WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:03.020 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.020 --> 00:00:05.679 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:08.640 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.039 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.779 I'm Mark McNacca, and my co -host Robert Brandt 00:00:14.779 --> 00:00:17.000 and I are joined today by Honourable Greg Rickford. 00:00:17.500 --> 00:00:20.199 Greg is the Minister of Indigenous Affairs and 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.420 First Nations Economic Reconciliation. Greg is 00:00:23.420 --> 00:00:25.600 also the Minister responsible for Ring of Fire 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.949 Economic and Community Partnerships. Ontario 00:00:28.949 --> 00:00:30.750 has long been one of the major manufacturing 00:00:30.750 --> 00:00:33.850 centres in Canada. However, with the increasing 00:00:33.850 --> 00:00:36.969 electrification of everything, attention is now 00:00:36.969 --> 00:00:39.229 shifting towards the province's potential in 00:00:39.229 --> 00:00:41.630 the critical minerals sector. Many have heard 00:00:41.630 --> 00:00:44.090 about the Ring of Fire, but where and what is 00:00:44.090 --> 00:00:49.289 it exactly? The Honourable Greg Rickford, Ontario's 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:53.310 Minister of Indigenous Affairs, First Nations 00:00:53.310 --> 00:00:58.060 Economic Reconciliation. and the Ring of Fire. 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:01.719 And the minister responsible for economic and 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:04.140 community partnerships in the Ring of Fire. Shared 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:06.140 responsibility with my good friend and colleague, 00:01:06.219 --> 00:01:08.980 the Minister of Mines and Energy, Stephen Lecce. 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:11.840 So quite a few hats, and we appreciate you taking 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.359 time out to talk to us on Drumbeats. Why don't 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:17.200 you explain to our audience a bit about your 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.379 personal background, history, how you got to 00:01:20.379 --> 00:01:23.700 be in the position you are today? Well, you know, 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:27.920 I started out as a nurse, actually, way back 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:32.180 in the day. Had an opportunity fairly quickly 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:36.819 to pursue my passion, which was to live in northern 00:01:36.819 --> 00:01:41.640 Canada proper. And got some really good experience 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:44.939 in hospitals in southern Canada and the United 00:01:44.939 --> 00:01:48.599 States and then went north. It just sort of evolved 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.500 from there. I'm a lifelong learner and back in 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:55.099 and out of school and eventually finished law 00:01:55.099 --> 00:01:58.959 school at McGill. And within three or four years 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:03.959 of living in Kenora, northwestern Ontario, Kuwait 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.459 actually, in a legal practice, an opportunity 00:02:07.459 --> 00:02:10.659 to pursue my, you know, one of my superordinate 00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:16.259 goals was to get into politics. And, you know, 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.639 as a nurse and as a lawyer, you'd know, Rob, 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.699 politicians, the central feature of all of those 00:02:22.699 --> 00:02:25.900 professions is advocacy. So I kind of felt like 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:30.360 I came by it honestly. And it's just been an 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.319 extraordinary journey. I did seven years as the 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:36.259 federal member of parliament for Canora, had 00:02:36.259 --> 00:02:39.479 a chance to serve as Canada's Minister of Science 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:42.319 and Technology, then the Minister of Natural 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:46.389 Resources. For the last almost three years of 00:02:46.389 --> 00:02:50.270 Prime Minister Harper's tenure as Prime Minister. 00:02:50.430 --> 00:02:53.750 And then, you know, the electorate, the way that 00:02:53.750 --> 00:02:57.750 it is, lost a tight race in 2015 and returned 00:02:57.750 --> 00:03:00.310 to my law practice. And a couple of years later, 00:03:00.409 --> 00:03:03.330 the bug was still there. And I'm a big fan of 00:03:03.330 --> 00:03:06.169 Premier Ford. It was an extraordinary opportunity 00:03:06.169 --> 00:03:10.090 from the outset. One of the few people in... 00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:13.919 in the new government that had cabinet experience. 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:19.539 So I had a lot of portfolios and kind of brings 00:03:19.539 --> 00:03:24.419 us to where we are today. As time has marched 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:26.939 on the past six years and a bit with Premier 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:29.580 Ford, he's really come to understand, but more 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:32.860 importantly, appreciate, you know, what an extraordinary 00:03:32.860 --> 00:03:36.639 opportunity we have in Ontario and particularly 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:42.349 in Northern Ontario. writ large with First Nations 00:03:42.349 --> 00:03:44.949 communities and First Nations businesses. And 00:03:44.949 --> 00:03:49.169 so with that appreciation came a sharpened focus 00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:52.189 on building the Ministry of Indigenous Affairs 00:03:52.189 --> 00:03:57.610 out. As I said at the conference, the addition 00:03:57.610 --> 00:04:01.729 of First Nations economic reconciliation just 00:04:01.729 --> 00:04:06.469 about a year ago was really his sense and mine 00:04:06.469 --> 00:04:10.909 a long time that... economic reconciliation was 00:04:10.909 --> 00:04:16.189 the next chapter in the journey if you will that 00:04:16.189 --> 00:04:20.689 canada and for our purposes ontario ought to 00:04:20.689 --> 00:04:25.230 prioritize it wasn't our opinion it was an assessment 00:04:25.230 --> 00:04:28.850 of what we were seeing uh and hearing from first 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:34.610 nations leadership not confined just to the political 00:04:34.610 --> 00:04:39.110 arena but but more importantly, a much higher 00:04:39.110 --> 00:04:42.490 profile of Indigenous business leaders across 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:47.410 the country. And what brings us to, you know, 00:04:47.430 --> 00:04:51.329 the Ring of Fire responsibilities. Can I just 00:04:51.329 --> 00:04:52.870 stop you for a second? Because you mentioned 00:04:52.870 --> 00:04:55.290 the conference. Yeah. And you were in London 00:04:55.290 --> 00:04:58.750 for the second annual Canadian Indigenous Investment 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.449 Summit. You very kindly spent the entire day 00:05:02.449 --> 00:05:06.490 with us and more than one person remarked, more 00:05:06.490 --> 00:05:08.829 than one person remarked, and it was noticed 00:05:08.829 --> 00:05:12.410 by me too, that in many cases you have a minister 00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:15.689 attending, speaking at a conference as you did. 00:05:15.810 --> 00:05:18.610 They will come in with their team for the designated 00:05:18.610 --> 00:05:22.069 slot, leave immediately after. You spent the 00:05:22.069 --> 00:05:27.550 entire day with us and were around and reflected 00:05:27.550 --> 00:05:32.120 at the end of the day. The gathering about reflection 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:35.120 rattled off my list of words and phrases that 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.459 I'd picked up. So maybe for our audience, just 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:39.600 some of those reflections, if you can recall. 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.860 I mentioned that I'm a lifelong learner and it's 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:47.899 my own style, but I really enjoy these conferences. 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.399 And there is a tendency for cabinet ministers, 00:05:51.620 --> 00:05:54.279 government folks to pop in and out of conferences. 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.680 It's understandable in some respects. There's 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.949 a lot of demands on their time. But London's 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:05.170 a long way away from home. And frankly, I made 00:06:05.170 --> 00:06:07.870 this my absolute priority because I just thought, 00:06:08.029 --> 00:06:11.050 wow, look at the lineup of people, yourselves 00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:16.569 included, and the panels. Just at times riveting. 00:06:17.509 --> 00:06:21.290 And just a positive environment to be around. 00:06:21.389 --> 00:06:23.750 I don't know how you walk away from that. So 00:06:23.750 --> 00:06:27.899 I certainly couldn't. Really just humbled that 00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:29.980 I got a chance to participate in it, frankly. 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.279 And what were your takeaways when you were reported 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:38.000 back to your colleagues in Cabinet and the Premier? 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.379 I just think it's a really good day and a really 00:06:41.379 --> 00:06:46.459 good thing when we spend time talking about opportunities, 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:51.339 specifically for Indigenous business and their 00:06:51.339 --> 00:06:56.230 leaders. For us in Ontario, as I said, This is 00:06:56.230 --> 00:07:00.970 the way of the future, how we do business. People 00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:06.350 will judge and form their opinions, I think, 00:07:06.350 --> 00:07:11.269 based on how important we play the emphasis that 00:07:11.269 --> 00:07:14.910 we place on the participation and partnerships 00:07:14.910 --> 00:07:17.579 with First Nations communities. And the businesses 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:22.500 that are fast becoming very sophisticated, very 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:25.100 prominent in large -scale legacy infrastructure 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:30.319 and resource projects. To see those folks, many 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:33.959 of them I bump into, you know, at home and across 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:37.560 the country. Sean Willey, guys like him I've 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:41.259 known for a very long time. And it's cool. It's 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:45.639 not partisan, you know. First Nations. politics 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:50.180 in general is not overly partisan. So you feel 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:52.639 very comfortable in the environment on a political 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:56.220 level. But for business, it goes without saying, 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:59.300 we've got some great people. And I think the 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:02.660 summit reflected that. That's great. And certainly 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:05.319 it was a good time because with what's going 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:07.920 on with America and Premier Ford has been out 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.079 there speaking on behalf of Canada and fighting 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.300 the battle. And the way forward includes Indigenous 00:08:14.300 --> 00:08:17.519 people. If Canada's going to succeed and diversify, 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.959 it has to do it with the Indigenous people and 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.100 reinforce our role as a global energy superpower. 