Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNacca, and today my co -host Robert
Brantanar are discussing the new law of the land
in Canada, Bill C -5, which allows Canada's federal
government to fast -track major infrastructure
projects by bypassing regulations. It's been
passed in response to Trump's tariff threats.
However, significant Indigenous opposition and
ongoing legal challenges may create potential
investment risks through possible protests and
project delays, despite the legislation's intent
to streamline approvals. However, Canada is moving
ahead. Hi Rob, great to see you today from cloudy
London. We've had our heat wave and now we're
having our... Our cooler wave with a lot of rain,
so the reservoirs are filling up, which is great.
How is it over in Canada, in Toronto? I think
you're in Toronto. Yeah, great to see him here
in the Toronto office. We're midsummer, enjoying
the heat and no complaints. It's a sunny, gorgeous
day here in Toronto. So no wildfire smoke is...
The fires have calmed down a little bit out west?
A little bit, a little bit, yeah. I mean, each
day seems to bring a potential evacuation order
somewhere in the country. Wow. But at the moment,
things seem to be under control. Good. Well,
sunny skies in Toronto, so the rest of the country
will be very happy. So, the election's over.
Prime Minister Mark Carney is well installed.
He's set up his cabinet and he's leading a transformational
moment for the country. And he set a very ambitious
plan to move things ahead with something called
the Building Canada Act, which I think is called
Bill C -5. Yeah, it's been a whirlwind six months
when you think back. Wow. And it's interesting
to think about whether we would be here. With
initiatives like that, the Building Canada Act,
the removing interprovincial trade barriers,
lots of initiatives and lots of cooperation at
the moment between premiers and the prime minister.
We'll talk a little bit where Indigenous people
fit into that, but whether we would be taking
these kinds of measures. At this moment, without
the impetus that came from south of the border
and the current president of the United States,
I doubt it. I mean, we're living with tariffs
at the moment on steel and aluminum and the threat
of more tariffs. And all of that has produced
a response. within Canada, it probably affected
our election, and it's affecting the legislation
and the legislative agenda. It certainly has,
and we're in the early part of the week, so yesterday
the European Union agreed a deal, and I guess
in principle, I'm not sure what you call these
deals with the President, but anyway, they claimed
to agree a deal because the President's over
in Scotland, which is becoming his... His Camelot,
I guess, over in the UK is a great fondness for
the UK. I'm not sure it's naturally returned,
but he's been over here holding court, so to
speak, and the European Union showed up and they
got their deal. But as you said, some of these
deals are very, well, I said, some of these deals
are very tenuous and trade agreements take a
long time. So we'll see if this deal even goes
through like some of the others, Japan and Korea,
because... They don't seem well -reasoned documentation
about exactly what's going to be. But you're
right. The change in leadership in the U .S.
and the approach of the new administration to
the rest of the world has dramatically changed
things. And although Canada has this deep relationship
with America that has been productive for both
countries, we're actually last to the party on
signing something, which is true because, as
Prime Minister Karnia said, we have a very unique
relationship. with estates that crosses many
aspects in our geography, also defines our destiny.
So there's a lot of issues going, but it is a
new world. And Prime Minister Carney has been
elected partly on that. And I think, as you mentioned,
with the provinces, to see all the premiers really,
we haven't seen the country so unified for a
long time because we have lived in a very nice
neighborhood. And Canada has benefited from geography
and a benevolent neighbor who happens to be one
of the most powerful countries, if not the most
powerful country in the world for a number of
years. And it's probably been 50 years since
Canada's really had a debate. And I need to decide
what is the future of the country. And Prime
Minister Carney is now leading that. So that
is quite something. Yeah, it struck me. I've
been back in Canada now since March, and it really
struck me how, first of all, how angry Canadians
were at the treatment from the American government
and the proposed high tariffs and a bunch of
other things and a lot of comments about... A
lot of derogatory comments about Canada and Canada's
worth and all the rest. So I've never seen Canadians
as angry as I saw when I came back. And it has
unified Canadians right across the country, up
and down and across in a way that we haven't
seen before. And the politicians are reflecting
that in ways where... They seem genuinely determined
and they've now taken some concrete steps to
remove interprovincial trade barriers for one
concrete step. And let's see what happens. There's
some studies that suggest that the damage done
by high tariffs in the U .S. and reduced trade
with the U .S. would be more than offset. by
an increase in productivity that would result
if we removed the interprovincial trade barriers.
