WEBVTT 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.060 Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:05.719 which explains why Indigenous partnerships are 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.679 the key to securing successful outcomes in natural 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:11.080 resource and infrastructure investment in Canada. 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.460 I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:16.760 and I are joined today by Harold Calla, Executive 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:18.660 Chair of the First Nations Financial Management 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:21.920 Board. With an impressive background in international 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:25.399 business, he discusses how FNB works to strengthen 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:28.140 the financial capacity of First Nations. helping 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:30.339 them navigate the complexities of capital markets 00:00:30.339 --> 00:00:33.280 and secure the funding necessary to advance their 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.799 economic goals. Harold Kalak, the Executive Director 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:40.619 of the First Nations Financial Management Board, 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:44.579 welcome to the Drumbeats podcast. Thank you very 00:00:44.579 --> 00:00:47.560 much for having me. Welcome, Harold. Great to 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:50.579 have you with us today. Thanks for taking time, 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:53.780 Harold. I'd like to start by asking you a bit 00:00:53.780 --> 00:00:56.909 about your... personal background, where you're 00:00:56.909 --> 00:01:00.950 from and how you ended up where you are today? 00:01:02.689 --> 00:01:04.989 Well, I've asked myself that question, how I 00:01:04.989 --> 00:01:10.650 ended up here. I'm a member of the Squamish First 00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:13.430 Nation in Vancouver, British Columbia, and then 00:01:13.430 --> 00:01:17.689 around Vancouver, British Columbia. I'm a FCPA, 00:01:17.849 --> 00:01:22.489 an accountant, and I grew up in a family business. 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:28.359 My father suggested that I stop pouring concrete, 00:01:28.459 --> 00:01:31.120 which is what our business was in, and go and 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.700 do something more meaningful. He felt it was 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:36.439 more meaningful, and I became an accountant in 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:40.219 1977. I spent most of my career in accounting 00:01:40.219 --> 00:01:42.500 working in the private sector with various companies 00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:47.579 as CFOs and came back to my community to work 00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:52.319 at their request in 1987 to begin to deal with 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:56.319 the emerging... economy that the Squamish nation 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:01.060 was building in downtown Vancouver. I did everything 00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:03.219 at the Squamish nation except social services, 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.920 I think. I started out as CFO and moved into 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:10.800 treaty negotiations and to, I think, looking 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.759 at opportunities. It became very apparent that 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.900 we could not achieve success until we were able 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:19.120 to move out of some sections of the Indian Act. 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:23.479 And that began a process of 20 years and four 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:26.900 different pieces of legislation that allows First 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:30.919 Nations on an optional basis to opt into alternatives 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.979 to the Indian Act, mainly in the areas of lands 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.900 and resources and economic development. And that's 00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:41.780 what I was sent away by my Squamish Council at 00:02:41.780 --> 00:02:45.419 the time that I was there to help create. The 00:02:45.419 --> 00:02:47.099 main one, of course, that we're talking about 00:02:47.099 --> 00:02:49.139 today is the First Nations Fiscal Management 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:54.159 Act that helped create the First Nations Financial 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.620 Management Board, the First Nations Finance Authority, 00:02:56.819 --> 00:03:00.419 and the First Nations Tax Commission. And these 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:04.340 were areas that Squamish, as well as a number 00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:07.219 of other First Nations in the country, felt we 00:03:07.219 --> 00:03:09.479 needed to have some changes in the relationship 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:12.020 with Canada around so that we could better... 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.979 engage in economic development on our own terms. 00:03:15.979 --> 00:03:19.860 The Financial Management Board built administrative 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:22.400 and financial capacity in First Nation communities 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.419 that they might not otherwise have. The First 00:03:25.419 --> 00:03:28.900 Nation Tax Commission supports First Nation and 00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:31.520 the exercise of fiscal powers that were gained 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:35.000 through the legislation. And the First Nation 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.780 Finance Authority emulates the BC Municipal Finance 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:42.060 Authority in a pool borrowing environment. that 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:45.259 allows for First Nations anywhere in Canada to 00:03:45.259 --> 00:03:49.460 access dementia financing to the financial authority 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:53.099 on rates and terms similar to the province of 00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:57.960 Ontario. It's a real achievement. We now have, 00:03:57.979 --> 00:04:01.639 of the 579 Indian Act bans, we have over 380 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.659 who have opted into this legislation. They are 00:04:05.659 --> 00:04:08.979 collecting over $100 million a year now in revenues. 00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:12.830 And the finance authority, on request from First 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:16.389 Nations, have accessed $3 billion, in excess 00:04:16.389 --> 00:04:19.930 of $3 billion in debt financing for them to meet 00:04:19.930 --> 00:04:25.389 their needs. So it's been a journey as we move 00:04:25.389 --> 00:04:29.610 towards gaining recognition of our inherent right 00:04:29.610 --> 00:04:32.490 to self -government in many different ways. But 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:35.889 we very quickly realized that we needed to be 00:04:35.889 --> 00:04:37.850 able to demonstrate accountability and transparency, 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:40.560 and we need to build. capacity in First Nation 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:44.319 communities, many of whom would only be familiar 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:48.759 with the responsibilities related to monitoring 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.800 the contribution agreements that they would receive 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.439 from the federal government to deliver programs 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:57.139 and services. Obviously, things have moved much 00:04:57.139 --> 00:05:00.120 beyond that now, moved into the mainstream of 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.079 the economy, and we now need to be in a position 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.720 where we can