1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,680 Welcome to Drum Beats, the must listen to podcast, which explains why Indigenous partnerships 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,720 are the key to securing successful outcomes in natural resource and infrastructure investment 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:11,720 in Canada. 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,080 I'm Mark McNacca and my co-host Robert Brant and I are joined today by Matt Smith, a proud 5 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:22,200 member of the Métis Nation Saskatchewan and Chief Executive Officer of the Saskatchewan 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,920 Indigenous Investment Finance Corporation. 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,380 He leads efforts to strengthen investment in his province by working with Indigenous 8 00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:32,760 nations to ensure lasting long-term economic development and growth. 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,280 We'll cover how CFSI is tackling the challenges of accessing capital, including the rationale 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,040 behind the benefits of their own guarantee program. 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,720 Matt Smith, Chief Executive Officer of the Saskatchewan Indigenous Investment Finance 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:47,720 Corporation. 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:48,720 Welcome to Drum Beats. 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,560 Great to have you with us. 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,560 Welcome to Drum Beats, Matt. 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,560 Thank you. 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,120 So really great to have you with us. 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,560 Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background, where you grew up before we get 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,440 into your current role? 20 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Yeah, absolutely. 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:09,000 So I am what we call a Ote Pimsoak, a citizen of the Métis Nation here in Saskatchewan. 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,280 For those that aren't aware, Métis are one of the three Indigenous groups in Canada, 23 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,840 along with the Inuit and First Nations. 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:25,080 The Métis people are really one of the earliest kind of citizens of Canada as settlers from 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:32,440 Europe came to Canada and moved into central and western Canada in the pursuit of fur trading 26 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,360 or other activities. 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:40,360 They kind of interspersed with the First Nations population, many of them taking what's kind 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,600 of called country wives. 29 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:49,160 The children of those relationships typically were raised by the First Nations mother and 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,240 over time became known as a distinct people, the Métis people. 31 00:01:53,240 --> 00:02:00,320 So really the Red River in Manitoba is regarded as kind of the birthplace and home of the 32 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Métis people. 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:10,200 So some of my family names are Mackenzie, Brabant, Delorme, Sayer, Crandell, and a few 34 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,200 others. 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:19,360 My family relocated from the Red River to Lebratton, Saskatchewan in the 1860s and stayed 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,440 there until around the 1880s where they were part of the families that were dispossessed 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,480 of their lands to make way for the Canadian rail lines. 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,840 My family stayed in the area but moved around a little bit in the Corpel Valley. 39 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:37,240 And then my grandfather, Toby Mackenzie, was a World War I veteran and shortly after the 40 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,440 war relocated to Regina, which is where our family has been since. 41 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,480 So I was born and raised here. 42 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,280 I lived in Regina until I was 21, at which time I saw a little bit of adventure. 43 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:55,000 And looked to go to do some backpacking in Europe and arrived in London with about 140 44 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,640 pounds to my name and needed to get a job right away. 45 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:04,800 I actually ended up calling England home for the next 13 years and did a fair bit of traveling 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:05,800 during that time. 47 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,120 But certainly I really enjoyed my time in England. 48 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,960 I returned to Canada in 2012 with the plans of staying here for a couple of years. 49 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,800 Got a job with the government of Saskatchewan in the international relations area, which 50 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,520 I really enjoyed. 51 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:28,800 And then around 2018, an opportunity to join a group of really smart, passionate, Indigenous-led 52 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,080 people in Indigenous economic development here in government of Saskatchewan came open. 53 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,960 And I absolutely left at the chance and have been loving every minute since. 54 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:44,040 Matt, I'd help with noting that, especially our international investors or listeners, 55 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,040 there is Saskatchewan and Manitoba. 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,040 Sure. 57 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:55,200 So Saskatchewan, as we say, is hard to pronounce, easy to draw. 58 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:00,920 So if you look at Canada and Hudson's Bay, Manitoba and Northwest Territories kind of 59 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,360 touch onto the Hudson's Bay there. 60 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,240 And then Saskatchewan is the next province west of Manitoba. 61 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,480 And if you see it on a map, it's a slightly kind of oblong rectangle. 62 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,480 So it's a large province geographically, but we have a population of, I think, around 1.1, 63 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:17,720 1.2 million people. 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:24,320 So not a huge population density, but a lot of really great people here in the province. 65 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:31,160 So there's a bit of a history with Saskatchewan too, because I think it was Sitting Bull who 66 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:36,320 came up to be protected by the Great White Mother. 67 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,480 But even him and his people found it was too cold in the winter. 68 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,480 And I think you mentioned earlier when we're talking that it was minus 40 something last 69 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,200 week, but it's warming up, so it's minus 20. 70 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:52,200 So yeah, it's our interpretation of the weather could be different than some other parts of 71 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,200 the world. 72 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,920 And we really do get both extremes here. 73 00:04:54,920 --> 00:05:01,240 So it can get down to minus 40, minus 50 in the winter, but get up into the high 30s, 74 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,780 and even pretty close to 40 in the summer. 