And it was a bit hypocritical for premiers and
politicians in Canada to complain about high
tariffs threatened from the U .S. when we have
our own internal tariffs and trade barriers.
Yes, and for members of our audience who haven't
seen Angry Canadians before. I don't think many
have seen an angry beaver either, but when they
get angry, watch out if you step on their turf,
I guess is the closest thing we can say. And
I guess just for background for our listeners
and viewers, there's a term in Canada, elbows
up, which is about defending the country. And
that comes, of course, from our other national
game, which is lacrosse is one of our national
games with deep indigenous roots, but hockey.
and elbows up as you go in those corners and
you get your way through. You do it cleanly,
but you get in there and fight for the buck and
make it happen. So that's a big phrase in Canada.
But that's really interesting. And I had a chance
to go back to Canada in May, and I hadn't been
back for a long time. And I was, you know, you
could feel exactly what you're talking about.
And I also felt more than I ever had that deep
presence of the Indigenous people in the country.
not as something nobody knew about or saw. It's
foundational to the country. And anywhere I went,
we were welcomed on ceded territory or unceded
territory of a particular nation. So it is a
defining moment for Canada. But it is interesting,
Rob, after you lived abroad over here for so
many years to go back into Canada and to fill
that, which is great. And as you said, with the
premiers, it's been a long time since we got
them all focused. on how do we build a country
that's stronger across the country? Because Canada
has, I think, less free trade than the European
Union does, right, with the interprovincial barriers.
So that is something. And if we can win on productivity,
that will be a win for Canada here regardless,
as we seek to also diversify our export markets.
So there's a double win. The productivity issue
being dealt with, which has been... a longstanding
issue in Canada as well as in the UK, but we
can deal with that. But we have a whole world
who, Canada's a safe brand. Canada's a great
brand to deal with. We have all the values as
a trading partner that people would like. Yes,
obviously some challenges and some historic wrongs,
but Canada's a partner people would prefer over
other resource countries to deal with. Yeah,
we're a big, big country. Some people don't realize
how decentralized decision -making and power,
political power is in Canada, but 10 provinces
and three territories covering, what is it, six
time zones. And when you're putting a country
together like that, one of the ways to keep people
from different regions happy is to devolve power
to them. And so we've got a mix of Provincial
laws, territorial laws, federal laws. And at
this moment, there's a movement to try and harmonize
and streamline and reduce the barriers that exist
to productivity and trade within Canadian borders.
Yes, just historically, for people to understand
this, and I'm sure you'll correct me. if I'm
wrong, and I'm happy to be corrected, Rob, on
this, but when they were setting up the federal
government structure of Canada, after watching
what had happened south of the border with the
American Civil War, it's my understanding that
it was a deliberate strategy to ensure that Canada
had a strong federal government and the provinces,
equivalent in some way to American states, were
relatively weak. However, in those decisions,
natural resources, education, as well as healthcare
were devolved and given to as provincial responsibilities.
So we actually ended up with a country with a
weak central government and very strong provinces,
which is, I don't think what they set out to
do, but the world works in mysterious ways. So
we've ended up at this place, as you said, with
very strong provinces. And has some unique challenges.
And I think we've recently put out some information
about the history of the Indigenous peoples and
the treaties on the site, as you know. And it
talks about that. But the Indigenous people have
the relationship with the Crown. So the provinces
for a lot of the Indigenous nations are like,
well, you can sit on our territory for a little
bit, but, you know, we don't deal with you. We
deal with the federal government and the crown.