bridge almost 200 years of exclusion 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:10.420 by bringing an awareness and capacity to First 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:13.759 Nations so they can sit across the table as legitimate 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.720 and equal partners with those they want to deal 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.839 with. Yeah, there's a lot there, and that's quite 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:23.459 a triumvirate of organizations that spawned out 00:05:23.459 --> 00:05:29.160 of the fiscal management. Yes, we have the major 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:32.339 one that we're proud of is the First Nation Major 00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:35.470 Projects Coalition. Because what was happening 00:05:35.470 --> 00:05:38.769 in British Columbia in the late, around 2008 00:05:38.769 --> 00:05:42.709 to 2012, is there was a lot of talk of natural 00:05:42.709 --> 00:05:46.189 resource development. And the requirements for 00:05:46.189 --> 00:05:49.509 consultation and accommodation that came from 00:05:49.509 --> 00:05:52.870 the Supreme Court of Canada saw referral letters 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:56.009 going to many First Nations who did not have 00:05:56.009 --> 00:05:58.769 the confidence, the exposure, the experience 00:05:58.769 --> 00:06:02.189 to deal with multi -billion dollar projects. 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:05.439 And we needed to create critical mass and an 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:07.920 ability to provide the administrative support 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:12.040 that those groups needed to make free prior informed 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.660 consent decisions. And I think it's been invaluable. 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.660 There are now over 180 communities across the 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:21.180 country, mainly in the northern resource -rich 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:24.579 areas, who are participating in securing that 00:06:24.579 --> 00:06:28.040 kind of support. And just with a lot of these 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:30.420 organizations and communities you've talked about, 00:06:31.209 --> 00:06:34.230 B .C., I think the reason there's so much of 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:36.649 this going on in B .C. is because most of the 00:06:36.649 --> 00:06:39.230 land is not covered by a treaty. Is that correct? 00:06:39.829 --> 00:06:44.990 That's true. That's very true. But so, you know, 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:47.509 we were kind of on the leading edge of this. 00:06:47.949 --> 00:06:51.750 But I think that it's not the impact of Indigenous 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:54.069 rights and title are not restricted to those 00:06:54.069 --> 00:06:56.870 who have or don't have treaties. Those who have 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.110 treaties still are. required to be consulted 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:03.990 and accommodated. And it's more where we start 00:07:03.990 --> 00:07:06.449 from in terms of what the legal arguments might 00:07:06.449 --> 00:07:09.649 be. But I think Canada has recognized the duty 00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:14.230 is there to respond to the duty to consult and 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:16.250 accommodate, according to the UN declaration, 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:21.730 the UNDRIPA action plan by Canada itself. And 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:25.370 it's really producing results as a result of 00:07:25.370 --> 00:07:28.800 the activities that have taken place. And over 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.920 the last two or three years, I know that on one 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.180 of my first trips to London was with Minister 00:07:35.180 --> 00:07:37.980 Wilkinson to speak to the capital markets about 00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:40.899 investing in Canada. And so the pace has really 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:43.379 picked up in this country. The federal government 00:07:43.379 --> 00:07:47.220 has responded in ways that Minister Wilkinson 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:51.220 said they would. And that in one of the recent 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:53.680 budgets, they provided for a $5 billion loan 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.319 guarantee to support Indigenous participation. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.639 and major resource developments. So it's a very 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:04.860 quickly moving target, and particularly now that 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:09.199 there's a significant focus on how we should 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.939 respond to the election of Mr. Trump in the United 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:15.480 States and all of the activities that are related 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:19.519 to that. Yes. Yeah, we'll get on to that. And 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:25.000 if I'm simplifying, FMB would help prepare First 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.629 Nations. for the fiscal responsibilities that 00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:31.670 come with borrowing money, investing, taking 00:08:31.670 --> 00:08:35.149 equity stakes, managing money. The financial 00:08:35.149 --> 00:08:38.950 authority would assist in raising the funds necessary 00:08:38.950 --> 00:08:43.409 to deliver projects and other transactions. And 00:08:43.409 --> 00:08:46.610 the major projects coalition would assist in 00:08:46.610 --> 00:08:50.549 actually moving projects from start to completion. 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:54.720 Yeah, you've nailed it. I think one of the Things 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.559 that it was important to understand particularly 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.980 in the early years, if you have no experience 00:08:59.980 --> 00:09:02.940 or exposure to the kinds of economic activities 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:05.080 that are now present, and you've only dealt with 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.100 the management of program funding, it's very 00:09:08.100 --> 00:09:12.360 intimidating to be thrust into the limelight 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.460 of trying to consider the implications of investing 00:09:15.460 --> 00:09:18.720 in a $40 or $50 billion project as these First 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.230 Nations were in 2008 to 2012. And the outcome 00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:27.269 of that was fear and apprehension and an unwillingness 00:09:27.269 --> 00:09:31.370 to make a mistake caused there to be a pause 00:09:31.370 --> 00:09:34.250 in any kind of activity that was contemplated. 