WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.050 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:13.169 --> 00:00:16.210 Hi, I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brandt 00:00:16.210 --> 00:00:18.149 and I are today discussing the establishment 00:00:18.149 --> 00:00:20.410 of the Major Projects Office, which will be based 00:00:20.410 --> 00:00:23.429 in Calgary, Alberta, as well as the Indigenous 00:00:23.429 --> 00:00:26.309 Advisory Council and what that means for foreign 00:00:26.309 --> 00:00:29.820 investors. The establishment of the Major Projects 00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:33.859 Office and the IAC is one of the most important 00:00:33.859 --> 00:00:37.399 initiatives of Prime Minister Mark Carney as 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:39.939 he seeks to reposition Canada's trading relationships 00:00:39.939 --> 00:00:44.259 away from its southern neighbor and across the 00:00:44.259 --> 00:00:48.859 world. As important is strengthening the unity 00:00:48.859 --> 00:00:52.640 of the Canadian single market and breaking down 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.679 provincial and territorial boundaries so Canada 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.859 can reach its full potential. for all its citizens, 00:00:59.219 --> 00:01:04.359 Indigenous and non -Indigenous. Good afternoon, 00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:07.540 Rob. Great to see you. I think you're out in 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:10.920 Northern Ontario today. Yeah, good morning, Mark. 00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:16.780 And hello from beautiful Thunder Bay on the north 00:01:16.780 --> 00:01:19.599 shore of Lake Superior. I'm here to talk to a 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.480 group of First Nations about a power project. 00:01:24.819 --> 00:01:29.019 Fantastic. Great Lakes, right? One of the, I 00:01:29.019 --> 00:01:31.799 think, largest freshwater lakes in the world. 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.780 Absolutely. I think that's where it gets its 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.799 name. Wow. It's deep there too. Have you been 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.319 in the water this morning? Not yet. The sun is 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.739 just peaking. It's a beautiful, beautiful city 00:01:45.739 --> 00:01:49.659 on the shores here. And yesterday I had time 00:01:49.659 --> 00:01:55.659 to stop by the Terry Fox Memorial. And pay my 00:01:55.659 --> 00:02:01.640 respects. Yes, very personal for you, given you've 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.459 been chair over here for so long. Yeah, no, and 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:07.939 timely because of the Terry Fox runs over the 00:02:07.939 --> 00:02:11.099 weekend all over Canada and around the world 00:02:11.099 --> 00:02:16.719 in London. There were 1 ,300 or more runners 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:22.419 in Battersea Park, all supporting. fundraising 00:02:22.419 --> 00:02:27.159 for cancer research. And just outside Thunder 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:32.539 Bay is where Terry's Marathon of Hope sadly ended 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:38.360 when he got too ill to continue and he had to 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.620 stop. And so there's a monument at the place 00:02:41.620 --> 00:02:45.719 where he stopped in a beautiful, beautiful setting. 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.879 Wow, I remember growing up as a kid watching. 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:53.900 him run across the country and having to stop 00:02:53.900 --> 00:02:55.840 in Thunder Bay. The whole country was behind 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:01.259 him. So inspiring. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So inspiring. 00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:03.500 And what's really inspiring is it's continued 00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:06.259 so much. And as I alluded to earlier, you spent 00:03:06.259 --> 00:03:10.199 a lot of time in support of Terry Fox Run over 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:11.960 here as well, which you mentioned took place 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:14.219 in Battersea Park. So we're going to try and 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:18.000 include some links to the Terry Fox site over 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.389 here. for our viewer and listeners, for those 00:03:20.389 --> 00:03:23.150 who want to know more about Terry Fox or also 00:03:23.150 --> 00:03:26.449 make a small donation on his behalf. Cancer remains, 00:03:26.689 --> 00:03:30.490 you know, the one disease all of us have been 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:33.590 touched by. So that's great, though, that you're 00:03:33.590 --> 00:03:35.069 up in Thunder Bay and you're working now. Is 00:03:35.069 --> 00:03:37.409 this one of the top five or is it a list of the 00:03:37.409 --> 00:03:40.509 31 projects or is this just one of these great 00:03:40.509 --> 00:03:43.060 projects? Go and get done. Not this particular 00:03:43.060 --> 00:03:47.120 one, but it is part of what goes into and will 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.939 be and is called the Ring of Fire. And there's 00:03:51.939 --> 00:03:54.840 lots of infrastructure needed. I don't think 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.379 a Ring of Fire project has been designated yet, 00:03:57.419 --> 00:04:01.099 but maybe in the next round because there's another 00:04:01.099 --> 00:04:04.819 five or so going to be named apparently in a 00:04:04.819 --> 00:04:08.020 couple months' time. Right. So let's come back 00:04:08.020 --> 00:04:09.780 to some of the announcements that we've had. 