WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.810 --> 00:00:15.470 I'm Mark McNacken. My co -host Robert Brandt 00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:17.690 and I are joined today by John -Paul Gladdu, 00:00:17.769 --> 00:00:22.269 JP to many of his friends, board member of the 00:00:22.269 --> 00:00:24.710 recently announced Indigenous Advisory Council 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:27.530 that's part of Mark Carney's push for building 00:00:27.530 --> 00:00:31.559 Canada. He is also the principal of Mokwete. 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:35.159 JP discussed his unique background as an Indigenous 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:37.600 leader who bridges traditional Indigenous life 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.979 with modern corporate leadership. He shared his 00:00:40.979 --> 00:00:43.299 journey from his Anishinaabe roots in Thunder 00:00:43.299 --> 00:00:46.420 Bay, Ontario, to becoming president and CEO of 00:00:46.420 --> 00:00:48.219 the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business, 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:50.939 where he developed programs to support Indigenous 00:00:50.939 --> 00:00:55.399 entrepreneurs. He also spoke about his new role 00:00:55.820 --> 00:00:58.140 on the Indigenous Advisory Council for the Major 00:00:58.140 --> 00:01:01.100 Projects Office. He emphasized the importance 00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:03.579 of direct engagement with Indigenous communities 00:01:03.579 --> 00:01:07.180 and highlighted successful examples such as Enbridge's 00:01:07.180 --> 00:01:09.560 collaborative work with the First Nations in 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:13.060 Alberta. He encourages overseas investors to 00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:15.760 engage directly with Indigenous leaders to gain 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:18.040 a deeper understanding of ground -level perspectives 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:21.379 and highlight the transformative impact of Indigenous 00:01:21.379 --> 00:01:24.200 leadership on not only Canada's resource development 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:29.319 sector, but the economy as a whole. Jean -Paul 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.200 or JP, glad to have you with us on Drumbeat. 00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:35.780 It's really nice to see you again. Great to be 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.680 here. Thanks for the invitation. Yes, great to 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:43.870 have you with us, JP. So, JP Gladu, a well -known 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:48.430 name in Canada and to a number of overseas investors. 00:01:48.609 --> 00:01:50.329 But why don't you tell us a little bit about 00:01:50.329 --> 00:01:52.909 yourself, a little bit about who you are, your 00:01:52.909 --> 00:01:55.209 background, where you are at the moment. As you 00:01:55.209 --> 00:01:56.930 know, we're speaking to an audience who's overseas, 00:01:57.090 --> 00:01:59.969 who's not as familiar as Canada, as some of us, 00:01:59.989 --> 00:02:01.829 and probably don't know the best places to hunt 00:02:01.829 --> 00:02:07.340 moose. Thanks for that. Actually, today I'm in 00:02:07.340 --> 00:02:10.979 Coast Salish Territory in Vancouver. And, you 00:02:10.979 --> 00:02:12.879 know, it takes as long to fly across our country 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.000 as it does to fly across the ocean to visit you 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.819 guys to kind of give you a perspective of how 00:02:16.819 --> 00:02:20.879 big this country is. My name is, I go, my friends 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.719 call me JP. If I'm called John Paul, then that's 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.419 usually my dad yelling at me. So I know I'm in 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:29.599 trouble. So we'll stick with JP. I'm Anishinaabe, 00:02:29.699 --> 00:02:33.379 which means Ojibwe in kind of English, and I'm 00:02:33.379 --> 00:02:36.900 First Nation. I grew up in Thunder Bay. My dad 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:39.460 was a logger. My grandfather was a logger. My 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:41.139 other grandfather worked in the Trans -Canada 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:44.439 Pipelines building those. I became a forester 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:48.340 and then an MBA and then an Institute for Corporate 00:02:48.340 --> 00:02:51.620 Directors. I'm a director on a number of publicly 00:02:51.620 --> 00:02:54.780 traded boards. and an advisor to some global 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:58.560 companies like BHP, as an example, or Domtar, 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:02.620 Global Forest Products Company. I grew up, you 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:04.199 know, these aren't my typical hunting clothes, 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:07.479 as you might imagine, but I grew up in the bush. 00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:10.580 And there's a saying in Canada, at least in our 00:03:10.580 --> 00:03:14.400 community as Indigenous people, walking two worlds. 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.280 And that means that, you know, I spend a lot 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.500 of time on the land, but I also spend a lot of 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.409 time in boardrooms in the cities. I prefer to 00:03:23.409 --> 00:03:26.550 be on the land with the animals most of the time 00:03:26.550 --> 00:03:30.990 because they're more predictable. But, you know, 00:03:30.990 --> 00:03:35.469 I really love the dual role of my life. One of 00:03:35.469 --> 00:03:37.210 the proudest moments, actually, last year, my 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:40.069 daughter was 20. She's 21 now. She harvested 00:03:40.069 --> 00:03:42.729 her first moose, just the two of us. One shot, 00:03:42.750 --> 00:03:46.110 she got her done, and she was so incredibly impressive. 00:03:49.980 --> 00:03:52.580 She field dressed that moose. I mean, I helped, 00:03:52.659 --> 00:03:54.680 but she did 80 % of the work and she skinned. 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.699 And then this moment, I was overcome with just 00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:02.800 pure pride and joy and love because when my dad 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.139 came to see us, I might get a little emotional 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:09.860 here, to see the moose. And for me to carry that 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:11.560 knowledge that my father, who's a chief of my 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.319 community. Who I had the pleasure of meeting 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.079 earlier. You did, Rob. You did. JP. You did. 