1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,680 Welcome to Drum Beats, the must listen to podcast, which explains why Indigenous partnerships 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,720 are the key to securing successful outcomes in natural resource and infrastructure investment 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:11,720 in Canada. 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,520 I'm Mark McNach and my co-host Robert Branton are joined today by Clint Davis, the CEO of 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,160 Cedar Leaf Capital, Canada's first majority Indigenous owned investment dealer. 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,520 He's an Inuk from Labrador and a beneficiary under the Labrador Inuit Land Claim Agreement. 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,560 He continues to play a major role in opening doors for Indigenous people, businesses, and 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,240 communities in capital markets. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,480 He's been at the forefront of this effort, helping to create new financial opportunities 10 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:40,740 for the Indigenous nations. 11 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:45,520 Join us as we explore how these critical conversations are reshaping economic development across 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:46,520 Canada. 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,240 Clint Davis, CEO of Cedar Leaf Capital. 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,240 Thanks for joining us. 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,240 It's a real pleasure to be here. 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,240 Great to have you here. 17 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,240 Thank you for taking the time. 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:57,240 I'm excited. 19 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,880 This is going to be a great conversation, I think. 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,600 You've worn so many hats over the years. 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,200 There's a lot to get into and only a short amount of time. 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,120 But to start with, love to hear a bit about your personal story and your background, where 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,920 you grew up and how you ended up at Cedar Leaf. 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,880 So I'm Inuk from Labrador. 25 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:24,760 I was born and raised in Goose Bay, which was a town, little town that was built by 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:31,640 the Americans after World War II because of a strategic location in terms of national 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,240 and international security. 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,360 My mom was quite young when she had me, so I was raised by my grandparents. 29 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,480 My grandfather was a hunter and a fisherman and a trapper. 30 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:47,080 My grandmother raised nine kids, although she called me her tenth. 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:57,840 When I was young, they decided to go back to the Cartwright area to our fishing cabin. 32 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:03,120 That's where they would do inshore fishing for salmon, trout, et cetera. 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,840 It was funny because when I learned about cottages here in southern Ontario, people 34 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,840 complained about the drives. 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,760 When you get to their cottages, they have stainless steel appliances and people get 36 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,360 upset about the internet or you need to have at least two televisions. 37 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,880 So I would like to tell people when we went to our cabin, there was no running water, 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:30,920 no electricity, no roads, nothing, your footpaths and so on. 39 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:36,720 We would have to get on a ferry from Goose Bay and it was 24 hours to get to Cartwright, 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,320 which is a village of about 300 to 400 people, and then get in a speedboat, which is like 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:49,680 a fishing boat, to go another hour to get to our cabin where you were it and maybe a 42 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,320 couple of other families in the woods. 43 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,320 It was fishing. 44 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:55,320 There was no hunting. 45 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,440 It was primarily fishing and berry picking. 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,320 You were really one with nature. 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,920 At the time, we would have a lot of family there. 48 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:06,920 It was exciting. 49 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:07,920 It was fun. 50 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:12,760 As I got older, when you're 13, 14, it was hard work. 51 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,520 I had to cut wood, you had to collect wood, you had to go fishing, you had to check nets, 52 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:18,520 et cetera. 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,200 So I actually wanted to stay home in Goose Bay because I just wanted to hang with my 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,200 friends. 55 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:29,960 But as I got older, I realized what an opportunity that was and how blessed I was to have a hint 56 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:36,180 of what it was like to be exposed to culture and to be exposed to traditional activities 57 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:42,760 like fishing and to learn from my grandparents and from my aunts and uncles. 58 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,280 So it was quite incredible. 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,200 I was the first person in my extended family to get a degree. 60 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,680 Education was important to my grandmother. 61 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,360 She had grade 10, I believe, and my grandfather had grade six. 62 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,240 I was kind of good in school. 63 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,920 My grandmother wanted me to be independent. 