Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brandt
and I are joined today by Sean Willey, President
and CEO of Desnetti Group, with operations that
include potash mines, nuclear facilities like
Bruce Power and Port Hope, and even 200 ,000
acres of mineral rights. South of the border
in West Virginia in the USA, Desnetti is redefining
Indigenous -led business success on a global
scale. Numerous partnerships include core construction
firms handling mechanical, electrical, civil,
and road work also enhance their portfolio. The
group demonstrates their commitment to managing
natural resource opportunities and helping First
Nations like English River progress by diversifying
economically. Sean Willey, President and CEO
of Desnetti. group. And I was struggling. You
wear so many hats. I wasn't sure which title
to introduce you by. That's the best one. Okay.
Well, it's great to have you back in London.
And thank you for stopping by the studio and
having a chat with us. Thanks for having me,
Rob. Thanks for having me, Mark. Great to have
you back again. Sean, where are you? Might want
to start by a bit of your personal background.
Where are you from? And how did you get to the
role you're playing today? Well, I was born in
Inuvik, Northwest Territories. We didn't live
there. I got flown in. My mom, who's a Dene woman
from her family, is a Mercury family. So Mercury's
run the cabinet in northern Saskatchewan, northern
Alberta, Northwest Territories. Her family's
from Fort Resolution, Deneuquay First Nation.
And my dad is from a small town in Saskatchewan
called Turtleford. And he came up to the Northwest
Territories and they met in Yellowknife. And
then they ended up in a small settlement called
Fort McPherson, which is in Gwich 'in country.
That's where I was born, but in Inuvik Hospital.
And then they moved us around. My dad was part
of the resource wildlife and economic development
departments of the government of Northwest Territories.
So then we moved around what's now Nunavut, back
to Yellowknife. So I spent a lot of time in Northwest
Territories. Then I started getting mining jobs
with the gold mines in Northwest Territories.
And they were all geared towards, you know, Northwest
Territories was doing a lot of proactive work
on hiring Indigenous kids. And this is mid -90s.
And so once, you know, I worked at the Lupin
gold mine in Nunavut. I worked at the Colomac
gold mine. And what kind of work would you be
doing? Just entry -level labor work. Yeah. Right?
And then your apprenticeship. But once you start
doing that and you start, oh, two weeks in, two
weeks out, you're making good money, then that's
what you want to do. You want to do resource
work. So I was lucky enough then to get a job
with Divec Diamond Mines, which was owned by
Rio Tinto. And Rio Tinto wanted to build the
second diamond mine in the country. And I got
tasked with going out to all of communities.
So within Treaty 8, Treaty 10, Clicho, Young
Lives Dene. So when you say, for our UK audience,
Treaty 8, Treaty 10, can you explain? Well, that's
the number of treaties that the Crown had signed
with Indigenous people, sort of to, after the
Royal Proclamation, to sort of tie up the land
on the Western Front. And the Royal Proclamation
was 1763. And that was the crowned king at the
time. I forget which king now. I'm thinking George
III. King George III. Yeah, Mad King George.
The Royal Proclamation, which is a bit of a bill
of rights for Indigenous people in Canada, that
the first declaration, as presumptuous as it
was for the king to lay out what he thought considered
to be, uh, the rights of indigenous people in
Canada. Uh, and then flowing from that, there
were treaties and, uh. So each treaty, you can
almost, so Treaty 10, there's a tie towards oil
and gas up in the Norman Wells area. So it was,
you know, Treaty 8, which is home to a lot of
the Dene communities. Um, it's Treaty 11 up in
Northwest Territory as well. So I got to work
with, I interviewed over 4 ,000 people in communities.
I, you know, I was. knew everybody, uh, who wanted
a job to come to Dyvik. Like the diamond mines
were game changers. And the fact that we're so
aggressive, we wanted to staff up indigenous
jobs, opportunities, training, employment. And
secondly, we wanted to create strong businesses.
So we did a lot of work on indigenous businesses
with the Clicho, the Alnates Dene, uh, the Katimi
at Inuit, the Norse slave Metis and Rio Tinto.
You know, I got to meet, it was at the time the,
the, um, The CEO was Sir Robert Wilson and his
Australian counterpart was Lee Clifford. And
they came over for the opening and I got to sit
and have supper with them. And they just released
this, we've changed the game for Rio Tinto and
our approach to working with indigenous people.
And a lot of that was my father's work. He had
done this in his previous life in the uranium
mines in northern Saskatchewan, now done it up
in Yellowknife. He left, I stayed up and spent
10 years with Rio Tinto. I had to go get my education.
