Welcome to Drum Beats, the must listen to podcast, which explains why Indigenous partnerships
are the key to securing successful outcomes in natural resource and infrastructure investment
in Canada.
I'm Mark McNach and my co-host Robert Branton are joined today by Clint Davis, the CEO of
Cedar Leaf Capital, Canada's first majority Indigenous owned investment dealer.
He's an Inuk from Labrador and a beneficiary under the Labrador Inuit Land Claim Agreement.
He continues to play a major role in opening doors for Indigenous people, businesses, and
communities in capital markets.
He's been at the forefront of this effort, helping to create new financial opportunities
for the Indigenous nations.
Join us as we explore how these critical conversations are reshaping economic development across
Canada.
Clint Davis, CEO of Cedar Leaf Capital.
Thanks for joining us.
It's a real pleasure to be here.
Great to have you here.
Thank you for taking the time.
I'm excited.
This is going to be a great conversation, I think.
You've worn so many hats over the years.
There's a lot to get into and only a short amount of time.
But to start with, love to hear a bit about your personal story and your background, where
you grew up and how you ended up at Cedar Leaf.
So I'm Inuk from Labrador.
I was born and raised in Goose Bay, which was a town, little town that was built by
the Americans after World War II because of a strategic location in terms of national
and international security.
My mom was quite young when she had me, so I was raised by my grandparents.
My grandfather was a hunter and a fisherman and a trapper.
My grandmother raised nine kids, although she called me her tenth.
When I was young, they decided to go back to the Cartwright area to our fishing cabin.
That's where they would do inshore fishing for salmon, trout, et cetera.
It was funny because when I learned about cottages here in southern Ontario, people
complained about the drives.
When you get to their cottages, they have stainless steel appliances and people get
upset about the internet or you need to have at least two televisions.
So I would like to tell people when we went to our cabin, there was no running water,
no electricity, no roads, nothing, your footpaths and so on.
We would have to get on a ferry from Goose Bay and it was 24 hours to get to Cartwright,
which is a village of about 300 to 400 people, and then get in a speedboat, which is like
a fishing boat, to go another hour to get to our cabin where you were it and maybe a
couple of other families in the woods.
It was fishing.
There was no hunting.
It was primarily fishing and berry picking.
You were really one with nature.
At the time, we would have a lot of family there.
It was exciting.
It was fun.
As I got older, when you're 13, 14, it was hard work.
I had to cut wood, you had to collect wood, you had to go fishing, you had to check nets,
et cetera.
So I actually wanted to stay home in Goose Bay because I just wanted to hang with my
friends.
But as I got older, I realized what an opportunity that was and how blessed I was to have a hint
of what it was like to be exposed to culture and to be exposed to traditional activities
like fishing and to learn from my grandparents and from my aunts and uncles.
So it was quite incredible.
I was the first person in my extended family to get a degree.
Education was important to my grandmother.
She had grade 10, I believe, and my grandfather had grade six.
I was kind of good in school.
My grandmother wanted me to be independent.
She said, get a job, care for your family if you have a family, and don't live with
me when you're 40.
And so I decided that school seems good.
And I hooked into my cousin because he was sort of on that trajectory.
And as luck would have it, I ended up getting accepted to go to business school, from there
law school.
And after a period of time, I ended up going to Harvard, all because it was rather serendipitous.
You cross paths, Rob, and you know this with the right people at the right time.
I like to tell people that I'm probably an example that Harvard has a sense of humor.
So I had a buddy of mine who did the Kennedy School program, the Masters of Public Administration,
and said that this is something you should really consider.
And that's what I did.
It was life changing for me.
Beautiful, beautiful.
And did your grandparents, are they alive today?
Did they live to see their boy attend Harvard?
My grandfather passed when I was actually in law school.
And my grandmother did live to see me graduate.
And she was there in Cambridge.
And it was just so exciting.
She was funny though.
She came to all my graduations, so business school, she was so excited.
Then I went to law school, she couldn't believe it.
And then when I went to Harvard, she was like, well, you know, do you think you've been in
school long enough?
She was trying to be very pragmatic.
I was trying to figure out, you know, where's this guy going to land in terms of a job?
But listen, she was over the moon to have that experience.
And I was more than proud to share that with her.
The way you talk about it, it sounds like a lot of those values that were instilled
in you are still with you today and maybe govern how you operate at a senior executive
role.
Can you talk a little bit about some of those values and how they have influenced your professional
career?
Yeah, it's a great question.
And Rob, to be quite honest with you, it's just a couple of little bits of insight, right?
