WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.710 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:08.669 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.669 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.570 --> 00:00:14.949 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:17.510 and I are joined today by Tabitha Bull, President 00:00:17.510 --> 00:00:19.649 and CEO at the Canadian Council for Indigenous 00:00:19.649 --> 00:00:22.850 Business. She discusses how community involvement 00:00:22.850 --> 00:00:25.710 in projects, particularly through revenue sharing 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:28.800 and capacity building, empowers them to reinvest 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.579 in local and external initiatives, and engages 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:34.759 business stakeholders. This is exemplified by 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:38.020 renewable energy projects in Ontario, where policy 00:00:38.020 --> 00:00:40.240 incentives encourage First Nation partnerships 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.159 by offering higher payments per kilowatt under 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:47.140 power purchase agreements. As a result, Indigenous 00:00:47.140 --> 00:00:53.380 participation and investment is encouraged. Tabitha 00:00:53.380 --> 00:00:55.719 Bull, CEO of the Canadian Council for Indigenous 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:59.740 Business, CCIB. Great to have you here again. 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:03.020 It was super to see you earlier at the summit. 00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:08.019 And fantastic that you're back in London again. 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:11.319 You're through here regularly. You're in Paris, 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:14.060 I understand, as well. So it's great to have 00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:15.920 you here. Yeah, thank you. It was great to be 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.120 able to participate again this year. And it's 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:20.670 great to be here for conversation. Excellent. 00:01:20.829 --> 00:01:23.069 Yeah, thanks for taking the time out, Tabitha. 00:01:23.109 --> 00:01:25.549 I know you're very busy and in demand. It was 00:01:25.549 --> 00:01:28.629 not that long ago, was it? You were doing 17 00:01:28.629 --> 00:01:31.109 media interviews one day in a row or something 00:01:31.109 --> 00:01:34.609 like that. You're constantly doing speaking engagements. 00:01:35.629 --> 00:01:38.870 So really appreciate the time you've taken out 00:01:38.870 --> 00:01:42.290 to talk about the CCIB. It's an organization 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:45.969 that's near and dear to my heart because my very 00:01:45.969 --> 00:01:50.680 first summer office job. 40 years ago, was working 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.500 for the CCNB, as it then was, the Canadian Council 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:57.400 for Native Business. When your parents took you 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.340 as a baby into the office with them, right? I 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:03.120 think CCNB was a year old, and I was a summer 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:08.199 hire to help build a directory of Native businesses 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:13.900 in Canada. And so to see where it's come to today 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:16.550 and where you've taken it, how many... members 00:02:16.550 --> 00:02:18.469 do you have today? How big is that directory 00:02:18.469 --> 00:02:21.830 today? Yeah. So today our membership is both 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:24.169 Indigenous and non -Indigenous businesses because 00:02:24.169 --> 00:02:28.849 we were 40, now 41 years ago, started really 00:02:28.849 --> 00:02:31.189 with a mandate of bringing corporate Canada and 00:02:31.189 --> 00:02:33.229 Indigenous businesses together to grow the Indigenous 00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:35.689 economy. So our membership is still Indigenous, 00:02:35.889 --> 00:02:37.729 non -Indigenous businesses, corporate Canada 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.849 from every sector, every size across the country. 00:02:42.509 --> 00:02:44.330 And then Indigenous businesses also in every 00:02:44.330 --> 00:02:47.590 sector and every size. So today we have about 00:02:47.590 --> 00:02:51.229 2 ,800 members and about 1 ,700 of those are 00:02:51.229 --> 00:02:54.189 Indigenous businesses and the remainder are non. 00:02:54.270 --> 00:02:57.069 And both like corporations, institutions, not 00:02:57.069 --> 00:03:00.729 -for -profits, all looking. Law firms. Law firms, 00:03:00.770 --> 00:03:02.750 that's right. McCarthy Techo is a good member 00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:06.150 and good standing. Very good. Yes, exactly. And, 00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:08.110 you know, we've seen significant growth. So about 00:03:08.110 --> 00:03:11.969 five years ago, we just hit a thousand members. 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:15.789 So the last five years have been really exponential 00:03:15.789 --> 00:03:18.310 growth as an organization. And who's been the 00:03:18.310 --> 00:03:20.229 CEO for the last five years? That's right. I'm 00:03:20.229 --> 00:03:23.370 going to say. Yes. So I did take over the leadership 00:03:23.370 --> 00:03:29.110 five years ago, March of 2020. And the organization 00:03:29.110 --> 00:03:32.120 has really grown. And I think, you know. it's 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.400 not just the CEO, I would say, and to all my 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.520 predecessors, it's been a, you know, strong growth. 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:41.060 I think there's a lot of reasons. One, you know, 00:03:41.060 --> 00:03:43.680 we were in a pandemic when I took over and the 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.099 role that we played to advocate for Indigenous 00:03:46.099 --> 00:03:48.219 businesses and supporting the Indigenous economy 00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:51.740 through that period of time definitely showed 00:03:51.740 --> 00:03:53.520 that there was a need for an organization like 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.219 ours and the value that we provided. And then, 00:03:57.259 --> 00:04:02.139 you know, I think Canadians with, like, George 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:05.039 Floyd and then with the confirmation of the graves 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:08.439 at Kamloops, Canadians and corporations really 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.620 woke up to this social economic gap that existed 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:15.460 for businesses and individuals. And that definitely 00:04:15.460 --> 00:04:19.180 spurred some growth as well. Though I would say, 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.759 you know, you see people that come on really 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.060 quickly without doing the education and the learning 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.160 are just as easily the ones who like back away 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.860 as fast. But some organizations, you know, who 00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:32.680 really are digging in and wanting to understand 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:34.980 how they can do better and learning about our 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.639 history are making a real impact and impact in 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.740 areas where we hadn't seen before. So with every 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:45.199 new organization and sector, it brings new opportunity 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.279 to support Indigenous economy as well. Fantastic 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.800 stuff. Maybe step back a bit in your personal. 00:04:52.760 --> 00:04:56.639 Before you became CEO, where are you from? How 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.480 did you end up in the role you're in today? So 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:01.480 I'm a member of Nipissing First Nation, which 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:03.800 is in Northern Ontario, about three and a half 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.480 hours north of Toronto. But my dad grew up at 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.160 Serpent River First Nation, which is about six 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.819 and a half hours north of Toronto. My parents 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:13.500 live in the community now, but we didn't grow 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:18.079 up there. We've had a place there since... 1990. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:20.879 So I have spent a lot of time in Nipissing and 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.879 my parents moved in 2000 and my dad was on council 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:29.379 for some time. I'm an engineer by training and 00:05:29.379 --> 00:05:32.439 I went into engineering with the purpose to work 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.139 and support Indigenous communities, you know, 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:38.279 my own community and others in spaces where we 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:40.699 don't have a lot of engineers or Indigenous people, 00:05:40.779 --> 00:05:44.560 I should say. My father actually worked for Ontario 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.560 Hydro in Ontario and The history of Ontario Hydro 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:50.839 with First Nation communities is not a good one. 00:05:51.259 --> 00:05:53.860 They flooded a number of communities as they 00:05:53.860 --> 00:05:56.100 moved water around without communities knowing. 00:05:57.300 --> 00:05:59.779 Communities had to relocate, like the water would 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:01.579 just rise in their community and they would have 00:06:01.579 --> 00:06:05.759 to relocate. Yeah, they flooded graveyards in 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.600 communities. So a very, very difficult history. 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:11.860 And that's not unlike what happened in other 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:16.560 provinces. Manitoba, very similar. Sorry, but 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.639 without any warning. Without any conversation 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:24.819 or discussion or warning. And I, so he was a 00:06:24.819 --> 00:06:26.540 mechanical maintainer, so worked like in the 00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:29.519 plant growing up. And then through his career 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.480 and then Ontario Hydro started a group to really 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:36.459 work with those communities that they had treated 00:06:36.459 --> 00:06:40.730 poorly on. reconciliation, like before reconciliation 00:06:40.730 --> 00:06:44.769 was really ever a word. So about 1993. And he 00:06:44.769 --> 00:06:46.730 spent a lot of time traveling around the province 00:06:46.730 --> 00:06:49.110 of Ontario, meeting with communities and understanding 00:06:49.110 --> 00:06:51.269 what the impact was and coming to settlement 00:06:51.269 --> 00:06:53.569 agreements. And from those settlement agreements, 00:06:53.769 --> 00:06:58.730 now we see projects being built and First Nation 00:06:58.730 --> 00:07:01.730 communities partnered on projects with what is 00:07:01.730 --> 00:07:05.180 now called Ontario Power Generation. So part 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.180 of their settlement would be we're going to build 00:07:07.180 --> 00:07:08.339 a project here and you're going to be able to 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:11.000 build revenue from that. And it makes me very 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:15.680 proud to know that my dad was part of that. And 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.819 then when I went into engineering, just watching 00:07:17.819 --> 00:07:20.060 what he did, I firstly was like, I'm not going 00:07:20.060 --> 00:07:21.379 to go work there because that's where my dad 00:07:21.379 --> 00:07:25.839 worked. I did end up there eventually. But, you 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.439 know, there really aren't a lot of Indigenous 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.300 engineers. And we have a lot of our young people 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.639 who go into social work and teaching because 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.209 that's what they see growing up. So wanting to 00:07:36.209 --> 00:07:40.089 be that bridge, but in a more STEM type area. 00:07:40.829 --> 00:07:45.389 So I was in electricity for 20 years almost. 00:07:45.569 --> 00:07:48.029 And the last part of my career, I was able to 00:07:48.029 --> 00:07:50.689 work with communities across Ontario on renewable 00:07:50.689 --> 00:07:54.670 projects. As Ontario came off of coal and we 00:07:54.670 --> 00:07:57.269 moved to renewable energy, there was a really 00:07:57.269 --> 00:08:00.269 good policy decisions to ensure that. First Nation 00:08:00.269 --> 00:08:02.230 and Métis communities in Ontario could participate 00:08:02.230 --> 00:08:05.949 in those programs. So then I got to travel all 00:08:05.949 --> 00:08:09.129 over Ontario, meet with communities, many who 00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:11.649 had met with my dad, which was very full circle 00:08:11.649 --> 00:08:17.110 for me. And then I kind of got to a point where 00:08:17.110 --> 00:08:18.870 I felt like I did what I had set out to do and 00:08:18.870 --> 00:08:20.730 I wanted to do something new and something more 00:08:20.730 --> 00:08:26.290 national. So made the move to CCAB at the time. 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:30.040 We've gone through three name changes. I was 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.139 on the board of CCAB and I really believed in 00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:35.279 what they did and the work that they did and 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.399 the impact they had. So made the move there as 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.139 the chief operating officer and then became CEO 00:08:40.139 --> 00:08:44.700 in 2020. And it's been an incredible five years 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:48.340 for sure. Just to step back because I'm still 00:08:48.340 --> 00:08:50.580 kind of in shock. And I shouldn't be in shock 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:53.100 anymore because I've read a lot. I've heard all 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:56.980 the stories. But for our listeners to understand, 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.799 on Harry Hydro. is a provincial government organization. 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.279 So this is the government basically treating, 00:09:05.419 --> 00:09:09.440 ignoring the people who live there. Yeah. They 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.799 would not get away with that anywhere else of 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:13.399 this side, part of Toronto. Okay, we're just 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.559 going to use that and, you know, oh, by the way, 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:18.779 the water's coming. That's right. Right? And 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:21.259 they wouldn't now. I mean, at that time, Ontario 00:09:21.259 --> 00:09:24.480 Hydro owned Generation N transmission. So also 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.980 transmission line that crossed. lines that cross 00:09:27.980 --> 00:09:31.899 first nation land um there were like lease agreements 00:09:31.899 --> 00:09:34.700 that were put in place but very minimal payments 00:09:34.700 --> 00:09:37.200 for yes being able to do that across the land 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.220 um and probably not a lot of consultation in 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:43.200 advance of that oh no we're going to do this 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.179 and we will give you a little bit of exactly 00:09:45.179 --> 00:09:48.200 money for the for the trouble yes exactly so 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:50.139 the like you know we have a lot of hydroelectric 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:54.350 in in ontario and diverting water In the springtime 00:09:54.350 --> 00:09:57.889 and moving water, there was never a conversation 00:09:57.889 --> 00:10:01.190 with communities about that. And some of those 00:10:01.190 --> 00:10:04.570 communities that I have had the honor of visiting, 00:10:05.029 --> 00:10:08.090 you know, there are still elders there who remember 00:10:08.090 --> 00:10:11.149 that happening when their village was right next 00:10:11.149 --> 00:10:13.389 to the water and the water would rise. So they 00:10:13.389 --> 00:10:17.250 all moved up to a higher level or away from. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.399 from the water, which was, you know, their source 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.580 of food. And you can still see in some communities 00:10:22.580 --> 00:10:24.700 where the old village was. But this one particular 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:28.820 community was still working through a settlement 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:32.299 agreement. It's called Gull Bay First Nation 00:10:32.299 --> 00:10:34.379 in Northern Ontario. They were still working 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:36.759 through an agreement with Ontario Hydro when 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.480 I came on the scene. And then they were the first 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:45.470 community to have a solar battery backup. They 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:49.029 were a diesel community. So it has almost displaced 00:10:49.029 --> 00:10:51.389 most of the diesel that the community uses. And 00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:53.870 it was owned in partnership with Ontario Hydro, 00:10:54.009 --> 00:10:57.429 the province, and the community with the intention 00:10:57.429 --> 00:11:00.429 that the community will own that full project 00:11:00.429 --> 00:11:04.250 in the future. Yes. So that's why it comes back 00:11:04.250 --> 00:11:07.970 to UNDRIP. Our audience knows about that now. 00:11:08.129 --> 00:11:11.450 Yeah. United Nations Declaration of the Rights 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:14.679 of Indigenous People and why that is. so important, 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.639 was such a game changer as well to help address 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.139 these issues. And Canada has signed up to it, 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.460 and that's the law of the land now. Yeah, I think, 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.700 you know, not to get too into the details, but 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:31.480 within our constitution in Section 35, it states 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:35.299 that you have to consult with the community on 00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:38.700 impact and that the community has to, I mean, 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:40.460 those impacts have to be evaluated and you have 00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:43.600 to move through those. That wasn't... in place 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.600 at the time when this happened. And now anytime 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.639 a project is being built or transmission lines 00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:52.799 are being built, those are subject to the duty 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:55.740 to consult and organizations need to go and meet 00:11:55.740 --> 00:11:58.840 with those communities. But now we're seeing 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.279 it's, you know, table stakes and it's a game 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.519 changer. Like no corporation even thinks about 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:08.259 building anything without first working with 00:12:08.259 --> 00:12:12.370 a community. And we actually see that those projects 00:12:12.370 --> 00:12:15.149 move faster when you already have a partner. 00:12:15.350 --> 00:12:18.970 So now we have the transmitter, largest transmitter 00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:23.190 in Ontario. So we were doing energy planning 00:12:23.190 --> 00:12:27.519 in my old career. Going out and meeting with 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.539 communities and saying there's going to be a 00:12:29.539 --> 00:12:32.340 need for new transmission or new generation or 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:35.620 something in this territory. What would be the 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:37.980 best thing for the community? What would you 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:41.500 want to see? And also that allowed for communities 00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:44.159 to start to prepare to be part of that solution. 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:49.100 So this was 10 years ago. And now there's a transmission 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:52.100 line being built. And five of the communities 00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:55.139 in that territory came together. partnered with 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:57.320 a transmitter, and they submitted the bid to 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.980 build the transmission line. So all of that work 00:12:59.980 --> 00:13:01.659 had already happened before the call for the 00:13:01.659 --> 00:13:04.860 need came out. And that's where we see successful 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:09.620 projects that are much less risk, will be built 00:13:09.620 --> 00:13:12.759 much faster because the community is already 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.759 engaged. They're part of it. And also the benefit 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:19.179 to the project. You're employing local people 00:13:19.179 --> 00:13:21.639 who really care about the territory, who aren't 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.230 going anywhere. And if we look at like a mining 00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:27.929 project, you know, when that mine leaves, the 00:13:27.929 --> 00:13:29.590 people that have worked there care about the 00:13:29.590 --> 00:13:32.789 land. So reclaiming the land to where, how it 00:13:32.789 --> 00:13:35.830 was before, you have much more success in that 00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:38.490 as well when you have communities involved as 00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:40.649 project proponents and involved in the planning 00:13:40.649 --> 00:13:43.669 process. And so, yeah, contrast those former 00:13:43.669 --> 00:13:45.830 days to the situation now where you have stated 00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:49.149 policies within companies like Hydro One responsible 00:13:49.149 --> 00:13:54.330 for the transmission. who have said they will 00:13:54.330 --> 00:13:57.929 not build any new transmission lines, any significant 00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:01.110 transmission lines, unless the local Indigenous 00:14:01.110 --> 00:14:05.370 communities own at least 50 % of those transmission 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:07.909 lines. And you're seeing communities come together 00:14:07.909 --> 00:14:12.710 to do just that. Yeah, and even more so, Hydro 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:15.230 One is even looking at, you know, understanding 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:19.450 that equity, access to capital and equity is 00:14:19.450 --> 00:14:22.419 difficult for so many communities. So they've 00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:25.240 not just said, like, we want communities to have 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:26.899 an equity position, but they're also looking 00:14:26.899 --> 00:14:29.360 at ways that they can help support them to be 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.000 able to access that capital, which is that second 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.440 step of corporation needs to go, right? It's 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.480 great to make a commitment to that, but unless 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.960 you're enabling that to happen, you're not going 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:43.399 to see progress. And it's really great to see 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.980 that Hydro One is trying to find solutions for 00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:49.440 investment vehicles, as is, you know, many provinces 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.059 and the federal government as well. Yeah, in 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.879 BC, for example, their recent call for power 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.639 proposals, and it was a requirement that at least 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.059 25 % of any of the proposals for new power generation 00:15:02.059 --> 00:15:06.620 would have Indigenous equity participation. Of 00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:10.360 the nine proposals, I think that one, all but 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:13.340 one of them had a majority of Indigenous participation. 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.500 It's the way things are being done now. It is, 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:19.539 and it's like also then revenue that... goes 00:15:19.539 --> 00:15:21.139 to the community that they can reinvest back 00:15:21.139 --> 00:15:24.340 into other projects. And the capacity building 00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:27.120 that comes along with that in a community also, 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:29.799 you know, from a business perspective, from being 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:32.080 at the table in those conversations and negotiations, 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.840 allows them to then be investors in other projects, 00:15:36.019 --> 00:15:38.779 either for their community or for others. In 00:15:38.779 --> 00:15:41.860 Ontario, we saw that too with renewable projects. 