Welcome to Drumbeats, the must -listen -to podcast
which explains why Indigenous partnerships are
the key to securing successful outcomes in natural
resource and infrastructure investment in Canada.
I'm Mark McNack and my co -host Robert Brant
and I are joined today by Harold Calla, Executive
Chair of the First Nations Financial Management
Board. With an impressive background in international
business, he discusses how FNB works to strengthen
the financial capacity of First Nations. helping
them navigate the complexities of capital markets
and secure the funding necessary to advance their
economic goals. Harold Kalak, the Executive Director
of the First Nations Financial Management Board,
welcome to the Drumbeats podcast. Thank you very
much for having me. Welcome, Harold. Great to
have you with us today. Thanks for taking time,
Harold. I'd like to start by asking you a bit
about your... personal background, where you're
from and how you ended up where you are today?
Well, I've asked myself that question, how I
ended up here. I'm a member of the Squamish First
Nation in Vancouver, British Columbia, and then
around Vancouver, British Columbia. I'm a FCPA,
an accountant, and I grew up in a family business.
My father suggested that I stop pouring concrete,
which is what our business was in, and go and
do something more meaningful. He felt it was
more meaningful, and I became an accountant in
1977. I spent most of my career in accounting
working in the private sector with various companies
as CFOs and came back to my community to work
at their request in 1987 to begin to deal with
the emerging... economy that the Squamish nation
was building in downtown Vancouver. I did everything
at the Squamish nation except social services,
I think. I started out as CFO and moved into
treaty negotiations and to, I think, looking
at opportunities. It became very apparent that
we could not achieve success until we were able
to move out of some sections of the Indian Act.
And that began a process of 20 years and four
different pieces of legislation that allows First
Nations on an optional basis to opt into alternatives
to the Indian Act, mainly in the areas of lands
and resources and economic development. And that's
what I was sent away by my Squamish Council at
the time that I was there to help create. The
main one, of course, that we're talking about
today is the First Nations Fiscal Management
Act that helped create the First Nations Financial
Management Board, the First Nations Finance Authority,
and the First Nations Tax Commission. And these
were areas that Squamish, as well as a number
of other First Nations in the country, felt we
needed to have some changes in the relationship
with Canada around so that we could better...
engage in economic development on our own terms.
The Financial Management Board built administrative
and financial capacity in First Nation communities
that they might not otherwise have. The First
Nation Tax Commission supports First Nation and
the exercise of fiscal powers that were gained
through the legislation. And the First Nation
Finance Authority emulates the BC Municipal Finance
Authority in a pool borrowing environment. that
allows for First Nations anywhere in Canada to
access dementia financing to the financial authority
on rates and terms similar to the province of
Ontario. It's a real achievement. We now have,
of the 579 Indian Act bans, we have over 380
who have opted into this legislation. They are
collecting over $100 million a year now in revenues.
And the finance authority, on request from First
Nations, have accessed $3 billion, in excess
of $3 billion in debt financing for them to meet
their needs. So it's been a journey as we move
towards gaining recognition of our inherent right
to self -government in many different ways. But
we very quickly realized that we needed to be
able to demonstrate accountability and transparency,
and we need to build. capacity in First Nation
communities, many of whom would only be familiar
with the responsibilities related to monitoring
the contribution agreements that they would receive
from the federal government to deliver programs
and services. Obviously, things have moved much
beyond that now, moved into the mainstream of
the economy, and we now need to be in a position
where we can bridge almost 200 years of exclusion
by bringing an awareness and capacity to First
Nations so they can sit across the table as legitimate
and equal partners with those they want to deal
with. Yeah, there's a lot there, and that's quite
a triumvirate of organizations that spawned out
of the fiscal management. Yes, we have the major
one that we're proud of is the First Nation Major
Projects Coalition. Because what was happening
in British Columbia in the late, around 2008
to 2012, is there was a lot of talk of natural
resource development. And the requirements for
consultation and accommodation that came from
the Supreme Court of Canada saw referral letters
going to many First Nations who did not have
the confidence, the exposure, the experience
to deal with multi -billion dollar projects.
