Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant
and I are joined today by Barbara McKenzie, CEO
of the Métis Settlements Development Corporation,
also known as MSDC. Barbara brings over 30 years
of leadership in entrepreneurship, corporate
growth, and strategic disruption. She shares
how MSDC is targeting off -settlement investments
in growth -stage, revenue -generating businesses,
both non -Indigenous and Indigenous -owned. These
are companies that are already revenue -generating
and cash flow positive. As the CEO of MSDC, she's
guiding one of Canada's most forward -looking
Indigenous investment firms. an organization
dedicated to creating economic sustainability
and independence for all eight Métis settlements.
Welcome, Barbara McKenzie, CEO of Métis Settlement
Development Corporation. Great to have you back
with us. Great to be here again. Yeah, welcome,
Barbara. Nice to see you again. We're kind of
all regrouping after you came over to the Square
Mile to join us at the summit, which was great.
We had a wonderful conversation. And as you know,
and the feedback we've had is the summit was
very successful for all the individuals who came
to it. And our speakers and sponsors have been
very happy. But we now get a chance to go back
and talk in further detail with you for a wider
audience. So why don't you, maybe for those who
didn't attend the summit, will be the majority
of our listeners and viewers. Why don't you tell
us a little bit about your background, Barbara?
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm actually located in
Amasquatchiquan, which is Edmonton, Alberta,
Canada. I'm on Treaty 6 territory, which is home
of many of our First Nations and Métis communities
here in the Edmonton, Alberta region. I'm actually
a first generation Canadian, so I am the child
of German immigrants. I was privileged enough
to grow up in the Edmonton area, in a suburb
just outside of Edmonton. Did my education at
the University of Alberta. So I'm a Western Canadian,
Albertan, tried and true. I spent my entire career
here and recently completed in 2020 an executive
MBA. Lots of, you know, deep experience in the
Alberta region and lots of experience with Indigenous
communities over the last few years. Started
out my career, I've been an entrepreneur most
of my life. I've run five of my own companies,
still do so with my partner off the side of my
desk, helping him with his business. And I've
done four corporate startups, Métis Settlements
Development Corporation being the fourth. I also
spent a lot of time in corporate over 20 years.
I was working in a variety of different areas,
such as pensions, banking, law, social enterprise,
tech innovation and economic development. And
I spent the last 10 years in CEO roles, building
those organizations, building different organizations.
And Barbara, you're also on the board of the
Canadian Council for Indigenous Business. I am.
And, but as you said, you're not Indigenous yourself,
but right in the thick leading one organization
on the board of another. Where does your interest
or passion come from to be so involved at a senior
level in the Indigenous economy? Yeah, so about
eight years ago, I joined an organization called
Business Links, which supports entrepreneurs
across Alberta. That organization had an Indigenous
program. That program was led by an incredible
Indigenous leader. And all of our staff in that
program were Indigenous. And they just taught
me so much. And I felt so... aware and suddenly
so educated about the wrongs that had been done
through colonialism, all the things that we were
never taught in school. And I think my light
bulb moment was when the leader said, you know,
the last residential school closed in 1995. I
was 25 years old. And the fact that I didn't
know that that was existing during my lifetime
really made me feel like I needed to do something
and I needed to contribute something. And so,
you know, leading that and then building some
programming for another organization I was with,
with Indigenous people for Indigenous innovators.
When this role came about, I was like. This is
absolutely what I want to do. It blends my need
to do something that's directly going to impact
community with my passion for business. I'm a
bit of a capitalist at heart. So I did that and
I went all in. So I joined the CCIB board. I've
been on a number of other boards in the past.
I really believe in volunteering and making sure
I'm engaged in community. But there's no other
better way to learn than to sit around the table
with people who are deeply immersed and listen
to what they're saying. Yeah, that's fantastic.
You've got so much experience to draw upon. It's
great to have you in senior leadership in two
great organizations. Maybe talk a little bit
about Métis Settlements Development Corps. What
is it and where did it come from? Yeah, so I
joined in the fall of 2022. The organization
was actually stood up in November of 2020 by
the Métis Settlements General Council, of which
all eight Métis settlements are participants.
