WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.710 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.990 --> 00:00:15.830 I'm Mark McNacken. My co -hosts, Robert Branton, 00:00:15.910 --> 00:00:19.670 are joined today by Michael Bonshor, CPA, CMA, 00:00:19.850 --> 00:00:22.829 and the newly appointed board chair of the Canadian 00:00:22.829 --> 00:00:25.829 Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation. Michael 00:00:25.829 --> 00:00:28.510 brings over two decades of experience in Indigenous 00:00:28.510 --> 00:00:32.090 economic development. He is going to discuss 00:00:32.090 --> 00:00:34.350 the historic creation of the Canadian Indigenous 00:00:34.350 --> 00:00:37.829 Loan Guarantee Corporation, which addresses a 00:00:37.829 --> 00:00:40.469 long -standing challenge that has persisted for 00:00:40.469 --> 00:00:44.189 years, Indigenous nations' inability to access 00:00:44.189 --> 00:00:47.170 affordable capital for economic opportunities 00:00:47.170 --> 00:00:50.969 in their territories. One of Prime Minister Mark 00:00:50.969 --> 00:00:54.119 Carney's first acts doubled the fund from $5 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.119 billion to $10 billion, and expanded its mandate 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.320 from natural resources and energy to cover all 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.659 sectors except gaming. With research suggesting 00:01:03.659 --> 00:01:07.379 actual capital needs approach $100 billion, and 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:09.939 with one deal already completed and 40 applications 00:01:09.939 --> 00:01:13.439 received, Michael will share his insights into 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.120 this transformative funding mechanism and its 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:19.359 potential to redefine Indigenous economic participation 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:26.329 across Canada. Michael Bonshaw, welcome to the 00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:28.930 Drumbeats podcast. Great to have you with us. 00:01:30.150 --> 00:01:32.950 Thanks for having me. Yes, great to have you 00:01:32.950 --> 00:01:35.730 here with us, Michael. And it was great to see 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:40.170 you a few weeks ago in London. Very nice. Yes, 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:43.390 I brought the good weather with me. Yes, now 00:01:43.390 --> 00:01:46.730 it's gone. Okay, typical English weather. Everyone's 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:48.530 complaining about the heat and now it's back 00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:51.459 to normal. What time is it? Oh, it's sunny. Oh, 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:54.120 an hour later, it's raining. So don't you miss 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:57.620 those days, Rob? Not really. A little bit. There's 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:00.840 lots of things I miss about the UK and London. 00:02:02.099 --> 00:02:06.280 Things like Chelsea football club. Rain isn't 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:10.800 one of them, though. Yes. Michael, those meetings 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.120 that Mark referred to were interesting. Canada 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:19.090 House convened in Foran. UK -based investors 00:02:19.090 --> 00:02:23.729 and invited a few of us over to talk to them. 00:02:23.770 --> 00:02:26.110 Why don't you tell us about that experience? 00:02:28.610 --> 00:02:32.909 Well, I think I was encouraged by the discussion, 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:36.169 but also the fact that Canada always took it 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:40.689 as an opportunity to do. And as Canada's looking 00:02:40.689 --> 00:02:45.409 to expand its partnerships around the world and 00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:50.520 Western Europe. And considering that inviting 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:52.780 First Nations to be part of that conversation 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:56.039 is really important and really can't be understated 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.979 because we haven't always been considered to 00:02:59.979 --> 00:03:02.659 be part of those conversations in the past at 00:03:02.659 --> 00:03:05.479 that level. So from that standpoint, it was a 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:08.020 good, and the work that you guys are doing with 00:03:08.020 --> 00:03:11.659 your annual gathering is really testament to 00:03:11.659 --> 00:03:16.469 how things have changed over the years. Canada's 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:19.289 relationship with the Indigenous community, First 00:03:19.289 --> 00:03:22.370 Nations and UNMAT is really changing and evolving 00:03:22.370 --> 00:03:26.090 for the most part in a positive way. And those 00:03:26.090 --> 00:03:30.409 are two evidences of that. Yeah, and you were 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:34.090 there as chair with your chairman's hat on the 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:37.469 Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation, 00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:43.919 a brand new corporation with $10 billion. dollars 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.259 to work with. We'll talk a little bit about that. 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.520 Maybe step back and tell us where you're from 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.639 and a bit about your upbringing, your community. 00:03:54.039 --> 00:04:10.860 Sure, I should properly introduce myself. I'm 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:14.120 from the Muscomog Zawadino tribe in the Zawadino 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.199 First Nation, which is sort of on the mainland 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:22.759 coast of British Columbia. And in terms of my 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:27.540 background, my focus the past 20 years or so 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:30.920 has been primarily working with First Nation, 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.160 First Nation governments, First Nations business 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:39.360 interests. And kind of what led me to that was... 00:04:39.819 --> 00:04:45.939 I had finished my 20s, late 20s. I finished my, 00:04:45.939 --> 00:04:50.360 what was a CMA is now a CPA. And I was working 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.560 in industry and I'd wanted to figure out how 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:57.180 I could support our communities, how I could 00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:00.319 support working with First Nations, not really 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.480 having a destination in mind or a target in mind. 00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:06.759 And things were much different back then in terms 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.420 of the opportunities. Which is how I was offered 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:12.060 an opportunity to work with the Bank of Montreal. 