05.289 --> 00:32:09.750 Ontario as it relates to investments that are 00:32:09.750 --> 00:32:14.029 coming online in terms of manufacturing, re -industrialization, 00:32:14.269 --> 00:32:18.339 we're seeing critical mineral development. move 00:32:18.339 --> 00:32:20.400 forward in a more meaningful way. There really 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.079 is an exciting future ahead of Ontario, I believe. 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.180 And Hydro One is at the core of that. I often 00:32:28.180 --> 00:32:30.859 describe Hydro One as the delivery company, the 00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:33.759 Amazon delivery company for electricity in the 00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:37.380 province. And thanks to the plan laid out by 00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:39.640 the provincial government in Ontario, their long 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.220 -term views on energy and the investments that 00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:44.299 they're moving forward to make sure that Ontario 00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:47.039 has the energy today, but well into the future 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.180 to meet the future needs. There's an enormous 00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.240 opportunity, whether it be in the transmission 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.420 space, the critical mineral space, the generation 00:32:55.420 --> 00:33:00.569 space, manufacturing. All of that success is 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:03.589 contingent upon finding these new paths forward 00:33:03.589 --> 00:33:07.349 with Indigenous governments. I think for Hydro 00:33:07.349 --> 00:33:09.990 One in the next five years, probably what's most 00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:13.349 exciting, a couple of things. Proving that this 00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:16.970 can be done. And I think we're well on that track 00:33:16.970 --> 00:33:19.809 and a lot of people are watching. We're moving 00:33:19.809 --> 00:33:23.609 forward the largest reinvestment into the transmission 00:33:23.609 --> 00:33:28.289 space in Ontario in generations. We are reinvesting 00:33:28.289 --> 00:33:31.369 in doubling the size of the transmission grid 00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:34.809 over the next number of years. And we're doing 00:33:34.809 --> 00:33:39.009 so in a way that we've got the number of transmission 00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:42.190 lines that I talked about all moving forward. 00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:45.789 What's the goal? Sorry, double the size of the 00:33:45.789 --> 00:33:49.529 grid within how many years? Yeah, by the end 00:33:49.529 --> 00:33:51.589 of the 2030s, we'll have seen about a doubling 00:33:51.589 --> 00:33:56.299 of the grid here in Ontario. We've got, as I 00:33:56.299 --> 00:34:00.240 mentioned, 14 projects that have either been 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:03.180 designated to Hydro One or were engaging in very 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:06.140 early conversations with partners about the potential 00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:09.980 for them to move forward. Those projects are 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:13.360 from one end of the province to the other. And 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:17.380 it is a remarkable investment. It's the largest 00:34:17.380 --> 00:34:19.920 investment of transmission moving forward in 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:25.929 Canada. It is highly complex. But we're moving 00:34:25.929 --> 00:34:29.550 those transmission lines forward in a way that 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:33.010 we are not seeing the same type of opposition, 00:34:33.269 --> 00:34:36.730 delay, or frustrated processes that we're seeing 00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:39.889 in other jurisdictions. Ontario is quietly becoming 00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:43.289 one of the quicker jurisdictions to develop transmission 00:34:43.289 --> 00:34:48.119 in through. This new partnership approach by 00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:50.659 Hydro One through the leadership that First Nation 00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:55.119 governments are showing. We have had recent modernization 00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:58.119 of the environmental assessments in Ontario to 00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.980 make that whole process work a little bit faster 00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:04.280 and better. But at the core of that is First 00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:09.579 Nation consent and buy -in. I think quietly here 00:35:09.579 --> 00:35:12.340 in Ontario, we've done a pretty remarkable thing. 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:14.579 We're shepherding those reinvestments forward, 00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:17.119 and there's not been a lot of controversy around 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.900 the transmission space. So you asked, Rob, about 00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.239 the focus for the next five years for Hydro One. 00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:26.219 It really is about, number one, proving that 00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.280 we can deliver on our commitments and execute 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:30.880 this infrastructure in a good way with First 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.659 Nation communities. And for Hydro One, thinking 00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:37.039 about what's next in terms of continuing this 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:41.320 expansion of the notion of partnership with Indigenous 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.360 communities, all with the goal of Hydro One being 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.179 the chosen and trusted energy partner to Indigenous 00:35:47.179 --> 00:35:51.320 communities across the province. Matthew, any 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:55.420 objections to any proposed transmission lines 00:35:55.420 --> 00:36:01.000 from the Indigenous community so far? To date, 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:05.699 I would say we're quite satisfied with the level 00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:08.460 of excitement and buy -in and support we've seen 00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:11.059 from First Nations from across the province. 