WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.029 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.029 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.990 --> 00:00:15.410 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant 00:00:15.410 --> 00:00:17.489 and I are joined today again by Bern Christmas, 00:00:17.710 --> 00:00:19.989 KC, Principal at the Bern Christmas Law Group. 00:00:20.289 --> 00:00:23.550 The discussion today delves into the historical 00:00:23.550 --> 00:00:26.750 and legal significance of the Mi 'kmaq Nation's 00:00:26.750 --> 00:00:30.460 treaty rights. particularly the 1725 Peace and 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:33.100 Friendship Treaty with the British, which was 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:35.659 one of those treaties that British soon regret 00:00:35.659 --> 00:00:39.759 signing. It laid the basis for a challenge over 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:43.359 250 years later called the Marshall Decision, 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:46.740 where it reinforced the Mi 'kmaq's right to fish 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:50.020 commercially. The Supreme Court sided with the 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:53.060 Mi 'kmaq, leading to a 30 -day moratorium on 00:00:53.060 --> 00:00:55.350 fishing. and subsequent government recognition 00:00:55.350 --> 00:00:58.869 of their commercial fishing rights, changing 00:00:58.869 --> 00:01:03.770 fishing on the east coast of Canada. The conversation 00:01:03.770 --> 00:01:06.870 will also cover the Squamish Nation's 1 .5 billion 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:09.549 Sanok housing development in Vancouver, British 00:01:09.549 --> 00:01:13.650 Columbia. Can you just give some further background 00:01:13.650 --> 00:01:16.269 about the McMack and the Supreme Court decision 00:01:16.269 --> 00:01:18.409 that you referred to? Because I think it is a 00:01:18.409 --> 00:01:21.890 very important decision in Canadian history. 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.700 And I think our listeners would like to understand 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:32.659 that because that became a case for many in terms 00:01:32.659 --> 00:01:35.980 of relations. Yeah, so what happened with our 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:39.379 community, the Mi 'kmaq Nation, which is our 00:01:39.379 --> 00:01:43.319 traditional territories in what is called Atlantic 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:47.519 Canada, eastern part of Canada. There's Newfoundland, 00:01:47.859 --> 00:01:51.379 New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia. 00:01:52.030 --> 00:01:56.170 and the Gaspé Peninsula of Quebec, and then also 00:01:56.170 --> 00:02:00.909 into Maine, the state of Maine in the United 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:05.409 States. The interesting background for the historical 00:02:05.409 --> 00:02:11.229 buffs is that obviously in the 1600s, 1700s, 00:02:11.289 --> 00:02:14.069 you had the Hundred Year War and all those things 00:02:14.069 --> 00:02:20.110 going on between France and Britain, and amongst 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:25.340 other things. territories and skirmishes that 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:28.840 they were dealing with. And then, of course, 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:32.879 you had the United States, the beginning of the 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.219 early colonists and creating of those states 00:02:37.219 --> 00:02:40.199 in the early days of the United States and how 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:43.379 it then eventually became its own country. But 00:02:43.379 --> 00:02:49.120 during those days, the power between the British 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:57.000 And the French in North America was determined 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:04.300 mostly by being allied with my nation, the Mi 00:03:04.300 --> 00:03:08.199 'kmaq. And, you know, we swayed the power each 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.099 way. And the British, you know, I'm speeding 00:03:12.099 --> 00:03:13.979 up history a little bit here. Eventually, the 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:17.479 British and the Mi 'kmaq signed some treaties. 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:20.259 In fact, we signed a lot of treaties, but one 00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:24.400 in particular in the early 1700s. We signed where 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:32.039 we said that we would be at peace and be friends 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:38.319 and allies forevermore. And it was the only time 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:43.300 the British ever did that. Historians might argue 00:03:43.300 --> 00:03:45.699 with me a little bit, but... If you look at it 00:03:45.699 --> 00:03:48.620 from that perspective, the treaty making process 00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:52.319 was the only time that the British said, OK, 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.879 yeah, the Mi 'kmaq are unequal. And they had 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:00.560 no choice because we were like we were a major 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.780 fighting force. And so we entered into this peace 00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:05.659 and friendship treaty. And one of the benefits 00:04:05.659 --> 00:04:10.960 of that treaty was that they would open up a 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:16.589 truck house or trading post. or a store, I guess, 00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:19.930 in modern times, where the Mi 'kmaq would come 00:04:19.930 --> 00:04:23.009 and bring their furs, their berries, their fish, 00:04:23.290 --> 00:04:27.230 their meat, and the British would have to buy 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:32.209 it. And we thought that was a good deal, you 00:04:32.209 --> 00:04:35.649 know, keeping us happy. You know, I always think 00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:37.990 about what my ancestors say, wow, what a deal 00:04:37.990 --> 00:04:42.079 they struck. However, the British didn't think 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.480 it was a good deal because I think they called 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:52.399 on the lords of trade in England. I guess the 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.040 king's man said, yeah, this is costing us way 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:58.560 too much money. Like, yeah, we really got to 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.259 take it on that one because there was no choice. 