And we needed to create critical mass and an
ability to provide the administrative support
that those groups needed to make free prior informed
consent decisions. And I think it's been invaluable.
There are now over 180 communities across the
country, mainly in the northern resource -rich
areas, who are participating in securing that
kind of support. And just with a lot of these
organizations and communities you've talked about,
B .C., I think the reason there's so much of
this going on in B .C. is because most of the
land is not covered by a treaty. Is that correct?
That's true. That's very true. But so, you know,
we were kind of on the leading edge of this.
But I think that it's not the impact of Indigenous
rights and title are not restricted to those
who have or don't have treaties. Those who have
treaties still are. required to be consulted
and accommodated. And it's more where we start
from in terms of what the legal arguments might
be. But I think Canada has recognized the duty
is there to respond to the duty to consult and
accommodate, according to the UN declaration,
the UNDRIPA action plan by Canada itself. And
it's really producing results as a result of
the activities that have taken place. And over
the last two or three years, I know that on one
of my first trips to London was with Minister
Wilkinson to speak to the capital markets about
investing in Canada. And so the pace has really
picked up in this country. The federal government
has responded in ways that Minister Wilkinson
said they would. And that in one of the recent
budgets, they provided for a $5 billion loan
guarantee to support Indigenous participation.
and major resource developments. So it's a very
quickly moving target, and particularly now that
there's a significant focus on how we should
respond to the election of Mr. Trump in the United
States and all of the activities that are related
to that. Yes. Yeah, we'll get on to that. And
if I'm simplifying, FMB would help prepare First
Nations. for the fiscal responsibilities that
come with borrowing money, investing, taking
equity stakes, managing money. The financial
authority would assist in raising the funds necessary
to deliver projects and other transactions. And
the major projects coalition would assist in
actually moving projects from start to completion.
Yeah, you've nailed it. I think one of the Things
that it was important to understand particularly
in the early years, if you have no experience
or exposure to the kinds of economic activities
that are now present, and you've only dealt with
the management of program funding, it's very
intimidating to be thrust into the limelight
of trying to consider the implications of investing
in a $40 or $50 billion project as these First
Nations were in 2008 to 2012. And the outcome
of that was fear and apprehension and an unwillingness
to make a mistake caused there to be a pause
in any kind of activity that was contemplated.
And as a result of that, the natural gas activities
that were contemplated during that period, which
the then premier indicated were worth $40 billion,
passed us by. First Nations weren't actively
involved. in a way that saw final investment
decisions made on many of these projects. They're
starting to now. But I think what we're seeing
now is a recognition on the part of everybody
that First Nation participation in the assessment
and approval processes is important in ensuring
that the economic benefits package that is negotiated
is reflected in those agreements. And that is,
I think, our greatest hope at the moment is to
expedite those processes so that the other regulatory
processes that seem to be an impediment to getting
to final investment decisions are being refined
in this country. Absolutely. There is a recognition,
I think, amongst business and government now
that if you're going to get projects or other
transactions completed, you're going to have
to involve. in a meaningful way, Indigenous First
Nations communities. No better way to demonstrate
proper consultation than to have a First Nation
take an equity stake in a project and be a real
partner with risk and responsibilities and a
seat at the board table. You've been around FMV
since its inception. Can you give us some examples
of the success stories or some of the files that
you're most proud of? Well, I think what we're
most proud of is the fact that we are being successful
in achieving some confidence in First Nation
communities in themselves by virtue of them having
a better understanding of how to engage, how
to measure risk, and how to negotiate and participate
in discussions with the private sector. The big
successes, of course, that have been profiled
are The Clearwater transaction that the Big Maw
Nations and Atlantic Canada undertook to reach
an agreement to have a 50 % interest in a billion
-dollar company called Clearwater Seafoods. That
has led to this group acquiring the largest shipyards
in Atlantic Canada to be able to look at being
part of their own economic activity and fleet
renewal. So I think those are tremendous successes
that show that when you have access to capital
at reasonable rates and terms, it just snowballs.
