Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Rob Brant and
I are joined today by Dallas Smith, President
of Nanwakola's Council and the Board Chair for
Coast Funds. In this Drumbeats episode, we discuss
his background and the impact of Coast Funds
on the Great Bear Rainforest. Coast Funds, an
endowment of nearly half a billion dollars, was
created to support conservation and economic
development in the Great Bear Rainforest, protecting
3 .1 million hectares and generating over $100
million for economic development. Smith highlighted
the importance of Indigenous involvement in conservation
financing, and we also discussed the potential
for free trade amongst Indigenous communities
worldwide. He also touched more deeply on the
role of tourism, particularly wildlife viewing
in supporting local economies and the challenges
of balancing development with conservation. Dallas
Smith, President, Chair of Nanwakalas Council,
also Chair of Coast Funds, and wearing some other
hats, literally and figuratively. Thanks for
taking the time to join us on Drumbeats. Oh,
happy to be here. Thanks for having me. And my
hat. Pleasure to have you. Yes. And the hat collection
is distinctive. As we talked earlier before the
program, it used to be an element of style for
just about every man. So you're maintaining the
standards for the rest of us. So thank you for
that. I can't wait to get outside and get on
my hat and look the part. There we go. Great
to have you with us, as Rob said, Dallas. Just
to come into the session a little bit now. So
Dallas, you have roots from all four corners
of the Kwakwala speaking peoples. How has this
broad cultural foundation shaped your approach
to business and leadership? And why don't you
talk a little bit about your background and just
introduce to our audience over here in the UK
and beyond? Yeah, no, again, thanks for having
me. It's always nice to be able to share some
perspective and to be able to share some Indigenous
perspective in the United Kingdom, something
that I couldn't pass up. But yeah, my name is
Dallas Smith. I grew up actually in the lower
mainland of Vancouver. My parents come from remote
First Nations communities on the north end of
Vancouver Island, and they didn't want me to
go to school in the North Island because the
school system had some challenges in those days.
There was still quite a bit of racism and still
some other social challenges that the communities
were facing. They decided when they found out
they were having me that we were going to go
suburban. And so I had the luxury of both worlds.
I kind of grew up in suburban Vancouver. But
would go home three, four times a year for various
cultural events. And then as I got a little bit
older, I would go home to go fishing every summer
with my uncles and different things. So I kind
of like to say I got the best of both worlds.
I got a very solid kindergarten to grade 12 education.
Grade 12 might have taken two times, but we don't
need to talk about that too much. But yeah, so
like I said, I got to learn the perspective of
being kind of an urban. First Nations kid, but
also, you know, got enough cultural support and
background to grow up knowing who I was and where
I came from and being able to be very proud of
that, which was somewhat a bit of a challenge
in, you know, the late 70s, early 80s when I
was growing up and really still is today, just
with the rural -urban divide that exists and
First Nations really get caught up in that. But
I'm happy to be here. Well, great to have you.
And as Rob's a golfer and I'm a... I'm a fisherman.
You've kind of covered both the bases. So I'm
sure we'll have a great conversation then. Rob.
There we go. Dallas, you're involved with some
really, really interesting, impactful organizations.
Why don't you just tell us first a little bit
about Coast Funds? It's ironic I'm here actually
for a celebration on Coast Funds that we're having
over the next couple of days here in Vancouver
right now. Coast Funds was an endowment that
was brought together to make the Great Bear Rainforest
work from a First Nations point of view. For
years, we were involved at a planning table and
we watched the environmentalists and the forest
companies fight over our backyards, really. You
know, there was a big boycott on BC wood products
in Europe at the time, kind of mid -90s. It was
called the War in the Woods. And the environmentalists
were getting so sophisticated that they went
to Europe where so much BC pulp and paper was
used in the magazine industry. And I had learned
that, you know, most of the magazines throughout
Europe and North America were printed in Germany.