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:21.850 Wow, what a great guy. And so you get a sense 00:04:21.850 --> 00:04:26.930 of the presence that that man has as a 73 -year 00:04:26.930 --> 00:04:29.889 -old leader himself. And for him and my daughter 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:31.790 to be butchering a moose together. And I was 00:04:31.790 --> 00:04:34.370 just the rapper, not like a song rapper, but 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:37.709 like the guy rapping the moose meat. And then 00:04:37.709 --> 00:04:39.930 kind of looking around about the economic activity 00:04:39.930 --> 00:04:43.560 that we've had in our community. I've been a 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:47.480 strong advocate for the inclusion of Indigenous 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:52.740 people in the natural resources. And I used to 00:04:52.740 --> 00:04:54.319 be the president and CEO of the Canadian Council 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.540 for Indigenous Business for nearly eight years. 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.259 You know, I sit on, I mentioned a board, Suncor, 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.819 Canada's largest integrated oil and gas company, 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:09.060 superior plus propane across the country and 00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:13.459 the States. And, you know, I'm just so grateful 00:05:13.459 --> 00:05:16.800 to be in the position that I'm in to be able 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.439 to be at the table like folks like yourself, 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:21.360 having these deep conversations, because now 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.560 is the time in Canada. Now is the time of the 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:29.379 Indigenous position, the Indigenous. thoughts, 00:05:29.459 --> 00:05:33.399 the Indigenous leadership. And, you know, I'm 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:35.040 sure we'll get into some conversation about what 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.019 that looks like, because it is transforming our 00:05:38.019 --> 00:05:41.759 country. They're not without challenges, but 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:45.759 certainly for your listeners over the pond, I 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.620 think. We really need to pay attention to this 00:05:48.620 --> 00:05:52.540 issue because you're going to get it unfiltered 00:05:52.540 --> 00:05:54.279 from Indigenous people rather than just listening 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.079 to investors or mining companies or energy companies. 00:05:57.639 --> 00:05:59.540 You need to listen to the people that are actually 00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:01.500 on the ground every day. So I really appreciate 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:05.860 you gentlemen taking the time with me. Our pleasure, 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.500 JP. And I don't know where to begin, except maybe 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:11.540 you mentioned the Canadian Council for Indigenous 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.509 Business you were president, CEO for. was it 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:19.290 eight years? How did you end up there? Talk a 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:22.529 little bit about your time at CCIB. I'm a proud 00:06:22.529 --> 00:06:25.110 member of the board of directors today, and I've 00:06:25.110 --> 00:06:28.769 admired the growth and the way the CCIB has evolved 00:06:28.769 --> 00:06:31.069 over the years. And you were a big part of that. 00:06:32.050 --> 00:06:35.949 Thanks. Thanks. I appreciate that, Rob. He's 00:06:35.949 --> 00:06:37.829 one of those things, you know, I worked for my 00:06:37.829 --> 00:06:40.910 own First Nation. I worked across the country. 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.839 doing a lot of forestry, doing energy projects. 00:06:47.019 --> 00:06:48.839 I was actually working for my own First Nation 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.040 at the time. I had just finished my executive 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.779 MBA at Queens, and the role came up. And I knew 00:06:53.779 --> 00:06:55.660 who Clint Davis was. Actually, I was friends 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:58.620 with his wife. And I hope he gets to see this, 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.199 him and Hillary, because I like his wife better. 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.379 You know, Clint is an incredible leader in Canada. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.860 You know, he leads Cedar Leaf Financial. Like, 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:10.160 he's just this incredible nook from the north, 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:14.560 Harvard grad. He was my predecessor. And, you 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.240 know, when I heard the opportunity came up, I 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:19.660 threw my name in the hat right away. Because 00:07:19.660 --> 00:07:23.879 I'm a huge believer of the importance of entrepreneurs, 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:27.199 no matter what your background is. And in Canada, 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.639 I know there is this budding emergence of Indigenous 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.139 entrepreneurs. You've got to understand that, 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.040 you know, it wasn't too long ago that, you know, 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:39.639 First Nations people didn't have the right to 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.699 vote. You know, women had the right to vote before 00:07:41.699 --> 00:07:45.079 we did. We weren't allowed to leave our reserves. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.980 We weren't allowed to get an education. My own 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:51.000 community in 1958, our land, you know, my dad 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:54.310 might have mentioned this to you, Rob. Our reserve 00:07:54.310 --> 00:07:56.769 was burnt to the ground in 1958 by the government 00:07:56.769 --> 00:08:00.370 and we were forcibly removed. And, you know, 00:08:00.370 --> 00:08:02.370 all these atrocities that are happening, but 00:08:02.370 --> 00:08:04.250 it's business as the equalizer. It doesn't matter. 00:08:04.410 --> 00:08:06.269 You're in the trenches together. It doesn't matter 00:08:06.269 --> 00:08:08.329 the color of your skin or your background. You're 00:08:08.329 --> 00:08:10.430 doing business together. You're failing together. 00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:12.930 You're succeeding together. And those relationships 00:08:12.930 --> 00:08:15.509 carry forward. So I'm really passionate about 00:08:15.509 --> 00:08:17.430 it, as you can probably tell, the Indigenous 00:08:17.430 --> 00:08:19.730 entrepreneurs. So the opportunity to join the 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:23.430 CCIB and to lead that organization for nearly 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:25.029 eight years with the great board of directors 00:08:25.029 --> 00:08:28.889 was just incredible. I think the proudest moment. 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:31.660 developed and started a number of programs there. 