One thing leads to another. You start to achieve
economies of scale, and that moves forward. So
I think that's been a tremendous success. The
province of Ontario, in looking at transmission
lines, engaged in a partnership with First Nations.
That's been another tremendous success in terms
of both provincial and federal governments getting
on side and recognizing the opportunities there
and getting First Nations to appreciate that
they can achieve some of their objectives through
these kinds of partnerships. That's another tremendous
success. The Heisler First Nation and the Cedar
LNG project is another huge success, where now
the First Nation itself will own the... largest
natural gas plant, production plant in the world,
quite frankly, at the moment. And again, through
their chief just acknowledged at an AFN meeting
in Vancouver that without the First Nation Fiscal
Management Act institutions, they might not have
been down this path and able to do what they've
done. So those are really significant successes
in terms of what we've achieved. But there are,
you know, communities like Fisher River Cree
Nation of Manitoba that have developed kind of
like a micro economy within their own region.
So they now have invested in the development
of the infrastructure and businesses to provide
materials and supplies to the region as a result
of gaining some confidence and moving into business.
I think more importantly. Communities are now
recognizing that there are rights and obligations
to the government of Canada that eventually they'll
come to terms with. But in the meantime, they
have needs in their community. And they need
to be in a position where economic opportunity
doesn't pass them by, that they are engaging
and developing in those things. So it's not just
at the macro level. It's also at the micro level
that we're having a tremendous impact. And as
you all well know, many micro are economies generally.
are resourced by the many micro kinds of activities
that are involved. And I think this is helping
First Nations become more self -reliant, develop
unemployment, and reduce the impacts of the cost
of poverty. Maybe we can talk about some specific
initiatives. I know the FMB commented on the
BC government's action plan for the province.
You advocated for a stronger connection between
social and economic aspects. of the plan to empower
First Nations in their pursuit of self -governance?
Yeah, I think, you know, often policy statements
are made and initiatives are undertaken. And
then we think that we're done. We don't measure
the success, failure, or the impacts of these
kinds of initiatives. And I think many of the
efforts around UNDRIP And in particular, BC's
action plan, in our view, did not provide a meaningful
insight into the success and impacts that their
policies were going to have on indigenous people
or laying out the requirements. You know, I was
at an event last Friday when the premier. released
to the Vancouver Board of Trade comments regarding
the budget that they had just released. And one
of the interesting comments that he made regarding
their desire to see an expansion of LNG sales
abroad was that they were not abounding the principle
of indigenous economic inclusion and equity.
And I think that was a very significant move
forward by the provincial government to continue
to respect that the action plan does require
things to be actually visible and done on the
ground. And I think that was the concern that
we had. We also looked to the opportunity for
better inclusion of First Nation peoples in the
various sectors within government and within
the private sector itself. We don't have the
opportunity to spend 200 years to evolve. Canada
and the world needs us to step forward in a much...
more quick fashion. And in order to do that,
we need to benefit from the exposure and experience
that is elsewhere. And we need to be brought
in and we need to be a part of the processes
that are being followed elsewhere and to be in
a position where we can bring that experience
and exposure back to our communities to facilitate
our communities dealing with the matters that
are before them around economic development.
So, Harold, I think that's such a critical statement
you need that Canada and the world can't wait.
Yes. Right? And I think all this is coming together
with the First Nations authorities that were
set up a number of years ago because now we're
in a completely changed environment in Canada.