And so there is a real big focus on BC wood products
in Germany. And the government of British Columbia
had to weigh in and start, you know, bringing
some remedies to the situations around clear
-cut logging and some of those things that were
happening in British Columbia. And so First Nations
were invited to join this planning table that
was called the Central Coast LRMP, Land and Resource
Management Plan, just for those who hate acronyms
as much as I do. And it was a planning process
that brought together all the stakeholders. And
the First Nations at the time were just trying
to really find their stride on where we fit within
the world. We knew we had jurisdiction over our
reserves, but we had these vast traditional territories
that we really didn't have much input on. And
so the chiefs of the day decided that we better
join this process. But we told the government
of British Columbia that we'd only join if they
recognized us as a government. And so we coordinated
ourselves and got together and we went through
a terms of reference and got into this planning
process. But then we slugged it out for years
with all the different stakeholder groups. And
one of the challenges that we had was we weren't
really involved in the forest industry directly
at that point in time. But we also didn't want
to see the opportunities lost through the development
of protected areas. And so one of the great chiefs
in the North Coast, a chief named Percy Starr
from the village of Clem II, challenged the environmentalists
to make conservation pay for itself. How can
you make conservation become an economic driver
for our communities? And to the environmental
activist's credit, they took him up on that challenge
and they created, well not created, they introduced
conservation financing to us. And so that was
a way of where philanthropic dollars were being
raised to level against future protected areas.
And so we protected 3 .1 million hectares throughout
the Great Bear Rainforest, roughly the size of
Ireland, I've been told, when we compare it to,
you know, different sizes. and categories but
there was 120 million dollar economic development
fund that was developed as a result of those
negotiations and that's what coast fund was it
was 60 million dollars of private philanthropic
dollars matched by 30 million from the province
and 30 million by the federal government and
so out of that 120 million dollars 60 million
is a sinking fund where we've been spending spending
it down over the years. We thought it was going
to take about eight years to spend it down, but
it took about 15 to spend it down because of
leveraging opportunities. But then the other
60 million is in an endowment that we only live
off the interest from. And so different First
Nations have different projects and different
priorities. And over the years, they pool their
earnings and take it out in various chunks of
money for various stewardship initiatives. And
so Coast Funds was something that was developed
by other people for First Nations, but over the
15 years since it's actually... 15, probably
18 years now since we've actually developed the
concept. It's a lot more First Nations -led now.
We actually have more First Nations people on
the board. We have strategic plans that are developed
in conjunction with First Nations communities.
But Coast Funds is the first placeholder for
an economic development fund like that, which
later became what's called a project for permanence.
And so there's different conservation initiatives
throughout the world right now that include Indigenous
people. There's 11 of them being negotiated right
now, and two of them were through the Great Bear
Rainforest. One's on the terrestrial side, and
the second one represents our marine interests.
When we finished the terrestrial negotiations
and that 3 .1 million hectares of conservation
land, etc., all the other things that came with
it, our elders reminded us that we're coastal
people. So to just do the terrestrial part left
it unfinished. And so while we really enjoyed
the opportunities we leveraged through the terrestrial
negotiations, we knew that it wasn't going to
be complete until we completed a marine component.
So after the terrestrial part was done, we buckled
down and we did marine stewardship plans and
marine operating plans, which have resulted in
a marine protected area strategy, which has brought
in another chunk of philanthropic dollars, matched
by $200 million by Prime Minister Trudeau a couple
of years at COP15, when Canada made its commitment
to the 30 by 30 biodiversity. where they're going
to protect 30 % of Canada's biodiversity. So
we worked with the federal government in helping
them achieve some of those goals, and we simply
added to the sinking fund that we have. So Coast
Funds now manages over $435 million on behalf
of First Nations groups up and down the coast
of British Columbia and the Great Bear Rainforest.
Wow. Can't believe how far we've gone until you
actually spin it all out in kind of one long
line. Incredible. Explain just where we're talking
about, Great Bear Rainforest. So the Great Bear
Rainforest, and by the way, I... I couldn't stand
the name when I was a young negotiator full of
vinegar and the other stuff that matches with
vinegar when you're using those terms. But the
Great Bear Rainforest extends from Comox on Vancouver
Island and the adjacent mainland up to the Alaskan
border. So the bottom of the Alaskan panhandle
where Prince Rupert is. um that's sort of the
area that encompasses the great bear rainforest
and so there's 26 different first nations who
are involved in the original terrestrial round
and there's 17 involved in the newly formed marine
component i think even today there'd be some
canadians who don't realize there is a rainforest
on the west coast definitely lost intact temperate
rainforest in north america actually which was
the reason why the environmentalists put so much
money and effort into the area because of the
connected biodiversity values that went from
one part of the coast to the top of the coast
and so while we do have a history of logging
we also have tremendous old growth forests that
house a bunch of flora and fauna and all the
animals and whatnot and there's a connectivity
issue that helped to make it possible so if you
actually look at the map there's different protected
areas that come down the coast as we've worked
through the process. And again, you know, I think
it was, Ireland was kind of the European equivalent
of the size of area that we're talking. So pretty
vast. And is the fund, so you're getting more,
you're managing more funds from First Nations,
different First Nations. Are you looking at what
is the future for Coast funds? Are you looking
for more third party funding to do more? Definitely.