So complicated relationships. Yes, that's very
true. But of course, the day -to -day reality
is that provincial governments and some of the
powers they wield do have an effect. And so you
do end up Indigenous people dealing with provincial
governments, federal governments, crown representatives.
So let's talk about the Build Canada Act and
what's been the process. I think Bill C -5 that
it's now. What is the correct term? It's received
royal assent. It is the law of the land today.
And so it is in force. It's really a framework
called the One Canadian Economy Act. And it's
split into two parts. One is focused on. free
trade and labor mobility within Canada. So there
are provisions within the One Canadian Act to
reduce trade barriers within Canada. And then
the other part of the One Canadian Economy Act
is the Building Canada Act. And that is the act
that is aimed at streamlining the processes.
in order to build major projects quicker. Okay,
so there's two parts to Bill C -5, those two
separate acts. One dealing with the provinces
and interprovincial barriers, and the other about
how do we build Canada as a whole. Right. And
then the provinces are enacting their own legislation
to mirror... These provisions in Ontario and
British Columbia, they've already started with
their own legislation to streamline major processes.
It's interesting reading some of the preambles
and backgrounders to the legislation, and the
federal government says that their legislation
is intended to strengthen the Canadian economy,
diversify our trade relations, and increase productivity.
So you can see it's a legislation is a direct
result of some of the tensions with the US and
a new focus on how do we build an economy and
infrastructure to allow us to trade with other
partners. And it also talks about meeting the
moment using all the tools at our disposal to
get major projects built. to help Canada become
the strongest economy within the G7, deepen our
trade relationships with reliable partners, and
to create jobs. Wow. So we're in a contest with
the United Kingdom to be the fastest growing
economy in the G7 because Prime Minister Starmer
over here has set that out. And Canada's now
on that. So we've got Starmer versus Mark Carney.
And as a citizen of both countries, I wish both
well. And I hope we're the top two competing
and alternating in terms of leadership. But the
numbers came out today in term, I think, from
the IMF. And, you know, the US and Canada are
ahead of the game at the moment in terms of the
economy and followed by the UK. UK is at the
moment and expected to be over the next two years
the fastest growing European economy. It is a
timely moment. Well, but hey, that sounds great.
Who could not be in favor of this? But I think
there are some questions. Yeah, devil is in the
detail. And again, the legislation dealing with
the Building Canada Act and focused on major
projects is just a certain limited number. of
what will eventually be designated by the federal
government as projects in the national interest
of Canada and those types of projects. Designated
by the federal government, right? Canada doesn't
run that way in the past. What do you mean the
federal government's going to take the leadership,
right? They might control some taxes and disperse
some funds, but they're going to be first among
equals again. And I guess. It was a good point.
Yes, let's please. But leading off of that comment
about the federal government will designate the
projects. Right. Yes, it's the federal government
who, it's federal law, will make the designations.
The law requires the federal government to consult
with both provinces, territories who are affected,
as well as Indigenous peoples whose rights may
be affected by the designation. To consult. Wait
a sec. I thought Constitution came back. There's
been a number of Supreme Court cases. Canada
signed up for a UN Declaration of Rights of the
Indigenous People. So consult. Consult, but there's
no requirement to get consent. There's no veto
power in here for Indigenous peoples. There's
lots of discretion in streamlining. the usual
processes like environmental reviews, impact
assessments, a bunch of other requirements that
you would normally go through for a major project
build. And so that's why certain Indigenous groups
are angry. Angry at a couple of things. Well,
rightly so, because all this just happened in
the past 20 or 30 years that the Indigenous peoples
have their seat at the table, their rights holders,
and we're going to do things differently. And
now we're back to, we'll let you know. It's one
thing to introduce fast track legislation to
streamline processes and try to build projects,
important projects quicker. The delays and the
time it takes to get some of these projects approved
and built is probably one of the biggest factors
in deterring investment, discouraging foreign
investment. You talk to investors who have options
around the world to place their money, and Canada
is one place that has a reputation for taking...