Which I'm sure you probably went through as well.
But when I went to business school, there was two big things that really stood out for
me.
One was I met so many people who didn't have any Indigenous ancestry.
And I was kind of shocked.
In Goose Bay, the representation of Indigenous people is like 25%, right?
So you had the First Nation people being the Innu were present.
It's their traditional territory.
And so many people who are Inuit and of Inuit ancestry, everyone kind of gravitated to Goose
Bay for work, right?
So came from the coast and went to work.
And so it was just so prevalent in our schools and with families and, you know, and so you
just kind of that was our normal, right?
We didn't sort of think of it as being different or unique.
So I couldn't believe how many people actually didn't have Indigenous ancestry, you know,
on my residence floor at Acadia University.
The other thing that was quite shocking, and you know, this is the stuff I think helps
drive my volumes, but was how many people were sort of set on the path to go to business
school and then go to law school.
And so I never sort of thought, well, I knew I would get a job.
I never thought in the early days that, you know, university was going to be a serious
consideration.
It was only until I got to come to high school that it became serious.
And it was just, it blew me away that so many kids had parents who, you know, this was their
path and that was kind of set it for them.
And so I just, you know, I admire that.
I was a bit shocking.
But it was kind of an eye-opening experience for me.
I think on the value side, in terms of my own personal experience and how that drives
me in the roles I've been a part of, I think a couple of things is one, you know, taking
time to stop and learn, right?
And to be excited about that opportunity around continuous learning.
And you know, when I was around my family and my grandparents and, you know, effectively
they were living off the land to a certain degree.
Obviously, I didn't know the answers and I didn't know what I was doing at the time.
So it was really trying to get that learning about how you do certain things when you're
in that type of environment.
The other piece is, I think, you know, this recognition of the value of the land and,
you know, being very conscientious about the business that you do and any of its impact
kind of on the land.
And understanding how frankly synonymous the land is with, you know, Indigenous people
in this community, right?
And so I think those are some of the key values that sort of drive me in terms of my own leadership
and different executive roles that I've had.
And you've held some high-profile roles, very senior management roles in your career prior
to Cedar Leaf.
Do you want to talk a little bit about some of those?
My career hasn't been linear, right?
It's been kind of really almost squiggly, I suppose.
And I wouldn't have changed it for the world.
I think it sort of helps to build me to where I am today.
So one was, I was a senior advisor to two different cabinet ministers at a time when
there was really a push for Indigenous, you know, sovereignty recognition, Indigenous
participation in projects.
One of the most exciting roles I've had was I was a Northern advisor to the Minister of
Indigenous and Northern Affairs.
And we were, you know, in the three territories and the territories at the time were really
doing a lot around, you know, that's when the diamond mines were coming on stream and
there was devolution that was being talked about.
There's a greater level of governance activities by the Northwest Territories and the resolution
of land claims in the Yukon.
And at the time in the late 90s Nunavut was just created as well.
So it was just a really exciting time in the North.
And I always thought that the North was a window into Indigenous reconciliation because
you had such, again, a very high percentage of Indigenous people who live and work in
the North.
And it was common knowledge that Indigenous people were becoming like the premiers and
cabinet ministers and so on, right?
So it was really that window into what I think is starting to materialize here in Canada.
I had the pleasure of being the CEO of the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business,
had a chance to really work with a great team and a great board to kind of build its profile
and to really, I think, influence the narrative on the importance of Indigenous business to
this economy.
That's a great organization.
I had my first summer job there about 40 years ago.
There were two people.
Yeah, it has longevity, right?
It really was ahead of its time.
And you know, it took the vision of a couple of key Indigenous, or sorry, Indigenous and
non-Indigenous leaders, corporate leaders, to say that something has to happen because
we cannot have such a significant important part of the population of Canada being completely
disenfranchised for participating in the economy.
And so it was such a beautiful organization in terms of its mandate, its purpose of being.
And yeah, the honor of being the CEO there was quite something.
And today, Cedar Leaf, an exciting new organization with some high profile shareholders.
What is Cedar Leaf and where's the genesis for that?
Rob, it's a great story.
It actually started about two, two and a half years ago.
And it was a pull from the market.
So it wasn't, you know, coming from the Indigenous business leadership at the time or from one
of the major financial institutions or anything of that nature.
But it was a major resource company in Canada.
And they were issuing securities bonds in the United States.
And in the US, you actually have a really quite a decent growing robust ecosystem of
investment dealers that have unique ownership.
And so that ownership represents minorities from African-American, Latino-American, and
tribal as well as women, veterans, people with disabilities.
