Welcome to Drum Beats, the must listen to podcast, which explains why Indigenous partnerships
are the key to securing successful outcomes in natural resource and infrastructure investment
in Canada.
I'm Mark McNacca and my co-host Robert Brant and I are joined today by Matt Smith, a proud
member of the Métis Nation Saskatchewan and Chief Executive Officer of the Saskatchewan
Indigenous Investment Finance Corporation.
He leads efforts to strengthen investment in his province by working with Indigenous
nations to ensure lasting long-term economic development and growth.
We'll cover how CFSI is tackling the challenges of accessing capital, including the rationale
behind the benefits of their own guarantee program.
Matt Smith, Chief Executive Officer of the Saskatchewan Indigenous Investment Finance
Corporation.
Welcome to Drum Beats.
Great to have you with us.
Welcome to Drum Beats, Matt.
Thank you.
So really great to have you with us.
Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background, where you grew up before we get
into your current role?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am what we call a Ote Pimsoak, a citizen of the Métis Nation here in Saskatchewan.
For those that aren't aware, Métis are one of the three Indigenous groups in Canada,
along with the Inuit and First Nations.
The Métis people are really one of the earliest kind of citizens of Canada as settlers from
Europe came to Canada and moved into central and western Canada in the pursuit of fur trading
or other activities.
They kind of interspersed with the First Nations population, many of them taking what's kind
of called country wives.
The children of those relationships typically were raised by the First Nations mother and
over time became known as a distinct people, the Métis people.
So really the Red River in Manitoba is regarded as kind of the birthplace and home of the
Métis people.
So some of my family names are Mackenzie, Brabant, Delorme, Sayer, Crandell, and a few
others.
My family relocated from the Red River to Lebratton, Saskatchewan in the 1860s and stayed
there until around the 1880s where they were part of the families that were dispossessed
of their lands to make way for the Canadian rail lines.
My family stayed in the area but moved around a little bit in the Corpel Valley.
And then my grandfather, Toby Mackenzie, was a World War I veteran and shortly after the
war relocated to Regina, which is where our family has been since.
So I was born and raised here.
I lived in Regina until I was 21, at which time I saw a little bit of adventure.
And looked to go to do some backpacking in Europe and arrived in London with about 140
pounds to my name and needed to get a job right away.
I actually ended up calling England home for the next 13 years and did a fair bit of traveling
during that time.
But certainly I really enjoyed my time in England.
I returned to Canada in 2012 with the plans of staying here for a couple of years.
Got a job with the government of Saskatchewan in the international relations area, which
I really enjoyed.
And then around 2018, an opportunity to join a group of really smart, passionate, Indigenous-led
people in Indigenous economic development here in government of Saskatchewan came open.
And I absolutely left at the chance and have been loving every minute since.
Matt, I'd help with noting that, especially our international investors or listeners,
there is Saskatchewan and Manitoba.
Sure.
So Saskatchewan, as we say, is hard to pronounce, easy to draw.
So if you look at Canada and Hudson's Bay, Manitoba and Northwest Territories kind of
touch onto the Hudson's Bay there.
And then Saskatchewan is the next province west of Manitoba.
And if you see it on a map, it's a slightly kind of oblong rectangle.
So it's a large province geographically, but we have a population of, I think, around 1.1,
1.2 million people.
So not a huge population density, but a lot of really great people here in the province.
So there's a bit of a history with Saskatchewan too, because I think it was Sitting Bull who
came up to be protected by the Great White Mother.
But even him and his people found it was too cold in the winter.
And I think you mentioned earlier when we're talking that it was minus 40 something last
week, but it's warming up, so it's minus 20.
So yeah, it's our interpretation of the weather could be different than some other parts of
the world.
And we really do get both extremes here.
So it can get down to minus 40, minus 50 in the winter, but get up into the high 30s,
and even pretty close to 40 in the summer.
So we do get the best or worst of both, but it's just really a fantastic place to live
and raise a family and really blessed with an abundance of resources, which I think we'll
talk about it as we chat here today.
Yeah, the province itself, give us an idea of the size and scale of that compared to,
say, the United Kingdom.