00:09:34.470 --> 00:09:39.250 And as a result of that, the natural gas activities 00:09:39.250 --> 00:09:41.850 that were contemplated during that period, which 00:09:41.850 --> 00:09:45.090 the then premier indicated were worth $40 billion, 00:09:45.490 --> 00:09:49.669 passed us by. First Nations weren't actively 00:09:49.669 --> 00:09:53.379 involved. in a way that saw final investment 00:09:53.379 --> 00:09:56.080 decisions made on many of these projects. They're 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.899 starting to now. But I think what we're seeing 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:02.259 now is a recognition on the part of everybody 00:10:02.259 --> 00:10:07.039 that First Nation participation in the assessment 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.779 and approval processes is important in ensuring 00:10:10.779 --> 00:10:14.460 that the economic benefits package that is negotiated 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:17.899 is reflected in those agreements. And that is, 00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:20.399 I think, our greatest hope at the moment is to 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:23.879 expedite those processes so that the other regulatory 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:27.399 processes that seem to be an impediment to getting 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.279 to final investment decisions are being refined 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.639 in this country. Absolutely. There is a recognition, 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.440 I think, amongst business and government now 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.500 that if you're going to get projects or other 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:43.100 transactions completed, you're going to have 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:46.799 to involve. in a meaningful way, Indigenous First 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:50.279 Nations communities. No better way to demonstrate 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:54.440 proper consultation than to have a First Nation 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.980 take an equity stake in a project and be a real 00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:02.279 partner with risk and responsibilities and a 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.399 seat at the board table. You've been around FMV 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.179 since its inception. Can you give us some examples 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:12.519 of the success stories or some of the files that 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:16.899 you're most proud of? Well, I think what we're 00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:20.740 most proud of is the fact that we are being successful 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:25.700 in achieving some confidence in First Nation 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:29.539 communities in themselves by virtue of them having 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:32.440 a better understanding of how to engage, how 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.700 to measure risk, and how to negotiate and participate 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:39.299 in discussions with the private sector. The big 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:41.639 successes, of course, that have been profiled 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.159 are The Clearwater transaction that the Big Maw 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.639 Nations and Atlantic Canada undertook to reach 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.279 an agreement to have a 50 % interest in a billion 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.580 -dollar company called Clearwater Seafoods. That 00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:01.860 has led to this group acquiring the largest shipyards 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:06.120 in Atlantic Canada to be able to look at being 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.440 part of their own economic activity and fleet 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:12.320 renewal. So I think those are tremendous successes 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.580 that show that when you have access to capital 00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:21.279 at reasonable rates and terms, it just snowballs. 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:24.100 One thing leads to another. You start to achieve 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:27.779 economies of scale, and that moves forward. So 00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:30.399 I think that's been a tremendous success. The 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.360 province of Ontario, in looking at transmission 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.320 lines, engaged in a partnership with First Nations. 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:40.019 That's been another tremendous success in terms 00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:42.980 of both provincial and federal governments getting 00:12:42.980 --> 00:12:46.100 on side and recognizing the opportunities there 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:49.539 and getting First Nations to appreciate that 00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:52.500 they can achieve some of their objectives through 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:54.820 these kinds of partnerships. That's another tremendous 00:12:54.820 --> 00:12:58.980 success. The Heisler First Nation and the Cedar 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:03.340 LNG project is another huge success, where now 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:07.309 the First Nation itself will own the... largest 00:13:07.309 --> 00:13:10.970 natural gas plant, production plant in the world, 00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:13.769 quite frankly, at the moment. And again, through 00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:17.809 their chief just acknowledged at an AFN meeting 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:20.889 in Vancouver that without the First Nation Fiscal 00:13:20.889 --> 00:13:24.409 Management Act institutions, they might not have 00:13:24.409 --> 00:13:27.690 been down this path and able to do what they've 00:13:27.690 --> 00:13:31.169 done. So those are really significant successes 00:13:31.169 --> 00:13:36.419 in terms of what we've achieved. But there are, 00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:39.720 you know, communities like Fisher River Cree 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.259 Nation of Manitoba that have developed kind of 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:45.740 like a micro economy within their own region. 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:49.039 So they now have invested in the development 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.539 of the infrastructure and businesses to provide 00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:54.899 materials and supplies to the region as a result 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:57.919 of gaining some confidence and moving into business. 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.139 I think more importantly. Communities are now 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.080 recognizing that there are rights and obligations 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.379 to the government of Canada that eventually they'll 00:14:06.379 --> 00:14:09.399 come to terms with. But in the meantime, they 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.600 have needs in their community. And they need 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.440 to be in a position where economic opportunity 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.299 doesn't pass them by, that they are engaging 00:14:17.299 --> 00:14:20.139 and developing in those things. So it's not just 00:14:20.139 --> 00:14:22.340 at the macro level. It's also at the micro level 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:25.100 that we're having a tremendous impact. And as 00:14:25.100 --> 00:14:28.379 you all well know, many micro are economies generally. 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:32.690 are resourced by the many micro kinds of activities 00:14:32.690 --> 00:14:35.850 that are involved. And I think this is helping 00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:39.330 First Nations become more self -reliant, develop 00:14:39.330 --> 00:14:42.549 unemployment, and reduce the impacts of the cost 00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:46.570 of poverty. Maybe we can talk about some specific 00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:50.110 initiatives. I know the FMB commented on the 00:14:50.110 --> 00:14:53.090 BC government's action plan for the province. 00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:55.610 You advocated for a stronger connection between 00:14:55.610 --> 00:15:00.379 social and economic aspects. of the plan to empower 00:15:00.379 --> 00:15:03.600 First Nations in their pursuit of self -governance? 