75 00:05:03,780 --> 00:05:10,160 So we do get the best or worst of both, but it's just really a fantastic place to live 76 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,040 and raise a family and really blessed with an abundance of resources, which I think we'll 77 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 talk about it as we chat here today. 78 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:23,760 Yeah, the province itself, give us an idea of the size and scale of that compared to, 79 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,780 say, the United Kingdom. 80 00:05:25,780 --> 00:05:34,800 And I think of Saskatchewan and the agricultural sector and prairies, but it's much more than 81 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,280 that, isn't it? 82 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:43,200 Yeah, so I mean, geographically, Saskatchewan is just a little under three times the size 83 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,200 of the entire United Kingdom. 84 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,800 The bottom third of the province is very agricultural. 85 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Saskatchewan's home to 40% of all farmland in Canada. 86 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,160 There's a lot of powdash mining, also some helium, and other kind of mining opportunities 87 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,200 in the south of the province and in the north. 88 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:08,720 Our top two thirds is covered by forest, roughly about the same size as Germany. 89 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,280 And that's where all the uranium mining is done. 90 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,960 Certainly all the critical mineral and rare earth element exploration is happening. 91 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,180 And so really, it is a very diverse province, but very large for sure. 92 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:24,200 Should we get into, Mitch stood in the education too. 93 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:30,000 You came over to Oxford and what attracted you other than the fact that it's a fantastic 94 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,000 school? 95 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:36,680 Yeah, so as I said, I consider myself to be based in the UK. 96 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,280 And after I finished my undergrad, I decided I wanted to do a master's degree. 97 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:44,440 I actually only applied to two schools, one being Oxford and the other being the London 98 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,440 School of Economics. 99 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,440 I was fortunately accepted to both. 100 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,920 And Oxford, to me at that time, and certainly the advice I provide people now is you can't 101 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:54,920 say no to it. 102 00:06:54,920 --> 00:07:00,000 And it was such a, in addition to kind of the actual education, the experience of being 103 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:09,200 there and just the huge change in ceremony and structure and whatever was a really great 104 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,200 experience. 105 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,640 And I absolutely loved the time I spent there as well. 106 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,640 That's fantastic. 107 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:19,480 And that education has prepared you well for the role you sit in today. 108 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,360 How did that all come about? 109 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,960 Through kind of a lot of my travels internationally. 110 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,160 So I've been fortunate to work and travel through, I mean, I think probably around 60 111 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,600 or 70 countries on six continents. 112 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:39,360 And what I saw and kind of learned at that time, it really inspired me when I returned 113 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,560 to school to kind of focus on development studies. 114 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,600 And that's where I focused a lot of my undergrad. 115 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,560 And then when it came time to do my master's and I was thinking about how I could make 116 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:55,680 a contribution, kind of that governance, diplomacy opportunities in that space really appealed 117 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:56,680 to me. 118 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,040 And again, Oxford with its reputation and the program it was offering was a really great 119 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,520 fit for me. 120 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,720 I'm sure just talking about this somebody yesterday, I mean, for Indigenous people, 121 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,480 you know, education really is the new buffalo. 122 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:16,120 And you know, it just puts you in such a stronger position to contribute and succeed as an Indigenous 123 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,120 person. 124 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,920 And all of that travel, what was it that took you to so many countries? 125 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,600 Well, there was a few that were kind of work related, but really, it was just a passion 126 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,000 of seeing the world and experiencing new and different things. 127 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,560 It's still a passion of mine with, you know, a career in a young family now, my opportunities 128 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:39,920 are much more restricted. 129 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,200 You know, last year, I was able to return and see some friends in the UK and go down 130 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,560 to Istanbul for a few days. 131 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:53,120 But apart from that, you know, I used to spend a year in Southeast Asia or, you know, four 132 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,880 or six months in Africa, four or six months in South America. 133 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,840 I lived and worked in Australia for a year. 134 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:05,400 And I think those days are gone, but just really a thirst for new experiences and learning 135 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,400 things. 136 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:11,080 And, you know, I feel completely honest when I say, you know, I learned as much traveling 137 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,680 as I did in my formal education and just how to interact with people and be respectful 138 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:16,840 of other cultures. 139 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:22,480 And yeah, it just it's really prepared me for success in a different way than my education, 140 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,480 I think. 141 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,800 Why don't you tell us a bit about your role as CEO of the SIIFC? 142 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,840 You've got your logo up in the background. 143 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:31,920 Sure. 144 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:39,000 So SIFSI, we kind of alternate between calling it SIFSI and SIFSI, but it kind of came about, 145 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,520 I would say the government of Saskatchewan recognized that, you know, existing barriers 146 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,680 to access to capital for Indigenous people in the province were really preventing them 147 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:54,280 from, you know, yielding the full benefits of some of the projects that were occurring 148 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,440 here in the province. 