WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.710 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.990 --> 00:00:15.449 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Rob Brant and 00:00:15.449 --> 00:00:18.250 I are joined today by Dallas Smith, President 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:20.829 of Nanwakola's Council and the Board Chair for 00:00:20.829 --> 00:00:24.429 Coast Funds. In this Drumbeats episode, we discuss 00:00:24.429 --> 00:00:27.309 his background and the impact of Coast Funds 00:00:27.309 --> 00:00:30.489 on the Great Bear Rainforest. Coast Funds, an 00:00:30.489 --> 00:00:33.350 endowment of nearly half a billion dollars, was 00:00:33.350 --> 00:00:35.770 created to support conservation and economic 00:00:35.770 --> 00:00:38.530 development in the Great Bear Rainforest, protecting 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:42.350 3 .1 million hectares and generating over $100 00:00:42.350 --> 00:00:46.229 million for economic development. Smith highlighted 00:00:46.229 --> 00:00:48.810 the importance of Indigenous involvement in conservation 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:52.390 financing, and we also discussed the potential 00:00:52.390 --> 00:00:54.530 for free trade amongst Indigenous communities 00:00:54.530 --> 00:00:58.210 worldwide. He also touched more deeply on the 00:00:58.210 --> 00:01:00.979 role of tourism, particularly wildlife viewing 00:01:00.979 --> 00:01:04.000 in supporting local economies and the challenges 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:09.280 of balancing development with conservation. Dallas 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:14.439 Smith, President, Chair of Nanwakalas Council, 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:20.299 also Chair of Coast Funds, and wearing some other 00:01:20.299 --> 00:01:23.239 hats, literally and figuratively. Thanks for 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:26.560 taking the time to join us on Drumbeats. Oh, 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:29.250 happy to be here. Thanks for having me. And my 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:34.430 hat. Pleasure to have you. Yes. And the hat collection 00:01:34.430 --> 00:01:37.909 is distinctive. As we talked earlier before the 00:01:37.909 --> 00:01:40.030 program, it used to be an element of style for 00:01:40.030 --> 00:01:42.670 just about every man. So you're maintaining the 00:01:42.670 --> 00:01:45.090 standards for the rest of us. So thank you for 00:01:45.090 --> 00:01:46.769 that. I can't wait to get outside and get on 00:01:46.769 --> 00:01:51.890 my hat and look the part. There we go. Great 00:01:51.890 --> 00:01:54.670 to have you with us, as Rob said, Dallas. Just 00:01:54.670 --> 00:01:57.920 to come into the session a little bit now. So 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.219 Dallas, you have roots from all four corners 00:02:00.219 --> 00:02:03.840 of the Kwakwala speaking peoples. How has this 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.019 broad cultural foundation shaped your approach 00:02:06.019 --> 00:02:08.360 to business and leadership? And why don't you 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:12.639 talk a little bit about your background and just 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.379 introduce to our audience over here in the UK 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:18.560 and beyond? Yeah, no, again, thanks for having 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.860 me. It's always nice to be able to share some 00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:23.539 perspective and to be able to share some Indigenous 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:25.919 perspective in the United Kingdom, something 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.000 that I couldn't pass up. But yeah, my name is 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:31.699 Dallas Smith. I grew up actually in the lower 00:02:31.699 --> 00:02:35.060 mainland of Vancouver. My parents come from remote 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:37.159 First Nations communities on the north end of 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.159 Vancouver Island, and they didn't want me to 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.120 go to school in the North Island because the 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.439 school system had some challenges in those days. 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:49.139 There was still quite a bit of racism and still 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:51.259 some other social challenges that the communities 00:02:51.259 --> 00:02:54.780 were facing. They decided when they found out 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:56.439 they were having me that we were going to go 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.639 suburban. And so I had the luxury of both worlds. 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.120 I kind of grew up in suburban Vancouver. But 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.060 would go home three, four times a year for various 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:09.780 cultural events. And then as I got a little bit 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:12.699 older, I would go home to go fishing every summer 00:03:12.699 --> 00:03:16.159 with my uncles and different things. So I kind 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:17.780 of like to say I got the best of both worlds. 00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:20.539 I got a very solid kindergarten to grade 12 education. 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:23.000 Grade 12 might have taken two times, but we don't 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.259 need to talk about that too much. But yeah, so 00:03:26.259 --> 00:03:29.120 like I said, I got to learn the perspective of 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.780 being kind of an urban. First Nations kid, but 00:03:32.780 --> 00:03:36.699 also, you know, got enough cultural support and 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:39.639 background to grow up knowing who I was and where 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.639 I came from and being able to be very proud of 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:45.120 that, which was somewhat a bit of a challenge 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.080 in, you know, the late 70s, early 80s when I 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:51.139 was growing up and really still is today, just 00:03:51.139 --> 00:03:53.340 with the rural -urban divide that exists and 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.300 First Nations really get caught up in that. But 00:03:55.300 --> 00:03:59.180 I'm happy to be here. Well, great to have you. 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.870 And as Rob's a golfer and I'm a... I'm a fisherman. 00:04:02.330 --> 00:04:04.530 You've kind of covered both the bases. So I'm 00:04:04.530 --> 00:04:06.870 sure we'll have a great conversation then. Rob. 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:10.710 There we go. Dallas, you're involved with some 00:04:10.710 --> 00:04:14.710 really, really interesting, impactful organizations. 00:04:15.849 --> 00:04:17.769 Why don't you just tell us first a little bit 00:04:17.769 --> 00:04:22.889 about Coast Funds? It's ironic I'm here actually 00:04:22.889 --> 00:04:25.550 for a celebration on Coast Funds that we're having 00:04:25.550 --> 00:04:27.329 over the next couple of days here in Vancouver 00:04:27.329 --> 00:04:31.319 right now. Coast Funds was an endowment that 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.279 was brought together to make the Great Bear Rainforest 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:39.500 work from a First Nations point of view. For 00:04:39.500 --> 00:04:41.759 years, we were involved at a planning table and 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.639 we watched the environmentalists and the forest 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.939 companies fight over our backyards, really. You 00:04:46.939 --> 00:04:50.240 know, there was a big boycott on BC wood products 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:53.300 in Europe at the time, kind of mid -90s. It was 00:04:53.300 --> 00:04:55.920 called the War in the Woods. And the environmentalists 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.139 were getting so sophisticated that they went 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:01.480 to Europe where so much BC pulp and paper was 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.560 used in the magazine industry. And I had learned 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:06.920 that, you know, most of the magazines throughout 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.339 Europe and North America were printed in Germany. 