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.279 They had opened up a branch on the Tshat Reserve 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.879 on the west coast of Vancouver Island. And Bank 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:23.920 of Montreal, like a lot of the major banks at 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:28.160 that time, were ramping up their First Nations 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.800 efforts. And a fellow I'm sure you know, Ron 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.980 Jameson, was the head of BMO's Indigenous... 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:39.540 It was probably called Aboriginal back then, 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:44.740 banking area. And we're embarking on opening 00:05:44.740 --> 00:05:48.100 up branches on reserve. And so I took one of 00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:51.939 those positions. And it was an excellent learning 00:05:51.939 --> 00:05:55.000 experience in terms of learning about working 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.040 with the community, with the West Coast, the 00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:59.740 First Nations of the West Coast of Inca Grail 00:05:59.740 --> 00:06:02.839 and the New Channel, working in sort of the banking 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:07.439 environments, doing commercial lending. personal 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:09.360 lending and running running a branch i was the 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:12.240 branch manager and so it was a great experience 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.519 and it started with my first exposure to working 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:19.980 working in the space i sort of took that opportunity 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:23.060 and took the learnings and kind of made a decision 00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:26.800 that to have what i thought the most amount of 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:32.660 impact and to make a difference was to work more 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:37.379 directly with communities and so i I took a position 00:06:37.379 --> 00:06:40.040 back in the mainland working with a group of 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:42.759 19 First Nations running their development corporation 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:47.259 and their inaugural development corporation for 00:06:47.259 --> 00:06:53.100 a tribe of 24 just about an hour or so east of 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:56.120 Vancouver. And I did that for about five years, 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.839 and it was another really strong learning experience 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.439 in terms of how to work within the governance 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:06.949 of 24 First Nations. 19 that were part of that 00:07:06.949 --> 00:07:09.930 collective and building business and investment 00:07:09.930 --> 00:07:15.589 opportunities. From that context, it was a different 00:07:15.589 --> 00:07:18.269 time. The treaty process had just started up. 00:07:18.350 --> 00:07:21.769 Some landmark Supreme Court cases are just coming 00:07:21.769 --> 00:07:25.370 into play. The Haida, the Tucker River and Tlingit 00:07:25.370 --> 00:07:29.329 cases that were really starting to define sort 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:31.370 of the economic space that First Nations should 00:07:31.370 --> 00:07:35.860 have related to their title and rights. I've 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:38.779 been kind of working in that space in various 00:07:38.779 --> 00:07:42.500 forms ever since, working with some national 00:07:42.500 --> 00:07:46.579 firms, working through my own company, sort of 00:07:46.579 --> 00:07:48.720 as the evolution of First Nations business and 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.040 economic development was growing. So it's increasingly 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:55.040 expanding in terms of the opportunities and the 00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:00.500 scale and the scope. One of my most recent initiatives 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:03.680 work -wise was starting up an association of 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.839 development corporations. So in 2020, I started 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:10.100 an association with three development corporations, 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:14.959 and we're up to just over 90 BC First Nations 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:18.180 -owned development corporations now try to work 00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:22.959 to and work on important issues such as their 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.079 own capacity to govern and manage themselves. 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.540 Working with federal government and provincial 00:08:29.540 --> 00:08:35.120 government to help shape how they work with First 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.820 Nations in terms of providing the economic room 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:40.419 and creating partnerships as well and working 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:43.100 with industry and some new areas like tech and 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:47.379 innovation. So it's all about, I know the term 00:08:47.379 --> 00:08:49.700 economic reconciliation is kind of popular. We've 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:53.000 kind of coined the term, we sort of guided our 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.259 work by calling it economic reconstruction. And 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:00.620 that we really want to instill, in this case, 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.759 BC First Nations into the economic fabric of 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.620 the provincial economy. What's the name of that 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:10.139 organization? The BC First Nations Business Development 00:09:10.139 --> 00:09:14.740 Association, FNBDA. So we're into our fifth year 00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:18.460 now. It's really interesting work that's always 00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:21.639 changing, always growing. We're finding new areas 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:28.299 to grow and develop. Sort of leveraging. Aside 00:09:28.299 --> 00:09:31.179 from doing the work to create the capacity tools 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.279 and create industry and government partnerships, 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.799 it's really about being a venue to bring First 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:38.600 Nations -owned development corporations together 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:42.480 to share their successes, share their issues, 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:46.919 and share their ideas about how to work together. 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:52.019 And that's certainly something that we're seeing 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:54.879 more and more now. groups of First Nations working 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.519 together that maybe haven't worked together before, 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:00.600 because it's one of the strongest ways to leverage 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:04.059 our position, to leverage our economic participation. 