And for the first time in 200 years, the indigenous
people have a leadership role to play in shaping
the country that we all live in together now.
uh canada where as if this crisis had happened
50 years ago there wouldn't be that voice and
we wouldn't move the country forward in a way
that benefits all the people who live there and
of course the indigenous people have been there
for millennia so i i think that's important and
is a differentiator for canada about who we are
as a people and as a nation well i couldn't agree
more and I was fortunate enough to be invited
by the government candidate to sit on the board
of Trans Mountain and the pipeline expansion.
That initiative got mired in almost a couple
of decades of approval processes. And it wasn't
until there was an enlightened attitude by the
Trans Mountain Corporation itself that it needed
to get First Nation consideration and approvals
to the extent that it can. or could. And as a
result, they went out and got almost 60 communities
along the pipeline route to be part of an initiative
to help build the pipeline. It resulted in almost
$6 .5 billion worth of projects during the construction
period being provided to First Nation. Companies
or joint ventures. 11 % of the workforce was
Indigenous that peaked at 7 ,700 people. There
was about $600 million in impact benefit agreements.
And now we're starting to talk about an equity
position in First Nations. And I think that as
Canada, in the face of the current circumstances,
is now starting to talk about more pipelines
and more capacity to export its fossil fuel resources,
this is a model that I think will facilitate
the kind of conversations. that need to take
place that will expedite the approval processes.
You know, there's a lot more involved in reforming
the regulatory process than just the Indigenous
issues, for sure. But I think having the Indigenous
issues on side and supportive will help facilitate
those regulatory processes. I think I'm also
observing that there is an interest in the international
capital markets to see that countries like Canada,
who adopt a plan to implement UNDRIP to measure
how they're doing, how they're moving towards
net zero. And I think, again, engaging with First
Nations is a way in which these activities can
be seen by the investment community as viable.
Harold, our international listeners might be
interested in the status of any potential sale
of... the Trans Mountain pipeline. What can you
tell us about? Well, I can tell you that the
government maintains its interest to return the
company to the private sector. I think it is
prudently doing so in a way that the value that
has been created is realized in the sale. So
there's no change. In that perspective, I guess,
and that's been made clear. We're at a point
in time where the project commenced operations
in December. Many of those around who have been
involved in these kinds of initiatives and startups
were absolutely amazed at how flawless the startup
of this operation was. And it's achieving great
success. The turmoil that is in place at the
moment around the world on many different fronts
is, I think, putting pressure on the creation
of external markets. And as users of fossil fuels
and other energy sources are starting to scramble
to find alternatives, I would like to say that
You know, where people wondered if and why the
Trans Mountain Pipeline was being built, that
is no longer a question, given events of the
last couple of months. So, you know, and the
question is, how do we look at expanding the
ability to access the international markets?
We can get to Asia from the West Coast, but get
to India and Pakistan, we need to go to the East
Coast. So those kinds of conversations, I'm sure.
are going to take place over the next little
while. So I think there's going to be tremendous
investment opportunities in Canada over the next
five to 10 years in some of these major initiatives.
Are you noticing a different approach from your
members of the FMB because of the turmoil the
last couple of months? Absolutely. I had the
pleasure of presenting. at the Assembly of First
Nations meeting in Vancouver. And the Assembly
of First Nations is a national political body
of First Nations. And they had an UNDRIP session
where they talked about UNDRIP and the implementation
and couldn't help but talk about the effects
of Trump. And FMB hosted a side event talking
about UNDRIP. and economic reconciliation. There
was standing room only in the event. And we had
Crystal Smith from Haisla stand up and give a
testimonial about how the Cedar LNG project benefited
from the support of the FMA institutions. You
can't ask for a better PR program. initiative
than that. And I think you're going to be hearing
from member two in London regarding the work
that was done with the financial institutions
in their acquisition of Clearwater Seafood. So
I think there's an interest. I think there's
an apprehension in the First Nation communities
about any potential that there being the influence
of others to create. a 51st state in Canada.