And I think of Saskatchewan and the agricultural sector and prairies, but it's much more than
that, isn't it?
Yeah, so I mean, geographically, Saskatchewan is just a little under three times the size
of the entire United Kingdom.
The bottom third of the province is very agricultural.
Saskatchewan's home to 40% of all farmland in Canada.
There's a lot of powdash mining, also some helium, and other kind of mining opportunities
in the south of the province and in the north.
Our top two thirds is covered by forest, roughly about the same size as Germany.
And that's where all the uranium mining is done.
Certainly all the critical mineral and rare earth element exploration is happening.
And so really, it is a very diverse province, but very large for sure.
Should we get into, Mitch stood in the education too.
You came over to Oxford and what attracted you other than the fact that it's a fantastic
school?
Yeah, so as I said, I consider myself to be based in the UK.
And after I finished my undergrad, I decided I wanted to do a master's degree.
I actually only applied to two schools, one being Oxford and the other being the London
School of Economics.
I was fortunately accepted to both.
And Oxford, to me at that time, and certainly the advice I provide people now is you can't
say no to it.
And it was such a, in addition to kind of the actual education, the experience of being
there and just the huge change in ceremony and structure and whatever was a really great
experience.
And I absolutely loved the time I spent there as well.
That's fantastic.
And that education has prepared you well for the role you sit in today.
How did that all come about?
Through kind of a lot of my travels internationally.
So I've been fortunate to work and travel through, I mean, I think probably around 60
or 70 countries on six continents.
And what I saw and kind of learned at that time, it really inspired me when I returned
to school to kind of focus on development studies.
And that's where I focused a lot of my undergrad.
And then when it came time to do my master's and I was thinking about how I could make
a contribution, kind of that governance, diplomacy opportunities in that space really appealed
to me.
And again, Oxford with its reputation and the program it was offering was a really great
fit for me.
I'm sure just talking about this somebody yesterday, I mean, for Indigenous people,
you know, education really is the new buffalo.
And you know, it just puts you in such a stronger position to contribute and succeed as an Indigenous
person.
And all of that travel, what was it that took you to so many countries?
Well, there was a few that were kind of work related, but really, it was just a passion
of seeing the world and experiencing new and different things.
It's still a passion of mine with, you know, a career in a young family now, my opportunities
are much more restricted.
You know, last year, I was able to return and see some friends in the UK and go down
to Istanbul for a few days.
But apart from that, you know, I used to spend a year in Southeast Asia or, you know, four
or six months in Africa, four or six months in South America.
I lived and worked in Australia for a year.
And I think those days are gone, but just really a thirst for new experiences and learning
things.
And, you know, I feel completely honest when I say, you know, I learned as much traveling
as I did in my formal education and just how to interact with people and be respectful
of other cultures.
And yeah, it just it's really prepared me for success in a different way than my education,
I think.
Why don't you tell us a bit about your role as CEO of the SIIFC?
You've got your logo up in the background.
Sure.
So SIFSI, we kind of alternate between calling it SIFSI and SIFSI, but it kind of came about,
I would say the government of Saskatchewan recognized that, you know, existing barriers
to access to capital for Indigenous people in the province were really preventing them
from, you know, yielding the full benefits of some of the projects that were occurring
here in the province.
And so in about 2021, 2022, we began work on exploring what the opportunities were to
support increased access to capital for Indigenous communities in the province through kind of
some research and conversations and leadership from six Indigenous business leaders from
Saskatchewan who helped guide us through that process.
You know, we kind of identified the loan guarantees or loan guarantee program being probably the
best fit to help support that increased participation.
We received a lot of advice and support from our friends to the West in Alberta from the
Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation, who were really kind of the front runner in
the space, and Shannon and her team continue to be just really great, you know, mentors
and resources and supporters of us.
So we're very fortunate in that space.
So just as a bit of background, Indigenous people for, you know, a broad range of reasons,
but you know, particularly through the Indian Act and some other legislation aren't able
to, you know, utilize any of their kind of assets as collateral for investments.