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:08.600 All of this time, I've been fortunate to spend 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:12.000 time on a number of boards as well. I sit on 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.940 the National Indigenous Economic Development 00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:17.120 Board, which provides sort of policy advice and 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.240 does some work in and around the federal government. 00:10:21.370 --> 00:10:24.269 And a few inaugural boards in BC as well, one 00:10:24.269 --> 00:10:27.169 related to gaming revenue sharing, one related 00:10:27.169 --> 00:10:32.370 to health. BC First Nations were the first group 00:10:32.370 --> 00:10:34.549 to sort of take over their responsibility of 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:37.389 managing and governing health dollars. And so 00:10:37.389 --> 00:10:40.049 we've got all 204 First Nations working together 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:45.090 on delivering health resources to communities 00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:49.299 and community members. And most recently appointed 00:10:49.299 --> 00:10:52.419 as chair of the Canadian Indigenous Loan Guarantee 00:10:52.419 --> 00:10:56.940 Corporation this past spring, which is a real 00:10:56.940 --> 00:10:59.899 honor and a privilege to be a part of that as 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:03.000 well. Yes, congratulations. And that's the inaugural. 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:05.100 You're the inaugural chair for the organization. 00:11:05.899 --> 00:11:10.379 So you have the joy of setting up the top team. 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:14.820 Yes. How is that progressing? And can you maybe 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:17.559 explain a little bit about C -DEV? Because some 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:19.700 of our listeners and viewers over here in the 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:23.580 UK would not really understand where it sits. 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.379 Yeah, so the Canadian Indigenous Loan Guarantee 00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:31.840 Corporation, CILGC, there's a lot of acronyms 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:36.620 here, but the CILGC is a subsidiary of CDEV, 00:11:36.659 --> 00:11:39.559 which is the Canadian Investments Development 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.990 Corporation. I think that doesn't line up, but 00:11:42.990 --> 00:11:46.409 they're our parent. They're a crown corporation 00:11:46.409 --> 00:11:51.110 as well. They hold, we're one of seven, I think, 00:11:51.110 --> 00:11:55.789 subsidiaries to C -Dev. And so they oversee Trans 00:11:55.789 --> 00:12:00.340 Mountain, the Canada Growth Fund. Anytime, I 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:01.899 guess, they've been around for about 40 years, 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:04.220 I believe. So anytime that the federal government 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:06.679 needs to sort of step into the business ownership 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.980 space, they've used the C -DEV as a vehicle to 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:13.059 do that. And they've chosen C -DEV as, and I'm 00:12:13.059 --> 00:12:15.100 glad they did, they've chosen C -DEV as the vehicle 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:18.679 to help shepherd the development of the CILGC 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.059 as well. So we're kind of going through that. 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:26.809 Sorry, Michael, would you also explain? crown 00:12:26.809 --> 00:12:29.149 corporation it's interesting coming to the uk 00:12:29.149 --> 00:12:31.330 rob you probably felt that same time as well 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:33.789 because in canada we grew up with crown corporations 00:12:33.789 --> 00:12:36.269 everywhere although we have a bit of a virtual 00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:40.590 monarchy and you come over the uk and uh yeah 00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:43.009 so yeah sure certainly thanks thanks mark for 00:12:43.009 --> 00:12:46.070 um for asking me to clarify that so crown corporations 00:12:46.070 --> 00:12:49.649 are essentially companies corporations that are 00:12:49.649 --> 00:12:53.299 owned by the federal government and so There 00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:56.220 are federal crown corporations, and some of our 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:59.320 provinces also have sat on some provincial crown 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.639 corporations as well. And so sometimes the federal 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:04.179 government or the provincial government, they 00:13:04.179 --> 00:13:07.100 choose to do certain aspects of their business 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:09.600 through a separate legal entity. And so they 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.159 set up these separate crown corporations. So 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.360 we're intended to be sort of autonomous bodies. 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:18.259 So we'll have our own board of directors, our 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:21.379 own governance, our own staff, and so on. And 00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:27.059 we'll do... that aspect of work sort of under 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:30.460 the federal government umbrella through C -DEV. 00:13:31.220 --> 00:13:34.840 So what will the new loan guarantee corporation 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:39.580 do, Michael? I know provide guarantees, maybe 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:43.039 some other things, but why was it set up? What 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.500 is the gap in the market? Why does it matter? 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:53.740 Yeah, it's a fair question. The way I see it, 00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:56.399 going back to the cases I referenced earlier, 00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:59.960 the Haida case, Tacky River, Klingit cases, and 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:03.039 other cases that there's been a couple hundred 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.139 cases that First Nations have been successful 00:14:05.139 --> 00:14:08.440 in the Supreme Court. And a lot of them sort 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:13.740 of spell out the existence of an attachment, 00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:18.360 an ownership, and an economic attachment to the 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.389 lands and resources. In some cases, First Nations 00:14:21.389 --> 00:14:31.950 territory. And so one of the hindrances in the 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:33.970 Indigenous communities realizing on that economic 00:14:33.970 --> 00:14:37.350 value has been the lack of affordable capital. 