a longer time to get projects approved lots of
uncertainty in the process overlapping jurisdictions
between provinces and the federal government
lots of discretion so that years of that process
there's still at the end of the day a ministerial
discretion can override everything and all of
that uncertainty and length of time discourages
investment so when you talk to investors whether
they're canadian or or foreign, they will always
talk about that uncertainty and length of time
that is a major deterrent. Yes. And so Mark Carney,
with his experience, and he would know that that
is an issue, and that's what this bill is intended
to address. Good. I mean, one example of that
is just environmental assessments. The federal
government wants an environmental assessment,
and then the province does. It's absolutely crazy,
right? Just choose one of them. And all of a
sudden you cut down that time in half because
is it going to be very different on the environmental
assessments? I wouldn't think so, right? So that's
just bureaucracy gone mad and what happens with
multiple levels of government, you know, by definition.
So Prime Minister Carney's got the experience,
right? He does. And most Indigenous people would
say that they agree that the processes need to
be streamlined. We need to do this quicker to
attract capital and to actually get things done.
But some object to the speed at which this legislation
has been adopted and made law. And so it's one
thing to introduce fast -track legislation. If
you are seen to have fast -tracked the fast -track
legislation, then that can lead to complaints.
And so in Ontario, there's a number of First
Nations who have banded together and actually
launched a claim against the government for failure
to consult properly in adopting these fast -track
laws. And it's understandable. from the historic
perspective, that they may decide to launch a
challenge. In this case, they have, because obviously
they're concerned about what's happened in the
past. And since that's their experience and test,
and we've heard this before, it's understandable
there's a natural reticence. We all want everything
to move ahead quickly and with everybody on board.
There's going to be some people. no matter what
Indigenous, non -Indigenous organizations, different
organizations who will be for and others who
will be against, but we have to make the decisions
for the best of the country, which is for the
Indigenous people, for the non -Indigenous, and
for the country as a whole, to build a better
economy that everybody benefits from, and also
hopefully provides an opportunity to right some
of the historic wrongs. where the Indigenous
people have been excluded from sharing in the
wealth. Yeah, absolutely. Even, as I say, even
the Indigenous groups who've launched this claim
say they're supportive in principle of new laws
that will speed things up. Indigenous people
understand only too well the frustrations of
bureaucracy and waiting for processes to take
their course. They know those problems only too
well. They object to the speed at which this
particular legislation has been brought in. They
don't like the discretion that is given. And
based on past experience, don't trust that that
discretion will be exercised in a way that respects
their hard -fought rights. I mean, the legislation
cannot override the constitutional rights that
Indigenous people have and that the courts have
defined over the years. The governments, both
provincially and federally, seem to be saying,
trust us, we are not going to do any of these
projects without your participation. And consent,
although the language consent is not anywhere
in the legislation, they seem to be saying, trust
us, let's do a project and we'll show you what
we mean. But you can imagine how that goes over
with Indigenous groups who've seen discretion
abused for decades. And I guess just to touch
on for our listeners. Again, the Indigenous people
have been dealing with the bureaucracy for years
under the Indian Act. So if anybody knows what
the bureaucracy can do to stop development, to
stop progress, it would be the Indigenous peoples.
Because as you said, they've suffered from it.
So I think for our listeners to understand this
is not just, oh, this is our land, we have our
rights. It's they've been victims. of that bureaucracy
that actually held you and other Indigenous people
down in the past. So this is an important moment
to get right. And I think if I understand from
what I've read and seen and listened to is, you
know, there's a great, let's do this, but let's
do this in the right way. This is not, no, we're
not doing this. This is, hey, we all want to
do this. We want to understand why we need to
do this now. and how do we best to achieve it
together? So what is Prime Minister Carney and
his colleagues in the federal government doing
to get on board the Indigenous peoples of Canada?