So I'm a pragmatic individual. I wanted to get
this, I wanted to build the second diamond in
the country. We did that. And over 40 % indigenous
employment. At the end of the day, $3 billion
spent with local indigenous companies. Then I
went to Saskatoon, finished my education and
started working with a company called Chemical
Corporation. And chemical corporation was at
this time, the gold standard. It was the, you
know, had strong indigenous participation. You
had leaders there that fought to be at the table
to, and it really set the Canadian model for
indigenous inclusion. One where you saw indigenous
people participating on the environmental planning,
environmental monitoring, and then the reclamation
decommissioning activities. Cameco today, I think
are the largest employer of indigenous. Well,
they've come down a bit since the uranium market
has been in a challenge, I would say. Not the
last couple of years, it's coming back and Cameco's
coming back and that's what we're looking for,
is that employment level to come back. So when
COVID hit in the market, a community like English
River, who I now work for, I've spent 10 years
at Cameco, did a lot of great things there, you
know, represent them on the world stage. Like
it's, it's funny, Rob, when I worked for a diamond
mining company. And he talked to people and,
oh, diamonds, oh, that's sexy. But they really
don't have any value, really, once or twice in
their lives. But then you go to uranium, which
is used for baseload electricity, clean electricity,
and nobody wants to talk to you anymore. Nobody
wants to talk to you, right? And so I got to
go around the world. Both glow, no? Pardon me?
Yeah, both glow, yeah, both glow, yeah. I got
to go around the world for chemical meeting Indigenous
people who had uranium on their lands. And what
we did is we used the Northern Saskatchewan story.
So I, you know, 30 plus times down in Australia
and the Alpac to meet groups like the Mardu people,
very traditional land users, and bringing them
up to Northern Saskatchewan to show them what
could be possible and like leave the room. You
guys talk with our Indigenous leaders and they'll
tell you the good, bad, and the ugly of resource
development. But at the end of the day, it was
all about, you need own source revenue to move
your life forward, right? Our culture as indigenous
people, poverty is stripping away that culture.
And so what we really look to do is create role
models between nations to talk about the challenges
we all face from a socioeconomic point of view
and how to build up. And so did that good at
Cameco, saw English River, a Dennis Oudliné community,
myself, Dennis Oudliné background, reclaimed
my status. And just what English River built
through Desneffe was a pragmatic, humble, very
strong company, but they were too dependent on
chemical. Sorry, just. Yeah. You said reclaim
my status. Our UK listeners won't understand.
So my mother is a First Nation woman. So when
she, she was put into foster care, she became
a ward of the state. And so then. her family,
her mother had lost her status prior because
she was a woman that married a Metis individual.
And so it was just part of the Indian act of
rules where women were looked as if you, if you
married outside of your indigenous. or your First
Nation communities and didn't marry another First
Nation individual, you lose your status. So we
had to go, there's been a number of legislations
over the last, since 1984, I would say. I mean,
of course, men could marry outside. As usual.
Didn't matter. But women did, they lost their
status, sometimes lost their right to even live
on First Nations territory. Yeah, so you could
have a First Nation. man marry a non -Indigenous
woman and she would have then status benefits.
Right. Whereas his sister could marry a non -Indigenous
man and lose all her benefits. So my grandma
fell into that class. My mom fell into that class.
So we went through the process of reclaiming
that. And so that's now. So you could reclaim
that. That was because of change in the law?
Yeah. Oh, okay. There was lots of pushback from
Indigenous women throughout the country. And
there was numerous laws that were put in place.
And so I've reclaimed my status. I did not grow
up in the community. I'm always open about that.
I grew up outside the community because my mother
did not grow up in the community. But I always
listened to, I think that helped me. I really
craved the stories of elders and listening to
elders because I didn't get that opportunity
growing up. So in Yellowknife, the communities,
one thing English River was their elders. And
they said, you know, they're very pragmatic in
their approach of building business, being part
of the discussion. And so they created Desnethé,
which is the Dene word for great river, 40 plus
years ago. And they created it to support the
uranium industry, to provide jobs for their people,
to create own source revenue. And meeting English
River elders reminded me of the experience I
had in Northwest Territories, where the communities
were like, we need own source revenue. Hunting,
fishing, trapping, that's gone. Um, we need to
create our own source revenue so that we can
support education. We do not want our next generations
living in poverty. The land is sacred to us,
but let's get involved with that. Let's make,
let's, let's be sure we're part of the monitoring.
