WEBVTT 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:03.069 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.069 --> 00:00:05.730 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:08.689 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:11.070 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:12.609 --> 00:00:15.109 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brandt 00:00:15.109 --> 00:00:17.870 and I are joined today by Sean Willey, President 00:00:17.870 --> 00:00:20.809 and CEO of Desnetti Group, with operations that 00:00:20.809 --> 00:00:23.370 include potash mines, nuclear facilities like 00:00:23.370 --> 00:00:26.390 Bruce Power and Port Hope, and even 200 ,000 00:00:26.390 --> 00:00:28.519 acres of mineral rights. South of the border 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.660 in West Virginia in the USA, Desnetti is redefining 00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:33.960 Indigenous -led business success on a global 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.479 scale. Numerous partnerships include core construction 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.159 firms handling mechanical, electrical, civil, 00:00:40.259 --> 00:00:43.560 and road work also enhance their portfolio. The 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:45.439 group demonstrates their commitment to managing 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:48.420 natural resource opportunities and helping First 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:51.100 Nations like English River progress by diversifying 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:56.000 economically. Sean Willey, President and CEO 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.350 of Desnetti. group. And I was struggling. You 00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:03.189 wear so many hats. I wasn't sure which title 00:01:03.189 --> 00:01:05.909 to introduce you by. That's the best one. Okay. 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:07.609 Well, it's great to have you back in London. 00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:10.870 And thank you for stopping by the studio and 00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:13.109 having a chat with us. Thanks for having me, 00:01:13.129 --> 00:01:14.609 Rob. Thanks for having me, Mark. Great to have 00:01:14.609 --> 00:01:17.329 you back again. Sean, where are you? Might want 00:01:17.329 --> 00:01:19.670 to start by a bit of your personal background. 00:01:19.909 --> 00:01:23.290 Where are you from? And how did you get to the 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:25.640 role you're playing today? Well, I was born in 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:28.659 Inuvik, Northwest Territories. We didn't live 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:32.620 there. I got flown in. My mom, who's a Dene woman 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:36.239 from her family, is a Mercury family. So Mercury's 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.040 run the cabinet in northern Saskatchewan, northern 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:42.400 Alberta, Northwest Territories. Her family's 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.920 from Fort Resolution, Deneuquay First Nation. 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:50.950 And my dad is from a small town in Saskatchewan 00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:53.329 called Turtleford. And he came up to the Northwest 00:01:53.329 --> 00:01:56.170 Territories and they met in Yellowknife. And 00:01:56.170 --> 00:01:58.590 then they ended up in a small settlement called 00:01:58.590 --> 00:02:00.989 Fort McPherson, which is in Gwich 'in country. 00:02:01.829 --> 00:02:04.849 That's where I was born, but in Inuvik Hospital. 00:02:05.049 --> 00:02:09.449 And then they moved us around. My dad was part 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:12.650 of the resource wildlife and economic development 00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:15.229 departments of the government of Northwest Territories. 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:18.919 So then we moved around what's now Nunavut, back 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:22.680 to Yellowknife. So I spent a lot of time in Northwest 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:27.240 Territories. Then I started getting mining jobs 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.199 with the gold mines in Northwest Territories. 00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:34.240 And they were all geared towards, you know, Northwest 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:36.960 Territories was doing a lot of proactive work 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:41.479 on hiring Indigenous kids. And this is mid -90s. 00:02:42.349 --> 00:02:44.150 And so once, you know, I worked at the Lupin 00:02:44.150 --> 00:02:46.389 gold mine in Nunavut. I worked at the Colomac 00:02:46.389 --> 00:02:48.669 gold mine. And what kind of work would you be 00:02:48.669 --> 00:02:50.969 doing? Just entry -level labor work. Yeah. Right? 00:02:51.050 --> 00:02:52.650 And then your apprenticeship. But once you start 00:02:52.650 --> 00:02:55.710 doing that and you start, oh, two weeks in, two 00:02:55.710 --> 00:02:58.509 weeks out, you're making good money, then that's 00:02:58.509 --> 00:02:59.810 what you want to do. You want to do resource 00:02:59.810 --> 00:03:04.289 work. So I was lucky enough then to get a job 00:03:04.289 --> 00:03:06.530 with Divec Diamond Mines, which was owned by 00:03:06.530 --> 00:03:10.150 Rio Tinto. And Rio Tinto wanted to build the 00:03:10.150 --> 00:03:12.180 second diamond mine in the country. And I got 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:15.099 tasked with going out to all of communities. 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.699 So within Treaty 8, Treaty 10, Clicho, Young 00:03:18.699 --> 00:03:22.460 Lives Dene. So when you say, for our UK audience, 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.120 Treaty 8, Treaty 10, can you explain? Well, that's 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:28.719 the number of treaties that the Crown had signed 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.419 with Indigenous people, sort of to, after the 00:03:31.419 --> 00:03:34.719 Royal Proclamation, to sort of tie up the land 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:38.219 on the Western Front. And the Royal Proclamation 00:03:38.219 --> 00:03:45.240 was 1763. And that was the crowned king at the 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.479 time. I forget which king now. I'm thinking George 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:51.340 III. King George III. Yeah, Mad King George. 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.719 The Royal Proclamation, which is a bit of a bill 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:56.800 of rights for Indigenous people in Canada, that 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:01.979 the first declaration, as presumptuous as it 00:04:01.979 --> 00:04:07.169 was for the king to lay out what he thought considered 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:10.449 to be, uh, the rights of indigenous people in 00:04:10.449 --> 00:04:13.090 Canada. Uh, and then flowing from that, there 00:04:13.090 --> 00:04:15.650 were treaties and, uh. So each treaty, you can 00:04:15.650 --> 00:04:18.610 almost, so Treaty 10, there's a tie towards oil 00:04:18.610 --> 00:04:20.990 and gas up in the Norman Wells area. So it was, 00:04:20.990 --> 00:04:24.209 you know, Treaty 8, which is home to a lot of 00:04:24.209 --> 00:04:27.730 the Dene communities. Um, it's Treaty 11 up in 00:04:27.730 --> 00:04:29.509 Northwest Territory as well. So I got to work 00:04:29.509 --> 00:04:33.269 with, I interviewed over 4 ,000 people in communities. 