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:08.240 Yeah, I think, you know, often policy statements 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:13.159 are made and initiatives are undertaken. And 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.379 then we think that we're done. We don't measure 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.340 the success, failure, or the impacts of these 00:15:19.340 --> 00:15:22.899 kinds of initiatives. And I think many of the 00:15:22.899 --> 00:15:29.450 efforts around UNDRIP And in particular, BC's 00:15:29.450 --> 00:15:34.330 action plan, in our view, did not provide a meaningful 00:15:34.330 --> 00:15:39.950 insight into the success and impacts that their 00:15:39.950 --> 00:15:42.490 policies were going to have on indigenous people 00:15:42.490 --> 00:15:46.009 or laying out the requirements. You know, I was 00:15:46.009 --> 00:15:52.550 at an event last Friday when the premier. released 00:15:52.550 --> 00:15:56.289 to the Vancouver Board of Trade comments regarding 00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:59.169 the budget that they had just released. And one 00:15:59.169 --> 00:16:02.009 of the interesting comments that he made regarding 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:05.710 their desire to see an expansion of LNG sales 00:16:05.710 --> 00:16:09.590 abroad was that they were not abounding the principle 00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:12.509 of indigenous economic inclusion and equity. 00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:16.370 And I think that was a very significant move 00:16:16.370 --> 00:16:19.309 forward by the provincial government to continue 00:16:19.309 --> 00:16:22.320 to respect that the action plan does require 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.000 things to be actually visible and done on the 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.940 ground. And I think that was the concern that 00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:33.000 we had. We also looked to the opportunity for 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.480 better inclusion of First Nation peoples in the 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.159 various sectors within government and within 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.960 the private sector itself. We don't have the 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.519 opportunity to spend 200 years to evolve. Canada 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.320 and the world needs us to step forward in a much... 00:16:50.539 --> 00:16:53.559 more quick fashion. And in order to do that, 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:56.480 we need to benefit from the exposure and experience 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.340 that is elsewhere. And we need to be brought 00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:02.779 in and we need to be a part of the processes 00:17:02.779 --> 00:17:04.839 that are being followed elsewhere and to be in 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.119 a position where we can bring that experience 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:09.900 and exposure back to our communities to facilitate 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:13.299 our communities dealing with the matters that 00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:15.339 are before them around economic development. 00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.539 So, Harold, I think that's such a critical statement 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:22.940 you need that Canada and the world can't wait. 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.000 Yes. Right? And I think all this is coming together 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.460 with the First Nations authorities that were 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:32.900 set up a number of years ago because now we're 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:36.220 in a completely changed environment in Canada. 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.000 And for the first time in 200 years, the indigenous 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.259 people have a leadership role to play in shaping 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:45.779 the country that we all live in together now. 00:17:46.349 --> 00:17:51.490 uh canada where as if this crisis had happened 00:17:51.490 --> 00:17:54.490 50 years ago there wouldn't be that voice and 00:17:54.490 --> 00:17:56.710 we wouldn't move the country forward in a way 00:17:56.710 --> 00:17:59.690 that benefits all the people who live there and 00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:01.069 of course the indigenous people have been there 00:18:01.069 --> 00:18:04.750 for millennia so i i think that's important and 00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:08.210 is a differentiator for canada about who we are 00:18:08.210 --> 00:18:12.769 as a people and as a nation well i couldn't agree 00:18:12.769 --> 00:18:17.170 more and I was fortunate enough to be invited 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:19.049 by the government candidate to sit on the board 00:18:19.049 --> 00:18:22.769 of Trans Mountain and the pipeline expansion. 00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:28.789 That initiative got mired in almost a couple 00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:32.809 of decades of approval processes. And it wasn't 00:18:32.809 --> 00:18:36.789 until there was an enlightened attitude by the 00:18:36.789 --> 00:18:38.670 Trans Mountain Corporation itself that it needed 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:42.470 to get First Nation consideration and approvals 00:18:42.470 --> 00:18:48.259 to the extent that it can. or could. And as a 00:18:48.259 --> 00:18:51.500 result, they went out and got almost 60 communities 00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:56.099 along the pipeline route to be part of an initiative 00:18:56.099 --> 00:19:04.079 to help build the pipeline. It resulted in almost 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:11.319 $6 .5 billion worth of projects during the construction 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.950 period being provided to First Nation. Companies 00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:17.390 or joint ventures. 11 % of the workforce was 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:20.890 Indigenous that peaked at 7 ,700 people. There 00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:23.630 was about $600 million in impact benefit agreements. 00:19:24.009 --> 00:19:26.849 And now we're starting to talk about an equity 00:19:26.849 --> 00:19:30.289 position in First Nations. And I think that as 00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:32.470 Canada, in the face of the current circumstances, 00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:34.690 is now starting to talk about more pipelines 00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:38.390 and more capacity to export its fossil fuel resources, 00:19:38.769 --> 00:19:41.069 this is a model that I think will facilitate 00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:44.059 the kind of conversations. that need to take 00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:46.619 place that will expedite the approval processes. 00:19:47.619 --> 00:19:52.220 You know, there's a lot more involved in reforming 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:54.259 the regulatory process than just the Indigenous 00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:57.400 issues, for sure. But I think having the Indigenous 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:02.559 issues on side and supportive will help facilitate 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.140 those regulatory processes. I think I'm also 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:08.440 observing that there is an interest in the international 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:12.599 capital markets to see that countries like Canada, 00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:17.930 who adopt a plan to implement UNDRIP to measure 00:20:17.930 --> 00:20:19.750 how they're doing, how they're moving towards 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.650 net zero. And I think, again, engaging with First 00:20:23.650 --> 00:20:30.369 Nations is a way in which these activities can 00:20:30.369 --> 00:20:32.529 be seen by the investment community as viable. 