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:33.500 But the one that really stood out for me and 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:35.799 the team, we led the best research in the world 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:37.980 because without solid data, it's hard to make 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:40.419 decisions about where you're going to go if you 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.480 don't have good data to guide you. So that was 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.600 really impressive what the team was able to do. 00:08:44.980 --> 00:08:47.679 And then as well as, you know, the procurement 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.649 targets, we started the supply change. supply 00:08:50.649 --> 00:08:54.629 chain opportunities, procurement champions, and, 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:57.070 you know, getting the government to commit to 00:08:57.070 --> 00:08:59.990 a 5 % target, getting the economy, the business 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:02.429 players at the table to start embracing the way 00:09:02.429 --> 00:09:04.450 Indigenous entrepreneurs and communities are 00:09:04.450 --> 00:09:07.190 contributing to the economy, because it's their 00:09:07.190 --> 00:09:09.750 business that it's the great equalizer, I think. 00:09:09.889 --> 00:09:11.669 You know, I know my succession outside with a 00:09:11.669 --> 00:09:14.029 bull continuing. I know she reports to you, Rob. 00:09:14.149 --> 00:09:17.340 So, you know, she worked for, I hired her. I 00:09:17.340 --> 00:09:19.539 had her for a year as my chief operating officer, 00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:21.460 my second in command. And I looked at her and 00:09:21.460 --> 00:09:23.259 I said, Tabitha, I said, I'm not long for this 00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:25.279 job for too much longer. And, you know, it's 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:27.259 not my decision, but I see you as the next leader. 00:09:27.299 --> 00:09:29.659 I think she's remarkable. And I know the organization 00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:33.460 continues to do great work. So, you know, extraordinary 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:35.919 time in my life. I hold it near and dear to my 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.559 heart. Wow. I don't know where we should start 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.460 from that. Rob, do you have a specific direction 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:47.389 or should we drop into a hot issue? Well, the 00:09:47.389 --> 00:09:50.950 most recent news, I guess, in the life of J .P. 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:53.149 Gladue is this appointment to the Indigenous 00:09:53.149 --> 00:09:58.529 Advisory Council that will advise the brand new 00:09:58.529 --> 00:10:02.370 Major Projects Office and the new initiative 00:10:02.370 --> 00:10:05.629 of the federal government to try and move major 00:10:05.629 --> 00:10:10.230 projects, select major projects forward faster, 00:10:10.590 --> 00:10:12.669 but with meaningful Indigenous participation. 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.059 and so as part of that new structure an advisory 00:10:17.059 --> 00:10:19.600 council has been established with representation 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.899 as we've discussed from first nations inui metis 00:10:23.899 --> 00:10:28.379 and jp is on that list i don't think we've spoken 00:10:28.379 --> 00:10:31.159 to anybody yet who is who is on that council 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.320 but uh so let's get into that jp what a what 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.399 an honor it must have been to be appointed and 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.360 how do you see I don't think we've seen terms 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.200 of reference yet, but what exactly do you see 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:49.580 your role and the council's role as? Yeah, thanks. 00:10:49.700 --> 00:10:53.600 Thanks, Rob. It was a huge honor. I got a call 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.659 on a Saturday. Interestingly, my daughter was 00:10:56.659 --> 00:10:59.539 in town and we were just getting ready to go 00:10:59.539 --> 00:11:01.340 out moose hunting, just the father -daughter 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:04.940 team again. And I didn't say yes right away, 00:11:05.019 --> 00:11:07.720 but my inclination was to say yes. You know, 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:11.480 I had to, of course. be mindful of conflicts 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:13.259 because I'm on the Suncor board and Pathways 00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:16.000 Project is one of those projects that have been 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.500 listed in the 32 so far. And of course, there's 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.080 many ways to manage a conflict. But I also checked 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.919 in with my own team at Mokwete, our firm. So 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:28.980 everybody was like, are you crazy? Say yes. This 00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:30.700 is an incredible opportunity. And I said, no, 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:32.259 I know it's an incredible opportunity. Is this 00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:36.220 something that I've got the bandwidth for? Because 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:37.759 it's pretty busy. Because you've got to commit. 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.440 And when you commit, you've got to commit. So 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.039 my schedule in the future might be shifting a 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.480 little bit to make room for this important conversation. 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.360 The idea is to meet with the other 10 Indigenous 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.240 leaders. And I know about six of the others on 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:55.379 there. And I know of the others as well. So I've 00:11:55.379 --> 00:11:57.519 had longtime relationships with these leaders. 00:11:57.860 --> 00:12:00.159 It was quite striking, actually, when I looked 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.000 at when the list did come out after I said, you 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.379 don't know who you're going to the table with. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:06.500 And the list came out and I'm kind of an outlier 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:10.539 here because these are strong political leaders, 00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:14.360 but they're also strong business. leaders, which 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:16.919 is great. I'm very hopeful. So you're absolutely 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.059 right, Rob. There isn't a terms of reference 00:12:19.059 --> 00:12:21.059 that has been developed for this. We're still 00:12:21.059 --> 00:12:23.639 working through it. I had a great call with Don 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:28.360 Farrell, who's the leader, the CEO of the major 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.899 projects office. So we had a call the other day. 