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:37.500 I, you know, I was. knew everybody, uh, who wanted 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:39.720 a job to come to Dyvik. Like the diamond mines 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:41.759 were game changers. And the fact that we're so 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.860 aggressive, we wanted to staff up indigenous 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:47.379 jobs, opportunities, training, employment. And 00:04:47.379 --> 00:04:49.839 secondly, we wanted to create strong businesses. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.259 So we did a lot of work on indigenous businesses 00:04:53.259 --> 00:04:56.339 with the Clicho, the Alnates Dene, uh, the Katimi 00:04:56.339 --> 00:05:00.139 at Inuit, the Norse slave Metis and Rio Tinto. 00:05:00.339 --> 00:05:03.040 You know, I got to meet, it was at the time the, 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:07.230 the, um, The CEO was Sir Robert Wilson and his 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:10.069 Australian counterpart was Lee Clifford. And 00:05:10.069 --> 00:05:11.910 they came over for the opening and I got to sit 00:05:11.910 --> 00:05:14.649 and have supper with them. And they just released 00:05:14.649 --> 00:05:18.730 this, we've changed the game for Rio Tinto and 00:05:18.730 --> 00:05:21.589 our approach to working with indigenous people. 00:05:22.569 --> 00:05:25.529 And a lot of that was my father's work. He had 00:05:25.529 --> 00:05:28.569 done this in his previous life in the uranium 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:30.470 mines in northern Saskatchewan, now done it up 00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:34.800 in Yellowknife. He left, I stayed up and spent 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.540 10 years with Rio Tinto. I had to go get my education. 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:40.600 So I'm a pragmatic individual. I wanted to get 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:42.420 this, I wanted to build the second diamond in 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:46.579 the country. We did that. And over 40 % indigenous 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:49.379 employment. At the end of the day, $3 billion 00:05:49.379 --> 00:05:52.660 spent with local indigenous companies. Then I 00:05:52.660 --> 00:05:56.680 went to Saskatoon, finished my education and 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:58.579 started working with a company called Chemical 00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:01.680 Corporation. And chemical corporation was at 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.899 this time, the gold standard. It was the, you 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:06.779 know, had strong indigenous participation. You 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:09.639 had leaders there that fought to be at the table 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.339 to, and it really set the Canadian model for 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:14.939 indigenous inclusion. One where you saw indigenous 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:17.879 people participating on the environmental planning, 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.360 environmental monitoring, and then the reclamation 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.620 decommissioning activities. Cameco today, I think 00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:26.920 are the largest employer of indigenous. Well, 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:29.399 they've come down a bit since the uranium market 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.860 has been in a challenge, I would say. Not the 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:33.779 last couple of years, it's coming back and Cameco's 00:06:33.779 --> 00:06:36.079 coming back and that's what we're looking for, 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.639 is that employment level to come back. So when 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.100 COVID hit in the market, a community like English 00:06:42.100 --> 00:06:44.240 River, who I now work for, I've spent 10 years 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.160 at Cameco, did a lot of great things there, you 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:48.819 know, represent them on the world stage. Like 00:06:48.819 --> 00:06:51.459 it's, it's funny, Rob, when I worked for a diamond 00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:55.480 mining company. And he talked to people and, 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.339 oh, diamonds, oh, that's sexy. But they really 00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:02.339 don't have any value, really, once or twice in 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:05.079 their lives. But then you go to uranium, which 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:07.540 is used for baseload electricity, clean electricity, 00:07:07.779 --> 00:07:09.319 and nobody wants to talk to you anymore. Nobody 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:11.620 wants to talk to you, right? And so I got to 00:07:11.620 --> 00:07:14.860 go around the world. Both glow, no? Pardon me? 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.740 Yeah, both glow, yeah, both glow, yeah. I got 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:19.579 to go around the world for chemical meeting Indigenous 00:07:19.579 --> 00:07:22.259 people who had uranium on their lands. And what 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:24.579 we did is we used the Northern Saskatchewan story. 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.040 So I, you know, 30 plus times down in Australia 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.360 and the Alpac to meet groups like the Mardu people, 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.560 very traditional land users, and bringing them 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.240 up to Northern Saskatchewan to show them what 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.060 could be possible and like leave the room. You 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:39.819 guys talk with our Indigenous leaders and they'll 00:07:39.819 --> 00:07:42.060 tell you the good, bad, and the ugly of resource 00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:44.689 development. But at the end of the day, it was 00:07:44.689 --> 00:07:46.870 all about, you need own source revenue to move 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:48.850 your life forward, right? Our culture as indigenous 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:51.829 people, poverty is stripping away that culture. 00:07:52.069 --> 00:07:55.550 And so what we really look to do is create role 00:07:55.550 --> 00:07:58.170 models between nations to talk about the challenges 00:07:58.170 --> 00:08:00.870 we all face from a socioeconomic point of view 00:08:00.870 --> 00:08:04.949 and how to build up. And so did that good at 00:08:04.949 --> 00:08:08.529 Cameco, saw English River, a Dennis Oudliné community, 00:08:08.930 --> 00:08:11.410 myself, Dennis Oudliné background, reclaimed 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:15.490 my status. And just what English River built 00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:19.129 through Desneffe was a pragmatic, humble, very 00:08:19.129 --> 00:08:22.009 strong company, but they were too dependent on 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.310 chemical. Sorry, just. Yeah. You said reclaim 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:30.110 my status. Our UK listeners won't understand. 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:33.509 So my mother is a First Nation woman. So when 00:08:33.509 --> 00:08:38.309 she, she was put into foster care, she became 00:08:38.309 --> 00:08:42.590 a ward of the state. And so then. her family, 00:08:42.649 --> 00:08:44.590 her mother had lost her status prior because 00:08:44.590 --> 00:08:46.710 she was a woman that married a Metis individual. 