Our whole system is based upon the historical
creation of this federation, and Indigenous relationships
would have to take a 180, and who knows where
they'll end up. I can't believe there's any desire
on the part of First Nation communities to see
the Indigenous file handed over to Washington,
D .C. I was at an event for the Aboriginal Financial
Officers Association in Halifax in the last month.
And the chief of RAMA came up and talked to me
and said he had just come home from the States.
And he was playing golf. And the people he was
golfing with asked what he thought of Mr. Trump's
suggestion. And he said, I had to think for a
minute. And he said, well, I'll tell you this.
They stole my land once. I haven't dealt with
them yet. So let's wait for that to get resolved
before we have to deal with Mr. Trump. Chief
Ted Williams. Yes, we had Chief Ted Williams
on a podcast recently as we did Chief Crystal
Smith. So all these names and individuals you
talk about, I mean, this is really how it's working
in Canada today. But you've mentioned in the
past that you've, of course. been exposed and
worked with the international capital markets.
What is the perception of Canada when you're
talking to them and the additional perception
of the role of Indigenous peoples now of those
conversations? Well, I think there's not a good
comprehension about the legal framework that
exists in Canada. And, you know, not to go in
a protracted history lesson, but you have to
go back to the Royal Proclamation. you know,
of 1763. And that lays out some of the concepts
that preserve the existence of Aboriginal rights
and title and the need to engage with them. So
not many in the international community understand
that. And many of the regions where we have relationships
with Indigenous communities are places like Australia,
New Zealand. Finland and even the United States
don't understand the legal basis for the requirement
to engage with Indigenous people. They also haven't
understood how we were marginalized historically
and why we find ourselves in a position of extreme
poverty, of no significant economic development
opportunity or emerging economic development
opportunity. Within Canada, I consider First
Nations. are emerging third world economies.
And that may sound strange to some, but that's
in fact what we are. And I think once people
realize that and they realize that the governments
have moved to take some action, the creation
of the legislative frameworks that I've spoken
of have been major steps forward. The seeding
of some fiscal room has been a major step forward
and the exercise of self -government. More conversations
are taking place within Canada on that. I think
that the international community is pleased to
see the government is stepping in and not expecting
the private sector to pay for the price for non
-indigenous inclusion in the economy, that the
government in Canada will step up and do that,
and that it should not be an added burden to
the cost of... developing a project or the returns
on the project, what they have to be willing
with is to share in that. And it's the same old
story. Do you want 100 % of nothing or a percentage
of something? And I think what we're looking
at here is a percentage of something that's reflective
of the contributions that each are making to
the creation of these opportunities. It's no
secret that The strategic metals are very much
in the forefront of these conversations around
the world, quite frankly. I mean, for those of
us who are here in Canada, you look at what Trump
is saying about Greenland, about Iceland, about
the Arctic and about Canada. It's all about getting
access to the resources. And I think that people
are now recognizing that in order to. quickly
get access to those resources so we can develop
independent supply and have more secure economies
that we need to include in business people and
we need to do it in a timely way. We can't find
ourselves going back to the courts, to the Supreme
Court of Canada to try to make some of these
decisions. It is high time for there to be leadership,
political leadership that recognizes these things
and embraces the concepts that are being put
forward. for inclusion and meaningful economic
participation. I think if we do those things
and the international community sees that there
is a much clearer path to a final investment
decision, they will welcome the opportunity to
invest in Canada. Thank you. Really well articulated
for our listeners, particularly here in the city.
But in terms of, I think this is my perspective.
I think now that Canada is addressing these issues,
it actually puts us ahead of other places that
haven't resolved these Indigenous issues, that
don't have some of those underlying treaties.
Whereas at the moment, it might seem, oh, well,
it's easy to get things done there. But there
will be a price to pay that gets bigger every
day that it's not done. And I think your comment
about underdeveloped communities in Canada, that
holds the whole country back. Right. Rather,
there is we understand why. But by addressing
them, as you said, that uplifts the whole country.