00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:37.750 Harold, our international listeners might be 00:20:37.750 --> 00:20:41.630 interested in the status of any potential sale 00:20:41.630 --> 00:20:46.190 of... the Trans Mountain pipeline. What can you 00:20:46.190 --> 00:20:51.849 tell us about? Well, I can tell you that the 00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:57.309 government maintains its interest to return the 00:20:57.309 --> 00:21:02.430 company to the private sector. I think it is 00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:06.910 prudently doing so in a way that the value that 00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:10.589 has been created is realized in the sale. So 00:21:10.589 --> 00:21:15.789 there's no change. In that perspective, I guess, 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:19.950 and that's been made clear. We're at a point 00:21:19.950 --> 00:21:24.230 in time where the project commenced operations 00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:30.630 in December. Many of those around who have been 00:21:30.630 --> 00:21:33.549 involved in these kinds of initiatives and startups 00:21:33.549 --> 00:21:39.569 were absolutely amazed at how flawless the startup 00:21:39.569 --> 00:21:43.230 of this operation was. And it's achieving great 00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:48.670 success. The turmoil that is in place at the 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:51.369 moment around the world on many different fronts 00:21:51.369 --> 00:21:57.009 is, I think, putting pressure on the creation 00:21:57.009 --> 00:22:01.150 of external markets. And as users of fossil fuels 00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:04.650 and other energy sources are starting to scramble 00:22:04.650 --> 00:22:10.990 to find alternatives, I would like to say that 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.720 You know, where people wondered if and why the 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.720 Trans Mountain Pipeline was being built, that 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:20.299 is no longer a question, given events of the 00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.799 last couple of months. So, you know, and the 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.759 question is, how do we look at expanding the 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:29.920 ability to access the international markets? 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.880 We can get to Asia from the West Coast, but get 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.539 to India and Pakistan, we need to go to the East 00:22:35.539 --> 00:22:37.839 Coast. So those kinds of conversations, I'm sure. 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.980 are going to take place over the next little 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:42.539 while. So I think there's going to be tremendous 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:45.359 investment opportunities in Canada over the next 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.279 five to 10 years in some of these major initiatives. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.819 Are you noticing a different approach from your 00:22:51.819 --> 00:22:55.500 members of the FMB because of the turmoil the 00:22:55.500 --> 00:23:00.299 last couple of months? Absolutely. I had the 00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:03.579 pleasure of presenting. at the Assembly of First 00:23:03.579 --> 00:23:06.740 Nations meeting in Vancouver. And the Assembly 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:09.180 of First Nations is a national political body 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:13.299 of First Nations. And they had an UNDRIP session 00:23:13.299 --> 00:23:16.599 where they talked about UNDRIP and the implementation 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:22.000 and couldn't help but talk about the effects 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:29.920 of Trump. And FMB hosted a side event talking 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.869 about UNDRIP. and economic reconciliation. There 00:23:34.869 --> 00:23:39.390 was standing room only in the event. And we had 00:23:39.390 --> 00:23:41.710 Crystal Smith from Haisla stand up and give a 00:23:41.710 --> 00:23:45.950 testimonial about how the Cedar LNG project benefited 00:23:45.950 --> 00:23:49.509 from the support of the FMA institutions. You 00:23:49.509 --> 00:23:52.569 can't ask for a better PR program. initiative 00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:55.890 than that. And I think you're going to be hearing 00:23:55.890 --> 00:23:59.230 from member two in London regarding the work 00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:02.869 that was done with the financial institutions 00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:07.609 in their acquisition of Clearwater Seafood. So 00:24:07.609 --> 00:24:09.309 I think there's an interest. I think there's 00:24:09.309 --> 00:24:12.490 an apprehension in the First Nation communities 00:24:12.490 --> 00:24:17.410 about any potential that there being the influence 00:24:17.410 --> 00:24:21.839 of others to create. a 51st state in Canada. 00:24:23.059 --> 00:24:29.000 Our whole system is based upon the historical 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:32.740 creation of this federation, and Indigenous relationships 00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:36.579 would have to take a 180, and who knows where 00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:40.299 they'll end up. I can't believe there's any desire 00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:43.319 on the part of First Nation communities to see 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:47.000 the Indigenous file handed over to Washington, 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:53.460 D .C. I was at an event for the Aboriginal Financial 00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:57.759 Officers Association in Halifax in the last month. 00:24:57.859 --> 00:25:00.259 And the chief of RAMA came up and talked to me 00:25:00.259 --> 00:25:01.980 and said he had just come home from the States. 00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:05.259 And he was playing golf. And the people he was 00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:09.859 golfing with asked what he thought of Mr. Trump's 00:25:09.859 --> 00:25:12.839 suggestion. And he said, I had to think for a 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.400 minute. And he said, well, I'll tell you this. 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:19.880 They stole my land once. I haven't dealt with 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:21.980 them yet. So let's wait for that to get resolved 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.839 before we have to deal with Mr. Trump. Chief 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:32.059 Ted Williams. Yes, we had Chief Ted Williams 00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:35.960 on a podcast recently as we did Chief Crystal 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.900 Smith. So all these names and individuals you 00:25:38.900 --> 00:25:42.019 talk about, I mean, this is really how it's working 00:25:42.019 --> 00:25:43.900 in Canada today. But you've mentioned in the 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:47.359 past that you've, of course. been exposed and 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.160 worked with the international capital markets. 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.299 What is the perception of Canada when you're 00:25:52.299 --> 00:25:55.000 talking to them and the additional perception 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.000 of the role of Indigenous peoples now of those 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.559 conversations? Well, I think there's not a good 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.460 comprehension about the legal framework that 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:10.720 exists in Canada. And, you know, not to go in 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.579 a protracted history lesson, but you have to 00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:16.450 go back to the Royal Proclamation. you know, 00:26:16.450 --> 00:26:23.470 of 1763. And that lays out some of the concepts 00:26:23.470 --> 00:26:28.430 that preserve the existence of Aboriginal rights 00:26:28.430 --> 00:26:32.089 and title and the need to engage with them. So 00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:34.289 not many in the international community understand 00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:37.930 that. And many of the regions where we have relationships 00:26:37.930 --> 00:26:41.130 with Indigenous communities are places like Australia, 00:26:41.450 --> 00:26:44.750 New Zealand. Finland and even the United States 00:26:44.750 --> 00:26:48.809 don't understand the legal basis for the requirement 00:26:48.809 --> 00:26:53.390 to engage with Indigenous people. They also haven't 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:55.710 understood how we were marginalized historically 00:26:55.710 --> 00:27:01.150 and why we find ourselves in a position of extreme 00:27:01.150 --> 00:27:05.289 poverty, of no significant economic development 00:27:05.289 --> 00:27:07.769 opportunity or emerging economic development 00:27:07.769 --> 00:27:11.410 opportunity. Within Canada, I consider First 00:27:11.410 --> 00:27:14.220 Nations. are emerging third world economies. 