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.139 over the past week and that's why I want to catch 00:04:12.139 --> 00:04:15.719 up today in particular because the Indigenous 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.160 Advisory Council has now been set up. Can you 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.139 give us a bit of background again, come back 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:23.800 with what Prime Minister Carney has done but 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:25.720 where the project office has been set up and 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.300 then let's talk through the IAC, some of the 00:04:28.300 --> 00:04:33.170 individuals and what is its real role? Sure. 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:34.949 Well, the announcement of the members of the 00:04:34.949 --> 00:04:39.129 IAC is the latest announcement in a series of 00:04:39.129 --> 00:04:43.310 announcements rolling out the fast track process 00:04:43.310 --> 00:04:47.009 for projects that will be or have been identified 00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:49.410 as being in the national interest in Canada. 00:04:49.850 --> 00:04:53.230 And so we saw earlier in the summer, the office, 00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:57.250 the major projects office being set up and a 00:04:57.250 --> 00:05:01.399 chief executive officer named Don Farrell. and 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:05.680 the office will be located in Calgary. And now 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:10.279 the Indigenous Advisory Council has been named, 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.120 and that council will advise the major projects 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:18.120 office. And it is all part of the rollout of 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:24.899 this new process for fast -tracking and eventually 00:05:24.899 --> 00:05:28.560 approving major projects in Canada. Yes, there 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.740 has been a lot of changes, Rob. And you mentioned 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:33.279 that the project office itself was being set 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:38.319 up in Calgary. Was that a policy move, a political 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.899 move? There's a lot of people in Ottawa who probably 00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:43.660 won't want to move to Calgary, but that's probably 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:45.120 because they've never been there and really don't 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.459 appreciate it. And where is the IAC going to 00:05:48.459 --> 00:05:52.149 be based? Yeah, well, the major projects office 00:05:52.149 --> 00:05:55.370 will be headquartered in Calgary. I mentioned 00:05:55.370 --> 00:05:59.129 Don Farrell, appointed former CEO of Trans Mountain 00:05:59.129 --> 00:06:05.009 Pipeline. So she has oil and gas energy experience. 00:06:05.870 --> 00:06:10.810 She's a Westerner. That may signal where some 00:06:10.810 --> 00:06:15.069 of the priorities of the government may lie. 00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:22.040 And the IAC is... dispersed right around the 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.920 country with representation from First Nations. 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.680 I think of the 10 members or 11 members, seven 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:32.420 are First Nations, two are Inuit and two are 00:06:32.420 --> 00:06:36.379 Métis and coast to coast to coast representation. 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.480 I understand they'll meet at least four times 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:45.079 a year and I haven't seen their terms of reference 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:51.379 yet. to be determined exactly what role they 00:06:51.379 --> 00:06:54.259 will play. They're not going to be selecting 00:06:54.259 --> 00:06:58.060 the projects, and I'm not sure they're advising 00:06:58.060 --> 00:07:03.199 on specific projects, but they will provide advice 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:05.740 from time to time to the major projects office 00:07:05.740 --> 00:07:13.000 on Indigenous policy issues. And so that's what 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.660 I think the role of the IAC will be. Interesting, 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:24.740 because you have over 600 First Nations, Inuit 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:30.279 and Métis as well in Canada. And what was their 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:35.259 view about the IAC being set up? Well, there's 00:07:35.259 --> 00:07:37.920 still a debate within the Indigenous community 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:42.579 about this whole fast track process. I was at 00:07:42.579 --> 00:07:46.250 the Assembly of First Nations National. meeting 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:50.970 in Winnipeg recently and even there there's debate 00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:54.910 about whether the concerns about whether fast 00:07:54.910 --> 00:07:59.310 track process will short circuit consultation 00:07:59.310 --> 00:08:05.970 rights that Indigenous people have fought hard 00:08:05.970 --> 00:08:09.649 for over the years. There's a concern that there'll 00:08:09.649 --> 00:08:16.350 be shortcuts taken. and some of those rights 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:23.230 lost. And so there are those who want the legislation 00:08:23.230 --> 00:08:29.310 to be clearer and they want more explicit consultation 00:08:29.310 --> 00:08:34.750 and veto rights