WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.100 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.759 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.759 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:11.119 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:15.080 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.899 and I are joined today by Jody Anderson, Vice 00:00:17.899 --> 00:00:20.019 President of Partnership Strategy and Public 00:00:20.019 --> 00:00:22.260 Affairs at the First Nations Finance Authority, 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.059 who's leading groundbreaking work in Indigenous 00:00:25.059 --> 00:00:28.399 -led economic development across Canada. As a 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.039 proud Anishinaabe Kwe from Treaty 3 and member 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:35.200 of Coochie Ching First Nation, Jodi brings a 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.780 unique perspective to bridging Indigenous aspirations 00:00:37.780 --> 00:00:41.320 with mainstream capital markets. Her role at 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.240 FNFA involves designing high -impact initiatives 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:46.780 that unlock capital for First Nations communities, 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:50.079 whilst delivering stable returns for institutional 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:55.640 partners. Welcome to Jodi Anderson, Vice President, 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:57.799 Partnership Strategy and Public Affairs at the 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:03.090 FNFA. Hi, Jodi. Great to see you again. Hi, Mark. 00:01:03.189 --> 00:01:06.450 Hi, Rob. Great to see you both. And thanks for 00:01:06.450 --> 00:01:09.549 having me here today. Thank you very much. We've 00:01:09.549 --> 00:01:11.829 had you at the most recent summit. We saw you 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:14.709 in between there and today back in London. So 00:01:14.709 --> 00:01:16.430 you've been traveling around quite a bit. And 00:01:16.430 --> 00:01:19.870 where are you today, Jodi? I am home here in 00:01:19.870 --> 00:01:21.750 Ottawa on the unceded and surrendered territory 00:01:21.750 --> 00:01:25.790 of the Algonquin people. Well, that'll be a big 00:01:25.790 --> 00:01:29.640 discussion. How is Ottawa Hall? Still unceded 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:33.420 territory, right? That just demonstrates a lot 00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:36.780 of the issues that underline what we're talking 00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:39.159 about today, right? Yes, sir. That's a whole 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:42.840 other can of worms, Mark. Yes, it is. Yes, it 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:46.359 is. Anyway. Jody, tell us a little bit about 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.900 yourself. Lots going on at FNFA. I know you're 00:01:49.900 --> 00:01:53.400 involved in other boards. Charity work is a big 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.939 part of what you do. But first, start by telling 00:01:56.939 --> 00:02:00.040 us. a little bit about your background and how 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.579 you got to SNSA. Thanks, Rob. Yeah, it's an interesting 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:10.439 journey on how I landed here, but one that's 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:14.039 certainly not lost on me, and I reflect on it 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:18.060 quite often. I'm a proud member of Kuchiching 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:21.099 First Nation, which is located in Treaty 3, northwestern 00:02:21.099 --> 00:02:24.360 Ontario, but I grew up in a small town called 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:28.039 Sioux Lookout. which is about four and a half 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:32.460 hours northwest of Thunder Bay. And so that's 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:35.099 the world that I grew up in. Beautiful spot, 00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:39.300 incredible fishing, you know, incredible community 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:43.840 there. And I miss it dearly. Growing up, I always 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:45.740 worked. I worked for the Ministry of Natural 00:02:45.740 --> 00:02:49.819 Resources. I was a radio operator helping the 00:02:49.819 --> 00:02:53.240 teams when there was massive forest fires in 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.620 and around the area. So I spent a lot of time 00:02:56.620 --> 00:03:01.319 out in the bush and out on the land, I guess 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:03.319 is what it was. And that was really something 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.939 that we grew up in and was quite natural to me. 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:10.759 And I thought for the longest time that my career 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.199 journey would lead me down the path to go to 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:18.580 school for forestry and something that was connected 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:22.639 to the land in the late 90s. Mike Harris, who 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.639 was a former premier of Ontario, did a number 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:31.300 of cuts at the provincial level. And forestry 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:33.840 was an area that was impacted significantly. 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:36.860 And I thought, you know, just as I was looking 00:03:36.860 --> 00:03:40.039 at post -secondary schools, maybe I should change 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.020 my mind and look at something different. And 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:47.000 so on a whim, I decided to apply into a business 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:50.840 and commerce program, which I ended up following. 00:03:51.310 --> 00:03:53.330 After working with the Ministry of Natural Resources, 00:03:53.469 --> 00:03:57.610 I was really fortunate enough to be hired by 00:03:57.610 --> 00:04:00.349 CIBC into their Aboriginal Internship Program, 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.569 which is what it was called at the time. And 00:04:03.569 --> 00:04:06.550 so that kind of helped me launch into the banking 00:04:06.550 --> 00:04:10.789 and finance world and really learn more about 00:04:10.789 --> 00:04:14.810 this area of finance, which in my little world 00:04:14.810 --> 00:04:17.529 didn't exist. And banking to me was somewhere 00:04:17.529 --> 00:04:21.509 where you went and did your deposits. you know, 00:04:21.509 --> 00:04:23.769 withdrew money at the ATM. And there wasn't a 00:04:23.769 --> 00:04:26.029 whole lot of knowledge beyond that, though. When 00:04:26.029 --> 00:04:28.329 I was exposed to this world, it was fascinating 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:32.529 to me in terms of the opportunities and, you 00:04:32.529 --> 00:04:35.910 know, the training opportunities and how people 00:04:35.910 --> 00:04:39.129 manage their money, because it was just kind 00:04:39.129 --> 00:04:44.410 of a foreign concept, if you will. And so when 00:04:44.410 --> 00:04:47.930 I went to school, CIBC kept me on. I went to 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:50.899 school in Peterborough, Ontario, which was You 00:04:50.899 --> 00:04:52.959 know, a little bit of a balance between going 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.860 to the big cities, you know, a small town girl 00:04:55.860 --> 00:04:59.040 and still having that bit of a balance of a smaller 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.180 town. And so I was fortunate enough to work with 00:05:02.180 --> 00:05:08.019 CIBC and learn from other managers and mentors 00:05:08.019 --> 00:05:12.439 along the way. And from there, when I graduated. 