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.399 We're really excited about it. Can you maybe 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:36.559 just step back, because all of us associated 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.840 with Canada are very clear about what's going 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.659 on, and just again reinforce this came result 00:12:41.659 --> 00:12:44.679 from Bill C -5 and what the major projects office, 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:47.500 because you're mentioning the leader of the offices 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:51.679 in Calgary, and just step back to set the frame 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.799 and complement what Rob's already said, because 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.960 it is important. It is critically important. 00:12:58.179 --> 00:13:00.360 You know, we talk about Bill C -5 and that's 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.960 the federal legislation around a one -stop shop, 00:13:04.059 --> 00:13:06.720 so to speak, on getting major projects developed 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:11.679 in Canada, major infrastructure projects. When 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.879 that came out, First Nations particularly were 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.600 very concerned. um about this the questions around 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.620 is this going are they trying to skip around 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:26.600 our rights so everybody from outside of canada 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.559 needs to understand our constitutionally protected 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.419 rights in section 32 of our constitution is is 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:36.710 very strong We've been fighting for our rights 00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:40.470 for decades. And at the end of the day, quite 00:13:40.470 --> 00:13:43.830 frankly, projects don't get developed in the 00:13:43.830 --> 00:13:46.269 country without meaningful engagement and participation. 00:13:46.549 --> 00:13:49.830 And we can get into that, what that looks like 00:13:49.830 --> 00:13:55.690 with communities. Communities have a strong say 00:13:55.690 --> 00:13:58.450 in the way that resource development and anything 00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:02.820 that impacts our lands and our rights. Get done. 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.179 So when Bill C -5 came out, it was certainly 00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:09.860 a rocky start. A lot of pushback from communities 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:13.980 across the country. But also, there are a lot 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.460 of communities that have seen great success. 00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:18.860 And we can talk about this. Billions of dollars 00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:21.879 of projects have been developed in concert with 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:25.529 Indigenous communities, First Nations. Métis 00:14:25.529 --> 00:14:28.529 and Inuit, and those three groups make up the 00:14:28.529 --> 00:14:30.509 Indigenous population in Canada, First Nations 00:14:30.509 --> 00:14:33.970 being the largest portion of that group and very 00:14:33.970 --> 00:14:37.309 strong rights. So there have been multi -billion 00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:39.070 dollar deals already done in this country. So 00:14:39.070 --> 00:14:40.750 we've got many of the ingredients of how this 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:44.289 is done. And certainly there are examples and 00:14:44.289 --> 00:14:46.649 there are communities that are ready to go now 00:14:46.649 --> 00:14:49.289 and are excited about this major projects office, 00:14:49.450 --> 00:14:54.959 which has been established to help set up. the 00:14:54.959 --> 00:14:59.919 thinking, the practices, the relationships, cultural 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:04.399 comes to mind as well on how we're going to succeed 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.159 together. And so this major projects office, 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.340 which is held, it's a prime minister appointment, 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:14.600 Dawn Farrell, who's an extraordinary leader. 00:15:14.659 --> 00:15:19.279 Her last big job was the Trans Mountain. um pipeline 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.299 and you know getting that done with communities 00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:24.460 so she's a woman that knows how to get work done 00:15:24.460 --> 00:15:28.580 and so this indigenous advisory council is part 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:31.860 of the major projects office to help advise her 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:35.320 and you know essentially the prime minister on 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:40.509 how to best move forward in in establishing projects 00:15:40.509 --> 00:15:44.090 and getting them done. Again, terms of reference 00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:47.330 are still coming out. And by no means do we have 00:15:47.330 --> 00:15:49.370 any decision -making power. Rob, you had mentioned 00:15:49.370 --> 00:15:52.830 about approving. We don't approve. We're not 00:15:52.830 --> 00:15:55.169 going to approve. We're not going to veto. We're 00:15:55.169 --> 00:15:58.649 there to advise. And what I love about this group 00:15:58.649 --> 00:16:00.830 of leaders is that we all don't think the same. 00:16:01.210 --> 00:16:05.409 We come from different... geographic regions, 00:16:05.549 --> 00:16:10.210 different socioeconomic backgrounds across this 00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:13.850 country. Every province and territory operate 00:16:13.850 --> 00:16:17.129 a little differently. So it's going to be a colorful 00:16:17.129 --> 00:16:20.690 conversation. But I know the big brains with 00:16:20.690 --> 00:16:22.870 tons of experience at the table are going to 00:16:22.870 --> 00:16:25.649 be a huge asset to the Major Projects Office 00:16:25.649 --> 00:16:28.659 to help. understand how we're going to move projects 00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:30.919 forward. And, you know, the first five have come 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.620 out to mining. We've got Kitimat 2 .0. We've 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:38.899 got Darlington SMRs and then the port in Montreal. 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.980 So, you know, a great slate of projects. I think 00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:44.159 these ones have got a lot of support. We're going 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.320 to weigh in and we're going to help advise. It's 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.440 going to be interesting. I will say this as well. 