And it was really concepted as a way to look
at investment opportunities that benefit all
eight settlements that are outside of settlement
territory. A lot of it was kind of... instigated
by the development of the Alberta Indigenous
Opportunities Corporation. And the opportunity
that those loan guarantees started to provide
for Indigenous communities in Alberta. And then,
you know, we've just kind of evolved. We have
an incredible board, seven member board, five
of which are Indigenous, four of whom are Métis.
So the leadership there is deeply entrenched
in community. And it really guides us, our Métis
settlements, you know. Stereo Code, our mandate,
they help us decide what our strategy is going
to be. We're just currently working through a
new strategy process now that we've been around
for four years. And we're really starting to
work through what that's going to look like.
So it's been a really exciting time. Our mandate
has really evolved. So we look at opportunities
and major projects. But we also look at lots
of different business partnerships and business
opportunities. And one of the things that we
identified early on was a real need to access
more institutional and private capital. And the
fact that there was a lack of private equity
funds that were Indigenous and Indigenous community
owned in the space. And so for better or worse,
we decided to start our own fund. And that has
been quite a journey. But it's been great because
we've been able to educate a lot of people along
the way. Can we just ask you this? When we talk
about Métis settlements, are we talking about
the settlement of claims? Are we talking about
communities that refer to as settlements? Or
what are Métis settlements in Alberta? And just
maybe, sorry, Barbara, just maybe before, can
you go back and explain to our listeners? what
a Métis person is. Yeah, absolutely. This is
an important piece too. So the Métis are one
of the three constitutionally recognized Indigenous
groups in Canada. Métis history actually goes
back to colonialism in the early days of the
fur trade and colonialism. So Métis people are
historically, can trace their genealogy back
to Indigenous groups in Canada, as well as early
settlers and early colonizers in Canada. So the
Métis homeland is actually quite broad and vast.
It ranges from northern Quebec and Ontario all
the way through northern British Columbia across
most of the prairies. The Métis settlements are
the only land -based, self -governing Métis in
all of Canada. Very unique through the Métis
Settlements Act here in Alberta. They have 1
.25 million acres of land across eight communities,
6 ,500 members. who need to trace their genealogy
back to the settlements and live in the settlements
in order to kind of be settlement members or
have deep roots in those settlements. It is very
unique in that it's the only Métis communities
in Canada that have this land that's been allocated
by a provincial or federal government. I think
it's also very key. A lot of people know about
the Indian Act. The Métis settlements and Métis
people are actually not governed by the Indian
Act, but were subjected to residential school
systems and many of the colonial oppressions
that all First Nations and Inuit people were
subjected to. So when you refer to the Métis
settlements, so in Manitoba, you're not referring,
when you talked earlier about the eight settlements,
you're talking those in Alberta. It's only those
in Alberta. So there's the Manitoba Métis Federation.
They don't have designated land like we do in
Alberta, but they're a very, very strong Métis
community. But we only refer to the eight Métis
settlements in Alberta. I see. Great. Very interesting
background. What is the mandate of the Métis
Settlements Development Corps? Yeah, so we're
very much focused on finding investments off
settlement that add to the economic sustainability
and independence for all eight Métis settlements.
Currently, the Métis settlements are negotiating
their agreement with the province and they have
a protocol agreement, which includes an economic
sustainability initiative. And, you know, we
feel that MSDC will play a long -term integral
role in that economic sustainability by looking
at opportunities that are off settlements. Like
most, you know, Indigenous communities, the settlements
are more rural and more remote, and that makes
economic development obviously more challenging.
Also, you know, Métis people are agrarian. A
lot of them are farmers, but a lot are also involved
in the forestry industry and the oil and gas
industry here in Alberta and the resource economy.
And there's critical minerals opportunities and
a number of, you know, great opportunities with
the natural resources they have. But they also
need to be able to diversify and be involved
in other parts of the economy as well. You know,
we really look at business participation opportunities
across multiple different verticals. We can invest
in real estate. We're looking at technology.