Be sure we're part of the planning, but we can
no longer have our young people live in poverty.
And so both communities, uh, it was so similar
that, you know, I would get in a good conversation
with chief and council of English river and say,
but you're too dependent on the uranium. How
do you, how do you diversify away from the uranium?
I said, you know, in 2011, you had the Fukushima,
you know, the tidal wave, the tsunami come in
and hit the power plant and. Changed nuclear.
Exactly. And took the market out. And so you
saw this coming and you sort of coached the nation
and their elders and their leadership just said,
okay, well. you're, you're indigenous. It's time
you come back and work for an indigenous firm.
Like quit working for these big companies, right?
We need your help on our side. And, uh, I felt,
yeah, that's, you know, working for big companies
is safe. It's secure, but you're really a manager
of a risk for that company. And it feels, it
feels safe and secure, but in all honesty, when
anybody works in a large organization, you feel
you're part of this big organization and you
don't seem to have to worry about where your
paycheck will come. And then one day. Yes. You
realize you're just a person in a big enterprise.
Yeah. Right? So. Well, I wanted to give back.
I had felt this entrepreneurialism in me and
I had a vision and an idea about how to, I was,
you know, JP Gladue was head of CCAB at the time.
I was one of his co -chairs. So I saw this trajectory
that indigenous business was on. I saw the court
cases, but. I'm also a pragmatic individual.
And I said, okay, we have all these court cases.
I have a very progressive First Nation who's
humble that wants to diversify and grow. How
can we create a tier one business that happens
to be Indigenous? And I just saw, I saw this
opportunity there. And if we didn't adjust things
a bit, and I'm thankful for all our leaders.
Like every once in a while, I'll have, I'll watch
a couple of those videos of. you know, constitutional
talks when you get, when you get some of those,
those like Jim Sinclair and Mary Simon, like
at the end, they're pounding the table and I'm
appreciative of those individuals that set the
table for our generation. Now we just have to
sort of take it up a notch, right? I was living
in Ottawa at the time of some of those constitutional
talks and my father ran a company that was, uh,
filming. It was a North American. Indian Films
Corporation, something like that at the time.
So I had a contract filming. I got, as a young
teenager, got to hang out in a lot of those big
constitutional meetings and just sort of wander
around. And it was, yeah, yeah, fascinating.
And then later on, eventually, Meech Lake. Yeah,
Meech Lake. And then Elijah Harper. Yeah, no.
Loved it all. And it had an influence and impact
on me growing up. Well, and I think we have to
just up our game. So you guys set the table for
us. How do we do that again? And so we wanted
to create a business. And so English River, you
know, use your rights and title to get that core
business. So, you know, I've been CEO at Des
Nathanael for eight years. Majority of that time
has been in a market downturn. And so what we
did was we went out and I've done a lot of work
for Corporate Canada. I know a lot of Canadian
CEOs. They want to do business with Indigenous
companies, but they're very honest saying you
have to match what our value proposition is at
our company, right? And so we've done a good
job at Desnet, a great job at Desnet. They're
going out and finding companies to do mergers
and acquisitions with, really indigenizing those
companies. taking a 51 to 75 % stake in those
companies, taking advantage of the procurement
opportunities in front of us. A very good compliment
that we get from Corporate Canada is that we're
very strategically focused. We think about strategy
over politics. We're not asking for a handout.
We're asking for a hand up. But we're also trying
to add value to everybody we're talking to. So
what is, what today is in the Desnede portfolio?
Oh, well, so you have your core group of construction
companies. So we have both mechanical, piping,
electrical. We also have civil earth moving companies.
So right now we do, we have a five -year contract
with the Department of Highways to do all the
road work in Saskatchewan. So we do that with
the province. We do work at potash mines. So
we set up well -filled sites for in -situ leach
on potash side. Um, Tron construction, uh, it
was sort of the first company the nation ever
bought is the only first nation company to work
in, uh, uranium mining in the power, uh, generation
sides. They've worked at Bruce power and they've
also worked in the fuel fabrication side at Port
Hope. So it's the only first nation company to
work in the full stream of nuclear. Um, I was
going to ask if your businesses are outside of
Saskatchewan now and yeah. And only in. at the
moment in Canada? No, one of the deals we just
completed was a land, a mineral rights purchase
deal with Weyerhaeuser in West Virginia. We own
about 200 ,000 acres of mineral rights right
in the Appalachians. It's full of metallurgical
coal. And we bought that last September. People
have said, well, we got into this deal as a minority
partner and becoming like Weyerhaeuser, love
the story. They love the ESG. Like I said, First
Nation from Northern Canada coming down, like,
how are you guys doing this? And we secured that
in September last year. We refinanced it in January
with strong support from our First Nations bank.