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:03.600 They had to buy. They had to buy at a certain 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.939 price. And we did research on that because concurrently 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:12.459 to that, Donald Marshall Jr., one of our community 00:05:12.459 --> 00:05:17.500 members, his father was once the grand chief 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:19.879 of the Mi 'kmaq Nation, our traditional government. 00:05:20.660 --> 00:05:23.399 And, you know, obviously his dad is telling him 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:26.259 we have these rights, this, this, this, you know, 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:28.620 we're equal. They shouldn't be doing all these 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:33.279 things to our people. And so Donald Marshall 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:39.009 Jr., he said. He always remembered that and kept 00:05:39.009 --> 00:05:42.350 telling Chief Terry Paul, you know, we got to 00:05:42.350 --> 00:05:43.790 do something about this, got to do something 00:05:43.790 --> 00:05:47.029 about this. And for those also, just as a quick 00:05:47.029 --> 00:05:49.269 background, Donald Marshall Jr. is also a man 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:52.829 that was wrongfully convicted for a crime, in 00:05:52.829 --> 00:05:55.910 this case, a murder that he did not commit and 00:05:55.910 --> 00:05:58.649 was eventually exonerated, fully pardoned and 00:05:58.649 --> 00:06:02.970 apologized. received some money for that as well, 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:05.209 for that wrongful conviction after spending roughly 00:06:05.209 --> 00:06:10.250 11 years in jail. And he always held to the point 00:06:10.250 --> 00:06:11.790 that he was innocent. And eventually it turned 00:06:11.790 --> 00:06:15.750 out that the whole system, the justice system, 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:19.529 not only in Nova Scotia but Canada, was against 00:06:19.529 --> 00:06:22.009 the Mi 'kmaq. And there was a royal commission 00:06:22.009 --> 00:06:26.529 that was started and a big report was done. And 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:29.920 people can read up on this. About him in particular. 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:36.040 But again, on this case, in essence, the Lords 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.019 of Trade in England decided it was way too much 00:06:41.019 --> 00:06:45.019 money to keep this truck house going. And Donald 00:06:45.019 --> 00:06:47.680 Marshall Jr. at the same time was saying, you 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:49.480 know, we got to do something. We have the right 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.689 to fish. Donald Marshall Jr. went out and said, 00:06:53.769 --> 00:06:56.629 I'm doing this. And he was encouraged, obviously, 00:06:56.649 --> 00:07:00.529 by Chief Terry Paul as his chief and said, we 00:07:00.529 --> 00:07:04.990 got your back. And he went out and went and caught 00:07:04.990 --> 00:07:09.370 some eels. And so the first day, and we told 00:07:09.370 --> 00:07:14.209 the, you know, the enforcement folks, in this 00:07:14.209 --> 00:07:16.990 case, Natural Resources slash Fisheries and Oceans 00:07:16.990 --> 00:07:20.819 Canada, that we're going to go fishing. And he 00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:24.740 went down to the harbor and went and caught some 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:30.620 eels. And the enforcement guys came and kind 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:34.360 of looked at what he was doing, but didn't didn't 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:37.180 do anything about it. They said, OK. They said, 00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:39.360 well, I'm going to be back tomorrow. I said, 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:42.839 OK, we'll be here, too. And then he went and 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.060 did his thing, you know, did another few hours 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:47.439 and they're watching him. And then the third 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:50.879 day. They said, OK, clearly they got instructions. 