And that just feeds growth across all of Canada
for everyone. Well, I've just reviewed an op
ed piece that's going to be released soon about
Canada's sovereignty and the impact of the indigenous
economy, how intertwined those are. I think that
it's absolutely essential. The Canadians understand
that indigenous economic development is in all
Canadians' interests. It's in the world's interest
that Canada is able to bring to like -minded
First Nations the resources that Canada has to
offer to stabilize those economies. We're part
of a solution. We're not part of a problem. And
I think that the more people... begin to appreciate
that there are pathways to achieve those outcomes,
the more comfortable they are in that kind of
notion. We complain a lot about Canada sometimes,
but I tell you, I travel around the world and
speak to indigenous communities, and I come back
to Canada appreciating how far we've come and
how far Canada has come. I was just in Finland
with Minister Hajdu meeting with the Finnish
government and the Sami people. And they're now
starting to look at what we do and how we do
it. I'm going back to Australia for the fourth
time in May, again, to speak to their government
officials about how you involve Indigenous people
in the economy. Because what's happening throughout
the world, Indigenous communities are beginning
to migrate, if they're not already, into the
cities. So you're dealing with the consequences
of that. And the challenges around poverty and
other issues that that creates. So we need to
be in a position where we're starting to address
those issues globally. And a lot of people are
looking, a lot of countries, New Zealand, the
United States, Australia, Finland, are looking
at what Canada has done and how the First Nations
in Canada have responded to the opportunities
that are before them. When you go to a political
meeting now in Canada, we're never abandoning
Aboriginal and Haitian title. But often the topic
about economic development is the first topic
that's raised. We're tired of waiting for somebody
to take care of us. We're prepared to take care
of ourselves as long as we're given the tools
that others are able to have. And as long as
there isn't an expectation. That we're all going
to agree. I'm always humored by the fact that
everybody wants unanimous consensus from the
Indigenous community. And I've asked myself and
parliamentary committees, quite frankly, why
that expectation is put on us when you can't
do that yourself. So there will be a majority
kind of decision moving forward. We don't want
to force the kind of things that we talk about
on anybody. But what we see. As those of us who
are involved with the communities who are our
clients, as they move through our processes,
their well -being index improves, their own source
revenue improves, the employment opportunities
improve. Everything gets better in those communities.
And it's not just because of us. It's because
of those communities having the confidence to
make the decisions that they need to make. And
sometimes those are hard decisions that they
have to make. But they see a path forward and
they see through the institutions the kind of
technical support and administrative support
that they need to be able to demonstrate that
their goals and objectives are achievable. Harold,
you've seen the evolution in Canada and in Indigenous
participation over the years. You've put in a
lot of time. There are other things you could
be doing. at this stage of your career, but you
keep going. What excites you? What's coming next
that keeps you coming in to the office every
day? Well, I thought I was retiring in December.
My governor and council appointment ended, but
they seemed to want me for another three years.
And I accepted because I see opportunity. I said
to them, I'm prepared to if we're doing something.
If this is just managing the status quo, I'm
gone. And so what does that mean? That means
we need, in this country, improved access to
capital, improved capacity development funding
into our First Nation communities, the development
of additional institutions to be able to support
the development of real self -government in this
country, to be able to devolve the Department
of Indigenous Services Canada. into First Nation
institutions and organizations. There is going
to be a third order of government in this country,
and people don't need to be afraid of it. It'll
be more effective than the present system of
delivery through a federal government transfer.
We've seen examples of it through initiatives
like the First Nation Health Authority in British
Columbia. We've taken over all of that from the
provincial government, funded by the federal
government, and we're delivering better results
and better outcomes as a result of it. We're
able to have the flexibility in designing programs
that meet our services and obligations. And so
I think that's what excites me. From the Financial
Management Board's perspective, you need to have
the accountability and transparency, not only
to those who provide revenues to First Nations.
but to our citizens that we have the ability
to undertake these kinds of initiatives. And
I think that's what excites me. More and more
First Nations are understanding the value of
good financial management and certification.