You know, we look at health care and agriculture
and energy transition and clean tech. So we have
a pretty broad mandate as far as where we can
invest. But the key is that we really look at
those diversification opportunities that are
off settlement. But they can also create employment
opportunities for settlement members as they
want to like expand potentially what they're
doing as well. And as they're leaving the settlement
or even on settlement. One of our staff is one
of our settlement members and she wants to stay
in community and we're a remote company so she
can work for us and she stays on settlement with
her family. Great. And your geographic focus,
you talked about the sectors. Is it just Alberta
or will you go across the country? Yeah, I mean,
initially, we've been really focused in Western
Canada. So we've seen opportunities in Alberta,
B .C. and Saskatchewan. But, you know, we aren't
geographically constrained. We can be across
Canada. We could be global in nature as we grow.
Who knows what those opportunities are going
to look like? I think there's an incredible amount
of. ability for Indigenous communities to invest
globally as, you know, we grow in wealth changes
and intergenerational wealth builds. You know,
we're going to see more and more entrepreneurs
coming about from Indigenous communities and
growing Indigenous businesses, which means that
they're going to look to global markets. And
so we're going to look to global markets as well.
Currently, we have a great deal flow pattern.
People really in Canada understand and respect
Indigenous economic reconciliation. We hope for
the most part. And so we have a lot of people
who want to engage with us. And that's been really
positive. How will MSDC be funded? Yeah, so our
initial funding is through the settlements and
through some government support. But ultimately,
long term, we'll be self -sustaining. So we'll
continue on operating funding through management
fees and through a carve out of dividends from
the companies that we invest in. But the majority
of the returns go back to our Métis settlements
as our limited partners. And will you be combining
private investment with some of your public investment
and funds from the settlements in one large?
Is that your idea? Yeah, so we're running kind
of two LPs right now. So we have the Métis Settlements
Limited Partnership, which is funded through,
again, some government funding as well as the
settlements. That is primarily focused on kind
of private company investments and working on
kind of major projects and equity participation
through the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities
Corporation, other loan guarantee programs. And
we also have the Métis Settlements Impact Fund.
That fund is private and institutional capital
alongside the Métis settlement. So we're looking
to raise initial tranche of $50 million with
a potential top up of another $50 million. But
that really allows those corporations, institutions,
family offices, foundations and private investors
that are looking to invest in the Indigenous
economy to do that and help catalyze that capital
off of the sidelines and start helping to grow
that $100 billion Indigenous economy. So you're
not limited to Métis enterprises or Métis initiatives.
The focus is on the broader Indigenous. investing
only in Indigenous companies or projects, or
is it a little bit more flexible? We're very
flexible. You know, we kind of look at it in
two segments. We invest in Indigenous companies,
Métis, First Nations, Inuit. We have a mandate
to invest in more growth stage companies, companies
that are already cash flow positive, that are
earning revenues. So we see a lot of, you know,
those companies that Raven Capital has invested
in as they want to exit, we see potential opportunity
there to keep those companies Indigenous, 100
% Indigenous, which is what they want. And capital
is really hard to come by in the growth stage.
So especially as you, you know, are minority
owned or Indigenous owned, it becomes even more
challenging. So we really see ourselves having
a place in that. But we also invest very broadly
and partner with non -Indigenous companies. We
have a number of ventures currently that are
non -Indigenous companies that we've come in,
we've built ventures with where we're the majority
Indigenous partner. We catalyze and use the technologies
they develop to build an Indigenous company and
benefit Indigenous communities. And ultimately,
we're values aligned because they want to make
that impact both financially to support our Métis
settlers, but holistically to benefit Indigenous
communities. So that's kind of the other piece
that we look at is non -Indigenous companies
that have a commitment to economic reconciliation.
The two funds are relatively new. Have you deployed
capital yet or what's the timeline for first
investments? So we currently have three partnerships
already under the Métis Settlements Limited partnership.
So one in environment and clean tech, another
one in climate. And then another one in human
resources. And we're currently now actually just
finalizing one in the healthcare space and have
several other that we're looking at this year.
