Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNacca, and my co -host Robert Branton
and I are here today to discuss Canadian Prime
Minister Mark Carney's first budget as he sets
a new direction for the country. And what a direction
it is. This budget signals something we've been
talking about on drumbeats for months now. Indigenous
partnerships are no longer on the periphery of
Canada's economic strategy. They're central to
it. Carney's laid out specific mechanisms, legislative
changes, and funding programs that embed Indigenous
participation into Canada's investment future.
In this conversation, you'll discover three game
-changing Indigenous economic initiatives. How
the First Nations Finance Authority is now working
to be able to use special purpose vehicles. Why
new bonding programs open defence procurement
to Indigenous contractors. And how First Nations
can monetize future revenues for immediate capital
investments. We'll also explore why Canada's
fiscal position gives it competitive advantages.
against nearly all G7 countries, and that investors
in the UK and continental Europe should certainly
take notice of. The opportunity is clear. CAN
needs over a trillion dollars in private capital
over the next five years, and the pathways for
Indigenous partnerships are now being systematically
built into policy. Join us as we discuss Prime
Minister Mark Carney's first budget. So here
we are, the morning after the night before. Good
morning, Mark. Great to be here. Nice to see
you. Bright and early, I'm coming to you from
beautiful Susina Nation, Treaty 7 territory,
just outside of Calgary this morning. It's a
very early morning, a bright start, but it's
an important topic. Yes, it is, and it's great
to have a Western perspective on Prime Minister
Mark Carney's first... budget as he sets a new
direction for the country. And it is a new direction.
I mean, there's a lot of detail in there. We
are just hours from the budget being released,
but there's some really interesting initiatives
that Indigenous people will find encouraging.
There's also a little bit of pain in that budget
too. Let's unpack it. So it's not the budget
anyone's expected from the most recent liberal
governments we have. I'm sure there's many members
of the conservatives or what was partly the progressive
conservatives before they allied with reform
who would think, OK, maybe there's some things
that have been addressed correctly. But maybe
we should have seen it with coming with Mark
Carney, one of the reasons he got elected. is
he knows how to run a business. He knows how
to run big organizations. And on one hand, we're
seeing massive infrastructure spending proposed.
And on the other hand, they're cutting tens of
thousands of public service jobs. And this unusual
combination of austerity and ambition that they
had talked about before was going to happen.
But it's kind of new for Canadians because they
haven't used to being seen something like this
for... many, many years. Now, they still need
the votes to pass it for our listeners, certainly
over in the UK. Carney leads a minority government.
He must have been a very happy man yesterday
because he needs three people, three more MPs
to have a majority government. And there was
a Conservative member from the Maritimes who
switched before the session yesterday. So now
there's only two. Again, there's, I think, seven
NDP members, the New Democratic, the Socialist
Party of Canada, and maybe they'll abstain. But
I think we're in an interesting time. There'll
be a confidence vote later. We can talk about
that. But let's talk about what's going on. Yeah,
because there was a big build -up to this budget,
if you recall. It was postponed from the spring,
right after the federal election. And so we've
been waiting for some time, and there's been
a lot of rhetoric about generational change.
I'm not sure there is as big a change some people
wanted to see in this first budget, but I think
there's only so much you can do in a budget like
this. So it's definitely a pivot from recent.
budget focuses, and like I said, some really
interesting Indigenous initiatives. Great. I
think, though, from a historical perspective,
when Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and his finance
minister, who were also liberals, they came in,
which was a completely radical budget, challenging
times for Canada way back when that was, and
really took the bull by the horns. So for myself,
I'm a little bit surprised that perhaps it wasn't
as transformative as one could expect. But that
comes back into this issue, is Canada in good
shape or bad shape? And just before we get into
some of the details, let me quote some of the
headlines from the newspapers. Since we're on
a UK -based podcast here, we're going to talk
about newspaper headlines. Yes, yes. Which is
a great tradition over here. So Global Mail.