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:55.160 Arrest them, charge them. And then right from 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:57.779 that point, that's where the case started. We 00:07:57.779 --> 00:08:03.500 basically said, yeah, we have the right to commercial 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:06.800 fish pursuant to treaty. And we used that truckhouse 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:11.939 clause in the treaty to say, you recognized that 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:15.560 we commercially fished. You wouldn't have bought 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.600 it from us, you know, hunt and fish. and collect 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:24.100 berries and other flora in the area and brought 00:08:24.100 --> 00:08:26.480 it to you and you bought it. So you recognize 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.579 implicitly that we had commercial operations 00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:33.559 going on at that time, back in the early 1700s. 00:08:33.940 --> 00:08:36.000 And so we went all the way to Supreme Court of 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:41.100 Canada and ultimately the Supreme Court sided 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.899 with us. And yeah, that was something. I still 00:08:45.899 --> 00:08:48.700 remember that day vividly when the case came 00:08:48.700 --> 00:08:53.379 down. There was a big press conference. You probably 00:08:53.379 --> 00:08:59.639 could look that up and see how we dealt with 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.019 that. And it was one of those situations that 00:09:03.019 --> 00:09:05.440 it was where we said, OK, let's not rub it in 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.179 the face. We realize this is a big, massive opportunity. 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.399 We're not ready to undertake it. And so let's. 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:16.470 let's go and say, okay, we'll work with government 00:09:16.470 --> 00:09:22.070 to get this situation underhand. And there were 00:09:22.070 --> 00:09:24.450 so many things happening at the same time. You 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:26.429 know, you had the fisheries organizations going 00:09:26.429 --> 00:09:30.409 crazy. Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada 00:09:30.409 --> 00:09:37.149 couldn't believe it. But, you know, we coalesced 00:09:37.149 --> 00:09:40.490 the 36 First Nations at the time to say, OK, 00:09:40.590 --> 00:09:43.990 let's work together. And in fact, actually, we 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:48.429 sent out an olive branch and said we would do 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:51.649 a 30 -day moratorium. Don't go out fishing until, 00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:54.769 you know, government can get caught up to speed. 00:09:55.269 --> 00:09:58.129 And sure enough, that was greatly appreciated. 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:01.429 In fact, circling back. The prime minister was 00:10:01.429 --> 00:10:03.769 Jean Chrétien at the time. And he, you know, 00:10:03.769 --> 00:10:05.809 I remember talking to him a few times about it. 00:10:05.870 --> 00:10:07.830 And he said, we really appreciate you doing this. 00:10:08.129 --> 00:10:10.909 And we'll all work it out. And what we'll do 00:10:10.909 --> 00:10:14.769 is get your capacity built up and make this all 00:10:14.769 --> 00:10:17.769 go according to the law of the land, which was 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:19.970 the recognition of your commercial fishing rights. 00:10:20.789 --> 00:10:23.830 And then that's what started the whole. Acquisition 00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:28.350 of quotas and purchasing of quotas for the Mi 00:10:28.350 --> 00:10:32.990 'kmaq people. Also fleets of ships and all the 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:37.429 attachments that go with fishing in the North 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:40.409 Atlantic. And then ultimately from the member 00:10:40.409 --> 00:10:44.090 two perspective, that led us to start the journey, 00:10:44.129 --> 00:10:47.049 which ultimately culminated with the purchase 00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:49.610 of Clearwater Fisheries, which I'm sure Chief 00:10:49.610 --> 00:10:53.000 Terry Paul talked to you extensively about. for 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:56.860 over a billion dollars a few years back. So that 00:10:56.860 --> 00:11:00.659 case was very important to us at the time. Country 00:11:00.659 --> 00:11:04.779 changing, game changing, and all kinds of lessons 00:11:04.779 --> 00:11:07.820 to that and learnings. First of all, everybody 00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:11.159 loves conspiracies. Who was in charge of the 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.759 enforcement officers? Was it an indigenous person 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.179 to say, okay, now go do it. Let's see what happens. 00:11:17.500 --> 00:11:20.879 I'm joking. I know, I know. But we don't know. 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.940 Like, you know, I don't. No, of course not. People 00:11:24.940 --> 00:11:27.320 never remember their names anyway. It's not that 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:29.480 I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. It's 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.480 just that those guys at the time were probably 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:34.019 doing their job, right? Go charge those crazy 00:11:34.019 --> 00:11:37.580 guys. And then it culminated domino effect, which. 00:11:38.809 --> 00:11:40.809 they probably are happy to say, well, I was involved. 00:11:41.009 --> 00:11:43.429 I was a good charge. I'm sure they are today. 