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:48.990 And so it was just part of the Indian act of 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:53.149 rules where women were looked as if you, if you 00:08:53.149 --> 00:08:56.509 married outside of your indigenous. or your First 00:08:56.509 --> 00:08:58.490 Nation communities and didn't marry another First 00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:01.409 Nation individual, you lose your status. So we 00:09:01.409 --> 00:09:03.389 had to go, there's been a number of legislations 00:09:03.389 --> 00:09:06.730 over the last, since 1984, I would say. I mean, 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:09.610 of course, men could marry outside. As usual. 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:12.590 Didn't matter. But women did, they lost their 00:09:12.590 --> 00:09:14.950 status, sometimes lost their right to even live 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:19.710 on First Nations territory. Yeah, so you could 00:09:19.710 --> 00:09:23.070 have a First Nation. man marry a non -Indigenous 00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:25.210 woman and she would have then status benefits. 00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:29.990 Right. Whereas his sister could marry a non -Indigenous 00:09:29.990 --> 00:09:32.490 man and lose all her benefits. So my grandma 00:09:32.490 --> 00:09:34.950 fell into that class. My mom fell into that class. 00:09:35.149 --> 00:09:38.289 So we went through the process of reclaiming 00:09:38.289 --> 00:09:40.669 that. And so that's now. So you could reclaim 00:09:40.669 --> 00:09:42.830 that. That was because of change in the law? 00:09:43.029 --> 00:09:45.950 Yeah. Oh, okay. There was lots of pushback from 00:09:45.950 --> 00:09:47.549 Indigenous women throughout the country. And 00:09:47.549 --> 00:09:50.190 there was numerous laws that were put in place. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.720 And so I've reclaimed my status. I did not grow 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:55.720 up in the community. I'm always open about that. 00:09:55.779 --> 00:09:57.519 I grew up outside the community because my mother 00:09:57.519 --> 00:09:59.639 did not grow up in the community. But I always 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.720 listened to, I think that helped me. I really 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.399 craved the stories of elders and listening to 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:07.659 elders because I didn't get that opportunity 00:10:07.659 --> 00:10:10.340 growing up. So in Yellowknife, the communities, 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:13.639 one thing English River was their elders. And 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:15.980 they said, you know, they're very pragmatic in 00:10:15.980 --> 00:10:19.139 their approach of building business, being part 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:22.600 of the discussion. And so they created Desnethé, 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:27.419 which is the Dene word for great river, 40 plus 00:10:27.419 --> 00:10:31.399 years ago. And they created it to support the 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:33.799 uranium industry, to provide jobs for their people, 00:10:33.820 --> 00:10:36.399 to create own source revenue. And meeting English 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.440 River elders reminded me of the experience I 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.980 had in Northwest Territories, where the communities 00:10:41.980 --> 00:10:44.200 were like, we need own source revenue. Hunting, 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:48.019 fishing, trapping, that's gone. Um, we need to 00:10:48.019 --> 00:10:49.639 create our own source revenue so that we can 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:53.200 support education. We do not want our next generations 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.220 living in poverty. The land is sacred to us, 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.320 but let's get involved with that. Let's make, 00:10:58.340 --> 00:11:01.820 let's, let's be sure we're part of the monitoring. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.220 Be sure we're part of the planning, but we can 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:07.179 no longer have our young people live in poverty. 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.720 And so both communities, uh, it was so similar 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:12.980 that, you know, I would get in a good conversation 00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:15.000 with chief and council of English river and say, 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:18.820 but you're too dependent on the uranium. How 00:11:18.820 --> 00:11:21.220 do you, how do you diversify away from the uranium? 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.379 I said, you know, in 2011, you had the Fukushima, 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:27.679 you know, the tidal wave, the tsunami come in 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:29.860 and hit the power plant and. Changed nuclear. 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.120 Exactly. And took the market out. And so you 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.240 saw this coming and you sort of coached the nation 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.419 and their elders and their leadership just said, 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:42.250 okay, well. you're, you're indigenous. It's time 00:11:42.250 --> 00:11:43.950 you come back and work for an indigenous firm. 00:11:44.029 --> 00:11:45.950 Like quit working for these big companies, right? 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:50.049 We need your help on our side. And, uh, I felt, 00:11:50.110 --> 00:11:52.850 yeah, that's, you know, working for big companies 00:11:52.850 --> 00:11:55.830 is safe. It's secure, but you're really a manager 00:11:55.830 --> 00:11:58.509 of a risk for that company. And it feels, it 00:11:58.509 --> 00:12:01.590 feels safe and secure, but in all honesty, when 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:03.649 anybody works in a large organization, you feel 00:12:03.649 --> 00:12:05.610 you're part of this big organization and you 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.669 don't seem to have to worry about where your 00:12:07.669 --> 00:12:10.840 paycheck will come. And then one day. Yes. You 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:14.659 realize you're just a person in a big enterprise. 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.480 Yeah. Right? So. Well, I wanted to give back. 00:12:17.539 --> 00:12:19.799 I had felt this entrepreneurialism in me and 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.000 I had a vision and an idea about how to, I was, 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:28.320 you know, JP Gladue was head of CCAB at the time. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.059 I was one of his co -chairs. So I saw this trajectory 00:12:31.059 --> 00:12:33.860 that indigenous business was on. I saw the court 00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:38.419 cases, but. I'm also a pragmatic individual. 00:12:38.539 --> 00:12:40.940 And I said, okay, we have all these court cases. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.600 I have a very progressive First Nation who's 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.980 humble that wants to diversify and grow. How 00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:49.679 can we create a tier one business that happens 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.860 to be Indigenous? And I just saw, I saw this 00:12:53.860 --> 00:12:56.120 opportunity there. And if we didn't adjust things 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:59.600 a bit, and I'm thankful for all our leaders. 