00:14:38.049 --> 00:14:42.590 And so there's been a lot of restrictions in 00:14:42.590 --> 00:14:45.330 place, some brought about by the Indian Act that 00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:49.289 governs First Nations here. in Canada and other 00:14:49.289 --> 00:14:54.789 considerations, capacity, another issue, have 00:14:54.789 --> 00:14:57.470 prohibited First Nations from fully realizing 00:14:57.470 --> 00:14:59.570 the economic value of their attachment to the 00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:02.169 lands and resources in their territory. And so 00:15:02.169 --> 00:15:04.950 where they may have been provided an opportunity 00:15:04.950 --> 00:15:09.830 to be an equity investor in a company or an activity 00:15:09.830 --> 00:15:12.889 in their territory, the cost of the capital was 00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:15.789 prohibited, it was costing them. 10 % to make 00:15:15.789 --> 00:15:19.350 an 8 % return, for example, just in terms of 00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:25.809 simple math. And so the notion of loan guarantees 00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:29.970 has been advocated for a number of years by First 00:15:29.970 --> 00:15:31.909 Nations and Indigenous groups from across the 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:34.830 country to bring down the cost of capital to 00:15:34.830 --> 00:15:38.009 make equity investments where Indigenous communities 00:15:38.009 --> 00:15:41.370 want to be owners in projects and companies in 00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:46.129 their territories more realizable. And so the 00:15:46.129 --> 00:15:50.149 2023 federal budget, Canadian federal budget, 00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:55.470 they earmarked $5 billion to be provided as loan 00:15:55.470 --> 00:16:00.149 guarantees. So it's just this past December that 00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:02.269 the Loan Guarantee Corporation was established. 00:16:02.909 --> 00:16:07.009 So not quite a year. In the spring of this year, 00:16:07.049 --> 00:16:09.730 just in the midst of the transition to the new 00:16:09.730 --> 00:16:12.470 government here, Mark Carney, who became prime 00:16:12.470 --> 00:16:16.500 minister. doubled the fund to $10 billion. The 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:19.279 initial $5 billion was earmarked only for energy 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:23.059 and natural resource projects. The doubling of 00:16:23.059 --> 00:16:26.240 the fund to $10 billion also came with an expansion 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.580 of the mandate as well. So we can provide loan 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:34.179 guarantees to Indigenous groups in almost every 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:37.559 other sector, aside from those two now. And so 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.440 through our working relationship with CDEB and 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.100 the resources made available, Keeping in mind, 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:46.179 we haven't been around for a year yet. We've 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:49.659 already employed 400 million of that to a group 00:16:49.659 --> 00:16:56.460 of 28 First Nations here in BC to take a 12 % 00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:59.940 ownership stake in an Enbridge asset. So it's 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:03.220 really exciting to have started off this way 00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:08.480 already. And so this was infrastructure that 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:11.890 had been... It's exciting from a couple of different 00:17:11.890 --> 00:17:15.009 perspectives. One, this is infrastructure that's 00:17:15.009 --> 00:17:18.309 been sitting in their territories for 40 years, 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.769 and they've had no relationship to it, certainly 00:17:22.769 --> 00:17:24.869 no economic relationship to that infrastructure. 00:17:25.650 --> 00:17:31.009 And now, by coming together, this group of First 00:17:31.009 --> 00:17:34.069 Nations, and as you can, if you can appreciate 00:17:34.069 --> 00:17:36.359 the complexity of it, we're talking. a number 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:38.680 of tribal groups, a number of language groups 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:40.519 from the northeast of British Columbia down to 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:43.660 the Fraser Valley of BC, partnering together, 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.680 working together to come to a solution with an 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.059 industry partner to take an ownership stake in 00:17:50.059 --> 00:17:52.940 that. So communities are going to, and this is 00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:57.720 part of the overarching mandates of CAOGC, is 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.359 to enable loan guarantees that can provide for 00:18:03.959 --> 00:18:06.819 economic benefits at the outset to Indigenous 00:18:06.819 --> 00:18:10.539 investors. And so they'll start to see, so after 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:13.079 40 years of not having any economic relationship 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:16.839 to it, they'll, as soon as it's finalized now, 00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:18.700 they'll start to receive economic benefits almost 00:18:18.700 --> 00:18:22.500 immediately with that investment. So it's an 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:26.779 excellent first model for us, first initiative 00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:28.660 for us, and we're really happy to have been a 00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:32.210 part of it. So under this federal program you 00:18:32.210 --> 00:18:40.210 get private lenders to provide the capital and 00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:43.230 the Canadian government stands behind the nations 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:48.069 who are who are borrowing that capital and with 00:18:48.069 --> 00:18:53.690 that guarantee there's a less risk to the private 00:18:53.690 --> 00:18:59.369 sector lender and so lower interest rate. As 00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:02.170 far as I can tell, there's no limits on where 00:19:02.170 --> 00:19:04.509 that investor has to come from. So it doesn't 00:19:04.509 --> 00:19:10.410 need to be a Canadian lender. It could be a foreign 00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:15.769 -based lender. And the Canadian market, as tight 00:19:15.769 --> 00:19:19.089 as it is for some of these projects, tend to 00:19:19.089 --> 00:19:26.130 be a long -term loan. And our Canadian banks 00:19:26.130 --> 00:19:30.089 don't provide long -term. loans for six to seven 00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:33.029 years would be their maximum. And so you have 00:19:33.029 --> 00:19:38.349 life insurance companies who do provide the longer 00:19:38.349 --> 00:19:40.910 term capital, but that's a small market in Canada. 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:43.890 So there's maybe a bit of an opportunity for 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:47.210 foreign lenders who are prepared to lend at longer 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:52.490 terms to be in this market and take advantage 00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:54.569 of some of the guarantee programs like your own. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:01.059 Yeah, and ourselves and other jurisdictions like 00:20:01.059 --> 00:20:04.460 the province of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:08.539 also have loan guarantee programs and regimes 00:20:08.539 --> 00:20:15.759 in place as well. And so I think it's a critically 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.960 important opportunity for the Indigenous community 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.960 in Canada, but I think it's also... interesting 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:25.440 opportunity for the capital markets here in Canada. 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.240 And as you said, overseas as well, having loans 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:34.400 backed by the federal government here or the 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.859 provincial and federal governments here, I think 00:20:36.859 --> 00:20:42.279 results in a really attractive, long -term, stable 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.200 investment for international markets as well. 00:20:47.210 --> 00:20:49.769 And thanks for the work that you guys are doing 00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:54.990 in the UK to help create that awareness and understanding, 00:20:55.089 --> 00:20:56.890 because I think that's where this kind of starts. 00:20:56.950 --> 00:20:59.210 That's where this conversation starts is sort 00:20:59.210 --> 00:21:02.750 of Indigenous communities learning about the 00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:07.589 opportunities outside of Canada and the capital 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:09.589 markets area and areas outside of Canada learning 00:21:09.589 --> 00:21:12.690 a bit about what is this. What is this First 00:21:12.690 --> 00:21:16.369 Nation? What is this Indigenous thing? Because 00:21:16.369 --> 00:21:21.049 I think internationally, Canada is known as obviously 00:21:21.049 --> 00:21:24.150 a stable place to do business, stable investments, 00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:30.950 environments, rich in resources, a stable trade 00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:34.349 partner, and so on. And so I think it's just 00:21:34.349 --> 00:21:36.789 a matter of putting all those pieces together. 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:42.559 Yes, and I think the other thing for our viewers 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:47.759 and listeners is there were treaty rights which 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.680 weren't respected, and then there were areas 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.160 of unceded territory that no treaty had been 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.339 negotiated with, and this is particular in BC. 00:21:56.619 --> 00:22:00.319 But I think the other constraint people may not 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.059 appreciate is that then the infamous Indian Act. 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:07.130 which still exists in some form, put additional 00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:09.109 restraints, and this is where you're coming about 00:22:09.109 --> 00:22:13.529 ability to secure lending against assets, because 00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:17.890 the Indian Act actually prevents lending against 00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:24.130 Indigenous lands. Yeah, I mean, I think the Indigenous 00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:26.490 community here, by and large, has been absent 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:30.069 from the project financing field, has been absent 00:22:30.069 --> 00:22:35.390 from a lot of the opportunities that occur in 00:22:35.390 --> 00:22:38.210 the Canadian and international capital markets 00:22:38.210 --> 00:22:43.190 field. And so, you know, I think here in Canada, 00:22:43.369 --> 00:22:47.549 the indigenous community has been, has found 00:22:47.549 --> 00:22:50.309 innovative ways to make those connections and 00:22:50.309 --> 00:22:53.950 where the loan guarantee corporation is sort 00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:59.789 of one additional tool to, to make, to help make, 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:03.390 enable economic change. Because not just for, 00:23:03.769 --> 00:23:05.869 the Indigenous community, but I think also for 00:23:05.869 --> 00:23:12.910 the broader community, both industry and just 00:23:12.910 --> 00:23:18.369 the Canadian economy in general. If we can enable 00:23:18.369 --> 00:23:21.690 greater investment here, it's going to benefit 00:23:21.690 --> 00:23:24.309 not just the Indigenous community, but everybody. 00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:28.769 Yes, and Prime Minister Carney has just been 00:23:28.769 --> 00:23:32.400 over in Berlin. And he specifically talked about 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.759 the partnership with the Indigenous people to 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.119 make new projects happening. They were talking 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:43.059 particularly about LNG for Germany, as Germany 00:23:43.059 --> 00:23:45.880 came a number of years ago and the government 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.500 wasn't responsive because, well, it's on the 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:50.180 West Coast, and I'm sure there are other issues 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:52.700 as well. But now all those issues are on the 00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:57.859 table with the economic. crisis or opportunity 00:23:57.859 --> 00:24:00.099 that many countries are now facing with the U 00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:02.339 .S. rearranging its trading relationships. I 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:06.319 think the other thing that's important is yourself 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:11.140 and Rob are first generations who are in positions 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.619 of authority. For investors looking at Canada, 00:24:15.819 --> 00:24:18.339 there's a whole new team of people to deal with 00:24:18.339 --> 00:24:21.400 that they couldn't reach before because the frameworks 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:25.200 weren't available. the loan guarantees and the 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:26.980 structure. And you didn't have Indigenous people 00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:30.420 at the table the same way as you are today, being 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:34.039 able to fight and secure the best deal that your 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.519 rights entitle you to, which actually, as you 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.799 mentioned, will present new opportunities, not 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.519 just for the Indigenous people, but for all Canadians 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.400 and foreign investors as well. Because now there 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.279 is a way to get things done because the Indigenous 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.240 people are having their rights. Yeah, there's 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:55.579 a real vested interest in inclusion in these 00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:58.279 conversations and opportunities with the Canadian 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:03.500 Indigenous community. I think the Canadian government 00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:06.480 has been consistent in its messaging and approach 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:14.640 that during this building or rebuilding of Canada's 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.630 economy. building up opportunities, creating 00:25:18.630 --> 00:25:21.130 more self -reliance, self -determination that 00:25:21.130 --> 00:25:23.130 it's going to be done with the Indigenous community. 