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:46.690 And I think the other thing is, you know, when 00:11:46.690 --> 00:11:49.429 you talked about this, I think the 36 communities, 00:11:49.669 --> 00:11:54.769 you got them working together. I mean, that probably 00:11:54.769 --> 00:11:58.690 was an exceptional moment because it's tough 00:11:58.690 --> 00:12:01.169 to get independent communities and each with 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:03.809 their own chiefs. Okay. Here's how we're going 00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:07.720 to play it. And then to say, okay. And. We're 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.340 going to have a 30 -day moratorium. Yeah. Yeah, 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.919 that was something there because, you know, we 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.860 did it. I say we because I work closely with 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:22.279 a good friend and colleague of mine, Dan Christmas, 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:25.259 who, you know, eventually became a senator in 00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:29.659 the Senate of Canada. And he and I both worked 00:12:29.659 --> 00:12:34.169 very diligently to make this happen. And, of 00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:36.549 course, Chief Terry Paul working behind the scenes, 00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:41.350 you know, with his special expertise to make 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:43.590 sure the chiefs eventually came on side. You 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:45.649 have to remember we're different provinces, you 00:12:45.649 --> 00:12:47.950 know, different territories of the Mi 'kmaq Nation, 00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:51.330 little slight little variances. But, you know, 00:12:51.350 --> 00:12:54.090 we pulled it off. And even the government people, 00:12:54.289 --> 00:12:56.590 I've had conversations with government people, 00:12:56.710 --> 00:13:02.850 even most recently, that remember all that. And 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:06.190 people have worked in the minister's office and 00:13:06.190 --> 00:13:10.370 both the prime minister's office said we couldn't 00:13:10.370 --> 00:13:13.350 believe, A, that we lost because we were being 00:13:13.350 --> 00:13:15.970 told by justice people that this case is in the 00:13:15.970 --> 00:13:20.750 bag. But B, how you guys coordinated all that 00:13:20.750 --> 00:13:24.090 and still had us on our toes because, you know, 00:13:24.129 --> 00:13:25.590 obviously government always thinks they're in 00:13:25.590 --> 00:13:30.909 charge. But yeah, it was a fun time, Mark. It 00:13:30.909 --> 00:13:35.610 was very interesting. I think the one point that 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:40.269 made it really special, and it's something I 00:13:40.269 --> 00:13:42.769 deal with in other parts of the country when 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:45.090 I'm dealing with groups of First Nations trying 00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:47.330 to collaborate or a nation in itself that has 00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:49.850 very different communities, is that I always 00:13:49.850 --> 00:13:54.850 try to focus on one particular, we'll call it 00:13:54.850 --> 00:13:58.529 motherhood issue. That they all can say, yeah, 00:13:58.610 --> 00:14:01.549 this is why we're doing this. And that seems 00:14:01.549 --> 00:14:04.830 to work. You know, you're not trying to, you 00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:08.490 know, scam them, so to speak. You're trying to 00:14:08.490 --> 00:14:11.190 get them to work collectively. And you always 00:14:11.190 --> 00:14:13.470 use this one particular motherhood issue that 00:14:13.470 --> 00:14:15.110 will bring them all together and they keep focused. 00:14:15.690 --> 00:14:17.690 Well, that's how Chief Terry Paul got you home. 00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:23.690 Yeah. Feel to your heart, right? Yeah. The SINUC 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:28.740 development. in Vancouver is really interesting. 00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:32.600 Why don't you talk a little bit about where you 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.100 were there day one. It's almost ready for first 00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:40.500 tenants, I think, early next year. Tell us a 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:44.539 little bit about the vision and how that evolved. 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:51.620 Yeah, so the Sanak deal is the brainchild of... 00:14:53.529 --> 00:14:57.210 quite a few of the politicians of the Squamish 00:14:57.210 --> 00:15:00.470 Nation, a lot of traditional chiefs and current 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:07.309 leadership that had seen this idea blossom with 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:15.370 some developers. And I was brought on to, initially 00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:18.029 I was brought on as a member of the board of 00:15:18.029 --> 00:15:21.629 directors of Enshikai, which is the business 00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:26.549 arm of the Squamish Nation. And then they asked 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:29.830 me then to eventually become the CEO based on, 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:34.789 you know, my past experiences and the things 00:15:34.789 --> 00:15:38.289 that I'd done. And so, as I already mentioned 00:15:38.289 --> 00:15:40.549 early on, you know, we had some other projects 00:15:40.549 --> 00:15:43.470 on the go, the LNG facility with fiber with the 00:15:43.470 --> 00:15:46.629 Singaporean interests. And then we had our forestry 00:15:46.629 --> 00:15:49.009 operations that we're trying to get rolling. 