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.519 Like every once in a while, I'll have, I'll watch 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.029 a couple of those videos of. you know, constitutional 00:13:04.029 --> 00:13:07.289 talks when you get, when you get some of those, 00:13:07.289 --> 00:13:10.090 those like Jim Sinclair and Mary Simon, like 00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:12.490 at the end, they're pounding the table and I'm 00:13:12.490 --> 00:13:16.169 appreciative of those individuals that set the 00:13:16.169 --> 00:13:18.870 table for our generation. Now we just have to 00:13:18.870 --> 00:13:20.970 sort of take it up a notch, right? I was living 00:13:20.970 --> 00:13:22.950 in Ottawa at the time of some of those constitutional 00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:25.750 talks and my father ran a company that was, uh, 00:13:25.789 --> 00:13:29.500 filming. It was a North American. Indian Films 00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:31.159 Corporation, something like that at the time. 00:13:31.220 --> 00:13:34.919 So I had a contract filming. I got, as a young 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.840 teenager, got to hang out in a lot of those big 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.860 constitutional meetings and just sort of wander 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:43.740 around. And it was, yeah, yeah, fascinating. 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:50.399 And then later on, eventually, Meech Lake. Yeah, 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:55.980 Meech Lake. And then Elijah Harper. Yeah, no. 00:13:57.860 --> 00:14:00.259 Loved it all. And it had an influence and impact 00:14:00.259 --> 00:14:02.259 on me growing up. Well, and I think we have to 00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:05.059 just up our game. So you guys set the table for 00:14:05.059 --> 00:14:07.559 us. How do we do that again? And so we wanted 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.600 to create a business. And so English River, you 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.120 know, use your rights and title to get that core 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.440 business. So, you know, I've been CEO at Des 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.820 Nathanael for eight years. Majority of that time 00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:23.379 has been in a market downturn. And so what we 00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:26.639 did was we went out and I've done a lot of work 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.340 for Corporate Canada. I know a lot of Canadian 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.379 CEOs. They want to do business with Indigenous 00:14:32.379 --> 00:14:36.080 companies, but they're very honest saying you 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.220 have to match what our value proposition is at 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:41.220 our company, right? And so we've done a good 00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:43.279 job at Desnet, a great job at Desnet. They're 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:45.700 going out and finding companies to do mergers 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:48.659 and acquisitions with, really indigenizing those 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:52.440 companies. taking a 51 to 75 % stake in those 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.940 companies, taking advantage of the procurement 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:58.860 opportunities in front of us. A very good compliment 00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:00.600 that we get from Corporate Canada is that we're 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.279 very strategically focused. We think about strategy 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.980 over politics. We're not asking for a handout. 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.759 We're asking for a hand up. But we're also trying 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.879 to add value to everybody we're talking to. So 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.460 what is, what today is in the Desnede portfolio? 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.759 Oh, well, so you have your core group of construction 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.080 companies. So we have both mechanical, piping, 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.259 electrical. We also have civil earth moving companies. 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:30.960 So right now we do, we have a five -year contract 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.500 with the Department of Highways to do all the 00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:38.419 road work in Saskatchewan. So we do that with 00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:42.360 the province. We do work at potash mines. So 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.580 we set up well -filled sites for in -situ leach 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:50.299 on potash side. Um, Tron construction, uh, it 00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:52.059 was sort of the first company the nation ever 00:15:52.059 --> 00:15:55.759 bought is the only first nation company to work 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:00.539 in, uh, uranium mining in the power, uh, generation 00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:02.539 sides. They've worked at Bruce power and they've 00:16:02.539 --> 00:16:05.639 also worked in the fuel fabrication side at Port 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.740 Hope. So it's the only first nation company to 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:11.039 work in the full stream of nuclear. Um, I was 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.440 going to ask if your businesses are outside of 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.850 Saskatchewan now and yeah. And only in. at the 00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:21.350 moment in Canada? No, one of the deals we just 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:23.970 completed was a land, a mineral rights purchase 00:16:23.970 --> 00:16:28.210 deal with Weyerhaeuser in West Virginia. We own 00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:32.169 about 200 ,000 acres of mineral rights right 00:16:32.169 --> 00:16:34.490 in the Appalachians. It's full of metallurgical 00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:40.419 coal. And we bought that last September. People 00:16:40.419 --> 00:16:42.879 have said, well, we got into this deal as a minority 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.519 partner and becoming like Weyerhaeuser, love 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.360 the story. They love the ESG. Like I said, First 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.159 Nation from Northern Canada coming down, like, 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:53.100 how are you guys doing this? And we secured that 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:56.039 in September last year. We refinanced it in January 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.440 with strong support from our First Nations bank. 00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:05.389 And now it's growing in value because. President 00:17:05.389 --> 00:17:07.950 Trump is promoting resource development in the 00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:10.130 United States. And here you have metallurgical 00:17:10.130 --> 00:17:13.170 coal that's going up in value. You know, it's 00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:15.250 funny that we have 200 ,000 