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:54.019 Since the appointment got announced last week, 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:57.909 my phone has blown up. emails, calls from chiefs, 00:16:57.909 --> 00:17:00.529 leaders, allies. And I tell you, it's always 00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:04.170 the silent majority of nations that are pretty 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:06.529 excited about these types of activities. And 00:17:06.529 --> 00:17:11.089 there's a very vocal minority, I believe, again, 00:17:11.130 --> 00:17:13.450 this is just my own opinion, that definitely 00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:15.890 seem to soak up a lot of the oxygen in the room. 00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:19.829 But both are really important. This is important 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:22.069 that we have the discourse as well to make sure 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:25.529 that we get things right. It's going to be an 00:17:25.529 --> 00:17:28.869 extraordinary time. It's a two -year appointment, 00:17:29.170 --> 00:17:33.269 and I'm grateful to be at the table. Yeah, my 00:17:33.269 --> 00:17:36.250 take on the Indigenous communities' reaction 00:17:36.250 --> 00:17:40.509 is very similar, JP. There's some valid concerns 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:44.809 about process and how the initiative was kicked 00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:48.869 off, but the business people and the people I 00:17:48.869 --> 00:17:51.250 speak to within Indigenous communities want to 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:55.549 get on with testing. this new initiative and 00:17:55.549 --> 00:17:58.630 testing whether the government is genuine about 00:17:58.630 --> 00:18:03.349 their intentions. And what I've said to people 00:18:03.349 --> 00:18:06.029 is, even if there were flaws in the process, 00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:09.410 even if the legislation could have been more 00:18:09.410 --> 00:18:13.029 explicit or better, the fact is Indigenous people 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:17.190 have so much leverage now. These projects cannot 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.009 get done in our territories without a meaningful... 00:18:22.580 --> 00:18:25.740 And so we've got an opportunity to shape what 00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:29.420 that involvement looks like now. Yeah, and if 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:32.519 I can build on that involvement, it's incredible. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.000 In Canada in the last, I guess the first, I guess 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.819 Ontario had a loan guarantee for the energy programs 00:18:39.819 --> 00:18:42.619 years ago, but it wasn't very well known and 00:18:42.619 --> 00:18:46.009 well accessed. um they've since bolstered that 00:18:46.009 --> 00:18:47.710 program but the one that's been most successful 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:49.450 in the country now is the alberta indigenous 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:52.589 opportunities corp run by my friend channa and 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:55.690 you know channa is a great leader and you know 00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:58.349 hundreds of millions of dollars have been um 00:18:58.349 --> 00:19:02.740 allocated to nations to to be part of major projects. 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:04.940 And it's extraordinary. Now the federal government 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:09.480 has a $10 billion loan guarantee program to support 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:13.319 Indigenous communities' equity in projects. You 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.900 know, it's sometimes said, you know, equity to 00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:19.859 date is kind of the purest form of consent. And 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:21.500 I know it's a little bit of a controversial statement. 00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:24.589 But I believe that, you know, if communities 00:19:24.589 --> 00:19:28.690 are going to buy into projects, it is a strong 00:19:28.690 --> 00:19:30.549 statement saying, OK, we're going to buy in. 00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:33.650 But it doesn't negate the, you know, the really 00:19:33.650 --> 00:19:36.589 important part about looking after the land as 00:19:36.589 --> 00:19:39.549 we develop. I told you my background. I tell 00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:41.109 you, if somebody wants to mess around with my 00:19:41.109 --> 00:19:43.769 moose hunting areas or territories that are important 00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:45.849 to our elders, you know, we're going to be in 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:47.890 for a fight. It's just we're not going to give 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:50.009 up our thousands of years of knowledge and experience 00:19:50.009 --> 00:19:53.089 and importance and connection to the land. But 00:19:53.089 --> 00:19:54.650 that doesn't mean that we can't go ahead and 00:19:54.650 --> 00:19:56.329 develop parts of the land as well. We've got 00:19:56.329 --> 00:19:58.289 hydro facility projects in my communities. We've 00:19:58.289 --> 00:20:00.690 got forestry. We manage 100 % of the forest. 00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:04.750 We've got biogasification projects. There's more 00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:07.529 energy projects, dams coming. You know, we're 00:20:07.529 --> 00:20:11.589 open to those opportunities. But the other thing, 00:20:11.589 --> 00:20:14.140 like what this looks like is... How many jobs 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:15.880 are we? What kind of training activities? What 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:17.759 are the procurement opportunities? Back to, you 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.259 know, the importance of supply chain and Indigenous 00:20:20.259 --> 00:20:22.460 entrepreneurs and that. What are we going to 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:24.299 do to empower our communities? Because we're 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.799 not going to sit on the outside anymore. Long 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:28.640 gone are the days that a company is going to 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.779 come in, engineer the heck out of a project, 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.380 come and go, what do you think, First Nations? 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:34.680 We're going to say out the back door, you did 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:36.779 not consult us. You did not engage us at the 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:38.980 beginning. You have no idea if this makes sense 00:20:38.980 --> 00:20:42.579 to our community. Get out of here. But if they're 00:20:42.579 --> 00:20:44.299 going to come to the table at the front end, 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.380 and that's a big part of this process to go, 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:50.119 let's make, let's figure this out together. What, 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:54.799 how do you want to participate? And so, you know, 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:58.500 the shaping of our future now is inclusive of 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:01.740 Indigenous people. And that excites me. So do 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.160 you think with a major projects office, and the 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.059 first five projects have been announced, they're 