And now it's growing in value because. President
Trump is promoting resource development in the
United States. And here you have metallurgical
coal that's going up in value. You know, it's
funny that we have 200 ,000 acres of mineral
rights in West Virginia, but we have no mineral
rights where the English River traditional lands
are in Canada. So yeah, that's a bonus. And when
you talk about metallurgical coal, because coal
is in some places a dirty word, but what's different
about metallurgical coal? Well, it's just used
for the steel industry. And so, you know, we,
we, we don't do any of the mining. We just hold
the mineral rights. So we have a number of miners
on the land, um, and, uh, upping their productions
and selling it into different markets. Yeah.
For all steel production. But we also have a,
we've created a first ever partnership with Scotiabank
on, um, in the debt capital markets game and
Scotiabank has been an absolute. Gem to work
with three years to create that partnership.
That's with Cedar Leaf Capital. Cedar Leaf Capital.
Something you spoke about at the summit. Yes.
And we had two great partners. We have Rama First
Nation and Squamish First Nation were partnered
with there. We own a professional services company
called Creative Fire, which is doing really a
national work on just. Going beyond reconciliation
action plans. Well, your colleague Terry Lynn
was with us last year at the summit. Yes. At
the first summit. So it's, you know, a large
retail footprint. We run the largest gas station
in the province. We have the only liquor, beer,
and wine store on reserve in Saskatchewan. So
the nation has done a lot of things first. One
of the things they did first in Saskatchewan
was they bought land adjacent to the city of
Saskatoon. So for your listeners, Saskatoon is
the largest city in Saskatchewan, growing very
fast. Like the world wants the Saskatchewan resources.
So Saskatoon is the beneficiary of that. So the
nation bought land south of Saskatoon, perfect
land. It's on the busiest highway in the province.
We're in the highest per capita postal code in
the province. It's the fastest growing area in
the province. So they have this piece of land.
Everybody's on what they call septic. They don't
have sewage. So to develop our land, we needed
to put in a utility. Who owned that land? Who
was selling it? It was just landowners in Saskatchewan.
So you guys decided to put it together or? Yeah,
this was years ago. The nation through, because
when they signed treaty, they allocated a number
of acres per person that were there at treaty
signing. But of course, not everybody was there
at Treeside. Most of them were up on traveling
and fishing. It was a nice summer day. So that's
where they were up on the water. So only if they
were physically there on that day. Yeah, that's
how they calculated acres. So if they're out
there hunting or fishing, too bad you were trying
to feed your family on the wrong day. But then
they went back and they said, okay, all these
people were missing. And Saskatchewan was very
progressive in that. Like the indigenous community
has fought for a lot of, and so they fought for
what they call treaty land entitlement. Yes.
And so we got those acres back and the community
was very. They bought this land for economic
development purposes. And so in the last four
years, we've built a utility, water and wastewater
support our growth, but then our neighbor, so
you have what they call a rural municipality
and that's the fastest growing region. And they're
like, hey, can you guys, you think you could
service about 20 to 30 ,000 residents as this
thing grows? And we're like, absolutely. So now
we've partnered with EPCOR, a large Canadian
utility company. to run these utilities, provide
water, wastewater. But again, it gives, does
nothing in the nation, a foundational revenue
stream. Yes. And so one of the big things I was
excited to come to the summit was we're looking
for over a billion dollars, a partner, an investment
partner to help develop what we're looking at
is large retail, light industrial, recreational
facilities. South of Saskatoon and the city will
just eventually go around us with the potash
we have, with the oil and gas, with the uranium
that Saskatchewan has. People will just keep
coming to Saskatoon. The city will grow around
us, but we'll have this large piece of land that
will just generate millions of dollars for the
nation on top of their work in the mines. There's
not, there's one other first nation we've met
with that has. Mines that we have, the quality
of the uranium mines that we have, which will
last another 50 years, and urban land development.
So you've heard the stories of, you know, our
partners at Squamish developing their lands at
Squamish. We have that same opportunity, plus
these large mines in our backyard. Are you looking
like Squamish at acquiring? Non -reserve lands
and adding them to reserve lands. Well, I think
we'll look at them both ways. And that's the
problem with the Indian Act. If we buy more lands
and turn them into reserve, you can't leverage
them, right? We don't actually own anything.