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:27.800 We're top 10 in a number of areas and that just 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:29.360 needs to be strengthened. Ontario's going to 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.299 be. Very important in that. And come to the ring 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:36.600 of fire and critical minerals because everybody 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:39.039 talks about that. And that's something that people 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:42.179 know over here. Oh, what is this ring of fire 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:44.799 all about? Right. What's going on with that? 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:49.019 So just a couple comments before we jump into 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:52.740 the ring of fire. Ontario has a massive profile 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:57.320 in base metals and critical minerals. The ring 00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:00.700 of fire in particular is an exquisite. quantitatively 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:06.639 and qualitatively deposit, plural, of the lion's 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:09.399 share of what we categorically refer to as critical 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:14.600 minerals. But you also have to have some baseline 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:19.039 capacity when you talk about the ring of fire. 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:22.159 And Ontario has that in spades. We have obviously 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.919 the Sudbury Basin, which is a world -class caliber 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.429 nickel deposits, amongst other things. We have 00:09:28.429 --> 00:09:30.990 other critical mineral deposits in other parts 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:33.389 of northern Ontario, particularly in northwestern 00:09:33.389 --> 00:09:37.730 Ontario, with lithium coming on board. But the 00:09:37.730 --> 00:09:42.350 Ring of Fire is located some 400 to 500 kilometers 00:09:42.350 --> 00:09:46.970 north of the last highway, if you will. Think 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:50.409 of it as a corridor from Toronto to Montreal, 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:57.549 but through one of the James Bay lowlands. a 00:09:57.549 --> 00:10:01.669 world -renowned carbon sink and frankly as somebody 00:10:01.669 --> 00:10:04.710 who has lived there for extended periods of time 00:10:04.710 --> 00:10:08.350 obviously not my life but but uh working up north 00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:11.429 in many of the communities proximal to the ring 00:10:11.429 --> 00:10:14.190 of fire as a nurse i have a deep appreciation 00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:17.990 for the land and the relationship that indigenous 00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:21.330 peoples have with it and so we want to be very 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:25.029 careful in its development but We've taken a 00:10:25.029 --> 00:10:27.649 decidedly different approach than previous governments 00:10:27.649 --> 00:10:31.190 and really invested in First Nations leadership, 00:10:31.610 --> 00:10:33.230 especially when it comes to the environmental 00:10:33.230 --> 00:10:37.750 assessments. They're nearly completed. And the 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:40.690 Corridor to Prosperity, as I had named it a number 00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:43.789 of years ago, I think we're hopeful that we can 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:48.250 start that fairly soon. In some respects, we 00:10:48.250 --> 00:10:52.360 already have because we're developing. what we 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.399 call the Greenstone area. It's a large municipality 00:10:55.399 --> 00:11:00.200 that sits at the base of just off the Trans -Canada, 00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:06.379 ultimately form a major corridor that has to 00:11:06.379 --> 00:11:09.820 be a couple of kilometers wide. We're going to 00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:12.919 talk about major machinery to build something 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:16.139 like that. It's interesting because the mine 00:11:16.139 --> 00:11:19.059 sites themselves will be relatively small in 00:11:19.059 --> 00:11:23.159 scale. to the infrastructure itself but i would 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:26.000 just close on that preliminary question mark 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.539 by saying that this particular region where the 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:34.279 ring of fire is located is very remote and the 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:37.320 five or six communities that are closest to it 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.860 are the last five or six communities in the province 00:11:39.860 --> 00:11:43.340 that are still on diesel generation for electricity 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:47.860 hard to believe yes but We want to ensure that 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:50.419 the communities are key partners, obviously, 00:11:50.539 --> 00:11:53.940 but also benefit from development in the region. 