00:25:23.710 --> 00:25:25.869 And that's not language. Those aren't words that 00:25:25.869 --> 00:25:30.369 we've always heard from provincial or federal 00:25:30.369 --> 00:25:32.950 levels of government. And so it's a real opportunity 00:25:32.950 --> 00:25:39.009 to realize on that and put in place things like 00:25:39.009 --> 00:25:45.549 the Longyear D Corporation, put in place. Indigenous 00:25:45.549 --> 00:25:49.309 voices, as you said, Mark, around the boardroom 00:25:49.309 --> 00:25:52.569 table and leading organizations and so on and 00:25:52.569 --> 00:25:56.390 adding that informed voice of what this means 00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:58.869 and how important it is and the impact it can 00:25:58.869 --> 00:26:03.910 have in Indigenous communities. And so we've 00:26:03.910 --> 00:26:05.470 been trying to rebuild our own economies for 00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:08.910 a long time. And so we're very familiar with 00:26:08.910 --> 00:26:12.329 the approach. We're very familiar with the intent. 00:26:13.150 --> 00:26:17.349 And the contact is a bit bigger now. But I think 00:26:17.349 --> 00:26:19.769 we're very much aligned, First Nations and the 00:26:19.769 --> 00:26:21.569 Indigenous community generally, very much aligned 00:26:21.569 --> 00:26:27.150 with the motivation and sentiment to create economic 00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:29.410 opportunities that are going to benefit people, 00:26:29.609 --> 00:26:33.509 community members, for our own safety and security 00:26:33.509 --> 00:26:38.670 and well -being. Yes, without a doubt. One of 00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:40.670 the other issues that comes back, dealing with 00:26:40.670 --> 00:26:44.809 Canada. as foreign investors is there's different 00:26:44.809 --> 00:26:47.269 levels of government and a lot of players around 00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:51.250 the table. And one of them is also, I call it 00:26:51.250 --> 00:26:54.690 the Canadian Infrastructure Bank. So how will 00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:57.710 you be working or complementing their efforts? 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:01.089 Yeah, that's a good question. So there is a, 00:27:01.210 --> 00:27:05.450 I mean, I like to see it as we're part of the 00:27:05.450 --> 00:27:08.829 larger family of resources available to the Indigenous 00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:12.410 community. Canadian Indigenous Bank, the First 00:27:12.410 --> 00:27:14.349 Nation Fiscal Institutions, like the Financial 00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:16.190 Management Board and the First Nations Finance 00:27:16.190 --> 00:27:21.710 Authority, and ourselves, we're all working towards 00:27:21.710 --> 00:27:25.250 the same end. We're all working towards wealth 00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:29.170 creation and economic sustainability for Indigenous 00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:34.329 communities in Canada. And so we're all structured, 00:27:34.549 --> 00:27:36.190 we're all a little bit different, and we all 00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:38.529 have a little bit different purposes and mandate. 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.480 For instance, the CIB is, as I mentioned in our 00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.900 first loan guarantee example, we're generally 00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:50.380 looking for more projects that are at development 00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:53.500 or latter stage development so that we can enable 00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:57.039 economic benefits to start to flow as soon as 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.440 possible. That may create some timing issues. 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.039 CIB may come in a bit earlier. But I think there's 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.660 ways for us to work together. And so we want 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:16.259 to ensure that projects, these nation -building 00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:19.720 projects, aren't established in such a way that 00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.839 are prohibitive for Indigenous inclusion. And 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:28.140 so we're working. We haven't been in place quite 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.759 a year yet. We're going to have a formal review 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:35.319 in the next year as well to look at our overall 00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:40.440 mandate and structure to ensure that we're being 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.779 as effective as possible, including effective 00:28:43.779 --> 00:28:46.900 as possible in terms of how we work and organize 00:28:46.900 --> 00:28:50.460 ourselves with our other partners. Yeah, you're 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:53.559 a great example of the new tools, as you say, 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:58.029 that are available in any one. trying to compare 00:28:58.029 --> 00:29:03.950 today versus 10 or 15 years ago and asking what 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:07.230 is different about Canadian Indigenous investment 00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:12.769 landscape. It is the tools that you've highlighted 00:29:12.769 --> 00:29:16.009 and the Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program 00:29:16.009 --> 00:29:19.970 is just the latest, but there are many and many 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:23.450 are Indigenous -led like the First Nations Finance 00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:27.579 Authority. and some of the others. Those tools, 00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:32.859 many Indigenous -led, are now available to support 00:29:32.859 --> 00:29:38.680 the financing efforts and allow Indigenous communities 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:43.519 to take their place at the board table. I recall 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.240 a conversation that came up at the High Commission 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.299 in London about, I think, one of the delegates 00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:54.970 were asking about... What are the innovative 00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:00.549 ways in which the Indigenous community can approach 00:30:00.549 --> 00:30:08.009 financing? And as I recall, I think my reply 00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:11.410 was more towards, I think First Nations and the 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:13.190 Indigenous community has been innovative the 00:30:13.190 --> 00:30:17.009 past 15 years, 15, 20 years. We've had to develop 00:30:17.009 --> 00:30:20.049 the structures and develop the approaches to 00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:23.240 be able to meet sort of the... capital market 00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:27.440 standards in the capital market frameworks. And 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.839 so I think the digital community hasn't been 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.220 shy about doing what's necessary to create the 00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:37.099 right structures and solutions to make that happen. 