149 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:02,840 And so in about 2021, 2022, we began work on exploring what the opportunities were to 150 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,280 support increased access to capital for Indigenous communities in the province through kind of 151 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:16,560 some research and conversations and leadership from six Indigenous business leaders from 152 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,880 Saskatchewan who helped guide us through that process. 153 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,080 You know, we kind of identified the loan guarantees or loan guarantee program being probably the 154 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,160 best fit to help support that increased participation. 155 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,200 We received a lot of advice and support from our friends to the West in Alberta from the 156 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,440 Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation, who were really kind of the front runner in 157 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,400 the space, and Shannon and her team continue to be just really great, you know, mentors 158 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,520 and resources and supporters of us. 159 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,600 So we're very fortunate in that space. 160 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,880 So just as a bit of background, Indigenous people for, you know, a broad range of reasons, 161 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,300 but you know, particularly through the Indian Act and some other legislation aren't able 162 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:03,640 to, you know, utilize any of their kind of assets as collateral for investments. 163 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,080 And as a result, they've had challenges accessing capital or in instances where they can access 164 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,560 capital, the rates are really non-competitive and really impact the overall viability of 165 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:18,560 the investment or certainly drastically reduce the potential returns from those investment. 166 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:24,240 Loan guarantee from the government of Saskatchewan with the province's AA credit rating really 167 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,080 not only allows Indigenous communities to access capital, but really much more competitively 168 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,640 priced and, you know, competitive capital that helps more money go back to the community 169 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,320 for them to utilize, you know, in their priorities. 170 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:46,160 And I understand CFSI covers such sectors as critical minerals, RE processing, SMRs, 171 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,180 micro reactors and forestry. 172 00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:53,320 So quite a broad range and a lot of areas that aren't necessarily associated with Saskatchewan, 173 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,120 obviously with potash. 174 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,920 Yeah, absolutely. 175 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:03,280 So we cover all kind of opportunities within the natural resource space, value added to 176 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,320 agriculture, energy, renewable energy, and we also have kind of an associated infrastructure 177 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,920 category as well. 178 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,240 I think Saskatchewan, I mean, a number of people are aware of the province and what 179 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,560 we have to offer the world. 180 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:22,400 But as an example, you know, Saskatchewan is actually the largest miner and producer of 181 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,960 critical minerals in Canada. 182 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,480 In 2023, the province, you know, produced over $12 billion of critical minerals, the 183 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,080 majority of that being potash and uranium. 184 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,320 Helium is starting to come into that mix. 185 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:42,440 Saskatchewan is home to 27 of the 34 critical minerals identified by Canada. 186 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,120 And certainly the opportunities for Indigenous people in the province as a whole that those 187 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,400 will generate are absolutely enormous. 188 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:55,240 Saskatchewan is home to the only metals to mineral processing, rare earth element processing 189 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,520 facility in North America, which is really going to lay the foundation, we think, for 190 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:07,320 a strong supply chain as the minerals continue to be found and mined, produced in Saskatchewan. 191 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,200 Saskatchewan's also fully committed to the rollout of small modular reactors and micro 192 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,520 reactors, which is a really exciting new opportunity for Indigenous people. 193 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,920 And I think one of the first, if not the first sector where Indigenous people are going to 194 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,000 have the opportunity to participate in from the beginning. 195 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,160 And you know, that's estimated that as SMRs are deployed around the world, that by 2040, 196 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,540 that will be around $150 billion a sector. 197 00:13:32,540 --> 00:13:36,160 So a lot of excitement and opportunity there for sure. 198 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,600 What about on the SMRs? 199 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,640 Can you describe a bit more about what exactly is going on in Saskatchewan concerning SMRs? 200 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,200 Is it just uranium or they're actually being built there, assembled there? 201 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,000 I think all the big players are coming to talk to you. 202 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,080 Yeah, absolutely. 203 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:59,320 So Saskatchewan, you know, basically produces all of the uranium in Canada. 204 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,520 Canada is the world's number two producer of uranium. 205 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,880 So effectively Saskatchewan is the world's number two producer of uranium. 206 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,320 We have a number of new uranium projects coming online. 207 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:15,080 So we will definitely be a key component in the fuel supply chain, but additionally, businesses 208 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:20,000 in Saskatchewan and actually particularly Indigenous businesses are making acquisitions. 209 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,280 They're forming partnerships both in and outside the province to take advantage of those supply 210 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,460 chain opportunities. 211 00:14:25,460 --> 00:14:30,560 I think in Canada, like elsewhere, what exactly those opportunities are, are still kind of 212 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,560 being figured out. 213 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,860 But certainly there's a desire by Saskatchewan and Indigenous communities and businesses 214 00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:40,560 in Saskatchewan to be involved in absolutely every aspect of the development of SMRs, the 215 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,240 deployment, the fueling, the employment. 