And so these are investment dealers that bring a unique perspective to syndicates as well
as opening up new avenues for investors.
And so many of the companies that are Canadian companies that actually issue in the United States have used these minority dealers.
And so this resource company asked the question as to whether or not anything like that existed
in Canada.
And if so, if it was Indigenous, that they would give serious consideration to working
with that company.
And so that was expressed to Scotiabank.
And so Scotiabank did some research, realized very quickly that, in fact, there wasn't any
type of dealer that had that unique ownership.
And they thought to themselves that what we should be looking at is in alignment with
reconciliation, that we should stand one up so that we can provide it with the necessary
footing, foundation, and so that ultimately you'd have a 100% Indigenous-owned and controlled
investment dealer.
So I came on board and was asked to assist in this particular endeavor.
They had made a number of really great strides.
And so I came in to do two things.
One was to assist with the application process and to help run it through their internal
approvals and then ultimately get it to the regulator, but also to identify the right
Indigenous partners.
And so as you know, what you want to do for a company like this is to, because it's new,
because it's a unique type of industry, what you want to do is you want to have the right
partners and have a small number of partners initially, and potentially there's the opportunity
to expand.
And so one of the things, because of the commercial sensitivity to this, everything was done under
the guise of an NDA.
And the advice I gave, and that was the path we actually took, was to say, look, the partnership
be community-based partners, so there'd be no question whatsoever regarding indigeneity,
et cetera.
Those community partners should have a relationship with Scotiabank because, again, the commercial
sensitivity, you want to have that established relationship so you can open up the conversation
to talk about the opportunity.
They should have their own business track record, strong business and financial leadership,
and that they actually have capital.
You need capital to participate in business activities.
And so we went through the process and we identified a list, and we were so excited
that when we reached out to those shareholders, there was a little bit of education that was
required because an investment dealer itself is quite unique.
And once they saw the value where Sea to Leaf, Sea to Leaf itself is the first indigenous
majority-owned investment dealer, meaning that we have a focus on debt capital markets
at this time, in particular, trying to earn our way into syndicates of investment-grade
securities issued by corporations and governments in this country.
I see you've had some success already.
You've been in a couple of syndicates, at least, in your brief life as a company.
Yes, we have.
We have participated in three transactions right now.
One was a transaction with Scotiabank.
The other was the third largest pension fund in the world, being CPPIB, which is extremely
exciting.
And those were retention bonds.
And then also on the same day that transaction was happening, we also participated with the
government of Alberta being the first provincial government as well.
And so, Rob, we've had 150 meetings over a span of about four to five months where we've
been getting in front of issuers, so corporations and governments, as well as investors, institutional
leaders, to talk about cedar leaf, why it's important, the value that we can bring, and
frankly, the potential growth for the indigenous market as it pertains specifically to participation
in capital markets and their participation in medium to large scale projects.
So do you think the idea was pushed up from the states to take a look at?
And Canada is usually ahead on some of these items.
But now I think there's a bit of a snowball effect because I think there's a number of
firms looking at this opportunity.
And the profile of these issues, I think, is higher in Canada now.
Is that correct from your perception, Clint, or how do you see this developing?
So what I think is exciting is we certainly have shone a light on why it makes sense and
the natural progression for indigenous business is to look at capital markets as a way to
meet their own business and financial goals.
It's already been happening anyway.
You've seen the ownership position by the Heislah in the LNG terminal.
You've seen tons of activity with many indigenous communities on transmission lines in Alberta
and certainly in Ontario.
And those are medium to large scale projects, right?
And we are talking about equity positions.
And a number of different utility-based companies have already talked about the need to have.
And all of their projects moving forward will include indigenous equity.
In fact, in September, DVRS generated a report which talked about the growing participation
of indigenous people in capital markets, some of the tools that currently exist as it pertains
to loan guarantee programs and so on, and how they anticipate that this is only going
to grow as time goes on and certainly with a focus on infrastructure, natural resources,
critical minerals, and energy generation and transmission in this country.
And so we're a part of this new kind of indigenous participation along the financial services
spectrum, right?
I think it started with First Nations Bank.
Then you saw the First Nations Finance Authority, which Rob, I know you know exceptionally well.
Then you saw the creation of two really cool funds, such as Raven Venture Capital Funds,
for which I was on the investment committee, and then also the Indigenous Prosperity Fund.
And then now you have the opening up of Cedar Leaf Capital and the only investment dealer
in this country.