Well, the laws have been passed, so they are
in force. They're now consulting. They're holding
meetings. There have been separate meetings with
First Nations chiefs, other leaders, Inuit. There
have been separate meetings, Métis. Mostly these
have been listening type meetings with Indigenous
people doing most of the talking. It's unclear
exactly what sort of consultation process will
take place and whether that will be adequate
consultation. The projects we're talking about
have not been designated yet. Again, we're not
talking about every project. We're just talking
about a limited number of projects that get designated
as being in the national interest. And those
could be anything from roads to ports. We spoke
recently with Brendan Bell, CEO of the proponent
for the Grays Bay Port and Road Project, which
is a road connecting Northwest Territories with
Nunavut. There are other potential projects around
the country. A lot of it is about infrastructure,
energy, power corridors, connecting the country
in a better way so that we can boost our productivity
and be in a better place to be able to trade
with partners beyond the U .S. And with some
of those projects, they're distributed across
the country. I've read that there's a geothermal
project on the West Coast. You've talked about
Grays Bay Trans Mountain Pipeline might still
come out of this as an important part of what's
trying to achieve. Is that correct? Yeah, that's
a great example of a project that has been completed.
Cedar LNG is another one, the Coastal Gas Link.
So we have been able to complete some projects
in recent years. Hopefully there's been some
learnings through those. Hopefully these newer
projects won't take as long. And it's hard to
imagine in this day and age. a project being
designated as in the national interest against
the objections of the Indigenous people who would
be affected by it. So regardless of what the
law says, there's probably an effective veto
that Indigenous people have over these projects.
Government is saying all the right things, but
the language... It's not in the legislation,
and that's where some Indigenous groups have
a lot of difficulty. Yes, and I'm not sure the
last time national interest has been used in
Canada. Actually, it's of course a well -known
phrase, so is it in the national interest? But
I can't remember the last time, except maybe
the free trade discussion between Prime Minister
Mulroney and President Reagan at the time when
that word had such resonance and importance in
Canada, which also shows this is a transformative
moment. But I would think fortunately at this
time, you know, there is the First Nations framework.
We've moved on. The Indian Act is still there,
but there's a whole new framework. resulting
from the Constitution, some Supreme Court decisions
over time that are changing, I guess, the parameters
of these discussions. As you just said, and of
course, all these opinions are ourselves as individuals.
It'd be difficult to see that the federal government
says this project's in the national interest
and the concerned Indigenous people say we disagree.
It is really difficult to imagine this going
ahead. So maybe part of this process is to see
who's on board because there is a whole list
of potential projects. I'm sure we could come
up with a list of 30 potential projects that
could be perceived as the national interest,
but maybe only 10 or 15 are going to get on that
short list that will be priorities for the country.
Because also in terms of... This is a huge moment.
It will require a huge investment at all levels.
Canada has always survived on foreign capital.
So it's also, you know, how do we bring in the
funding for these different projects? How do
we make sure the indigenous peoples get their
rights and as rights holders, their, you know,
their shareholding in it? And how do we move
forward on these projects? Because then you're
going to have competing resources because there's
a limit to how much the labor force can deliver,
right? There does have to be priorities. So that
will be interesting. Absolutely. And I would
be shocked when the list does come out. I mean,
we're all waiting for a so -called list of the
national interest projects, whether it be a list
or one at a time, just a couple initially. I
would be shocked if those initial projects didn't
have pretty clear, significant Indigenous support.
And that probably means participation in equity,
meaningful participation. There are government
support programs to help Indigenous people financially
buy into projects like this. International investors
are looking more and more at the financial opportunities
to help. So we'll see. Who knows when those projects
initially will be designated. Some people think
it could be this summer. Others think the fall.
I imagine there's an awful lot of consulting
going on to make sure that there's as few objections
from different rights holders and stakeholders
before these projects get... Publicly designated.
I'd like to make a couple of comments. One about
Prime Minister Carney at the moment seems to
be demonstrating that leadership and listening
because I haven't heard a lot of negative comments
about his role and what he's doing in terms of
the direction. There's some questions, but they
think this person is credible. So we can have
some serious discussions, which I think is really
important. And I think, do you agree with that
assessment, Rob? I think the country's behind
it. For the most part, yeah. I mean, there hasn't
been, I haven't seen unity amongst premiers and
the prime minister like you're seeing right now.