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.279 And that may sound strange to some, but that's 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.099 in fact what we are. And I think once people 00:27:22.099 --> 00:27:25.640 realize that and they realize that the governments 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.579 have moved to take some action, the creation 00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:30.740 of the legislative frameworks that I've spoken 00:27:30.740 --> 00:27:34.599 of have been major steps forward. The seeding 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:37.160 of some fiscal room has been a major step forward 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.460 and the exercise of self -government. More conversations 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:45.039 are taking place within Canada on that. I think 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.740 that the international community is pleased to 00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.220 see the government is stepping in and not expecting 00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:58.319 the private sector to pay for the price for non 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.920 -indigenous inclusion in the economy, that the 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.099 government in Canada will step up and do that, 00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:06.920 and that it should not be an added burden to 00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:10.109 the cost of... developing a project or the returns 00:28:10.109 --> 00:28:12.890 on the project, what they have to be willing 00:28:12.890 --> 00:28:17.470 with is to share in that. And it's the same old 00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:21.049 story. Do you want 100 % of nothing or a percentage 00:28:21.049 --> 00:28:23.430 of something? And I think what we're looking 00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:26.549 at here is a percentage of something that's reflective 00:28:26.549 --> 00:28:32.190 of the contributions that each are making to 00:28:32.190 --> 00:28:35.049 the creation of these opportunities. It's no 00:28:35.049 --> 00:28:39.250 secret that The strategic metals are very much 00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:42.029 in the forefront of these conversations around 00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:45.329 the world, quite frankly. I mean, for those of 00:28:45.329 --> 00:28:48.309 us who are here in Canada, you look at what Trump 00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:52.750 is saying about Greenland, about Iceland, about 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.269 the Arctic and about Canada. It's all about getting 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:59.609 access to the resources. And I think that people 00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:03.240 are now recognizing that in order to. quickly 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.960 get access to those resources so we can develop 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:10.420 independent supply and have more secure economies 00:29:10.420 --> 00:29:13.220 that we need to include in business people and 00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:17.359 we need to do it in a timely way. We can't find 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.859 ourselves going back to the courts, to the Supreme 00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:21.759 Court of Canada to try to make some of these 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:24.740 decisions. It is high time for there to be leadership, 00:29:25.059 --> 00:29:28.079 political leadership that recognizes these things 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.759 and embraces the concepts that are being put 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:35.380 forward. for inclusion and meaningful economic 00:29:35.380 --> 00:29:38.660 participation. I think if we do those things 00:29:38.660 --> 00:29:42.200 and the international community sees that there 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.839 is a much clearer path to a final investment 00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:47.640 decision, they will welcome the opportunity to 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.380 invest in Canada. Thank you. Really well articulated 00:29:51.380 --> 00:29:53.980 for our listeners, particularly here in the city. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.539 But in terms of, I think this is my perspective. 00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.440 I think now that Canada is addressing these issues, 00:30:01.660 --> 00:30:04.619 it actually puts us ahead of other places that 00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:06.619 haven't resolved these Indigenous issues, that 00:30:06.619 --> 00:30:08.460 don't have some of those underlying treaties. 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.599 Whereas at the moment, it might seem, oh, well, 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.900 it's easy to get things done there. But there 00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:15.019 will be a price to pay that gets bigger every 00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:17.859 day that it's not done. And I think your comment 00:30:17.859 --> 00:30:24.900 about underdeveloped communities in Canada, that 00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:27.880 holds the whole country back. Right. Rather, 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.559 there is we understand why. But by addressing 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.299 them, as you said, that uplifts the whole country. 00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:38.259 And that just feeds growth across all of Canada 00:30:38.259 --> 00:30:42.599 for everyone. Well, I've just reviewed an op 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.819 ed piece that's going to be released soon about 00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:47.880 Canada's sovereignty and the impact of the indigenous 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:52.700 economy, how intertwined those are. I think that 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.920 it's absolutely essential. The Canadians understand 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.079 that indigenous economic development is in all 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.680 Canadians' interests. It's in the world's interest 00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:08.319 that Canada is able to bring to like -minded 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:11.920 First Nations the resources that Canada has to 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.980 offer to stabilize those economies. We're part 00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:19.099 of a solution. We're not part of a problem. And 00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:22.400 I think that the more people... begin to appreciate 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.519 that there are pathways to achieve those outcomes, 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.240 the more comfortable they are in that kind of 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.960 notion. We complain a lot about Canada sometimes, 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.019 but I tell you, I travel around the world and 00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:38.599 speak to indigenous communities, and I come back 00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:40.779 to Canada appreciating how far we've come and 00:31:40.779 --> 00:31:45.039 how far Canada has come. I was just in Finland 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.299 with Minister Hajdu meeting with the Finnish 00:31:47.299 --> 00:31:51.519 government and the