acres of mineral 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:17.849 rights in West Virginia, but we have no mineral 00:17:17.849 --> 00:17:20.289 rights where the English River traditional lands 00:17:20.289 --> 00:17:23.130 are in Canada. So yeah, that's a bonus. And when 00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:25.430 you talk about metallurgical coal, because coal 00:17:25.430 --> 00:17:30.750 is in some places a dirty word, but what's different 00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:32.670 about metallurgical coal? Well, it's just used 00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:35.410 for the steel industry. And so, you know, we, 00:17:35.509 --> 00:17:37.549 we, we don't do any of the mining. We just hold 00:17:37.549 --> 00:17:39.069 the mineral rights. So we have a number of miners 00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:42.950 on the land, um, and, uh, upping their productions 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:45.809 and selling it into different markets. Yeah. 00:17:45.869 --> 00:17:49.170 For all steel production. But we also have a, 00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:52.269 we've created a first ever partnership with Scotiabank 00:17:52.269 --> 00:17:57.329 on, um, in the debt capital markets game and 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:00.259 Scotiabank has been an absolute. Gem to work 00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:02.000 with three years to create that partnership. 00:18:02.299 --> 00:18:04.279 That's with Cedar Leaf Capital. Cedar Leaf Capital. 00:18:04.299 --> 00:18:06.259 Something you spoke about at the summit. Yes. 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.160 And we had two great partners. We have Rama First 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.099 Nation and Squamish First Nation were partnered 00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:16.400 with there. We own a professional services company 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.359 called Creative Fire, which is doing really a 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.180 national work on just. Going beyond reconciliation 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.619 action plans. Well, your colleague Terry Lynn 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:29.380 was with us last year at the summit. Yes. At 00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.200 the first summit. So it's, you know, a large 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.759 retail footprint. We run the largest gas station 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:39.799 in the province. We have the only liquor, beer, 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.579 and wine store on reserve in Saskatchewan. So 00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:46.900 the nation has done a lot of things first. One 00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:48.940 of the things they did first in Saskatchewan 00:18:48.940 --> 00:18:50.920 was they bought land adjacent to the city of 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.539 Saskatoon. So for your listeners, Saskatoon is 00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:56.339 the largest city in Saskatchewan, growing very 00:18:56.339 --> 00:19:00.599 fast. Like the world wants the Saskatchewan resources. 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.700 So Saskatoon is the beneficiary of that. So the 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:06.859 nation bought land south of Saskatoon, perfect 00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:09.859 land. It's on the busiest highway in the province. 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:16.000 We're in the highest per capita postal code in 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.940 the province. It's the fastest growing area in 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:19.539 the province. So they have this piece of land. 00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:23.759 Everybody's on what they call septic. They don't 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.559 have sewage. So to develop our land, we needed 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.400 to put in a utility. Who owned that land? Who 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.960 was selling it? It was just landowners in Saskatchewan. 00:19:33.019 --> 00:19:36.160 So you guys decided to put it together or? Yeah, 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:39.720 this was years ago. The nation through, because 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.700 when they signed treaty, they allocated a number 00:19:43.700 --> 00:19:47.019 of acres per person that were there at treaty 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:49.539 signing. But of course, not everybody was there 00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:51.279 at Treeside. Most of them were up on traveling 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.079 and fishing. It was a nice summer day. So that's 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.079 where they were up on the water. So only if they 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.180 were physically there on that day. Yeah, that's 00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:58.339 how they calculated acres. So if they're out 00:19:58.339 --> 00:20:01.420 there hunting or fishing, too bad you were trying 00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:03.920 to feed your family on the wrong day. But then 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:05.220 they went back and they said, okay, all these 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:07.200 people were missing. And Saskatchewan was very 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.140 progressive in that. Like the indigenous community 00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:11.339 has fought for a lot of, and so they fought for 00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:13.259 what they call treaty land entitlement. Yes. 00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.640 And so we got those acres back and the community 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.339 was very. They bought this land for economic 00:20:18.339 --> 00:20:21.019 development purposes. And so in the last four 00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:23.880 years, we've built a utility, water and wastewater 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.440 support our growth, but then our neighbor, so 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.039 you have what they call a rural municipality 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:30.839 and that's the fastest growing region. And they're 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.180 like, hey, can you guys, you think you could 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:37.339 service about 20 to 30 ,000 residents as this 00:20:37.339 --> 00:20:40.279 thing grows? And we're like, absolutely. So now 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.359 we've partnered with EPCOR, a large Canadian 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.240 utility company. to run these utilities, provide 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.359 water, wastewater. But again, it gives, does 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.779 nothing in the nation, a foundational revenue 00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:54.420 stream. Yes. And so one of the big things I was 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:57.980 excited to come to the summit was we're looking 00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:01.259 for over a billion dollars, a partner, an investment 00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:03.819 partner to help develop what we're looking at 00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:08.480 is large retail, light industrial, recreational 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.339 facilities. South of Saskatoon and the city will 00:21:12.339 --> 00:21:14.660 just eventually go around us with the potash 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:16.660 we have, with the oil and gas, with the uranium 00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:19.160 that Saskatchewan has. People will just keep 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.400 coming to Saskatoon. The city will grow around 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.619 us, but we'll have this large piece of land that 00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:28.339 will just generate millions of dollars for the 00:21:28.339 --> 00:21:32.319 nation on top of their work in the mines. There's 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.279 not, there's one other first nation we've met 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.309 with that has. Mines that we have, the quality 00:21:38.309 --> 00:21:39.970 of the uranium mines that we have, which will 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:44.230 last another 50 years, and urban land development. 