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.099 I think, if I recall, I kind of put the question 00:30:41.099 --> 00:30:44.180 back to them. It's like, what can you be doing 00:30:44.180 --> 00:30:47.710 differently? to meet the needs of the Indigenous 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:51.369 community in these projects here in Canada as 00:30:51.369 --> 00:30:53.490 well so we can meet somewhere in the middle. 00:30:54.109 --> 00:30:59.289 And I think maybe that resonated in terms of, 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:01.829 like I said earlier, it comes with understanding 00:31:01.829 --> 00:31:04.569 first. And so I appreciate that folks have to 00:31:04.569 --> 00:31:06.650 go through a bit of a learning exercise to understand 00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:10.289 what is a CILGC and what is a First Nation versus 00:31:10.289 --> 00:31:12.849 an Inuit community and so on. And people need 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:16.259 to understand those dynamics. With that knowledge, 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.380 how can they augment the approaches and the solutions 00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:22.460 that are developed so that we can continue to 00:31:22.460 --> 00:31:25.880 work and grow together? Your guarantee program 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:30.319 is brand new, one loan deployed. I bet you have 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.140 demand across the country to get involved, but 00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:36.240 provincial loan guarantee programs and other 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.519 supports have been in place over the last 10 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:41.400 years. Do you know if Canadian taxpayers have 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.809 ever had to... phony out that has a loan, has 00:31:45.809 --> 00:31:50.589 a guarantee actually ever been called? No, I 00:31:50.589 --> 00:31:54.049 don't know. I don't think so. Yeah, I think the 00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:57.029 answer is no. Because I've asked that of some 00:31:57.029 --> 00:32:01.849 of the others. And no, there's never been a guarantee 00:32:01.849 --> 00:32:05.529 actually called. These programs have run pretty 00:32:05.529 --> 00:32:09.390 efficiently. A bit of an aside, but I have a... 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:12.799 a friend that operates an Aboriginal capital 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.839 corporation in British Columbia. And he's been 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:18.680 working as their general manager for nearly 30 00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:22.279 years. And he's never called a First Nations 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:25.619 loan. They provide loans to First Nations and 00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:27.819 First Nation entrepreneurs. He's never called 00:32:27.819 --> 00:32:30.619 First Nations loan. He's never had a First Nation 00:32:30.619 --> 00:32:35.000 miss a payment. And so that's without a loan 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.599 guarantee. And so I think... In a lot of cases, 00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:43.799 the Indigenous community and First Nations have 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.259 a unique connection to the business and investment 00:32:47.259 --> 00:32:49.539 opportunities that they pursue. You know, we've 00:32:49.539 --> 00:32:53.220 been here a long time. We expect to be here for 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.660 a long time. And so I think that changes our 00:32:57.660 --> 00:33:01.440 perspective and deepens our commitment to ensuring 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.819 that projects and investments happen successfully. 00:33:07.429 --> 00:33:09.609 Yes, that's quite a story. That's who investors 00:33:09.609 --> 00:33:12.490 want to be dealing with, right? Never had to 00:33:12.490 --> 00:33:17.910 act on a guarantee. People who are going to be 00:33:17.910 --> 00:33:20.549 there for a long time, right? You've been there 00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:23.329 for millennia, tens of thousands of years, and 00:33:23.329 --> 00:33:28.269 will be, I have no doubt. Yeah, to your point, 00:33:28.329 --> 00:33:31.150 to your question, Robert, we have done the one 00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:33.690 transaction already. Keeping in mind, these are 00:33:33.690 --> 00:33:36.720 large. sometimes complex transactions that happen 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.319 that take a while to put together with a number 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.920 of parties. But we've received over 40 applications. 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.740 We're actively involved in over 20 of them now. 00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:50.880 We do expect to do more deals before the end 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.740 of this year. And so we expect to move through 00:33:54.740 --> 00:34:00.299 upwards of over a billion just this fiscal year. 00:34:00.829 --> 00:34:02.890 as we ramp up our team, just based on the level 00:34:02.890 --> 00:34:05.309 of interest and the kinds of conversations we're 00:34:05.309 --> 00:34:08.010 having now. So we're generally pleased with the 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:11.809 amount of progress that we're making. And with 00:34:11.809 --> 00:34:16.309 a multitude of First Nations and groups of First 00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:20.289 Nations, and so I can't understate that in terms 00:34:20.289 --> 00:34:23.510 of the importance of First Nations and Indigenous 00:34:23.510 --> 00:34:25.869 groups working together. It's really impactful. 00:34:27.269 --> 00:34:30.289 We can't really... end the conversation without 00:34:30.289 --> 00:34:33.789 talking about what's your view on the ground 00:34:33.789 --> 00:34:37.510 at the moment with what the next six, 12 months 00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:40.150 are looking like. The Building Canada Act's been 00:34:40.150 --> 00:34:44.409 passed. There's continuing discussions. But what's 00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:49.269 your sense of the way ahead and how the road 00:34:49.269 --> 00:34:51.449 is looking? Yeah, we're going to be announcing 00:34:51.449 --> 00:34:57.460 more guarantees. We're going to be, in very short 00:34:57.460 --> 00:34:59.639 order, we'll be announcing our board or the rest 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.699 of our inaugural board, actively pursuing the 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:08.840 senior leadership team, CEO. And we've been to 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:10.500 build on the resources that we've been leveraging 00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:15.239 through C -DEV. We're going to be actively out 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.119 in the community, understanding where they're 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.260 at, understanding