64 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:04,600 She said, get a job, care for your family if you have a family, and don't live with 65 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:05,600 me when you're 40. 66 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,440 And so I decided that school seems good. 67 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,080 And I hooked into my cousin because he was sort of on that trajectory. 68 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,240 And as luck would have it, I ended up getting accepted to go to business school, from there 69 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,720 law school. 70 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:28,560 And after a period of time, I ended up going to Harvard, all because it was rather serendipitous. 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,240 You cross paths, Rob, and you know this with the right people at the right time. 72 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:39,760 I like to tell people that I'm probably an example that Harvard has a sense of humor. 73 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:46,160 So I had a buddy of mine who did the Kennedy School program, the Masters of Public Administration, 74 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,120 and said that this is something you should really consider. 75 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,000 And that's what I did. 76 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,520 It was life changing for me. 77 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,040 Beautiful, beautiful. 78 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,000 And did your grandparents, are they alive today? 79 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Did they live to see their boy attend Harvard? 80 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,080 My grandfather passed when I was actually in law school. 81 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:10,520 And my grandmother did live to see me graduate. 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,280 And she was there in Cambridge. 83 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:16,180 And it was just so exciting. 84 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:19,180 She was funny though. 85 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:22,480 She came to all my graduations, so business school, she was so excited. 86 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,540 Then I went to law school, she couldn't believe it. 87 00:05:25,540 --> 00:05:29,240 And then when I went to Harvard, she was like, well, you know, do you think you've been in 88 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,240 school long enough? 89 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,680 She was trying to be very pragmatic. 90 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,920 I was trying to figure out, you know, where's this guy going to land in terms of a job? 91 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,640 But listen, she was over the moon to have that experience. 92 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:47,120 And I was more than proud to share that with her. 93 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,360 The way you talk about it, it sounds like a lot of those values that were instilled 94 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:58,560 in you are still with you today and maybe govern how you operate at a senior executive 95 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,560 role. 96 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,240 Can you talk a little bit about some of those values and how they have influenced your professional 97 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:06,240 career? 98 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,320 Yeah, it's a great question. 99 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:14,080 And Rob, to be quite honest with you, it's just a couple of little bits of insight, right? 100 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,560 Which I'm sure you probably went through as well. 101 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:22,920 But when I went to business school, there was two big things that really stood out for 102 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:23,920 me. 103 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,040 One was I met so many people who didn't have any Indigenous ancestry. 104 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,320 And I was kind of shocked. 105 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,160 In Goose Bay, the representation of Indigenous people is like 25%, right? 106 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,960 So you had the First Nation people being the Innu were present. 107 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,040 It's their traditional territory. 108 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:45,120 And so many people who are Inuit and of Inuit ancestry, everyone kind of gravitated to Goose 109 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,120 Bay for work, right? 110 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,320 So came from the coast and went to work. 111 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:54,080 And so it was just so prevalent in our schools and with families and, you know, and so you 112 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,280 just kind of that was our normal, right? 113 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,240 We didn't sort of think of it as being different or unique. 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,320 So I couldn't believe how many people actually didn't have Indigenous ancestry, you know, 115 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,660 on my residence floor at Acadia University. 116 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:12,600 The other thing that was quite shocking, and you know, this is the stuff I think helps 117 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:19,320 drive my volumes, but was how many people were sort of set on the path to go to business 118 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,480 school and then go to law school. 119 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:27,000 And so I never sort of thought, well, I knew I would get a job. 120 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,720 I never thought in the early days that, you know, university was going to be a serious 121 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:32,720 consideration. 122 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,280 It was only until I got to come to high school that it became serious. 123 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:43,200 And it was just, it blew me away that so many kids had parents who, you know, this was their 124 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,560 path and that was kind of set it for them. 125 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,840 And so I just, you know, I admire that. 126 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,420 I was a bit shocking. 