for these major projects. There 00:08:34.750 --> 00:08:38.850 are others who want to get on and believe that 00:08:38.850 --> 00:08:46.250 there's enough leverage. Now, within the existing 00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:48.970 laws, the constitutional rights, other rights, 00:08:49.289 --> 00:08:53.190 the major projects within the territories of 00:08:53.190 --> 00:08:55.990 Indigenous peoples will not be able to be completed 00:08:55.990 --> 00:09:02.029 without a meaningful involvement of those Indigenous 00:09:02.029 --> 00:09:05.210 peoples. It's certainly a change, even with all 00:09:05.210 --> 00:09:09.590 those questions, given this is Prime Minister 00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:13.250 Carney's major initiative. under his leadership 00:09:13.250 --> 00:09:17.269 in terms of changing the direction of the economic 00:09:17.269 --> 00:09:20.549 growth in Canada, not only to continue growing, 00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:24.450 but also who our trading partners are and diversifying 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:28.529 that. There is merit that an Indigenous Advisory 00:09:28.529 --> 00:09:31.029 Council has been set up at all because historically 00:09:31.029 --> 00:09:35.769 that has never happened. The first continental 00:09:35.769 --> 00:09:39.389 railway in North America, many of our listeners 00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:42.820 might not know, is actually... the Canadian railway 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:46.600 that went coast to coast, was not built with 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:49.659 an Indigenous advisory council or participation 00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:53.399 whatsoever. It was there to unite the country, 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:58.899 Poland, British Columbia, to confederation. And 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:02.039 it was a race to get it built against the railway 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:06.620 south of the border. So I think that does, at 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:09.580 least establishing the IAC, says something's 00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:18.100 changed. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:23.879 is a signal of the importance of the viewpoints 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.639 of Indigenous people as we move forward and try 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:32.200 to get these projects completed. And so I and 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:34.460 a lot of others are hoping there's a lot of good 00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:38.419 people on that council. It's got good broad representation. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.679 hopefully they will have an ability to influence 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:49.379 some of the direction of the major projects office 00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:52.820 as it relates to Indigenous people. Yes, and 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:56.259 because also an association such as the Assembly 00:10:56.259 --> 00:11:01.019 of First Nations, even it has issues in terms 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:05.899 of speaking on behalf of all its members all 00:11:05.899 --> 00:11:09.759 the time consistently, right? It's only... And 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.820 part of the challenge when you're managing something 00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:17.960 on that scale with hundreds of nations. Yeah, 00:11:18.019 --> 00:11:20.379 very difficult. Assembly of First Nations is 00:11:20.379 --> 00:11:25.299 an advocacy group. They're not rights holders 00:11:25.299 --> 00:11:31.700 themselves. And trying to get consensus on any 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:37.960 issue is not always easy. From the feedback you've 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:42.019 heard. Do the First Nations have a different 00:11:42.019 --> 00:11:44.840 perspective on the merits of the IAC versus the 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:49.039 Inuit versus the Métis? They've had different 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:53.679 experiences as Canadians. Yeah, they have different 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.059 rights. I mean, all three groups are protected 00:11:56.059 --> 00:11:59.080 under the Constitution, but the Inuit, for example, 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:03.820 have specific self -governing modern agreements. 00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:08.830 First Nations are... split between those who 00:12:08.830 --> 00:12:12.529 have treaty rights as well others have are on 00:12:12.529 --> 00:12:16.269 unceded territories with some of their rights 00:12:16.269 --> 00:12:23.690 still to be determined and and in the meantime 00:12:23.690 --> 00:12:28.389 you have the government under pressure to move 00:12:28.389 --> 00:12:34.029 because i think everybody agrees that the projects 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:38.929 processes have moved too slowly in the past and 00:12:38.929 --> 00:12:42.309 that has discouraged investment in Canada and 00:12:42.309 --> 00:12:46.889 outside of Canada. And so there's, I think, broad 00:12:46.889 --> 00:12:50.929 support for the initiative. There are some issues 00:12:50.929 --> 00:12:53.909 with the process the government went through 00:12:53.909 --> 00:12:57.429 to get legislation passed and whether the legislation 00:12:57.429 --> 00:13:01.470 is perfect. But most people would like to see 00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:06.779 this initiative be successful. Yes. And they 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:09.500 