where their opportunities are. 00:35:21.929 --> 00:35:24.130 So we're going to take a real proactive approach 00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:28.869 to establishing those trusting relationships 00:35:28.869 --> 00:35:33.389 with the Indigenous community, with industry, 00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:42.630 with government. And also, the loan guarantees 00:35:42.630 --> 00:35:45.690 and the loan guarantee corporation was put in 00:35:45.690 --> 00:35:50.820 place prior to... A lot of the current discussion 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:53.039 around the nation building initiatives and projects 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.380 of national interest and so on. So we'll work 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:57.679 to find ways to ensure that we're sort of seamlessly 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:02.019 aligned with that work too. And as well as the 00:36:02.019 --> 00:36:04.860 other projects that we're involved in. Our relationship 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:09.019 with the Ministry of Finance in Ottawa is important. 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.719 And six months from now, we'll probably be seeing 00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:17.739 Chelsea lift a trophy or two. And most of us 00:36:17.739 --> 00:36:22.619 will be happy. More trophies for Chelsea. That's 00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:25.280 right. Michael, what do you do in your spare 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:30.340 time? How do you relax? Yeah, speaking of football, 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.380 I still trudge around the soccer field on the 00:36:33.380 --> 00:36:37.920 regular. Although I'm trying to do less of that. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.480 My knees have asked me to do less of that. But 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:45.559 I do like to play a bit of golf this time of 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:50.380 year as well. do a bit of running, try to stay 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:53.199 physically active. It's possible to just sort 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:57.579 of balance things out. And we are, I mentioned 00:36:57.579 --> 00:37:00.320 I was from the Daudian First Nation, Kinkum Inlet, 00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:04.059 and we're really fortunate in that we're a very 00:37:04.059 --> 00:37:08.420 culturally strong community and family. And so 00:37:08.420 --> 00:37:12.219 we've been able to potlatch a couple, three times 00:37:12.219 --> 00:37:16.010 in the recent past. Some of my uncles are putting 00:37:16.010 --> 00:37:18.150 bugs in my ear about we need to do that again 00:37:18.150 --> 00:37:23.230 as they age. And so I look forward to continuing 00:37:23.230 --> 00:37:28.349 to grow and evolve with our family in a cultural 00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:32.269 way too. That's great. And again, historical, 00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:38.510 at one time, potlatch was banned. Yeah, you might 00:37:38.510 --> 00:37:42.389 want to... Our community is so remote that... 00:37:43.090 --> 00:37:46.010 During the ban. It was never banned there. Well, 00:37:46.090 --> 00:37:48.090 it was just such a hard place to get to that 00:37:48.090 --> 00:37:50.550 the government and the government representatives 00:37:50.550 --> 00:37:52.730 were like, do we have to go up there, especially 00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:57.409 it's November? So the end result of that is we 00:37:57.409 --> 00:38:02.110 retained a lot of our cultural strength, our 00:38:02.110 --> 00:38:07.869 family. So we've been fortunate that way. Oh, 00:38:07.889 --> 00:38:13.000 that's great. Robert. Michael, anything we haven't 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:17.579 discussed that you would like to discuss? No, 00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:21.199 I think we covered off a lot of ground. I really 00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:26.420 appreciate the opportunity to share what we're 00:38:26.420 --> 00:38:30.400 doing with the CIOGC and other initiatives that 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:36.739 we're working on. I think the other aspect that 00:38:36.739 --> 00:38:40.389 I didn't touch on. is just the ongoing need for 00:38:40.389 --> 00:38:43.630 solutions related to community capacity. And 00:38:43.630 --> 00:38:48.110 so it's sort of a focus of our business development 00:38:48.110 --> 00:38:50.449 association, but it's also a solution that needs 00:38:50.449 --> 00:38:53.769 to be tied to the loan guarantees as well. There's 00:38:53.769 --> 00:38:56.969 been a lot of focus on sort of transactional 00:38:56.969 --> 00:39:00.150 capacity to make deals happen and so on and hire 00:39:00.150 --> 00:39:02.550 smart people like Rob, but I think we also want 00:39:02.550 --> 00:39:05.099 to do this in a way that... retain some lasting 00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:08.039 capacity in communities so that the economic 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.460 benefits that they garner can be put to additional 00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:13.199 use as they start to come through the community. 00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.539 So I didn't want to miss that opportunity to 00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:20.579 talk about that we're also very mindful of supporting 00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:25.239 Indigenous communities' capacity too. Yes, very 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:28.320 important. Very important. Thank you, Michael, 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.699 for joining us, taking time out. I know it's 00:39:31.699 --> 00:39:37.639 busy times. CILGP and all the other things you're 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:41.659 involved with. So I appreciate taking a bit of 00:39:41.659 --> 00:39:44.880 time to talk to us about. Yeah, Noel, thanks 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:49.340 for having me. And I've had an opportunity to 00:39:49.340 --> 00:39:52.119 listen to most of your episodes, your podcast 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.260 episodes, and I found them really engaging. So 00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:56.820 thanks for the work that you guys are doing as 00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:59.579 well. Thank you, Michael. And thank you for joining 00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:02.519 us today. And we hope to see you at the summit. 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:07.380 in april back in the square mile and please listen 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:13.920 to this podcast for for sure thanks again okay 00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.960 thank you thank you to michael bonchar for sharing 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:20.280 his insights with us and thank you for viewing 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.260 and listening mark your calendars for the upcoming 00:40:23.260 --> 00:40:26.340 2026 summit taking place on the 8th of april 00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:29.400 be sure to share subscribe and leave a review 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.539 on your favorite podcast channel Thanks for listening 00:40:32.539 --> 00:40:34.440 to Drum Beats. Until next time.