Sami people. And they're now 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.420 starting to look at what we do and how we do 00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:57.859 it. I'm going back to Australia for the fourth 00:31:57.859 --> 00:32:02.180 time in May, again, to speak to their government 00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:06.359 officials about how you involve Indigenous people 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.339 in the economy. Because what's happening throughout 00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:13.039 the world, Indigenous communities are beginning 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.200 to migrate, if they're not already, into the 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.720 cities. So you're dealing with the consequences 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:23.220 of that. And the challenges around poverty and 00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:26.720 other issues that that creates. So we need to 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:28.859 be in a position where we're starting to address 00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:34.140 those issues globally. And a lot of people are 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:37.220 looking, a lot of countries, New Zealand, the 00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:41.119 United States, Australia, Finland, are looking 00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:44.480 at what Canada has done and how the First Nations 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.039 in Canada have responded to the opportunities 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.440 that are before them. When you go to a political 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:54.559 meeting now in Canada, we're never abandoning 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.700 Aboriginal and Haitian title. But often the topic 00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:01.299 about economic development is the first topic 00:33:01.299 --> 00:33:05.359 that's raised. We're tired of waiting for somebody 00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.980 to take care of us. We're prepared to take care 00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:10.759 of ourselves as long as we're given the tools 00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:15.880 that others are able to have. And as long as 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.660 there isn't an expectation. That we're all going 00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:22.940 to agree. I'm always humored by the fact that 00:33:22.940 --> 00:33:25.180 everybody wants unanimous consensus from the 00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:28.160 Indigenous community. And I've asked myself and 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.960 parliamentary committees, quite frankly, why 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.539 that expectation is put on us when you can't 00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:37.799 do that yourself. So there will be a majority 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:41.140 kind of decision moving forward. We don't want 00:33:41.140 --> 00:33:43.259 to force the kind of things that we talk about 00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:48.789 on anybody. But what we see. As those of us who 00:33:48.789 --> 00:33:50.890 are involved with the communities who are our 00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:54.349 clients, as they move through our processes, 00:33:55.309 --> 00:33:58.410 their well -being index improves, their own source 00:33:58.410 --> 00:34:00.710 revenue improves, the employment opportunities 00:34:00.710 --> 00:34:04.150 improve. Everything gets better in those communities. 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:07.029 And it's not just because of us. It's because 00:34:07.029 --> 00:34:10.590 of those communities having the confidence to 00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:12.789 make the decisions that they need to make. And 00:34:12.789 --> 00:34:15.130 sometimes those are hard decisions that they 00:34:15.130 --> 00:34:18.340 have to make. But they see a path forward and 00:34:18.340 --> 00:34:21.380 they see through the institutions the kind of 00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:23.900 technical support and administrative support 00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:27.579 that they need to be able to demonstrate that 00:34:27.579 --> 00:34:31.760 their goals and objectives are achievable. Harold, 00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:36.559 you've seen the evolution in Canada and in Indigenous 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.739 participation over the years. You've put in a 00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:43.260 lot of time. There are other things you could 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:46.070 be doing. at this stage of your career, but you 00:34:46.070 --> 00:34:48.789 keep going. What excites you? What's coming next 00:34:48.789 --> 00:34:52.730 that keeps you coming in to the office every 00:34:52.730 --> 00:34:57.929 day? Well, I thought I was retiring in December. 00:34:59.030 --> 00:35:02.309 My governor and council appointment ended, but 00:35:02.309 --> 00:35:06.050 they seemed to want me for another three years. 00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:10.889 And I accepted because I see opportunity. I said 00:35:10.889 --> 00:35:12.949 to them, I'm prepared to if we're doing something. 00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.679 If this is just managing the status quo, I'm 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:20.440 gone. And so what does that mean? That means 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:22.960 we need, in this country, improved access to 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:26.099 capital, improved capacity development funding 00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.960 into our First Nation communities, the development 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.900 of additional institutions to be able to support 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:35.119 the development of real self -government in this 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:38.599 country, to be able to devolve the Department 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:42.389 of Indigenous Services Canada. into First Nation 00:35:42.389 --> 00:35:45.849 institutions and organizations. There is going 00:35:45.849 --> 00:35:48.829 to be a third order of government in this country, 00:35:48.949 --> 00:35:53.369 and people don't need to be afraid of it. It'll 00:35:53.369 --> 00:35:56.730 be more effective than the present system of 00:35:56.730 --> 00:35:58.750 delivery through a federal government transfer. 00:35:59.230 --> 00:36:02.090 We've seen examples of it through initiatives 00:36:02.090 --> 00:36:04.210 like the First Nation Health Authority in British 00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.570 Columbia. We've taken over all of that from the 00:36:07.570 --> 00:36:09.070 provincial government, funded by the federal 00:36:09.070 --> 00:36:10.929 government, and we're delivering better results 00:36:10.929 --> 00:36:13.289 and better outcomes as a result of it. We're 00:36:13.289 --> 00:36:16.389 able to have the flexibility in designing programs 00:36:16.389 --> 00:36:19.849 that meet our services and obligations. And so 00:36:19.849 --> 00:36:23.070 I think that's what excites me. From the Financial 00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:25.329 Management Board's perspective, you need to have 00:36:25.329 --> 00:36:28.889 the accountability and transparency, not only 00:36:28.889 --> 00:36:33.150 to those who provide revenues to First Nations. 00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.340 but to our citizens that we have the ability 00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:38.960 to undertake these kinds of initiatives. And 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:42.300 I think that's what excites me. More and more 00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:45.179 First Nations are understanding the value of 00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:46.880 good financial management and certification. 