Global Mail is Canada's national newspaper. Some
can dispute that, but let's go with that. Carney
earmarks billions in new spending to counter
US protectionism. The opinion analysis section,
we had Andrew Coyne of the Global Mail saying,
after all the hype, the budget fails to meet
the moment. Shannon Proudfoot, Carney's budget
is a manifesto of no. Campbell Clark, when the
big day came, it wasn't quite as advertised.
And Adam Rawonsky said, budget signals Carney's
new tone on climate, but little substance. So
not exactly overwhelming. Wow, this was what
Canada needed. The Financial Times has Canada's
Mark Carney pledges 141 billion Canadian to counter
Donald Trump's trade war, giving an interesting
perspective for those from the UK. And nothing
has shown up in The Economist yet. But the Wall
Street Journal says Canada plans wider deficits
to jolt the economy to get things going. So a
lot of outsiders have been looking at what's
going on in Canada to see what is going to be
the future. Yeah, and for me, Mark, one of the
interesting parts of this budget, and I saw Goldie
Heider, the head of the Business Council of Canada.
comment that you know some good steps but not
enough uh and uh so business business may have
been hoping for more but one of the interesting
uh aspects of it i was or that i saw was the
the focus on uh trading partners outside of north
america uh and uh the target to double exports
outside of north america uh over the next few
years. And there's talk in the budget about needing
more reliable partners, which I think is a dig
at the US, but there's definite outward focus.
Do you think so? A definite outward focus in
this budget too, which is nice to see. Yes, it
is. And prior to the budget, when Prime Minister
Carney, along with other of the leaders were
in Southeast Asia, The Prime Minister of Canada
met with President Xi of China, and it's been
a long time since the Canadian Prime Minister
has met with him. And Carney had led a North
American business delegation, I think, a couple
of years ago, but that's kind of given a reset.
And China has announced early on that they will
increase the number of group tourism that can
go to Canada, which is obviously always a carrot.
The Chinese government has to say we can direct
a lot of consumer spending your way. So I think
that was an early sign of a warming relationship.
And it's been in a deep freeze, right? For sure.
The Saudi investment minister was through Toronto
just the other day. And again, that relationship
is thawing. Trying to encourage foreign investment,
talk about infrastructure gaps and the billions
of dollars of investment that are needed. And
it's pretty clear that Canada alone can't fund
that gap and we're going to need financial partners
from all over the world. So yeah, you're seeing
a reset in China, Saudi, a new focus on Europe.
all culminating, I'm sure, at our summit next
April. Yes, I'm sure. So let's look at where
Canada is just before we get into the budget
and the impact on the Indigenous Nations and
what that means for the foundational peoples
of Canada. So on a per capita basis, GDP has
been declining. From 2020 to 2024, it's declined
2%, which according to the Fraser Institute,
well -known institute in Canada, is the worst
five -year performance since the Great Depression.
For those of us who are old enough to know, the
Great Depression was something our grandparents
went through, okay? So that's a long, long time
ago. Average Canadian worker is less machinery
and equipment to work with, lower productivity,
right? Fewer raw materials, ideas, and inputs
being transformed into goods and services. And
while the total GDP looks bigger on paper, It's
because the population grew so significantly.
Like many countries, a lot of immigrants were
let in thinking that was a solution or lack of
control of borders. Who knows? But now we're
dealing with consequences. And as a result, Canada
and Canadians are not generating more economic
value per person. And Canada ranks last in G7
per capita GDP growth over this period. So that
is really something. And it's interesting being
on this side of the pond because the UK government
is also talking, how are we doing against our
G7 frenemies? So there's a lot going on on that.