00:05:13.389 --> 00:05:15.949 I had a choice of going to Toronto or I had a 00:05:15.949 --> 00:05:18.310 choice of going to Ottawa. And I chose Ottawa 00:05:18.310 --> 00:05:20.250 at the time. And I thought, oh, I'll go and try 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:23.470 it for a year and see if I like it. And I was 00:05:23.470 --> 00:05:26.850 hired at the time into the high tech boom was 00:05:26.850 --> 00:05:29.810 going on in Ottawa. And it was exciting. And 00:05:29.810 --> 00:05:32.850 there was lots of things going on. So I followed 00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:36.449 that path and did human resource management at 00:05:36.449 --> 00:05:40.579 a high tech company for a few years. And while 00:05:40.579 --> 00:05:43.199 it was really interesting and I learned a lot 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.720 and worked with some incredibly brilliant people, 00:05:46.860 --> 00:05:51.019 it was a big organization. You know, there was 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:53.600 thousands of people who worked there and sometimes 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:57.899 I felt like a number. And while I enjoyed the 00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:00.720 friendships that I made, I often questioned my 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:06.819 impact on what I was doing. And in 2005, I think. 00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:10.350 I received a call asking if I would be interested 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:14.170 in interviewing for this organization called 00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:16.509 the Aboriginal Financial Officers Association 00:06:16.509 --> 00:06:21.149 of Canada. And I knew nothing about them. And 00:06:21.149 --> 00:06:25.189 I did my homework and I did my research and really 00:06:25.189 --> 00:06:28.129 learned more about what the mandate of that organization 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:31.589 was, including financial literacy and building 00:06:31.589 --> 00:06:36.100 capacity. with Indigenous communities right across 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:38.540 Canada. And I thought, wow, I really like this 00:06:38.540 --> 00:06:41.860 idea. It reconnected me back to my kind of banking 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:45.720 days. And I saw a lot of opportunity. And when 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:50.360 I walked in into that interview, it was Ernie 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:54.180 Daniels who was interviewing me. And that was 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:58.360 20 years ago. 20 years later, I still work under 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:02.620 Ernie's leadership. And he has afforded me great 00:07:02.620 --> 00:07:05.759 opportunities and has been an incredible mentor 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:11.259 in terms of helping me navigate this world in 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:15.360 this community and has been a real beacon of 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.699 light, not just for me, but for many people. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:21.240 And so when Ernie moved to the First Nations 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.100 Finance Authority in 2011, I stayed at AFOA Canada 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:28.920 because he moved out west. And I said, well, 00:07:29.060 --> 00:07:32.069 you know, Keep me in mind. And if you ever expand 00:07:32.069 --> 00:07:35.250 in the East when it's time, don't forget about 00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:38.589 me. And, you know, he went out there. He still 00:07:38.589 --> 00:07:40.610 continued to be a mentor for those seven years. 00:07:40.670 --> 00:07:43.389 And seven years later, he called me up and said, 00:07:43.529 --> 00:07:46.910 do you think you would be open for a change and 00:07:46.910 --> 00:07:50.110 taking on a new challenge? And so we talked about 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:53.250 it and it was fascinating what they were doing. 00:07:53.790 --> 00:07:56.329 It was fascinating around the opportunities. 00:07:57.500 --> 00:08:00.459 And that was seven years ago. And I've been with 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:05.759 the FNFA ever since. Wow. Just have to touch 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:07.500 base. First of all, Ernie Daniels, we've been 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.779 fortunate. He's joined our summit, been on a 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:11.819 previous podcast with us. And he's obviously 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:16.720 one of the leaders in this whole area and a man 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.519 of great reputation and insight and contribution. 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:23.060 And as you said, been a mentor. But I have to 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:24.680 come back. And we've talked about this before. 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:27.319 Whenever you say Sioux Lookout, I just think, 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.740 oh, wow. Because we used to go in the summers 00:08:29.740 --> 00:08:33.240 from Toronto to Manitoba. And we'd drive up through 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.240 northern Ontario to get there. And we used to 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:38.779 go by Sioux Lookout. And it was like, wow, such 00:08:38.779 --> 00:08:41.159 a whole different world. But it's one of those 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.539 great names that resonate. And Rob, I think we're 00:08:43.539 --> 00:08:45.860 very fortunate on this podcast because we get 00:08:45.860 --> 00:08:48.960 so many Canadians, of course, but from all over 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.009 the country and all these names. I'm sure to 00:08:52.009 --> 00:08:55.690 most of our listeners here and in the city of 00:08:55.690 --> 00:08:58.690 London, Sue Lookout, you know, Peterborough would 00:08:58.690 --> 00:09:00.289 ring a bell because there's a Peterborough here 00:09:00.289 --> 00:09:02.549 that I happen to live in, which is different 00:09:02.549 --> 00:09:04.809 than Peterborough there, but Sue Lookout and 00:09:04.809 --> 00:09:07.250 all those places. And it just shows how diverse 00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:10.730 Canada is, you know, and everybody has unique 00:09:10.730 --> 00:09:13.850 experience growing up and your story about how 00:09:13.850 --> 00:09:18.179 you made it to Ottawa. And probably the Senators 00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:20.120 have a greater chance than Leafs of winning the 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.360 Stanley Cup. So it'll probably be another good 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.519 reason to move to Ottawa. But Ottawa is a beautiful 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:28.639 city that was chosen by Queen Victoria as the 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.019 capital, Ottawa Hall, to settle the issue of 00:09:31.019 --> 00:09:33.460 should the capital be in what was Upper Canada 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:37.480 versus Lower Canada. And now you're there working 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:39.879 for the First Nations Financial Authority. That's 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.789 a wonderful story and your career to date. From 00:09:45.789 --> 00:09:49.450 Forestry Capital Markets. Yes. My daughter is 00:09:49.450 --> 00:09:52.049 working in Northern Ontario right now on a big 00:09:52.049 --> 00:09:55.690 forestry project and went to school and studied 00:09:55.690 --> 00:09:59.950 forestry management. We'll be interested to listen 00:09:59.950 --> 00:10:03.549 to your podcast, this podcast and your story. 