216 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,380 You know, it's just Saskatchewan's history, you know, in comfort with kind of uranium 217 00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,840 and whatnot is I think a bit unique. 218 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,840 And Indigenous communities are actually amongst those leading the way and supporting the rollout 219 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:57,840 of SMRs. 220 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:05,060 A few of those, including the Deseneti Group and Kitsaki Management Partnership, the Centre 221 00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:08,520 of Excellence, Saskatchewan First Nations Natural Resource Centre of Excellence are three of 222 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,680 the four groups in Saskatchewan that are really leading the charge of Indigenous participation 223 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:13,680 in SMRs. 224 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,400 The Metis Nations Saskatchewan is also a proponent of that and they'll all be actually in London 225 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,620 attending the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit and we're really excited to help them 226 00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:24,120 tell their story. 227 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,120 Absolutely. 228 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,960 And the organization, Matt, is relatively new. 229 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,620 2022 was it when it was established? 230 00:15:32,620 --> 00:15:35,400 So we began developing it in kind of 2022. 231 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,640 We officially launched in 2023. 232 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,720 It is a relatively new organization. 233 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,280 Certainly the uptake and interest has been very substantial. 234 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,200 I think we'll probably, you know, get into a bit more of an in-depth discussion later. 235 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:54,560 But you know, loan guarantee programs are incredibly, you know, useful beneficial tools 236 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,920 for Indigenous communities to utilize to invest in projects. 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,920 But given kind of the risk tolerance and some of the other restrictions we can talk about 238 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:08,840 later, you know, the types of projects that fit within kind of the mandate and the structure 239 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,160 can be quite limited. 240 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:16,560 And so, you know, we've had, you know, I would say in the area of kind of a billion dollars 241 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,800 with projects make their way through the application process, but the ones that actually fit within 242 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,560 the program are much fewer. 243 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:31,840 We officially announced an up to $100M loan guarantee for six nations. 244 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:37,100 Participate in what's called the Seven Stars Energy Project, 200 megawatt wind generation 245 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,680 facility in partnership with Enbridge. 246 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,780 Last year, the $100M is dependent partially on the nations having at least 30% equity 247 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:48,680 ownership in that project. 248 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,360 Actually just the six nations involved and certainly the Metis nation, Saskatchewan being 249 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,860 one of them, and there are over 40,000 citizens. 250 00:16:55,860 --> 00:17:03,240 You know, there's about 45 to 50,000 total Indigenous people will benefit from that project 251 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,240 which will generate revenue for those nations for 25 to 30 years, which is actually almost 252 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,400 25% of Saskatchewan's total Indigenous population will benefit just from that one project. 253 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,300 And we certainly are hopeful we'll have some more positive announcements in the next kind 254 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:23,680 of year or so that will bring more benefits to more nations here in Saskatchewan. 255 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,040 Just a bit of background for everyone is what percent of the population is Indigenous in 256 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,640 Saskatchewan? 257 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:36,960 So in Canada in general, I believe the population is about 5% in Saskatchewan. 258 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,660 According to the last census, it's about 17%. 259 00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:44,200 I expect by the next census and certainly by the end of the decade, that will be closer 260 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,840 to 20%. 261 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:51,240 The breakdown is roughly about 11% First Nations, 6% Metis. 262 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,080 And Saskatchewan and Manitoba in particular, which has the highest percentage of Indigenous 263 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,080 population. 264 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,320 You know, the Indigenous population, unlike the non-Indigenous population, they're younger, 265 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,680 they're growing rapidly, and they're going to be a tremendous resource to Saskatchewan 266 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,680 and Manitoba. 267 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,960 And they're just going to really have limitless opportunities. 268 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,920 And we're very excited to play a role in supporting the continued growth and success of those 269 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,840 nations. 270 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,840 So how many projects, I mean, it's been a very short time since you launched, but you 271 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:29,960 mentioned Seven Stars, how many projects have you managed to assist so far to date? 272 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:35,880 Yeah, so the only one we've announced thus far is the Seven Stars Energy Project. 273 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,740 We as I mentioned, have a number of kind of different stages of our application process 274 00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:44,480 and expect to have some more positive stories within the next 12 months. 275 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:49,480 Can you give some background to Seven Stars Energy Project, what exactly it involves? 276 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,480 Sure. 277 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:57,280 So Enbridge, obviously, you know, one of the largest corporations in Canada and one of 278 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,280 the largest kind of energy transportation companies, you know, approached CIFSEE. 279 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:08,080 They had an idea that they were looking to make an additional investment in Saskatchewan 280 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:15,600 into renewable energy to kind of help offset the carbon intensity of their operations. 281 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,920 Something that we were very pleased they announced at the news conference when the project was 282 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,080 announced is, you know, they said they have assets in a large number of jurisdictions, 283 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,600 they could have made the investment anywhere, but they chose Saskatchewan specifically because 284 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:34,200 of the existence of CIFSEE and its ability to help their indigenous partners purchase 285 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,160 ownership equity in the project. 