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:12.560 And so there is a real big focus on BC wood products 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.100 in Germany. And the government of British Columbia 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:17.660 had to weigh in and start, you know, bringing 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:20.819 some remedies to the situations around clear 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:22.740 -cut logging and some of those things that were 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:25.639 happening in British Columbia. And so First Nations 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:28.800 were invited to join this planning table that 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:32.779 was called the Central Coast LRMP, Land and Resource 00:05:32.779 --> 00:05:35.100 Management Plan, just for those who hate acronyms 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:38.300 as much as I do. And it was a planning process 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:41.199 that brought together all the stakeholders. And 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.399 the First Nations at the time were just trying 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:45.680 to really find their stride on where we fit within 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:48.160 the world. We knew we had jurisdiction over our 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.279 reserves, but we had these vast traditional territories 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.910 that we really didn't have much input on. And 00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:56.029 so the chiefs of the day decided that we better 00:05:56.029 --> 00:05:58.930 join this process. But we told the government 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:01.490 of British Columbia that we'd only join if they 00:06:01.490 --> 00:06:04.970 recognized us as a government. And so we coordinated 00:06:04.970 --> 00:06:07.089 ourselves and got together and we went through 00:06:07.089 --> 00:06:08.709 a terms of reference and got into this planning 00:06:08.709 --> 00:06:11.589 process. But then we slugged it out for years 00:06:11.589 --> 00:06:14.430 with all the different stakeholder groups. And 00:06:14.430 --> 00:06:17.449 one of the challenges that we had was we weren't 00:06:17.449 --> 00:06:19.610 really involved in the forest industry directly 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.860 at that point in time. But we also didn't want 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:25.480 to see the opportunities lost through the development 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.860 of protected areas. And so one of the great chiefs 00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:30.860 in the North Coast, a chief named Percy Starr 00:06:30.860 --> 00:06:35.180 from the village of Clem II, challenged the environmentalists 00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:38.040 to make conservation pay for itself. How can 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.199 you make conservation become an economic driver 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:42.819 for our communities? And to the environmental 00:06:42.819 --> 00:06:45.199 activist's credit, they took him up on that challenge 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.720 and they created, well not created, they introduced 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:52.180 conservation financing to us. And so that was 00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:55.339 a way of where philanthropic dollars were being 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:59.699 raised to level against future protected areas. 00:07:00.019 --> 00:07:03.600 And so we protected 3 .1 million hectares throughout 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.500 the Great Bear Rainforest, roughly the size of 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:08.459 Ireland, I've been told, when we compare it to, 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:12.360 you know, different sizes. and categories but 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.639 there was 120 million dollar economic development 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.339 fund that was developed as a result of those 00:07:18.339 --> 00:07:22.019 negotiations and that's what coast fund was it 00:07:22.019 --> 00:07:25.439 was 60 million dollars of private philanthropic 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.220 dollars matched by 30 million from the province 00:07:28.220 --> 00:07:30.920 and 30 million by the federal government and 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.519 so out of that 120 million dollars 60 million 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:38.310 is a sinking fund where we've been spending spending 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:40.250 it down over the years. We thought it was going 00:07:40.250 --> 00:07:41.949 to take about eight years to spend it down, but 00:07:41.949 --> 00:07:44.149 it took about 15 to spend it down because of 00:07:44.149 --> 00:07:46.290 leveraging opportunities. But then the other 00:07:46.290 --> 00:07:48.649 60 million is in an endowment that we only live 00:07:48.649 --> 00:07:51.540 off the interest from. And so different First 00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:53.300 Nations have different projects and different 00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:56.160 priorities. And over the years, they pool their 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:59.240 earnings and take it out in various chunks of 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.560 money for various stewardship initiatives. And 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.560 so Coast Funds was something that was developed 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:08.480 by other people for First Nations, but over the 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.180 15 years since it's actually... 15, probably 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:13.439 18 years now since we've actually developed the 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.839 concept. It's a lot more First Nations -led now. 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:18.740 We actually have more First Nations people on 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:21.360 the board. We have strategic plans that are developed 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.199 in conjunction with First Nations communities. 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:26.779 But Coast Funds is the first placeholder for 00:08:26.779 --> 00:08:29.000 an economic development fund like that, which 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.600 later became what's called a project for permanence. 00:08:32.110 --> 00:08:33.809 And so there's different conservation initiatives 00:08:33.809 --> 00:08:36.009 throughout the world right now that include Indigenous 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:39.029 people. There's 11 of them being negotiated right 00:08:39.029 --> 00:08:40.629 now, and two of them were through the Great Bear 00:08:40.629 --> 00:08:43.409 Rainforest. One's on the terrestrial side, and 00:08:43.409 --> 00:08:45.710 the second one represents our marine interests. 00:08:46.129 --> 00:08:48.710 When we finished the terrestrial negotiations 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:51.110 and that 3 .1 million hectares of conservation 00:08:51.110 --> 00:08:53.330 land, etc., all the other things that came with 00:08:53.330 --> 00:08:55.769 it, our elders reminded us that we're coastal 00:08:55.769 --> 00:08:58.870 people. So to just do the terrestrial part left 00:08:58.870 --> 00:09:02.710 it unfinished. And so while we really enjoyed 00:09:02.710 --> 00:09:05.190 the opportunities we leveraged through the terrestrial 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:07.629 negotiations, we knew that it wasn't going to 00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:09.730 be complete until we completed a marine component. 00:09:10.549 --> 00:09:12.990 So after the terrestrial part was done, we buckled 00:09:12.990 --> 00:09:15.509 down and we did marine stewardship plans and 00:09:15.509 --> 00:09:18.970 marine operating plans, which have resulted in 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:21.789 a marine protected area strategy, which has brought 00:09:21.789 --> 00:09:25.490 in another chunk of philanthropic dollars, matched 00:09:25.490 --> 00:09:28.970 by $200 million by Prime Minister Trudeau a couple 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:32.289 of years at COP15, when Canada made its commitment 00:09:32.289 --> 00:09:36.529 to the 30 by 30 biodiversity. where they're going 00:09:36.529 --> 00:09:39.090 to protect 30 % of Canada's biodiversity. So 00:09:39.090 --> 00:09:41.350 we worked with the federal government in helping 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:44.129 them achieve some of those goals, and we simply 00:09:44.129 --> 00:09:47.049 added to the sinking fund that we have. So Coast 00:09:47.049 --> 00:09:51.210 Funds now manages over $435 million on behalf 00:09:51.210 --> 00:09:53.250 of First Nations groups up and down the coast 00:09:53.250 --> 00:09:54.950 of British Columbia and the Great Bear Rainforest. 