A number of really interesting investments that
we're contemplating in a couple of large projects.
And then in the Métis Settlements Impact Fund,
we were actually just notified this week that
we have our first investor. So we're very excited
about that. We can't say who it is. We can't
make any public announcements yet. But that is
our first close. And so that's really exciting
for us. That is just going to catalyze all of
the capital and the other investors that we've
been working with. So we anticipate that by Q3,
Q4 this year, we'll be making some really significant
announcements of companies that we've invested
in. And the first three or four of those, two
of which are Indigenous and two are non -Indigenous.
So we're really excited about deploying that
capital. Congratulations. Congratulations. It's
not easy for a new fund in a new space to get
that first capital in. So well done. Thank you.
And we'll look forward to more announcements.
Yeah, we're very excited. It's been a long process.
So hopefully we can really start moving this
forward. And, you know, it'll be an exciting
time. There's not that many of us in the Indigenous
space in private equity. There's a handful of
us in Canada. And if we can prove that there's
good returns and there's ability to do this,
we'll hope to see more funds being stood up and
more investors coming to the table. I already
know what fund two, three and four is going to
be for MSDC. So we're super excited. That's great.
And that sounds very positive. And so coming
back a bit to the summit and coming over here
to the square mile, can you tell us a bit about
your experience and some of the people that you
were talking to and had the opportunity to meet?
And, you know, what is your feedback that you'd
like to share? Yeah, I mean, it was amazing to
see so many incredible Indigenous leaders from
Canada there. I think, you know, it really spoke
to the quality of the event and, you know, the
incredible leaders you were able to bring in
and have this discussion about the Indigenous
economy and Indigenous capital deployment and
some of the incredible things that... a lot of
the leaders in First Nations and Métis communities
are already doing to create that economic sustainability
within their communities and participate holistically
in the economy as equity partners. So it's a
fantastic opportunity. Some of the stories and
projects I already knew about and others were
even new to me. So that was great. I think what
was amazing was to see how many people were interested
that are based in London in what is happening
in Canada. And maybe it's the current economic
environment and what's happening here globally.
I think Canada is an incredibly attractive destination
for investment and only going to be more so strong,
stable government, great banking system and incredibly
committed nationalistic people right now. And
the Indigenous economy is just a massive growing
part of that, probably the fastest growing part
of it. So for me, it was incredible to see investors
and officials and just so many people from the
greater London area interested in. in what's
happening here in Canada. Great. Thank you. We're
obviously very pleased that you've left with
such a good impression of the square mile and
that a lot of conversations have started because
over time, we, of course, hope to hear from you
and others to say, you know, the conversation
started there. Obviously, there's a lot of work
to take conversations into actual capital, etc.
But what did you find were some of the key...
When you're thinking now about marketing to perhaps
some of these investors, you reinforced Canada
being very attractive in the Indigenous economy,
this emerging market economy within a very stable
overall Canadian economy, relatively all things
being considered with what's going on south of
the border. But what are some of the key talking
points that you think resonated with the individuals
and corporates that you met over here? I think
a lot of it is obviously the impact that we're
making for Indigenous communities, right? I mean,
I think sometimes there's a misunderstanding
around this idea that Indigenous communities
get a lot of government funding and money and
that if they're resource -based, especially here
in Alberta, that they have the wherewithal to
invest that money any way they want. There's
a lot of constraints around how. resource royalties
and trust monies and all of these things are
actually spent in community, which actually leads
to a lot of challenges and issues in that most
Indigenous communities can't self -direct those
dollars. And, you know, then they cannot impact
their communities in ways that are really beneficial.
So what we're hearing, you know, and what they
need is this economic independence, right, to
be outside of that particular constraints in
those systems. So getting people to understand
this need for capital is really, really important.
I think it's, you know, also really important
to understand the colonial impacts, right? And
this duty that I believe that we have as colonizers
and settlers and, you know, the history of that
to actually move our capital. to places where
it can do a lot of change and a lot of benefit
while still earning a return. We are not concessionary.