Yes. Both ways. It was at Stampede a couple of
weeks ago in Calgary. I know you keep telling
me about this and I haven't been for a long time.
It's like next year. The Ontario government was
out in full force. The premier was there, signed
an MOU about doing more trade, reducing trade
barriers. Albertans and Ontarians, arm in arm,
was great to see and very serious about working
closer together. There was a poll by a respected
pollster just released this week that said 73
% of Canadians now would favour a new... oil
and gas pipeline, either going east or west.
Wow. Canadians are unified. The prime minister
is still in a bit of a honeymoon period. Indigenous
people, I think, respect him, but at the same
time are angry that this bill has been passed
and now he's consulting. And we're not clear
on what the consultation process will look like
going forward. There have been some hard -fought
battles. And some of these processes, they would
like to streamline and sidestep. Indigenous people
have relied on as part of their consultation
right over the years. And we're not sure what
is going to be in its place. And the government
is saying, trust us, trust us. Yes. And I guess
the other component of this is I think defense
will have to feature in these projects. For the
first time in a long time, Canada really hasn't
been focused on what do we invest in defense?
What do we want to defend? And how do we plan
to defend it? And what do we do? And we don't,
we're not in such a, the world is not calm anymore.
War in Europe, wars across the world as there
has been, you know, in Asia, Thailand, Cambodia
are acting up. Africa continues to suffer from
a number of wars. South America has some instability.
The Arctic is melting. The Russians are. aggressive
and have been building icebreakers. China wants
a seat at the table at the Arctic, in the Arctic
forums. The Arctic's melting. And Canada no longer
has a frozen tundra. And it's not possible to
come across. It's changed. It's changed completely.
So Canada will need to make investments because
we haven't made investments for a long time.
At the end of the Cold War, there was the dew
line. part of NORAD, that was important. But
since then, Canada really took the choice between
guns and butter and said, well, we're going to,
we'll let our southern neighbor worry about the
guns because they'll always defend us anyway.
Even though nobody thought, well, if they're
shooting missiles, they're probably going to
get shot down over Canada. But we didn't think
about that because a bit of the bubble sometimes
Canada's in, well. The world is nice and we don't
have to worry about these things, but we found
out the world is not nice, as it always has been.
Yeah, a big part of all of this. Absolutely.
A big part of this one Canadian Economy Act isn't
just about the economy. It's about sovereignty
and national security. And so you'll see that
feature in some of these national interest projects
as well. So sovereignty, national security. the
economy, it is a real defining moment for Canada.
So these projects that are coming up, whether
they come out one at a time or there's a series,
Canada's going to be on the radar for investors
because through this process, we will have a
way to get things done. That in the past, instead
of fighting to get one project, there is an overall
vision. that everybody's buying into, yes, we
need to do this. Now the question is how, and
to make sure everybody's on board with it. Yeah,
let's see if the federal and provincial governments
can thread that needle, speed up the processes,
give more certainty to investors, at the same
time respect Indigenous rights and things like
the UN Declaration. on the rights of Indigenous
peoples, which requires the free, prior, informed
consent of Indigenous peoples who might be affected
by these national interest projects. Yes, but
if they don't thread the needle, I can't see
things going ahead. We live in a different time.
I just don't see how, with a constitution, A
written constitution. We're no longer just, you
know, parliament is sovereign. There's a written
constitution. The rights of the Indigenous people
are guaranteed. The provinces have always been
very strong. We have to all work together and
work it out. And that requires leadership at
all levels, whether it's for a particular Indigenous
nation who have a strong governance structure,
actually, most of the Indigenous nations. with
a chief, with elders, and that seven -generation
thinking. I think actually there's a lot that
the country can benefit at this time because
of the approach Indigenous peoples take to decisions
like this. So yes, they need to agree how to
go about it. But the questions they are asking
are actually questions all Canadians. should
be asking when we're doing major projects, because
it's about how will this impact our country down
the road, right? We have to make good long -term
decisions, and they certainly bring that perspective.