00:09:57.209 --> 00:09:59.149 Wow. Can't believe how far we've gone until you 00:09:59.149 --> 00:10:01.529 actually spin it all out in kind of one long 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:05.149 line. Incredible. Explain just where we're talking 00:10:05.149 --> 00:10:08.610 about, Great Bear Rainforest. So the Great Bear 00:10:08.610 --> 00:10:11.149 Rainforest, and by the way, I... I couldn't stand 00:10:11.149 --> 00:10:13.450 the name when I was a young negotiator full of 00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:16.090 vinegar and the other stuff that matches with 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:19.470 vinegar when you're using those terms. But the 00:10:19.470 --> 00:10:23.590 Great Bear Rainforest extends from Comox on Vancouver 00:10:23.590 --> 00:10:27.590 Island and the adjacent mainland up to the Alaskan 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:29.809 border. So the bottom of the Alaskan panhandle 00:10:29.809 --> 00:10:32.830 where Prince Rupert is. um that's sort of the 00:10:32.830 --> 00:10:34.950 area that encompasses the great bear rainforest 00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:37.690 and so there's 26 different first nations who 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.570 are involved in the original terrestrial round 00:10:40.570 --> 00:10:44.929 and there's 17 involved in the newly formed marine 00:10:44.929 --> 00:10:48.490 component i think even today there'd be some 00:10:48.490 --> 00:10:50.970 canadians who don't realize there is a rainforest 00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:55.370 on the west coast definitely lost intact temperate 00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:58.090 rainforest in north america actually which was 00:10:58.090 --> 00:11:00.960 the reason why the environmentalists put so much 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.320 money and effort into the area because of the 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.200 connected biodiversity values that went from 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.120 one part of the coast to the top of the coast 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.840 and so while we do have a history of logging 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.019 we also have tremendous old growth forests that 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:18.120 house a bunch of flora and fauna and all the 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.399 animals and whatnot and there's a connectivity 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.360 issue that helped to make it possible so if you 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.500 actually look at the map there's different protected 00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:28.960 areas that come down the coast as we've worked 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:32.159 through the process. And again, you know, I think 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.460 it was, Ireland was kind of the European equivalent 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:38.059 of the size of area that we're talking. So pretty 00:11:38.059 --> 00:11:44.120 vast. And is the fund, so you're getting more, 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.659 you're managing more funds from First Nations, 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:49.700 different First Nations. Are you looking at what 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:52.700 is the future for Coast funds? Are you looking 00:11:52.700 --> 00:11:59.340 for more third party funding to do more? Definitely. 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.460 There's always a growth plan. You know, we find 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:05.360 out no matter how much money you have in management, 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.379 you always sort of need more if you're going 00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:09.779 to complement the visions of the communities 00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:11.799 that you're helping to work with and represent. 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:15.519 So the idea is to have functioning stewardship 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.460 offices for all the First Nations within the 00:12:18.460 --> 00:12:21.059 Great Bear Rainforest. And so that means having 00:12:21.059 --> 00:12:24.100 a set amount of funding each year that they can 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:27.370 actually plan around. In the early stages of 00:12:27.370 --> 00:12:29.570 stewardship visions and all those sorts of things, 00:12:29.669 --> 00:12:32.090 it was really part -time work because we could 00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:34.629 never get the funding to have someone work full 00:12:34.629 --> 00:12:36.850 -time in the stewardship of their territories. 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.710 And so Coast Fund's goal is to make sure that... 00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:43.179 We have that capacity year round. And so we're 00:12:43.179 --> 00:12:45.639 still working with different industries. The 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.059 cruise ship industry is one that's a notable 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:51.360 example that we're working with to say, OK, we've 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.220 made decisions on protection that help the viewscapes 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:58.580 of commercial cruise line traffic that's going 00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:01.320 through. And so we're asking them to invest in 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.159 the future that we're trying to develop in the 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:06.299 Great Bear Rainforest. There's some other seafood 00:13:06.299 --> 00:13:08.200 industries that we're still trying to get to 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:11.690 the table to you know, ante up and get into the 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:14.870 game a little bit. I think we all benefit from 00:13:14.870 --> 00:13:17.370 sustainable management of natural resources, 00:13:17.450 --> 00:13:20.149 but also keeping the ecological beauty that's 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:22.610 in place, the intact temperate rainforest, the 00:13:22.610 --> 00:13:25.450 marine scapes. And so we want people using our 00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:28.059 territories to become part of that. To become 00:13:28.059 --> 00:13:30.139 part of that, they have to invest in it. And 00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:32.200 it's not like the old days where it sounds like 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.039 a shakedown where we're sort of saying, pay the 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.580 toll or you're not coming through. It's just, 00:13:36.580 --> 00:13:38.820 let's complement the vision that has been developed 00:13:38.820 --> 00:13:40.799 over the years. And as people want to partake 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.440 in that, there's an accountability that we'd 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:45.039 like to have people at the table working with 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.179 us. Yes, I think Canada is a modern country. 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:51.740 We don't have shakedowns in Canada anymore. But 00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:54.200 our southern neighbor, I'm not sure about these 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.059 days. That's been an interesting side of it. 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:00.779 As we develop the 3 .1 million hectares of protected 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:03.519 area, there's still operating areas that a lot 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.620 of our communities depend on. We're still loggers 00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:07.080 at the end of the day. We're still fishermen 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:11.259 by trade at the end of the day. And having ourselves 00:14:11.259 --> 00:14:13.980 caught in the global awareness of tariff issues 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.419 has been a bit of an eye -opener for us now that 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:18.940 we finally own forest tenure and we're developing 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:21.159 these resources and part of the actual equity. 