00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:46.009 So you've heard the stories of, you know, our 00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:48.069 partners at Squamish developing their lands at 00:21:48.069 --> 00:21:52.289 Squamish. We have that same opportunity, plus 00:21:52.289 --> 00:21:55.710 these large mines in our backyard. Are you looking 00:21:55.710 --> 00:22:00.519 like Squamish at acquiring? Non -reserve lands 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.359 and adding them to reserve lands. Well, I think 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.599 we'll look at them both ways. And that's the 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:10.400 problem with the Indian Act. If we buy more lands 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.599 and turn them into reserve, you can't leverage 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.220 them, right? We don't actually own anything. 00:22:16.539 --> 00:22:20.099 This land that we own right now and that we're 00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:22.759 in the process of expanding on, it's probably 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.039 worth $800 ,000 an acre. We have about 400 acres. 00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:29.650 I guess the downside, if you don't make them 00:22:29.650 --> 00:22:31.829 reserve lands, you are still, that land is subject 00:22:31.829 --> 00:22:36.309 to the usual regulatory process. Yeah. And you 00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:40.789 don't have as much control or ability to. Yeah. 00:22:40.910 --> 00:22:43.029 And the way we structure companies, right? We 00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:46.730 want the advantages and the tax advantages through 00:22:46.730 --> 00:22:50.579 the GPLP model. And so we use the indirect. General 00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:53.180 partnership and limited partnerships. So it's 00:22:53.180 --> 00:22:56.099 the way that most economic development corporations 00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:59.019 are structured in this country is to take advantage 00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:04.339 of on -reserve status. Right. Yeah. So just to 00:23:04.339 --> 00:23:07.319 segue for a bit, so very popular TV show over 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.400 here in the UK is Yellowstone. And the whole 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.460 thing was they were going to take the land back 00:23:13.460 --> 00:23:18.480 onto the reserve. But downside to that. is you're 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.200 restricted in terms of what you can do with it. 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.160 So it might be good to keep it. I don't look 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.180 at it restricted. I don't, I think we've been 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:29.599 very aggressive. So when we built our water, 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.960 our wastewater facility, people were asking, 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.579 how did you, how did you get this done so quick? 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:36.420 And it was an education then for us to go out 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:40.180 and say, yes, we, we know all the negatives about 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:42.839 the Indian act and reserve lands, but how can 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.980 we as entrepreneurs find those points that add 00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:48.609 value? Yes. And that, Rob raises a good one, 00:23:48.690 --> 00:23:52.650 consultation. So the European model is now bogged 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:56.869 in consultation processes, right? And it's probably 00:23:56.869 --> 00:24:00.250 30 % of their costs now on projects is, and the 00:24:00.250 --> 00:24:02.509 timeline. Yes. For us, we just were saying, well, 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:04.490 we're going to build this under, we want to build 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:06.970 this, it's sovereign. We're going to build this 00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:08.569 state -of -the -art water treatment facility. 00:24:09.529 --> 00:24:11.869 And so people are looking at us like, well, how 00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:14.130 did you guys get it done so quick? But we took 00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:16.890 advantage of. Yes. And that's a big problem in 00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:19.089 the UK in terms of getting things done. There's 00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:25.170 a 30 billion HS2 that isn't going, or HS3 anyway, 00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:27.549 isn't going anywhere, but they spent millions 00:24:27.549 --> 00:24:31.630 on a bat tunnel. Okay. And consultation. Oh, 00:24:31.690 --> 00:24:34.250 we won't do that. Okay. We'll dig under and drove 00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:37.309 up the cost. So you're right. The European model 00:24:37.309 --> 00:24:42.579 is, you know, starting to. Because it can't serve 00:24:42.579 --> 00:24:44.680 all the needs and nothing gets done. Yes, exactly. 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.099 So you have that freedom because you're sovereign. 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:48.819 Well, it's its own economy, right? Because it's 00:24:48.819 --> 00:24:50.220 its own economy because you have departments 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.779 of people that are all focused on public consultation. 00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:54.740 And you have to have public consultation. We're 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:58.160 not against that. But the economic needs of our 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:01.079 nation with the English River far exceed that. 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.380 And we have our own internal, we have a land 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.839 development committee that's based off of community 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:11.619 members, elders, youth, elected officials. It's, 00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:13.559 you know, something that we're proud of with 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:17.079 English River is, and I mentioned at the summit, 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:21.220 was there hasn't been one chief. English River 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:25.019 and Desnethy is one of the most successful economic 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:29.740 development corporations in Canada. And, but 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:33.319 you'll never see an award given to one chief. 