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:59.299 Yes. And road access, I think, is for a number 00:11:59.299 --> 00:12:02.580 of reasons. If you think about it, it's not just 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:05.360 about reaching prospective, no pun intended, 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:08.600 mining sites, but also to connect communities 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:12.759 to those resource development projects and for 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.399 the benefit of better health, social, economic. 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:20.179 capacity and infrastructure moving forward. Yes. 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:21.980 Thank you for that. There's a question about 00:12:21.980 --> 00:12:25.279 where's the added value, the processing. And 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:29.820 China has that capacity. And even though a lot 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:31.379 of people around the world talk, oh, critical 00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:34.039 minerals, there's deposits here. Will it be the 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.220 objective in Ontario and Canada to be processing 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:41.860 the critical minerals there? Or will it just... 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:44.779 Absolutely, Mark. We already do it with base 00:12:44.779 --> 00:12:48.519 metals. Gold is obviously processed on site and 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:54.240 Ontario yields about 50 % of Canada's annual 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:59.000 production of gold. We have some very high yield 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.220 gold mines. But in the critical mineral space, 00:13:02.539 --> 00:13:08.860 obviously with the global focus on it, including 00:13:08.860 --> 00:13:11.279 the United States, just to not bash them for 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.190 a moment. They're always focused on us. Yeah, 00:13:14.250 --> 00:13:18.809 they are. But it's kind of crazy. But, you know, 00:13:18.830 --> 00:13:21.889 we think that I've used the metaphor earth to 00:13:21.889 --> 00:13:26.429 electric vehicles, mines to motors is entirely 00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:30.129 possible in northern Ontario. We send currently 00:13:30.129 --> 00:13:33.309 things like minerals like palladium to Norway. 00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:37.529 You know, lithium is still something that Germany 00:13:37.529 --> 00:13:40.820 is. you know in the best position the world over 00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:43.740 outside of china and i would just say mark that 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:47.519 processing in china comes at a cost right yes 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:52.240 um a huge cost from an environmental perspective 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.220 uh not just at the locations that they extract 00:13:55.220 --> 00:13:58.039 around the world labor practices their expectations 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:03.179 of of of how and that that uh critical mineral 00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:07.299 uh comes to market is significantly different 00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.090 than what the rest of the world and in particular 00:14:10.090 --> 00:14:14.870 Canada and for our purposes, Ontario would be. 00:14:15.269 --> 00:14:18.850 And, you know, I think I said at the summit, 00:14:19.009 --> 00:14:23.309 I recall saying that this is probably one of 00:14:23.309 --> 00:14:26.309 the rare opportunities for a sub -sovereign government, 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:31.509 the province of Ontario, to give the world one 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.649 of its greatest environmental gifts. And that 00:14:37.649 --> 00:14:42.409 is to develop the critical minerals, to enhance 00:14:42.409 --> 00:14:44.850 our position in the electrification, battery 00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:48.289 storage, all those technologies that are now 00:14:48.289 --> 00:14:52.110 a central feature of automotive technology and 00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:54.909 other areas, storage of electricity, all very 00:14:54.909 --> 00:14:59.129 exciting things. And we intend to do it better. 00:15:00.029 --> 00:15:03.190 processing scaling up for that is not just an 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:05.970 exercise of building a processing facility obviously 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:08.690 there's i don't want to get too granular but 00:15:08.690 --> 00:15:11.590 uh you know lithium has two or three different 00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:16.350 and there may be more um processing types if 00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:20.990 you will or or processes and uh other critical 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:26.049 minerals do as well the electrification uh very 00:15:26.049 --> 00:15:31.980 intense So, you know, pre -positioning Northern 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:38.559 Ontario to capture that, I think is, you know, 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:42.879 ambitious, but very possible. And Thunder Bay, 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.159 obviously Sudbury, that corridor, I think holds 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.860 great promise for our ability to ensure that 00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:54.600 we process those critical minerals so they're 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:59.049 extracted. processed fairly close to where the 00:15:59.049 --> 00:16:04.190 mine sites are located and moved to markets in 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:07.350 southern Ontario prospectively for a fully