00:10:03.690 --> 00:10:06.350 Timing is everything. Yes. It's a really interesting 00:10:06.350 --> 00:10:09.250 journey in Northern Ontario at this time of year. 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:13.970 I have some great memories of lakes and time 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:18.429 of the land. Do you get back very often? I know 00:10:18.429 --> 00:10:20.470 you're still involved with Kuchiching First Nation. 00:10:20.690 --> 00:10:24.870 Yes. Yeah, I am, Rob. And I try to get back as 00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:29.110 often as I can, try to participate in as many 00:10:29.110 --> 00:10:33.330 community activities as I can from here. I'm 00:10:33.330 --> 00:10:37.429 a trustee on Kuchiching's Legacy Trust. And so 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:41.769 part of, you know, my mantra is to look at ways 00:10:41.769 --> 00:10:44.789 to give back. How can I connect with my community 00:10:44.789 --> 00:10:47.490 and what value can I bring to the table that 00:10:47.490 --> 00:10:51.889 they're willing and open to receiving? And so 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:56.570 to me, that's capacity in terms of, you know, 00:10:56.570 --> 00:10:59.250 knowledge transfer or helping out wherever I 00:10:59.250 --> 00:11:03.389 can and going back for their powwows. And we 00:11:03.389 --> 00:11:06.049 still have family on reserve. So going to visit 00:11:06.049 --> 00:11:10.879 family, of course, is a wonderful. So whenever 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.379 I get the opportunity to go up north or go home, 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.120 I relish that. And it is truly an incredible, 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:20.000 incredible spot to be. Lake of the Woods and 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.419 Lac Seul. And if you are a person that loves 00:11:23.419 --> 00:11:26.519 to fish, there's no better place in Canada, in 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.259 my opinion. And they're just gems. Gems. That's 00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:33.840 for sure. Can you tell our listeners and viewers 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.779 a little bit about powwows? You've mentioned 00:11:37.779 --> 00:11:40.000 that a week. discussed that before. It's powwow 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.259 season, yeah, summertime. Yes, it is. It's powwow 00:11:44.259 --> 00:11:46.740 season, and you often hear people talking about 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:50.120 the powwow trail and what does that mean, and 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.899 it's really an opportunity for communities to 00:11:53.899 --> 00:11:59.100 celebrate culture and heritage and dance and 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:05.059 movement and the regalia that people spend so 00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:09.570 much time and effort. making and pouring their 00:12:09.570 --> 00:12:13.289 hearts into and ensuring that it's reflective 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:18.049 of who we want to be. There was a time when powwows 00:12:18.049 --> 00:12:22.990 and potlatches were banned from happening under 00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:25.730 the Indian Act. So it's important that we bring 00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:31.629 back and continue to celebrate those sacred ceremonies, 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:36.179 teach our kids to dance. You know, you're never 00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:38.539 too old to dance. I'm trying to learn how to 00:12:38.539 --> 00:12:41.279 dance. Technology has been a wonderful thing 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.539 in terms of people sharing their talents. And 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:51.480 I'm in the process of, you know, making my own 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.059 ribbon skirts now, which is something I didn't 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:57.340 grow up learning how to do. But spending time 00:12:57.340 --> 00:13:01.460 with people from community who can help and guide 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:04.919 and mentor in that specific area, I think is 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:09.519 incredible. But each community tends to have 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.860 an annual powwow where people come home from 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:15.240 all over the place, other communities to celebrate, 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:19.419 visit with families, enter into these dance competitions, 00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:23.809 hearing the drums, hearing the music, etc. It 00:13:23.809 --> 00:13:26.509 really is an incredible time. And you can spend 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:29.230 your entire summer going from community to community, 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:34.809 participating or watching in different powwows. 00:13:34.870 --> 00:13:38.669 And it's truly beautiful. Yeah, I'll be on our 00:13:38.669 --> 00:13:41.889 side of the Nega in just a couple of weeks. Okay. 00:13:42.070 --> 00:13:43.769 A couple of weeks left to keep that in mind. 00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:46.850 Yeah, yeah. And I look forward to connecting, 00:13:47.129 --> 00:13:50.029 seeing family and friends and also the food. 00:13:50.169 --> 00:13:53.559 Don't forget the food. Oh yes, the food is definitely 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:58.340 one of the highlights. I'm envious I'm over in 00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:02.000 London. I'm not sure where I'm going to do, but 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.200 I certainly won't enjoy a powwow like that. That's 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.059 for sure. So why don't we come back a little 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:09.139 bit about First Nations Financial Authority and 00:14:09.139 --> 00:14:12.159 some of your recent achievements. I think you've 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.399 now reached over 2 billion Canadian in financing. 