127 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:53,960 But it was kind of an eye-opening experience for me. 128 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,600 I think on the value side, in terms of my own personal experience and how that drives 129 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:07,360 me in the roles I've been a part of, I think a couple of things is one, you know, taking 130 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,880 time to stop and learn, right? 131 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:15,000 And to be excited about that opportunity around continuous learning. 132 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,160 And you know, when I was around my family and my grandparents and, you know, effectively 133 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,600 they were living off the land to a certain degree. 134 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,200 Obviously, I didn't know the answers and I didn't know what I was doing at the time. 135 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,920 So it was really trying to get that learning about how you do certain things when you're 136 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,940 in that type of environment. 137 00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:42,040 The other piece is, I think, you know, this recognition of the value of the land and, 138 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:48,160 you know, being very conscientious about the business that you do and any of its impact 139 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:49,840 kind of on the land. 140 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:57,720 And understanding how frankly synonymous the land is with, you know, Indigenous people 141 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,000 in this community, right? 142 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,760 And so I think those are some of the key values that sort of drive me in terms of my own leadership 143 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,920 and different executive roles that I've had. 144 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:15,740 And you've held some high-profile roles, very senior management roles in your career prior 145 00:09:15,740 --> 00:09:16,740 to Cedar Leaf. 146 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:20,200 Do you want to talk a little bit about some of those? 147 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,080 My career hasn't been linear, right? 148 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,560 It's been kind of really almost squiggly, I suppose. 149 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:28,920 And I wouldn't have changed it for the world. 150 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:34,640 I think it sort of helps to build me to where I am today. 151 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:41,400 So one was, I was a senior advisor to two different cabinet ministers at a time when 152 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:47,760 there was really a push for Indigenous, you know, sovereignty recognition, Indigenous 153 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,400 participation in projects. 154 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:55,800 One of the most exciting roles I've had was I was a Northern advisor to the Minister of 155 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,520 Indigenous and Northern Affairs. 156 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,400 And we were, you know, in the three territories and the territories at the time were really 157 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,360 doing a lot around, you know, that's when the diamond mines were coming on stream and 158 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,240 there was devolution that was being talked about. 159 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:17,240 There's a greater level of governance activities by the Northwest Territories and the resolution 160 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,480 of land claims in the Yukon. 161 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,480 And at the time in the late 90s Nunavut was just created as well. 162 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,560 So it was just a really exciting time in the North. 163 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,120 And I always thought that the North was a window into Indigenous reconciliation because 164 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:35,000 you had such, again, a very high percentage of Indigenous people who live and work in 165 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,360 the North. 166 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:41,320 And it was common knowledge that Indigenous people were becoming like the premiers and 167 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,000 cabinet ministers and so on, right? 168 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:50,240 So it was really that window into what I think is starting to materialize here in Canada. 169 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:56,920 I had the pleasure of being the CEO of the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business, 170 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,920 had a chance to really work with a great team and a great board to kind of build its profile 171 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,280 and to really, I think, influence the narrative on the importance of Indigenous business to 172 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,280 this economy. 173 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,760 That's a great organization. 174 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,280 I had my first summer job there about 40 years ago. 175 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,240 There were two people. 176 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,240 Yeah, it has longevity, right? 177 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,560 It really was ahead of its time. 178 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:28,480 And you know, it took the vision of a couple of key Indigenous, or sorry, Indigenous and 179 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,360 non-Indigenous leaders, corporate leaders, to say that something has to happen because 180 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:41,440 we cannot have such a significant important part of the population of Canada being completely 181 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,960 disenfranchised for participating in the economy. 182 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:50,480 And so it was such a beautiful organization in terms of its mandate, its purpose of being. 183 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:56,800 And yeah, the honor of being the CEO there was quite something. 184 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:05,680 And today, Cedar Leaf, an exciting new organization with some high profile shareholders. 