And when we talk about the low productivity issue,
which has been an issue here as well as in Canada,
okay, people generate less tax revenue and that
affects the deficit, right? This budget deficit,
the headline numbers, $78 billion. It's nearly
doubled. Whereas the prior year deficit was $62
billion, which was a 77 % jump from the prior
year. So deficits are accelerating. And why are
we having the deficits increase? Revenue loss
from scrapping the retaliatory tariffs on the
U .S. expected about $20 billion. relief measures
to tariff industries, huge increase in defense
spending to meet our NATO commitment, which Canada
has consistently been a low performer. And it's
always been embarrassing. And Rob, I know you've
supported the military through your work with
veterans for a number of years, but to see Canada
always at the bottom, that has been an ongoing
concern. Yeah, and that's one area in this budget
where you see clear increase. in real spending
and investment. Part of it is... Which is great
to see. Yeah, yeah. I think most people agree
it's long, long overdue. And there's money for
new hires, but as well to raise some of the standards
of our service, men and women, be able to pay
higher salaries. But investment in technology,
investment in the North, That is a clear focus,
and that is partly why you see sustained deficit
spending for a while. There's an investment needed.
Great. So you mentioned earlier Canada has to
attract foreign capital. We always have needed
it, but more so today. But now Canada has this
reputation as being a difficult place to deal
with. So now we're going to get into it. What's
going on? Our World Bank ease of doing business
rankings. Canada fell from number four globally
in 2006 to 23rd by 2020. And it's taken three
to six years just for a regulatory review. We
had Michael McPhee on last week or a couple of
weeks ago, and he talked about 15 years to get
a mining project going is kind of standard. This
is regulatory accumulation. It's a factor everywhere
in all countries. But it looks like it's been
out of control, especially with federal, provincial
levels, the ping pong going back and forth. And
then Indigenous nations have a right to be consulted.
So why don't we, that's the bad news. Here's
where we are. The great news is the future is
bright, right? So why don't you take us out of
this bleak picture that I've... Paint it from
London. You're on the ground in Calgary, right?
Well, I will pass on some positive news. I had
a breakfast last week with four of the CEOs of
some of Canada's biggest pension funds. And it
was a breakfast with 100 or more people. But
the CEOs were in conversation about their outlook
on the Canadian economy and the global economy.
in general. And long term, even medium term,
they're very bullish on where Canada is headed
and its place in the global economy. We just
have too much going for us. And they are encouraged
by some of the recent attempts to streamline
approvals, processes, some of the focus on capital
investment. And, you know, they said things like
in the short term, there is some pain and there's
some adjustment as we reduce and try to reduce
regulatory burden while still coping with the
different rights holders and stakeholders who
have an interest in everything that's happening.
But there's an adjustment that is happening and
there's... A prime minister who, if he understands
one thing, it's economic issues and foreign investment
requirements. And so they were encouraged about
our long -term prospects and our place in the
world. They would like to invest more in Canada
themselves. So they're quite eager and they were
anticipating some of the budget moves. they're
ready to open up their checkbooks again. Good
news, because for a long time, they've just been
primarily focused overseas. So that's really
positive feedback. And coming back to Prime Minister
Carney, he knows how to make money, right? He
knows what you have to do to succeed. And, you
know, with his international background and experience,
you know, Governor of Bank of Canada, Governor
of the Bank of England. And the work that he's
done globally, he knows the importance of competing.
And to have a high level of compete is what Canada
needs to succeed. So that's great. And 800 companies
chose Canada last year. Right? They decide to
invest in Canada. So those are good numbers.
Absolutely. And some of the fine print in that
budget. But from an Indigenous economy perspective,
I was encouraged to see quite a few things, actually.
For example, our friends over at First Nations
Finance Authority, Ernie Daniels and the gang
have been working hard for a while to get a change
to legislation that would allow FNFA to lend.
to special purpose vehicles, the way their governing
legislation works at the moment. They're only
permitted to lend directly to their members.
If you recall, their members are First Nations
who've been certified by the First Nations Financial
Management Board. And so up to this point, FNFA
is only permitted to lend directly to First Nations
who are their members. But more and more with
these projects, there are special purpose vehicles
that are set up. And this change in legislation,
which will now have to come, so the budget just
announced that they will be tabling legislation
to make this change, which will free up FNFA
to lend directly to SPVs instead of having to
circumvent and do indirectly financed projects.