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:19.620 Why don't you give us an update? Three now. Yeah, 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:24.100 we're closing in on four, Mark. Wow. Okay. I've 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:26.700 been behind for a few months. That's okay. That's 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:28.740 okay. Closing in on four. So why don't you tell 00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:31.600 our listeners a little bit again about FNFA and 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.120 where it sits in the framework and how a foreign 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.960 investor or those who have subsidiaries in Canada 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.799 might end up working with either Indigenous nations 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.700 with FNFA or through FNFA. Sure. It's a great 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.159 question. So the First Nations Finance Authority 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.360 is a not -for -profit statutory institution that 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.120 exists under the First Nations Fiscal Management 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.919 Framework, along with three other institutions, 00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:02.759 sister institutions, which we all operate independent 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.690 of one another, but offer tools. and options 00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:10.029 for First Nation communities right now. And right 00:15:10.029 --> 00:15:14.149 now, the mandate of FNFA is really to provide 00:15:14.149 --> 00:15:17.470 short and long -term financing opportunities 00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:22.730 for bands that exist under the Indian Act. We 00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:25.710 also can provide investment options and capital 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:28.730 advisory services to nations that wish to engage. 00:15:29.810 --> 00:15:32.730 Under those kind of three mandate or bullet points, 00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:35.429 there's a number of areas that we work with, 00:15:35.590 --> 00:15:39.470 First Nations right across Canada. And essentially, 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:43.929 nations can come to us either utilizing own source 00:15:43.929 --> 00:15:47.529 revenue that they have existing already to leverage 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:50.730 to access capital through the capital markets. 00:15:51.049 --> 00:15:56.250 And FNFA now has been able to obtain three credit 00:15:56.250 --> 00:16:02.019 rating. opinions from S &P, or Standard & Poor's, 00:16:02.019 --> 00:16:04.500 Moody's Investor Service, as well as Morningstar, 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:08.980 DBRS, which allows us to work within the capital 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:12.879 markets and issue bonds. So what we do is we 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:16.379 have a short -term commercial paper program, 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.080 or if Mark First Nation wants to come to us and 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.909 borrow for a project in their nation. They can 00:16:23.909 --> 00:16:26.570 do so, they can access that capital immediately. 00:16:26.690 --> 00:16:30.830 And once we can build up a number of projects 00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:34.389 and loans, we pool those together and then go 00:16:34.389 --> 00:16:36.610 to the capital markets to sell that debt. And 00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:39.889 we work with institutional investors. We work 00:16:39.889 --> 00:16:43.809 with all of the big five banks, plus some smaller 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:48.899 folks through our banking syndicate. who have 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:52.519 really opened doors for investors right across 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.200 the world now who are buying our debt. And we've 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:58.980 been able to establish an incredible reputation 00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:02.399 and level of comfort with our investors where 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.980 that when we go to issue a bond now, it's oversubscribed. 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:10.259 So there's more buyers than we have debt to sell, 00:17:10.299 --> 00:17:13.140 which, yeah, it's a great signal of comfort in 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:18.259 that. that investors understand what it is that 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:21.299 we're doing. They're very interested in the Indigenous 00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:25.500 market, very interested in, you know, what else 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:32.480 is that investors can do to participate or whether 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.460 it's through their reconciliation strategies 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:39.079 or plans, whether it's a reflection of ESG investing 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:45.529 and performance targets. We're constantly getting 00:17:45.529 --> 00:17:50.549 interest from not just Canadian investors, but 00:17:50.549 --> 00:17:52.869 like I said, from all over the world now, which 00:17:52.869 --> 00:17:59.390 has really allowed us to grow, scale, and pass 00:17:59.390 --> 00:18:02.230 those savings and those benefits over to the 00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:04.349 community. So because we're a not -for -profit, 00:18:04.529 --> 00:18:07.750 we can pass those savings directly over to our 00:18:07.750 --> 00:18:10.289 First Nation members, which is extraordinary. 00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:14.380 So our members are often accessing capital. rates 00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:17.059 well below bank prime or other places that they 00:18:17.059 --> 00:18:21.140 would have been accessing debt historically. 00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:24.680 It's impressive, Jodi. Remind us, what is the 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.319 credit rating these days of your long -term debt? 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:33.359 We're sitting at about a AA and a stable from 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:39.259 Moody's Investor Service and an R1 through our 00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:44.000 commercial paper program, MidStable. And again, 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:49.140 AA with S &P. So we're regarded very stable within 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:52.759 the investment community. We work very closely 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.900 with the credit rating agencies so that we maintain 00:18:56.900 --> 00:19:00.319 that relationship. We're priced very close to 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:05.500 the province of Ontario, which is a great thing 00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:10.119 to be able to say at this point. So we have received 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.509 a number of different credit rating increases. 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:16.970 Even throughout COVID, we actually received a 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:21.289 credit rating increase, which was quite rare 00:19:21.289 --> 00:19:26.250 to see during that time. Well, AA, AA is fantastic. 