00:14:21.850 --> 00:14:25.850 of these businesses, getting hit by 35 % tariffs 00:14:25.850 --> 00:14:27.870 and duties is something that we've just never 00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:30.450 fathomed before. So it's an interesting time 00:14:30.450 --> 00:14:33.190 for us trying to learn how to work with not only 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:35.049 our nations and the forest companies that we're 00:14:35.049 --> 00:14:37.289 working with, but we're also talking to different 00:14:37.289 --> 00:14:39.830 Indigenous groups in the United States and around 00:14:39.830 --> 00:14:42.450 the world about exploring free trade opportunities, 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:44.750 Indigenous community to Indigenous community 00:14:44.750 --> 00:14:47.370 free trade opportunities. And so that's one of 00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:49.649 the tools we're working on right now to try and 00:14:49.649 --> 00:14:52.450 mitigate the impacts of softwood lumber and the 00:14:52.450 --> 00:14:54.269 countervailing duties that have been imposed 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:57.330 by President Trump over the last couple of months. 00:14:57.769 --> 00:15:00.470 Just coming back to, you mentioned earlier in 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:03.970 your career, Europe was the destination for paper, 00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:07.009 particularly in Germany for the publishing houses. 00:15:07.149 --> 00:15:12.629 Is that still a viable market? Is BC still active? 00:15:14.990 --> 00:15:17.769 BC doesn't send as much over anymore just because 00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:20.690 of the digital age now. People aren't buying 00:15:20.690 --> 00:15:23.450 National Enquirer and all the tabloids and all 00:15:23.450 --> 00:15:25.649 the other magazines that our wood products were 00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:28.210 used for. But we are trying to diversify our 00:15:28.210 --> 00:15:31.909 markets around the world. And Europe still is 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:34.269 a trading partner with us for some of our forest 00:15:34.269 --> 00:15:37.870 resources. But we're also in competition with 00:15:37.870 --> 00:15:40.230 Finland and Russia and other places that have 00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:44.429 some vast fiber opportunities. So that's an interesting. 00:15:44.590 --> 00:15:46.409 side of the game that, you know, a real remote 00:15:46.409 --> 00:15:49.669 First Nations community of 200 people don't realize 00:15:49.669 --> 00:15:51.750 where they fit in the global stage on some of 00:15:51.750 --> 00:15:54.129 these issues right now. So it's a bit of an awakening 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:57.730 for some of our communities, for sure. And the 00:15:57.730 --> 00:16:01.769 idea of free trade between Indigenous peoples, 00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:04.629 that there is a, it's not a free trade agreement, 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:08.570 but a memorandum between, signed by Canada, I 00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:12.049 think New Zealand, for maybe even the US and 00:16:12.049 --> 00:16:16.230 Australia. Is it to look at ways for indigenous 00:16:16.230 --> 00:16:21.470 people to cooperate and trade more? Is there 00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:25.169 an angle, you think, to actually achieve free 00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:29.309 trade across some of those borders? You know, 00:16:29.389 --> 00:16:32.809 in theory, it's doable. We have the J -Trading 00:16:32.809 --> 00:16:35.230 in the United States, which gives us nation -to 00:16:35.230 --> 00:16:38.580 -nation trade across the border for... more traditional 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:41.460 goods that, you know, we've used across the border. 00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:44.080 Again, you know, the 49th parallel crosses so 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.179 many Indigenous communities. There's so many 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:48.879 Indigenous communities that span that 49th parallel. 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.799 And so the Jay Treaty was really about acknowledging 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:54.639 the right of those communities to trade back 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:57.139 and forth. But we think that there's opportunities 00:16:57.139 --> 00:16:59.360 within there that we're preparing to explore 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.600 right now. We're talking to a number of nations 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.000 along the Columbia River, between Washington 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.759 State and Oregon State. We're talking to a couple 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.180 nations in the Southwest around opportunities 00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:15.299 to start trading lumber into the communities. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.539 And we're really sort of interested and curious 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.160 on how either government's going to react. It's 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:22.900 one of those things like, oh, you crazy Indians, 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.099 you crazy First Nations, here you go plotting 00:17:25.099 --> 00:17:26.779 and scheming about things you're going to do. 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.119 And we're trying to figure out, you know, what 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:31.839 is the best way to start the discussion? Do we 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:35.880 send? 50 ,000 trillion board feet across on a 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.380 container barge? Do we send one truckload hoping 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:40.460 that that's all that's going to be confiscated? 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:42.900 So we're in the fun time of trying to figure 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:44.880 out how we can do it. We've sort of built a bit 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.599 of a process and we've got a bit of a roadmap. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.339 Now someone's actually got to mechanize it and 00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:53.210 do the first run. I don't want to say across 00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:54.730 the border because that really makes it sound 00:17:54.730 --> 00:17:57.170 like we're doing something sketchy, but who's 00:17:57.170 --> 00:17:58.829 going to be the first one who actually opens 00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:02.470 up a viable trade opportunity? So it's good to 00:18:02.470 --> 00:18:04.210 try to find solutions to problems that other 00:18:04.210 --> 00:18:08.089 people create. Yeah, well, as a Mohawk, I'm keenly 00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:12.890 aware of those cross -border issues in the Jay 00:18:12.890 --> 00:18:15.230 Treaty, which just to give a bit of background 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:18.089 was a treaty signed between the US and the British. 00:18:18.890 --> 00:18:22.410 government back in the late 1700s following the 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:24.990 American Revolution, and there were still some 00:18:24.990 --> 00:18:29.789 loose ends to tie up. So in the late 20 years 00:18:29.789 --> 00:18:32.710 after the war had ended, they signed this treaty 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:37.069 to help clarify some border issues and some other 00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:40.109 trade issues. And among that, within that treaty, 00:18:40.309 --> 00:18:43.569 there's a clause about Indigenous peoples and 00:18:43.569 --> 00:18:50.349 their ability to work and trade across the border. 