There's always a growth plan. You know, we find
out no matter how much money you have in management,
you always sort of need more if you're going
to complement the visions of the communities
that you're helping to work with and represent.
So the idea is to have functioning stewardship
offices for all the First Nations within the
Great Bear Rainforest. And so that means having
a set amount of funding each year that they can
actually plan around. In the early stages of
stewardship visions and all those sorts of things,
it was really part -time work because we could
never get the funding to have someone work full
-time in the stewardship of their territories.
And so Coast Fund's goal is to make sure that...
We have that capacity year round. And so we're
still working with different industries. The
cruise ship industry is one that's a notable
example that we're working with to say, OK, we've
made decisions on protection that help the viewscapes
of commercial cruise line traffic that's going
through. And so we're asking them to invest in
the future that we're trying to develop in the
Great Bear Rainforest. There's some other seafood
industries that we're still trying to get to
the table to you know, ante up and get into the
game a little bit. I think we all benefit from
sustainable management of natural resources,
but also keeping the ecological beauty that's
in place, the intact temperate rainforest, the
marine scapes. And so we want people using our
territories to become part of that. To become
part of that, they have to invest in it. And
it's not like the old days where it sounds like
a shakedown where we're sort of saying, pay the
toll or you're not coming through. It's just,
let's complement the vision that has been developed
over the years. And as people want to partake
in that, there's an accountability that we'd
like to have people at the table working with
us. Yes, I think Canada is a modern country.
We don't have shakedowns in Canada anymore. But
our southern neighbor, I'm not sure about these
days. That's been an interesting side of it.
As we develop the 3 .1 million hectares of protected
area, there's still operating areas that a lot
of our communities depend on. We're still loggers
at the end of the day. We're still fishermen
by trade at the end of the day. And having ourselves
caught in the global awareness of tariff issues
has been a bit of an eye -opener for us now that
we finally own forest tenure and we're developing
these resources and part of the actual equity.
of these businesses, getting hit by 35 % tariffs
and duties is something that we've just never
fathomed before. So it's an interesting time
for us trying to learn how to work with not only
our nations and the forest companies that we're
working with, but we're also talking to different
Indigenous groups in the United States and around
the world about exploring free trade opportunities,
Indigenous community to Indigenous community
free trade opportunities. And so that's one of
the tools we're working on right now to try and
mitigate the impacts of softwood lumber and the
countervailing duties that have been imposed
by President Trump over the last couple of months.
Just coming back to, you mentioned earlier in
your career, Europe was the destination for paper,
particularly in Germany for the publishing houses.
Is that still a viable market? Is BC still active?
BC doesn't send as much over anymore just because
of the digital age now. People aren't buying
National Enquirer and all the tabloids and all
the other magazines that our wood products were
used for. But we are trying to diversify our
markets around the world. And Europe still is
a trading partner with us for some of our forest
resources. But we're also in competition with
Finland and Russia and other places that have
some vast fiber opportunities. So that's an interesting.
side of the game that, you know, a real remote
First Nations community of 200 people don't realize
where they fit in the global stage on some of
these issues right now. So it's a bit of an awakening
for some of our communities, for sure. And the
idea of free trade between Indigenous peoples,
that there is a, it's not a free trade agreement,
but a memorandum between, signed by Canada, I
think New Zealand, for maybe even the US and
Australia. Is it to look at ways for indigenous
people to cooperate and trade more? Is there
an angle, you think, to actually achieve free
trade across some of those borders? You know,
in theory, it's doable. We have the J -Trading
in the United States, which gives us nation -to
-nation trade across the border for... more traditional
goods that, you know, we've used across the border.
Again, you know, the 49th parallel crosses so
many Indigenous communities. There's so many
Indigenous communities that span that 49th parallel.