00:15:49.529 --> 00:15:52.990 And then we're starting some fishing. fishing 00:15:52.990 --> 00:15:57.070 operations and but real estate was a is a big 00:15:57.070 --> 00:15:59.049 thing for the squamish nation because they're 00:15:59.049 --> 00:16:01.570 in the the heart of the hottest real estate market 00:16:01.570 --> 00:16:07.049 in canada at least vancouver that whole region 00:16:07.049 --> 00:16:11.789 known as the mainland of british columbia and 00:16:11.789 --> 00:16:16.730 they had this idea to build get into the the 00:16:16.730 --> 00:16:22.419 marketplace with a property Around 10 acres in 00:16:22.419 --> 00:16:26.500 downtown Vancouver, which again has same kind 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:29.179 of similar history to, you know, a lot of nations 00:16:29.179 --> 00:16:31.320 across the country could say the same thing where 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:35.019 their land was taken. You know, it was just someone 00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:37.360 just decided, yeah, I'm taking that. Nothing 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.360 you do. And they couldn't do anything because 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:41.340 they didn't, as you pointed out, rightly didn't 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:43.600 have legal representation and you couldn't represent 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:48.879 a First Nation in. in fighting government or 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.840 police or anything like that in the early days 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.919 of this country. So they went to a court way 00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:00.139 before my time and re -garnered this piece of 00:17:00.139 --> 00:17:05.859 property, a very prime spot, and near the Kitsilano 00:17:05.859 --> 00:17:09.420 area of Vancouver. For those who aren't familiar 00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:14.579 with that, it's a very posh, posh area. Very 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:19.839 posh. They said, well, this is our Indian reserve 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.539 and we're building. You know, you guys built 00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:25.559 and we're building. So they decided to do this 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:32.799 project with a developer called West Bank. And 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.380 we started the project with them. And, you know, 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:42.359 again, it was well over, I think, again, around 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.099 the one point. two to one point five billion 00:17:45.099 --> 00:17:49.259 dollars that the uh that squamish has uh invested 00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:54.579 into this and uh part of the rationale for building 00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:57.640 it was to create affordable housing also for 00:17:57.640 --> 00:17:59.460 its community members a lot of people don't know 00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:01.839 that because it's not really focused on in um 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:06.299 in the uh the press but it was to create uh affordable 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:10.500 housing uh vancouver i'm sure is just like london 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:17.160 crazy The prices for rental properties like in 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.799 London or New York are astronomical. Well, guess 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.740 what? It's like that in Vancouver too. And a 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.279 lot of community members aren't in that bracket, 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:30.000 that pay grade that they can afford $2 ,000, 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:36.220 $3 ,000, $4 ,000 rent for a small little space. 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.480 Even if it's Canadian, it's still a lot. It's 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.279 still a lot, yeah. So we said, okay, part of 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:48.039 the deal is you got to give us X number of units 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.140 that are just going to be for community members 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:54.680 to have, whether it's purchased through the Squamish 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:58.619 Nation or the community member is able to raise 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:02.640 the funds or get financing to do a traditional 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.710 type mortgage, but at an affordable price. So 00:19:07.710 --> 00:19:10.630 that's how that came about. And that's why I 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:14.250 almost suspect probably the nation itself agreed 00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:17.670 to say, yeah, let's build this thing. But you 00:19:17.670 --> 00:19:22.769 got to have these units for us. Yes. And when's 00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:24.950 that coming on stream or have some of those apartments 00:19:24.950 --> 00:19:29.630 been released now? Well, it started. Construction 00:19:29.630 --> 00:19:35.470 started about a year, year and a half ago, a 00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:38.470 year ago. And it's if you come to Canada, come 00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:42.309 to Vancouver, it's on the off the broad street 00:19:42.309 --> 00:19:46.990 bridge and near a famous tour spot called Granville 00:19:46.990 --> 00:19:50.390 Island. And you can see it there. I've seen pictures 00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:54.730 of it. Wow. What a great location. Right. So 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:56.930 I don't know about the existing residents, but 00:19:56.930 --> 00:20:00.509 the new ones will be very, very happy with the 00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:04.329 ability to participate that and another interesting. 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:09.819 Just one question before we wrap up and talk 00:20:09.819 --> 00:20:12.019 about some of your learnings and insights for 00:20:12.019 --> 00:20:18.440 foreign investors. How does the Indigenous experience 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.920 differ? First Nations on Turtle Island, north 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.240 of the border and south, because Indigenous nations 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.200 in Canada, the First Nations, the Indigenous 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:35.569 peoples are now recognized. As the foundation 00:20:35.569 --> 00:20:38.730 for the country. And the country will not succeed. 