integrated 00:16:07.350 --> 00:16:09.789 supply chain. Yes, which would be great. And 00:16:09.789 --> 00:16:11.929 that's what Canada needs to do in terms of moving 00:16:11.929 --> 00:16:14.870 up the value chain and capturing more of that, 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:17.970 the value that's created. What sort of timeline 00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:22.509 are we looking at for first access roads in the 00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:26.500 best case? So there's a difference between starting 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:31.139 it and completing it, obviously, given its length 00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:36.039 or distance. But as I said earlier, in some respects, 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:39.860 we've already started. We made an announcement 00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:44.440 just before the last election we had this winter 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:49.759 that brought on board a partnership with Arrowland 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.769 First Nation. Martin Falls and Webequay had been 00:16:53.769 --> 00:16:59.809 and remain key proponents and partners in the 00:16:59.809 --> 00:17:03.590 development of the corridor and ultimately the 00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:08.430 Ring of Fire. But I think the corridor proper, 00:17:08.829 --> 00:17:12.410 Rob, which I would refer to as sort of the end 00:17:12.410 --> 00:17:16.210 of the existing roads. be they primary or secondary 00:17:16.210 --> 00:17:20.089 routes from the Trans -Canada due north, talking 00:17:20.089 --> 00:17:23.309 about 70 kilometers, need to be upgraded to spec, 00:17:23.569 --> 00:17:27.710 right, to handle a transportation corridor for 00:17:27.710 --> 00:17:31.190 people, programs, services, and obviously industry. 00:17:32.349 --> 00:17:37.630 And I think, just having some discussions after 00:17:37.630 --> 00:17:43.130 hours, so to speak, um, here, uh, in, or in London, 00:17:43.269 --> 00:17:47.410 um, rather, uh, we think that within the next 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:51.089 year or so we can actually start, um, you know, 00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:53.730 baseline construction activity of the corridor. 00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:57.289 That's very encouraging. It is. Um, you know, 00:17:57.289 --> 00:18:00.430 some of this has to be driven by markets and 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:03.410 I think we have, we have to keep that in perspective. 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.680 But this is, as I said, one of the central part 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.339 of the very northern Ontario that would benefit 00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:17.920 from a corridor in addition to any mining activity. 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.200 Is there any opportunity that you will be using 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.640 Hudson's Bay to ship out material, minerals to 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:33.200 Europe as opposed to going down south? There's 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.500 lots of discussion about that. I know that we're 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.000 in the midst of a federal election and people 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:45.039 are looking at alternative routes. It's a long 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:50.880 way from the Ring of Fire. And that transportation 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.299 corridor would actually have to come south and 00:18:53.299 --> 00:19:00.460 then head west to Manitoba and then up, I think. 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.519 Probably the most direct route would likely be 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:08.720 James Bay. But we're talking about some, first 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.819 of all, very pristine and mostly frozen waters 00:19:12.819 --> 00:19:17.440 there. So you have those challenges in front 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.079 of you. And obviously First Nations communities 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.380 rightly hold that part of the region as an area 00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:29.599 that deserves some protection. The Manitoba corridor 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.319 is through to Hudson's Bay is exciting because 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.539 it's mostly already there. Right. As a Tobin, 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:40.559 you can appreciate that it's not very wide, but 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.759 very narrow and far north province that already 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.660 has access routes and passage through Churchill. 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:53.140 So that would be another opportunity that I think 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:57.410 are related to things likely more around. Western 00:19:57.410 --> 00:19:59.950 Canada as opposed to what you know the projects 00:19:59.950 --> 00:20:03.849 we're talking about in Northern Ontario Recently 00:20:03.849 --> 00:20:07.829 statistics showed that last year in 2024 Canada 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:13.890 foreign direct investment FDI hit record levels 00:20:13.890 --> 00:20:18.849 and what was encouraging for somebody like me 00:20:18.849 --> 00:20:22.369 who spent 27 years in London and Mark is still 00:20:22.369 --> 00:20:26.130 in London, but there's less reliance than ever 00:20:26.130 --> 00:20:29.529 on American capital coming from the U .S. So 00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:32.170 I think there was a record low representation 00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:35.309 from the U .S., maybe only 33 % coming from the 00:20:35.309 --> 00:20:38.710 U .S. Are you seeing signs of that, that there's 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:41.369 more international capital coming to Canada? 