This land that we own right now and that we're
in the process of expanding on, it's probably
worth $800 ,000 an acre. We have about 400 acres.
I guess the downside, if you don't make them
reserve lands, you are still, that land is subject
to the usual regulatory process. Yeah. And you
don't have as much control or ability to. Yeah.
And the way we structure companies, right? We
want the advantages and the tax advantages through
the GPLP model. And so we use the indirect. General
partnership and limited partnerships. So it's
the way that most economic development corporations
are structured in this country is to take advantage
of on -reserve status. Right. Yeah. So just to
segue for a bit, so very popular TV show over
here in the UK is Yellowstone. And the whole
thing was they were going to take the land back
onto the reserve. But downside to that. is you're
restricted in terms of what you can do with it.
So it might be good to keep it. I don't look
at it restricted. I don't, I think we've been
very aggressive. So when we built our water,
our wastewater facility, people were asking,
how did you, how did you get this done so quick?
And it was an education then for us to go out
and say, yes, we, we know all the negatives about
the Indian act and reserve lands, but how can
we as entrepreneurs find those points that add
value? Yes. And that, Rob raises a good one,
consultation. So the European model is now bogged
in consultation processes, right? And it's probably
30 % of their costs now on projects is, and the
timeline. Yes. For us, we just were saying, well,
we're going to build this under, we want to build
this, it's sovereign. We're going to build this
state -of -the -art water treatment facility.
And so people are looking at us like, well, how
did you guys get it done so quick? But we took
advantage of. Yes. And that's a big problem in
the UK in terms of getting things done. There's
a 30 billion HS2 that isn't going, or HS3 anyway,
isn't going anywhere, but they spent millions
on a bat tunnel. Okay. And consultation. Oh,
we won't do that. Okay. We'll dig under and drove
up the cost. So you're right. The European model
is, you know, starting to. Because it can't serve
all the needs and nothing gets done. Yes, exactly.
So you have that freedom because you're sovereign.
Well, it's its own economy, right? Because it's
its own economy because you have departments
of people that are all focused on public consultation.
And you have to have public consultation. We're
not against that. But the economic needs of our
nation with the English River far exceed that.
And we have our own internal, we have a land
development committee that's based off of community
members, elders, youth, elected officials. It's,
you know, something that we're proud of with
English River is, and I mentioned at the summit,
was there hasn't been one chief. English River
and Desnethy is one of the most successful economic
development corporations in Canada. And, but
you'll never see an award given to one chief.
And because they've had multiple chiefs. And
so when I hear stuff about indigenous governance
and I think about seven generation thought, English
River is one that has done this and they've done
it humbly and they don't put everything on social
media. They don't put their signing an MOU on
social media in a smudging ceremony. They just
do stuff. And so it was very proud of me at the
summit to put up pictures of eight chiefs and
see this growth over time. And does Netflix follow
that model? We follow the Navajo model of a separation
of business and politics. Yes, I recall you mentioning
the Navajo model. I took notes. But can you explain
to our viewers a bit more? Because Navajo, they'll
think, okay, that's American. Yeah. Okay, what
is that model? And I think it'd just be helpful
for people to understand. Many of the tribes
in the United States have, you know. created
really strong economic development hubs. And
they just found early on that you had to just
separate the chief and leadership, our nation
builders, and let them focus on the business
of developing the nation, but bring in the best
business people to run your business. And you've
seen that in Canada a few times. There's a number
of examples that people have, and that's self
-determination. The great thing about it is nations
get to make their own choices. Right. So some
nations go down and say, no, we want to employ
as many of our own people as possible within
our active. Okay. Well, maybe they don't have
the sphere of influence, but that's what the
nation wants. English river said, no, we want
the, we want strong business people to run our
economic development corporation and build up
our people and hand that over to our people at,
at a. So it's all about just that separation
of church and state. Yes. And so that model is
taught through the Harvard School of Business,
and it was given credit to the Navajo leadership
who sort of said, no, this is the way we need
to run our businesses. We were talking, and Mark
and I, to a Seminole tribe in Florida, and they're
head of the guy who runs their real estate portfolio,
and they're generating more than a billion dollars
of revenue. for the small Seminole tribe in central
Florida. And so we got introduced to him expecting
to speak to a Seminole elder. And he's a New
York hedge fund guy who was hired by the tribe
to run their portfolio. He's looking at investments
all over the world. But he's a world -class investor
himself. And over time, they'll build their own
capacity. But yeah, that was it. And that's my
goal is to hand it over either to someone at
that caliber or to an English River band member.