00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:09.750 more than shovel ready. Some are. you know, well 00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:14.029 on their way. Is it giving a focus on these big 00:21:14.029 --> 00:21:16.650 projects? Because whether the major projects 00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:18.390 office is set up or not, the Indigenous people 00:21:18.390 --> 00:21:20.809 have their rights and how you've articulated 00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:24.170 want to develop is going to happen. What is the 00:21:24.170 --> 00:21:28.769 benefit for the First Nations and Inuit and the 00:21:28.769 --> 00:21:33.230 Métis with this focus on these big projects for 00:21:33.230 --> 00:21:36.430 the country? Well, that's a great question. And 00:21:36.430 --> 00:21:39.390 I think like any It doesn't matter what we talk 00:21:39.390 --> 00:21:42.150 about as human beings. If we don't see ourselves 00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:47.049 in an environment, we're going to be very cautious 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:49.210 to approach because we don't know if it's possible 00:21:49.210 --> 00:21:52.150 because it hasn't been achieved yet. And so it's 00:21:52.150 --> 00:21:56.630 hard to understand how to create those opportunities 00:21:56.630 --> 00:21:59.809 without seeing ourselves there. In Canada, there 00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:03.789 are many opportunities or success examples where 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.049 First Nations, Métis and Inuit are fully in the 00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:11.450 mix. Owning projects, land oversight, jobs, strong 00:22:11.450 --> 00:22:13.609 procurement, billions of dollars being spent 00:22:13.609 --> 00:22:17.809 on Indigenous entrepreneurs. And so having these 00:22:17.809 --> 00:22:22.049 projects that are more shovel -ready than others 00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:27.440 to inspire. Indigenous communities to go, hey, 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.880 we are at the table and we are benefiting. That's 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.759 really important. Let me take Enbridge for an 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.220 example. I can't say enough great things about 00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:37.140 what they've been achieving lately, both in Alberta 00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:43.920 with the 24 nations and Métis 26 nations in Alberta 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.980 on a billion plus dollar project. Mind you, the 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:51.240 infrastructure was already in place. But again, 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.539 it shows the willingness of Enbridge to walk. 00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:58.309 In the most recent one, the 37 nations in Alberta, 00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:01.869 pre -existing but also future opportunities for 00:23:01.869 --> 00:23:04.930 ownership and infrastructure, again, shows that 00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:09.349 this is possible. And to get 37, I believe it's 00:23:09.349 --> 00:23:12.690 37 First Nations on the table with a pipeline 00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:17.369 in BC, I mean, that's incredible. So we need 00:23:17.369 --> 00:23:19.569 to be able to showcase these opportunities. Or, 00:23:19.630 --> 00:23:21.789 you know, Chief Terence Paul is on this advisory 00:23:21.789 --> 00:23:24.390 committee as well. And I've known the chief for 00:23:24.390 --> 00:23:27.490 many years. We celebrate him at CCAB and an extraordinary 00:23:27.490 --> 00:23:31.170 leader. You know, Canadians and I hope folks 00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:35.130 over the pond as well in Europe understand that 00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:39.250 just because First Nations people. are going 00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.269 to start asserting our rights into major projects 00:23:42.269 --> 00:23:45.049 and the way that we do development on the land, 00:23:45.150 --> 00:23:47.890 it doesn't mean that things are going to stop. 00:23:47.930 --> 00:23:49.690 It actually means we're going to do things better. 00:23:50.329 --> 00:23:52.490 It actually means that we're going to have better 00:23:52.490 --> 00:23:54.410 land oversight because these are our territories. 00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:56.549 We're going to make sure it's done to the highest 00:23:56.549 --> 00:23:58.569 standards. We're going to try to protect our 00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:01.289 water as much as we possibly can and the lands 00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:05.609 and the air. So we need to create that space 00:24:05.609 --> 00:24:08.809 and place where this is possible. And it is possible 00:24:08.809 --> 00:24:10.750 because we've done it. We just need more of it 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:13.470 and we need to get better at it. Hear, hear. 00:24:15.009 --> 00:24:18.250 We've talked about some of your board roles and 00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:21.349 advisory committee roles, but what are you doing 00:24:21.349 --> 00:24:23.769 on a day -to -day basis? Tell us a little bit 00:24:23.769 --> 00:24:28.430 about your Immaculate Consulting. Yeah, thanks, 00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:31.410 Rob. Well, you know, it was interesting. I think 00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:33.450 I shared the story with you. You know, when I 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:35.809 left CCAB, the Canadian Council for what's now 00:24:35.809 --> 00:24:38.970 known as Indigenous Business, my good friends, 00:24:39.009 --> 00:24:41.190 Dave and Nicole Boucher, who are an incredible 00:24:41.190 --> 00:24:44.049 power couple in northern Alberta, they're in 00:24:44.049 --> 00:24:46.410 the oil site services. At the time, they offered 00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:48.990 me their CEO role for a family business. At the 00:24:48.990 --> 00:24:52.529 time, it was a $150 million company and over 00:24:52.529 --> 00:24:54.930 a thousand employees. And I was really excited 00:24:54.930 --> 00:24:57.819 about it. march 2020 and we know what was going 00:24:57.819 --> 00:25:02.000 on oil tanked and and covet exploded and nicole 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.539 and i had to have the tough conversation um about 00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:07.420 um not being able to take me on because they 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:10.059 were laying off 500 people the next monday uh 00:25:10.059 --> 00:25:11.799 it was a tough time for me as you might imagine 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.440 all of a sudden i've got no job my apartment 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:16.799 was packed up and i had nowhere to live and i 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.960 had a little suitcase to my name going holy smokes 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.160 what am i gonna do now it was Also a time to 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.259 kind of reset what I wanted to do next. And so, 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:29.059 you know, the Suncor board came calling. And, 00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:31.380 you know, a few other passion projects started 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:32.900 coming. I said, oh, this is great. Maybe I'll 00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:36.000 set up my own firm. It was just a sole proprietorship 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.680 at the time. And then my longtime friend and 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.079 who I worked with at CCAB said, let's start a 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:43.700 company. Like, let's incorporate your company. 