And so the Jay Treaty was really about acknowledging
the right of those communities to trade back
and forth. But we think that there's opportunities
within there that we're preparing to explore
right now. We're talking to a number of nations
along the Columbia River, between Washington
State and Oregon State. We're talking to a couple
nations in the Southwest around opportunities
to start trading lumber into the communities.
And we're really sort of interested and curious
on how either government's going to react. It's
one of those things like, oh, you crazy Indians,
you crazy First Nations, here you go plotting
and scheming about things you're going to do.
And we're trying to figure out, you know, what
is the best way to start the discussion? Do we
send? 50 ,000 trillion board feet across on a
container barge? Do we send one truckload hoping
that that's all that's going to be confiscated?
So we're in the fun time of trying to figure
out how we can do it. We've sort of built a bit
of a process and we've got a bit of a roadmap.
Now someone's actually got to mechanize it and
do the first run. I don't want to say across
the border because that really makes it sound
like we're doing something sketchy, but who's
going to be the first one who actually opens
up a viable trade opportunity? So it's good to
try to find solutions to problems that other
people create. Yeah, well, as a Mohawk, I'm keenly
aware of those cross -border issues in the Jay
Treaty, which just to give a bit of background
was a treaty signed between the US and the British.
government back in the late 1700s following the
American Revolution, and there were still some
loose ends to tie up. So in the late 20 years
after the war had ended, they signed this treaty
to help clarify some border issues and some other
trade issues. And among that, within that treaty,
there's a clause about Indigenous peoples and
their ability to work and trade across the border.
And the U .S. government did ratify it and enacted
into law. You can look on the U .S. State Department's
website today and it'll describe what you have
to do to be able to take advantage of those provisions
when you come into the U .S. Canadian government
never did ratify it or enact it into law. And
so there's a question about enforceability on
this side of the border. But yeah, that's a really
interesting. Growing up on the border in White
Rock in suburban Vancouver, it was really about
getting cheaper milk and eggs than we could go
across the line back in the 80s. But yeah, no,
it's interesting to take. you know, colonial
constructs such as different treaties that weren't
signed really by any of our nations, but, you
know, using loopholes or using opportunities
that exist within them to try further a jurisdictional
discussion that's really a lot more prevalent
than people think, you know, dealing with some
of these issues in Canada. We're finally starting
to talk to, you know, some of the Mohawks and
talk to other people across Canada about, okay,
we're all facing similar problems. How can we
band together a little bit? And that's something
we're really hoping to put some pressure on the
Assembly of First Nations to start looking at
outside of the box thinking. Too long as First
Nations people, people put these boxes around
us and we've just stayed within them because
we're very polite. We're very, you know, peaceful
people. But we've got to learn to start looking
outside of the box a little bit. is one of the
things around trade that we think we're going
to not only get some attention to the issues
that are there, but hopefully some solutions.
Yes. And I think that's one of the, that Canada
has to be doing now as well. Thinking outside
the box, how do we realize the full potential
of Canada that's built on the foundation of the
Indigenous people? And how do we chart a new
path where all Canadians, Indigenous and non
-Indigenous, can live together and succeed and
grow a society that delivers for everybody in
the country, as well as also as a bit of a beacon
for the world to say this is how to get things
done and how to create a great country that appeals
to all and newcomers as well. So that will be
interesting. And of course, treaties have been
used for such a long time to hold back the potential
of the Indigenous people. It's good you're finally
at this spot. Well, how do we leverage some of
these? And I'm sure the Canadian government would
love it if you're able to be shipping a bunch
of stuff across the border for lumber. I think
there's more cheerleaders for us than we originally
thought when we started the concept. I mean,
there's not many who are saying, yeah, I'll jump
in the truck with you. But there's a few saying,
yeah, you should try that. That's a good idea.
Not many. Yeah, I wouldn't volunteer to jump
in that truck either. Thankfully, I don't have
an air brakes license, so it won't be me. Solves
that problem too. Great. Dallas, he touched on
some of the tourism initiatives, but it's such
a beautiful part. of the world that we've been
talking about. What else is going on up there
that you're looking at generating? Tourism is
an interesting one. It's something that's always
been dangled in front of us. When people are
trying to stop us from developing natural resources,
tourism is the first thing that sort of gets
thrown. I won't say in our face in that sort
of fashion, but it's something that gets dangled
in front of us. Tourism is such a subjective
term that we're really trying to figure out how
we fit within that within the Great Bear Rainforest.