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:46.049 Well, it starts with, I think, the ever -intensifying 00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:50.410 political lens coming from other parts of the 00:20:50.410 --> 00:20:55.180 world than just the United States. start going 00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:58.480 off and talking about tariffs, a very, very popular 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.440 subject right now. Stay tuned by the minute. 00:21:01.579 --> 00:21:07.539 But I think Ontario, you know, obviously going 00:21:07.539 --> 00:21:11.559 to be impacted the most by the tariffs is the 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.200 lesson there. And the opportunity, in my view, 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:19.880 is to encourage investment from countries outside 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:21.990 of the United States. I think the lesson we're 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:24.349 learning is that we had become, as the United 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:29.549 States had, one might think of it, quite indulgent 00:21:29.549 --> 00:21:32.170 for obvious reasons in a trade relationship. 00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:35.789 But I think it's a testament to the exercise 00:21:35.789 --> 00:21:39.829 in London at the summit and the activities of 00:21:39.829 --> 00:21:44.349 other cabinet colleagues that global markets 00:21:44.349 --> 00:21:48.549 are moving their interest and the money is coming 00:21:48.549 --> 00:21:54.950 with it to Canada. to Ontario. And I think that's 00:21:54.950 --> 00:21:59.529 a good thing. It's a medium term thing that will 00:21:59.529 --> 00:22:04.670 manifest itself in, you know, passing. It's going 00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:07.289 to be different forever. I'm looking at the screen 00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:14.809 now. It will go beyond President Trump. And I 00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:21.580 think that provinces in Canada as a whole revisit 00:22:21.580 --> 00:22:24.920 that over -reliance on the United States at their 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.940 own risk. I've only been back in Canada after 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.759 the 27 years in London for a short amount of 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.180 time. I have never seen the level of patriotism 00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:39.980 at the moment from the Buy Canada campaigns to... 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.420 booing national anthems, which is... Not a big 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.259 fan of that. Glad we spilled for those songs. 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:55.480 Absolutely. But I hope that this patriotism lasts 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.960 and that the desire to look outside of North 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.259 America continues beyond current troubles and 00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:06.740 that we don't go back to status quo. No question 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:10.039 it's a patriotic exercise and a very meaningful 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:14.789 unifying. exercise as well, including provinces 00:23:14.789 --> 00:23:18.589 like Quebec. But in the context of the summit, 00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:21.029 one of my key reflections there, and I think 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:24.609 I commented on it in the panel that I participated 00:23:24.609 --> 00:23:30.930 in, has been how quickly First Nations communities, 00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:36.700 political leaders and business leaders have Come 00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:41.420 to the side and unified around a you know Very 00:23:41.420 --> 00:23:44.779 patriotic, but but very important not just symbolic 00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:52.400 Exercise if you will to assure that we're all 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:57.819 in this together and I think as the summit manifestly 00:23:57.819 --> 00:24:02.500 different panels that that I attended Suggested 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:06.549 this is an opportunity for Indigenous businesses 00:24:06.549 --> 00:24:11.630 to elevate their profile as we look towards a 00:24:11.630 --> 00:24:15.490 more pan -Canadian trade relationship as between 00:24:15.490 --> 00:24:19.589 provinces, as between communities spanning the 00:24:19.589 --> 00:24:25.009 country and in Ontario. And from there, you know, 00:24:25.029 --> 00:24:28.769 you talk about global investment, form new partnerships, 00:24:28.869 --> 00:24:32.470 which I think was a central kind of theme at 00:24:32.470 --> 00:24:36.609 the summit. to cue investors here in in the heartbeat 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:41.730 of the world of finance london that indigenous 00:24:41.730 --> 00:24:43.710 businesses were going to be a key part of that 00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:48.690 we agree and uh that's a good thing but it was 00:24:48.690 --> 00:24:51.710 great you know to think of it i mean i think 00:24:51.710 --> 00:24:55.910 a couple of sean i mentioned him earlier you 00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:58.849 know said it as did other first nation leaders 00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:03.940 they have always been at the side of uh of canada 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:07.299 if you will when some would suggest they sure 