00:18:50.950 --> 00:18:54.430 And the U .S. government did ratify it and enacted 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:58.809 into law. You can look on the U .S. State Department's 00:18:58.809 --> 00:19:01.650 website today and it'll describe what you have 00:19:01.650 --> 00:19:05.250 to do to be able to take advantage of those provisions 00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:08.589 when you come into the U .S. Canadian government 00:19:08.589 --> 00:19:13.640 never did ratify it or enact it into law. And 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.819 so there's a question about enforceability on 00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:22.119 this side of the border. But yeah, that's a really 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.660 interesting. Growing up on the border in White 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:28.019 Rock in suburban Vancouver, it was really about 00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:30.680 getting cheaper milk and eggs than we could go 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:34.039 across the line back in the 80s. But yeah, no, 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:37.230 it's interesting to take. you know, colonial 00:19:37.230 --> 00:19:39.789 constructs such as different treaties that weren't 00:19:39.789 --> 00:19:42.450 signed really by any of our nations, but, you 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:46.349 know, using loopholes or using opportunities 00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:49.789 that exist within them to try further a jurisdictional 00:19:49.789 --> 00:19:53.190 discussion that's really a lot more prevalent 00:19:53.190 --> 00:19:56.049 than people think, you know, dealing with some 00:19:56.049 --> 00:19:58.450 of these issues in Canada. We're finally starting 00:19:58.450 --> 00:20:00.690 to talk to, you know, some of the Mohawks and 00:20:00.690 --> 00:20:03.349 talk to other people across Canada about, okay, 00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:05.630 we're all facing similar problems. How can we 00:20:05.630 --> 00:20:08.089 band together a little bit? And that's something 00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:09.869 we're really hoping to put some pressure on the 00:20:09.869 --> 00:20:11.990 Assembly of First Nations to start looking at 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:15.190 outside of the box thinking. Too long as First 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:17.130 Nations people, people put these boxes around 00:20:17.130 --> 00:20:18.990 us and we've just stayed within them because 00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.109 we're very polite. We're very, you know, peaceful 00:20:22.109 --> 00:20:25.049 people. But we've got to learn to start looking 00:20:25.049 --> 00:20:27.460 outside of the box a little bit. is one of the 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:29.500 things around trade that we think we're going 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.240 to not only get some attention to the issues 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.319 that are there, but hopefully some solutions. 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.019 Yes. And I think that's one of the, that Canada 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.319 has to be doing now as well. Thinking outside 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.180 the box, how do we realize the full potential 00:20:44.180 --> 00:20:48.920 of Canada that's built on the foundation of the 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.339 Indigenous people? And how do we chart a new 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:54.059 path where all Canadians, Indigenous and non 00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:56.759 -Indigenous, can live together and succeed and 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:01.319 grow a society that delivers for everybody in 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.720 the country, as well as also as a bit of a beacon 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:05.740 for the world to say this is how to get things 00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:09.740 done and how to create a great country that appeals 00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:12.980 to all and newcomers as well. So that will be 00:21:12.980 --> 00:21:15.839 interesting. And of course, treaties have been 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.640 used for such a long time to hold back the potential 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.150 of the Indigenous people. It's good you're finally 00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:24.009 at this spot. Well, how do we leverage some of 00:21:24.009 --> 00:21:26.410 these? And I'm sure the Canadian government would 00:21:26.410 --> 00:21:28.910 love it if you're able to be shipping a bunch 00:21:28.910 --> 00:21:32.250 of stuff across the border for lumber. I think 00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:34.529 there's more cheerleaders for us than we originally 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:36.509 thought when we started the concept. I mean, 00:21:36.529 --> 00:21:38.009 there's not many who are saying, yeah, I'll jump 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:40.150 in the truck with you. But there's a few saying, 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:41.609 yeah, you should try that. That's a good idea. 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:45.349 Not many. Yeah, I wouldn't volunteer to jump 00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:48.369 in that truck either. Thankfully, I don't have 00:21:48.369 --> 00:21:50.930 an air brakes license, so it won't be me. Solves 00:21:50.930 --> 00:21:55.170 that problem too. Great. Dallas, he touched on 00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:59.049 some of the tourism initiatives, but it's such 00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:02.140 a beautiful part. of the world that we've been 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:06.579 talking about. What else is going on up there 00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:10.059 that you're looking at generating? Tourism is 00:22:10.059 --> 00:22:11.400 an interesting one. It's something that's always 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.380 been dangled in front of us. When people are 00:22:14.380 --> 00:22:16.799 trying to stop us from developing natural resources, 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.920 tourism is the first thing that sort of gets 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.900 thrown. I won't say in our face in that sort 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:23.759 of fashion, but it's something that gets dangled 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.019 in front of us. Tourism is such a subjective 00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:30.920 term that we're really trying to figure out how 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.180 we fit within that within the Great Bear Rainforest. 00:22:33.869 --> 00:22:36.049 Some of us have gotten into wildlife viewing, 00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:39.250 understanding that while we may take for granted 00:22:39.250 --> 00:22:41.670 growing up within the Great Bear Rainforest and 00:22:41.670 --> 00:22:43.789 all the animal species that are a part of it, 00:22:43.809 --> 00:22:47.069 how iconic they all are, we forget how much of 00:22:47.069 --> 00:22:49.970 a taste and a flavor this is for other parts 00:22:49.970 --> 00:22:54.690 of the world. And so in 2017, Namakola's Council, 00:22:54.890 --> 00:22:58.049 the organization that's my day job, we acquired 00:22:58.049 --> 00:23:00.049 a business called Night Inlet Grizzly Tours. 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.880 And so we run a remote grizzly bear viewing operation 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.539 in the middle of Knights Inlet. And this is one 00:23:07.539 --> 00:23:09.279 of the great things about doing your guys' podcast 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.119 is 90 % of our clientele is from outside of North 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.200 America. It's people who want to come see a grizzly 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.140 bear. They want to see a spirit bear. They want 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:21.920 to see whales. They want to see eagles. And there's 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.900 a real opportunity for us to braid in or weave 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:28.000 in, if you will, some traditional ecological 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:32.400 knowledge within the actual... you know, wildlife 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.059 experience. And so we can talk about our relationship 00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:37.440 with some of these animals and how we've managed 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.140 to coexist with them for 10 ,000, 12 ,000 years 00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:43.940 as we're starting to find out in some of these 00:23:43.940 --> 00:23:46.900 areas. And so that's been an eye opener for us 00:23:46.900 --> 00:23:50.319 on just how much opportunity there is in tourism. 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:52.839 And so we're really looking at what are some 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:54.740 of the infrastructure needs that we have because 00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:57.559 we are in remote communities. I'm in the southern 00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:59.740 part of the Great Bear Rainforest where everything's 00:23:59.740 --> 00:24:02.539 a 35 -minute flight from Vancouver. So we have 00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:04.900 a few more opportunities than others to draw 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:07.859 people in. But there's other areas within the 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.779 remote part of the Great Bear Rainforest that 00:24:09.779 --> 00:24:12.619 you can only get to by seaplane or by boat. And 00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:15.299 so we're really trying to have a bigger ticket 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:17.559 regional discussion on what kind of infrastructure 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.140 do we need. to draw in enough tourism to invest 00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:24.019 in opportunities like that, but not to turn into 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:28.660 Whistler or other iconic places where you just 00:24:28.660 --> 00:24:30.920 have so much foot traffic that it eventually 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.799 starts to degrade the actual ecological natural 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.920 experience. So we're at a bit of a crossroads 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:39.339 on how much do we want to develop for tourism 00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:41.859 and how much do we just want to build some subtle 00:24:41.859 --> 00:24:43.940 infrastructure that helps us promote tourism. 