And as a result, they've had challenges accessing capital or in instances where they can access
capital, the rates are really non-competitive and really impact the overall viability of
the investment or certainly drastically reduce the potential returns from those investment.
Loan guarantee from the government of Saskatchewan with the province's AA credit rating really
not only allows Indigenous communities to access capital, but really much more competitively
priced and, you know, competitive capital that helps more money go back to the community
for them to utilize, you know, in their priorities.
And I understand CFSI covers such sectors as critical minerals, RE processing, SMRs,
micro reactors and forestry.
So quite a broad range and a lot of areas that aren't necessarily associated with Saskatchewan,
obviously with potash.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we cover all kind of opportunities within the natural resource space, value added to
agriculture, energy, renewable energy, and we also have kind of an associated infrastructure
category as well.
I think Saskatchewan, I mean, a number of people are aware of the province and what
we have to offer the world.
But as an example, you know, Saskatchewan is actually the largest miner and producer of
critical minerals in Canada.
In 2023, the province, you know, produced over $12 billion of critical minerals, the
majority of that being potash and uranium.
Helium is starting to come into that mix.
Saskatchewan is home to 27 of the 34 critical minerals identified by Canada.
And certainly the opportunities for Indigenous people in the province as a whole that those
will generate are absolutely enormous.
Saskatchewan is home to the only metals to mineral processing, rare earth element processing
facility in North America, which is really going to lay the foundation, we think, for
a strong supply chain as the minerals continue to be found and mined, produced in Saskatchewan.
Saskatchewan's also fully committed to the rollout of small modular reactors and micro
reactors, which is a really exciting new opportunity for Indigenous people.
And I think one of the first, if not the first sector where Indigenous people are going to
have the opportunity to participate in from the beginning.
And you know, that's estimated that as SMRs are deployed around the world, that by 2040,
that will be around $150 billion a sector.
So a lot of excitement and opportunity there for sure.
What about on the SMRs?
Can you describe a bit more about what exactly is going on in Saskatchewan concerning SMRs?
Is it just uranium or they're actually being built there, assembled there?
I think all the big players are coming to talk to you.
Yeah, absolutely.
So Saskatchewan, you know, basically produces all of the uranium in Canada.
Canada is the world's number two producer of uranium.
So effectively Saskatchewan is the world's number two producer of uranium.
We have a number of new uranium projects coming online.
So we will definitely be a key component in the fuel supply chain, but additionally, businesses
in Saskatchewan and actually particularly Indigenous businesses are making acquisitions.
They're forming partnerships both in and outside the province to take advantage of those supply
chain opportunities.
I think in Canada, like elsewhere, what exactly those opportunities are, are still kind of
being figured out.
But certainly there's a desire by Saskatchewan and Indigenous communities and businesses
in Saskatchewan to be involved in absolutely every aspect of the development of SMRs, the
deployment, the fueling, the employment.
You know, it's just Saskatchewan's history, you know, in comfort with kind of uranium
and whatnot is I think a bit unique.
And Indigenous communities are actually amongst those leading the way and supporting the rollout
of SMRs.
A few of those, including the Deseneti Group and Kitsaki Management Partnership, the Centre
of Excellence, Saskatchewan First Nations Natural Resource Centre of Excellence are three of
the four groups in Saskatchewan that are really leading the charge of Indigenous participation
in SMRs.
The Metis Nations Saskatchewan is also a proponent of that and they'll all be actually in London
attending the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit and we're really excited to help them
tell their story.
Absolutely.
And the organization, Matt, is relatively new.
2022 was it when it was established?
So we began developing it in kind of 2022.
We officially launched in 2023.
It is a relatively new organization.
Certainly the uptake and interest has been very substantial.
I think we'll probably, you know, get into a bit more of an in-depth discussion later.
But you know, loan guarantee programs are incredibly, you know, useful beneficial tools
for Indigenous communities to utilize to invest in projects.
But given kind of the risk tolerance and some of the other restrictions we can talk about
later, you know, the types of projects that fit within kind of the mandate and the structure
can be quite limited.
And so, you know, we've had, you know, I would say in the area of kind of a billion dollars
with projects make their way through the application process, but the ones that actually fit within
the program are much fewer.