have announced the first five projects, which 00:13:09.500 --> 00:13:11.500 actually aren't new projects. They're already 00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:14.139 on their way, if I understand correctly. Can 00:13:14.139 --> 00:13:18.840 you speak to some of that, Rob? Yeah, I'm sure 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.740 they selected their first announcements. They 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:26.580 want those to be successful. And they've selected 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:30.179 projects that are, for the most part, well on 00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:35.620 their way. to completion or to final finance 00:13:35.620 --> 00:13:40.899 investment decisions and hopefully this new process 00:13:40.899 --> 00:13:46.000 which streamlines decision making and hopefully 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.580 reduces duplication will speed up and give the 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:51.919 final push to some of these projects that they 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:57.659 need to attract investment. All of these projects 00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:02.019 require private investment and private investors 00:14:02.019 --> 00:14:05.960 need the right the right environment to have 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:10.019 confidence to invest yes and if we look at that 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:13.980 process with the major projects office and these 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:15.840 first five and there's a list i think of another 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:20.360 25 at the moment that is circulating in the halls 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.679 of ottawa uh being talked about and everyone's 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.980 trying to get their project on the list because 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:28.340 i think part of the perception is if you're on 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:32.409 the list You might get done quicker, but I'm 00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:33.970 sure there's some people thinking, we don't want 00:14:33.970 --> 00:14:36.690 to be on any list. Let's just get going and do 00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:43.289 what we're doing. Yeah, and if this new process 00:14:43.289 --> 00:14:45.789 works, it begs the question, why can't we do 00:14:45.789 --> 00:14:51.629 it for more? Why so few? But I guess it's a matter 00:14:51.629 --> 00:14:54.049 of resources and priorities. And so if you're 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:56.909 on that list and you get the official designation, 00:14:57.090 --> 00:15:01.639 then maybe your project moves up. on the to -do 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.120 list of the various government agencies that 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.500 have to move to make your project successful. 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.299 And if they can avoid duplication for these types 00:15:13.299 --> 00:15:15.740 of projects, it seems like the federal government 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:18.379 and the provincial government have agreed somewhat 00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:22.740 in how they will reduce duplication because you 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:26.720 sometimes have a federal department and a provincial 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.679 department. with some sort of jurisdiction over 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.539 a project and duplicating reviews and decision 00:15:35.539 --> 00:15:39.980 -making. Environmental assessments is one, right? 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.899 Yeah, that's one. And that's one area where you're 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:46.179 seeing Indigenous people sort of take over those 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:49.960 processes in some cases. They're starting to... 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:55.330 Governments are delegating authority. to Indigenous 00:15:55.330 --> 00:15:57.850 communities to run that process themselves so 00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:02.289 they're completely confident and happy with the 00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:04.809 results and the outcome. And so they should, 00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:08.169 really, wherever anybody lives, you would want 00:16:08.169 --> 00:16:11.090 to be involved in the environmental assessment 00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:14.350 of something that is going to happen in your 00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:16.429 neighbourhood now. In the UK, there's a lot of 00:16:16.429 --> 00:16:19.029 NIMBYism, as you'll recall that word from all 00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:21.529 the time spent here, which has prevented things 00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:24.210 getting blocked. But at the end of the day, the 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:28.250 Indigenous peoples have this right, this constitutional 00:16:28.250 --> 00:16:31.830 right. So it's going to happen whether anybody 00:16:31.830 --> 00:16:36.250 likes it or not. So why not then give them that 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:38.629 responsibility for doing that assessment? I think 00:16:38.629 --> 00:16:41.730 they on the whole would feel a responsibility 00:16:41.730 --> 00:16:43.789 to the country and the province as well that 00:16:43.789 --> 00:16:46.450 they've taken on that ability. I just see that 00:16:46.450 --> 00:16:49.830 as a win -win. Now, of course, if you're a... 