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.200 And because they've had multiple chiefs. And 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.099 so when I hear stuff about indigenous governance 00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:43.200 and I think about seven generation thought, English 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.759 River is one that has done this and they've done 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.019 it humbly and they don't put everything on social 00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:52.059 media. They don't put their signing an MOU on 00:25:52.059 --> 00:25:54.599 social media in a smudging ceremony. They just 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.960 do stuff. And so it was very proud of me at the 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.799 summit to put up pictures of eight chiefs and 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:05.549 see this growth over time. And does Netflix follow 00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:08.890 that model? We follow the Navajo model of a separation 00:26:08.890 --> 00:26:12.450 of business and politics. Yes, I recall you mentioning 00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:15.849 the Navajo model. I took notes. But can you explain 00:26:15.849 --> 00:26:18.170 to our viewers a bit more? Because Navajo, they'll 00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:20.609 think, okay, that's American. Yeah. Okay, what 00:26:20.609 --> 00:26:23.130 is that model? And I think it'd just be helpful 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:25.190 for people to understand. Many of the tribes 00:26:25.190 --> 00:26:27.910 in the United States have, you know. created 00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:31.170 really strong economic development hubs. And 00:26:31.170 --> 00:26:32.990 they just found early on that you had to just 00:26:32.990 --> 00:26:36.410 separate the chief and leadership, our nation 00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:39.890 builders, and let them focus on the business 00:26:39.890 --> 00:26:42.950 of developing the nation, but bring in the best 00:26:42.950 --> 00:26:45.759 business people to run your business. And you've 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.759 seen that in Canada a few times. There's a number 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.740 of examples that people have, and that's self 00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:53.059 -determination. The great thing about it is nations 00:26:53.059 --> 00:26:55.059 get to make their own choices. Right. So some 00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:57.160 nations go down and say, no, we want to employ 00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:58.759 as many of our own people as possible within 00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.299 our active. Okay. Well, maybe they don't have 00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:02.799 the sphere of influence, but that's what the 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:05.400 nation wants. English river said, no, we want 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.059 the, we want strong business people to run our 00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:10.160 economic development corporation and build up 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.900 our people and hand that over to our people at, 00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.990 at a. So it's all about just that separation 00:27:15.990 --> 00:27:19.789 of church and state. Yes. And so that model is 00:27:19.789 --> 00:27:23.089 taught through the Harvard School of Business, 00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:26.890 and it was given credit to the Navajo leadership 00:27:26.890 --> 00:27:28.490 who sort of said, no, this is the way we need 00:27:28.490 --> 00:27:30.410 to run our businesses. We were talking, and Mark 00:27:30.410 --> 00:27:35.029 and I, to a Seminole tribe in Florida, and they're 00:27:35.029 --> 00:27:39.609 head of the guy who runs their real estate portfolio, 00:27:39.829 --> 00:27:42.569 and they're generating more than a billion dollars 00:27:42.569 --> 00:27:47.069 of revenue. for the small Seminole tribe in central 00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:50.269 Florida. And so we got introduced to him expecting 00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:55.309 to speak to a Seminole elder. And he's a New 00:27:55.309 --> 00:27:58.509 York hedge fund guy who was hired by the tribe 00:27:58.509 --> 00:28:01.230 to run their portfolio. He's looking at investments 00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:05.609 all over the world. But he's a world -class investor 00:28:05.609 --> 00:28:09.650 himself. And over time, they'll build their own 00:28:09.650 --> 00:28:13.240 capacity. But yeah, that was it. And that's my 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.279 goal is to hand it over either to someone at 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.200 that caliber or to an English River band member. 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.019 And so we put up, you know, the community puts 00:28:20.019 --> 00:28:23.380 a lot of focus on education, but you know, it's 00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:25.059 always about, we need our own source revenue. 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.299 We cannot call ourselves self -determined if 00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:30.519 we're dependent on federal funding. Correct. 00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:32.920 And so it's, but at the same time, they want 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:34.720 to employ as many Indigenous people as possible. 00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:39.279 So, you know, we've, we've gone over the a hundred 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.140 million dollar mark. in both like the revenues 00:28:42.140 --> 00:28:44.880 we manage. And we've almost become an asset manager, 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:49.640 20 different companies. Some we own 5 % of, some 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.579 we own 100 % of. So we oversee a lot from a governance 00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:56.680 perspective. And with our companies, we're still 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.599 over 60 % Indigenous employment. And so a lot 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:02.579 of, you know, we push the boundaries of what 00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:06.359 we want to do. And some say, well, you're not 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.059 really, you know, we're community -based in everything 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:12.579 we do. We support our elders and our culture. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.660 I walk where lapels created by our elders. Yeah, 00:29:16.660 --> 00:29:18.980 sorry. Can you explain your lapel? Well, it's 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:21.940 a moose hide tufting. So it's all moose hide 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:23.759 and then they dye the tufting and then they create 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:28.000 this artwork. And I'm happy to take it out into 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.460 the world and share it and introduce people who 00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:33.299 are artists back home. But to me, it's a way 00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:37.039 of helping reinvigorate and make sure that Dene 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.200 culture stays alive and moves forward. And so. 