We officially announced an up to $100M loan guarantee for six nations.
Participate in what's called the Seven Stars Energy Project, 200 megawatt wind generation
facility in partnership with Enbridge.
Last year, the $100M is dependent partially on the nations having at least 30% equity
ownership in that project.
Actually just the six nations involved and certainly the Metis nation, Saskatchewan being
one of them, and there are over 40,000 citizens.
You know, there's about 45 to 50,000 total Indigenous people will benefit from that project
which will generate revenue for those nations for 25 to 30 years, which is actually almost
25% of Saskatchewan's total Indigenous population will benefit just from that one project.
And we certainly are hopeful we'll have some more positive announcements in the next kind
of year or so that will bring more benefits to more nations here in Saskatchewan.
Just a bit of background for everyone is what percent of the population is Indigenous in
Saskatchewan?
So in Canada in general, I believe the population is about 5% in Saskatchewan.
According to the last census, it's about 17%.
I expect by the next census and certainly by the end of the decade, that will be closer
to 20%.
The breakdown is roughly about 11% First Nations, 6% Metis.
And Saskatchewan and Manitoba in particular, which has the highest percentage of Indigenous
population.
You know, the Indigenous population, unlike the non-Indigenous population, they're younger,
they're growing rapidly, and they're going to be a tremendous resource to Saskatchewan
and Manitoba.
And they're just going to really have limitless opportunities.
And we're very excited to play a role in supporting the continued growth and success of those
nations.
So how many projects, I mean, it's been a very short time since you launched, but you
mentioned Seven Stars, how many projects have you managed to assist so far to date?
Yeah, so the only one we've announced thus far is the Seven Stars Energy Project.
We as I mentioned, have a number of kind of different stages of our application process
and expect to have some more positive stories within the next 12 months.
Can you give some background to Seven Stars Energy Project, what exactly it involves?
Sure.
So Enbridge, obviously, you know, one of the largest corporations in Canada and one of
the largest kind of energy transportation companies, you know, approached CIFSEE.
They had an idea that they were looking to make an additional investment in Saskatchewan
into renewable energy to kind of help offset the carbon intensity of their operations.
Something that we were very pleased they announced at the news conference when the project was
announced is, you know, they said they have assets in a large number of jurisdictions,
they could have made the investment anywhere, but they chose Saskatchewan specifically because
of the existence of CIFSEE and its ability to help their indigenous partners purchase
ownership equity in the project.
Enbridge identified six nations that they would like to work with and actually, you
know, we met almost weekly for about 11 months.
It was a very kind of long process working through all those details, but ultimately
it will lead to, you know, those six nations generating revenue through a long-term power
purchase agreement on their ownership share of the 200 megawatts of wind power, which
will provide, you know, really steady predictable revenue for them for 25 to 30 years, which
they can use to, you know, advance those priorities, whether they be social, infrastructure, other
economic priorities or whatnot.
And we're really proud of the announcement and really excited to have it come online.
Something again, I think we may touch on later is one of the challenges for loan guarantee
programs has been greenfield projects, kind of the gap between when indigenous applicants
look to make their investment and when a project starts generating revenue, there can be a
gap there and nations can have challenges servicing that debt in the meantime.
Seven Stars was unique in the sense that Enbridge was very willing to have the nations put in
their equity post-construction.
So whilst the project was announced last year, it likely won't start construction until,
you know, this year, later this year, sorry, at the earliest, it won't enter operation
until likely 2027, 2028, at which point the nations will put their equity in.
But the great thing is, you know, the next month after they invest their equity, they'll
start seeing returns on that investment and start to utilize those profits for their priorities,
as I mentioned.
And I assume one of the reasons Enbridge did that is because they knew working with the
indigenous peoples from the get go would make the whole approval process smoother.
Yeah, I think that's certainly a consideration for any kind of greenfield projects looking
for indigenous partners.
Wind energy is a bit of a different, you know, sector than say, you know, the uranium mine
or something like that regarding the application of regulatory process.
But absolutely, I mean, something we say to companies and whether that's with, you know,
equity partnerships or just really good relationships is positive relationships with the rights
holders in proximity to where your project just yields really an innumerable number of
benefits.