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:46.400 And different nations are taking some different 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:47.880 approaches that we're starting to share with 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.470 each other. Well, in the interest of promoting 00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:53.150 this a little bit, can you explain to certainly 00:24:53.150 --> 00:24:55.910 me the difference between a great bear and a 00:24:55.910 --> 00:25:00.789 spirit bear? So it's really, I mean, go back 00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:02.650 to, you know, why I didn't like the name the 00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:06.930 great bear rainforest is the Komodi bear, the 00:25:06.930 --> 00:25:08.730 spirit bear, if you will, it's a white bear. 00:25:08.829 --> 00:25:10.869 So it's a black bear that has recessive genes. 00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:13.859 It's an albino black bear. And it only occurs 00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:15.839 in certain parts of the Great Bear Rainforest. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.059 They don't have them in my part. In the southern 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.839 parts of the Great Bear Rainforest, they don't 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:24.019 exist. But up in Clem 2 and Hartley Bay and some 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:25.779 of those areas a little bit farther up the coast, 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.400 these bears exist. And so we got a little bit 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.359 jealous about it. And I used to tease and say. 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:32.400 You know, my elder said those bears weren't smart 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.079 enough to be black. You know, they're not iconic. 00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:37.019 They're just not smart enough to be black. But 00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:39.920 it drew people. It became British Columbia's 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.960 animal. It was our symbol for animal was the 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.640 great bear. And the marketing. of the great bear 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.980 rainforest is really what gave it its place name 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:51.940 and brought that international notoriety and 00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:54.619 so yeah there's grizzly bears which are brown 00:25:54.619 --> 00:25:56.960 bears they're big and they're iconic and they 00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:59.680 really do what they do because they're big and 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.240 they're the alpha they're the top of the food 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.079 chain but these other bears and species kind 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.720 of all fit within there and there's such a willingness 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.920 around the world for people to learn about them 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:13.190 now that even myself i get quite anxious and 00:26:13.190 --> 00:26:15.509 ambitious about the fact that people want to 00:26:15.509 --> 00:26:18.190 come see not only the bears but the people who 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:20.690 coexisted with these bears and so there's a lot 00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:23.509 of interest in indigenous ecotourism that really 00:26:23.509 --> 00:26:26.789 does some storytelling that again we're trying 00:26:26.789 --> 00:26:28.549 to figure out how to stay culturally appropriate 00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:32.609 but also be able to you know turn some marketable 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:35.750 opportunities around there. It not only helps 00:26:35.750 --> 00:26:37.970 from the lodge and the employment point of view, 00:26:38.029 --> 00:26:41.269 but some of our young artisans are able to, you 00:26:41.269 --> 00:26:43.690 know, help supply some of our gift shops and 00:26:43.690 --> 00:26:45.049 some of those things. So there's such a little 00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:47.430 trickle -down effect that we're trying to figure 00:26:47.430 --> 00:26:50.069 out how to realize as efficiently as we can on 00:26:50.069 --> 00:26:54.049 the coast. For people like me who want to visit, 00:26:54.089 --> 00:26:58.210 want a book, where do we go to find more information? 00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:02.230 So I do got to say, Night Inlet Grizzly Tours, 00:27:02.309 --> 00:27:05.670 we go on the search engine, Night Inlet Grizzly 00:27:05.670 --> 00:27:09.069 Tours is our operation. You know, it's a 35 minute 00:27:09.069 --> 00:27:12.630 float plane ride from Campbell River. And then 00:27:12.630 --> 00:27:15.150 you have an all inclusive experience that we 00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:18.349 put out. We have a floating lodge in the middle 00:27:18.349 --> 00:27:21.210 of one of our estuaries. And so we have 11 different. 00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:24.029 Wildlife viewing opportunities that have you 00:27:24.029 --> 00:27:27.809 seeing everything from seals to eagles to bears, 00:27:28.049 --> 00:27:30.309 whales. There's a marine tour that goes with 00:27:30.309 --> 00:27:34.890 it. And then Haida House on Queen Charlotte Islands, 00:27:35.029 --> 00:27:38.170 Haida Gwaii, as it's been renamed thanks to the 00:27:38.170 --> 00:27:41.569 perseverance of the Haida Nation. They own a 00:27:41.569 --> 00:27:43.890 couple ecotourism opportunities within their 00:27:43.890 --> 00:27:46.569 territories. And then there's Spirit Bear Lodge 00:27:46.569 --> 00:27:50.309 in Clem 2. Again, where you can go see these 00:27:50.309 --> 00:27:53.029 beautiful... modi bears that exist in these areas. 00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:55.490 So those are three of the more iconic mainstream 00:27:55.490 --> 00:27:59.170 opportunities that we have. And now other nations 00:27:59.170 --> 00:28:01.730 are trying to find out how they can fit within 00:28:01.730 --> 00:28:03.950 that. We call it the golden triangle. So when 00:28:03.950 --> 00:28:06.410 Europeans come to Canada or the West coast specifically, 00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:09.809 they want to go on an Alaskan cruise. They want 00:28:09.809 --> 00:28:12.809 to see the Rockies and they want to go see grizzly 00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:15.130 bears. And so we call it the golden triangle 00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:16.980 for our. planning purposes. And we're trying 00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:19.400 to figure out how to fill in some gaps that exist 00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.799 in there because people come over for five, six 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.880 weeks at a time and they do their three booked 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.819 mainstay kind of draws that they come through. 