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.179 A lobbying firm in Ottawa, that might not be 00:16:52.179 --> 00:16:54.460 such an exciting prospect to know now you have 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:57.320 to travel more and more across the country. But 00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:01.080 that's only good for everybody, I would think. 00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:03.899 Yeah, the more involved the Indigenous communities 00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:06.619 are in projects that are going to affect them, 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.799 whether it's environmental assessments or other 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:13.420 processes, the better. They are the people who 00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:17.420 are going to be most affected if things go wrong. 00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:21.640 The impacts will be directly felt by them, sometimes 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:27.740 for years or generations to come. And so who 00:17:27.740 --> 00:17:31.980 better to assess and think long -term about some 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:35.940 of the impacts of these projects. It's funny, 00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:41.920 I was in Rama, the Chippewas of the Rama First 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.920 Nation just recently for an Indigenous law camp. 00:17:47.269 --> 00:17:52.970 Oh, wow. Also a part of Northern Ontario. Did 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.730 you meet our chief? Chief Ted Williams. Yes. 00:17:56.890 --> 00:18:01.029 Yes. We've spoken to before. Beautiful territory 00:18:01.029 --> 00:18:06.509 on Lake Kuchiching. And there are fishnets, stone 00:18:06.509 --> 00:18:11.230 fishnets in the lake that have been carbon dated 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:16.450 to 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 years ago. Wow. You have 00:18:16.450 --> 00:18:20.450 some idea of how long some of these nations have 00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:26.509 been in their territories. And so they've been 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:28.730 here a long time. They're going to be here a 00:18:28.730 --> 00:18:34.029 long time after. And so they think long -term 00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:39.210 about impacts of projects. Absolutely. So as 00:18:39.210 --> 00:18:42.410 you know, living in the United Kingdom, 1066 00:18:42.410 --> 00:18:45.480 and all that is kind of a... We lost a lot of 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.839 the locals during that time and certainly their 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.539 own authority over the land here. It isn't thought 00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:55.480 of in that way, but it's certainly true. And 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:58.720 what about the provinces and territories? What 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.559 did they think of the initial list? Of course, 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.539 Ring of Fire wasn't on it, as you mentioned. 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:08.119 But were they generally supportive of the initial 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:13.500 five? And how has there been response? Yeah, 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:19.000 I think generally supportive. As we've said, 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.900 these projects are underway for the most part 00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:28.559 and that there is general support for them. I 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.859 think there's some who wish their project had 00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:37.869 been identified, but the... Government has said 00:19:37.869 --> 00:19:39.910 they're going to announce another five or so 00:19:39.910 --> 00:19:42.670 in a couple of months. So hang tight. They won't 00:19:42.670 --> 00:19:45.670 be able to satisfy everybody. As you said, there's 00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:51.549 a list that was leaked of maybe 32 that they're 00:19:51.549 --> 00:19:55.950 apparently in consideration for this national 00:19:55.950 --> 00:20:00.349 interest designation. Five to 10 announced before 00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:04.609 the end of the year and others as they roll out. 00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:08.339 So we'll see. I'm sure they are keenly aware 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:13.819 of wanting to disperse geographically and in 00:20:13.819 --> 00:20:20.839 other ways, these designations. Yes. And I guess 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:23.519 the other news that has come out is there's been 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.539 some recent polling. You know, Canadians, one 00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:29.480 of the reasons Prime Minister Carney, I think, 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:34.839 took the job and certainly got elected, was having 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.130 the... perceived competence and experience to 00:20:38.130 --> 00:20:41.869 deal with our southern neighbor. That issue has 00:20:41.869 --> 00:20:44.690 kind of dropped down a little bit in terms of 00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:48.509 the list, if I understand, because what's now 00:20:48.509 --> 00:20:50.170 happening, these are bread and butter issues. 00:20:50.730 --> 00:20:52.930 Yes, the tariffs are causing problems. Yes, people 00:20:52.930 --> 00:20:55.410 are losing their jobs and the economy is slowing. 