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:46.039 There was incentives to have First Nation as 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.769 a partner. They actually get paid. It's a power 00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:52.409 purchase agreement. And they get paid a little 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.210 bit more for every kilowatt if you have a First 00:15:54.210 --> 00:15:56.330 Nation project than the projects that don't. 00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.190 So a real incentive driven by policy to ensure 00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:03.470 that there's participation. Tabitha, you travel 00:16:03.470 --> 00:16:07.330 all over and you speak. You were at our summit, 00:16:07.409 --> 00:16:10.309 our second annual Canadian Indigenous Investment 00:16:10.309 --> 00:16:14.090 Summit in London. What were your impressions 00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:17.970 or takeaways from it? From the day with some 00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:21.470 London investors. Yeah. You know, and I had the 00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:24.090 honor of this being my second time attending. 00:16:24.190 --> 00:16:28.990 So even just seeing the growth in the summit 00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:32.029 and in the topics, I mean, it was so important 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:35.110 to have like real case studies of projects that 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:39.379 are really. building revenue and for investors 00:16:39.379 --> 00:16:41.840 to understand the stability of these projects 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.139 and that they're, you know, progressing towards 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:49.860 a revenue generating project. Also, you know, 00:16:49.860 --> 00:16:52.820 the delegation that was here, it's like incredible 00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:56.000 to be amongst them, you know, at home in Canada. 00:16:56.059 --> 00:16:59.019 Those are really like leaders that are pushing 00:16:59.019 --> 00:17:02.779 forward on. Indigenous economies across the country. 00:17:03.259 --> 00:17:06.480 Well, you're one of those leaders. Thank you. 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.019 Absolutely. That part of that A -team, we had 00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:11.779 the Ontario Minister of Indigenous Affairs. And 00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:15.299 like I said at the summit, it's unusual to see 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:18.640 a minister who generally they would come in and 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.000 leave after they've said their piece. Minister 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.839 Rickford stayed for the entire day. And we asked 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.059 him why. And he said, because I wanted to. hang 00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:32.180 out with people like Tabitha. He said it was 00:17:32.180 --> 00:17:35.000 an incredible lineup and he wanted to learn and 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.460 just be around people here. So we recently had 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:41.779 an election in Ontario and his title changed 00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:46.019 a little bit. It's a very long title. But they 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:49.519 really understand that any projects in Ontario 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:51.619 have to have partnership with Indigenous communities 00:17:51.619 --> 00:17:55.009 as well. In the time that we're in, when the 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:57.849 resources, many of the resources we have across 00:17:57.849 --> 00:18:00.910 Canada, but critical minerals in Ontario, we're 00:18:00.910 --> 00:18:04.789 very rich in those. And it's been a conversation 00:18:04.789 --> 00:18:09.390 for many, many years, the Ring of Fire. And I 00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:13.069 think that the province really is understanding 00:18:13.069 --> 00:18:15.869 that we won't be moving forward on that unless 00:18:15.869 --> 00:18:17.829 they get things right with the communities that 00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:20.430 are going to be impacted. And it's really great 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:23.190 to see Minister Rickford. speaking those things 00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:28.470 aloud and attending conferences across the country 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:30.349 and globally. When he heard about this summit, 00:18:30.470 --> 00:18:33.210 his team reached out and definitely he wanted 00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:35.630 to be here to learn from everybody. And I know 00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:37.730 he's been traveling across the country, just 00:18:37.730 --> 00:18:40.509 really trying to learn about examples about Indigenous 00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:44.769 economies and making commitments from the province 00:18:44.769 --> 00:18:47.190 of Ontario on that support as well, which is 00:18:47.190 --> 00:18:51.740 really, you know, at the summit. Chief Ted Williams 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:53.880 from RAMA stood up and really made a point to 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.819 thank him for that time. I think that's a it's 00:18:56.819 --> 00:19:00.519 a really it's a big step for Ontario with our 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.900 government in that commitment. Your organization 00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:07.720 is across Canada. You've got members. Yes. North, 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.960 south, east and west. This year, tariffs have 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.650 been on the agenda and changed the. perception 00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:21.009 of a lot of business in Canada. Indigenous business, 00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:25.250 any different? Have you noticed a shift in approach? 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:30.750 You know, yeah, I think, so I have the pleasure, 00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:33.049 honour of sitting on the Prime Minister's Canada 00:19:33.049 --> 00:19:36.049 -US Council with respect to our relations with 00:19:36.049 --> 00:19:39.470 the US, which came after the tariff announcement. 00:19:40.910 --> 00:19:43.109 So first I would say representing Indigenous 00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:46.670 businesses at that table with entrepreneurs and... 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:53.059 union representatives and large CEOs says something 00:19:53.059 --> 00:19:55.259 about our country's commitment and the importance 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:58.079 of Indigenous business, but also a recognition 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:01.700 of how much Indigenous business has grown and 00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:05.259 our participation in supply chains and in government 00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:10.289 procurement and across the border. Recently completed 00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:12.430 two large studies with Global Affairs Canada, 00:20:12.650 --> 00:20:15.369 speaking to Indigenous businesses and trying 00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:18.769 to understand interest in export and trade and 00:20:18.769 --> 00:20:21.289 where they were currently trading. And it's actually, 00:20:21.410 --> 00:20:26.309 of the Indigenous businesses that do export, 00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:28.730 about 19 % of the revenues come from the U .S. 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:32.269 And some of those businesses, you know, up to 00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:34.450 90 % of the revenues come from the U .S., if 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.700 we think about seafood and snow crab. You know, 00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:40.880 on both of our coasts, there are a lot of indigenous 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.400 fisheries and indigenous owned businesses that 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.400 are participating in that sector. And during 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.019 COVID, definitely snow crab got hit really hard 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:55.140 just because Americans, the price of everything 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.619 in the recession was very difficult and people 00:20:57.619 --> 00:20:59.740 just chose not to purchase. I mean, this is a 00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:03.559 bit different with the tariffs and with the tariffs 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.779 from the Chinese on seafood that have come out 00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:09.160 as well. that sector is going to really need 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.720 to find other customers to work with. And we 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.460 see that across the board as well. And a number 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.599 of our businesses and Indigenous people are very 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.859 active in the supply chains of oil and gas, mining, 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:30.220 forestry, agricultural, all areas that could 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:33.299 be very impacted depending how the tariff situation. 