Some of us have gotten into wildlife viewing,
understanding that while we may take for granted
growing up within the Great Bear Rainforest and
all the animal species that are a part of it,
how iconic they all are, we forget how much of
a taste and a flavor this is for other parts
of the world. And so in 2017, Namakola's Council,
the organization that's my day job, we acquired
a business called Night Inlet Grizzly Tours.
And so we run a remote grizzly bear viewing operation
in the middle of Knights Inlet. And this is one
of the great things about doing your guys' podcast
is 90 % of our clientele is from outside of North
America. It's people who want to come see a grizzly
bear. They want to see a spirit bear. They want
to see whales. They want to see eagles. And there's
a real opportunity for us to braid in or weave
in, if you will, some traditional ecological
knowledge within the actual... you know, wildlife
experience. And so we can talk about our relationship
with some of these animals and how we've managed
to coexist with them for 10 ,000, 12 ,000 years
as we're starting to find out in some of these
areas. And so that's been an eye opener for us
on just how much opportunity there is in tourism.
And so we're really looking at what are some
of the infrastructure needs that we have because
we are in remote communities. I'm in the southern
part of the Great Bear Rainforest where everything's
a 35 -minute flight from Vancouver. So we have
a few more opportunities than others to draw
people in. But there's other areas within the
remote part of the Great Bear Rainforest that
you can only get to by seaplane or by boat. And
so we're really trying to have a bigger ticket
regional discussion on what kind of infrastructure
do we need. to draw in enough tourism to invest
in opportunities like that, but not to turn into
Whistler or other iconic places where you just
have so much foot traffic that it eventually
starts to degrade the actual ecological natural
experience. So we're at a bit of a crossroads
on how much do we want to develop for tourism
and how much do we just want to build some subtle
infrastructure that helps us promote tourism.
And different nations are taking some different
approaches that we're starting to share with
each other. Well, in the interest of promoting
this a little bit, can you explain to certainly
me the difference between a great bear and a
spirit bear? So it's really, I mean, go back
to, you know, why I didn't like the name the
great bear rainforest is the Komodi bear, the
spirit bear, if you will, it's a white bear.
So it's a black bear that has recessive genes.
It's an albino black bear. And it only occurs
in certain parts of the Great Bear Rainforest.
They don't have them in my part. In the southern
parts of the Great Bear Rainforest, they don't
exist. But up in Clem 2 and Hartley Bay and some
of those areas a little bit farther up the coast,
these bears exist. And so we got a little bit
jealous about it. And I used to tease and say.
You know, my elder said those bears weren't smart
enough to be black. You know, they're not iconic.
They're just not smart enough to be black. But
it drew people. It became British Columbia's
animal. It was our symbol for animal was the
great bear. And the marketing. of the great bear
rainforest is really what gave it its place name
and brought that international notoriety and
so yeah there's grizzly bears which are brown
bears they're big and they're iconic and they
really do what they do because they're big and
they're the alpha they're the top of the food
chain but these other bears and species kind
of all fit within there and there's such a willingness
around the world for people to learn about them
now that even myself i get quite anxious and
ambitious about the fact that people want to
come see not only the bears but the people who
coexisted with these bears and so there's a lot
of interest in indigenous ecotourism that really
does some storytelling that again we're trying
to figure out how to stay culturally appropriate
but also be able to you know turn some marketable
opportunities around there. It not only helps
from the lodge and the employment point of view,
but some of our young artisans are able to, you
know, help supply some of our gift shops and
some of those things. So there's such a little
trickle -down effect that we're trying to figure
out how to realize as efficiently as we can on
the coast. For people like me who want to visit,
want a book, where do we go to find more information?
So I do got to say, Night Inlet Grizzly Tours,
we go on the search engine, Night Inlet Grizzly
Tours is our operation. You know, it's a 35 minute
float plane ride from Campbell River. And then
you have an all inclusive experience that we
put out. We have a floating lodge in the middle
of one of our estuaries. And so we have 11 different.