00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:31.630 That's equivalent to our biggest banks in Canada. 00:19:32.009 --> 00:19:36.809 That's true. Yep. Ratings. That's right. So our 00:19:36.809 --> 00:19:40.609 big boss says that he wants to get to a AAA rating. 00:19:41.389 --> 00:19:43.970 You know, that's what we're trying to achieve 00:19:43.970 --> 00:19:48.650 so our members can enjoy the benefits of cheaper 00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.609 capital. So we're striving to do that with the 00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:56.289 work that we're doing. Just a question, when 00:19:56.289 --> 00:19:59.509 you refer to your members, is this similar to 00:19:59.509 --> 00:20:03.670 a mutual structure or a credit union structure 00:20:03.670 --> 00:20:08.319 or how do First Nations participate? It's a good 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.440 question. So what was very important to our leadership 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.759 when this act was being contemplated and designed 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.339 and the drafting of the legislation was happening 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:22.259 was that this act, although it's federal, was 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:25.569 to never be imposed on any First Nation. And 00:20:25.569 --> 00:20:29.450 it was that it is optional for First Nations 00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:32.269 to participate so they can put their hand up 00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:34.670 and say, yes, I want to be a part of this. But 00:20:34.670 --> 00:20:36.670 they also have the benefit to put their hand 00:20:36.670 --> 00:20:39.230 up and say, this isn't right for me at this time. 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:42.089 We're going to opt out of it so that, you know, 00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:45.890 we're not forcing anybody into this and where 00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:49.630 that this regime actually acts as another tool 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:53.779 in the toolkit that nations can. utilize for 00:20:53.779 --> 00:20:56.920 projects or for other circumstances. And I want 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.880 to be clear because it's not just FNFA and access 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.339 to capital. There's another institution, our 00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:04.460 sister institution, which is the First Nations 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:07.119 Financial Management Board, who works with the 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.619 nations to build capacity. And that's really 00:21:09.619 --> 00:21:12.519 unique in and of itself where that, you know, 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.680 we heard for many years that we were just getting 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.670 consultants or folks coming in and just doing 00:21:18.670 --> 00:21:20.549 the work and leaving. But when they left, our 00:21:20.549 --> 00:21:23.490 communities were still left without the capacity 00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:26.970 to manage. And so that was really important. 00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:30.410 That worked in parallel with the communities 00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:33.009 and meeting communities where they're at to establish 00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:38.009 financial practices and policies and to strengthen 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:40.710 governance and to strengthen their financial 00:21:40.710 --> 00:21:44.549 administration. So that 10, 15 years down the 00:21:44.549 --> 00:21:48.259 road, that capacity. And those tools still existed 00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:53.440 internally for communities to work from. Yes. 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.500 And I remember at the Commonwealth Trade and 00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:57.960 Investment Summit that you attended, Jodi, there 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.019 was a lot of interest in terms of from other 00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:03.339 nations, other members of the Commonwealth. How 00:22:03.339 --> 00:22:05.819 does this work and set up? Everybody was like, 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.980 we want to learn more. So obviously what's been 00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:13.240 achieved is something not just relevant for Canada, 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.970 but other nations as well. Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:16.329 --> 00:22:17.890 And we're getting, you know, this has been a 00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:22.210 really instrumental year in terms of kind of 00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:25.130 breaking into a global stage, if you will, Mark, 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:28.589 and certainly through the investment summit has 00:22:28.589 --> 00:22:33.410 been a catalyst for us for sure. FNFA is unique 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:35.829 where that there's no other institution in the 00:22:35.829 --> 00:22:39.150 world that exists like FNFA and we're getting 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:43.140 calls and requests across the world. to tell 00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:45.240 us, you know, how did you do it? And what can 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.140 we do to get started? And so we've been talking 00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:53.380 with a lot of other nations to help other Indigenous 00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:56.319 communities to look at, okay, this is where we 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.259 started. This is what worked for us. This is 00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:01.240 what we've learned along the way, et cetera, 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:04.940 so that we can see this success, not just within 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:09.559 Canada, but globally. And give us an idea, there's 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:13.440 lots happening at FNFA and you're deploying capital 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.500 loans, you're issuing bonds, but any recent projects 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:22.619 you're most proud of? Yeah, there, well, you 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:23.980 know, the ones that are in the pipe, I can't 00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:26.380 talk about right now, but we'll be hearing about 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:29.000 some more exciting projects coming out very soon. 00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:33.119 But I think that, you know, If I look back and 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.319 reflect on the past seven years, Rob, there's 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.299 been some extraordinary projects that keep getting 00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:44.240 more significant. The small ones are just as 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.259 exciting as the larger ones. And I know people 00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:50.839 