00:21:34.820 --> 00:21:37.799 or continues. Here today, gone tomorrow. Exactly. 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:40.460 Here tomorrow, gone today. It is like so difficult 00:21:40.460 --> 00:21:45.779 to keep up with what the ever -changing tweets 00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:49.920 really. So we're really watching those sectors 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.660 and the impact on those sectors because it's 00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:55.200 not, those sectors have worked very hard to increase 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.339 their supply chains from Indigenous businesses 00:21:58.339 --> 00:22:01.240 and also the participation of Indigenous people 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:04.299 in. their organization. So it's not just going 00:22:04.299 --> 00:22:07.160 to impact, you know, an entrepreneur, but also 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.779 a family. And a lot of, in Canada, in Indigenous 00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:13.000 communities, a number of Indigenous communities 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.319 have what is called a Economic Development Corporation, 00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:19.859 which is a corporation that's established to 00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:23.960 kind of remove the business from the politics 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.000 of chief and council. And a number of those corporations 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.099 have various businesses underneath them, but 00:22:30.099 --> 00:22:33.160 many of them are participating in oil and gas, 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:40.900 in mining, in lumber. So those corporations build 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:43.079 a revenue, but some of that revenue goes back 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:45.299 to invest back into the community, back into 00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:48.460 programming and daycare, some clean water. So 00:22:48.460 --> 00:22:50.779 if we see a downturn in those economies that 00:22:50.779 --> 00:22:53.259 impact those development corporations, it's going 00:22:53.259 --> 00:22:56.039 to have a ripple effect to communities as well. 00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:58.220 So that's something we're definitely advocating 00:22:58.220 --> 00:23:02.170 to ensure that supports. are provided to those 00:23:02.170 --> 00:23:05.109 organizations or if there are reciprocal tariffs 00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:09.250 that Canada recognizes the impact that may happen. 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:13.150 And then some of our members, you know, had really 00:23:13.150 --> 00:23:15.150 strong business plans to enter into the U .S. 00:23:15.150 --> 00:23:17.769 market. So we have a member, Birchbark Coffee, 00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:22.049 who supplies coffee to Costco in Canada and was 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:25.690 in their business plan to move into the U .S. 00:23:25.690 --> 00:23:28.480 market. So they've, you know, and they've made 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:30.519 investments to get into those markets. And now 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.880 they're having to think about what their alternative 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.519 is. So we're definitely working on, you know, 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.680 support for other markets. And that's why these 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:44.980 conversations, you know, even if the summit is 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:47.279 about investment, it's also about building and 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.160 strengthening those relationships between Canada 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:54.019 and the UK and ensuring that, you know, people 00:23:54.019 --> 00:23:56.660 in the UK understand. the wealth and breadth 00:23:56.660 --> 00:24:00.420 and skill and expertise of Indigenous business. 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.579 So, you know, and it could be little things. 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.619 So we're working with the government of Canada 00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:08.000 on ensuring that there's Indigenous businesses 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.980 in like the buy list or the catalog for ambassadors 00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:16.619 across the globe to have gifts from Indigenous 00:24:16.619 --> 00:24:19.440 business and to be serving Indigenous coffee 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.440 in, you know, when they have people come to their 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.329 homes. And some of that is happening already, 00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:27.970 but I think there's a lot more opportunity. And 00:24:27.970 --> 00:24:32.950 then also just working on supporting Indigenous 00:24:32.950 --> 00:24:35.450 businesses to be export ready and to look for 00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:37.730 other alternatives. And then, of course, within 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:41.650 Canada, breaking down our own provincial barriers 00:24:41.650 --> 00:24:45.329 of trade that some of our members say it's easier 00:24:45.329 --> 00:24:48.130 to sell to the U .S. than it is to sell to another 00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:50.769 province. Which is crazy. Right? It really is. 00:24:50.789 --> 00:24:55.029 We're one country. Yeah. Outside of Canada, I 00:24:55.029 --> 00:24:57.609 don't think people really appreciate how strong 00:24:57.609 --> 00:25:00.190 the provinces are. They control natural resource 00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:04.869 trade, securities for a long time. It's a very 00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:07.430 decentralized form of government. You've got 00:25:07.430 --> 00:25:09.430 a massive land mass. If you're going to convince 00:25:09.430 --> 00:25:12.089 everybody to be part of one country, one way 00:25:12.089 --> 00:25:15.369 to do that is to give a lot of power to each 00:25:15.369 --> 00:25:17.069 of those parts of the country. And we've got 00:25:17.069 --> 00:25:19.670 provincial... Freer trade in the European Union 00:25:19.670 --> 00:25:23.599 than there is in Canada. A German and a French 00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.720 person will tell you I'm different than them, 00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:28.559 but they've been able to have a single market 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:33.079 for goods for a long time. And hopefully the 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.700 crisis that Canada is going through will be used 00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:38.420 to remove some of these barriers. So it's great 00:25:38.420 --> 00:25:40.259 that CCIB is fighting because you're not only 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:41.920 fighting for indigenous business by breaking 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.220 down those barriers, all businesses will benefit. 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.680 Yes. The whole Canadian economy will benefit. 00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:49.819 And we'll all rise up together. Do you think 00:25:49.819 --> 00:25:52.059 the political will is there to get that done? 00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:54.779 I mean, there are some helpful statements being 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:57.740 made, but do you see evidence of real intent? 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:02.400 We definitely see movement and there was definitely 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:05.720 some real commitments. But I think it's going 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.900 to take the business community also. In the past, 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:10.839 I think there has been political will, but then 00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:14.200 there's pushback from the business community 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.799 because it's also allowing competition into Europe. 