We're starting to understand the implications
of the economic activities that we're undertaking
around the reporting in the BAN's financial statements
about general... government business enterprises
and nonprofits. We're moving from a very rudimentary
economics and financial system to one in the
21st century, and we're going to have to do it
in less than 20 years. So old guys like me need
to stay around and offer some thoughts. I'm glad
to hear that you are sticking around, Harold,
and I want to, on behalf of all First Nations
communities, want to thank you for your service
over the years and the part that you've played.
and making some of those things that we've discussed
come to fruition. Well, a lot of people have
contributed to that. We sometimes are seen as
the figureheads, but it is the Crystal Smiths
of the world. That's what brings me to work every
day. It is seeing her success as an individual
and gaining the confidence and the capacity to
do what she's doing with the support of the institutions.
And seeing the need for that. That was our dream
when we started talking about creating these
institutional frameworks in the late 1990s. I
never thought I'd live to see the day, but I
have. And it's just so rewarding to see. And
the many people who have contributed to that.
You know, people are looking for something in
their work that they can feel good about. that
they see progress being made. And I can say that
the Fiscal Management Act institution attracted
a lot of professional Indigenous people to be
in a position to be able to help communities.
And it's the sharing of this knowledge and this
capacity throughout the country that these institutions
create the opportunity for that is also so very
rewarding to those communities and to our employees.
You know, we've been up to a community called
Ottawapiskat and the James Bay that has been
in the news nationally and internationally with
communities living in desperate poverty. And
we've created opportunities for them and supported
them by being present and developing systems
that now permits them. to borrow from the First
Nation Finance Authority is an example to do
things. We're moving forward with initiatives
like the monetization of federal capital transfers
to allow for the $500 million in infrastructure
that they need to be secured through a 10 -year
grant and then taken to the First Nation Finance
Authority and monetized through that so that
you can build it sooner and not let inflation
take half of the value that you can create. It's
those kinds of initiatives that I think are in
the forefront that interest not only First Nations
in Canada, governments in Canada, and the political
parties in Canada, but around the world. You
know, for us, we've always maintained that Indigenous
issues should not be partisan issues. This is
an issue that Canada and the Crown has a responsibility
to undertake, and we're there to help them undertake
that. Yes. And Harold, just... hearing you speak
as a non -indigenous person these are great canadian
stories and yourself and others you've mentioned
are great canadian heroes because they're just
making canada a better place to live and anybody
who would hear their leaders talk about doing
that in their community that's what everybody
wants so i will tell you that i've offered to
certify the federal government but i haven't
there's a lot of people who want that that's
for sure that's for sure But that is absolutely
fantastic, Rob. Yeah, I'm looking forward to
welcoming you to London. Yeah, I'm looking forward
to coming again. I think the free world outside
of the United States is in the midst of creating
a new order. And London is going to be a key
factor in how that gets created. And I think
what I want... Everyone in London to understand
is Canada is going to be a safe place to do business.
It's going to be a safe place to invest. It's
going to be a safe place to source your supply
chain needs into the future. And we look forward
to that working relationship. Well said. And
thanks again for your time, Harold. Okay. Take
care. Wonderful to have you with us, Harold.
My pleasure. And thank you for your kind words.
But, you know, there are hundreds, if not thousands
of people, leaders and communities who have got
us to this point. Some of us just happen to be
the spokespeople for all of those hardworking
people. Absolutely. Thank you. Have a great day.
Thank you to Harold Calla for sharing his insights
with us. And thank you for viewing and listening.
Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review
on your favorite podcast channel. Mark your calendars
for the upcoming 2025 Summit taking place on
the 10th of April. Thanks for listening to Drum
Beats. Until next time.