185 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,200 What is Cedar Leaf and where's the genesis for that? 186 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,880 Rob, it's a great story. 187 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:15,200 It actually started about two, two and a half years ago. 188 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,660 And it was a pull from the market. 189 00:12:17,660 --> 00:12:26,460 So it wasn't, you know, coming from the Indigenous business leadership at the time or from one 190 00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:29,000 of the major financial institutions or anything of that nature. 191 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,080 But it was a major resource company in Canada. 192 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,680 And they were issuing securities bonds in the United States. 193 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:48,560 And in the US, you actually have a really quite a decent growing robust ecosystem of 194 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:50,700 investment dealers that have unique ownership. 195 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:59,280 And so that ownership represents minorities from African-American, Latino-American, and 196 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,280 tribal as well as women, veterans, people with disabilities. 197 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:10,400 And so these are investment dealers that bring a unique perspective to syndicates as well 198 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,760 as opening up new avenues for investors. 199 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:23,580 And so many of the companies that are Canadian companies that actually issue in the United States have used these minority dealers. 200 00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:27,960 And so this resource company asked the question as to whether or not anything like that existed 201 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,640 in Canada. 202 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,480 And if so, if it was Indigenous, that they would give serious consideration to working 203 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,380 with that company. 204 00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:39,260 And so that was expressed to Scotiabank. 205 00:13:39,260 --> 00:13:45,480 And so Scotiabank did some research, realized very quickly that, in fact, there wasn't any 206 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,400 type of dealer that had that unique ownership. 207 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:53,400 And they thought to themselves that what we should be looking at is in alignment with 208 00:13:53,400 --> 00:14:00,720 reconciliation, that we should stand one up so that we can provide it with the necessary 209 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:07,000 footing, foundation, and so that ultimately you'd have a 100% Indigenous-owned and controlled 210 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,960 investment dealer. 211 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:15,760 So I came on board and was asked to assist in this particular endeavor. 212 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,360 They had made a number of really great strides. 213 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,920 And so I came in to do two things. 214 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:27,840 One was to assist with the application process and to help run it through their internal 215 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,800 approvals and then ultimately get it to the regulator, but also to identify the right 216 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,720 Indigenous partners. 217 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:41,240 And so as you know, what you want to do for a company like this is to, because it's new, 218 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:47,320 because it's a unique type of industry, what you want to do is you want to have the right 219 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:53,600 partners and have a small number of partners initially, and potentially there's the opportunity 220 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,040 to expand. 221 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:01,040 And so one of the things, because of the commercial sensitivity to this, everything was done under 222 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,560 the guise of an NDA. 223 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:09,160 And the advice I gave, and that was the path we actually took, was to say, look, the partnership 224 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,720 be community-based partners, so there'd be no question whatsoever regarding indigeneity, 225 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:14,840 et cetera. 226 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:20,120 Those community partners should have a relationship with Scotiabank because, again, the commercial 227 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,840 sensitivity, you want to have that established relationship so you can open up the conversation 228 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,200 to talk about the opportunity. 229 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:33,480 They should have their own business track record, strong business and financial leadership, 230 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,280 and that they actually have capital. 231 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,920 You need capital to participate in business activities. 232 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:47,320 And so we went through the process and we identified a list, and we were so excited 233 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,840 that when we reached out to those shareholders, there was a little bit of education that was 234 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,640 required because an investment dealer itself is quite unique. 235 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:04,480 And once they saw the value where Sea to Leaf, Sea to Leaf itself is the first indigenous 236 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,880 majority-owned investment dealer, meaning that we have a focus on debt capital markets 237 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:16,680 at this time, in particular, trying to earn our way into syndicates of investment-grade 238 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,680 securities issued by corporations and governments in this country. 239 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,480 I see you've had some success already. 240 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,200 You've been in a couple of syndicates, at least, in your brief life as a company. 