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.780 We're starting to understand the implications 00:36:49.780 --> 00:36:52.780 of the economic activities that we're undertaking 00:36:52.780 --> 00:36:56.860 around the reporting in the BAN's financial statements 00:36:56.860 --> 00:36:59.460 about general... government business enterprises 00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:03.980 and nonprofits. We're moving from a very rudimentary 00:37:03.980 --> 00:37:07.340 economics and financial system to one in the 00:37:07.340 --> 00:37:09.320 21st century, and we're going to have to do it 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:13.800 in less than 20 years. So old guys like me need 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.619 to stay around and offer some thoughts. I'm glad 00:37:17.619 --> 00:37:19.300 to hear that you are sticking around, Harold, 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.119 and I want to, on behalf of all First Nations 00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.280 communities, want to thank you for your service 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:26.480 over the years and the part that you've played. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.579 and making some of those things that we've discussed 00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:33.480 come to fruition. Well, a lot of people have 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:36.079 contributed to that. We sometimes are seen as 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.960 the figureheads, but it is the Crystal Smiths 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.380 of the world. That's what brings me to work every 00:37:42.380 --> 00:37:47.559 day. It is seeing her success as an individual 00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:51.300 and gaining the confidence and the capacity to 00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:54.619 do what she's doing with the support of the institutions. 00:37:55.550 --> 00:37:59.530 And seeing the need for that. That was our dream 00:37:59.530 --> 00:38:01.750 when we started talking about creating these 00:38:01.750 --> 00:38:06.489 institutional frameworks in the late 1990s. I 00:38:06.489 --> 00:38:08.389 never thought I'd live to see the day, but I 00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:12.170 have. And it's just so rewarding to see. And 00:38:12.170 --> 00:38:15.710 the many people who have contributed to that. 00:38:15.949 --> 00:38:20.969 You know, people are looking for something in 00:38:20.969 --> 00:38:24.239 their work that they can feel good about. that 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.900 they see progress being made. And I can say that 00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:31.519 the Fiscal Management Act institution attracted 00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:35.159 a lot of professional Indigenous people to be 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.659 in a position to be able to help communities. 00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:40.960 And it's the sharing of this knowledge and this 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.659 capacity throughout the country that these institutions 00:38:44.659 --> 00:38:48.139 create the opportunity for that is also so very 00:38:48.139 --> 00:38:51.619 rewarding to those communities and to our employees. 00:38:52.329 --> 00:38:54.309 You know, we've been up to a community called 00:38:54.309 --> 00:38:57.110 Ottawapiskat and the James Bay that has been 00:38:57.110 --> 00:38:59.650 in the news nationally and internationally with 00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:03.050 communities living in desperate poverty. And 00:39:03.050 --> 00:39:05.889 we've created opportunities for them and supported 00:39:05.889 --> 00:39:09.130 them by being present and developing systems 00:39:09.130 --> 00:39:12.050 that now permits them. to borrow from the First 00:39:12.050 --> 00:39:14.150 Nation Finance Authority is an example to do 00:39:14.150 --> 00:39:16.369 things. We're moving forward with initiatives 00:39:16.369 --> 00:39:19.030 like the monetization of federal capital transfers 00:39:19.030 --> 00:39:22.190 to allow for the $500 million in infrastructure 00:39:22.190 --> 00:39:25.070 that they need to be secured through a 10 -year 00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:27.750 grant and then taken to the First Nation Finance 00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:30.230 Authority and monetized through that so that 00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:32.969 you can build it sooner and not let inflation 00:39:32.969 --> 00:39:36.809 take half of the value that you can create. It's 00:39:36.809 --> 00:39:39.710 those kinds of initiatives that I think are in 00:39:39.710 --> 00:39:42.510 the forefront that interest not only First Nations 00:39:42.510 --> 00:39:44.929 in Canada, governments in Canada, and the political 00:39:44.929 --> 00:39:48.250 parties in Canada, but around the world. You 00:39:48.250 --> 00:39:51.670 know, for us, we've always maintained that Indigenous 00:39:51.670 --> 00:39:55.170 issues should not be partisan issues. This is 00:39:55.170 --> 00:39:58.610 an issue that Canada and the Crown has a responsibility 00:39:58.610 --> 00:40:02.570 to undertake, and we're there to help them undertake 00:40:02.570 --> 00:40:06.829 that. Yes. And Harold, just... hearing you speak 00:40:06.829 --> 00:40:09.789 as a non -indigenous person these are great canadian 00:40:09.789 --> 00:40:13.170 stories and yourself and others you've mentioned 00:40:13.170 --> 00:40:15.630 are great canadian heroes because they're just 00:40:15.630 --> 00:40:18.210 making canada a better place to live and anybody 00:40:18.210 --> 00:40:22.030 who would hear their leaders talk about doing 00:40:22.030 --> 00:40:24.349 that in their community that's what everybody 00:40:24.349 --> 00:40:27.489 wants so i will tell you that i've offered to 00:40:27.489 --> 00:40:29.449 certify the federal government but i haven't 00:40:29.449 --> 00:40:32.809 there's a lot of people who want that that's 00:40:32.809 --> 00:40:35.719 for sure that's for sure But that is absolutely 00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:39.840 fantastic, Rob. Yeah, I'm looking forward to 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.860 welcoming you to London. Yeah, I'm looking forward 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:48.179 to coming again. I think the free world outside 00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:50.920 of the United States is in the midst of creating 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:56.239 a new order. And London is going to be a key 00:40:56.239 --> 00:41:01.760 factor in how that gets created. And I think 00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:04.789 what I want... Everyone in London to understand 00:41:04.789 --> 00:41:08.809 is Canada is going to be a safe place to do business. 00:41:08.969 --> 00:41:11.570 It's going to be a safe place to invest. It's 00:41:11.570 --> 00:41:15.030 going to be a safe place to source your supply 00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:19.389 chain needs into the future. And we look forward 00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:23.210 to that working relationship. Well said. And 00:41:23.210 --> 00:41:26.570 thanks again for your time, Harold. Okay. Take 00:41:26.570 --> 00:41:30.440 care. Wonderful to have you with us, Harold. 00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:33.960 My pleasure. And thank you for your kind words. 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:39.460 But, you know, there are hundreds, if not thousands 00:41:39.460 --> 00:41:43.260 of people, leaders and communities who have got 00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:46.559 us to this point. Some of us just happen to be 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.400 the spokespeople for all of those hardworking 00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:53.519 people. Absolutely. Thank you. Have a great day. 00:41:54.739 --> 00:41:57.179 Thank you to Harold Calla for sharing his insights 00:41:57.179 --> 00:41:59.679 with us. And thank you for viewing and listening. 00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:02.519 Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review 00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.539 on your favorite podcast channel. Mark your calendars 00:42:05.539 --> 00:42:07.980 for the upcoming 2025 Summit taking place on 00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:10.679 the 10th of April. Thanks for listening to Drum 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.219 Beats. Until next time.