So there's still a lot of talk, and the two of you would know this, around how do we create
indigenous infrastructure funds to be able to provide that necessary capital to meet
the infrastructure goals of communities, which according to the Assembly of First Nations
is around $650 billion infrastructure gap, right?
So I think the attention of some of those transactions that we've done, there's still
a lot of work for us to do.
Our commitment to ensuring that we have indigenous young people who see capital markets as a
great opportunity and our focus on creating value for our shareholders.
I think it all culminates in something that's changing the conversation and the narrative
here in Canada.
Yes.
Really fascinating what's happening in Canada and it's sort of unique in the Indigenous
world outside of Canada.
What's happening in Canada is special.
And you're coming to our summit, our second annual Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit
in London in April.
Talk about Cedar Leaf and some of the other issues facing the Indigenous economy.
What do you hope to get out of the summit?
Well, first of all, I do want to commend you for your vision and your commitment and your
focus on putting this together.
I think when it comes to tapping into capital, tapping into investor interest, it doesn't
make sense for us to solely focus on a domestic market, but you need to look at investors
from across the world.
And so I think it's wonderful that you're doing that and I think as you said, Canada
is quite unique when it comes to Indigenous participation where it's now just probably
a normal course of business and that didn't exist 10 to 20 years ago.
And so what I'd like to see come out of this, to be quite honest with you, is to build some
relationships with investors, to be able to talk a lot about this growth of Indigenous
capital through economic activity, through the resolution of land claims and grievances,
and through other sort of revenue generation that communities are starting to have.
We think that there's in excess of about $50 billion that currently exists with a trajectory
of growth that's going to be significant.
And this capital represents new capital for investors to consider taking on and managing.
We have a bit of a line of sight there and so I think having that conversation with them
as well as talking about some of the activities that are happening where they could deploy
capital for investment is also really exciting.
And the one thing though, Rob, that clearly Cedar Leaf is across the country, but there
is one area that is also very close to my heart because I am from where I am, which
is the North.
And it's just to really consider opportunities around investment in the Arctic.
There's a lot of conversation that's happening right now.
In fact, the three premieres of the three territories in Canada are remaining in Washington,
DC today to have discussions around Arctic security.
There's a lot of attention on what a developed Arctic in Canada actually looks like.
And with the changing climate that we're seeing, there is that potential to open up a new passageway
through the Northwest Passage for shipping.
And so I think there's a tremendous amount of activity and it requires investors with
that long-term view and that commitment to build in a way that and support investment
in a way that's engaging with indigenous communities and ensuring that benefit actually resides
with those communities as well being impacted.
So Clint, when you were serving as CEO of the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business,
what was one of your proudest achievements or one of the things you felt was most important
to take place at that time?
So when I joined in 2007, I believe 2008, one of the things that I really thought was
quite interesting, particularly with other sort of advocacy organizations or business
councils or organizations of that sort, was the amount of and the volume of research that
they put together based upon a particular issue that we're focused on.
And so the one thing I noticed just based upon the work I was doing was there wasn't
any real credible research on what was happening with indigenous business and our contribution
to the economy at that time.
And so when you look at stories in the press, a lot of it was around the plight of indigenous
people, the social ills that exist, how we rank kind of the highest when it comes to
diseases, anywhere from suicide to health concerns, low levels of education and so on.
Those are all real.
Those are all significant.
But there was also another story that we wanted to kind of tell and hopefully influence the
narrative in that way.
And so we started focusing on the business activity of indigenous businesses.
And the one thing we wanted to do was really focus on the size of the indigenous market.
When I work with a large bank, you know, when people would ask me how big is this market,
and I would say it's big, and they'd ask me, well, how big?
And I'd say, I have no idea, but it's big.
And so it would have been nice to be able to point to a number.
And we worked with other experts who are economists and put together the size of the indigenous
economy.
And at the time, it was $24 billion a year when you take into account the spending power
of indigenous people, businesses, and the discretionary funding of indigenous governments.
And that was going to grow to $32 billion over the next five years.
And so what we wanted to demonstrate, because we heard messaging coming from Ottawa about,
you know, with the $18 billion that we, you know, put out to indigenous communities on
an annual basis with government funding, what are we getting back for that money?
And this was proof that indigenous people were net contributors to the economy at that
moment, which we are still now today.
So we're net contributors.
And so when we took that information and started going to various provinces, some of the indigenous
leaders were shocked the amount of influence they had on their respective provincial economies.
And it was quite significant.
And the wonderful thing that was coming from this was how CCIB has continued to do that
and to start really slicing and dicing.