One of those could be, you know, helping to kind of navigate the regulatory process in
a timely manner.
Yes.
Matt, can you tell us a bit about the structure of the Métis government and how the indigenous
peoples are organized in Saskatchewan?
Sure.
So kind of the highest level is the Métis Nation Saskatchewan Secretariat.
So they have a president, a vice president and a provincial secretary that are elected
and serve all citizens of the province.
Underneath the secretariat, there are actually 12 Métis regions.
Each region elects a director to represent them.
The Métis Nation president and vice president then assign portfolios to the directors of
the different regions to lead on behalf of the nations.
Beneath the 12 regions, there would be a number of locals within each region in regards to
sort of economic development.
It's really happening at every level of that kind of governance structure.
And historically, Métis people have always been very entrepreneurial.
I would say that certainly continues.
Indigenous people in Canada are creating new businesses at about nine times the rate of
the non-indigenous population.
In Saskatchewan, Métis people have access to organizations like the Clarence Campo Development
Fund.
The CCDF, as we call it, was created over 25 years ago through an agreement between
the government of Saskatchewan and the Métis Nation Saskatchewan.
It receives part of its funding is from giving revenue generated in the province.
And over the past 25 years, it's just done a tremendous job at supporting Métis entrepreneurs,
businesses and communities in the province and really is just one of the top Indigenous
financial institutions in the whole country and really has just done an incredible job
supporting Métis entrepreneurs.
The Métis Nation Secretariat has become more intentional in its involvement in economic
development.
It recently created a Ministry of Economic Development.
It's making direct investments.
The Métis Nation Saskatchewan is one of the partners in the Seven Stars Energy Project.
They're forming other partnerships.
They're looking to expand their investment portfolio to renewables, uranium, SMRs.
It's all come out, the critical mineral space, forestry and others.
But it's really happening at all levels.
In Canada, recently particularly, there's been a lot of debate and discussion around
Indigenous procurement and who's verifying that these businesses are actually Indigenous
owned.
The Métis Nation actually created a verified Métis business database, which they've gone
through and really verified the citizenship and Indigenous heritage of everybody on that
list and it's open and accessible to anybody looking for an Indigenous partner, a Métis
partner.
That's everybody from somebody to help renovate a basement or a bathroom to somebody looking
for a multimillion dollar partner to develop a new kind of commercial or industrial project.
The demand or interest in Indigenous partnerships is just really taken off over the last few
years, both Métis, First Nations and Inuit as well.
The government of Saskatchewan four years ago created an event we call the Indigenous
Business Gathering to help connect Indigenous and non-Indigenous businesses.
This is the first event we had four years ago, which we had about 200 people attend.
We're having the fourth one this year.
We've already issued about 950 tickets.
There's about 130 trade show booths already confirmed.
And so there's just been such a massive increase in interest in Indigenous partnerships and
a recognition of the size, the complexity, the sophistication, the diversity of Indigenous
businesses and their ability to be really strong partners in almost every sector.
And we're really excited for the event next month and to help support more relationships
being built and strengthened.
Yes.
And with that event coming up that I know is really key, do you have a lot of foreign
firms coming over?
No, not at this time.
We have a couple, I believe actually a firm from Australia is going to come over, but
we haven't really promoted it internationally too much this far.
That's a discussion that we're sort of having.
So there's a couple of requirements to have a trade show booth at the Indigenous business
gathering.
One is you either have to be an Indigenous-owned business or two, you have to have direct economic
opportunities for Indigenous businesses in the province.
It's not a space for consultants or others looking to sell products or services to Indigenous
communities.
And so whilst we've had some initial discussions with some international partners, there's
certainly a huge opportunity to grow that and we're hopefully to advance it.
And through events like PDAC or the Prospector and Developer Association of Canada that takes
place in Toronto next month, which CIFC will be attending and the attendance and participation
at the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit, we're hoping to start fostering and build
some of those opportunities for more international collaboration with Indigenous communities
in Saskatchewan.