00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:13.460 I touched a little bit earlier on the hard work 00:36:13.460 --> 00:36:16.219 that goes into building and maintaining these 00:36:16.219 --> 00:36:19.619 partnerships. I often describe the reality we 00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.440 face now as... We're not having easy conversations. 00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:25.820 We're having different types of hard conversations 00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:28.760 than we were a number of years ago. But they're 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.840 more constructive conversations. We're at the 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.679 table early before a project has even been fully 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:38.000 thought out. We're reflecting input from communities 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.980 in those processes. And we have community leadership 00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:44.960 at the table helping make decisions from the 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.940 beginning. All of that has led to a remarkable 00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.139 amount of support for these types of projects, 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.719 which I think signals to me that when energy 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.940 infrastructure investments are done the right 00:36:56.940 --> 00:37:00.500 way, First Nation communities are interested. 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.659 They are excited about contributing and participating 00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:06.300 more in the Canadian economy. So no, we've not 00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:09.949 seen that. I talked about the... Total number 00:37:09.949 --> 00:37:11.849 of transmission lines that we're working on. 00:37:11.869 --> 00:37:13.730 There are a number of transmission lines right 00:37:13.730 --> 00:37:17.570 now that Hydro One is conducting early engagement 00:37:17.570 --> 00:37:22.309 on. In the last two transmission lines that sort 00:37:22.309 --> 00:37:25.369 of advanced here in the province and are working 00:37:25.369 --> 00:37:28.789 towards potential sort of development with Hydro 00:37:28.789 --> 00:37:32.480 One. It's not been Hydro One advocating to the 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:34.860 government for those lines to be designated our 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.539 way. In those two circumstances, we've actually 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:40.840 had the First Nation governments in their territories 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:44.119 advocating to government on behalf of Hydro One 00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:46.599 for the project that they would like to see move 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.139 forward in their territory. So again, shifting 00:37:50.139 --> 00:37:52.840 away from the Indigenous risk and embracing the 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:57.400 opportunity, that shift in focus has... sort 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.099 of led to the best case scenario I think you 00:38:00.099 --> 00:38:02.500 can be in as an energy developer, which is where 00:38:02.500 --> 00:38:04.320 you have First Nation governments advocating 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.639 to grow your business. And that's what we've 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:09.719 seen. So that's the bar we continue to work towards. 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:13.340 Great message for our European listeners, especially 00:38:13.340 --> 00:38:16.119 who sometimes think that Canadian Indigenous 00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:21.139 people are against all development. And so we 00:38:21.139 --> 00:38:23.260 keep driving home the message that no one approached 00:38:23.260 --> 00:38:26.429 in the right way. Indigenous people are quite 00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:29.909 supportive and want to be partners. I think that's 00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:33.070 it. And that's what we've seen. Not all projects 00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:36.030 likely will get the full endorsement of Indigenous 00:38:36.030 --> 00:38:38.989 communities, but certainly when done right, I 00:38:38.989 --> 00:38:41.210 think there's an enormous amount of interest 00:38:41.210 --> 00:38:44.269 and excitement about the opportunities that this 00:38:44.269 --> 00:38:47.239 new infrastructure can create. both in terms 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:49.460 of the short and long -term opportunities associated 00:38:49.460 --> 00:38:52.500 with that participation that avails itself. Yeah. 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:55.739 Well, Matthew Jackson, the Hydro One story is 00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:59.880 such a great one, a pioneer in the area of meaningful 00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.659 Indigenous participation in big projects. Lots 00:39:04.659 --> 00:39:11.139 of lessons for Canadians and overseas listeners. 00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:14.440 It's been a real pleasure. talking to you this 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.280 morning and learning a bit more about Hydro One, 00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:19.940 past, present, and future. Thanks for taking 00:39:19.940 --> 00:39:23.159 the time. Thanks so much for having me and really 00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:26.079 enjoyed the conversation and hope this message 00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:30.300 lands both here in Canada and across on the other 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.900 side of the sea for those European investors 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:36.380 that are thinking about opportunities that may 00:39:36.380 --> 00:39:39.260 exist here in Canada. Thank you very much and 00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:41.199 great to see you again, Matthew. Thanks, Mark. 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.889 Appreciate it. Cheers. Thank you to Matthew Jackson 00:39:45.889 --> 00:39:48.889 for sharing his insights with us. And thank you 00:39:48.889 --> 00:39:51.949 for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:39:51.949 --> 00:39:54.869 for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on 00:39:54.869 --> 00:39:57.710 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:39:57.909 --> 00:40:00.210 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:40:00.789 --> 00:40:03.349 Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. Until next 00:40:03.349 --> 00:40:03.650 time.