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.359 But then there's little cities like Bella Bella, 00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.160 there's Port Hardy, there's Alert Bay. And so 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.839 there's little places where we're trying to add 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.019 some value added tourism that complete the experience 00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:40.880 for our guests. Bella Bella was in the news this 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.000 past summer, wasn't it? I think Elon Musk and 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.079 some others. Yes. Visited. Dallas, we haven't 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.359 spoken about your other day job, which is president 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.779 and chair of Nanwakalas Council. Tell us a bit 00:28:57.779 --> 00:29:02.539 about that council. Yeah, thank you. Nanwakalas 00:29:02.539 --> 00:29:05.579 is a Kwak 'wala word for a place we go to find 00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.859 agreement. It's a little bit prophetic, really, 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:13.660 within our language. In the years of slugging 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:15.319 it out with the environmentalists and all the 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:18.180 different stakeholder groups, we were trying 00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:22.119 to do spatial planning. And our First Nations 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.339 were gathering under tribal councils. Tribal 00:29:25.339 --> 00:29:28.160 councils are a construct of the Indian Act. The 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.960 Department of Indian Affairs manages our regional 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.119 organizations and they provide some funding. 00:29:33.220 --> 00:29:36.019 But even funding that they didn't provide had 00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:38.240 to be spent and accounted for on a fiscal year 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.490 by fiscal year basis. And so when our audits 00:29:41.490 --> 00:29:43.990 would show that we had leftover dollars, it would 00:29:43.990 --> 00:29:47.329 get taken out of next year's opportunity for 00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:49.970 funding. And so the chiefs told us to go build 00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:53.049 an organization that was an arm's length from 00:29:53.049 --> 00:29:55.470 government that didn't have that overreaching 00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.970 from Ottawa that gave us the ability to do spatial 00:29:58.970 --> 00:30:01.910 planning. To do that kind of planning from the 00:30:01.910 --> 00:30:04.950 grassroots up towards the political level took 00:30:04.950 --> 00:30:07.700 a couple of years. And so we kept tripping. Couldn't 00:30:07.700 --> 00:30:10.059 get it done in a year. And then we try to get 00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:11.640 the next funding and try to get it done in a 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.680 year again. And so we spent about four years 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:16.240 just working frantically, trying to get something 00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:19.180 done that we couldn't get done. And so the chiefs 00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:21.720 asked me to go when they, the actual way they 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:24.000 put it was go build us a boat that can fish in 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.339 provincial waters, federal waters, but it's ours. 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:29.539 And so they asked us to build Namakoa's council 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:32.859 and a group of 10 nations came together to form 00:30:32.859 --> 00:30:37.000 us back in. 2007 is when we first incorporated 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.039 as the Great Bear Rainforest was starting to 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.180 wrap up. We were getting close to finalizing 00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:44.740 our negotiations with the stakeholders, and then 00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:46.420 we were going to go into government -to -government 00:30:46.420 --> 00:30:49.380 negotiations. And so we built Namakolas to do 00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:51.000 those government -to -government negotiations 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.720 and start to bring some economic opportunity 00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:56.000 that wasn't going to be interfered with by the 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.299 Department of Indian Affairs. There's a similar 00:30:58.299 --> 00:31:01.220 organization to ours called Coastal First Nations 00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:04.400 of the Great Bear Initiative. They're the farther 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:07.440 up the coast. And so we represent the North Island 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.920 and adjacent mainland. And as you go farther 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:13.059 up the coast, Central Coast First Nations is 00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:14.920 an entity that's similar to Nummo Coles that 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.259 works with the nations there. So they're a group 00:31:17.259 --> 00:31:19.039 of nations, we're a group of nations, and we 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.759 work together trying to develop policy and different 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.720 things. Nummo Coles has found some success in 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:26.619 working with the provincial government on crown 00:31:26.619 --> 00:31:29.319 land referrals. one of the challenges we had 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:30.839 as we were going through the planning process 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:34.099 was ground land is never just stagnant it's always 00:31:34.099 --> 00:31:36.140 being used for different opportunities there's 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.779 There's tree farm licenses, there's different 00:31:38.779 --> 00:31:41.819 kind of temporary development opportunities that 00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:44.500 different companies hold opportunity and hold 00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:47.500 the cards to use. And so we started working with 00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.240 the province on the management of Crownland, 00:31:49.539 --> 00:31:51.900 which started to give us some jurisdiction outside 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:55.019 of our reserves. Those actual small little postage 00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:57.099 stamp reserves that we have in British Columbia, 00:31:57.259 --> 00:31:58.859 we started to be able to actually talk about 00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.460 our territories as a whole. And Nummicoles was 00:32:01.460 --> 00:32:05.279 instrumental in helping us just be able to manage 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:08.140 outside. of our reserves. And so it's been a 00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:11.019 tremendous organization. Our membership's gone 00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:13.119 up and down as it goes. We're sort of a buffet. 00:32:14.019 --> 00:32:16.599 Our organization doesn't have any rights or title. 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.160 We simply work with the nations who do. And so 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:20.980 from time to time, a chief will come in and say, 00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:22.720 we think we can do better on our own or we're 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.039 going to go do this for a while. And so we just 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:26.660 work with those who are willing to work with 00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:30.380 us and we give core support. So some of our nations 00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:34.799 vary in capacity from 400 members to 1500 members. 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:36.420 And so they have various levels of capacity. 00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:39.589 Namakos has a bunch of foresters. We've got marine 00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:42.309 biologists. We've got mappers. And so we've got 00:32:42.309 --> 00:32:44.890 general capacity that those nations can use at 00:32:44.890 --> 00:32:48.049 their comfort level and their need level to help 00:32:48.049 --> 00:32:51.279 them develop their own internal plans. But once 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.279 those plans were developed, we realized that 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.259 if we wanted to change policy, we had to do it 00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:58.119 in group chunks. We couldn't on a territory -by 00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:00.819 -territory defined policy because we had shared 00:33:00.819 --> 00:33:03.559 territories, overlaps, if you will, as some people 00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:05.880 like to put them. So Numicals has really been 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.539 there as a place to find agreement on how we 00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:10.680 go forward with a lot of these initiatives. And 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.119 we've been able to work with the last... three 00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.579 or four successive governments, both in Canada 00:33:16.579 --> 00:33:19.619 and British Columbia, on staying at the front 00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:23.220 end of helping develop policy that takes UNDRIP 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:25.640 and all these other catchwords that we use to 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.779 work with Indigenous peoples. And we're actually 00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:29.839 trying to build some sustainable policy around 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:34.539 it. Love to see First Nations working together 00:33:34.539 --> 00:33:41.420 and leveraging and cooperating. That's fantastic. 