And believe me, like once I left, we did a number of really great reports.
But wow, like JP Gladue and now Tabitha Bull have taken it to the next level, where they
are considered experts in the world on indigenous economic research.
And you've also seen the growth of other areas.
You know, the National Indigenous Economic Development Board is doing remarkable work
around that space.
Carol Anne Hilton is doing also remarkable work.
Some really great books have been written by her about the real opportunity that exists
and the potential that's happening with some of these businesses.
And so our participation right now in the economy is significant.
We are net contributors.
And just imagine as we continue to walk down this road with greater participation in some
of these projects that we're actually building in Canada, that we are going to be such significant
contributors to the economy.
We'll only grow the economy at the same time.
And so that's one of my most thrilling contributions to CCIB.
And I'm just so happy and so excited to see so many people who kind of take it and are
doing a way better job than I ever did.
That is exciting.
I think one of the other things that you talked about, we're speaking about the Arctic.
And Canadians always think of themselves as a northern nation.
But most of the population, as we all know, is down along the southern border.
And Scandinavia, they're northern nations, but it's a completely different experience.
But I think what's going to happen now with the focus on the Arctic and the indigenous
people actually have a seat at the table and a voice, this is the best time in the world
if the Arctic was ever going to be developed because the people who live there and know
how to grow that community and land for the benefit of all Canadians are actually driving
it, people such as yourself.
And that will give Canada a completely different perspective than if this had happened 50 years
ago.
Mark, I think you're absolutely right.
And I think that's an incredibly accurate observation of Canada's incredibly undeveloped
Arctic.
As Natan Obed, who's the president of the Inuit Department of Canutemi, which is the
national Inuit organization, to quote him, what he loves to say is that Canada isn't
built yet.
So Canada's landmass represents 25% of the global Arctic region, which is on top of the
world.
And that region also has its own economy, or you can measure its economy.
And that economy is anywhere from 200 to $300 billion USD a year.
We have 25% of the landmass, yet we contribute less than 2% to that global economy, or represent
less than 2%.
We also represent three territories represent less than 1% to Canada's GDP.
In light of what's happening now, from climate change to Arctic security to geopolitical
uncertainty to now political uncertainty, which exists on the continent, there are a
lot of eyes on the North.
And the people who are there are front and center, who really support our very proud
Canadians and want to see responsible development happening in the North, but done in a way
that's in the best interests of all Canadians and then having a positive impact and a sustaining
impact on people in the North.
That would include Inuit First Nations as well, the Dene people, as well as Métis,
and Northerners who have lived there for many, many decades.
Really the time is now to have that impact and to be able to make that investment and
to ensure that we are able to get a standard of living and we can actively assert our sovereignty
and establish that level of Arctic security and national security that needs to exist
within this country.
I think it starts with ensuring that you have ongoing patrolling and security that exists
on the shipping side.
We need to have more ports for refueling in the Arctic.
There's been a lot of talk about Nanocivic, which is a former military base and sort of
repurposing that for a fuel stop.
And that discussion has been going on for decades.
So it's time to get moving on that.
And we need to be able to demonstrate that these waters for the Northwest Passage are
Canadian waters.
And so I think this is just a tremendous opportunity for investors globally to be able to make
that contribution and to create a Canada where everyone benefits.
Great.
We could continue this conversation.
It's been really engaging.
This whole discussion about the Arctic, maybe we'll have a little section on it at the summit
to talk a bit about that.
Clint, thanks again for taking the time to speak with us.
Your grandparents, I'm sure, looking down, I'm very, very proud of all you've accomplished
and all that's to come.
But you represent your people, all Indigenous people and Canadians, generally very, very
well.
So thank you.
Thank you again, and the best of luck with Cedar Leaf Capital.
And look forward to seeing you in London in just a few weeks.
Thanks so much, Rob.
That means a lot coming from you.
You represent incredible intelligence, strong work ethic, someone who's connected to culture,
community, and really committed to doing something positive in this country.
So needless to say, the work that you want to do in this country, we're lucky to have
you to be able to bring all that experience and expertise to us.
I'm really excited about the opportunity to see the two of you in person and to meet other
participants at the summit.
I think a summit like this is a long time coming.
I think there's real tangible benefits that will come from it.
And I'm really honored to be a part of it.
So Nakumik, thank you very much.
Thank you, Niawen.
Thank you.
Thank you to Clint Davis for sharing his insights with us.
And thank you for viewing and listening.
Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel.
Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2025 summit taking place on the 10th of April.
Thanks for listening to Drum Beats.
Until next time.