This will allow... more projects to be financed
by FNFA, who seem to have insatiable demand for
their bonds. They just raised almost $500 million
more a couple of weeks ago in the debt capital
markets. They say they can raise more if the
projects are there, and this change will allow
them to lend to more projects, and it will allow
First Nations who take advantage of this SPV
route to not necessarily put their assets at
risk. If they've got a government guarantee,
then they won't have to put their assets at risk.
And that'll be another feature, I think, of this
change in legislation. Anyway, very encouraging.
And I'm sure our FNFA friends are happy this
morning to see that. Yes, that is good news.
And it builds on the work, as you said, Ernie
Daniels and his team have been doing. over the
past number of years now. We've been talking
a bit about Canada and deficits and it's a larger
deficit. But when we look at our debt to GDP
ratio in Canada, there's a lot of fiscal capacity
because Canada at the federal level, the debt
sits around 42 % of GDP, right? Size of the economy.
The US is 95 to 100 and every day they shut down.
I'm sure that number is pushing up. How can you
be out of business for 30 days? How can a country
prosper in those situations? The UK is around
100%. We all know the challenges the UK has.
France is 110 % plus. Italy is 140 % plus, but
coming down. Maloney seems to be doing a good
job. And Japan's at 260 % plus. So for all the
challenges that Canada has. The great thing,
going back a lot to Prime Minister Chrétien and
his finance minister, Paul Martin, and under
the Stephen Harper Conservatives, there's a solid
fiscal foundation in Canada. And now with Prime
Minister Carney, as we've talked about his knowledge
and experience, to build on that, he has the
capacity to do things. So Canada has real borrowing
capacity that peer countries simply don't have.
That's a great point, Mark. And I think that's
part of the point that the CEOs at the breakfast
or the pension funds were making, that all of
this is relative. We've got our issues, but other
countries have bigger issues. And when you look
around, I think Canada's in a great spot for
a lot of reasons. I was reading a quote just
this week from one of my old professors at Western.
economics professor Peter Howitt, who just recently
was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics this
year. Oh, fantastic. That was something, wasn't
it? It was. It was great. And you were one of
his students. So hopefully some of this rubbed
off on you, Ralph. I was one of his students.
You know I'm a failed, frustrated business student,
but I did economics at Western, and law was always
a plan B for me. That's okay. Okay, well, aren't
we lucky. But to quote Peter Howitt, and I'll
read from what he said, they were asking him
about how you think Canada is set up to absorb
the fallout from the AI bubble that everybody
thinks is a bubble, just don't know when it's
going to burst. And he says, Canada is particularly
fortunate in having a conservative kind of financial
system, which is quite sensibly regulated. And
it's generally thought amongst economists that
Canada has the worst financial system of all
until there's a financial crash. And then it's
the best of them all. So I think Canada is probably
going to do as well as anybody when that AI bubble
crashes. Wow. Great quote, and from a Nobel Prize
winner, which I haven't heard of any big names
from the US winning a Nobel Prize. Certainly,
if you're listening, Canada got that one, right?
And of course, other advantages. Canada has political
stability, which is increasingly rare around
the world. And when you think of that, we have
a parliamentary democracy plus a written constitution.
So we have something very unique. that other
parliament democracies don't necessarily have.
So I think that's important. Rule of law obviously
functions due to people like you, Rob. We don't
have too many lawyers, but we got enough to make
sure the rule of law still functions. Canada
has the most highly educated workforce in the
G7. And of course, Canada is endowed with natural
resources for energy. Oil, gas, uranium, hydro,
wind, solar potential, the Bay of Fundy off the
East Coast. If we could ever crack that one,
we'd be lighting up the Eastern seaboard, right?
Critical minerals for batteries and clean tech
and supply chain and defense security, agriculture.
The prairies are a breadbasket for the world.
Fresh water. I think Canada has the largest reserves
of fresh water around the world. We grow up with
that. We don't really appreciate. what that means.
So Canada has so much going for it. So why don't
we talk, Rob, about Carney's vision and what
you've seen from the budget and how it comes
back to the opportunity by working with Indigenous
nations to make Canada that energy superpower.
Yeah, there's some other interesting initiatives
aimed at the Indigenous economy. They're going
to table legislation and I think a pilot project
to help First Nations contractors get bonded.