talk about the Clearwater transaction. That was 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:56.039 a very big deal and really set the tone for pooling 00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.210 purchasing power right across. And we saw a shift 00:24:00.210 --> 00:24:02.470 after that transaction took place because it 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:05.730 involved a coalition of seven Mi 'kmaq communities 00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:10.789 and one where they could rightfully. get into 00:24:10.789 --> 00:24:14.710 an industry that they had participated in for 00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:18.869 years. So not only was this a financially meaningful 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:22.470 transaction, but it also reflected the values 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:26.849 and the culture of the communities that were 00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:29.089 involved. So that was definitely a big one and 00:24:29.089 --> 00:24:33.309 turned a lot of heads. That was the acquisition 00:24:33.309 --> 00:24:38.890 by the Big Mark Syndicate. a 50 % stake in Clearwater's 00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:43.349 favorite business. That's right. And we helped 00:24:43.349 --> 00:24:47.789 them finance the purchase of, I think it was 00:24:47.789 --> 00:24:51.950 24 lobster licenses, which are as, you know, 00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:55.170 the government isn't issuing licenses anymore. 00:24:55.289 --> 00:24:57.390 You can get into that industry, but you have 00:24:57.390 --> 00:24:59.609 to kind of buy into it. And that's really the 00:24:59.609 --> 00:25:03.150 only way now. So there's significant value in 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:06.769 those licenses. It was transformative for seven 00:25:06.769 --> 00:25:10.589 communities. And at that point, that was during 00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:12.369 COVID. So that was really interesting. And I 00:25:12.369 --> 00:25:16.930 think we issued that transaction and timed it 00:25:16.930 --> 00:25:18.650 in the markets where that community, we could 00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:23.440 lock in a rate for 10 years of 1 .9%. And when 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.359 you're talking, you know, hundreds of millions 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:28.160 of dollars, that's an extraordinary rate that 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.099 I don't know that we'll see again for a very 00:25:30.099 --> 00:25:33.900 long time. So allowing budget certainty for the 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:37.579 communities and access to generational wealth 00:25:37.579 --> 00:25:41.279 and transaction is transformative. But we've 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.359 also taken place or been able to participate 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:50.319 in the Haisla LNG, the Cedar LNG facility that 00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.980 the Haisla First Nation has. embarked on. And, 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:59.619 you know, it's not lost on us that we can help 00:25:59.619 --> 00:26:02.799 the communities come in as the financers and 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.660 participating in the finance, but it truly is 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:07.579 the communities that do all the heavy lifting 00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:10.039 because a lot of these transactions take years 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:13.900 and years. And it's often the vision of many 00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:18.259 leaderships right across Canada who have wanted 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:21.240 certain things for many years. Now they have 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.539 the tools to be able to execute and access because, 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.900 you know, previously or historically, when we 00:26:26.900 --> 00:26:29.779 were accessing capital, it was prime plus two, 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.779 three, four, and often more percent, which makes 00:26:32.779 --> 00:26:36.279 a lot of these projects non -viable. So to have 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:38.579 the opportunity to access affordable capital 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:43.299 is transformative. allows the nations to participate 00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:46.500 in economic development and transfer that wealth 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.279 back to the community and invest in infrastructure 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:52.980 and all these good things that our communities 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:55.619 so badly need. But you get these big economic 00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:59.380 development ones. But I also love the story of 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:03.319 Tomogami First Nation, where they built a new 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.519 12 -unit home for their elders to come home. 00:27:07.210 --> 00:27:10.390 And so they never had that opportunity to welcome 00:27:10.390 --> 00:27:12.809 home their elders and also built a multi -use 00:27:12.809 --> 00:27:15.569 facility where they could go right next door 00:27:15.569 --> 00:27:19.150 to participate in cultural activities or community 00:27:19.150 --> 00:27:23.329 kitchens and things like that. Those things are 00:27:23.329 --> 00:27:27.450 so meaningful and impactful to our communities. 00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:31.869 And it truly helps rebuild a nation and revitalize 00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:35.609 our culture. Yes, because historically your elders 00:27:35.609 --> 00:27:38.690 would. stay in the community, right? So this 00:27:38.690 --> 00:27:43.410 gives them at the end of their lives, actually, 00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:46.029 they now see the fruits of economic and social 00:27:46.029 --> 00:27:49.289 reconciliation, which they did not benefit from 00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:51.269 during most of their lives. So that's nice, but 00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:53.569 also brings it back in the community. So you 00:27:53.569 --> 00:27:56.630 have that intergenerational experience going 00:27:56.630 --> 00:27:58.529 on for the young people who can see their elders 00:27:58.529 --> 00:28:01.829 are here. And all the stories and learnings and 00:28:01.829 --> 00:28:03.769 everything are passed on. You know, I love being 00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:07.049 close to my grandparents. And that's why I went 00:28:07.049 --> 00:28:09.410 back to Manitoba every summer. But to have them 00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:11.930 in the community as the communities are being 00:28:11.930 --> 00:28:16.269 empowered is really, as you say, transformative. 00:28:16.730 --> 00:28:19.250 I guess one of the other things, obviously, on 00:28:19.250 --> 00:28:20.930 everybody's mind, we have a new prime minister 00:28:20.930 --> 00:28:26.009 in Canada, Mark Carney, and the government working 00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:28.450 with the provinces and the First Nations are 00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:31.750 trying to drive things forward. So can you, without, 00:28:31.809 --> 00:28:34.369 of course, going into any of the... the detail. 