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:42.799 Is there a typical meaning on that one or it's 00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.059 just. No, it's just getting nicer and nicer. 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:47.440 Like when I go to the, I sit on the board of 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.960 TELUS. TELUS is a national telecommunications 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.859 company. It's the Western base, probably the 00:29:54.859 --> 00:29:58.480 leader in telecommunications in Canada. And when 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.480 I go to that, they're always sort of giving me 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.819 your. Your pins keep getting up in value. Like 00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:06.599 when it looks like Christian Dior now who's making 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.460 the pins, but it's all, it's all of our artists 00:30:09.460 --> 00:30:11.700 in English River. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. 00:30:12.220 --> 00:30:15.339 Sean, you were with us at the summit, uh, your 00:30:15.339 --> 00:30:17.900 first time with us, but I know you've been to 00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:20.559 London other times, any general impressions? 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:25.079 No, I think it's very, uh, progressive. Um, and 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.160 I brought to me a lot of pride, as I mentioned, 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:30.380 just showcasing the story of English River in 00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:33.549 Desnathay. The world of institutional retail 00:30:33.549 --> 00:30:37.930 investors, foreign investors, you know, I'm trying 00:30:37.930 --> 00:30:42.369 to crack that code. I want to, you know, show 00:30:42.369 --> 00:30:45.230 that here we have a company that has strong processes, 00:30:45.569 --> 00:30:50.109 independence from politics, good return on our 00:30:50.109 --> 00:30:53.130 investment, just a culture of execution at Desnete. 00:30:53.690 --> 00:30:56.430 But also that we are one of the few that can 00:30:56.430 --> 00:31:01.420 work with so many global companies. You know, 00:31:01.420 --> 00:31:04.720 one of our companies sells all the coffee to 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.880 tell us, and we're talking to Scotiabank about 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.319 that now. We have another company that's selling. 00:31:09.579 --> 00:31:11.460 I've tasted that coffee, by the way. Solstice. 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.740 We have another company that's now selling indigenous 00:31:14.740 --> 00:31:19.640 rugs to Walmart. That's Ella Holtsey. That's 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.799 a partnership we have with BGIS, a large Canadian 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.099 company that does facilities management. I saw 00:31:25.099 --> 00:31:29.380 that, actually. We have another. You know, we 00:31:29.380 --> 00:31:31.559 did a deal with Weyerhaeuser to buy land that 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:34.819 they owned for 100 years. We have a first of 00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:37.619 its kind debt markets company, the Scotiabank. 00:31:38.259 --> 00:31:42.059 So we're very proud of the fact that we are executors, 00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:44.759 that we can get things done. And we just look 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.180 at now Canada going forward and Canada needing 00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:52.079 to evolve our trade relationships. Indigenous 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:54.319 people have showed up for Canada numerous times. 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.319 You know this, Rob, like stories around World 00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:58.700 War I and World War II and our elders. Well, 00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:00.440 showed up at the beginning when the first Europeans 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.480 arrived, if it wasn't for the Indigenous peoples. 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:05.259 They wouldn't have survived the winters. Many 00:32:05.259 --> 00:32:07.500 didn't when they didn't have good relations. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.140 But all, like everything, you mentioned Meech 00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:13.140 Lake. And so now we need to do it again. And 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.579 I really challenge Corporate Canada about if 00:32:15.579 --> 00:32:17.579 you're not doing it now, what's holding you up? 00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:19.380 Like, I really want to know, what is the issue? 00:32:19.819 --> 00:32:21.640 What do we need to do as Indigenous business 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:24.519 to up our game? Because there should not be any 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:29.099 more excuses. Indigenous companies add value, 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.400 tremendous value, not just on an ESG perspective, 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.039 not from your reconciliation action plans, but 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.440 from your value proposition you're doing as a 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.680 company through diversity. But just even in our 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:43.480 execution, our ability to attract people. People 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.119 ask me all the time about how can I hire more 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.900 Indigenous people? I'm like, I want to hire them. 00:32:49.069 --> 00:32:52.089 So I'm going to beat you at hiring them. Well, 00:32:52.150 --> 00:32:54.910 you talked about that at the summit, which I 00:32:54.910 --> 00:32:59.130 think you and I reflected that evening, is we 00:32:59.130 --> 00:33:01.410 have business leaders who happen to be Indigenous. 00:33:01.849 --> 00:33:04.529 And you were saying, you know, I want to compete 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:06.269 against others because they're the most hungry 00:33:06.269 --> 00:33:08.549 and aggressive. And they will bring us the top 00:33:08.549 --> 00:33:10.710 of the game, where some of the other companies 00:33:10.710 --> 00:33:14.009 are a bit too comfortable. And I think it's proven 00:33:14.009 --> 00:33:16.829 for the success of your group, the Zneti group. 00:33:17.390 --> 00:33:19.470 look at the portfolio of companies that you have 00:33:19.470 --> 00:33:22.589 and what you're doing. So I think that's really, 00:33:22.670 --> 00:33:25.130 really exciting. Just do more, right? It was 00:33:25.130 --> 00:33:26.670 great to have you at the summit. It's great to 00:33:26.670 --> 00:33:29.769 have you here today again. Spend a bit of time 00:33:29.769 --> 00:33:32.490 with us. We could have chatted for longer, but 00:33:32.490 --> 00:33:35.069 another time. Right on. Thanks, Mark. Thank you, 00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:38.789 Rob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Sean 00:33:38.789 --> 00:33:41.349 Willey for sharing his insights with us. And 00:33:41.349 --> 00:33:43.640 thank you for viewing and listening. Be sure 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:46.000 to share, subscribe, and leave a review on your 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.539 favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening 00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:50.420 to Drum Beats. Until next time.