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:10.980 have enough reasons not to be but from the war 00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:15.279 of 1812 through confederation and and to the 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.279 modern day and the crisis that we're we're in 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.460 they've been steadfast and communicated to us 00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:23.220 at a political level and i think we heard it 00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:26.380 at the summit that they're very much uh with 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:31.359 the canadian you know, very patriotic, but very, 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.700 you know, on the economic side of it, willingness 00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:39.299 to be all in for. Well, coming back to the Revolutionary 00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:43.839 War, I think you saw, reflecting back on the 00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:48.279 summit, we had very few politicians. Yeah. In 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:50.319 fact, you were the only one, but we're very pleased 00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.460 with what you brought to the table because the 00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:55.950 audience didn't want to hear. Here's the messaging. 00:25:56.109 --> 00:25:58.690 They want to hear what's actually going on and 00:25:58.690 --> 00:26:01.269 what will happen. So we really appreciate that 00:26:01.269 --> 00:26:03.529 you brought that because it's difficult to step 00:26:03.529 --> 00:26:05.730 out and say, okay, we're going to participate 00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:09.190 because it is a commercially driven summit. How 00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:12.369 do we connect the capital? So that was very important. 00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:15.029 We appreciate your contribution to that. Well, 00:26:15.029 --> 00:26:18.150 Mark, let me just say that politics, as we're 00:26:18.150 --> 00:26:21.609 learning with the tariffs, plays a big role in 00:26:21.609 --> 00:26:25.599 economics. You know, no question about it. But 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.099 I felt the same way. Like I said, it's actually 00:26:28.099 --> 00:26:30.380 a good thing that there aren't that many, if 00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:33.619 any, you know, politicians. I was unplugged to 00:26:33.619 --> 00:26:36.380 the extent that I felt really comfortable with 00:26:36.380 --> 00:26:39.259 the folks that were holding court, hosting panels. 00:26:39.619 --> 00:26:43.880 And, you know, Rob, a pretty big fan of yours 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:47.980 and the career that you've had. And it's just 00:26:47.980 --> 00:26:51.059 a testament to, I think, a promising future. 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:58.319 And that voice is is is indigenous. And it was 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.619 on full display generationally, I might add. 00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:04.140 Right. You had Chief Terry Paul there, but you 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:06.240 had, you know, the Tabitha Bulls and the Sean 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.740 Willies. And there's another Derek. I mean, holy 00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:12.480 smokes. Does he just blow your doors off or what? 00:27:12.579 --> 00:27:16.279 Right. These are exciting and dynamic political 00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:20.859 leaders, but also, you know, fantastic, as they've 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:24.799 proved. uh business leaders we need to hear them 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.200 and and it's okay for politicians to not be the 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.619 you know the front row center uh piece of it 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:35.500 my my decision to come here was was an assessment 00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:38.920 of who was there that i could go listen to uh 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:42.680 more than just uh participate in and And I think 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.960 we carved out a spot that folks appreciated, 00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:50.579 had context, but it didn't elevate Canadian politicians 00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:56.799 to a place that it, in my view, took over the 00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.220 spotlight on one of the most exciting things 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.359 taking place in Canada and in Ontario right now. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.740 We really appreciated your time and your contributions 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:06.539 and appreciate your time again today. Thanks 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:08.259 for having me. The Honourable Greg Rickford. 00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:10.299 Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:14.390 Miigwech. Thank you to Honorable Greg Rickford, 00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:16.950 member of the Provincial Parliament of Ontario, 00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:19.630 representing the riding of Kenora Rainy River, 00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:22.970 for sharing his insights with us. And thank you 00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:25.349 for viewing and listening. Be sure to share, 00:28:25.509 --> 00:28:27.549 subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite 00:28:27.549 --> 00:28:30.369 podcast channel. Thanks for listening to Drumbeats. 00:28:30.450 --> 00:28:31.549 Until next time.