Yeah, there's national interest. There's also
local interest because it's the Indigenous people
who will be living with these decisions in their
communities for generations to come. And so you
can understand why they want to take the time
that's needed to make the right decisions and
get these things, get these projects done properly.
Right. And what are some of the benefits the
Indigenous people are looking at with these projects?
Let's move on to that side. How do they see their
role once the project's agreed and they're supportive
of it? They're not just looking to be, oh, good,
we've got to share the project as rights holders.
They want development for their community. There's
a whole question of infrastructure that hasn't
been provided still after all these years in
their community. So there's a number of items
on their list. Can you? Talk about some of those.
Yeah, for sure. The days of promising some jobs
or some sort of royalty or revenue stream from
a project that might affect Indigenous peoples,
I think, are long gone. And Indigenous people
want a seat at the table. They want to understand
the business. They want to be a part of the business,
the decision -making, the planning. They want
the infrastructure to benefit their communities
as well. There's a massive infrastructure gap
within Indigenous communities around Canada.
They want a seat at the board table. They want
participation. And they want their sovereignty
respected as well. Wow. So it's transformative
opportunity for the country and for the Indigenous
peoples as well, because if we thread the needle,
and I say we because we as a country have to
do that, if we're successful, the fabric of the
land called Canada is going to be stronger than
it ever has been. Absolutely. And we'll be a
real unique country. I know the Commonwealth,
Rob, when we had some of our Indigenous leaders
come over to the summit this past year and were
fortunate to join the Commonwealth Trade Investment
Summit, there was a lot of interest there from
other Commonwealth nations about how Canadian
Indigenous people had got to this position. And
some of it's historic with treaties, but it's
also because there's a whole generation enabled
and empowered, such as people like yourselves
and others. who are in those non -Indigenous
organizations shaping those decisions. So I think
there's a lot of lessons for the world on this.
So Canada, which always likes to present itself
as a progressive nation in other terms, this
is a chance for us really to demonstrate to the
world about how can a country with strong Indigenous
people and... And rights, how can it all come
together to be something more than the sum of
its parts? So very interesting. Yeah, it's an
exciting time. Interesting times. As always,
there is political will. There's will amongst
Indigenous people, I believe, to do this, to
get this done, but to do it in the right way.
OK, well, probably since the Toronto Maple Leafs
haven't won since 1967, that's calmed down the
rest of the country. And, you know, Ontario can
come to the stampede now because, you know what,
we might probably get the Stanley Cup before
they do. So let's let's let's welcome them out
west. Anyway, great to catch up today, Rob. You
too, Mark. A lot going on. I hope the sun continues.
And of course, August is around the corner. And
post -pandemic, I mean, everybody goes to cottage
during the summer in Canada. But post -pandemic,
I think August has become a very special time
where everybody just lays back and enjoys a few
weeks as much as they can. It's cottage and powwow
season. Powwow season is in full flight right
now. Okay, it started as well. So can you describe
to our listeners what powwow season is, just
so they understand? These are indigenous community.
festivals, celebrating local Indigenous traditions,
usually involving a lot of dance and song and
drumming and great food. Okay, wow. And taking
place across the nation. So have you been to
a powwow for the Mohawks or other Indigenous?
No, ours will be Tyendinaga, Mohawks of the Bay
of Quinte. We've got our powwow in early August.
I'll be there in a couple of weeks. Great. Well,
enjoy the powwow and enjoy the time at the cottage
and we'll catch up again soon. Very good. Bye
for now, Mark. Cheers. Bye, Rob. Thank you for
joining Rob and I today in a special podcast
where we discussed an issue of critical importance
for our listeners and viewers. Be sure to share,
subscribe and leave a review on your favorite
podcast channel. Thanks for listening to Drumbeats.
Until next time.