00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:58.049 Now people are like, well, that's all great, 00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:01.170 but what are you going to do for me? Which is 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.039 kind of back to normal. Housing costs are still 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.720 high, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What's 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.519 your feeling on the perception of the rights 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.759 of the Indigenous people in that context and 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:18.500 their contribution to these projects going forward? 00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:23.519 Good question. I think the poll, which I saw 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:25.900 headlines, but the poll you were referring to, 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.440 there was some hesitation. I can't remember the 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.029 numbers, but in the population. uh concerned 00:21:32.029 --> 00:21:35.630 about i think projects getting bogged down because 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:38.069 indigenous people wouldn't approve them or we're 00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:43.789 giving too many uh yes too many opportunities 00:21:43.789 --> 00:21:51.470 to to veto projects um i'm not sure to be honest 00:21:51.470 --> 00:21:54.109 i don't know if it's a top but it's a burning 00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:59.099 The fact is the law is what it is, the constitutional 00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:06.079 rights, the case law, other statutory laws, they're 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.839 there and they need to be followed. The treaty 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:14.140 rights are there and need to be followed as well. 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:17.619 Yes. And I certainly think if some people are 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:20.240 unhappy with that, they should actually be speaking 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.200 to their own provincial government and at the 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.279 federal state. Clean up the bureaucracy. Process 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:29.359 things quicker. Because in all honesty, yes, 00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:31.880 the Indigenous rights are there. It's in the 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.339 Constitution. If you really want to make a difference, 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:38.200 get things done. Get the regulatory bodies in 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.380 your province or territory, and at the federal 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:43.619 level, get all that sorted out quickly. Imagine 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:46.599 if Canada was able to eliminate the duplication 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.660 at the national and provincial level. There'd 00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:55.119 be a sea change. in how fast got things done. 00:22:56.859 --> 00:23:01.940 Because there's as much work to be done there 00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:06.740 as there is with the Indigenous nations. Absolutely. 00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:10.099 And I think our Prime Minister appreciates that. 00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:13.039 He comes from finance. He comes from global finance. 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:19.660 He knows how international investors view Canada. 00:23:20.479 --> 00:23:23.619 And he knows the issues that need to be addressed, 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:28.579 whether this government will be successful or 00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:36.019 not. I think everybody applauds the effort. Yes. 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.160 And with this process, the Major Projects Office 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.059 and the IAC set up for a foreign investor that 00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:48.980 we meet with over here, Rob, that we talked to 00:23:48.980 --> 00:23:55.259 over here. And we do as well. How big a factor 00:23:55.259 --> 00:24:00.559 is this whole major projects office and the IEC 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.660 and what's going on there? If anything, it should 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.299 be making Canada a more attractive place because 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:10.359 of the focus on get things done. Absolutely. 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:13.779 I think it hits four international investors. 