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:43.170 Unless the First Nations succeed. Without a doubt. 00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:46.609 There'll be arguments along the way. And you 00:20:46.609 --> 00:20:49.589 know we can talk about. Building Canada Act and 00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:53.269 all that. But. It's not going to happen. In south 00:20:53.269 --> 00:20:56.490 of the border. It's completely different. There 00:20:56.490 --> 00:21:01.250 must be some. First Nations. Thinking jeepers. 00:21:02.329 --> 00:21:05.089 We never looked north and thought they. had better 00:21:05.089 --> 00:21:09.230 opportunities. What, do you have a view? Can 00:21:09.230 --> 00:21:11.269 you share some perspective on that? Because I 00:21:11.269 --> 00:21:13.990 don't know enough to, that's just from my perspective 00:21:13.990 --> 00:21:17.490 looking in. Yeah. So I would, you know, first, 00:21:17.549 --> 00:21:21.049 the first thing I'm going to say is that we're, 00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:29.069 we're attuned to the fact that our rights are 00:21:29.069 --> 00:21:31.809 ingrained in the constitution of the country. 00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:38.529 So no government, no business can affect those 00:21:38.529 --> 00:21:40.869 things. They could try putting little limits 00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:44.910 on it, but they can't affect those rights that 00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:48.650 have been ingrained in the Constitution. So that's 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:50.309 probably the biggest thing that people should 00:21:50.309 --> 00:21:53.970 be aware of. And then combine that most recently 00:21:53.970 --> 00:21:56.569 with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous 00:21:56.569 --> 00:22:00.039 Peoples, which has been adopted by Canada. and 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.059 a slight version of that is has been adopted 00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:07.619 by canada so it's making it even more um more 00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:11.400 relevant and so uh someone asked me this question 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:13.619 just the other day and i think it's appropriate 00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:17.059 you know they said well why aren't you know the 00:22:17.059 --> 00:22:21.039 canada passed this legislation try to speed up 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:25.380 projects because of the current situation with 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:28.680 the United States and, you know, global marketplace. 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.519 So Canada, in the wisdom from the prime ministers 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.279 and his government, said, OK, we're going to 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.420 pass this thing called Bill 5, Bill C -5, and 00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:45.240 fast track a lot of infrastructure projects, 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.119 big major projects. Some of the ones that I alluded 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.859 to, Port Churchill, nuclear development, LNG 00:22:51.859 --> 00:22:54.400 development, and a whole host of other sort of 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:58.839 big housing initiative across the country, amongst 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.519 others. But they had always said, well, the issue 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:07.180 is that the regulatory red tape slows it all 00:23:07.180 --> 00:23:12.849 down. So the notion was to pass this legislation 00:23:12.849 --> 00:23:15.750 to speed up the process, to fast track everything. 00:23:16.690 --> 00:23:19.349 But unfortunately, I think what they forgot was 00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:22.089 that the Canadian Constitution says Aboriginal 00:23:22.089 --> 00:23:25.430 rights have to be respected and maintained and 00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:29.289 can't be affected. And so at one point they're 00:23:29.289 --> 00:23:31.410 trying to say, well, we'll consult with you later. 00:23:32.479 --> 00:23:34.500 Yeah, I have a feeling that's going to be tested. 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:36.339 And in fact, I know it's going to be tested. 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:37.980 There's cases that, you know, I already know 00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.720 some communities are saying, OK, well, we'll 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:43.619 see how this goes. And, you know, I'm pretty 00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:45.740 confident the Supreme Court is going to put a 00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:50.619 little damper on that Bill 5 as it affects Aboriginal 00:23:50.619 --> 00:23:53.640 rights. So I don't think they really meant to 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:58.079 do that. But, you know, the. indirectly it's 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.039 happened and it's caused a big stir here in the 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.180 country. But another part, just also flipping 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:05.440 it, it's not just that we're getting irritated 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.359 that our rights are trying to be trampled on 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.420 again. I don't think that's it. There's a whole 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:13.079 bunch of other things that are at play here. 