00:26:17.069 --> 00:26:23.250 And if you have that market controlled, allowing 00:26:23.250 --> 00:26:27.509 new competitors to come in. So we've had definitely 00:26:27.509 --> 00:26:30.490 discussions around the council table and at other 00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:34.170 tables that it's not just about the premiers 00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:37.930 of the provinces. It's also going to take the 00:26:37.930 --> 00:26:40.809 business community to see the reciprocal benefit 00:26:40.809 --> 00:26:42.930 that will come from it. And we're not just talking 00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:46.470 goods, though. Some of it is... The size of the 00:26:46.470 --> 00:26:49.069 tires on the truck or like some trucks have to 00:26:49.069 --> 00:26:50.789 have snow tires and some don't. So it's even 00:26:50.789 --> 00:26:53.809 like a shipping issue from regulations province 00:26:53.809 --> 00:26:57.049 to province. And it's also a movement of workers 00:26:57.049 --> 00:27:01.390 and people. I mean, that is across Canada for 00:27:01.390 --> 00:27:05.230 us not to recognize someone trained in one province 00:27:05.230 --> 00:27:09.410 as they in another's. Right. But this is a political 00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:12.950 leadership issue because a business objective. 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:17.779 is to have a monopoly that's everybody goes out 00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:20.039 and fights for market share every day and nobody 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:23.019 willingly gives it up yes and sometimes they 00:27:23.019 --> 00:27:24.920 need here's the framework here's what we're going 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.079 to work on everybody's going to sacrifice and 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.440 do it the european union the single market wasn't 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.700 created because some businesses wanted but a 00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:34.579 lot were were were against it and it took the 00:27:34.579 --> 00:27:38.420 political leadership to say sorry this is this 00:27:38.420 --> 00:27:42.019 is the future Services doesn't have a single 00:27:42.019 --> 00:27:45.779 market in the European Union yet. And now with 00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:49.859 the war in Ukraine and the issues with the Americans, 00:27:50.059 --> 00:27:53.319 now they're starting to push on that very much 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.759 again. Some banks, yeah, we want to be across 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:01.559 the EU, but they're the resistance. And it has 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.380 to be the political leadership as it was Margaret 00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:07.950 Thatcher. Good or bad. She created the single 00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:09.890 market in Europe. That was the price for getting 00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:13.789 the UK in. Sad they left, but that was the price 00:28:13.789 --> 00:28:15.410 for getting in. It takes political leadership 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:19.470 and hopefully that's what we'll see in the future 00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:22.049 in the country and organizations like the CCIB 00:28:22.049 --> 00:28:25.470 who are neutral, right? Because you're representing 00:28:25.470 --> 00:28:28.970 all the businesses across the country saying, 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:31.529 here's what our businesses need to compete because 00:28:31.529 --> 00:28:35.250 if we don't get the scale in Canada. We won't 00:28:35.250 --> 00:28:37.869 compete. We're a country of 40 million. That's 00:28:37.869 --> 00:28:40.069 not too much smaller than some European countries 00:28:40.069 --> 00:28:42.930 and larger than a lot. But if we're chopped up 00:28:42.930 --> 00:28:46.230 into little markets, 4 million here, 12 million, 00:28:46.369 --> 00:28:49.690 not a hope. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely demonstrated, 00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:54.130 I mean, as we say often, you know, every crisis 00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:55.789 is an opportunity. But I think it's also really 00:28:55.789 --> 00:28:59.069 demonstrated how reliant we are. On the U .S. 00:28:59.069 --> 00:29:01.789 and how businesses are choosing to trade with 00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:03.549 the U .S. versus trade within their province. 00:29:03.589 --> 00:29:07.269 And we need to really be looking at how we're 00:29:07.269 --> 00:29:08.869 going to open up those markets. And also that 00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:12.930 is when the free trade debates, which all of 00:29:12.930 --> 00:29:15.650 us remember that was a big discussion. It wasn't, 00:29:15.650 --> 00:29:17.950 you know, go back to Sir John A. Macdonald and 00:29:17.950 --> 00:29:20.869 Laurier about what are we going to do in terms 00:29:20.869 --> 00:29:23.630 of market access with the U .S. It's been an 00:29:23.630 --> 00:29:26.210 existential question for Canada all the time. 00:29:27.019 --> 00:29:30.460 There was a huge thing if we were giving up our 00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:32.900 sovereignty and we'll be in trouble if we go 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:36.660 for a free trade agreement with the US, which 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:40.279 we first did and then Mexico joined later. So 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:43.359 this is a little bit of the consequences of that 00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.779 because it is easier. If you're in a single market, 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.319 of course you're going to compete there. So hopefully 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.640 this reduces those barriers so companies can 00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:56.250 compete. effectively and be more competitive 00:29:56.250 --> 00:29:59.250 and then they can export abroad like to the uk 00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:02.170 yeah yeah and i think it's also opening up lots 00:30:02.170 --> 00:30:05.890 of opportunities for uh infrastructure build 00:30:05.890 --> 00:30:09.789 in across canada as well and you know investing 00:30:09.789 --> 00:30:12.609 back into projects across canada on infrastructure 00:30:12.609 --> 00:30:16.369 and and for indigenous businesses and and communities 00:30:16.369 --> 00:30:18.750 that's an incredible opportunity for them to 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:21.410 be part of the economy and part of the build 00:30:21.410 --> 00:30:25.490 and and being able to have own source revenue 00:30:25.490 --> 00:30:29.529 within communities. And even in supply chains, 00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:32.650 we know lots of corporations are looking within 00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:34.630 their supply chains at where they're purchasing 00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:39.190 from now and in the Buy Canada campaign. We've 00:30:39.190 --> 00:30:41.930 launched a Buy Indigenous to Buy Canada campaign 00:30:41.930 --> 00:30:46.130 with a logo that can be downloaded and buttons 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:47.769 and stickers. And I will tell you, people are 00:30:47.769 --> 00:30:50.579 like... calling to purchase the buttons and stickers. 00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.339 The like views and downloads that we've had of 00:30:54.339 --> 00:30:57.000 this logo for people to put onto their websites 00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.380 is more than we've ever seen. Like definitely 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:02.579 our best campaign ever. You know, the more that 00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:04.960 we can ensure that people understand that there 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.039 are Indigenous businesses in every sector. So 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.680 sometimes we might meet with a corporation. I 00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.940 mean, procurement is one of our biggest priorities. 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:15.599 We see it as a huge opportunity to build the 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.619 Indigenous economy. And we might meet with a 00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:21.160 corporation who's like, well, I don't buy anything 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.440 that an Indigenous business would make. And we 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.019 have to, you know, do you buy coffee? Do you 00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:30.279 buy pens? Do you do graphic design? Even if you're 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.319 not a huge company that does a lot of buying, 00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:37.839 everything that you are purchasing, there's an 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.339 Indigenous business that can do that. Us, ourselves, 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:45.220 as a not -for -profit, and we do a lot of travel, 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.190 so that's a lot of our expenses. Last year, our 00:31:48.190 --> 00:31:50.769 spend with Indigenous business was over 25 % 00:31:50.769 --> 00:31:54.250 of our spend. And that's from graphic design 00:31:54.250 --> 00:31:58.269 to web design to the events that we put on to 00:31:58.269 --> 00:32:00.990 if we're hosting an event, we ensure we're doing 00:32:00.990 --> 00:32:06.269 it at a First Nation -owned hotel. So there's 00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:09.529 a real opportunity here for us to have people 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:12.269 ensure that they're replacing a U .S. business 00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:15.509 with a First Nation -owned or Métis -owned business. 