Yes, well, we look forward to when you're over for the summit, we'll be able to get
a post-event summary to share and maybe we'll have you on the podcast after that as well
to give us an update of what happened.
Yeah, absolutely.
Matt, CIFC, how are you structured and governed?
How do you make investment decisions?
Your government funded, but is there an Indigenous philosophy or element to types of transactions
you get involved in?
Yeah, absolutely.
So we are what's referred to as a treasure-borne crown.
So we are an agent of the government of Saskatchewan.
We're housed within the Ministry of Trade and Export Development.
As I mentioned, when we were developing the corporation, we had input from six Indigenous
business leaders in the province to help ensure that as we developed the corporation, it was
meeting the needs of what Indigenous communities and peoples were looking for and also kind
of incorporating Indigenous priorities and values.
So after the corporation was, or part of the development of the corporation, a decision
was made that the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, which represents all 74
First Nations in the province, and the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan would have permanent
seats on the board that they can choose to appoint who they like.
And so we currently have Sheldon Watney from the Saskatchewan First Nations Natural Resource
Centre of Excellence, which is an affiliate of the FSIN, and Matt Vermette, who is the
Chief Operating Officer of the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan on CIFC's board, who provide
that kind of Indigenous lens and guidance through the decision-making process.
Again, we're very fortunate that both Sheldon and Matt will be joining us in London and
talking about their experience with CIFC, the priorities of some of the First Nations
in Saskatchewan, the Métis Nation in Saskatchewan, and just helping kind of shed some light on
the Indigenous peoples in Saskatchewan and the desire and opportunities to work with
them and really kind of foster mutually beneficial kind of economic outcomes for investors.
Just coming back to the SMRs, are they looking at setting up facilities?
Or how does that work?
I mean, over here, you know, it is a big issue.
Okay, SMRs and they're thinking, okay, where are they going to be built?
What's exactly going on in the thinking in Saskatchewan?
So on the SMR side, two sites have been tentatively selected for SMRs.
Obviously, there's a lot of consultation and regulatory steps that need to be completed
that.
So they've kind of been selected as potentially the first two sites for SMRs.
On the microreactor side, the Saskatchewan Research Council, which is actually the second
largest government-funded research entity in Canada behind the National Council, is
partnered with the Metal Lake Tribal Council, which represents nine nations in the northwest
of the province.
And one of those nations or a couple of those nations will likely be the site of the first
microreactor in addition to, you know, lowering, you know, energy costs and increasing, you
know, energy security and reliability for some of those nations.
It's just going to be a great economic opportunity for them as well.
And they're, again, having, you know, Indigenous peoples and communities leading the way and
encouraging the rollout of microreactors is really, I think, something unique to Saskatchewan
and just really looking to participate and capture all the value throughout that value
chain that they can.
And all those same big players, are they European players or just American players at the moment?
I think on the micro side, it's Westinghouse.
I'm not 100% sure of that.
And I think GE Hitachi on the SMR side is one of the bigger players.
I think, you know, it's likely, you know, as things evolve, Saskatchewan will purchase
a number of smaller energy reactors.
The first couple may be with Hitachi GE, but I'd imagine there'll be a reevaluation if
those are the best fits continuing to move forward and there will be opportunities for
other vendors to potentially supply Saskatchewan as well.
Okay.
Excellent.
I'm really looking forward to hearing about the success of your event because this is
what we first connected over.
And hopefully next year I can get there for it, which would be great.
Yeah, I mean, something that I try to encourage people to think about and we can discuss if
you'd like is I think governments have taken a really great first step in setting up loan
guarantee programs.
Obviously, there's a federal program, BC, Manitoba.
But you know, I think there's an opportunity and the need for the private sector to reflect
on some of the ways that they may be able to supplement some of the gaps in the loan
guarantee programs and lenders and traditional banks, I think, need to kind of broaden their
view of reconciliation and how they can support it and kind of take a more holistic view on
that because we need them to step in and fill some of those gaps.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Okay.
What about the federal loan guarantee program?
What are you hearing about when it might be available?
Are you hearing anything?
It was announced with great fanfare.
Yeah.