00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:46.180 And I said, Max, Max Goudreau is our managing 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:48.670 partner. as a careful jasper because i've been 00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:50.490 saying no to a lot of things i have a nice comfortable 00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:55.509 life balance right now and uh i didn't listen 00:25:55.509 --> 00:25:58.890 and he didn't listen now we're we we are in three 00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:01.150 and a half years since we've incorporated a moquete 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:04.769 it means a bear heart my my my indigenous name 00:26:04.769 --> 00:26:08.509 um We've had over 100 clients. We've got over 00:26:08.509 --> 00:26:11.289 25 people in our organization across the country. 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.390 We do global work. And it's been a remarkable 00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:16.910 journey so far. We've got a great team across 00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:19.670 the country. We're working in pretty much every 00:26:19.670 --> 00:26:23.160 sector that you can think of. From mining, oil, 00:26:23.259 --> 00:26:27.940 gas, forestry, finance, Toronto Pearson Airport. 00:26:28.339 --> 00:26:30.339 We even did some work for A &W and I tried to 00:26:30.339 --> 00:26:32.940 negotiate a lifetime supply of teen burgers, 00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:34.880 but they wouldn't go for that. Oh, that's too 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.460 bad. I wouldn't like to hear about that. A &W 00:26:37.460 --> 00:26:41.839 can't beat it. But, you know, the roles that 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:43.079 I've got right now, it keeps me pretty busy. 00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.920 And that's why Max is the managing partner and 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.619 we're growing the company. But, you know, my 00:26:47.619 --> 00:26:49.880 board role is at the Institute for Corporate 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.220 Directors, Superior Suncor, and then I'm advising 00:26:52.220 --> 00:26:58.279 BHP. and Domtar, and now the major projects office, 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.700 doesn't leave me a whole lot of time to really 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:05.440 dig in too deep. But I do have line of sight 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.420 on our big projects in Mokote, one of our big 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:09.519 clients right now, Farm Credit Canada, great 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:13.180 people in Saskatchewan, looking to help Indigenous 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:15.039 communities across the country. And I really 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:16.779 love that project. I know the team's doing great 00:27:16.779 --> 00:27:18.500 work on it, and I love being a part of that. 00:27:19.230 --> 00:27:22.170 And, you know, we help facilitate and support 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:25.569 events. So our Spark event in Calgary, it's a 00:27:25.569 --> 00:27:28.369 10 of First Nation in November. So it's the first 00:27:28.369 --> 00:27:30.690 inaugural. We're hosting that event. We'd love 00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:33.250 to have you guys there. Come check it out. We've 00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:35.930 got, you know, Rich Kruger, CEO of Suncor. We've 00:27:35.930 --> 00:27:39.289 got Goldie Heider. We've got the ask out to Minister 00:27:39.289 --> 00:27:41.529 Hodgson and others. We hope that they're able 00:27:41.529 --> 00:27:43.289 to come. But it's a great list. So it's about 00:27:43.289 --> 00:27:45.589 convening leadership. It's about convening ideas. 00:27:45.809 --> 00:27:47.970 It's about convening practices to go forward. 00:27:48.829 --> 00:27:51.890 Now, as you get the sense, now is the time. The 00:27:51.890 --> 00:27:54.470 change that's happened in the last 10 years has 00:27:54.470 --> 00:27:57.490 been extraordinary. The next 10 years are going 00:27:57.490 --> 00:28:01.109 to be monumental. It is shifting so fast, and 00:28:01.109 --> 00:28:03.549 we don't have a lot of time as a country to get 00:28:03.549 --> 00:28:08.349 it right. And so all hands on deck. Yes, very 00:28:08.349 --> 00:28:10.950 well articulated. I think there is a huge challenge. 00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:15.210 What do you say for Canada, Indigenous and non 00:28:15.210 --> 00:28:17.730 -Indigenous? What do you say to foreign investors? 00:28:18.890 --> 00:28:20.869 You know, because their perception of the world, 00:28:20.930 --> 00:28:24.049 all our perceptions, the world we knew is no 00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:26.869 longer exists, right? We're now on our way to 00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:31.609 something new. Where do you see Canada in this 00:28:31.609 --> 00:28:35.710 new future of the Western alliance of what remains 00:28:35.710 --> 00:28:39.329 with it or like -minded countries? That's a great 00:28:39.329 --> 00:28:42.430 question. It's a big question. I was part of 00:28:42.430 --> 00:28:45.930 the very first group to go over to the UK. Chief 00:28:45.930 --> 00:28:48.670 Derek Epp, Chief David Jimmy, myself, and a couple 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:51.789 of other leaders. I remember that vision well. 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:55.430 It was great. It was the first time that an indigenous 00:28:55.430 --> 00:29:01.490 -led group came to the UK to talk to investors 00:29:01.490 --> 00:29:05.990 and the miners. And it goes back to my thoughts 00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:10.869 on data. You have to have the most current, robust 00:29:10.869 --> 00:29:15.579 data so that you can make decisions. Remember 00:29:15.579 --> 00:29:19.700 the line the other morning? Capital is lazy. 00:29:21.339 --> 00:29:26.839 Capital doesn't want uncertainty. Capital wants 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:31.000 strong returns with certainty. That's what investors 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:35.799 are looking for. And so you need to connect with 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.400 Indigenous communities. And thank you very much 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.680 for having me on your show here to help communicate 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:44.099 some of the opportunities and challenges to your 00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:49.619 investors. In Canada, we are at a turning point, 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.259 I believe. We're at this inflection point where 