And I think that's a huge message, right? We're
investing in businesses that will grow and have
massive potential. And that if we catalyze that
potential, Indigenous and non -Indigenous, you
will see a really, really excellent return. We've
kind of said our returns will be in 15 percent.
We believe they will be higher. We've been a
little bit, you know, conservative in our first
projections. But we know that these companies
are and some of them are already seeing catalytic
growth. A lot of it because of what's happening
below the border, which is really good. And so
investments in those companies will be really,
really phenomenal. And then ultimately, you know,
the ripple benefit of all of that. So it's a
big circular economy in a lot of ways in what
we're trying to construct in the way it'll create
benefit for everyone. Barbara, I'm interested
in how you're structured or governed. You've
got a board, you've got another, you've got an
investment committee. Is there a Métis philosophy
or? perspective that permeates throughout? How
do you maintain that connection to communities
and what you're doing? Yeah, our communities
are very connected to what we do. So our shareholder
is MSDC, is the Settlement Senior Corporation,
of which all eight members, all eight chairs
of the settlements are the board of directors.
All of the settlements are our limited partners.
We're the general partner of that Métis Settlements
Limited Partnership. Our board has representatives
from East and West settlements, which are non
-political. They are business people from the
community and community representatives. So that
keeps us grounded. We have then five independent
board members, two of which are Métis, one who
is First Nations and two who are non. So again,
very much keeps us grounded. Our whole mission,
vision, values is all grounded in Métis culture,
Métis roots. Three of our staff are Métis. So
that keeps us on point and on key as well. So
it's very, very important to us, our investment
committee for the Métis Settlements Impact Fund.
I always say it has the three token white guys
and then three incredible Métis women in finance
that are just phenomenal leaders in their own
right and incredible Métis women that are very
grounded in culture that also keep us really,
really focused on those key values. Every investment
we make, we look at from a values perspective
first and how it aligns to Indigenous values,
Métis values, how important it is that people
truly believe in reconciliation. And if those
things don't align, we don't partner, we don't
invest. That is the first thing. Then secondly,
obviously, the finances have to be right. But
we need to have that alignment and that commitment
first. And what's your sweet spot for writing
a check if you have one? I know you've got a
fair bit of flexibility, but. We do. I mean,
right now we're being very conservative, probably,
you know, 1 million to 1 .5 million is kind of
the sweet spot. Most of these companies are smaller.
That gives us usually 20, 30 percent equity,
which is key for us. We want to be equity partners
in that. We want to bring Indigenous equity to
the table. And that's that long -term viewpoint,
that generational viewpoint. We're not just here
for a quick return. We're long -term investors
into these companies. We're patient capital.
We want to be partners. So that's kind of the
sweet spot for us. So just coming back to what
you're talking about in your conversations here
in the city. And it's slightly different over
here because the UN SDG goals and ESG is really
key in at the heart of the city because it's
helping to finance and set the framework for
that transition to that better future for all.
So the feedback I got was there was a lot of
relevance. Wow, they're providing. what meets
our ESG, but even more, they're providing, as
you said, you don't have to sacrifice any of
the returns. So I know that was perceived as
really well. And it's kind of different because
this conversation is now going across the pond
between Europe and Canada about how do we grow
things in the way that we want the world to be.
And America is kind of going in a different direction.
So I think that story becomes... really important
in terms of working through. So I'm sure that's
something that you felt here too, building on
what you said earlier. Yeah, and we've specifically
built in an ESGI perspective. So not only just
ESGI, but then, you know, taking that a step
further and bringing in an Indigenous perspective
in our goals as well. So every company that we
invest in, we work through an ESGI metric with
them. And there are metrics that they have to
hit as we move forward with that partnership
and that investment. And so the framework is
quite broad in how we've built that out, but
how they impact Indigenous communities is really,
really important. And then, you know, environmental,
social and governance issues that we need to
ensure that they're also maintaining, because
those are really important to our communities
too, right? And we want to have that piece of
it. UNSDGs, you know, we actually worked through
a process where we looked at where we align to
UNSDGs. So many pieces of UN SDGs where we are
able to like align what we're doing around climate,
around food, around reconciliation, around economic
prosperity. So we really feel that as an organization
and as a fund, we're able to make, we will be
able to make a really significant difference
across multiple. Really important things that
we need to achieve, no matter what happens south
of our border here in Canada. Canadians still
believe in reconciliation and in equity and diversity.