241 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,040 Yes, we have. 242 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,640 We have participated in three transactions right now. 243 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,560 One was a transaction with Scotiabank. 244 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:45,400 The other was the third largest pension fund in the world, being CPPIB, which is extremely 245 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,400 exciting. 246 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,200 And those were retention bonds. 247 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,920 And then also on the same day that transaction was happening, we also participated with the 248 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,800 government of Alberta being the first provincial government as well. 249 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:07,440 And so, Rob, we've had 150 meetings over a span of about four to five months where we've 250 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:15,280 been getting in front of issuers, so corporations and governments, as well as investors, institutional 251 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:21,600 leaders, to talk about cedar leaf, why it's important, the value that we can bring, and 252 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:27,840 frankly, the potential growth for the indigenous market as it pertains specifically to participation 253 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,480 in capital markets and their participation in medium to large scale projects. 254 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,120 So do you think the idea was pushed up from the states to take a look at? 255 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,860 And Canada is usually ahead on some of these items. 256 00:17:40,860 --> 00:17:45,400 But now I think there's a bit of a snowball effect because I think there's a number of 257 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,080 firms looking at this opportunity. 258 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,840 And the profile of these issues, I think, is higher in Canada now. 259 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,520 Is that correct from your perception, Clint, or how do you see this developing? 260 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:07,120 So what I think is exciting is we certainly have shone a light on why it makes sense and 261 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:13,680 the natural progression for indigenous business is to look at capital markets as a way to 262 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,320 meet their own business and financial goals. 263 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,400 It's already been happening anyway. 264 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,720 You've seen the ownership position by the Heislah in the LNG terminal. 265 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:32,480 You've seen tons of activity with many indigenous communities on transmission lines in Alberta 266 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,800 and certainly in Ontario. 267 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,000 And those are medium to large scale projects, right? 268 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,200 And we are talking about equity positions. 269 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:47,000 And a number of different utility-based companies have already talked about the need to have. 270 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,280 And all of their projects moving forward will include indigenous equity. 271 00:18:50,280 --> 00:19:01,800 In fact, in September, DVRS generated a report which talked about the growing participation 272 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:07,240 of indigenous people in capital markets, some of the tools that currently exist as it pertains 273 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,540 to loan guarantee programs and so on, and how they anticipate that this is only going 274 00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:18,800 to grow as time goes on and certainly with a focus on infrastructure, natural resources, 275 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,760 critical minerals, and energy generation and transmission in this country. 276 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:32,280 And so we're a part of this new kind of indigenous participation along the financial services 277 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,280 spectrum, right? 278 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,680 I think it started with First Nations Bank. 279 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,520 Then you saw the First Nations Finance Authority, which Rob, I know you know exceptionally well. 280 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,200 Then you saw the creation of two really cool funds, such as Raven Venture Capital Funds, 281 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,840 for which I was on the investment committee, and then also the Indigenous Prosperity Fund. 282 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:58,160 And then now you have the opening up of Cedar Leaf Capital and the only investment dealer 283 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,160 in this country. 284 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:05,720 So there's still a lot of talk, and the two of you would know this, around how do we create 285 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,040 indigenous infrastructure funds to be able to provide that necessary capital to meet 286 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,080 the infrastructure goals of communities, which according to the Assembly of First Nations 287 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,680 is around $650 billion infrastructure gap, right? 288 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,880 So I think the attention of some of those transactions that we've done, there's still 289 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,760 a lot of work for us to do. 290 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:31,720 Our commitment to ensuring that we have indigenous young people who see capital markets as a 291 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,920 great opportunity and our focus on creating value for our shareholders. 292 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,040 I think it all culminates in something that's changing the conversation and the narrative 293 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,680 here in Canada. 294 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,000 Yes. 295 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,680 Really fascinating what's happening in Canada and it's sort of unique in the Indigenous 296 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,760 world outside of Canada. 297 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,680 What's happening in Canada is special. 