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.400 the Indigenous nations, and I think industry 00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:59.259 gets it, government gets it, where in the past, 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:00.799 let me just kind of paint the picture before 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:04.220 where government was very paternalistic. We know 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:07.680 best for First Nations. That's gone out the door. 00:30:07.819 --> 00:30:11.440 Where industry builds projects without us, that's 00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.630 gone out the door. Where we're... have um still 00:30:15.630 --> 00:30:20.190 some trust to trust issues um there's a saying 00:30:20.190 --> 00:30:22.170 building business at the speed of trust here 00:30:22.170 --> 00:30:25.029 with nations um with first nations because we're 00:30:25.029 --> 00:30:28.750 our our immediate reaction to many things is 00:30:28.750 --> 00:30:32.430 to just go no stop um that's starting to shift 00:30:32.430 --> 00:30:35.650 um we've bitten into every green apple and it's 00:30:35.650 --> 00:30:38.470 been sour now we're starting to like we've got 00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:41.480 to kind of put that Okay, this next app we're 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.299 going to bite into is green, but it's going to 00:30:43.299 --> 00:30:45.759 be a sweet one. And so when we come to the table 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:50.660 now as a country, the mindset has to shift. Governments 00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:53.240 need to see, and they are, I believe, the federal 00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:55.380 government starting to see our First Nations 00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:58.059 as nations. So these are government to government 00:30:58.059 --> 00:31:01.079 and how we're going to exist together. Industry 00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:06.859 knows now. that they've got to work with our 00:31:06.859 --> 00:31:10.460 nations and our companies to help build projects 00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:13.220 or they don't get done. I mean, Rob, you conceded 00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:14.960 that as well. Not that conceded is the right 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.380 word, but you fully understand that. And then 00:31:18.380 --> 00:31:20.559 nations, again, we've got to come to the table 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.839 with a new mindset that, and that's the importance 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:27.680 of why having these success projects in the past 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.160 and where we are now. So that we can see that 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:31.900 that next apple we bite into is going to be a 00:31:31.900 --> 00:31:36.700 sweet one. And so to your investors, we're at 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:40.859 that precipice now. I think Canada, Canadians, 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:45.279 that tripartite, you know, the government industry 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:47.960 and First Nations and Indigenous communities 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:53.000 understand the environment shifted. And we've 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.869 got to get this done. There's no more guessing 00:31:55.869 --> 00:31:57.990 anymore. We know what the challenge is. And now 00:31:57.990 --> 00:32:01.089 we've got to apply our best people and knowledge 00:32:01.089 --> 00:32:05.190 and practice to get it done. It's a very important 00:32:05.190 --> 00:32:08.650 point to make, especially to international investors 00:32:08.650 --> 00:32:12.130 or potential joint venture partners who may have 00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:15.809 had some experience in the past trying to get 00:32:15.809 --> 00:32:19.529 things done in Canada. uh and to have a perception 00:32:19.529 --> 00:32:22.549 that indigenous people are against all development 00:32:22.549 --> 00:32:26.490 and so you can't get things done in canada uh 00:32:26.490 --> 00:32:29.490 and they for those who aren't as in tune with 00:32:29.490 --> 00:32:32.529 the changes over the last five to ten years in 00:32:32.529 --> 00:32:36.670 canada i think they would be shocked at uh how 00:32:36.670 --> 00:32:39.069 the landscape has changed and you've described 00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:41.910 it well things are getting done now there's some 00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:46.089 great success stories to point to we do the annual 00:32:46.809 --> 00:32:50.450 investment summit focused on Canadian projects 00:32:50.450 --> 00:32:54.369 with Indigenous people and try to highlight some 00:32:54.369 --> 00:32:57.089 of those investment opportunities as well as 00:32:57.089 --> 00:32:59.930 to guide investors about how to go about engaging 00:32:59.930 --> 00:33:05.650 and getting involved. Absolutely. JP, absolutely 00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:08.549 wonderful to have another in -depth conversation 00:33:08.549 --> 00:33:11.029 with you. I appreciate the perspective you bring 00:33:11.029 --> 00:33:15.309 as a business leader. as well as an Indigenous 00:33:15.309 --> 00:33:20.009 leader and your comments on the future of the 00:33:20.009 --> 00:33:22.730 country and the potential it offers for all Canadians, 00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:24.809 Indigenous and non -Indigenous. Thank you very 00:33:24.809 --> 00:33:28.329 much for joining us today. Yeah, and JP, just 00:33:28.329 --> 00:33:31.690 echo that. Always a pleasure to catch up with 00:33:31.690 --> 00:33:35.490 you and get your insights and thoughts. I really 00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:38.789 enjoyed our conversation. And Yao and Goa for 00:33:38.789 --> 00:33:43.250 taking the time. Miigwech I really appreciate 00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:47.130 the opportunity guys and to any of your subscribers 00:33:47.130 --> 00:33:51.250 please don't be shy reach out to Canadian Indigenous 00:33:51.250 --> 00:33:53.789 leaders to learn more and you know absolutely 00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:56.170 there's a great event coming up in the spring 00:33:56.170 --> 00:34:00.390 next year I'm going to be there so engage with 00:34:00.390 --> 00:34:04.170 us don't be afraid to get your information right 00:34:04.170 --> 00:34:07.369 from the source Canadian government will give 00:34:07.369 --> 00:34:09.369 you one view and industry will give you another. 00:34:09.969 --> 00:34:15.309 But again, good data helps you make good decisions. 00:34:15.409 --> 00:34:19.690 So don't be afraid to reach out. Absolutely. 00:34:19.690 --> 00:34:23.769 Thank you very much. Thanks, guys. Thank you 00:34:23.769 --> 00:34:26.369 to JP Gladu for sharing his insights with us. 00:34:26.429 --> 00:34:29.889 And thank you for viewing and listening. Mark 00:34:29.889 --> 00:34:32.889 your calendars for the upcoming 2026 Summit taking 00:34:32.889 --> 00:34:35.849 place on the 8th of April. Be sure to share, 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:38.050 subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite 00:34:38.050 --> 00:34:40.750 podcast channel. Thanks for listening to Drum 00:34:40.750 --> 00:34:42.289 Beats. Until next time.