And so we put up, you know, the community puts
a lot of focus on education, but you know, it's
always about, we need our own source revenue.
We cannot call ourselves self -determined if
we're dependent on federal funding. Correct.
And so it's, but at the same time, they want
to employ as many Indigenous people as possible.
So, you know, we've, we've gone over the a hundred
million dollar mark. in both like the revenues
we manage. And we've almost become an asset manager,
20 different companies. Some we own 5 % of, some
we own 100 % of. So we oversee a lot from a governance
perspective. And with our companies, we're still
over 60 % Indigenous employment. And so a lot
of, you know, we push the boundaries of what
we want to do. And some say, well, you're not
really, you know, we're community -based in everything
we do. We support our elders and our culture.
I walk where lapels created by our elders. Yeah,
sorry. Can you explain your lapel? Well, it's
a moose hide tufting. So it's all moose hide
and then they dye the tufting and then they create
this artwork. And I'm happy to take it out into
the world and share it and introduce people who
are artists back home. But to me, it's a way
of helping reinvigorate and make sure that Dene
culture stays alive and moves forward. And so.
Is there a typical meaning on that one or it's
just. No, it's just getting nicer and nicer.
Like when I go to the, I sit on the board of
TELUS. TELUS is a national telecommunications
company. It's the Western base, probably the
leader in telecommunications in Canada. And when
I go to that, they're always sort of giving me
your. Your pins keep getting up in value. Like
when it looks like Christian Dior now who's making
the pins, but it's all, it's all of our artists
in English River. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent.
Sean, you were with us at the summit, uh, your
first time with us, but I know you've been to
London other times, any general impressions?
No, I think it's very, uh, progressive. Um, and
I brought to me a lot of pride, as I mentioned,
just showcasing the story of English River in
Desnathay. The world of institutional retail
investors, foreign investors, you know, I'm trying
to crack that code. I want to, you know, show
that here we have a company that has strong processes,
independence from politics, good return on our
investment, just a culture of execution at Desnete.
But also that we are one of the few that can
work with so many global companies. You know,
one of our companies sells all the coffee to
tell us, and we're talking to Scotiabank about
that now. We have another company that's selling.
I've tasted that coffee, by the way. Solstice.
We have another company that's now selling indigenous
rugs to Walmart. That's Ella Holtsey. That's
a partnership we have with BGIS, a large Canadian
company that does facilities management. I saw
that, actually. We have another. You know, we
did a deal with Weyerhaeuser to buy land that
they owned for 100 years. We have a first of
its kind debt markets company, the Scotiabank.
So we're very proud of the fact that we are executors,
that we can get things done. And we just look
at now Canada going forward and Canada needing
to evolve our trade relationships. Indigenous
people have showed up for Canada numerous times.
You know this, Rob, like stories around World
War I and World War II and our elders. Well,
showed up at the beginning when the first Europeans
arrived, if it wasn't for the Indigenous peoples.
They wouldn't have survived the winters. Many
didn't when they didn't have good relations.
But all, like everything, you mentioned Meech
Lake. And so now we need to do it again. And
I really challenge Corporate Canada about if
you're not doing it now, what's holding you up?
Like, I really want to know, what is the issue?
What do we need to do as Indigenous business
to up our game? Because there should not be any
more excuses. Indigenous companies add value,
tremendous value, not just on an ESG perspective,
not from your reconciliation action plans, but
from your value proposition you're doing as a
company through diversity. But just even in our
execution, our ability to attract people. People
ask me all the time about how can I hire more
Indigenous people? I'm like, I want to hire them.
So I'm going to beat you at hiring them. Well,
you talked about that at the summit, which I
think you and I reflected that evening, is we
have business leaders who happen to be Indigenous.
And you were saying, you know, I want to compete
against others because they're the most hungry
and aggressive. And they will bring us the top
of the game, where some of the other companies
are a bit too comfortable. And I think it's proven
for the success of your group, the Zneti group.
look at the portfolio of companies that you have
and what you're doing. So I think that's really,
really exciting. Just do more, right? It was
great to have you at the summit. It's great to
have you here today again. Spend a bit of time
with us. We could have chatted for longer, but
another time. Right on. Thanks, Mark. Thank you,
Rob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Sean
Willey for sharing his insights with us. And
thank you for viewing and listening. Be sure
to share, subscribe, and leave a review on your
favorite podcast channel. Thanks for listening
to Drum Beats. Until next time.