So at the moment, there's a problem under the
Indian Act with First Nations businesses and
people using assets on reserve. for collateral
and if you're a construction company your contractor
and you want to get bonded because you have to
do for these big jobs but you can't use your
collateral uh your assets that you've got on
reserve you can imagine how that uh crazy yeah
how that restricts you so there's a proposal
uh again i think this is something that ffa have
been pushing for for a while but uh to take money
uh and i think they're going to do a pilot project
uh sell a bond in the market and then use that
money to fund different first nations contractors
to allow to make it easier to for them to get
bonded to compete for construction projects procurement
is a huge opportunity when you talk about defense
and all the procurement possibilities that are
coming there If you're a First Nations business
and you want to participate in that, you'll need
to get bonded. And this program hopefully will
help make that easier to do. Well, it has to.
How can you compete when you can't get bonded?
And you can't get bonded because of the Indian
Act, if that's not tying your hands behind your
back. The Inuit now, luckily, weren't covered
by the Indian Act. Okay, I think it was too cold
and most people just didn't think about it. They're
ready and set to go for opportunities in the
Arctic. But you have Canada going to have 12
submarines. We haven't had that many, I think,
in history. And certainly, I'm not even sure
if the Canadian Navy has 12 ships today. But
at the end of World War II, we had the third
largest navy in the world. And for that contract
of 12 submarines, and they're diesel, not nuclear,
we are talking, Canada is talking to German shipyards.
Prime Minister Karim was visiting there. And
when he was over, he was talking to the South
Koreans who have a very strong shipbuilding program.
So both those countries and those companies in
those countries will be looking, how do we succeed
with Indigenous nations to help win those contracts?
Because that will be very important. And I think
sometimes when you're coming from outside of
Canada. you have a greater respect for the cultural
differences when you're dealing with the Indigenous
peoples of Canada because you expect them to
be different. Whereas sometimes Canadians think,
oh, well, we're all in Canada, we all like the
same things and don't really think through what
it means to be an Indigenous Canadian and the
barriers. So hopefully that bond issue gets settled
right away. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that's
encouraging and I'll have to see the details.
There's another initiative to allow First Nations
to monetize their transfer payments that they
would get on an annual basis from the federal
government to run those programs and to make
investments in particular on their reserves.
so this is a new initiative in the budget as
well excellent uh and so that again will allow
first nations to secure effectively those future
revenues that they're going to be getting transfer
transfers from the federal government but use
them today to make investments these are long
-term capital investments so that's encouraging
There's reference to establishing some tax jurisdiction
frameworks with more First Nations. So I think
that's hinting at wanting more to provide more
tax taxing authorities to Indigenous communities
to raise their own revenues and give them tax.
taxing authorities. There's, for example, a resource
charge that's been talked about. I don't think
that's mentioned in this budget, but that's one
of the possibilities when you talk about establishing
tax jurisdiction frameworks, which would allow
Indigenous people to tax more directly some of
the projects in their territories. There's a
Housing Build Canada Homes initiative, which
is going to include Indigenous housing as part
of that. So all of that is encouraging. It is.
So when you look at Canada, fiscal room, resources,
and stability, and the clarity now that the Indigenous
peoples of Canada, through the Supreme Court,
what's in the Constitution, UNDRIP, there's that
stability, whereas in the past, it hasn't been
clear. Right? Now it is. The Indigenous peoples
are your partners. They are rights holders. That's
how to achieve things. The old way doesn't work
anymore. So you have a clear vision. And again,
we've heard from many of our guests on podcasts,
when you work with the Indigenous peoples to
make your projects succeed, you have long -term
commitment because they're not looking, how do
I make a buck today? They're thinking seven generations
ahead. They know how to get things done because
it's their land and they've navigated the bureaucracy
that's been imposed on them, unfortunately, successfully.