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:17.579 Canada has a huge environmental movement that 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.319 affects a lot of projects, but they can't do 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:23.759 anything because, again, they don't have those 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.420 constitutional protections. So you don't hear 00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:29.279 them talking about this in a very meaningful 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.819 way. But however, they are turning towards the 00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.940 Indigenous community to say, you got to help 00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:37.000 us. You're the only saving grace here that can 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:42.200 help stop some of the craziness that is being 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.200 brought out in legislation. And in the province 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.220 of Ontario, they did the same thing. And they're 00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:51.720 also starting to realize, yeah, geez, I think 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:53.359 we might have made a mistake with the Indigenous 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.539 groups because. In Canada, the way the legal 00:24:56.539 --> 00:25:00.200 system is, the province can, in a limited way, 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:07.099 get involved in a federal matter. What I would 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:10.279 refer to that is Indigenous communities, generally, 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.950 in a weird way, is a federal jurisdiction. But 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:18.009 they can't they can't alter it, alter those rights. 00:25:18.269 --> 00:25:21.109 And so I think they got themselves caught. And, 00:25:21.289 --> 00:25:24.210 you know, time will tell how that that works 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:28.470 out. So for, you know, the you know, the audience 00:25:28.470 --> 00:25:33.309 in other places other than Canada, you know, 00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:36.829 if you're wanting to come, you know, don't I 00:25:36.829 --> 00:25:41.900 think you should still come here. And and if 00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:44.980 by some amazing chance you are working with the 00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:47.839 Indigenous community, I think it's even better 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.359 for you because of the fact that we have these 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.039 abilities to push certain levers and buttons 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.819 that, you know, a traditional. partnership in 00:25:58.819 --> 00:26:01.519 the marketplace that you may be considering may 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:06.019 not have. And everyone's looking for the opportunities 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:13.220 to move shareholder value in the sense of the 00:26:13.220 --> 00:26:18.579 Indigenous potential partner or other structure 00:26:18.579 --> 00:26:21.900 that you're looking at. I can tell you right 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:24.339 now, we're looking for deals for own source revenues 00:26:24.339 --> 00:26:27.809 to uplift our shareholders. the community members 00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:31.450 bring up our standard of living and do all those 00:26:31.450 --> 00:26:34.650 great things that, you know, people get into 00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:38.950 business for. And then also the, so I, you know, 00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:42.650 that's the, I think that's the kind of key point 00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:46.230 that people kind of have to remember. It's, it 00:26:46.230 --> 00:26:48.869 is an interesting time right now, a very interesting 00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:53.529 time from a business perspective, the legal perspective, 00:26:54.089 --> 00:26:59.299 the moral perspective, You know, the financial 00:26:59.299 --> 00:27:02.259 institutions in this country, we have a, you 00:27:02.259 --> 00:27:04.599 know, some people call it a monopoly. You have 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:07.339 five major banks. There, in fact, are, you know, 00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:10.920 30 something banks in this country. But the five 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.299 major ones kind of control, you know, what goes 00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:18.720 on. But, you know, even they are having difficulty 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.799 with some of these financings unless the First 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.190 Nation is involved in the project. Well, I think 00:27:25.190 --> 00:27:26.710 a couple of things. Canada's always dependent 00:27:26.710 --> 00:27:29.029 on foreign capital. And if you want to succeed 00:27:29.029 --> 00:27:32.549 in Canada, it's in partnership with the Indigenous 00:27:32.549 --> 00:27:36.250 peoples of Canada now. And that's the way to 00:27:36.250 --> 00:27:39.730 succeed. And when you talk about your experience 00:27:39.730 --> 00:27:42.150 and career and everything that's happened is 00:27:42.150 --> 00:27:46.890 Indigenous people are pro -development. They 00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:51.869 just don't want to be left behind or tread over. 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:55.680 With no input into how it happens. This is great 00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:00.380 business stories. Yeah, exactly. It's not a situation 00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:03.000 where we're trying to stop things. Oh my gosh. 