00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:19.950 I think this is probably the number one. for 00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:23.450 them that might change their view about investing 00:24:23.450 --> 00:24:26.150 in Canada, about the likelihood of success in 00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:30.890 investing in Canada. It's more evidence of the 00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.710 importance of Indigenous peoples and engaging 00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:37.029 with Indigenous communities. I think business 00:24:37.029 --> 00:24:39.750 is already ahead of that curve anyway. I think 00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:43.519 they understand the value that... indigenous 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.000 people bring to their projects. And so it's not 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.440 just a question of what are we, what do we have 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.140 to do to comply with the law? I think more companies 00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:55.839 are appreciating if they want a successful project, 00:24:56.019 --> 00:24:59.220 they need local engagement with the indigenous 00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:03.900 people. Yes. So that, that's kind of, if you're 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.519 a successful company today or you're working 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:09.059 on a project in Canada, you're probably already 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:12.799 working with the indigenous peoples in the. community 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:14.980 concerned and you know the importance of that. 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:17.920 This is just how do you speed up the process 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.059 because they already know the way to succeed 00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:23.619 and businesses want to succeed long -term. With 00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:27.180 the investment in natural resources or hydro 00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:30.940 or energy or all the defense issues now being 00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:33.720 discussed, you want to work with good long -term 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.859 partners and the indigenous people have proven 00:25:35.859 --> 00:25:40.160 that time and time again. So I think for foreign 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.319 investors, international investors, it remains 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:47.019 do what needs to be done. Do your homework. Get 00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:52.759 engaged early. And you will have the best opportunity 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.660 to succeed. But there will be a budget this autumn. 00:25:58.339 --> 00:26:02.220 It's been identified. Carney has said that we're 00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:06.460 going to run a deficit to get a lot of this necessary 00:26:06.460 --> 00:26:10.079 investment done. which again reinforces Canada 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.880 has a strong balance sheet. If you look at it 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.460 and share it, that is percent of GDP. Even though 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:19.160 there's been a lot of spending in the past few 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.960 years, Canada still is in a very good position 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:26.799 for long -term investments. So if they're made 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:31.279 in the right place on infrastructure and natural 00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:34.579 resources and energy, that's all good for the 00:26:34.579 --> 00:26:38.750 economy and for investors. Defense investments. 00:26:39.569 --> 00:26:45.950 We live in troubled times. And defense brings 00:26:45.950 --> 00:26:48.869 good jobs. Of course, you don't want to have 00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:53.150 to use it. But if you don't have it, you're going 00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:55.589 to be in a desperate spot. So I think that's 00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:58.710 even more positive for foreign investors looking 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:02.950 that Canada is finally starting to really be 00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:06.450 serious about what needs to be done. to secure 00:27:06.450 --> 00:27:08.950 its place, not only in North America, given the 00:27:08.950 --> 00:27:11.829 southern neighbor, but also its place in the 00:27:11.829 --> 00:27:14.529 world and make a stronger contribution to NATO, 00:27:14.650 --> 00:27:19.410 to the Arctic. New icebreakers are coming, have 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:21.410 been commissioned, which is all great. So it 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:25.809 looks like a lot going on, Rob. So look forward. 00:27:25.869 --> 00:27:28.910 You're on your way to when this gets released 00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:32.559 on Thursday. You'll be here in London again, 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.559 which will be wonderful. I'll be back in the 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:36.480 city of London, yes. I'm looking forward to catching 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.660 up, Mark. Great. Okay, Rob. Super. Enjoy the 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:42.799 rest of your time in Thunder Bay, a great place, 00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:45.799 and look forward to seeing you later in the week. 00:27:47.299 --> 00:27:52.619 Sounds great. Thank you for joining Rob and I 00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:54.859 today on a special podcast where we discussed 00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:56.900 an issue of critical importance for our listeners 00:27:56.900 --> 00:27:59.920 and viewers. Mark your calendars for the upcoming 00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:02.940 2026 Summit taking place on the 8th of April. 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.039 Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:08.900 on your favorite podcast channel. Thanks for 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:11.059 listening to Drumbeats. Until next time.