00:32:16.109 --> 00:32:18.630 Let's back up to some of the delegates you met 00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:21.029 at the summit and the perspective coming from 00:32:21.029 --> 00:32:24.650 the UK. So you're looking, and let's say you're 00:32:24.650 --> 00:32:26.849 a corporate, you don't have a subsidiary in Canada 00:32:26.849 --> 00:32:28.970 yet. Let's do two scenarios. You don't have a 00:32:28.970 --> 00:32:31.970 subsidiary and you're an enterprise, right? Large 00:32:31.970 --> 00:32:36.029 business. So who should I talk to first? Because, 00:32:36.029 --> 00:32:38.269 you know, we've decided Canada is on the radar. 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:41.849 We're interested in different sector. Do we go 00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:43.750 start talking to communities first? Is it worth 00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:47.130 checking in with CCIB to give us some guidance 00:32:47.130 --> 00:32:51.250 on what to do? Yeah, always come. We do have 00:32:51.250 --> 00:32:54.549 many delegations that approach us if they're 00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:59.009 coming to Canada to just understand working with 00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:02.650 Indigenous business or communities. But there 00:33:02.650 --> 00:33:05.170 are lots of other organizations and leaders that 00:33:05.170 --> 00:33:08.069 were at the summit. First Nation Major Projects 00:33:08.069 --> 00:33:10.430 Coalition works with a number of communities. 00:33:10.769 --> 00:33:14.029 So they have an understanding of like what type 00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:16.470 of sectors those communities want to potentially 00:33:16.470 --> 00:33:19.309 participate in or if there's a project already 00:33:19.309 --> 00:33:21.769 in existence that maybe there's an investment 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:25.789 opportunity for. Canada Infrastructure Bank as 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:29.549 well. They are investing in significant projects 00:33:29.549 --> 00:33:31.569 in communities that are building infrastructure 00:33:31.569 --> 00:33:35.529 but are also revenue generating. We're going 00:33:35.529 --> 00:33:37.910 to have Hilary Thatcher, the Managing Director 00:33:37.910 --> 00:33:40.930 there of Indigenous Investments, with us on an 00:33:40.930 --> 00:33:43.910 upcoming podcast. Yeah, and they have really 00:33:43.910 --> 00:33:47.609 made some incredible projects come to fruition 00:33:47.609 --> 00:33:51.269 through both their investment in it, but then 00:33:51.269 --> 00:33:53.910 also private investment and government investment. 00:33:53.990 --> 00:33:57.490 So really looking at all the options on a project 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.799 and extremely good. due diligence on that project, 00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:04.299 really evaluating if that project is, you know, 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.579 the risk around it and the revenue around it. 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:09.599 You know, if you're a corporation and wanting 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.139 to work with Indigenous business, you know, to 00:34:13.139 --> 00:34:16.280 bring in culture into your organization, we're 00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:20.000 definitely the place to go for that. But I think, 00:34:20.019 --> 00:34:23.019 you know, the Indigenous economic economy, as 00:34:23.019 --> 00:34:27.039 you probably saw at the summit, we all know each 00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.130 other and work closely together. That's clear. 00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:33.550 Yeah. It's friendly competition, but we're all 00:34:33.550 --> 00:34:38.809 in this together. And we're all trying to create 00:34:38.809 --> 00:34:40.909 a piece that works together, right? So we're 00:34:40.909 --> 00:34:43.469 really supporting entrepreneurs and businesses, 00:34:43.809 --> 00:34:46.610 community -owned businesses from training or 00:34:46.610 --> 00:34:48.789 procurement or those corporate partnerships or 00:34:48.789 --> 00:34:51.670 government advocacy. But there's other organizations 00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:55.710 that do financing for businesses. There's other 00:34:55.710 --> 00:34:58.769 organizations who do financing for projects in 00:34:58.769 --> 00:35:02.590 community. But it's going to take all of us to 00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:04.409 be, you know, doing the best that we can and 00:35:04.409 --> 00:35:06.289 the work that we do to bring together. What is 00:35:06.289 --> 00:35:09.230 great, and it's sort of relatively new. It's 00:35:09.230 --> 00:35:12.349 not even 10 years old yet, I don't think. CCIB 00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:16.110 has been around for 41 years. But some of the 00:35:16.110 --> 00:35:18.670 other organizations you've talked about are much 00:35:18.670 --> 00:35:21.070 younger. But the impact you're all having now. 00:35:21.449 --> 00:35:24.070 is much different than, say, even 10 years ago, 00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.849 I think. Either way, the ecosystem now of Indigenous 00:35:26.849 --> 00:35:31.849 -led institutions, organizations, is really, 00:35:31.889 --> 00:35:34.989 really incredible and inspiring to see the way 00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:37.469 they're all working together. Different perspectives 00:35:37.469 --> 00:35:40.309 and different areas of expertise in one common 00:35:40.309 --> 00:35:43.210 goal. Yeah. So let's go to the other scenario. 00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:46.409 I'm a corporate. There's some big companies in 00:35:46.409 --> 00:35:52.119 the UK who have subsidiaries in Canada. Now, 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.099 say they were at the summit or they've heard 00:35:54.099 --> 00:35:58.380 about Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit and 00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:01.300 just Indigenous business and there's something 00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:04.019 going on. Where would they go to kind of get, 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.420 how can they get an assessment of their subsidiary? 00:36:06.460 --> 00:36:08.400 Because they're holding their directors and CEOs 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:13.199 responsible. We have all worked in head offices 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:18.179 with country markets and GMs who don't want to 00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:21.090 share that with the head office. Where can they 00:36:21.090 --> 00:36:23.769 go to get an assessment or perspective that they 00:36:23.769 --> 00:36:26.489 can set metrics and benchmarks for their subsidiary? 00:36:26.570 --> 00:36:29.070 Would that be yourselves? Yes. Yeah, definitely 00:36:29.070 --> 00:36:32.170 for a corporation. So we have a program called 00:36:32.170 --> 00:36:34.869 Partnership Accreditation and Indigenous Relations 00:36:34.869 --> 00:36:39.610 that has been, I think we're on like year 23 00:36:39.610 --> 00:36:44.250 of that program. We have about 250 organizations 00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:46.889 across Canada who are either going through the 00:36:46.889 --> 00:36:49.170 program or are certified in the program. And 00:36:49.170 --> 00:36:53.289 it's kind of like a B Corp certification, except 00:36:53.289 --> 00:36:56.070 it's how you're working with Indigenous businesses, 00:36:56.469 --> 00:37:01.150 communities, your Indigenous employees. So there's 00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:03.369 a lot of subsidiaries. There's a lot of global. 00:37:03.949 --> 00:37:05.730 corporations that their Canada operations are 00:37:05.730 --> 00:37:08.090 in that program today. All of the major banks, 00:37:08.250 --> 00:37:11.110 a lot of mining firms, a lot of resource sector 00:37:11.110 --> 00:37:14.949 firms. And a lot of them have actually said, 00:37:15.050 --> 00:37:18.710 can you make this so it could apply globally 00:37:18.710 --> 00:37:21.590 so our other partners in other countries could 00:37:21.590 --> 00:37:25.349 also be doing, could have the same type of accreditation? 00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:28.690 And we are looking at that. It's a bit down the 00:37:28.690 --> 00:37:32.599 road for sure. But there's lots of... particularly 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:34.719 in countries that have indigenous populations. 