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.359 No, I can, I can tell you that right now. The 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:10.900 theory is that, you know, we are looking to do 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:15.519 exactly what other people's in a capitalist oriented 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.970 marketplace. want to do. We want to buy cars. 00:28:20.049 --> 00:28:22.210 We want to buy TVs. We want to buy groceries. 00:28:22.509 --> 00:28:25.569 We want to buy nice clothes. We want to raise 00:28:25.569 --> 00:28:28.829 our children, have a great education system, 00:28:28.910 --> 00:28:31.450 a social safety net. We'd like to do all those 00:28:31.450 --> 00:28:35.549 too. But you have to do it with hard -earned 00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:39.549 money, revenue systems. So why not allow us to 00:28:39.549 --> 00:28:43.160 be a part of that? And in the past, and to some 00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:46.819 point now, if you're going to not do that with 00:28:46.819 --> 00:28:49.900 us and it's on our territories, yeah, you're 00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:52.859 going to get people saying, well, let's do get 00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:57.359 out. And now that we, you know, the treasuries 00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.299 are being built up in a lot of the communities 00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:02.440 across the country, you know, the fight is on. 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.339 It would be on. But I think it makes more business 00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:09.099 sense to say, well, let's kind of work something 00:29:09.099 --> 00:29:11.420 out. And you're not looking for people trying 00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:15.240 to, you know, destroy your business plan or destroy 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.039 your ultimate, you know, shareholder value. And 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:21.940 it's all within reason. You know, you got to 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:25.160 give some peace. You know, like when you come 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.539 to Canada right now, the provinces, you know, 00:29:27.579 --> 00:29:29.940 the provincial governments, the federal government, 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.559 they ask for taxes. You know, that's a source 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.779 of revenue for them. First Nations are not taxing 00:29:38.779 --> 00:29:41.339 you, so to speak, but they're asking for a piece 00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.460 of revenue. Right. So that's what we're talking 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:46.880 about. We're not, you know, trying to take everything 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:50.920 that's been hard earned and created by the company 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:55.779 that's coming into the marketplace. Bernd, I'd 00:29:55.779 --> 00:29:58.380 love to keep talking on and on and on. You've 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:02.180 touched on. the great modern history of the country, 00:30:02.299 --> 00:30:04.619 current history of the country. And you talk 00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:08.619 about Mishner, the law firm and governor general 00:30:08.619 --> 00:30:12.200 at one point, Shoal Lake in Manitoba. I was born 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.200 in Brandon. That name's very familiar. And of 00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:18.140 course the case itself. And so it has been wonderful 00:30:18.140 --> 00:30:22.200 to have you on our podcast, Bernd. Rob and I 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.599 really appreciate. all the experience you've 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:27.460 shared and our audience will benefit from all 00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:29.599 those stories you've told. So thank you very 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.480 much, Bernd. It's been a pleasure. Well, Bernd, 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.079 it's been great talking to you. Thanks again 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.000 for taking the time. I look forward to seeing 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.099 you soon. But in the meantime, y 'all can go. 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.059 Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you for inviting 00:30:43.059 --> 00:30:46.900 me to the program. And, you know, it's a much 00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:50.140 needed. Because, you know, the voice of Indigenous 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:52.200 peoples has to be out there. And you've always 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.720 had amazing guests and leaders that are well 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.500 beyond me that are doing some amazing things. 00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:03.839 You know, I think people really appreciate what 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.279 you guys are doing. Thank you to Bern Christmas 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:09.500 for sharing his insights with us. And thank you 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:12.400 for viewing and listening. Mark your calendars 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.319 for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking place on 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.150 the 8th of April. Be sure to share, subscribe, 00:31:18.390 --> 00:31:20.670 and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 00:31:21.329 --> 00:31:23.789 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. Until next 00:31:23.789 --> 00:31:24.109 time.