We still believe that, you know, we need to do
better for the climate. And I say that as an
Albertan. We can do these things side by side.
Nothing has to be exclusive of the other. Nobody
has to be left out of the economy. I mean, Indigenous
people have been left out of the economy for
300 years. Nobody needs to be left out of this.
Nobody needs to be left out of employment. All
of these things can coexist, and that's what
we want to promote. Yes, that was certainly,
you know, you and the other speakers and moderators
and panelists who came over from Canada, yourself
included. These are some of the best business
leaders you can find in Canada today. And very
hungry. and very competitive in a positive sense
to make things better and succeed. And I think
that energy and dynamism really comes through.
And that's what the city is all about in terms
of the convening power of the city is because
people with great ideas and opportunities come
here to make connections with others, to take
things to a higher level. Canada and all the
territories have always prospered because foreign
capitals come in, because there's not enough
resources, capital. within Canada to develop
all the opportunities that lie in front of Canadians,
non -Indigenous and Indigenous. So it was absolutely
great to have you over as part of that discussion
and creating awareness of the opportunities that
exist. Yeah, I mean, we're a small but mighty
country. But yes, you're right. I mean, we need
foreign capital to fuel all of the incredible
opportunities here. Barbara, the pushback, you've
alluded to it, in the US at the moment against
DEI and in particular DEI investing. Have you
noticed any of that in Canada? Has there been
any impact on your marketing efforts? Do you
have to change the way you talk about things?
I mean, I think, you know, The people that we're
talking to are interested in impact. You know,
whether that's in the U .S. or Canada or globally,
they're definitely looking at what impact they
can make. So they're firmly still rooted in those
values of EDI and ESG and, you know, sustainability.
I think in Canada, you know, yes, this is a very
interesting and difficult time. I mean, Our inherent
sovereignty is being attacked, right? And, you
know, we still say, hey, we're still a Commonwealth
nation. We're not American. We don't want to
be American. Canadian nationalism is at an all
-time high. We're, of course, in the middle of
a federal election that will determine a lot
of what we do. But I think, you know, sustainability,
DEI, is really still at the top of a list of
a lot of people. We're maybe seeing a step back
when we're having those conversations with American
companies. But I don't think fundamentally the
core of what we are as Canada will change because
I feel it's been more embedded here. You know,
I mean, even with many of the things that we've
done in the past, I still think we have a better
attitude towards DEI and ESG than... you know,
the Americans have ever had. Great. Well, Barbara
McKenzie, CEO of Métis Settlement Development
Corporation, it has been absolutely great to
have you on our podcast. After the summit, this
engagement we've had, and we look forward to
be able to talking to you in the future after
you've closed your deals, after you can announce
who your partner is and you've closed some deals,
it sounds like there's a great future ahead,
which is... what we're all interested in helping
and supporting and giving you a platform to speak
to those in the Square Mile and beyond about
the opportunities in existing Canada. I want
to thank you guys very much. I mean, it was incredible
to be there. It's our kind of first foray into
the UK market and the European market. So it
was great to be able to kind of hear what people
had to say and their interest in what we're doing.
It's certainly the interest in what's happening
in the Indigenous space in Canada is fantastic.
Rob and Mark, thank you so much for advocating
for this and moving it forward. And, you know,
we need more people like you doing this work
globally. And, you know, Rob, I know you're back
in Canada, so I know your leadership will continue
here as well. Well, thank you, Barbara, and I
appreciate those comments and thanks for your
time today. But thank you more importantly for
all the work you do. trying to grow the Indigenous
economy in the island. Absolutely. Thank you.
Best job I've ever had. Great. Cheers. Cheers.
Thank you to Barbara McKenzie for sharing your
insights with us. And thank you for viewing and
listening. Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave
a review on your favorite podcast channel. Thanks
for listening to Drumbeats. Until next time.