286 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,080 Enbridge identified six nations that they would like to work with and actually, you 287 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,040 know, we met almost weekly for about 11 months. 288 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:51,160 It was a very kind of long process working through all those details, but ultimately 289 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:57,160 it will lead to, you know, those six nations generating revenue through a long-term power 290 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,320 purchase agreement on their ownership share of the 200 megawatts of wind power, which 291 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,600 will provide, you know, really steady predictable revenue for them for 25 to 30 years, which 292 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:13,000 they can use to, you know, advance those priorities, whether they be social, infrastructure, other 293 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,320 economic priorities or whatnot. 294 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:21,180 And we're really proud of the announcement and really excited to have it come online. 295 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:25,500 Something again, I think we may touch on later is one of the challenges for loan guarantee 296 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:32,720 programs has been greenfield projects, kind of the gap between when indigenous applicants 297 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,680 look to make their investment and when a project starts generating revenue, there can be a 298 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,920 gap there and nations can have challenges servicing that debt in the meantime. 299 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,480 Seven Stars was unique in the sense that Enbridge was very willing to have the nations put in 300 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,960 their equity post-construction. 301 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,040 So whilst the project was announced last year, it likely won't start construction until, 302 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,120 you know, this year, later this year, sorry, at the earliest, it won't enter operation 303 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:06,160 until likely 2027, 2028, at which point the nations will put their equity in. 304 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:11,320 But the great thing is, you know, the next month after they invest their equity, they'll 305 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,640 start seeing returns on that investment and start to utilize those profits for their priorities, 306 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,080 as I mentioned. 307 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,400 And I assume one of the reasons Enbridge did that is because they knew working with the 308 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,760 indigenous peoples from the get go would make the whole approval process smoother. 309 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:34,240 Yeah, I think that's certainly a consideration for any kind of greenfield projects looking 310 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,780 for indigenous partners. 311 00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:42,840 Wind energy is a bit of a different, you know, sector than say, you know, the uranium mine 312 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,920 or something like that regarding the application of regulatory process. 313 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,960 But absolutely, I mean, something we say to companies and whether that's with, you know, 314 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,200 equity partnerships or just really good relationships is positive relationships with the rights 315 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,920 holders in proximity to where your project just yields really an innumerable number of 316 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:02,920 benefits. 317 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:09,080 One of those could be, you know, helping to kind of navigate the regulatory process in 318 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,080 a timely manner. 319 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,080 Yes. 320 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:16,320 Matt, can you tell us a bit about the structure of the Métis government and how the indigenous 321 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,840 peoples are organized in Saskatchewan? 322 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:19,840 Sure. 323 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,480 So kind of the highest level is the Métis Nation Saskatchewan Secretariat. 324 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,120 So they have a president, a vice president and a provincial secretary that are elected 325 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,960 and serve all citizens of the province. 326 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,420 Underneath the secretariat, there are actually 12 Métis regions. 327 00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:39,600 Each region elects a director to represent them. 328 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,200 The Métis Nation president and vice president then assign portfolios to the directors of 329 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,240 the different regions to lead on behalf of the nations. 330 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,880 Beneath the 12 regions, there would be a number of locals within each region in regards to 331 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320 sort of economic development. 332 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,400 It's really happening at every level of that kind of governance structure. 333 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,880 And historically, Métis people have always been very entrepreneurial. 334 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,440 I would say that certainly continues. 335 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,320 Indigenous people in Canada are creating new businesses at about nine times the rate of 336 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,280 the non-indigenous population. 337 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,640 In Saskatchewan, Métis people have access to organizations like the Clarence Campo Development 338 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:21,640 Fund. 339 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,760 The CCDF, as we call it, was created over 25 years ago through an agreement between 340 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,980 the government of Saskatchewan and the Métis Nation Saskatchewan. 341 00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:33,360 It receives part of its funding is from giving revenue generated in the province. 342 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,400 And over the past 25 years, it's just done a tremendous job at supporting Métis entrepreneurs, 343 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,720 businesses and communities in the province and really is just one of the top Indigenous 344 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,480 financial institutions in the whole country and really has just done an incredible job 345 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,880 supporting Métis entrepreneurs. 346 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,040 The Métis Nation Secretariat has become more intentional in its involvement in economic 347 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,040 development. 348 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,860 It recently created a Ministry of Economic Development. 349 00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:03,040 It's making direct investments. 350 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:08,400 The Métis Nation Saskatchewan is one of the partners in the Seven Stars Energy Project. 351 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,680 They're forming other partnerships. 352 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:15,520 They're looking to expand their investment portfolio to renewables, uranium, SMRs. 353 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,640 It's all come out, the critical mineral space, forestry and others. 354 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,340 But it's really happening at all levels. 