00:33:42.549 --> 00:33:45.970 Maybe last question. What are you doing in your 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.210 spare time these days, Dallas, when you're not 00:33:48.210 --> 00:33:52.730 watching Bears and Eagles? I'm wondering if my 00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:54.529 wife's going to catch on to this. My wife doesn't 00:33:54.529 --> 00:33:56.470 follow my career as closely as she used to since 00:33:56.470 --> 00:33:59.329 we've had three children. But I like to golf. 00:34:00.029 --> 00:34:02.769 I lost my leg in a motorcycle accident when I 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:06.069 was 18 years old. I'd played soccer and hockey 00:34:06.069 --> 00:34:07.750 and done all the sort of things that Canadian 00:34:07.750 --> 00:34:11.079 kids do. And I needed something physical, you 00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:14.019 know, as I was recovering from my injuries, I 00:34:14.019 --> 00:34:16.360 had to deal with some, you know, medication issues 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.300 as I was coming out of that. And I just needed 00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:21.159 something to do. And so someone recommended my 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:23.900 father and I start playing golf together. And 00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:26.599 we're under the hereditary system in my community. 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.619 So it was really beneficial. We started spending 00:34:29.619 --> 00:34:33.000 a lot of time playing golf together. The hereditary 00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.869 system. What do you mean by that? The hereditary 00:34:35.869 --> 00:34:37.789 system. So right now, most of our communities 00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:41.030 go under, we're all under the Indian Act, but 00:34:41.030 --> 00:34:43.090 most of them have elections every two to four 00:34:43.090 --> 00:34:45.110 years, depending on the ban code that you have 00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:48.230 and what you've been able to negotiate. My nation, 00:34:48.329 --> 00:34:50.489 because we've been chased out of our homeland, 00:34:50.630 --> 00:34:53.349 our people are sort of nomadic right now. So 00:34:53.349 --> 00:34:55.409 there's a few nations, specifically within British 00:34:55.409 --> 00:34:57.210 Columbia, that are under what's called the custom 00:34:57.210 --> 00:35:00.090 system. So my father has been chief since 1982 00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:04.190 of our community. Um, and so we've, over the 00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:05.789 last year and a half, we've been working on a 00:35:05.789 --> 00:35:08.710 transition process where I'm slowly, you know, 00:35:08.710 --> 00:35:10.730 learning more than just the Great Bear Rainforest, 00:35:10.789 --> 00:35:12.429 learning about the social side, the education 00:35:12.429 --> 00:35:15.230 side. And so, you know, we're, we're working 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:17.630 together to try to transition what our leadership's 00:35:17.630 --> 00:35:19.969 going to look like going forward. And golf ended 00:35:19.969 --> 00:35:21.989 up being a powerful tool for us because we'd 00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.429 spend five hours playing around the golf where 00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:25.710 I'd talk about, okay, well, you know, you're 00:35:25.710 --> 00:35:27.929 going to learn to hit your wedge like this, or, 00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:29.610 you know, when you're putting, think about this. 00:35:29.650 --> 00:35:30.969 And he's like, well, you know, when you're talking 00:35:30.969 --> 00:35:33.059 about the tree. You got to learn this and this 00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:35.219 watershed flows there because of this reason. 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.500 And so there's an epistemology that was happening 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.920 between us that we didn't realize till years 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:42.380 later that, wow, all that time we spent on the 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:45.960 golf course, sometimes arguing, was very beneficial 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.159 to us. So golf's just one of those great games 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.639 that brings people together. And it was something 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.219 that I found to just help fill some of my energies 00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:55.840 and time as I was dealing with the trauma of 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.639 the leg injuries that I sustained. Wow. What 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:03.980 a great conversation. This is, you know, as we're 00:36:03.980 --> 00:36:05.920 starting to bring more awareness to different 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.980 First Nations issues, it's amazing how many different 00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:11.619 audiences there are that want to be part of the 00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.300 discussion. When I first got your guys' first 00:36:14.300 --> 00:36:16.380 email, it was kind of like, is this a spam thing? 00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:18.980 What's this Indigenous connection to the United 00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:21.480 Kingdom from? And then I talked to one of our 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.340 mutual friends, Stuart Muir and Stu McNish, and 00:36:24.340 --> 00:36:25.719 some of these guys are like, no, you got to go 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:28.909 do it. You know, you're talking about. wanting 00:36:28.909 --> 00:36:31.010 people to buy into what First Nations people 00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:33.630 are doing. And this is how you do it. You share 00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:36.429 stories and share some time together. So I really 00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:38.130 appreciate the opportunity to join you guys. 00:36:38.170 --> 00:36:41.469 And as I have my own podcast called Res Dog Walkers 00:36:41.469 --> 00:36:43.670 on all the normal platforms, hopefully you guys 00:36:43.670 --> 00:36:45.489 can come on and we can continue this discussion 00:36:45.489 --> 00:36:47.829 a little bit because this has been very amazing 00:36:47.829 --> 00:36:50.409 for me. Yeah, no, we'd love to do that, Dallas. 00:36:50.489 --> 00:36:53.289 Thanks for spending a bit of time with us and 00:36:53.289 --> 00:36:56.389 love learning all about. That most beautiful 00:36:56.389 --> 00:36:59.090 part of the world, the west coast of Canada. 00:36:59.949 --> 00:37:02.489 Well, I appreciate the opportunity, and maybe 00:37:02.489 --> 00:37:04.269 we'll meet halfway, and we'll meet in your territory. 00:37:04.329 --> 00:37:05.710 I've always been looking for a reason to get 00:37:05.710 --> 00:37:08.570 back to Akwesasne. Well, we want you over in 00:37:08.570 --> 00:37:10.929 London, Dallas. Well, it's on the way. I can 00:37:10.929 --> 00:37:12.809 fly to Montreal. We can do an episode of Montreal. 00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:14.469 We can do a three -parter, and this will be good. 00:37:14.570 --> 00:37:16.829 Exactly. That would be great. Trilogy. There 00:37:16.829 --> 00:37:19.170 we go. This will be the next great trilogy. Yes. 00:37:19.329 --> 00:37:21.989 I was golfing in Kahnawake just a couple of days 00:37:21.989 --> 00:37:25.960 ago. Awesome. Thanks, gentlemen. Appreciate the 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.659 time. Great. All right. Thank you to Dallas Smith 00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:33.239 for sharing his insights with us. And thank you 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.380 for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:39.300 for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:42.340 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:44.840 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:47.960 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:48.280 time.