00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:37.549 How do you see this moment for the country and 00:28:37.549 --> 00:28:40.650 First Nations? Yeah, it's a great question. And 00:28:40.650 --> 00:28:42.609 I think if you ask five different people, you 00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:45.369 may get five different answers on, you know, 00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:47.490 what the perception is. And I think Prime Minister 00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:51.150 Mark Carney has a big job to do right now. There's 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:56.029 a lot of changes geopolitically, of course. There's 00:28:56.029 --> 00:28:57.950 always work to be done when there's a change 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:00.750 in government, a federal government or provincial 00:29:00.750 --> 00:29:04.269 government for that matter, here in Canada. And 00:29:04.269 --> 00:29:10.549 Mark Carney has to balance the objectives and 00:29:10.549 --> 00:29:12.990 the mandates of his government that he has set 00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:18.490 out, but he also is learning and will continue 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:20.390 to learn. It is a learning journey for everybody 00:29:20.390 --> 00:29:27.630 to... and include, co -develop with our Indigenous 00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:30.650 nations. And I think that's the message that 00:29:30.650 --> 00:29:33.529 is coming out of a lot of the nations across 00:29:33.529 --> 00:29:37.789 Canada. Nations are very interested in development. 00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:42.250 You know, we're interested in participating in 00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:46.269 economic development and seeing progress, not 00:29:46.269 --> 00:29:48.349 just within our own nations, but across Canada 00:29:48.349 --> 00:29:54.119 as a whole. You know, there's expectations and 00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.319 responsibilities that come along with that in 00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.920 terms of consultation and listening to those 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.140 rights holders who really are the communities 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:07.339 in terms of how they wish to participate. And 00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:10.700 a lot of these projects will be identified as 00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:15.059 priorities for our nation. So it will be interesting. 00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:22.160 Dialogues continue to happen. I'm hopeful, you 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.759 know, that I think Mark Carney is a very smart 00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:28.559 businessman and understands the power of negotiation 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.079 and the power of listening to come out with a 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.980 win -win opportunity. So I'm always an optimist 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:40.220 thinking that good things will prevail. That 00:30:40.220 --> 00:30:44.859 was my question, Jodi. Are you optimistic? Can 00:30:44.859 --> 00:30:49.420 we find a way to do these? transactions, these 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:54.539 projects in a more efficient way, in a faster 00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:57.440 way. Investors in Canada and around the world 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.380 would all like to see that, but at the same time 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:04.480 respecting rights holders and consultation processes 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:09.420 because these projects have a big impact, especially 00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:12.799 on Indigenous communities who will live with 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.579 the effects for forever in some cases. Yeah, 00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:20.559 absolutely, Rob. I think that, you know, whether 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.480 we look at any of the priorities, whether it's 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.660 projects of national interest, whether it's climate 00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:30.200 change, the path to execution and success is 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.539 through our Indigenous territories. So it's really 00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:39.220 not an option not to engage. And I am optimistic 00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:42.640 because we need to think differently. We need 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.279 to be more innovative and we certainly need to 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.400 be more efficient in terms of how we're approaching 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:53.759 these projects. Because I think that if we're 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.299 not, the result is that timelines are not met 00:31:58.299 --> 00:32:02.819 and costs are overblown. And there is a way to 00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:07.539 be more... and more efficient and meet those 00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:12.220 expectations of consultation and FPIC and all 00:32:12.220 --> 00:32:15.839 these important things that are critical to our 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.759 communities. So I am optimistic, but it takes 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.720 time, right? A true partnership just, it takes 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.359 a lot of work. I wanted to ask Udi a little bit 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:32.720 about your podcast. So that's Bond. Tell us a 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.710 bit about that. Yeah, thanks. It's different 00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:39.630 for me to be on this side of the podcast table, 00:32:39.809 --> 00:32:43.730 although it's fun. And yes, FNFA, we have a podcast 00:32:43.730 --> 00:32:46.450 called Let's Bond, and we bring in community 00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:49.190 members to talk about their projects or some 00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:51.910 of the challenges that they're seeing or have 00:32:51.910 --> 00:32:56.730 encountered and sharing solutions to some of 00:32:56.730 --> 00:33:00.630 the things that they have experienced. I'm sure 00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:03.490 you know Chief Derek Epp. He has an incredible 00:33:03.490 --> 00:33:07.190 episode where he talks about Chiak Dil's housing 00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:10.289 project that we were fortunate enough to participate 00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:13.750 in and the impact that that's had on his community 00:33:13.750 --> 00:33:17.069 and elders and young folks having homes for the 00:33:17.069 --> 00:33:19.910 first time. So we look at things like housing. 