355 00:24:24,340 --> 00:24:29,320 In Canada, recently particularly, there's been a lot of debate and discussion around 356 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:35,400 Indigenous procurement and who's verifying that these businesses are actually Indigenous 357 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,400 owned. 358 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:43,240 The Métis Nation actually created a verified Métis business database, which they've gone 359 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:49,960 through and really verified the citizenship and Indigenous heritage of everybody on that 360 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:56,440 list and it's open and accessible to anybody looking for an Indigenous partner, a Métis 361 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,440 partner. 362 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,840 That's everybody from somebody to help renovate a basement or a bathroom to somebody looking 363 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:09,840 for a multimillion dollar partner to develop a new kind of commercial or industrial project. 364 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,880 The demand or interest in Indigenous partnerships is just really taken off over the last few 365 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,680 years, both Métis, First Nations and Inuit as well. 366 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,480 The government of Saskatchewan four years ago created an event we call the Indigenous 367 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,000 Business Gathering to help connect Indigenous and non-Indigenous businesses. 368 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,480 This is the first event we had four years ago, which we had about 200 people attend. 369 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,720 We're having the fourth one this year. 370 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,800 We've already issued about 950 tickets. 371 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,600 There's about 130 trade show booths already confirmed. 372 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,000 And so there's just been such a massive increase in interest in Indigenous partnerships and 373 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:52,080 a recognition of the size, the complexity, the sophistication, the diversity of Indigenous 374 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,960 businesses and their ability to be really strong partners in almost every sector. 375 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,520 And we're really excited for the event next month and to help support more relationships 376 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,160 being built and strengthened. 377 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,160 Yes. 378 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,480 And with that event coming up that I know is really key, do you have a lot of foreign 379 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,920 firms coming over? 380 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,440 No, not at this time. 381 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:19,080 We have a couple, I believe actually a firm from Australia is going to come over, but 382 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280 we haven't really promoted it internationally too much this far. 383 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,960 That's a discussion that we're sort of having. 384 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,200 So there's a couple of requirements to have a trade show booth at the Indigenous business 385 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,200 gathering. 386 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,640 One is you either have to be an Indigenous-owned business or two, you have to have direct economic 387 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,480 opportunities for Indigenous businesses in the province. 388 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:45,280 It's not a space for consultants or others looking to sell products or services to Indigenous 389 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,280 communities. 390 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,280 And so whilst we've had some initial discussions with some international partners, there's 391 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,760 certainly a huge opportunity to grow that and we're hopefully to advance it. 392 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,980 And through events like PDAC or the Prospector and Developer Association of Canada that takes 393 00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:07,760 place in Toronto next month, which CIFC will be attending and the attendance and participation 394 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,000 at the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit, we're hoping to start fostering and build 395 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000 some of those opportunities for more international collaboration with Indigenous communities 396 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,000 in Saskatchewan. 397 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,760 Yes, well, we look forward to when you're over for the summit, we'll be able to get 398 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,560 a post-event summary to share and maybe we'll have you on the podcast after that as well 399 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,400 to give us an update of what happened. 400 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,760 Yeah, absolutely. 401 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,200 Matt, CIFC, how are you structured and governed? 402 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,720 How do you make investment decisions? 403 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:46,520 Your government funded, but is there an Indigenous philosophy or element to types of transactions 404 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,400 you get involved in? 405 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,600 Yeah, absolutely. 406 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,280 So we are what's referred to as a treasure-borne crown. 407 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,800 So we are an agent of the government of Saskatchewan. 408 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,460 We're housed within the Ministry of Trade and Export Development. 409 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:03,520 As I mentioned, when we were developing the corporation, we had input from six Indigenous 410 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,040 business leaders in the province to help ensure that as we developed the corporation, it was 411 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,500 meeting the needs of what Indigenous communities and peoples were looking for and also kind 412 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:17,560 of incorporating Indigenous priorities and values. 413 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,620 So after the corporation was, or part of the development of the corporation, a decision 414 00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:27,600 was made that the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, which represents all 74 415 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,200 First Nations in the province, and the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan would have permanent 416 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,160 seats on the board that they can choose to appoint who they like. 417 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,320 And so we currently have Sheldon Watney from the Saskatchewan First Nations Natural Resource 418 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,720 Centre of Excellence, which is an affiliate of the FSIN, and Matt Vermette, who is the 419 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,320 Chief Operating Officer of the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan on CIFC's board, who provide 420 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,320 that kind of Indigenous lens and guidance through the decision-making process. 