So they know how to play it. Yeah, there's talk,
there's a bit of fleshing out of the first, the
major projects office and a couple hundred million
dollars allocated to that and also the Indigenous
Advisory Council, which will advise that office
and make sure. indigenous equity participation
and other indigenous meaningful indigenous participation
is a part of all of these projects that's reinforced
in this budget as well so that that all is encouraging
i like the talk of the arctic infrastructure
fund there's a Critical Minerals Sovereign Wealth
Fund that's being established. We've seen a real
-life example just recently with a graphite miner
being funded by the Canadian government. Effectively,
the government has signed an offtake agreement
guaranteeing a minimum price for the graphite.
That's excellent. That's a first in a long time.
Critical Minerals Sovereign Wealth Fund is going
to make more investments like that to allow this
miner to get funded and ensure the economics
work. And then the federal government is going
to try to get other countries signed up to this
Critical Minerals Sovereign Wealth Fund. And
that's all to battle. uh the might of china in
this in this space and take some of that power
back and the insecurity of the u .s right canada
remains your preferred north american partner
we've always been loyal yeah so with all those
great assets including its people indigenous
and non -indigenous it's a place to come and
do business in I'm sure that's the message Prime
Minister Carney is out there pushing, and he
has the reputation to deliver that. What about
the initial feedback, Rob, from... I know it's
only morning, and you may have been to the breakfast
already. Okay. But what's the initial feedback
from people you've been speaking with after the
budget? Well, literally got off the plane while
the budget was being... uh announced and uh have
been sleeping i have not been to the breakfast
yet so i don't know what others are thinking
i've you know i mentioned goldie heider uh who
is also here uh would have liked to have seen
more um indigenous reaction uh i i think there's
there's Those are the encouraging things that
I see. There's also the 2 % cut to Indigenous
services, Canada and Indigenous relations. All
government departments are going to have to work
with less people and less money. And that's going
to hit some of the programs. And so when you're
already talking about being behind and there
being gaps when it comes to Indigenous... infrastructure
and services, having to work with even less money
going forward and fewer people. That's going
to be a big challenge. And AI won't magically
solve all productivity issues overnight. That's
a period of adjustment. Yes. And I think, you
know, I was surprised when I read that about
Indigenous services. being cut back and understand
you know share the pain across all departments
but indigenous services is not just like all
departments because the people it's serving aren't
treated equally and there's still barriers just
as we're talking about you know how to get a
bond when you're on a reserve right it just so
that was that was a surprising move uh but hopefully
hopefully Some of these others will give the
compensation because I think some of the most
competitive businesses today are Indigenous led
and run. And we've spoken to some of these guys
and they're hungry. So if Canada becomes an even
more welcoming business environment, they're
going to be fighting for their share of that.
And they've had to compete because they've had
so many restrictions. You've had so many restrictions
placed on you. I think they're trying to lay
the groundwork. If it's not as transformative
as people would have hoped, I think they are
trying to lay groundwork for private capital
to come in within Canada and outside of Canada.
There's some tax deductions and some other initiatives
that will make it cheaper to do business in Canada,
which will be attractive. They're trying to reduce
the regulatory burden. They were outwardly beyond
North America, very focused on those places for
capital. And they're trying to encourage more
meaningful Indigenous participation and economic
development. It will be transformative if the
private sector, private investors take advantage
of these initiatives. Yes. And Canada depends
on the private sector. If it's led, our wealth
is dependent on private enterprise saying this
is a good place to invest. And it looks like
they're making Canada more attractive in the
global competition for capital, whether it's
money or brains. Canada is back open for businesses,
what I like to think about. Now, Carney also
talked when he was in Asia about... Canada being
an energy superpower. And it's mentioned that
time and time again, and that's true. And I think
there's 40 billion available through crown corporations
for major energy and infrastructure projects,
right? You've talked about some of the tax changes
and investment incentives aimed at unlocking
a trillion in total investment over the next
five years, which is what they're looking for.
And, you know, this is mostly private money.
The government can only go so far. So let's come
back to the vision for Canada. Reduce reliance
on the U .S. amid the trade war. And even if
the trade war ends tomorrow, Canadians are not
going back to the way it was. There's a big discussion
about a nuclear energy deal with Westinghouse
and Cameco. And a lot of people are saying, well,
why aren't we using Can -Do, Canadian nuclear
technology? Why are we partnering with that?