Wildlife viewing opportunities that have you
seeing everything from seals to eagles to bears,
whales. There's a marine tour that goes with
it. And then Haida House on Queen Charlotte Islands,
Haida Gwaii, as it's been renamed thanks to the
perseverance of the Haida Nation. They own a
couple ecotourism opportunities within their
territories. And then there's Spirit Bear Lodge
in Clem 2. Again, where you can go see these
beautiful... modi bears that exist in these areas.
So those are three of the more iconic mainstream
opportunities that we have. And now other nations
are trying to find out how they can fit within
that. We call it the golden triangle. So when
Europeans come to Canada or the West coast specifically,
they want to go on an Alaskan cruise. They want
to see the Rockies and they want to go see grizzly
bears. And so we call it the golden triangle
for our. planning purposes. And we're trying
to figure out how to fill in some gaps that exist
in there because people come over for five, six
weeks at a time and they do their three booked
mainstay kind of draws that they come through.
But then there's little cities like Bella Bella,
there's Port Hardy, there's Alert Bay. And so
there's little places where we're trying to add
some value added tourism that complete the experience
for our guests. Bella Bella was in the news this
past summer, wasn't it? I think Elon Musk and
some others. Yes. Visited. Dallas, we haven't
spoken about your other day job, which is president
and chair of Nanwakalas Council. Tell us a bit
about that council. Yeah, thank you. Nanwakalas
is a Kwak 'wala word for a place we go to find
agreement. It's a little bit prophetic, really,
within our language. In the years of slugging
it out with the environmentalists and all the
different stakeholder groups, we were trying
to do spatial planning. And our First Nations
were gathering under tribal councils. Tribal
councils are a construct of the Indian Act. The
Department of Indian Affairs manages our regional
organizations and they provide some funding.
But even funding that they didn't provide had
to be spent and accounted for on a fiscal year
by fiscal year basis. And so when our audits
would show that we had leftover dollars, it would
get taken out of next year's opportunity for
funding. And so the chiefs told us to go build
an organization that was an arm's length from
government that didn't have that overreaching
from Ottawa that gave us the ability to do spatial
planning. To do that kind of planning from the
grassroots up towards the political level took
a couple of years. And so we kept tripping. Couldn't
get it done in a year. And then we try to get
the next funding and try to get it done in a
year again. And so we spent about four years
just working frantically, trying to get something
done that we couldn't get done. And so the chiefs
asked me to go when they, the actual way they
put it was go build us a boat that can fish in
provincial waters, federal waters, but it's ours.
And so they asked us to build Namakoa's council
and a group of 10 nations came together to form
us back in. 2007 is when we first incorporated
as the Great Bear Rainforest was starting to
wrap up. We were getting close to finalizing
our negotiations with the stakeholders, and then
we were going to go into government -to -government
negotiations. And so we built Namakolas to do
those government -to -government negotiations
and start to bring some economic opportunity
that wasn't going to be interfered with by the
Department of Indian Affairs. There's a similar
organization to ours called Coastal First Nations
of the Great Bear Initiative. They're the farther
up the coast. And so we represent the North Island
and adjacent mainland. And as you go farther
up the coast, Central Coast First Nations is
an entity that's similar to Nummo Coles that
works with the nations there. So they're a group
of nations, we're a group of nations, and we
work together trying to develop policy and different
things. Nummo Coles has found some success in
working with the provincial government on crown
land referrals. one of the challenges we had
as we were going through the planning process
was ground land is never just stagnant it's always
being used for different opportunities there's
There's tree farm licenses, there's different
kind of temporary development opportunities that
different companies hold opportunity and hold
the cards to use. And so we started working with
the province on the management of Crownland,
which started to give us some jurisdiction outside
of our reserves. Those actual small little postage
stamp reserves that we have in British Columbia,
we started to be able to actually talk about
our territories as a whole. And Nummicoles was
instrumental in helping us just be able to manage
outside. of our reserves. And so it's been a
tremendous organization. Our membership's gone
up and down as it goes. We're sort of a buffet.
Our organization doesn't have any rights or title.
We simply work with the nations who do. And so
from time to time, a chief will come in and say,
we think we can do better on our own or we're
going to go do this for a while. And so we just
work with those who are willing to work with
us and we give core support. So some of our nations
vary in capacity from 400 members to 1500 members.
And so they have various levels of capacity.