421 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,240 Again, we're very fortunate that both Sheldon and Matt will be joining us in London and 422 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,360 talking about their experience with CIFC, the priorities of some of the First Nations 423 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,480 in Saskatchewan, the Métis Nation in Saskatchewan, and just helping kind of shed some light on 424 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,800 the Indigenous peoples in Saskatchewan and the desire and opportunities to work with 425 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:17,600 them and really kind of foster mutually beneficial kind of economic outcomes for investors. 426 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,680 Just coming back to the SMRs, are they looking at setting up facilities? 427 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,840 Or how does that work? 428 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,280 I mean, over here, you know, it is a big issue. 429 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,720 Okay, SMRs and they're thinking, okay, where are they going to be built? 430 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,760 What's exactly going on in the thinking in Saskatchewan? 431 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:42,040 So on the SMR side, two sites have been tentatively selected for SMRs. 432 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,920 Obviously, there's a lot of consultation and regulatory steps that need to be completed 433 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,920 that. 434 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,120 So they've kind of been selected as potentially the first two sites for SMRs. 435 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,360 On the microreactor side, the Saskatchewan Research Council, which is actually the second 436 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,360 largest government-funded research entity in Canada behind the National Council, is 437 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,360 partnered with the Metal Lake Tribal Council, which represents nine nations in the northwest 438 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,640 of the province. 439 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,960 And one of those nations or a couple of those nations will likely be the site of the first 440 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:20,240 microreactor in addition to, you know, lowering, you know, energy costs and increasing, you 441 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,040 know, energy security and reliability for some of those nations. 442 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,160 It's just going to be a great economic opportunity for them as well. 443 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,280 And they're, again, having, you know, Indigenous peoples and communities leading the way and 444 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:37,080 encouraging the rollout of microreactors is really, I think, something unique to Saskatchewan 445 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,040 and just really looking to participate and capture all the value throughout that value 446 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,920 chain that they can. 447 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,920 And all those same big players, are they European players or just American players at the moment? 448 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,400 I think on the micro side, it's Westinghouse. 449 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,920 I'm not 100% sure of that. 450 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,320 And I think GE Hitachi on the SMR side is one of the bigger players. 451 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:04,440 I think, you know, it's likely, you know, as things evolve, Saskatchewan will purchase 452 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,440 a number of smaller energy reactors. 453 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,160 The first couple may be with Hitachi GE, but I'd imagine there'll be a reevaluation if 454 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,800 those are the best fits continuing to move forward and there will be opportunities for 455 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,760 other vendors to potentially supply Saskatchewan as well. 456 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,760 Okay. 457 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:21,760 Excellent. 458 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,960 I'm really looking forward to hearing about the success of your event because this is 459 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,520 what we first connected over. 460 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,680 And hopefully next year I can get there for it, which would be great. 461 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Yeah, I mean, something that I try to encourage people to think about and we can discuss if 462 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,880 you'd like is I think governments have taken a really great first step in setting up loan 463 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:45,880 guarantee programs. 464 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,600 Obviously, there's a federal program, BC, Manitoba. 465 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,240 But you know, I think there's an opportunity and the need for the private sector to reflect 466 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,720 on some of the ways that they may be able to supplement some of the gaps in the loan 467 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,300 guarantee programs and lenders and traditional banks, I think, need to kind of broaden their 468 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:10,720 view of reconciliation and how they can support it and kind of take a more holistic view on 469 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,640 that because we need them to step in and fill some of those gaps. 470 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:15,640 Absolutely. 471 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,640 Yes. 472 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,640 Okay. 473 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,360 What about the federal loan guarantee program? 474 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,380 What are you hearing about when it might be available? 475 00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:23,920 Are you hearing anything? 476 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,120 It was announced with great fanfare. 477 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,160 Yeah. 478 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:33,840 So the federal loan guarantee program, we were fortunate enough to participate in some 479 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:39,920 of the initial engagement and I can kind of led the scoping and the engagement on the 480 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,760 federal program before kind of handing it off to the Ministry of Finance and C-Dev. 481 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,720 It's my understanding that the program is now live accepting applications. 482 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,400 I'm not sure what their situation is regarding kind of their board and leadership. 483 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,240 I think they're still working through that. 484 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,320 And you know, the creation of the federal program, but also some of the existing provincial 485 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,960 programs, something that's coming up, but actually a lot more in discussion recently 486 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:10,680 is how the corporations and loan guarantee programs will work together or stack together. 487 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,000 So there's complete openness to work together. 488 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,120 What the exact mechanics of that will be will kind of have to be, you know, kind of work 489 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,120 through. 490 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:26,560 So, for example, if Stipsi and the IOC decided to jointly support nations on both sides of 491 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,120 the border in a project, that might be a bit smoother because both of us have double A 492 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,120 credit ratings. 493 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,040 I believe Manitoba, for example, whose program is kind of getting set up and running has 494 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,360 an A credit rating. 