298 00:20:54,680 --> 00:21:01,320 And you're coming to our summit, our second annual Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit 299 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,600 in London in April. 300 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:11,400 Talk about Cedar Leaf and some of the other issues facing the Indigenous economy. 301 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,560 What do you hope to get out of the summit? 302 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:20,920 Well, first of all, I do want to commend you for your vision and your commitment and your 303 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,480 focus on putting this together. 304 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:32,200 I think when it comes to tapping into capital, tapping into investor interest, it doesn't 305 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:38,160 make sense for us to solely focus on a domestic market, but you need to look at investors 306 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,240 from across the world. 307 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:45,520 And so I think it's wonderful that you're doing that and I think as you said, Canada 308 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,080 is quite unique when it comes to Indigenous participation where it's now just probably 309 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,600 a normal course of business and that didn't exist 10 to 20 years ago. 310 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:02,780 And so what I'd like to see come out of this, to be quite honest with you, is to build some 311 00:22:02,780 --> 00:22:10,120 relationships with investors, to be able to talk a lot about this growth of Indigenous 312 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:19,960 capital through economic activity, through the resolution of land claims and grievances, 313 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,720 and through other sort of revenue generation that communities are starting to have. 314 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:31,640 We think that there's in excess of about $50 billion that currently exists with a trajectory 315 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,180 of growth that's going to be significant. 316 00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:41,680 And this capital represents new capital for investors to consider taking on and managing. 317 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,840 We have a bit of a line of sight there and so I think having that conversation with them 318 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,200 as well as talking about some of the activities that are happening where they could deploy 319 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,040 capital for investment is also really exciting. 320 00:22:53,040 --> 00:23:01,540 And the one thing though, Rob, that clearly Cedar Leaf is across the country, but there 321 00:23:01,540 --> 00:23:08,600 is one area that is also very close to my heart because I am from where I am, which 322 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,600 is the North. 323 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:15,880 And it's just to really consider opportunities around investment in the Arctic. 324 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,640 There's a lot of conversation that's happening right now. 325 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:25,240 In fact, the three premieres of the three territories in Canada are remaining in Washington, 326 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,940 DC today to have discussions around Arctic security. 327 00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:36,760 There's a lot of attention on what a developed Arctic in Canada actually looks like. 328 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:43,280 And with the changing climate that we're seeing, there is that potential to open up a new passageway 329 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,080 through the Northwest Passage for shipping. 330 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,440 And so I think there's a tremendous amount of activity and it requires investors with 331 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:58,880 that long-term view and that commitment to build in a way that and support investment 332 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:06,840 in a way that's engaging with indigenous communities and ensuring that benefit actually resides 333 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,960 with those communities as well being impacted. 334 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,960 So Clint, when you were serving as CEO of the Canadian Council for Indigenous Business, 335 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,440 what was one of your proudest achievements or one of the things you felt was most important 336 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,400 to take place at that time? 337 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:33,400 So when I joined in 2007, I believe 2008, one of the things that I really thought was 338 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,640 quite interesting, particularly with other sort of advocacy organizations or business 339 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:46,280 councils or organizations of that sort, was the amount of and the volume of research that 340 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,760 they put together based upon a particular issue that we're focused on. 341 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,240 And so the one thing I noticed just based upon the work I was doing was there wasn't 342 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:03,640 any real credible research on what was happening with indigenous business and our contribution 343 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,260 to the economy at that time. 344 00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:11,360 And so when you look at stories in the press, a lot of it was around the plight of indigenous 345 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:18,400 people, the social ills that exist, how we rank kind of the highest when it comes to 346 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,520 diseases, anywhere from suicide to health concerns, low levels of education and so on. 347 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,800 Those are all real. 348 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,400 Those are all significant. 349 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,720 But there was also another story that we wanted to kind of tell and hopefully influence the 350 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,800 narrative in that way. 351 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,200 And so we started focusing on the business activity of indigenous businesses. 352 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,960 And the one thing we wanted to do was really focus on the size of the indigenous market. 