00:33:19.970 --> 00:33:22.890 We look at things like insurance. you know, the 00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:27.410 history of FNFA and some of the original leaders 00:33:27.410 --> 00:33:30.789 that helped stand up this organization. And then 00:33:30.789 --> 00:33:33.109 we talk about, you know, what's coming down the 00:33:33.109 --> 00:33:36.150 pipe? What other new innovative tools are we 00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:39.549 looking at? And it's important for us to hear 00:33:39.549 --> 00:33:42.450 from the people that we work with and to truly 00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:45.569 listen to what's happening in communities, because 00:33:45.569 --> 00:33:48.890 if we're not listening. then I think we're going 00:33:48.890 --> 00:33:51.750 in the wrong direction. And certainly our approach 00:33:51.750 --> 00:33:54.829 has always been to hear, truly hear and listen 00:33:54.829 --> 00:33:57.809 to our communities so that we can develop and 00:33:57.809 --> 00:34:01.789 design tools that work when our communities need 00:34:01.789 --> 00:34:05.589 it. We would love to have you guys on that podcast, 00:34:05.650 --> 00:34:09.690 by the way. We'd be happy to be there. That would 00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:13.730 be great. A comment from all the podcasts that 00:34:13.730 --> 00:34:16.030 we're doing, and both of you are Indigenous. 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.340 You know, you can feel the seven generations 00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:22.780 thinking, coming through, that you're thinking, 00:34:22.820 --> 00:34:26.639 what is the impact down the road? And it's not 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.400 separate from the community. It's part of it. 00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:32.239 So, you know, many of us, you know, we're in 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:34.679 the UK or Rob and I have both been here and, 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:36.199 you know, they talk about different projects 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.639 and there's environmental assessments. But you 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:43.460 don't feel that deep sort of ownership and concern 00:34:43.460 --> 00:34:46.840 for what does this mean down. down the road. 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.380 So that really, really comes through. But I also 00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:55.800 think just a separate point, the scale of the 00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.019 opportunity and challenges in front of Canada. 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.440 So China just announced earlier today, President 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:08.719 Xi yesterday, a huge 170 billion dam in the Himalayas 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.460 that is now going to be the focus of the effort. 00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:14.639 And I forget how much concrete the reference 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.820 was. And, you know, in the UK, they will get 00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:19.619 that done. They have a different system of government, 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:23.000 obviously. In the UK, we've had something called 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.300 HS2 and we've already spent, I don't know, $35 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:29.199 billion on it. And it's not going to get completely 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.599 done. So every country is facing these challenges 00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:37.579 in terms of development, infrastructure and energy 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:41.420 projects and how to make things happen. And I 00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:44.500 remain. as Rob knows, an optimist on this, that 00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:46.599 I think Canada is going to find something very 00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:51.280 unique about how to work with the rights holders, 00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:56.099 which are usually the Indigenous people in Canada, 00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:59.699 along with separators and those who are new to 00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:02.679 the country, to come up with a model to provide 00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.719 a model of how a society should work in the world 00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.360 we live in. We're all on planet Earth. And hopefully 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.519 we achieve, here's how you can actually do it. 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.019 Leveraging the millennia of knowledge and traditions 00:36:20.019 --> 00:36:23.360 as well as the best practices and how you get 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.340 things happen and deliver them and provide returns 00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:28.500 to investors, which is very important in the 00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:32.000 world we live in. So I really enjoy these podcasts. 00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:37.469 So I enjoy Let's Bond too. feature some of those 00:36:37.469 --> 00:36:39.849 as well and talk to our investors about what 00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:42.769 they can benefit from that. But it's been absolutely 00:36:42.769 --> 00:36:46.769 great having you with us today, Jodi. Really 00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:49.030 special as always to have a conversation with 00:36:49.030 --> 00:36:51.829 you. Thank you, Mark. It's been a pleasure and 00:36:51.829 --> 00:36:55.670 I enjoy our discussions, Rob and Mark, and could 00:36:55.670 --> 00:36:59.719 probably chat for another hour very easily. You 00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.780 know, thanks for inviting FNFA and allowing us 00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:05.619 to share our story. Thank you for inviting us 00:37:05.619 --> 00:37:10.380 to your summit, which I can't wait for the next 00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:13.599 one. We've been finding it extremely beneficial 00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.980 for us in terms of sharing our story, but meeting 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:20.340 other folks that can help us achieve the goals 00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:23.199 and what we're trying to do here in Canada. So 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:28.590 well -timed. Thanks for joining us, Jody. Thanks 00:37:28.590 --> 00:37:31.909 for your time. Always great to catch up. Enjoy 00:37:31.909 --> 00:37:34.489 the rest of your summer. Congratulations on everything 00:37:34.489 --> 00:37:38.309 that the FNFA has been able to achieve today. 00:37:39.530 --> 00:37:41.710 Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Mark. We'll be watching 00:37:41.710 --> 00:37:46.849 the news, so thank you very much. Thank you to 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:48.929 Jody Anderson for sharing your insights with 00:37:48.929 --> 00:37:51.150 us, and thank you for viewing and listening. 00:37:51.750 --> 00:37:54.269 Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review 00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:57.139 on your favorite podcast channel. Thanks for 00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:59.300 listening to Drum Beats. Until next time.