495 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,160 And so how will those kind of rates mix? 496 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,480 How will lenders, you know, kind of work with those? 497 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,560 Again, the federal program with the federal kind of balance sheet will likely be able 498 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:52,840 to offer a rate, you know, 80, maybe 100 basis points later than the provincial program. 499 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,840 So as these programs work together and there's going to have to be a lot figured out on how 500 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:03,320 those rates will blend, who will be kind of the primary holder of the loan guarantee, 501 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,120 how will lenders kind of stand behind that, how will different kind of sources of capital 502 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,120 view that? 503 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,000 And it's certainly a lot of work to be done, but the desire is there for everybody to work 504 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,840 together, which I think is really great. 505 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,240 Yeah, when you talk about stacking and the different rates that might be available to 506 00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:22,960 a province versus the federal government, you'd like to think there'd be a way to structure 507 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:30,960 things so that you can sit in behind and take advantage of the federal rate in some way. 508 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,480 Yeah, I think, you know, there's certainly a desire to do that. 509 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,800 And, you know, I know you guys on your website, you correctly identify there's a, you know, 510 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,600 a trillion dollar infrastructure opportunity or gap in Canada. 511 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,120 You know, I personally believe that no major projects in Canada are going to move forward 512 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,680 without Indigenous participation. 513 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,760 So the opportunity for nations to invest in those projects are, you know, they're an enormous 514 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,440 opportunity, but they're going to also, you know, require an enormous access to capital. 515 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,240 So, you know, the federal government has kind of announced an initial tranche of $5 billion, 516 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:10,720 which certainly by almost every metric is a tremendous amount of money. 517 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,960 You know, the one that probably isn't is when it comes to major infrastructure projects 518 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,760 or the infrastructure needs of the country. 519 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,880 And so certainly there's, if there was a way for the federal program to kind of be at the 520 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,000 front with their preferential rate, that would be, you know, great. 521 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,880 But how that would impact their amount of loan guarantees available and that certainly 522 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,560 needs to be worked through, I think. 523 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,560 I think just one of the other comments for our viewers, when you mentioned about the 524 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,640 border, you weren't talking about the southern border with our American neighbours. 525 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,320 You're talking about the provincial border with Alberta. 526 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,360 And I think one of the key things when people come into Canada is there's not initially 527 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,760 a good understanding of how strong the provinces are because the provinces control natural 528 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,640 resources. 529 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,720 And that's always that something has to be worked through. 530 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:05,480 Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, the provinces, you know, do currently get to kind 531 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,120 of have the resource revenue kind of generated. 532 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,760 And there is, there still is kind of a federal regulatory component and environmental impact 533 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,380 assessments when projects reach a certain size and certainly interests and priorities 534 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:19,920 between the province and federal government. 535 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,240 And the same is, you know, sub national levels of government around the world don't always 536 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,720 align and there can be some challenges that need to be worked through there. 537 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:33,080 But, you know, the provinces aren't very strong. 538 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:40,280 Saskatchewan, as an example, you know, sets a lot of its own kind of tax policy and business 539 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:48,400 environment in Saskatchewan, actually, according to, you know, one ranking is the third best 540 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,800 jurisdiction in the world to invest in for mining, you know, the number one in Canada. 541 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,960 And you know, well, certainly we're very happy to be number three. 542 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,620 The question isn't, you know, how do we stay number three? 543 00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:04,000 The question is how do we become number one and we're continuing to do that. 544 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000 And, you know, the province has a very competitive tax and royalty environment. 545 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,280 You know, we have a very responsive government, you know, and the people that do business 546 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,000 here love doing business here and we're hoping more will come do business here. 547 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,520 I'm sure they will. 548 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,080 Thank you very much, Matt Smith, CEO of CIFSI. 549 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,080 It's been great to have you on the program today. 550 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,520 Yeah, thanks a lot for taking time out to join us, Matt, and really looking forward 551 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:34,720 to welcoming you and the entire Saskatchewan delegation to London very soon. 552 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:36,880 There's so much going on. 553 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:43,000 We'll have a lot to talk about with our London attendees. 554 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,800 We're very excited to be there and looking forward to as well. 555 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,160 And thank you for taking time to chat with me today. 556 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,080 Thank you to Matt Smith for sharing his insights with us. 557 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,120 And thank you for viewing and listening. 558 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,360 Be sure to share, subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 559 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,640 Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2025 summit taking place on the 10th of April. 560 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,240 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. 561 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:25,480 Until next time.