353 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,960 When I work with a large bank, you know, when people would ask me how big is this market, 354 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,440 and I would say it's big, and they'd ask me, well, how big? 355 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,040 And I'd say, I have no idea, but it's big. 356 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,320 And so it would have been nice to be able to point to a number. 357 00:25:53,320 --> 00:26:02,240 And we worked with other experts who are economists and put together the size of the indigenous 358 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,240 economy. 359 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:09,900 And at the time, it was $24 billion a year when you take into account the spending power 360 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:15,760 of indigenous people, businesses, and the discretionary funding of indigenous governments. 361 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,840 And that was going to grow to $32 billion over the next five years. 362 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,920 And so what we wanted to demonstrate, because we heard messaging coming from Ottawa about, 363 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,800 you know, with the $18 billion that we, you know, put out to indigenous communities on 364 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,200 an annual basis with government funding, what are we getting back for that money? 365 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,800 And this was proof that indigenous people were net contributors to the economy at that 366 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,480 moment, which we are still now today. 367 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,240 So we're net contributors. 368 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,160 And so when we took that information and started going to various provinces, some of the indigenous 369 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,800 leaders were shocked the amount of influence they had on their respective provincial economies. 370 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,560 And it was quite significant. 371 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:08,160 And the wonderful thing that was coming from this was how CCIB has continued to do that 372 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,520 and to start really slicing and dicing. 373 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,840 And believe me, like once I left, we did a number of really great reports. 374 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,860 But wow, like JP Gladue and now Tabitha Bull have taken it to the next level, where they 375 00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:25,920 are considered experts in the world on indigenous economic research. 376 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,040 And you've also seen the growth of other areas. 377 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,960 You know, the National Indigenous Economic Development Board is doing remarkable work 378 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,640 around that space. 379 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,040 Carol Anne Hilton is doing also remarkable work. 380 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,520 Some really great books have been written by her about the real opportunity that exists 381 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,000 and the potential that's happening with some of these businesses. 382 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,920 And so our participation right now in the economy is significant. 383 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,000 We are net contributors. 384 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,720 And just imagine as we continue to walk down this road with greater participation in some 385 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,640 of these projects that we're actually building in Canada, that we are going to be such significant 386 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:03,960 contributors to the economy. 387 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,360 We'll only grow the economy at the same time. 388 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:15,080 And so that's one of my most thrilling contributions to CCIB. 389 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,920 And I'm just so happy and so excited to see so many people who kind of take it and are 390 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,800 doing a way better job than I ever did. 391 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,800 That is exciting. 392 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,440 I think one of the other things that you talked about, we're speaking about the Arctic. 393 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,720 And Canadians always think of themselves as a northern nation. 394 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:39,600 But most of the population, as we all know, is down along the southern border. 395 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,440 And Scandinavia, they're northern nations, but it's a completely different experience. 396 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,320 But I think what's going to happen now with the focus on the Arctic and the indigenous 397 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:56,040 people actually have a seat at the table and a voice, this is the best time in the world 398 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,500 if the Arctic was ever going to be developed because the people who live there and know 399 00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:07,840 how to grow that community and land for the benefit of all Canadians are actually driving 400 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,980 it, people such as yourself. 401 00:29:09,980 --> 00:29:14,120 And that will give Canada a completely different perspective than if this had happened 50 years 402 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,120 ago. 403 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,480 Mark, I think you're absolutely right. 404 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:23,880 And I think that's an incredibly accurate observation of Canada's incredibly undeveloped 405 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,680 Arctic. 406 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,760 As Natan Obed, who's the president of the Inuit Department of Canutemi, which is the 407 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,480 national Inuit organization, to quote him, what he loves to say is that Canada isn't 408 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,480 built yet. 409 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,800 So Canada's landmass represents 25% of the global Arctic region, which is on top of the 410 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,360 world. 411 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,160 And that region also has its own economy, or you can measure its economy. 