00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.960 There's lots of lessons that can be transferred 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:43.280 from those organizations. So if I'm a corporate 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.059 here in the UK listening to the podcast and my 00:37:47.059 --> 00:37:50.159 end country management in Canada hasn't told 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.460 me about this, I think I'm going to go check 00:37:52.460 --> 00:37:54.320 them out and ask them, do you have this certification 00:37:54.320 --> 00:38:01.639 that you have? Yeah. And this is like, Definitely 00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:05.460 something that is changing every day, and the 00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:08.400 U .S. administration is having an impact on that 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.639 as well. But as corporations are looking at their 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.619 ESG scores or how they're operating in a market 00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:19.840 or what do consumers feel about them, in Canada, 00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:24.360 it's becoming more and more important to look 00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.800 at how businesses are working with Indigenous 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:32.159 communities and people. Asking through proxies 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:34.659 and demanding through proxies that corporations 00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:38.079 have what we would call a reconciliation action 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:40.480 plan or an indigenous inclusion strategy and 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.360 that they have a program around procurement from 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:47.860 indigenous businesses. So the Toronto Stock Exchange, 00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:52.820 they had a shareholder proxy. Sun Life had a 00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:55.840 shareholder proxy. A couple other companies. 00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:59.000 And many of them didn't even have to get to the 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.820 board, the management. agreed. And that was the 00:39:01.820 --> 00:39:05.320 case with Toronto Stock Exchange. And the result 00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:07.619 of that is that they entered into our pair program. 00:39:08.340 --> 00:39:12.500 The program requires that the board has a mandate 00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:14.800 around how they're working with Indigenous people. 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.860 So it's also from a leadership perspective. I 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:22.059 sit on a couple boards and it's not just something 00:39:22.059 --> 00:39:25.309 that comes up maybe in your governance committee 00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:27.210 meeting, but it's really something that the board 00:39:27.210 --> 00:39:30.150 has ownership over, which is so important because 00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:32.269 it needs to be across your company, not just 00:39:32.269 --> 00:39:34.730 within your, if you have an Indigenous relations 00:39:34.730 --> 00:39:38.170 team, but there's also a requirement that you 00:39:38.170 --> 00:39:39.690 have a working group that has representatives 00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:41.989 from your business development team and your 00:39:41.989 --> 00:39:45.070 comms team and your HR team. So everybody is 00:39:45.070 --> 00:39:47.630 committed to looking with whatever work they're 00:39:47.630 --> 00:39:49.349 doing at how they're working with Indigenous 00:39:49.349 --> 00:39:53.400 people. You have three years to look at what 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.239 you can do and set targets. And then at the end 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.500 of those three years, we have Indigenous business 00:39:59.500 --> 00:40:03.219 leaders who go into the organization. They meet 00:40:03.219 --> 00:40:05.199 with the communities that you work with. They 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:06.960 meet with your Indigenous employees. They look 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.179 at your spend. And then they make a recommendation 00:40:09.179 --> 00:40:12.460 at your certification level. And then you have 00:40:12.460 --> 00:40:14.039 to renew your certification every three years. 00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:16.320 So you can't just get the certification and then 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:20.360 stop doing the good work. And we have members 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.360 that have... continue to renew and maybe they 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.119 get bronze the first year and they work even 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:28.639 harder to hit silver or gold. And we even see 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.420 a little bit of competition in certain sectors, 00:40:30.539 --> 00:40:32.900 like with the banks or law firms or energy firms, 00:40:33.019 --> 00:40:35.659 if one's gold certified and one isn't. And it's 00:40:35.659 --> 00:40:38.639 making an impact on Indigenous economy and businesses 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:43.340 because they're wanting to do better. And we've 00:40:43.340 --> 00:40:45.880 had some conversations as well with the Stock 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:48.559 Exchange, looking at the performance of those 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:51.010 companies that are certified. Versus all other 00:40:51.010 --> 00:40:54.809 company, SP500 companies, and it shows a 20 basis 00:40:54.809 --> 00:40:58.110 points improvement of the companies that are 00:40:58.110 --> 00:41:01.289 certified. So there's also, you know, there's 00:41:01.289 --> 00:41:02.909 some corporations who are doing it because they 00:41:02.909 --> 00:41:04.969 understand truth and reconciliation and they 00:41:04.969 --> 00:41:06.690 want to be a better business. And there's some 00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:08.489 that need to know what the return of investment 00:41:08.489 --> 00:41:10.590 is because it's not an easy certification to 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:13.789 get. And I think as we continue to see change 00:41:13.789 --> 00:41:18.179 in the U .S. backing away from DEI programs and 00:41:18.179 --> 00:41:20.820 supplier diversity. We're really watching those 00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:23.239 corporations that have operation in Canada and 00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:26.239 are members of ours or not to see if they will 00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:30.440 also back away. But the difference is Indigenous 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:32.900 people in Canada are constitutional rights holders. 00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:37.760 This is not a program. This is a fundamental 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:42.409 right. Exactly. And we're being very clear. To 00:41:42.409 --> 00:41:45.570 ensure that corporations in Canada remember that, 00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:49.929 that Indigenous procurement is a, you know, it's 00:41:49.929 --> 00:41:51.869 the obligation of every Canadian, every corporate 00:41:51.869 --> 00:41:56.570 Canadian who has benefited from Indigenous people 00:41:56.570 --> 00:41:58.789 being excluded from the economy. Yes. And they 00:41:58.789 --> 00:42:01.949 all have a role to play in reconciling that. 00:42:02.050 --> 00:42:05.690 And this is a way of doing that. And we're seeing 00:42:05.690 --> 00:42:08.860 great... We're not seeing organizations back 00:42:08.860 --> 00:42:10.780 away. It's not really taking a lot of convincing, 00:42:10.900 --> 00:42:12.880 but it's definitely something that we're watching. 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.780 And it's important for shareholders, consumers, 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:20.860 for where people want to work as well. So for 00:42:20.860 --> 00:42:25.179 a global firm here in the UK who has a subsidiary 00:42:25.179 --> 00:42:27.840 in Canada, it's important for that corporation 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:32.500 in Canada to be working towards supporting Indigenous 00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:37.409 people in various ways. Like the para -certification 00:42:37.409 --> 00:42:40.570 program is definitely a place where people can 00:42:40.570 --> 00:42:42.909 really understand what work they're doing. Great. 00:42:42.969 --> 00:42:45.210 And they can find that on your website. Yeah. 00:42:46.090 --> 00:42:48.989 Tabitha, thanks again for taking the time to 00:42:48.989 --> 00:42:51.929 visit with us. We could have gone on and on and 00:42:51.929 --> 00:42:55.489 maybe in a future episode we will. But for now, 00:42:55.489 --> 00:42:57.849 Nyawan, thank you for joining us. Thank you for 00:42:57.849 --> 00:43:00.170 having me. Miigwech. Thank you very much. It's 00:43:00.170 --> 00:43:03.769 been great. Thank you. Thank you to Tabitha Bull 00:43:03.769 --> 00:43:06.449 for sharing her insights with us. And thank you 00:43:06.449 --> 00:43:08.849 for viewing and listening. Be sure to share, 00:43:08.989 --> 00:43:11.050 subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite 00:43:11.050 --> 00:43:14.070 podcast channel. Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. 00:43:14.170 --> 00:43:15.250 Until next time.