Namakos has a bunch of foresters. We've got marine
biologists. We've got mappers. And so we've got
general capacity that those nations can use at
their comfort level and their need level to help
them develop their own internal plans. But once
those plans were developed, we realized that
if we wanted to change policy, we had to do it
in group chunks. We couldn't on a territory -by
-territory defined policy because we had shared
territories, overlaps, if you will, as some people
like to put them. So Numicals has really been
there as a place to find agreement on how we
go forward with a lot of these initiatives. And
we've been able to work with the last... three
or four successive governments, both in Canada
and British Columbia, on staying at the front
end of helping develop policy that takes UNDRIP
and all these other catchwords that we use to
work with Indigenous peoples. And we're actually
trying to build some sustainable policy around
it. Love to see First Nations working together
and leveraging and cooperating. That's fantastic.
Maybe last question. What are you doing in your
spare time these days, Dallas, when you're not
watching Bears and Eagles? I'm wondering if my
wife's going to catch on to this. My wife doesn't
follow my career as closely as she used to since
we've had three children. But I like to golf.
I lost my leg in a motorcycle accident when I
was 18 years old. I'd played soccer and hockey
and done all the sort of things that Canadian
kids do. And I needed something physical, you
know, as I was recovering from my injuries, I
had to deal with some, you know, medication issues
as I was coming out of that. And I just needed
something to do. And so someone recommended my
father and I start playing golf together. And
we're under the hereditary system in my community.
So it was really beneficial. We started spending
a lot of time playing golf together. The hereditary
system. What do you mean by that? The hereditary
system. So right now, most of our communities
go under, we're all under the Indian Act, but
most of them have elections every two to four
years, depending on the ban code that you have
and what you've been able to negotiate. My nation,
because we've been chased out of our homeland,
our people are sort of nomadic right now. So
there's a few nations, specifically within British
Columbia, that are under what's called the custom
system. So my father has been chief since 1982
of our community. Um, and so we've, over the
last year and a half, we've been working on a
transition process where I'm slowly, you know,
learning more than just the Great Bear Rainforest,
learning about the social side, the education
side. And so, you know, we're, we're working
together to try to transition what our leadership's
going to look like going forward. And golf ended
up being a powerful tool for us because we'd
spend five hours playing around the golf where
I'd talk about, okay, well, you know, you're
going to learn to hit your wedge like this, or,
you know, when you're putting, think about this.
And he's like, well, you know, when you're talking
about the tree. You got to learn this and this
watershed flows there because of this reason.
And so there's an epistemology that was happening
between us that we didn't realize till years
later that, wow, all that time we spent on the
golf course, sometimes arguing, was very beneficial
to us. So golf's just one of those great games
that brings people together. And it was something
that I found to just help fill some of my energies
and time as I was dealing with the trauma of
the leg injuries that I sustained. Wow. What
a great conversation. This is, you know, as we're
starting to bring more awareness to different
First Nations issues, it's amazing how many different
audiences there are that want to be part of the
discussion. When I first got your guys' first
email, it was kind of like, is this a spam thing?
What's this Indigenous connection to the United
Kingdom from? And then I talked to one of our
mutual friends, Stuart Muir and Stu McNish, and
some of these guys are like, no, you got to go
do it. You know, you're talking about. wanting
people to buy into what First Nations people
are doing. And this is how you do it. You share
stories and share some time together. So I really
appreciate the opportunity to join you guys.
And as I have my own podcast called Res Dog Walkers
on all the normal platforms, hopefully you guys
can come on and we can continue this discussion
a little bit because this has been very amazing
for me. Yeah, no, we'd love to do that, Dallas.
Thanks for spending a bit of time with us and
love learning all about. That most beautiful
part of the world, the west coast of Canada.
Well, I appreciate the opportunity, and maybe
we'll meet halfway, and we'll meet in your territory.
I've always been looking for a reason to get
back to Akwesasne. Well, we want you over in
London, Dallas. Well, it's on the way. I can
fly to Montreal. We can do an episode of Montreal.
We can do a three -parter, and this will be good.
Exactly. That would be great. Trilogy. There
we go. This will be the next great trilogy. Yes.
I was golfing in Kahnawake just a couple of days
ago. Awesome. Thanks, gentlemen. Appreciate the
time. Great. All right. Thank you to Dallas Smith
for sharing his insights with us. And thank you
for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars
for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on
the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe,
and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel.
Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next
time.