412 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,280 And that economy is anywhere from 200 to $300 billion USD a year. 413 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,600 We have 25% of the landmass, yet we contribute less than 2% to that global economy, or represent 414 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,440 less than 2%. 415 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:11,880 We also represent three territories represent less than 1% to Canada's GDP. 416 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:18,360 In light of what's happening now, from climate change to Arctic security to geopolitical 417 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:25,640 uncertainty to now political uncertainty, which exists on the continent, there are a 418 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,160 lot of eyes on the North. 419 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:37,600 And the people who are there are front and center, who really support our very proud 420 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,280 Canadians and want to see responsible development happening in the North, but done in a way 421 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:51,420 that's in the best interests of all Canadians and then having a positive impact and a sustaining 422 00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:53,280 impact on people in the North. 423 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,480 That would include Inuit First Nations as well, the Dene people, as well as Métis, 424 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,720 and Northerners who have lived there for many, many decades. 425 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:10,880 Really the time is now to have that impact and to be able to make that investment and 426 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:20,800 to ensure that we are able to get a standard of living and we can actively assert our sovereignty 427 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:27,080 and establish that level of Arctic security and national security that needs to exist 428 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,080 within this country. 429 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:37,960 I think it starts with ensuring that you have ongoing patrolling and security that exists 430 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,640 on the shipping side. 431 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,480 We need to have more ports for refueling in the Arctic. 432 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,240 There's been a lot of talk about Nanocivic, which is a former military base and sort of 433 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,760 repurposing that for a fuel stop. 434 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,700 And that discussion has been going on for decades. 435 00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,440 So it's time to get moving on that. 436 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,400 And we need to be able to demonstrate that these waters for the Northwest Passage are 437 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,000 Canadian waters. 438 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:14,040 And so I think this is just a tremendous opportunity for investors globally to be able to make 439 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:20,080 that contribution and to create a Canada where everyone benefits. 440 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,240 Great. 441 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160 We could continue this conversation. 442 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,880 It's been really engaging. 443 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,320 This whole discussion about the Arctic, maybe we'll have a little section on it at the summit 444 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,120 to talk a bit about that. 445 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,840 Clint, thanks again for taking the time to speak with us. 446 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,320 Your grandparents, I'm sure, looking down, I'm very, very proud of all you've accomplished 447 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,320 and all that's to come. 448 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,760 But you represent your people, all Indigenous people and Canadians, generally very, very 449 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:52,760 well. 450 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,760 So thank you. 451 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,840 Thank you again, and the best of luck with Cedar Leaf Capital. 452 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,800 And look forward to seeing you in London in just a few weeks. 453 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:03,840 Thanks so much, Rob. 454 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,800 That means a lot coming from you. 455 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:14,080 You represent incredible intelligence, strong work ethic, someone who's connected to culture, 456 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,280 community, and really committed to doing something positive in this country. 457 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,920 So needless to say, the work that you want to do in this country, we're lucky to have 458 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,760 you to be able to bring all that experience and expertise to us. 459 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:33,060 I'm really excited about the opportunity to see the two of you in person and to meet other 460 00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:35,040 participants at the summit. 461 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,560 I think a summit like this is a long time coming. 462 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,480 I think there's real tangible benefits that will come from it. 463 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,440 And I'm really honored to be a part of it. 464 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,480 So Nakumik, thank you very much. 465 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,440 Thank you, Niawen. 466 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,800 Thank you. 467 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,500 Thank you to Clint Davis for sharing his insights with us. 468 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:55,600 And thank you for viewing and listening. 469 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,840 Be sure to share, subscribe, and leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. 470 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:05,120 Mark your calendars for the upcoming 2025 summit taking place on the 10th of April. 471 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,720 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. 472 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:26,400 Until next time.