So the federal loan guarantee program, we were fortunate enough to participate in some
of the initial engagement and I can kind of led the scoping and the engagement on the
federal program before kind of handing it off to the Ministry of Finance and C-Dev.
It's my understanding that the program is now live accepting applications.
I'm not sure what their situation is regarding kind of their board and leadership.
I think they're still working through that.
And you know, the creation of the federal program, but also some of the existing provincial
programs, something that's coming up, but actually a lot more in discussion recently
is how the corporations and loan guarantee programs will work together or stack together.
So there's complete openness to work together.
What the exact mechanics of that will be will kind of have to be, you know, kind of work
through.
So, for example, if Stipsi and the IOC decided to jointly support nations on both sides of
the border in a project, that might be a bit smoother because both of us have double A
credit ratings.
I believe Manitoba, for example, whose program is kind of getting set up and running has
an A credit rating.
And so how will those kind of rates mix?
How will lenders, you know, kind of work with those?
Again, the federal program with the federal kind of balance sheet will likely be able
to offer a rate, you know, 80, maybe 100 basis points later than the provincial program.
So as these programs work together and there's going to have to be a lot figured out on how
those rates will blend, who will be kind of the primary holder of the loan guarantee,
how will lenders kind of stand behind that, how will different kind of sources of capital
view that?
And it's certainly a lot of work to be done, but the desire is there for everybody to work
together, which I think is really great.
Yeah, when you talk about stacking and the different rates that might be available to
a province versus the federal government, you'd like to think there'd be a way to structure
things so that you can sit in behind and take advantage of the federal rate in some way.
Yeah, I think, you know, there's certainly a desire to do that.
And, you know, I know you guys on your website, you correctly identify there's a, you know,
a trillion dollar infrastructure opportunity or gap in Canada.
You know, I personally believe that no major projects in Canada are going to move forward
without Indigenous participation.
So the opportunity for nations to invest in those projects are, you know, they're an enormous
opportunity, but they're going to also, you know, require an enormous access to capital.
So, you know, the federal government has kind of announced an initial tranche of $5 billion,
which certainly by almost every metric is a tremendous amount of money.
You know, the one that probably isn't is when it comes to major infrastructure projects
or the infrastructure needs of the country.
And so certainly there's, if there was a way for the federal program to kind of be at the
front with their preferential rate, that would be, you know, great.
But how that would impact their amount of loan guarantees available and that certainly
needs to be worked through, I think.
I think just one of the other comments for our viewers, when you mentioned about the
border, you weren't talking about the southern border with our American neighbours.
You're talking about the provincial border with Alberta.
And I think one of the key things when people come into Canada is there's not initially
a good understanding of how strong the provinces are because the provinces control natural
resources.
And that's always that something has to be worked through.
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, the provinces, you know, do currently get to kind
of have the resource revenue kind of generated.
And there is, there still is kind of a federal regulatory component and environmental impact
assessments when projects reach a certain size and certainly interests and priorities
between the province and federal government.
And the same is, you know, sub national levels of government around the world don't always
align and there can be some challenges that need to be worked through there.
But, you know, the provinces aren't very strong.
Saskatchewan, as an example, you know, sets a lot of its own kind of tax policy and business
environment in Saskatchewan, actually, according to, you know, one ranking is the third best
jurisdiction in the world to invest in for mining, you know, the number one in Canada.
And you know, well, certainly we're very happy to be number three.
The question isn't, you know, how do we stay number three?
The question is how do we become number one and we're continuing to do that.
And, you know, the province has a very competitive tax and royalty environment.
You know, we have a very responsive government, you know, and the people that do business
here love doing business here and we're hoping more will come do business here.
I'm sure they will.
Thank you very much, Matt Smith, CEO of CIFSI.
It's been great to have you on the program today.
Yeah, thanks a lot for taking time out to join us, Matt, and really looking forward
to welcoming you and the entire Saskatchewan delegation to London very soon.
There's so much going on.
We'll have a lot to talk about with our London attendees.
We're very excited to be there and looking forward to as well.
And thank you for taking time to chat with me today.
Thank you to Matt Smith for sharing his insights with us.
And thank you for viewing and listening.
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