Do we really want to be dependent on the Americans
for our nuclear reactors? So that will continue.
Canada is a stable energy and critical minerals
partner for all nations around the world. Canada
will continue to position itself as a leader
in clean energy and the clean energy economy.
And the infrastructure is being put in place
to grow the economy faster than the debt. And
I think everybody's up for the challenge. Canada
is one of the top five globally in oil, uranium.
hydro and natural gas. We've talked about wind
and solar. Okay, we have traditional energy and
clean energy. And you mentioned about critical
minerals. So I think we're in a very, very strong
place going forward. And it might not be as transformative
as we thought, but Canada is certainly becoming
more investable, right? Let's bring this home.
Absolutely, Mark. Yeah, one step at a time, but
we are moving in the right direction and I'm
encouraged. Yes, record FDI in the past year,
even with all the mess, right? Canada, record
FDI in 2024. So Canada is transforming. This
is a real change. I think it's important to mention
at this point in time because we've... We've
covered a lot today, Rob. It's been great to
catch up with you even before breakfast in Calgary.
Okay. I skipped lunch for this podcast. Okay.
So we're both kind of looking for some energy,
but the conversation itself has been very energetic.
And, you know, as we're coming into November
now, it's Remembrance Day. As our viewers can
see, we have our poppies on. Canada was formed.
The Canada, what we as Canadians call Canada
today, Vimy Ridge in World War I and World War
II were defining moments for Canada as it stood
on its path. But the history of Canada has been
fought for by the Indigenous peoples of Canada
from the get -go. That's where our relationship
came from, fighting together to be free, not
to be ruled by a dictator in Washington. which
has proven itself in recent times. And in World
War I, even with the constraints that the Indigenous
peoples had, they were out there fighting for
the country. Yeah, per capita basis, sacrificed
more than any other group of people and all on
a volunteer basis. So it is an important week
to remember all of our service. people uh and
all of those who especially gave their lives
um and we also remember marie sinclair this week
who died passed away one year ago what a huge
loss for canada as well as the indigenous peoples
of canada because he truth and reconciliation
commission i've said this many times but one
of those rare individuals who when i heard him
speak, I stopped whatever I was doing to listen
and listen intently. So we remember him this
week and Indigenous Veterans Day coming up. We
remember especially all those Indigenous veterans
and also Remembrance Sunday and Remembrance Day.
A very special week. We shall remember them.
And just for some of our viewers who didn't know
you in the UK, and I think many of them did,
our viewers and listeners, can you talk a little
bit about the Maple Leaf Trust over here in the
UK and its work? Maple Leaf Trust was set up
after World War II to help Canadian veterans
and their families who were settling in the UK
and weren't returning to Canada. uh and fell
between the cracks of government support because
they weren't in canada they were in the uk but
they weren't brits and so this charity was set
up to help support those veterans and families
that still exist today we still have three spouses
three veterans on our books not all from world
war ii we still actually have a spouse whose
husband fought For the Brits in World War I and
for Canada in World War II, you can imagine.
And the Maple Leaf Trust also does many other
things. Today it funds many scholarships for
Canadians studying in the UK. We're also associated
with the Terry Fox Foundation and help raise
money for cancer research led by a Canadian professor
in London. And so many great initiatives as well
as just honoring veterans in different ways.
So special time, a time to remember all those
who went before us. So thank you, Rob. Great
to catch up. Look forward to seeing you next
week on our podcast. Absolutely. Thanks, Mark.
It's great talking to you. Enjoy Calgary. Thanks.
May they win a game. Thank you for joining Rob
and I today in a special podcast where we discussed
an issue of critical importance for our listeners
and viewers. Be sure to share, subscribe, and
leave a review on your favorite podcast channel.
Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. Until next
time. Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2026
Summit taking place on the 8th of April. Be sure
to share, subscribe, and leave a review on your
favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening
to Drumbeats. Until next time.